Hi folks, forgive me in advance, but I'm new to this muzzle loading shenanigans. I've restored my super little Westley Ricards and now want to fire it. I have my black powder licence and have purchased some swiss number 3 powder.

Now, I'm not entirely sure what goes where...I've been sold two difference sized card discs as well as fibre wads and shot as well as the powder of course.

I attach picture 1!



Forgive my amateur artwork. The powder is first down the barrel. Then the wad, then the shot, then what? One of those two cards? Why have I been sold two card types one thicker than the other?

That's my first question...is the order correct or am I doing something wrong?

Second question!

I've got both a powder flask AND a powder measuring tool to fill philes. The flask has options from 2 1/2 to 3 1/4 drams. But the measuring tool has somethin from what appears to be 01 to 120!! Pictures below.

Both in this picture;



Powder Flask;



...and Powder tool;



I've heard but wanted to verify that I should just use 2 1/2 drams to start with and see how that goes. Does anyone concur? Also what are the measurements on the tool with the sliding adjuster going to 120 (what measurement is that?).

FINALLY!

How much shot would people recommend I think I have a shot flask that has 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 of something as options...is that drams too?

Thanks so much in advance for any answers!

Regards,

Tony

A dram is 27.34 grains. The markings on you powder measure is in grains up to 120 grains. Your 2 1/2 drams is about 68.25 grains of powder. Or slightly less, you can do the math. The heavy card is an over-powder wad, the light card is the over-shot wad. It goes powder, over-powder wad, wad, shot, over-shot wad. The thick card is to keep powder from getting moist from the felt wadding.

The shot flask is in ounces.

I'd be starting at a basic load of shot of about 7/8 of an ounce just to see how it goes.

Okay, black powder is always measured by volume instead of weight. You could use both of those powder measures but you will need something to measure your shot with also. Most shot pouches can be adjusted according and initially you should make the powder charge equal to the shot charge using the same volume. In other words and for example 2 ½ drams of powder and then add 2 ½ drams of shot to keep it equal by volume NOT weight. Your gun is older I would take it easy on the charge you put in it.

The thinnest card goes over the shot, don’t worry it will hold. The thicker card can either be used in conjunction with the cushioning (fiber) wad or alone by itself directly over the powder. In my loads I dispense with that hard thicker card and only use the fiber cushioning wad over the powder, then the shot and then an overshot wad, again, that real thin one. My shotgun just patterns better with that combination but you will have to experiment also to see how your shotgun patterns.

Be careful, keep your face and as much of your hands away from the business end of those barrels as much as possible. Half cock the hammers to allow some of the air to escape while you are pushing those wads down those barrels. The wadding is usually very easy to push down a barrel if the barrels aren’t badly pitted.

Loading a rifle is dangerous enough but a double barreled shotgun is in a league all by itself and I swear sometimes you can see the devil himself staring back up at you while you are loading those barrels.

Everything is done by volume. With one dipper you can measure both powder and shot.



You can also find old patch cutters so you can cut your own wads.



You have already been given good advice. Mop the bore, make sure there is no percussion cap on the nipple. I load powder, wad, shot and over shot card.

This is not rapid fire and you are going to welcome that, because those barrels can get very hot.

Pete

I'm not a muzzleloader guy, but I do load brass shotshells and everything goes in the same order and the principles are the same. The powder flask reads in drams and the measure in grains. You can find a conversion chart for drams of black powder to grains, but if you use the flask, you won't need to. If the gun is a 12 ga or larger, FFG (number 2?)might be a little more appropriate, but FFFG (number 3?) will work, at least if you load light loads (2 1/2 drams in a 10 or 12 ga). The shot measures in ounces. Start off with 1 ounce. I would load, powder, over powder wad (the thick card wad for better sealing), then the thick filler wad. After loading the shot, use the thin over shot card wad. This wad should fit as tightly as possible, so the shot doesn't roll out the end of the barrel while you're carring the gun afield or when you fire the first barrel in a double barreled gun. Hopes this helps some. Bill Frech

