I have had a couple opportunities to shoot 3/4 oz 12 gauge loads extensively recently and find they are a real treat to shoot and very deadly on targets. During a trip to England last July, I shot Hull CompX 21 gram (3/4oz) loads at the high towers at Bisley and West London shooting grounds. The light loads are very soft on recoil, but still break targets nicely on the high towers, even up to 200 feet.

This weekend, I shot a case of RST's 3/4 oz Falcon 12 gauges at the Hidden Hollow - Rock Mountain shoots in Pennsylvania. Even in my 6.5 pound Arthur Turner sidelock, the recoil was the softest I've felt (or not felt), but still broke targets nicely, even at Hidden Hollow's long "mad jack' station and Rock Mountain's high cliff station.

I was really pleased with the soft recoil and less barrell flip, and still felt confident on all targets. Count me as a fan the little 3/4 oz loads.

For those who like less recoil, I think shooting a good 3/4 oz load in a light 12 gauge is a nice alternative to shooting smaller bores and probably has even less felt recoil.

I started loading 3/4 oz. 12 gauge shells when I was teaching 4-H shooters, mostly girls in their early teens. Many of them were recoil sensitive and the heavier 12-gauge gun with light loads worked better than a light 20 with standard loads. 28 gauge was not an option at that time.

The 3/4 oz. loads broke targets so well I started shooting them myself and still enjoy them for sporting clays. It sure stretches a bag of shot as well as making my old body feel better.

Have you used them hunting? I assume 3/4 oz in a 12 gauge could do anything 3/4 oz in a 28 gauge could do.

...and better. They should pattern a lot better having a shorter shot column which in
turn produces less damaged shot.

JC

That's all I have loaded and shot for over 40 years...3/4 and 7/8 oz...(Unique powder)...kills the same -(live or clay)- in every instance as compared to what the other guys were using.....with much better patterns and easy on the old doubles of any make.....

Unless you're the sky scraping type....then you need an anti-aircraft gun anyway.....

Best,

You guys that reload - mind giving your load data ? I have an adj. charge bar and have gotten down between 3/4 and 7/8 with a good crimp without any filler or 20ga wad in the plastic wad. But at 3/4oz I have trouble with the crimp. Thanks for any help. Paul

Another thing I noticed was 125 of the 3/4 oz loads in my cartridge bag was noticeably lighter to carry around than a bag of 1 oz loads.

Bladesmith....I use the Remington Nitro Gold cases only, which 8 star quite easy with most loads....now using Western Orange wads with one cheerio as filler before the shot....crimps quite nice.....not overly firm...just right IMO....hope this helps...

Best,

The RST's work in 2.5" shotguns, making a nice light load for old Vintage doubles. I shot their 7/8 and 1 oz loads at the shoot as well. While all were mild and did the job well, the 3/4 was really light, but still hit just as hard. I really liked it. Shooting a case over a couple days was a real pleasure.

I used to shoot 1 oz. loads at trap. At the time, I was practicing/shooting with All American Jimmy Walker. I mentioned to him one day that I was shooting 1 oz. loads and he remarked that if you shoot 1 oz. loads, you are beat before you even start. He was right. It wasn't long before I was shooting in the local calcuttas against guys like him and Pat Neff, who has won the Grand and several events there over the years, and was getting my butt kicked. So, shooting less than a 1 1/8 oz. load is OK for piddling around, but when the money is on the line, you had better get some shoot in those loads. I use a 1 oz. load for shooting skeet, now, but when it gets time to be serious, my loads are 1 1/8 oz.

I have had mixed results getting good crimps when loading 3/4 oz. I use a Fed SO-12 wad and no pressure on the loading handle and follow the printed recipes. I know Clay Shooting magazine had an issue last year devoted to the lite loads. I have more confidence in the 7/8 oz. personally.

