I just returned to IL from AK by way of SD and stopped at Cabela's in Mitchell, where there was a nice Trojan 16-ga. shooter in the Gun Library @ $1,399 with 28-inch bbls and #-one frame; still some case colors, not overly worn checking, bright bores (honed?), and more exterior aging than one would expect after looking inside, perhaps a marker of a closet gun that suffered some corrosion and cleaning. The trigger plate had been off but the screw slots are only very-slightly distorted, and the side-action screws seem unturned. Stock head has some oil stain at the action but the wood sounded solid and the finish good enough. Ribs seemed solid if the ringing test means anything. All in all a gun I would buy for my son if he didn't already have the Trojan (12-bore) I bought at the Vintage Cup last year.

Just a heads up if anyone is going through Mitchell SD soon as pheasant season looms...my rancher friends near Winner said the pheasants depradated their newly-seeded crops in the spring, but I didn't see any birds, probably because the corn, beans, and other crops are as yet unharvested. EDM

Welcome back, ED...Geo

You've probably read stuff this before Ed, but might enjoy this thread http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=240

Ed,

How was the fishing?

Phil

Weren't all 16ga Trojans on the #1 frame? I know it varied with the graded guns, but I was under the impression that on Trojans, all guns of the same gauge were built on the same frame.

Caught rainbows on the Bois Brule in WI; rainbows on the Galatin in Bozeman MT (scouted the Madison in MT and Snake in ID, but salmon flies had not yet made their appearance, so we moved on...); lake trout and cutthroats on Jackson Lake WY (mostly 17-inch); Arctic grayling and rainbows in the Yukon (mostly the Klondike river and Clear Creek); pinks (or humpy) salmon on Sheep Creek, AK; Peters Creek, AK yielded a nice 16-inch rainbow and a few grayling; and I finished up with my two-day limits of 14- and 15-inch grayling on Adler Creek on the road to Eagle AK; all but the pinks were killed with my 6-foot 3-weight St. Croix fly rod. And we ate them all! Even tried Beluga whale in Inuvik, NW Territory. Non-resident license in AK was $145 and Yukon $35 for full year. I got my money's worth...

On the minus side, it started raining when we got into BC in June, and was mostly 30 to 55 degrees and overcast and raining till we got back to Montana last week.

And we discovered something: The sun never sets, even in July, if you go high-up enough--the Summer Solstice/Arctic Circle/midnight sun/24-hours of sunlight scenario presumes you are at sea level, and at 4,000 to 5,000 feet the sun we never saw but briefly between showers was up around the clock, even south of the Arctic Circle, even in mid-July. EDM

That could be; Parker did not note frame size in the records, however, observed guns are as you say.

Actually the one-frame was standard in 12-gauge back before wood nitro powders became popular in the 1890s (Dittmar's Wood Smokeless was available in the mid-1870s), but the advent of two-frame Parkers in 12-bore really followed the introduction of the Parker hammerless in late-1888 and thereafter. Many of the 1880s & 1890s Damascus 12-bores have one frames (1/16-inch over one inch between firing pins), which I believe were used mostly on the upland bird guns, while the two and three frames (2/16- and 3/16-over-one-inch) were used to build up barrel thickness (and weight) on trap and waterfowlers. As loads got generally heavier after 1890, and customers wanted their guns warranted for nitro powders, Parker went to the two frame on 12s for barrel thickness, but then shaved down the frame's exterior to make the 1 1/2 frame while maintaining the 1 and 2/16-inch between the pins.

This was mostly history when the Trojan was introduced in 1912, and I suppose to keep things simple on a cheap gun the frame was standardized as No.One (1/16-over-one-inch between the pins) to allow for sturdy "knockabout" barrel thickness consistent with "modern" loads. But with the Trojan frame being unique there was no reason to distinguish two different exterior dimensions (1/2 and full size) as it is doubtful that the Trojans were anything but "one size fits all."

The funny thing is that smaller frame size does not necessarily translate into a lighter gun. For example, my 1936 VHE Skeet gun has a 1 1/2 frame and weighs 6 lbs 15 ozs; I have weighed other later-date Skeet guns with the hallowed 1/2 frames that are heavier, and Bill Hedricks VHE 1/2 frame is but an ounce or two lighter. This was covered in Parker Guns: The "Old Reliable."

Somebody, no doubt, will jump in and cite any known exceptions.

Investigation continues. EDM

Ed,

WOW! Now I wished I hadn't asked...I'm jealous! LOL

Seriously, glad to hear you had a safe and enjoyable trip.

Phil

The allure of the 0 frame 16 gauge has created more of a mis-perception in the Parker world than anything else.

A 1 frame gun, regardless of gauge, is a delight to hold. IMO, a #1 fits the adult hand and frame better than a 0 frame and that is not coming from a big guy.

If I let 10 friends who don't know any better shoot my 0 frame 16 and my 1 frame 16, 9 of them will remark that the really like the way the #1 frame shoots.

If I were ordering my new Parker in 1912, right before I boarded the Titanic, I would order a #1 frame gun 6-1/2 lbs.

I had a PH 16, factory rebarreled with V tubes, correctly SN'd, etc. Very open chokes. Shot it extremely well, figured it'd be a dandy grouse and woodcock gun. Not so, or at least not so for me, because where I hunt those birds, there's a lot of 1-handed carrying involved as you part the aspen whips. That one went about 6 3/4, and after a couple days in the UP, my right arm told me it was an overweight grouse gun, for me at least. #1 frame.