Hi 999
You are in for a bit of fun. The above advice is all first class as long as your gun is a 12 bore - different rules apply if you have something different - seek advice if it is.
If you are new to the game there are a few safety rules you need to bear in mind.
Firstly ALWAYS wear safety glasses.
Check the gun is not already loaded - just compare the depth of the barrel inside and out using the ram rod – a double load can be a memorable experience!!! And it is not unknown for a muzzle loader to be left loaded – certainly not recomended.
Second you will need to 'cap off' before you load the gun ie fire a percussion cap on an empty gun to remove oil etc.
Always remember that once you have fired the gun there could be smouldering embers down the barrel. The powder flask you have has a flash protection gate to hopefully stop it tuning into a hand grenade if this occurs, but always pour the powder in with the gun tilted away from you. The technique with the flask is to place your finger over the spout of the upturned flask, operate the gate with the thumb and give it a little shake, let go of the thumb press and turn the flask up the right way. The measure nozzle should then be full and the flash protector closed. It is now safe to pour it in the barrel.
If you have a double barrelled gun always load one barrel at a time and cover the other with your thumb – again to prevent double load.
You will attract attention and people will want to chat while you are loading – concentrate!!! – it is so easy to get distracted. Never take a chance – if you loose track unload the gun and start again.
If you are going to fire the gun straight away then I just use the oily felt wad but if you are going to be delayed such as on a game day always use an over powder wad to stop the oil soaking into the powder.
So great - you are ready to go – boom – smoke – broken clay and then you get a misfire!!!
Bit of a problem – you can’t just wait 30 seconds and take out the dud cartridge. Black powder can be prone to ‘hang fires’ where there is a delay before it fires so be very aware of this.
First thing to do is keep it pointing at the sky.
Try a couple more caps after checking the nipple is clear – you can get a purpose made ‘pricker’ for this or a paperclip will do. If still no joy then the flash is not reaching the powder for some reason. It is usually a bit of oil or wet got in the nipple and the flash is only making contact with wet powder – assuming you remembered to put the powder in the first place!!
I am not sure if this is standard practice in the event of a miss fire but after a suitable length of time I unscrew the nipple and from a small flask, with fine powder in, I pour a small quantity into the nipple chamber. This will reinforce the flash and the gun will almost always go off – but be careful!! After a couple of goes with this you will usually find there is enough pop to push the wad and shot out of the barrel and you can start again, making sure there is no residual powder left in the barrel.
You will probably find that under the cap of your ram rod there is a worm screw – this is for unloading a miss fired gun as a last resort. I have to say I have never been comfortable poking around down the barrel of a loaded gun, I value my fingers too much so I have always managed to avoid this.
I am sure you will get more advice from others more experienced in miss fire incidents!!!!!
One last word – clean your gun well but make sure you get it dry after pouring the water down to dissolve the residues. Dampness left in the barrel or nipple chamber will destroy your gun in a very short time – again I am sure others will give their thoughts on the best way to clean black powder guns.
Best of luck and have some fun!! I just hope you wont need the 999.
John

Guys really appreciate the info. Much appreciated. After your post John I'm almost apprehensive to even have a go! . When the barrels are cleaned..I've heard warm soapy water is the thing...do you take the cap blocks off at the end or leave them on? They are hugely tight and I don't want to have to take them off after each fire...but I will if it is the done thing.

Thanks again. It is a twelve guage by the way.

T

I have been doing it for years – still have all my fingers and eyes – no hair though!!
Just a couple of more things which may make your ML shooting more enjoyable.
Get a nipple key! You will need to remove the nipple to clean and dry your gun properly and it is the right tool for the job. Grease the threads on the nipple – a ceased nipple is a load of hassle.
If you are doing a lot of shooting make a better ram rod – mine is made out of dowel and a wooden ball about the size of a cricket ball. I have marked it with rings at the depth of the empty barrel and the charged barrel as a safety measure.
Whenever you are shooting cover up your percussion caps and powder if you are using a bowl and dipper. It can be quite distracting if a spark drops into either!!!
Here are a couple of photos, the stills are both breach loaders but they are shooting black powder, the small one is my 14 bore Perrins and the punt gun takes 19oz of shot!! You need the sound on for the video clip – the guy had never seen a ML gun before let alone fired one – Great!
You aren’t a million miles away so if you are worried then send me a PM and I will give you all the help I can.
John
click on this first photo to see the video clip - sound on!

