This is a program on the Science Channel. Today, they had a brief segment on how Purdey shotguns were made. If was only about 12 minutes or so, but it was worth watching.

It also showed the proof house proving the gun, or proving the barrels to be more precise.

Lots of hours in a Purdey gun. I can see why they're so expensive.

It is very capital-intensive to set up a manufacturing plant with the most modern CNC, ion-discharge, ultra-precise computer controlled machining capability. But these tools can work to micron dimensions and, if you don't count the amortization costs of the machinery, produce remarkable guns that may be the equivalent of the traditional "bests"

The next time I'm in Britain I'm going to look at the Longthorne-Hesketh O/U.

http://www.longthorneguns.com/

This gun is made by the most modern machinery available - the barrels are machined out of a single forging that begins at over 22 kg. The gun is made in Lancashire and I really don't want to travel up there so we're trying to set something up in or close to London.

Apparently the maker is a large manufacturer of precision parts and the machinery was already owned so he began making guns.

I don't want to start a fight with the traditionilists (I am one of them, by the way) but in principle there is no reason why a fine gun can't be mostly machine-made. I love Spanish SxSs which still have a lot of hand work in them, much like the Purdy and H&H method but both the latter makers are using more CNC and outsourcing altho they don't like to talk about it.

Has anyone on this forum actually seen or handled/shot a Longthorne?

Yes, I have handled a couple at gun shows but not shot them. I think the manufacturing technology in principle employed by any manufacturer (and every British maker is using CAD/CAM CNC etc) is great and it allows to make some superbly engineered guns but it can be taken too far. I just felt the Hesketh could be so much more and that costs are cut dramatically further down the line in production in terms of the final fit and finish. Just my opinion though.

Thanks for that info, Fletchedpair - How did the guns feel when you mounted them? Do they have the "it" factor?

Their minimally-engraved model would cost about USD15,000. which would be a very fair price if the gun is as good as the reviews suggest.

I ownder if the fit and finish is any better on the more expensive model?

I'm a fan of incorporating modern methods/equipment to improve a product. But, I just don't understand the rationale for machining the barrels from a single solid piece. I don't see an end product benefit. It's certainly not a cost savings. Can anyone elaborate on why this "monolith" construction was pursued?

I'm trying to get more specific info on this gun and cannot yet answer for certain but I suspect it is indeed less expensive than joining and regulating two individual barrels.

They must have solved the regulation problem but their literature (scanty) only states that the barrels were machined for a calculated POI.

"The Field" had an article on an Italian maker (can't remember for certain - maybe Piotti?) that also was producing an entirely machine-made top-end gun (about USD150,000) but they didn't mention that the barrels were monolithic.

If the Hesketh shoots well and has a sweet feel to it then USD15,000 isn't bad. I would love to handle one. They have one in Lancashire that you can shoot on Sundays.

Mike Yardley who is (in my opinion) a pretty good gun critic had nice things to say about the Hesketh.

I also suspect that every metal piece on the Hesketh is interchangeable with no hand fitting required. It's an extremely sophisticated manufacturer - take a look at their other website that can be accessed from the gun site.

Gnomon,
I think The Field article that you are referring to is about a Boxall & Edmiston gun.
These are superb guns manufactured using CadCam & CNC but then hand finished and assembled by some of Britain's finest artisans. Ex-Purdey, Ex- Holland & Holland employees now self employed, and dedicated to producing 'Best'.
A number have all ready been made and snapped up by the mysterious 'collectors' perhaps never to see the light of day for a good many years. But there are an increasing number of them beginning to appear in the field. They appear to be very functional & reliable. So much so that I hear talk that they are considering offering a lifetime guarantee. You will only have to pay for repairs to guns that have been damaged or worn out with fair wear and tear.
A very brave venture but testimony to the build quality.

salopian - thanks for input. I think the gun actually is a Fabbri but Yaerdley didn't review it. It was a non-review article that discussed the Fabbri enterprise and I cannot find it now.

Yardley's review of the Hesketh is at

http://www.thefield.co.uk/gunreviews/528960/Longthorne_Hesketh_OverandUnder_Sidelock.html

The Fabbri article pointed out that you can't just copy parts of a H&H using CNC and snap them together - one has to design the gun for this type of manufacture. And that is hugely expensive.

A few years ago, I measured handling on the Wilks O/U with monolithic barrels. It was a 6# 14.5 oz 20 bore with 26" barrels and 14 3/4" LOP. It balanced at 4 1/2" forward of the trigger, had unmounted swing effort of 1.36, mounted swing effort of 6.8 and a half weight radius of 9.55". This profile is virtually indistinguishable from a 26" bbl 16 bore W-W M-21 in the data base.

I don't know if the M-21 16 bore has "it," but I think it is generally considered to not be any slouch. The learning there is that monolithic barrels can be made to handle like assembled barrels. Not that all will be, but they can be.

My guess is that who ever figures out the econoimical machining of monolithic barrels and gets tooled up will probably wind up supplying most of the industry.

Good morning All

I came across your discussion by chance, thank you for considering us discussion worthy!!

