Does anyone know how steel shot compares to lead and similar substitutes in respect of trajectory ie when the shot starts to fall off compared to others, effective range, and energy. I shot some ducks eith steel the other day that were within 40yds and some of the pellets ended up between skin and muscle. The pellets should have penetrated to the vitals. Futhermore I could swear that although I was leading the birds as I would lead targets that I shoot lead at, the shot string was behind. This was in the range of +35 yds.
40 yards is long for steel unless it was very large shot. Steel looses kenetic energy faster than any other type of shot. At close range it penetrates well, due to not deforming, but as it slows down it becomes a very poor penetrator. The lack of down range energy is one of the reasons that most factory steel shells are loaded so fast. They try to get more down range energy by starting the steel out at 1350-1400fps. Problem is that the light steel pellets loose velocity faster than any other material. So while they may start out much faster by 40 yards they have slowed down to the point that they have less than needed penetration ability. A lead shell, with large pellets starting out at 1150fps is more effective at 40 yards than steel which starts out 300+fps faster.
The laws of Physics are hard to overcome and steel does not get it done. Hence Heavyshot and Bismuth shot are better for long range shooting. Lead would be my first choice but why break the law and get another fine when you do not have to?
With lead 4,5 or even 6's might have gotten the job done at 40 yards. Steel 4's are no more effective at that range than 6's from what I have seen. If you were loosing steel 6's you were in even worse shape. They act like 7 1/2's at that range.
Only at extreme ranges does drop of shot enter the picture. I have killed, at long range, with 30 foot of forward and three to four foot elevation. But since lead is outlawed, no more. Even then, it was mostly to anchor a cripple. Those old 10's could really reach out there and save a lost bird when you did every thing right.
SNR
Steel is a pain!
That being said, you should not have a problem getting lethal penetration to 40yds with the right size shot at the right velocity.
Getting enough lethal pellets on the bird is the real rub at 40yds.
What load were you shooting?
Best,
Mark
Some good information here
http://members.cox.net/azwildlife/Shotgun.htmUnfortunately, the availablity of the excellent Kent Tungsten Matrix for next fall is uncertain.
I am beginning to think that the handwriting is on the wall for lead shot...I don't understand how the painting company located just off 35W can get a permit to spew 90 tons of poison a year into the air, in sight of a nice neighborhood and playground, but, I can't shoot a few ozs into a woods...
Best,
Ted
It is indeed Ted, there is a atomic dumpsite not so far from me in a wildlife area(hehehe).
Btw, there has been a plague of deformed babies in this area, and no doubt its from lead shot.
Yeah, steel shot is a pain and bismuth is a ripoff. But if you use steel high velocity 2's out of an improved cylinder or modified choke for ducks you'll kill'em about as well as you could have with lead 5's. Steel shoots tighter patterns than lead or bismuth so use your open choked guns. That's been my experience anyway...Geo
Geo,
Funny, but I haven't killed a duck or goose in more than twenty five seasons...the exact reason being that steel shot was mandated, and I didn't own a gun at the time that was up to the task. I had a straight gripped Darne 20, (sadly, gone, but a few others are in it's place) a Remington model 17 (still have it) and an Italian "Companion" single shot 12 (got that, too) and a good gunsmith (bless him) warned me against using steel in, well, any of them. I was 19, for crying out loud, and didn't want to spend any more money on guns. At about the same juncture, (1980) killing a redhead or a canvasback was about like shooting a bald eagle as far as the warden was concerned. Steel shot moved me further into the uplands, where I have been ever since. Which, as it turned out, is right where I want to be.
Yes I own a pump or three that I wouldn't worry about feeding steel shot to as of today, and I had to carry a Mossberg model 500 12 loaded with steel 4s on my one trip to the federal wildlife area at Sherburn this year (didn't fire a shot). But, I would have rather carried just about any of the other guns that day, and would have rather had lead.
