Y'all hear the news on John Rigby & Co. Ltd ..? - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com

It seems things have been brewing out in London lately...

John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd

Looks like they're bringing the Rigby Bissel Rising Bite back, and look at the prices!

Cheers
Tinker

Okay,
what sthe deal with the name as compared to the "other Rigby" that uses Merkel actions. Obviously there are some semantics in the name to get around what was sold to the US firm, or am I off on this one. Strange happenings for sure.

Brian-

I can't speak for the legal arrangements.
What I can say is the guys who are involved in the effort are not related to the California company, and that they are very serious about the venture and their machines have been running around the clock.

Expect to see the first examples on the new website very soon.

I very much look forward to viewing, handling, and hunting with one of their round action side lock ejector double rifles!

Cheers
Tinker

Interesting. I just checked the California site, they both use the same name.
Will be interesting to see how this all works out.
Interesting how this all comes to be.

would love to see one of the new rising bite rifles.

Are the guns being built in the UK by UK trained folks?

I couldn't find any info about this on the site.

This is their listed address:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...,246.3,,0,-6.93

Thanks

OWD

OWD-

So far the site shows a page for the craftsmen.
It appears Mr Marcus Hunt will be taking their engraving commissions.
Mr David Mitchell will be doing the finishing.
Two names as yet, both of them are long-standing top-shelf London trade master craftsmen.
Neither of these guys is known to lollygag with sub-par efforts.

From what I've heard, the actions and locks are being built in London by London craftsmen.
I'm guessing these guns and rifles will bear no resemblance to the Paso Robles Rigbys.

Originally Posted By: obsessed-with-doubles

Are the guns being built in the UK by UK trained folks?

Cheers
Tinker

Saw it on Nitroexpress.
It seems the people behind it are the right people.
RG

With the world economy in the shape it's in they ought to really do good.

Might just be the case.

Some see opportunity in disaster!

Cheers
Tinker

This needs watching. The Rigby name is in dispute with three people claiming the right to use it. Two in the UK and onein the US.

Let's see what transpires but at present there is smoke and mirrors. I can't say as much as I know but this is likely to get interesting.

Mr H-

This definitely looks to be quite the bold maneuver.
I'm keeping my eyes and ears on the story for sure.

From what I've seen of the US-built Rigbys, and most of them have looked more or less like this one, image pinched off the gunsinternational site

and this

and not like this, also pinched from the gunsinternational site

I know that there are different action types shown there, but what I'm pointing to is a general style and level of presentation and finish.
I'm very much interested to see what the work of this new London-based effort will look like - and how it will handle and how it will run.

What legal issues there may be - that could very well end up being quite interesting, but I doubt there will be OJ Simpson-esque transparency to the proceedings...

Cheers
Tinker

Other than a website, do they have a real presence that anyone has seen?

It seems kind of odd that their launch hasn't been mentioned in the UK sporting mags.

Or maybe it has been mentioned and I missed it.

OWD

OWD-

I can't speak directly for this group - but from what I've gotten via off-line conversation is that they are definitely living, breathing men with time and experience in the London trade, also with real-live metal and machinery piling chips behind the business of production.

As incendiary as this (seemingly too early) outing of the new Rigby effort might seem - one thing that appears to be true is that it's not vapor-ware and that these guys believe in what they're up to.

Cheers
Tinker

I hope what they build doesn't look as cheaply made as the three guns you posted.

I think you mean the top two Homie, the bottom one is the real deal.

No I said what I meant.

Post deleted by Run With The Fox

As an aside, what is that drippy greasy shiny stuff that Puglisi smears on all his guns? Wonder what it smells like!

Curl

Looks like someone was eating fried chicken while handling the guns! No, not possible!

FWIW;
Was in Westley Richards Agency building in 1997 as they were getting ready for the SCI show. Bob Francis and Simon Clode were discussing how every gun got a light wipe each day with a silacone cloth to "improve" the looks of the gun during display. I even got to hold the bottle of magic elixer made for WR.

