Just how much "killing power" do you think the .410 has? How do you define it?

I'm ready for this. Bring it!

Chuck, as much power as can be had from an 11/16th oz. load with a shot sring long enough to make lots of lethal hits pretty hard. The reason some clain the 28 ga. to have such unexpected success is (they claim) the shot arrives in a pancake pattern. JM2CW. Your lovely little Nitro Special is a gun anyone would admire. Chops

The 410, per individual shot or BB has the same killing power or energy as the 10 gauge at the same velocities. However, the small amount of shot and the long shot string make for some fairly skimpy patterns beyond say 25 yards.

21

Within 10 yards, about the same as a .41 magnum.

Further away, somewhat less.

The .410 will cleanly take a clay pigeon at 25 yards with a load of 1/2 oz. hard lead 9's at 1300 fps MV, through a .007" choke. Centered, that's a dead clay even edge on. Past 25 yards, all bets are off.

I don't hunt with one since I can't shoot an ultralight gun very well at all and that's really the only selling point of a field 410.

Chuck: I have to agree with Shotgun Jones on this one. The .410 bore will kill well within 25 yards in the hands of an expert. I have dove hunted with one effectively on doves coming to decoys and have even shot quail with one, but I think I was just showing off. I think even in the hands of an expert, they cripple game more so than a 12, 16 , 20 and 28 gauge. Just my opinion though. Michael MacIntosh made the statement that the .410 just has wierd ballistics and I think he was right. He felt they were not well suited for game guns, I believe.

I pushed my boy to jump from the .410 to the 20 gauge for next year because he just couldn't kill a squirrel with it. He knocked one A%$ over tin cups out of a tree and it hit the ground, shook it self off and climbed right back up.
CHAZ

Compared with 28 gauge on up...Minimal.

I witnessed a young lady shooting live hand trown birds yesterday with a 410. She was shooting 3" #6's at 1400 fps. I was impressed! I would use all the gun I could get but I was AMAZED at what SHE did with a 410. Personally, my LC Smith 410 is only used for rabbits. I got tired of chasing wounded doves but that is just me.

40 years ago I watched my buddy hit 4 pheasants on opening day with a .410 double and not kill one, at least not quick enough to bring one to bag. He was knocking them sideways and feathers were flying but all were able to fly off. That was the last time he used that gun.

I use a 410 for doves and quail.
The doves are decoyed in and the quail are pointed by dogs.
The 410 has plenty of power in this setting
So far in 5 years, no lost doves or quail
BUT I am selective on my shots
Mike

First gun was a single shot .410 and I used it to take jackrabbits, pheasants and partridge back in South Dakota in the late 70s and early 80s.

In the early 90s I picked up a used Win 101 and have used it with 3" 4 shot on opening weekend to kill pheasants still because the birds are less wild then and they sit tighter and shorter shots are common. I still have the gun, but now use it's 20 gauge brother now as my pheasant gun.

I didn't start my own kids on the 410, instead using the 20 gauge mainly due to ease of finding shells for it and volume of shot sent down range to improve odds of bringing down what was in the sites.

I think the .410 should be outlawed for hunting.

Hogwash!

Sorry....I hear they are great for washing hogs

When I lived in Maryland on the Chesapeake my friends dad would shoot geese over decoys with a single shot .410. I watched him do it several times. Range was about 20 paces and headshots only.

jOe
If you don't believe in something, than it should be outlawed for the rest of us? How very liberal of you.
Steve

oLd jOe's beliefs are as counterfeit as he is.

Went out to wash the hogs, came back with this.

I think the .410 is fine as a field gun for those who shoot a given .410 well, are truly excellent shots with any guage shotgun, can estimate range very accurately, are willing to pass on questionable shots, and have taken the time to pattern their .410 and REALLY experiment with it to find the best load for each type of game.

That is truly a select few. (.410 Outlaws?).

I've SEEN all kinds of upland game taken with .410s by people like this. Also turkeys. Never seen it used for waterfowl except jump shooting ducks as targets of opportunity when hunting grouse.

For the rest of us, it's a fun gun to miss clays with, the best cottontail gun ever made, a snake blaster, and OK for "up close and personal in the henhouse."

Last October, I went out with my Win 42 in eastern South Dakota. Couldn't find any hogs, so I washed 5 roosters. All got fully washed.

I purchased a hammer .410 this past year thinking it would be a great little rabbit gun...... and it was for the rabbit.It is light and furn to carry but after being humbled by poor shooting ability and 1/2 oz loads I had to go back to my 12 to save my reputation.I think I want to trade it for a .20s/s or the 28.
monty

Chuck: If you had an English Pointer and a little bigger gun you might have more than one quail in that picture above?? Just kiddin....that is a beautiful bird! What kind of .410er is that in the picture? I couldn't quite tell with your hand over the receiver.

