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Posted By: Jawjadawg What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/11/14 01:45 AM
F/F, F/M, M/IC, SK/SK

I have the chance to pick up a 20ga Sterlingworth with 26" barrels and F/F chokes. The gun is priced well, but I usually see shorter barrels having more open chokes. I guess you don't really know what the chokes mean until you actually pattern the gun, but I haven't seen many F/F barreled guns pattern well for upland brush hunting.

This has left me in a bit of a buying conundrum. Do spreader loads make a F/F gun more versatile and therefore desirable, or do you buy a gun for a specific purpose with the chokes you prefer? Closed chokes for turkey hunting and more open chokes for upland hunting, or do you even worry about it?
I just bought an Elsie 16 gauge that is full/ extra full.
Chokes that tight don 't bother me, if I don't like the way it patterns , I'll open it up.
Davide
I hunt upland birds over pointing dogs in the hills of Kansas using a Sterlingworth 16 gauge with 26 inch barrels choked Improved Cylinder and Modified. I have guns with longer barrels and tighter chokes but they only come out late in the season when the bird are few, wily and tough.
A very complicated question that depends considerably on the shooter's style and capabilities. A 26" 20 bore suggests a low swing effort gun with low swing stability. Tight (full) choke suggests long range shooting which generally requires high swing stability to achieve low aiming angle error. But, some shooters have the capability to shoot low swing effort guns well at long range. Shoot some 27 yard trap and see how you do. If you do well, then leaving it tightly choked is a reasonable option. Then, shoot a few rounds of skeet and see how well you do. That will tell you if you (you yourself) shoot well enough to use tight chokes at short range.

You might consider one open and leave one tight.

DDA
I don't understand the conundrum.

Starting with full & full, the chokes can become any combination one desires for another $150.

Yes, spreader loads could give the option of, say, a pair of IC chokes. Those would be helpful for clay targets, but I wouldn't use them for hunting.

Compared to all the other things to consider when buying a 26" Sterlingworth, the present chokes would be a non-issue for me.
What will you be using it for, Jd? That really qualifies the answer.

Full chokes in a 26" gun really is odd, but not a deal breaker, at all. I shoot several vintage doubles with tight chokes for hunting and clays. I tend to err on the side of tight as opposed to open. I use nothing more open than I/C for quail, here or in AZ, nothing more open than LM for doves (and I shoot, and eat, lots of doves), nothing more open than M for ducks and seldom anything more open than M for sporting clays. Spreaders will usually open up your pattern only one constriction, i.e., M to IC, or F to M, and are perfectly acceptable for hunting if they pattern well in your particular gun.

SRH
What will you be using it for, Jd? That really qualifies the answer.

Full chokes in a 26" gun really is odd, but not a deal breaker, at all. I shoot several vintage doubles with tight chokes for hunting and clays. I tend to err on the side of tight as opposed to open. I use nothing more open than I/C for quail, here or in AZ, nothing more open than LM for doves (and I shoot, and eat, lots of doves), nothing more open than M for ducks and seldom anything more open than M for sporting clays. Spreaders will usually open up your pattern only one constriction, i.e., M to IC, or F to M, and are perfectly acceptable for hunting if they pattern well in your particular gun.

SRH
Posted By: RCC Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/11/14 12:53 PM
Every time this topic comes up in one form or another, I think back to a day a few years ago.

A guest who joined us for a pheasant hunt brought several rather nice vintage guns with him. Being a sucker for a side lever, a Grant caught my eye.

He offered to let me shoot it and I accepted his invitation because he was trying to sell the gun.

I shot the gun well, even though the comb was too sharp for comfort against my face when I tapped the triggers. I shot her for four days, taking nine roosters, six huns and two sharpies with nearly the same number of shells.

I would have bought her if she hadn't beat my cheek bone up so bad.

She was choked none and quarter and those open barrels worked just find for birds over good dogs and spitting modern munitions.