PA24 - great idea - thanks. I started shooting trap 39 yrs ago and never would have thought of anything but 1 1/8oz loads. Quit shooting untill about 8yrs ago and the wife got me back into it. After reading quite a bit about reloading I went to 1oz, then 7/8oz. I've never noticed any difference in scores, only recoil. To each his own, but I sure like the 7/8oz loads. Paul

Bladesmith....yes, I like the 7/8oz. the best for all around, scores are high, lots of dead birds and no wear and tear on the guns or the shooter.......

Best Regards,

Jimmy,

Did it ever occur to you that maybe your "loose nut behind the butt" just wasn't as good as those who did the "kickin'? Unless the shooting was long-range handicap (maybe) it sounds like Mr. Walker got inside your head just a bit.

Are the 3/4 oz shooters using tighter chokes than with 1 oz?

If I expect to need "longer range" performance, yes, I am. And, that is with the understanding that effective pattern diameter will be smaller, which requires a smaller aiming error angle to score.

That said, I would do the same thing for any reduction in shot charge, reguardless of the gauge. Also, this applies to a reduction in shot count via larger shot where both the number of hits and striking energy must be kept up for lethality.

Shotguns are especially subject to the law of "no free lunch." Larger shot size is the antidote to reduced energy from reduced velocity. Increased choke effect is the antidote to reduced shot count or extended range; at the cost of reduced effective pattern diameter. More accurate aiming is the antidote to reduced pattern diameter; at the cost of more practice of better technique.

Stallones,

Actually, unless 3/4 oz loads are pushed extremely fast, these loads can require less choke constriction than loads that use more shot. In fact, one of the big problems with 3/4 oz loads is to get the things to open up. High velocities, open chokes, and/or soft shot are all employed to make 12 ga. 3/4 oz "open up".

Rocketman,

Has it right...up to a point. With 12 ga. target loads, the point might not be as profound as one might suppose. The issue is fairly simple mathematics. (It would have to be for a "finger adder" like me!)

Let's say that we are dealing with 80% patterns as baselines for 1 oz, 7/8 oz, and 3/4 oz loads. If hard shot is used, such pattern percentages are extremely common, especially from full-choked barrels.

0ne-ounce loads that generate 80% patterns will, theoretically, place exactly the same number of pellets in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards as a 1 1/8-ounce load that generates 71%. Empirical results tend to be consistent with this estimate. A long-yardage handicap target generally stands very little chance in a 71% 1 1/8 oz's pattern, unless the pattern is extremely "patchy" or "holey". Exactly the same claim can, therefor, be made for the patterns thrown by good-quality 1 oz loads, even when "large" (for target loads) shot is used. In fact, it is not at all uncommon for 1 oz loads to "throw" 7 1/2 shot even better than all but the best 1 1/8 os loads (possibly due to less shot deformation and/or shorter shotstrings?). Relative advantages to the 1 1/8 oz loads: More shot (than perhaps necessary) and a (false?) sense of security for shooters who remain convinced that they need "all those soldiers". Relative disadvantages to the 1 1/8 oz loads: More expense, more noise and recoil, with their negative effects on the shooter, and more difficulty obtaining pattern per centages that are equivalent to those which are more easily obtained with lighter shot charges.

Similarly, 80% patterns of 7/8 oz loads and 3/4 oz loads theoretically will yield patterns that are equivalent to approximately 62% and 60% of 1 1/8 oz loads, respectively. Again, empirical results tend to support such estimates. Such "modified choke" patterns can reach out a long way. International trap shooters, who shoot 24 gram loads, routinely break targets on second barrel shots that are taken at ranges that are pretty close to those of 27 yard line handicap trap shots. At the very least, these "mini loads" ought to be more than adequate for all but the most demanding 16-yard and doubles shots, and this would be true even before the loads were "tricked up" using lighter shot and faster velocities. The "advantages" of 1 1/8-oz loads are beginning to look pretty small, aren't they?

Oh, about "smaller patterns"; maybe not, at least as a general rule. Over 20 years ago, Don Zutz demonstrated that, at least as often as not, there are next to no differences in the diameters of modified choke and full choke patterns at 40 yards. The main differences have to do with the number of pellets in the pattern, especially in the patterns' "cores". It would seem that the need for "more accurate aiming" might be located more often between shooters' ears than it is out where the targets fly.

