Hi all, just was curious to see what you think on this subject. As it stands today, the fad/trend is for longer bbls.

But, what do you think about shorter bbls (25"/26") do they have a nich in the doublegun world?

As we all know, years ago, short bbls were in for the uplands, does anyone think they'll make a come back?

Your thoughts please!

Thanks as always!

Greg

I don't pay a great eal of attention to barrel length. However, do find that longer barrels usually do contribute a great deal to the higher swing efforts (unmounted and mounted MOI's) that I find I shoot better.

DDA

I use 25" barreled guns to shoot driven game in the UK. I have heard the argument that longer barrels help to maintain swing many times. For this to be true, longer barrels must be slower in starting to swing through a bird. I like the fast handling that short barrels give me and I have not experienced any problems with hitting both high pheasants or fast partridges. Short barreled guns are usually lighter to carry when walking to your peg, this helps to get you settled before the drive starts.

Rocketman, does length have any real affect on the MOI versus the weight of the barrels and the affect of length acting on the point of balance as a lever? That is, would the MOI be different for barrels of different lengths if the point of balance and the weight were the same? My high school physics tells me that with the exception of the slight difference in resistance through the air that it is the mass of the barrels forward of the point of balance that is the major factor.

I have spent much time considering this, and trying to be honest with myself about why I prefer longer barrels. I have come to these conclusions. Long barrels are aesthetically more pieasing to my eyes. The shortest barreled double I own is 28", and it is a .410. It looks longer and much more elegant than a 28" 12 ga., the slenderness of the tubes adding a subtle "gracefulness" to it's lines, as opposed to the fat tubes on a 12.

Aesthetics aside, I have believed for most of my life that I shoot a longer barreled gun better than a short one. I have long arms so naturally grip the gun farther out the barrels than most men. This gives me added leverage in swinging. I believe this factor is not considered in most discussions of barrel length preferences, but is crucial to handling qualities in a particular gun. So, I tend to move a shorter barreled gun too quick, and stop it too quick.

That said, spending a little time with Don, and his MOI device, has been a revelation to me. He helped me see and understand that barrel length is not nearly as demanding a mistress as is where the weight in the gun is located, or distributed. I.e., a short barreled gun can actually handle more like what I feel I need than one a bit longer, if the weight is distributed farther away from the balance point. This has changed my way of thinking greatly about handling (not about looks!). I will give more consideration to that, and less to length. As a caveat though, I still find that the vast majority of longer guns suit my handling characteristics more so than shorter ones.

SRH

My longest barrels are on a 10 bore with 32". My shortest barrels are on a 12 bore with 28". I can hit better with the 28" but I don't think it has as much to do with barrel length as it does with stock fit. I don't like the looks of a gun with barrels less than 28".

Greg, we all have our preferences, but I don't see short barrels making a comeback in popularity. Reason: Barrel length for field guns is influenced, more than most of us believe, by the clay target games. Short barrels were once in favor for upland hunting, and that trend (IMO) was strongly influenced by the then relatively new clay target game: skeet. Remember when almost everyone shot 26" barreled skeet guns? Carried over to the trend in upland guns, and skeet was created as practice for upland shooting.

Now we have sporting clays influencing barrel length, and those guys have gone longer and longer. Preferred barrel length on skeet guns has gotten longer.

Personally, I like doubles with 28" barrels for almost everything (hunting and clay targets) except trap, which I very seldom shoot. And when I do, I dig out my old Sterlingworth 12ga with 30" barrels. Some gun writers talk about the advantages of shorter barreled guns for grouse and woodcock hunting, because you're less likely to whack short barrels on trees. I've whacked plenty of barrels when shooting grouse and woodcock, but it's seldom the last 2-3" that come in contact with the tree in question. But gun for gun, shorter barrels mean lighter weight, and that can be an advantage for the grouse and woodcock hunter.

Larry,

As always, well said.

I shoot targets better with 30" - 32" because once I get them started it is hard to subconsciously stop them!

Mark

Hi COL, excellent point on Sporting Clays. I remember when the game fist started, it was supposed to be a game that hunters (with hunting guns) could recreate field type situations and help them shoot better in the field. Of course it evolved into a target game with specialized guns, chokes and what have you. To bad, seems if you show up at a SC course with your trusty hunting gun, your looked at like some kind of odd ball.

Oh well another topic!

Thanks again!

