OK, I have an old 1930s double which has probably never been opened for service.

The screw are perfect, but the outside of the gun shows minor corrision. It function fine, but I hope to shoot it a lot and the internals undoubtedly are dry at this point. So I'd like to fully inspect and get some fresh grease and oils inside it.

I have a very good old gun guy in town here who has used a penetrating oil and low heat to try to free the screws. He has good tools. One screw moved, three haven't. No damage yet. The one screw that was removed showed substantial rust.

Does anybody have any "tricks" for getting frozen screws to move?

A gunsmith posted the following on the Fox Collectors forum:

There is only one safe way to remove a really tight screw without messing up the head. You need a drill press. Unplug it before you do anything. Do NOT plug it back in until you are finished with the gun. This trick will work with any gun.
Find a bit from a screw driver set and fit it nicely to the slot in question. Chuck the bit up in the drill press. Again, the drill press is NEVER TURNED ON. Once the bit is chucked up tightly, place the gun with the slot in line with the bit. Now lower the bit into the slot by using the handle on the drill press you would use to lower a drill bit into work. Once the bit is in the slot, keep good pressure down on the bit, take the chuck in your hand while maintaining the downward pressure on the bit, and turn the chuck counterclockwise. If it will not turn, you may need to put a pipe wrench on the chuck. I have never ruined a screw or failed to remove a stuck screw with this method. Again, the drill press is NOT plugged in, this all happens manually.
PS. Two people make this a much easier process if an extra set of hands are available.

That's a good idea. I'll bet it works pretty well.

Using the drill press works well, something will move. I had to put a lever on my chuck to move a Lefever pivot screw after it had soaked in ATF and acetone for a couple of days. However the next time I turn a screw and it breaks won't be the first. One nice thing the broken off head will have a nice slot.
bill

The drill press method does work nicely. Saves the screw head slot from damage.
But as pointed out,, you can twist the head of the screw off very easily. It all depends on the strength of the screw.
With all that leverage, it will either turn the screw, twist the head off the screw or break the driver bit.
If you break the head off cleanly, you can usually complete disassembly. Then it's easier to drill out the remaining threaded core. That's not something to look forward to, but it's better than doing the job on the assembled gun and finish surfaces.

Most times it does a very nice job of removing the stuck screw.
A good soak in penetrant for a time is worth it before a trip to the drill press table.
A quick application of heat from the tip of a soldering gun just before the bit goes down into the slot of the screw doesn't hurt the effort either.

Each one you tackle is different.

Before you do any of these things, strip the wood off the metal parts and put some Kroil on the screws. Get some on the top and bottom sides if possible. Let it soak for several days using more Kroil as needed. This is creeping oil so it is best to put the part on an old cookie sheet pan or something similar.
The idea is not to break off a screw head or twist a bit to the point of making it let go. If it doesn't move after a week of soaking try a little heat then put on more Kroil while the parts are still hot. Let it soak some more. I have found that if you have to, it is best to flood the inside with Kroil if need be to get it on the inside end of the screws.
I also use the drill press method but with my minnie mill, it has a knotched spindle ring at the top and a wrench that matches. I tighten the shaped and sized bit into the chuck, line it up perfectly in the screw slot. Keeping down pressure on it I back the screw out with the spindle wrench. This is much more controlable than using a drill press. It is really important, especially with very thin slots, to make sure your bit fits the slot well and fills it up as much as possible. If the bit needs to be thinned just a little I found that an 1 1/4 inch diameter grinding stone slowly turning in the Dremel tool will be the right size to thin them with. Go slow and dip it often in water to avoid loosing the temper in the bit, it is easy to get the small thin ones too hot. Bob

I have ran into the same problem with a stubborn trigger plate screw that probably hadn't been removed since the Kaiser was a teenager. I made no progress after an extended penetrating oil soak until I figured out a trick.

I ground the tip of a cheap soldering iron to fit the slot tightly. Every afternoon I would set up the iron in the slot and let it sit for 15 minutes or so to heat the entire screw. Then put the oil back on it. As the screw cooled it pulled the oil down in around the threads. After a week or so it came out like it was installed yesterday.

The drill press method that Wild Skies discussed is what I've done and it works great. However, be careful, I tried to remove a stuck screw with a drill press and split the top of the screw into two pieces. Of course then I was able to pull the piece off and clamp a vice grips to the stub. Unfortunately, I still had to have a new screw machined. All I'm saying is that the method works great, but you still better be careful.
Steve

Shane - that's a brilliant idea. I've never heard of anything like it. You should send it in to one of Popular Mechanics-type magazines and collect the check they give for good ideas.

I also attest to the drill press method. It works great with the corresponding caveats.

JC

The Chapman Screwdriver set works about as well and lets you put a lot of downward pressure on the screw while turning.

thanks

you know how it is.....blind chicken etc. etc.

lol

I have found a well fit screw driver with a handle long enough so I can comfortable push down on the handle with my chin while turning the driver with my hand works well with stubborn screws. Soaking with a penetrating oil first helps.

