To continue flogging the proverbial dead horse, I just got the call that my gun is going into production. It seems like the biggest complaint amongst those who have seen and been disappointed in the RBL as delivered is with either the checkering or the engraving. So out curiosity, of those who have actually handled the gun, what is the general consensus on these two finishes? How many observed burnt checkering and how shallow is the engraving?

Reesq,
I had one in my hands a few weeks ago that appeared to have had a malfunction during the checkering and then it was 'gone over again' on the forend. The result was a very deep, black pattern that had no diamonds or disfigured diamonds within a deep recess the shape of a checkering pattern. The only way to recut it would be to refit the metal eschutcheon deeper, refinish the forend and recut the checkering.

The engraving was obviously buffed over.

I'm cancelling my order this week.

I couldn't answer that question but, in the last two weeks I have had three RBL owners contact me about chasing the engraving, Onr man said he was told that he could order the gun without engraving & wanted to consider having it done. Tony told him that the wait would be longer for a plain action sans engraving.
It is my opinion that there wouldn't be enough improvement in the overall look to justify the cost --- I wouldn't do it on mine if I owned a RBL. The only out would be to order a non etched action or have the engraving removed, left plain or re-engraved.
The checkering could be lightly recut enough to get past the burnt fiber & sealed. FWIW, Ken

Ken, Wouldn't the receiver have to be annealed and then rehardened at the end? Pretty extreme for a new gun don't you think? Best, Jake

Jake,
the RBL forgings are machined in the heat treated condition. They are thru hardened 4140 if memory serves and should be in the mid 30's RC. They will file well enough in the hardened condition, albeit take longer than an annealed steel. Tony said this was done to assure precision fit of the parts. Personally, I wouldn't anneal one to prep it. Whether or not an engraver would need it annealed or softened is something I don't have any experience with.

Chuck, sorry to hear about your disappointing experience.

The positive side is that you can now look for something else.

JC(AL)

Jake, 30C on the Rockwell "C" scale is certainly cutable. Many of the pieces I cut (Win 21) are much tougher. It all lies in the eye of the owner as to if the piece should be left as is or re-engraved to represent personal taste.

Please send me an email so I can get you back in my address book --- lost all addresses since computer crashed. Ken

I have had trouble with the "smoked" checkering. It is fragle because it is to deep and narrow based. If you think you are buying more than a nice quality hunting gun you are in trouble.
bill

Gun was ordered with Exhibition black walnut and case to be dark overall. The checkering presents no contrast problems and while definately not hand cut with classic diamonds, its quite attractive, has no irregularity, same with the engraving with the case.-Dick

The checkering on my RBL (#110) is outstanding in every respect, and has gotten favorable comments from all who have seen/handled it. The engraving seems a little shallow and the case coloring somewhat subdued, when comparing it to a wonderfully colored 50's vintage Sauer in my safekeeping. But not to worry, Tony sells case color lacquer #F0050 which is the stuff we used on the Sauer and will be applied to the RBL when I get the stock bent in the spring. Hopefully it will brighten up much like the Sauer did. For the time being, I'm having too much fun shooting Pheasants & Chuckers with the wee delight, to give it up, for now. Then there’s the Grouse shoot at Irwin, PA this Saturday. …Life is good.

Chuck, if you're basing your cancellation on seeing one example, please reconsider. I mean, is it possible that mine is the only "good" one, while your example could be the only one not meeting expectations? Let's all remember, this isn't a $35K bespoke Fox, and IMHO there aren't any shotguns on the market that compare, in looks or quality in this price range.

Thanks for all of the responses. Having gone back and looked over all of the pictures and comments posted on delivered guns on a few of the major shotgun BBSs, a few observations seem to stand out. First, there was clearly a small minority of folks that simply had unrealistic expectations. But that’s to be expected and I can easily discount those posters. Second, despite the production delays and protests to the contrary, at this point there still seems to be a significant quality control issue at CSMC. Typically, this would lead me to take a wait and see attitude, and wait until my gun was delivered to see where it comes up on the quality scale.

