I picked up a Joseph Manton side-lock this weekend. A very nice gun
With beautiful wood. Do any of you know if any records for this well Known maker exist?.

Joe Manton was long gone by the time sidelock (assume you are speaking of a hammerless gun) guns came along. The odds are long that your gun was made in the trade at Birmingham and retailed with the Manton name - "Manton" held brand name value for many years. Photos would be very helpful in further identification. I'm not aware of the records of the Mantons, either of them, existing. However, we may be able to give you something of a trail with some id of the gun.

Lots of Belgium "Mantons" floating around.

There are no records that I am aware of. The Internet Gun Club may be able to help a bit:
archives@internetgunclub.com


Pete

Rocketman is correct in so far as Joseph Manton is concerned. However should your gun bear the name, Manton and Co; it is legitimate because this business was aquired as a going concern in 1846 by the Wallis family .The Wallis family conducted operations in both Calcutta and in London [from 116 Jermyn Street, London]. Records show that the London business continued into the early years of the 20th;century.As a matter of interest, Burrard, in his book, "The Modern Shotgun,Vol;1" plate 5, page 38, uses an illustration of a Manton & Co; sidelock ejector to name the different parts of the gun. I have always thought that Burrard,s choice of the Manton was to avoid upsetting the London trade of the day.

Thanks Roy: This gun is top Quality in Materials and workmanship.It is marked Manton &Co
It has been Nitro Proofed in London for 1 1/8 oz loads. ejectors, 30 inch barrels choked ic and full.There is a nice leather pad I will try to find a copy of the book you mentioned. It came from the collection of someone who was much better off then me. I couldn’t touch the Purdy or H&H.There is no gold anywhere and the locks are not hand detachable. Since the screws are not turned how do you keep the locks properly lubricated.

Any pics? I've seen sideocks marked Manton & Co. These guns were built in the 1980-90s.

The trademark used to be owned by a fellow in the London area and I think he was having guns made in the trade and putting the Manton name on them.

OWD

I have some pictures and will post them when i get home from travel. If I can figure out how to download them.

Is it the Manton sidelock that's for sale at Griffin and Howe ?

The pins are in the same position. Mine doesn’t have heavily sculpted fences. Also the wood on the one I have is better and is in better condition. It has the same type of leather pad. The engraving on the one I have is different but as good or better done. I gave about half of what they are asking.

Roy is correct. I have a Manton 450/400 that was built by Webley and sold through Manton's outlets in India in the 1920s. Nice quality gun like most of the Webley products.

Note that when it comes to Brit and Continental 12 bore SXS shot guns of the 1890-1960 period, the value is pretty well determined by Brand Value = 8 fold, Original Quality = 20 fold, and Current Condition = 20 fold. The Manton brand name falls into the Brand Value level three group. The Original Quality could range from best work(OQ1) to colonial/farmer (OQ9) grade. The Current Condition depends on use and care of the gun from manufacture to date (pristine is CC1 abd wall hanger is CC9). BV3 guns are usually valued at 2/3 the value of the seventeen BV2 makers and 1/2 the value of the four BV1 makers. Whatever OQ grade gun will then be about 1/2 the price of a similar grade gun with a BV1 name on it; CC level being equal. Lower BV level is where the bargain shooting of high grade guns is to be had.

The Manton at G & H is a Webley A & W Model sidelock.

Manton was known as the man who took Brit firearms mfg out of the blacksmith shops. Purdey was his first apprentice. Purdey started his own business in about 1814. Manton's problem is that he was enamored by the new caplock guns. He made them and some were not very effective causing him some lawsuits. He was also sued by copying some caplocks with patents by others. As a result, he went under and his great name was sold out to others...apparently time after time. His brother was also in the business. An original flintlock Manton would be the greatest toy I could imagine.

I have some pictures but have been unable to post them.can someone out there help

Rocketman:
Please email me at italianstallion@cox.net
Jim

Hello GMCS,

You can email me the pictures and I'll post them for you.
I have a dedicated email in my profile.

Best,

JC

I had a look inside the locks today. Their good quality but not a best gun. No jewelling or gold. similar to a Holland type lock with intercepting sears. and Holland style flat spring ejectors in the forend.
I do not think this a very old shotgun the stock had to be made on some sort of duplicating machine its too crisp at the inside edges. Engraving is not up to best gun quality but all in all its a pretty good gun. The forend catch has a crack in the solder. Gunter Pfrommer is going to get it squared away for me

GMCS -

The authoritative source for Manton serial numbers and dates are two books, written by W. Keith Neal and D.H.L. Back. They are: "The Mantons: Gunmakers," 1966, Walker and Company, Library of Congress No. 67-12527, and: "The Manton Supplement," 1978, The Scolar Press, Ltd., ISBN 0 900193 57 3.

Both books have been out of print for years. You may be able to find them through Inter-library Loan, however. They list all the known Manton guns (meaning known to the authors) at the time of publication, with a lot of other information, such as name of manufacturer, date of manufacture, serial number, gauge, style (single barrel, side by side, over-under), etc.

There were a number of legitimate "Manton" family companies, in addition to the spurious Mantons already mentioned, including one in Calcutta, India, believe it or not.

Hope this helps.

Bill

I saw the last 10 minutes of a Joseph Manton documentary on History International on Sunday morning, 11/15. the two high points were that Manton rarely had proofmarks on his guns (??!!), and that the British government stiffed him out of a contract for rifled artillery pieces, after he did all the experimenting and testing.
I'd like to see the rest of the program, but i haven't seen it listed in the next few days; anybody have any info on it?
sorry for the thread hijack.

Tom