E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers

Posted by: Argo44

E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/21/16 05:02 PM

Gentlemen, I am new. I am a Vietnam Vet, 2 tours, Special Forces, MACV-SOG and have spent some 25 years of the last 40 serving abroad for our country. I’m a gun enthusiast but not an expert. I recently bought an English hand-made EM Reilly, 12 ga. SxS hammer-gun shotgun after thinking about purchasing an English double for 25 years. The reason?

I served at the American Embassy in India for three years in the late 1980’s. My landlord was Indian Army Major General D.K. (Monty) Palit, former chief of operations of the India Army (during the Indo-China War), Sandhurst in the 1930’s, WWII Indian Army veteran, and noted military author. He was from an upper-class Indian family which had adopted British customs when it came to gun-sport (late 1880’s on). He had 5 doubles on his wall passed down by his father and grandfather, I believe they were: a 12ga Holland & Holland, a 12ga E.M. Reilly, a 16ga possibly Army-Navy, one I’m not sure of and a 20ga. William Evans.

I had a CJ-7 Jeep in New Delhi at that time; he had the hunting permits; and we went out often in the Falls of those three years, hunting ducks, dove and quail in the brilliant yellow mustard fields of Uttar Pradesh on the Gangetic plain. He used his H&H; I used my Remington 870 - a pump - something he informed me one didn’t do in polite society (I countered that in Alabama we might have a dog…here he had 5 shikaris and a couple of servers cleaning the birds and making duck-curry sandwiches…different places, different solutions). But the idea that I needed a SxS became fixed…even more so when he gifted my wife the 20ga William Evans as we left country. Since then I’ve held dozens of English SxS’s. Nothing felt right.

Gen. Palit's books and obituary:
https://www.amazon.com/D.-K.-Palit/e/B001IC8QPK
http://www.india-seminar.com/2008/586/586_in_memoriam.htm

Then at a gun show in November this Reilly hammer gun just stuck to my hand. It was 6 lbs 1oz, chambered for 2 1/2; 30” Damascus barrels; twin triggers; no ejectors; with that beautifully slim upper stock and receiver back that comes with hammer guns - It was similar to the General’s E.M. Reilly as I remembered it; Perhaps I had imprinted on that gun? But whatever It felt like a rapier, while everything else now seemed like battle-axes. The seller had about 15 guns from very high-quality makers. He said I was the only person ever to show interest in the Reilly. He insisted on my shooting it..I did and couldn’t part with it..It had some imperfections; it wasn’t pristine, had been worked on; I paid too much but it was my gun,

The Serial number is 34723. On the rib is the name and address of the maker, E.M Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London. I believe this shotgun was made in 1898 and it is perhaps one of the very last guns produced at the Reilly store at this location where they had worked for 51 years before they closed it (to be explained in subsequent posts).

I’m by no means an expert on English handmade doubles - there are contributors here who definitely are. However, After buying the Reilly I’ve done some research. I believe the Reilly numbering system (for long guns - hand guns had another entirely different system) from at least 1830 to 1905 was consistent, always numerically ascending (with a possible break of some 5000 SN's when the Store was transferred in 1847 per below) and that there are enough guns on the internet and enough known events associated with certain serial numbers to enable one to get a pretty good idea of when an individual Reilly was produced, possibly within a couple of years. And I’ve discovered some erroneous information which has been widely disseminated (Brown’s Vol 3 being one of them).

I thought I’d share some of these findings with this extremely knowledgeable group and with the SxS shooting community at large with a request: that owners of Reilly’s post their guns on this line, including serial numbers, Company name and address as imprinted on the guns and patent numbers if possible, and photo. With this information available in one spot surely the chronology of E.M. Reilly Serial Numbers can be refined.

I'll add three moe posts - 1) History of the firm (including various patent dates); 2) Important "date marker" serial numbersed guns; and 3) a list of 100 Reilly guns with serial numbers I've found on the internet in serial number order.

L-R: Author; Patel (who made the duck curry); General Palit, in New Delhi, November 1988:



28 years later....a Reilly SxS in memory of General Palit:'





Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/21/16 05:04 PM

First I’d like to go into who were the Reilly’s, the father Joseph Charles (J.C.) jeweler (actually silver smith) turned gun-maker and has son Edward Michael. There is a lot of speculation that the father JC and son EM were marketers rather than gun makers. I’ll disagree. Surely they were engravers (there are swords and bayonets with the Reilly name on them)(you can't be a silversmith without knowing English engraving). Yet there is a consistency to the stocks, barrels, workmanship. engraving, etc. that makes a sporting Reilly to me almost instantly recognizable. They appear to only put Serial Numbers on guns they built or which were ordered at their shops; they put their name on other guns they were marketing but not numbers.

The Reilly name was very well known in the 1800’s and their guns were regarded as not only well made, affordable, and beautiful but innovative. They attempted at least three times to win a British Army gun contract using other makers’ patents; 1853 when the Enfield was adopted, 1865 when the Snider was adopted, 1870 when the Martini Henry was adopted. (These trial dates are date markers for numbered Reilly guns per a post to follow below)…and to do so he had to have had “connections.” Their guns were modern (though one could buy a muzzle loader in 1880 or a hammer gun in 1905); and they sold every type of gun in their shops new and used; they were one of the first London shops to sell Breech loaders.

Reilly was not anonymous. They made guns for European kings including the King of Spain, King of Portugal, King of the Netherlands and Indian Rajahs. And, they were highly regarded in the gun world. They were the sole agents for American Sharps rifles (1880), for Comblain breech loaders (1867), etc. They sold used guns. They sold Tanter revolvers and other hand guns and he put his name on all sorts of guns which passed through the shops including at least one winchester, a Navy Colt, etc.

--------------------

To illustrate, here is a quote from "Karma Express," a description of a trip on the The Deccan Odyssey, one of India's most regal luxury trains:

"Afterward, we were ferried out to the palace of the maharaja of Kolhapur, a late-Victorian pile in the syncretic Indo-Saracenic style invented by the British. It was designed by the English architect Charles Mant, although Lewis Carroll might have had a hand in it.

"The maharajas were great collectors of empire's bric-a-brac. The tomblike salons exuded a Dickensian squalor and were crammed with sambar heads and taxidermic elephants in full regalia, horse racing trophies, and stuffed fantail snipes. There were lamps with deer hooves for stands, electrically illuminated peacocks, glasses with boar-tusk handles, and beautiful English guns from the London firm of E. M. Reilly.
http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2007-04-16/karma-express

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/21/16 05:05 PM

Chronology (cribbing shamelessly from trw99’s research and Roy Frossberg but adding some things): http://www.answers.com/Q/Where_can_you_f...on_serial_15346

1786 - Joseph Charles Reilly was born in 1786 in Granard, Co Longford, Ireland. At some time he moved to London.

1812, he married Martha Barkley (b.1787 in London) on 17 May 1812. They had a daughter, Elinor, and in a son, Edward Michael.

1814-1835 - he opened a business as a "jeweller" (goldsmith or silver plate - not sure) at 12 Middle Row, Holborn Bars and, as was common with jewelers in those days, he also part-exchanged, bought and sold guns. He held the Tenancy on this building from 1814 to 1835. (there is an engraving of this building from the Illustrated London News dated 1867. JC Reilly's presence at 12 Middle Row is confirmed by property records and London voting lists.

Note: I'm going to speculate. In the early 19th century Joseph Manton had raised gun making to an art form with elaborate engraving etc. I speculate that Reilly received guns from the Lawyers and country gentlemen around him to engrave...and this got him into the business...and that he began to market first pistols then went from there).

"Early in the present century, Messrs. Reily, gun makers, were established near Chancery Lane, in Holborn, where they enjoyed the patronage of members of the legal profession, besides an extensive country (gentry) connection Their premises were extensive, and afforded every facility for carrying on a large business. They adhered to the principle, that “It is not sufficient that an article be cheap; it must also bear the test of excellence.” (quotes from Wyman’s Commercial Encyclopedia) (1888).

J C Reilly guns were sometimes engraved "Holborn Bars”. Note: "Holborn Bars" likely refers to guns made at 12 Middle Row. This quote is interesting because it explains his connections: “Holborn was anciently of much consequence, not only on account of the many eminent people who resided here but because of the Inns of the Court (note: "lawyers") which graced both its north and south sides.”.” Holborn Bars used to stand a little west” … (Bar is a tax collection site…a road toll…there were six leading into London at the time on this road).

Inns of the court at Holborn, then and now:



See this site for a description of Chancery Lane and Holborn Bars and a woodcut.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/old-new-london/vol2/pp526-542

Interpretation of the Woodcut with location of Reilly's store per a map on Ancestry.com:



Note in the engraving on the top of Middle Row that stuck out into and blocked the street; Reilly's store was there. Sign says "Holborn Bars." "Inns of the Court" in the background.



1816 - Edward Michael Reilly born to Joseph Charles.

1819 - He entered a maker’s mark at Goldsmiths Hall in 1819 as a plateworker from 12 Middle Row, Holborn. (Note: I've been unable to verify this; there is a John C. Reilly from 1818-20 with a silver maker's mark; Plate would seem to indicate he worked in silver. Every goldsmith's mark is registered but I have difficulty navigating the site. Somebody in London might research this.)

1831 - The Times newspaper of 5th January 1831 reported a burglary on the 1st of January at the same address, the premises of J C Reilly, gun maker and silversmith. The value of property stolen was estimated at £150.

1834 - Note: Cannot find Reilly advertisements for guns in London newspapers before about 1834….here are two and they seem to concentrate on pistols:

-- London Morning Chronicle, 1 Sep 1834: GUNS AND PISTOLS.-J. C. REILLY has acquired an excellent assortment of SECOND HAND GUNS, chiefly In exchiange, for less than half their value…..

-- London Morning Chronicle, 15 Dec 1834: GUNS and PISTOLS.-J. C. REILLY is desirous of DISPOSING of an accumulation of' SECOND- HAND GUNS, received in exchange, at about one-third the original price…

1835 – 1847 - 1835 – 1847: JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY (known also as J C REILLY) was in business as a gunmaker at 316 High Holborn, London. Any Reilly with the High Holborn address must be 1835 to 1847

(Note: Several sources claim 316 High Holborn allegedly was the old premises of Joseph Manton; But Wikipedia reports Manton went bankrupt in 1826 and his shop on “Oxford street” was seized and his entire stock of guns were sold to Joseph Lang. He revived his firm temporarily 1827-28 it too fell into debt, and he spent 1828-29 in debtors prison - He died Jun 1835; Other sources claim Manton’s shop was on Dover Street in Holborn. So more sources are needed to support this assertation - unless Manton occupied 316 High Holborn during his attempt to revive his firm and stayed there till his death in 1835). Here are addresses for Manton per a manufacture of reproduction labels:

Joseph Manton
Davies Street, Berkeley Square, London
1795 - 1805

John Manton
6 Dover Street, London
1801 - 1815

Joseph Manton
11 Hanover Square, London
1812 - 1820

Joseph Manton
Marylebone Park House, New Road, London
1828


-- Morning Chronicle, London, 14 Aug 1835: REMOVING.- JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY will be removing at the end of this month, to the spacious premises, 316, High Hoiborn, near Chancery-lane,

1835-47: There are hundreds of advertisements by JC Reilly in various London periodicals..almost daily.. including this one from London Evening Standard, 1 February 1839: “Pistols of every description, and a large Stock of Second-hand Guns by the Mantons, Purdey, Forsyth, &c. at half price. REILLY, 316, High Holborn, near Chancery-lane.”

See: http://www.genesreunited.co.za/searchbna/results?memberlastsubclass=none&searchhistorykey=0&keywords=reilly&county=london%2C%20england&from=1830&to=1839&type=advertisement&page=1

1838 - Name/Store: Reilly, Joseph Charles, gunmaker; 316 Chancery St., 8. High Holborn, Division II Holborn Bars, London; (John Tallis’s London Street Views, London Shops and Businesses 1838-1840)

1840 : Name: J C REILLY at 316 High Holborn mentioned as a ‘gunmaker’ in Blaine’s Rural Sports

1841 - Name: Joined by his son, Edward Michael as a partner; the 1841 census listed Edward as "Gunmaker." (Some reports claim that EM joined his father in the business in 1835 on the move to High Holborn, age of 19, which seem plausible at least as a trainee, possibly not as a partner).

1841 - In the 1841 census Joseph and his family were recorded at "Holborn (above the Bars)", both Joseph and Edward described themselves as gun makers.

1841 : Name: JOSEPH REILLY is mentioned in the poem ‘Shooting’ by Alexander Webber, published in this year.

1847 - Store: Opened 502 Oxford; See Reilly SN 8463. St.; aka New Oxford Street, London. A history of Reilly claims that EM Reilly kept his father's system of consecutive Serial Numbers when Oxford St. Opened and that he began with SN 8400 and by 1880 had reached about 20,000. I can find no evidence he cited, but from the below analysis and list of SN's, the author knew what he was talking about.

The opening of this store was likely in late March 1847…see below:

-- “The lease of these premises (Holborn) expired in 1847. The new road from Holborn to Oxford Street had just been opened affording an opportunity to obtain a new building situated in a fine central position, the leading approach fro the City to the extreme west end of London.” (Wyman)

-- London Morning Post, 13 Mar 1847: “GUNS, PISTOLS, and RIFLES.— REILLY, Gunmaker, 316, Holborn, near Chancery-lane.— The Lease of these premises will expire at Thursday next, and he is RE- MOVING to 502, New Oxford Street

-- See: London Daily News, 23 April 1847. “BLISSETT, gunmaker (formerly Reilly's), 316, High Holborn, near Chancery-lane.”

-- London Daily News, 30 Oct 1847: “Pistols of every description. Gentlemen going abroad, officers, and cadets, will find all their requirements anticipated in REILLY'S extensive Stock; New and Second-hand', 502, New Oxford-street, removed from Holborn. FRANCE, SWITZERLAND, ITALY. CONTINENTAL.”

Label on the case of 8464 i.e. "Removed from Holborn":



Print of 502 Oxford St. from a label in a case:



502 (16) Oxford Street today:



1850 : Book: E M REILLY published his ‘Treatise on Air Guns’ Trade labels advertised ‘Air Canes for Sale’

1851 - Exhibition: London Great Exhibition E M REILLY of Oxford Street exhibited guns (not just air guns either) at the Great Exhibition. He was known to have been influenced by the breechloaders shown by Lefaucheaux of Paris and was ‘overdone with orders’. the Reillys together with Joseph Lang and John Blanch were the best known promoters of centre-fire guns after the 1851 Great Exhibition (see below catalogue).

Great Exhibition catalogue entry #237 (right below #236 Rigby): “Reilly, E.M. New Oxford St.; Manu — Improved guns, rifles, pistols, air guns, etc. (comment" J.C. is not mentioned in this catalogue).

“Messrs. Reilly first exhibited the now popular “Breech-Loaders” in the World’s Fair of 1851, but the sporting public had not then discovered the great advantages of the system. About this period or a few years later, Messrs. Reilly received favorable reports of their breech-loaders from a few unprejudiced sportsmen. “The quickness of loading is wonderful; the new gun kills as well as my old ones.” (Wyman)

1851 - British Army trials which picked the .577 Enfield as standard rifle, adopted in 1853. Any Enfields built by Reilly must post date 1853.

1854 - Advertisement; Reilly, Joseph Charles, 502, Oxford Street. Reilly, Edward Michael, 502, Oxford

1854 - Advertisement: Reilly: selling self-cocking Tranter revolvers on the Adams Patent.

1855 - Exhibit: Messrs Reilly were exhibitors at the Paris exhibition of 1855 and their display “attracted considerable notice and valuable patronage.” All the goods were sold and many orders booked.

1855 - Fredrick Prince's breech loading patent - (see Reilly SN 10782 & 11645); Fredrick Prince's .577 percussion breach loading rifle. outshot the just adopted Enfield 1853 in trials in 1855. 1859 several gun makers petitioned the Board of Ordnance to reconsider their decision. Reilly was marketing this gun and is so mentioned in the below historical site. He always had the most modern breech loaders in his shop. History: http://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/130153944059/historicalfirearms-frederick-princes

1855 - Beaumont-Adams patent; (see B 7452 - probably not a Reilly SN).

1858 - Advertisements in London Travel literature carry the name "Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London

1858 - Field Trial: breechloader v muzzleloader trials with [amongst others] Lancaster, Needham and Lang. Placed tenth in a trial of ’58 and eleventh in ’59.

1858 - Guns: Produced rifles on the C E Green & J Green patent – a ‘capping breech loader’ that had a rudimentary cartridge ignited by an external cap fired by a conventional side hammer.

1858 - Advertisement: Address used was
“Reilly, Gun Maker, 502 New Oxford Street, London”
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im1858POCum-Reilly.jpg

1859 - Opened a branch store at 315 New Oxford Street aka 315 Oxford Street, London. (see Reilly SN 12079). J.C. Reilly used “Reilly & Co.” (believe JC had retired he was 74 years old; he died 1864). Edward sold guns labeled 502 Oxford street as Edward M. Reilly & Co.

(interesting that in 1844, Issac Riviere was listed as a gun maker at 315 Oxford street per a list of London gun makers) (Riviere had considerable influence over the design of precussion pistols and patented his own lock in 1825; he died in 1851) https://books.google.com/books?id=OZxeAA...rn&f=false-

- see advertisement below - left is 1858 (no 315), right is 1859 (with 315 + shooting galleries).

1859 - Advertisement: first use of “E.M. Reilly? First noted use of 315 Oxford Street address.
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im1859PODor-Reilly.jpg



Note Prices quoted in Guineas: From Wikipedia: "Even after the coin ceased to circulated (1816), the name guinea was long used to indicate the amount of 21 shillings (£1.05 in decimalised currency). The guinea had an aristocratic overtone; professional fees and payment for land, horses, art, bespoke tailoring, furniture and other luxury items were often quoted in guineas until a couple of years after decimalisation in 1971." A cased Reilly breechloader in 1859 was 15-30 Guineas. Assuming $4.50 per Guinea at exchange rate at that time, a Reilly could have cost between about $70 and $130, a lot of money in those days.

1859 - London Field Trial; Reilly entered the British 1859 Field Trials with a 15 bore breech-loader built on the Lefaucheux system. Placed 11th. It was highly praised by the editors of “Field” magazine.

1859 - Patent: Henry Jones' patent #2040 was granted September 7, 1859.

1860 - Patent: C.E and J. Green, Provisional Patent (bolt action system)

1862 - Patent: Green Bros Patent 23 (bolt action system). See Reilly SN 13333.

1862 - Exhibition: “Great preparations were made by the firm for the London exhibition of 1862 and about that time Mr. Edward Reilly had taken partners and extended his business to a great extent, having opened a branch further westward on Oxford Street near Regents Circle where an active trade was carried on” (Wyman)

1863 - Patent: ’Purdey Bolt' patent no. 1104

1864 - 1861 UK Census JC Reilly listed as a fund holder and land proprietor living in Bourn End, Cranfield, Bedfordshire. He died in Cranfield, Bedfordshire in 1864. His Will was proved at the Principal Registry in that year; the value of his estate was under £7000. His son Edward Michael, gun maker also of 502 New Oxford Street, was appointed one of the executors.

1864: Advertisement: “Improved Enfield Rifles” etc.
E.M Reilly & Co., Gunmakers, 502 New Oxford Street, London;
Branch establishment 315 Oxford Street, near Regents Circus.

1865 - Patent: ’Scott Spindle' patent no. 2752

1865 - Trials: British trials to pick a breech loader after German victory over the Danes in 1864. British Army picked the Snider action Enfileld, .577 as a stop gap breech loader. Reilly entered a Green Bros patent rifle (see 13333). All Reilly Sniders should be post-1866. Note Sniders continued to be used by the Indian Army, and elements of colonial militias for the next 40 years; Reilly made Snider hunting rifles bought by British Army officers going abroad so they could use issue ammunition. The Snider, though was only a stop gap.

To begin the process on the next generation breech-loader, British War office held a prize competition in 1865 with a prize money of £5000 to select from various designers a weapon that utilised a smaller, higher velocity projectile than the .577” snider. The trials were to take place within the next two years, with an ultimate winner to be announced in 1869,

1866 - Advertisement: Australia (re Tasmanian agents for Reilly): for E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 New Oxford Street, London, which “begged to announce” that the Reilly was built “on systems not liable to derangement”. The advertisement shows a pair of under-lever pin- fire guns built on the Jones under-lever system in bore sizes 12, 15 17, and 24.

1867 - Partnership: Comblain bolt action (Belgian) patent; described in "The Engineer" May 15 1868 on page 347. Reilly presented the Comblain as a possible successor to the Snider during 1870 trials.

1867 - Patent: Rebounding hammers were patented by Stanton;

1867 - Paris exhibition - great success. M Reilly & Co were awarded a Prize Medal at the Paris Exhibition.

“At the Paris Exhibition of 1867, Messrs. Reilly were highly successful and recognized as the leading makers to the best amateurs of the day, which led to the establishment of a branch house in Rue Scribe, Paris. Captain James Forsyth said in the “Field” of July 6, 1867 - “The stand of arms shown by Reilly & Co. of London, is undoubtedly the best in the Exhibition. Almost every system of breech-loading that has been introduced for sporting guns and rifles is here seen, and their heavy double central-fire rifles for shells and for spherical balls are in every way excellent. This Firm is among the first to adopt and carry out improvements; and they offer the advantages of working at comparatively low rates and carrying out orders with dispatch I can myself speak to the soundness and excellent shooting their central-fire rifles, having used them several seasons in India, with the effect of leading me to prefer their central-fire system as now constructed.” In August of the same year Captain Majendie, R.A, one of the Commissioners appointed by the British Government, wrote to the “Illustrated London News”: — “The English display of arms consists of a fine collection show by the English Government; also Messrs. Reilly’s who’s case is one in which the proper course has been adopted to exhibit in a worthy manner the advance position of the English gun trade by a private firm. Messrs. Reilly have a number of sporting guns and rifles of different sorts, the best being made on the central-fire system.”

1867; Army trials: (For a successor to the Snider) On June 11, 1867, the prize sub-committee of the OSC reported that 104 rifles had been submitted for examination. Of those, 37 were in compliance with the terms of the advertisement, 67 had not complied, and while ineligible for the competition were set aside for consideration on their own merits. Further consideration of the 37 complying rifles, resulted in the rejection of 28. The nine systems to be carried over for trial, and requiring six specimen arms were the Albini & Braendlin, the Burton No.1 and No. 2, the Fosbery, the Henry, the Joslyn, the Martini, the Peabody, and The Remington. (See the Reilly Comblain mentioned in the chronology below)

1868 (January?) - Store: Opened a branch store at 2 Rue Scribe, Paris. (see Reilly SN 15270); Most guns made subsequent to this date and up to 1886 should have the Paris along with either 502 or 315 Oxford Street or New Oxford Street or just Oxford Street or New Oxford with Rue Scribe with no number. There are exceptions, however, and some gun ribs had only the Oxford Street addresses for some reason or another (there was some Franco-phobia around in Britain at the time).

(The date of the opening of this store is confirmed by advertisements in British travel books showing the Rue Scribe address for the first time + reproductions of the gold and silver medals won at the 1867 Paris fair).



-- Earliest London Newspaper ad for Reilly with the Paris address (they trumpted their medals at the 67 Paris fair from August 1867 on) is this one; as of end of October 1867, no Paris address in his ads. PALL MALL GAZETTE, London, 12 Feb 1868: E. M. REILLY and CO., 502 NEW OXFOD STREET, London. Branch Establishments- 315, Oxford-street, London ; and 2, Rue Scribe, Paris

1870 - Trials: Trials to replace the Snider by British Army, Reilly enters a Belgian Comblain breech loader with his name on it. No Paris address but Paris is stamped on one butt on Comblain nr. 32, probably a trial gun.

1871 - Martini Henry (Martini action, Henry barrel) adopted by British Army. (See Reilly SN 17644) It was used until 1892 when the Lee-Medford then Lee-Enfield was adopted and continued to be entered in marksmanship contests until WWI. Reilly made Martini Henry’s for the next 30 years in various calibers. The first Reilly Martini Henry I can find is SN 17644 (and I can't be sure it's really a Reilly SN). (I do not believe he place Reilly SN's on many subsequent Martini orders though he put his name on them..17644 is the only Reilly SN I can find - and the SN may not be his).

