With most of my shooting experience being with tactical firearms, I have always appreciated a nice forearm which lets me get a strong and firm grip with my foreward hand.

Now that I am venturing into the world of doubles, I find that most of the nice vintage doubles have these itsy bitsy forearms which are the opposite of what feels comfortable to me.

Could someone please explain the rationale behind splinters?

Thank you

Lou

You point the gun, not aim it. No need to grip it hard. I use my index finger to point at what I am shooting along the barrel line. When shooting it rests in my hand with a very light grip. The gun needs to flow through the swing and gripping hard will counter against this.

If you want to carry a fat, heavy, ugly forearm on your shotgun, then there are full beavertails for you. But I'd rather have a sleek, light,attractive gun that points well. After all, I'm not planning on clubbing anyone to death with it.

Brent

Think ..rest....not ..grip.

Grip the barrels, not the forearm. This theoretically gets the hand in a better plane with the barrels for the shot. Winchester 21s have beavertails and most other doubles can be purchased that way as an option. I prefer a beavertail on my 28 ga guns since the barrels are a lot smaller and so there's less to grip, as well as fingers can overlap getting in the way of seeing. I'd shoot both splinter and beavertail before I made a decision.
Joe

Is it thought that shooting through the forward hand instead of over it makes pointing more intuitive?

What do people do to protect the barrel from salty palms?

Yes.

Gloves.

leather barell sleeve

Break free or any other oil. A quick wipe when you are done for the day. (pun not intended)

Tactical,eh? My wife gave me a tactical/camo shirt for Christmas. I hung it in the closet and still can't find it.

The splinter forend makes it possible to get the lead hand closer to the barrel centerlines, which early shooters saw as an advantage to directing the shot, I suppose. (Anyone have access to what Greener or Burrard might have said about splinter forends?) Certainly, minimal forend dimensions go way back before wingshooting started. The splinter style of forend is not intended to be grasped. Rather, the barrels are grasped and the splinter forend fills the palm of the lead hand without interfering with the barrel hold. That a forend was needed at all was a consequence of gun design -- early guns (muzzle loaders) needed a forward attach point for the stock, and break action guns need a forend piece to complete the hinge. Anyway, holding the barrels directly is an unusual idea to shooters new to guns having splinter forends. It is quite comfortable and natural once you get used to it.

A shooter can point his index finger forward on any forend if he wants. Watch skeet shooters and their big weapons nowadays. So I think this is not the answer. Pointing the index finger forward certainly is not necessary to good shooting, either. Lead hand fingerpointing does occur more naturally to some when using the splinter forend, though it is a consequence to the splinter forend, not a reason for it.

Never would have occured to me to grasp the barrels unless I was told to!

If I wear a golf glove can I get 25 or 50 rounds off at the trap line without burning my hand?

How about a barrel guard

Lou

A fine English style side by side shotgun should be an extension of your body - point a finger at a bird and go bang. When you point at something you do so with a straightish arm

The splinter forend is not meant to be held - it's simply there to smooth out the end of the action.

On a side by side you should be holding the barrels so that your fore arm is nearly straight when gun is pointing at the object - say a driven phaesant. Forefinger should be pointing along the barrels.

Your trigger hand should not be aiming, rather all it does is to lift the butt to the shoulder and squeeze the trigger. A side by side should be shot and is designed to be shot from gun down position.

A side by side barrel does get hot after a number of quick shots - a side effect of being in a hotspot!! You cn get sleeves that go on the barrels to protect your hand if this is really a problem.

With a rifle, trap gunor clay pigeon gun which is aimed rather than pointed the trigger hand has much more control of the aiming function - hence chunky pistol grips.

Lou,

Depends on the outside temperature. If it is 90 out the barrels are going to cool down as much between shots but the golf glove should work fine for the amount of time you'll be grasping the barrels.

Phil

Just don't grab the barrels at the holes where the bullets come out.

Bushmaster,
Understand that the splinter forend is an anachronism left over from the very early years of double gun design, and has a hallowed following among traditionalists. They are joined at the hip with the straight grip crowd.

I've been through the stage of looking askance at any style other than the splinter/straight grip, but once I found out how much better I shot with a shallow, semi-beavertail/pistol grip gun like a Win. 21, I forgot about splinter forends and straight grips. They are slim, trim and sexy, and I can appreciate them, but I much prefer the btfe/pg for good shooting on my part. All of my shooting is high volume, either doves or Sporting Clays, and the barrels get very hot at times. Gloves are ok, barrel guards are an abomination. A semi-beavertail, as in those on the RBL and the Parker Reproductions, are vastly superior for protection and control. Beautiful too.
JR

Bush guy,
This is from your classified ad.

" I am sure you already know beavertail forends in those models of guns do not show up often.

That is why barrel guards where invented."

http://www.classicusc.com/Galco_Barrel_Guard_p/sl1012cn.htm

Get a club.

Given the fit of a shotgun must match the person shooting, if there were not a variety of grips someone would invent them.

It is the same with straight hand, pistol grips and POW stocks.

This also include double triggers, single triggers and release triggers and etc.

Each of these have a precieved advantage to those who invented them.

The Brits, I think, would tell you that the purpose of the forend is to hold the barrels to the action.

If you're shooting a standard 5 man trap squad, chances are a light glove will do fine with a splinter forend. If you happen to be shooting a "short" squad, you may need either a padded glove (like by Gripswell--I've shot flurries with theirs without any problems) or a handguard on the barrels. Personally, I've never used a handguard. Some say it can hurt the bluing. But I always wear a glove on my leading hand whether shooting targets or hunting, to keep sweat off the barrels to the greatest extent possible.

"Understand that the splinter forend is an anachronism left over from the very early years of double gun design, and has a hallowed following among traditionalists. They are joined at the hip with the straight grip crowd."

