To those of you out there who load their own black powder shotshells. Do you prefer a cooler or hotter primer?

Makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. Use anything that will light the stuff. Seriously.

Primers are the last item on my list of concerns.

I have used Winchester 209s in both plastic and paper shells. There are lessons to be learned. Primers were not the problem. Basically, blackpowder is hard on stuff. Paper hulls burn through in a load or two. Plastic, on the other hand, doesn't burn through - it just melts. Don't use anything plastic around blackpowder.

The tougher element is wads and lubes. I'm still trying stuff. There are a lot of variables that include the span of time between loading and shooting, and how much shooting is done and over how many hours. Do a web search, find some homemade concoction you think you can whip up in or around the house without getting thrown out, and just wade in.

Oh, primers. I forgot the thread. Nowadays I use some righteous brass hulls powered by pistol primers. Works great.

What ever primer(s) you happen to have will work.


When I was still shooting quite a lot of BP Substitute in shotshells,,I found that the Remington black promo hull (Gun Club??) won't melt when using them.
At least they didn't then,,maybe they've changed plastics since.
Any other plastic shotshell hull I tried melted and made a mess including the Remington Green plastic hulls.

I never tried it with real BP to see if it can stand up to it and not melt when fired with it, but it may be worth a few rounds to see.
They are usually for the picking around the skeet and clays courses.

They would take 3 or 4 loadings before the inside of the mouth of the case was just burnt and charred for lack of a better description and I'd pitch 'em at that point.

Federal paper cases would last 2 loadings usually before pin-holes would appear just above the brass.
Then I ran out of Federal paper cases anyway and looked for cheap substitute and found the Remington case.

I never found a plastic wad that wouldn't melt using one of the sub BPs. It was always card and fiber wads. I'd find them at gunshows usually. Old stocks of Federal and Winchester for the most part and generally cheap.

I prefer the cheapo federal target load hulls with the paper base wad, they tend to hold up pretty well. I haven't had any issues with them melting, but I still only use them for one loading. I can get hundreds of them from the club I shoot at for free, and they take a roll crimp pretty well. I've used CCI 209s and 209M's, both with great results. Echoing previous responses, black is pretty easy to ignite, and as long as it works, it'll go bang.

In response to Kutter, if you put a card wad under the plastic shot cup, it eliminates the melting problem.

Yes, good point. That'll keep the plastic wad from feeling most all the heat of the BP ignition and avoid it melting down on you.
But I was trying to find a quick & simple(?) one piece plastic substitute wad instead of using any card or fibre at all.

A couple people said to try those plastic wads exclusively used in loading steel shot,,but I never did get around to it.
Maybe they were just guessing they'd work,,,maybe they were on to something,,don't know..

I was most likely looking for a solution to a non-existing problem as I had/have plenty of card & fibre wads and didn't load anywhere near the volume of shells w/them that I really needed anything to speed things along.
Finding a hull that didn't melt with the BP sub helped though.

Makes me want to dig the stuff out and load a couple boxes for skeet next week.
Excellent fun w/the Model 97.

Just a question, what are your preferred light loads for 12 gauge? I've been using 40 grains goex FFg and 7/8 oz 7 1/2 shot for targets and small game and they seem to be working fairly well.

Try 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 drams of BP. With black we don't talk in grains. Bulk load it using a measure marked off in drams.

Whatever scoop measure you use for the shot (7/8oz,,1 oz,,ect),,use that same scoop measure for the BP.
It's a volume for volume load and is a very good starting load for shot guns wether cartridge or muzzle loader.

One dram is 27.something grains.
Mr Internet will undoubtedly get you the precise answer,,27.3gr sounds about right.
Then you can weigh out your volume of powder the scoop holds in grains and convert drams,,if that means anything to you.
It's still one scoop of powder under one scoop of shot, with a card and a fiber wad(s) inbetween. An overshot wad depending on the loading.
Have fun..

I apologize about hijacking this thread.

I started out reloading smokeless for my newer LC Smith a few years ago. I have an older (1903 mfg. date) Ithaca Lewis with stub twist barrels, with a clean bill of health, and I've just recently started loading black for it. I'm currently using a lee adjustable shot dipper set to 7/8 oz. and crimping with a drill press roll crimper, over a nitro card, followed by a lubed fiber wad. I started out with square loads, and decided to back off on the powder because it was giving me holes in my patterns in my gun.

There are 16 drams to an ounce so 1 dram = 27.34375 grans (for practical purposes your 27.3 is close aplenty). Industry standard for the volume of 1 dram of Black Powder is .115 CuIn. Black powder weight can, & Will, vary a bit according to garanulation (# of F'S) & by lot, depending primarily upon the charcoal use. This is really of no great concern, the volume measures are fine. Generally speaking a 1 oz shot measure will hold about 2½ (68grs) drams of black. You can multiply the wt of your shot dipper by that 2½ to get an approximate volume for the desired load of other weights. Note that this is a Volume to Volume or Equal Volume load. This has been a long standing practice for BP Shotguns & usually will give good results. This will in fact give loads very close to what was for years considered the "Field" loads for shotshells.
A "Square Load" for a shotgun is defined as one in which the column of shot in the Bore has a length equal to the bore diameter. This will in a 10 gauge give approximately a 1¼oz load & approximately 1 1/16oz in a 12 gauge. A Square load in any other gauge is virtually non-existant (Take note you 28ga fans, they don't shoot a Sq load by any defination).

I've shot black powder in Federal papers for many years now, 2-3/4 drams and 1 ounce shot loaded over felt wads/folded crimp for targets. I load the Federals with smokeless for 3 loadings, then black powder and discard the hull afterwards. One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is an insidious problem wherein black powder combustion fumes will find their way INSIDE the frame and will corrode the hammers, sears, springs etc. Anyone shooting black powder should chose a gun design that has limited openings into the frame (A H Fox is not one of them) and should also watch for pierced or leaky primers. In that case be sure to pull the stock shortly after shooting and douche things out. A S x S with a drawbolt stock makes that easy. Silvers

Last question:
WHY do you want to shoot black powder in breech loading guns when you can load smokeless to the same or less pressure??


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Cause the black powder goes "BAWHOOOM" and makes a lot of smoke!

Yeah, as to why real blackpowder, lighting off a load of the stuff is an event unto itself. The noise, the cloud, the filth, the dogs howling in the background - it's a very engaged way of shooting.

Another reason is Black powder will give you very close to identical ballistics whether in the Arctic or on the Equator.
A "Low Pressure" load of 7625 at low temps may leave you with a wad in the bore. Guess How I Know, it happened to me in a Duck Swamp ""ONCE"". I swore off 7625 for low pressure Forever that Day. The Factor which allows a smokeless powder to generate low pressures are inhibitors to the burn rate of the powder. These inhibitors also make it harder to ignite & they do not burn well except at higher pressures. Black Powder has a natural burn rate which is very suitable to shotguns, is easy to ignite & burns reliably & at about the same rate at virtually any pressure level. Burn rate of smokeless is very pressure sensitive. Best low pressure loads with smokeless are light loads with faster powders, which are not so heavily coated with inhibitors.

Other than the slight annoyance that black powder tends to be filthy, loud, hot, smoky, smelly, expensive, volatile, hard to ship, it has to be the greatest stuff for shotguns in the whole world.

[quote=Stallones]Last question:
WHY do you want to shoot black powder in breech loading guns when you can load smokeless to the same or less pressure??


Because I want to and (so far) I still can.

Good reasons, I shoot a lot in muzzle loaders

and enjoy all that also