For me it's a no-brainer. Best values were SKB S/S and O/U, Miruko dittos, Brownings ditto, and believe it or not the CZ line of Turkish guns. What do you think?

I think a good minty Boss game gun with over 80% original finish, bought at late seventies prices, would give you more appreciation and take less room to store than 300 SKBs, and much easier to liquidate.

Current prices on Smith and Wesson Elite Golds (I got a NIB one for $1050). Also, if we're talking o/u's the Beretta Whitewing gets my vote...I sold a 20 gauge version about 8 yrs ago and regretted it ever since.

CSMC's RBL-20 at the introductory price. I hunt with mine practically every weekend, and it is a great gun.

--shinbone

I would have to say that the Ithaca doubles have held their own as far as value and quality. Ditto on the SKB's they are an underrated "knockabout" IMHO

I guess this depends on how one defines bargain. I'd choose almost any Beretta 680 series boxlocks or a Citori. Another choice would be a good used Birmingham boxlock.

30 years is a long time in gun values. If I'd bought all the Foxes and/or Parkers I could have bought 30 years ago I'd be a happy guy today! Same for lots of other brands I reckon.

I think the original poster was referring to inexpensive yet quality doubles. $2,000 for a $4,000 Rolex watch would sure be a "bargain", but it would not be inexpensive for many people, including me.

From my own experience, I have to the agree with the original poster, the Ithaca/SKB's are heard to beat. Truly a good gun, yet still 3-figures in the field grade.

Nine-Pointer: that is exactly what I meant in posting. Quality doubles at affordable prices when new. Chops

In SXS, I'd say A.Zoli "Silver Hawk," SKB 100 and 200, Bernadelli "Roma 3" and San Uberto 2." Wish I could name a Spanish double, but I can't remember which ones turned out good in the 1980s....

In O/U I'd say Beretta 685 and 686 in lower grades, field grade Citori's, Lanbers in middle grades. Ruger Red Label has always been a bit pricey and heavy to quite make it, although I'd be tempted to cite the 28-bore Red Label....

In terms of "gun for the money", I have to agree with most of those listed above. For a long time, the Miroku-made Charles Daly guns, both sxs and OU, were real sleepers on the market. So were the Zoli-Rizzinis that A&F imported as knockabouts when Francottes started getting pricey, although the Z-R smallbores have climbed some lately. Still some good bargains on Sauers and Simsons out there; not so much on Merkels, since they're still being imported.

I know this is a wide net, but just about any Japanese made O/U or SXS made in the 1980's would fall into the category of Best Bargain Doubles. I'm talking the base models, without all the bells and whistles. PS. Exception might be the Winchester model 23's (never bargains) and certainly the Parker Reproductions which were never made to be bargain type guns.

Mike:

To your list I'd certain add the Miroku sxs. I bought one in better than 95% condition about 2 years ago for $400 out the door from a PA dealer.

Rem

browning citori (83-90) all the way best buy

Yes, I'd have to include the Berreta Silver hawk S/S imported in the 70's.

BSS

Beretta 685-S ...12's and 20's............

New in the early to mid 1980's, all bargains with quality...

CSM RBL's at introductory prices will prove to be good buys.

Anything bought 30 years ago would look like a bargan now. You could get a Browning SxS for less than $400, an SKB for $360. In 1978 (32 years ago) I saw a cased set of Holland and Holland double rifles, 375H&H and 303 British for $25,000 at Atlanta Outfitters Fine Guns, LTd. Did not have the money then either. They also had a Browning superposed with a gold inlay of Elvis for $35,000. It was on the table right behind the Hollands. Made me want to puke, but who knows what it would be worth now.

I would also include the Ugartechea model 30: $700 in 1993

1982 BSS $549
1982 Beretta 424 $900...Silver Hawk designation stopped in 1964 and came back in the late 90s, I believe, even though the 424s,and 626s are sometimes called Silver Hawks.
1982 Beretta 685 $820
1982 Browning Citori $690

If you are talking bargains, forget most anything bought new-it will take a long time to recoup the money Mr. Dealer made on you.
Talking bargains today, Spanish boxlocks from the 1970s. Well used English boxlocks from whenever. There are guys who advertise right here looking for 3-5 large for English boxlocks, those aren't a good deal. It's got to be pretty special to bring more than 2 large in a used English boxlock.
Gunbroker is awash in CSMC RBLs (42 of 'em?) some at serious discounts off new retail.
With appologies to Donald Fagen, we all know the danger of nostalgia...


Best,
Ted

Almost anything you bought right 30 years ago would seem like a bargain today. Point made earlier that many here could not afford the real bargains back then and some still can not.

Personal best buys of the last few years.