Greg

Greg,

For the Upland hunting you and I do here on the Northern Plains, short barrels are no handicap and may be an advantage on our flushed pheasants, sharp tails and huns. If we did a lot of hunting in the wetlands where passing shooting is a way of life, I think longer barrels would serve us better.

I shoot 26 inch barrels very well on pheasants, but I do like the looks of 28 or 29 inch barrels on a SxS.

Over the years, I've gravitated to 28" barrels as a minimum for any new shotguns. That is true for both SxS & O/U's. I have many 30"s and several 32"s. They simply feel, and as mentioned above, look better.
However, reality is that I shoot the 26" ones that I have, just as well. (Which isn't great in any case.) Go figure.

I think that is one that is very much a question of personal choice. I seem to perform best with 29" or 30" barrels in a side by side 12 bore. Whether or not it is down to my technique or is psycological I have no idea. Lagopus.....

Well said, Stan. Your thoughts on this pretty much mirror my own.

One thing worth mentioning here: long barrels do not mean heavier barrels. Today's gunmakers have new, lightweight steels and technology to produce high-strength, lightweight barrels. You can have a 32" barreled gun that has the dynamics of a 28" heavier-barreled gun.

Also, for me, you cannot over-emphasize the aesthetics of longer barrels, especially in 12 ga. guns.
JR

Over the past 20 years I have shot the virtually the same gun Fox 16 gauges. All have the same stock configuration and are within a few ounces in weight. The only variables are barrel length which range from 26 inches to 32 inches and chokes. For hunting (my primary use) Sporting Clays and to a lessor extent Skeet. I have found no disadvantage to shooting short barrel guns over long barreled guns, if fact except for close flushing birds (quail) over dogs in moderate to heavy cover which requires a quicker target acquisition and more rapid shot I have found that I shoot equally well with the shorter barrels with less choke as I do with longer barrels and tighter chokes at my comfortable shooting range which is 35 - 40 yards. From my experience I find that shooting one gun that fits you properly and that you are completely familiar with is more important than barrel length or choke selection. Of course your results may vary.

For clay target shooting, I prefer 30-32 inch barrels. For hunting though, I prefer 28 inch at least for grouse and quail which are relatively close shots. For longer shots I'm sure I would prefer longer barrels, but I don't do much of that sort of hunting. I have often wondered if persons of shorter stature might get along better with shorter barrels than taller individuals??

Like others here, this pretty well captures my thoughts. I do find that there is no prescription to barrel length and success. I have 26" barreled guns on which I wouldn't change a thing, and likewise several 29"+ that are similarly perfect to me. I do find that they all fit well, and have similar "feel", except for some purposely different (such as trap guns). Fit is all important.

The majority of my shotguns have 28" barrels with a few 26" an 30" examples. I have never felt hindered by either shorter or longer barrels and I usually do my best shooting with the guns I'm most comfortable with.
Jim

I like em all. I have guns from 26" to 32". Admittedly, some of my best shooting has been with the 32" guns. But, some of the most fun I've had was with the 26" guns. My 28" 28ga Parker Repro is such a low MOI that it is definitely harder to control than a couple of my 26" 410's.

26" for close cover snap shooting.

28" for open field shooting.

30" for skeet.

dont shoot trap.

I think a lot of this has to do with your vision, and also how you mount a shotgun--First off, I only shoot 12 bore shotguns, and either Model 12's or double triggered side-by-sides. I also am NOT a clays shooter- see Hemingway's "On Shooting Flying 1935 and his comments on clays versus driven tall pheasants- Also the rib configuration on a side-by-side, in my experience, also makes a slight difference. Most of my 12 side-by-sides have either 28" or 30" file cut rib barrels, but I have two ribbed LC Smiths that are different-slightly- (1) a 1945 Ideal FWE with 26" barrels and with the post 1939 single sighting plane raised rib, no middle bead, std. front brass bead- the raised rib makes the barrels seem like 28" to my eyes when I am mounting and shooting this open bored Smith- Imp. Cyl. right and Mod. left- the rest of my guns are Mod. Imp. Mod. and Full- the antithesis is another Smith, a Specialty Grade R frame ejector gun made in 1928 with 32" barrels and the then new factory (not Simmons or Moneymaker)raised ventilated rib, no middle bead (I don't like them) and small German silver front bead- when I mount that Elsie, the barrels seem a bit 'fore-shortened" by the raised rib- again, to my eyes- and them don't seem to be any longer that my Smiths with 30" file cut rib barrels--

Small gauge side-by-sides are not my "thing", and even with a beavertail forearm, I would wrap my fingers around the small diameter barrels, not so much a concern with my 12 gauge side-by-sides, all of which have splinter forearms. The Churchill XXV stubby barreled 12 bores are beautiful handling guns, but in my case, going into side-by-sides from years of shootin' and shuckin' Model 12's-- I like the weight forward apparent balance that helps me follow through on crossing birds- and 80% of my game shooting is pass shooting- 20% walk-up behind either flushing or pointing dogs on game farm pheasants-- others will have different viewpoints here, I am certain of that--

I favor shorter barrels.

