to "The checks in the mail" must be "These barrels haven't been cut".
Caveat Emptor
Lance

Yes, it stopped me buying a lovely F.T.Baker sidelock ejector that had been shortened to 28" from 30". Circumcised, one Gunsmith calls it. Lagopus.....

Another famous one when asked about the bores on old doubles "the bores are like mirrors", yeah because they were honed.

I cannot tell you the effort required to not comment

have a day

Dr.WtS

Wonko, you are not the only one!

JC

"We are working on your gun as we speak. It should be finished next week."

"...never raced or wrecked..."
"...original case colors..."
"...excellent condition..."
"...all original..."
"...un-messed with..."
"...rare..."
"...my dog is a great hunting dog..."

And finally, the biggest of the second biggest lies, "My wife is o.k. with me buying this gun."

"I can't believe I missed that..."

"Wow - I'd swear it wasn't like that when it left the shop..."

"If the work's done right, it's as good as original..."


OWD

"these red recoil pads really look good"

"Naw, they didn't cut the stock, someone just put this eraser on there"

"open those chokes up and your game bag will fill right up"

"this mid bead will really help your shooting"

"ejectors are essential and never break and are not troublesome"

"70-100 years of neglect with dings, scrapes and dents looks good on a gun, gives it character"

"Patina's not a rust oxide, it's natural aging (sweat polished)"

"open the chambers up and you can shoot anything outta this old gun, they really built 'em back then"

dealers who have no idea about chamber lengths and of actual bore and choke dimensions, bother me a bit. It is too easy to get a measurement. I can excuse wall thickness for non professional dealers, but the other stuff is easy.

Some villians are so normally clueless (like Cabelas Gun Library) I have come to expect it. On the subject of Cabelas at least the library lets me bring my stuff to measure and they dealt fairly based on the readings.

"... my dog has never done that before."

"MY BIRD!!!"

"Nimschke engraved!"

About one out of ten guns claimed to be engraved by LDN are the real thing. If it is signed "LDN" or "Nimschke" it should be viewed as a red flag unless documented or verified by an expert.

RB

Roger, do you have some examples of bogus Nimschke engraved guns or signatures you could share with us ? Wilson has quite a few examples in his book. Are there guns there that are suspect ?

"I own this land as far as you can see."
"I won this belt buckle".
"I was just trying to push that ewe through the fence".

The 28 is the perfect load. We know that the 16 is the perfect gauge.

this wont hurt a bit
choppers are 5 minutes out
I am going to hand carry these orders across psot to the 1 shop for you.
less than a box of shells through it.
factory original

heard this one at a show recently. guy was trying to sell me a gun. (I am a dealer) he said it was all complete. (pause) followed by saying "except it needs a firng pin, two screws and a rear sight!"

Daryl,

I have several images of examples of fake LDNs. I also see them at gun shows frequently. I won't display the images on a public forum however because I would be "outing" the owners who might take issue. I'm sure that some of those selling fake LDNs know it or may have been party to the counterfieting but many others really believe they have a gem.

It would be fair to ask how I know the difference. I can only say that I have made a study of the subject because it is something I am frequently asked about. There is also a book that features microscopic photograqphy that addresses the subject. It is entitled Gun Engraving as Decorative Art by the late Dr. Fredric A. Harris.

Regards,
Roger

Minor pitting...
Locks up like a Bank vault...
Sharp Rifleing....
Honest wear...
Good Rainy day gun....
A few freckles.....

I wish I could find the actual quote, but I read a neat little snippet that reminds me of this. The story is that Zora Arkus-Duntov was at a Corvette show and someone mentioned that they had several of his concept cars at the show. I think his reply was something like "we built five of them, and all eight are here today."
CHAZ

"Never driven in the rain"
And my favorite, "NIB, never been fired!"
Well, any gun made overseas will have been fired at the proofhouse, and American guns...how can you tell it's never been fired?

Lady Astor to Winston Churchill (The Prime Minister, not engraver):
"Mr Churchill, if you were my husband, I'd poison your drink."
Churchill: "Madam, if you were my wife, I would gladly drink it."

Those two never got on....Lady Astor.."Mr Churchill, you are drunk".....Churchill.."Maam, I maybe drunk but you are ugly and I will be sober in the morning"

Churchill on Atlee, I believe....."A modest man with much to be modest about"

"and I promise you" .[Just about any politician]
Mint condition .Like the gum well chewed .

My favorite description of guns with a few dings: "handling marks". Who the hell handled them anyhow, King Kong??

