THIS walked in the door the other day for a dent to be removed. No makers marks at all. Only markings are KRUPP steel on the barrels. I have never seen anything like it. There is a horn lever under the barrels that acts as the fore end. Moving the lever to the left allows the barrels to move forward and drop down to load. Closing the lever returns the barrels and cocks the action. The "bow tie" on top of the action is the safety and a sight. If it points down the axis it is in safe, if it is parallel to the action it is in fire. 100% coin relieved, not engraved. The under lever, trigger guard, and butt plate all are made from horn. Also there is a trap door storage compartment in the toe of the stock. There are 4 spaces. Two for 16 gauge shot shells, and two more for rifle shells. Too bad the other set of barrels are missing! If any of you have any ideas as to who made this I welcome any resources. I don't know how to post photos here so I will add a link to a discussion and pics on another web forum
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/768011-while-we-visiting-my-bench.html
do a web search for "Collath".
It was originally a cape and in 1935 LK(Louis Kelber) of Suhl made a new 16 bore tubeset and it wears the JY stamp that Günter & I have been chasing. The original set probably was a paring of a pattern welded tube and a cast tube. Note the Crown over R on the frame.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
I knew this was the place for answers. So are you saying it has been re barreled? What do the numbers under the barrels on the fore end represent? Was this a two barrel set. one 16 ga and one for rifle.? Any ideas on value? It's a customers gun and he wants to properly insure it.
Those numbers are Collath serial number(I'd guess mid 1890s production) and Calibre #5(Collath's nomenclature) being 11.15X60 - possibly a DR, I cannot say. Yes, in the late 1930s a fluid steel tubeset was made for it.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
I believe the caliber#5 is the shot caliber, Collath having their own system( if I remember correctly, 16ga is the only one that matches,closely, the Collath system).Their own rifle cartridges used the common bullet dia, case length system. The 11.15x60(the R not marked)was the Gvt.rifle caliber, not one of theirs.
Mike
May be Ford, but let me post a few things:
0 = 10 gauge
1 = 12 gauge
3 = 14 gauge
4 = 16 gauge
5 = 18 gauge
6 = 20 gauge
7 = 24 gauge
8 = 28 gauge
C 1 = 9.3X82
C 2 =
C 3 = 8X72 Brenneke
C 4 = 8M. - Mod.88
I'll look for others and the calibres may change over time?
Have to get the order?
8.15 X 461/2 Normal
8,1 x 72 Collath
9,3 X 65
9,3 X 72
9,3 x 80
9,3 x 82
11 x 65
Advert showing Collath 1 gauge & 4 gauge in his gauge scheme.
Lancaster's contribution from NE
http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=193971&page=3Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Ford:
There may be some German numerics that I am unaware of, but I read it:
6751 C colon 5 equals 11,15 x 60. So on the face value without any unknown numerics I'd say C5 = 11,15 X 60?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Ford:
Empirical data suggests that if it were chambered in a stardard calibre the bore was followed by a C. If the Collath sporting weapon experienced proof at the Collath proof facility utilizing the Collath numbering scheme, it is possible that number may follow the C.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Looks like T-C was sourcing Liege for their pattern welded tubes before he started rolling their own.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Indeed, when he was proofing with his own numbering scheme, C1 was his 1 bore.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
