I recently purchased a 16 bore S x S shotgun. I have always been a 20 or 12 bore man, but I really like this gun. It weighs in right at 6 lbs. What do you guys think the pros and cons are of the 16 gauge ?

The only negative with the 16 gauge is the price and sometimes the avaliability of ammo. It is the perfect gauge for the upland hunting enthusiast. In my opinion, a 16 is equal to a 12 gauge, but typically weighs 1 to 2 lbs less.
Steve

I just came back from shooting skeet with my 16 gauge Parker Trojan. The gun is a lot of fun, but you'll have to reload if you shoot a lot, as Rockdoc said the ammunition can be pricey, if you can find any at all.

I have had a hard time locating empty hulls to reload until just about two weeks ago. I gave the Cheddite pre-primed hulls (from Precision reloading)a try, they load great and I'm on my fourth reload of the first 100 hulls, they still look great and I think I'll get another four reloads from them at least.
Pete

I hunt almost exclusively with 16ga guns. I have not found that 16ga ammo is "hard to come by". You may not find it in a rural store but WalMart, Dick's, Sportsman's, Cabela's, etc all carry 16ga ammo. You may not find as many ammo options as 12ga or 20ga but you will find good shells to suit your game.
I reload most of my ammo since I enjoy doing it along with saving some money. I also like loading paper hulls for my vintage guns. I don't think 16ga is "better" than any other but I do enjoy the 16ga guns I have.

What is your new acquisition?

Well, duckxdog, you may find it where you are "on the fruited plains" but where I am it is "hard to come by". Sometimes you may find that Walmart or Dicks has it but not very often and a lot of the time it is loaded in 6,5,or 4 size shot.

Pete

I get my 16-ga shells for my Merkel 1620 from:

www.bandpusa.com/

Completely satisfied.

Go over to www.16ga.com and ask the question. You'll find plenty of like-minded 16 gauge folks over there. 16's are usually less expensive than 20s, lighter than 12s, but more expensive, and close the weight of a 20. Some are built on 20 gauge frames. I enoy shooting 3/4 to 7/8 oz loads, usually handloaded by me. Gil

My go to guns are 16's and 28's. I have always thought the 16 was the classic gauge and perfect for grouse. There is just something right about the loads. I do agree about ammo - finding exactly what you want when you need it is almost impossible but there are a number of companies producing ammo virtually any combination is available. I just order by the flat and I always throw an extra couple of boxes in when I head to the grouse woods. Below is a 16 ga Parker DH, circa 1892, shooting 2-1/2" RST 7-1/2's loaded in paper hulls. (Gotta love the sound of paper hulls rattling around in the back of the vest).

Gnomon...they have some interesting stuff!

Thanks for the link.

Buzz, you will find that if you don't reload, the factory 1 oz stuff you buy at WalMart etc will probably have more recoil than you like. Reloading, as suggested above, is the way to go if you're going to shoot targets regularly with a 16. The problem there is that components are more expensive and harder to come by, and reloading down to 7/8 oz--which is a piece of cake with a 12 and readily-available components--often requires tinkering with some sort of filler, etc.

That being said, they are indeed great upland guns.

L. Brown, Loading 16 gauge hulls with 7/8s of an ounce of shot is no longer a problem. You can load 7/8 ounce or even 3/4 of an ounce of shot with the DR 16 wad very easily, with no fillers.
Pete

Most are hard pressed to find more than a basic factory load at more than one local retailer and a constant supply of them is not likely. You can find them just before hunting season opens or if the retailer will special stock them. The shot size selection is very poor in most areas. If you had to just shoot what is on the shelf the 16 would die again to all but the most die hard shooters. Too easy to find 12 or 20 shells to do the same job.

The internet has saved the 16 in many ways. Now if you are on the internet the 16 ga. world is another matter. You can find wads to load everything from 3/4 - 1 1/8 ounces. Hulls to reload can be found. If you go to the 16Ga. web site they can share information that is literally a lifetime of learning. Loads, advice, you name and they will share it. One person even designed and created his own wad to make a light load easier. Many are shot at clay targets and it makes a very pleasant light load. A Mec 600 Jr. and you are in business. Just like being 16 years old again except you have to pay the bill now. Almost like the good old days.

