I've got a pile of old London boxlocks that I've hoarded over the years, but for whatever reason, I've been spellbound by the one in the bunch that would seem to be "least valuable". This ever happen to any of you?

Amidst the collection I have two Westley Richards boxlocks. One is what I'd call "premium grade" with spectacular chain damascus, nice engraving and great wood. The other is what I'd call "gamekeeper's knockabout". The gamekeeper's gun has ZERO engraving, twist or bernard damascus (my naming for the lower grade damascus escapes me), slightly above average wood. Many times the latter gun is called a "gold letter" Westley Richards because it has the maker's name in gold across the sides of the boxlock.

For whatever reason, I just couldn't stop enjoying the beauty and the understated nature of that WR boxlock...the plain jane one. I've decided to have the gun completely restored top to bottom including new case coloring and see what I'm left with.

Any of you fall in love with a gun that is like this? The lines and action filing is just so beautiful I think it's the prettiest boxlock I've ever touched even though it was never meant to be anything but a modest gun.

Would love to see pics of your minimalist gun that has all the right aesthetics.

I have an Isaac Hollis of London that is much like that. It has a Westley Richards patent top lever action, boxlock side by side, damascus barrels with no engraving except the name. It has such a graceful line with a half pistol grip stock with rounded butt. I was shooting it at sporting clays only the other weekend which was the first time it had been out for a couple of years. I will see if I have any photos on file.

The other is even plainer being a Bland 'Keeper's Hammergun' model which is about as plain as they get. It is only proofed for blackpowder but I seem to shoot it well. I did get a straight 25 at sporting clays with it once. Sometimes something plain can exude a sort of understated elegance; well at least in the case of the Hollis. Sometimes a gun can just be a bit overdone. I think here of American Parkers (no offence intended) but I wouldn't want anything higher than a 'C' grade. Higher than that and they are guilding the lily. There is something about a 'Trojan' grade with good colour hardening on the action that has appeal. Lagopus.....

The Johann Fanzoj site has a number of "over the top" rifles and shotguns, an example of which is:

http://www.fanzoj.com/en/gunroom/flagship_guns/lionfire_rifle/index.html

Rookhawk, Be careful. The unexplained attraction that has you spellbound may disappear if you have the gun refinished.
terc

I was spell bound by a Boss with ported barrels once....

Me Too!...Geo

P.S.: Still am to some extent. I'm sort of deflated about 'bringing it back' at present, but I bet something good will come of it yet. Wouldn't be surprised if someone desparately needed parts off of it!...Geo

Agree with Terc.
JR

Any boxlock side-by-side, no matter the maker's marque and or embellishments, has all the grace and beauty of Aretha Franklin- especially the over-heavy Winchester M21's, M24's and the Stevens 311- exceptions are the Dickinson round actioned and the Westley Richards drop lock series-- a Fine Boss sidelock, no matter what port it was shipped to, whether side-by-side or even the semi-gauche under/over (as the Limeys like to phrase it)is a graceful and a joy to handle as the late Ingrid Bergmann or Carole Lombard. Just as the late Paul A. Curtis wrote in his 1934 tome- "Guns and Gunning" the British sidelock is the thoroughbred, the gentleman's gun-- the boxlock is the ploughhorse"!!

Not a gun like that, but THAT particular gun, is how I would say it. Yes, there have been several over the years. A 16g Model 12, a John Dickson side pedal with very little engraving but plenty of patina and knicks and scratches, and several others. They all were well used guns that bore their scars with grace.

One of the ugliest guns I ever saw was a brand new shiny Winchester 101. One of the most attractive guns I ever saw was the same gun three years later. The American walnut stock had dulled and darkened to a red-black almost color, the surface of the action looked like antique silver, the barrels went from shiny black to a soft charcoal grey. It had been heavily used by a champion skeet shooter to prepare for major tournaments, the constant handling had mellowed it.

So be careful with the restoration. Beauty and patina are literally skin deep. That translates to 5/1000 of an inch in guns, if that.

And do remember the process of distressing of new furniture so it gets to look old real fast. There is a reason for the hefty premium for distressing.

As for lines, you have it spot on. No amount of engraving can compete with inherently graceful lines. The WR Heronshaw, if I recall the model name, is one of the most graceful boxlocks ever built.

"exceptions are the Dickinson round actioned and the Westley Richards drop lock series-"

Perhaps you meant Dickson? And it is NOT a boxlock, not by a long shot!

Meybe you have not seen boxlocks by speicalists, like the Ivor Roberts, the Ferlib Europe, the Famars Zeus. They are truly beautiful guns with exceptional lines.

That isn't writing, per say, it is marketing, and you have taken the bait, hook, line and sinker.

