Hi, I am interested in suggestions and recommendations for a hunting dog. We've had a wonderful mixed breed dog (Katy) for the last 12 years and while she thought she was a great hunter and loved to go with me she really wasn't much of a bird dog. I don't think she could have found a quail if it was 5 feet from her. But she was a great companion and house dog! Unfortunately she passed away about a month ago from cancer. So, my wife and I are considering getting another dog and this time we are considering getting one that will hunt as well as be a companion.

These are some of the qualities we are looking for:
We are looking for a fairly small dog. We would prefer one under 50 lbs. 30-40 lbs is ideal. Our last dog was 75 lbs and we'd prefer a smaller dog.
A good family pet is very important and is more important then it be a good hunter. In other words a good pet is number 1 priority then followed by hunting ability.
Bird dogs tend to have a lot of energy so we are looking for a breed that can turn off some of that energy when hanging out in the house.
The hunting will be in northern California (at least for now) primarily for quail but possibly for some other bird species and maybe occasional duck hunting.
Another consideration is that there are plenty of burrs where I hunt so a breed that has a coat that isn't too difficult to remove burrs from would be helpful.

Some breeds we are considering are:
Brittney Spaniel (maybe too energetic?)
English Springer Spaniel
Golden Retriever (maybe a little big)
Welsh Springer Spaniel (not very common so might be hard to find one)

So, I know there are lots of members with opinions and real life experience with bird dogs on this BBS and we'd be very interested in hearing some suggestions and comments.

Thanks,
Ron

Out of the four you mentioned the Brittney is the only dog that I'd consider a quail dog.

Have a look at an English Cocker Spaniel (working NOT show)
Brilliant dogs, very loving, can be a lapdog in the house, but dynamic in the field. A literal 'Pocket Rocket'.

Salopian...and also completely mad!! I'd go for a black lab...my son wants me to buy a gun dog this year...and I'm just too worry about a spaniel...
T

Tony, '.....and also completely mad!!'
Not actually true Sir.
None of them are completely mad,
energetic, mischievous,disobedient if not trained properly, but! The complete DOG.
I have had Labradors for 40 years and still have them, known around these parts as the 'Labrador Man' but I also have a cocker who is and has always been the perfect companion and gundog. When I creep up on a flight pond, Boo, the cocker is stealth like and to heel when I am in position and give her the nod, she explodes into action and flushes any thing that is holed up. She does struggle a little with a goose, but her main role is on Partridge & Pheasants.Purdey on the other hand my one year old lab is a complete hooligan, lovable but hard to keep in check (at the moment).
I don't think a Lab would suit the original enquiry as although I love them to bits, they are a biggish dog for around the house.
It's a Cocker for me every time.

English Springer Spaniel (working, not show) and imported from UK.
Strange our UK guys do not know it. I'd recomend them to go to ESS field trials in UK at least just once.
ESS is like tornado in field and restrained indoors and one of the most obedient dog.

I'd go with a small female German Shorthair, probably 45lbs would be an easy size to get. I think all the dogs on your list could be burr nightmares and can be bundles of energy. I think about any dog is ok in the house if you spend a little time with it and it gets to know the rules.

We only had one (Golden Retriever) a while back that just didn't get along with the kids when they were younger, so he was gone after just a bit. My highest powered, biggest running English Pointer would just lay around and nap in the house. She couldn't be bothered by much of anything unless I was dragging the gear out to chase after quail.

The French Britts are smaller and generally less energetic than the American dogs. That'd be another option.

The "spaniel" designation for Brittanys was dropped in the 1980s.
They can be very "busy" as pups, but they eventually calm down. (I hope.) They do need their daily exercise. As HoJo stated, they point while the rest of the list are flushers.

I have had French Brittany Spaniels for eight or ten years. Setters and Pointers before that. My French Brittanys are registered in both the United Kennel Club and in the American Kennel Club.

I currently have four. They put on a little weight in the off season but their fighting weigts are 27, 31, 33 and 35 pounds. Depending on the mood of the Alpha Mammal she lets between one and four live in the house with us.

I mainly hunt Bobwhite with them. Hit about 50 or 60 days a season. I also field trial them in NSTRA. They win sometimes. They were almost all natural pointers, backers, and retrievers. I have called them "Out of the box hunters" meaning the same way you go and get a new Browning Citori and take it out of the box and shoot it. Little more to it than that but those instincts are all there.

They do have two speeds. A hunting speed and a sleepy laid back house speed. "Demons in the field and angels in the house" is the propaganda the breeders put out. We have had a total of seven French Brittanys.

They stay in site in the field. The Setters and English Pointers I had before would only willingly look for dead or wounded birds for about 45 seconds. The French Brittanys are avid dead and wounded hunters. Not as good as a Lab but much better than any other pointing dogs I have had.

