On today's Hunting With Hank, as I mentioned in another post today, this show starts the season-year 2000. Dez Young is using a Beretta. I looked ahead on the shows I had taped and in the show coming up tomorrow entitled "California Pheasants", he uses a Beretta again. (For those of you who get the show on OLN). But when it gets to Chapter Three- he shoots a pheasant and it goes down into the trees. When he reloads, it shows a very clear shot of him loading the gun and you can see very clearly, he takes his left thumb and HOLDS THE LEVER OVER as he closes the gun!!! For those of you who have bragged on how he closes his guns for the past few weeks, I hope you aren't going to change your stories and say now he does it wrong. WAY TO GO DEZ !!! YOU DA MAN!!!! Now this is the way to close a shotgun, guys. Take notice please.

you mean you don't just flip it closed with one hand?

Just close the friggin` thing.
don`t slam it,use just enuf force to ensure proper lockup.

Yoby is right. You don't hold the lever. That's a bunch of BS. Just close it and let the locking mechanism do its job.

OWD

I like to do it the way Dez does in tomorrow's show. It is a lot easier on them in my opinion. I am gentle with my guns when it comes to "metal against metal." I'll have to ask him if Beretta pointed this out to him the way they did to me a few years ago.

maybe if you cut those barrels to 20" they would flip shut easier.

Hold the lever while you close the gun?!

What on earth for?

The reason that snap-actions took over from inert actions in the 1870s is because they were easier and faster to operate - because you did not have to mess around with the lever when closing it.

If you like manually operating a lever, you'd like my Jones underlever-operated Thompson and my Adams inert push-forward underlever by Robert Adams. These require manipulation of the lever on closing because they lack a spring to return it for you.

Still, if it makes you happy it's OK. Some people put plastic covers on leather car seats.No need for it but up to them I guess.

I would take the view that holding a top lever whilst closing the gun will accelerate wear - not delay it.

Reason being if the top lever is not allowed to snap back shut, then the gun may not have locked properly, and tiny amounts of movement may take place when the gun is fired thus causing accelerated wear.

If the lever is not allowed to snap back into place, how can it be seated properly - it can't, the spring and "wedge shape" of the bolt(or conical if a Beretta) bearing down on the lumps is there for a purpose to ensure a solid "tapered" lock up. Holding and allowing the top lever to just go back into place prevents this preocess happening.

Each to their own, you make your choice, I know what mine would be.

Jonty

At the gun club the other day we were talking about guns and TV.
Fellow told of a friend years ago that used to watch Matt Dillion...seems this fellow watched it religiously.
He liked to put his cowbOy rig on and quick drawed with Matt at the begining of the show.
He finally out drew him one small problem the day he did his gun was loaded.....bOOm.

That's what tOO much TV can do to you Jimmy.

One day you are going to be watching Hank sitting around sip'n on a cold one just open'n and ease'n the Berreta.....bOOm.

I guess what they're telling you might be okay for a Berretta but not for a fine double.
L.F.

I have been following the past posts on the right way to close your double. It seems that most to all do not let the action snap hard in closing. I have to agree somewhat that you should let the action close easily, but I agree with Jonty that is has to lock properly. I tried closing a Syracuse Arms double circa 1902 by holding my thumb along side the lever and let it close gently. Well it closed, but it did not let the gun cock. So in my opinion, I will close all my doubles gently and not snap them closed.

Holding the lever is part of NSSA skeet shooters ritual,from what I`ve seen a few of them do it.
Kind of like the pitcher adjusting his cap and grabbing his jockstrap before a pitch.
Now why do any of this on a Perazzi that was made to digest hundreds of thousands rounds?

Being an (ex) university professor, I naturally have a literary bent. On this topic, I quote Michael McIntosh (_Best Guns_, 264-265):

"... you can wear out a bolting system [of a shotgun] without ever firing a shot; all you have to do is close it shut enough times. Unfortunately, one of the greatest myths among the misinformed is that you can judge the quality of a gun by how resoundingly it clangs shut when you slam the barrels up. All it really proves is that there's a powerful spring behind the bolt. The stronger the spring, the less slamming it takes to erode the bearing surfaces and produce a poor old gun that rattles like a bad set of teeth.

