Very excited that I've made my first foray into vintage doubles. I had posted earlier this year about possibly buying a Colt 1878 but after getting a great deal of feedback from forum members and just not feeling all warm and fuzzy about the gun, I changed avenues. I decided on a beautiful A. Francotte hammerless that has lovely chain Damascus barrels and great engraving. The quandary I've run into is when I spoke about shipping the gun. If my research is correct, the serial number and forgings all indicate a gun manufactured in late 1896 or early 1897. The seller insists that she is younger, manufactured between 1920-1970. He seems like an older fellow, very nice and I think I did fantastic in the deal. Paid $1500. Bores shiny smooth, at least 90% finish on barrels and even better on engraving. All screws proper, locks tight and on face. Serial number 28428, among the proofs are the proper Francotte stampings and "non pour balle", along with a diamond with a 12 over C. Am I crazy or is she a late 1800's gun? If i did my homework right, ive dated her correctly and the proofs are for blackpowder. I'll try to post pics, a little computer illiterate. Thanks to Pete for his insight awhile back!
Very excited that I've made my first foray into vintage doubles. I had posted earlier this year about possibly buying a Colt 1878 but after getting a great deal of feedback from forum members and just not feeling all warm and fuzzy about the gun, I changed avenues. I decided on a beautiful A. Francotte hammerless that has lovely chain Damascus barrels and great engraving. The quandary I've run into is when I spoke about shipping the gun. If my research is correct, the serial number and forgings all indicate a gun manufactured in late 1896 or early 1897. The seller insists that she is younger, manufactured between 1920-1970. He seems like an older fellow, very nice and I think I did fantastic in the deal. Paid $1500. Bores shiny smooth, at least 90% finish on barrels and even better on engraving. All screws proper, locks tight and on face. Serial number 28428, among the proofs are the proper Francotte stampings and "non pour balle", along with a diamond with a 12 over C. Am I crazy or is she a late 1800's gun? If i did my homework right, ive dated her correctly and the proofs are for blackpowder. I'll try to post pics, a little computer illiterate. Thanks to Pete for his insight awhile back!
Sounds like a very nice gun. I believe you have the dating correct.
Glad I was able to help a bit along with many others.
Pete
Very excited that I've made my first foray into vintage doubles...
Oh oh, abandon all hope all ye who enter here... Welcome to the dark side.
Seriously, congratulations.
Steve
According to the serial no. list for Medium Grade Guns, your gun was made when you think it was. High grade gun serial numbers go into the low 20,000s in the 1980s, but those numbers did not extend as high as your gun's number.
Thanks Pete. Tried to upload from my iPad but am not very savvy. My 7 and 9 y/o daughters handle a computer better than me lol.
Pinned in the wrist, but otherwise looks very nice.
Agree with Daryl and with your estimate on age. According to the sources I have, "non pour balle" was no longer used after 1897.
With wood like that, the gun just begs for a master-class wood repair specialist to remove those pins through the wrist and panels and redo the checkering, with a nice refinish. Might not be possible to do. Some nice piece anyway.
JR
What direction do you end up going by doing a repair (value wise)? What % of a guns value is in the stock relative to the overall piece?
Fine gun, good deal, a nice way to start your foray into the world of "classic doubles". I agree with Mr Roberts' suggestion. Perhaps down the road you'll become acquainted with/aware of a knowledgeable stock repairer who'll be able to bring that gun to the true condition it's begging for.
On the other hand, don't do it. Instead, a good lesson can be culled from this "blemish" in that you'll not be afraid to take it into the woods to use it as intended. Sooner or later, every "collector" of fine guns has to cross that line. You can get a jump-start with this gun and clear your head of any future fears of relegating a gun to a safe.
Believe it or not, this could the best part of the good deal you got on this gun.
Fixing the stock should be pretty doable (don't know what it would cost). The good news is that both pins are in areas that are checkered. Once the pins are removed and repaired invisibly the old pinned areas could be filled in and recheckered making for an invisible or nearly invisible repair.
However, the current repair doesn't look particularly bad and would certainly appears to be durable.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Steve
Oops, nearly forgot, nice looking wood, I agree with George and suggest not replacing the stock if you can help it.
Keeping the original stock, to me, would make the gun more valuable than replacing it with a new one. IMHO. The pin at the head could be completely disguised by a world class gunsmith and stockmaker like Jim Kelly at Darlington Gun Works. He fixed a Purdey for me and I defy anyone to tell me that it was ever pinned
Best Regards, George
KK, I absolutely want to bring this gun to the field, the thought never crossed my mind to lock her away, assuming she's sound. I'm also a big motorcycle and hot rod nut and the same premise holds true for those things, I never want a trailer queen, I want experience the machine for what it was designed for. But you are correct about the blemish and not having to worry about flawing something pristine. Like my hot rods, I like them with a little age. Then, its not so earth shattering when you get that first scratch or ding ;-).
FWIW, I love all the feedback. I glean a little more knowledge with every post. Thank you all for sharing your insight, opinions and expertise.
Does anyone with more knowledge of this gunmaker know if those screws at the top of the action are hangers for intercepting sears?
Rare to find a boxlock so equipped, but, would suggest top quality.
Best,
Ted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13283157@N03/5426545180/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13283157@N03/5426545676/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13283157@N03/5425944777/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13283157@N03/5425945839/in/photostream/
Pics, hope i did this correctly
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13283157@N03/5425943251/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13283157@N03/5425944209/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13283157@N03/5426548298/in/photostream/
Few more
It sounds like you've got your head on tight about these material things! Motorcycles, cars, guns - You're so right, the trap is there for all these things but they MUST be used! Have fun with that new gun. She really is a beauty. - Marc
Possible dumb question: does the 2 3/4" marking indicate that this gun was rechambered from 2 1/2" or was Francotte chambering this length (for export?) so early?
I've come to "expect" that Continental guns of this vintage were originally chambered for the shorter shells. (I realize one can "expect" ANYTHING in the world of doubles, especially in that era when "custom" was normal.....).
Yes Ted,
I believe they are the sear screws.
All the Francotte BL's I have had...Sideplated or not, featured them..a classy touch, as you note.
Cheers
Franc
I think the 1852 patent is for the firing pin mechanism best I can find. Ive found info about the pistol firing pin patents from around the same era, nothing specific on the sxs