I guess you can tell I like mine.

Best,

Mike

Mike,
What are the sexes and ages of the four?
Gil

I like the idea of a small female shorthair. My male is 55lbs, he's a loving and comical dog with my 4 year old daughter, a real family dog. In the field he is a driven machine and adapted well to a variety of bird species (grouse, woodcock, pheasant, chukar, quail). He was very easy to train, basically trained himself and is a natural retriever too.

Provided you get one from a good breeder I don't think you can go wrong witha GSP. 2nd choice would be the Brittany.

Get a Brittany. I have two and you couldn't ask for a better pet/bird dog. They hunt well, retrieve well (they love to dove hunt too), and are the best house dogs in the world. Plus, the are the perfect size. You won't be disappointed with a Britt, I promise you that.

Adam

I'd have to weigh in for the smallish female GSP that's been suggested. Real bird dogs and generally docile enough to live in the home. Nothing wrong with the Brittanies, but they do gather burrs in the field. Spaniels are cute and are driven retrievers, but they're flushing dogs and you better be in good shape to expect to keep up and get any shots...Geo

Go with a Brittney and you'll never regret it. Great companion and the BEST birddog I've ever been around. I hunt mine on pheasant, grouse, woodcock and quail. Sits next to me in the duck blind and swims and retrieves like a champ too. Easily trained and an extremely loyal hunting partner. Mine stays in the house and is friend to not only my 5 kids but every other kid in the neiborhood too.

Not bragging (O.K. Bragging) but I hunt 2x per year in the U.P of Michigan for grouse. Right beside guys with 5 thousand dollar dogs. I don't spend 5K on my truck let alone a hunting dog and my dog finds twice as many birds (no B.S. I keep a bird log) as any other dog in camp.

Just my 2 cents. Best regards,

Pups, and thorazine, available

As you are going to both hunt upland and waterfowl, then the breed that put versitle in the dictionary, a breed that has been around for 400-500 years and was one of the four foundation breeds for what is now known as the versitle breeds - would be just the ticket. I would recommend that you take a look at the Small Munsterlander Pointer, or KLM as it is known across the pond.

Many years ago when I started looking for my first sporting dog, I had the exact same requirements that you listed. #1 was a dog that could be a house pet as well – I didn't want a dog that lived in a kennel. After narrowing the list down to a couple breeds it was my wife that decided, she saw an SMP and decided on the spot that was going to be our dog.

The SMP is a small/med sized sporting dog. My little guy excells at anything that involves his nose. He points like a setter, is steady as an EP, retrieves like a BL, marks like a CBR, and tracks like a blue tic. When hunting farms with ponds, I can hunt phesants and jump shoot ducks at the same time. Yet he can turn his prey drive off and be lap dog. Matter of fact he's more affectionate pet than my wifes little furbal dog.

Just this year the Small Munsterlander Club of North America became a chapter of the German KLM-D. This means that all of the new puppies born in the U.S. will have an FCI pedigree and follow the testing under the JGHV, same as the DD and DK. It means that there will only be "one version" of the Small Munsterlander in this country, the same Small Munsterlander as found in everyother country per the KLM - I (International) --- no AKC / show dogs to contaminate the hunting stock. Check out http://www.smallmunsterlander.org/ and the litter my little guy sired last year (pups pointing at 9-13 weeks) http://www.trupointkennel.com/tru-point-b-litter.html

Some pics of my little guy.......

Here he is at deer camp, keeping everthing secure with grandpa whilst I'm out in the bush


After the hunt


My absolute fav pic - pointing a spring woodcock


Training for the NAVHDA duck search - chasing the duck


And one more spring doodle - just can't get enough of a pointing dog at work!!!




Gary

Ron,
I think you have a good list. I'd add Lab to the mix, because you said three things in addition to quail: Good companion above all else, DUCK, and BURRS. Obviously, there are better quail dogs, but toss in those requirements and you gotta at least look at Labs. I'm not talking about big fat 100lb Labs, but little 50lb athletic females bred for trials.

I hunt quail, chukar, and pheasant over my Lab. I'm not a waterfowler. She's a very energetic hunter. Her drive is amazing. Not the optimum quailer. But the companionship of a Lab is hard to match. My dog is welcome in many friend's homes and has even stayed with 4 or 5 friends when we've traveled. She's always gotten an invitation back.

There's a guy named Ted Robinson in Yuba City that finds Labs for hunters. Pin-Mark Retrievers. 530-635-3333 or 530-674-2891. Chat with him a bit. You can mention my name, Chuck Heald as well as my dog Jasmine. Our pics are on his website.

Neither dogs are pointing dogs...to hunt wild quail you need a pointing dog.