The proper way to close a break-action gun is to hold the top latch with your right thumb, close the action and "ease" the latch over until the bolt takes hold. With a bit of practice, it can be done quickly and smoothly, and it won't slow you down in even the busiest shooting. But you seldom see anyone doing it, and that's why you need to look for worn out bolts in a gun you might want to buy."

I have read most of McIntosh's books, and I have found him to be the epitome of common sense in all but a few issues. I, for one, would not want to second-quess him on how to treat a shotgun. Obviously, Dez' technique is a variation on this theme.

The double underbolted top lever snap action gun has the following features; The rear of the front bolt below the bolt notch has a decreasing radius so as the gun opens the lever comes back to center. Pressure on this bolt helps to hold the bbls in the open position for loading. As the bbls are closed the bolt is pushed back, moving the top lever to the right, until it comes to the notch, at which point it "Snaps" into the bolting notch. This is the way they were designed more than 100 yrs ago & were not meant for the lever to be held. This system is far & away the most common bolting method on both British & Continental guns. It is virtually unseen on American built guns. The vast majority of American built guns have the hold-over trip for the top lever which does not return to center until the bbls are closed. There is however still no reason for holding the lever. "Don't" "Slam" the gun shut, just close it in a manner to insure the bbls seat firmly against breech & let the bolt/s go home of their on accord. This is the way they were designed to operate.
Miller

The hinge wears almost entirely as a function of movement of the bearing surfaces during opening and closing of the action. Violent TV-style opening and closing is undoubtedly rough on the hinge. The manner in which the opening lever is moved to closure (pushed, snapped, or eased) has nothing to do with wear at the hinge because the action is closed.

Similarly, violent closure of the action likely has no effect on bolting wear as it is still accomplished by spring tension. Letting the lever go under it's own spring tension hardly constitutes abuse. The tension of the spring provides for consistent mating of bolting surfaces. This tension ensures no further motion on firing.

I open and close actions (movement at hinge) gently. I do not hinder or assist the lever on closing.

Sam

The "Proper way to close a shotgun" argument is only seen and heard in the US.

As our English friends (among others) have pointed out, Mr. McIntosh is clearly wrong, as is Dez, or anyone else who doesn't allow the snap part of a snap action to complete the wedge aspect of it's locking function.

Why is it, that something that takes so little actual common sense to realize, is completely out of the grasp of so many?
Best,
Ted

Let me add one thing to this discussion. I just looked at my Beretta 470 manual and it states "do not hold the top leaver while closing".

But what does Beretta know?

The missing factor here is common sense. I have shown JW all the Browning manuals(Superposed, Citori and BSS, where it specifically states to "not hold the top lever while closing". To "let it snap into place".
He has finally found ONE episode, out of hundreds, where Dez retards his shotgun's lever and is ignoring all the others where he closes it gently, but without retarding the lever, and is trying to get someone to say he's correct. Bull-headed doesn't even come close. :p JL

Jim I think you hit the nail on the head in your post in there where you said something about "retarding".

Hey!! Don't blame me!! Someone ask a long time ago what is the proper way to close a double with a lever and I only gave references of who told me or what I read or saw. And I told how I closed my guns. Larry Potterfield, Michael McIntosh, the smiths and sales reps from, Beretta, Browning, Perazzi, Kreighoff--- the smith at Beretta literally took my 686 from my hands opened it, held the lever over, closed it and then released the lever. I have never seen any such books from (my) Berettas or anyone else to say any different so don't give me any horsedroppings about showing me something. All along I heard that Dez Young closes his guns properly and then when I show you a close up of him closing it properly, uh-oh, all of a sudden he's wrong. HA-HA. I had to laugh when I saw that. I have watched him on several occassions closing his gun like this. Sorry. Now all of these people against.....hmmmmm.... how did you put it joe?....... Retardings? I'll do like they say and use them as a reference whenever I'm asked. Sorry about your luck. LOL.

And Ted, Beretta, Perazzi, Kreighoff- these are hardly American gunmakers/ gunsmiths. They showed me personally. Not through some vague pamphlet printed by who knows what?

All this about how to close a gun??? Wow!