The last entry in my journal concerning that hunt was MM might just be right on the money concerning chokes and present day ammunition.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/11/14 12:56 PM
I recently acquired a very nice early 20ga Savage SW (with Philly characteristics--smaller, pointed forend and PG cap), 28" barrels. Original constrictions were a tight Mod and well beyond Full. I had them opened to about skeet and LM. In my case, it will be my main grouse and woodcock gun, and from my experience with early season prairie grouse (leaving for ND in a little over a week), it will work fine on them as well. If I were a dove hunter, I might have left it tighter. But I'm not, so I didn't.

Some folks forget that while open chokes do give you more margin for error when you shoot, if you're doing a lot of close range shooting (like grouse and woodcock, especially early season), they also reduce the chances that you're going to destroy birds shot in the 10-15 yard range. And shots that close can be more the rule than the exception, if you're hunting woods birds while most of the leaves are still on the trees.
I am interested in a choke range but not specific choking. I don't want anything tighter in the right barrel than what falls within the modified range and nothing in the left barrel more open than that. I shoot equally as well on birds with guns choked IC/Mod, IC/Full, and Mod/Full. I see no differnce when they are hit or when they are cleaned.
Originally Posted By: Jawjadawg
F/F, F/M, M/IC, SK/SK

I have the chance to pick up a 20ga Sterlingworth with 26" barrels and F/F chokes. The gun is priced well, but I usually see shorter barrels having more open chokes. I guess you don't really know what the chokes mean until you actually pattern the gun, but I haven't seen many F/F barreled guns pattern well for upland brush hunting.

This has left me in a bit of a buying conundrum. Do spreader loads make a F/F gun more versatile and therefore desirable, or do you buy a gun for a specific purpose with the chokes you prefer? Closed chokes for turkey hunting and more open chokes for upland hunting, or do you even worry about it?


I think the first Fox that Michael McIntosh owned was choked like that. He and his friends figured the gun was ordered as a squirrel gun. I seem to recall he said the figuring was fueled by a bit of Maker's Mark, however.

Why don't you pattern the gun, use it a bit for what you intend to, and then make the decision about how it should be choked, for your own use? Later in the season, when the roosters and grouse have gotten a bit smarter, it might be the perfect gun, just the way it is.

Best,
Ted
Posted By: ed good Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/11/14 09:57 PM
26", full and full. collectors would like that. so, try some spreader loads and see what patterns you get. polywad and rst both sell fine spreader loads. and they can be ordered on line.
Posted By: J.R.B. Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/11/14 10:29 PM
In answer to your two questions-----I prefer Full in the left barrel and Mod in the right barrel. Do I care? For my own guns yes I care. I care that some nit wit didn't get in there with a Roto-Rooter and change it from what it was when it left the factory.
Posted By: tw Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/11/14 11:48 PM
On chokes, I'll throw this out for thot & you decide if it sticks to your wall or not .. I was recently having a discussion with a friend who is a long time master class sporty clays shooter, prior owner of a premier facility, has literally grown up shooting his entire life & who today shoots 200 or so sporty targets per day, almost every day, except when there is a tournament being held somewhere that he can attend. He was telling me that some years ago he used what he thot was the most 'target appropriate' choke(s)for each station & target presentation he shot, keeping meticulous records for a year. Next he shot everything for a couple of quarters with tight chokes & then followed that by using only open chokes, again keeping very accurate records. He could not prove to himself that the choke or lack of it made any real dif. in his scores. Today, he may have a couple of U-2's or a U-3's stuck in the bbls. and just shoots and has decided that he does not really care what the choke is, knowing that even open chokes tend to be "hot" in their centers. Simply put, its a matter of keeping your focus and concentration on the bird for a good result much more so than any choke. FWIW, he uses 28 gram 1145~1200 fps loads exclusively, both #7.5's & #8's.

On game, I'm of the opinion that using size appropriate shot for the intended quarry is more important than the choke & if you intend to eat it, using some restraint about taking close in or in your face shots.