Jack's guns definitely have a 'money shot' kind of glaze on them.
I just put that up as a working-gun example.
This new effort claims that their C-Class (working) rifle will be a full side lock ejector rifle with similar (minimal) engraving.

If I were to 'go there' I'd likely be pitching in for a C-Class rifle.

Any way it goes, the return of the rising bite on a Rigby should create quite the splash.

This old Rigby went through Julia in March.

I think that the real on-the-ground last-word acid test will be how their 'best' guns and rifles compare to the high grade guns of the past.
There are lots of folks who will expect 'London Best' to be on par with 'London Best', and anything short of that will be picked to pieces.
These guys realize this no doubt, and have had plenty of 'Best' guns and rifles across their hands to know the difference.

Cheers
Tinker

The bottom gun is a pre-war British Rigby. It's a Class D, Rigby's lowest grade boxlock double rifle. In that day, Rigby built none of their boxlock DRs. All were "bought in". Most came from Webley & Scott, but a few came from John Wilkes and Charles Osborne, perhaps others. This particular gun came from Osborne. These weren't nearly of the quality of the rifles sourced from Webley and Wilkes.

The new firm says they will only build sidelocks.

Thanks for the note on the boxlock and the history notes too!

My intent there was to show bare-bones 'work rifle' from the old Rigby next to a couple of examples from the CA-based shop.

All three being in as-new condition, I'd take the Class D at the bottom of the three.

I can't wait to see examples of the 21st Century London effort.

Cheers
Tinker

[quote=Small Bore]This needs watching. The Rigby name is in dispute with three people claiming the right to use it. Two in the UK and onein the US.

2 in the UK ?
Aza

I'm guessing P Roberts may be one of those two British men he is referring to.

Originally Posted By: Aza

Originally Posted By: Small Bore

This needs watching. The Rigby name is in dispute with three people claiming the right to use it. Two in the UK and onein the US.

2 in the UK ?
Aza

I do not know who else he is thinking of.
Small Bore - care to toss a clue?

Cheers
Tinker

First snapshots of the first 12-bore from the workshop

Seems they'll have better images some time next week...

Cheers
Tinker

Aza -

I saw this come up somewhere else on the web, the Rigby Board of Directors (london) have taken a moment to speak to legal concerns...

Originally Posted By: Aza

Originally Posted By: Small Bore

This needs watching. The Rigby name is in dispute with three people claiming the right to use it. Two in the UK and onein the US.

2 in the UK ?
Aza

Originally Posted By: Rigby London Administration, elsewhere on the web, to help answer similar concerns...

Dear Sirs.

Questions have been raised regarding the legal position of our company.
Again because of the support you have shown to us here, we should like to answer your questions.

John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd. is a correctly constituted and legally registered UK company. It has no connection what so ever to any company bearing the same or similar name that may be registered in the US. We do not have the rights to nor have we used any trademarks that may be registered to any US company. You will note that the guns are engraved Jno.Rigby & Co. as they were in the past. This company, is also owned by this board of directors.
John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd’s board of directors has no connection with any persons who may have made a previous attempt to “buy out” the US company of similar name.
The board of Directors is, for the matter of public interest, comprised of gunmakers, gun collectors, professional hunters, engineers, estate managers and others.
The financial structure of the escrow account system ensures that no customer’s monies are ever placed at risk. The escrow accounts are under the control of an escrow management company. They are not monies to which the board of John Rigby and Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd. have access. They are not the property of John Rigby and Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd. and are immune from any legal action.
Escrow gives complete and absolute protection to clients monies, they can only be released upon completion of a contract i.e. delivery of a clients gun. Or failure of one party to complete. That is if the Gunmaker fails to deliver the gun the money will be released to the client. If the client fails to make the final payment the money will be released to the Gunmaker.

We hope that this assuages your concerns.

