I'm on what has become my annual quest for a new gun. Ugartechea has come up on my radar. Having only had one in my hands, I'd be interested in what others might have to say about these guns. I'm looking at buying a Grade II from Lion Country, specs for a 12 ga. are about what I prefer. I've looked at used, but most are M/F chocked and I really like open chokes. Perhaps you could share your experiences and thoughts, good, bad and ugly (no pun intended).

Hi, I've owned a couple of Uggies over the years and my current Uggie a Model 1030 in 16ga is a delight. Never had a problem with any of them, except I did have a Model 30 that had soft firing pins, sold that one (after it was fixed) for an upgrade. They are very good quality guns and are well worth the $$$. The wood can be fairly plain compared to other Spanish makers, but that's just cosmetic. To be honest you'd do just fine with a Uggie.

As far as chokes go, you'd have to look around for one that has the chokes you want or just open them up.

Good luck in your quest. Half the fun is looking!

Greg

I have an I. Ugartechea Falcon which Ted Schefelbein educated me about. As I recall, they were a Model 30 upgrade version imported in the 1970's. Lion Country has one in their used listings for $1050.00, and it looks like the fit and finish is somewhat better than the new Grade II you are interested in. Did you see the major flaw(s) in the forearm checkering in their pictures of the Grade II? Here's a link to the used Falcon. Scroll about 1/4 way down the page through the used guns.

http://www.doubleshotguns.com/used-shotguns-side-by-side.html

The description says that this gun was originally bought in the early 1980's. I believe they were actually imported in the early 1970's and the white line buttplate and pistol grip spacers kind of confirm that. The Falcons have 3" chambers. I haven't used mine a great deal, but it has always worked flawlessly, and it makes a nice alternative to my vintage doubles when I have a bunch of modern ammunition to burn up. I bought mine 5-6 yrs. ago at a gun show from a guy who was walking it around. For $225.00, it was too hard to pass up.

Keith,
Educated is far too generous a term for those conversations we had.
I just stumbled into the information before you did. I still have my Uggy, used it on day trips a few times this fall. No complaints. If I was to take a clean sheet of paper and design a nice Spanish boxlock for myself, it would end up looking a lot like a model 30, or a Falcon.
A guy could do a lot worse than an Uggy.

Best,
Ted

Like Greg I have a 20 ga 1030 and it is a fine double in every respect.I have an early 119 28 gauge and it is fine! Bobby

I've got two grade II's - 28 gauge and .410 bore. No issues with either but I bought both used for about 60% of the new price. I buy all of my guns used and if they need choke work they go for a visit to Mike Orlen.

Two Uggies here. One is an AOC/SG boxlock .410. The other is a sidelock 20 with 30" barrels made for the Brit market. Both are English grip/DT/splinter with checkered butts, oil finish, and very nice wood. The .410 is case colored and the 20 is coin finished. They are very nicely finished. The chokes on the .410 are marked IC/Mod, but my recollection is that they mic at .011/.017", so a bit tight for IC/Mod in a .410. Good value, there is no ugly.

I also have an AOC/SG Uggie, which is an upgraded version. 20ga, 28", IC/M. There are enough Uggies on the used market, in very good shape, that I'd suggest looking for what you want and having chokes opened to suit (which is not an expensive proposition). You'll come out way ahead $-wise.

Cobbhead,
I also had a Uggie 20ga Bill Hanus gun years ago. VERY nice gun with nice wood. It was one to be proud of. The Falcon that Keith linked looks very nice. Would look excellent with the white line spacers removed. It had your chokes also. A 6.55lb 12ga should be pretty sweet.

Keith also pointed out the checkering on that GR2. If that is the quality of the current 2k$ guns, I'd make a wide path with craftsmanship that bad. What kills me is they put that as an example on their web site. It's as if they are saying you people are to stupid to know what your looking at. WT heck!

Nope Ted, educated is the appropriate term. I owned that gun for several years and knew virtually nothing about it until you shared your knowledge. I had spent some time searching for information on that shotgun and had come up empty handed. Credit where credit's due.