On 13th April 1871 the orders were placed at the Royal Small Arms factory at Enfield for full scale production of the Martini Henry Rifle, between then and 1874 The Martini Henry was trialled throughout the Empire by various regiments, and finally on September 28th 1874 it was authorised for full issue to the British Army. (Mark I-IV variants - this was the gun of Rork's Drift, the Zulu Wars; the Second invasion of Afghanistan in 1878 - used by British Regiments, etc).

1871 - Advertisement in Statesman’s Yearbook, 1871:
E. M. REILLY and CO.,
GUN MANUFACTURERS,
502 New Oxford Street, London.
BRANCH: 2 RUE SCRIBE, PARIS.

1871 - American catalogue: 1871 J. H. Johnston Great Western Gun Works catalog:
Muzzle loader = sold as ‘English’, ‘Belgian’, ‘American’, only Greener is called out by name
Breech loader = Greener, Westley Richards, E. M. Reilly & Co

1870-1880 - Advertisements in Bradshaw Illustrated travel books.
E.M. Reilly & Co of 502, Oxford Street, London, branches 315, Oxford Street, London and 2, Rue Scribe, Paris

1870 - Advertisement, “Bradshaw’s Pedestrian Route Book for Switzerland, Chamouni and the Italian Lakes.” 502 and 315 Oxford Street and Rue Scribe addesses. It mentions: Sole manufacturers of the Reilly-Comblain rifle for military and sporting purposes (see Reilly-Comblain entries below in the SN thread)

1872 - Patent: Anson's fore-end fastener patent no. 3791

1874 - Patent: Needham patented a hammerless, barrel-cocking gun which was also the first ejector in 1874.

1875 - Patent: W.M. Scott's patent 3223

1875 - Patent: Anson & Deely patent; the first hammerless gun with top lever.

1878 - Patent: Mills 3rd bite patent no 4980

1878 - Patent: Patent Number 761 was recorded by William Middleditch Scott and Thomas Baker

1878 - Exhibition: Paris Exhibition

1881-1891: Reilly guns dominate pigeon shooting contests in England and abroad,

1881 - Address: Late in 1881 Oxford street was re-numbered - 315 becoming 277 and 502 becoming 16. Reilly used both numbers along with Rue Scribe in advertisements in 1882. Theoretically guns after 1881 ought to have 16 Oxford or 277 Oxford along with the Rue Scribe Paris address. However, some guns apparently continued to be labeled with the 502 and 315 Oxford Street numbers. (see 1882 advertisement below)

1882 - January, Advertisement: Royal Red Book of Court and Fashionable Register for January
EM REILLY & CO.
277 (315), Oxford St., W; 16 (502) New Oxford St.[/color],
and Rue Scribe, Paris



1883 - Advertisement; Army Navy Calendar for the Financial Year1883-84 (Note continued use of the 315 and 502 addresses)

Advertisement for EM Reilly,
IMPROVED BREECH LOADERS
located at 315 and 502 Oxford Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris

1883 - Exhibition: Calcutta, 1883. Silver medal prize.

1884 - Prize: Awarded a Gold Medal in the London Exhibition.

1885 - Exhibition: "Messrs. Reily & Co.’s stand at the International Inventions Exhibition of 1885 was acknowledged to have been one of the best-appointed exhibits. Express rifles formed an important part in this display. the double 450-bore and 500-bore with long cartridge and 120 grains of powder, and the 400-bore with 90 grains of powder, were much admired and considered equal to the work required of them, viz, deer-stalking, black buck, etc. Amongst the exhibits were Magnum Express 577, and large bore rifles, 12, 10, 8, and 4 gauge, single and double barreled, of the latest construction, taking heavy charges of powder, as supplied to well-known hunters and explorers in Africa, India and other parts of the world. Rook and rabbit rifles of 300-bore, with hammers and hammerless. The shooting these small bores - either single or double barrel - rifled on their non-fouling system, is wonderfully accurate.” (Wyman)

“Messrs. Reilly also exhibited self-ejector hammerless guns, which throw out the exploded cartridge case or cases as may be… This gun has the automatic safety bolt and other recent improvements in hammerless guns."

1886 : Advertisement: Burke’s Landed Gentry publication shows premises at 277 Oxford Street, 16, New Oxford Street and Rue Scribe, Paris.

1886 - Address: Reilly closed Rue Scribe, Paris. (See Reilly SN 26584). Some claim he opened another office in St Honore. I doubt this. The address is for a hotel. Perhaps he kept a mailing address there. - I'm not denigrating others' research...I just can't find the references...please add to this if you know more.

The last SN I can find with Oxford St. and Rue Scribe. It's on a label in my case. The SN is 26584 and there is a date 1886 in the corner, hand written:



1887 - Proof Mark: “Not for Ball” proof mark dropped.

1889 - Southgate lockwork, ejector and interceptor sear patent no 12314.

1889 Jun - 1890 Feb: Law suit re easement to the entrance way to 277 New Oxford Street. Reilly v. Booth. Cited in land law cases for the next 100 years: https://books.google.com/books?id=lTIyAA...don&f=false

1890 - Personal: EM Reilly dies. Business taken over by his sons Charles E. Reilly (b1871) and Herbert (Bert) H. Reilly (b. 1875)? Who ran the business since these boys were 19 and 16 years old at the time? Mary, the wife?

1893 - Patent: Southgate's ejector trip patent no 8239

1898 - Address: 16 New Oxford Street closed. (See Reilly SN 34723); 277 New Oxford Street remains open.

1903 - Registration: Charles Arthur Farquhar Reilly (b1870) & Herber Horace (Bert) Reilly listed at 277 Oxford Street, London in electoral roles.

1903 - Address: 277 New Oxford Street vacated - moved to 295 Oxford Street. (See Reilly SN 35423)

From 1904 to 1911 the firm was recorded at 295 Oxford Street. According to oft repeated information, A gun built c1905 also carries his late father’s address of 12 Middle Row, Holborn on the top rib. I've seen bad information repeated ad nauseam and become "history." Middle Row was destroyed and the Prudential building built there in the late 1800's. Before accepting this, I'd like to see the gun and the serial number.

In 1912 E M Reilly & Co Ltd was recorded at 13 High Street, Marylebone. The directors of this limited company were H Reilly and C W Roberts. I've attempted to establish the identity of CW Roberts...no success so far. Welcome additional information. (see page 15: CW Roberts is likely George W. Roberts, liquidated who handled the bankruptcy of Reilly on June 8, 1912.)
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/21/16 05:15 PM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From the above history and the below list of 100 Reilly Serial Numbers I’ve found on the internet, here are some the key Serial Numbered guns which can be used as “chronological markers.” I’ll post the list of all of the guns I’ve found to support this. Note: The Reilly hand-guns appear to follow a different numbering system, perhaps having started at 40,000 - haven’t researched them.

162 - 1820’s? Earliest Reilly I can find. I speculate that any Reilly labeled "Holborn Bars" was made and serial numbered at 12 Middle Road, Holborn above the Bars. Reilly moved to 316 High Holborn in 1835.

1024 - 1835? This is speculation but I believe 1024, even though it is a pistol, is the earliest Reilly made at 316 High Holborn that I can find.

3329 - 1847? Last use of 316 High Holborn Street on a gun (although there may be later ones)

8463 - 1848?; first confirmed used of Oxford Street on gun (case label has “removed from Holborn); (Note gap of some 5,000 numbers from the last Holborn Street gun and the first confirmed Oxford Street gun...this needs more data).

10782 - 1855 Frederic Prince patent - breech loader, trialed in 1855 against the Enfield rifled muzzle loader. First Reilly Prince.

12079 - 1859 (first mention of 315 Oxford Street)

13333 - 1862 (first mention of Green Bros Patent) (this is Green Bros Test gun 32, almost certainty produced in 1862)

15270 - 1868 (first mention of Paris address; non rebounding hammers) (all commercial guns should have the Paris address at least on the cases and in advertisements from 1868 to 1886; however per below, some guns continued to have only the London addresses engraved on the ribs)

16341 - 1870 (first Reilly Snider = post 1866; rebounding hammers = post 1868)

17644 - 1872? (First Reilly Martini SN, Martini Henry adopted by British Army 1871 - can't be sure this is a Reilly number)

25161 - 1885? (Problematic gun - It has the 502 Oxford + Rue Scribe address; and the case is labeled 1880 made for the King of Spain; But the SN seems wrong and the story is very odd -check it out. So was the original gun stolen and replaced by Reilly later using the original markings?

25460 - 1885 (First confirmed use of the 277 Oxford address on a gun rib; the address changed in 1881 but 315 Oxford rather than 277 continued to be used on the guns themselves and at times in advertisements, as was 502 Oxford rather than 16 Oxford) (Note: This could change; There are a number of guns with 16 Oxford and Rue Scribe and 277 Oxford and Rue Scribe posted on the internet. Unfortunately, SN’s are not posted.)

26584 - 1886 (Label in a case w/date. Last Paris +16 Oxford address?)

34723 - 1898 (Last confirmed use of 16 Oxford Street address on a gun)

34865 - 1898 (277 Oxford Street address continues to be used on a gun)

35092 - 1900? (277 Oxford Streed address...declining sales?)

35413 - 1903 (first confirmed use of 295 Oxford Street address on a gun)
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/21/16 05:18 PM

+++++List of Reilly Serial Numbers to 1904 and comments +++++++++++++ (!!!!!!!!!!!!! = date marker serial numbers)

162 - (1820’s?); !!!!!!!!! First Reilly SN on the net !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Address: J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS LONDON; Believe this is the 12 Middle Row address, Reilly was there from 1814-1835,
Description: 14 bore, percussion, single-barreled muzzle-loading shotgun shotgun; re-browned twist-iron triple-stage 32in. barrel with carved bands at the intersection, the top-flat signed in gothic script 'J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS LONDON',
Comments: The auctioneer identified this as an circa 1835 gun. This is the earliest serial number I’ve ever seen for a Reilly and if it is accurate, it has to be 1820’s…Reilly engraving was always special and it looks like this gun had it (no photo available)
https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=10247&aid=86974&lid=22392051

176 (Pistol) Pre 1835. Believe this is the 12 Middle Row address, Reilly was there from 1814-1835
Name: J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS, LONDON
Description: Serial #176, .50 caliber, 8 3/4" smooth bore octagon barrels with lightly oxidized bores. The tops of the barrels are each marked "J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS, LONDON" and each lock is engraved "J.C. REILLY". The locks and hammers show lovely flowing foliate scroll with panoplies of arms engraved on the hammers. The bolsters are equipped with platinum blow out plugs.
Comment: Do not know if Reilly hand-guns used his sequential Serial Numbering, These pistols though with "Holborn Bars" may have. Note rounded butts.-
Terry Boffum owned these gunst.
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/108/283.html

xxxx (Pistol)
Name: J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, LONDON
Description: British Mid 19th Century Pocket Pistol, comprising: Small [Overall Length 14cm] Muzzle Loading Percussion Pocket Pistol, Proof Marks to Underside of 5.5cm Barrel. Complete with Foliate Decoration, Bag Shaped Walnut Grip & Folding Trigger.
Comment: Holborn Bar indicates this pistol is pre 1835 before the move to High Holborn.
http://www.vectis.co.uk/Page/ViewLot.aspx?LotId=598875&Section=0&Start=320

xxxx (Pistol) - Must be after 1835, see above
Name: JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON
Description: .50 caliber pistol with a 10-inch octagonal barrel measures 15-inches in overall length. Wood ramrod with flared brass cap, brass section at rear unscrews exposing the worm. Top of barrel marked "JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON." London proof marks. Platinum blowout plug on nipple drum. One barrel key with oval silver escutcheons. The brown Damascus finish slightly worn.
http://www.aaawt.com/html/firearms/f296.html

1024 - (Pistol)!!!!!! 1st recorded SN with 316 High Holborn (after 1835 - see above re move to 316 High Holborn in August 1835 documented by London Tax Records and newspaper advertisement);!!!!!
Address: Reilly 316 Holborn London
Description: erkussions-Terzerolpistole um 1840 Joseph Charles Reilly London
achtkantiger, glatter Lauf, im Kaliber 8,5 mm, mit leichter Gravur an Laufmündung, sowie Signatur auf der Oberseite "Reilly 316 Holborn London". Mit Rankendekor graviertes Perkussionsschloss, Abzug klappt bei Spannung des Hahnes aus.
Comment: Pistol….interesting serial number. rounded butt
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auctio...30-a3fd003539d2

1174 - (1837 +?); (If the above pistol SN is correct this will be after 1835 move to 316 High Holborn)
Address: J.C. REILLY (no address);
Description: 8 bore, percussion, single shot, muzzle loading shotgun. Patch box in butt.
http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...2&saletype=

1292 (Pistol) (1837 +?)
Address: Reilly, London
Description: Miniature 120-Bore Box-Lock Percussion Pocket Pistol By Reilly of London, Circa 1850. With round turn-off barrel engraved with a band of foliage at the breech.
Comment: Percussion miniature pistol, typical of early Reilly’s; believe he manufactured this. Note the rounded butt…seems to be a marker.
http://www.garthvincent.com/antique/1597/a+miniature+pocket+pistol/

3329 - (1846-1847?) !!!!!!!!!! First and last recorded SN'd gun with High Holborn - I believe this was c1847 just before they moved !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Address: J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBORN, LONDON;
Description: 10 gauge/.58 caliber. 30 inch brown twist barrels, the concave rib signed Joseph Charles Reilly 316 High Holburn London; single standing/single folding rear sight; breech end of rib inlaid with two platinum bands. London proofs. Patent breech. Scroll-engraved tang and back action locks, the latter signed Reilly. Engraved steel furniture. Figured walnut half-stock with vacant silver wrist escutcheon. Sling swivels. Brass-tipped ramrod. Together with green baize-lined oak case.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22403/lot/5482/

xxxx (1840’s?)
Address: JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON
Description: A fine classical English iron mounted half stocked double barrelled hunting gun c. 1840 by Joseph Charles Reilly with butt cap, trigger guard, and locks finely engraved with English scroll, c. 71 cm. long barrels in calibre c. 16,5 cm. marked on the strap JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON.
Comment: Beautiful engraving with a classic Reilly stock..the markers are there very early. He made this gun. I want it.
https://www.barnebys.com/auctions/lot/32...charles-reilly/

8463 - (1847); !!!!!!!!!! Earliest SN after move to 502 Oxford !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Address: Reilly, New Oxford Street, London (case label has “removed from Holborn);
Description: .390, percussion, double express rifle. Enfield type rifling, muzzle loading; (breaks down) with patch box in butt;
Comment: This is the first confirmed use of the Oxford Street address on a Reilly gun..and the label "removed from Holborn" would indicate an early provenance after the change to Oxford street. But there's that pesky gap of 5,000 serial numbers.
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-1361-e-m...nal-case-40673/

84xx - (1847);
Address: REILLY. 502 OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: 6 Bore; 26.25'' barrel, Manufactured in England circa 1840s. Original browned finish barrel, casehardened lock, mounted in a walnut stock with double wedged forend and checkered wrist. Fine scroll leaf engraving on the lockplate and stock mounts. Engraved on the side of the lockplate "REILLY.LONDON". The barrel has likely been shortened to the present length. Ramrod is a later replacement. The lock functions fine. Antique, s/n 84xx
Comment
http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=42593

8578 - (1849?);
Address: JC Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London (case label has “removed from Holborn);
Description: A CASED DOUBLE BARREL PERCUSSION SPORTING GUN
ca 1850, lock signed Reilly (Joseph Charles R. London), lock and steel mounts with engraved decorations, triggerguard with no 8578, twist barrels with London proof marks, signed on the rib JC Reilly, 502 New Oxford street London, 114 cm, case with label
Comment: "Removed for Holborn" means it should be within a couple of years of the March 1847 move from 316 to 502. 1849 would seem a logical date.
http://www.probusauktioner.se/auktion/au...November%202014

xxxx - (1853-65?);
Address: Reilly, Oxford Street, London.
Description. .577? Muzzle loading, percussion, rifle, with Enfield like sights. No details (Polish site)…
Comments: This might be a sporting Enfield. Patch box in butt.
http://www.dobrybazar.sk/detail/predam-perkusnu-gulovnicu-reilly-new-oxford-street

B 7452 - (1855?) (Beaumont Adams patent) (502 address - earlier than reported?) (I now feel the "B" in front of the number makes this certainly NOT a Reilly number.)
Address: E.M. REILLY, 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON; (note “B” in front of SN)
Description: .577 Beaumont- Adams patent 5-shot, double action, percussion revolving (cylinder) rifle. The patent is dated c1855. It was retailed by Reilly. It is possible Reilly tried to convince the British Army to adopt it (.577 caliber; British Army). (beautiful stock, what would become a typical Reilly stock)
Comments: This rifle looks like a revolver. Serial number has a "B" in front of it...Reilly seems only to have done that when selling other's guns. But I believe he was involved in trying to get the Armory to recompete the Enfield bid and put it up against this gun!
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/arms-...18-details.aspx

9137 - (1855?) (I now believe this is not a Reilly SN - yet check it out; Damascus barrel, gorgeous stock, beautiful work)
Address: E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 Oxford St. London
Description: .40 Calibre Break Action Needle Fire Rook Rifle
Comment: this Patent was taken out in 1855. I have a feeling Reilly marketed these guns (see second one below in the late 1850’s. This looks like a Reilly SN but may not be; other makers sold these guns as well.
http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Odd%20Fel...2040%20Cal..htm

see another similar Needle Fire gun (no SN) marketed by Edwin C. Green at (on page 8):
http://www.jcmilitaria.com/antique_weapons_rifles.asp?Start=60
image here: http://www.jcmilitaria.com/display_image.asp?ID=10135

10315 -
Address: REILLY, NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON
Description: .6-BORE PERCUSSION SINGLE-BARRELED FOWLING-PIECE, serial no. 10315, circa 1855, with tapering twist-iron 38in. browned barrel, moulded short sighting rib at breech with long borderline engraved steeple to the front terminating in a finely engraved starburst,
Comments: No Photo, etc. Identified by seller as c1855.
https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/REILLY-LONDON/22392022/LotDetail.asp?lid=22392022

10354? - (1856?) (SN very unclear)
Address: Reilly 502 New Oxford Street London
Description: .400, SxS double breech loading rifle completely redone in 1890’s.
Comments: the gun is so redone that it looks very 1890’s. The only original thing left looks to be the barrels and the action with the SN. Interesting though. SN is unclear from the photos,
http://www.icollector.com/Cased-English-...och-2_i19846957

10619 - (1857?)
Name: “Reilly” (no details)
Description: .380 SINGLE-BARRELLED PERCUSSION PARK RIFLE
Comments: Christies is not helpful in the info they leave behind after their sales.
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/print_sale.aspx?saleid=10537

10621 - (1857?)
Name: E.M. Reilly, London (cannot confirm this from photos - if true, 1st use of EM Reilly on a gun)
Description: .376 Percussion sporting rifle by E M Reilly, 24 ins octagonal half stocked barrel. Muzzle loader.
Comment: Very old-school, with Reilly stock. Remember though both armies went through the War Between the States with old school Enfiled like percussion rifles.
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auctio...87-a4f700ac96eb

10782 - (1857?) !!!!!!!!!! 1st Frederic Prince - 1855 Patent !!!!!
Name: Reilly, New Oxford St, London
Description: .577 percussion breach loading rifle. Fredrick Prince 1955 Patent. Outshot the 1853 Enfield in trials in 1855. 1859 several gun maker petitioned the Board of Ordnance to reconsider their decision.
Comment: Reilly was marketing this gun. He always had the most modern breech loaders in his shop. Looks like he put his SN on this one
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auctio...65-a448009068b8

11227 - (1858?)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford St., London
Description: Standard military configuration 1853 pattern Enfield, muzzle loader; Percussion.
Comments: 1853 Enfields were still the standard gun of the British Army and of the Confederate Army. Very fine work, gold inlay
http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/civilwarantiques/1306webcat.html

11645
Name: REILLY, 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: 100 BORE PERCUSSION BREECH-LOADING PRINCE'S PATENT RIFLE. CIRCA 1855-60
with signed tapering sighted barrel rifled with four shallow grooves, scroll-engraved back-action lock, figured walnut half-stock, chequered grip, scroll-engraved trigger-guard fitted with sliding safety-catch engaging the bolt at the front, and engraved steel butt-cap
71.5cm; 28 1/8in barrel. Frederick Prince patented this system in 1855.
Comment:
http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogues/as071211/page12.html

11651 - (1859?) !!!!!!!! 1st use of EM on a rib - documented 1859 advertisement !!!!
Name: E.M. Reilly, Oxford St., London
Description: .577" Snider sporting rifle converted from percussion, by Reilly, London, with military style ladder rearsight, the Breech engraved "E.M. Reilly Oxford Street, London", plain lock with rounded hammer, the plate engraved "Reilly, London"; walnut halfstock with fore end and wrist, plain steel mounts including scrolled trigger guard numbered 11651, and large patch box in butt, Percussion.
Comments: Key comment is that this was an Enfield…probably built by Reilly per above…then later (after 1866) converted to Snider…a straight forward conversion.
http://www.millersantiquesguide.com/items/48760/577-snider-sporting-rifle/

12079 - (1860?) !!!!!!!!! first mention of 315 Oxford Street address ]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO., 315 & 502 OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: 451 PERCUSSION VOLUNTEER MILITARY TARGET RIFLE; Muzzle loading, Percussion.
Comment: This is the first SN with the 315 Oxford Street address on a gun. 315 Oxford opened in 1859. Patch storage in the butt.
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auctio...99-a561010b95f5

12532 - (1861?)
Name: REILLY, 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON (on case E.M Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London).
Description: Gold plated 12 bore, percussion fire, muzzle loading rifle. ALL the metal parts have been gilded, it has 32″ fluted barrels and a beautiful Walnut stock.
Comment: Highly ornate, gold plated, fancy stock, amazing case obviously made for a Marahajah. This does not have the Paris address.
http://micksguns.com/cased-guns/
Secong Ad says 1855. I’d reckon it to be 6-7 years older based on serial number.
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/e.m.-reilly,-london-a-gilded-and-cased-12-bore-pe-545-c-cbe4d2e8d5

13033
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London
Description: 20 bore, 29" barrels with very good bores that show a little scattered light pitting. This is a very nice quality shotgun that remains in very fine condition. The back action locks are engraved with folky gamescenes with gamebirds in wooded scene surrounded by scroll. Reilly pinfire double gun. [Terry Buffum Collection]
Comment:
https://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=103285&p=16&sort=0

13333 - (1862?) (Green brother’s patent) !!!!!!! Firm identification !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO, 502 NEW OXFORD ST, LONDON
Description: .577 PERCUSSION CAPPING BREECH-LOADING CARBINE, MODEL 'GREEN BROTHER'S PATENT’. one of the first produced (licence use number 23) after 1862 patent. Submitted for the 1864 breech loading trials. Lost out to the Snider.
Comment: A very important “Marker” serial number. This is one of the first Green patent (1862) guns.
http://www.invaluable.co.uk/auction-lot/e.m.-reilly-co,-london-a-rare-.577-percussion-c-671-c-645dde1fff

13590 - (1863?)
Name: E.M Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London.
Description: Percussion sporting rifle, double barreled express (Elephant gun) 10 bore (cal. .775), steel slightly tapered damascus round barrels, 61.40cm long
Comment: Amazing the British Museum could be so wrong…they dated this 1880’s-90’s. The address alone simply could not be 80’s-90’s.
http://collections.museumvictoria.com.au/items/373584

13599 - (1863?)
Name: E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London
Descriptions: late percussion-era, 12-bore two groove, “Express” double rifle #13599, ca. 1865-70. Superb 26” heavy barrels
Comment: With case…Label has Sanskrit lettering.
http://www.sitemason.com/page/i8qT6g

14115 - (1864?)
Name: E.M Reilly (nothing further - no photos, etc)
Descriptions: Underlever hammer double; 29 1/2" fancy damascus barrels aged brown with lots of original pattern. Very good bore with a couple of scattered pits. Best quality jones under lever action
Comment:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=528802164#PIC

14580 - (1865?)
Name: E.M. REILLY & Co. LONDON
Descriptions: 12 gauge muzzleloading shotgun serial number 14580. The side by side round barrels are 27 1⁄2 inches long and light gray in color and show some evidence of the single twist pattern
Comment:
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/pdf_datashe...2aktp0ah8dnk8d6

