One thing the pump and autoloaders (the later which I personally despise) taught us when young boys was that the safety ain't on until you put it on. I have long ago dismantled the automatic safeties on most of my double guns and made them manually operated. While I trust no safety, at least the one I conscioulsy
operate, has forced a discipline which makes sense. What do you lads think? Auto safeties: love 'em or hate 'em (which I do.) Chopperlump

I grew up shooting a Webley 700 with automatic safety. I was always taught to treat a gun as if it were dangerous - safety on or off.

Since then I have owned and used guns with auto and non-auto safety and hammer guns with rebounding and non-rebounding locks.

Just treat the gun as if it were cocked all the time and periodically do a visual and manual check of the safety, like you periodically check the rear view mirror in your car.

Neither option is inherently safe or unsafe in my opinion, it is about the operator being disciplined in the operation of whatever he is using.

Of course, double rifles frequently have non-auto safeties because it would be pretty dangerous to load, close mount, swing and fire at a charging beastie - only to realise you left the saftey on. Then you are lunch!

My first firearm was a Savage Stevens .410 SxS (now my 18 year old daughter's) and it has the automatic safety. For someone learning to shoot and hunt or who doesn't shoot or hunt very often, I think the automatic safety does add an extra margin of safety. Such shooters can be nervous and shooting pretty exciting. Anything that might help prevent an accidental discharge (confused minds and young hands and fingers shaking) even at the expense of forgetting to take the saftey off and missing a shot (which happened to me more often than I would care to admit), is a good feature. I was more comfortable taking my daughter shooting with me and others knowing that the little .410 shotgun was looking out for all of us!

For clays where the shotgun is kept unloaded until the shot is to be fired I think the automatic safety is a bother. It is also something to go wrong. My Fox Sterlingworth's became jammed in the off position and when it got jammed a second time after I attempted to fix it, I didn't give a second thought to leaving the transfer bar out and "converting" the saftey to manual. Disabling the automatic safety made the Fox a better shotgun. In the field, while it only takes a split second to flip an automatic safety off after a reload, it is an extra thing to do on a moving gun and therefore for both clays and hunting, I prefer the manaul safety.

Doug

It doesn't matter to me if there's one or two triggers, manual or autosafety, pump or auto. I can even use the Browning H safety without screwing up. Go figure. OTOH, I have watched grown men forget to take the safety off repeatedly during a single round of clays. Drives me nuts. These same guys will continue to struggle with the same gun day after day, year after year. I don't get it. Maybe my IQ is too low to have a problem with these things.

Similarly, I do not care whether a field gun has an autosafety. It will be on when it should. If I miss a bird b/c I forgot to take the piece off safe I deserve to be slapped. I will not hunt with anyone who tells me that there's not enough time to take a safety off after a flush. And I tell them to read "The Modern Technique of the Pistol".

Bottom line: I believe that if technique is sound an autosafety is a non-issue.

Here's my own pet peeve: finger on the trigger when calling for a target..........teaching yourself a bad habit I say. No need for this even on station 8.

Sam

...no need for it even on station 8 in a round of International Skeet.

A few guys here go into a blue fury at the mention of an auto safety. I guess I don't understand all the fuss. I've noticed that if you ask the question of a SxS or O/U guy while hunting or shooting at the range, "does that gun have an automatic safety"? that, if they can't answer the question, they will be the guys forgetting to take it off, and muffing shots. Ignorance is correctable, only stupidity is forever.
Have had both designs. I always know where the safety is, even if the gun moved it on after I opened it. Have handed guys open guns to examine, and cringed as they stuck finger on trigger and closed the gun, as they brought it to their shoulder. I don't hunt or shoot with them if they do it again after I point it out.
Best,
Ted

It's hereditary. Be nice to them, they are the deductively challenged.

Hate them! If I never did any shooting except in the hunting field, I'd probably tolerate them. However, I shoot clay targets 1,000:1 over every hunting shot and they are a royal nuisance there and a waster of clay birds. Makers have put them on SxS for ages, probably because it's a "feature" that's easy to incorporate into the double design. Possibly also because of the British habit of having two guns and a loader for driven shoots, the loader passing the loaded gun to the shooter. However, that passing would be even safer with the gun open. It's the first modification I make on any double I intend to keep. It also allows you to let the hammers down without messing with snap caps. Have to wonder how anyone survives tragedy while using a pump, semi-auto or O/U without one?
Respectfully,
"Blue Rage"

I hate them too. My first SXS had a manual safety and it was easy to get used to, the main safety of the gun is between my ears. I have dismantled them on most of my guns.
All too often at the skeet and trap new shooters will call for a target and try to shoot and nothing, the safety was on. I've been seeing this more and more with pumps and autos; not just once but on the next stations as well. It does get frustrating.

Jack K

Does anyone know if you can change a SKB 585 from manual to automatic saftey? My local gunsmith---fairly good but not a break action expert---says no. I would prefer an automatic, the rest of my guns are and I would prefer that this gun be, too. My opinion is you just can't be too safe and I'd prefer screwing up on the clays range to having an accidental discharge in the field. Never had one yet, but never is a VERY long time.

Steve

Either is fine. The auto safety on my Coggie works, but I never assume it's on 'safe' without regularly checking. The manual safety on my Bernie works, but I never assume it's on 'safe' without regularly checking. I shoot low-gun skeet and SC, and the safety never comes 'off' until the clay's flying and I'm mounting the gun (something that bothers me a little about the pre-mount off-safe shooters).

The important thing is that any gun can go off anywhere at any time, so don't ever rely on any mechanical safety, automatic or not.