I love the 16 and use it to the exclusion of most other gauges for both birds and clays. The only birds I took this year with other than 16 was still done using my 16 SxS with .410 inserts (it was to help with the training of a gun shy dog).

Ammo is an issue and as much as I love my 16's, I believe you should go into it with your eyes open that it will not be simple unless you are lucky enough to have a local ammo source that stocks the shells at a fair price. Fair price is still more than 12 and 20 and less options.

You really have to reload 16 to get the quality and variety you will want to go after birds.

PS Non-Toxic with 16 while it can be done is prohibative; the good news is it is only about two boxes a year.

Selection of Ammo can be spotty for the 16. I keep my eyes open for vintage ammo and buy any I can find as long as the seller does not want to take me to the cleaners.

I especially liked the Mark V Super X 5's I got last weekend.

A six pound sixteen gauge is the very definition of a Bobwhite gun. Just fact.

Best,

Mike

Double post, deleted.

I have to check my 12s and 20s once in a while for cobwebs in the bores

I really enjoy the old 16 gauge stuff

I don't think shells will be a big problem. I shoot low pressure loads in my vintage 12's. RST and B and P. I wish RST made a 2 3/4 or 70mm 16b shell, but they don't....only 2 1/2 inch. I bought a flat of their 7/8 oz 16b and they are nice but expensive. I'm guessing 1 oz loads will pattern better in a 16 than they do in a 20 bore.

I'm a BIG 16 fan...I buy a couple of flats of RSTs for game birds, and mooch shells off of Amarillo Mike for Clays...That works for me...

I am a B&P fan by and large, I just wish they would offer some of their 12 ga. loads (SubSound, Comp Ones) for the subgauges. Their only 16 ga. load appears a bit hot for my tastes:

F2 Classic 16ga. 2 5/8 inch 1 1/16oz 1280 FPS (200 rds per case)

I have yet to shoot it, though - Gnomon, how have you found the recoil on those loads?

RST loads some really nice 16 gauge loads.

This is my CH Parker 16 Gauge made in 1898:

If you can find the Win Super-X loads at the big box store in 16's, that's the ticket. Only comes in 6 or 8, 1oz, but is very soft shooting.

We usually go to Yuma every year for the dove opener and the first stop we make is WalMart to see if they have any 16's on the shelf. They stock some light 16's, but they are always sold out after opening day.

If your local Cabala's store doesn't have them in stock they will order them in for you. In February they were running a special on Estate (Federal) light (one ounce) loads and with Cabela's $20.00 off purchases over $150.00 I paid in the neighborhood of $5.00 a box when I bought three flats. As I remember the 1 ounce Federals are loaded to 1165 fps so recoil is not nearly what the Remington Game Load and B&P run and best of all the hulls load up just great for everything from 7/8th ounce to 1 1/8th ounce.

My favorite load for quail and targets is the Federal or Cheddite (Winchester Super X) hull trimmed to 2 9/16th inches, 17.9 grains of Unique with a Gualandi 1621 wad and 7/8th ounce of shot with or without a Spred R insert and finished with a roll crimp. For Prairie or Mountain Grouse and early season Pheasants I up the power charge to 19.5 grains and use 1 ounce of shot with the Gualandi 1618 (old Active G28) wad.

My favorite gauge for hunting. I grew up with one and I think it is the perfect cartridge . But, we are surrounded by 12's and 20's. I still have my boyhood 16 ga gun and a couple of others to keep it company.

My 16 is my go to upland gun. I used to shoot the B&P load but they are a bit hot. I started shooting the 1 ounce RST loads for everything and I'll never go back, great performers and a whole lot less recoil. Order online and you'll have them in no time.

I'm a big fan of the 16-bore. All the payload of a 12-bore game gun; and light but strong on a scaled frame.