Hi John, tremendous...give me a pm with your location...we should get together.

T

Very few things have an absolute "Only" way of doing it. I acquired a ML'ing Shotgun in the mid 60's & used it a considerable amount for rabbit hunting with Beagles. I always had it poiled between uses & bagan by swabing out the oil & snapping a few caps prior to loading. After several misfires on the first shot, from not geting immediate action I tried other methods. What I settled on was swabing out the bores with alchol & being sure it had time to totally evaporate & that some squirted through the nipples. After that I never dry snapped a cap again & never had another first shot misfire. Cap residue will sometimes clog the nipple & is worse on a dry fire as there is no back pressure to clear it. Use what works though & what you are comfortable with, but this has been my preferred method for either my shotgun or cap-lock long rifle. If I know I'm going hunting "Tomorrow", I do the alcohol swab "Tonight" & stand it muzzle down to drain out overnight. So far has worked every time.

Suggested reading,

Starr

Couple of miscellaneous tips (you've had some very good advice in this thread): (1) Don't put a lot of pressure on the wads once they're down on the powder. There's an old tradition to bang the rod on the wad till it bounces--don't do it. W. Greener in 1835 published his findings on this and found a wad simply touching the powder resulted in a much cleaner burning gun with noticably faster ignition. (2) If able, use bronze nipples, they don't wear the iron threads on your breech as much.

Recommended reading: W. Greener's book, "The Gun", 1835. Found at Google Books and can read online.

Good shooting! I'm envious of your WR.

The alcolhol swab method sounds interesting and well worth a try. I too am just getting into muzzle loaders with a 16 bore and an 18 bore both single barrel percussion. Lagopus.....

Note that the snapping of a couple of caps after swabbing the oil from bores is a long standing tradition among ML'ers. It is quite suffecient as long as the first shot is fired soon. My problems surfaced when hunting where I would load as soon as leaving the truck & some time might pass prior to getting a shot. In spite of my best efforts at swabbing out the bores A little oil could remain at the base of the nipple which was not reached, resulting in a misfire under those conditions, so I worked up the alternate method.

I certainly do not want to leave the wrong impression here, OldFarmer's post was a most excellent one & certainly worthy of studying for its overall excellant advise on the subject. I am just offering this one small alternative which has worked well for me over many years.

Most of what you have been told above is good, but it is very very incomplete. If you were located in the US I could direct you to a trained muzzleloading instructor from the NMLRA. I train such instructors and shooters as well. I don't know if there is a parallel organization in the UK. If there is, contact them. If not I suggest two courses of action. First contact the National Muzzleloading Rifle Association (we do shotguns too)at www.nmlra.org and request the Student handbook for Muzzleloading. I think they will send it for a nominal fee. If not contact me again and I will get one to you. Then find an experienced shooter in your vicinity to go with you to the range. (Many "experienced" shooters are self taught which means they are still learning the hard way so give greater weight to the handbook's instructions than the shooter where they vary.) After you learn the safest ways if you want to deviate,as many do, that is at your risk.

I know you are probably pretty anxious to start so the best I can do quickly is send you a couple copied pages to assist. Contact me at jvlape@cox.net so I can email the pages for you. Then if you have questions email them to me and I will help you along.

Thanks Jerry, email sent!

This may help: http://www.mlagb.com/ Lagopus.....

Yeah thanks heaps found em.

+1 on Miller's alcohol procedure. It works 100% of the time.

