Picked up a couple A.H. Fox guns a couple weeks ago, one is an 1918 AE and The other a 1921 XE. The XE is in decent shape and is currently out to be fully restored.
The AE has barrels that have been cut from 30" to 28". They have some remaining choke. Talking to the gunsmith he said he might be able to massage the remaining chokes to roughly an IC and a Mod.
While my original intention was just to sell the AE I am now thinking of having the choke work done and using the gun for sometime sporting clays. My questions are, has anyone done this with cut barrels and do you end up with barrels capable of producing decent patterns?
Thanks, John

My suggestion is to shoot it 'as is' for your sporting use and switch from #9's for the inside 30 yds or so targets to #7.5's for everything else, inclusive of all 'rabbits'. Or you could simply shoot all #7.5's. You may be very pleasantly surprised at your scores. Spend money on getting the stock bent, if needed, and the trigger(s) done and the muzzle or keels touched up if they are rough or the gun on face. Believe it or not, you don't NEED a lot of choke even for 40 yard tower birds w/7.5 shot, the clays break much easier than trying to bag a live bird at the same distance.

The newest Fiocchi 'target shooting dynamics' 1oz loads of #7.5 shot @ 1200fps [12SD1H75]is very pleasant to shoot & has patterned well in several of my guns when I've bothered to shoot a few on the plate. Suggest you buy a flat & don't even bother to pattern your cut Fox until you've shot the first nine boxes at clays. I'd just about bet that you might not even be inclined to even bother by then.

kind regards, tw

True up the cut off area and add some solder to fill any gap. Then shoot the old girl. If recoil is heavy you may want to check the chamber's for length. 2 5/8 is common. I would lengthen the forceing cones before I messed with the chokes.

bill

John,

The first thing I would do is go out and pattern the gun. If there is some choke remaining find out how it patterns. Another option is to have a good barrel smith jug choke the gun.

Pete

Thanks for the input. I will get it on the pattern board just to confirm what it is doing. I have shot a couple rounds of trap with it and it breaks 35 to 40 yard birds well with 1oz loads so I would think the remaining choke is doing something.
The barrels were cut well, square, no missing solder. The gun itself is an older restock and reblue, both very nicely done, Gun is tight and on face.
I think I will just leave it as it is.

Pete: A thousand would-be double gun pundits will beat on the branches of which $19.95 drop-in choke measuring device is the best way to intuit the estimated pattern of a shotgun (not to mention automatically assuming that a cut-barrel gun needs choke fixing). The nicest shooting little 16-bore Parker I ever had (and sold to HC, alas!) had cut barrels. The BH that Destry bought from me had cut barrels, and he reported that it helped his scores at both trap and skeet. I shot ducks in Louisiana and Pigeons in the rings of PA with the BH. I wrote an article--"In Praise of Cut Barrels"--that ought to be required reading, but it seems that, for too many people, actually shooting a gun is not nearly so much fun as speculating about choke measurements and hand-wringing and soul-searching over non-standard barrel lengths.

PeteM is one out-of-the-ordinary person--an expert--who would actually go for the root and suggest that the gun be shot at a 30-inch circle at 40 yards, and the actual pattern count and distribution be evaluated with different shot sizes and powder loads.

Thank you PeteM for a breath of fresh air. You win the Henry Thoreau Prize for "Not Beating on the Branches, but Going for the Root." The payoff is an invite to the farm on the IL/WI state-line north of Durand IL; the trap is set-up is behind the barn, the pheasants are squwaking, ParkerDog is primed, and opening day is next Saturday... EDM

I bought an 1891 Parker DH damascus 12 gauge at the Fall Southern SxS last weekend. I'm pretty sure, but not certain, that the barrels have been cut to 28". The stock was cut and a Silvers pad added. The bores have been reamed to .754 and there's .006 choke remaining in each barrel (there's plenty of barrel wall thickness). I haven't patterned it but I did shoot it at clays down there and when I was on target they broke.

If this gun was in "original condition" it would have been priced well above my budget so I got a "shooter" that I could afford.

I agree that you should shoot it and see how it performs. Personally I like open chokes.

Ed,

I thank you. I will give you a call and we can set up a day.

Pete

Many 1891 12 gauge Parkers were originally bored near .750.

Thanks for the info.

There is enough barrel wall thickness that I am comfortable shooting this gun. Maybe it's been messed with a little less than I thought. I got it for a price that made both me and the seller happy so it was a fair deal. Like all of my guns I bought it to shoot and shoot it I will.

This year, I purchased a rare 28" .410 NID ejector gun. It was marked M/F, but when I got it home it measured .010/.000". I was disappointed. But, that kicked the door open for me to "butcher" it and lengthen the chambers from the 2 1/2" to 3" with some long cones. I've been hunting it on everything from pen raised pheasant and chukar to wild quail. That cylinder bore is good out to quite a bit further than anyone, myself included, would expect for killing birds with a 3" shell. The pattern board show excellent patterns.

An esteemed member no longer here pm'd me four or five years ago that for most shooting for most hunters cylinder is the way to go, in the field or for games and he had the trophies to prove it. A nice gun with cut barrels wouldn't deter me in the least. Saturday, my 16ga Model 8 Sauer opened F/F to IC/IC was so deadly we were out of there in 10 minutes.

I have a 12ga Crescent w/ 28" barrels and cylinder chokes. A vintage Red Head pad brought the dimensions to 14-7/8 x 1-1/2 & 2-1/2. Fish scale say 8-1/2 lbs. Does great at skeet & five stand with mild 1-1/8 oz. loads.

Good thread. The 2 SXS shotguns I shoot best are a Fox Sterlingworth and Lefever H grade, both 12 ga., both with cut barrels and neither have a front sight. When I let people try them they are amazed at how easy they are to shoot and hit with. I think light hand loads help as well. Both guns pattern evenly out at 30 yards. When they mention the missing sight I tell them it's so they can see the bird better.

Jack K