Hey all, I just picked up another double. This time The A.J. Aubrey made by Meridan. Neat (although not so little) gun.

Anyhow, it just arrived and there is the slightest bit of movement between barrels and receiver with the gun closed. I have not tried, but I imagine the resulting gap is too small for a standard piece of paper... yet.... there is movement.

So, whats the answer? How tight it tight? How loose is loose? When do you worry about it and how difficult is the fix?

Thanks,
Shane

Just past the 20 year 'Binding Guarantee'



Any 100 year old gun needs to be evaluated by a double gun specialist smith Shane. Take it over to Champlin Arms in Enid and let them decide.

More Aubrey infro
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/17474742

I had intended on taking it to them indeed. And had even contemplated restoring the finishes on the metal which are all but gone. But I won't be able to get it to them before the three day evaluation period is up.

How fast are they able to look at things? I have never been over there, but have sent people there way and have chatted with them here at the show in April and Nov. Is it a shop where if I drove it over I could stop in and get a short answer? Or a shop where it goes in a gun rack for a week.

Also... how in the world do I get the smoke smell off of it? Ha! Blech.... Smells like a dive bar with no vents. I assume a good cleaning and maybe some time on the back porch will air it out. It's done well with camera gear I have bought in the past.

I use lemon pledge
Give it a try
Spray a soft rag
Wipe the gun down
Mike

See "Mechanical Evaluation"
http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx?tabid=28

Done right...and done in a week...are words that do not go together in the alternate dimension of gunsmith space and time Shane. Then again our fingers and eyes are usually needed for something important.

Clean up ideas
http://www.lcsmith.org/faq/cleangun2.html

Drew, of course I don't need the work done in a week, that would be absurd now wouldn't it... But a quick inspection on the issue of the rejoining is what I would be looking for. I have dealt with smiths who are able to do that and those who aren't. But in a world of internet/interstate gun sales and 3-7 day inspection periods. It seems a reasonable thing to ask.

If you can't get a piece of paper into the gap, it is no big deal.

As for restoring it... In all honesty, unless this Meriden is a 20ga with ejectors and custom engraving, forget it. The run of the mill Aubrey / Meriden is simply not worth the money. You would be better off waiting for a high condition gun to come along.

Pete

Hey Pete, that was my guesstimation. After giving it a try here in the office, with the forearm off, a sheet of 20# paper fits very tightly in the gap. That would make it about .004". My Fox that I shoot often has the slightest bit of movement, but you can't really tell what it is that's moving, only that it's not rock solid. This one is more pronounced and shaken vigorously does rattle a bit. The barrels seem solid and ring clear. If I keep it it will certainly be evaluated further.

Also, I use the term "restore" in pretty lose terms. I would like to see about having the metal refinished and doing the wood myself. Modest at the outside. I think I could even (taking my time and practicing on scrap knife steel from a friend) redo the barrels. But it's all a distant thought. I bought the gun for $450. So I'm not in it terribly deep at this point. Plus with the 32" barrels about the only thing I would do with it would be to shoot trap or possibly take it turkey hunting. Neither of which I do often.

Shane

It is most likely choked fuller and full. Measure the choke, perhaps pattern it. For a turkey gun, it will do fine.

Just wanted to make sure you were not digging a hole, but it sounds like you have thought it through.

Pete

Oh indeed, it's a gun that I bought beyond all reasonable use. I mean to say I mostly hunt quail and woodcock, so a 32" 12ga has little use. The chokes are indeed full and fuller measuring .685 and .690. I wonder about the turkey killing power of a load of #6s from a Polywad vintager, but I suppose there is only one way to find out!

It will look nice on the wall if nothing else and I've wanted to try my hand at re-etching damascus. It sounds as though with some patience that could be possible. I had originally thought about having the receiver CCH redone, but the more I see them, the more I think they look a little strange on an old gun, so it will likely stay in the white as it is now. The wood is in fine shape, but could use a new coat of finish... or not.