A couple of tips that I didn't read above (or may have missed) that I have learned over many years of shooting these BP guns, if shooting clays, doves, or any game where it is feasible. Shoot BOTH barrels before you reload. It is much more economical to reload both than just one. Of course, that isn't always feasible, so when you reload just one, and the other remains loaded, REMOVE THE CAP FROM THE NIPPLE ON THE LOADED BARREL before you even put the butt on the ground. Someone mentioned putting one thumb over the loaded barrel to prevent accidentally loading another charge in it. I use my loading rod to do this. Soon as the butt hits the ground I remove the rod from the thimbles, if using the gun's ramrod, and drop it down the barrel while I load the other. Of course, making a dedicated loading rod for casual shooting, not walk up hunting, is better. I make them by using a straight grained hickory rod and fitting an old solid brass doorknob to one end. Some of them are very nice looking and it really makes an attractive part of your shooting kit. Get a capper. It's a handy tool that holds your caps and dispenses them one at a time, making it much easier to cap the nipple as well. Big or cold fingers are not conducive to easily handling a little no. 11 cap. Tedd Cash, here in the States, makes the best ones I know of. I have used his forever with perfect results. I put it on a lanyard and hang it around my neck while hunting or just shooting.

Good luck, John. I'd like to see the grin on your face the first time you touch one off.

Stan

Henry Kranks in England are a good source of all that is muzzle loading. They will send a catalogue free of charge if you log onto their website and request one. They sell cap dispenser as mentioned by Stan. Lagopus.....

Cheers fellas will get a cap dispenser poste haste! Thanks for the tips...going to try and fire it today!

T

Tony,
Everyone's pretty well has your answers covered. Now what I suggest is that you use that gun for some "rough" pheasant hunting. I have a 12 bore Pedersolli that I often use for hunting wild pheasants. It only weighs 5.5 lbs, think about it, where can you find a 12 bore capable of shooting a 1.25 ounce shot load that weighs only 5.5 lbs. While you may not want to shoot heavy loads through your vintage gun, it will add another level of pleasure and satisfaction to your hunting experience. Trust me, when that bird drops you'll almost hear the "ghosts" in that old gun cheering. KABOOM!!!
Steve

Steve, fired it today, tremendous sound and flames out of the muzzle...amazing! I shot it dry of lead because I hadnt shot one before but now I'm ready...just got to get the weights right etc and Jerry is helping me with things!

T

Now you have fired it comes the joy of cleaning it!!!!
This is how I do it but I know others have different ways.
If I can't clean it properly within a few hours I give it a good spray with WD40 which should temporarily kill off the corrosion.
You have two problems to overcome. Firstly the residues of the BP explosion are corrosive and secondly moisture.
The residues of the BP are acidic but the good thing is they are very soluble in water.
What I do is to remove the nipple and flush the barrel out with plenty of water, giving it a good brush with a bronze brush. This is best done in a bucket. Next I put some BP cleaning solvent through the gun to kill off any remaining acidity. You can repeat this till the barrels are clean – check with a clean piece of 4x2 on a jag. I then flush through with very hot water and leave to drain and dry. I aid this by blasting compressed air from the air line through the nipple chamber as this is the most likely spot you will get retained moisture. I then usually leave it upright on the boiler for a few hours till absolutely bone dry. It then has a light oiling inside and out, grease the nipple threads after it has been cleaned and replace it, then store it barrel down to allow drainage. Bear in mind that the combustion chamber is normally a smaller diameter than the barrel so you need to get some oil down there to protect it – this could be sprayed oil through the nipple chamber or down the barrel.
There are lots of different ideas about cleaning but if you follow this and use some common sense you can’t go far wrong.
John

I recommend V. M. Starr's classic little book, "The Muzzle Loading Shotgun, It's [sic] Care and Use". The book can be Googled. The book is a fascinating read from an old-timer who "had been there". About the only problem with reading the book is that spitting down loaded gun barrels and loading directly from flasks and pouches is no longer recommended. The rest of the information in the book is as timely as it ever was and it is presented in an enteraining and readable form.

Cheers John. I've cleaned in a bucket as you suggest but I'll WD40 now. Jerry has been extremely helpful with loads and so on too. Great help all round! Will check out that book Ding.

One thing I've realised is that I've used a traditional beeswax finish on the barrels and hot water cleaning and so on isnt that good a combination with them getting sticky...so might have to remove that and maybe lacquer over to finish...any views?