Buy the gun if you like it & take Rocketman's advice, but if you don't shoot it that well consider a hot oil stock bend or LOP adjustment, or both rather than a choke alteration.

kind regards, tw
Posted By: PA24 Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/11/14 11:53 PM



Originally Posted By: J.R.B.
In answer to your two questions-----I prefer Full in the left barrel and Mod in the right barrel. Do I care? For my own guns yes I care. I care that some nit wit didn't get in there with a Roto-Rooter and change it from what it was when it left the factory.


+100.....

What really amazes me is how often this topic comes up........same b.s., over and over and over....every month or so it comes up again with the same responses over and over.........I can sure see how Poly Choke and Cutts Compensator sold all those barrel chop jobs in the 30's, 40's and 50's with the huge variation of opinions regarding choke.....what a SALES pitch they put on..........and people bought up that b.s. like liberals at a pay window.........

The fact is, choke doesn't have much to do with it if you have good eyesight and eye hand coordination IMO....one can adjust ammo now days to meet any need and to match any gun with specific reloading AND PROVE IT AT THE PATTERNING BOARD......i.e., payload, wads, charge, speeds, size, length, etc, etc, etc.......You can make any shotgun pattern as you wish with these variations if you are diligent and patient......BUT people are ALWAYS looking for that "silver bullet" thinking there is something that will magically turn them into Annie Oakley........sorry, but only practice will turn a shooter into a decent shot.......always been that way and it will never change........The Easterners grind out their barrels because they hunt grouse in small lot telephone booth areas with thick brush........The Westerners like full and modified because they can usually see the horizon and more often than not, hunt other birds more than grouse and never hunt in any telephone booth.........just the way it is.......

Others will argue of course, but like bald men who have been looking for something that grows hair since time began, shooting often and reloading with variation and patience will usually fill the "silver bullet" niche..........JMHO mileage will vary............



Posted By: Buzz Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/12/14 02:44 AM
Like everyone else, when this topic of choke comes up, I get a little amused because there are so many varied convictions. I think choke does matter some for hunting and like Stan said, spreader shells will only open choke constriction by one point. I think it does make a little difference on what species we are talking and how we are hunting that particular quarry, in terms of dog, no dog, choke, little choke, etc. I like to shoot skeet occasionally with a trap gun because I believe it is tougher than hitting the targets with a .410 skeet gun, and it's fun to see targets turn into ink balls. But I'm not going to hunt bobwhite quail over a staunch pointing dog with my trap gun. And it's not because I couldn't connect with a few of them, but rather because they would be turned into a rag, even with spreaders.......040" constriction isn't for quail hunting unless you are on a purée diet! Agree, Doug???? But that same trap gun might be just the trick for hunting pheasants with a flushing dog. Agree, Doug???
Posted By: PA24 Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/12/14 04:02 AM



Originally Posted By: buzz
I'm not going to hunt bobwhite quail over a staunch pointing dog with my trap gun. And it's not because I couldn't connect with a few of them, but rather because they would be turned into a rag, even with spreaders.......040" constriction isn't for quail hunting unless you are on a purée diet! Agree, Doug???? But that same trap gun might be just the trick for hunting pheasants with a flushing dog. Agree, Doug???



Have you EVER tried slowing your load way down to see what happens out of your full .040 over your pointing dog where distance is close ........have you Buzz....????.... Have you ever tried adjusting different payloads, shot size and shot cups at MUCH slower speeds with your .040......have you Buzz....????.... Like so many others, I'm sure your answer is NO......????..... Try it sometime Buzz, you may just amaze yourself on what patterns an .040 or any shotgun can throw at reduced speeds and close range for you up close over the dog people.......

I tell people all the time that I have never missed a bird because I used the wrong choke- I've missed more than a few because I stopped swinging or lifted my head, however!
Davide
Posted By: ed good Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/12/14 09:29 AM
pa: interesting...any more details, such as:

if full choke gun shoots full patterns at say 1200fps at 30 yards, what would one expect the same gun to shoot at same distance say at 1000 psi?