Shane, its funny but I bought an A J Aubrey with 32" steel barrels last summer. My son found it in a local auction out in Bozeman, MT. Mine was just a little off face also, and the rear trigger is a bear to pull. I shot ducks with it last Fall but I shimmed the hook with a layer of Scotch Tape which tightened it up enough to lose the rattle. Those long barrels just keep swinging when I shoot at a passing duck so I shoot it surprisingly well.

If yours rattles when you shake it, it is off face and will get worse unless you do something to tighten it back up. Tape's cheaper than gun-smithing, but certainly not a permanent fix. I'm undecided whether to spend the money fixing the trigger pull and rejointing, but I do like the gun. Low pressure 6s will most certainly take down a turkey unless you insist on 40+ yard shots...Geo

A gun is either on the face, or it's not. If you are going to shoot it, please fix it first. It will get worse with every shot from now on (even with temporary "fixes"), and a proper repair will get more expensive.

Take it down and put a piece of that paper in the hook, and put the barrels back on. If that tightens it up and the fore end goes back on, shoot it and see if you like it. As with the tape this isn't a permanent fix but it will let you know if you want to have it fixed correctly. Which fore end attachment does your have? If the barrels are good and you like the dynamics of it get it rejointed. MKII

Shane, just take it over to Champlin. JJ Perodeau is the gunsmith there and most likely will give you an on the spot opinion. Good folks!

That's what I like to hear Joe. I need to visit with them anyway about an article that one of the magazines I work for wants to do. I teach tomorrow night in Stillwater, so maybe I can get out of here early and swing by to see them.

Geo, thanks for the advice. I wonder... what loads were you shooting at ducks that were non-toxic and low pressure? I'm not a big duck hunter, but I might take it out for that just to harass my auto-loading black plastic shooting buddies. I don't ever insist on 40-yard shots for anything and certainly not for turkey. Maybe that's what I'll do.

Hey Mark, it's got the spring attached forearm. No lever. And the Model 34 engraving. The paper did indeed tighten it up as tight as can be. That helps anyhow. I'll order in a couple boxes of shells from PolyWad and take it to the club to help me decide.

Has anyone tried this method:

MidwayUSA Gunsmithing Tips

Looks like a perfect repair for the hobby enthusiast.

Craig

A few years back, there was an article in The Double Gun Journal about a well used Nitro Special, that was used primarily as a waterfowl gun, with heavy loads, after it's owner used a sheet of .004 brass to tighten the gun up-he didn't affix the brass permanently, he was just careful when cleaning or dismantling the gun. It was left, loose, on the hook. I seem to remember the gun was used, hard, for several decades in that form. I think he sold the gun to someone who used it the same way, using the same shim.
I'm wondering if the guy in the video used too heavy a piece of shim, as he had to file on the breech end of the barrels to get the gun to close? Wouldn't it make more sense to smoke the shim itself, and work it down that way? Also, why the desire to make the shim permanent?
I'm all for inexpensive fixes for inexpensive guns, and maybe there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Best,
Ted

I used Bismuth factory loads in the Aubrey last Fall. I don't think they are particularly low pressure. Remember my barrels are steel and extremely stout and my wood is all good. Personally I do not shoot anything but low pressure or black powder in my damascus guns. However most of them are 'bird guns' and don't have the massive barrels the 'fowlers' have. Make your own decision about your gun or if you'd rather, get advice from someone knowledgeable who can personnaly inspect your barrels...Geo

Aluminum beer can shims are the only way to go, you get a nice cold beer to drink obtaining the aluminum for the shim. The nice thing about aluminum is that it's soft enough that with a little encouragement the first few times you open and shut the gun it'll self-fit.
Steve

I think brass would do the same thing. I prefer my beer out of bottles, anyway.

Best,
Ted

If I recall correctly, the guy used old fashioned wheel bearing grease to hold it in place and he did use it for decades with new brass every so often.