14985 -
Name: E.M. REILLY. & CO. OXFORD STREET. LONDON
Descriptions: Sidelock, underlever hammer gun. 16 ga, 28" matted rib damascus barrels choked cylinder and cylinder with very good bright bores having a few light pits present. The damascus barrels
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-R...m-02.4-amoskeag

15129 - (1867?) (No Paris address)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 Oxford St. London
Descriptions: 12 Bore PIn FIre Side By Side Shotgun w/ 30" bbl
Comment:
http://www.icollector.com/E-M-Reilly-Co-...rca-1_i23057034

15270 - (1868?) (first mention of Paris address; but with non-rebounding hammers) !!!!!!! First Paris address !!!!!!!!!!!
Name: E.M.Reilly and Company Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris.
Descriptions: .577 calibre double barrel hammer breech loading underlever black powder proof African dangerous big game rifle.circa 1870 #15270. non rebounding back action locks,Jones patent rotary u/lever,26"
Comment: Note that these are non-rebounding hammers; Rebounding hammers were patented by Stanton in 1867; Reilly was quick to get the latest advances into his shop. So....after the opening of Rue Scribe, before the patent of rebounding hammers? Can't be...latter in 1868, former in 1867....but it narrows it down.
http://www.gunstar.co.uk/reilly-e-m-co-double-barrel-hammer-rifle-rifles/rifles/584595

15283
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. OXFORD STREET LONDON
Descriptions: 12 ga (2 1/2"), 30" matted rib damascus barrels both choked open cylinder having bright excellent bores. The barrels have toned to a pleasing brown patina and display a strong damascus pattern displaying just a few light handling marks. The breech ends and 3/4" of the rib show nice engraving, the rib is marked "E.M. REILLY & CO. OXFORD STREET LONDON.".
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/Lovl...e-02.4-amoskeag

15356 -
Name: E M Reilly (no further info)
Descriptions: 12 gauge under lever hammer shotgun
Comment: No other info on this gun but a great answer by xxxxx on this site though!!
http://www.answers.com/Q/Where_can_you_f...on_serial_15346

15531
Name: Not mentioned in ad except for “Reilly & Co.) (no address mentioned).
Descriptions: .50 cal., 30 1/4" octagon barrel of new manufacture, utilizing the original breech. The barrel shows a nice modern plum brown with some toning on the sharp edges and a bright-face muzzle. The breech plug shows some light scroll engraving and has vibrant restored color case-hardening. The lockplate is now primarily a gray and brown patina, as is the long tang and triggerguard, buttplate and nosecap. The lock shows light loose scroll, as does the hammer, the lockplate maker marked.
Comment: Terry Buffum collection; Looks like a classic sporterized 1853 Enfield.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/Brit...n-03.4-amoskeag

15625 - (1868?)
Name: E.M. REILLY 502 NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON Branch Establishment 2 Rue Scribe Paris
Descriptions: 4 bore SxS cased hammer gun SN 15625 converted by the company in the eighteen hundreds from the original pinfire to centerfire.
Comment: George’s gun and subject to some painful back and forth-ing typical of the internet.
http://www.mylandco.com/index.php?pageid=4

15961 - (1868?)
Name: E.M. Reilly (no further descriptions)
Descriptions: 12-bore (pin-fire) double-barrelled hammer rifle.
Comment: Christies is pretty stingy with their after-sale into.
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/print_sale.aspx?saleid=8291

16341 - (1869-70?) (markers - Snider, pre-Martini; first mention of rebounding hammers) [color:#FF6666]!!!!!!! First rebounding hammers (1867) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/color]
Name: E.M.Reilly (No further descriptions in the article)
Descriptions: Began life as a .double rifle, a 577 Snider double made in 1874. It was proofed for blackpowder and marked “26.” indicating a 26-bore, or .577 caliber. It has Stanton’s rebounding hammers, and the only fully “snap Jones underleaver I have ever seen.
Comment: Terry Weiland wrote this up in Digest, 2014, p. 152; 68th edition, as a restoration project. He said it was made c1874. It might be earlier. Reason being - 17644 is the first Reilly Martini I can find and that has to be after 1871. So this Snider probably is a couple years earlier. Rebounding hammers came out in1867…this is the first Reilly I can find with them unless George’s 4 originally had them.
https://books.google.com/books?id=OoBq0q...ase&f=false

16583
Name: E. M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford Street London
Descriptions: Round, smoothbore, juxtaposed, damascened (minor defects), 8 mm. cal. barrels with a slightly hollow rib, sighted nozzle, marked "E. M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford Street London" in gold, on the lower part of the breech are various English test bench marks; fine forward spring batteries finely engraved with racemes around hunting scenes with hounds, marked "E. M. Reilly & Co." in gold; the received and the other mounts are engraved en suite; fine briarwood stock (a repair at the throw) checkered like the mouth's black horn rod; some mounts, among which the trigger guard, the safety lock (before the trigger), some screws, the firing pins' bases and the rod's locking mechanism are still blued; the butt plate is made of hard rubber, on the lower part of the stock is a silver shield.
Comment:
http://czernys.auction.fr/_fr/lot/a-case...30#.Vt-XFnhQoqY

16585 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co, Oxford Street, London and Rue Scribe Paris
Descriptions: 10ga underlever big-game gun with exposed hammers, double-triggers, finely bank-note scroll engraved with hammer safeties.
Comment: Auction said 1880’s-90’s. Has to be early 70’s unless it were refurbished.
http://www.icollector.com/10ga-underleve...is-ad_i11291628

16607 -
Name: E. M. Reilly (no addresses mentioned and no photo of the actual address on the gun)
Descriptions: Classic Snider, .577 rifle. Brass plates.
Comment: Paris address should be on this rifle.
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/threads/e-m-reilly-snider.138271/

xxxxx - (1870?) (entered the 1870 British army tests))Reilly-Comblain)
Name: E. M. REILLY & CO SOLE MANUFACTURES NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON
Descriptions: Reilly-Comblain. .577 bolt action Belgian rifle patented in 1868 which Reilly attempted to marked to the British Army as a substitute for the Snider. May have entered the 1870 trials which selected the hybrid Martini-Henry,
Comment: There are at least 5 Reilly-Comblains on the internet. One has a Paris address stamped on the butt; All the others only the Oxford St. Address. He was marketing this gun to the Army and probably didn’t want to mention Paris. I cannot find a Reilly SN on any of these rifles. They would be a marker if someone could come up with one.

1870 - Advertisement, “Bradshaw’s Pedestrian Route Book for Switzerland, Chamouni and the Italian Lakes.” 502 and 315 Oxford Street and Rue Scribe addesses. Ad mentions: "Sole manufacturers of the Reilly-Comblain rifle for military and sporting purposes."
https://books.google.com/books?id=kX4DAA...don&f=false

http://www.bruun-rasmussen.dk/search.do?...amp;mode=detail

http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/e....20-c-34a42e6b09

http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/2104#.Vr6igXhQoqY

http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Sporting%20Rifles/Reilly-Comblain/Reilly-Comblain.html

http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/e....20-c-34a42e6b09

http://www.versaillesencheres.auction.fr...07#.VrqKH3hQoqY

16765 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & Co. OXFORD STREET. LONDON & 2. RUE SCRIBE PARIS
Descriptions: 12 ga SxS shotgun. 30” Damascus barrels, 2 1/2” chambers; extractor lever. beavertail forestock. Looks like rebounding hammers.
Comment: Beautiful stock.
http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/65/lid/627

16768 -
Name: E.M. Reilly (Auctioneer’s description; no address mentioned)
Descriptions: 12 bore hammer gun; 29 1/2-inch damascus barrels with 2 1/2-inch chambers about improved cylinder borings, the rounded frame, rebounding bar lock, hammers and push forward under lever with scroll engraving
Comment: (no mention/photo of entire address on the gun)(Should have Paris address)
http://www.gavingardiner.com/bidcat/Cata...&offset=240

16808 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., London (Auctioneer’s description)
Descriptions: Double Barrel Shot Gun w/Exposed Hammers
Comment: (No mention/photo of entire address/ should have Paris)
http://www.cottoneauctions.com/lots/1097...eilly-co-london

16810 -
Name: top-rib engraved 'E.M. REILLY & CO, NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON & RUE SCRIBE PARIS
Descriptions: 12 bore, pin-fired, double shotgun with cartridge lifter. 30” Damascus barrels. 'Jones' swing under-lever opening
Comment: From the photos, non-rebounding hammers…looks like they have to be in half cock to break the gun.
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/e....49-c-a8759a5cd2

16961 - (1868?)
Name: E.M. Reilly (no further descriptions)
Descriptions: 12-bore (pin-fire) double-barrelled hammer rifle.
Comment: Christies is pretty stingy with their after-sale into.

16987 - (pre 1875)
Name: EM Reilly & Co., 502 Oxford St., London
Descriptions: double gun, muzzle-loading
Comment: Advertisement placed in the “Northern Territories Times,” Palmerston (Australia) on Saturday, August 28, 1875 re a stolen gun.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/page/549663

17204 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. NEW OXFORD STREET. LONDON & 2 RUE SCRIBE, PARIS
Descriptions: 12 bore, pin fired, rotary-underlever shotgun. Damascus barrels.
Comment: Non rebounding hammers.
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/e....00-c-36k6pjhxeb

17393 - (1871-72?)
Name: E.M. Reilly, New Oxford Street, London and 2 Rue Scribe, Paris
Descriptions: 12 bore push-forward underlever snap action hammergun, serial number 17393. It has 30" Nitro reproved bold Damascus barrels; Purdey 1863 patent doube-bite locking bolt (patent 1104 of 2nd May 1863, use number 948). sprung push-forward underlever
Comment:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=157072

17474 -
Name: “London and Paris address”
Descriptions: 12 bore Reilly hammer shotgun
Comment: “I had a similar gun (to 17393) I just consigned to Greg Martin. #17476, Purdey thumb push opener, also with the London and Paris addresses.”
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=157099

17644 - (1872-3?) (First Reilly Martini - has to be after 1871) !!!!!!!! First Reilly Martini - (note; can't be sure this is a Reilly SN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name: E.M Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London (no Paris address)
Descriptions: .577 (.450) Martini-Henry action
Comment: This is the first Reilly Martini I can find. The SN is stamped on the receiver and action and may not be his; However this gun has to be after the 1870 trials. Martini’s were made in various calibers by Reilly for 30 years. This is the only one I’ve found so far with a Reilly serial number. In the Victorian era it was common practice for Officer’s & Other Ranks of Volunteer & Militia Units to privately purchase their own weapons to supplement their limited supply of issued weapons. Privately purchased Martini Henry rifles & carbines were manufactured by quality gunsmiths using genuine Enfield manufactured parts.
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/8720/E-M-Reilly-Martini#.VrgJC3hQoqY

Here are other Reilly Martini’s, with no identified SN’s.

— See this Martini, E.M. Reilly & Co, New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris, .450, black powder, Elay 3 1/4 express.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=270014&start=20

— and this .577/.450 Reilly Martini, E M REILLY & CO, OXFORD ST, LONDON; black powder. (no Paris address)
https://www.gunsamerica.com/999425841/Martini-E-M-Reilly-577-45.htm

— .380 Martini Rook Rifle, E.M. Reilly, 315 oxford street , London.
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/r...em#.Vr6vT3hQoqY

18536
Name: Illegible
Descriptions: Also have in my rack 18536, a 20b backaction hammergun. Jones Rotary Underlever, 30" Damascus barrels, horrid replacement wood, cross bolt forend, nice bold foliate engraving. Barrels out of proof and slotted. 6094 stamped on short rib. Top rib engraving illegible.
Comment: From Toby on the board.

18547 -
Name: E.M REILLY & CO, OXFORD STREET, LONDON & RUE SCRIBE, PARIS
Descriptions: A 15-bore needle-fire double-barreled sporting gun/ Needham’s patent, SN 18547; 28 1/2in. damascus barrels
Comment:
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/e.-m.-reilly-co.,-london-a-15-bore-needle-fire-917-c-278ffce1dd

18766 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris
Descriptions: E M Reilly double rifles in .500BPE. rebounding hammers. extensively engraved, Damascus barrels
Comment: Both of my rifles have the same London and Paris addresses on the barrels. I'm interested in your source regarding the closing of the Paris "storefront" closing in 1872. Brown makes the following statement; "There was a Paris branch in the Rue Scribe certainly in the 1870s and 1880s."
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=384732

18954 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris
Descriptions: E M Reilly double rifles in .500BPE. rebounding hammers. extensively engraved, rust-blue barrels
Comment:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=384732

19953 (SN indistinct) -
Name: E.M. REILLY & Co. NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON
Descriptions: SxS 500 Express, hammer gun. 28” solid rib, case hardened steel barrels. round back action type lock
Comment: The serial number is indistinct on the multiple photographs of various parts of the gun. But it looks to belong in this era. No Paris address however.
http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/64/lid/534

20396
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. OXFORD ST. LONDON
Descriptions: 20 ga, 26" matted rib damascus barrels choked modified and cylinder with bright excellent bores. The barrels have toned to a pleasing brown patina having a strong damascus pattern. The barrels display a few light handling marks and have a small cluster of pinprick pitting on the right barrel near the muzzle. The breech ends display a light scroll engraving and the rib is maker marked "E.M. REILLY & CO. OXFORD ST. LONDON”. leather luggage style case with a brass plate on lid marked "G.F.H./ 90 LANCASTER GATE/HYDE PARK", the inside has been re-lined in a cardinal red fabric displaying E.M. Reilly manufacturing label
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Sidelever-Double-Hammergun/154-e_m-02.4-amoskeag

20808 -
Name: EM Reilly & Co., London on left and right locks, E.M. Reilly &Co. New Oxford St, London (left barrel); & Rue Scribe, Paris (right barrel)
Descriptions: Rifle, .500 (3") BPE, Rebounding hammers, two folding leaf express sights (100, 200 yds). Side lever action.
Comment: Excellent photos posted at: http://s814.photobucket.com/user/ZSkibo/slideshow/Reilly%20500%20BPE
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=384732

20396 -
Name: E. M. Reilly & Co., Oxford St., London
Descriptions: Cased 20 Gauge E. M. Reilly Sidelever Hammer Double Barrel Shotgun. Serial no. 20396. 20 gauge. 26 1/4 -inch Damascus barrels
Comment:
http://historical.ha.com/itm/shotgun/dou.../a/6073-33262.s

21098 -
Name: E. M. Reilly & Co (no photos or other info from the auctioneer)
Descriptions: 10-bore (2 1/2) bar-action hammer gun SN21098 ; Barrel length: 28” (The barrels may have been shortened.); Chambers: 2 1/2""; Chokes: IC / IC; Material: Damascus; Rib: game; Locks: bar action sidelock hammer; Operating lever: Jones under lever;
Comment: Should have the Paris address
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4559838_e-m-reilly-and-co-10-bore-2-12-bar-action-hamm

21099 -
Name: E.M.Reilly (address not mentioned
Descriptions: A fine 12 bore sidelock hammer gun
Comment:
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/print_sale.aspx?saleid=11106

21304 -
Name: E.M.Reilly & Co (no mention/photo of complete address by auctioneer)
Descriptions: .450/.500 double rifle
Comment:
https://www.gunsamerica.com/980748841/E-M-Reilly-Co-450-500-Double-Rifle.htm

21659 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London
Descriptions: 12-bore hammer gun by E.M. Reilly, no. 21339; Jones patent rotary-underlever, rebounding sidelocks, best foliate-scroll engraving, well-figured stock with recoil-pad, the damascus barrels with game-rib; 30in. barrels, both approx. I.C., 2½in. chambers, London nitro proof
Comment:
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21659/lot/53/

21883
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co (side plates);
Descriptions: 20 ga, 25 1/2" matted rib barrels choked cylinder and cylinder with very good bores having light scattered pitting in both barrels. The barrels display a strong and lovely damascus pattern with the general surfaces toning to a pleasing brown patina, the barrel flats are marked "TATE GMKR IONE CA". The locks, frame and fences have been cleaned long displaying a bright pewter color, they display full coverage foliate scroll engraving; both sides are marked "E.M. REILLY & CO". The rebounding hammers
Comment: Terry Buffum collection; should have the Paris address; It may have been rebreed though.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Sidelock-Double-Hammer-Shotgun/1205-e_m-03.4-amoskeag

22068 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co New Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe a Paris
Descriptions: Double hunting gun, 7cm 8 cal black powder,
Comment: à deux canons en table en damas étoilé mis en couleur tabac avec large bande de visée antireflet gravée E.M. Reilly & Co New Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe a Paris, avec hausse fixe et quatre feuillets gradués jusqu'à 200 mètres, épreuves de Londres sous les tonnerres, extracteur (Long. : 70 cm, cal. 8, poudre noire, chambré 80 mm, poids : 4 725 g). Platines “arrière” jaspées à chien extérieur avec sûreté bleuie au demi-cran d'armé et signées E.M. Reilly & Co. Bascule avec clé anglaise. Crosse pistolet en noyer quadrillé (Long. : 37 cm), bride de renfort, pontet bronzé noir gravé du numéro de série 22068, plaque de couche en fer, longuesse quadrillée avec embout en corne.
http://www.piasa.auction.fr/_en/lot/cara...41#.Vr0MznhQoqY

22093 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co
Descriptions: 12 ga, 30" matted rib barrels choked modified and improved cylinder with bright excellent bores. This is an interesting shotgun utilizing Thomas Woodward's patent action.
Comment: Terry Buffum Collection
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Underlever-Double-Shotgun/430-e_m-02.4-amoskeag

22210 -
Name: E.M. Reilly's 502 Oxford Street
Descriptions: E.M. Reilly & Co shotgun, rebounding hammer gun with bar action locks (fine scroll engraving), non-ejector, Damascus barrels, side-lever, straight hand stock with vacant gold escutcheon, Anson push-rod fore-end jammed in place
Comment:
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30034990

22423 -
Name: E. M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford St. London & Rue Scribe, Paris
Descriptions: Cased E. M. Reilly Bar-in-Wood Hammer Double Barrel Shotgun.
Serial no. 22423. 12 gauge. 30-inch Damascus barrels with game rib; splinter fore-end with Anson release (1872).
Comment:
http://historical.ha.com/itm/shotgun/cas.../a/6119-32428.s

23172 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO., 315 OXFORD ST LONDON. & RUE SCRIBE. PARIS
Descriptions: 12 ga, External Hammer Dual Trigger Side By Side Shotgun with Extractor; The underside of the forend wood is marked “23172”. The underside of the forend metal is marked “W. ANSON / 6912 / PATENT”
Comment: 502 Oxford + Rue Scribe = pre 1881/2.
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/12696769

23574 -
Name: No mention.
Descriptions: bar-in-wood side-lever, 12-bore hammer pigeon gun with two sets of barrels, third bite and scroll engraving. Cased in leather. This was used as his go-to game gun when Cyril Adams visited the UK. 30” Steel barrels.
Comment: Should have Paris and Oxford addresses.
http://www.vintageguns.co.uk/category/guns/page/13/

23746 -
Name: E.M Reilly (no address/photo)
Descriptions: EM Reilly 36 ga black powder proofed pre 1900 back action; hammer gun
Comment: Restoration project from “British and American 410 shotguns” by Ron Gabriel (2003). He doesn’t mention markings on the gun unfortunately. He estimated the age at 1890-1910. The serial number is, however, before the close of the Paris office…thus it is at least pre-1886…possibly 1880 or thereabouts…the gun surely looks pre 1880.
https://books.google.com/books?id=PNZ0f7...gun&f=false

xxxxx - (1882-86)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxfort Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris
Descriptions: I just added this nice EM Reilly to my gun safe the other day. A gent in Texas had it for sale. 28-inch barrels, hammers are non rebounding, perfect bores, nicely engraved on the action, rib, and sight leaves, Jones under lever and heel and toe plates. Should be fun to shoot and not too difficult to come up with an accurate loa
Comment: Frustrating; beautifully cased gun but no SN, no description in the post. the label can’t be made out from the photo. But this heavy bore rifle has the 277 address (1882 on) and the Paris address (before 1886). It looks remarkably like 23746 above.
http://www.calpappas.com/2014/05/double-rifles.html

xxxxx - (1883?)
Name: E.M.Reilly & Co with London & Paris
Descriptions: Cased Cape Gun; 12 bore 30" 174 Side by side damascus barrel + rifled in .577 express cal.
Comment: Nr. 169 in the auction, Beautiful gun but frustrating lack of information. I’ve included it because of the below gun also with no SN but both the 16 Oxford Street (post 1882) and Rue Scribe (Pre 1886) dates. I have a feeling both guns belonged to the same owner and probably were purchased together.
http://gunauction.co.nz/catalogues/38.pdf

xxxxx - (1883?)
Name: E.M.Reilly & Co. 16 New Oxford Street London & Paris
Descriptions: Double barrel muzzle loading?(in a break down rifle??), percussion, hammer gun; Damascus steel 27 1/2” 8 bore SxS rifles.
Comment: The description give me some problems. It sure looks like a pin-fire to me. But those address are significant…no photos. Item 197.
http://gunauction.co.nz/catalogues/39.pdf

23853 -
Name: E M Riley & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris
Descriptions: 12 bore double barreled side by side hammer action shotgun with ornate engraving to the locks and dolphin hammers. 30” Damascus barrels.
Comment:
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auctio...f1-a54600e55727

24354
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO 315 OXFORD STREET LONDON" and the left barrel is stamped "& RUE SCRIEE PARIS COMPRESSED STEEL
Descriptions: 12 ga, 31" matted rib barrels choked improved cylinder and modified with bright near excellent bores having just a few light pits. The barrels are an overall mottled brown patina having remains of some light blue with scattered light pinprick pitting present. The breech ends display a very light geometric engraving and the
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Sidelock-Double-Hammer-Shotgun/310-e_m-02.4-amoskeag

++++++ Refer to subsequent post for SN's above 25,000 to 35650 on page 3 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++ See page 4 for list of Reilly's without SN labeled "xxxxx" + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


25161 - ??? !!!!!!!! 1885 SN with 1880 date on the case !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. 502. NEW OXFORD STREET. LONDON & RUE SCRIBE. PARIS
Descriptions: 25 1/2in. black powder only bold damascus rifled barrels. breech ends with feathered bands and single gold line, individual fore-end with Anson push rod release catch, the iron retaining much original colour-hardening; sidelever action with Purdey 1863 patent double bite, carved percussion fences, rebounding bar locks by Stanton, bar-in-wood, standing breech
Comment: This is a problematic gun for me. The gun was made for King Alphonso XII of Spain. The case is marked “shooting prize 1880”. It was supposedly given by the king as a shooting prize. But the number should be about 1884-85 date range; Yet the address is Pre 1882 - either that or Reilly continued to use his traditional 502 address rather than “16” for reasons of tradition..or the gun was made later to fit the case which was already in Spain…
http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...4&saletype=

25172 -
Name: E.M. Reilly, 575 Oxford St London (sic)
Descriptions: No details
Comment: very vague information. (Oxford Street 502? 277? 295?)
http://www.answers.com/Q/When_was_e_m_re...xford_st_London

25232 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO 502 NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON
Descriptions: E.M. Reilly shotgun, hammer gun with rebounding back-action locks (scroll engraving), Jones screw under-lever, non-ejector, twist barrels, straight hand stock with vacant escutcheon, snap fore-end (not Hackett).
Comment: 502 address. No Paris. Odd.
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30030595

25273 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO., 502, NEW OXFORD ST., LONDON
Descriptions: .450 (3 ¼ in. black powder express) rotary-underlever double-barreled hammer rifle. 28 in. (71 cm.) black powder only blued barrels; double triggers, non automatic safety and extractors. Included is a beavertail forend
Comment: 502, no Paris.
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/arms-...86-details.aspx

25460 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO 277 OXFORD STREET LONDON
Descriptions: 12 ga, 29" matted rib barrels choked full and full. London black powder proofs. Steel barrels. Box lock.
Comment: 277 address post 1882…no Paris?? First gun with a serial number and the 277 address on a rib.
https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=9943&aid=103285&lid=27390372

25516 -
Name: No name mentioned.
Descriptions: E.M Reilly & Co. 12 bore double barreled box lock, side by side ejector shotgun, 28in, barrels
Comment: first “modern” engraved side plates, very abbreviated, ending abruptly behind the breech and just ahead of the trigger guard. I’m wondering if this marks the end of E.M himself supervising operations and perhaps the ideas of H trickling in. He would be 70 years old at this point,
http://www.anthemionauction.com/bidcat/C...1&offset=-1

26218 -
Name: No address mentioned
Descriptions: 12G E.M.Reilly & Co Side by Side Double Trigger Boxlock Non Ejector. Original Case No Safety Action Automatic. 2 1/2″ 65mm Barrel Length 30” Choke True Cylinder
Comment:
Posted by: Geo. Newbern

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/21/16 07:06 PM

Great information Argo. I'm not sure there was any question in your posts, so I'll just comment on the one I own.