Roger, thanks for the note on Firearms Engraving as a Decorative Art. I purchased a copy this a.m. Any information on the subject is always interesting. Daryl

When a seller decides to use the word 'patina' in his or her description, the true definition should be sought in a proper dictionary! I have handled, and owned, countless guns with 'patina' that was nothing more than 100 years of rust build-up, polished smooth after decades of applications of oil and general use/handling.

Amen, regarding guns a trendy word for rust....... just like "the barrels only have one small dent" (that I can see or want to tell you about, hoping you are blind)...... .......and "it will never effect the guns shooting quality"......

Or how about:

"it looks like it should for a 100 year old gun" (that's been kept in a barn)

One of my favorites:

Assertion: "The guns only been test fired"

Reality: The gun was part of destructive testing done by some agency and it is the last example still in one piece.

Jim

"test fired only" really means: The gun store owner has taken it hunting for only one season.

"I hunt with my guns, they're not safe queens"

and

"gun has normal hunting wear"

meaning:....it's a beat up P.O.S. and has been used like a machete....

"high percentage of casecolors remaining in hidden areas"

means no visible case colors anywhere unless you're able loosen the buggered screws to get to the "hidden areas".

That's good Chuck....about like this one:

"it's only been 'lightly' sanded"....

meaning:....Godzilla and his file classmates worked on it.....

Rare. One of a kind. Truth there are thousands in far better shape which are not listed for sale at five times full retail price.

Refinished. Means half a bottle of Trueoil slopped over wood and metal alike.

Might want to have a gunsmith look at it before you shoot it. This is so it is easier to make a positive identity of the body. "Yeah that looks like most of the guy who had that gun. Told him I would never put a shell in it. Best to use as a stake for tomatoes. Must have got a second opinion."

Small crack in stock. Translation it looks like a car windshield after a cement block tossed into it.

Minor pitting translates into a perfect 3-D map of the Grand Canyon.

After market engraving, upgrade engraving, amateur engraving all denote scratches, gouges and dents put in by Chimp on LSD under going physical therapy. Best viewed while using LSD to see all the art and detail.

"full professional restoration"
means an off-face gun with a torched frame and True-oil applied with a wisk broom.

"Turnbull restoration"
means any actual re-color casehardened gun.

"It's a heirloom that's been in my family for generations"

Reality:
"I found it in a leaky barn on our old family farm and I want to ge as much as I can out of this rusting hulk"
Jim

The story I really enjoy is "Was owned by a Pilot, Sheriff, Doctor, Preacher and so on. Then the guns owned by famous Hunters, Military Officers, CIA Officers, or Writers, or very rarely all of these.

For example, awhile back I came across a nice Huskqvanar hammer gun at the SCI show in Dallas, that had a tag on it the said "Formerly Owned By Larry Brown", I asked the how much he would discount on that account, he said at least 500 bucks.

Ok Here's one for you"

"There's Slight traces of surface rust but HEY it's a Browning Diana Grade!!"

Diana must have bathed with it, or Bacchus pissed it on it one. Maybe both ?

"I've never shot it." Seller savvy enuf to know it'll double (those light trigger pulls on dry firing) but smart enuf to appear not to.

jack

"This gun has never been offered for sale before"
True statement, vendor at Dauphin Gun Show, Manitoba, March, 2010.

"Best ever found."

"Never had a screw turned."

Hey, I'll buy that Diana grade for $100...
My favorite from the gunsmith: "that stock was dented when it came in."
Sometimes..."it's Belgian-made"

Postoak, Thats not fair I discount all of Larry's previously owned guns......... if the buyer knows him. Fact is it's hard for me to find something in my inventory he has not owned.

"You don't say? Hmmm, I never noticed that."

Mike, that's Dauphin for you!

In original case with all accsesories .

A friend got it from the owner after an insurance settlement. The gun was in the cargo hold of a ship with other family possessions and the ship apparently leaked. Salt water rapidly took it's toll.
Jim

Yes, Canvasback, he did have a strong Ukranian accent!!

I ran 'em all!!

That'd be a good project for a top notch engraver, who also happens to be a stocker, welder, and makes Superposed barrels, frames and action parts for a hobby.

Me? I see a beltbuckle in the side of that receiver. I could saw that frame in half, mill it to a thin section, coin it out to a shallow pan shape, cut it into an oval and solder a twisted wire on for a border, put a belt loop and spur on the back and I'd have a "Super Diana" belt buckle.