No, you don't. You don't need a mule drawn wagon either.

Llewellyn setters. I've had four.

I think a small GSP would fit your requirements. Low-maintenance coat, livable around the home, capable "light duty" waterfowlers, great for quail, easy to train, and fine-lookin', too.

Molly, 27 lbs, black & white, female, 5
Red, red and white, male, 35lbs, 3-1/2
Belle, roane (red and white), female, 33lbs, 3-1/2
Ginger, red and white, female 31lbs, 13 months

In reference to burrs I cut and comb all the burrs out of four Brittanys in less than 5 minutes after a hunt. Small inconvenience.

Best,

Mike

Buy a dog from a breeder of hunters. One that has proven desire to hunt and to please. Dogs that are partly trained and love the sound of the gun is the only way I'll go now. Ijust lost my best buddy of almost 15 years- a huge hunting machine of a GSP- last spring, so my opinion on breed would be a little biased.

This is the third generation of springers in my house, Lucy and her first bird. The springers are a bit wound up as youngsters, but settle down nicely by age 2 and make excellent pets. She is 29 lbs and will fill out a little bit. The hair can be an issue for some folks. Great bird dogs with big personalities.

Some pictues of my dogs:
This is Red during a trial:







Red won 3rd in the National Shoot-to-Retrieve Association's West Texas Regional Elimination Trial. That is me holding Red, not Brad Pitt




Red and Belle shaking off after a dip in the tank. Molly on the right.

Hi All,

Thanks very much for all the great information! Lots of good advice. I really appreciate it.

Our former dog Katy, had the wonderful trait of bouncing off the walls if she saw the leash in your hand but once you got back to the house it was like a switch had been turned off and she became this mellow house dog. Interesting to hear that some of the hunting breeds will do this also as I have not been around many hunting dogs and didn't know how they behave at home.

I had the opportunity to hunt for chukkers with an older gentleman who had a small female Brittney. She did a good job hunting but also seemed to be a good companion dog. I also hunted with a friend who has a female GSP. Ridiculous experience but I blame most of this on the friend and lack of training not the dog. Dog was totally out of control for the first 2 hrs we hunted. Just running around in huge circles and figure eights completely out of range with my friend frantically yelling at his dog and pressing the shock collar. Fairly comical! But this was not unexpected as I have watched his two girls grow up and they were much the same as children.

I should add that the duck hunting/duck retrieving ability would be a nice plus but probably not as important as the quail hunting ability.

I've been a member here for a long time and I always enjoy the discussions on dogs. But this is the first time I have ever been in a position to actually consider getting one so again thanks for the help.

Any further thoughts or comments would be appreciated. My wife and I will sit down this evening and go through the messages.

Thanks,
Ron

One more to give you a better idea of the size of the dogs. That is the back of my Ford Expedition:



I have hundreds more pictures and would be happy to post more on the slightest pretext so let me know.

Best,


Mike

Thanks for all the pix and opinions you guys--a fun and informative thread for us spectators, too!

I hunted behind a smallish female Brittany in South Dakota the last several years. Not my dog but the owner of the lands dog. She is simply a bird machine. A great little hunter in the field. But in the truck or back at the lodge just the best low maintenance pet you could imagine. Only drawback that I have seen in about 4 years of hunting with the dog is that the tall grass, cat tails and so forth do wear her down, in part because of her small stature.

Amarillo Mike, I would love to see a hundred more pictures. Thanks for offering.

Mike,
Pretty 4 pack of pooches. I understand where you are coming from. My Britt female, 7 mos., is up to 35 lbs. and I have been letting her tow my fat a$$ around on a bike 3 miles a day for the last 2 months when morning temps are in the 70s. It helps keep her spring from being too tightly wound the rest of the day.
Best,
Gil

amarillo mike-thanks for sharing the pics. Great looking dogs.
Also love the custom job on the back of your truck.

Ron,
I'm a little familiar with the terrain in Northern California, so I have some idea of your needs.
One important thing to consider in the type of terrain and that you mention, tall grass and burrs, is stamina. I've hunted in the heavy stuff with both Brittanies (a friend's) and small Shorthairs (mine). The Shorthair was still going strong long after the Brittanies were just slogging along. Could have easily been an individual dog difference, but I'd tend to believe that the longer legged and leaner body of the Shorthair helped give it that additional stamina. Also, as touched on earlier, burrs love Brittanies while shorthairs are basically immune. At worst you might have one or two to easily pick off a Shorthair.
Whichever direction you go, make sure that the breeder is focused on Hunting dogs. Good luck.

Thanks Gil and that sounds like a dog that go all day. I don't have to unwind mine. They have a high field speed and an "Off" button for the house.



Why thank you Daryl!





