Yea, we go through this all the time. And I get a kick out of it. Everytime they tell me someone closes his gun properly and I should do as they say and I'm (how was that?) retarded if I don't. Then I show them the guy they're talking about closes the gun just as I do and then, uh-oh, well, they're an idiot too. Jim keeps telling me "HE'S SHOWN ME" what something says in a book. Funny, how does he do that over the internet? I haven't ever seen anything from him in any book. I have Beretta books too. They don't say that. Jim bragged on Dez Young for weeks and come to find out- I close my guns the same way Dez does. Uh-oh, all of a sudden he's wrong. He's a retard. HA-HA. Once again, I merely tell and show people (with proof of course) what knowledgeable people say and that's my opinion and my choice on how to close my guns. I have been hunting and shooting for 40 years and shoot many thousands of rounds a year and have never had a gun break other than a bead (2)breaking off while shooting. I must be doing something right the way I take care of a gun. Why is that? Because I do what the proper people say to do? Hmmmm......

I'll be glad when you finally learn to close one...so we can close this non-sense post.
L.F.

Yep, something has been retarded here for sure.
-------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I can't stand it any more- I just have to jump in with both feet (possibly in mouth!) This thread is always hilarious! I love to see you guys getting so excited!

When I look at someone's double, without intent to shoot, I treat it very gently, and usually try to close holding the lever... except on those guns that have the lever that centers itself after opening. This is to show respect for someone's property.

When shooting, I close my gun(s) firmly without holding the lever- this is how I was taught, many moons ago, by my father, Right or wrong, this is how I do it. And, when shooting someone else's double, I also just close it firmly- whether out of habit (forgetfulness) or what I can't exactly say...

Now, when I operate a trombone shotgun, I almost do the same thing. When examining someone's, or cleaning mine, etc., I operate the action slowly-when I am shooting, I must admit I SLAM that slide-action around- I believe this is how the gun was designed to operate. See what kind of jams one gets when operating pumps gently (yes, I realise this is apples and oranges).

Here's another thought- when shooting dangerous game, or even driven birds, how gently does oneself or one's gun bearer shut that (matched pair?) double?

Another unsolicited opinion,
Hap

Me too Hap. As I was reading the thread about Russ, I recalled how he didn't register for awhile after the BBS became civil. You guys remember the days this BBS was like Dodge City, with shots fired back and forth? Now that was funny.

I saw the episode when Dez closed the gun gently, but you forgot to mention he also sang a lullaby while doing it. Now THAT'S gentle!

The top lever has very little to do with it.

The top lever is there to OPEN a closed action.

The locking mechanism below the top lever is there to lock an action when it is closed.

Actually, those who know how to close a doublegun properly hold the barrels firmly, say stationary, in one hand and with the other hand holding the wrist of the stock, bring the stock up smoothly until the action snaps closed, and know why.

...so the grouse can get away, and he can tend to the burs on the dog when he gets home, instead of cooking?
Maybe I'll stick to my Darne, nobody will tell me how or how not to close that one!
Best,
Ted

Man...As a newcomer to this site, I'm surprised just how touchy folks are about this issue!

To paraphrase the immortal words of Rodney King: "Can't we all just close our guns the way we want?!"

Click on this link Jimmy: http://media.browning.com/pdf/om/superposedmanual.pdf
Look at page 9. You first have to go there and you then have to read it. This is what I have "shown" you before. You likely didn't read it. You're mind's made up and you don't want to learn anything. But you did have the opportunity. I'm done with your stupid rehashing of this topic. I might be talking to an idiot but you're not. JL

I wonder if I should start holding the button on my car doors in and then gently releasing them when the door is shut.

This whole post reminds me of an old saying....don't let the door hit you in the ...

I tend think of fine guns as women.

I think we need to find out how to close a Darne...should you slam her forward, ease it in or ram her home.
What's proper eti'cut for loading up a French girl.
L.F.

Close a Darne "briskly", with no hesitation. You can slam one closed in the heat of battle if you like with no worries-you can't strain a hinge pin that isn't there. The extractor plate is spring loaded and always cushions the breech closing to a degree. The design doesn't give the "wear gremlins" much to work with.
Best,
Ted

The introduction of the "snap" action was one of the great signal events in the development of the breechloading double gun, greeted as the greatest thing since nookie at the time. Indeed, as it's inert predecessors continued to be built in steadily declining numbers, they were often given return springs too (even the Jones) and thus became snap actions themselves. Had there been any need, real or imagined, for the snap action to be operated as an inert action (by returning the opening lever manually when closing the gun) the snap action would have been irrelevant, and all of today's double gun actions would be inert.

