This topic is sure to ruffle a few feathers. Please only comment if you have something constructive to add. I have a bad bad desire for a double rifle. A true DR is not in the cards right now. I was thinking about getting a shotgun conversion done. What would be the best type of shotgun to convert? Are there actions that are generally stronger than others? What should I look for in a gun to convert. Once again I know this will bother a few BB members, and I understand why, but unless you want to give away a DR, this is my only option.

Anyone else done this?

Thanks

Alex

I'm interested in the same. I would think that something like a Lefever Nitro would do the job, but I'm not sure. jd6729

I've seen .577's done on Greener actions.

Alex,

I suggest you do a search and post your inquiry on NitroExpress.com. There is a lot of information on this topic at that site. That BBS is more focused on double rifles than any other BBS I know of.

Hope this helps,
Curl

A good one to use is the Browning BSS. They are quite strong although there is no top fastener; and also fairly common, and realativly inexpensive. However, by the time you are finished with a reasonably good job of conversion, you will have spent almost as much as you would on a decent British BPE rifle. Your conversion would have little resale value unless very well done, whereas an original will always have value to someone. Most conversions I have seen are very heavy relative to caliber; that is unless you are building a .577 or .500 nitro.

All the best, Mal

There was gunsmith down in TX that would do this conversion and as I recall it was somewhere in the area of $500 - $1000. He used eccentric inserts for regulating.

He would only do it to 45-70 and only on guns with a third fastener, preferably a Greener crossbolt.

Can't remember who it was though. Wish I could I have a perfect candidate, an H. Pieper with Greener & set front trigger.

Here's some info on another one.

Shotgun-Double Rifle

Could you scratch the DR itch with a pair of rifle tube inserts ala Frankonia in Germany? This should keep you with things salible at a reasonable portion of your cost. Then, have a look at Chapuis DRs and start a warchest. Time will pass quicker than you imagine, a dedicated warchest will build faster than you imagine, and you will have a chance to figure out exactly where that 'ole itch is anyway.

If you can't keep focus long enough to build a warchest, you may not want it as bad as you think; been there, done that, and got several "tee shirts" to prove it. Got no objections to using a BSS (or similar) for a DR platform. However, be very sure that the end result will really scratch what is itching you.

I am talking with a converter right now, Jason. He says he does Stoegers, Merkels, Hulu's ...as the doner shotgun.

I want a short, very abuse resistant, take it into the densest, nastiest brush conditions and be confident it will work everytime double. Jason has priced me up doing a stoeger coach gun, 12 gauge, stainless receiver into a 50-90 Sharps double rifle... Seems intriguing. I'm waiting on pictures and some more details right now.

And I also like the idea of a building up a war-chest. I am hoping to do BOTH.

Try this: Ellis is a great guy who's done a ton of research on this subject. I've shot some of his conversions.

BUILDING DOUBLE RIFLES ON SHOTGUN ACTIONS.
by Brown, W. Ellis.
Publisher Information:
Bunduki Publishing Ft. Collins, CO 2001


This book is written to take the gunsmith or advanced hobbyist step by step through the process of building a double rifle, using the action of a side-by-side shotgun. Chapters include evaluating actions and cartridges; building monoblocks; ribs; bushing firing pins; and proof testing. The author explains what regulation is and isn't, and offers his proven method of regulating double rifles so that both barrels shoot to the same point of impact. Brown details each step of the entire process, to end with a functional, well regulated double rifle. 187 pages, including index and black & white photographs.


Edition: 1st edition
Binding: Hardcover. New in New Dust Jacket.
Book Id: 10382

I believe Butch Searcy started his double rifle business doing conversions. I know he used BSS actions for at least some of them. I had one in hand at Ivory Beads a couple years ago. Very heavy, but suited for the caliber, of which I can't recall specifically.

http://www.searcyent.com/

It would be nice to build up a warchest, and I am doing that to a certain extent. But most of my money goes towwards college, books etc. That is a great point tho. I think it would scratch the itch, for a little while anyways. I will do some more research and see what I can't find. Basically I wanted to know what to keep my eyes open for, should I come across a nice double cheap.

I am thinking that maybe I could find a well priced gun with cut barrels.


"only on guns with a third fastener, preferably a Greener crossbolt."

Can someone explain this to me a little more please. Newbie ignorance...

I know most of these guns are heavy, and thats fine, I'm young and can handle it. Is there a website where I can see the relative pressures of each caliber? Thanks again guys.