I also wasn't familiar with the Grade II Ugartechea guns, and was a little surprised at the difference between it and the used Falcon that Lion Country had. If you look at the close-up photo of the action, it is easy to see it is not as nicely finished or engraved as the earlier Falcon model. The checkering is cut checkering, but poorly executed. I prefer the color case hardening too. I have to wonder, if the level of fit and finish on the outside has declined that much, can the same be said about the insides? This is what another guy had to say about that on Shotgun World, comparing a Falcon to a Grade I:

"I have owned and own a few other Ugartechea boxlocks. There is no doubt in my mind more work went into the Falcons than the model 30, 40 or the present day Grade I.

Better fit and finish; 22 lpi checkering and more engraving. Plus, it has the third lockup in the breech face, dropped by Ugartechea and other makers, after about 1986 as a cost savings."

Some folks don't like to buy used guns, but I would consider a good lightly used Falcon at a fraction of the price of the brand new Grade II. I've seen a number of nice ones on Gunbroker selling for $400-$1000. I feel lucky about the price I paid for mine, and I was lucky enough to get one with above average figure in the wood.

I have had a Grade II for about ten years. I probably shoot it an average of 500-800 rounds per year, sometimes more. I love it.

The only issue I ever had was when I first bought it. The safety was too light and would reset from recoil after the first shot. I sent it back to the LCS gunsmith, and it came back horribly, ridiculously stiff and gritty feeling. Sent it back again, and it still wasn't right. Eventually I decided to pay Griffin & Howe to fix it and never had a problem since.

Photos of my Falcon, 1972 vintage, I believe:





Things to like. Disc set strikers, something I never thought about until a friends W & S model 700 broke an integral hammer/striker on the opening day of pheasant season. And another friends Westley Richards did the same thing, later that same season. Hidden 3rd fastener, 28" barrels, 12 gauge, and 76mm proof. It has brazed barrels, not sure if that is a plus or not, but, it is what it is. Feed it anything within reason. My gun is fairly light, maybe 6 1/2 lbs, so I don't get too nuts with ammunition, but, it will eat almost all the stuff that Wal Mart or Pamida have sitting around. Double triggers and no ejectors, 28" barrels with the chokes opened to about CYL and IC, I use it alot when hunting with guys who have unruly dogs. The stock is a nice, open, pistol grip, more like a straight stock, and the semi-beavertail is tight, and well fitted, and checkered. The gold triggers and white line spacers HAD to go, lest I not be able to keep lunch down, but, it is a really sound and useful gun that I will feed steel through, with no second thoughts, when that time comes. I have spare strikers and the tool to put 'em in should the need arise, but, the old girl just keeps chugging along.
Cole Haugh did some work on it when I got it, and sold me the tool and the strikers. I have a little tool kit that can come along on longer trips, but, have never needed it.
If the gun was stolen or lost, I'd be bummed, but, not terribly so. It is good to have some guns that are tools, reliable, and not so expensive or valuable you worry about them every minute they are out of the safe.


Best,
Ted

There are several inexpensive (less than $1000) Ugartechea and AyA box lock gun up on Gun Broker right now. You might want to give them a look.

Good to see you, Kyrie. BTW, I'm still looking!


Best,
Ted

Kyrie, do you see any good deals on Spanish sidelocks??

PM sent

Thanks Kyrie!!!

I've been looking at this one for a long time especially with a usable, too me anyway, LOP.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100563568

Any additional information on this maker?

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100626930


And Cobbhead might like this one also.

Treb,
That 1st gun looks good! What the heck are you searching to find the odd balls?

I know Bill, who has ever heard of a Beristain Buffalo!!!!! Except Kyrie.

That Spaniard should fit me perfectly with its sub 14 inch LOP and its weight is near perfect. I guess I keep thinking there is another one that's even better just around the corner.

You’re very welcome :-)

Armas Ego was quite well known in Spain, and produced the usual array of guns made to every price point at which a market existed. I lust after some of their express rifles (yes, Ego made some outstanding double rifles). Ego is not well known here in the States, IMO, because unlike AyA and Ugartechea very few US retailers (e.g. Stoeger, hardware stores, etc.) bought large numbers of inexpensive box lock guns to sell cheaply here in the States. Top end guns, like that model Especial, are seldom encountered here.