It should be operated as the inventors intended. Contrary dogma reflects a profound ignorance of the design.
-------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I think I'll go and cycle my Savage 110F bolt action .338 Whisper a couple times.

Actually Ted, I find I have to change the procedure a little between the R and V models. The V seems to slide closed no matter how one pushes it but the R needs a little downward pressure, at least by me. Of course the Charlin closed on verbal command.
Nial

LOL! I just laughed coffee out my nose!

There does indeed seem to be a little "clunk" in the middle of the closing stroke of an R, Nial, but, it is further and further reduced as the gun gets more use on it, to the point that the gun is eventually smooth as silk. Not quite as smooth as a V or a Charlin, but nice all the same.

My favorites are well used R guns, with lots of rounds and years on them. I mostly don't care for a V because of the "pop" when it opens. No defect that I can decern, just personal preference.

New ones, V and Rs, can be a bear. And, I have discovered that just playing with them, opening and closing, doesn't break them in-you have to go out and shoot them.

I owned a 16 gauge Charlin, the gun pictured in DGJ, and a good friend still does. I like them, but, I like the idea of an R a whole lot more, with the breech being locked by two different fasteners, to the barrels, when the gun is closed.
It isn't an accident that is the design used for rifles and slug guns.

True story. In the western metro area of the twin cities of Mpls and St. Paul, works a gunsmith. He is a very good Winchester/Remington/Mossberg/Knight gunsmith, if, you know what I mean. At a gunshow, he informed me that a Darne "was an unsafe design" and he didn't work on them. I asked him why he believed that to be true, and he produced from under the table the most beat with a ugly stick low grade Charlin I have ever seen, and informed me that "the damn thing opens up when you shoot it". I asked if he used low pressure ammunition, of the correct length for the chambers, to which he replied he didn't know. I also informed him it wasn't a Darne, it was a Charlin, and said so right on the opening key. His less than well thought out response was, "So? Whats the difference"?

When I tried to explain that a Darne and a Charlin are truly not the same, and that the Charlin couldn't open at the shot, but, might complain about the wrong ammunition being used in it by lifting the key a bit out of the trigger interrupter, I could see his eyes glazing over, and I realized I might as well have been at the beach at that point.

Did I ever tell you about my boat?

Best,
Ted

Uh, I realize this is dating myself a bit, BUT, in order to lock the doors on my 1967 Oldsmobile, you DO indeed have to hold in the buttons on the doors, and release them after the door is shut. GM cars were that way for most of the 1960s.

Why that seems so unusual is a mystery to me.
Best,
Ted

Phew!! Jim, you bragged and bragged on Dez Young and how he closed his guns and when I showed you how he closed them you got mad again. I close my gun exactly as he does. Take a look again. All these people tell and show you the proper way to do something and you call everyone idiots. Common sense tells you that holding a lever over keeps the closing of the gun from pushing the lever over and prevents more wear. Maybe not that much more, but it has to help some. So I will still close mine as the gunsmiths told me personally and that's that, guy. Calling the most reknown people in the gun world idiots only shows that you keep putting your foot in your mouth again. Sorry about your luck. As I said, it's a matter of choice and I'll hold the lever over when I close my shotguns and hold the button to close a handgun rather than just slapping them shut like you said you do. I like being a little more gentle than that...... And as far as closing a car door- when a car door is opened, the two jaw-like clamps on the door pop open and stay that way, then you shut the door, they snap back around the pin on the frame of the car. Some have one clamp and some have two clamps in the door. You might want to check this out the next time you open your car door, guys. Car doors have pretty much always been like this. Mainly to save wearing out the clamp on the door. Just like on a gun. IF you hold the lever over.

I knew a fellow once that had way toO much common sense....every since they changed the door handles on automobiles he has been locking his self out of his car.

Heck he's got so much common sense...he has even locked his self in his car....and had to call for help.
You know there's a key hole on the outside of the car door.

