I have a potential client with what I find to be an odd request, a custom O/U with a steel frame, light in weight and a 12 bore of course. I'm looking at my options. What do you folks say?

My prewar Browning Lightning weighs 6 pounds, 8 ounces with ribless 26" barrels. If you could find one with longer barrels and solder on Boss short ribs, it would be as nice a light 12 as you could find.

I did not know they came that light, Thanks! something to look into....

Verney Carron . Just had one through my hands and they are light in weight ,did not fire it so I don't know how much it kicked .Not sure what you mean by "custom" O/U though .

In the 1970's I bought my wife a Breda O/U 12ga that was extremely light yet steel framed, double trigger, no rib, pretty sure it was real close to 6# and it would leave her face black and blue even with light loads. I sold it off and got her an Ithaca Ultra-Featherwight English 20ga. It felt about the same weight, fit her better and was much kinder to her, she killed alot of birds with it. Her trap and skeet guns were 870's she shot doubles trap and skeet with them and there are few that could work a pump like her, I couldn't. I'd hear coments like "I didn't even see the slide move".

Now if you could get him into a SxS you could get under 6# pretty easy.

There is always the Bretton but I think they had an alloy frame.

I have a French retailed , Belgian made, 12 bore over under with 27 3/4" barrels, solid rib, and a fairly long pull. Weight 6 1/2 pounds. Also has three piece forend.

I had a Merkel 203 OU 12 ga. that weighed 6lb. 10oz (ST, PG, solid rib, 28" barrels). I think it will be hard to find an 12 ga. OU with a steel receiver much lighter than that.

Chapuis lists their 12 ga. OUs (vent rib) as around 6.5 lbs - not sure if their receivers are all steel, though.

Steve, I’m with Bill…. and would second the Superposed lightning, also might look into an older Ase series Beretta….or maybe even a Rugger red label, but the last one might be a bit too heavy

Best,

CJ

I would bet on a Breda as well. Too bad the 12 gauge Beretta BLs weren't as light as the 20s. I have one with lighter wood in 20ga that's 5lbs 10oz. The 12's I've seen have all been over a pound heavier.

Belgian Browning Superposed Superlight. I have two solid rib early ones and two later vent rib models. All 12 ga. Oddly enough, one of the SR guns and one of the VR guns weigh exactly the same: 6 lbs 7.8 oz. Even stranger is the fact that the other SR and VR guns also both weight exactly the same: 6 lbs 10.8 oz. Barrel weight accounts for most of the difference in both cases. I find that at these weights recoil is no problem while hunting using 1 1/4oz pigeon loads or similar loads and with light 1oz loads a round of SC is not punishing to me at all. My five foot two wife hunts primarily with "her" Superlight shooting the same ammo and never notices the recoil. YMMV

Steve, the postwar Browning Superlight is rare and expensive in 28" and has little character. However, the prewar Lightning ribless gun is occasionally found in 28" or 30". A friend had a 30" prewar ribless Lightning with the Airplane sight, but I think it has disappeared in the stream of commerce. What barrel length does your customer prefer?

Uh, I don't think "rare" is appropriate. True Superlights were first made in 1967 as far as I know and are still available. Check the new prices and they will make you faint. Granted, 28 inchers are not common as nearly all were 26 3/8 inch barrels. They do have a rather nicely rounded bottom frame versus the normal browning frame. Again, YMMV

My standard Merkel 200E 12g is 6.56 pounds (2975 grams). It's easy to carry in the fields all day.

With kind regards,
Jani

Thanks for all the feedback. I've learned a lot today. More to come hopefully.

My client is not a tall man and would prefer a gun with shorter barrels. We are looking toward 26" barrels at the moment.

I was just thinking the German O/U can fit the bill at a reasonable cost without the stubby barrels, but....custom it is, and that could cover a lot of territory.

In that light of a gun it is easy to overpower the gun and longer barrels work out suprisingly well. My Darne is 5 lb 15 oz (all steel 12ga) and I'm 5'7" and it handles well with 29" barrels 13 1/2" LOP.

I lean towards longer barrels myself, but short is what the client wants.....

Don't know if they made 12s, but Damon Petrik made some very light o/u 20-bores. For something a bit easier to find, Caeser Guerini makes some very light O/Us as well. I have a friend that has a 26-inch barreled 12 bore that weighs 6lbs even.

the Guerini's have an alloy frame. Looking into the V-C guns right now and have some feelers out on some Italian guns.

It is an odd request.

Just ignore all the advancement in new design and modern metals, and insist on steel where steel is no longer strictly required.

Q: Would anyone actually prefer a Belgian Browning "steel" gun over a modern alloy gun with hardened steel inserts at the stress points? Anybody?

Composite metal guns are no longer experimental.

Oskar a page or so back said "There is always the Bretton but I think they had an alloy frame."

I have one of the "Deluxe Baby Brettons" - 20 gauge, that is so light I suspect very few people can shoot it well. Roger Barlow wrote about the Brettons in a couple of the early Gun Digest books. Since I was so taken with his Barlow Simca Special sports cars, I had to have one of the shotguns he loved. Now, having it in hand, I suspect his infatuation had something to do with his suffering with ALS, thus the light weight was a requirement for him.

The Beretta BL2-S would be the gun I would try & find for your project. They were quite light to begin with and could easily be customized to your client's need's. The speed trigger is remarkably easy to get used to and it is indeed fast to use afield w/plenty of room for a gloved finger. I still enjoy carrying one afield some days when the walking is rough and the opportunity for shots at game are few.

I think Beretta made a plain jane o/u that was really lite.

I would think the Beretta guns that preceeded the BL series would fit the bill. Most of the Silver Snipes had 26" barrels, and some came with a little stub rib at the monoblock and a ramp for the bead that was lighter than a full rib.
There was just a write up on the early Beretta production guns in The Double Gun Journal, and it was noted that if the 'snipes had a fault, it was that they were too light. I own a 12 with 26" tubes that can't be but 6 1/2 lbs, although it does have a ventilated rib.
I've always felt the same way about the 20 gauge ASELs, also. Just too light.

Best,
Ted

Here's a 686 I'm presently modifying. I think it will end up somewhere around 6 5/8 pounds.

SKB,

I second the thoughts on Merkel 200E - steel and light weight, but am not sure if you can get it with 26" barrels.

If a Beretta 686 can be less that 7 lbs, I think you can get the S56,7,8 series for lighter than that. If I remember correctly the 68X series is really a beefed up version of the S5X series. The S56,7,8 were not so popular with the US because they were too light for the American market. Beretta beefed up the action and gave it a little more weight - and marketed it to the US as a super durable gun. Although it's essentially the same gun as the S5X, the 68X series is extremely popular in the US. So, I would think you could get a lighter gun going to the S56,7,8.

Dave Erickson, how did you remove the Beretta rib and how were the sub ribs facricated? Did you weigh the barrels before and after? I specified the Boss rib option on my new CSMC Inverness and I expect it to be pretty light. If it is not light enough, I will start drilling on the stock.

There is a bretton steel frame 12 ga they have screw in chokes. the barrels are on threaded rails that jack away from the frame.They weighted at 5lbs?(2.2 kilos). I may have spelled the name wrong.