and have heard larger shot, like 4's and 6's will typically shoot tighter patterns than say 9's and 8's?
Posted By: 2-piper Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/12/14 10:53 AM
My experience, though perhaps not as extensive as some, is that a reduction in velocity most often brings on an increase in pattern % while an increase will often reduce it a bit. A reduced payload at an increased velocity will often drop the density a good bit. Also keep in mind that for this purpose its not what goes into the 30" circle thats so important, but what goes into the central core. As a general rule a tighter choked gun is far more apt to have a higher Central Thickening to the pattern.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/12/14 12:20 PM
Miller's experience matches mine. I patterned some of the then-new pheasant loads a few years back: 1 1/4 oz lead at 1500 fps. Compared patterns to the old 3 1/4 DE, 1 1/4 oz "super pigeon" recipe (1220fps) and to the other old standby, the Super-X 3 3/4 DE, 1 1/4 oz (1330 fps). Best percentage award went in reverse order of velocity, although the Super Pigeon didn't have much of an advantage over the Super-X. More of a dropoff from the Super-X to the souped-up 1500 fps loads.

Full is a good choice for longer range shooting because a tighter central core is just what you're looking for. For close range shooting, it's just what you're NOT looking for. Were tight chokes a good idea at close range, the real skeet hotshots would have discovered that long ago, and that's what they'd be shooting. Instead, they shoot very little choke.

I've killed more wild pheasants than anything else, and I've never encountered much need for a full choke. For me, 30 yards is a long shot, so I set myself up for the shots I'm most likely to have, which are inside 25 yards. At that range, cylinder will deliver a 70% pattern. I'd also rather pass on 40+ yard chances, unless the bird is already carrying some lead. I don't consider myself that good at long range, and distance increases aiming error. Wing-bust a rooster that drops at 50 yards with a pair of healthy legs, you'd better have a good dog or else you're feeding the foxes and coyotes.
Posted By: J.R.B. Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/12/14 01:12 PM
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
I don't consider myself that good at long range, and distance increases aiming error.


This might be your problem Larry. At long range you're aiming rather than snap shooting. For wild pheasants try a heavy payload of #4's in a 12 bore or better yet a good 10 bore with Full choke in the left barrel. Let him flush, wait a bit, then snap shoot. Have fun and put some meat in the freezer. smile
Right on, JRB. And it doesn't have to be more than 1 1/4oz of 4s.
Conversations like this tend to generalize with few to no parameters. The most important variable is payload. I don't mind a little more choke but I don't shoot heavy payloads. I only shoot 7/8 ounce loads in 12 and 16 gauge and I rarely use that much gun. A 50% pattern of 1-1 1/8 ounce at a given range has a heck of a lot more density than a 50% pattern of 1/2-3/4 ounce of shot at the same distance.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/12/14 02:49 PM
Originally Posted By: J.R.B.
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
I don't consider myself that good at long range, and distance increases aiming error.


This might be your problem Larry. At long range you're aiming rather than snap shooting. For wild pheasants try a heavy payload of #4's in a 12 bore or better yet a good 10 bore with Full choke in the left barrel. Let him flush, wait a bit, then snap shoot. Have fun and put some meat in the freezer. smile


Why would I want to do that, when they're flushing closer and I'm shooting an open choke specifically because I know those are the kinds of shots I'm going to get? Play games with pheasants, let them get out further, and you'll end up losing more cripples. In Roster's steel shot lethality tests, birds hit with shot even as small as steel 6's were hardly ever lost if they hit the ground inside 30 yards. Outside 40 yards, crippling losses increased by a factor of 5. I've kept notes on pheasant hunting and unrecovered birds for a very long time. Something in excess of 1500 birds. The amount of time needed for the dog to get to the downed bird is the major factor in losing them. Might be a bird that falls at longer range, might be some kind of barrier (fence, stream, whatever) between the dog and the bird. But give a rooster more of a head start, you're more likely to lose him. I'm interested in not only knocking them down, but putting them in the bag.
Posted By: J.R.B. Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/13/14 01:52 AM
What ever works for you Larry. I don't care if it hails as long as you're happy but you won't find a Roto-Rooted gun in my stable.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/13/14 12:08 PM
Don't always have to open them up. Just acquired a British 12 that came from the factory with the R barrel cylinder. I did have to modify the L one, however. It was full.