Well, Jimmy, since you are naming names...Kirk Merrington will tear you a new one if you fart around with the opening lever while closing a gun in front of him...Richard Levi, who builds some modest guns by the name of George Granger every year in St. Etienne will shake his head and mutter un-pretty things in French as he takes the gun away from you, if you try that. Oh, and as a point of reference, the people at the proof house there don't pussyfoot around when they proof test the completed gun either, they clunk them shut with a bit of authority. At least they did when I was there.
Quick question-Didn't you type the clamp "snaps" around the pin on the car door? Like, the way a snap action gun is supposed to "snap" into its final wedged closed position, before being fired?
Just curious. Car doors have always been 'sorta idiot proof, in that there is no way for someone to slow down or interfere with the snap of the jaw around the pin-it is independent of the button.


Maybe guns should be like that, too.


Best,
Ted

The only thing this eternally bothersome thread is missing is the Upper-Class Twit of the Year coda........
"I have no idea how a gun is closed (or opened for that matter). I've never looked back at my loader." :rolleyes:

Now, can we all go home?

Ah, come on, Leo-we 'slidy breech guys just 'gotta hurl insults and blow rasberries from the sidelines!
Best,
Ted

Just make sure it's closed before you shoot, ok. :rolleyes:

You boys might want to ponder this question: What is easier to fix/replace your gun, or your "eyeballs"? You know, there is "cloning and surgical reimplantation" involved.

Car doors DO work that way, Ted. As I said, look at the doorlatch on the back of your door when you open it. The two latches are held open until you close the door. Then they release and clamp around the post on the frame. (Take a screwdriver and slide it in there and watch them pop shut) Just like when you hold the lever over on a shotgun. They have made car doors this way for decades. Why? To reduce the wear of opening AND closing the latch when you open the door. It saves one cycle each time and saves wearing out the door latch. Guess what? The least amount of times you rub two pieces of metal together, the less wear you put on them. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. You might want to tell your buddies that when you see them.

It's too early for a drink...but I need one. lol

Homey, a "shot" of cognac a day keeps the cardiologist away!

Only if your are French!

The Browning Owner's manual( for BSS, Citori and Superosed) says this:
"Upon closing your gun, let the top lever snap into position-do not retard its action with your thumb.
If closed in this manner, the top lever spring will return the top lever mechanism to locked position. It is not necessary that the top lever return to a completely central position; in fact, it usually will not do so in a new gun". This is what Browning says. If someone representing Browning says otherwise, they're idiots. If you can't understand what the above says, you need some remedial reading training. JL

And from the Winchester Supreme manual:
Upon closing your gun, let the top lever snap into position-do not retard its action with your thumb.
If closed in this manner, the top lever spring will return the top lever mechanism to locked position. It is not necessary that the top lever return to a completely central position; in fact, it usually will not do so in a new gun.

It seems rather obvious to me the "Real Reason" for the mechanism of the car door is so one "Does Not Have to Hold the Button" in order to close it. Can you imagine trying to shut the door with two armloads of groceries if you had to hold the button in, in order for it to latch?? As previously mentioned the advise I have always read from "British Authorities" is to hold the bbls in left hand & lift stock with right hand, neither thumb can thus even reach the lever.
Miller

Michael McIntosh was quite proud of closing his double by holding it, muzzle down and raising the butt with the other hand, as 2-piper said. This is seen on the very nice tape of M.Mc. shooting with the late Jack Mitchell. Odd that he would then write that retarding the lever was "the correct way". As to what Dez Young did in one scene, on one show, is hardly his regular habit. The only reason I suggested watching how Dez duz it, at all, is because there are some who refuse to, or can't read and might be able to understand it better if it's on TV. Be sure to click the off button before the "singing" starts. JL

We have already discussed all of this, Jim. Holding the lever over is not "retarding" the lever. It is in fact helping it. Besides, I worked with engineers and repairmen for 30 years. I would much rather take the repairman's word as to why he had to repair something than the engineer's who tries to tell you why it SHOULD work in his books..... Who makes the most dependable guns of all time? Probably Smith and Wesson. Go to your gun safes and take one out. Open it up. Watch the release button. Did you notice that when you push it forward, it stays forward? Why is that? Figure it out. Why do most people who open a Colt revolver pull the release button back and help the movement. For those of you who have Rugers and you pull the pin out to remove the cylinder, when you put it back together do you just shove the pin through? Or do you push the button in and help the movement? It works either way. But some people know which is easier on a gun. If you only shoot a gun a few boxes a year, closing them up probably won't do much damage. But if you shoot several rounds a year and you close it up without the lever, someone will be repairing it much sooner. I just like being more gentle with a gun because I know the metal is brittle and/or it will last longer if you are more gentle with them. But, to each his own. From now on if someone comes on here and asks which is the best way, I'll let you guys say what you want. But my guns will go longer (in secrecy) without repair. You can bet on that.

