I have an opportunity to buy a 20 ga Grade 2 LC Smith. I have heard the Hunter One Trigger is often problematic and there are few gunsmiths willing/able to work on them. Please chime in! Thank you! Gil

See if the seller will allow you test fire it first- a Grade 2 20 will have the 2 & 1/2" shorter chambers, so RST shells are a must-I'd want to test fire this gun with the trigger in both L and R settings, with at least a full box of shells- Also, FYI- the HOT equipped Smith guns will always have a non-automatic safety. You are right, the best LC Smith gunsmith in America that I know of, will NOT work on HOT triggers- Buck Hamlin in MO.

I really like the Hunter One Triggers I have not had any problems with mine be I hear that Jerry Andrews is the guru on them.
Ken

I have been shooting one pretty hard for about 5-6 years. Never a hiccup. My gun, however, is in above average condition, leading me to think the trigger has never been messed with.

I think it is pretty well accepted among Smith aficionados that Jerry Andrews is the go-to man for problematic HOTs.

SRH

They are a complex and delicate piece of equipment. And very reliable. At least until someone who does not know what they are doing messes with them. Even over tightening a screw on the action can cause them to act up.

If the gun is original and not fooled with and clean, it will likely work fine for you.

My gunsmith thought so much of them that he duplicated several of them for installation on other Smiths.

Jerry is your guy. I have had him repair three, mind you these three were all fixer uppers or damaged guns. The ones I've shot have never failed me. I had a Pigeon grade double on me once while dove hunting but never again so I don't bad mouth the HOT overall.
I will say if it works let it be- throw away your screwdrivers so you won't be tempted.

I asked Dewey Vicknair about them one time. He said they work fine if they are clean and haven't been messed with. Dewey would know.

I presently own and shoot a 1925 vintage Ideal Grade 12-bore with a HOT unit; this gun has obviously seen some aftermarket tampering, but the trigger units works great and without a hitch. I once got a deal on a 1912 vintage 3-E 12-bore because the HOT unit on that gun didn't work at all. The gun was sent to Jerry Andrews for a trigger repair and I shot the gun for years afterwards with no other issues (still regret trading that Smith). I've owned several other Smiths with the HOT option; and the only problem ever encountered with any was with a beautiful A-2 Grade. If I selected right barrel first, the gun would double; if I fired the left barrel first, the trigger unit worked fine. Not wanting the gun tampered with, I left the gun AS IS and used it quite effectively with the left/right firing order for years.

And as I prefer double guns with manually operated safety slides, let me add also that one thing I really appreciated about the Smith HOT unit is that it won't allow an "automatic" safety feature (maybe when used on other makes, but on a Smith gun there is not enough room after installation for the bar that connects the safety slide to the top lever). So when shooting clays, or in a late season dove blind by myself I never have to be concerned with losing a shot because I either failed to remember, or improperly manipulated the safety slide (some will consider this practice unsafe; so I don't encourage anyone to follow my personal preferences).

All troubles with the Hunter One Trigger (Lard's patent) are caused by the design shortcomings of the gun in which it's installed, and/or the tamperings of the incompetent.

It's funny that Lard triggers in Westley Richards guns have no such bad reputation but when that trigger is used in a Smith it suddenly becomes an incomprehensibly complex, unreliable unit that "America's best" gunsmiths won't touch?
Give me a break.

I suggest that you read the Guncraft section in the March/April 2010 issue of Shooting Sportsman. There you will find all you need to know regarding Allan Lard's fine design.

As far as repairs, I wholeheartedly recommend Jerry Andrews. He understands how these triggers function and is willing to work on them.

Happily, my days of working on Smiths are past.

Ned Lilly won, placed, or showed five times for the GAH doubles championship. He didn't mess around. I have always thought it was telling that his Crown Grade Smith had a Miller trigger.

That same article, by Vic Venters, also appears in his book "Gun Craft". A good volume for any doublegun lover to have in his library.

[quote=Ithaca5E]Ned Lilly won, placed, or showed five times for the GAH doubles championship. He didn't mess around. I have always thought it was telling that his Crown Grade Smith had a Miller trigger. [/quoteNed is from Stanton, MI the Montcalm Co. seat in MI- his father, Old "Doc" Lilly devlivered many babies back in his time, and Ned was a boyhood Trapshooting Legend. His Smith is in the ATA Hall of Fame, not sure about his Model 12. His son John, 6 years younger than myself, and I used to bird hunt together back in the mid to late 1970's- John was on the Army clays team, shot a 12 gauge Win 101 for clays, and a Winchester M59 12 ga. for birds-Damn fine wingshot too!!

i thought lc had 2 3/4 chambers

Hunter Arms Co. lengthened 20 gauge chambers from 2 1/2" to 2 3/4" in 1936. L.C. Smith and Fulton 16 gauge guns manufactured as late as 1939 are still found to have 2 9/16" chambers.
Unless otherwise marked, 12g chambers from the time of L.C. Smith Maker, Syracuse hammer (1884) and hammerless (1886) were 2 3/4".

Gil I had a Smith 20 ga 2E and a 12 gauge Crown grade with factory SST and they gave no trouble.L C Smith made a great many more side by side guns with single triggers than any other maker except Win 21. Bobby

I've said this before and I will say it again, most problems with a HOT is that the gun was taken apart by a gunsmith that did not know L.C. Smiths and the Hunter One Trigger. There are three screws that can cause this trigger to not work or not work correctly.
In putting the stock back on, the top tang to trigger plate screw has to be just right, too tight and it will cause the trigger housing plates to bind on the sears. This screw has a tapered head and has to be orientated to the slope of the top tang, so this means one full turn.
The next screw, rear trigger plate to rear of top tang. This screw if it is sticking out of the top tang is doing the same, binding the trigger plate to the sears.
The third screw is one that is the most common problem when the locks are taken off, the lock plate connecting screw. One half turn will make the HOT double or not work at all. Since all screws to an L.C. Smith, even the lowly Field Grade farmers implement gun had all screws orientated.

If you have ever had a stock off a gun with a HOT trigger and seen how much more wood had to be removed for it to fit, you would wonder how it could hold up. Not only was more removed, but where the selector bar is, a small hollow is put on each side for the bar to be able to move for left or right switching.

The HOT is an excellent trigger if left alone with very few moving parts. Of anything to go wrong is the thin wire spring on the spur lever.

No screws in a Smith (or any shotgun) have to be tightened "just right" in order for the trigger to function. If the trigger does not function with all of the screws tight (as they should be), then the problem is that the stock's internal structure has failed, PERIOD. Shooting a Smith (or any other gun) with screws (especially the breech screw) loosened at all will have a detrimental effect on the gun. It is gun plumber advice like this, that helped to get this trigger its undeserved bad reputation.

"No screws in a Smith (or any shotgun) have to be tightened "just right" in order for the trigger to function"

Bet me.
"It is gun plumber advice like this that got this trigger its undeserved bad reputation."

Excuse me Mr. know-it-all, what is a breech screw?

Bet me?

Wow, clearly I've been proven wrong.

Dewey, I get defensive because of the way you present yourself, so naturally this is the response you got.

I know exactly how they interface even with my gun plumber knowledge.

I have taken enough of these guns apart to know how the trigger works.

Also I use the correct terminology for the names of the screws as per Hunter Arms drawings.

And don't tell me that any one of these screws will not make a HOT not work.

I have met you more than once at the Spring Shoot in Carlisle.