In fact, double guns with two trigger are THE anachronism. Far easier to kill a limit with the latest gas operated auto, screw in chokes, three shots, reduced recoil, etc.... We choose to make it harder to make it a challenge. So the splinter is just part of the package of the challenge.

Doubles were not designed to shoot vast numbers of shell ,in a short period of time. We shoot them to relax and need a gun to reflect our relaxed game. A splinter is used just to slow us down more on hot days.

I disagree with this statement. It is NO easier to kill a limit of doves, ducks or quail with a three shot gun than it is with a two shot gun. Our limits are so small as to make these variables (screw in chokes, three shots and reduced recoil) meaningless in that context. Market hunters went to the higher capacity pumps and semi-autos because they had no limits and needed to kill as many as fast as they could. Anybody bothered by the recoil generated to kill one limit needs to cowboy up, or give it up.

I say chaps, not one of you as pointed out that the rationale behind a splinter forend is to reduce the weight forward of the hingepin.We 19th century Brits were obsessed with the weight of our guns. I was talking to Bill Greener the other day and he was saying that those London chappies couldn't build a decent gun. He said he'd heard Bob Churchill was considering cutting some barrels down to 25 inches. Blithering fool if you ask me ! Wot!
Chin chin, toodle pip.

This is a question that surfaces on this board every so often. I remember the first time I gave my opinion on splinter foreends several years ago. I believe I said something like this...... They are popular in Britain and probably work and look good on their guns. That's the place where they raise their little pinky high in the air when they sip their tea and wear blouses for shirts. But this is America. We like gorgeous wood with lots of checkering and as much wood as we can get on a gun. Who wants to burn the crap out of your hands after shooting several rounds of trap and have to be forced to wear a glove? Or better yet, did you ever see the guy who buys a skimpy little splinter forearm, and then buys one of those clunky leather covers that goes around it? What's with that? And is there anything more aggravating, than oiling up your gun and not being able to handle it to get it into your gun safe without taking the chance of it slipping out of your hand or having to grab the barrels that you just oiled because there is nothing else to grab ahold of? This is America. If you want a whippy handling and sissy looking gun that looks like it was made for a woman, then get one with a splinter foreend. But, if you want people to know that you are a man and that you shoot a man's gun and that you don't squat when you pee, get one with a beavertail forearm.......Hmmmmm. After handling and shooting so many of both of them over the years, experience has taught me I was right back then and I still feel the same way.

Salopian, LOL, best, Mike (loves splinter fore ends but admits to using a handguard if shooting hia AYA 20 at trap with ambient temp 35 deg C pr about 100 deg F !)

Us Brits got round the very simple problem of rapid firing by using a pair or even a triple of matched guns. The rate of fire that can be sustained by a gun with a good loader has to be seen to be believed.

We do over here have a good number of big driven shoots where the bag is 300 or 400 birds a day between a team of 8 to ten guns. The emphasis thugh is on quality of birds rather than quantity - a really good shot is probably hitting 1 in 2 1/2 or 1 in 3.

I once stood next to a chap who was shooting a pair of purdies on such a shoot - on one drive he had ten right and lefts in a row - and the birds were all fast phaesants 30 to 40 yds up.

Over and unders (especially in 20 bore)are becoming the standard choice now on game shoots. Most people find them easier to use than a a traditional side by side. I use a 50 year old double tiggered AYA Coral - which I am told were actually re badged Merkels, as Merkel were at that point behind the iron curtain.

Where side by sides are still popular is walked up shooting where weight is an issue - I now use a 410 by W J Jeffery - a very old gun but it only weighs 4 1/2 lbs - and quite happily shoot phaesants with it out to 30 yds - its tight pattern kills or misses completely. Also here in scoltand at most shoots will have a good collection of old sides by sides - Dicksons etc - mostly handed down through the family - a friends father still uses his grandfathers pair of Holland and Hollands - they must have fired hundreds of thousands of cartridges - the checkering is completely worn away, indeed the wood under the checkering is worn away, barrels are not blue but silver where the fore hand grips the barrels. But apart from the occasional service they have been used several times a month since they came out of Holland & Holland over 100 years ago.

"Over and unders (especially in 20 bore)are becoming the standard choice now on game shoots."

My choice now, mostly because of age,for hunting. I don't feel handicapped in the field or the blind.

For geese last January: TM three-inch, 1 1/8 ounce No. 3s.

Saying that 28 bores are also becoming quite the thing to have.

28s are what all my serious woodcock and grouse hunter friends are using with dogs now. No one carries a 12, walking for miles.

Jimmy W you are a heathen old chap! Shooting trap! My goodness you'll have me shooting skeet next, dreadful sport.
No I'll stick to my grouse moor with my trio of Woodwards ( far more chic than those common Purdeys old chap, Wot) I may venture down to Badmington, Rye House or Hurlingham for a spot of pigeon shooting, 'bout time someone smacked that Bogardus chappies bottom, damned foreigners, they will be taking the Empire back before we know it. Orf now for a chukka of Polo, Wot.

Have been carrying various SxS's now for 55 years, most all with "Skinny" forends, though have had a few of those abominations which looked like they were abandoned & a tree grew up around them , so they cut it down & called it a "Beavertail".

I can assure you my 10lb 10ga Lefever with its skinny forend fits absolutely "NONE" of that criteria.
In all of those 55 years of carrying those slim forends I never felt "Girlish" Nor like a "Sissy" & a forend in & of itself makes a gun neither "Whippy" or otherwise.
Jimmy, those statements are nothing but Pure Unadulerated "Ignorance".
Forends are purely a matter of personal choice, many of us simply do not prefer a pile of wood out there that turns an otherwise beautiful gun into something that looks like a Preagnant Sow.
As to speed of firing the real heyday of the pumps & autos was when they could legally be used with 5-6 shells. A double can be reloaded far quicker than either, their advantage comes when a series of shots can be fired quickly without the need to reload. Few of us are faced with that situation today.You can fire three shots quicker with tham, but Four or more faster with a double if you have pre-planed so you don't have to fumble for shells.

