I have recently bought an Aya over/under Merkel 303 clone and I am not sure when it was made. I have contacted Aya but they couldn't help me. Perhaps someone here will be able to?
The serial number is 182.
Images of the markings:
http://forum.robsoft.nu/album_pic.php?pic_id=4609 http://forum.robsoft.nu/album_pic.php?pic_id=4610 http://forum.robsoft.nu/album_pic.php?pic_id=4611
None of those marks indicate a date of manufacture. You need to look for an alpha numeric (A1, D2, etc). It might be hard to see and/or look like an afterthought. Once found, refer to this chart.
http://star-firearms.com/firearms/proof.shtmlPete
That date code chart says not to use it except for pistols made by Star. I think that means it won't work for an AyA shotgun. I have not compared it line for line, for all I know it could be exactly the same as the correct chart that is published in Terry Weiland's "Spanish best" and in other places as well. The caution to only use it for Star pistols caught my attention, at any rate. The procedure mentioned is certainly sound. Find the date code stamped generally on the barrel flats. If you do not have access to the book Spanish Best, post your findings here and I'll look it up for you.
Sorry, I can't find any more markings, except 18.5 choke and 1500 grams (probably the weigt of the barrels). And where are the barrel flats on an over/under? The first and the second picture in my previous post are the markings found just above the lumps on either side of the barrels. I have not removed the two wooden bits of the forend that are attached to the barrels, I do not have the right turnscrew.
If the gun has no date codes, and if AyA says they cannot date it by serial number (they have dated and identified some for me by serial number alone) then you may have an everlasting mystery. Enjoy the gun, maybe some day you'll see another gun with a close serial number that can help date yours. It surely is a high grade gun and well worth the $$ figure you posted earlier.
I have one just like yours (AyA Model 37 Super A) The date of manufacture of your gun is between 1960 and 1965. Reference:
http://www.guntex.dk/index.php?id=6&produktet=0205020&aktivkat=1 I will look tonight at mine and let you know exactly where the date codes are located. They are not easy to find, and are not stamped in very deep. I will also post dates of manufacture and get back to you tomorrow on this thread. You can see a photo and specs of your gun at this address. Check on the "Super". The "Augusta" is their top model of O/U and runs about 35K - 40K.
http://www.aya-fineguns.com/ingles/modelos/superpuestas.htm Jim Haynes
Guys, thanks for taking your time to help me with my problem. And Jim, I am looking forward to the info on where to find the dating marks.
But Jim, I think you misread my thread, the serial number on my gun is not 182.XXX, it's just 182, and I am a little bit confused about such a low number. I mean they have made over 600.000 guns!! According to the guntex.dk chart it was made between 1945-1948, maybe it's true, but it "feels" younger than that. On the other hand it has got 2 3/4-inch chambers and is only proofed to 900 bars and not 1250, so that may indicate that it's that old. By the way, that's why I got it that cheap ($1100). Lead shots are about to be banned here in Sweden (it's not decided yet) and the seller (the largest gun store in Sweden) thought that he couldn't sell an over/under not suitable for steel shots.
Part of the confusion over Spanish date of proof codes is the complication that arises over whether the proof house used the Spanish letters rr and ll in the codes. Does anyone have any information on that? All I heard was that there was some question about it, but if they didn't use one or more of these letters, it throws the whole date code system off a few years (because each letter has been used several times with a numeral change like F1 and F2, etc). I suppose this is only important to us nuts, but if a gun were being sent to a C&R license instead of an FFL on the basis of a wrong reading of the date code, the feds might could get interested....
Here's the link I was looking for when posting earlier.
http://personales.jet.es/rafa/b_punzones_eibar_fecha.htmlPete
That link to a different listing of date codes agrees with the list published in Weiland's book. I would suppose it's the legit table to use.
Cloffe, this from a Booklet AyA sent me when I ordered some spares.
It is called "Spanish Treasure" by Terry Wieland and has an introduction
by Michael McIntosh:
Serial numbers.
"The numbers assigned since 1945 are:
1945 to 1948 ---- 0001 to 19,999....
