I am looking for some feedback on the functionality of an under snap action thumbhole lever. I have my eye on a Boss hammergun with this setup and not familiar with it at all. Is it reliable or problem prone or something else? How does it measure up to a Jones underlever or sidelever? There has to be a reason that this design was discontinued years ago or is it simply evolution. I hate to invest any money into a nice gun if I'll be disappointed with the breech opening mechanism...thanks again for your comments.

I have this type of opening system on two different guns. One a Boss hammer gun like you mention and the second on a Scott hammer gun. Both guns were made in 1870's and have been well used. I have shot them only very limited amount as 135+ year old guns do not instill much confidence in their strenght and I have many others to play with. The thumb break as I call it works well and no problems. But if it fails I am sure some 137 year old design can be fixed by a good smith.

There was a Boss hammer gun with this system a while back that had been converted into a crossover shooter. Wicked looking gun that I should have bought just for laughs. It was in very nice shape and had seen little use after conversion. I suspect that a cross over gun like that gets very little use if the owner does not like it. Not like you can lend it to your brother or son. Need for crossover tends to be a one person only handicap.

As to the merits of the design it is a dead end of gun design evolution. Like the side lever it had a short life and went the way of many "odd improvements". Unless you intend to keep the gun long term or can get it for a decent price you need to consider how much you want the gun. Might be a little hard to sell down the road. Then again if you find a odd fellow like me maybe not.

I have used a Purdey second model thumbhole as my grouse gun for a number of years. I happen to like the design and functionality of the system. In my opinion, a thumb hole back action hammergun is about as elegant a combination as you will find in a breechloader. I look apon the Purdey thumbhole action as a plus weather made by Purdey or others under license.

All the best, Mal

http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx...0&GunID=745


Was it this one? I thought it was neat, and low priced for what it was, but, viagraJoe thought it would be ostentatious next to the Mossberg 500s-yes, plural.

The Darnes and the Tobins are big tent 'kinda guns, and 'woulda made room, I'm sure.

Not a hammergun guy myself, and the safe is full at the moment. But, neat. Let us know how it works.
Best,
Ted

Wish I could say the same!
The thumb-hole Purdeys are not common in Australia, most of the Purdeys I have seen in recent years were Pigeon-guns, although sidelock game-guns were abundant before our currency crash a decade or so back.

It wouldn't happen to be an ejector, by slim chance? I would have to say that a Purdey or Boss hammer ejector would be my idea of the Holy Grail!

I have shot one oldish (1863)Purdey thumb-hole and it is undoubtedly slower than top or side-levers, but, to me, faster than a Jones. You have to move one hand down to open the gun. Personally, I grasp the barrels with my left and use my right thumb to push the lever. Still, if you don't need a quick third shot, it's both fun and makes for a racy look. I like it.

It will be a Daw lever cocking gun, as I recall. The thumb lever, side lever, and snap-underlever were all variations of this theme. All work fine, but were supplanted by the top lever. Those used to barrel cocking find the opening/closing ease of a lever cocking gun strange. I like it.

Rocket, I am slightly confused. (Normal for me!) All the thumb lever guns I know are hammerguns and don't cock themselves. The thumb lever just unlocks the gun. I would love to shoot a self-cocking gun with a thumb lever, however. Do you know where it is one is to be found? Pref on the cheap!

lt - I think you may be right and me in error. The Purdey and Woodward snap underlever hammerless guns do use the Daw cocking lever, but, come to think of it, I don't have a hammerless sample of the thumb lever pattern (I remember seeing one, but I don't have information at the moment so I may be wronmg). I suppose it may have been used only for bolting on hammer guns.

Good catch!!

The Purdey first patent thumbhole was the original operationg lever for the Purdey bolt, the second pattern was abit neater but then it got overtaken by the invention of the Scott Spindle, which enabled the Purdey bolt to be operated by a top-lever.

The thumb-hole lever guns are elegant but the market currently dictates that they fetch less money than top-lever or side-lever guns.

I would certainly use one - But I have been using a Jones underlever hammer gun all season on driven pheasants and partridges - I still put a good share of birds in the bag and don't think I lose much shooting because of the slower loading cycle.

I use this c. 1874 ( rebarreled )Charles Lancaster with no problems. I seem to shoot it quite well and carry it for target and hunting more times than not.

1892 snap underlever as used by James Woodward on "The Automatic."

Dig.....Given the high pheasants you shoot, you'd have time to have four dead in the air even if you were muzzle loading

I wish some would buy this so Ted could get his commission check.

Mr. Wolfe-

That Lancaster is very nice.

If you don't mind me asking, who did the restoration work on it?

Thanks

OWD

OWD
Les Paul did a pretty much complete redo (orig wood) with the case colors done by Doug Turnbull.

Rocketman,

Nice Automatic!

I have a Woodward Automatic double rifle made in 1891.



It can be viewed in detail at:

James Woodward and Sons, "The Automatic"

These are rare and fascinating guns. Who else put a roller bearing on the front of the bolt for ease of operation?

Curl

Marrikai, The purdey thumbhole action was abandoned very soon after the apearance of the toplever. a thumbhole ejector gun would be very unusual. I do however, have a Purdey hammer ejector that was made for the Earl of Pourtsmouth in 1904. It is numbered 8 on the toplever so it wouldn't ger mixed up with all the others. It is light and fast, but choked a bit too tight for our ruffed grouse. It would be good for driven, or our Western phesants. It was rebarreled in the 20's by Bate of Birmingham.

