Estranged son of DARNE sliding breech maker Regis Darne, Francisque apparently died youngish, and the name passed into the hands of Mouthier, Jallas, Soleilhac, and others to end up part of the Verney-Carron stable where it died.

Would be grateful for those who have catalogues from the various "Successeurs" to let me know what's what and, perhaps, to set up some scans. My own "new" 16 gauge F. Darne is marked "E. Jassal & Co. Successeurs". I know that Ted Schefelbein has posted here about this company and seek more detail.

Regards, Tim

Hi Tim,
Are you sure that all these companies are related?
The "successeurs" itself does not imply it unless the guns or catalogs would be marked something like:
"Xxxxx F. Darne Successeurs" ( Also possibly abbreviated as "Succr")
"Yyyyy Successeurs" by itself just would say the brand Yyyyy belongs to a new owner but the entity name is unchanged or little changed.

Many firms made or retailed Darne like guns and they did not need to have any connection to Darne, after the patent had run out in the early 20th century.

Unfortunately, I don't have any relevant catalogs.

Best regards,
WC-

Tim,
The "Jallas & Cie" era catalog I have is a Cornell Pubs reproduction. My wife has a new scanner-I have an old computer. It hasn't been a good blend of tehnologies, otherwise what I have would be yours.
Not surprised to hear of the trouble with barrels you suffered, since, the old man (Paul) died, and took some pretty valuable skills with him.
A photo of the barrel flats would make grading possible, here.Francisque Darne was indeed Regis Darne's eldest son, and did start the company that built your gun. The designs were tinkerings of Regis Darne's 1894 patent guns to begin with, for the most part. Francisque Darne died in 1917, and the company soldiered on for many years afterward. I have a post 1945 catalog copy, and the guns all appear similar to the pre-war designs.
Much like many French (and other) companies in a tough market, the earlier, the better, but, not always.
I'll dig around and see what I can find.

Best,
Ted

The name is still alive - see http://www.fusildarne.com/

Travel with me to the wonderful planet of Yesterday and open your current issue (1971) of Stoeger's and turn to page 112 and 113. There you will find those Darne shot guns in 12,20 and 28 gauges and at reasonable prices starting at $235;A price that would be well over $3,000 in Obama dollars.
Get your order in early.
I have no way of knowing if Stoeger's was actually carrying these guns as stock item.I did hear (again,a long time ago ) that some items advertised in Stoeger's were ordered and the order was then forwarded to the manufacturer for fulfillment.
Don't know if that was actually the case.
Best Regards
Gene

It may be hard to believe, but, Fransisque Darne and Darne are two different companies that produced different designs of sliding breech guns at the same time.

Welcome to France.

The OPs questions refer to the former, the Stoeger company imported the later.

Although a base model R10 is no longer produced, 3 large wouldn't be anywhere near what a new R15 would cost today. Geoffroy Gournet is the current importer.

Best,
Ted

Ted,
The British are no better:
"Joseph Lang & Son" and "James Lang" were both competing for the same business and customers around 1889. James was the son of Joseph.
WC-

Hey Distel:

I think that $235.00 in 1971 would work out closer to $1333.21 in "Obama" dollars today!

Franchi

Have a question about the French proofmark on my Francisque Darne 16 gauge. The crown over R marks it as an ordinary reproof with 70mm chambers (2-3/4"). Barrels are 17.0 mm (16 gauge). The five stamps are not proofhouse, but an indication of grade from the gunmaker. Believe they are backward "F's" with capital "D" uniting them.

But, I do not know that the rhombus on the right is that has the letters S over a small capital R. Grateful for assistance.

Regards, Tim

And not one darn picture of a Darne!!!

Gun appears to be a type T number 34 grade. Can't help with the S over R stamp-I think the AE might have to do with the exposition in 1914, but, I don't have any hard info as to that.

Best,
Ted

About all that I can add is that the R under a crown is smokeless powder reproof since 1960.

Hi Tim,
Well, this is the definitive proof that Jallas indeed succeeded to F Darne.
I don't know either what the Rhombus is about except that it is a tradesman's mark and not an official proof mark.
The 5 grade stamps are double FDs which no doubt are for Francisque Darne. There is also a half erased tradesman mark on the lump which seems to be Gxxet. The AE is also unknown.
The barrels seem to be monoblocked. I thought Francisque did not do that, but Jallas did.
Best regards,
WC-

Thanks, All. Good catch on the lump, WC, not sure what that's about. The gun was rebarreled at Ets. Darne last July and reproofed in August 2012. Should have asked for a superior reproof in order to get stamps on the barrels as the French proofhouse does not stamp the barrels, except for gauge, on an ordinary reproof...

Regards, Tim

Thats not a rebarrel, Tim. Its a sleeve. Francisque Darnes ARE NOT mono bloc guns. One never should say never on sliders, but, I'm pretty sure we would have seen a mono bloc F. Darne by now, and we haven't.

Best,
Ted

Looks like you have covered your bases over on the Gournet forum. It's not the fastest moving forum, but Geoffroy seems to get to all questions eventually.

Good catch Ted, the barrels were sleeved, that explains the monoblock part.
The 16.0 looked like a new marking, but I thought it was just a regular reproof.
WC-

Note the braze lines are quite visable in the picture on eith side of the under lug where the lower part was put in. Since it wasn't built as a monoblock, it doesn't have one now.
Monoblocks have the entire breech end of the barrels, including lugs etc all machined from "ONE" (Mono) piece of steel.
A breech section with joints in it ain't Mono.

You wouldn't believe the amount of people who should know better that simply don't get that.

Best,
Ted