I have been considering another 12-bore. I regret getting rid of my AYA #2 12b. I don't reload.

What low-recoil loads with 3/4 oz. or 7/8 oz of shot would yall reccommend?

Adam

Adam,

Alliant and Hodgdon publish alot of 7/8 oz data. I think Hodgdon developed some 3/4 oz data for the CAS shooters. Years ago I emailed both companies to ask if I could use 7/8 oz data as the basis for 3/4 oz loads. Both companies said yes. Phil Hodgdon told me that he had been doing this for his son.

I use old style AAs or any Rem hull (STS or GC). For 3/4 oz the DR pink or the WW OEM AA12L are best. For 7/8 I'm now partial to the clear Duster, though the CB AA12L clone works well.

I've had best results with Clays. I prefer it to RD, Claydot, and Promo. If you plan to use 3/4 and slow 7/8 oz loads in the cold use a primer that is at least as brissant as the Win 209. In January nothing works as well as the Fed 209A here in ME.

Sam

Adam......since you don't reload as mentioned above....RST has four 7/8 oz. loads and one 3/4 oz. load...called their Maxi-Lite and Falcon Lite, according to their chart.....all are good loads for the non-reloader......
Their number is 570-553-2845....buy some Lites and enjoy the 'good life' more than you would imagine.....

Best Regards,

Look at the Fiocchi low-recoil training loads. 1200fps at 6,000psi.

Good Topic.
I'm a big believer in 7/8ths and 1.0 oz. loads for double guns for Skeet and Double-Gun Sporting Clays. For most other sports however, the 1 1/8 oz. load does have the advantage of simply more pellets. There is no getting away from it.
If you want to be on the top podium, in Trap and 12 gauge Skeet, the 1 1/8 oz. loads have been the ones to use. I don't know if there has ever been an ATA Grand Champion or NSSA World Champion (in 12 gauge), that has used a 1.0 oz. load or smaller.
Part of it is clearly tradition or inertia on the part of the shooters themselves. I don't doubt the math discussed above, but the empirical evidence would indicate that something other than math is at play in all of those championships being won with 1 1/8 oz. loads.
Personally, I'm not shooting for a podium position any more and the advantages, to me, of the 1.0 oz and smaller loads is very real in terms of recoil.
The International shooters obviously do very well with the lighter charges, but usually at high velocity, which somewhat negates the recoil benefit.
I'm surprised that no one mentioned the many 1.0 oz. and lighter offerings of B&P. I've been very pleased with several of their shells.

The "Math" says that "All else being Equal" the range at which various loads will put the same number of pellets on target is proportional to the Sq Root of number of pellets.
The catch of course is that "All other things" are not always equal.

The bottom line though is "IF" a lighter charge gives an equal effective range it has to do so by giving a tighter pattern, thus less margin for aiming error.

The "Inconsistency" of thinking along these lines though has never failed to amaze me. So many think the small charges from a small bore as a .410 or 28 will "Kill as Far" as a 12 but you have to point closer, while at the same time they think that 10 or 8 gauge guns have simply "Fantastic" killing ranges which a mere 12ga cannot come close to, due to their large "Holes" down the bbl.

Rocketman,

My knowledge of the Rayleigh Distribution is a bit vague, admittedly. However, if my understanding of the distribution is in any way correct, shotgun patterns at distance tend not to follow such distributions, especially in the cases of tighter chokes. As "Gough Thomas" points out, shotgun patterns tend to "trumpet out" as they approach their maximum extended ranges.

My comments were based on 80% patterns at 40 yards. I assumed that this would have been understood. Yes, all loads will pattern 80% at some distances and heavier shot charges will have more pellets in their 80% patterns than lighter shot charges will. So what?

I guess my attempt to make my point was unclear. Smaller pattern percentages DO NOT necessarily indicate smaller pattern diameters. Zutz demonstrates this fact when he compared modified and full choke patterns and "Gough Thomas" takes this to comparisons between IC and FC patterns. Differences between patterns thrown by various chokes are very often differences in the densities of pattern cores rather than pattern diameters.