The Beristain Buffalo is a little more complicated. There were two makers named Beristain in business during the same period.

Beristain y Cia had shops in both Eibar and Barcelona, and mostly sold only his own production.

Beristain, SA was located in Eibar, made some number of his own guns which he sold under his own label, and retailed under his name guns he ordered from other makers (most commonly, IME, Industrias Ilja and Armas Parkemy). He also commonly retailed guns under his name from other non-Spanish, such as Jules Thonon. “Buffalo” was one of his trademarks, and Buffalo (or Bufalo) is commonly found on guns he sold, and is frequently mistaken for the model designation of the gun.

There will be another PM on its way to you in a moment.

Kyrie, is that a pm about your new book about the Spanish gun industry that we've been waiting for to supplement Terry Wieland's previous work?

I had a Spanish sidelock built by AMR that was a real treasure. Light and well balanced.

But, who the heck has ever heard of AMR?

Ah! A. Marcos Relea (and his successor, Anchu S.L. Avancargas).

Seriously, your experience doesn’t surprise me. Here’s the thing about Spanish shotguns:

All of the makers, at any given point in time, and at any given price point, produced pretty much the same gun.

The only differences were stylistic. Within the context of time and price point it really doesn’t matter what name is on the gun, the quality (defined within the context of this statement as the number of skilled man hours in the gun) of the guns are all pretty much the same. No maker produced better guns than any other maker.

A lack of awareness of that basic business fact, and a propensity to compare guns from different price points and or different Spanish gun making eras, have contributed to the misapprehension that any one maker produced higher quality guns than any other maker.

Here is a classic example of how that worked:

Armas Ego, 1980s gun, top of the line, cannot be done today because it would have to sell at too high a price point to have much of a market:
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100626930

Same gun as above, sane era, but made by Arrieta:
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100632573

That, and similar, deep relief game scene engraving was common on top end price point guns made during a now past era of Spanish gun making. Every maker in business during that era was prepared to deliver a gun with that or similar engraving, all at pretty much the same price point.

But the misapprehension that some makers simply did better work than other has, in turn, caused any number of people to buy a name rather than a gun, and end up spending a lot of money on a name rather than a gun.

But that also is a basic business fact, in the American market for Spanish guns. So it goes.

Thanks Kyrie for the education.

Some real Spanish sleepers out there if you know where to look.

If the name on the gun is a retailer is it possible like the British guns to find out who actually built that gun?

Usually. What I tell folks is when it comes to Spanish shotguns the name on the top of the barrels is advertising, and the manufacturing data is on the bottom of the barrels. Usual practice for a retailer selling guns made by someone else is to have the retailer's name on top of the barrels, but the true maker's mark on the barrel flats and water table.

I came across a good example of this back around 2011, when a Trust Eibarres with that deep relief game scene engraving shown above on the EGO and Arrieta came up for sale. Trust Eibarres was a retailer, and an examination of that gun's barrel flats and water table turned up the real maker: Pedro Arrizabalaga.

There are exceptions to that, and Astra (Unceta y Cia) is an example of such an exception. Astra produced box lock guns in-house, but bought side lock guns from other makers and sold those side locks under the Astra label. Unceta y Cia actually required those guns to be delivered without any reference to the true maker, and stamped them as if they had been made by Astra. So it's a rare day when we can attribute any Astra side lock to any specific maker.

Have 2 Uggies, a Grade 111 in 16 ga. 28" bbls IC & M and a 12 ga. Falcon 26" bbls. IC & M. Both very good SxSs. The Grade III just went to my son as I replaced it with a Dickenson that just felt better to me. It also has tubes, come see come sigh.

The issue with Falcons, for quite a few people, is that they were imported when everyone assumed that Americans preferred pistol grips and beavertails. Maybe the Jack O'Connor influence or something. But they're certainly good guns if you're OK with those features.