My first Brit double was an E.M. Reilly 12ga hammerless boxlock extractor model I bought back in the '90s from Bob Deekins who posted it for sale here on this site. It immediately became my favorite quail gun and remains so today.

Terry Buffum, a poster here and knowledgeable about Reilly said it was a very late serial number likely built after 1900. I've always wondered whether The "maker" actually built any of the guns bearing the name or if they were products of the London trade. I don't believe anyone now knows for sure.

Congratulations on finding one that suits you. Shoot it in good health and welcome to the board...Geo
Posted by: GaryD007

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/21/16 07:33 PM

I have a 10 Bore E M Reilly double rifle 28" Damascus barrels, weight 13 pds 3 oz. Underlever hammer non rebounding hammers fully engraved. serial number 16585. Stamped on bottom of barrels EMR and on the bottom rib L1963. barrels engraved E M Reilly & Co Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris.
I also have an 8 Bore E M Reilly underlever hammer double rifle. Rebounding hammers serial number 30245. E M Reilly engraved on lock plates, no engraving on barrels, although the address could have been polished off as the damascus barrels were rebrowned in England. Border engraved, groove diameter .8354. case length 3 1/4"
Twist about 52" weight 16 pds 8.8 oz.
Posted by: bonny

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/21/16 08:36 PM

I don't have any real input on the subject of E.M. Reilly and co as gunmakers. I do have an interesting and useless little snippit of trivia for you though.

Reilly took over the premises of 2 rue scribe in Paris. The person who leased or rented the same address immediately previously to Reilly was an American man by the name of Adam Worth. Worth was a man of high intellect and intelligence, and he was also a master criminal wanted on both sides of the Atlantic.

This man Worth, was the person that Arthur Conan Doyle based "The Napoleon of crime" aka "Professor Moriarty" on in his Sherlock Holmes stories. It is believed Worth used the premises as a casino and front for his crimes.

Told you it was trivia, but there you go.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/21/16 08:38 PM

Gary, I got your 16585 - see above and a link to your post. I didn't have the 30245...It should be after Rue Scribe closed (1886) and before 16 Oxford Street Closed (1898); it could have had either the 16 or 277 Oxford street address. Since it's midway between 26584 (last number I can find with the Paris address - 1886) and 34723 (last number I can find with the 16 Oxford Street address - 1898)...say 1892 manufacture date?

I'm pretty sure Reilly placed no Reilly serial numbers on guns that were not at least ordered through him although he did put his name on guns he sold. I can base this on a Winchester he sold, a Sharpes, the Comblains and a couple of other examples. There is a unity in his stocks, engraving, and general feel that would indicate that if he didn't make them himself, he sure exercised strict quality control over the product. I'm inclined to think that at the very least he finished everything in his building.

Oh I've found an engraved bayonette and an engraved sword with his name on it.

Bonny, great bit of trivia. I actually researched the supposed Reilly shop in St. Honore in Paris (I speak French and have a French wife)...Paris - heck Europe - is full of these stories and this one was apt.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/21/16 09:07 PM

George, I got you gun as well 35472 - check it out above. It is after 35423, the first gun I can find with 295 Oxford Street on it....i.e. 1903/4. So Your's must have had the 295 Oxford address on it....likely 1904? Note: I found a later serial number.. But I sort of quit looking after 1904. The Rileys from 1917 on seem to have added a digit in front of their numbers...they are 6 digit numbers,

I've kept all the pictures I can find for comparisons and have linked each serial number with the site where I found it. If anyone wants to do more researh - look at the photos attached to those sites - you'll be impressed with their beauty and elegance.)
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/21/16 09:38 PM

Might as well share one more bit of info. There is a site which is searching for missing guns which were made as pairs. They have all sorts of makers...Churchill, Holland and Holland (really a who's who of English gun makers). They posted these serial number for Reilly's (I believe Riley is a misspelling - they look like E.M Reilly SN's). So at least these guns likely had a mate.

http://www.matchedpairs.com/seeking_list.php

Reilly
27785, 27786, 27787, 33859, 231559 (probably 31559), 33915, 535521 (probably 35521), (1st three guns look like triples)

Riley
1832, 24956, 25723, 27854, 30364, 30486, 32941, 33240, 33265, 33889, 35134, 35156, 35350, 35572, 35631,
Posted by: trw999

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/22/16 05:29 AM

Well done on the research Argo44. I too am a veteran, British Army.

I often toddle off to the British Library to look up old shooting journals such The Field, Arms & Explosives, The Sporting Goods Review. Let me know if you'd like me to look up any particular issue.

Tim
Posted by: Stan

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/22/16 07:21 AM

Welcome to the board, Argo. It is not often that a new poster comes along with as much information to offer as you have. Well done. No one is an expert on all makes of guns, but you are to be well into the learning curve with the Reillys.

Thank you for your career of service to our country, and for the information posted here. Let us know of your first blood with the Reilly. Greg (gjw) starts a "hunting pictures thread" here each fall..........a good place to put them.

All my best, SRH
Posted by: lagopus

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/22/16 12:14 PM

Looks like you have spent some time on research; excellent work. Ever thought of putting it all in to book form? Reilly guns were sometimes forged as I acquired one once. I knew what was and was given it. Totally un-restorable and nothing like the work turned out by Reilly himself although it might have fooled a blind man. I de-activated it as a wall-piece for someone. May have a photo somewhere on file.

Still slightly in shock about the pump action at a game shoot. Welcome to the board. Lagopus.....
Posted by: Toby Barclay

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/22/16 02:39 PM

Argo44, I sold 35079 a few years back but checked my listing and the address was 277 Oxford Street.
However the proof marks showed the gun was probably PROOFED pre-1896 so maybe made for stock and then finished and numbered accordingly.
Also have in my rack 18536, a 20b backaction hammergun. Jones Rotary Underlever, 30" Damascus barrels, horrid replacement wood, cross bolt forend, nice bold foliate engraving. Barrels out of proof and slotted. 6094 stamped on short rib. Top rib engraving illegible.
Congratulations for having put this information together.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/22/16 03:46 PM

==================================================================================================
35079 (1900)



Thanks Toby - I've fixed 35079 on the list. It's interesting that the barrels were proofed pre-1896; Per the serial number you'd think it should have been numbered/finished about 1901-02 or so, depending on how many guns Reilly was selling (per a later post below, it looks as if he were selling about 130 per year from 1898-1903). If Reilly stockpiled barrels and actions, maybe that was how they were able to respond to orders with alacrity.

I also wonder if Reilly started falling on hard times about this time. EM had died and he was highly respected apparently and quite a marketing genius. There are a number of SN's in the 35000's per above which were matched pair double-guns, which would seem to indicate not everything was going right (did Reilly's sons start pillaging its stocks to create "matched pairs?).

Sales of numbered guns had declined from an average of 650/year to 130/yr. And I can't find any number above 35631 (listed as a matched pair above)(was this a sale? two for the price of one?).

Well, the industry was changing; it must have been hard to compete with the factories. Damascus barrels were oh so 19th century. (and there was a smear campaign being waged against them which continues to this day). A way of life was ending.

I also added 18536 to the list.
Posted by: GaryD007

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/22/16 04:36 PM

Argo thanks a lot for your information, excellent work! My 8 Bore Reilly double rifle looks almost exactly the same as the large Manton 8 Bore double rifles. Did Reilly buy his guns unfinished then finish them or were they bought from a sourch like W C Scott? I have read that some people thought Reilly was not a "gunmaker" but just a retailer.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/22/16 07:56 PM

==================================================================================================
30295. (1888)


Gary, re your 8 bore (30295), there are a lot of rifled guns posted in the list of serial numbers (17343, 18766, 18954, 20808, 21305 ...27847, 28861, 30791..etc.). I've included links...most of those have photos. Click on them and compare. Check out especially 26733, an 8 bore restoration project I believe. (I just checked the link...it's just a question with no photos.check some of the other big guns..). Also I think I included a couple of guns that were in a New Zealand auction...without serial numbers. One had a 12 ga shotgun barrel coupled with a Rifle barrel.

A lot of ink has been spilled on whether Reilly's made their own guns. After playing around with this for a while...and I am not an expert....using logic, I think they did. They did not put serial numbers on guns they were only marketing though they would put their names. And there is a unity to what they produced. they may have ordered components and assembled them - certainly that Martini with the Reilly Serial Number 17xxx used Enfield parts but they were put together by Reilly. (There are makers today redoing 1911 .45's and using their own names).

And somewhere I saw a picture of his building at 502 Oxford Street. I can't find it at the moment but it was a substantial 4 story building, far larger than you'd need to just conduct a business. (the picture is an engraving off an early label and I'm wrong...I don't think you could set up lathes and woodworking equipment in that building) . JC and EM always identified themselves as "gun makers" (or "gun manufacturers") and in one census claimed to have 300 employees. That building could have housed a couple of hundred I'd think.

Unless someone with access to the Royal Museum and libraries (trw999 ???) can do some more digging that's about the extent of what I can say. It's just a feeling but the guns that came out of his building had a certain flavor (I looked at 100's of photos over the past couple of months) (and if you want to have fun and really be energized...click on those links) and whether he founded and welded the damascus barrels himself is sort of like asking if Jeep really did build the carburetors for their vehicles in Toledo, Ohio; and in fact I'm wondering if substantial firms like Holland and Holland had their own foundries - logic and economics says they couldn't and didn't - or if they ordered barrels then put them together. (I'm getting way out of my depth here and will defer to people who know).

One more thought, Reilly stocks were always interesting and he used a lot of French wood apparently...this was commented on regularly long before others started use interestingly veined woods.. My gun is an example.
Posted by: GaryD007

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/23/16 07:03 AM

Argo, I looked at the proof marks on my 8 Bore double rifle and they are London marks. Reilly could have made his own guns at that time, but my rifle looks almost identical to the Holland 8 Bores and Manton 8 Bores. A lot of the Holland rifles of that period (before 1893 when Holland built their factory) were made by W & C Scott. Holland or Reilly might have bought partially finished guns and finished them in their London facilities. Roberts (an out source stocker) also did a lot of stocking for Hollands and the trade. By the way, I am selling the 10 Bore Reilly double rifle to a good friend. The quality of that rifle is equal to any Purdey or Holland that I have owned. Thanks again Argo, and for your military service!
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/23/16 11:00 PM

I've updated a few things.

-- An advertisement in Bell's Life in London and Sporting Chronicle London, England
13 Jun 1841: JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY, GUN-MAKER. 316, High Holborn, London, respectfully informs gentlemen that his stock will be found to comprise the best assortment in London, double and single fowling pieces ; double and single rifles, double guns, with one barrel

-- Found advertisements for Reilly air guns dated 1845.

-- Advertisements for Reilly's from 1858 (proving he used the 502 Oxford St. Address) to1868 (with gold medals from the 1867 Parish exhibition - proving he opened 2 Scribe in at least early 1868)
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/E._M._Reilly_and_Co

-- a law suit relating to 277 Oxford Street in 1889 which seems to indicate Edward was still vital and in charge,

-- and some beautiful guns made by Joseph... including some muzzle loading pistols which show early-on the Reilly feel..and may even have serial numbers relating to the long guns.

Click on #3329 I just added made by Joseph Reilly - that is a quintessential Reilly gun in a very early state...look at the wood in the stocks, the outline and engraving. Look at those barrels...they could be the same as mine in my 1898 gun!!. " An apple doesn't fall far from its tree." This has to be a "date marker" gun..it is just (in 2000 newspeak) "so so Reilly".
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22403/lot/5482/

Also on this 1830's double gun by Joseph Reilly I've added above - no SN.. - now that is a double gun in a state that would rival any of the big 5!! Same comment on the barrels.
https://www.barnebys.com/auctions/lot/32...charles-reilly/

I'm not interested in the hand guns but here are two made by Joseph Reilly that may be apt - the early hand guns may have followed the Reilly numbering system - check out the workmanship and engraving,

1292
http://www.garthvincent.com/antique/1597/a+miniature+pocket+pistol/
A Miniature 120-Bore Box-Lock Percussion Pocket Pistol By Reilly of London, Circa 1850. (comment: that date is surely wrong by 25 years at least)

xxxx
http://www.aaawt.com/html/firearms/f296.html
This .50 caliber pistol with a 10-inch octagonal barrel measures 15-inches in overall length.

Also Wikipedia has interesting comments on pin-fire breech loaders. They give credit to Hodges for introducing the French system to a Franco-phobic England after 1851 and mentioned Reilly but we've shown that Reilly was exhibiting breechloaders at the 1851 fair.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/26/16 09:48 PM

==================================================================================================
1847 - Reilly and the 5000 SN gap


I've looked at a lot of JC and EM Reilly pistols. There are a number of pistols labeled JC Reilly using variations of the Holborn address and Reilly using variations of the Oxford Street address. The early ones are percussion pistols..later ones included double-barrel, four barrel, pepper-boxes, and revolvers of various types. Some have Birmingham proof marks; others are clearly marketed from Tanter or Colt, even Smith and Wesson.

Most have no Reilly serial numbers (even when coupled with the Holborn or Oxford Street addresses). But a couple do...and they are so evidently early JC Reilly, Holborn manufacture and they seem to fit so well into the serial number narrative that it may be that some pistols were indeed numbered and were included in the very early Reilly serial number chronology,

One of the most important pairs with a very early 3 digit serial number 176 - if these pistols followed the long-gun Reilly format for numbering - and they look very much like it should be so - was just sold by Terry Buffum. In fact, of the three of four SN's with "Holborn Bars" imprinted on them when he was at 12 Middle row, 1814-1835), three are pistols. Did did Reilly really start out making mostly pistols?

I've added a couple above...with the designation "pistol" so that it will be clear. There are markers for these early Reilly pistols...rounded butts, engraving etc.

And there is a significant gap between the last Holborn address/serial number (3329 - 1847 at the latest) and the first confirmed Oxford Street address (SN 8463 - 1847 at the earliest- and which has "Removed from Holborn" in the label on the case). It seems to me that EM and JC Reilly would be unlikely to continue to use "removed from Holborn" for more than a couple of years after the move.

This gap needs more data to investigate why this happened. At least one writer asserted that EM took over JC's numbering system upon transfer to Oxford Street about SN 8400, which may mean Edward just jumped up the queue by 5,000 numbers, maybe to make the firm look more substantial or to distance himself from Guns JC made which were not numbered.


There are "mystery" percussion rifles and shotguns out there with the Reilly name and the Oxford Street address but with no reported serial numbers. (the pistols at least by 1847 don't have serial numbers worth looking into). Surely there are guns that could solve this "Bermuda Triangle" gap of some 5,000 "missing" serial numbers... i.e. 1847 - 1855 plus or minus. this could have huge repercussions on dating...i.e. 84** numbers move back from 1855 to 1847-50 time frame.
Posted by: cadet

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/27/16 01:57 AM

There's a power of work so far there - a decent DGJ article - or series - or even, nearly, a book's worth. Well done!
I haven't seen many Reilly's, but of those I have seen, they've all been very high quality guns.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/27/16 12:32 PM

As I add serial numbers, looks like I've run out of allowed space on the comment; it's knocking serial numbers off the bottom of the list. I'll repost Serial numbers after 25,000 here (SN 25,000 should be around 1884-1885 assuming 650 SN guns per year being made at the time): (!!!!!!!!!!!!! = date marker serial numbers)

++++++ Continuation of previous post for SN's 162 to 25161 on page 1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++ See page 4 for list of Reilly's without SN labeled "xxxxx" + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



25161 - ??? !!!!!!!! 1885 SN with 1880 date on the case !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. 502. NEW OXFORD STREET. LONDON & RUE SCRIBE. PARIS
Descriptions: 25 1/2in. black powder only bold damascus rifled barrels. breech ends with feathered bands and single gold line, individual fore-end with Anson push rod release catch, the iron retaining much original colour-hardening; sidelever action with Purdey 1863 patent double bite, carved percussion fences, rebounding bar locks by Stanton, bar-in-wood, standing breech
Comment: This is a problematic gun for me. The gun was made for King Alphonso XII of Spain. The case is marked “shooting prize 1880”. It was supposedly given by the king as a shooting prize. But the number should be about 1884-85 date range; Yet the address is Pre 1882 - either that or Reilly continued to use his traditional 502 address rather than “16” for reasons of tradition..or the gun was made later to fit the case which was already in Spain…
http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...4&saletype=

25172 -
Name: E.M. Reilly, 575 Oxford St London (sic)
Descriptions: No details
Comment: very vague information. (Oxford Street 502? 277? 295?)
http://www.answers.com/Q/When_was_e_m_re...xford_st_London

25232 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO 502 NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON
Descriptions: E.M. Reilly shotgun, hammer gun with rebounding back-action locks (scroll engraving), Jones screw under-lever, non-ejector, twist barrels, straight hand stock with vacant escutcheon, snap fore-end (not Hackett).
Comment: 502 address. No Paris. Odd.
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30030595

25273 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO., 502, NEW OXFORD ST., LONDON
Descriptions: .450 (3 ¼ in. black powder express) rotary-underlever double-barreled hammer rifle. 28 in. (71 cm.) black powder only blued barrels; double triggers, non automatic safety and extractors. Included is a beavertail forend
Comment: 502, no Paris.
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/arms-...86-details.aspx

25460 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO 277 OXFORD STREET LONDON
Descriptions: 12 ga, 29" matted rib barrels choked full and full. London black powder proofs. Steel barrels. Box lock.
Comment: 277 address post 1882…no Paris?? First gun with a serial number and the 277 address on a rib.
https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=9943&aid=103285&lid=27390372

25516 -
Name: No name mentioned.
Descriptions: E.M Reilly & Co. 12 bore double barreled box lock, side by side ejector shotgun, 28in, barrels
Comment: first “modern” engraved side plates, very abbreviated, ending abruptly behind the breech and just ahead of the trigger guard. I’m wondering if this marks the end of E.M himself supervising operations and perhaps the ideas of H trickling in. He would be 70 years old at this point,
http://www.anthemionauction.com/bidcat/C...1&offset=-1

26218 -
Name: No address mentioned
Descriptions: 12G E.M.Reilly & Co Side by Side Double Trigger Boxlock Non Ejector. Original Case No Safety Action Automatic. 2 1/2″ 65mm Barrel Length 30” Choke True Cylinder
Comment:
www.aaronwheelergunsmith.co.uk/product/e...h.CWlOUkU9.dpuf

26584 - (1886) !!!!!!!!!!! Last SN w/both London & Paris !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name: Label on case…EM REILLY & CO. 16, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON,
Branch Establishment, Rue Scribe, Paris.
Descriptions: This is an original case with an original label. Handwritten on the label is “26584” and the date “1886”
Comment: Could this be a fake, perhaps an old case with a new label? The case and label look real. If so, 16 Oxford Street = post 1881/2….Paris address = 1886 max. Thus, this SN gun mentioned on the label may be the last gun EM made before the Paris office closed. And why did the Paris office close? EM was 70 years old…he had to be declining at this point.

26733 -
Name: E.M. Reilly (no full address mentioned?)
Descriptions: 8 bore fully rifled barrel, crystal indicator, hammerless, E.M. REILLY
Comment:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=270014&start=20

26957 -
Name: E. M. REILLY & CO. 16 NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON
Descriptions: Sir John Scott’s E.M Reilly & Co 8-bore (82mm) single-barreled rotary-underlever hammergun, serial no 26957, 36 1/8in. nitro reproved fine damascus barrel, octagonal breech. ones patent rotary underlever, carved percussion fence, rebounding back-action lock,
Comment: Note- 16 New Oxford Street, no Paris address.
http://www.thefield.co.uk/country-house/...olts-sale-26358

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/fullcatalogue.asp?salelot=A1214+++1592+&refno=

27570 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & OXFORD STREET LONDON & PARIS
Descriptions: 16 ga, 29" solid rib damascus barrels choked cylinder and cylinder with bright excellent bores. The barrels show a lovely damascus pattern, the surfaces have toned to a pleasing brown patina having some added lacquer varnish throughout. The rib displays a small scroll engraving
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Sidelock-Double-Hammer-Shotgun/631-e_m-02.4-amoskeag

27687 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. (address not mentioned)
Descriptions: 20-BORE HAMMER GUN, NO. 27687; 26-inch barrels with 2 1/2-inch chambers, about improved cylinder and 1/4 choke borings, full length file-cut rib, the frame, non re-bounding backlocks, hammers and rotary underlever with lined border engraving, 14 1/2-inch figured stock with pistol grip, sling eyes, 7lb. 4oz., nitro proof, bores pitted. Possibly converted from a rifle
Comment:
http://www.gavingardiner.com/bidcat/Cata...&offset=240

27847 -
Name: Not mentioned
Descriptions: 450 bore express. under-lever ejection, rebounding hammers.
Comment:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=270014

2804? -
Name: Not mentioned
Descriptions: Began life as a single shot rifle and was sleeved to a 410 with permanent low temperature Timken 4140 CV, Ken Eister tested 28” 1/2 Octagon 1/2 round single trigger ejector splinter forearm.
Comment: Serial number from photo; last digit unclear.
http://www.stevebarnettfineguns.com/asp-bin/Detail.asp?ID=9415#

286xx -
Name: E. M. REILLY (Address not mentioned or photographed
Descriptions: E.M. Reilly side by side, side-locks; caliber: 12/65; Stock length: 36.5 cm; Barrel length: 71 cm; Chokes 1/2, 1/4
Comment:
http://www.jachtspeciaalzaak.nl/index.php/en/2014-08-10-17-51-37/hagelgeweren/e.m.reilly-detail

28861 -
Name: E. M. REILLY & CO.  277 OXFORD STREET. LONDON
Descriptions: 2-bore top-lever hammergun with 30" nitro reproved damascus barrels, Treble-grip action with carved percussion fences, rebounding locks
Comment: Both 16 Oxford Street and 277 Oxford Street were still open. Paris had closed
http://josephsvintageguns.com/gun-details.asp?gun=323

30166 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 10 New Oxford Street, London *(probably16).
Descriptions: 12 bore hammer shotgun, Damascus barrels, rebounding hamers.
Comment:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...6662f0f6382a0a3

30207
Name: E.M REILLY & CO. 277 OXFORD STREET. LONDON. IMPROVED PATENT.
Descriptions: 10 ga, 32 1/4" matted rib damascus barrels having very good bright bores having some light fouling present. The barrels display a nice damascus pattern that is slightly thinning, the remaining surfaces have toned to a pleasing brown patina having a few light specks of pin prick pitting. The breech ends are lightly engraved in a geometric engraving, the dolls head extension is engraved in a light foliate scroll engraving and the rib is marked "E.M REILLY & CO. 277 OXFORD STREET. LONDON. IMPROVED PATENT."
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Boxlock-Double-Barrel-Shotgun/151-e_m-02.4-amoskeag

30245 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London
Descriptions: 8 bore hammer underlever. With 24 ¼ in. (61.6 cm.) rebrowned twist black powder only barrels, action with carved fences and doll's head extension, rebounding back-action locks, figured 14 in. pistolgrip stock including extension, weight 16 lbs. 8 ¾ oz
Comment:
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auctio...sti10298?page=3

30257 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., no address
Descriptions: Boxlock 12 ga. shotgun, double trigger; Damascus 30” barrels; 2 1/2 chambers; Gold inlay, old-inlaid 'S' detail, border and acanthus scroll engraving, beautiful engaving.
Comment: No Paris address = post 1886; 16 Oxford Street - pre 1898.
https://www.guntrader.uk/Guns-For-Sale/E-M-Reilly-Co-London_Shotgun_For-Sale_140509105318001

30260 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. 16 NEW OXFORD STREET. LONDON
Descriptions: 12 bore, boxlock, double triggers, 30” Steel barrels. Reproofed 2 3/4. Gold inlay. old-inlaid 'S' detail, border and acanthus scroll engraving,
Comment: The engraving and layout of 257 and 260 are so identical that one must think they are a pair, the only difference being the barrels.
http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...7&saletype=