The comments/concerns posted by Chuck, however, quite frankly worry me the most because he has been at the forefront of this issue and has been one of the most level headed and practicable voices throughout. So my question to Chuck is, echoing Mike’s sentiments, how many guns have you had the opportunity to examine in hand to cement your concerns? In my mind, the checking is the least of my concerns because if received a gun with the type of checking that you described, I would immediately send it back to be corrected/redone or return the gun at that time. The engraving is clearly more troublesome, because there is no easy fix if it is executed poorly. Now I may in the minority, but quite frankly I never really thought the engraving would be as nice as in the advertised RBL picture, but by the same token, I don’t expect it to look like a stamped job on some sub $2K O/U. Ken, have you had the opportunity to actually examine any sample in hand?

I was pretty good at sitting back and ignoring the fuss for a long time. The problem with too much time, however, is that you start to over think everything, and in that regard I am particularly guilty.

While typing this, I'm on the line with CSM (on hold) to cancel the order.

I have held in hand one production gun and all three or four prototypes. The prototypes looked fine in terms of fit and finish. The one production gun had the obvious malfunction of the checkering machine and had been gone over again. The engraving was buffed over and rounded/washed.

Two customers had ordered "Turkish exhibition". Neither had any black marbling and frankly, looked more like a nice upper-mid grade fiddleback Claro with golds and reds. Not bad, but not what I expected when I ordered and paid $700 for. I did see and photographed at least two Turkish stocks in process for the RBL that I would have been happy with.

But what final issue that caused me to cancel was more the answer that Lou gave one of the customers when he inquired about the wood. This combined with the quality issues, led me to believe that I was going to get whatever they decided I should get, as opposed to what I believe I was led to expect. The risk of waiting another 6 months or more (deposit only 9/29/05) for something that bothered me just didn't seem worth it. I know, a $1k deposit...why not just wait and see what you get? Too much emotional apprehension for me to sustain for that long and with too much risk of being very disappointed. If I knew the gun was within weeks of delivery, I might have waited for what Forest Gump said "...like a box of chocolates...you never know what you're gonna get." I needed to move on.

I hope those that recieved their guns and those that will recieve them in the future are happy with them and they have no issues.

BTW, I completed the phone call to cancel my order.

I had issues with the finish on the stock. CSMC was helpful first two times. Third time Lou told me I could keep it "as is" or return it for a refund. I returned it. Incidentally Chuck H saw some pictures of problems with fit and finish.

Tom McDevitt

Reesq, just caught your post ---- I have already had a few come thru the shop and have to say I am dissapointed in the engraving. There have been three request for me to recut the scroll but I have refused to do so. Reason, the cost (IMHO) would far out weigh any advantage received from re-cutting the etched/lazer burnt lines / I wouldn't do it for myself IF I owned one. . One potential client said Tony offered him the gun with no engraving in the white --- another guy is discussing having the engraving polished off and reengraved to his taste. The gun in itself looks to be a pretty decent piece. Hope this helps, Ken

Most of the people who are complaining are the ones who think
they are getting A $25,000 gun for $2800. PDD

Might have expressed it a bit differently PDD, but there is a lot of truth in the impact of unrealistic expectations. I just purchased a new 28 bore Rizzini with "hand Chased" machine engraving, "high grade" Turkish walnut, and a "hand finished" oil finish, and laser cut checkering. This is an elegant little gun at about the same price point as an RBL. It's fit and finish seems to be about what we are seeing in the RBLs - Burnt checkering, proud wood, machine engraving, etc. It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a Fabri. Ergo, if we are expecting to buy a $2500-3500 gun, I suspect that the vast majority of us will be quite pleased. If we are expecting to take delivery of a Purdy then I am confident we will be unhappy. Personally, I am looking forward to my $3 grand gun.

SS #198 came out fine. Case colors are subtle, which is fine by me. Checkering is regular - obviously machine cut, but no screw-ups. I'm well satisfied with mine.

For some reason when this gun is in my hands and my dogs are out front I have no issues with thin engraving and bad checkering. But hey, that's just me.



.

Mark, I suppose if I ordered one and was sure I was getting one like yours I'd be ok.

The problem is not knowing what you are going to get after a looooong wait.

JC(AL)

As opposed to a $2.5K SxS? Compare oranges to oranges.

The base price for the RBL was $2500 if paid up front and I believe $2800 if you didn't. Any more money spent was put into options, of which the engraving was not one. Take away the cost of the case and accessories and there's not really much of a difference, if any, in cost between the two.