I used to have a boat with twin outboards I used in saltwater. After I had a huge problem taking the lower unit apart because of corrosion between the SS screws and the aluminum lower unit housing I put liquid Permatex gasket cement on all the screws when I put it back together and years later had no problem taking it apart again. Maybe a small dab of gasket cement on the threads of a shotgun wouldn't be a bad idea to help with future servicing. As it is, I always put a dab of Permatex Anti-seize (sparkplug) Lubricant on the threads of the percussion nipples when I'm done servicing and cleaning my muzzle loaders. I also use the stuff on the choke tubes on my Remington 870 rainy day gun and have never had things stick together later.
Steve

I don't disagree with any of the advice,this is just my 2 cents worth of opinion. I use the chuck key as a lever,hoping that it won't provide enough leverage to twist the screw off. If it's stubborn,I find it sometimes works to strike the screw driver "smartly"with a hammer(of course,with the screwdriver in the slot)to "shock" the screw. Sometimes it helps to turn the screw clockwise,then counterclockwise several times.This is sometimes enough to break the rust loose. If you have to resort to an impact driver, you have lost the screw.
Good luck
Mike

Mike,
Good suggestions, I've had good results doing all of what you just wrote.
Steve
PS even using the key of the chuck you can over torque a screw, at least I did.

KROIL

Rockdoc,
Maybe you are just"more of a man" than I am.
Mike

Mouse Milk (I kid you not, there is such stuff) is also a very good penetrating oil.

DDA

Maybe one day I'll learn not to contribute to these discussions, even when I compliment someone I get in trouble, jeez!
Steve

Rockdoc
YOU ARE the man for today !!!
This IS Rockdoc day

All hail the chief



Mike

Steve, your contributions are always welcome, do not restrain yourself!

Surely Der Ami's post is lacking a smiley.

JC

Sorry, I'm afraid I'm being overly sensitive. As for Der Ami's missive, he may be right. I grew up to be 6'5" in high school and I was strong as an ox, I didn't work out, I just came by it naturally. On the downside, I was clumsy and awkward as hell. I do have a long history of twisting off lug nuts, splitting sockets, breaking T-wrenches and breaker bars. So maybe Der Ami's comment was well founded. At 65 I'm still pretty strong, not like I once was, but probably stronger than many guys my age, especially if I'm pissed-off and my adrenalyn kicks in. The Hulk comes to mind (LOL).
Steve

Rockdoc,
Believe me, you aren't in any trouble with me. You young lads know how to add the smiley faces, but us computer illiterate old farts don't. I was 5'8" in high school,but am 5'6 1/2"now.If I have any more back and neck operations I will be 5'4".
Mike

Sorta like those 9.3x72R's changing dimensions....

Here is the best method I have found. As long as I am not too close to wood, I hold a hair dryer about an inch over the screw for about a minute. I have an icecube ready to press on the screw head and surrounding metal until it melts. Then do it again.

grouse guy,
Here is a simple method to free slotted screws used by English gunsmiths.Grind a turnscrew to fit the slot in the screw head, make sure that the driver blade bottoms out in the screw slot.With the driver located in the screw slot,using small mechanics hammer give the top of the handle of the turnscrew several sharp downward blows.This will in most situations free a rusted in screw, prior to normal turnscrew removal.

Hello All:

Thanks for your varied advice.

Presently the screw heads and tips are being doused in Kroil for a few days. I then plan to shock the screw heads with a light hammer, and perhaps 100 rounds of targets.

And I may even heat the screws with a soldering iron, keeping a bucket of water nearby, should ignition occur!

I'm also going to order a replacement set of action screws in the event any snap or bugger. I really like the drill press approach, but not having a good press and cradle handy I'll leave that technique for a pro should I need to ship it away for service.

You guys are a great resource.

Regards,
GG

Hold the gun in a padded vice .Use only correctly ground screw drives ,I don't use turn screws never have and never will .
Penetrating oil,heat ,cold what ever but a good size screw driver handel that you can get good grip on is half the battle in my opinion . If its a flat bladed driver then a spanner can give you the extra torque needed .Please also remember that some guns have hidden locking screws on cocking dog screws and top lever pins for example .

All good advice. Couple observations based on 50+ years amateur machine work.

Kroil is awesome.

Time is awesome and just be patient.

Heat and cold and mild mechanical shock help Kroil get in there.

The drill press idea is very good and works well. I use it a lot to start taps - but I manually turn the v-belt pulley at the top of the spindle. That gives me enough leverage - more than enough. It's more than one need to loosen a stuck screw. Long lever-arms and wrenches on the chuck are unnecessary and can cause damage.

Fifty-plus years ago I had a drill press with a handwheel that fit over the splined shaft at the top. Incredibly useful - never seen one since. So I use the big V-belt pulley to turn the spindle instead.

Anal-compulsive attention to turnscrew fit to the slot is absolutely important. Precision grind your tips to fit.

Very good and helpful thread!

In lieu of a screwdriver, I have used a 1/4" ratchet with a screwbit after heating and iceing. Use plenty of downforce. More torque than a screwdriver, but go slow and stop when you "think" you should because you can break the bit and scratch the gun.

There is a ton of information on the internet devoted to removing stubborn screws and fasteners. It's not all about searching for junk science to support bans on lead ammunition for hunting.

'Thanks', Keith, for saving me the trouble of having to say the same thing in regard to 'Grouse Guy' and his efforts to ban lead shot in the uplands.

Rob Harris

Update: Kroil loosened three of the action screws for manual removal, and the most stuborn under the lever came out like a champ using the drill press after we mustered the courage to try the technique. Condition was not as bad inside as I'd feared, but service was way (80 years?) overdue.

Thanks again to all.

Info for the fellow Cunucks on the board - I managed to track down the mythical Kroil in Canada at "Century Vallen" in Calgary, (403) 287-1690. Apparently, they are the only supplier in all of Canada! They also have multiple locations in other cities.