30436 -
Name: Not mentioned in ad
Descriptions: 380 Single-barreled percussion Park Rifle by Reilly, Item No. 10619, an unusual W.W. Greener 12-bore boxlock ejector gun
Comment: Christies as usual stingy with their info; no photo
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/print_sale.aspx?saleid=10537

30456 -
Name: Not mentioned in Terry’s article
Descriptions: 12 gauge, double trigger, 30” damascus barrels.
Comment: Terry Weiland restoration project, Gun Digest, 2014, p.152; the set up and engraving look very much like 30260 ad 30257 except it isn’t gold.
https://books.google.com/books?id=xaQtAA...ers&f=false

30791 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford St, London
Descriptions: .380, 2 1/4” BP Express; 28” SxS barrels with full flat matted rib, fine bead front sight, and four folding express sights
Comment: Engraving, layout similar to the “modern group” 30257, 30260, 30456.
http://www.hallowellco.com/double.htm

30846 -
Name: E.M Reilly - rest not mentioned in the ad.
Descriptions: 450 BPE, 28” steel barrels, double gun, double triggers.
Comment: “modern” group side plates
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/108/385.h...paign=108Eblast

32665 -
Name: E. M. Reilly (full address not mentioned in either ad)
Descriptions: 12 gauge. Shortened 29 3/4-inch Damascus barrels. Game rib with locking doll's head. Case-hardened boxlock action, fully engraved with fine foliate scroll. Ejectors. Automatic safety. Checkered straight stock of dark figured walnut. Later sold again and described as: 12-bore boxlock SxS sporting gun circa 1912, serial number 32665; case-hardened action fully engraved with fine foliate scroll, checkered straight stock of dark figured walnut with vacant silver oval and thick horn buttplate, checkered splinter forend with Anson release, ejectors, automatic safety, game rib with locking doll's head, shortened Damascus barrels choked Improved cylinders
Comment: “modern” side plates.
http://www.collectorebooks.com/gregg01/shotgun3/lot-748-.htm

http://www.charltonhallauctions.com/auction-lot-detail/E.M.-Reilly-12-bore-boxlock-SxS-sporting-gun-***Subject-to-S&salelot=256++++++++5+&refno=+++72988


32667 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON.”
Descriptions: 12 ga, 30" damacus barrels choked about modified and full with bright bores having a few very light pits on the right barrel. The barrels display a strong and lovely damascus pattern and have toned to a pleasing brown patina having a small ding on the right barrel 7" from the muzzle. The top of the rib near the breech face is lightly engraved and the rib is marked.
Comment: Terry Buffum Collection
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Boxlock-Double-Ejector-Gun/656-e_m-02.4-amoskeag

32974
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.
Descriptions: 12 ga, 30" matted rib barrels choked cylinder and cylinder with very good lightly pitted bores. The barrels retain 98% of their professional re-applied blue finish. The left barrel is marked "E.M. REILLY & CO (BALL & SHOT GUN)" and the right barrel is marked "16 NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON". The Anson & Deeley's boxlock frame has toned to a dull gray patina frame is embellished in a filigree scroll engraving having about 85% coverage, both sides are marked "E.M. REILLY & CO LONDON".
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Boxlock-Double-Shotgun/1338-e_m-03.4-amoskeag

33858 -
Name: E.M. Reilly (full address not mentioned in ad or in photo.
Descriptions: 12 bore, SxS, double trigger, box lock shotgun. 28” steel barrels
Comment: “Traditional” side plates.
http://www.rwardgunmakers.com/guns/33858-e-m-reilly.htm

33922 -
Name: E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned in ad or photo)
Descriptions: 30-inch damascus barrels with 2 1/2-inch chambers, about improved cylinder and full choke boring, doll’s head extension, the frame, back action bar lock and top lever with bouquet and scroll engraving
Comment:
http://www.gavingardiner.com/bidcat/detail.asp?SaleRef=0015&LotRef=180

33950 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. 16. NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON
Descriptions: side lock SxS ejector Serial# 33950; It has nitro proofed fluid steel barrels & 2 1/2" chambers
Comment:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=283480

34164 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Rd., London
Descriptions: 12 ga, SxS shotgun.
Comment: No photo or additional info
http://www.justanswer.com/firearms/5w9gj...blebarrell.html

34247
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. 16 NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON
Descriptions: 12 ga (2 1/2"), 30 1/4" matted rib barrels choked modified and cylinder with bright excellent bores. The barrels display a stunning damascus pattern with the overall surfaces toning to a pleasing brown patina. The breech ends are engraved in a nice geometric engraving and the rib displays wedges of open scroll, the rib is marked "E.M. REILLY & CO. 16 NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON". The gun features double triggers, automatic safety and ejectors.
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Boxlock-Double-Ejectorgun/155-e_m-02.4-amoskeag

34478 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co. (full address not mentioned in ad or photo - case label indecipherable)
Descriptions: boxlock ejector shotgun no. 34478. 30” x 2 1⁄2 “ Damascus barrels (nitro proofed). 15” stock with leather butt pad. In its carrying case.
Comment: “Modern” side plates.
http://www.welsharms.co.uk/cats/Welsharms%20Catalogue%20-%2019th%20April%202015.pdf

https://www.guntrader.uk/Guns-For-Sale/EMReilly-Co-London_Shotgun_-_For-Sale_150428134631001

34523 -
Name: E.M. Reilly (full address not mentioned in ad - no photo)
Descriptions: side by side, 12 ga. x 2 3/4 shotgun, box lock, 30 in. barrel, checkered grip and fore end
Comment:
http://www.maynards.com/media/components/ams/events/AAKNE100513/AntiquesCatalog.pdf


34221
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London. (E.M. Reilly & Co, 315 Oxford Street, London (case). (re the case label, this is16 years after 315 Oxford street was renumbered; the label may be a reproduction).
Descriptions: 16 bore x 450 No. 2 Musket, 29 3/4" barrels with very good bores. This is an interesting set of guns which feature seven leaf express sights and are on the plainer side, being working guns. The actions and back action locks show only light border engraving. The barrels are each engraved with the 16 New Oxford Street address. The guns feature rebounding hammers and full pistolgrip walnut stocks.
Comment: Terry Buffum collection ; one of a pair, see below.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/Case...y-02.4-amoskeag

34222
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London. (E.M. Reilly & Co, 315 Oxford Street, London (case). (re the case label, this is16 years after 315 Oxford street was renumbered; the label may be a reproduction).
Descriptions: 16 bore x 450 No. 2 Musket, 29 3/4" barrels with very good bores. This is an interesting set of guns which feature seven leaf express sights and are on the plainer side, being working guns. The actions and back action locks show only light border engraving. The barrels are each engraved with the 16 New Oxford Street address. The guns feature rebounding hammers and full pistolgrip walnut stocks.
Comment: Terry Buffum collection; one of a pair, see above
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/Case...y-02.4-amoskeag

34572 -
Name: E.M Reilly & Co. (full address not mentioned in ad or photos)
Descriptions: E.M. Reilly & Co. 12 g. BEST Side lock ejector with 30” Damascus barrels; 2 1/2 chamber.
Comment: Classic side panels.
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100601796

34582 -
Name: E.M. Reilly (no address mentioned in ad or photo)
Descriptions: 12 guage, SxS, double trigger, hammer-gun, 28” steel barrels. bar action rebounding locks. Fully engraved . The barrels were sleeved in 1986
Comment:
http://www.heritageguns.net/guns.php?id=506

34723 - (1898?) !!!!!!!!!Last SN with 16 Oxford St!!!!!!!!!!!!! (My gun)
Name: E.M Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London
Descriptions: 12 gauge, SxS, shotgun; 30” Damascus barrels, rebounding hammers. Author’s gun.
Comment: This may be one of the last Reilly’s made or sold at the 16 New Oxford street address. Can find no later examples.

34865 -
Name: E.M Reilly & Co., 277 New Oxford St. London (photos are hazy but pretty sure)
Descriptions: A best E M Reilly , London 12 bore boxlock ejector (BLE) side by side shotgun , double triggers , chequered straight hand figured walnut stock with teardrops , matched extension , vacant silver lozenge and chequered butt . The action , tang , top lever, flat rib , trigger guard and push - rod mount decorated with fine border and foliate scroll engraving . 30" nitro proof steel barrels with doll's head extension and 2 3/4" chambers.
Comment:
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auctio...9a-a44a00e4518e

35079 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned/photogaphed)
Descriptions: 12bore, SLE, 30” Damascus barrels, 2 3/4 Notro Proof. 3/4” leather recoil pad. Southgate's back action sidelock design and features: Back action 9 pin locks with interceptor sears, Top lever operating a Mills 3rd bite and a Purdey Bolt by way of a Scott Spindle, Double triggers bolted by an automatic top tang safety slide, Southgate ejectors tripped by sprung plates rocking in the bar of action and Anson's push rod forend c
Comment: Traditional side plates. Beautiful photos but noting on the address.
http://www.heritageguns.co.uk/back-catalogue.htm

35423 - (1904?) !!!!!!!!First SN with 295 Oxford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co" , 295 Oxford Street in London
Descriptions: Box Lock ejector, #2 of a pair. 30" barrels, 2 1/2" chambers and is nitro proofed, steel barrels.
Comment: “modern” side plates. First SN confirmed with th 295 Oxford address. The Reilly’s moved from 277 to 294 in 1903.
http://stonehengearms.co.uk/shotguns/

35458 -
Name: E. M. Reilly & Co (address not mentioned in ad)
Descriptions: SxS 12 bore Shotgun, boxlock (ejector A/F), double trigger, steel barrels
Comment:
http://www.brightwells.com/AntiquesAndFi...istChangePage=2

35472 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.
Descriptions: boxlock is numbered 35472. Terry Buffum told me in 2003 that it was the highest number he'd noted in his research, and that it likely dated to the early 1900s
Comment: My gun's a 'sleever' so it has no address on the rib
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=283480

35493 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co. BARRELS BY ELDERKIN & SON (GUN MAKERS) LTD SPALDING
Descriptions: serial #35493, 16 ga, 28" matted rib barrels both choked improved cylinder with bright excellent bores. The barrels retain 95% of its professionally reapplied blue finish having loss on the high edges of the rib and a few light handling marks. The top of the rib is marked "BARRELS BY ELDERKIN & SON (GUN MAKERS) LTD SPALDING". Terry Buffum .
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=9943&aid=103285&lid=27390499

35551 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co,m 295 Oxford Street, London
Descriptions: A .300 hammer rook-rifle by E.M. Reilly & Co., no. 35551/2959
Sidelever, rebounding hammer, the sides of the action-body with the makers name engraved in a scrolling banner surrounded by bold foliate-scrollwork, much blued finish, figured stock with semi-pistol grip, horn-capped forend, the octagonal barrel, engraved E.M. Reilly & Co., 295 Oxford St., London, with open-sights, sighted for 50, 100 and 150 yards, and bead-foresight
Comment:
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/17946/lot/42/

35678 -
Name: E.M. Reilly (no address mentioned in ad)
Descriptions: E.M. Reilly 12-bore boxlock side by side sporting gun [double barrel hammerless shotgun, 12 gauge] circa 1905, serial number 35678; case-hardened action..
Comment: “Modern” highly engrave side plates.
http://www.prices4antiques.com/Shotgun-Reilly-EM-12-Gauge-Box-Lock-Side-by-Side-E8953320.html
Posted by: Terry Buffum

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/27/16 05:21 PM

Typo error above. 35482 should be 34582

Sequence is correct
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/27/16 08:08 PM

Thanks Terry - fixed. I'll add more of your Reilly's after the April sale when I can look at the SN's and details.

And looking at the matched set of pistols you sold, SN 176...I can't help but think these were actually a couple of the very earliest JC Reilly's. Pistol SN's for Reilly are problematic but...these look appropriate. Did both pistols have the same SN?
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/27/16 10:06 PM

J.C. Reilly gets play in a recent French Novel.. at least his air-guns did.... "Le Coiffeur de Chateaubriand", 2010 ( text below without the French diacritical marks)

"Le Page commande les siennes a Longera; l'adresse de son fournisseur est écrite en letters d'or dans la feutrine de la boite élégante que j veins d'apporter a la maison: "Joseph Charles Reilly -- 316, Higl Holborn." Ma decision est prse. Reste a ne pas rate ma cible. Il doit mourir sans que je puisse être inquiète."

Translation more or less. Page (the store) ordered these from London. The address of the suppliers was written in gold letters on the elegant gun case which I had just carried home. "Joseph Charles Reilly - 316 High Holborn." My decision was taken. Unless I missed my target. He must die before I could be at peace.

https://books.google.com/books?id=xf2rBg...and&f=false
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/29/16 08:31 PM

For what it's worth, I became curious about the buildings occupied by the Reilly firm:
12 Chancery Lane (near High Holborn)
316 High Holborn
502 (now16) New Oxford street
315 (now 277) Oxford Street
295 Oxford Street
2 rue Scribe, Paris.
13 High Street, Marylebone

There are prints of the building at 502 Oxford Street on early 1850's Reilly labels. I checked them out on Map.google. All of these buildings are apparently still standing with theexception of Chancery Lane which was knocked down in about 1870 to improve traffic flow. And they are impressive. Google will even take you into the lobby/bar/office of some of them. These were not "fly by night" premises.
Posted by: George L.

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/29/16 11:26 PM

My E.M. Reilly is a 4 gauge hammer double with 36 inch Damascus Barrels that came to me in it's original leather trunk case with the label "E.M. REILLY 502 NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON BRANCH ESTABLISHMENT 2 RUE SCRIBE PARIS" It originally made as a pinfire but converted long ago to centerfire. It weighs in a 28 pounds. SN is 15625. What year would you estimate that it was made?

Best Regards, George
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/01/16 12:57 PM

==================================================================================================
15625 (1869)

EDIT: with a new start number for rue scribe 14983 and the new closure date for rue Scribe July 1885, the date for George's gun is bumped up to early 1869.

George, I got your gun, it's in the list above (check it out chronologically by serial number), and I followed all the comments on it (some of those comments are pretty bitter..typical internet) and looked it up on your site when I started looking into Reilly's in January.. I can be almost 100% sure it was serial numbered in 1868 - quite possibly in September or October.

Any serial number from about 15250 to 15750 should be 1868 and have the Paris address - at least on the label - that was a prestige thing and his advertisements at the time featured the gold medals won at the Paris exhibition). Here is the analysis:

-- 15270 is the first mention of the Paris address on a gun rib that I've found so far making it early 1868 - (he opened Rue Scribe after his huge success at the Paris exhibition held in Summer 1867 sometime in late January - early February 1868). As confirmation 15270 has non-rebounding hammers (rebounding hammers were patented 1867 and started to appear on Reillys shortly thereafter)...so I reckon anything after this serial number is 1868 or later.

From 1868-1886 I estimated he was making 640 numbered guns per year on average. - for argument's sake since the demand obviously built from 440 produced in the previous period..say add 500 per year for this period of the Reilly history.

-- 17644 (assuming this is a Reilly number and it may not be) is the first Reilly Martini with a serial number which has to be after it was trialed and adopted for the Army in 1871...probably a bit later. So anything pre 17644 has to be pre-Martini Henry.

As a test...If you add it up...Start with 15270 and hypothesize that it was made and numbered in Jan 1868...and add 500 for each year afterwards...actually you'll arrive at 17414 having been hypothetically serial numbered in 1872 - add to the total manufactured and you'll pull the dates back. But whatever, your SN is so close to the marker date of Jan 1868, that you can be sure it was manufactured within those two months.

1st Rue Scribe gun................................................................................................ 1st Reilly Martini
Jan 1868...............Jan 1869..............Jan 1870...............Jan 1871...............Jan 1872.......1872
15250...........v.......15750.................16250...................16750...................17250..........17644 - at 500/year. If the Martini is 1871, it'll be 600/yr
................15625
.............Sep.Oct 1868
Posted by: Terry Buffum

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/01/16 01:13 PM

You asked "And looking at the matched set of pistols you sold, SN 176...I can't help but think these were actually a couple of the very earliest JC Reilly's. Pistol SN's for Reilly are problematic but...these look appropriate. Did both pistols have the same SN?"

Yes, both pistols were marked 176; that seems odd to me, but perhaps that was customary with pairs of "duelers".
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/01/16 07:22 PM

==================================================================================================
Initial attempt at identify Markers and # of guns produced per year



I'm going to go out on a limb and make some more guesses. The lease dates of 12 Middle Row and 316 High Holborn are now known and based on that, I've speculated that any Reilly with "Holborn Bars" is pre-1835. Re Oxford Street, In view of those two guns with labels saying "removed from Holborn" (8463 and 8568) I believe it is entirely possibly that indeed EM Riley began his serial number chronology at around number 8,400 when they moved in 1847 to Oxford Street. So taking this as a given (and it may not be) here is the approximate number of serial numbered guns he made per year, based on 7 serial numbers that I feel comfortable can be firmly dated: From the below...it looks like Reilly was producing consistently over 600 serial numbered guns a year from at the latest 1860 (possibly much earlier given his publicity...perhaps from 1855 on) to 1898. This may have been his maximum capacity since it was pretty constant for 40 years.

SN -------- Date

162 -- 1814 - Year the Reilly opened his Jewelry store on 12 Middle Row, Holborn above the Bars - lease lasted till 1835) (this is known as Holborn Bars - see the woodcut.
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - Approximately 1,000 guns made over say 15 years from about 1820-1835 = about 75 numbered guns per year (speculation since there are so few data points)- this would match Joseph Manton's output of about 110 guns a year at the time) (he probably started small, then as he figured it out increased production and got progressively more into the gun trade and out of jewelry...logically you can expect him to have started with engraving some pieces of gentlemen friends and proceeding from there). There are four pistols amongst the earliest of Reilly's I've found; it's tempting to speculate that he started out making pistols....but perhaps pistols survive better that Rifles - they're not out in the rain shooting ducks and can more easily be stored away, even when antiquated.
...| ....... |
1024 - 1835 - Serial number with the first mention of 316 High Holborn; JC Reilly moved there in August 1835 per property and voting records and per an advertisement placed in a London Newspaper.)
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - (Approximately 2,200 guns made over 12 years - speculation since there are so few data points = about 190 numbered guns per year)
...| ....... |
3329 -- 1847 - Last SN with 316 HighHolborn. Reilly's vacated 316 and moved to 502 New Oxford Street in March 1847 per London property and voting records and an advertisement in a London Newspaper.

There apparently is about a 5000 serial number gap between the end of High Holborn and beginning of numbers from New Oxford Street.

8400 -- 1847 - Year the Reilly's moved to Oxford Street (The gun serial number is hypothetical - first Reilly I have found with the Oxford address is per above 8463))
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - (Approximately 3,600 guns made over 12 years = about 300 numbered guns per year)
...| ....... |
12079 - 1859 - Serial number with the first mention of 315 Oxford Street address opened in 1859 per an advertisement just found.
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - (Approximately 1,300 guns made over 3 years = about 440 numbered guns per year)
...| ....... |
13333 - 1862 - Serial number of a Green Patent gun almost certainly made in 1862
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - (Approximately 2,000 guns made over 5 years = about 440 numbered guns per year)
...| ....... |
15254 - 1868 - 1st serial number I can find with the Paris address which opened in late 1867 or early 1868
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - (Approximately 11,500 guns made over 18 years = about 640 numbered guns made per year.)
,,,| ....... |
26584 - 1886 - Closure of Paris address - Last known SN with the Paris address.
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - (Approximately 8,000 guns made over 12 years = about 650 numbered guns made per year.)
...| ....... |
34723 - 1898 - Closure of 16 Oxford Street. Last known SN with 16 Oxford Street on the Rib.
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - (Approximately 650 guns made over 5 years = about 130 numbered guns per year)
...| ....... |
35413 - 1903 - Closure of 277 Oxford street; first gun with 295 Oxford street on Rib.

So if you have a Reilly with SN., look at the above theoretical matrix...pick the nearest date...subtract or add number of guns per year estimated to be manufactured by Reilly during that period and you'll get a somewhat approximation of the date.

Note: Reilly did a lot more business than just numbered guns. Per above they sold guns and pistols made by others...they engraved...they were prestige...they sold used guns... well..they were businessmen.

J.C. Reilly apparently produced at least 3200 serial numbered guns from 1816 to 1847...about 110 a year on average, possibly including some of his pistols. This is only a guess since there are so few datapoints. It could be that the 1820's were only a beginning..maybe he built 50 a year? But he built his trade and by the time he was installed at High Holborn in 1835...in a very substantial building with a well-to-do clientele as detailed by Wyman, he was making considerably more per year. It's even possible that the last SN I have for a long gun 3329 is 1835 or thereabouts and he actually produced another 5,000 guns and put numbers on them in the next 12 years (300-400 per year)... certainly possible...but with no evidence (surviving guns with SN's and name/address) to support this.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/05/16 12:39 AM

I've gone about as far as I can with mining the internet on EM and JC Reilly. I have a pretty good idea of what SN's were produced when from about 1848 through 1905.

I've also got about 30 guns in my database, beautiful work, which were posted by owners or auctioneers but with no serial numbers or other information, sometimes posted with photos. Would appreciate some additional information from the owners of these guns...as time permits, I'll post a database with SN "xxxxx" and links..

But the key question for me now is the production of numbered guns by JC Reilly at both Chancery Lane (Holborn Bars)(1820-35) and especially High Holborn (1835-47). There are 5000 missing serial numbers. I have two confirmed serial numbers from the period 1174 and 3329,. But I don't know if 3329 were made in 1835 or 1846.. So if anyone has a lead on more JC Reilly guns from the 1830's-40's - museums, collections, India - please let me know.

