I recently purchased a Grant game scene engraved shotgun. The gun is about 110 yrs old. A taxidermist I showed this gun to told me some of the engraved birds are 'Black Game'. I've never heard of this bird. Are they still present in Europe and if so are they are they still hunted?

The Black Grouse is called in German "Birkhahn" and is still hunted in Germany and Austria. By the way, there is a nice Whisky Label "Black Grouse".



Kind Regards,
Gunwolf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Grouse


Lots of pictures available in the External Links in the above address.

Would like to see some pictures of the Black Grouse Gun...!

Gunwolf

I have seen then in highland Scotland (near Blair Atholl). They are quite scarce now and (in my opinion) should not be shot.

They are seen on the lower ground and the edges of woodland. Whenever I have shot where there is a possibility of seeing them, we have always been asked (and always agreed) not to shoot them.

I'd love to post photos but I'm a clown with this photobucket/computer. Got the job done once but sorta stumbled into it. If someone would allow me to email a few photos and post them for me that would be great. Skeetx did that for me once. The engraving on this gun is very cool IMO.

Of course I will do.

wvbbonn@t-online.de

Best,
Gunwolf

I have shot one in Austria some years ago and it was a great moment. You have to leave during the night climbing up the mountains(I was near to my end as we reached), waiting after some hours of climbing for the birds coming with the first light. If there is the right bird (old enough!) you may shoot him with a small bore rifle (.22 Hornet) and you have to hit the small bird well, otherwise you may find only some feathers......
I've got mine and it was a great experience which I will remember till the end of my hunting life. Of course usually you shoot only one or two in your life.

If you ever will have the chance to shoot one in the alps, take it!!!

Best Regards,
Gunwolf

Nice Gun!

The pictures :

In the left sidelock seems to be two birds whose could be Black Grouses, maybe female. The others with the dog are woodcoks and one eagle in fences. By the way, Black Grouse is very common here in Finland.

Interesting gun. I believe I owned it for a few years. Made for an American market , as I recall.

Small world, Daryl. What makes you think it was made for the American market? POW grip? The gun has 28" barrels, in proof with 2 5/8" chambers, a hidden cross bolt top lever mechanism and chopper lump barrels. The engraving seems English and not American to me?? The birds on the fences appear to be falcons and not eagles as far as I can tell.

I have seen this gun before. Very unusual engraving for a Grant.

Buzz, as I recall the gun records said it was sent to an American . I cannot remember if I got the records or the previous owner did. It is unlike the general Grant engraving, of course. -------------Later, I found that it was completed on July 15,1904, for F. C. Fowler Esq., USA. Described as having "special inlay engraving" top lever with cross bolt, half pistol grip stock, 12 bore, 28" barrels, and 2 5/8" chambers. Sold for 71-13-00 pounds, without the case.

In 1970 it was in the possession of H.G. Thatcher of the USA and in 1992 there was an inquiry from a prospective purchaser for 74xx. All of the info was courtesy of Douglas Tate.

Interesting Daryl. Thx for your input. I recently sent an inquiry to Atkin, Grant and Lang. Haven't heard back. The other interesting thing with this gun is it has choppers. I've been told most Grant's had dovetailed barrels as original. I'm not sure if that is a true statement, but this gun clearly has chopper lumps.

Well, Mr. Fowler certainly knew what he wanted when he ordered it. I have seen one other Grant with deviations sort of similar to this. If one did not see the name on the gun, I don't think anyone would guess Grant. On a closer comparison to "standard Grants" of the period the action looks the same. One thinks of those Grants as stocked to the fences, but in reality they were not. I have not checked any catalogs, but I would guess a gun costing 71 pounds in 1904 was pretty much top of the line. I think the chamber length was a hint of an American order.

An added thought, I always thought the two birds on the left lockplate must be grouse, with one dancing and the other watching as they do. I cannot imagine someone engraving a bird being shot on the ground.

Gunwolf,
You seem to have described hunting an Auerhahn rather than Birkhan.I'm not sure about Austria, but in Germany Auerhahn were usually hunted like you described(when they could still be hunted) and Birkhahn were usually hunted on the ground, during their bodenbalz.If close enough they are shot with a shotgun;with a rifle only if they can't be called closer( hence the blackcock on a shotgun).If its different in Austria, disregard my comment.
Mike

Mike, beliebe me, it was a Birkhahn... ;-)
But you are correct with The Bodenbalz!
In my case, the Professional Hunter who guided me, decided to take the
Hornet because of the distance....
Both, Auerhahn and Birkhahn can be hunted with Gun or Rifle.
Auerhahn is more complecated because you have to "jump" "anspringen" to the big bird as he is singing a special part of his "Song" and does not hear anything!
As with Birkhahn you have to be on the Balzplatz in time. This places are on the tree frontier (?) and often you have to cross snow covered mountain pines because it's only allowed to shoot Black Grouse only in May for 15 days.
In former times it was possible to hunt them on the plains, especially Moor. That was nice too but of course not at all exhausting....