Cheers
T

The idea of the hot water is to heat up the barrels so that they dry out quickly and don't leave moisture in the nooks and crannies. Cold water will dissolve the residues perfectly well. If you use cold water then you need to dry it very thoroughly. I’ve never heard of wax finish on the barrels - on the woodwork yes, but not the barrels. Is your gun an old one with brown Damascus barrels or a latter one with a blacked finish. I only wipe the metal work over with a slightly oily cloth. The browning or black/blueing finish is to prevent it rusting and only requires a wipe over with an oily cloth when dry.
Looking back over what I suggested for cleaning I didn't mention that you should always remove the barrels from the woodwork before cleaning - usually there is a peg holding the barrels on to the for-end wood and a hook on the rear of the barrels - just push out the peg - not all the way as they are usually retained -and then lift them off the hook.

Hi John, using beeswax was an old method of finishing the barrels off when they were browned. I'm thinking of removing it on this gun and giving it a lacquer finish which was the other method of finishing the barrels.

Thanks for the advice.
Regards,
Tony

Aren't they hoot to shoot....I tired of the nastiness and sold all mine.

WD 40 is the last thing I'd ever use on a blackpowder gun....Petrolerum based lubricants don't go well with blackpowder. Soapy water or Balistol and water for cleaning and John Deere Fluid Film as a protectant.

Ah maybe Joe but I'm keeping mine as a piece of history and I intend to game shoot with it this season too...nastiness and all.

Thanks on the cleaning tips!
T

Apparently WD 40 is a water dispersent - so as an emergency holding operation - till you can flush out the badness with water - it is quite effective. Good old H2O is by far the best thing but it can be messy if you have your best shooting gear on and not always convenient.
I have to say it is great - even at my ripe old age to learn something new. I had never heard of bees wax for barrels but I can see the logic - I am sure it would protect them from rusting. Pretty difficult to apply to the inside but if it was warmed a little and applied with a mop I guess it would work. I suppose if it was all you had - and no one had yet invented a John Deere - not too sure where we are going with this one! Not too sure how lacquer would stand up to the wear on a metal barrel. As soon as it was chipped it would have to be repaired. I remember at school we would lacquer brass work in metal work class but it didn't last very long before it was damaged and looked awful. I still think that the traditional way of browning or blacking and an oily cloth is best.

The barrels have been browned the traditional way but to stop the barrels rusting and give it protection wax was used or lacquer in some cases.

T

Oldfarmer knows of which he speaks! (However as a Yank, I have only the vaguest idea of how big a cricket ball is!)

FWIW:

I apologize to Michael Petrov for not seeing his recommendation if Starr's book, earlier. "Great minds", I guess.

General observation:

If I could only have one black powder gun (or, in a pinch one gun, period) it would be a double-barreled muzzle loading shotgun. Properly loaded and choked there is very little that these old-fashioned guns cannot do very well as long as lead projectiled ammunition is used.

Necessary "stuff":

I recommend a nipple wrench; a nipple pick; "good" nipples such as "Hot Shots" (Most "original" or "factory" nipples are junk.); a powder flask and separate powder measure, a shot flask and separate shot measure, a "capper", and a 1/2-inch strait-grained hardwood cleaning/"range" rod with gripping handle ( an appropriate wood ball is fine, as is a wooden tool handle) and a brass gag tip and appropriate jags, brushes, swabs, screws, and worms.

A lace-on recoil pad is not always a bad idea, either. Many of these guns are just a bit short for modern shooters. Newton's Second Law is generally not cancelled for muzzle loading shotguns.

A pair of Gripswell gloves that are designed for double barreled shotguns migh be useful, too, especially if the gun is to be used for range work. Black powder shotgun loads can really heat up barrels.

Loading: Random observations:

Use the best caps you can get. You won't be sorry. FWIW, I have had excellent success with RWS caps.

Powder: "The real soot" is best. Most shooters seem to prefer FFg and it works well. If I can get it, though, I still prefer Fg, heavier charges and (maybe) more "dirt" be damned.

Wads: There are two schools of thought about whether to use filler wads in muzzle loading shotguns. Those who favor the use of filler wads assert that such wads provide needed "cushioning" for the shot (They do not.) and efficient transmission of needed bore lubricant (They do). Nonbelievers (like Starr) assert that extra cushioning is not needed (They are correct.) but can run into trouble with lubricating the bore during continued firing (Hence, old V.M. spitting down loaded bores!). A compromise that has worked for me is to run rubbing alcohol soaked patches up and down the bore between shots, especially if only card wads are used. (Old-time gunfighters often cleaned their guns with "rot gut whiskey". I suspect that rubbling alcohol might be just a bit less toxic!) Otherwise, properly-lubricated felt or fiber filler wads can work just fine.

