With the constant barrage of non-toxic ammo legislation that we're being threatened with I recon it's just a matter of time that we'll all have to spend two to three dollars per round of ammunition to keep my old doubles in the field. All of my doubles are old field grade guns so eventually I want to get a nice modern gun that will handle mid to smaller sizes of steel shot. I don't want a stoeger, a bss, or a cz. I really like the looks of the Weatherby doubles but I've never seen one in person. What else is there in the under $2000 range?

My requirements are
1. 12 ga.
2. Double triggers
3. No chunky beaver tail forends
4. No bulged muzzles like the choke tube equipped CZs have
5. No center ribs that look like an old sway backed horse like my Stevens 311 has. Man I hate that rib!

Three inch chambers would be nice but I could get along just fine with 2 3/4 inch chambers if need be. I don't care if the stock is straight or pistol gripped and I could live with extractors or ejectors just the same.

Does such an animal exist in my price range or will I have to spend more to get what I want?

Hi CD, boy for the requirements you want, this is a tough one. The price range you stated will kind of limit your choices. Most modern doubles in this price range will have SST/SNST, some kind of BTFE and if tubes will have that buldge.

One option is to either have one of your more "modern" older doubles tubed by Briley with their thin wall tubes (no buldge) that are rated for steel. If the shot size your using is on the smaller size you should be ok with regards to any rib seperation.

Or you can see what's on the used market in the way of a good Spanish or lesser known Italian maker and then have it tubed by Briley. The the cost of the gun and tubing would run you about 2k.

That's about all I can suggest. I hope someone else will come to the rescue for you here.

Anyway, best of luck to you in this most interesting search!

Greg

Good luck!

I've got 2 set aside for this, a Uggie SxS and an American Arms Waterfowler O/U, Uggie is a 3"er and the AA is a 3.5"er. Til then as long as I have a good stock of non tox for my favorite SxSs they'' stay in the safe.

Not brand new - but meets your requirements - SKB or Browning BSS.
I own one of each and they are just the ticket for steel shot.

Find a way to get your hands on the Weatherby.....

another vote for SKB, although I love my weatherby, it's a stacked gun. I like my SXS's.

Everthing in your price range would be a compromise, so therefore; I'd recommend you up your budget to the $3500-$4000 range and then seek out a 12-ga. Parker Reproduction DHE, 28" bbls., 3" chambers, IC/M, DT...they are out there---you'd never have to apologize to yourself for making the financial stretch. What a gun!

What Turkish company is making the Weatherbys now?

The Closeout Weatherby D'Italia Shotguns that CDNN is closing out are built by Fausti; they are in your budget and decent guns. Some do exhibit a slight belling at the muzzle over the choke tubes, not to the extent of the Huglus however.

Find an RBL. Used ones are starting to come into the market for more than $2,000.00 but you'll never regret buying it.

take a look at the pre remington imported baikal made guns, particularly the gun marketed in this country as the stevens 411. if choke tubes are not a requirement, and double triggers are a must, then the eaa imported guns are suitable for steel, so long as you open the chokes.

Hello
Would these be suitable to your needs?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=188113294

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=188506707

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=188855010

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=187585460

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=188601064

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=187319391

Some will need a bit of fixin, but the prices will allow for that.

Mike

Your choices would probably be limited to over and unders. The Weatherby built by Fausti are very good and there is always the Ruger Red Label. Try their Red Label in 28 gauge you'll be surprised how good they are!!

I just got a Beretta Silver Hawk- check those out.

Used V. Bernardelli Gamecock or Roma 3.

Thanks for all of the ideas guys. I think to make things easier I'll just have to open up to the idea of a.......single trigger, aint no way I'll carry a beavertailed gun though!

I know there are letter codes in the serial numbers of the SKB doubles that will let you know if the gun is ok for steel. Is there any way to tell on a used Spanish double?

I sure wish there was a shop in my area that carried Weatherby doubles. It'd sure be nice to handle one before buying one. But I guess it would be about the same as buying a gun online and hoping it feels good when it shows up. Decisions, decisions.

The following was copied from the Spanish Gun Forum on shotgunworld.com regarding steel shot in Spanish guns:

REGARDING STEEL SHOT: PLEASE READ BELOW

Before asking the question, you should be able to do the homework and decide whether you want to take the risk or not. The decision is yours alone to make. It is your gun, fingers and face.

Because of the multitude of questions regarding this subject, I have found and I am including a link to a document that explains very well if you can use steel shot in guns proofed for steel and not proofed for steel.

http://www.chircuprodimpex.ro/produse/a ... nition.pdf
http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/CA256F310024B ... oofing.pdf

Please read and digest it. Included in the document are chapters regarding HIGH PERFORMANCE and STANDARD PERFORMANCE loads. Shot size, shot charge weight, momentum generated and shot velocity are all factors.