Nevertheless, you have deep knowledges of the german kind of hunting!

Best Regards,
Wolfgang

Over here, black grouse is one of the classic quarry for hunting over bird dogs.

That is a very different Grant. I am not sure what to think of it.

I never saw any birkhahn in Germany, but did manage to see some auerhahn. Surprising how large they are.

Schwarzwild are boar are they not? I never heard auerhahn or any bird called black game. Or did I miss something??

Texasquailguy, think you are right. Here in Germany Schwarwild=black game= wild boar. Don't know, how it's like in Great Britain...?

Indeed Auerhahn is very impressive. Birkhahn is much smaller.

Best Regards,
Gunwolf

Gunwolf,
I stand corrected. My experience with these birds is very limited.After I was there a year, Germany prohibited hunting Auerhahn and I never was lucky enough to "draw" a permit for a Birkhahn.
Texasquailguy,
The pigs are "Black game" translated from German, but "Black Cock" or "Black Grouse" is the English name, not translated from German.
Mike

What a pity! I had to become 56 years old to get the chance...and it was great!
For me hunting in the mountains/Alps is second to none because of the wonderful impressions of an overwhelming landscape and nature.

Gunwolf

Gunwolf, you should come to Finland and buy a license to hunt those black birds.

Buzz - that is an interesting gun. What is the screw/pin immediately behind the fences - obviously not to hold the lockplate on or for interceptor sears. Is it related to the cross-bolt?

No, it has nothing to do with cross bolt. That screw is present on another Grant I own which lacks the cross bolt mechanism. None of these old Grants are stocked to the fences and some have that screw. I'm guessing, but I think that screw may allow easy access to the strikers. I've wondered the same but I'm only guessing.

Archibald Thorburn "Blackcock 1900"

I think your guess is about right. I have a similar William Powell and (from memory) that screw holds the strikers captive. Disc set strikers are not fitted in the standing breach - and the strikers are removed by first removing the lock plate, then removing that screw and withdrawing the striker backwards into the lock aperture.

Do NOT try typing 'Black Cock' into Google!

Igorrock, I guess it would be a very nice experience. But I think in Finland it is more like hunting partridge with dogs...??? And there are a lot of Black Grouse?!

Best Regards,
Gunwolf

Drew Hause,

very nice picture!

This is my first and only Birkhahn:




Best Regards,
Gunwolf

I believe that Aurhaun and Capercaillie are the same bird and are much larger than the Black Grouse.

Geno, RIP, showed some footage of him hunting Capercaillie and of one he bagged.

Correct!

Gunwolf

George William Horlor (1849-1890) "The Day's Bag"

So Igorrock: I went to your website/blog and was pretty lost since I can't read your language, but the pics were neat. I really liked your Damascus knife. So Igorrock and Gunwolf, is the Black Grouse good to eat?? White meat or dark meat? I'm guessing a dark meat. Here in the United States we have Ruffed Grouse which has a white, delicious meat and we have sharp tailed grouse which are a darker meat. They are good too but not as tasty as the Ruffed, at least for me. We have a few other Grouse as well, such as the Blue Grouse plus some others. BTW Drew, your old pictures are awesome!

Partridge is very very seldom here, lives in very small area. It´s living enviroments, as you know, are mostly fields. Black Grouse lives in forests and wetlands and it´s the most common bag in Finland. There in forest lives Hazel Grouse too, which is my personal favourite.

Thanks, next time you could read them better when using GOOGLE Translator (http://translate.google.com/).

Both Black Grouse and Capercaillie have darker meat, IMO they are both delicious if you just could spice and cook them right way.

Igorrock: I googled your Hazel Grouse. What a beautiful bird. I see they are plentiful and their range is pretty much most of Northern Europe. They appear similar to our Ruffed Grouse. Are they a white meat? When they flush do they make a lot of noise? Do they drum on logs for mating ritual and to establish their territory? I would love to see one as well as the Black Grouse someday!

To those interested in this thread I would highly recommend "The Grouse of the World", by Paul A. Johnsgard, Univ. of Nebraska Press. He is the expert on the grouse family and the science is very readable.

I, for one am going to order 'The Grouse of the World'. I tried the google translate. What a fabulous tool. Thx for that info Igoorock! BTW it appears you are quite the craftsman. Interesting custom things that you make.

Hazel Grouse is small bird with very delicious white meat. When they flush the sound is short and sharp "brrr", sound comes from fast moving small wings. Normaly they (mostly male) just whistle "peeeeep, peeep, pipipipi" but sometimes when very nervous they could sound quite same like childrens rattle use to do. They mostly live areas where is many dense old spruces and sometimes between them alders and asps. They mainly hunted with imitating the male with a special kind of whistle.

... and they don't stay under a point.