HomelessjOe....DRINKS ARE ON ME!!!

As mentioned above, the 680 series Beretta guns have conical pins that engage holes in the barrel bolsters. As the gun is opened and closed over time the round holes become edge worn and begin to assume an oval shape. The bolsters are actually replaceable on the competition quality guns, but not on the lighter sporting models. I shot a tubed 682 in competion for a couple years and the condition of the breech face and those holes was thought to give a pretty good indication on how heavily a gun had been used. Although I never bothered with it, in the case of a Beretta O/U, there might be something to be said for closing the gun and then releasing the top latch.

So what is the proper way to close a pump, cause after reading this thread, I think I'll go back to pump guns for a while :rolleyes:

I'm gertting out my Autoamtic an shOot my dang foot off.

postoak, when you close the gun, made sure you don't grab it by the forearm and then jerk it in a downward motion causing the gun to drop downward and slam shut. This is a no-no, too.

I plan to use the English method, holding the Forearm steady in place and drawing the Butt rearward and then forward.

Should I hold the slide release, and gently release it after the bolt locks, to reduce wear?

Postoak; Don't know what type of pump you are shooting but on the few I have fooled with you would have to push the butt forward first, then draw it rearward to close. Remember if you hold the forearm steady the gun has to move in reverse to how you would move the forearm.
Miller

I'm glad I use a muzzleloader, don't have to close nutin!!!!

Will it hurt to trom'bone a pump ?

Mr Miller, I wasn't clear I was speaking of my Butt, not the Butt Stock. I am trying to reduce wear on my grommet.

You guys are making me paranoid. What's the protocol when examining someone else's gun? Should I ask - "Are you a sneaker or a snapper?" I hope he doesn't hit me.

For someone else's gun, be a sneaker. According to my Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Retard means "to slow up, esp by hindering advance or accomplishment: impede".
There was also a picture. Guess who? Hint: initials were JW.
JL :p

as i pointed out the last time this subject came up and the analogy was drawn with s&w revolvers, that analogy is STUPID and proves the counterpoint and also shows the person drawing that analogy has never really looked at the "bolting" on a s&w revolver. the plunger which serves as the axis around which the cylinder revolves is spring loaded to the REAR and rides against the frame 100% of the time when the cylinder is being swung out and back in and you can push the thumb latch till hell freezes over and that plunger will push against the frame forever, every single time. all the plunger does is disengage that pin from its recess in the frame and likewise disengage the corresponding frame mounted plunger from the fwd end of the ejector rod. for pete's sake, look at the rear inside of the frame; you can plainly see the drag mark on any s&w that's ever had the cylinder swung out more than once.

and no, it ain't necessarily true that everybody who owns colts pulls the thumb latch to the rear to close the cylinder. that's why it has a bevel on it.

and as to accelerating wear, exactly how can allowing a shotguns bolt to close under spring tension accelerate wear? it's the same 2 pieces of metal rubbing together over the same linear distance every single time whether you're holding the lever or not. spring loaded, thumb restrained, that locking bolt travels the same distance and is steel on steel every single time.

I'm all for getting up a subscription to buy Jimmy an underlever closer. If he keeps the wedge or "screw" well-greased, it won't suffer from all that manual shifting.

The analogy with locksets is a good one but I think the lock most comparable is found on interior and exterior doors. The "ramped" nose on the bolt which allows retracton when it contacts the inital radius of the strike plate is not the surface of the bolt which locks the door against the weather strip or stop. Wear on the ramp (or the upper chisel edge of an underbolt) doesn't really matter all that much as it's the underside of the bolt which locks the barrels down to the water table. The only locking mechanism which superficially resembles Jimmy's retard and sneak is the lever check found on a variety of guns with rotary and cross bolts which cannot be wedged or ramped back by a lead on their mating surface in the rib extension. Also found on Supers and Citoris and I have never understood exactly why? In all cases, self-release of the check rod, pin, or lever allows every one of these bolting designs to snap.

jack

I'll chip in to buy him a bolt action shotgun ?