As it is...if you have a Reilly from pre 1835 (Holborn Bars) or one from 1835-47 (316 Holborn) or from the early days at Oxford street post 1847 (think SN 8400-9500)..Please post it. It might solve a mystery.
Posted by: 300846

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/05/16 04:06 AM

Some amount of work and a great lot of information !.
I notice a couple of typos in your 'chronology' part as in 1872 Anson's Patent should read 3791 and 1877 A & D hammerless patent should read 1875.
Re missing serial numbers - it was quite common for gunmakers to use a 'block' of numbers and miss out quite a few thousand over a period. For example record books might start at 1000 instead of 1. Whether this was to appear to have greater production than the actual or to ddifferentiate between types or something is hard to know.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/05/16 04:04 PM

Thanks...fixed. Will shortly post a list of Reilly's which were put on the net with no SN's...beautiful pictures if one is browsing.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/05/16 04:06 PM

Here are some Reilly's which have been posted on the internet, by auction houses or individuals, with no serial numbers and often no address on the ribs Some of them are very beautiful guns and the links worth looking at if you have a moment on a rainy day. It's frustrating not to have some of the fundamental information on these guns (for a historian).

xxxxx - (1830-40’s?)
Address: J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBORN STREET, LONDON
Description: 0 bore, percussion, muzzle loading shotgun; no visible serial number, circa 1845, with twist-iron 36in. re-browned barrels, the top-rib signed 'J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON', bead fore-sight, scroll engraved rib-end at breech, scroll engraved 'plugs', engraved top-tang, borderline and scroll engraved bar-action locks signed 'REILLY', scroll engraved dolphin-headed hammers,
Comment: No photos.
https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/J-C-REILLY-LONDON/22392046/LotDetail.asp?lid=22392046

xxxxx - 1830’s?) (Pistol)
Address: Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London.
Description: This .50 caliber pistol with a 10-inch octagonal barrel measures 15-inches in overall length. Wood ramrod with flared brass cap, brass section at rear unscrews exposing the worm. London proof marks. Platinum blowout plug on nipple drum. One barrel key with oval silver escutcheons. The brown Damascus finish slightly worn. Nicely grained walnut half-stock with bag grip and black horn forend cap; oval silver thumbpiece.
Comment: Pistol looks similar to 172, Reilly dueling pistols.
http://www.aaawt.com/html/firearms/f296.html

xxxx (1840’s?)
Address: JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON
Description: A fine classical English iron mounted half stocked double barreled hunting gun c. 1840 by Joseph Charles Reilly with butt cap, trigger guard, and locks finely engraved with English scroll, c. 71 cm. long barrels in calibre c. 16,5 cm. marked on the strap JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON.
Comment: Beautiful engraving with a classic Reilly stock..the markers are there very early. He made this gun. I want it.
https://www.barnebys.com/auctions/lot/32...charles-reilly/

xxxxx - (1853?); (very similar to 11651) (Reilly Enfield?)
Address: Reilly, Oxford Street, London.
Description. .577? Muzzle loading, percussion, rifle, with Enfield like sights. No details (Polish site)…
Comments: This might be a sporting Enfield. Patch box in butt. Beautiful work!! Very similar to 11651)
http://www.dobrybazar.sk/detail/predam-perkusnu-gulovnicu-reilly-new-oxford-street

xxxxx - (1860?) (very like 14115 & 15129)
Address: E.M REILLY & Co, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: 12 Bore pinfire hammergun; 32” barrels; non-rebounding locks. Circa 1860; underlever action.
Comments: Not sure when under levers began to be used…will look up the patent though this cold have been adde later.
http://www.gunseekers.co.uk/South-East-K...RGUN---4305.htm

xxxxx- (1863?)
Address: E.M REILLY (address not stated)
Description: English 1863 E.M.Reilly 12ga double barrel percussion shotgun in excellent working order. The actions are crisp and tight, the English walnut stock is in excellent shape and the gun is very nice overall. Good quality replacement ramrod, otherwise everything original. Also included is a letter from the Tower of London stating it's authenticity. It belonged to one family that migrated in the 1880s via sailing ship to America, then by wagon to Montana.
Comments: FANTASTIC story - makes you want to buy the gun. (there's that old adage - buy the gun, not the story) (Then again...from the looks it might be true).
http://www.armslist.com/posts/302292/ark...loading-shotgun

xxxxx - (post 1860)
Address: E.M.REILLY &Co. 502 & 315 OXFORD STREET LONDON
Description: Reilly browned 11 ga, .577 percussion S/S Cape Gun. 25" Damascus barrels. Bar action locks. Chequered wrist & fore-end with professionally repaired crack to wrist. Extensive engraving to locks, tang, triggerguard. Gun has a new set of replacement hammers which are still to be fitted.
Comment:
http://www.classicarms.co.za/default.php?ipkCat=41&sid=41

xxxxx (very similar to 13590)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co. , London
Descriptions: Cal. 4 bore. (1.015 bore diameter, 1.120 groove diameter. Two groove). 26" Tapered octagon twist bbl is mounted with one standing leaf rear, and "certifiable antique elephant ivory" blade front sight. Top flat is engraved "E. M. Reilly & Co. London". Bottom flat is stamped with Birmingham black powder proof. Case hardened patent breech is engraved with large open scroll. Case hardened breech iron with integral fence is engraved with large shaded scroll. Large bar action lockplate is mounted with tall, round bodied, slightly serpentine hammer. Hammer and lockplate are engraved with more large open scroll. "E. M. Reilly & Co" is on front portion of plate. Trigger plate is mounted with germanic type double set triggers, and trigger must be set before lock can be cocked. Trigger guard with squared bow has shell finial, and is also scroll engraved. probably South African restocking
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/E-M-...-e_m-15.3-julia

xxxxx - (?)
Address: E. M. REILLY (address not mentioned/photographed)
Description: pin fire 12ga, by E. M. REILLY, Fastlock push and drop action, nicely browned Damascus barrels, good grade wood, genuine antique, no licence required
Comment:
http://www.gunstar.co.uk/e-m-reilly-co-side-by-side-pin-fire-12-bore-gauge-shotgun/Shotguns/803128

xxxxx - (1870?) (See 16607) (Reilly Snider)
Address: E.M. REILLY & Co, 502 NEW OXFORD St., LONON
Description: high quality breech-loading rifle was built by the London company, E.M.Reilly in about 1875, for shooting big game. The gun fires a massive .750 cartridge, enough
Comment: Sniders adopted in 1865 - Brit army officer bought their own for hunting to use issue ammo. this one has a lot bigger cartridge though. First Snider with a SN is 16607
http://www.brlsi.org/museum-collections/online-museum/weaponry/17486

xxxxx - (1870?) (See 16607) (Reilly-Snider)
Address: E.M. REILLY & Co, 502 NEW OXFORD St., LONON
Description: .577 Snider high quality breech-loading rifle was built by the London company, E.M.Reilly in about 1875, for shooting big game. The gun fires a massive .750 cartridge, enough
Comment: Sniders adopted in 1865. “The .577 Snider was the backbone of the Canadian Militia for decades.”
http://levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46996

xxxxx - (1882-86)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxfort Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris
Descriptions: I just added this nice EM Reilly to my gun safe the other day. A gent in Texas had it for sale. 28-inch barrels, hammers are non rebounding, perfect bores, nicely engraved on the action, rib, and sight leaves, Jones under lever and heel and toe plates. Should be fun to shoot and not too difficult to come up with an accurate loa
Comment: Frustrating; beautifully cased gun but no SN, no description in the post. the label can’t be made out from the photo. But this heavy bore rifle has the 277 address (1882 on) and the Paris address (before 1886). It looks remarkably like 23746 above.
http://www.calpappas.com/2014/05/double-rifles.html

xxxxx - (1875?)
Name: E.M. REILLY, (on case 502 OXFORD STREET, LONDON)
Description: E.M. Reilly 16 Bore muzzleloading rifle built for an Indian Maharajah.
Comment: Highly ornate case with brass inlay done in India.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=4421.0

xxxxx - (1875-1890?) (Reilly Martini) (It’s possible Reilly quit putting Reilly SN’s on Martini’s shortly after making 17414)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co, New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris
Description: Martini action serial 10889. Danish gun. .450 cal bore (classic Martini-Henry), Black powder, Ely 3 1/4 Express.
Comment:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=270014&start=20

xxxxx - (1870’s?)
Name: E.M. Reilly & co, 502 New Oxford Street, London (case) (branch office at 315 Oxford Str, and Rue Scribe Paris. (features gold and silver medals won at the 1867 Paris fair)
Description: No description but from excellent photos looks to be a classic big bore double pin-fire.
Comment:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1737606353125407.1073741883.1690234751195901&type=3

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1328698-E-M-Reilly-amp-Co-Rifle

xxxxx - (1880’s?)
Name: Not mentioned.
Description: E.M.Reilly bar-in wood 12 bore with Whitworth steel barrels circa 1885 with 2 3/4" chambers,30" mod. and full and nitro proofed. It has a large capital "B" in 24 carat gold where the oval
Comment: This is Terry Lubinski’s gun…He could add more info including SN, and address on rib, etc.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191402&page=all

xxxxx - (1870’s-80’s?)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co New Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris
Description: Double barrel, percussion hammer gun. semi-pistol grip with case.
Comment: French web site.
http://fraysse.net/listings/carabine-exp...-coups-calibre/

xxxxx - (1880’s?)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxfort Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris
Description: Looks like a big-bore double barrel rifle: “I just added this nice EM Reilly to my gun safe the other day. A gent in Texas had it for sale. 28-inch barrels, hammers are non rebounding, perfect bores, nicely engraved on the action, rib, and sight leaves, Jones under lever and heel and toe plates. Should be fun to shoot and not too difficult to come up with an accurate load.”
Comment:
http://www.calpappas.com/2014/05/double-rifles.html

xxxxx - (1880’s-90's?)
Name: E.M. Reilly
Description: E.M. Reilly 12 bore double gun w damascus barrels. Pics only with case. Text says the proof marks show it is "post 1891 but pre WWI" per the text.
Comment: Can’t read the case label but it looks like the classic 502, 315, Rue Scribe type of label. It so, it is likely a reprint because Rue Scribe closed in 1886.
http://www.calpappas.com/2014/05/double-rifles.html

xxxxx - (1880’s?)
Name: E.M.Reilly & Co with London & Paris
Descriptions: Cased Cape Gun; 12 bore 30" 174 Side by side damascus barrel + rifled in .577 express cal.
Comment: Nr. 169 in the New Zealand auction, Beautiful gun but frustrating lack of information. I’ve included it because of the below gun also with no SN but both the 16 Oxford Street (post 1882) and Rue Scribe (Pre 1886) dates. I have a feeling both guns belonged to the same owner and probably were purchased together.
http://gunauction.co.nz/catalogues/38.pdf

xxxxx - (1880’s?)
Name: E.M.Reilly & Co. 16 New Oxford Street London & Paris
Descriptions: New Zealand Double barrel muzzle loading?(in a break down rifle??), percussion, hammer gun; Damascus steel 27 1/2” 8 bore SxS rifles.
Comment: The description give me some problems. It sure looks like a pin-fire to me. But those address are significant…no photos. Item 197.
http://gunauction.co.nz/catalogues/39.pdf

xxxxx - (early 1880?’s)
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO OXFORD St.T LONDON (502 New Oxford Street, London on case label)
Description: Heavy, rifled, blued, round, 13 mm cal. barrel, checkered at the rib, signed "E.M. REILLY & CO OXFORD St.T LONDON", with adjustable rear-sight and foresight; backward spring lock, finely engraved with floral motifs, receiver and mounts en suite; a lever under the receiver; wooden stock checkered at the neck and palm rest, wooden fore-end. In a wooden case covered with linen and lined with blue cloth, some tools.
Comnent: Label on case may have the Paris address - not clear
http://www.czernys.auction.fr/_en/lot/a-cased-breech-loading-rifle-by-e-m-reilly-co-3111416

xxxxx - (1885?)
Name: EM REILLY, LONDON (NFI)
Description: BLNE, 2 1/2", 30" beautiful nitro proved Damascus choked Cyl/Full. 15" lightly figured wood to ebony butt plate. Action has gone grey with beaded lip fences and an elegant long top lever. 6 1/2lbs cased.
Comnent: Steel barrels, “modern” side plates.
http://www.hillrodandgun.com/archivepicture.php?id=12587

xxxxx - (mid 1880’s?)
Name: E. M. Reilly & Co. London marked, manufactured for Oaks & Co. Madres (India).
Description: Classic full side lock double-barrel 12ga shotgun with Damascus pattern barrels by E. M. Reilly & Co. London marked, manufactured for Oaks & Co. Madres (India). The gun shows 30-1/8” barrels, 46-1/2” overall with stock measuring approx. 14-7/8 from the front trigger to the end of the horn rubber buttplate. The gun shows standard extractors. The water table shows a series of English proofs and reproofs, 2-1/2” chamber, 3 grams black powder, 1-1/8 oz of shot. Proofed to 3 tons. Left barrel marked 740, right barrel marked 719. The gun shows a quality bank note scroll engraved frame with nicely rebrowned barrels showing 90% thinning, correct color old tobacco brown restored finish. The action has been lightly polished a satin grey, the top of the frame is marked “Ellis & Scots Patent” by the release lever.
Comnent: With all the patent numbers, should be able to date this gun..no serial number though.
http://www.icollector.com/Classic-full-s...lly-Co_i8787083

xxxxx - (1880)?
Name: E.M REILLY (no address mentioned) (best gun)
Description: Made for Maharana Sri Natwarsinji. 8 bore double rifle. 28” barrels. 3 1/4 chamber. sights for 50, 100, 150, 200 yards.
Comnent: Spanish site - have to sign on to see the photos. Fue fabricado especialmente para un principe hindú: H.H.Maharana Shree Warhatsincji Loonanara
http://www.cazayarmas.org/t7127-e-m-reilly-a-la-altura-de-los-mejores

xxxxx - (1880’s?) Best hammer gun
Name: E.M REILLY (address not mentioned)
Description: 12 gauge, classic hammer pigeon gun, beautifully engraved. 31” nitro proofed steel barrels with Briley Chokes and 3” chambers; Double triggers; extractor; splinter forearm pistol grip,
Comnent: All that info…no SN or address off the rib. (scroll down alphabetically)
http://www.stevebarnettfineguns.com/asp-bin/archivedetail.asp?ID=6191
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/09/16 09:35 PM

I've added about 30 Reilly SN's above on all three pages (SN 164-25000), (25000-35654) and (xxxxx). And have had to move more SN's to the second page. Many of them were from Terry Buffum's collection now up for sale. There were no surprises as to serial numbers and their addresses/projected dates of manufacture. This means that the chronology laid out above is probably pretty accurate. So unless there's something from the pre-Oxford street time frame or some pre-SN 9000 guns, I won't add more. The objective was to get a handle on dates - that I believe has been done.

I've looked at every Reilly I can find for a couple of months now. And looking at Terry's collection...I'll simply say that there are going to be some very happy shooters when the bidding's done.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/09/16 09:54 PM

Originally Posted By: lagopus
Looks like you have spent some time on research; excellent work. Ever thought of putting it all in to book form? Reilly guns were sometimes forged as I acquired one once. I knew what was and was given it. Totally un-restorable and nothing like the work turned out by Reilly himself although it might have fooled a blind man. I de-activated it as a wall-piece for someone. May have a photo somewhere on file.

Still slightly in shock about the pump action at a game shoot. Welcome to the board. Lagopus.....


Lagopus. I've spent about 12 years on the sub-continent, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan.. If it's a forgery and it rusts, I'd bet it was made by Pashtuns in their arms factories north of the Kohat Pass (traditionally an Adam Khel, Afridi area but now simply business). Except that their forgeries are so good that ATF can't tell their copies of a Snider-Enfield or a Martini-Henry from a real one.

The Civil War reenactor crowd discovered Pashtun copies of the 1853 Enfield. In 2004 you could buy one in Kabul for $100. But the Pashtuns are above all businessmen when they aren't killing someone in a blood-feud, and they rapidly figured out the market. Sniders and Martinis stayed pretty much the same price..but by 2012 Classic percussion gun 1853 Enfields would cost you near $500 in Kabul. You'll find them over here with Confederate Army stamps...but with sub-continent serial numbers. I've had to disabuse several dealers in Confederate memorabilia about the provenance of their gun.



Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/12/16 10:54 PM

==================================================================================================
1814 -1835 - Holborn Bars and High Holborn


My last post unless I get a stash of early Reilly serial numbers. Here are changes I've made which can help with dating:

London records prove Reilly opened 12 Middle Row in 1814 and was there till 1835. This is also known as "Holborn above the Bars.". Thus I believe any Reilly with "Holborn Bars" is pre-1835. (316 High Holborn is "above the bars" so I could be mistaken...yet, makers stamp their guns with something identifiable. So until there is more info available, I'll stick to the analysis and with the almost unmistakable evidence - the woodcut of Chancery Lane which has "Holborn Bars" on the top of the building.

London tenancy and voting registration records prove JC Reilly opened the 316 High Holborn address in August 1835 and closed it in March 1847. Thus any gun with the 316 or "High Holborn" address is within this 12 year period.

Changes have been made in the various chronologies above. There are not many data points from this era...but it's a bit more clarity.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 04/03/16 12:36 AM

Originally Posted By: trw999
Well done on the research Argo44. I too am a veteran, British Army.

I often toddle off to the British Library to look up old shooting journals such The Field, Arms & Explosives, The Sporting Goods Review. Let me know if you'd like me to look up any particular issue.

Tim


==================================================================================================
1814-1833 - Reilly as a Jeweler, Silverplate


Tim....here is something I'm still working on. JC Reilly's background as a "jeweler." I think he was a silver plate worker...explains his engraving skills..and probably why the lawyers and country gentlemen brought guns to him...i.e. to be engraved. Here is a post I modified:

1819 - He entered a maker’s mark at Goldsmiths Hall in 1819 as a plateworker from 12 Middle Row, Holborn. (Note: I've been unable to verify this; there is a John C. Reilly from 1818-20 with a silver maker's mark; Plate would seem to indicate he worked in silver. Every goldsmith's mark is registered but I have difficulty navigating the site. Somebody in London might research this.)

If you're ever in London, would be interested in that mark..if it exists. And if it exists, any examples of "silver" he engraved which might be extant. It would be interesting to compare his "jeweler" engravings to his gun engravings.
Posted by: George L.

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 04/04/16 12:15 AM

Thanks Argo44. This plethora of information has been a great help in establishing the provenance for my 4 bore E.M. Reilly.

Best Regards, George
Posted by: Irrational

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/05/16 03:07 PM

A truly fascinating thread - thank you for bringing it to my attention, Argo.

Mine is a damascus barrelled, 30", 12g, side lever hammer gun, s/n 20467, bearing the barrel inscription "EM Reilly & Co, Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris"

[img]http://thumbsnap.com/2uJCbX4V[/img]

From its condition, I suspect the gun may have spent some time resting in a gun room for many years before resurfacing.

Recently reproofed (2 3/4", nitro) so very much one to enjoy (albeit I limit load weight and avoid "punchy" cartridges).

A near identical gun is currently available, restocked, from Watson Bros in London. I think my wife may attempt to murder me in the event that I try to compose a pair...
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/06/16 10:29 AM

==================================================================================================
20467 (Autumn 1876)



Irrational, I'd estimate 20467 as having been made in Autumn 1876, possibly September/October

Analysis:

— 15270 is the first Paris address on a rib I've found; he opened Rue Scribe in late Jan/early Feb 1868.

— 26584 is the last gun I've found with a Paris address; he closed Rue Scribe about August 1886.

Between Feb 68 and Aug 86 (222 months) he numbered about 11,200 guns; that would be about 50+ numbered guns a month at a steady rate (and it obviously fluctuated).(on reflection this production rate stayed pretty steady from 1868 to 1898 - perhaps this was the maximum he could produce?)..say 620 a year. So just assuming this is correct, your gun would be about the 5,200th numbered gun produced after he opened Rue Scribe… 104 months after Feb 1868 = 8 years 8 months. So I’d estimate it to be have been made in Fall 1876.

As an accuracy check…the next marker is 26584, the last SN I've found produced at Rue Scribe in Aug 1886, about 6,000 serial numbers after yours. At 50 a month that would be 120 months of production = 10 years. 10 years before August 1886 = Autumn 1876.

To check this further, here are patents Reilly regularly used on his guns. It should not have the Mills 3rd bite patent but may have the 1875 patents. (note: Reilly would build whatever was ordered. I've found a muzzle loader built in the mid-1880's).

1872 - Patent: Anson's fore-end fastener patent no. 3791

1874 - Patent: Needham patented a hammerless, barrel-cocking gun which was also the first ejector in 1874.

1875 - Patent: W.M. Scott's patent 3223

1875 - Patent: Anson & Deely patent; the first hammerless gun with top lever.

1878 - Patent: Mills 3rd bite patent no 4980

I personally think Reilly's are currently a very good bargain in English 19th century shotguns...but this again is just a layman's observation. And, you'll get dozens of experts here responding to your last sentence saying in effect, "You can never have too many SxS's."

Here is Irrational's Reilly:

Posted by: Irrational

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/06/16 05:41 PM

Thank you, sir, that's very much appreciated - I'd been guessing circa 1875 so we appear to be in quite close agreement (albeit your approach is rather more reasoned).

I wholeheartedly agree that you can never have too many SxS's: I have no plans to buy an o/u, if for no other reason that space in the current cabinet is fully spoken for, but one day a 19th C example may creep in to the inevitable 2nd cabinet...
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/12/16 10:51 PM

==================================================================================================
27377 (1885), 27854 (early 1886)

EDIT: Dates changed due to change in 1st SN for rue Scribe and closure of rue Scribe in August 1885 vice 1886

I was asked by a member on the board for my opinion on the age of two EM Reilly's. I've received no pictures or heard nothing more but here is my response which might help others to date their Reilly SxS's.

27377 - Nov 1887
27854 - Aug 1888

Here's the reasoning. 26584 is the last SN I can find with both the Rue Sribe Paris address concurrent with one of the Oxford street addresses. He closed Rue Scribe in August 1886 I believe. I estimate that he was numbering about 600-640 guns a year at this point, say 50+ a month.

26584.................27200.....................27840
08/1886..............08/1887..v..............08/1888.v
.....................................27377..................27854
.....................................11/87...................08/88

If he closed Rue Scribe earlier in the year it'll pull those SN's back a few months. Both are so close to the marker number 26584 that you can be pretty sure both estimates are close.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/11/17 06:01 PM

==================================================================================================
1837-98 - Reilly and and airguns - 1st post (Photos hi-jacked by Photobucket - NEVER FORGET)


To try to define the chronology, history and date Reilly serial number more precisely, I’m going to enter some Reilly air gun canes. They seemed to have survived more intact - probably because they weren’t hauled into the woods and the cases were kept in substantial houses.

Reilly’s were specialists in air-guns and in “1850” wrote a treatise on air guns. (I think it to be written at least a year earlier in 1849 or even 1848). (Text below)

http://www.network54.com/Forum/681456/message/1493983648



He identified himself as “Reilly, Junr” (presumably Reilly, junior)….
The address of the firm was No. 502, New Oxford Street, “removed from 316 Holborn,” London. The title page of this Treatise is important because it still has “removed from 316 Holborn” on the title page. They moved to Oxford St. in March 1847. The Reilly’s quit using the Holborn name about a year after the move to Oxford Street.

Here are some Reilly air guns arranged as best I can per the label’s by chronological order. Only one has a Serial Number but that one may be important.

1). Xxxxx
Name: J.C. REILLY, 316 HOLBORN, LONDON
Description: .41 CAL; RIFLED BBL, BORE GOOD, BLACK PAINTED FINISH, HORN CANE HANDLE, COMES WITH ORIGINAL PUMP, FIXED SIGHTS, ROUND BALL LOADS INTO A ROTATING BREACH, BUTTON TRIGGER, COCKING KEY INCLUDED, MAKER'S MAHOGANY TAKE DOWN CASE, BRASS MUZZLE PROTECTOR

Comment: Reilly was at316 High Holborn from Aug 1835 to March 1847 (see history - 4th post in this line). This is the first extant 316 High Holborn label I've seen.
https://ellwoodepps.com/joesph-charles-reilly-air-gun-cane.html
Comment:






2). Xxxxx
Name: J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBURN, LONDON
Description: This cane rifle consists of two parts painted black enamel which measures just under 38 inches including the screw on horn handle. The center joint ring is marked "REILLY 316 HOLBORN LONDON IMPROVED". The pump is screwed onto the upper portion to fill the chamber with air. The pump consists of an iron tube with brass ends and a screw on iron handle for the pump. The tube is marked "J.C. REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON". The lower portion of the cane houses the breech and firing mechanism. After the chamber is "pumped up", the two pieces are screwed together and the muzzle end has a brass tip which screws off and the attached wooden barrel plug comes out. The breech is opened by a sliding lever and is loaded with a round bullet through a round hole on top of the shaft. A key is then used to cock it and a small post "trigger" pops out of the side. The trigger is simply pushed to fire the rifle. The barrel is rifled and gauges at 38 caliber. It is equipped with a small blade front and notched rear sights.

Comment: Reilly was at High Holburn from 1835 to March 1847.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/55/64/reilly-co-edward-m-air#detail




3). 7801 ??
Name: REILLY, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: REILLY LONDON A RARE CASED 28-BORE PERCUSSION COMBINATION WALKING-STICK GUN serial no. 7801. circa 1845 comprising of a 28 3/4in. re-browned octagonal damascus rifle barrel signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON` (renewed) small dove-tailed crescent fore-sight blued standing notch rear-sight with one folding leaf a 29 3/4in. re-browned damascus round shot barrel with octagonal breech section (unsigned) and an unsigned octagonal 32-bore 3in. re-browned damascus pistol barrel (probably a later addition) matching period London proofs together with a percussion under-hammer squared boxlock action with guarded trigger the top-tang signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON`

Comment:
--this is an early Reilly after they moved to 502 New Oxford Street in late March 1847. It has he picture of 502 indicating it is post 1848-9. For the first 12 months or so after the move the wrote "removed from Holborn" on the labels.
--The SN is interesting because if his air-gun canes were numbered in the same series as his long guns, this is the earliest number after the move. I’ve speculated that EM and JC just jumped numbers up from about 4.500 to 8,400 after the move. However, this cane if the SN is in the long-gun series will change that.
-- (the auction house is wrong; the cane can’t be 1845 and have the New Oxford Street address - see the chronology)
-- Note: I’ve found a JC REILLY shotgun with the 502 New Oxford Street address with a serial number 7280. This is outside of the EM Reilly numbering system - the earliest I found was 8463, which had the label "502 New Oxford" plus "removed from Holborn." (posted below) This makes me wonder whether Joseph Charles and E.M split their serial numbering at this time. i.e. J.C. may have continued with his own numbering system and let EM begin anew with SN’s after 8,400). This will be investigated further. (or it could be that the "7" is actually a "9")
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...f6-a4340134dc99





Here are two S&W revolvers sent to India for a Marahajah with same label: - date of the S&W models may help date the label.



