I am toying with having CSMC make a Model 21 side by side in a 16 ga, pistol grip and BT fore end.

My question is - would it be a mistake to have the receiver case colored versus the more traditional bluing. Anyone aware if Winchester ever produced from the factory a model 21 with case coloring?

I have a 16 gauge CSMC Model 21. I don't know what you're planning on using this gun for, but remember, they are heavy. Mine weighs 7lbs, 6oz. That's a lot of weight to be lugging around in the field.
If requested, I'm sure some fat can be removed. I'd be more concerned about this than case coloring. But, if you want it, you should have it. A custom gun should be done your way. Don't worry about what others have and get what suits you.

Thanks, I am concerned also about the weight and is something that I will need to address. I am not a fan of super lightweights, but would like it to be about 6.75 lbs

Model 21s are built out of 4140 tool steel. It does not color case harden. I'm not aware of a tool steel that does.

Best,
Ted

It may not case harden in a traditional sense, but I believe 4140 is case colored all the time.

I believe the Parker Reproductions are 4140 chromoly and they are color hardened by Turnbull and Bachelder.

Craig,
Tool steels are hardened all the time, but, they harden completely through, not just a surface "case".
The color is a most unpleasant dull blue, to straw, usually.

Best,
Ted

i believe you can get a 21 in 16 gauge under 7 pounds as several of my friends have them. They are original Winchesters, not CSMC guns. One just picked up an all original 30" double trigger extractor gun that weighs 6 pounds 8 ounces. It is a fabulous handling wand. I've seen one 16 gauge that was lightened, including lightning cuts to the water table. It weighs 6 pounds with 28" barrels and a straight stock and it was built on a 20 gauge frame. Ask CSMC what they can do.
If you look in Steven Hughes Custom Shotgun book there is a pic of a lovely redone M21 that is case colored. The side panels have been rounded, the receiver scalloped and it has well executed game scene engraving. Nicest looking 21 I've ever seen.
Regards,
Jeff

Yes, ask your questions of CSMC. As far as weight goes, my 16 ga. Win. M-21 hits the mark at that weight, but has a splinter and straight grip with a buttstock cavity.

To get an idea of what CSMC might be able to do for weight, follow this link http://bluepike.tripod.com/Model21/21WeightComparison.htm to a chart on Mike's M-21 website. It shows actual weights of 7 Win. M-21s in 16 ga. that range from less than 6.5 to a few ounces more than 7 lbs.

Jay

Thanks for the complements, that was a fun project and as light as I could get it without heroics, but I didn't, and would NEVER case color a M-21. Simply the wrong steel.

I have never seen any Winchester Model literature that offers case coloring on a Model 21.
I have never seen any factory original Model 21 with case coloring.
If CSMC is going to build you a M21, then they would be the people to discuss this with.
The flat area on a 'Flat Side' (the bosses are not required) lend them selves to engraving. That is where I would put my extra money.
If your asking for an opinion, I'm traditional, but when CSMC made my Fox, it was case colored but all the little animals and the Fox were eliminated with only deep engraving at my request.
With the advent of computer graphics, try to find someone to 'PhotoShop' a pic for you.-Richard

Original 21. 1948
6 lbs on the nose with 26" WS1/WS2
Sub 7lbs with 30 inchers.

Parker Repo's are tough to color because the lump that connects the top tang to the bottomed is not machined out of solid but two pieces braised into one. The braising mater contaminates your furnace! This makes this job and the next tough to do.
(This info from Oscar)
bill

Never thought of the steel not taking a case color - thanks for the input.

SDH,
I had gun pics a bit transposed in my head. I got out your book this morning to jog my memory. I was thinking of the 20 gauge M21 done by Bruce Russel that is on page 69 of Double Shotguns. It's engraved by Eric Gold and is cyanide case colored. The back of the receiver is not scalloped, but it's still the nicest 21 I've ever ogled.
Which prompts the question, why are so few 21s scalloped? I've only seen 2 that I can recall.
Regards,
Jeff

I really like it too Jeff. Looks like the hard steel of that M-21 took cyanide colors ok.

Steve, hope you don't mind that I scanned a grainy copy of your pic of this gun and posted it here. "Fine Gunmaking - Double Shotguns" is among my favorite shotgun books, you share terrific info and wonderful photos.

Jay

Not an ugly gun.

Rounding off that pointed panel sure helped the looks of that receiver, IMO. That, with the rounded cheeks, transforms the 21. Very nice looking receiver.

SRH

Thanks for the nice words.
Last I heard Bruce was building boats in ME and Eric has gone on to become one of America's preeminent engravers in Prescott, AZ. The book remains popular, much to my delight.

i thought eric was in flagstff