My primary gun is a 27inch 16 gauge

My secondary back-ups is a 26inch and 27.5 16 gauge guns.

The only longer barrels I have are in 12s I do not shot much and my 16 citori I can't bring myself to sell.

I agree that MOI dynamics are more important than barrel length.

Though I do not discount barrel length can be much more important to some of us than other factors.

I have owned a 24in 20ga OU and a 25in 12ga SXS but neither worked out. Their balance was wrong and I did not swing them well.

I just got back from a test on the trap range with 2 guns. One, my "go to" 12g is a 30" Lefever A grade (real Lefever not Nitro). The second was a new to me LC Smith Monogram of 1927 vintage with the slight raised vent rib on 32" barrels. Each weighs 7# 14 oz. The LOP and DAH are within 1/2 inch of each other. Compared to the Lefever the LC Smith was front heavy and my acquisition to target was slower. The point of impact for the LCS is apparently lower. I could get used to it put the difference in balance would not make the front heavier LCS my choice for day to day trap.

Well said, Stan. 'Tis a delight to see you understand and retain. I hope the learning remains useful to you. Enjoyed our discussion.

DDA

Mike, my research to date says you may have 26" barrels with MOI similar enough to your longer bbled guns that it doesn't matter to you, individually. Also likely, you as an individual are just not sensitive to swing efforts. That is how I figure it.

IMO, individuals should "fit" the dynamics numbers (weight, balance, and swing efforts) of a shotgun just as they do the stock dimension (LOP, cast, drops, etc.). People of smaller stature/lower strength prpbbly will "fit" better to lighter guns with lower swing effort. Consider that Brit game guns were generally built for folks weighing about 150# or less!!

I am 5'7" and shrinking, I like 26 inch barreled doubles.
They work well for upland
They work well in the duck blind
They do not get in the way in timber

But I shoot about 200 shells a week and am used to the ways and wiles of the short barrels.

Besides, who looks at the barrels anyway??

AND they are usually cheaper to buy than the long barreled doubles

Mike

I rarely shoot feathered birds anymore but shoot copiously quantities of clay targets. I prefer 32" but can suffer with 30's
anything else just doesn't look correct !!!!!

Dr. Bob, what are the balance points (teeter-totter point) of these two guns? May explain the front heavy feel of the LC.

DDA

Ken are you shooting Trap, Skeet, 5-Stand or Sporting Clays with these guns??

Thanks
Mike

25,26,27 inch barrels for woodcock,quail,grouse,rabbits.28 inch and longer for dove,ducks,geese.shorter barrels are easier to handle in the turkey woods also. Bobby

I will get photos of the balance point when I get home tonight.

I was hoping someone else would say it so I wouldn't have to..double guns with those long barrels look really funny! I like 28" barrels; they just look like a double gun oughta. Plus, trying to get those 30 or 32" barrels out of a pickup in a hurry without wrapping the barrels around the door frame is more than I'm capable of. So you clay shooters (of which I'm not one) can have 'em!

Ok. On the set I described above these are the point of balance.
Lefever on top
LC Smith on the bottom
Note the change in the balance point as related to the forends.

Fin come out and say it. They are really hard to get them out the window when your shooting those western Kansas roosters from the pickup truck.

Yes....very little trap, a lot of SC and Skeet all low gun.

Nah; when I do that I usually just ride in the bed and shoot over the cab.

Thanks for the photo, Dr. Bob. Clearly the LC has a farther forward CG. That will put more of the weight in the front hand, which most people interpert as barrel heavy/weight forward/etc. The closer one hand is to the CG than the other hand, the higher the % of the guns total weight it will support. So, you can see that balance loction, along with individual front hand location, determines the weight distribution into the two hands. Most people will judge a gun as heavier than it really is if the weight distribution into the hands is not to their liking. On the other hand (pun intended), they will judge a gun as lighter than it really is when the weight distribution is to their liking. There is no such thing as "perfect balance" any more than there is "perfect LOP."

DDA