hello,
English boxlock top strap.On this top strap,to the right of the top lever, there appears to be a small hole through the strap. I only have a photo at this stage but it looks original to the gun.I have not seen this before,can anyone identify?
I do not have the ability to post the images( I have been trying) if anyone could help.
I would appreciate any assistance,
thank you. mrwmartin
Sure, I'll help you post. My email is in my Profile.
thanks,will organise now.
Here you go. Obviously the hole is original to the gun as the engraving goes around it.
That hole isn't threaded, is it? Syracuse Lefevers have a threaded hole on the top strap in about that position longitudinally, but it is centered in the top strap and normally hidden under the top lever. There is a slotted set screw that, when run in, disables the safety when the gun is broken open and cocked. I've seen several Lefevers that have this screw hole, but the screw is missing.
hello Keith,
Im afraid I only have pictures at the moment but that is interesting info you have provided.
cheers
mrwmartin
Could it have been for the stub on the top lever spring?
Hello Joe,
I am puzzled what it could be for, I havent seen anything similar and I have seen and handled a lot of basic boxlocks over the years. Hopefully someone will be aware of its use and enlighten me. It is probably very obvious!
cheers
mrwmartin
Hell Stan,
Oil hole sounds a feasible use but I am puzzled why I
havent came across this before. Thanks for input.
cheers
mrwmartin
Have you tried putting a thin rod/pin in the hole?.does it bottom out on something?, could it be like an auto safety deactivator?
Ooops, I see you dont have the Gun yet..it looks pretty nice, what is it?,
keep us posted
cheers
franc
Could it have been for the stub on the top lever spring?
It is in about the right location for that, I think that Joe is right. Not sure why it goes all the way thru to the top, though...
hello Franc Otte,
I have emailed to you some more pics and info.
cheers
mrwmartin
Odd one that . and I have no definite answer but wager it has something to do with the top lever spring . Only real way to find out is to drop the stock off .
Theory , Top lever spring stud hole drilled to deep and has broken through on polishing , engraver knowing no better engraved around it .
Hello gunman,
Interesting theory. I have been hoping yourself or others with experience would provide a definitive answer.
Thanks for input,
cheers
mrwmartin
The hole is most likely either the peg hole for the toplever spring (near enough correct position) or a pin hole for a retainer/guide pin from the safety pushrod which is often pinned to the underside of the top strap.
Usually these are blind holes but I have seen several guns over the years with through holes and the pin sitting flush with the external surface of the metal.
It is not an oil hole! Whatever you do, do not squirt oil into any hole or crevice in your British shotgun, it will ruin the wood.
If it is either of the holes as I describe above, it shows that the original pin has backed out of its hole which is not a good thing but maybe not catastrophic. Only a strip down will show.
Hello Toby,
Yes, your ideas sound feasible and if I purchase the gun I will get it looked into. The last thing i need is another moneypit! I am well aware of the oil dangers but it doesnt do any harm to repeat the message. I hope to inspect the gun in the flesh fairly soon.
Thanks for the suggestions and input.
cheers
mrwmartin
I would think that a toplever spring in that particular location would interfere with the safety pushrod which is typically found directly under the topstrap. Also, if it was a peg hole for the toplever spring, one leg of the spring would bear upon the underside of the toplever, and the other leg would also have to bear against something in order to create spring tension to return the toplever to center. What would there be in this location to bear against besides wood? While I certainly haven't seen every shotgun action design in the world, I would be very surprised if this hole had anything to do with a toplever spring. I also agree that it is not an oil hole.
Hello Keith,
Thank you for the informative post offering a different insight.If we are to eliminate top lever spring where does that lead us?
cheers
mrwmartin
I tend to think it has something to do with the safety pushrod. I mentioned earlier that I thought it could have something to do with a means of deactivating the safety. Toby Barclay also mentioned the possibility of this being a pin hole for a safety pushrod retainer/guidepin, and that makes sense to me. But I can't imagine why it would not be a blind hole if that was the case. I'd think if it was inadvertently drilled clear through, the maker would have simply welded it closed and tried again, rather than leave a glaring mistake on the topstrap. Again, I could be 100% wrong, and have not seen every shotgun's innards to say for sure. Do you know what make it is?
