Gentleman,I am going to try reloading since I have been shooting a great deal of clays recently. My question is: what supplies(powder type,load, plastic wad type, and shot -a relatively hard shot as is used in target loads) do I need to replicate the shell loads with I have been using for my two guns?Mec 600 jrs will be used.
I have been using Winchester AA"super sport sporting clays" shells of 2 3/4" 1300fps -7/8 oz of #8 for my 20g .
For my 60 yr. old 12g Elsie I have been using AA xtra lite target load (2 3/4 dr. eq. 1 oz. of 8 & 71/2 shot.) Pressure and recoil are serious considerations for the Elsie.
Any recommendations as to what I need or where I can find published info needed are appreciated . Thanks in advance, Wayne
I use 1 oz. of hard shot,WW pink 1 oz.wad, 17 grains of Red Dot, WW209 primer in a PAPER Federal. Very soft, low recoil, about 1100 fps. A real source of safe answers is in the powder makers reloading guides on line.
bill
Bill,
Have you patterned your load? I have used green dot in the past and it patterned well. I have heard more than once that red dot tends to produce donut hole patterns. I have recently started reloading federal paper hulls and there nothing like them. I went quail hunting about a month ago and it was a treat to be using paper hulls in my 12g 1890 Damascus GH grade Parker. I also load 1 oz loads. My load of choice is Federal Paper, WW209, CB4118, 18 grains of Clays, Chilled Lead, 1180 fps @ 5800 psi.
Derrick
Derrick: I burn 24lb. of Red Dot per year. Reliable, economical, burns when cold. Have yet to see or hear about 'donut hole' patterns. Who spreads this crap?
Shotgunjones, I have heard several people at the local gun club make that statement. I personally have never used it and I was just courious since Bill mentioned he uses it. I still have some green dot.
Derrick
All the powder companies publish free loading manuals. Get some and look for low pressure loads. Don't take data from Internet sources. Less shot and lower velocities are the primary way to get less recoil and low pressure. Select the powder that gives you that, using the fewest grains. The type of powder has no effect on recoil and little effect on patterns, IMO. Be safe.
Doughnut hole patterns - best excuse I have heard yet to explain a lousy score at the shotgun range! Have to remember that one.
Yeah, "I centered that one. Musta been that 'donuthole' the bird got thru".
I've found buying as many reloading manuals as I think have potential load data I would use, is a good thing to have around.
My pet 12g load for my old guns is similar to one above;
Fed paper, Fed primer, 17.5 gr Clays, Fed 12S3 wad (12S0 may also work, but crimping was not right when I used it), 1 oz of magnum hard shot, for a 1150 fps/6500 psi load. I've used this load on So.Dakota phez when substituting #5 shot and many Calif quail with #7 1/2 shot. I'm of the opinion that there is some value in keeping the velocity no lower than in the 1100-1200 fps range for my uses. Others may have more experience in lower velocities, but this keeps my leads within reason of all the modern loads I use in the field at longer ranges as well as clay shooting. I do use some 1300 fps loads for phez and don't want to stray too far downward in velocity for the reloads if I can get good velocity while staying acceptably low in pressure. Regardless of all the touting of low velocities, no one can discount that 'speed kills'. Get it too low and it won't. Velocity is the other half of the energy equation. Now where's that old football helmet?
I think you can leave it in the locker, Chuck. I'm not an experienced pheasant hunter so the sample is small, but the four or five I've killed were all with loads at 1290fps alleged MV (one-piece AA hull, W209, Rem. Fig. 8 target wad or Fed. 12SO, 1 oz. hard #6, 18 gr. Accurate Nitro 100 , pressure 8400psi w/ the Rem wad; 9700psi for the 12SO.) All thru M12. I don't tempt the old stuff and CIP guns to give way with pressures much beyond 8000psi (or 5kpsi for damascus barrels) so that usually means 1150-1200fps for targets.
jack
A lot of reloading data can be downloaded from the Powder manufacturers websites. Hogdon's, Hercules,Nobel are excellent.
Also try
http://www.shotgunworld.com reloaders forum, BUT take all loads with a pinch of salt unless it corralates to the powder manufacturers data.Be aware that the primer is possibly the most dangerous component, next to the operator that is.
I was interested in learning about Nitro 100, since Jim Legg recommended it for low pressure loads. Accurate does indeed PUBLISH pressures for reduced loads, and their data is voluminous.
Another refreshing thing is that Accurate lumps all standard 209 primers in one category and dosen't split hairs or waste time testing each and every one. Guess what guys? With the possible exception of the CCI 209M and Federal, all 209's are pretty much the same just like some of us have been saying for a while now.
I'm of the opinion that the primary variable in reloading is the condition of the hull. Good firm crimp, good shell. Crummy crimp, crummy shell.
SGJ,I tried Nitro 100 for damascus reloading on Jim's rec. I suspect it's RD with more data and no dots. Perhaps not; it's a double-base powder; not sure about RD, both fast burning. Chopped extruded cylinders like RD or Promo but much smaller in diameter. Get down to 4900psi with 7/8 oz in 12 gauge and it goes off consistently in cold weather. Need a bit of faith as it seems to have been made everywhere. Had a couple 1 lb bottles which I recall were made in Czechoslovakia, 4 lb. jug says Canada, latest 8 pounder doesn't say. Pretty economical for target fodder, price and amt used per load. This and Promo and some IMR numerical stuff for 16 gauge are about all I have on hand. BTB, 2003 Accurate Arms manual does list pressure differences for loads in which one of two variables is primer (other being wad choice).
jack
I have always found velocities in the 1100-1200 fps mv range to provide adequate killing with appropriate shot sizes. I believe for the most part in the eyes of the "Speed Kills" club this is considered "Low Velocity" as they are generally speaking of speeds approaching 1400 fps mv or more. Shot size must be taken into account with velocity. Exmple a #5 shot @ 1135 mv reaches 40 yds @ only 715fps. A #6 though to reach 40 yds @ an identical 715fps requires an 1185 MV. At this identical 715fps the #5 packs 2.93 ftlbs while the #6 has 2.18 ftlbs of energy. A #6 propelled @ 1330 mv, a full 195fps faster than the 1135 #5 will arrive at 40 yds only 50 fps faster, 765, & still have only 2.50 ftlbs. The smaller shot of course can put more shot in the pattern. It's just all a balancing act.
So, when pushing lead balloons at feathered fauna, a little more of everything is good up to the point where there is much less of something.
jack
I have shot thousands of 1 oz/red dot loads and never had a pattern problem, good arrows, poor indian on occasion. Jim keeps saying loads don't affect recoil, only charge weight and speed?? He does shoot an auto with a recoil pad must not be due to recoil just good looks????
bill
Not sure what your point is, Bill. I never said "loads don't affect recoil" I said burning rate of powder doesn't affect recoil, and I'll say it again: burning rate of powder doesn't affect recoil. Recoil is determined by the weight of the ejecta(powder, wad and shot), the velocity and the weight of the gun. Not by bore size, length of forcing cones, construction of the base wad in the shell and not by the latest line of BS in the advertisements. I shoot all sorts of guns. Mostly doubles, one single, two gas autos and one muxzzle loader. All of them have recoil pads because recoil pads reduce felt recoil. I have also never seen a true donut pattern. And I don't have any idea what the point of your post was. Assuming the same velocity, the only effect burning rate of powder has on recoil is that slow burning powder produces more of it because you need more powder to produce the same velocity(adds to the ejecta weight).