Bushmaster, the rationale behind the splinter fore-end is to cover the fore-end iron. It does this quite well. The design of the fore-end was left to the gunmakers,who,though great in talent and ability were in it for the money. What was quickest, easiest and made them the most profit was the most desireable design. It was accepted by the shooting public and that was that.
Justin

Interestingly enough, most of the American classic sxs also came with "skinny" forends. The Brits didn't corner the market on the practice.

I like 28's, but way too many of them weigh way too much. (Too many way/weighs in that sentence??) Saw a very attractive Guerini Woodlander 28 the other day, 28" barrels. Happened to have my postal scale along, checked it out: over 6/6. I have a Lindner Daly Featherweight 12 that weighs just a bit over 5 3/4 (with 26" barrels). My AyA 4/53 28ga, with 27" barrels, beats that in the light weight department . . . by 4 ounces.

Wow!! Imagine carrying a gun with a splinter foreend and wearing off all of the blue around the barrels and having your hands sweaty, slipping all over the barrels for the same amount of weight that would equal the amount of the McDonald's big breakfast you put into your stomach on the way to the field that morning! Or, not being able to get a good grip on the barrels for the same amount of weight that would equal a dove or a quail! My goodness, what do you do when you have to carry a pheasant around with you for several hours? Oh, that's right. You have someone (probably the same guy who loads your gun for you) run it back to the house in their four wheeler to keep you from having stroke out in the field from carrying all that dreadful weight. Yes, yes! The women around here have the same problem. But the men love to show off their SXS guns with all of that gorgeous feather crotch wood with the fancy checkering on their guns around here. And none of them have to feel that they are shooting a women's gun.

Interesting. I always enjoy reverse snobbery or, as some might point out, hillbilly sensibilities.

Great thread

Hey Jimmy,What are you talking about? Justin

Jimmy

I must respond to your rant. I have had three of those sissy guns made for me in Spain w 16" stocks. Although I shoot a K-80 for skeet(usually) I am a reasonably confident individual.

Please do not take this as condescending or correcting as I totally understand your views. As a Texan I believe that all people from Ohio are bed wetting sissies

The pre-war, 1931 Sauer 16 26" I just picked up has almost as skinny forend as they come and weighs 5lb 11oz. A Garbi 1966 boxlock 12ga, 27 7/8" tubes, POW, semi-beavertail that I have weighs 5lb 14oz. Wouldn't have much trouble with those in the woods.

I do prefer a close hugging semi bt. even with my English heritage.

I shot a sporterized '03 in a CMP clinic once. I could have use a potholder for rapid fire! Takes about as long to get used to a splinter forend as it does to get used to double triggers. Few squads of that "dirt-shootin" abomination of a game called skeet and you've got it. Why is everybody so damned doctinaire about this? Be like Don Zutz. Grab a handful of barrels! You too, Lou.

jack

Jimmy, I'll bet they sell golf gloves in Ohio. (Better hillbilly solution than a real shooting glove. I know, because I use them and live in Iowa--which some snobs in the East confuse with Ohio.) The one on your leading hand, if the gun has a splinter, will protect the bluing, keep from burning your pinkies (unless you're doing something REAL rapid-fire), and prevent slippage.

Always glad to help out a resident of a state that can't decide whether it's in the Midwest or the East. Personally, I think of Ohio as America's Middle East.

IMO, there is no practical advantage to a splinter forend.

OTOH, I like to see what I'm shooting at, hit what I'm shooting at, and do it without getting burned. For those reasons, I find there is a practical advantage to a minimalist semi-beavertail (fat splinter?) I'm happy to admire the lines of other people's straight grips and splinter forends, but I think mine have a fairly graceful bellyline from tip to toe. And when it comes to hitting consistently, I've found no equal.

Mr. Campbell, that is a handsome compromise. I would enjoy shooting your gun at the flurry stage of the UP SxS Classic.

Thanks. While the stocks work fine for flurry shoots, the extractors are a bit of a disadvantage.

I'd still choose it, just for style points.

Mike, while I admire your custom Sterlingworth and all you say it is and can do, I think the 'operator' of that fine weapon may claim the greater percentage of achieved success. I've seen you shoot and been on the defeated team.

Dean
(the "Cookie Lady's" lesser half)

Aw shucks, Dean.

What is that lovely ladie's name again? Tell me, please, and give her my best.

It's a matter of personal choice. Much like choosing between seeing and holding a beautiful girl in a bikini, or wrapped up in a fur coat. I'll take the bikini... and the splinter forend.

I'll take the babe in the fur coat - and the straight-wrist double-rifle with the splinter forend.
In 16-bore please.
Babe can be a milky pale bright green eyed redhead.
Sable coat.








Cheers
Tinker

Nice pics Mike. I rest my case. And to the rest of you women who squat when you pee, there's a cosmetics sale at Walmart this weekend. Better get there early. HA!! Women!!