[Full disclosure: My computation of the relative pattern per centages for 3/4 ounce loads should have been 53.33%, not 60%. To extend my analysis, if 85% patterns are used as a baseline, 1-ounce loads "score" 75.55%, 7/8-ounce loads "score" 66.11%, and 3/4-ounce loads "score" 63.75%, relative to 1 1/8-ounce loads.]

There is not a "core" to patterns? Really? This would be news to a whole lot of shooters who patterned their guns and were able to detect and analyze often large variations in pattern center density. The "aiming error" comment is accurate.

Tight chokes, small bores and light loads have always been fun for me. Do they lower the probabilty of a hit? Sure. If hitting as much as possibly is your only goal, go big bore and big load. That's not my goal. My goal is to have fun. Everyone can chose what makes their shooting/hunting more fun. This is America. I chose small bores and sometimes light loads in large bores. I have a cabinet with a shelf full of 5/8 oz 12ga shells about 1 3/4" long. Great fun on the quail, dove and pigeons. Best pattern I've ever seen.

Man! The shot charges in those 5/8-ounce 12 gauge shot charges must really be "square"! Are those shells "commercial" (if so, made by whom)or your reloads (data?)?

They're made by Aguila and are about $8 a box of 20 now. I bought a bunch when they were on sale. I think "square" as it pertains to this load is an understatement. I think they're "flat". Like I said, best pattern I've ever seen. The yuk, yuk is that you can really mess with the smallbore guys when they catch you "overgunning" shooting your 12g at dove/quail and raz you. Then you pull a shell out and the laughter and amazement starts.

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowsePr...g=653***9217***

Chuck,

I'll have to admit that these shells are cute little devils! Based on some British writing, it is almost surprising that these rounds pattern as well as they do. 2-inch 12 gauge cartridges have traditionally been though of as being problematic if they are fired in in 2 1/2-inch or longer chambers. It appears that "cup" OP wads have laid that concern to rest.

A "Square load" definition is somewhat dependent on who is doing the defining. The one I feel is most correct is that the length of the shot column in the bore is equal to its diameter. In 12ga this gives an approximate 1 1/16oz load. Thus the extremely popular 12ga loads in days of yore of 1oz & 1 1/8oz straddle the Sq load. Loads for the smaller bores were seldom loaded "Square" but more often had a column length similar to the 12ga. A Sq load for the 28 by above definition would be about 6/10 (0.60) oz. (Note these loads were primarily developed to give desired ballistics at acceptable presures for the burn rate of available powders, thus the similar column lengths) If you check popular shot wts of older shells you will find they run very close to being proportionate to the Square of the bore dia.

Others have defined a Sq load as an equivelent wt to a round ball, but personally I would simply call this a round ball equivelent load, not a Sq one. Loads meeting this definition can be found by simply dividing 16 by the ga number thus for 12ga is 1 1/3oz & for 28ga 0.57oz or about 9/16oz.

I have read a lot of "Gun Writers" who put great stock in the load being Square, but can't recall ever seeing any "Real Balistician" give any weight to it.

The most hillarious thing I ever read on sq loads was a writer extolling the virtues of the 28ga because of its Sq Load. He proceded to give the rd ball theory & rightly dived 16/28 & came up with .57. He then stated this "Showed Conclusively" the 3/4oz load in the 28 was square. Don't know if he was totally dislexic or so mathamatically ignorant he just didn't know that .57 & .75 are nowhere close to being equal, in spite of using the same two digits, "OR" if he thought all his readers were that ignorant.

I've cut some of the Aguila's apart and they do indeed have a shotcup type wad. Furthermore it has a real cushion section as well. Really looks like a quality load when disassembled. I shot dove with them and my Fox in the late season last year. Great fun.