Hello again Keith,
The gun is a William Horton, Glasgow. The top rib address dates it to 1900-1913ish. I have a selection of pics ,if you provide a contact email I can send to you.
cheers
mrwmartin
I would think that a toplever spring in that particular location would interfere with the safety pushrod which is typically found directly under the topstrap. Also, if it was a peg hole for the toplever spring, one leg of the spring would bear upon the underside of the toplever, and the other leg would also have to bear against something in order to create spring tension to return the toplever to center. What would there be in this location to bear against besides wood? While I certainly haven't seen every shotgun action design in the world, I would be very surprised if this hole had anything to do with a toplever spring. I also agree that it is not an oil hole.
Hi Keith,
All of my British guns have Greener lever work, and this gun has a Scott Spindle, so I am not sure about this one. But on mine the top lever spring is situated with the narrow portion of the V to the rear. The right leg of the spring is fitted into a slot in the back of the action body, and the left leg acts upon a lobe projecting from the top lever mechanism. The pin (peg) serves to keep the rear of the spring properly located.
And on my modest quality guns, the safety push rod lies under the top lever spring, and it returns the safety button to the 'safe' position by contacting the rear surface of the under bolt when it is retracted.
redoak, I could see how that would work. Thanks for telling me about it. Most toplever springs that I am familiar with have pretty short limbs, and are not located directly under the topstrap, so this seemed a bit unlikely to me. But I'm always willing to learn something. I still can't understand why the maker would have made the spring peg hole clear through the topstrap. Understandable on a cheap gun perhaps, but this one looks like it has some quality. I hope Mr Martin gets the gun and we eventually get the answer.
Keith,
I do not understand the hole coming thru the top either.
But the location suggests to me that it is a top lever peg hole.
Perhaps Toby had the answer, that the top of the peg is supposed to be flush with the top of the strap. And in this case, maybe it has slipped down out of position a bit.
Hello all,
The gun is soon to be sent to my local firearm dealer for a 72 hour inspection period. I showed the dealer(a friend with many years experience of British guns) the photo.His first thought is in agreement with those of you above re the top lever spring peg theory.He demonstrated with springs and parts in his workshop, I now understand the possible scenarios.He agrees they are almost exclusively blind but has seen,in the past, pins through and flush with the strap(similar to the pin at the rear of safety in photo) We will hopefully have the answer soon(and hopefully a relatively easy fix). Many thanks to all, mrwmartin
I would think that a toplever spring in that particular location would interfere with the safety pushrod which is typically found directly under the topstrap. Also, if it was a peg hole for the toplever spring, one leg of the spring would bear upon the underside of the toplever, and the other leg would also have to bear against something in order to create spring tension to return the toplever to center. What would there be in this location to bear against besides wood? While I certainly haven't seen every shotgun action design in the world, I would be very surprised if this hole had anything to do with a toplever spring. I also agree that it is not an oil hole.
The spring would bare against the lever boss or cam one one side and locate in a slot in the back of the action on the other limb or as on a Purdey or Greener the spring has a hole at the end of the limb and is held in place with a screw into the strap..
Hello all,
Still awaiting delivery of the gun.I have found (on an American website) a photo of Horton gun with the pin head clearly showing, albeit on the left side of top lever.
I am attempting to post a clear and large photo.
cheers
mrwmartin
here's Mr. Martin's other Horton
Thank you kindly,
mrwmartin
Dr Martin, (oops, Freudian slip..no bovver,lol)
So that looks like a wee screw for sure, but as you said, on the other side.
So does that mean the gun your getting has lost its screw, it would seem so ?
You'd think that would make something not work properly...
Hope its nothing major...those Hortons look like nice guns..
thank you for those e pics
& hope its a keeper mate,
cheers
franc
Hello Franc,
I have shown the new picture to my gunsmith and he is now of the opinion it is in connection with the safety rod, which has been suggested here earlier.This eliminates the drilled in error theory. Either the pin is broken or has slipped out ( another "slip"). It should be a relatively straight forward job to repair or replace (his words, not mine). I am awaiting delivery of the gun.Thanks for the interest.
cheers,
MRwmartin
Hello all,
Update: I am still awaiting delivery, it appears there is a problem with new transfer and posting regulations re firearms.
cheers
mrwmartin