"Notching wads": Card OP wads can tend to "back out" when they are loaded due to back pressure in the bore. One trick to prevent this is to put a slight "notch" on one side of the wads. If two wads are loaded. make sure that the notches don't "line up" and all is well.

Shot: Use the "good stuff". "Magnum" shot is not only harder than "chilled" shot but it also tends to be more uniform in size and roundness. Besides, with the price of shot being what it is, the extra that one has to pay for magnum shot is piddling.

Loads: While BP can be loaded to practically any common velocity level it does best at about 1000 to no more than 1100 f.p.s., hence the recommendation of "volume-for volume" loading. With cylinder bore guns, a smaller volume of powder relative to that of the shot can contribute to improved patterns. Such loads can perform very well on clays with normal shot sizes. For hunting, it is often recommended that the shooter "come up" a shot size, especially is "shot resistant" game like pheasants is on the program.

Muzzle loading shotguns can be very effective "ball shooters", too. However, this subject can be treated another time.

Cleaning: All the recommendations that have been made have been good ones. I would just like to add, however, that Ballistol can be an excellent product for muzzle loading shotguns. Mixed with water to "black powder strength" it does a very nice job of "tidying up" after hot or cold water cleaning and it also does a very nice job of final cleaning and preservation of leather, wood and metal at full strength.

Dingelfutz
Sorry about the confusion over the size of the balls you have in the US. I only used the cricket ball analogy as I thought the majority of the civilized world would understand!!
I suppose a rounders ball – sorry, I think you call the game baseball – would be similar. I bet you still think a football is egg shaped rather than round?

Oldfarmer

You must be thinking of what Aussies use in Australian Rules (?!) Football. A "real" football is more "pointy" to allow more effective passing and to prevent such abominations as "the drop kick"! I suspect that a better choice might have been a tennis ball, since a ramrod "knob" the size of a baseball might be a bit cumbersome. (Besides, isn't speculating about the size of peoples' balls a bit personal?)

All that having been said, I still find your insights about ml shotguns to be "spot on". Since the Renaissance of classic breech loading double guns seems to be well under way, perhaps it might be time to consider rehabilitating the popularity and usefulness of the "front feeding" (from the German) varieties.

I certainly wasn't trying to cast doubt on the size or shape of the knobs and balls you have in the US - and in any case I have been told by ladies when I have visited the US that size doesn't really matter - MUCH!!
Now we - and the rest of the world - have a great game called rugby which uses an odd shaped ball - maybe someone should introduce it to the US - but you would have to stop wearing your shoulder pads!!

We have rugby, here, and I suppose the game might have its points. I wouldn't know. Unfortunately, in my experience, rugby playes are ALMOST as snobbish as soccer players are. Sad.

I'm coming in late here, already on page 4 and I haven't read but 3 or 4 posts. Someone may have already said it already, so forgive me if that's the case and I'm just repeating, but anyway, it bears repeating: NEVER LOAD THE BARRELS FROM THE POWDER FLASK. NEVER! Always pour the charge into a powder measure of some type, whether homemade or manufactured. Otherwise you risk having a bomb go off in your hand and how would you feel about your gun then?

OK - Now I get to go cook dinner and then I'll read this long thread about what looks to be a wonderful acquisition! Safely Yours - Marc

I agree if you don't know what yer doing don't load from a flask.

Homelessjoe, if you know what you are doing you wouldn't load from a flask.

A 19th century practice I have read of it to load "from the hand" - measure with the flask, pour the charge into the cupped palm of the other hand, then pour the charge down the barrel from the cupped palm. It is convenient in the field and I have done this occasionally, but I normally use an intermediate vessel other than my bare hand.

Regards,
Joel

You evidently don't know the history nor development of the English powder flask.