Just buy a cheap blade type feeler gage set from your local auto parts or hardware store and you will have a lifetime supply of shim material in various thicknesses. As I remember Permatex makes some adhesives that work pretty good for a temporary fix or you can solder the shim in place if you want something more pertinent.

Feeler gage set are ground and hardened-they will tend to split when heated or used to conform to a hook. Don't ask me how I know this.
Shim stock is soft, and is just that-for shimming.

Best,
Ted

I agree with Ted. I bought this kit many years ago from Brownell's. Cuts with a common pair of scissors.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-...ck-prod589.aspx

SRH

I love the way this conversation turned! ha! It's a great thing the internet isn't it? Opinions and solutions from expensive to free... just choose the one you like best.

I've decided to keep the gun regardless and it will go to Champlain today to have the once over. Unless I am missing something, it should be fine. Now just to try and figure out what to shoot with it!

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I'll post some photos eventually.

The gun owners perennial problem of putting a guns action back on the face or just removing that small amount of movement between the breach face and the barrels. Now I have found that there is really only one cat but a thousand ways of skinning it, some ways can cost a considerable amount of money and others are virtually free. Below are two photographs of a barrel from a gun in my “Keep me Collection” the gun is a sxs 12 bore black powder with Damascus barrels built by a good maker in about 1870 and not exposed to high barrel pressures being black powder only.
Now if you look closely at the area next to the barrel hook there is a curved punch mark I have put some chalk in one of them to make it easier to be seen. Now these punch marks are extremely deep because the lump material is a rather soft Iron. Now the act of swaging each side of the hook with a curved punch has in consequence extended the metal between the barrel hook and the hinge pin bringing the barrels back on face. Total cost of repair ZERO!!!!!
As I have never subjected the gun to a great deal of use I have not seen fit to do any thing about this hundred plus a year old adjustment, is it butchery or a mistaken example of a cheap gun cheap repair. Well you know the saying if it aint broke don’t fix it, because for all intents and purposes it is tight on the face and shoots exceedingly well. And finally this is not a recommendation how to make good a gun that is off the face it is just another way of skinning that cat.

I have and old Crescent that's a tad loose. A new dollar bill will just fit between the barrels and breech. Internet search came up with a thickness of .0043" for US currency, a soda can is .0038", made a shim from a Coke can last evening... just a smidge loose. My place of employment has a machine shop, an email to the shop foreman has a small .005 shim stock in the interoffice mail as I type this.
Craig

Interoffice mail delivered a piece of .005 shim stock just in time to take home, probably 3" x 6". Cut a strip 3/8" wide, used a 3/8" drill bit to bend and had the gun shimmed in about 3 minutes.
Used a dab of grease to stick it to the hinge pin, tightened it up very nicely.
Anyone need a small strip of .005 shim I'll gladly share send me a PM.
CraigF

Is the shim brass? You should have snapped a few photos for the cognoscenti to get their panties all knotted up over.
I find it interesting that folks will pay for a repair job on a low level, beater, American machine made gun that is worth 4-5 times what the gun is.
Good work on the Cresent. Enjoy.

Best,
Ted

That gun appears to have been "punched" with a tool that was specifically made for the task. I'd venture it could have been done by an actual gunmaker in the days prior to WW1, before the use of smokeless powder became common. If this was the case, the repair may not have been "free" but, it was likely low cost.
I've seen a very less elegant solution applied to many old doubles here in the states, that involved a tool no more complex than a sharp punch.
Times change. Methods of repair improve and students involved in the study of repair are taught different techniques through the years. I was told that the punch method of repair to a loose double was a perfectly accepted repair method early in the last century, and the number of guns seen put back on face with it seems to bear this out. I would hasten to add, that I don't buy those guns, today.
The Colorado School of Trades dabbled in the teaching of case restoration with a torch, at one time-they don't, any longer.

Best,
Ted