Obviously you never shot at the Grand or any other big shoot. And, I do shoot handicap when I shoot trap as most people do from time to time. But like I said, shooting with a smaller load is OK for funzies, but when you need to get serious, you had better get some shot in those hulls or you will be just throwing your money away. I do shoot skeet now with a 1 oz. load with #8 1/2 or #9 shot when I practice. But even at skeet, when I want to get serious, I'll go to a 1 1/8 oz. load. Sounds like someone is trying to tell me that I have a better chance of breaking targets with 220-250 less pellets per round. Hmmmmmm. Not hardly. Good luck.

Jimmy,

Hey!

Whatever works for you!

It would still seem, however, that a preference for "heavier" loads may have more to do with psychology than it does with ballistics. Heavier shot charges might occasionally "grind 'em finer" but it is less certain how many more hits or breaks that they might (that word, again!) contribute to under all but the most severe American trap and Skeet conditions.

RST will be at the Vintage Cup this weekend, a good chance to give their 3/4 oz loads a try on the wobble trap.

I just received the lastest copy of the UK's Shooting Times magazine. Among its annual sporting awards winners is Hull's CompX 21 gram (3/4 oz) cartridge for sporting clays cartridge of the year.

If throwing 200-250 more pieces of shot at a target is only psychological, that's the route I'll go.

Unless I'm mistaken, Jimmy's idea of serious would be even less than 1/2% improvement in score. If Jimmy doesn't fatigue from shooting the heavier shot charge, he will most likely see such improvement, as borne out by differences between 12 gauge and 20 gauge skeet scores.

I will e returning to the the NE SXS shoot at Hausman's Hidden Hollow next week. I look forward to giving those 3/4 oz RST's another try.

http://hiddenhollowsportingclays.com/

As mentioned before, it is very easy to over choke high speed loads (regardless of size). Check out steel load chokes jist fer instance.

I have been using 7/8oz for years with a load right outta the book. Red Dot, CB SO4, Rem hull. I let the crimp seat the wad. The load has never missed on breaking a target.

International competitions clearly show that killing ability is not a question with the 24gm loads. As for the mind set ...........?
I still drop in the 1 1/4 oz on pigeons without a second thot.

WtS

I'll be looking for those 3/4 ounce empties at the Bo-Whoop station.

I'm looking foreward to seeing a DGM listed as champion on the sporting course with those 3/4 oz. loads. And the same with the Bo Whoppers. All the theory men will be whooping it up, square load, less shot damage with the setback and bore pounding, short shotstring, ect. Stay tuned for the post game report after the NE SXS.

A couple weeks ago I had an opportunity to shoot clays at three nice English clay courses: Bisley, West Kent, and the E.J. Churchill Shooting Grounds. I borrowed a friend's beautiful vintage Hodges sidelock side by side to shoot. Once again, I found the Hull 21 gram (3/4 oz) load to be a very good and popular load.

Part of the popularlity is that English cartridges seem to be priced by the amount of lead, with lighter loads being noticeably cheaper.

We tackled the Grouse Butt and a 50 yard high tower. The light loads did a great job. They didn't seem as soft as the RST 3/4 oz Falcons, but recoil was noticably light and you couldn't beat the price.

Sensitivity over the lead issue is also apparently pushing some clubs to encourage lighter loads. While over there I read and heard a lot about the looming battle in the UK over lead shoot. A government committee has been appointed to look into the lead shot issue, and major sporting organizations are wrestling with how to respond.

If lead is banned, less available or more costly, it could really put some UK clubs in a bind because many clubs have already banned steel target loads due to safety (riccochet) issues. At West Kent Shooting Grounds, there is a sign on the clubhouse door that steel loads are banned at the club due to it's proximity to a residential area.

Here is an interesting article on the ballistic performance of Hull Comp X 21 gram loads and some of the issues involved:

http://gunmart.net/accessories_review/hu...utm_campaign=rl

In looking at the gunmart article DGM cited, it seems to me that the shell crimp is particularly deep and the taper very pronounced. This should increase pressure and help with inconsistent burns with such a light load. I think I should go readjust my MEC. Been shooting 3/4 oz loads for a couple of years to try to stem a flinch and minimize ammo cost. Usually works great, but I do sometimes have a weak sounding report. I suspect some of the older hull are just not holding a strong enough crimp.