Yep, Sable, nothing underneath and the splinter, best, Mike

Hey Jimmy W....As a pinkie high Tea drinking brit ...I have to say that I think you are full of shit..or at least I'll give it right back to you!
You like Clunky Beavertails....fine...
But I wouldn't call you a piss tasting beer drinker Yank ,now would I ?
Each to his his own , man.
Dontcha think
lets leave it @ that
Cheers old chap
Franc

Bushmaster,

If you are used to a larger forearm then that's what you should buy in a double. I shoot a 12 ga Model 21 with beavertail for ducks, geese, & turkey with mostly 3" shells. Unlike the shooters shooting very light shells for woodcock & such or even clays who can "rest the gun" ,with a 3" mag you better get a tight grip when firing or the gun may not be in your hands for the second shot, especially shooting skyward in waterfowl hunting. The checkered beavertail is excellent for this type shooting, not to mention a second piece of beautiful wood to look at. I do own Parkers, a Remington & an Ithaca with splinters, but I always feel better holding on to wood rather than the barrels. Besides I hunt with five or six guys who shoot nothing but automatics and I never heard any one of them say "I wish I had a smaller forearm so I would have a better sight plane or control of the gun...."

I have fired some pretty potent loads through doubles with splinters. Once even shot several 2 3/4" 12ga factory "Baby Magnum" loads through an old single that weighed no more than 7lbs I'm sure. Wouldn't do it again purely for the reason that old gun shouldn't have had that type of load used in it, AH the ignorance of youth.
I reckon us "Sissies" that squat to pee just don't require all the gimmicks to protect us the "Big HE_Men" type do, We just roll with the punch & go on. Course I knew a little skinny 13yr old, about 90lbs soaking wet, who would beg his Grandfather to borrow an old 12ga single every time he went hunting in preference to the little .410 his Father had stupidly bought him. His approxitamately 250lb uncle who was solid, not fat, made a living carrying one of those big leather Mail Bags around a large Indianna city, fired it one time & handed it back to his father-in-lae & said he wouldn't shoot it again for $100.00. This about 50 years ago when $100.00 was a fair amount of money.

Gee, Franc. No, let's don't leave it at that. Gettin' uppity? A little? I'm sorry, I never acquired a taste for beer. And K McMichael, don't blame me. I wasn't the one who came up with the saying: There's only two things that come from Texas- steers and ?? How does the rest of that go? So, anyway, enjoy your skimpy little forearms guys. Women's guns!! Ha!!

Nothing like the feel of warm steel in yer hands.

Nothing like cold women, hot steel, and trophy capes to bring everyone together, eh Joe?



On the girly-man references above, I'll note that five to six drams behind fourteen bore roundball in this one...




hasn't had me wanting for a forend-codpiece yet.


To each his own.
My old skinny-stocked doubles handle just fine.
My Beretta gas gun and my plastic fantastic 'sporting rifles' all tend to handle just fine too.

The pale-skinned redhead women can be more than a handful!




Cheers
Tinker

I've been shooting Ansley H. Fox doubles with slim forearms for 46 seasons and have never felt the least bit bothered by putting my left hand on the barrels, including 1 5/8 ounce 12-gauge 3-inch shells in my HE-Grade Super-Fox. The only double I ever ran 100 straight at skeet with had a beavertail and a single selective trigger, but I've run 99s with a slim forearm and double triggers.

Mike that's a pretty Gun Club Queen you got there....with all that fancy makeup and nice fAt beaver tail how many Sterlings' you figure she's worth' ?

The late Frank Woolner whittled away on an already-light autoloader (Winchester 59) to turn it into his customized grouse and woodcock gun. He thought it was better with less wood (and weight). To each his own.

Tinker,
That is one dam beautiful hammergun you got there!. Please, please put up some more pics.
JR

John-


The hammer gun is a WR 16-bore double rifle (not straight-wrist though), quite a ripper.
It runs best with 5-1/2 or so drams of FFg
Relatively brisk recoil, glorious sound, and it's accurate.

Here's something with a better view of the little forend, and a nice cape (try to ignore the 'bolt trash')




It's companion is also a WR, from 40 or 50 years later, also quite slender.
More on the 16-bore

I don't think I'd try a perfect score on clays with it, but any way it goes I'm not wanting for more in the wood department at all.
I don't have anything against those who run BT forends on their guns and rifles, and I've seen a few slinky and slender ones that looked nice to me, but I just don't own a double that's not set up with a splinter forend.






Cheers
Tinker

And by the way, they do sell gloves here in Ohio. I even use them on occasion. But I can't see sweating through a leather glove onto the barrels of a gun when you can have a beautiful BTFE to hold onto. And I have yet to have someone tell me how they set a SXS into a gun safe without: (1) taking the chance of having the gun slip out of your hand because you tried to hold onto a skimpy little forend, (2)grabbing ahold of the barrels you just oiled or (3)grabbing the gun by the buttstock and taking the chance of having it fall into the safe, possibly onto another gun. Nope. No, practicality to them at all other than turning them into a woman's gun. Or possibly giving them to an ex-wife that you want to ridicule because she looks almost as hideous as it does. HA!!

Try putting them in "barrel down" Jimmy...and maybe you'll stop dropping them.

I don't even bring the forend along when I duck hunt with my Nitro Special. About all the forend does is collect water below the barrels.

I heAr it makes for a quick take down.

It's really quite simple Jimmy. Squirt a bit of Breakfree or your favorite rust inhibitor/lubricant on a quarter sheet of blue shop towell, wrap it around the barrel, grab the barrel where it is protected by the shop towell and put in the gun cabinet or safe. It takes longer to tell you about it than to do it.

It's getting pretty obvious here that he's not interested in hearing much besides the sound of his own voice.
Looks like a combination of self-loathing, alcohol, and a general threat to his sense of masculinity.

Meanwhile the rest of us remain able to own, shoot, and maintain our guns despite of the amount of timber screwed to the forend iron...



- - - -



and

Could be they don't use shop towels or rags in Ohio either, from the sounds of things. Sweat through a leather glove? Darn . . . we may have the living, breathing example of a "sweathog" here!

Yer think'n with yer dipstick Jimmy...

Those skimpy little forearms are for hunters who get enough shooting without making the gun too hot to hold playing games.