(for historians to compare labels this from Serial numbered guns)"
8463 - (1848’s?); !!!!!!!!!! Earliest SN after move to 502 Oxford !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Address: Reilly, New Oxford Street, London (case label has “removed from Holborn);
Description: .390, percussion, double express rifle. Enfield type rifling, muzzle loading; (breaks down) with patch box in butt;
Comment: This is the first confirmed use of the Oxford Street address on a Reilly gun..and the label "removed from Holborn" would seem to indicate an early provenance after the change to Oxford street.
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-1361-e-m...nal-case-40673/

and the label:




4). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET,
Description: 1

Comment: REILLY on the label with a picture of 502 New Oxford Street. I believe this label was the company label from about 1849 to 1859 when E.M. added his initials to the firm.
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...4f-a41800b08eda




Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/11/17 06:11 PM

5). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: 1

Comment: REILLY on the label; 502 picture; There are two medals on this label; no close-up to tell what they were. Reilly's exhibited at the 1855 Paris exhibition and their display “attracted considerable notice and valuable patronage.” All the goods were sold and many orders booked. Wonder if these medals were from that fair? If so, why weren't they featured in follow-on ads? These could be some sort of stamps from a reseller?

http://www.vintageairguns.co.uk/air-canes/?occur=1&album=47&photo=1748




6). Xxxxx
Name: E.M.Reilly &Co., New Oxford St.,London
Description: This is a totally complete 1850's Cane Air Gun including it's original pump and cocking key. The pump and the cane are signed "E.M.Reilly &Co., New Oxford St.,London. The cane looks to be about .36 cal. and retains it's original brass rod and cap.  It also has a front and rear sight.  The head of the cane has some wonderful scrimshaw work consisting of 3 panels . One Admiral Nelson in his full naval officers garb. The second one is a family coat of arms,which I'm told is the Prince of Wales. The third is  the battleship Victory.The head is made out of Alabaster and there's a minor chip on the top . E.M Reilly was famous for his caneguns and wrote"Treatise on Air Guns" in 1850.  The  gun works just fine . It holds it's charge when pumped up and cocks and fires . A really great and complete nautical Cane Air Gun. This outfit would fit equally well in a firearms, nautical or scrimshaw collection. Rarely seen for sale.

Comment: EM began to be used on gun ribs about 1859.
https://www.johnjhayeshistoricalcollectibles.com/proddetail.php?prod=e4







7). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY, LONDON
Description: A 100-BORE PNEUMATIC AIR CANE 
SIGNED E.M. REILLY, LONDON, THIRD QUARTER OF THE 19TH CENTURY 
With sighted rifled brass barrel with rotating loading-drum, button-trigger and aperture for the cocking-key (key and muzzle-cap missing), signed on the case-hardened inner face at the join between the barrel and reservoir, dark horn handle, and retaining much original wood-effect painted finish throughout; together with AN 80-BORE BUTT-RESERVOIR AIR PISTOL, with turn-off two-stage barrel, scroll engraved brass action with iron 'flintlock' mechanism, and brass reservoir. The first 37¾in. (96.9cm.) long (2)
Comment:
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/a-100-bore-pneumatic-air-cane-signed-em-5509870-details.aspx




8). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: A great cased air gun cane curio by E.M.Reilly of London. It comes with its own original wood case with an address label for "E. M. Reilly & Co" and there is a list of contents prepared by an earlier owner/seller. The list reads: "Reilly walking stick air rifle, about .40 brass bbl., multi-groove rifling, bore about perfect. Very powerful, complete with mold, pump, cocking key, extra valve, etc. When fully pumped up, these will shoot 20-30 shots full power, Breech loading. Weight 3 1/2 Pounds. Thumb trigger. Probably made about 1850." (A written description of air guns by Dike on page 357 of Cane Curiosa mentions E. M. Reilly of London, as a noted air gun maker and inventor. Additionally 35/6 shows a very similar cased piece by another maker.)

Comment: Label shows use of "EM" (post 1859?) but no 315 New Oxford St subsidiary (therefore before 1860).
https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/11244082_a-cased-air-gun-cane-curio-by-emreilly-of-london



Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/11/17 06:58 PM

9). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: Cased .36-caliber English Cane Gun . . . circa 1849  by E.M. Reilly & Company. Until the 1800s, specialist carvers, metal workers, and artisans produced canes and walking sticks by hand. However, the popularity of fashion and gadget canes fueled a market for their mass manufacture and subsequently helped lead to their demise. Canes became less artistic and reflective of current fashions.

Comment: Use of "EM"(post 1858) but no 315 New Oxford subsidiary on the label (pre 1859).
http://www.greendragonsociety.com/Weaponry/Weaponry_Main_page.asp




10). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET, LONDON (502, NEW OXFORD STEET on case label)
Description: This is a rare, cased, Air Cane. Made of brass & steel it unscrews into 2 sections and when assembled measures 36" overall. The barrel section has a clean bore with crisp rifling (1cm at the muzzle approx. AA shot). The barrel section features a tiny blade foresight and 'V' notch steel rear sight.
The weapon fires moulded lead balls inserted in the barrel section at the loading port which has a small bolt feature. It is armed by means of its steel and brass air pump and fired by means of a steel winged trigger which is inserted into the underside of the rifle and twists to fire. The pump and trigger are present. The body of the pump is nicely marked by the manufacturer 'E.M. Reilly & Co, Oxford Street, London' (illustrated).

Comment: Note Paris Exhibition Medals 1867 but no Rue Scribe, Paris address…indicating it could have made between August 1867 and February 1868
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...1a-a5f00113573f






11). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description:

Comment: Note Paris Exhibition Medals 1867 but no Rue Scribe, Paris address…Actually though the Paris address has been defaced. 1868-1871 thereabouts.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/681456/thread/1362405040/4/A





Posted by: Geo. Newbern

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/11/17 07:48 PM

Mr. Argo, thank you for posting such informative information on the Reilly air guns and reviving the E.M. Reilly & Co. thread! there is more information in this thread about the company than likely appears anywhere.

My first "good" English gun was a Reilly and when I searched for information I came up with very little. Thanks to the research being done by you and others who've posted in this thread, that paucity of information is being remedied.
Again, Thanks!...Geo
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/11/17 08:42 PM

Thanks George. I have more interesting serial numbers for Reilly guns but will wait to post till I can parse out a few more early Reilly's from Hoborn bars and 316 High Holborn. Modestly, I believe this board now has in one place the most extensive information available on Reilly anywhere. I just wish people who have early Reilly's or know where they might be owned or displayed would post. I'd follow up. Gene Williams
Posted by: Krakow Kid

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/19/17 08:52 AM

Argo, THANK YOU so much for this, to say the least, enthralling study of one of my favorite names in the history of vintage British firearms.

I own two E. M. Reilly double rifles, both caliber .500 BPE

Serial numbers are as follows: 18766 and 18954

Both bear the London and Paris addresses, and both are gorgeous guns aesthetically and superb as shooters.

Thank You again for your scholarly dedication to this most worthy of subjects.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/19/17 07:21 PM

==================================================================================================
18766, 18954 (both 1874)



Krakow, Many thanks. I added your two guns when you first sent me a note about a year ago. You'll see them in the master list. I'm sure people (me) would love to see photos of them. If you could post photos...all would benefit.
-- go to photobucket.com
-- sign in/or create an account (it's free)
-- drag your photo into "upload."
-- once it's in your library, copy the img "url" code and put the code in your post.

And I was in Rome in October 1978 when Pope JP-II was invested...and was living there when he died in April 2005. Great great man.
Posted by: SXS 40

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/03/17 03:46 PM


Any idea what the last year of manufacture was for a Reilly shotgun?
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/03/17 08:11 PM

==================================================================================================
1918-22 - Charles Riggs

Edit: This post has been extensively changed; and as it was posted at the time, is wrong on several points. Riggs did not take over the Reilly name until August 1922. See P.20 etc.

Take a look at the 3rd post on page one which has a highly detailed history of the Reilly's from 1780 to 1904, much of it never published before. Here is the history of Reilly from 1904 on...cribbed mostly from TRW999 on this site; I have not looked at newspaper ads etc. to verify this; the internet can be an endless circle of disinformation but I trust TRW999's research:

In 1903 277 Oxford Street was vacated prior to re-building, and the firm was recorded at 295 Oxford Street.

From 1903 to 1912 the firm was at 295 Oxford Street.

In 1912 E M Reilly & Co Ltd was recorded at 13 High Street, Marylebone. The directors of this limited company were H Reilly and C W Roberts (see page 16 for information about the Reilly bankruptcy).

In 1917 (edit: actually 1922) the company ( E M Reilly) was bought by Charles Riggs & Co. Per TRW999 It is believed Charles Riggs worked for James Kerr (& Co) of London (see also London Armoury Co). Charles Riggs & Co ceased trading in 1966. (No further info on the source of this information) (it would be interesting to research the fate of Reilly's two sons after this sale...probably worked as gunsmiths or gun repairers someplace).
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=333352

Riggs was located at 107 Bishopsgate, London E3. He stamped his names on a lot of guns as “C. Riggs” apparently including BSA SMLE Enfields per the following.



Charles Riggs were a sporting outfitters, that sold, "Everything for Sport and the Sportsman" as well as motors and motorcycles. They were main dealers for everything BSA and had a large stand at Bisley. A catalog exists from the 1920’s with pictures of the shop front with all the BSA advertising, the gun department, works and offices and even the managing director.

Such was Reilly’s prestige that Riggs continued to use the Reilly name right up until its own demise. In a 1924 catalog, an ‘introduction’ by Riggs for Reilly guns states “Reilly needs no comment here, having been established for almost 100 years and it’s reputation for craftsmanship and value is a household word.” It is widely reported that Riggs ceased trading in 1966.

Per Gun Digest 2014, today, the E.M. Reilly name is owned by Charlie Pfleer of Hill Rod & Gun, in Bozeman, Montana, a dealer in vintage double guns and guns cases.

Per another site, the name “E M Reilly & Company Gun Manufacturers Ltd” is now owned by Newton & Co (Chartered Accountants) Ranmore House 19 Ranmore Road, Dorking Surrey, RH4 1HE; Tel: 01306 884208; newton-co@tiscali.co.uk. The business is described as “dormant.”
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/03/17 08:17 PM

==================================================================================================
1922 + - Charles Riggs Reilly numbering system - 6 digits



As I mentioned in the main line...the last Reilly serial number I can date with some confidence is 35678 which would have been numbered at 295 Oxford Street, after 277 was closed, the last marker date. So 35678 was probably dated between 1905-1911? (note: I cannot confirm this; this number came from a site looking for a missing pair - thus I assume the pair is still at large; but I have not seen the rib or the actual SN).

I have found this gun with an E.M Reilly name and a six digit serial number, seeming to indicate that whomever began numbering the newer Reilly's bumped the succession up by 100,000+. You'd think that if the Reilly name were placed on mass produced guns, there'd be a lot more around. (Note: I've been unable to access the close-up photos of this gun and thus cannot verify the serial number etc.).

140451
Name: E.M. REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: E. M. Reilly, 16g. with nice long 30" barrels
Comment: Steel barrels, 2 1/2. 30” Barrels, 6 lbs, 5 oz. Where did that SN come from?
http://www.vintagedoubles.com/catalog/?keywords=REILLY
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/03/17 08:52 PM

While I'm about it, here are some not previously posted Reilly serial numbers to take a look at. See Page one for SN 0-25,000; page 3 for 25,000-35700. There are some beautiful Reilly's here. Still researching. I just went through French sites and added several guns as follows:

Xxxxx
Name: J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON
Description: A 10-BORE PERCUSSION DOUBLE-BARRELLED WILDFOWLING-GUN, no visible serial number, circa 1845, with twist-iron 36in. re-browned barrels, the top-rib signed 'J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON', bead fore-sight, scroll engraved rib-end at breech, scroll engraved 'plugs', engraved top-tang, borderline and scroll engraved bar-action locks signed 'REILLY', scroll engraved dolphin-headed hammers, walnut half-stock chequered at the wrist, iron furniture (heel-plate corroded) and brass mounted mahogany ramrod
.....Comment:
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/j.c.-reilly,-london-a-10-bore-percussion-double-b-531-c-0de80dba2f

7201. **???**
Name: Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London
Description: A mid 19th Century single barrel percussion action gun, by Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London, numbered 7201, the muzzle loading barrel holding brass mounted ebony ramrod under, signed to top and lockplate, engraved steel mounts with feather scrolls to walnut butt and stock, in original mahogany fitted case with maker's label to inner lid; two Sykes patent shot flasks, one with embossed leather bag; one Reilly shot tin; and other fittings. Hammer Price: £700.00
.....Comment: June 2016 auction; muzzle loader. Its been assumed that EM Reilly began consecutive SN beginning at 8,400 when they moved to 502 New Oxford Street and this is born out by labels and serial numbers. However, If this SN is correct, it may mean that EM Reilly began serial numbering his wares beginning at SN 8,400 upon arriving at 502 while JC Reilly kept the old numbering system or began anew at around 7,000, separating their production to some extent. This JC Reilly has the 502 address meaning post 1847 but the number just doesn't fit the Reilly progression. This is not clear - did JC number guns on his own? Or is the entry wrong? - more examples are needed..
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...20-a61700c0a9c0


10670
Name: REILLY, 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: E.M. Reilly percussion double rifle in its makers case
.....Comment: Damascus barrels; no mention of caliber. Muzzle loader; beautiful work.
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100838077

11xxx ?? (take a look at this 1850's "Puff the Magic Dragon" aka "Spooky")
Name: E.M. REILLY, 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON (on case Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London).
Description: A rare cased four barreled percussion gun by Reilly, dating: mid-19th Century, provenance: London. Round, smooth barrels; the upper ones are 11 mm cal.
.....Comment: No SN. 4 (Four!!) Beautiful Damascus barrels. Muzzle loader. Looks to be late 1850’s; “EM” is clearly on the rib. "Reilly London" on the side plates. Can't figure out how the four hammers work with two triggers (looks like you pull the trigger...recock the hammer, flip over a hammer extension and pull it again). As such I’d estimate the SN should be around 11200). (It would be nice to look at the gun or to have the auction house post a SN).
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a-...42-c-a92474cb0a
.....Comment: the label in the case is unique (haven't seen the like). It uses "Reilly" not "EM" (though the gun has EM on the rib) and has the 502 address. It has two medals, "Exposition Medal London" and "Prize Medal Paris" (can't read the dates - might refer to his stand at the London Fair 1851 and at Paris in 1855). Sanscrit writing on the label... and there is a French phrase "Fusils a bascule" on the label. The gun is amazing. Take a look.




10700-14000. ????
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: 8 Gauge, single shot, center break, underleaver; Hammer gun; A classic Reilly 8 Bore, with all original furniture and damascus barrel; this is truly something special for wildfowlers interested in using a classic design. Damascus barrel 34”, 9 lbs 10 oz; Chamber length 3 1/4”.
.....Comment: This an awesome cannon of a gun. No rebounding hammers; no Paris address. I’d estimate by appearances it would be 1860-64 (after Reilly started using EM on his guns). SN should be between 10500-14000. (If anyone can find out who bought it, I’d welcome having the SN).
https://www.guntrader.uk/dealers/central...160622150501002

10600-15600
Name: E.M Reilly & Co., London
Description: 4 bore belted ball hammer percussion rifle muzzle loader. Tapered octagon twist bbl is mounted with one standing leaf rear, and “certifiable antique elephant ivory” blade front sight. Top flat is engraved “E. M. Reilly & Co. London”. Bottom flat is stamped with Birmingham black powder proof. Case hardened patent breech is engraved with large open scroll. Case hardened breech iron with integral fence is engraved with large shaded scroll. Large bar action lockplate is mounted with tall, round bodied, slightly serpentine hammer. Hammer and lockplate are engraved with more large open scroll. “E. M. Reilly & Co” is on front portion of plate. Trigger plate is mounted with germanic type double set triggers, and trigger must be set before lock can be cocked. Trigger guard with squared bow has shell finial, and is also scroll engraved. Full length stock with swan-necked butt, is of indeterminate tropical wood (restocked in South Africa?); blued steel buttplate. Stock features large germanic style swept shadow line left hand cheekpiece. A hand forged ramrod is held by single plain pipe. Weight: 16 lbs. 6 oz.
.....Comment: Holy cow..What a thumb sized load of lead. No way to identify the date other than after 1859 (when EM appeared on ribs) and before 1868 (when Rue Scribe appeared). SN should be between 10600 and 15600.
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/2347-391/


109xx ??
Name: E.M REILLY & CO, LONDON?
Description: 16 bore by E.M Reilly. Estimated 1855 (by the auction house). 6 1/2 lbs, 29 3/4” damascus barrels. Underleaver centerbreak. 2 1/2 chambers. (no SN published).
.....Comment: (From appearances, believe the date should be 1859 because of the “E.M.” on the rib. “EM” was added to guns beginning around 1859 - SN 11651; although I’ve found a couple of guns, 10,621 (I'm not quite sure I believe this) & 11227, which might have “E.M.” on their ribs)(see main list on 1st page).
http://www.gunstar.co.uk/e-m-reilly-co-pin-fire-16-bore-gauge-side-by-side/Shotguns/903733?op=photos


(1)3514
Name: Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London.
Description: Double muzzle loading shotgun, 27” Damascus barrels with ramrod; 6 lbs, 15 Oz. Double trigger. C1850. Case in original mahogany case with Reilly trade label. Barrels marked 13 bore. SN is allegedly "3514".
….Comment: Reilly made odd gauges - see the Australian ad from 1866 (Historical post) advertising 12, 15, 17 and 24 bore pin-fires. However this serial cannot be correct with that address. I suspect there’s a “1” in front of it. 13514 would be late 1862/early 1863.
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns-black-powder/reilly/percussion/12-gauge/170610144659005


17612
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET,
Description: Chiens extérieurs, deux coups, calibre 12-65. Canons damas juxtaposés de 76 cm. Bascule, platines et chiens gravés de rinceaux. Ouverture par clé devant pontet. Crosse en noyer quadrillé de 37,5 cm. Avec pièce de pouce en or chiffrée “JL” sous couronne. N°17612
.....Comment: Sold at an auction in Cannes, 23 Juillet 2016. EM Reilly hammer gun, underlever. SN would indicate it was number around 1872.
https://www.auction.fr/_fr/lot/fusil-de-...83#.WTXwCRiZPMU

20125
Name: E.M REILLY & Co…….
Description: Lot n° 363 - Réf. 1101431; Fusil REILLY cal. 12 N°20125 concurrent Purdey de 1875 à 1884 avec sa Valise.
.....Comment: Reilly 12 gauge shotgun, SN 20125; Located next to Purdy from 1875-1884; with its case. (No further info). 20125 would have both the London and Paris address on the rib. SN would indicate it was numbered about Spring 1876.
http://www.cappelaere-prunaux.com/index.php?page=009&NbPage=20&IdPage=19&num_vente=110

20467
Name: EM Reilly & Co, Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris
Description: damascus barrelled, 30", 12g, side lever hammer gun; From its condition, I suspect the gun may have spent some time resting in a gun room for many years before resurfacing. Recently reproofed (2 3/4", nitro)
.....Comment: Gun posted on this board by “Irrational.” I estimated that the gun was made (numbered) in Autumn 1876, possibly September/October.
[img]http://thumbsnap.com/2uJCbX4V[/img]

21339 (second of a pair)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London
Description: 12-bore hammer gun. Engraved '2' on the rib and triggerguard tang, Jones patent rotary-underlever, rebounding sidelocks, best foliate-scroll engraving, well-figured stock with recoil-pad, the damascus barrels with game-rib. Weight 6lb. 13oz., 15in. pull (14½in stock), 30in. barrels, both approx. I.C., 2½in. chambers, London nitro proof.
…..Comment: Based on serial number likely numbered in 1878.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21659/lot/53/

21761
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON & RUE SCRIBE, PARIS
Description: E M Reilly double rifle for me. It is a hammer gun
.....Comment: Purdey under bolts and dual side bolts. chambered for 500 BPE. HWK’s gun from this board; he bought several of Terry Buffum’s guns. (I estimate that it was numbered in 1879).

22038
Name: E.M REILLY ?
Description: A very nice antique English Double Barreled Hammer Sporting Gun by Reilly London, No 22038, 12 gauge, length 117 cm,with original leather bag,
.....Comment: see Bolk antiques. cannot find the descriptions or pictures of the actual gun. This description is from the google search only.
www.belgiumantiques.com.

22077
Name:
Description: Hammerless underlever 12 guage; Damascus barrels; Whitworth patent.
.....Comment: Located in Mexico. Beautiful work - check out the photos
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d94/berettaman7/Reilly1.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d94/berettaman7/Reilly3.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d94/berettaman7/Reilly4.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d94/berettaman7/Reilly6.jpg
https://www.mexicoarmado.com/archive/index.php/t-52866.html

25572
Name: E.M. Reilly, 16 New Oxford Street, London and Paris
Description: E.M. Reilly .450 BPE; Good to find condition. Three proof marks - London provisional proof since 1856; Crown over interconnect GP; London definitive black power proof; and the crown over V since 1670 London view mark. Purchased in Spain by a relative in 1950’s. 10 lbs, 28” barrel, .450 caliber; gold inlay - E.M Reilly, London and Paris, “To their majesties the kings of Spain and Portugal” on top of the barrel; Double hammer. Three sights. COC 9 under the barrel; SN 25,572. Fancy scroll work.
.....Comment: Hammer gun, underlever. SN would place it about 1884
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/what-is-it-and-when-was-it-made.671624/

27377
Name: Not Mentioned.
Description: Not mentioned.
.....Comment: I was asked by a member on this board located in California for the estimated age of the SN. No mention of the gun. Estimate it was that it was made/numbered o/a Nov 1887. No further into available.

27854
Name: Not Mentioned.
Description: Not mentioned.
.....Comment: I was asked by a member on this board located in California for the estimated age of the SN. No mention of the gun. Estimate it was that it was made/numbered o/a Nov 1887. No further into available.