[img]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l274/AmarilloMike/Carlsbad%20DavidH%20January%202008/DSCF1352.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l274/AmarilloMike/Deming%20Blues/2007_0214Deming0009.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l274/A...sFeb2009019.jpg[/img]

Best,

Mike

Went over the picture limit:








Best,

Mike

Thanks Ghostdog. I got the drawer from truck vault and it is about to go into it's third Expedition. The bars are from Pet's Mart and are velcroed in.

Best,

Mike

Son Trent takes one a bit too close with GWP Willy and GSP Flint doing the honors.



Terrain and dogs not as pretty as Mike's pix, but least I have picture proof we sometimes hit something...Geo

Some pretty dogs and country Mike. Who's the ol' codger?

Clumber Spaniel. Check it out.

That is my shooting student Joe Wood. I am really impressed with Joe as he was already elderly when he started hunting with me. I will never forget the first bird we took. Beau was on point and I kicked the bush and the Bobwhite flushed. I shot it and Joe looked at me with eyes as big as saurcers and said "They can be shot in the air?"

Get an English Pointer.

ESS and Cockers are great dogs, but I wouldn't want to run one on quail.



OWD

I'll tell my Springers they are not quail dogs, and sharpies, and that they can't hunt the high prairie, and, and, and......but they still are not convinced, neither are those darned dead birds they bring to hand. The thing is, a well trained dog can adapt to nearly anything, despite what you may read on the net.

I'll buy that.

The most efficient quail dog isn't the most efficient duck dog. But, any one of them may be your ideal dog, given the right breeding, drive, temperment and training. What really matters is how often and how big they make you smile.

Just to show I am not prejudiced here is a Setter










I can keep on going and going and going. I never realized how many pictures I have. But I will quit now. Thanks for putting up with me.

Best,

Mike

An ESS/Cocker will never cast out 2-300 yards over birdy terrain, find a covey, and then point it until you arrive.

That's not how they hunt, plain and simple.

Instead, an ESS/Cocker stays with you (or you with it) and the two of you hunt together. Where the dogs goes, you follow.

That can be a lot of hard walking in open country - for you and the dog.

OWD

I agree. A dog bred with a reliable hunting bloodline and a pro trained dog made me a believer. I'm doing exactly this (again) on my next dog, this fall.

For all kinds of hunting; how you gonna beat a Lab. I had a 50 lb female that was hands down, the best I ever had. If the bird would hold, she would point it. In 13 years of hunting, I bet I could count on one hand the downed birds she didn't find and retreive, land or water.

Out where you live, I'd look for a light colored yellow and verify how big the parents were. The smaller, the better.

You can ADOPT a great bird dog for just the cost of saving the dog and gas money. A friend of mine and I saved an English Setter recently for less than $1000. Most of the $1000 was vet bills and donation to the dog rescue ladies. This particular English Setter's Daddy was dying, or dead by then, and the dog rescue ladies had taken in the dog. While the dog's Daddy was sick and dying everybody forgot about his dog and let the dog almost starve to death in the back yard. Yes, this bird dog was almost dead of starvation when the rescue ladies got to him. They put him up on FACEBOOK under the IBDR, Ill Bird Dog Rescue, with warnings of imminent death if someone did not come and get him. I drove 700 miles one way to meet this English Setter bird dog. He was just about starved to death like the ladies said. He was so sick he could hardly eat, his stomach was shrunk up. I took him out back and you could immediately tell that he was a great dog. I gave the ladies a reward for saving the dog and took the dog 350 miles to my son's house and his neighbor a lady vet. The Lady Vet said we had a 50% chance of saving the dog, the dog was now starving and sick with a cough ! We got lucky, BUCK got well ! We gave BUCK to a hunting and shooting friend of ours who runs a shooting club. A few weeks ago a pro dog trainer was shooting and saw BUCK and said "that dog looks trained and acts trained". He got his whistle and blew a command and BUCK did what he was trained to do. BUCK was a college grad !!! He had a Masters Degree in finding birds and whistle commands. Go on FACEBOOK and look up dog rescue and you will see many choices.

Another good place to find dogs is:

Above and Beyond
English Setter Rescue

http://www.esrescue.org/

The CODE for a good bird dog at ABOVE AND BEYOND is they tell you that the dog IS NOT cat friendly OR that the dog is BIRDY. Some of the dog rescue ladies are NOT HUNTERS so be nice, look at the dog yourself and do not ask questions.