I just thought it would be helpful to answer some of your queries.

We do indeed manufacture our guns completely in-house in Lancashire England from the best quality materials, we use cnc technology (as do most manufacturers these days) but can assure you they are all hand finished to a very high level.

Our barrels are manufactured from one piece of high specification steel to precision tolerances. The design of them ensures that they are very strong but also very light which results in a gun which is very easy to point and well balanced with negligable recoil, which our reviews verify and of course they aren't going to fall apart as there is no solder holding them together. In fact there is a picture on our website of a range rover parked on the barrels.

http://www.longthorneguns.com/np03.shtml

Nearly everyone who has shot our demo guns comments that it feels like a 20 bore because of the weight and lack of recoil.

The guns we have previously been displayed at shows are our original working prototypes, all our production guns are made to order so final fit and finish are to an exacting quality, these would rarely be displayed as they go to the customer on completion.

One of our working prototypes is our demo gun which has shot between 30,000-40,000 rounds, many of which have been 50g-4’s and it is still going strong.

We can manufacture these for the price because we have invested heavily over the years (and continue to do so) in the best equipment available and our background is precision production manufacturing combined with an expert knowledge of metalurgy.

We do have several very good reviews on the website, but if you would prefer hard copies please just contact us and it would be our pleasure to send them to you.

In the meantime, if I can be of further assistance let me know

Very best wishes and safe shooting

Longthorne-

Thanks for the post and the info. It sounds like you've created a very interesting gun. I'm sure you'll do well with it.

Please explain some more about how your designs results in negligible recoil. This is very interesting, especially if your gun is a 12g with the weight of a 20g.

I appreciate your time.

OWD

Longthorne-

Hello and welcome! I just received your literature and am very impressed. Indeed, your manufactory seems to be ideal to produce fine machine-made guns since you already have the very expensive machinery and the talent to design and execute.

I'm a bit puzzled by the recoil thing - I don't know why a 20-bore should have a lower recoil if you're shooting the same load at the same velocity as in a 12?

Also, it's not entirely clear how you choke the barrels. It seems you supply removable chokes but also have fixed-chokes? Some of your literature implies that there is something unique about the way the barrels pattern - am I misreading? You intentionally have short forcing cones - why?

Can you put some pictures of the insides of the locks on your website?

I have never owned an O/U but your gun may change that!

Well I don't see what the big deal is about these barrels. There are two sets of them under that Range Rover and both of 'em are bent. How good is that? About the only up side I can think of is their fitness for shooting around corners in some of these Philadelphia neighborhoods.
nial

Hello 'Obsessed' and 'Gnomon' thank you very much for your interest, our gun is very rigid and with a very low profile action, with this feature and because of the solid construction of the barrels and the action, which is also manufactured from solid, it also has less flex and thus less felt recoil, the 'stock bolt' also ensures rigidity and extra strength throughout the stock.

Long forcing cones are traditionally used to aid in reduction of felt recoil, we don’t have that problem. With short forcing cones there is less chance that 'gas' passes the fibre wad therefore resulting in better shot velocity, everyone has their own opinion on this but in essence we don’t need long forcing cones.

We recommend fixed choke in the barrels as our guns are proofed for 3" superior steel (fleur de lys proofed) as standard and we don’t 'bulge' the end of our barrels, Our barrels are choked to client specifications although we only go to 1/2 choke for steel proof.

The gun is fairly unique the way it shoots as the barrel holes are straight and round to within 0.02mm so this results in less deformation of the pattern, ordinarily when barrels are soldered together this can result in some inaccuracy in the straightness of the barrel holes.

Nial, thank you for your comment, what we forgot to mention is that when the RangeRover was removed from the barrels they were totally straight and are in current use on the demo gun, thank you for pointing this out and I’ll put a note of this on the website. Although we do not recommend that this is attempted with our client’s guns as it voids the warranty. It was really a test to discover how much deflection would result in the barrels not returning to their original shape.

Gnomon, glad you received the information and will put some pics of lock work on website.

I hope this assists, any more questions just fire away (excuse pun) best wishes

A really grand accomplishment!

Longthorne: I would love to see and 'handle' one of your guns in person. It just appears fabulous at a very reasonable price. Will you be making S x S's too?

Thank you Chuck H and Buzz, we are planning to do a side x side model but it's just in the design stages at the moment, I do hope you get the chance to see and handle one soon. All the best

Let me stop you there dear Sir for a moment:
You are planning to build A side by side ,correct?
Have you ever thought of a side by side like no other, one that exhibits performance that cannot be surpassed, or even duplicated, one that has no equal, one that cannot be beaten… THE side by side… …
Just think of it as the Bugatti Veyron of shotguns….
Would you like more information?

Now I am intrigued!
Tell me more please

Hello Beretta Ariston

Knowledge and continuous improvement are the way forward!!

All the best

I could not even begin to think of what a Bugatti Veyron of SxS could even be.
I think that a W.C.Scott Premier would be very hard to beat, perhaps monolithic barrels could be the icing on the cake?