The boxlock is an improvement over the sidelock. A sidelock is no more than a hammergun with the hammers moved inside, upsetting the beautiful, narrow frame that makes a hammergun so perfect in the hand.

I'm not a hammergun guy, but, any gauge hammergun by an English maker, compared side by side with the same makers hammerless sidelock is far more graceful and beautiful. The boxlock is everyman's gun, built to a level we can all afford, and frustrating Murphy's law to a level unapproached by the sidelock design.

Many of us prefer a boxlock. The good ones are great.

Best,
Ted

The boxlock is simpler, therefore easier to regulate than the sidelock with its 19 bits per side.

The Model 21 Winchester simplified the boxlock even further, doing away with the V springs, using coils instead. The V springs in the boxlock are A- hard to make and fit, and B- they drag on the top of their slot when firing and cocking.

However, to return to the original posting. There are simple sidelocks, like the Chech BRNO. A gunsmith friend has one that has been used hard. The greying edges and the dulled barrels give that gun a soft overall look that would qualify as a simple gun with plenty of character.

Here's an example somewhat similar to my project:

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/LotDetailsPrintable.aspx?intObjectID=1367600

Again, nothing special or deluxe, by far the simplest of the dozen boxlocks I own but I'm smitten by its lines. I don't have a knockabout gun for rough shooting or bad weather and I thought this gun has a lot of "soul", the perfect candidate. Mine is getting the full treatment because it is a candidate for remanufacturing to as-new as opposed to most vintage guns that are treated with thoughtful, subtle conservation. Nope, this one of mine is going to have zero patina when I'm done with it. For the price of a browning Citori I'll have a brand new side by side that looks the way it did 125 years ago when it came off the shelf at Westley Richards in London, likely sold to an estates' gamekeeper.

The way the action was filed and continued into the styling of the stock head (no drop points) just moves me. The unique WR top lever is cool too. Once it has case colors again I feel the contrast will be as it should be.

This is an E&G Higham I picked up last October. There is just something good about a 6 pound, 6 ounce 12-g with 28-inch barrels.

Nice

When I traded off my LC Smith 5E 20ga while retaining a less valuable Louis Christophe by Jules Bury some of my friends thought I was crazy.

Some guns simple sing to you in look and feel while a more valuable gun does not.

Some of those guns look ideal for the Russian kleptocracy. Whew, they were making my eyes ache.

Some of the others are pretty spectacular, though. Loved the break action single barrel rifles, both the round action and the sidelock.

Rookhawk, good luck with the project. Not all guns demand absolute adherence to the rule of don't mess with it. I've done some of mine, my favorite being a non collectible early A grade Fox. When I look at it I can imagine it on the rack in the store in 1909 when my great grandfather picked it out. I usually only use it for turkey now. 12 gauge, 30" barrels full & full. May not be to everyone's taste but I like it.

Please post pics when its done.

I love this gun, just the way it is...too short and lacking finish on the frame.

I think it has more to do with how the gun has served you in the field as opposed to any aesthetics. Shotguns regardless of action tend to look that much brighter and carry that much better after you make a sweet shot on a fast crossing bird.

Like the old pick-up truck that has dug you out of a snow bank or a mud hole or has fired up on a cold winter morning and people look at it saying why do you keep that old ‘thing’ around why don’t you just get rid of it and get a new one. Some, will never understand the bond that grows between a man and his machine.

Sometimes less is more.

Couldn't agree more. More than once I have gone from spellbound to 'pissed off" once a few boxes have been run through said gun.

Bank accounts are the one clear exception to this old quotation- ditoo 'size matters"-- As my Granddaddy used to say- "Son, sometimes money doesn't talk, but remember, BIG money stands on top of the Empire State Building and screams so that the Limeys in Trafalgar Square can hear it--"

I have a very plain French MAC SxS 16 that I feel that way about.

A very simple unadorned utility gun than handles "just right".

Quote:
"Model 21 Winchester simplified the boxlock even further, doing away with the V springs, using coils instead. The V springs in the boxlock are A- hard to make and fit, and B- they drag on the top of their slot when firing and cocking."

A 1915 patent by Stevens covers coil spring strikers and was used on models into the mid 30s.

And the short-lived Baker sidelock hammerless doubles had spring loaded firing pins that rebounded the firing pin back from the primer pocket after firing- I will concede that of all the American boxlock doubles, as saith both the late Mikey McIntosh and Steve (Model 21's came out in 1941) Bodio-- the AH Fox guns had the best sculpted frame lines--and like the M21, piano wire coil springs--

My pre-WWI J Stevens which, if memory serves me right, was a model 325 had coil mainsprings & was hammer fired, not striker fired. Frame on it was like a cigar box, much like a 21 without them pointedty thangs. It also had push rods for cocking similar to a 21.
I don't recall the exact introduction date for the 21, but was early 30s, certainly not '41.