Hi Folks. I have been reading this forum for a few years now. I am an avid upland hunter living in western Canada. I have been searching for a Fox 20 gauge (Philly) for some time now. I found a private sale Sterlingwoth this week that dates from 1914. However it has a few issues and I would appreciate input on whether or not they may be difficult or very costly to repair. The first issue is a small dent in the right barrel. It is not a crease, it is a small round indentation but still visible when sighting down the inside of the barrel. The second issue is that when the lever is pushed over to the right to open the action, the lever goes back to center while the action is open making it necessary to move the lever to close the action. Other than those 2 issues the bores are gleaming, the screws appear unmolested and the case colour is very good. The stock is in good shape, but has a 3 inch drop at heel and is 13.5 inches from front trigger to pad. The seller is asking $1200 for it which I,m sure is negotiable. Do you think that the repair costs I might incur would make this a poor buy? I have seen some pretty high prices for 20 bores recently and they are very rare in my area. For me to import one from the U.S. is prohibitive due to the poor Canadian dollar. Would a Sterlingworth of that vintage have come stock with 2.5 inch chambers. wasn't able to measure them when I viewed the gun. Thanks for any advise that you could provide.

the fixes are no big deal to any good double gunsmith..the lever is usually a broken or missing small spring, or worst case a small worn part that is easy to fabricate......the dent is easy to remove but will leave a mark....then you have to decide to just live with the mark, have the spot touched up, or the barrels completely re-blued.....and yes it would of left the factory with short chambers.....

Both of those issues are not uncommon, and are easily corrected. IMO, $1200 is not really high, but I would certainly try to buy it for as much less than that as I could. If there are really no other issues with it, you should be able to get those two items sorted out for somewhere in the $300+ range. I had the exact same two things corrected on a Fox a couple years ago.

SRH

the dent - if no creases should be a simple task for a "qualified" gunsmith

the lever issue sounds like a broken or missing spring that goes under the floorplate screw- its often lost when the screw is removed by someone who doesn't know it there and does not watch for it. a small coil spring is what you need, i once replaced one using the spring from a ball point pen.

yes it is likely short chambers

Tim, welcome aboard. You are Canadian. Ignore what others say here about the probable cost of repairs. It's Canada and it's a very different double gun market than the US, for purchase prices and repairs.

I agree about the simplicity of repairs with the other posters but be very selective about who you get to do the work. I don't know where in the west you are so can't recommend anyone that might be near you at the moment except some guys in Kelowna.

Hey James ,you could recommend some way out east if you like

Newf does wonderful work at reasonable price.

Chris, before I give him your contact info I need to find out if he speaks Newfoundland. He may not be bilingual.

Stan, $1200 up here is equivalent to $850 USD. It's a pretty good price for a SW 20 gauge. Although that is said with no knowledge of the specific gun except as posted originally.

I figured you were just distracted by that swoon Les Canadiens are in c-back. They better get Price back quick. Sorry for the hijack Tim. I gave you three stars. Two for a good first post and one for Canadian politeness.



______________________
Hockey and golf are the two greatest sports ever invented.

Thanks to all that have replied so far and for the welcome. In true Canadian fashion I just got back from watching the local Jr hockey game.
It sounds like the repair for the dent and possibly the fix for the top lever having to be operated to close the gun may not be so bad after all. Sourcing 2 1/2 inch shells would be nearly impossible. Pity that RST does not sell in Canada. I could get the chambers lengthened at the same time as other repairs if I buy this gun. Has anyone been successful in bending a stock upwards for less D.A.H.in such old wood or is it better to budget for a new stock.
Canvasback, who would you recommend for repairs in Kelowna. Newf, I will look up your info, sounds like you have some fans on this forum. Cheers all.

I think you will find that you can obtain 20 bore 2 1/2" cartridges, in Canada through Kent Gamebore Canada.
Phone:(800) 844-1880
Fax:(905) 294-4921
E-mail: kentc@kentgamebore.com
I have found that European Arms ( http://www.euroarms.com ) in North Vancouver certainly stocks their 12 bore 2 1/2" loads, and I would think they would have 20 bore as well.
Finally, out here on the west coast, Stuart, of S J Newby Gunsmiths Ltd. (Half Moon Bay BC 604-740-3725) is an excellent double gunsmith.

I'd say it'd be a good buy in the States . . . but only for someone who can live with those stock dimensions. By the time I made it longer, there would be over 3" drop at heel. Wouldn't work for me. So I'd have to add in a semi-inletted stock plus someone to do the final fitting plus the repairs.

Right0- you Newfie you!!

Hi Tim:

The LOP - 13-1/2", over a pad, would probably put me off the gun.

There is good parts availability in the US, Pumpkin Mountain having a large inventory of new-old-stock parts from the Fox factory. As I understand it it is difficult to ship gun parts across international borders.