The only pictures of production guns I've seen have looked fine. I've handled some prototypes and they also looked fine. Can someone post pictures of a gun with bad engraving or bad checkering?

Mark, What stock grade did you order? Great looking by the way.... Thanks for your great photos!

Beautiful gun Mark. I wish I could own one that nice. I still think they are good guns. I just can't stand to play roulette and end up with one like my friend's. Yours obviously doesn't have any of the things I saw on the one production gun I had in hand.

With regard to what I expected, I went to the factory and saw guns in various stages of completion and they checkered a forend while we were there. I expected my friend's gun to look like that. It didn't. My post is not intended to offend those that have RBLs or hope to have them. I'm just posting what I saw.

BTW,
I went another direction with the RBL money. I hope to have it in hand by the end of next week.

Recoil Bob, To clarify, when I meant sub $2,000, I guess I was really comparing the engraving on something like a Franchi to the engraving on my B. Rizzinis. In my mind, the engraving on the Franchis I have seen are substantially inferior to the Rizzinis, which I put in the same general price category as the RBL. Now, going one step further, in my mind the engraving on the Rizzinis are adequate, not great, but adequate and represent the minimum level that I expect on the RBL. I had certainly hoped, that given Tony’s reputation, the engraving would be better than my Rizzinis, but I would not be overly disappointed if it was equal (after all, hope does spring eternal). Perhaps I’ve been spoiled because may of the guys I shoot with have high-end guns with spectacular hand engraving so I am somewhat jaded, but not so jaded that I don’t recognize the difference between a $2-3K gun and a $25K+ gun. BTW, nice looking gun Chuck...details...

next week, reesq,... more next week.

I agree with pittypat (how in the heck did you ever get a name like this? You guys buying these RBLs have to keep in mind a few issues- the same way I looked at the project when I first saw the ad way back when....... A nice piece of Claro Walnut ALONE- for just a blank is going to run in the neighborhood of two grand. Or a lot more. Price them- you'll see. Take the rest of the project from there (add $500.00) and think about it. Or you can look at it another way- for $2500.00 you are going to be getting a gun that is equal to a Gold Label PLUS $500.00. You are going to end up with a $2500.00 gun. Nothing more- nothing less. I am not saying you are getting a good gun or a bad one. But you are going to get a new $2500.00 gun. At least this is the way I looked at it when they first started taking orders: "Do I want a new gun that is going to be $500.00 better than a Gold Label?" Or, "Do I want a gun that the wood alone will cost over $2000.00 and the rest of the gun is only going to have $500.00 in it?" That was always my POV, anyway.

A decent blank of Claro for $2k!?

I think you can get spectacular English for $2k. Though extremely nice, none of the guns that I have seen photos of so far have $2k/blank wood on them in my opinion. Not even close.

I would expect that a shotgun with a base price of $2500 would be pretty darn nice gun with decent fit, finish, and checkering (even though machined). I don't get the impression that anyone here was expecting a gun of a quality worth an order of magnitude more.

I prefer old guns, but the guns that folks are showing pictures of sure like quite fine to me. Very fine as a matter of fact and I would say they are worth what the quoted prices have indicated. I have yet to see any photos of the problem guns so it's impossible to make judgement about what some folks are calling "disappointing" or "unacceptable".

And two year waits are nothing - and broken delivery time promises are the rule, not the exception, in the gun world. Not long ago, a Shiloh Sharps, or a Mecham Highwall were 5+ yr waits.Now a Shiloh is "only" 18 months - the Mecham, probably 7 yrs. Heck I've been waiting on my barrel promised in "just" 16 wks. That was back in mid September. A semicustom gun takes time and lots of it.

Brent

Guys I don't have any pics of my friend's gun. He lives 100 miles from me. I talked him into buying the RBL from a seller off this website. I am not particularly anxious to point out the flaws of the gun to him and publically disrobe his gun. I had thought of asking to borrow it and drag it up to Vegas and ask CSM about it at the show. I'm sure if asked about it over the phone, they would not even want to talk to me or my friend about fixing it.

If I get a chance, I'll try to shoot some pics. It may be months before I see the gun.

the wood I have seen is not that great. It is OK, but you can do much better buying a blank on your own. I do price them almost weekly and have my (very) little stash of walnut. it is more like a $200-450 blank I am seeing on the RBL's, depending on the gun.