I feel like an old dog, with a brand, spanking new, shock collar on his neck.
Best,
Ted
Ted:
A cheap steel-shot fowler can be made by simply sawing the chokes off an old heavy duck gun.
Years ago I acquired a Greener 'Empire' 12-bore shotgun very cheaply at auction, because it had been fired with an obstructed muzzle and the damaged 2 inches had been removed by hacksaw! I used this gun as a 'loaner' with steel shot to introduce new-comers or casual shooters, and it patterns surprisingly well with US #1 (= UK BB). The geese we shoot are lighter in weight than yours, but are wiry and tough to compensate. Nevertheless, anything centred within about 35 yds is on its way down!
I use home-loaded Bismuth in a Cashmore sidelock as a general rule, but ran out of time this year so I finished the season with steel in the old Greener. I've gotta admit, many of my prejudices against steel shot have been re-assessed, especially for late season shooting when the birds are flighting well within range.
If it's lack of a suitable double-gun that's keeping you out of the swamps, give this a try. You will be amazed at the nice even patterns achievable with the larger steel-shot sizes from straight cylinder-bore!
PS: My Greener likes 'Fiocchi of America' US#1 steel the best, but also patterns well with Italian RC UK#1 steel. It has fired many hundreds of steel cartridges to date, with no visible evidence of scoring in the bore whatsoever.
Never would I saw the barrels off a duck gun. If push came to shove with steel shot, I'd buy a new gun and keep the old ones intact. I've shot steel from an older American gun, but that was before reading the blown barrel reviews of late, altho I'm here today.
...but that was then.
Some of these old duckers have had a hard life - let 'em retire in peace.
Steel is much less dense than lead, bismuth, Kent TM, Hevi-Shot, HD or any other type of non-toxic. You therefore need a bigger shot to carry the same energy. The shot is therefore exposed to higher drag, slows down faster and does not carry the energy needed to assure quick kills on waterfowl.
Yes, I know that many waterfowl hunters say they only shoot waterfowl inside 30 yds and steel is not a problem but unless you use a handcannon and 3&1/2" 12 or 10 gauge loads, don't care about the wounded ducks and geese that are actually hit but not downed and fly away to suffer, it just doesn't work, besides damaging those guns not made to use steel shot.
I couldn't stomach being in a blind with a steel and plastic camo'd semi-monster. BTW, how did all those geese and ducks not to mention turkey's, get killed without camo in the past?
When non-toxic was mandated my doubles got put away and a new Rem 870 Express 12 gauge ($220) was put in its place. Miserable on ducks and geese with steel. Finally went to T for geese and #1 for ducks and no pass shooting. When bismuth was introduced and then Kent TM followed, old doubles were again killing machines! Hevi-Shot even better in a modern double(Rem 332).
Expense be damned, it's a pleasure to go waterfowl hunting again!-Dick
Ted maybe Lowell could loan you one of his sawed off shOtguns.
Today's steel shot kills just fine. Sure, shots beyond 40 yards with small shot are not likely to kill cleanly, but if you are shooting that far you either need to put away your duck call, hide a little better, or go to a larger shot size.
Many of the new non-toxics out there perform much better than steel (and even better than lead), but you pay for it.
IMO, limit your shots to a reasonable range, spend some time on clays, and you'll only need the new non-toxics for the vintage guns.
Todd
Pretty hard for anyone on this board to do, saw off barrels, but if "an old heavy duck gun" picked up cheaply at auction becomes the go-to for an active hunter as Marrakai by shortening the barrels it's not likely to be noticed---and the gun isn't retired. From the looks of the Greener, the barrels appear around 30 inches.
One of our most distinguished members told me on condition of anonymity that he always shoots cylinder/cylinder in field and range and has the trophies to show for their effectiveness. I did not ask if they were cut barrels. I wouldn't cut any of my guns but if I saw something to resurrect for useful work I'd do so.
Guns shouldn't fade away.