Buzz,
That's a Ithaca NID, 28", ejector, Field (or Star) grade. The ejectors are a step up from common, 28" tubes make it fairly rare.

The Mearns quail were very scarce in southern Arizona this past season, and I promised my friend I wouldn't take more than a couple if he showed me his hunting grounds.

If my new pointer is worth what I'm gonna have to pay for her, I should be able to go down to a Daisy Red Rider. Maybe I can save enough on ammo that it makes the cost of the dog just expensive.

it is a simple problem - the ability to put the small payload where it belongs. I'm not a fan of the 410, I got my daughter a 20ga O/U to start. If one has the ABILITY to solve the problem, it will work.

We were shooting an informal round of trap, when we were warming up everyone had 12's except for this old guy was shooting a 20. When we got down to business, he went in and pulled out a very old browning 410 o/u and proceeded to school every man on the line. That right there is a humbling experience.

Guess the old guy was an outlaw and didn't relize it.....

Gary

Gary,
When I bought 'lil blue', I took it out to shoot a round of trap with it first. Old habit I can't explain. I was #5 on the line with a bunch I'd never met, since I rarely shoot trap. They all had blinders and vests with patches all over and singleshot guns with tall ribs. They looked at my short barreled .410 and there was some respectful chatter. I asked them to be gentle. We shot from the 16 yd line. I pulled a 23 out of my axe. (probably couldn't do it twice) That was high score for the squad. I guess I distracted them enough to get them out of their rhythm or something.

Beautiful Mearn's(Montezuma) Quail, Chuck. They are "trophy" quail, hope you had it mounted.
.410s are wonderful. I love my M 42 and I just added a new Marlin L.C. Smith (Zabala) to the "gun rack". It's a much nicer gun than I first though it would be.

Mornin' Chuck;
Not to get off topic, or pirate your thread.....spent the last few minutes looking at your shotgun. Were those Nitros or 311s the same frame that was used on A grade Lefever Skeet specials? Thinking there may be enough extra metal on one to do some serious re shaping if I could find one that is really clapped out, and needs to be redone. Any of you folks know? Anyone tried it?
Kraft

I had both a 410 and 20 gauge NS at the same time and when I compared the frames it appears that the width is the same but top to bottom the .410 frame is thinner by may be 0.5" or more. Also the .410 barrels are really thick in the chamber area.
Steve

Kraft,
I dunno what is common to the A Grade. That's a Walt question.

Both this gun and another plain brown NS .410 I have is for sale. You can hack on either of them if you buy em. The plain brown one is in good mechanical condition and just needs prettying up.

Just shot my first 410 straight at skeet today. It's taken me about 1,000 targets to get this far. The thing is quite demanding of good technique.

In the end, I'll be a better shooter. But... this is a 7.75 lb target gun.

I find the trick is to not even look at the dinky shell when loading, and just pretend it's a 12 gauge. Don't change anything, don't compensate, don't 'aim', don't try sustain lead on targets that don't require it. Just shoot.

Still, I don't have the ability to shoot a sub six lb. gun so the 410 is a target gun only...

Jonesy,
Congratulations!

I had so many "almost" straights with that Nitro above. I finally gave up.

Shotgun Jones: Congratulations on your first 25 straight with the .410er. Just remember, the first 25 is always the hardest. It will get easier from here out and before long, if you keep at it, you will be working on your first 100 straight! When I was a kid, just learning to shoot, I was at the Nationals in Savannah, Georgia. Low and behold, Fred Missildine was watching me shoot a light weight Browning superposed .410. He walked up to me and said: "Son, you are stopping your swing with that light little .410 Hold a loose forearm and place your left hand closer to the receiver." I took his advice and my scores jumped up immediately. I think the key to shooting a light gun is holding a loose forearm...really, any gun for that matter. Just my 2 cents worth and I hope I didn't offend you by making this suggestion. Regards, Buzz

Hardly buzz, thanks for the tip.

I get the idea about bringing the forehand in to increase the pivot speed.

The grip strength I'll have to think about. I think my forestock clench is pretty loose naturally. Even after all these years, I still do the 'pointy finger bit', ie index finger pointed downrange at the target. It just feels natural.

Thanks for the words of encouragement, I'll report back on the 100.

For fun up here we have rat shoots. When the hay bales are going to be chopped on the ranches, the neighbors gather with shotguns to shoot the rats. My buddies use 12 bores but my gun of choice for these fun shoots is my little Remington 11-48 .410 auto.

410s are neat lil guns!
My friend use my old bolt action 410 to kill his first Michigan buck back in the late 70s.
30 paces with a 3 inch slug. Dropped dead in the track!
I don't have one now but if I did I'd use it on bunnies and such.
Worse thing I ever did was bad mouth a mans mod 42, I still feel bad about that to this day.