I am not knocking the guns in any way at all-just saying the above comparison seems out of whack with what I see.

Of course I would love to be wrong. If I am, then I am selling several sticks of English next week!!!

Sure Marc. Then go take that exhibition grade 500 buck blank and see what it will cost you to turn it into a fitted stock on the SxS of your choice. And I almost forgot, see how long that stockmaker takes to create that new handle. Jeez guys, its a NIB 3 grand gun with a remarkable number of options which are never available in that price range...... Nothing more, but certainly nothing less. But do please keep cancelling those orders; my gun moves further up in the que.

Jimmy W was not saying any labor was involved, the blank alone cost that much in his observations of monitoring current blank prices. He was very clear on that point, as was I in pointing out my observations were quite different from his. I also said if he saw where folks were paying that price for the quality of wood shown, I would sell several blanks next week.

As for the labor, I know that I personally would not stock it for $2k labor. Every one has their price point for their work, and mine is above that.

I am not really sure how you could get confused by our posts, but obviously it did happen. I am sorry that I was not more clear. Seriously, I am sorry I did not do a better job of making the point the first time. Perhaps I ahould have included his words in quotes. I honestly feel bad because it seems I have upset you.

and again, let me say none of my post was a knock on the gun in any way shape or form. I was just saying the quoted was radically different from anything I have seen.

I may have been a little high in my pricing of a blank of Claro Walnut. But to have it checkered by hand, it will easily cost in the $2000.00 range. English Walnut and Turkish Walnut will cost you a lot more. But the point I was trying to make was when they came out, I considered ordering one and I had to decide if I wanted to pay that much for a new gun. I won't degrade them or say how great they must be because I have never used one. But I had to decide if I wanted a new gun that was $500.00 over the price of a Gold Label. Are they $500.00 better? If they are, then that is what one should expect. Or are they X amount of dollars better than the new guns that are coming out today? I don't know. That is why some of us didn't want to take the chance.

Since it was my comments that likely triggered this debate, I'll put my 2 cents in as to how I saw the wood issue that finally caused my decision.

This gun was ordered with a $700 option, above the base price, for "exhibition Turkish".



This is the closest example of a Turkish blank I could find to match from Hunterbid.com . It's not a perfect match, but I think it is very close in grade. It has the color and figure fairly close. Debateable, yes. But splitting hairs I think you'll all agree. Both the RBL wood and the Hunterbid wood have little if any black line marbling and have similar color/figure/fiddleback/wavyness.







Well that blank is a $240 "Flash Buy" blank. http://hunterbid.com/cgi-bin/woodauction/Auction/XcAPViewItem.asp?ID=3881


For $700 or less at Hunterbid, you can have much nicer wood. Remember, you are buying retail at Hunterbid, so it should be at least a fair comparison IMO. Wood blank vs. upgrade option.
http://hunterbid.com/cgi-bin/woodauction/Auction/XcAPViewItem.asp?ID=3711

http://hunterbid.com/cgi-bin/woodauction/Auction/XcAPViewItem.asp?ID=3710

http://hunterbid.com/cgi-bin/woodauction/Auction/XcAPViewItem.asp?ID=3988

http://hunterbid.com/cgi-bin/woodauction/Auction/XcAPViewItem.asp?ID=3709

http://hunterbid.com/cgi-bin/woodauction/Auction/XcAPViewItem.asp?ID=3765

http://hunterbid.com/cgi-bin/woodauction/Auction/XcAPViewItem.asp?ID=3871

http://hunterbid.com/cgi-bin/woodauction/Auction/XcAPViewItem.asp?ID=3932

JMO, but when the RBLs are built as advertised, shown, and like Mark's, they are worth every bit of their price. My concern was quality related then the wood issue on top. Quality issues are typically variables e.g. you get some good ones and some bad ones. I don't want a bad one nor one with lower grade Turkish or whatever species wood. CSM showed me they were inconsistant in quality. BTW, my order was $4,000.00 with my options. I expected the checkering and engraving to look at least as good as my $2400 Citori 525 Sporting.

This is what I expected

Tough to make that kind of comparison with two decidedly different marketing plans. Connecticut Shotgun is the manufacturer, distributor, and retailer of the RBL,
as well as most of the other guns they produce. They get to keep ALL the profit, rather than allowing distributors and dealers to figure in their cut as is done with Ruger. I suspect that if C.S.M.C. employed a more conventional distribution/sales network, the price of the RBL to the customer would be 40-50% higher.

