Has anyone ever seen one of these before...?
It is marked 1893 Chicago World's Fair, not sure if this would have been a display gun or a gun that was sold at the fair. As i understand it the fair was for countries and companies to showcase there wares.
From the top it almost resembles some sort of delicate ladies gun or something along those lines.
What do you call that type of grip....?
Tigertrout,Your Greener is certainley not typical of their normal product range.It could well be a gun made for the Chicago Exhibition.[Copies of the Greener Chicago, exhibition gun catalogue can be found on the internet]
The stock is what is described by R.Churchill in his book,"How to Shoot", as a,"quarter pistol grip."[ ie;not Greener,s Rational stock a picture of which can be seen on page 423 of W.W.Greeners book "The Gun].The style of the action,in particular the fences, is similar to that used by Ward and C.Osborne on their target guns and by J,D,Dougal on an unpatented design used on live pigeon guns.
Appears to be finished as a mid grade gun 0f the period.
Definitely a gun that justifies research through Graham Greener.
A beautiful gun!
They don't make them like that anymore.
I think your assessment is probably somewhere near the truth. Either a display gun, or sold at the fair. I have one ten years older that was sold as one of a pair at the Paris Gun show in around 1883.
It will be a Greener 'Rational' stock at a guess. Some design that Greener played around with. You will find reference to it in most of Greener's books. I've heard the fences refered to as Dougall fences and I have something very similar in style on an old Tolley boxlock. Most unusual on a Greener. As Roy says, I'm sure Grahame Greener would be most interested. Lagopus.....
In Greener's 9th Edition (only Greener book I have) he seems to describe the "Rationale" stock as pertaining more to the comb line than the grip. The comb was arched & designed to serve much the same purpose as a Monte Carlo.
The Germans also made some guns having this arched comb, I forget their name for it, but it more or less interprets to SwineBack.
Yes that's a different look for a Greener eh?
Interesting , unusual & pretty sweet!!
Lagopus...I thought the rational stock had more of a kinda humped shape along the comb/Heel line..like on the St George gun...thit one seems pretty straight.
I never saw a 1/4 grip before...kinda like it.
I remember Boothroyd mentioning Ward & perhaps Ryland and a Target gun with similar fences,but I fancy they were flatter on the top/back area of the fence.
I'd get the story from Graham for sure!
Nice one, Tigertrout
cheers
franc
...it belongs to a friend of mine and it is his intention to contact Greener and see what they have to say. We just wanted to start here as we know there are so many knowledgeable people on this site.
keep the comments coming.
Maybe I missed something. Where is it marked Chicago World's Fair ?
I would guess it's on the Rib???
Franc
Not unusual to see that really small round knob/semi-PG on French guns. Not very common on Brits. I'm guessing that that's a Facile Princeps action??
Daryl
if I remember correctly he said it was on the bottom of the barrels, stamped 1893 chicago worlds fair.
I don't believe it's a Greener Rational stock. Straight comb, straight belly ... the Rational stock had a hump back (like a blended in Monte Carlo) and a slight roach belly to bring the butt plate back up into the shoulder pocket; I don't see any of that.
The modified Prince Of Wales grip might have been to allow for a ladies' smaller hand, but surely the length of pull and overall weight would also be reduced. If you look in "The Gun and its Development" Greener shows a stock/ grip of exactly that shape as the "American type" so I think it may have been his standard offering at one time for the US market, or at least what he thought the market demanded. The illustration of the Rational has a pistol grip very like a standard POW.
Eug
Found some info.........they are dougal fences, engine turned rib and half pistol hand.
for more info on this one of a kind Greener go to this website and click to enlarge the pics.
http://www.oldguns.ca/oldguns.ca/Firearms_for_sale/Pages/1893_world_fair_Greener.html#20
next question would be .....whats it worth unrestored and restored......?
thanks Sean
As a gun 2 to 3 grand restored or not restored....to a Greener Collector who knows ?
It's worth less "restored". Collectors want original condition. The more you mess with it, the less your gun will be worth.
Mechanical issues should be addressed, but the finish should be left alone.
Personally, I think it's worth $3000-$4000 if the bbls are good and rest of the gun is sound.
Greeners are great guns, but it's hard to get a long dollar for them.
OWD
BTW: I think it's some kind of early G-gun.
This Greener is made on a similar model action:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=257727463
While this gun is certainly unusual for a Greener, I would bet that it is NOT a typical Greener exhibition gun. Unless, of course, it was made to "exhibit" the fence styling and Rational Stock. I've have seen a good number of Greener's best exhibition guns, and this one is not nearly as ornate. But it is a fine gun nonetheless.
Note: this is a Greener Rational stock. Notice the pronounced hump and curve to the comb:
OWD
It definitely has a French kind of flavor to it...all the shapes surely remind me of some of the French guns I've seen.
What's to say Greener didn't build that specimen to appeal to the French market
BTW, I wouldn't mess with it at all....that's a pretty rare piece and Greener collectors like their guns original
CJ
BTW: instead of G gun, I should have used the real name for that style action "The Self Acting Ejector Hammerless"
There's a good pic of it here:
http://www.oldguns.ca/oldguns.ca/Firearms_for_sale/Pages/1893_world_fair_Greener.html#22And here's how this Greener looks:
http://www.oldguns.ca/oldguns.ca/Firearms_for_sale/Pages/1893_world_fair_Greener.html#6Pretty interesting...
OWD
Oh...here in Canada...I should give them a call
obviously not a rational stock......if you read the pamphlet I have posted in the pics you will see what it is called and what I have said they called it.....a half pistol hand.
thanks Sean
TT-
Be realistic. How many people are going to read a bunch of lousy, low quality scans filled with mouse text?
I'm a nut about this stuff and even I won't do it.
I doubt most guys ever looked at the pics.
OWD
OWD ...........unfortunately, you are correct. I have done the best i can to provide as much info as possible , there is incredible info there and it will be missed. not my loss. but those who are truly interested will look, those who are not interested will not , no big deal.
its all about interest, learning and appreciating for me...........nothing else.
i'm providing an opportunity for others to view a different and unique firearm and offer opinion.
thanks for your input.
OWD
I don't know about your computer, but on mine in the upper right-hand corner of the screen is a small gear symbol, when you put your mouse pointer on it it says (Tools (Alt+X) click on it and among other things it opens up a zoom function. It's still not great, like you said it's a poor quality scan, but it's better enlarged 200%.
Steve