Must say that in the full choked Cashmore 3/4 of 8's has broken some targets that were way out there, however, I do take along some 7/8 of 71/2's in competition.

I shoot regularly here in the UK with Eley Hawks 21g First cartridge and find it a superb cartridge in my Reilly hammergun. The Reilly is not a particularly light 12 bore, but I just prefer the lighter load and lessened recoil when shooting clays, especially rounds of 50+. If I can't shoot with these, I use a RC 24g load of 7.5's - certainly not heavier than this.

DGM - the lead shot debate is certainly a concern, and although the main shooting organisation here, the BASC, has come in for criticism for what is seen as a concillatory stance on the issue, I would far rather have them at the debating table than outside it, unable to influence the discussions. It behoves all shooting folk here in the UK to communicate their own point of view on this as well to support BASC - with a more immediate concern and focus being arguably the Govt firearms review later this month which comes hot on the tradgedy of Cumbria.

I am setting up a press for 3/4oz, 12 ga, 2 1/2 inch cartridges. After reading this thread, "What is the OTC wad that comes closest to the RST shotcup wad?"
The RST's are great shells, but I enjoy reloading.

I need low pressure, 1100-1200 fps loads.

I have been buying B&P Sub-sound loads. They are 2 5/8" long and carry 7/8 oz (or 1oz if you choose) of shot at 1100 fps. I have used them on quail, sporting clays, trap, and skeet. I am just a weekend shooter but I haven't notice a difference in my scores. The recoil is almost non-existent (less than any of my 20ga SXSs) and they seem to bust birds and clays just fine.


PLUS, at $79/case, they are cheaper than any other low recoil load out there. And shipping is free!

http://bandpusa.com/competition/f2-sub-sound-125.html

Adam

While I support everyone's right to choose to shoot light (or, extremely light, in Chuck's case) loads at targets, there is no arguing with results, or data. As for results, I have no doubt that 3/4 oz. loads will break every target on a skeet range, we're talking 21 yds. here, but they won't break every target every time on a sporting clay tournament range, REGARDLESS OF THE CHOKE USED. As to the data, in last month's issue of SPORTING CLAYS magazine Tom Roster restated the results, and the conclusion drawn from those results, that he found in controlled testing. He stated that, if you want 100% certainty that you will break every edge on target at 40 yards that is centered with the load, you cannot achieve that with less than a 1 oz. load of 7 1/2's, out of a full choke. He shot many edge on clay birds at 40 yds. with a gun in a benchrest with 8's and 7 1/2's to come up with these results. Note that the targets were not spinning, which certainly lends to easier breaks from the centrifugal force helping to sling the target apart, but were sitting on a dowel. But, keep in mind that this was using a FULL CHOKED gun! I use .020" choke in both barrels in competition, and will use nothing less than 1 1/8 oz. in a tournament setting. If I choose to use 1 oz. loads in my BSS in a S x S only shoot (which is choked mod. and full) it is only because that particular gun is more manageable with lighter loads, which helps me get on the second bird of a true pair quicker. I get much harder breaks at all ranges with the 1 1/8 oz. loads than with lighter ones, and smoked targets translates into confidence, which is ultra important in competition.

I understand that we all shoot for enjoyment, and that we should shoot in the way that brings us the most enjoyment, and that competition certainly is not enjoyable for most shooters. For some that means featherweight guns and very light loads. But there can be no denying that, for some of us, an unbroken target that falls to the ground brings no enjoyment. The old well worn argument that light loads lead to more actual hits is hollow, it has no way of being proven. Besides, all of us are not recoil sensitive at the same level. What's more, the opposite is much more easily shown to be most likely true, by practice. How many of the top 10 percent of the shooters in registered sporting clay competition use less than 1 oz. loads? Few, if any. The vast majority are using 1 1/8 oz. (shudder the thought!) loads. If they could use lighter loads, which have less recoil, and break just as many or more birds, why wouldn't they be doing so?

If I choose to shoot 3/4 or 7/8 oz. loads, I will shoot them with tighter chokes, but I will accept the fact that I will lose a 35 plus yd. bird occasionally that gets hit well by the center portion of my pattern but is not going to break.