A pair of Ithaca NID 12 ga. shooters for 700.00.
A Fox Pin gun with a miller trigger and ejectors for 800.00.
A Grade Fox 16 and 20 for less than 5k.
Browning Super, pre war, two trigger solid rib 750.00. Had to replace fore end wood but found a perfect one in less than a year of looking.
Baker Double that was marked Montgomery Wards for 100.00. Had a broken stock and no metal finish. Cleaned up nicely and had a stock that fit with very little work.
LC Smith field grade, almost perfect condition for 750.00.
Any Lefever that I have bought in the last ten years. They are such a wide assortment of features that each gun is almost one of a kind.

Any "shooter" that you can buy and use is a great value. I invest in just about anything other than guns. I know some have made a killing in buying early, or buying rare guns or even in finding the next fad gun to buy. I like American guns that were made before WWII or better yet before WWI. You can enjoy the rest and I promise not to run up the price on you.

I bought my first sxs, an Ithaca SKB Model 150 12ga, at the Navy Rod & Gun Club, Rota, Spain, in 1972 for $162. My other choice was a Winchester 101 20ga for, I believe, $190. Back in those good old days, guns were real bargains at the military rod & gun clubs.

A few more nominees (when discontinued):

1. The 20 ga. Parker DE SxS Repro Double closeouts

2. The Winchester Model 23 Winchoke SxS closeouts

3. The S&W Elite 20ga, SxS closeouts

4. The FABARMS 12 ga. SxS Classic Lion closeouts

Those who know something of guns and their values would have been much better off in the past 30 years filling their homes with high quality guns at below retail than blindly investing in the stock market or in mutual funds. By "blindly investing" I mean with the advice of a broker who has only his interests in his advice. If you buy a fine gun at 60% of retail, you are years ahead of other paper investments.

I dunno about that Boss, but I wish I'd had bought a ton of silver about 7-8 yrs ago at $5 since it's nearly $30 now. That's probably a bit better than the Boss did or the SKB too. Then I could buy the gun I wanted at regular prices and still be tickled.

Not a SxS but a normal 12 ga. Browning Superposed can often be had for around $1000. Once considered the standard that all the wannabes tried to copy, these fine guns are now available for less than the latest semi-auto costs, new.

Agree on the silver investment. But,............. as far as buying the gun I wanted at regular prices and still be tickled, I probably couldn't. I've been a bottom feeder when buying guns for so long I don't think I could be happy paying market price no matter how easy the money was to come by.

Stan

I'm with you, Sam. Most expensive gun I've ever bought was 2 yrs. ago --- a Utica Sterlingworth in unfired condition 16 bore for 1200. Won't find any others made in 1935 in that shape where it lay hidden in a closet of a two flat in Chgo. Chops

I'm sure we all have stories of the cheap and good and also ones that we let get away. Was at an auction a few years ago and bought a L.C. Smith Specialty grade 16 gauge for $1,500. Turned out the barrels were cut (I was more stupid then), but I still sold it for more then what I paid.

However, that same day I watched two Sterlingworths head out the door that I wanted, but I was holding out for the LC. One SW (a pin gun) went out the door at $800. The other (a 16 gauge with 30" tubes) went out the door also at $800. Both guns were subsequently sold on Gunbroker and a substantial profit was realized by the fellow who bought both at the auction.

That particular auction had loads of Winchester rifles (pre-64) and as such most of the doubles there were pretty much ignored b most.

Supers are nice. '68 Diana 12, $1800. Yes the salt was all in their heads, Virginia. Course some will tell you that that's about what a salt era Diana is worth but check Barnett's prices on 68s and 9s and you'll find a 5 at the head of the zeros. Salt all in their heads there too--or you'd hope so. '36 $&$, 6C; sold it to a member here. '37 "twin-single" trigger 12, $1200. Still have it. Got a 9C Lightning workaday with Briley thinwalls.

By the buy, if anyone should choose to send me 8 hunnert bucks plus a "substantial profit", I'll try to rustle up a Sterlingworth Co. or Fox pin gun for you

jack

I can see it from this side of pond Browning Superposed was and is the best buy

The Browning Super 12's are excellent buys on the market right now. But if one wanted to make money on a Super, the one to have bought was a 20ga before the prices started shooting up.

Jerry, I can't remember for sure, but I believe they closed out some 28ga Repros for the same money as the 20's. Looking at today's prices, 28's at that money were real bargains.

stevens 411

I agree with many of the guns cited here, especially the close-out Parker Repros and just about anything marked Miroku. My nominations for best recent O/U's are the Sig SA5 (B. Rizzini) at $1200 new and the late Browning Feather XS small bores with 30" barrels at $1200 new. I think the ultimate bargain guns of the last 30 years must be anything with sound Damascus or twist barrels and decent dimensions. There was a period when these guns were being given away, and now many of us are paying fairly serious money for the good ones.