Good Shooting To You All, Jent

I don't know how you could go wrong with a good setter. Mine is 40 lbs, is the birdiest dog I've ever seen, and is an incredible pet. Not to mention breathtakingly stylish. I had a brit before, and he was ok, but I'm hooked on setters for life now. Here's a couple recent pics of my 2 yr old Thunderhill's Mohawk Briar, after Master Mowhawk Mike fame:

I am fond of English Pointers and English Setters. I have both breeds but prefer pointers because they have loads of stamina. But I love setters too. I have seen good dogs in all breeds and sometimes wish I had a good Brittany Spaniel. I prefer pointing dogs over flushing......I guess because that's what I was brought up with...Dad had them. If I were a beginner I would not want an English Pointer. They can be hard headed. After saying all this I think the best advice is to make sure you pick a dog from HUNTING STOCK with proven breeding. A worthless dog eats just as much dog food as the national champion.

Probably not the dog you want/need [img:left][/img] But she's the dog for me.
[img:left][/img]

YMMV.

Bird Dog....

Here is a picture of my water dog, plus she chases pheasants and rolls in dead animals. All the traits you would want, I highly recommend an English Setter.
Chris

Chris,

I'll cast another vote for the 30-35 pound English Setters.

My dog last December --



she turned 9 the 6th of August.

Her daughter --



now pushing 7.

Three generations of Gene Mahoney Setters in my livingroom 15 March 2009 --

We're not makin this easy on him, are we?

Lots of dogs to be proud of.

Or you could get a few breeds like I did.

A classy English Pointer

An old snow crusted German Wirehaired Pointer

Then there is the old yellow dog.

And then the latest addition. Another one of those wire hairs.

Get either a britt or a small setter. Here are a couple shots of my older britt (and all of these points are on wild quail)...





















Adam

Hi:

You may wish to rescue a bird dog. There are many to choose from! Once you have selected the breed, get in touch with a rescue organization that rescues that breed. You can find a great dog this way and both of you will be richer for the experience.

Look in local papers etc. for dogs from homes that "did not work out" for various reasons. Go to uplandjournal.com and ask these questions. There is a very large pool of great dog owners on that site who can guide you. I would recommend that all hunters who hunt with dog(s) join this site! There is a poster known as Spinster who is constantly posting dogs for adoption. She may be able to find you what yoy want near to where you live. Try a local vet or shelter to see what you may find.

If you are very lucky, you may find a dog that is a mature dog tht is ready to hunt! It has "papers" house trained and trained to hunt. Keep looking until you find what you are looking for as it will be a great deal for both of you!

I will go out on a limb and say,"Rescue, do not buy."

Best of luck,

Franchi

Yup. But that's the point of the exercise.

That, and showing off our dogs....

Hi Jent:

I love your post as it reflects my experience with a dog that I adopted.

My PP rescue was shipped from Salt Lake City to Baltimore. He was free. Only cost me $600.00 to get him to Baltimore! lol

I do not think that I could have done much better!

If you wish to hear the rest of the story, call me at 717-526-3334.

Remember, never spoil your bird dog!

Franchi

I have pretty much tried em all...I settled on Brittanies..Amarillo Mikes dogs are among the best, if you stay upwind of them....

Very hard decision. You didn't mention about a long hair or short haired dog. If in the house I would think you would want a short-haired dog like a Pointer, German Short Hair, Vizula, Griffon, or any of the wire haired dogs, plus now the pointing retrievers, the best of both worlds.

If you don't mind your wife or you vacuuming the house every day, then a loong hair.

I have had Brittanies, and they are a very good dog, gentle, easy to train and like to retrieve, but I to prefer setters. The one I have now is a 75 lb. male, Max. Very gentle, smart and a very birdy dog, however, it takes me a long time to clean him after some hunts, he has very long feathers on his chest, belly and legs, plus a very full tail.
I built a quail return pen when he was about 4 months old, here is a picture of him then.

Here is a picture of him in the yard in January of this year, 4 1/2 years old.

Chuck I agree with you and must also say that you are an excellent judge of bird dogs!

Very nice setter, JDW.

Personally I will never ever take dual dog again. It seems to me dual dogs can't take all heavy duty stuff of real huntings. I lost my dual red setter because of it last year.
Also I will never take working American dog of broken strings such as EP, ES, IS and Gordon. These strings belongs to UK and Ireland and dogs have to be looked like original.
Brittany's that I saw here sounds logical. We have plenty of these dogs here and they are all good working dogs (besides show strings).
What about short and long haired dogs for home - its huge missunderstanding short haired dogs do not leave their hair indooors. Its much easy to clean home from long hairs of long haired dogs, than from short hairs. These short hairs are everywhere and its not possible to get them whith vacuum cleaner or such from fabric covers at home and in the car.

Well, if we're posting dog pictures. Here's the picking up team. Two of my Chesapeakes on the right:



'Well, I found it but I'm not fetching it!'

5 month old Britt Abby locked down on dove. Dove flew to limb and still on point. Hard to train her to point on two legs, but it helped cross-train her to do the Macarena and break dance.