Until the shutdown of production, Ruger probably sold the GL to distributors for somewhere in the $1200-1300 range. Even now with the new MSRP of $2650 for the GL, and if production ever resumes; Ruger will probably be getting around $1800 from the distributors, and that's with a reasonable profit factored in.

Gotta wonder what Remington pays Tony to make a $49,000 Parker.

If Chuck's RBL example was purchased as exhibition grade, then I have to agree with Chuck. His show-and-tell example is hard to disagree with....Did the owner of the referenced RBL complain to CSM about the lower grade wood on the gun?...

Oops, I mistated what the hunterbid blank was. It must have been subliminal. That $240 blank is a Claro blank not Turkish. I didn't intend that comparision but it upholds my first reaction to the wood on the RBL. Heck I didnt' realize Murat (Hunterbid.com) sold and Claro. But there it is, the closest match I could find an it's Claro.

Doug,
Yes.

It looks to me like the barrel engraving on Mark's gun covers more area, and it's crisper looking than that in posted pictures of a more recent gun. I like Mark's just fine, but am afraid they've gone to a cheaper process now. Mine was ordered in Dec. 05, so I've got some time left to debate with myself about this.

Chuck-
What was CSM's response to his wood grade complaints?

Doug,
Secondhand to me was that Lou said it was indeed Turkish and "exhibition" grade.

In my e-mail recieved from Mr. Galazan he explained that some customers did not receive the proper grade of wood they paid for. He said he offered to have it restocked, or refund the differance. It might worth it to call CSMC.

This gun was ordered with Exhibition Black Walnut with the following clarification: Exhibition Black Walnut with full feather crotch on the right side of the stock like Winchester 21's from the Custom Shop. The feather is full and has a wonderful play of colors as you rotate the stock.
Someone tell me where I can get a better blank for the same money?-Dick

Well I finally contacted CSMC about the engraving -- in particular the change in the barrel engraving -- and Rich Wilson told me the following:

- the new barrel engraving is cut, crisp and sharp, and deeper than before;
- the engraving process is the same for barrels and frame;
- barrel engraving appearance is consistent with the frame;
- they allow orders that specify no barrel engraving (as TK did).

I sure wish I could see one firsthand. Just don't much like the look of current barrel engraving in the one good photo I've seen. More photos of current production guns, anyone?

Dick, very nice. Funny, when I was deciding on what wood to get, I gave Lou almost exactly the same description of what I wanted as you did, and he told me that the exhibition Black Walnut would be the way to go. Yours is the quality that I am expecting. I hope mine comes out as well. When did you receive your gun? Was it an early delivery or one of the more recent deliveries? Also, what is your opinion of the engraving and what finish did you get?

I patd $400. for a American black walnut blank from Cecil Fredi. The stock has more intensity in figure and is a mirrow image on both sides. Am not playing "mine is better than yours." FWIW, Ken

This blank was also from Cecil a couple years ago. $600

Sayyy Mr. Chuck, that's a mighty fine looking set of blanks ! Mine looks like the bottom blank except the figure runs straight up the middle of the blank and spreads completely out to the edges. Must have come from a monster tree. Ken

Nitro,

It was exhibition claro and thank you for the compliment.

Well I just picked up #307 from my FFL guy. I can live with the checkering and the engraving, not sure I got my 700 bucks worth on the wood upgrade. Both sides and ends of the forend are damaged where they butt against the barrel flats. I guess I'll be finding out how good the customer service department is shortly. By the way mine was a 10-12-05 deposit / 04-03-06 paid in full order. Have to wonder how I ended up with 307??

I have the same problem with it hitting the plate at the bottom of the barrels. I just dropped mine off at the Connecticut show Saturday. Lou took it back without a second glance and said he would turn it around quickly for me. I think you will have no problem getting it repaired under warranty.

Ordered my RBL PIF on 11.29.05. Cancelled today and got my money back. Enough is enough. And when I asked about interest on my $3,000, she laughed outloud. I'm going to spend half the money and send my old Parker 16 VH to Turnbull for restoration. That way I can have another year with something to look forward to.