1994 -----602,423 to 602,642"
The serial numbering changes starting 1995; they are in the form of
16-03-001-95 to 16-03-800-95
You can see from this that they have made over 600,000 guns.
Date codes.
The list from the "personales" website is the same as the one published
in the referred booklet. When the Banco de Pruebas de Eibar starts using
a letter and number (1956-A1) they do not use "LL" or "RR" but they do use
an N with ~ on top. So A1 is 1956 and Z1 is 1980. Then A2 is 1981 and S2 is 2000
There is a note that says that the codes from 1995 onward were assigned
but never used (?).
JC(AL)
P.S. On all the Spanish guns I have (4) the date codes are on the barrels.
Thanks JayCee. So if I don't find any date codes under the wooden bits on the barrels, then I have to assume that it was made in circa 1945?
The table in 9mmlargo.com that I have referred to in the past is identical except that it shows that LL was only used once, not twice (as LL1) as in the link above. That puts my reckoning one year off after K1. Not a big problem unless someone gets persnicketty about what is or isn't a legit "curio and relic".
I checked my Model 37 last night to find the location of the date stamp. After removing the barrels from the action and removing the upper left forearm piece, you must fully extend the ejector on the left side. The date stamp is on the barrel, hidden under the ejector slide when ejector is closed. Mine shows "L1", indicating 1966 date of manufacture. Us the list in Terry Weiland's "Spanish Best", 2nd edition or the list posted above.
I saw the pictures of your gun posted on another thread on this BBS, and I believe (really stretching my momery now), based on your engraving pattern, it is probably pre-1950's. About that time, AyA stopped using the Merkel Model 303 pattern and went to wildlife scenes. I remember seeing both engraving patterns when I was stationed in Turkey and would go to live pigeon shoots in Seville, Spain and Rimini, Italy in early 1960's. The AyA model 37 was a very popular O/U in pigeon shoots at that time.
Also, check to see if your bsarrels are marked "Bellota" on the right rear of the upper barrel. In English translation from the Spanish, it will be marked, "Barrels Chrome-Nickel Bellota". They may not be, because as I understand, for a while after WWII, this extra grade steel was not available. I don't know just when, but I believe it was not available until mid-or late 1950s. Both my AyA Model 56's, one 1961 and the other 1969 manufacture and my Model 37, 1966, are so marked.
Also the under side of the upper forearm wood is marked with the gun serial number. Jim Haynes
Thanks Jim, the info on engravings and the popularity of the gun in pigeon shooting is very interesting.
I have checked my gun once more but I am sad to say that I can't find any dating marks. On the other hand the barrels are indeed marked "Cañones Chromo-Niquel" and "-Bellota-", so that's a good thing.
I didn't know anything about spanish guns until I saw this gun at the gun store. Sure I had seen a couple of Aya no 2's but I never gave them much notice because my interest (until now) have laid solely on british side-by-side shotguns, and especially hammer guns. If someone had told me a few months ago that AyA and Merkel over/unders where fantastic, I would have shook my head and thought of him as an idiot. However, the looks, the balance and the quality of craftmanship this gun posesses hit me right in the face. I had to buy it, and now I am beginning to love it!
Merry Christmas!!
I know you will enjoy the gun. It is quite expensive to buy a new one these days, and as you have found out, it is a very high quality firearm.
Back to the dating code, on mine, the "L1" date code, located under the forward end of the left ejector slide, is very shallowly impressed. On one of my model 56s, it is almost polished out. It appears that the date stamp is placed early in the barrel manufacture. You may want to check under both the upper forearm wooden parts, right side as well as the left (you will have to remove the screws to do this) and maybe even remove the ejectors so that you can see the entire barrel surface under the ejector slide arms. I can't believe that AyA would put out a gun without a date stamp.
Anyway, enjoy your AyA. I certainly enjoy mine. Jim Haynes
What player to choose for a gift? Has found in a network of clause(article) with the description of some marks. What in your opinion is better?
changer alpine cd changer 200 cd changer cd changer 5 disc cd changer Im at a loss!
CDchanger, you are indeed at a "lost"!!!
JC(AL)