But whatever works. Just seems to me that if most of my shots are going to come at skeet distances, then the kind of chokes used in that game make a lot of sense.
Posted By: wyobirds Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/13/14 01:18 PM
A friend of mine bought a Parker choked tight mod and tight full. We shot factory loads at a pattern board and confirmed the chokes were tighter than he wanted. We loaded some hulls the old way using card and fiber wads and the chokes opened up to a loose mod and tight mod. We loaded up some spreader loads and achieved a variety of usable patterns. Before I would ream out the chokes, I would attempt to get the desired patterns by reloading using card and fiber and spreader loads.
Posted By: PA24 Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/13/14 01:41 PM



Originally Posted By: wyobirds
A friend of mine bought a Parker choked tight mod and tight full. We shot factory loads at a pattern board and confirmed the chokes were tighter than he wanted. We loaded some hulls the old way using card and fiber wads and the chokes opened up to a loose mod and tight mod. We loaded up some spreader loads and achieved a variety of usable patterns. Before I would ream out the chokes, I would attempt to get the desired patterns by reloading using card and fiber and spreader loads.


+2.... So simple.........but some people around here just can't figure that one out...I guess it's just easier to butcher the barrels and turn the vintage gun into a "one use only" gun, sad indeed........

There are also other reloading techniques to accomplish those same open patterns with factory full choked vintage guns should you shoot at close ranges, but still want an unbutchered vintage gun to shoot at long range for other species.........then you can carry short range ammo in the left pocket, long range ammo in the right pocket, depending on the topography and your hunting style, i.e. dog or no dog, Eastern or Western or in between.......


Posted By: J.R.B. Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/13/14 02:01 PM
Even with different brands of factory shells my guns pattern different. I guess people are too lazy to go to a pattern board. It's easier to take the barrels to the Roto-Rooter man.
Posted By: 2-piper Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/13/14 02:59 PM
Note that I am in perfect agreement with not reaming out these older guns. I have for instance a very nice 16 ga H grade LAC gun with 28" bbls having full choke in both bbls. While the use I would make of this gun does not call for full chokes, full choked will it remain with loads to compensate.
Another thing I often see recommended is for short range use with a too tight choke is to drop shot size based on a generality that larger sizes of shot often give a slightly higher pattern % than do smaller sizes. This seems totally in reverse to me. #6 shot for instance have 30% more shot per ounce than #5 shot of the same alloy. Changing from #5 shot to #6 shot is not going to reduce the pattern % by 30%, but it will put more total shot in any given circle size.
All of this of course does take a bit of shooting & trying but it is remarkable what can be accomplished if one is willing to work at it a bit.
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
I did have to modify the L one, however. It was full.


No, you didn't HAVE to open it up, you CHOSE to.

SRH
Posted By: Buzz Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/13/14 05:30 PM
What's the crime in opening chokes a little?? I don't get it. I routinely have chokes 'tuned' on competition guns. And I do it on hunting guns too. I want my guns to shoot perfect patterns. I just don't get it. Why is it so important for these guns to have virgin barrels? Some of them don't shoot all that great from the factory and a good barrel man can sometimes do wonders with what otherwise is mediocre or even poor.
Posted By: Lloyd3 Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/13/14 06:17 PM
On a double, it's hard to beat the combination of IC and IM (1/4 & 3/4) for any upland situation. This would be from 12 to even 20 gauge guns. For a fixed-choke single barrel, modified is the go-to choice.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/13/14 11:45 PM
Originally Posted By: Stan
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
I did have to modify the L one, however. It was full.


No, you didn't HAVE to open it up, you CHOSE to.

SRH


For my purposes, Stan . . . yes, I HAD to. I have no use for full choke in anything other than maybe the tight barrel of a sxs I'd use for trap or turkeys. And I don't shoot trap all that much, usually 16 yard, where mod works fine. (And I already have a M/F sxs.) And haven't hunted turkeys in quite some time. What sense does one full choke barrel make in a gun used for skeet, sporting clays (recreational variety, nothing particularly long), grouse and woodcock hunting, prairie grouse (mostly early season), and pheasants over some pretty good dogs? Oh yeah . . . and driven birds in Scotland? (Just the "normal" type, not a steady diet of 50 yard + archangels?)