There was a lot of unsafe practices going on during that period. I remember a story reprinted in the ‘Field’ where a man shot himself accidently while pulling his gun out of the back of a wagon by the muzzle the trigger must have caught on something and the gun went off. His gun would have had to have been place in the back of the wagon at full cock in order for this to happen. Crazy stuff!

And Ballistix999 is shooting an original Westley Richards, so he has a pretty good shotgun there.

I have to say I agree with idea of not loading directly from the flask. While the flask shown does have a flash protection gate who wants to test it out!!! it only take one grain of powder preventing it closing properly to cause an explosion. It does make much more sense to load into another container before pouring the powder into the barrel - at least if the worst happens you will only get a singed hand - but at least you will still have a hand.

I hear you fellas I won't load from the flask. In fact I've bought plastic phials and preloaded some with powder and shot of equal volume. Plan to shoot it at a pattern plate this weekend to see what it's doing!
T

You should manage to hit that!!!

If you ever decide to use that WR to shoot wood pigeons, or any bird that allows you to shoot and reload from the same location (as opposed to walking up birds), you should make you a device that I made many years ago.

Start with a section of conduit (thin-walled tubing) that is of sufficient diameter to allow your loading rod to slide into it. On one end you should create a flare, or bell shaped end, to allow the rod to slip into it easily and without a lot of fumbling. Hammer the other end flat, then grind or hammer it into a point to facilitate pushing it into the ground. It should be long enough that when the loading rod is inserted into it your ball (or in my case a doorknob) handle will rest on the flared end before the lower end of the loading rod comes in contact with the pointed end of the tube..

In use you simply push the pointed end of the tube into the ground using the loading rod (which is inside the tube) as a handle to push on. It becomes a loading rod holder that is right beside you and only a few inches below your waist level for convenience.

Wonderful accessory for fast reloading on a dove shoot.

Stan

B999, everything you get with a muzzleloader is a trophy and a sense of accomplishment so good luck!!





This I got with my 'Kentucky' rifle, even though it’s custom built here in the "Colonies", it’s still no match for that Westley Richards of yours!
That stupid expression I have on my face is my normal look, sorry can't help it!!!

Treblig, it looks like you have a fine "Kaintuck" and a nice trophy. Congratulations!

One thing that worries me is that traditional ml shotgunning seems to be "falling off", a bit, on "this side of the Pond". While sidehammer guns are still being sold I see fewer and fewer indications that such guns are either being taken seriously or used extensively. In addition, gunsmiths who repair and/or upgrade ml shotguns are becoming harder and harder to find. For example, I now know of no one who "jug chokes" muzzle loading shotguns in the traditional way, anymore.

Dingel, which side of the pond are you? That's a mighty fine trophy you have there Treb. Keep shooting that ML. Just found a case for mine!

T

Muzzleloaders in the UK can contact myself for any queries or advice.As a member of the Trafalgar Muzzleloaders we have members with a wealth of ability and knowledge including a member who makes re-enactment matchlock, wheel-locks, cannons etc., jug choking is an easy operation for him.
We meet every fortnight at Curborough near Litchfield and do all the Midland fairs.
We can supply all your reloading requirements at cost to members and friends + Greener's reloading recipes, hints and tips.
Only an email away.

Ah splendid! Let me check where Curborough is..ok you are not that far...1hr away from me up the M40. When are you meeting next?

T

Gentlemen, thank you for your kind remarks.
Dingelfutz, I know what you mean brother; it just seems that people, on both sides of the pond, aren’t all that interested in muzzleloading and muzzleloaders anymore. There are some really good craftsmen out there producing quality stuff, but its not like it use to be.

I have no idea how many still use a ml'er, especially a shotgun. But for hunting, it all I have used in about the past 8-9 yrs. I started with percussion SxS's and now it is only flint SxS's. It is so much fun and that is one of the reasons I hunt.

I was shown this Westley and Richards by a friend in the trade. I was not interested at first, it being a muzzle loader. However it tweaked something and I just thought I should get one...it's also from a nice London Birmingham name. It just different and I'm so glad I bought it.

T

Tony,
Westley Richards a nice London name!!!!!
What like, W.W. Greener and W.C. Scott?????

Arse. Sorry...my bad...I should be more careful. But we all know whey were made in Brum