You may not have thought of this.If you have disabled the automatic safety on any of your guns,you better put it back to Factory Specs before you transfer the gun to someone else.
WHY? The new owner may obtain a factory owners manual that states the gun has an automatic safety. If an accident occurs,you are setting your self up for (Deep Pocket Change) liabiliy.People sue at a drop of a hat.
We are familiar with our guns operations,but we have raised a couple of generations of people that don't know which end of the barrel the bullet comes out of. Think about it.
R.MOON.

Is there a manual safety fan here who can honestly say he has never, ever, in the heat of the moment, forgotten to put the safety on? I confess to making that blunder, and more than once.

Fortunately, safe gun handling fundamentals trump every kind of mechanical safety.

I don't understand the fuss about auto safties. Even the gods like Bill Jordan and Col. Cooper admit to AD's with rifles, pistols and shotguns.
IMHO, forgetting the safety is on is potentially less damaging than forgetting it's off. A missed bird or clay because of the safety is the shooter's responsibility, regardless. So is an accidental discharge. Given the choice, I'll take the embarrassment of missed shot over the AD any time. What works best for you may not be in my best interest.
If my mistake gets you off your game, you need to work on your game.

Hate them!

JC(AL)

I much prefer manual safety but i can do all right with auto! I saw a manual safety double on one of the internet guns for sale sites referred to as an adult safety! Bobby

Sounds like one of my ads.
"Blue Fury"
Feel better now, Teddy boy?
Actually I have no problem with the world but auto safeties are annoying.

I wonder if "blue rage" is related to "blue fury", like I typed, and which is more angry at the world and auto safetys?

Best,
Ted

When I took hunter safety class many moons ago we were taught to carry the gun on safe all the time. When a shot at game came along you were to switch the safety off as you brought the gun to your shoulder. It takes only a fraction of the time to switch the safety off as it does to mount the gun. I have gained this habit and it is subconscious for me. Because of this I think the auto safety is an asset and not a liability. I've always been suprised at the gun writers cussing the auto safety in their write ups on the new doubles they were trying.

I assume that all those folks who "Forget" to push the safety off on the range are those who are in the "Habit" of shooting with a non-auto safety & for whatever reason was shooting that day with an Auto-Safe.
The part that "Absolutely Totally Amazes" me is how anyone believes they can "Habitulaity" shoot 1,000:1 / 5,000:1 shots without "Ever" moving a safety & then loudly proclaim they are "Above Forgetting" to set one in the field.
We learn by "Rote" "Habit Prevails". Nuff said.

Well 2-pipes, you have just been Absolutely Totally Amazed. I never forget to reset the safety in the field. Just like I can use a two trigger gun and then a single trigger gun. A SxS(mostly) and then a pump. If one doesn't have a good understanding of their equipment, they probably should not be using a gun. This is one of the few things you and I disagree on. I also suspect you do not shoot much skeet, trap or other clay target games. Am I wrong, there?
Much like the people who claim they shoot skeet and call for the bird with the safety on and/or put the safety on before loading the gun on the target range. They do not do very much of it.

I'm not as adaptable as some and the one gun I had with an auto safety was a constant annoyance as I was always checking to see what state the safety was in. Safety's a function of the user's brain, not doo-dads and switches, and my soft brain appreciates consistency of operation.

After getting into clay bird shooting with an O/U, when waterfowling with an auto I found my thumb moving toward the safety for an instant then my finger woke up and found the button, but the bird-focus was gone.

Jim Legg, I try to change my clay target shooting in September to safety-on, and make the click when the target is in the air.

You guys mention pumps/autos; how about no rifle I've owned had an auto safety.

I have both and handle a gun under the Ronald Regan theory of international relations: trust but verify. I usually carry a gun open in the field anyway, pump or double. When shooting clays they really are a PIA but, unfortunately, I don't do that much these days. For a field gun, I would have to say I prefer them but it's not a big thing either way. On many doubles they are easy to de-activate but I'm not sure about the one in question.

If some old fart at your club was inclined to discretely place your manual safety on, or to sometimes remove (and hide) the bolt handle on your 391 you'd soon learn not to be distracted by an autosafety.......or any other distraction.

You know this guy - he's the one who tosses an empty in your field of view just before you call "pull". When you miss a target he laughs like the witch in "The Wizard of Oz". Don't tell me you guys don't know this person.

Sadly, our's passed on recently - I really miss him.

Sam

Pipes,
Put me in this camp too. I have shot many, many thousands of clay birds with guns with safety off always. I have also shot thousands of birds in the field. But, I NEVER forget a safety in the field. I not only shoot single and double triggers, but I shoot a release/pull for Trapshooting and International Bunker. I can go from a modern tournament gun to a 100 year old gun with automatic safety and double triggers in successive rounds with no problem.
But, I was taught and always stressed to myself the basics. Where is the muzzle, where is the safety, check the shells in the chamber, etc. I have done these checks continually for so long, it is almost compulsive behavior. I would be very uncomfortable not doing it.
Jake

Auto safeties on break open guns, non auto safeties on pumps & autos. Just the way I learned them, and that makes it safer for everyone.

The only break open I had with non auto safety was a 20 ga Superpose ... I fixed it.

Watching a demo of two guns and a loader aka 'two gun tango' the presenter said the 'gun' always operates the safety. The loader is not supposed to work the safety. Implication was that the gun is expected to put it on safe, which is what was done, but he did not say that, exactly. The gun is sometimes passed to the loader after a single shot, so it would dump the unfired shell if opened and passed muzzles up as they demonstrated. Shooters are in a line, the loader is behind, and the space is limited, so passing guns muzzles up through the line appeared to be the only practical safe way. Other circumstances would probably allow the guns to be loaded and passed diffently.