Guess what, Jim. When I looked up "put my foot in my mouth" in the dictionary, YOUR picture was there. Or should I go back and bring up all the Dez Young posts you made? How was that? "In all the times I have watched Dez Young close his guns......." As I said, I will continue do close my guns the way the manufacturer's reps and gunsmiths have personally showed me. Dez Young, Michael McIntosh, etc.,etc. Sorry, guys, but I refuse to be a gun slammer. Keep on slammin'.

Why exactly do the gun trade refer to the type of gun we are describing as being 'snap actions'?

The answer is that they are designed to be 'snapped' shut and they close the bolt home (by means of aspring)as part of the movement involved in closing the gun.

I'm amazed that this thread has run to five pages but accept my part in that with yet another posting on the subject.

Most odd.

Makes you wonder doesn't it.

One last & final time Jimmy W, "Not One Single Person Posting Here has Recommended ""Slamming"" a Gun Shut". You seem to be totally unable or "Unwilling" to distinguise between slamming & letting a snap action work as the makers intended.
Miller

Rabbit is on to something but doesn't have it quite right. Just take up a collection so that Jimmy can get all of his snap actions converted to inert actions. All that needs to be done is remove the top lever springs, and he'll be happy.

None of the gunsmiths or reps at Beretta, Browning, Perazzi, or Krieghoff told him to do it that way. None of them are that stupid.
---------------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Jimmy - The weight of expert opinion and manufacturers' advice in their manuals is heavily against you. Not that Dez Young qualifies as expert, but how do you take an isolated example of him holding the toplever to outweigh the myriad times he snaps his gun closed? Jay

Wow 5 pages on how to close a shotgun... I did not know it was so scientific....

Snap it closed, If it's a decent gun, you won't wear it out, you son won't wear it out, your grandson won't wear it out, Your great grandson won't be allowed to own guns, so it won't matter if it's off face.MDC

I think it's great that this has gone to 5 pages! This is like being on a commitee!

I agree...Some people posting need to be commited

Hey, did they tell Nash Buckingham how to close his gun? No, they said Close it any way that pleases you, Nash, slam it, jam it, crack walnuts with it if you wish. We've chewed this cabbage three or four times in two months. LET IT GO.

jack

Switch over to "How To Open a Gun" and hijack the thread.. Should you push the lever and just let the barrels drop and bottom out or should you hold the barrels and just ease them down.. MDC

don`t matter, cause if it does this
its time to buy a new one

Lefever Arms Co catalog 1889; 1892 & 1913 catalogs say the gun "Can" be thrown open with one hand with no fear of harm, but do not use the term "Should".
This should be good for another 13 pages or so :p
Miller

I can't wait to see where this one goes! Now do you just swing your car door open or do you slowly open it with the button depressed?

I know. This is so neat. Pretty soon I'll be screaming- WHO DEY? WHO DEY?

Yes yes yes, but what about those of us who prefer to open and close our guns with one hand???

You know, jolting it open with the right hand while the other reaches for cartridges, and then swinging the barrels up to slam the thing shut!!! Looks good, frightens the opposition, and got to make sure that bolt engages proper - and a jolly good slam is the only way...

tongue in cheaky cheek of course!

Jonty

Those cOwboys might know something ?

Beretta O/U's release the lever when a small button in the breech face is touched by the flat end of the top barrel. The gun is about completely closed when the lever trips, so it does not drag the locking pins over the breech. Holding the top lever, closing the gun, and releasing the lever quickly would do about the same thing as letting it snap. Easing would be different, and I too have suspected it might not be locked sufficiently when eased.

I tend to ease when just looking at a gun and let it snap if it is going to be fired. Some new guns are so stiff they are hard to close w/o snapping.

That is true, Jim. Some of my Model 21s are still so tight that by looking at the lever you can tell that they aren't closed. Then you have no choice. When my Berettas were new, they were hard to close. That is why I went to the smiths and reps directly at the Grand American. A new gun loosens up after a while though. But when you release the lever if you do it the way Dez Young did it on last week's show, you shouldn't have any problems. He is so fast, sometimes you don't catch how he does it. I close mine a little slower and a little more pronounced. By coincidence, the American Rifleman show with Larry Potterfield, founder and owner of Midway USA was on again today and showed the proper way to open and close a double. The show should be on again Saturday at 9:30 pm on OLN.