For those that find full choke useful, more power to you. As can be seen from the above, it doesn't make much sense for me.
What sense does it make? Finishing off cripples, for one. Oh, but I forgot. You don't cripple any. Your records prove it.

SRH
Originally Posted By: buzz
What's the crime in opening chokes a little?? I don't get it. I routinely have chokes 'tuned' on competition guns.


As for me, I could care less whether someone reams out every bit of choke in a British gun, or a competition gun. I opened the chokes on my MX-8 from F/F to M/M. No great shakes there, either way. What I hate to see is an American classic that is screwed with, when there are options to opening the pattern without that being done. The old saying is so true, "you can take metal out but you can't put it back".

SRH
Posted By: Buzz Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/14/14 12:33 AM
Stan; What's so precious about an American SxS vs a British gun? I don't get that part either.
I guess it's just me, buzz. I'm not a wannabe Limey, and I could care less about British guns. I appreciate the workmanship and the quality, but think they are terribly overrated. I own a very nice British side lock game gun, and haven't shot it in 10 years. I enjoy shooting and hunting with original American classics much more.

Ever noticed how few people care if a British gun is exactly the way it left the maker's bench?

SRH
Posted By: PA24 Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/14/14 12:48 AM


Originally Posted By: buzz
I don't get that part either.



Buzz, you keep saying over and over that YOU DON'T GET IT...........and by your response I would say that you don't get it....LOL.........question: WHY WOULD YOU REMOVE STEEL ON ANY VINTAGE GUN BARREL WHEN YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH THE SAME RESULT WITHOUT BUTCHERING THE GUN, WHY....???????...I don't get that, makes absolutely NO sense at all..............

You mentioned earlier that the factory choke borings weren't all that good, even poor you said.....have you ever considered that you were shooting the wrong loads in those vingtage guns and that you were the problem, not the choke borings......????....

Grind up your new guns, you competition whooptie whoops and all your other stamped out newbees....but why butcher the old ones.........?

And I'm with Stan on the over-rated, over-priced Brit guns.....Italian, German, American, Japanese, French and some Spanish are much better IMHO......BTW, I wouldn't grind them up either....I learned a long time ago that one should match the ammo to the gun and the target, not the other way around............


Best,

Posted By: Buzz Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/14/14 01:00 AM
Well........I agree with you guys mostly. Unless the hunting guns just shoot terrible, I leave them alone. I've got some 21's and wouldn't dream of messing with the chokes. But Winchester regulated their guns pretty darn well. I see Doug and Stan's points and respect them too. I will tell you what I really hate is a hunting gun that's a feather blower. British, American, Italian or whatever......if I like the gun otherwise and want to kill birds with it, I will have it in Eyster's shop in a New York second for a 'tune up'.
Posted By: J.R.B. Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/14/14 01:37 AM
Originally Posted By: L. Brown

I've kept notes on pheasant hunting and unrecovered birds for a very long time. Something in excess of 1500 birds.


You go ahead and take notes Larry. While you're sitting on a tree stump with pencil and paper in hand I'm going to put pheasants in my stew pot.
Originally Posted By: buzz
What's the crime in opening chokes a little?? I don't get it. I routinely have chokes 'tuned' on competition guns. And I do it on hunting guns too. I want my guns to shoot perfect patterns. I just don't get it. Why is it so important for these guns to have virgin barrels? Some of them don't shoot all that great from the factory and a good barrel man can sometimes do wonders with what otherwise is mediocre or even poor.


In my opinion there is no crime in opening chokes if done correctly. That said there is a real value in the market for leaving things as original. I doubt that bias will ever change.

I have not had the need to open chokes, but would if required.

In answer to the original question: I choose to shoot Skeet/Modified over a pointing dog. Often using spreader loads through that. I often shoot CYL/CYL with my hand me down hammer gun. For distant shoot (30-45 yards for me) I shoot IC/MOD, but that is rare.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/14/14 08:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Stan
What sense does it make? Finishing off cripples, for one. Oh, but I forgot. You don't cripple any. Your records prove it.

