Hi I'm new but the reason for me joining is because a have a shotgun that i cant find any information on. I know its french but that's about all. Its an Ideal sxs 12g. shotgun with a duel triggers and each trigger has its own guard. It also has a leather sling that comes out of the stock. Does anyone have any information on this shotgun??

Made by Manufrance, formerly that country's largest maker of shotguns. That particular style of trigger guard was called "lunettes"--like eyeglasses. The retractable sling is also typical. The Ideals are very good guns, but come in a number of different grades--from fairly plain to quite elaborate. But the quality is excellent on all of them.

I have one in 28 ga and it is a fun little gun. The retractible sling always amazes everyone.

As Larry said....quality is excellent. These "Ideals" are pretty amazing. Stallones says that the retractable sling always amazes everyone...I agree, but I would also like to point out a couple of other features that amaze most gun enthusiast. First would be the fitting of the rising bolt to the barrel extension, sometimes fitted so tight you don't even know its there unless someone shows you. Second, the two position forend fastner, turn the lever half way to remove the forend, turn it 180 degrees and you can remove the barrels with the forend still attached, plain and simple genius. Third, you can decock the gun with the action closed by pulling up the cocking lever and then pulling the triggers back, then releasing the opening/cocking lever, and then if you want.. recock it just by pulling up on the opening lever. The damn gun is just brilliant. Wish they made more of them and I wish someone would start making them again!

Dustin

Mine was actually a 24 gauge and I had Brileys chamber sleeve it to 28 ga. It is a serious bird killer with the (backbore) equivalent.

Hello Dustin,

I could not agree more, they are brilliant!
As you say, someone should start making them again.

JC

P.S.: Here is an interesting article on the Manufrance Idèal: The Lost Idèal. jc

The very great majority of "lunette" triggerguard Ideals are black powder proofed. If we could see a photo of the barrel flats, it would tell us exactly what level of proof was applied to the gun when it was built.
A gun with black powder proof can be used with low pressure ammunition.


Best,
Ted

Slings rot and break. You are fortunate to have the sling, disconnect and reel. I have the retract reel only.

jack

Another Ideal (pronounced Id-dee-AHL') junkie here. Mine is a 16 with the original retractable sling intact. I removed it and stored it to prevent damage. Mine is a low grade gun with no engraving, but I wouldn't trade it for anything--I absolutely LOVE it. The straight stock on mine appears to be rather rare, as most seem to be a swan-belly or pistol grip configuration. I have a search set up on gunbroker as I'm always trying to locate another. Enjoy your Ideal, my friend!! If you want more info, contact Kirby Hoyt at vintagedoubles.com, he's an Ideal buff as well. All the best... --jay

The gun also has an ambidextrous safety, which is a neat idea. However, the fact that forward is on safe and back is off--the exact opposite of your standard safety on a double--is not so good.

Larry, that's just typical reversed French thinking.

On early French airplanes you pulled the throttle back to increase engine rpm and pushed it forward to decrease rpm - exactly the opposite of the rest of the world.

The first Idèals did not have a safety, as you can carry them off battery and cock
them as you mount to shoot by pulling the under lever (which has a very light
pull btw). It does not take a lot of practice to use them like this and it is a lot
safer than trusting safeties that are really not safe (unless your gun has safety
sears, which the majority do not) because all they do is block the triggers.

JC

If you guys are in need of the retactable sling you can find an almost exact copy on a J C Higgins (Sears) model 30 .22cal semi-auto. I think it was made by High Standard. It might work on your missing or rotted slings. You can also make the spring from a old typewriter spring. I got that tip from Russ Ruppel.

. . . and other features not too numerous to mention but interesting: 3-position takedown lever on the forend; one of the positions (think at 12 O'clock) retains the forend on the lug. If you can't lay in down, you can't lose it. In addition to the "carry closed but cock on flush" which J.C. mentioned, the triggers can be held down on closing which will decock the linear strikers. You heard right; spring loaded round bar in boring in the frame carries an upright upon which the firing pins or strikers are located; very different from hammers which pivot on an axle. So that underlever is a busy little bee handling cocking as well as opening functions. And thanks for the tip of the m30 sling, gunny.

jack

More on Manufrance (Manufacture Francaise des Cycles et Armes). Oh man, Larry Brown will take me to task on the gender of an adjective or something but I'm taking the risk anyway. Like Iver Johnson a bicycle as well as gun fabricator. Produced more conventional double called the "Robust". Easy to spot as the barrels always look as if they've had a crude sleeving job. And for those who think the French are always facing the wrong direction, there is LeFaucheux who came up with the "velly Bwitish" break action gun. Then I suppose he laid around waiting for the Brits to eat his lunch, which they of course did.

jack

If you should, by an off chance have a firing spring break, pas de problem, the Idèal will go on working as usual. She will not let you down in the middle of the field.

JC

Simply my favorite gun period!

Sorry, Dustin, I didn't mean to repeat the content of your post which I apparently skipped over in my gushing enthusiasm.

jack

Its quite alright! I completely understand the gushiness and excitement one might have when discussing or thinking about the Ideal, its that cool of a gun! I really would LOVE to see the Ideal get resurrected by some resourceful company and get built to a high standard again. If more people knew about this gun...how it works, the design, the genious of it....it would absolutely blow their minds. I should never have sold the one I owned, but at least I know its in good hands.

Dustin

Dustin

I love mine, I have a 12 Ga. No6R, and I am always on the look out for more.

You did OK Rabbit . . . except you reversed the armes and the cycles. But no big deal.

The Robust is pretty much the Stevens 311 of French doubles--in terms of quantity, but much better quality. All have "fretted" barrels, but not all of them have the pronounced "step" where the barrels meet the chambers.

A picture....



JC

Just for you Dustin! It is not in my hands anymore. But it is in very good hands (family). I still get to shoot it whenever it is out and about. They are amazing guns. Anyone who see it is always in awe. I don't have to tell you how special this particular one is.

Bill G.
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