In the UK we have a good selection of excellent ammunition. I use 26g Eley Grand Prix No.6 and have always been pleased with it.

Back before EBay banned all empty shotgun shell sales you could pickup some types of 16 hulls very reasonable. Not the compression formed AA which I have seen go for 25-30 cents each. But Remington Game loads, Federal purple hulls and even the odd lot of paper hulls. I had a seller in NY who sold Remington Game loads all the time. My best buy was mixed lot of 4,000 hulls which had about two hundred AA's in the mix. Shame EBay stopped the sales.

One thing I learned about 16's is to buy what ever hulls or wads you come across because some has a good load for them. The 16 ga. site has about a hundred low pressure loads so if you come across a hull or wad buy it. You find a use for it later.

Tut,

Beautiful looking CH. Gotta love those old Parkers.

Cheers,

JDG

I find ammo on the internet for the 16 is a lot easier then at the gunshop. When I buy I buy a ton of it.
My 16 gauge Nitro Special with my first South Dakota pheasant. Its a sweet gun at a little over 6 lbs.

I'm with Dig on this - I use a Darlow of Norwich 16 bore s*s sidelock for a number of types of shooting and really enjoy using it. We have a reasonable selection of ammunition here in the UK, although for traditional 2.5 chambers, (understandably) this is generally restricted to 1oz loads and below. See attached for interest.

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/ammo/226013/16bore_cartridge_review.html

Craig.

The folks at 16ga.com will tell you just about any 2 3/4 inch load for a 16 can be reworked by cutting off the fold crimp and roll crimping into a 2 1/2 inch load with no appreciable difference in pressure. A couple months back, I bought a flat of Estates on sale at Cabelas for like $50 or so and have been working my way through them, one box at a time, cutting them down and roll crimping them. And I'll reload them.

Works fine, though it's a bit tedious. Having done both, for this purpose I'll suggest the Federal/Estates as the better choice over the black Remington GL b/c the Federal/Estate plastic is more pliable and works more easily. But for target shooting it's a lot cheaper than $13 or so retail for a box of the very excellent RSTs at Bean's. For reloading, there's a mountain of loads compiled over at 16ga.com and in the low-pressure group there, too.

I think it's the ideal upland gauge, though I do tend to slightly prefer a 12 when hunting pheasants.

To my knowledge, ALL the "promotional" 1 oz 16ga loads from Rem/Fed/Win are 1165 fps. Given that the velocity and shot charge are the same, I never found much of a difference in recoil. I agree that the Wins seem the lightest-recoiling of the bunch, but not by a whole lot. But 7/8 is definitely the way you want to go in a light 16. RST's are absolutely great, but pricey if you shoot a lot. And economics is one reason to reload 7/8 oz 16's . . . but the DR wads are also on the pricey side. And not as readily available as 12ga or 20ga components.

The reason I went away from the 16, after shooting a lot of them for a lot of years, is that I got tired of tinkering around with reloads. It's all so much easier with 12's and 20's (and even 28's). And there are plenty of light 12's on the market, and plenty of even lighter 20's.

Be careful with the Federal Estates, they have a paper based inner wad that has been known to loosen and could lodge in your barrel.
This is especially true if you find them after they have been lying on the ground after a dew or rain.

I use the Cheddite red hulls that come primed already that were available from Grafs. They were 2 9/16" and I roll crimp them.
The black Remingtons are good if you can find them.

Larry, where did you find the "even lighter 20's"? They are about the hardest shell to find in a light load. I would reload them to 2 1/2" and roll crimp them, but I have only found a few loads light enough to use. These were 2 3/4" 6 fold, but will work in a 2 1/2" hull roll crimped.

Like what many others have said; the 16ga is my primary hunting gauge. And, I have no problem finding the shells I want on the interent or buying up a dozen flats when the promo loads go on sale at Dick's near the beginning of the season.

Except for goose hunting, I don't know why the other gauges exist. :-)

--shinbone

Dover- I'm not very recoil sensitive so am probably not the guy for this opinion but I haven't found any problem with them. I do wish also that they had a better selection.