Tom, congrats on finally getting yours, there's still a couple of grouse hunts left this month. I'd like to get together sometime and see your exhibition upgrade. Give me a call.

Are you going to order a new car and wait 15 mo too?


I didn't think so!

Enjoy! Joe Z.

Tom,
Glad to hear you got your RBL! In a way your a lotto winner, from my observations your the first deposit gun to be delivered.

The #307 is fairly easy to explain. CSMC is batch building these and your's was in a batch that higher #'s were finished and delivered before your's this has been seen several times already with deliveries.

The bigger question is how you were lucky enough to be put ahead of the September and October 2005 Paid in Full guy's that are still waiting for the call from Carol?

On second thought how you got ahead of the Sept 05 thru April 06 Paid if full orders.

You need to buy some lotto ticket's while your hot!

I agree...It can't hurt to try and get them to restock it... (To be honest I've got nicer wood on some of my older field-grade M37s....)

Ken turned me on to Cecil. I have purchased 2 English walnut stocks from him and am currently looking at some wood for a mauser action.

Here is one I purchased that was special. It is for a 44XL that I am going to restock. I paid $250 for this, because of the small dimensions.





Pete

Any idea how many total orders are on the books? What's the highest serial number so far? (I wonder if it's exact sequence or random spot delivery... Anyone have an idea?

Pete,
Also check out Jim Preslik 4245 Keith Ln. Chico, CA 95973 (530) 891-8236 http://www.presliksgunstocks.com/

This was $500 from him with a forend.

All these blanks that you guys are showing doesn't look very big. Is there enough wood to get a buttstock AND a forearm out of it? And no offense but the stock that Chuck has hanging on end, I agree, that's about a $500.00 piece of wood. A $2000.00 piece of wood will have the figure all the way through it, not just on the end. And those Hunterbid stocks don't have any feathering at all in them. So, I would say that is about right for those stocks. If you go to someone like Brent Umberger or a good stocker you will really see some fabulous wood. And it doesn't come cheap. That is why your more expensive guns cost so much. One of the reasons is the wood alone will run $2-5000.00. But on a $2500.00 gun, you are going to get a $500-750 piece of wood. And as far as the difference between the GL and the RBL and the marketing bit, you better believe that CSM will be getting a nice profit from the RBL. And that is all you should expect. I think you some of you are just expecting too much from a $2500.00 gun. On a $1500.00 gun now days, you'll end up with that paper wrap around a sawdust stock. Looks purty, though. Good luck.

Jimmy
separate piece for the forend.

That's the problem, Chuck. Is it from the same blank? If it is from two different pieces of wood, that's is why it is so cheap. But, I don't want to argue. If you guys are happy, I'm happy.

$1500 won't buy much at Turnbull's these days. You will be lucky to get a partial restoration of an already decent VH 16 for $3000. Doug quoted $5K+ to redo my 16 VHE, and it was OK to start with.

Chuck H,

Thanks, nice wood on his site. At those prices, I may purchase a few just because.

Jimmy W,

All of Cecil's 2 piece stocks come with a matching forend. He has 30,000 blanks in stock. Incredible selection! You email him your wants and price range. He keeps sending pictures until you find something you like. Dakota Arms and Fred Wenig buy from him among others.



Pete

Here's an interesting Turkish Walnut rifle blank I'm having made into a custom stock for a Win. 70 in .375 H&H. I bought this from a company called Denli A.H. in Switzerland (their mill is in Turkey.) They have lots of nice looking Circassian Walnut on their site if anyone is interested. I'll post the link below, as well.

DeWayne

[img]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/sonvolt/739-220.jpg?t=1168588341[/img]

http://home.tiscalinet.ch/denli/

Well, maybe I have been looking in the wrong place for stocks?

Jimmy- Have you contacted Pete Hiat? He's an advertiser on this board so he can be found with the list of advertisers. All these years on this board, I've only heard one complaint and as it unfolded it proved meritless. Might give him a look.