HA!! All that trouble- towels, gloves, leather around the barrels? Hey, here's an idea, just get a BTFE. Then you won't look like you are shooting a woman's gun, plus, you'll be able to control your gun better. And you won't have to wear the bluing off of your guns. And yes, people do sweat through leather gloves, Larry. If you spend a day at a shoot and shoot hundreds of rounds, you'll find that out some day. I saw one guy's gun I know who sweated so much, the dye from his red Bob Allan gloves left hand prints on the wood of his gun where he held his gun. And yes, I do put my guns in my safe upside down. And Tinker- masculinity?? That's great coming from a guy who lives in the prop eight part of the country. You really should have kept quit. Shop towels!! HA!!

Pretty simple here Jimmy W


You're bringing some kind of challenge to the guys here in the thread (and the rest of the world it seems) based on their choice of forend wood style.
Challenge to their masculinity and sexual orientation.

Where does that come from Jimmy?
I think you're spending a little too much time thinking about the sex lives of a bunch of other guys.
You think about sex with guys often Jimmy?
You like big wood Jimmy?
Those 'prop 8 people' you talk about would call you a size queen.
The vast majority of those 'prop 8 people' came to this state from places like wherever you're from.
At least they (whoever they are) have the balls to admit to their orientation.
Looks like the 'inner you' is trying to out himself.

Keep it up Jimmy.
Maybe you'll find the big wood you're really yearning for after all.
I'm sure there's someone out there for you somewhere.
Try a truck stop, perhaps the YMCA showers...




Cheers
Tinker

Oh, yes. The prop eight guy again. With the prissy little forarm gun. And yes, I do have a few guns with skimpy little forends and have always found them to be absolutely worthless. I have yet to hear anyone prove what they are good for. So, no, I won't be changing my mind. So, keep on shooting them, guys.

So, anyway, Bushmaster, this is pretty much the way this discussion usually goes when someone brings up the question. Buy a gun with a skimpy little forearm and then cover it up with a piece of stiff leather to protect your hand or the barrels. Don't use it when you duck hunt and have the water go through your gloves or better yet stick to the barrels. Or, go get a shop towel, cover it with oil when you put it in the safe. Now you see why people just get a BTFE instead of going through all that hassle? Plus you have that much more wood to checker, varnish and give your gun that really great look. This is the way this argument had gone for years.

They weigh less than the ones with the fat forends, Jimmy. For those of us who carry our guns a bit farther than from the trunk of the car to the trap line--as in hunting with them--that can be important. Course if you go back to when they had decent upland hunting in Ohio, that was probably before you were born, so I can understand why you wouldn't see the value of a lighter gun for hunting.

And sweating through a leather glove? I'm still wondering about that one. I've ended up with dye fading onto my hand, for the simple reason that the sweat stays on the inside. Guess folks sweat differently in Ohio . . . or maybe use gloves made of something besides leather.

As for the problem of putting them away, I use a rag with a little oil to handle mine. And that includes a Sweet 16, which has plenty of wood to hold onto. But just in case I get my fingers on the metal . . . Of course since they don't take showers or baths in Ohio, towels of any sort are not likely to be readily at hand.

Jimmys think'n with his dip stick....

Although I've never subscribed to the Freudian psycology notion that guns are phallic symbols, if there were a shred of truth in that, I imagine that wrapping ones' hand around a "big long fat one" would suggest some subconcious desire. I truthfully wouldn't know. Bikini girls and splinters as previously stated.

Wow! Sweaty gloves,girly guns, sexual orientation, big wood, dipsticks and propositions. There is alot more to think about when chosing a guns forearm than balance and aesthetics.

It is pretty good that we live in a society where we can argue about stuff like this!

I will agree that the barrels do get hot but I would not think they get that hot in Ohio.

The last gun that I ordered, a 28 ga, I contemplated a semi beavertail forearm to add some weight and the barrels being small etc. I backed out of it as it was a large purchase and I was afraid I would not like it.

I have had some problems with pistol grips being too small but wearing a glove on my rt hand can help. I have a SKB target gun that has a very tight grip. My K-80 is large and works great.

As for appearance I would look pretty manly shooting a gold plated 25 auto wearing a moo moo dress and size 14 red pumps..........or maybe orangutangly instead of manly!

Jimmy, I am more than willing to take them off your hands. I'll pay shipping to a friend in Miami and find a way to have them sent down to the 3rd World.

Let me know so I can give you the pertinent shipping details.

JC

P.S.: If squatting down to pee will help me get them, I'll send you a corroborating photo.jc

Watch yer dip stick there JC.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZQ_eTMHgHc

BoWhoop (the 1st) was a 12ga 32", 9+ lb 3" magnum with straight grip & splinter forend. "IF" Mr Nash was still with us & in his prime I would For Double Sure like to be in charge of selling the tickets to Watch Little Jimmy W walk up to that Big Man & call him a "Sissy". You keep peeing in the wind Jimmy, Your'e going to wish one of these days you had of "Squatted".

JC ain't afraid of his feminine side!

jack

OK, Jaycee, you're on!! For starters I have three Model 21s with splinters that I will be willing to let you have for around 12 grand- total. I only bought them for investment and can't stand to shoot them with the splinter forends. And since I still have six with the BTFE, I will be more than happy to let you have them for that. Please let me know if you are serious. And Larry, I know you think you always know all about people, but you don't know how I shoot or hunt. I carry a Model 21 all day long when I pheasant, rabbit or squirrel hunt and it does have a BTFE. And a few extra ounces on a gun has never bothered me. People switch from a lighter gun to a heavier SXS and never think about hunting with it. But, they see a BTFE and OH!! that BTFE makes a gun so heavy!! Ridiculous!! And it is probably just as hot and tiring to shoot a hundred rounds at clays in a day, as it is to shoot five or six rounds in the field in a day. I do both. I like to have good contact/control with a gun, so I always use a BTFE. Now, I am sorry guys but after 45 years of hunting, shooting and collecting, I have a great distaste for a splinter forend. They are skimpy little things that are ugly and worthless to me. That's my opinion. Sorry. But good luck to all of you.