Alex

If you are looking for pressures, try this:
http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/index.php

While not the SAAMI max, it will give you some idea.

Here is some one who does conversions for about $650 if you supply the donor gun.
http://www.angelfire.com/sd/rgs1/work.html

Inserts
http://www.mcace.com/shotguninserts.htm

The problem with the above inserts, is that there is no way to adjust the POI.

It would be cheaper to buy a Valmet o/u if all you want is a double rifle. If you are thinking of an African cartridge (375H&H, etc) sxs, then you will need a big war chest.

Pete

A person by the net-name rshow from http://www.shotgunworld.com ( http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=23025 ) builds 45-70 and .30-30 double rifles and cape guns on Baikal-Spartan actions, believe it or not http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopi...&highlight=

The issues you will run into are 1. shotgun firing pins are too big and blunt and not very well sealed to the breech; 2. shotgun actions are not designed to take anything but the tamest calibers (hence popularity of the 45-70); and 3. putting inserts down the bbls is a short cut but it leads to a rifle that feels like it has two lead pipes out there.

If you want to do it within the design envelope of action, then build a paradox or a bore-rifle. A 12 is the standard, a 16 is more interesting, and a 20 is downright sexy. Paradox requires only rifling the (full) chokes, sights and reregulation; bore rifle requires sleeving, sights, and reregulation.

Or I will sell you a FinnClassic 512S (formerly Valmet 412S) with a set of 9.3x74R bbls that you can regulate to any load, with an extra set of screw choke 12 ga bbls, for about what you gunsmith is going to bill you to do the above conversion; and you can scratch your itch next week.

Several people have also used the Model 21 for such a conversion. You won't find a stronger receiver. In fact Winchester had a Model 21 experimental double rifle and made a few. Andy's custom shop has also recently made such a conversion a few years back and it was featured in a DGJ article if I remember correctly. From what I remember they take a 20 gauge and 1894 (?) octagonal barrels and round them off to fit. I believe Russ Ruppel even made one several years back. But you have to remember that the cost of a double rifle might not be that much more than to have one converted. Maybe a used one. (?)

Details of a converted Greener 'Empire' .577 x 2 3/4 NE are accessible through this link.
Apologies to seasoned posters who have waded through this before, but hopefully StormsGSP and others will find something of interest.

Couple more stories here and here, though mainly hunting yarns.

double---Interesting. I am curious: how much for the Finnclassic with the set of 9.3 x 74R barrels? and you said "you can regulate' them to any load? Have they ever been regulated to any load? Do you know what they are regulated to, if they have?

Do you have pictures? I'm interested. If you'd like to send pictures of the gun or provide a bit more info, my email is sam@icm.cc

Thank you.

This is a 12 Bore i built.

This is a 45-70

This is a 20gauge x 4570 cape gun and a 22

This is my 30-30 Ackley beater gun that everyone uses and abuses.

one more

So what is the one in the white.....or did I miss something?

Clear this up for me.....you're building some of them yourself or did you have them built?

i BUILD THEM , THE 1 IN THE WHITE IS A 22 MINATURE

Nicely done Rd Show-

Can you tell us anymore about the guns you make. I would love to hear a brief description of the process.

That 30-30 is about the perfect gun for what I am looking for. That is one of the calibers I was considering.

Do you make the entire gun, Rd? Or do you sleeve other guns?

The rifle bbls are regulated at the factory for Norma 286gr loads, but you can reregulate them by means of an opposing screw adjustment at the muzzles (for horizontal alignment) and a vertical sliding collar under the forend for vertical.

The field grade, with a set of 9.3 double rifle bbls fitted, plus an extra set of 12 ga bbls, runs about $2300. Scope mount, case etc. are extra. Available in DT and ST, satin or gloss finish on the action, satin or gloss on the shotgun bbls (all DR bbls are now brushed finish).

Will the barrels for the Finnclassic fit the older Valmet 412S series?

Pete

jIM, i BUILD THE BBLS. ON CERTAIN ACTIONS. THE 22 MIN. ACTION WAS BUILT BY ME, IT WON'T BE SOLD ITS FOR MY OWN COLLECTION. Rich
(sorry had the caps on )

I know where there's a very reasonably priced Browning BSS to double rifle conversion. I think it's a 45-70.

If you're interested, let me know.

Buying it would probably be a lot cheaper than making one yourself.

OWD

OWD could you email it too me? I think you probably still have my email address?

Thanks

Alex