In short, a high performance steel shot shell should only be used in guns with the steel shot proof mark, the Fleur de Lis.

Standard steel shot shells (meeting CIP standards, not SAAMI standards. Remember the guns were proofed to CIP standards) can be used in guns not proofed for steel shot if the following conditions are met:

Pressure as published for standard shells is not exceeded
A certain shot size is not exceeded
The choke is no greater than modified
The shot velocity is not exceeded
The Momentum generated is not exceeded

The numbers are in the attached document for 12 ga and 20 ga. You will need to do the math yourself.

Read more: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopi...f#ixzz0yn1pYTNZ

SKB is a good choice, especially a used one.

Have you looked at FABARMS? Classic Lion? Beta Classic?

The FABARMS would fit your needs. Double trigger, single triggers guns are out there, splinter forends, long or short barrels. They are probably the strongest doubles made today (read up on the locking system), they have excellent barrels, wood is usually much nicer than what you would find on guns in this price range and the used market is very forgiving price wise. I know people who have picked up virtually new Fabarms for around $1100 sometimes less. I owned one in the late 90's, it was a nice gun, sound design and well finished for the price.

Dustin

I'll put another plug in for Fabarms. I have a Beta Classis
with English and splinter. Barrels are rated for steel/no-tox. It's a great field gun.
Light and handy. It only comes with single trigger though.
The barrels also flare quite a bit at the muzzles because of the choke tubes.
Not perfect but very functional.
Regarding current new guns, I'm not sure I know of any that meet all your criteria.
The S&W can be had with double triggers and no tubes but only come in 20 gauge.
Not sure if you can get the Fausti DEA in 12 w/double triggers and fixed chokes,
but I'd research those a bit too.
Not sure I'd shoot steel through a Uggie/Aya/Arrieta/Garbi/Grulla...
Good luck searching,
-Jim

I had one, a Golden Lion, I think it was. Pretty good gun, but I didn't care for the phony side plates.

that italian gun with quad bolt locking and "tri-bore" was pretty good.

As more and more non-tox is required, prices will come down.

generally, guns made prior to 1990 are not suitable for hard steel shot, due to the probability of soft barrel steel, which may score and bulge if used with steel shot. also, steel shot patterns better with more open chokes, such as ic and mod, rather than the more traditional full and extra full, typically found in older pre 1990 made guns.

Thanks for pointing me twards the Fabarm doubles guys. Talk about nice looking doubles for a very reasonable price! I really like the Classic Lion English. Anybody know if they're they still in production? All I could find on the HK website was handguns and rifles.

Hi CD, one of my dedicated duck guns is a Fabarm Beta Classis. This gun has 28" bbls, SST and PG. The forend is a BT, but not an oversized one. It's a very good quality gun that is very solid and reliable. The tubes do add a bit of flare at the muzzle but not that great that you can really tell except up close. The tubes are rated for steel up to the modified tube, not rated for steel in IM or Full. This gun has a round body more or less and is a nice looking gun. The weight on mine is 6-14. It is a good handling gun with good balance.

I did have a Classic Lion I (without the sideplates) that had DT and a thinner BTFE. Nice gun, but for me it didn't handle all that well. The Classis is a much better handling gun, more style and more of a lively feel to her.

The Classic series is more common with a 26" bbl. There are 28" and even 30" bbls in this series, but can be hard to come by. You can find them, but you have to look. I know that there was one (CL I) on GB a while ago.

Overall, I think these are underrated guns and have much to offer for the price. I like mine!

Here's a couple of links with some more info

http://www.fabarm.com/en/default.htm

http://www.shootingtimes.co.uk/guns/shotguns/100461/Fabarm_Beta_Classis.html

Good luck and all the best!

Greg

I agree...sort of. If it was me (and, it was, too, because I have done this) I would look around for a "lightly butchered" old "quality" double. That way, you could "customize" the poor thing to your heart's content with a clear conscience. For example, my previously beaten up and abused old Skimin and Wood has had Briley choke tubes installed, along with lenghtened forcing cones, a new stock finish, a new recoil pad, and it has also had its automatic safety deactivated. A "relic" is now "back in the hunt". How can this be a bad thing?

The Ithaca SKB Model 100 with 26" barrel would be IC/M, and would meet your requirements--except it has a SST. But an extremely solid gun at a very good price (under $1,000). You might check out the Fausti Styles that Cabela's has been selling. I believe they are OK with steel, and in your price range. Older Bernardellis with open chokes would also be OK. Actually, I'd say any gun from the 60's or newer with chokes no tighter than mod should work, as long as you don't shoot anything larger than about #4 steel. Browning warns not to shoot steel through its Belgian guns, but the real concern is the combination of tight choke and large steel pellets.