Geez Jimmy, that's all you had to say about nine pages ago. But you went off and called a lot of us sissies and skirt wearing, squat peeing, girlie boys, and such, that you ignited a firestorm. So what did we learn from this? Some of us prefer B.T. forends and some like splinters. One type or the other don't make any of us tougher or smarter. By the way, all my splinter forends are made out of poison ivy wood and are inset with broken glass and dirty hypodermic needles in lieu of checkering. So there.

Oh the classic good looks of a Beaver Tail! They never really go out of style, kinda like a Elvis painting on velvet.
Steve

Yer still thinking with yer dip stick Jammy.

I thOught I had the only velvet Elvis picture ....it's hanging on the wall next to my mounted beaver tail.

Well, after 9 pages, only thing I can say is that I think they look good, are proper and for me they feel good. Yes, they can be a problem with many shots being fired, making the barrels hot, but I don't think I am ready for a thumb hole stock either.

Jimmy makes it clear that some people prefer plow horses and others choose thoroughbreds.

Hey Jimmy I got this really nice custom Russian shotgun with a beavertail forend that I would be will to trade you straight up for one of those nasty Model 21's with those deplorable splinter forends. You know just so you don't have to look at it anymore. A 16 or 20 gauge would be real nice. Oh yeah I promise not to put it away using a shop towel either.

No thanks. I already have a Baikal..... I don't know what you are trying to say, keith. Poison Ivy is not a tree. It's an ivy. So, it would be hard to make a stock out of it. And GJZ, I bred and raised horses for years. And I do prefer Clydesdales and Belgiums to narrow headed, skidish Thoroughbreds. But they were the preferred horse of most of the women at the barns where I boarded. Think there's a relationship here? Good luck guys. Nuff said.

Hi Jimmy,

Do make up your mind. First you say some guns you have with splinter forends are
"worthless" and all of a sudden they are worth twelve grand! I am not willing to go
squatting around just for the sake of it.

As far as riding goes, I would much rather mount a "skinny" arabian mare than have
to squat on a Clydesdale or Belgian work horse.


JC

I thought I could sit this one out. Ha!

Logically, splinter forearms are a throwback, and were designed merely to retain the barrels (muzzleloader) or contain the forearm iron (breaktops). If the idea really was to minimze the weight or put the hands close to the barrel, forearms would have been eliminated. Nowadays, splinters are preferred by many just out of hidebound conservatism. Why else would a Model 12 be disallowed on a driven shoot? It spoils the flavor of the day.

All that aside, straight grips, splinter forearms, and double triggers are slick and fun in a minimalist way. It's like the old saw about a sports car being the least amount of machinery on four wheels necessary to move one quickly and securely between two points

As to shooting qualities, I seriously doubt that most people could tell much of a difference in hitting ability betweeen straight/splinter and pistol/beaver configurations. However, if side-by-sides were all that existed in the world and records were being kept of all scores, I suspect the pistol grip and beavertai configuration would come to the front for the better control it offers.

No, JayCee, Arabs are too dicey and choppy to ride. I prefered Walking and Racking horses and quarter horses. And I feel guns with splinter forearms are worthless but I can't give them away after I bought them. But, I hope that you guys know I am just pulling your chains here. I wouldn't seriously resort to name calling because someone liked a different than I. But in the past discussions on this topic have been a bit heated just like this. So, if I really insulted anyone, I do apologize. But I still hate skimpy little splinter forearms with a passion.

Was just being facetious Jimmy, however, poison ivy has several different forms from a weed only inches high to woody vines that commonly grow 50 or more feet up into large trees. Several growing in large trees near my creek are over three inches in diameter at ground level.... more than enough for a very irritating splinter, or even a beavertail. The woody vines contain urushiol which is the same dermatitis causing oil as in the leaves. I have learned the hard way that cutting the vines with a chain saw throws chips that will cause the usual itching rash. Supposedly burning these vines can carry the urushiol in the smoke and cause a rash or even more serious irritation in the lungs if you breathe the smoke. Also, I understand your buying of splinter forend guns. I have bought guns I didn't like when they were too cheap to pass up. I then traded or sold them to get something I did like.

I know that stockmaker.

Jimmy, did you have to stand on a chair when you bred those horses? Sorry . . . couldn't resist.

Jimmy, always thought this was just banter.

Best,

JC

Jimmy:.......... you could put dual Cutts Compensators on your S x S's....to match your BTFE fatness...??.....That would give you more control and you would "have the strange ugly look you are seeking".....also give you air vents at the muzzle........

You could also drive a Yugo or Jap pick up and have the 'complete ugly look'..........guns and all.....hmmmmmmmmm.....

Best,

No, Larry, I didn't breed my horses that way. I had a stump broke pony.

And no, PA24. I don't have Cutts on my 21s. But I do have extended chokes on them. That way I get the same appearence as the Cutts, PLUS, I can hang my bathsuits on them to dry, too. They also drive in the ground easier when I want to use them as tomato stakes. See ya.

Now, I finally livened this place up. It sure was getting rather boring. But, I have just one more question I was meaning to ask you guys. My grandpa left me this ol' shotgun that has two barrels. It's kind of old, but it still shoots real good. How much would you guys say it is worth? Thanks.

Does it by chance have a high venter'lated rib ?

Yes, it has a Moneymaker rib with a 2" eye from a Marlin fishing pole in the middle of the rib. I sighted it in with a bore laser.

