I reload with WinAA hulls and American Select powder, and want to make some spreader loads for a fixed choke (M/F) SxS. BPI does not have any recipes for their spreader wads (Brush, Light Brush or Disperser) using that powder/hull combo.

Anyone here have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance, Doverham

Buy some Polywad discs. Reduce your normal shot charge by 1/4 ounce. Place the disc on top of the shot. Place 1/8 ounce of shot on top of the disc and crimp as usual. Your final spreader load will be 1/8 ounce lighter than your pet load.

Mike has an excellent photo comparision of various spreader load techniques at the 16 ga. forum in the ammo-reloading secion. It's a recent thread concerning spreader loads. Gil

My 12g spreaders are 7/8 oz, dropped in a 1 0z wad. polywad yellow disk on top. Crimped normally. Used to use same powder charge as no spreader, recently dropped one powder bushing for the spreaders.

Mikes post on 16 G is the best I have seen on spreaders. I don't use mine much, crazy short targets on a clays course that's all. When the target needs one they are nice to have.

Boats

I have had good spreader loads by cutting over shot cards (OSC's ) halfway and inserting them into each other to form an X. The X is place in the shot cup or if you use card and fiber wads, on top of the last filler wad. The shot is then put in as normal. I have opened tight full to mod and tight mod to IC using the X and card and fiber wads.

Don't know if you have the BPI "Advantages" book, but they discuss the Extreme spreader usage. Push the spreader into the top of your favorite load. It displaces a little under 1/8 oz. of shot. Do you have a good 1 1/8 oz load using your hulls/powder? You will end up with about a 1 oz. load.

Thanks for the feedback. I am currently loading a 1oz load in the WinAA hulls, so an insert might force me down to 7/8 oz. Not the end of the world but I am trying to see if there are any other options before going that route. I may try loading some of the BPI Brush Wads and send them out for testing. If I do, I post the results here.

I did some comparison patterning of various spreader loads a while back, and found the Polywad shells threw the most open patterns but I found the pattern distribution were not as effective as some other spreader shells. It would be interesting to see if the results differed using a Polywad insert in another load.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...8662#Post338662

I liked the results Mike Campbell posted on the 16 ga. forum using the Polywad insert and loading 1/8 Oz. on top of the insert rather than all shot underneath. I don't know what quarry you are pursuing, but if you drop down a shot size, you'll more than compensate number wise for the loss of an 1/8 oz. In that the shot will be closer, the smaller shot will not lose as much energy at the distance intended as opposed to using it on longer shots. Gil

Doverham,

About 10 years ago I loaded 1 oz 7 1/2 Magnum shot with the BP LB12 wad + overshot wad in AA hulls w/23.5 gr PB as per the BP "High Performance Loads for Clays" manual.

I don't have any specific performance data to give you other than my notes in the manual say "Not Worth The Effort". If I remember correctly I was trying to improve grouse & woodcock range performance in a gun that was choked .010" & .020".

Since RST came out with their spreader loads I've stuck with that for most of my grouse & woodcock hunting. It doesn't open the pattern dramatically but it does give a very even distribution of shot w/o dense centers.

A couple points:

1) you don't have to sacrifice any shot. You can concoct a spreader in any payload size that is acceptable for the gauge. You just need to select a starting recipe for a load 1/8 ounce larger than your goal. If you're using 1 ounce regularly and want a 1 ounce spreader, peruse the data for a 1 & 1/8 ounce recipe using your favorite components (you may have to change the wad) and delivering the velocity/pressure you want.

2) you can't have your cake and eat it too. Recognize that a spreader load is not a panacea but actually just a solution to a problem with a fairly narrow set of parameters.

Most patterns are of normal distribution...meaning the pattern density is greater in the center and thins towards the fringes. It's this hot core that allows a cylinder choke to obliterate targets at very close range and actually break some targets with authority at 50 yards.

If I introduce a systematic error that will disrupt the pattern and skew the pellet distribution, like a foreign object in the shot column I can ruin the normal distribution. If I use something that not only disrupts and spreads the hot core, but creates large and unpredictable voids in the pattern, I've ruined it to the point of uselessness.