I've not shot the RSTs - maybe I'll try them but the BPs work well.

I agree. I have three 16's and a light 12, and the 12 I shoot as a 16, with light 1 oz. loads.

But..but...REAL MEN shoot 12 gauges !

A few years ago I did an informal comparison on doves, using an Elsie Ideal 16 FWE with 30" barrels and tight chokes. Shot Fed blue box field loads, Rem promo field loads, and Win Super-X silver box field loads, all from WalMart and K-Mart, all 1oz. All three killed doves nicely, but the Rems kicked the most and the Wins were softest. Very noticeable difference to me.

Can't add much other than personal experience. My handle is a clue to my preference, and the only 12 I own is limited to turkey and waterfowl. Otherwise, the three sxs 16's get the nod. I have a large build and very large hands, but a 12 just feels like a cinder block married to a 2x4. Likewise a 20 or 28 is too small and whippy, the recoil in the former sharp and wicked with many loads. The 16, to me, is just right. YMMV.

A short time ago, someone posted that if he needed to shoot 7/8 or 3/4, he just picked up a 20 or 28. I am not a natural or a great shot, so anything I can do to keep following the fundamentals is a plus. Thus it makes sense for me to change the load, and not the gun- perhaps not unlike subgauge tubes for serious skeet shooters.

You do have to be more proactive with your ammo than a 12 or 20, but it's not the big deal that skeptics claim. I reload on a PW 375c, and mostly load 65's since two outa the three are 2.5 " chambers. I'm loading them mostly with 3/4 oz, and if I do my part, am consistently surprised how far out they will break targets. This one load covers me for targets, quail, and dove: for roosters and grouse I have a flat of RST 1 oz mixed (they do so happily for you) between 6's and 7's. One oz is usually plenty: I took out a long, crossing rooster the last week of KS pheasant season this year with an ounce of RST Lite 6's in a 65mm hull out of a light mod barrel. Post-mortem revealed numerous pellet strikes going past the meat well into the vitals.

The 16 has been called Queen of the Uplands for good reason, and is my go to gauge for even more. Long live the purple shell.

Mike

I love my 16 ga JP Sauer Hammer gun and Fox Sterlingworth. The RST and Polywad Ammo are both excellent.
I just ordered 2 flats of Polwad Vintager 7/8 oz 2 1/2 inch.
They work for me on Clays and Wild birds. 2 day delivery to the door. Very reasonable. Im not to crazy about the spreaders.

I agree with every thing wingshooter16 said. A 16 SxS just feels right in the uplands.

The RST Lite 1 oz load is excellent. The B&P F2 classic 1 1/16 oz load is OK also but has more recoil than I like in my 6 lb.1 oz 16.

I exchanged E-Mails with the current US distributor for B&P
re. why no lighter 16 ga loads were available. Their response was that they had asked B&P for 1 oz & 7/8 oz loads but B&P wasn't convinced that there was a large enough market so & a few calls & E-Mails to them might help.

BTW,they told me that the 12 ga High Pheasant 1 1/6 oz of #5 would be put back in the lineup which is good news for people wanting an excellent pheasant load that can be used in 2 1/2" 12 gauges.

I think of Joe Wood's "It's not how many, but how" matra at the foot of his posts.

If the gun is a fine piece of craftsmanship and it handles well, the gauge is incidental, to me.

You're quite welcome, Padawan.

I shot the low pressure (Doublewides?) from Polywad out the full choked left barrel of my 16 gauge A. Ilsley and they worked fine on quail this past season. I shot either handloads or Vintager 2.5" out of the right barrel.

What's wrong with the 16 gauge for waterfowl? If you can use a 20 you can use a 16.

I was referring to guns, not loads. But RST, for one, makes 3/4 oz 20ga loads. So does Fiocchi, I believe. However, thanks to Claybuster's relatively recent release of a very good 3/4 oz 20ga wad, reloading light 20's is a piece of cake. And good hulls are readily available.