Rocketman and Dennis, It is good to see that some great guns still get out into the field. I believe that is the first Lancaster thumblever I have seen. I have never used a Woodward Automatic but I'm sure they are wonderful.

I find the underlever system to be very efficent. At last years Vintage Cup stalking rifle competition I was able to fire 6 aimed shots with a Ruger #1 single shot in 16 seconds. I was only able to do 18 seconds with a toplever ejector double. I like the push underlever so well that I am thinking of having a Searcy underlever double made. I also like the clean top these actions have.

All the best, Mal

Thanks for all the comments and observations. I learned alot. The downside to this is that the gun I was looking at sold. Yes, Ted it was the link to the Boss you provided. Story of my life. Well at least I am a better person from the wisdom provided and know what to look for in the future. Thanks guys!

2X zero is still zero, viagra jOe. I guess I'm not the only one who thought it splendid, and worth the asking price...
Best,
Ted

I guess Teddy bOy' will finally get his check.

Curl, that's a magnificent Woodwardddddd! DDang, I think my ddddd key is drooled up again...

Steve, thank you very much. It strikes me the same way.

Curl

Curl - that is a very nice rifle and a very nice piece of research. I find that research such as yours helps greatly in understanding such guns. Mine shoot clays and go afield as appropriate.

Rocketman, thanks for your comments.

Curl

Looks like the Boss is again available, at a small premium ($7000) at Vintage Doubles.
Doug

I believe you're right unless there are two of them with the same serial numbers. I guess every bodies got to make a living...but a killing ?

I guess Mr.Chaplin didn't realize what he had.

http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx...0&GunID=745

Nice mark up.

http://www.vintagedoubles.com/inventory.php?sort=1&process=fullview&gunID=595

Well the market will settle the real value for that gun. Asking and getting are two different things but you never know. I looked at the gun and came away feeling it was one more tired old gun which had been sleeved and refinshed too make it look like a cherry. Fancy wood raises my interest but not by that much. Still it only takes one buyer and if he is willing to wait a few years he might get the price. Others on the net seem willing to wait years to move inventory so why not one more? It will be nice eye candy to look at for the next few years, like a mid grade Lefever which has been for sale for six years by one seller. Almost a fair price now.

Reading old threads,I came across this old post. Having sold a number of vintage U.S. military rifles I was a bit flush and saw this nice old Boss on Kirby's site. I phoned and inquired about the gun and ended up purchasing it. (it was less than the number quoted in the post). Upon receipt I checked it over and shot it with RST factory loads. I decided to keep it and a little later took it to my gunsmith to have the wood redone as the wood was very dark with oil and grime. Almost a ounce and a half of oil was extracted from the butt and forend. ( we were both surprised at that amount collected in a glass jar.) Fresh oil finish was applied and the stock head was skim bedded with agraglass to insure full contact with the action and a gentle cleaning of the metal brought out the beautiful engraving and the leather covered pad look's like new. The sleeved barrels are nicely done and the overall appearance of the gun is stunning. I shoot it well and enjoy owning a fine gun with new steel barrels suitable for nice shot or bismuth non toxic loads. Many inquires "would you sell it?" or "is it for sale?" A polite no is always my response. I'll be passing this one on to my Nephew. My first thumb lever opener and I have missed a few birds lost in looking at the intricate engraving on the action and top strap. Boss did not make very many of these back action hammer guns using the Purdey 2'nd patent thumb levers and only a very few in 16. Spoke with Kirby a short time later about another hammer gun and he remarked that over 20 calls came in just after I made the purchase. I am very pleased with this gun. I guess one man's treasure is another man's -----.

I am curious how do you tell the difference in the first generation Purdy thumb lever and the second generation ???

I love my sleeved thumb lever Purdey rabbit gun!!! Snaps shut tight.

On the 1'st patent, the mechanism joining the lever and the bolt is external under the action body. The 2'nd patent placed it inside the action body. (one can see the differenced clearly on hammerguns.co.uk. #229 is the 1'st patent and #337 shows the 2'nd patent thumb levers. Did I say I really like the 2'nd patent locking style.

This my Purdey “Thumbhole Snap Action” a number one from a set of four built for Henry Chaplin in the 1860s and what a Victorian Toff he was, though I will forgive him that his life story is so improbable you couldn’t make it up.
This gun was saved from being scraped in the 1960s it was used as part trade for a Spanish gun then relegated to a pile of scrap guns to be sold a wall hangers, well it would not be sensible at that time to spend any money on it. The barrels are original Damascus still in nitro proof most of the screws have slots so worn they look like the Grand Canyon though it still closes up like a bank vault door. But unfortunately with no original finish because it has been worked hard and in continuous use for all but a few years of its life though the rebounding locks have all their original parts. And in my humble opinion being a bar in wood it has that sleek look of a fine muzzle loader, and for a breach loading gun this I feel these Purdy’s have never been bettered. At the end of the day when all said and done “it’s a Purdey” made in the days when that did at least mean something here in Brit land. It is slower to load than a top leaver gun but then it was built in an era when a man who had a “loader” to look after things in the field, so don’t judge this type of gun by modern standards well you would not expect your grandmother to run a hundred yards in ten seconds now would you, and this is your great great grandmother. I don’t mind being seen out with an older woman who works fast enough for me and she still has the Je ne sais quoi to turn heads.

Thanks Damascus for the picture as we all knew the definition of the word 'perfection' but didn't know what it looked like until now.

Thanks