The Board of Directors.

http://www.johnrigbylondon.com

This might just thicken the plot, tangle the web, or set another stone in the path to success.
Any way it goes, I'm still waiting to see/hold/run one of these new Brit Rigbys.

Cheers
Tinker

Huh? So I can start a J. Purdey & Sons over here without a problem? What about a Boss & Co. Seems odd, but I'm not an expert in this stuff. Anyone have any insights into this?

And all that talk about "escrow" seems odd to me. Who owns the escrow management company?

Do other makers bring this up right away?

One more thing, is there any real advantage to the rising bite action?

What about in a DR? Would the extension hamper the rapid reloading of it?

OWD

OWD-

If you want to start a J. Purdey & Sons over here in the USA, I'd think you'd have to first take a look to see if you could legally do that first

If you could - then go for it.
Something you'd (naturally) want to consider is who your market would be.
It doesn't seem that these guys in the UK will have much trouble finding enthusiastic clients.

Originally Posted By: obsessed-with-doubles

Huh? So I can start a J. Purdey & Sons over here without a problem? What about a Boss & Co. Seems odd, but I'm not an expert in this stuff. Anyone have any insights into this?
And all that talk about "escrow" seems odd to me. Who owns the escrow management company?
Do other makers bring this up right away?
One more thing, is there any real advantage to the rising bite action?
What about in a DR? Would the extension hamper the rapid reloading of it?

OWD

On escrow, I don't know who will run the escrow management company.
These guys are definitely on the foot of a very bold move though, and escrow is a great way to protect both the buyer and the seller.
Good for them!

Other makers offering this kind of firewall?
I haven't heard of it - and I haven't looked very closely at other start-up efforts in the 'nice gun world' either.
Has the US-based Rigby effort had a couple of bankruptcy filings since they started up?
If so, what happened to the deposits etc of the clients?

I'm confident that if you (or anyone) are a potential client of theirs, and if you had questions and concerns about the bits and parts of 'the deal', they'd be happy to have a chat with you.

On the rising bite fastener -- strength?
Better than what?
On speed of reloading a double rifle?
I don't have any issues reloading my double rifles that have rib extension third fasteners, and I doubt I'd find the rising bite arrangement any different than those I've run.

Cheers
Tinker

I'm just curious, that's all. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know all the legalities surrounding these things.

These guys have a website that is accessible by US customers, so they are trading in the US. So are those guys in CA.

I wonder if the Rigby/Bissel rising bite is stronger than just a standard Purdey bolt.

This H&H 600NE has a hidden third fastener:

http://www.drake.net/Holland.600%2335698

So does this H&H .375:

http://www.drake.net/h26h375dr

So I guess there is advantage to a third fastener. I don't know enough about DRs to really know.

I think Rigby dropped the rising bite from their Best DRs at one point. I'm sure it adds a chunk of time to the making of the gun. I wonder if that additional time is really worth it.

Just thinking out loud.

Thanks

OWD

So here's what you get for 9.999,-£

The 'B-Grade' 12-bore shotgun

Evidently, this gun was just released as a production sample.
That, and there's two levels higher and one below it in grade.

Cheers
Tinker

This is not a small effort. I certainly wish them well.
-Jani

I always thought those USA Rigby's I saw in the big page DGJ ad's afew years ago looked horrible,& gaudy....the engraving seemed just so out of whack withe the real thing....big old crude Buff' heads...Presidential seals etc...thick gold lines.....looked like a K80 to me.
I thought they should be illegal!
Damn it , you can't beat a 100 year old gun for looks,though, can you?
fRANC

Franc-

The 12bore gun shown above just left the maker's hands this week.
It's brand spanking new and you can order one like it for 9.999,-£ from this new London effort.

You could also order something from the Paso Robles effort (totally unrelated businesses) for about three times the price, and it'll resemble the things you described having seen in the DGJ pages these past few years.

Great to have options, no?

Cheers
Tinker