I'd like to buy an honest gun, not a collector, just something to shoot and be proud of. In 12 ga. if possible, 16 ga. isn't auto eliminated.
I've got a budget of $3K or so. It doesn't have to be new, just in good shape and a good gun, Imp/IC or thereabouts. Any suggestions?
There are NO honest guns, they always stretch the truth on now good they are and how well they pattern
Good luck on your search
Mike
American built or anywhere?
You might want to consider commissioning Dig Hadoke to buy you one at either the Holt's or Bonham's auctions coming up in December. $3K will buy you quite a nice boxlock ejector. Google "Bonhams auction" and "Holts auction." Post back if you need tuition on site navigation.
I've got a Charles Osborne boxlock you can have for $1500. It's really nice, thick barrels, rebarreled by Venables of Oxford. Can take photos. It'll have to come from the UK but I can get it exported for you for around $450-500. So well below your budget.
Cheers
T
Tony, you have anything you want to send to Aus? I dont need more guns, but I cant resist asking.......
I'm selling a couple, the boxlock above and an H J Hussey if someone offers me the right cash (circa £4500). Also a Thomas Wild hammer gun from 1880's (£1000).
T
There is a really nice Arrieta Orvis Uplander in the For Sale section.....in that price range.......sure is a good looking gun.......it's a 20 though, but with your choking.......
Best,
There are a number of Webley & Scott Model 700 12 bores available for just under $3k - they would seem to be the epitome of an "honest double"
there is a W&S 16 ga for sale at Orvis; a bit of bluing wear but some killer wood.
Another W&S option, though the condition might warrant some dicussion on the price:
W&S
Thanks to all. I want to look at the gun I buy to see how it fits.
Call Mark at MBAB or Stevie Bertram. they might have what you need.both get nice gun's at good prices.and both check barrel thickness,on face,etc. and in good working order .MC
12 bore Model 21 Winchester is a pretty darn nice gun and in this depressed economy can be bought right. They are built very strong and no problem shooting real heavy loads in them. Also, I saw a guy win over $100,000.00 a few years ago shooting live birds with one. He absolutely loved his. They are a little heavy in 12b but really great guns overall IMHO. Plus, they are made in the USA and you could be proud to take a gun like that anywhere.
sounds like a nice parker vh or fox a grade would fit the bill. go to gunsamerica.com to see a few for sale.
You need to go to big gun shows or a side by side event where you can look at lots of guns and talk to lots of people. You just missed the Fall Southern Side by Side where you can see more guns than you will ever need to see. Common side by sides in great condition in your price range are very reasonable today, compared to what they were selling for a few years ago.
I think you need to settle on a few things about the gun before you get too serious about tossing $3k down.
1) Vintage or modern? How "vintage"? (modern ammo capable? or special ammo?)
2) American, English, Spanish, Italian, German, Japanese, etc???
3) Action type?
1. Modern (Post 1910 or so)
2. American, English, Italian
3. Doesn't matter.
In other words, I'm open to a pretty nice, "honest" gun, not a looker but a shooter. I'm leaning toward a Parker or a L.C. Smith, just because they're numerous and not horribly expensive.
Gene,
While I like LC Smiths, they do have a chronic problem of splitting the stocks under the locks and revealing it at the rear of the lock. I'd lean Parker, Fox, Ithaca NID in the American guns. If it's for upland, you may want to look at some 16g Fox guns. They can be light guns. I don't think you give up anything with a 16 ga.
A Richards or a Greener in a non-ejector will be easiest to find
I agree with Chuck.
If you are going to shoot the gun a lot and want a vintage one. Any of those mentioned would fit the bill nicely (Parker, Fox Ithaca Flues or NID). And with a $3k budget. You can buy something really nice, or maybe keep a bit for yourself afterwards. The biggest question is if you want something of a higher grade. $1,500 - 2k should buy you any very nice lower grade Parker such as a V, G or D grade, Sterlingworth, A or B grade Fox. And at your budget, bells and whistles such as single triggers and ejectors would not be out of the question.
Ejectors yes. Single triggers no. A NID would be great. Or a Fox, but not in the higher grades, out of my budget.