Jimmy you might consider stepping away from the conventional Hill Billey sighting system by replacing the 2 inch eye with a Picatinny rail system. I understand that you can get one that will accept any optical sight plus up to two accessories like a flashlight and laser.

Jimmy...Gee I'm not uppity at all, I just hate when someone..ie ..you..tells me what kind of Forend I & everyone else should use/like..just because of your personal preference .
you like Trap....I Don't
I remember well the same "I'm Right " crap you always say about this subject.
We are all different & have different tastes...
It's as simple as that.
Sure tell me your thoughts....but don't tell me I'm wrong...& I'll gladly do the same
I won't call your Beaver a Macho, Ok...just leave my taste in what I hold in my left hand alone!
Unless you are The All Knowing Shotgun Zen Master... leave us to our own devices...good or bad...ok????

And from your posts , I understand why you don't understand....'nuff said....DUHHHHH!!!


Francly irritated

Wow!! I am really so sorry that you got so upset because I don't like beer. But the All Knowing Shotgun Zen Master wants to know just one thing........ just what are you holding in your RIGHT hand?

The all knowing Zen Master should be aware of left handded people.

The problem with all clay target shooters is that they get so use to using only one style of gun that they become very rigid in what they can shoot well. They like heavy, high comb guns, with wide fore ends and such great barrel weight that they swing like a 4X4. This goes for Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays shooters alike. They see the best shots using 9-10 pound guns and use the same thing.

As a reformed clay shooter I now can shoot equally poor scores with O/U, SXS, Pumps and Autos. My bolt action efforts are worse because I can not work the bolt with a bad shoulder and only rarely break doubles with on shell. One trigger or two does not matter. Splinter or beavertail does not matter. Straight, prince of wales or full pistol grip does not matter. To me it is like blonds, redheads and brunets. Men may have a preference but only real old men turn down a free shot at or with one of the others. You are not that old are you? Load two shells and have fun.

A little humility never hurts--especially going in. Wouldn't do to goose egg a couple of stations and then launch into that old refrain "I guess I'm just a 6 shooter today!" like you hope no one noticed. As for skeet, I've reached that plateau of mediocrity where I can break 21 in any condition short of a hurricane or nuclear blast with anything that will load a second round while the targets are still flying (Out-of-bounds stakes don't worry me!).

jack

I am about the same way, rabbit. A 21 or 22 at skeet and I feel I am doing pretty good for the day. But, KY Jon, a 9 or 10 pound gun for clays? I don't see many clays shooters shooting 9 or 10 pound guns for clays. A guy I know just bought a 10 gauge Zabala SXS and he says it weighs just under 12 pounds. So a 9 or 10 pound gun would have to be pretty heavy. The better skeet shots at my club shoot .410s, 28s or 20 gauges most of the time. I don't think my Ljutic trap gun would weigh 9 pounds. But then again, as I said before, most of the guys in this area dislike the splinter forends about as much as I do. Splinters might be alright for the bird hunting crowd, but for clays, most people I know would never buy a gun with a splinter forend for clays. And when I go to the bigger shows in this part of the country, like Louisville where they have about 4,000 tables, the guns with the splinter forends pretty much get passed over if the same model comes with a BTFE. But, to each his own I guess.

You shoot a Ljutic. That explains it all.

Ok, I'm late to this thread, but with all due respect the above quote is from somebody who has absolutely no knowledge of clay target shooting. This is drivel, as is the perceived advantage of burning your hand on a set of hot barrels.

Tell me you like the aesthetics of a splinter...ok. Tell me you like the tradition of a splinter....ok. But please don't try to sell the idea that they shoot better. If they did, the guys who shoot targets and flyers for money would be using them...and they are not.

Cheers all.

Yes, so what do you shoot trap with?

Right, Baron 23. And like I said earlier, your handguns have a grip to hold onto instead of the metal. In fact, many people replace the grip on one to have even better control of the gun. You don't hold a rifle by the barrel(s). So, why would you prefer to hold the barrel(s) on a shotgun? Your fingers can go over the top too far on a quick shot and if you have your hand open you can possibly cover the target or lose control of the gun because you aren't gripping it. Plus they look skimpy and ugly. At least to me. Nuff said.

Jimmy, I picture you as one of those guys who'd sooner have hold of Hillary's ankle than something more slim and trim. In fact, you probably think they LOOK slim and trim!

Larry, if he likes Clydesdales he surely lusts for Hillary's ankles,

JC

Yep!! She's hot!! I'd sure like to see Hillary and Nancy Pelosi together all hot and sweaty!!

Now if you guys don't mind, I'm going to go and take the grips off of my handguns. That way I can go out and buy a pair of gloves so I can shoot them.

Jimmy....I'm sorry, but I have to put you right in the Deep Moron Class
For this one reason, you won't listen to it.????....IT Being reason!
You keep going on n on n on n on n on n on n on ,,,,,,
Like I said Several xxx...its my choice..duhhhh!

You piss me off,,,stick your little Hillary Quotes & Smiley faces etc right up there with your beavertails...U no the spot.
Though a Splinter might be less painful shapewise...despite the name.
Check out the last line of my Most like to Meet post
You are the #before 1,,,,
yeh...that would be Zero.
Chump

Franc

Franc, methinks Jimmy was having fun stretching a joke.

GJZ.....Perhaps..
but he always thinks his opinion is right on this subject..I'd just want to use whatevwer bbl hanger I want;;& it pisses me off severely when I'm told otherwqise,by someone ......who seems numb to other guys preferences
He might be joking know..but his first posts are what I'm talking of
Cheers n That's it
Franc

This is just to remind you of Jimmys First Post...& I Quote...though
I must say that I love the set-up,serious thought, and general intelligence of the piece ...enjoy....