I shoot for fun, too. But, dust off a target, or a target that I know I shot well that flies on unbroken is no fun for me and leads to a lack of confidence. Smoked targets, and "dishrag dead" birds are fun.

Stan

You guys in GB are in deep doodoo what with the power of the anti's. And it seems like the BSAC is with them. Steel got in the door here because all of the organizations sat on their hands and did not demand REAL scientific evidence to support the ban. Opinion and make-believe science got the ban in place. Of course I know that asking for a scientific study from a gov will only get ones supplied for free and guess who will be ready and willing to pony up those babies?
Best of luck - you're gonna need it

Dr.WtS

Stan - I read that article and it confirmed my belief that for me, for now, light loads are better for competition. The target setters around here rarely have an edge-on target at 40 yards, preferring to get you with change ups in target speeds, odd transitions, and weird flight paths. At most 10% of targets are as hard to break as unmoving, edge-on at 40. So if I shoot 20 tournaments, 2000 targets, 200 are in this category. Roster says I might drop 1-3% of these when I'm on them (I'd be using full choke and 7/8 of 71/2's on these presentations). If I'm shooting better than usual I'll be on 75% of the 200 long shots, so using 2% 'load failures', I'm losing 3 hits per season. Meanwhile I'm dropping dozens to flinches and hundreds to gaps in my technique and skill and mental abilities.
For now, I think light loads and full chokes are helping me work on my weakest areas.

One ounce loads are mandated for FITASC...King George just broke 197/200 at the Worlds, so they're certainly sufficient for mere mortals shooting sporting clays. And 7/8 ounce loads (of appropriate speed) represent a clear, and perhaps useful, reduction in recoil. Beyond that, I believe there is no demonstrable justification for a lesser payload in sporting clays competition. But, to each his own.

However, it seems counterintuitive that a full choke would be helpful in overcoming "hundreds" of lost targets due to gaps in technique and skill.

when it comes to 12bri would not go below 7/8oz even in 2" shell case. what is the point of shooting old 20ga charge from 12ga?

EverD, sounds like that is working great for you, and that is what matters. So much of competition is believing in what you are using, and having no doubts that it will absolutely do the job. If it's working for you, there's no need for you to change. I see a good many targets in the 60 yd. and over range at the shoots I go to, and many are edge on at the time they must be shot. I'm pretty serious about every target, having been on both sides of the results of coming up one bird short or ahead of the class leader. Have won my class several times at bigger shoots by one bird, sometimes a shoot-off.

What I don't understand, tho', about Digweed and his loads is, if he is so convinced that 1 oz. loads are all he needs, why doesn't he shoot them in sporting competition? He has to shoot the mandated FITASC loads, but when he has a choice, in sporting competition, he uses 1 1/8 oz. Or at least he did when I watched him shoot the Triple Classic here in Jawja. I picked up some of his empty hulls to check his loads. Still have one of them.

Maybe George thinks he'll hedge his bet with the 1 1/8 oz. loads and try to get that one extra bird out of 200 that might put him in HOA, instead of tied with someone for a shoot-off.

Come to think of it that sounds a lot like my reasoning for using them, too, huh? Guess I'm in pretty fair company, anyway.

I shot some more of those RST 3/4 oz 12 gauge loads at the Hausman's Great Northeast SXS shoot this weekend.

I shot the main event with some hot 1 oz loads through a Browning BSS, then reshot it for fun with a lighweight English sidelock and 3/4 oz RSTs. Broke 10 more targets out of 80 the second time.

Also shot with the two man flurry with a pair of 6.5 lb 12 gauge English sidelocks. Both of us shot 3/4 oz RST Falcons and turned in a score of 40 out of 50.

I keep thinking I need to shoot heavier guns and heavier loads, but those results seem pretty clear to me. Why not shoot the lighter load if it's more pleasant - and I get better results?

Didya win?

Why not just shoot a smaller gauge gun? There would be no problem with the reloads and it would be easy to find factory loads.
Pete