Cary

RBL #3X received in November I believe. could have received it in Sept but I said I wanted all the engraving.
Case color finish. Engraving is as good as any machined type out there even under 7X.-Dick

This was a $2500 blank a few years ago purchased from John Ramagli of Kolar personally. Kolar works in English walnut. I spent a morning in the thier wood room looking at blanks. I found nothing. I don't like English walnut but american black with full feather.
The RBL stock is as nice on the other side as the pictured side.
CSMC delivered exactly what I wanted at a reasonable price. Before i purchased the blank from John, i had all the individuals that sell blanks listed above send me pictures. Not one met my needs. When I explained the problem to John, he reached into a cabinet in his office and pulled out the pictured piece of wood. I then wrote another check to John. When the gun is ready for refinishing, the engraving will be upgraded. the engraving pictured is 'old style' Kolar.
I don't really care for anything other than feather crotch American Black Walnut and CSMC fully met my expectations.

-Dick

Dick,
Now that is nice!!!

Dick,
Very very good lookin guns, both. I wished I could have felt assured I'd have gotten as good an RBL as you and Mark.

Hi Mark,

Spectacular. I ordered identical config December 20th 06. I saw few pictures of great exibition black walnut since and that made me uncertain if I made the right choice of wood but your gun gave me confort that Claro could be just as nice and in your case even better. I thin I will stick with it. My only little concern is that since I ordered toward end of the year even that I paid in full my gun will be made toward the end of the run. I worry that quality might slip by then. But there is no better alternative. It would be a nightmare for me if I did not ordered and even worse ordered and then canceled. These guns will be worth at least 2 times as much by the time the last ones will be delivered. Not that it would matter to me since I do not sell any gun I buy no matter what it is but I would not be able to afford to pay that much more for it by then. Enjoy.

You really think people will be able to get $7k for a case colored exhibition wood RBL in two years?

That would make Parker Repros seem like the bargain of a century by comparison...

The prettiest wood I ever saw on a gun was a stock made with birdseye maple. There were so many "eyes" in the wood- it was gorgeous. The only thing was that it was on a Silver Seitz and the price was $12,000.00 I thought about it for days but decided not to. Boy that hurt.

How does one contact Cecil Fredi?

http://www.gunstockblanks.com/

Maybe I'm all wet on my thinking about the RBL wood upgrades.

Here is how I looked at it when I ordered my gun with exibition turkish. The gun comes with a base offer 2X wood on it. This should be valued somewhere between $250.00 to $350.00 for the blank. When you upgrade they do not discount the basic blank price and give you a $700.00 blank as a replacement. Your upgraded wood should reflect the basic price plus your extra money added to it.

With this in mind I'm expecting the value of around a $1000.00 blank, not a $700.00 one.

I have purchased from Cecil Fredi in the past and was happy with the experience. The blank I purchased was a stick of English that I paid $650.00 for and would put up against most of the RBL wood I've seen posted yet.

I'm not saying the guns that have been posted so far aren't nice. I am questioning if your really getting what you paid for!


I've been trading Parker-repro's over the last several years and have had several with great wood on them. Even at today's prices you can find a new re-pro 20ga with great wood in the price range of the RBL with a few up-grades on it. You can get pictures of the Re-pro and see it before you purchase it and know what your getting! But this is the chance we all took buying the RBL sight unseen.

Bet your money Take your chances!

But, at least with the RBL, if you don't like the gun when it finally arrives, Tony will refund your "bet." All you are out is the opportunity cost of your deposit or PIF. And isn't anticipation half the fun?

It looks like Cantwell's is going out of business. Maybe some deals?

Don't know much about them myself

http://www.cantwellwood.com/

Will Tony refund your money because you don't like the figure of wood on it? I don't know because I've never asked this question when talking with Carol.

The only gun's that I know of that have been returned/refunded had been returned for other problems "I.E. mechanical or finish problems" and the customers requested a refund. Even with these CSMC wanted the chance to repair them first.

The common sense tactic for Tony would be to offer to replace your wood with another stock set in an attempt to make a customer happy. Has anyone heard of one refunded because a customer didn't like the wood?

By the way: What is Galazans refund policy on the RBL? Can you send it back for a full refund for any reason once they have sent it to you? I can't rememeber ever reading anything about a refund policy for it!

I haven't bothered Carol since October, so I guess I'll call tomorrow to check on my "December" delivery. Will try to clarify return/refund policy.

Mr. Galazan offered a full refund if I was not satisfied. Please see my post in the last installment of the RBL Saga that ran on this board about two weeks ago. It contained an e-mail I recieved from the BOSS himself.

Thanks. That's what I thought I had read.

Will he return your money AFTER you have fired the gun or only before?