Great looking dogs Lagopus. Is that a deer furrowed down in the grass in the second picture? Or a fawn? Or a buck and a fawn?

Best,

Mike

Mike:

Fallow deer have spots, it looks like a Fallow buck to me....?.........

Best,

young red deer got these spots

A Gordon Setter, bred to field lines, would be a good choice. At least based on my experience. My male weighs 45lbs., is great with kids, pretty settled while indoors., hunts upland birds well, and loves the water.

Geno,
What's your dog doing on your fabric covers?

Chuck, same as yours does - coming over to the dark side!

The long hair from my Gordon is pretty easy to clean up - it's really fine and felts well. But, because it's so fine, it floats everywhere and I mean everywhere. And there's a lot of it. Makes me glad I have wood floors.

But it beats trying to get short hair up.

At least the shorthaired dogs don't have undercoats to shed. I had an old Aussie that bi-annually shed enough fur that one could make three dogs out of the shed hair. The undercoat would ball-up on the floor and drift from room to room like tumbleweeds.

Face it, dogs are nasty and ought to live outside in kennels. If you have a dog in your house, you may not smell or notice it, but everyone else who comes in your home will notice it smells like a dog pen and wonder about the hairball dust bunnies under all the furniture.

All the sporting breeds I know of shed and if you don't believe it clean the coils under your refrigerator! You may think you're cleaning up all the shed hair, but you better have your wife check the back of that blue blazer you are wearing before your 8:30 meeting at the Bank.

House dogs are nicely socialized though, and still make great working dogs. Why not keep'em in the pen and just bring'em in sometimes on cold nights for a while to photograph on the rug in front of the fireplace? I keep trying to convince my wife of all that, but she still likes to keep the furball inside all the time and bring in the Wirehair and Lab every night for 'family time'...Geo

The hair bunnies on your floor are just visual evidence you haven't vacummed recently enough. They perform a useful service by rounding up all the dust into convenient piles. And people without dogs have bunnies too. Where do you think that hair shed from your back goes?

I have had several GSPs, Vizsla, several other non sporting breeds and now a French Brittany. The GSPs are nice dogs, high energy and the hair is a pain. Vizsla is a sweet heart, but really takes a soft hand to train, and rather spooky about gunfire. The French Brittany is by far the easiest to train of all the dogs I have encountered, really good around the house, travels all over the country with us, brushed frequently hair is not a major issue. The only really long hair on them is the feathers on legs and ears which an be cut back for hunting season. Only negative I have with her is they have the most penetrating bark of any dog I have heard, and it just rattles my bars when she sounds off. Also none of the commercial boots I have found are small enough for her and in most of the west that is a problem with cactus and foxspurs. A man with one or two of them out front has a regular bird vacuum cleaner going. I have never lost a downed bird with my French Brittany along. She just doesn't quit them and that is saying something on Gambels and Scaled quail.

Geo, pointing dogs usally do not stink at all. If they make pee or more even indoors, its owner's fault. Kenneled pointing dogs are not so smart as indoor pointing dogs. I prefer smart dogs.

Geo,
When I got my filthy beast, I told my wife it was an outdoor pet, never in the house. My wife listens to me too. She listens and then does what she wants. She laughed and said that she wanted the dog inside whenever she said so. That's the way it is Geo. I wouldn't have it any other way.

As I type this from work, my dog is in the house all alone. She is coming on 6 yrs old now and stays out of mischief for the most part these days. (knocking on wood right now)

When the new dog comes, they'll both go outside when we're away, until the new dog can instill trust. (might be never).

Jerry, I'll pass along the houskeeping tip to my wife. LOL

Geno, I already said YOU might not smell the dog (pointing or otherwise). I assure you though, everyone else can smell'em. You're right about the house dogs being "smarter". I think that's because they are more socialized in relation to us.

Chuck, you BETTER be knocking on wood if you left the beast in the house alone...Geo

Our new yellow Lab puppy already thinks her name is Dammit Stella!...Geo

These discussions are similar to "Maryann or Ginger?"

In all honesty, I have not read all of the posts. I glanced through most of them. You are looking for a smaller breed, a good family pet, and outstanding hunting ability. You mention a focus on Quail, with some duck hunting. I think you also mentioned coat maintenance.

A French Brittany may fill the bill. I also agree with another poster who mentioned the Small Munsterlander. If you want or prefer a pointing breed, I would highly recommend you find one with a strong testing background through NAVHDA, the North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association.