Might I suggest the FAIR/Savage Milanos that BPS is closing out at $750 right now?

as far as making money the parker repros that jaquas were offering (12-15)? years ago, both single and 2 barrel sets in smaller gauges. my dad was alive then and always had a few parker around, nothing fancy, couple of VHE's, a trojen, and a few foxes for good measure. he laughed at the repros and said they'ed never bring the price of original, i'm sure he's turning in his grave now. the reason i never bought one is i don't own a jap. gun and never will although there is some nice stuff is out there jeff p.s. the mod 23 win. were tempting!

I remember when Cape Outfitters was clearing out small bore Parker repros at $1500, cased. Duh. . . Chops

Not to nitpik with your numbers Chops, but you're off by a bit. The DHE Repros were closed out at $1995 for the DT version and $2095 for the SST guns, the beavertail forend guns that were available at the closeout were $100 more. The 2-bbl. DT sets were closed out at $2695 and $2795 for the SST version. Everyone has an opinion and I don't want to be left out, so here's mine: I believe the 28-ga. Repros at the closeout price were the best bargain in doubles ever.

When did they close out those guns? Looks to me like you'd get something less than 3x your money for a 28ga today vs closeout price. Maybe closer to 2 1/2x, which is still quite good.

I bought a BSS Sporter 20ga, new, in 1980 for $400. That one, I'm sure, would get me at least 3x my money today. Maybe pushing 4x.

They closed them out in the mid-1990's. As you know, the real "value" of a gun can go much beyond it's monetary return. i.e. What would you rather carry for a day in the grouse woods, a 6 3/4+ lb. 20-ga. Browning B-SS or a 5 1/2 lb. 28-ga. Repro?

Matter of fact, I have carried both--for both grouse and woodcock, and pheasants. Grouse and woodcock, I'd sooner carry the 28ga Repro. Pheasants, the BSS . . . the weight of which is pretty similar to that of a 20ga Repro. And I say that in spite of the fact that I made a run on preserve pheasants with a 28ga Repro that I never expect to repeat, with any gun or gauge. But those were preserve birds (albeit good ones), and I'd sooner take the extra weight and carry a 20 for wild ones.

Larry, is the price of $400 you quote in 1980 money or in today's?

Just for your reference Historic Conversion

As a BBD I'd choose the CSMC A-10 American at its introductory price with all
the discounts. "Steal of a lifetime" as someone put it in the current thread on them.

JC

[quote=BIRDSHOOTER]as far as making money the parker repros that jaquas were offering (12-15)? years ago, both single and 2 barrel sets in smaller gauges. my dad was alive then and always had a few parker around, nothing fancy, couple of VHE's, a trojen, and a few foxes for good measure. he laughed at the repros and said they'ed never bring the price of original, i'm sure he's turning in his grave now. the reason i never bought one is i don't own a jap. gun and never will although there is some nice stuff is out there jeff p.s. the mod 23 win. were tempting! [/quote Amen to that Birdshooter- I will NEVER own or shoot any Jap or Russki or Chink made weapon (I have a "de-wat" now SKS that a NVA "left beind" for me, welded the gas piston assy and plugged the muzzle- hangs on the wall in my "gun den"-- ALL my firearms are US of A made- I will shoot B&P or Fiocchi shells, ow- Hornady, Federal and Remington- no Chink made Wolf 30-06 or 308 in my ammo safe either- and all my machinists tools and gauges in either the Gerstner or Kennedy tool boxes (thank you Grandpa) are 100% USA made-we have sold out our Country's pride in workmanship for a bigger "bottom line profit"--best bumper sticker I ever saw went like this "Shop at Wally_Mart- where the US buys all its cheap Chink-made crap"

JC, what I quoted is what I paid for the gun. I think that's what we're talking here, certainly so both in the case of the Parker Repro at closeout price and the BSS I bought new in 1980.

I think it's always a little chancy to point to a newly-introduced gun as a good investment. The example being a fair number of RBL's on the market, at pretty good prices (for the buyer). On the other hand, in terms of making money on a gun buy, who would have thought that the Ruger Gold Label was the solid investment it has turned out to be--and in a fairly short period of time? Not me.

So am I going to get flamed for loving my Jap Weatherby Orion that I got used a dozen or so years ago? She's my first O/U and even though there's nicer guns in my safe, I never even think of selling her. I've probably put several thousand rounds through her and she just seems to get smoother every outing :-)

FWIW, I recently picked up a new Mossberg Silver Reserve .410 O/U for my 7&9 y/o daughters. Yeah, the side engravings look cheesy and trigger is stiff, but wood to metal fit is well done. Very nice checkering and good wood, albeit a subtle grain. Deep bluing on Turkish barrels. All for under $500. Shoulders nicely and my girls love shooting it.