I don't know the market for Sterlingwortth 20s in Canada but I would look some more before I bought that one.

I am a Fox fan and, like you, an avid upland hunter.

Best,

Mike

Edit: I reread your post again. If that LOP is 13-1/2" to the end of the wood then yes, I would buy the gun. If that 13-1/2" LOP is over the pad I would look some more.

Hi Tim, welcome aboard.
Sounds like it could be a nice gun, and as you mentioned, 20 gauges don't come up all that often here.
2 1/2" Kent gamebore shells are available. If you can't find them in stock, pretty much anyone who handles Kent can order them for you if they want to make the effort.
I'd just pay the mailing cost and send the gun to Newf depending on what you want done and if he will take it on. I can vouch for his work more than once. In fact he's getting another gun of mine next week.

However Tim, I will say this. Sometimes in Canada it is difficult to find one person who will/can repair everything that a vintage gun may need, at least to be done properly. So sending it to more than one person may be required at times which is something that you have to anticipate when working on these vintage guns in this country. Not saying your gun is not repairable by one person as it doesn't sound that drastic. Just a heads up when venturing into the vintage gun arena if you plan on having work done.

What's the law read for Canadians to purchase shotgun shells in the USA to take back to Canada? I know we can take 10 boxes to Canada, when we go waterfowl hunting in AB or SK. There is a local store that sells the RST ammo, last time I checked, and if close to the US border, perhaps on a trip down sometime, pick some up, if it's this area. I think on the RST website it says who the vendors are for their product, so if you're closer to WA State there may be some RST vendors in the Okanagan Valley.

I see BC and AB license plates here all the time, shopping in CDA.

To legally purchase ammunition in the US an alien must have a US hunting license( license can be from anywhere in the US and any kind of hunting license) . I am unsure about the amounts that may be brought back but a quick check with Canadian Customs would clear that up. Last time I went through Canadian customs I had 5 lbs of powder. I was quizzed by the Canadian Customs if I had an export license but explained I had a hunting license and away I went.

You can't export shotshells from the US without the dealer getting an export permit. For all intents and purposes making it impossible to do legally. Canada Customs doesn't care, it's US customs on the way out. And if they get a sniff you hunt or shoot, they will be looking.

regarding export of ammo from US to Canada: Canadian law allows for import of a significant quantity without a permit, but the US requires an export permit. As Tamid experienced, unlikely that Canadian Customs would be concerned about the US export permit being in order. The chance of getting checked by US customs on departure is clearly very low, but departure checks do occur and I would imagine that the potential consequences could be extremely unpleasant.

If on a hunting trip I wouldn't think a small quantity left over would attract any attention coming back.

Would be great if someone picked up distribution of RST in Canada, but on the other hand with the current exchange rate it would make for pricy shooting. I recently bought a 2 1/2" gun and after looking at the limited options in Canada, decided to try my hand at reloading.

I realised that I made an error in my original post. I should have said 13 1/2" to the butt plate from the front trigger. Adding an appropriate pad might make the L.O.P. just right for me. I like a fairly short stock anyways.
I have shot an Ithaca 200 with 25" barrels for over 30 years on grouse but I shoot my longer barreled guns better.
What got me thinking about the Fox 20 in the first place was that I took my Dad who is 86 out for a family clay shoot a while back and I shot his Ithaca 16 which is probably close to 100 years old and I realized just how beautifully some of the old doubles handle. We had 3 generations of family shooting that day. And I am really pleased to report that the old boy can still shoots his 16 well. He certainly is not ready to hang up his grouse gun yet although his balance no longer allows him to hike for upland birds.
As I get older it is not about trying to fill a limit as it was in my earlier hunting years. For me now it is about tradition and time spent with bird dogs and my hunting partner of 40 years. I am intrigued by the thought of giving new life to a gun that has most likely sat in the back of a closet for many, many years.

And to me that is the way it should be, both with the aspiration of the hunt and of saving old guns.

Do not underestimate the enthusiasm for which American ATF and Customs agents pursue the illegal EXPORT of ammunition. They have been observed writing down plate numbers at gun shows and big box hunting retailers so that they can follow up with a more detailed examination as you attempt to leave the country. Given the penalties it is a high risk activity with a downside far worse than the potential upside.

As noted, the Canadian authorities couldn't care less unless it is more than the 5000 round limit.

I have actually contacted RST about export to Canada (I was a sporting goods distributor for many years) and they were not interested in the headaches involved with export. Happy just servicing the US market.

Tim, Gunsaholic and I have walked this path numerous times before. It can be extremely frustrating due to the limited resources up here compared to the US. But I think I can speak for both Brian and I when I say it can also be very satisfying. PM either of us anytime for Canadian specific issues. We'd both be happy to help.

Yes, anytime!