Cleaning up the shop I found a couple of Winchester 32 ga shells I forgot I had. Head stamp says Winchester No 32 14 m/m. They are paper hulls #6 shot. I guess my questions are when did Winchester load 32 ga and are they rare?

Can't be too rare. One just like them is standing in my shell collection. Does it say "W.R.A. New No. 4" on the primer?

UMC began offering the 14 mm shotshells along with the 12 mm/.410-bore shells in 1915 --



I'd imagine Winchester began offering them about the same time.

From the 1923 Remington Arms Co., Inc. catalogue --



From the current SoldUSA auction --

http://www.soldusa.com/rainworx/detail.asp?id=53856

What gauge is an 18 mm shotshell?

"IF" you are speaking of true diameter then 18mm = .709". 13 gauge = .710", close enough I'd say 13 gauge.
Note that neither the 14mm or 12mm are true sizes for 32 gauge or .410 but are simply "Names". 14mm = .551" (28ga = .550) while a 32 gauge is .526".
12mm = .472" with a .410 being of course .410", not a gauge at all. There have been as I recall some actual 18 gauge guns made whose bores would be a nominal .637"

UMC loaded a batch of 18 gauge shells for John Browning, ca1905. These were supposedly for his work on a prototype of the autoloading shotgun. There is also a Parker double that was made in 18 gauge.

To a shell collector, they can be worth a good amount. The last one I sold went for a good price. I think only 2 American manufacturers made a 32g shell. It is still a popular gauge in Europe. It is basically their equal to our .410

Wonder what those 2" .410 shells with #1 shot would have been used for???

Squirrel and Rabbit. One pellet will kill'em or at least put'em on the ground and you do not get a stew full of lead shots...Geo

If I'm not mistaken, that 18 gauge Parker was actually a 20 gauge DHE gun with an extra set of 18 gauge barrels. That gun was featured in the DGJ many years ago, and I was priviledged to see and handle it personally several years ago at a gun shop in North Carolina. The 20-gauge barrels have disappeared; but with the gun the owner had one full box of original ammo, and two loose 18-gauge shells (were the gun mine, those two loose rounds would have been empty hulls!). Other than bore size, there was nothing remarkable about this Parker as regards special features or cosmetic appearances; was a very plain DHE overall.

Miller, I always read your posts, like I do for several others. I bought a double hammer gun in ITALY. It was described as an 18mm gun. My thought , since it was an 1880 gun, what cartridge was it really for ? Seeing the American cartridges described in millimeters made me think there was an obvious answer.

Daryl;
To be totally honest here I really don't know. As I said mathematically 18mm calculates to a 13ga. I do not know if they produced a gun with a misnomer of 18mm similar to the 14mm & 12mm for the 32 & 410 or not. It could of course simply be a 12ga with an undersize bore. Nominal bore for the 12 in metric is 18.5mm.
I have an old Birmingham proofed W Richards (Neither Wesley or William) hammer gun with 12ga chambers & the bores are marked 14. In metrics it would thus be somewhere between 17.6mm & 18mm.

Yeah, George, I hear ya..always used 4s when rabbit hunting with a .410 just for that reason (couldn't get anything bigger and didn't handload .410s then). And the fewer, larger shot are much easier to track and and find in the meat. But I wonder if they REALLY sold many .410 1s....

Now that I think of it, I'm not sure I've ever SEEN a #1 shot, loaded or not!

just looked in an old Eley catalogue from the late 50's and it lists the 2 1/2" .410 with AAA shot and Sperical Ball. I do have a couple of the ball cartridges in my collection. I bet the AAA gave lousy patterns! Lagopus.....

For German proofed 12ga guns, it is very common to see them marked for 12 ga chamber and 13 ga bore. In fact, while I haven't done a study, my impression is that this is more common than 12ga/12ga.
Mike

The 32ga: carries like a 410, hits like a 28?

I was in Franklin Sports (Athens, GA) a couple of months ago scrounging thru a box of odd discounted ammo when Mark (the proprietor's son) told me he had a file cabinet full of odd ammo (read partial boxes) in the back room; and if I was interested, I could ramble thru his stash to see if there was anything there I wanted. I said why not and proceeded thusly. About half-way thru my investigaion, Mark returned and asked if I was finding what I needed to which I responded NO; as I was really hoping to find some 14 gauge shotgun shells. And to that comment Mark replied; well I don't any 14 gauge stuff; but I got this old gun here you might be interested in, whereupon he reached up to the rack to pulled down an ugly old H & R single-shot. So Mark sez, this here is something I can't put on the showroom floor 'cause all the accessories would disappear. This here is a 32 gauge dart gun. I've got the adapter that shoots .22 power loads and the tranquilizer dart that originally came with the gun; and if you want 32 gauge shells, I've got plently and I'll make you a deal. So I sez, while I don't foresee that I'll be tranquilin' no bears anytime soon, the prospects of having a 32 gauge pest popper is sorta' interetin'; whatcha' gotta have on a rig like that? Well, he sez, you caught me in the right mood; for you Friend, $100 out the door. Long story short, I didn't see how I could go wrong at that price; so I bought the gun and two boxes of 32 gauge #8's. I then take my new toy home only to learn that these Fiochi shells are about 3/8" too long for the chamber. So in frustration, I forced the gun shut (in a safe direction of course) with a shell in the chamber just to make sure I hadn't been shot a line about bore size; well the gun opened OK afterwards, but the stuck shell would not extract. So I got my cleaning rod, bumped the shell from chamber; and basically what I had was a perfect chamber cast of the forcing cone. I then cleaned the crud from the bore and discovered the barrel on this gun was rifled. I still like the idea of a 32 gauge pest gun; but for the time being this gun is in my project pile as I don't know if it would be possible to appropriately lengthen the chamber (32 gauge reamers probably not very common?), and I'm not sure if it would be a good idea to mess with the chamber on this gun anyway? Just one more chapter in Tom's block-buster best selling book, "How to Earn Your PhD in Gun Collecting Thru Your Wallet".

topgun,
It's too bad you lost your $100.I'll give you your money back and even pay the shipping.
Mike