I am blueing a set of SXS barrels with Laurel Mountain Forge barrel brown....I have done this B4 with nice results...

But this time Im having trouble?? I give the barrels about eight coats [4-6 hours per rust] with 5 minute boiling [distilled water changed every 2 boilings] and carding in between, and the barrels look great....wash them in washing soda, oil up with water displacing oil...and each time I rubbed the barrels with a clean oily rag more and more blue rubbed off; lite spots started to appear ....so I degrease the barrels again [carb cleaner] and put on 6 more coats....the barrels look great again, wash, oil...but same thing happens again when I wipe them with a clean oily rag......Im stumped..

Only thing different from the last time I rust blued a set of barrels is the boiling tank [made of welded sheet metal] is a little rusty...could the slightly rusty tank be doing something to the distilled water....could this be the problem...??...any help gratefully accepted..

If the rust is not penetrating (coming off), it sounds like your barrels were not clean enough (oil free) prior to your rusting process.....after your 320 or etching process did you clean real good with acetone and dry before the boiling--the type of carb cleaner could also be a problem, some leave a residue.....?.....I always clean with acetone......which removes any and all oil.......could also be weeping impurities out the weep holes in the bottom rib...?...Bottom line is 'clean and etched' is the problem if the rust blue/brown is wiping off with oil....IMO.......

Best of Luck.....

I would recommend brake cleaner instead of carb cleaner. Many carb cleaners leave a residue behind.

I would use TSP. (trisodium phosphate) I also agree that it could be that they were not oil free to start with also do not handle hot or warm barrels with rubber or laytex gloves. They give off an oil.

Rusty tank is not the problem. Mine looks like hell too.

If as everyone is saying the barrels havn't been degreased well enough. I don't think after 8 coats the first time and then 6 again the next, that your barrels will come out looking great. If they arn't properly cleaned and degreased i can never get a consistent blue. You should know right away, that something isn't right.

That said, i don't have a clue to why your blue is rubbing off.

Laurel Mountain Forge says right in the instructions that oil on the barrels is no problem...and that you can handle the barrels bare handed between brownings...I degrease them any how and wear cotton gloves when handling the barrels....in fact the instructions say to sand the barrels wipe them off to remove sanding dust and apply rusting solution...no degreasing necessary.
I am much more carefull than that in my handling....
I blued two sets of sterlingworth barrels and a model 12 winchester solid rib barrel useing the same method last year and they all turned out fine ...

The way I see it, if you have any trace oil, anywhere, there might be a problem, regardless of what Laurel Mtn. says. I don't use acetone, lacquer thinner or other petro chemicals for final degreasing, if there's any oil present you're just thinning it. Hot water and dish soap first (2x), hot rinse. Boil in TSP solution, boiling water rinse (2x). Final degrease with undiluted Simple Green, boiling water again 2x. Might be overkill, but I've never had a problem from residual oils with this method. They way I see it, there's no such thing as too clean. Clean, oil free cotton gloves are a must.

I wonder if it is the steel itself that is not taking the blueing? What make gun are they from? It seems to me that if oil was present somewhere in the boil that your barrels would not come out looking as good as you say. Have you let the barrels stand and "cure" for a while after the last boil?

Laurel Mountain has a detergent in it to help degrease,but I would not count on it. The carb cleaner is a light hydrocarbon and leaves some residue. I always degrease with hot water and a detergent on a rught sponge and follow up with a toothbrush and
comet type cleaner.I believe the problem is a light hydrocarbon
layer not allowing sufficient penetration of the blueing soln.

I’ll use carb cleaner or brake clean for initial cleaning ie.. removing of any machining fluids, old grease oils etc. For final cleaning just prior to rust bluing I’ll scrub well with Greased Lightning .

Don’t think your problem is because of oils, you may want to allow your parts to rust a bit longer, different steels rust differently. I know with Winchester NI steel barrels I need to let them rust overnight. Also keep in mind that the WX has a lot to do with it, higher heat & humidity = quicker rusting. Colder temps generally means less humidity..


Just a thought

Mike Hunter

I always let them rust for 24 hrs. I have about 50% humidity in my workshop. If I need more I hang them in my crawl space in the basement.

I use brake cleaner liberally, particularly in the weep hole in the barrel rib and other spots oil can hide.

I can think of two possibilites besides the residue: 1) You may be running your swab dry or you may be swabing back and forth. Laurel Mtn. is usually very forgiving, but I also know the back and forth swabing will leave the barrels "streaky"...learned the hard way! 2) Leave it on longer with a light and pan of water if you do not have a humidity box or hang it the shower stall with a pan of water and light.

Good luck!

I've used Laurel Mtn Forge for many rust blue jobs on all kinds of firearms and have never had a problem except for one particular Nazi P-38 frame. It simply would not blue well. The edges would not hold the blue and basically became nearly bare while carding the balance of the frame with 4/0 steel wool. Repeated attemps did no good and I finally had to accept the fact. The slide and barrel of the same gun came out beautifully blued with 100% coverage. Have no idea what was different about the frame.

Anyway, I always degrease with brake cleaner and barehand the parts while carding with no problems on any kind of steel from antique low carbon to modern chrome-moly. For me, the detergent in LMF works very well.

OB

One extra step I do is to degrease with acetone, then heat the barrels until all of the condensation dries ( as you warm the barrels with a torch, condensation will form). Then, with clean sand paper, and rubber gloves, I resand the surfaces and re wipe down with acetone. In humid climates, steel will absorb a suprising amount of water. That means it is porus and will also hold trace amounts of oil. Maybe it will help.

I scrub with lye and boiling water and rinse well with boiling water after solvent washing. Another thought... what is the "water displacing oil" you are using? Many water displacing penetrating miracle oils actually loosen and remove rust. And blueing is, of course, a form of rust.

I boil in Dicroclean 909 from Brownell's 24# for no a lot, but $20 Haz Mat fee. One cup per 4gal of rainwater for 15 minutes, rinse with rainwater & you're ready to go. 4 gal mixture will usually do 5-6 sets of barrels. I throw it out after that. I had a set go brown on me and decided whatever life the degreaser had left in it wasn't worth the time / trouble of starting over.

I used acetone for a while, but found streaking from the residue left behind.

90% sure that's your problem.

You need to make sure you have prepped the barrels properly what condition is the metal in? what grades of emery are you using? you also need to be very thorough with degreasing, the two most important stages, prep and degreasing.

Gentlemen;
Thanks for all your help and opinions....I am going to let them sit for a while [sick of them 4 now]....then give it another go in a few weeks...

gunut, oil good before you put them away!