I learn towards the Ithacas- like the LC Smiths, very many more made than the fine AH Fox guns- so the law of supply and demand works in your favor- I also agree with the other posters before me here- Smiths are prone to wood splitting in the locks and tangs, possibly more so in the post 1913 era- but not 100% on that- Between the two Ithaca series - the Flues 1905-1924 and then the NID- 1924-1948 (aprox) in the same configuration- gauge. stock, barrel length- the Flues will usually weigh a bit less- and if you use low pressure loads (under 1200 fps) a Flues will hold up just fine-
I have a lead on a Flues 12 field 28" M&F with double triggers, ejectors and original buttplate and capped pg stock-
I prefer my pre-1913 Elsies in 12- but I shoot light loads in them- It all depends on your wants and budget- I don't know enough about British or European doubles to comment here-
The most important thing is knowing what your dimensions are and what fits you. Don't stay from it or else it will not be the gun for you.
If you have something now that already fits you that you shoot well, try to copy what that gun has in whatever you buy. Doesn't matter if it is just some Mossburg 500 or a plain old single shot. Last thing you want to do is spend a bunch on something that you can't hit anything with, or have to put more into it for stock modifications and such.
Words of Wisdom, Mr. D-- John Barsness in his book on shotguns and their usages for bird and waterfowling said about the same thing- buy the gun in the gauge you prefer that fits you-and has good mechanics- Buying a high grade gun with fine wood and engraving but with too short a stock, too much down pitch and or drop at both heel and comb- you'll spend a King's ransom getting it restocked to fit you- and you'' NOT have the gun in hand all the time it is with the gunsmith- and the more you shoot and handle a good shotgun that fits you properly- inclusing off season clays and pest birds awing-the better field shot you will have the potential to become, with that gun--
also, while you are thinkin about buyin, you should also be thinkin about sellin...and in an economy even worse than what we are currently experiencing...
I don't follow you-- if a man says he is looking for an honest double under $3000 (if I read his post correctly) that tells me he has up to that figure available in cash money-doesn't mean he plans to maybe spend all of it-- So where do you get the idea he should also consider sellin' in this rather crappy sellers market. I don't buy guns to re-sell (unless their are parts-out guns, and even there I am very choosy) I buy them to shoot--that's what they were made for, and by God and the good Saint Harry- I intend to to that with them as long as I can- I do have lines out on a few Ithaca 12's with DT-- I think the Flues and the NID Ithacas are real "sleepers" as compared with the prices being asked for Parkers, LC Smiths and AH Fox guns- and I won't even mention the Limey doubles- they are so far outta my reach--anyway--lotsa good field 12 side-by-sides with DT out there for under a grand- just have to be patient-
My opinion: The best deal on an honest gun are the pre-war German guns. Here are a couple and there hundreds more out there:
This is a Charles Daly made by Sauer:
http://www.pugsguns.com/findItem.action?id=2399This is a Heym. Has a horn trigger guard though:
http://www.pugsguns.com/findItem.action?id=2389Best,
Mike
Mike's right, especially that Heym for only $1,600.00 for a 6 1/2 lbs. 12 gauge. Sweet!!!
I'll second that, from just looking and using my 1914 Sauer.
And this looks promising:
Cabelas, Adamy Brothers
Wow, I really like that Heym!
And 12 gauge, in my opinion (and many others') is really the best gauge after all is said and done. (OK, now I've done it, I can feel the heat starting already from those flame throwers getting ignited)
Back to the issue: I'd think seriously about that Heym.
Don't rule out a nice Belgian Gun.
You could get a nice 14e Francotte BL
for your price,they are good guns, n pretty too.
It sure is fun looking though, ain't it?
Good luck
Franc
I'm liking the Sauer. The chokes seem about right.
This site has a load of Merkel, Simson,Saure etc for either side of 1000
chem out thats meant to be Check them out
Franc
hit the 575arms link that pops up after you hit my link
franc
Franc I couldn't get the Link above to work for me but I did get the one you posted in the new thread.
I really like the Simpson on the site above. Like new!
http://757arms.weebly.com/Simson SxS 12 ga. Seller stock #I274 $1299
Simson SxS 12 ga. 2 3/4" chambers. Action locks tight. Blue on barrel and triggerguard near 98%. Case colors on the action around 95% remaining. Barrels 27.5". Bores look good. Missing middle bead. Choked full and full (but you can have it reamed out to whatever you want for about $25/barrel from a decent gunsmith). Right-handed cheek piece. Wood in great shape. Pistol grip style stock. Scalloped action, cocking indicators, nitro proofed, side clips, double triggers, extractors, sling swivels, greener crossbolt, and rib extension. LOP is 14.5". Weight is 7.0 lbs. Seller stock #I274. CLick here for more photosAs the seller says the chokes can be opened to exactly what you want.