.410 slugs are constantly discounted by guys that will happily go after a deer in the woods with a .357 handgun. They need to read the ballistic tables. I wouldn't choose a .410 for deer but if you get it sighted in (and actually have sights), it will definitely do a deer at woods distances, assuming you can wait for a decent shot. (Like NOT when the deer is going Mach 3). I've done that with a little blacktail fork horn that visited my friend's apple orchard in the fall; gun was a Savage Model 24 with a Weaver K1.5 on it. I was doing jackrabbit patrol when I ran into this guy.

I think we should outlaw HomelessjOe from this site!!

If my bad shoulders keep getting worse, then I may be carrying one before it's all said and done. If it wern't for the potential grouse - it would be fun to carry one for timberdoodles......

Gary

Steve, Betcha I know where that NS 410 is hidin!

Ya, but I betcha don't know where that 20 gauge NS (Gambles Ace)is hiding.
How's that 410 been working for you? I know that I took a bunch of pen-raised pheasants with that little honey. I hope you've had as much fun with it as I did.
Steve

Nonsense! Joe provides many good laughs and beside that, I like him. Did he have a bit part in Deliverance? Chops

When I was in the serivce in Germany (66-67) I belonged to the Rod & Gun Club in the small kasern I was stationed at. A retired Sargent Mayor ran the club and was always getting great deals on guns. I had ordfered a 20 ga. Winchester 101 ($165.85) when they first came out in June of 1967 I believe, sent it home in a Leg-O-Mutton case.
In the gun rack for the longest time was a Remington 11-48 .410 with 25" ventilated barrel, improved cylinder for $103.00 I bought it on lay-away and kept it in the arms room (I was an MP, so no problem getting to it.) I got to know a German civilian on post that was a fire man and somehow the conversation went to hunting. I told him what I had in the arms room and he said,"what are you going to kill with that?". He shot a 20 ga. Franki autoloader, and I told him I would kill as much as him with his gun. Come to find out his father owned much land in the next town and he invited me to a morning hunt with him, his son and the father.
In order to hunt in Germany then, you had to have at least 400 acres of land, a dog that would follow scent for a few hundred yards, retrieve, and if there was water, had to retrieve in water. (government officals would check on this). Also it took about 6 months to get a license, but he told me not to worry about that, as no one would ask.
I found some .410 shells in the local town, 3" paper, waxed. For the first hunt in the morning we hunted along a stream running through the property. We split up walking along the stream, and a few teal (cinnamon ?) jumped up and I shot the one and it fell on the other side. The fellow I knew came with his dog and asked it I shot at something and I told him a teal, I said it fell on the other side and I could just make out the breast color. He didn't believe it but sent the dog across the stream and in no time found it. I also shot a drake mallard and tried to shoot another but the gun jammed. Found out it was the wax, so I had to scrap all the wax from the shells in order to shoot more than once.
We later hunted a plowed field and the dog (German Shorthair) went on point. He told me if was a hasse (hare) but I couldn't see it, he told me to look for black eye, I finally saw it and he told me to walk up to it, it got up but was too close, he kept on saying shoot it, I finally did and killed it stone dead, when the dog brought it back, and I hung it on my belt the ears were dragging the ground, it weighed about 10 lbs.

I could go on and on with the birds and hares I shot with this gun, including Hungarian Partridge, more ducks.
The afternoon hunts were with large parties that were invited to hunt and all of the game went to the landowner to be sold in the local town, and on this particular hunt my friend said they were going to hunt the border of the property and if any pheasants got up shoot them, because the neighbor was shooting pheasants earlier than his father wanted to (birds weren't fully feathered, and wouldn't bring as much money as later on). A cock pheasant took of near me and I waan't expecting it, and fumbled for the safety, and by the time I pushed it off and fired, it was out there, I hit it but not enough to kill it and he finished it. After all the things I shot with that little gun and he never said anything, now he finally said, "see, I told you your gun was too small for hunting."

I hunted with him a few more times before my duty was over and shot more game. In the evenings, we would get in a tree stand and wait for the game to come out of the fields, and they only thing that didn't want me to shoot was any Rae deer.

I remember the father shot a Saur drilling, and in the fathers house eating dinner, on one wall was the father's Rae horrn, stag horns, Wild Boar tucks, my firends wall, and his son's wall all with their trophies.

Great memories and great times. Still have the .410, looks like new and have used it hear for pheasants and quail. Missed a triple on wild quail, the miss was a crossing cock from left to right, and I mean easy.

So the killing power of a .410 in my opinion is no less that a 10 ga. You just have to know your limitations.

David,
Thanks for relating that experience. Nothing you took with that gun surprises me after using a .410 in earnest for a few yrs now.

I haven't used it a whole lot Steve, mostly out back dustin the starlings and such. But it sure is a fun little gun!
Curtis