SRH


Stan, show me a hunter who kills every pheasant cleanly and/or who never loses a crippled wild rooster, and I'll show you someone who hasn't hunted wild pheasants very much. What my records "prove" is that I lose far fewer cripples than were lost in Roster's steel shot lethality tests--and those guys were shooting preserve birds, not wild ones--and there is one heck of a difference in terms of tenacity. The Roster test showed a 12.2% wounding loss rate, which is about one for every 8 birds recovered. (Iowa DNR numbers, based on hunter interviews, is 1 lost for every 10 put on the ground.) The Roster test wounding loss rate dropped to 3% for birds hit inside 30 yards--which is pretty close to my own overall wounding loss rate of 4 to 5%. And it's one reason I prefer to shoot them close: less chance of losing them. I figure a good dog hunting with someone who's a reasonably good shot ought to recover around 20 for every one lost--and that's what my records show. I've had a couple that have been above a 1 to 25 recovery rate. And that's for every bird that's hit, not just my own--assuming my dog is the only one on the ground which it often is, or is the one that attempts the retrieve. I won't brag about my own shooting, but I will brag about my dogs. When I was shooting a lot of pheasants, they were way better than average both finding them in the first place and running down the ones that hit the ground with two good legs. Memory often fails; my hunting notes don't.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/14/14 08:36 PM
Originally Posted By: J.R.B.
Originally Posted By: L. Brown

I've kept notes on pheasant hunting and unrecovered birds for a very long time. Something in excess of 1500 birds.


You go ahead and take notes Larry. While you're sitting on a tree stump with pencil and paper in hand I'm going to put pheasants in my stew pot.


Well JRB, I take my notes AFTER the hunt, not sitting on a tree stump during the hunt. And if you're in South Dakota, I've shot a bunch of birds before you even have your boots on the ground. Iowa allows an 8 o'clock start, and I've had some limits before you Dakota boys even got started at 10 (or noon, earlier in the season).
Posted By: J.R.B. Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/15/14 12:58 AM
Originally Posted By: L. Brown


Well JRB, I take my notes AFTER the hunt, not sitting on a tree stump during the hunt. And if you're in South Dakota, I've shot a bunch of birds before you even have your boots on the ground. Iowa allows an 8 o'clock start, and I've had some limits before you Dakota boys even got started at 10 (or noon, earlier in the season).


I hate to burst your bubble but pheasant hunting starts 1/2 hour before sunrise in NORTH DAKOTA and our local game warden does carry an almanac for sunrise and sunset times. Better sharpen your Crayola.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/15/14 11:16 AM
Thanks, JRB . . . but saying you're from West Dakota doesn't give too much of a clue as to whether it's Northwest or Southwest. Last time I looked, South Dakota extended as far west as ND, and they kill more pheasants. Not that you Northerners don't have good hunting too . . . and not as many nonresidents.
Stan,
Just being picky here, lol..but by saying "I could care less about English Guns", it seems like you could care less, so you must care a wee tiny bit?
If , on the other hand you said "I couldn't care less about English Guns" its obvious that they are right on the bottom most rung of your crap ladder.
As for chokes , I would try to , & have , messed with loads for different spreads...and it worked, but I have had a couple opened up a tad
cheers
franc
Posted By: tut Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/17/14 01:09 AM
Bunch of sensitive folks here. Ok, IMO if one hunts in the NE for Grouse/Woodcock, something like .005 and .015 work pretty well if one is hunting over pointing pups. Maybe a tad more tight hunting over flushers. For out west I used to have a Merkel 16 with 1/4 and 3/4 which near as I can figure out is a tight IC and improved modified. Seemed to work damn well over flushers for roosters out to 40 yards.

PS. Not that it truly matters, but I'm talking 16 gauge on the above.
Posted By: bbman3 Re: What chokes do you prefer? Do you care? - 09/17/14 02:34 AM
.000 and .028 works for me in a 16 or 20 bore. Bobby
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