The main problem is the limited choice of steel shot loads for the 16. That being said, in my relatively limited experience shooting ducks with a 16, Kent's Tungsten Matrix loads are great stuff--but very pricey.

Mr. Brown "brainwashed" me to the attributes of the 16 ga. years ago on the old "AllOutdoors" board and I will forever be in his debt. Grouse and woodcock are my passion and the 16 ga. with light 1 oz. & 7/8 oz. loads is in my mind perfect for these birds.

Rick

- Yup-- Nash Buckingham, Paul A. Curtis, Ray P. Holland, Havilah Babcock, Gene Hill. With New Era ammo closing its doors, this leaves RST, B&P and a few other 'custom ammo makers' to load the 2.5" light 16 loads for those fine older shorter than 2 & 3/4" chambered shotguns. Why put your money on a "under-dog"-- buy a light 12 and shoot any kind of light load through it that would "strain" a: 28, 20 or even the bastard 16 gauge. Or shoot a std 12 load in it when the game or clays game calls for it--

Because it's my money and I'll put it where I want to. Further, it's not just about weight- shorten the chamber all you want and make it as light as you dare: it's still .729. Size does matter.

Ergonomics,ergonomics (what ever that means).

12 ga barrels....too fat

20 ga barrels....to skinny

16 ga barrels....juuust right on a double; svelt

Oh Ja! Now we be draggin' Da Swedes into this fray, eh-- Svelt-- Swan (read MI John Traver's "Danny and the Boys") as "Da Yoop has Swedes uppa da ying-yang.

If my 12 side-by-sides (some "mike at .730" NOT .729- thank you very much) are " too fat"then what is the Lindner Daly 10 bore with 32" Krupp krautski steel barrels come in at--Roseanne Barr- Ophra Winfrey-- Aretha Franklin-- Now you slap one of dem dead beavers and their piece of wooden tail onto a nice Crown Smith 12- and Ja- too bulky indeed. But not the barrels per se. I would rather have a .729 or even a .730 NBD to work with and vary the load it shoots to the game- You want a superb quail gun? You take your nice BHE Parker 16, even on a size O frame with 28" barrels-- I'll take a Woodward or a Churchill or a Boss Limey 12 with 28 inch barrels also, 2.5" chambers and proofed for 1 & 1/8 oz. loads and throw waaay more efficient patterns- assuming the same choke constrictions, shot size and ounce load and distance as your 16 bore--and have a gun that weighs about the same. Same as API pressure and flow characteristics in a pipe- the larger the ID (and with proportional schedule or wall thickness) the more efficient the delivery- and shotty gun barrels are a form of pipes, are they not??

Yeah, it's just a hunk of pipe with a nail at one end.

I have 2 16's, neither a double. Both are great fun, and are built on 20 gauge frames. A M-12 and a S-16. Both are lovely shotguns.

I'm a huge fan of the Fiocchi GT loads. This is a beautiful, smooth shooting, consistent, and reliable shotshell. It's part of what makes the 16 so much fun.

Rick, I work under cover for the fine side by side dealers. Having convinced a few people of the virtues of the 16, I'm now working hard to convince them that light 12's are just the thing. No relationship to the fact that there are a whole lot of light 12's on the market now, many at very attractive prices . . .

Seriously, you're right. A nice, light 16 is about perfect for grouse and woodcock. I happen to shoot most of mine these days with a 20. And even though I complain about ammo and reloading issues with the 16, I'm still tempted every time I see a really nice one.

And when did you go off your meds?

There is a gun shop that I frequent that has a Cresent 16 ga. hammer gun with fluid barrels and a short stock for a teen or woman and 28" barrels for $350. Bores are clean and brite. Private mail me if anyone is interested in the address of the shop.

Can not think of one drawback in owning and shooting the 16 bore, not one and that goes for all of them I own.

All good points, true, and worth heeding. I try to steer away from hulls found on the ground. I also have some of the Cheddites, and the black Remmies, too.