The goal is to move some of the pellets from the hot core toward the outer edges, thus a) increasing the effective pattern diameter (helping to hit the target) while b) diminishing the likelihood of mangling a centered target. I’m searching here for the mythical “even pattern”, a result often alluded to but virtually nonexistent.
Obviously, (a) is a worthy goal for target shooting...every chipped target is scored an X.
But, (b) is non-essential for target shooting and, IMO, not justification for hunting with spreaders which, I believe, carries too high a risk of crippling game and, worse, injuring a dog.

Back to point (2)....spreaders have a narrower range of effectiveness than a cylinder choke, but within that range they can be even more useful.

As a hypothetical example, assume a cylinder pattern that has optimal spread:density at 20 yds. At 10-15 yds it will obviously have more than adequate density but the spread will be smaller, making it a bit tougher to hit the target. At 25-30 yds the pattern will obviously be wider but thin enough at the edges that the effective pattern is no larger; maybe even smaller but, by virtue of core density, still capable of breaking the target with a well-centered pattern. So, the ideal range of a cylinder choke might cover 15-30 yds.

A well-concocted spreader pattern can be significantly wider than a cylinder pattern at 15 yards and have near-optimum density throughout. But, because of the thinner core density, if it’s optimum at 15 yards it may be inferior at only 25 yards and totally useless at 30 yards.

The only way to know to know a spreader’s performance is to test...your concoction in your gun at your preferred distance. Don’t fall for the casual “ expect one choke difference and only from a tightly choked gun,” or “don’t expect to open to more than IC from a Full choke.” Choke performance has conventionally been discussed as a percentage in a 30” circle at 40 yds. Good enough for mathematical comparisons but wholly irrelevant to real world shooting. It’s absolutely imperative to pattern spreaders at the distance you will shoot, and limit shots to a narrow range or be prepared for disappointment.

Good stuff Mike.
The 1/8oz on top is a real winner.

Thanks Mike - all excellent and helpful points to keep in mind. The intended use here is sporting clays. The gun in question currently patterns my reloads at 91% at 30 yds (R) and 84% at 40 yds (L). Based on the principles you discuss, I am concerned that the Polywad insert may not produce a pattern that would still be useful at longer ranges (30+ yards) - though the only way to confirm that is to load and pattern.

Doverham,

Another option from Ballistic Products is the PISK (Piston Skeet) wad. It's not a spreader but it does move some of the shot from the center of the pattern to the periphery thus increasing the effectiveness of the pattern at close to moderate ranges.

I've loaded a lot of these in AA & STS hulls using 1oz & Clays or 700X as per the BP manual. They do seem to help with tightly choked guns for sporting clays & they don't add any steps to the loading process which is important to me for volume loading. I have no data in any of my manuals for American Select with this wad.

As previously mentioned you won't know w/o patterning & the distribution of shot within the pattern at a given yardage needs to be considered just as much as pattern percentage.

I don't think you will get good 30 yard results out of the Polywad. Might with load development, likely to be more trouble than it's worth. load mine with 7 1/2 for Rabbit targets, one course I shoot throws a true pair Rabbit off the same arm from a manual trap. 2nd shot at least 30 yards. Use the Polywad right barrel regular shell left.

Something we have not mentioned is shot size. If I was going to shoot skeet with one of my tight choked guns would make up spreaders with # 9. Compensate for pattern holes with more pellets. Would also be useful for very close sporting targets. Close to the trap dont need large shot or many pellets to break one. For me another load would make shell selection to complicated, loose target focus.

I sent some loads to Precision Reloading for testing and thought I would share the results.
Win AA Hulls + Win 209 Primer + BPI Brush Wad + 1 oz 7.5s + overshot card. The five shot averages follow:

18.5 grains AmSel = 1242 fps/9680 psi (extreme variation of 23 fps and 1360 psi)
20.5 grains AmSel = 1317 fps/11,024 psi (extreme variation of 39 fps and 1260 psi; close but not exceeding SAAMI MAP)
22 grains AmSel = exceeded SAAMI MAP (11,500)

I also tested one set with Rem 209P primers, with the following results:
19.5 grains AmSel = 1262 fps/8980 psi (extreme variation of 31 fps and 1570 psi)

Based on this, I think the set with the Rem 209P primers and 19.5 gr. AmSel is what I will try patterning. I will post those results when I find some time to get to the patterning board.