You also mention the Golden Retriever and Welsh Springer Spaniel. Both beautiful breeds. However, you will really need to dig deep and search hard for a true, hunting breeder. Sadly, these dogs have been taken over somewhat by the show people, whose chief focus is conformation, rather than hunting. Beware the breeder who simply slaps an AKC Junior Hunter title on their dogs and claim that they hunt. In the Goldens, look for strong testing in either NAHRA or HRC. When I was looking for a pup, I looked into the Welsh SS. I could not find one hunting kennel. In fact, some breeders did not want to sell me one when I mentioned using the pup for hunting.

You may want to consider an American Water Spaniel or perhaps a Boykin. They are small, have lots of hunting ability, and are well behaved in the home. I ended up getting an AWS and could not be more pleased. He weighs in at 40 pounds. And, I have shot more wild quail over him than any other breed. Just my opinion. Good luck and try not to let emotion overide logic. Hope this helped.

Kind regards,

When I first got my dog, the pedigree said "My-Emma's-Jasmine". After a few weeks, I changed it to Dammit-Jas. In her adulthood, I've re-registered her as "Good-girl-Jas"...Hey! I was optimistic!

At sixty years old, I found my first German Wirehair Pointer. Now, at sixty five, I will not have another breed. However, they don't meet everyone's requirements. My wife's two generations of Springers were most delightful and the son was still doing water retrieves at fourteen. However, our present Wirehair is just off the charts for personality and hunting ability.

Bill:

I retired my littermate to your GWP. I in turn gave her to my son where she occassionally points and retrieves pheasants and provides great companionship to his two little girls.

I have had Brittany's all my life. I am not likely to change. My current dog Zeke is a great one. Buy a Britt. MDE

BUY GOLD NOW....... Great Photos ALL. Expect more this fall. Geo. Love the photo of Trent getting on it quick. The reflexes of youth. Wade, your dog sure has it tough. My first registered field Golden was bought in 1988, a Top Brass pup named Cody. Brother and I have been raising and hunting with them since then. Randy
Glen and his Parker [dog and gun], great aunt to my Oakley. Parker is one terrific upland and waterfowl dog.


My Brachen, with brace of pheasants, Parker VH, Fox SW

Brother Glen and I with his Chitna and Caribou, ND

Glens Caribou and Hawken, Reeb 12ga.

My Timber after an exhausting coon hunt

MY 11 Month old, Oakley, as in Annie Oakley, first retrieve last fall on a preserve hunt

Need I say more!

I have a Vizsla female that weighs 50 lbs. Will hunt any bird but will not retrive in water. That is just her, most Vizsla like water. A great family dog. Loves people and very quiet. She does need exercise every day. For us that is just a nice walk every morning. I live in Weed, CA so would be happy to show her to you.

Hi All, Just wanted to again thank everyone for the comments and suggestions. My wife and I had a great time looking at all the photos and reading the posts. She was very impressed with the response. A dog is a long term commitment so we're going to take our time and have fun looking for the right dog. The information on here has been very helpful.
Ron

Ron,
I asked here as you have, about 6-7 yrs ago. The response was similar. One thing you have to admit, there are lots of extremely satisfied and proud owners of vastly disparate breeds. That didn't help me narrow it down. I eventually started asking around my local range with acquaintances who hunt in similar areas for the birds I hunt.

Geno, Amarillomike, that is a full grown Sika stag still with a bit of its summer coat. A heart shot sike stag can go a long way hence the dog which is needed to track it in the thick forestry. That one finally went down in a flooded drain after going a good 120 yards heart shot. Chesapeakes seem to be natural trackers and love that sort of work. Lagopus.....

I have owned and bred Springer Spaniels and Brittanys and now own a 55 pound German short-hair pointer. I will never own anything but a GSP, even though you have to establish dominance of them in order to get them to hunt for you. They are pure hunting machines! My dog Jake is now 8 and he was not a good house dog until 5. He had too much energy. I live on a farm so he is loose all day long and has room to burn off the energy. The best ones are "sharp", meaning they will kill smaller animals such as cats just for fun. Mine has killed groundhogs and foxes and gives chase after coyotes but fortunately hasn't caught up with one yet! He sleeps in the basement at night in the winter as he is too cold natured to sleep in an insulated kennel in east Tennessee. He sometimes hangs out in the basement in the heat of the day because he doesn't like hot very much either. Or is it that he is spoiled by his owner?

Ron and Mrs. Ron: I know I have taken up more than my share of electrons on this thread but three additional points:

First; My French Brittanys are hunting dogs and I field trial them in NSTRA during the off-season. NSTRA competitions take place on about 35 acres. American Field trials are held on thousands of acres and those dogs need every acre. My dogs would not be competitive in American Field.