"This is a question that surfaces on this board every so often. I remember the first time I gave my opinion on splinter foreends several years ago. I believe I said something like this...... They are popular in Britain and probably work and look good on their guns. That's the place where they raise their little pinky high in the air when they sip their tea and wear blouses for shirts. But this is America. We like gorgeous wood with lots of checkering and as much wood as we can get on a gun. Who wants to burn the crap out of your hands after shooting several rounds of trap and have to be forced to wear a glove? Or better yet, did you ever see the guy who buys a skimpy little splinter forearm, and then buys one of those clunky leather covers that goes around it? What's with that? And is there anything more aggravating, than oiling up your gun and not being able to handle it to get it into your gun safe without taking the chance of it slipping out of your hand or having to grab the barrels that you just oiled because there is nothing else to grab ahold of? This is America. If you want a whippy handling and sissy looking gun that looks like it was made for a woman, then get one with a splinter foreend. But, if you want people to know that you are a man and that you shoot a man's gun and that you don't squat when you pee, get one with a beavertail forearm.......Hmmmmm. After handling and shooting so many of both of them over the years, experience has taught me I was right back then and I still feel the same way."

I for one thinks he means it.

So I'll stand by my "Deep Moron Class"
Franc

Wowee Zowee, Frank!! If I would have known someone was going to get this wound up over what I said.........Uh, I would have twisted that ol' knife just a little more. LOL. You have got to be kidding me. You went to all the trouble of typing my whole quote? I'll bet that you are wearing a g-string. But, before this post started- they were boxer shorts, right? And I just know that you will be sending me hate mail and then when you meet me, you will be drooling and slobbering and wanting my autograph. Now if you don't mind, you keep interupting my handgun (without a grip) shooting. So, I will just let it go at that.

Hillary quotes? Where do you see me quoting Hillary, Frank?

Neither of you guys has enuf pseudo-factoids to make this into a a legitimate brawl a al the DGS raveups of the past. I invite you both to take a look at some classic Brown/Maloney matches containing not only apparently factual info but some of the greatest "that's neither what I said nor what you said that I said you didn't say you said" counterpunching of all time. You guys don't have the stamina to go 9 pages. Shoot and let shoot!

jack

Calling people names and questioning their sexual preference because they don't like the same forearm that you do and then other people insulting the worlds morons by dragging them into the fray. You guys sound like a couple of bored middle school kids. Get a life!
Steve

Jimmy, haven't you heard of "copy/paste"?

JC

P.S.: Apropos of Clydesdales, Hillary's derriere must surely send you into a rage! jc

Hi Steve,

As someone said we'll always be kids, the only thing that changes is the price
of our toys.

JC

You are right! And all I wanted to do was see Nancy and Hillary all hot and sweaty!!

Copy? Paste? Of course I have heard of them- when I was in the first grade. Clydesdales and Hillary? Oh yes!! They make me so angry. And I am in such a rage! Grrrrrr!

Jimmy is it true that guys that see beauty in Beaver tail forearms also prefer wOmen over 300 lbs. ?

Come on guys, get a grip. The biggest most important "rationale" I can think of is, I like their looks and feel. No science to it, just what I like.

I have been holding the cliché back for 14 pages:

"De gustibus non est disputandum".

JC

P.S.: Jimmy "rage" as in "passion".jc

Not me. I like 'em tall and slender.

I like my saying better: A bird in the hand is worth a push in the bush.

JC:

My wife has a similar clay placard that says something to the effect that the only difference between me and boys is the price of their toys.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I think these two are priceless IMO........

Not by the hairs on my Chin-Chin either. Your Gough Thomas praised the great American perfect repeater- our Winchester M12-and to follow his path- I prefer my Model 12's pre-WW2 vintage, with the field 18 ring "corncob' forearm- later field M12's in the 1950's went to a form of modified beavertail, but with the rings- and of course, the Trap and Skeet M12's made after 1935 almost always had bigger forearms as std. issue-

I have only owned and shot one American side-by-side with an after market beavertail style forearm- a re-done-over 12 AH Fox HE--and I reshaped it to a modified splinter. For my size and build, I do not have large hands, and I agree with the others whom have previously posted herein- the closer I can get my left (barrel or leading hand- my right does the trigger work)to the barrel (M12) or barrels- (side-by-side) the more control I feel I have over the shotgun, and the better I shoot it--

The "status" of a fine British SLE with a straight hand grip and a splinter forearm cannot be denied I suppose- but also- "form follows function" and there would not have been so many of them made in that configuration if their owners could not use them efficiently afield--

I'll sell you the copyrights to my lines for $1.95 and a cold beer. While that may sound expensive it is only 100 times more than a beavertail forearm is worth.

u boys gittin really weird on dis won....

This whole thread should be bronzed. My Remington 10 bore has a splinter fore end and I don't squat to pee. On the flip side my Sauriugarte has a semi-beavertail and I don't feel like peeing on a tire either.

You guys keep laughing in the mean time Jimmy's riding off into the sun set in his shiny red Corvette....

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...9596#Post249596

What puzzles me is how he gets that 300 lb beaver tail in the passenger seat.

Brent, those are excellent suggestions for use of a beavertail forearm. I think you may have inadvertently left one out though - they make excellent door stops

My doors are too close to the door to let a beavertail fit underthem. But I have found they are usually quite dry and make good kindling. My dog Gus would love to retrieve them too if I toss them in the river. So, they do have lots of sustainable uses if one thinks about it.

I agree on bronzing this thread - hilarious. And I stand to pee, too, even though my sxs all have splinter forends.

But, more to the point, I will say that shooting trap with a splinter forend sxs is made much more pleasant when you're shooting in a Maine winter league and you can warm your hands on the barrels.