Second; My Brittanys are multi purpose dogs. That is they are house pests and hunting dogs and trial dogs. I use them as retrievers during dove season, pointing dogs during quail and pheasant season, and NSTRA trial dogs during the off season. When we come home from these adventures they lay about the house on leather furniture and in refrigerated air. They are good at hanging out. They don't have tails beating you and raking everything off the coffee table. You can get dogs that are better at any one of these uses but it would be very difficult to find ones that were so effective at all of them.

Third; I suggest you read back through each post and the disregard the ones that didn't recommend French Brittanys as they are just wrong.

Best,

Mike

When I was looking, I did look into the Braque Francais breed as well. They are "French Pointers" Beautiful short haired dog similar to the English Pointer, but with a traditionally docked tail. There's not many breeders in the US, but I did contact some of them. One was in eastern SD another in CA near me. I went up to the latter's place and took some pics last spring. The dogs were really easy going and great to be around. Females seem to be around 35 lbs, males over 50 lbs

This is their male


The little ofspring

There's a trainer you might give a call to. Bob Worrell 661-476-0847. He's the NAVHDA (North American Versatile hunting Dog Association) SoCal chapter president and also one of the handler/guides for the the Tejon Ranch and Hi-Desert Hunt Club.

I recently met him after having spoken with him a few times earlier this year. Nice guy, honest and knowledgeable. He may be able to help you either in chosing a breed or finding or training your dog.

This is why GSPs and the Continentals can be bitey, too:

"The best ones are "sharp""

Get a dog from a proven breed that has produced countless generations of proven hunters.

A lot of the harder-to-find breeds are hard to find for a reason.

And it's not because they've consistently produced awesome dogs.

BTW: a dog-trainer/lover friend of mine talks a lot about consistency.

The proven breeds consistently produce good dogs. You can get a good bird dog out of any "sporting" breed.

Every pup is a roll of the dice, and your odds of getting a good bird dog increase tremendously when you focus on breeds that have produced large breeding stocks of proven hunters. (I would say field-trial proven hunters.)

That's why labs, springers, setters, & pointers are good choices.

OWD

Just want to point out the Brittanys are also proven hunters in field trials.

The NSTRA website page of champions; Three Brittanys, a GSP, a Setter, and an EP.
http://www.nstra.org/champion.htm

Best,

Mike

Edit: After I posted this I noticed one of the Brittanys had won two championship trials but is pictured twice.

What's NSTRA?

...just kidding.


OWD

Here is a GSP (backing my Molly)

I gotta admit, both GSPs and Brittanys were at the top of my list before I decided on a superior dog.

Chuck I can't wait till Kansas. I have been staying up late at night thinking up one liners.

I just can't wait until you turn those superior first-season English Pointers loose in a field full of running Kansas pheasant. Oh the lines I have!

Best,

Mike

I can guarantee it won't look anything like this!

Good luck

Or this:

Won't much resemble this I think:

I still say God made pointers for buhds, bobwhite quail, that is.






Forgive the new looking chaps, I'z just breakin' those in last year.

SRH

Forget the chaps - you don't see a lot of Perazzi hats on quail hunts!

The heck with the chaps and the hat. The dogs are the deal!

I'm just loving all these Dog and Hunting pictures. Hoping/planning to get in Grouse (Maine). Pheasant (South Dakota), and Quail (Georgia) this year, but will have to do it with someone else's dogs this year. My next Shorthair is due in the Spring.
That kind of versatility is what makes dogs like Shorthairs and Brittanies shine in my book. Setters can be great to, but oh my goodness the hair, mud and burrs.

I wanted and had nothing but English Pointers for bird hunting for many years. We hunted them in braces from a jeep and nothing but Pointers made the grade for that. I still believe that no dog breed is better for bobwhite quail than the pointer. Probly, they can be broke as house pets too.

A few years ago, at 60 I was out of the bird dog owning business except for a Lab. Then I decided to break one more bird dog and chose an old man's foot hunting breed, a German Wirehair. Willy has been a joy to work with and for the hunting I do, she's just the ticket for me.

Nevertheless, the thread is about reccomendations for a household pet/pointing dog. Altogether I'll stick with my 1st suggestion of a small female Shorthair...Geo

Chuck might ought'a plan on getting him a jeep....because when that pointer see's a pheasant he'll need the jeep to catch him.

Yeah, or I was thinking one of those ultralight airplanes or a Piper Cub.

What he's fixing to do is ruin a possibly good quail dog.

Nah, I think I'm gettin a whole dog with a tail.

Naw, they learn the difference. But trash talkin' to Chuck while they go to school is sure going to be fun!

Best,


Mike

If we're just gonna hunt cornfields, I'll just bring the Lab. That way I can help track your dogs.

No! Bring the Pointers! Please! I have all this material worked up and it will got to waste if you dont!

Maybe Last Dollar will put Chuck on one of his fast horses so he can keep up with his dog.