285xx ??
Name: E.M REILLY & Co, 277 Oxford Street, London.
Description: Boxlock by EM Reilly. Built on a Westley Richards action with the WR patented top lever and dolls head. Lovely Damascus tubes. Nice wood. Scroll engraved. Ejector. Intercepting sears. Original black powder proof. Number 2 of a pair. Action flats marked “Deeley ejector patent 427” (1880?) and “Anson & Deeley patent 6265 (about 1887?)
.....Comment: No SN provided. Gun was in Norway. 277 Oxford Street would be after 1881 when Oxford St. was renumbered; no Paris address would be after Aug 1886. Say numbered around 1890 - SN about 28,500?
https://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?t=15506

303xx
Name: E.M. REILLY, 277 OXFORD ST. LONDON
Description: E.M.Reilly bar-in wood 12 bore with Whitworth steel barrels circa 1885 with 2 3/4" chambers, 30" mod. and full and nitro proofed. It has a large capital "B" in 24 carat gold where the oval would normally be and was purported to have belonged to the Duke of Bedford,who was an avid pigeon shot.
.....Comment: (underlever). This is Terry Lubzinski’s gun…Terry states per below that it has "NOT FOR BALL" on the barrels, indicating barrels proofed 1887 or earlier. However the SN indicates it may have been numbered in early 1892. Apparently Reilly had barrels stockpiled and proofed for stock. (to be checked out)
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191402&page=all

32971
Name: E.M Reilly & Co,, 16 New Oxford Street, London
Description: 30" barrels with no chokes designed for ball or shot. Bores show moderate pitting and have 2 1/2" chambers. Action is engraved in English rose and scroll. Locks up tight and on face with all numbers matching. LOP is 14 1/8" to the horn buttplate. Drop is 1 1/2" and 2 1/2". Flip up sight for use with the ball.
Comments: Numbered around 1895
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/656130120

33269
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD ST., LONDON
Description: A fine double barrelled breech loading gun by E. M. Reilly & Co, dating: 1875-1890 London. Round, smooth (medium signs of use inside)
Damascus, 12 gauge barrels, rib provided with a signature 'E. M. REILLY & Co OXFORD ST. LONDON', front sight; tang engraved with floral motifs, lever; backward spring locks signed 'E. M. REILLY & CO LONDON' and finely engraved with floral motifs, briar root stock with checkered grip and palm rest, mounts decorated en suite. Serial number '33269'.
length 113 cm.
.....Comment: March, 2017 auction. SN would indicated is was numbered somewhere close to 1895-6.
https://www.auction.fr/_fr/lot/a-fine-do...65#.WRST2BiZPMU

33619
Name: (no name on rib since it was rebarreled)
Description: Sidelock SxS now with steel barrels, sleeved by Westley Richards 50 years ago; 28” Barrels; Stock:14 “; Chokes:1/2 & FullTrigger:2
…..Comment: Per SN the gun should have been numbered around 1896.
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/reilly-em

34330
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET,
Description: Très fin Fusil E.M. REILLY & Co cal.410 (n°34330) à chiens extérieurs et percussion centrale. Ouverture par clé serpent latérale. Canons juxtaposés de 66 cm. Crosse anglaise en beau noyer
....Comment: Very fine rifle EM REILLY & CO; 410 hammer gun - center fire. Opens by lateral key. Double barrel - 26”. The serial number would put it close to 1897-8.
http://www.coutaubegarie.com/html/fiche....amp;aff=&r=



34478
Name: E.M REILLY, LONDON
Description: E.M. Reilly of London 12g. with lovely 30" nitro proofed Damascus barrels and cased
.....Comment: Box lock; Damascus, 30” barrels; 6lbs, 13 oz. Per the serial number probably numbered in 1897 or 98.
http://www.vintagedoubles.com/catalog/?keywords=REILLY

34xxx ??
Name: E.M. Reilly (rest of the address not stated)
Description: SxS 12 bore 1898 sidelock ejector. Restocked 1975;
reproofed 1975.
…..Comment: Cannot identify a serial number from the pics. an
1898 Reilly should be around SN 34700. It could have either 16
New Oxford Street or 277 New Oxford Street.
[url=Thttps://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/130046-Rare-EM-Reilly-side-by-side][url=Thttps://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/130046-Rare-EM-Reilly-side-by-side][url=Thttps://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/130046-Rare-EM-Reilly-side-by-side]Thttps://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/130046-Rare-EM-Reilly-side-by-side[/url][/url][/url]

Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., NEW OXFORD STREET & RUE SCRIBE PARIS
Description: Carabine-Express Reilly, à percussion centrale, chiens extérieurs. 2 coups, calibre « 500 », extracteur. Canons juxtaposés, en damas tabac, de 66 cm, marqué sur la bande « E.M. Reilly & Co New Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris ». Bascule, platines signées « E.M. Reilly & Co London » et chiens finement gravés de rinceaux feuillagés, jaspés. Double détentes. Crosse demi-pistolet, à joue, en noyer de 37 cm, en partie quadrillé. Dans une valise recouverte de cuir décoré de cloutage en laiton, garni à l’intérieur de feutre vert.
.....Comment: Sold for 1200 euros 23 Nov 2007. This is a 500 express SxS rifle hammer gun. Barrels are Damascuss, 26”. Case color. No serial number. Unfortunately, the best it can be dated with this limited data is after the opening of Rue Scribe and before its closing between Feb 1868-Aug 1886.
http://fraysse.net/listings/carabine-exp...-coups-calibre/

Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., 16 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: Fusil de chasse EM Reilly, à percussion centrale, chiens extérieurs. 2 coups, calibre 410, extracteur. Canons juxtaposés de 66 cm, marqué sur la bande « EM Reilly & C° 16 New Oxford St London ». Bascule et platines arrières signées « EM Reilly &C° », gravées de rinceaux feuillagés. Clef d'ouverture sur le coté gauche. Crosse en noyer de 36 cm, en partie quadrillé. Poids : 1,890 kg.
.....Comment: EM Reilly 410 shotgun. 26” barrels. Hammer gu. Top key breaks left. Weight (an astonishing 4 lbs 2 oz.). This gun might be identical to 34330 above. Address of 16 New Oxford Street would put it after the renumbering of Oxford Street - post January 1882 and without Rue Scribe likely between 1886 and 1898. Can’t say more without a serial number or other info.
http://www.alliance-encheres.com/fr/lot.php?idvente=650&idlot=148121

Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET,
Description: Prestigieuse maison londonienne du XIX°, ce type de verrouillage était leur signature sur les modèles artisanaux prestigieux. Maison créée à Londre en 1847 et installée au 502 New Oxford Street, par père et fils Reilly. En 1859 J.C Reilly devient Reilly & Co et ouvre une seconde adresse au 315 Oxford Street, dans les anciens locaux de Joseph Manton, à côté à James Purdey. En 1869 une nouvelle adresse s"ouvre, cette fois ci à Paris, au 2 Rue Scribe.ccCette adresse française sera fermé en 1872. En 1884, Reilly de retour en France, s’installera au 29 rue du Faubourg St Honoré. Cette dernière adresse fermera en 1898.
Cet exemplaire, en très très bel état, date d'entre 1869 et 1872. En calibre 12, chose rare à cette époque, il est équipé d'autant plus rares canons de 76 cm.
.....Comment: 2 1/2. 30” Damascus barrels. Front side lock w/exterior hammers. Description in French is fraught with errors, especially the history of Reilly. It claims the gun dates between 1869 and 1872. However, it gives no SN or address on the rib of the gun, thus this cannot be confirmed.
http://www.naturabuy.fr/Fusil-REILLY-Co-...em-3743065.html

Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., 277 OXFORD STREET,
Description: Fusil de chasse à platines Reilly. 2 coups, calibre 12/65, éjecteurs. Canons juxtaposés de 76 cm,marqué sur la bande " E.M. Reilly & Co 277 Oxford Street London ". Chokes droit : lisse,. 729, épaisseur. 30 ; gauche : ¾,. 728, épaisseur. 31. Bascule et platines signées " E.M. Reilly & Co ", gravées de rinceaux feuillagés. Double détentes. Sûreté automatique. Crosse en noyer de 38,5 cm, avec rallonge de 3,5 cm, en partie quadrillé. 3,256 kg (fort avantage à droite)
....Comment: Auction in Paris; sold for 2,000 Euros. 12 gauge, 2 1/2”. 30” barrels. Sidelock. double triggers; automatic safety. Weighs 7 lbs 3oz. Without additional info, the gun can only be dated after the numbering change on New Oxford street…post January 1882.
http://www.millon-associes.com/html/fich...mp;aff=3&r=

140451
Name: E.M Reilly, London
Description: A 16 bore side by side box lock shotgun by E. M. Reilly, Serial No. 140451, 29.5ins blued steel barrels, top rib engraved "E.M. Reilly, London", bright steel lock with minimal decoration, walnut stock and fore end with chequered grip, 47ins overall. 6 lbs, 5 oz.
….Commment: Gun was numbered after the takeover of the company by Charles Riggs in 1917. I have no idea on dating these guns throught SN sequence because of lack of records.
https://www.thecanterburyauctiongalleries.com/Lot/?sale=FA081215&lot=640&id=32651

http://www.vintagedoubles.com/catalog/?keywords=REILLY

150570
Name: E.M Reilly & Co., London
Description: E.M. Reilly, 12 ga. Boxlock non-ejector game gun. 28" barrels, 2-1/2" chambers. Stock probably re-finished at some time, wood flush with metal. Splinter foreend with ebony or horn (?) insert. Choked Cylinder and Modified. Modest hand cut engraving, nearly all of the case color present. Barrels most likely re-blacked at some time. Rib engraved "E.M. Reilly, London". Barrels have Birmingham proofs. Action floor plate turning plum. 6# 12 oz, 14-3/4" LOP, 1-5/8" DAC, 2-5/8" DAH, slight cast off for right hand.
Comments: Appears to be a gun built after the takeover of the company by Charles Riggs in 1917.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/657819226
Posted by: SXS 40

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/04/17 07:25 PM

Hi Argo,

I am attempting to establish the manufacture date of ser. no. 24850, as being before 1898. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Posted by: skeettx

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/04/17 07:44 PM

WELL this may help

http://www.heritageguns.co.uk/Reilly%2012%20SLE%2035079/Reilly%2012%20SLE%2035079%20Details.htm

no. 35079
Date of manufacture: pre 1896

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=270014
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/04/17 08:57 PM

==================================================================================================
24850 (Late 1882)



SXS, I don't have your gun in the master list. We like to see pics and obtain some additional info for historical purposes if possible. Does your gun have "Rue Scribe" or Paris on the rib?

Per the above chronology and serial number list, I'd estimate 24850 to have been numbered between November 1883 and February 1884.

Analysis or how you can use those serial number lists to date your gun:
— 15270 is the first Paris address on a rib I've found; he opened Rue Scribe in early Feb 1868 (see the History chronology - 3rd post on this line).
— 26584 is the last gun I've found with a Paris address; he closed Rue Scribe in August 1886.

Between Feb 68 and Aug 86 (222 months) he numbered about 11,200 guns; that would be about 50+ numbered guns a month at a steady rate (and it obviously fluctuated).(on reflection this production rate stayed pretty steady from 1868 to 1898 - perhaps this was the maximum he could produce?)..say 620 a year.

So just assuming this is correct, your gun would be about the 9,600th numbered gun produced after he opened Rue Scribe… 192 months after Feb 1868 = 16 years. So I’d estimate it to be have been made in Feb-March 1884...counting forward from the 1868 marker date.

You can also count backward from the August 1886 marker date. 26584 is the last gun numbered before the close of Rue Scribe, August 1886. Your gun was the 1,734th gun numbered before the close of Rue Scribe - at 50 a month = about 34 months. August 1886 minus thirty four months would put it in Nov/Dec 1883.

To check further...look at the patents on your gun. It may have the following:
1863 - Patent: 'Purdey Bolt' patent no. 1104
1864 - Patent: 'Scott Spindle' patent no. 2752
1872 - Patent: Anson's fore-end fastener patent no. 3791
1874 - Patent: Needham patented a hammerless, barrel-cocking gun which was also the first ejector in 1874.
1875 - Patent: W.M. Scott's patent 3223
1875 - Patent: Anson & Deely patent; the first hammerless gun with top lever.
1878 - Patent: Mills 3rd bite patent no 4980
1878 - Patent: Patent Number 761 was recorded by William Middleditch Scott and Thomas Baker

It should not have the later patents seen on Reilly's such as:
1889 - Patent; Southgate lockwork, ejector and interceptor sear patent no 12314
1893 - Patent; Southgate's ejector trip patent no 8239
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/04/17 09:20 PM

And Skeetz, Thanks for the reference. Re the first link, please check the above postings (second page) on this line: Here is what Toby Barclay had to say about 35079:

"Argo44, I sold 35079 a few years back but checked my listing and the address was 277 Oxford Street. However the proof marks showed the gun was probably PROOFED pre-1896 so maybe made for stock and then finished and numbered accordingly.... Congratulations for having put this information together."

And here was my response:

"Thanks Toby - I've fixed 35079 on the list. It's interesting that the barrels were proofed pre-1896; Per the serial number you'd think it should have been numbered/finished about 1901-02 or so, depending on how many guns Reilly was selling (per a later post below, it looks as if he were selling about 130 per year from 1898-1903). If Reilly stockpiled barrels and actions, maybe that was how they were able to respond to orders with alacrity.
"I also wonder if Reilly started falling on hard times about this time. EM had died and he was highly respected apparently and quite a marketing genius. There are a number of SN's in the 35000's per above which were matched pair double-guns, which would seem to indicate not everything was going right (did Reilly's sons start pillaging its stocks to create "matched pairs?).
"Sales of numbered guns had declined from an average of 650/year to 130/yr. And I can't find any number above 35631 (listed as a matched pair above)(was this a sale? two for the price of one?).
"Well, the industry was changing; it must have been hard to compete with the factories. Damascus barrels were oh so 19th century. (and there was a smear campaign being waged against them which continues to this day). A way of life was ending."

And re the second link, If you read through the historical post (1st page, 3rd post on this line) and the other postings including the serial number chronology on this line, I modestly believe you'll find that this line has the most comprehensive information available on Reilly's anywhere and has corrected errors that have been in print for decades.
Posted by: SXS 40

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/05/17 08:48 PM



Thank you to skeettx for the response, and especially to Argo44 for all the time spent tabulated all this information.

This has been a great help in determining specifics on a manufacturer, that has previously had little information to draw from.
Posted by: Oberndorf

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/06/17 05:32 PM

Some pics of my Reilly Serial# 33950 for this thread. Sidelock ejector with 30" steel barrels....





The pin position is different from what is normally seen but I think it is 7 pin.





Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/06/17 07:41 PM

==================================================================================================
33950. (early 1896)



O, I got 33950 early on from your DGS 2012 line and it's in the master list on the 3rd page. I'd estimate 33950 was numbered sometime in early 1896 (depending on the month 16 New Oxford closed) although this is a little more problematical than the period 1868-1886 as follows:

Analysis:
26584 is the last SN I've found with Rue Scribe on it, closed Aug 1886.
34723 (My gun) is the last gun found with 16 New Oxford St...closed 1898 (I have not determined the month - will work on that)

In 12 years (say 144 months) from 1886-98 he numbered 8,140 guns about 56 a month - 670 a year if he produced at a steady rate. Yours is 773 numbers before 16 New Oxford Street closed... meaning it should have been numbered about 14 months beforehand.

Here's the problem. EM died in 1890 and his business was taken over presumably by his 19 year old son Charles and/or his wife or partners (unknown). Toby Barclay noted that his 35079 barrels had been proofed before 1896 but the SN indicates it was numbered around 1902. So something seems not quite right business-wise with the firm from this distance and the closure of 16 New Oxford Street itself was an indication business was slowing down. It would be interesting to take a look at your barrel proof marks to see when they were proofed.

Whatever, 33950 is a totally elegant and beautifully proportioned shotgun with tasteful etching. It's what made me put my hand on my 34723 hammer gun at that gun show in 2015 and once I touched it I just couldn't unclench my fist.
Posted by: Terry Lubzinski

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/07/17 12:17 AM

My apologizes for not following up on a posting I made in 2010 and adding some information that may add to your chronological listings.Said posting can be found at this address
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191402&page=all
xxxxx - (1880’s?)
Name: Not mentioned.
Description: E.M.Reilly bar-in wood 12 bore with Whitworth steel barrels circa 1885 with 2 3/4" chambers,30" mod. and full and nitro proofed. It has a large capital "B" in 24 carat gold where the oval
Comment: This is Terry Lubinski’s gun…He could add more info including SN, and address on rib, etc.
The gun is serial # 303xx and has only the 277 Oxford St. address not the Rue Scribe.What may be helpful is that the original black powder proofs include Not For Ball which should place the gun at 1887 or earlier.The gun is a personal favorite and still performs regular service at sporting clays
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/07/17 04:08 PM

==================================================================================================
303xx (late 1888-1889)



Terry, according to the serial numbers your gun should have been numbered in early 1892. So why the "not for Ball" on the gun when that mark expired in 1887? Toby's gun 35079 had the barrels proofed before 1896 but they weren't mated with a stock/action and numbered until about 1902. So it looks like Reilly had barrels stockpiled waiting for an order. Can you read the proof date on your barrels? I'll check mine on 34723 tonight...I suspect we'll find a pattern.

I'm adding your gun to the new list of SN's above moving it from the "xxx"'s.
Posted by: JBLondon

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/04/17 08:28 PM

Argo, thanks for your help in swaying me toward this purchase and tentative dating of early months in 1869. #15857 12 gauge with non-rebounding hammers. 7lbs, 7 oz, 30" bbls, and very shootable dimensions. Would like to see more contrast in the finish of the barrels so perhaps a re-refinish is in order. Otherwise absolutely love it!





Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/07/17 04:09 PM

==================================================================================================
15857 (1869)



Beautiful hammergun JB. The tiger striped French Walnut stock reminds me of my own but a deeper color. That is a bargain.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/07/17 04:10 PM

Terry Buffum, I posted the Reilly SN's you auctioned off that I was able to pull off the internet; SxS40 added several that I did not get that I'll add to my next SN chronological update. But if you have a list of your Reillys, could you check over my list and tell me if any are missing? Also, if you have another JC Reilly as you mentioned, I'd very much like to get its SN and the address off the rib...I don't have a lot of data points from the early years. Thanks:

Reilly's auctioned by Terry that are in the original chronology:

176 (pistols)
13033
14985
15283
15531
18550 - (from an addendum I'm still compiling)
20396
21761 - (from a subsequent list posted in the line)
21883
24354
24850 - (from an addendum not yet posted)
27570
30207
32667
32974
34221
34222
34247
35472
35493

Terry's Reilly's bought by SxS 40 not yet added to the chronological list:

No 7869 - J C Reilly, percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader, 12ga. rib marked J C Reilly New Oxford St. London
No 15287 - Jones under lever hammer gun 12ga. rib marked, Oxford St. London
No 14985 - Jones under lever hammer gun, 16ga. rib marked, E M Reilly Oxford St. London
No 21761 - Woodward snap action with side bolts, quadra bolt? 500 BPE rifle
barrels marked E M Reilly New Oxford St. London & Rue Scribe Paris
No 22093 - Woodward snap action, 12ga. no rib or barrel markings
No 24850 - Back action side lock, hump back, H&H style, 12ga. New barrels by Darlow's of Norwich, marked on rib
No 26557 - Jones under lever hammer gun, 20ga. barrels marked, EM. Reilly Gun & Rifle maker, 16 New Oxford St & Rue Scribe Paris
Posted by: Terry Buffum

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/07/17 05:03 PM

Argo 44,
If you will give me your e-mail address, I will send you the consignment list for Amoskeag. See your PMs.

I'll also get out the two Reillys I still have (and look for others I've tucked away and forgotten) and send the info on them in the next few days.

Terry
Posted by: Terry Buffum

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/07/17 08:16 PM

I had two images of the Dave Wesbrook photos scanned and reduced for posting. If someone is willing to do that for me, I can email them to you.

My profile has e-mail info.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/08/17 01:24 AM

Terry, I'll post them. Sending you an email via PM. (I've never heard of someone who's not sure how many Reilly's might still be "tucked away" somewhere. You are a walking encyclopedia.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/12/17 01:29 AM

Here are Terry's images of the Dave Wesbrook photos of his bar-in-wood Reilly (Attendance at Vegas is going to go up): (Terry, what's the SN and the address on the rib ?)(if it has one; assume it's been rebarrelled at some point?)

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/12/17 01:44 AM

And here is his consignment list (had to break it up into parts to get the photo site to accept it). I go through an extract the Reilly's for the SN chronology

The amazing thing is I spent months collecting the SN's and chronicling the actions and address on the ribs of Reilly's. I got a library of about 220 (less than 1% of Reilly's numbered guns) and was able to make some historical judgements from that. Terry just sold 75...you heard it 75..fully 33% of the guns I found....and he still has more lying around someplace!!:







Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/12/17 02:37 PM

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/12/17 03:59 PM

Frustrating when an auction house like this is to niggardly with information about the gun; no SN, name on rib nothing. but it weighs 9 lbs + has 34"+ barrel, and a 3 1/2 chamber. Non rebounding hammer patented in 1867 so say pre-1870?...with probably EM Reilly, New Oxford St and possibly post Feb 1868 wit Rue Scribe as well? (difficult to say). (I probably already have catalogued this gun someplace).
http://gavingardiner.com/BidCat/detail.asp?SaleRef=0032&LotRef=243

Posted by: Terry Buffum

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/12/17 06:52 PM

Serial is 27750, address on left tube is E. M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London.

Barrels are original, Whitworth Compressed Steel, bores marked 12/14 on both, Not for Ball
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/13/17 12:33 AM

Thanks. Turns out I did have that gun, just mislabeled it as "27570." I'd estimate that 27750 was made in the late Spring, early summer 1888. We noticed that some Reilly barrels had traits which would date them somewhat earlier than the gun SN would indicate (not for ball on the barrels for instance)....meaning Riley may have stockpiled barrels.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/14/17 02:50 PM

==================================================================================================
1847 - 57 - JC Reilly and the "7000" series numbers


I’d like to repost some recent conclusions on the Reilly SN chronology in one place for the record.

First to reiterate the background.

— Reilly (JC and EM) numbered about 35,600 guns (minus about a 5000 gap in 1847 + about another 1,000 number by JC after 1847 as detailed below...i.e. 30,000 more or less) between the beginning of his business as a gun builder in the 1820’s until the business dwindled away in the run-up to WWI.

— We don’t know when he made “number 1”. However, one can speculate that this was in the late 1820’s. He was a silver plateworker/engraver and likely engraved guns to start off with. London Times 5 Jan 1831 reported a theft at Reilly’s shop and identified him as “gunmaker and silversmith.” The first ads in London papers for Reilly guns, new and used, began appearing in 1834.

— His first store (1816?-1835) was at 12 Middle Row, Holborn. Believe that the address on the ribs of his guns while at this shop included the phrase “Holborn Bars.” The earliest Reilly long gun I’ve found is SN 162. There are also Terry Buffum’s dueling pistols SN 176 which look to be in the main-stream Reilly SN chronology. Below is a drawing of the building which stuck out into the street where his 12 Middle Row was located. It was demolished in the 1870’s.



— In August 1835 Reilly moved from 12 Middle Row, Holborn to 315 High Holborn. He was there for 17 years. EM at the age of 24 years became a partner in 1840. The first number found with High Holborn on the rib of a long gun is 1174; there is a pistol with “High Holborn” on the rib SN 1024 which may fall in the main Reilly SN chronology. The last gun with High Holborn on the rib is 3329. The guns from this period had the name “Reilly,” “J.C. Reilly,” or “Joseph Charles Reilly.”

— In March 1847 Reillys moved to 502 New Oxford Street where the store remained for 50+ years. The first gun with this address is SN 8463. A history of Reilly postulated that upon the move to 502 New Oxford St., the SN chronology was bumped up to 8,400 and begun anew and ascended with unbroken regularity up to 35,600 +. It could be logically said that the Reilly’s did this in round numbers, 5,000 perhaps, meaning their last gun at High Holborn would have been 3,400 or thereabouts, confirming the SN of the last gun from High Holborn above.

The evidence for the renumbering of Reilly’s beginning at 8,400 in 1847 is overwhelming: Case label from 502 Oxford Street, gun SN 8463. Note “removed from High Holborn” (moved from High Holborn) still on label.



Similar label found on an 1847 air-cane.



Now, however, three SN’s in the 7,900 series have been discovered, all with an address 502 New Oxford Street, and “J.C. Reilly” on the ribs….two long guns and one air cane. These are posted below. The logical conclusion is that in 1847, when the firm moved to New Oxford St, Edward Michael, then 31 years old and soon to be author of a widely disseminated pamphlet on air cane guns, took over the management of the family firm; it kept its name “J.C. Reilly” for awhile; but soon used just “Reilly” on the ribs of its guns. Then in late 1858 the firm began using E.M Reilly marking the end of the transition from JC to EM.

The tentative conclusion on the numbering problem is this:

— Upon the move to 502 New Oxford Street, EM Reilly began numbering long guns beginning with 8400 and using the name “Reilly” on the rib (while retaining for awhile the JC Reilly mark on the case labels.)

— But, it’s also likely that J.C. Reilly, the old man, kept a batch of serial numbers for himself, perhaps to use with long standing customers and that these serial numbers began at 7,900. If this were the case he only made about 800 more guns before he retired entirely and moved to the countryside in the late 1850’s. He died in 1864. Here are the three guns/canes with numbers in the 7,900 series.

7201. **???**
Name: Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London
Description: A mid 19th Century single barrel percussion action gun, by Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London, numbered 7201, the muzzle loading barrel holding brass mounted ebony ramrod under, signed to top and lockplate, engraved steel mounts with feather scrolls to walnut butt and stock, in original mahogany fitted case with maker's label to inner lid; two Sykes patent shot flasks, one with embossed leather bag; one Reilly shot tin; and other fittings. Hammer Price: £700.00
.....Comment: June 2016 auction; muzzle loader. Its been assumed that EM Reilly began consecutive SN beginning at 8,400 when they moved to 502 New Oxford Street and this is born out by labels and serial numbers. However, If this SN is correct, it may mean that EM Reilly began serial numbering his wares beginning at SN 8,400 upon arriving at 502 while JC Reilly kept the old numbering system or began anew at around 7,000, separating their production to some extent. This JC Reilly has the 502 address meaning post 1847 but the number just doesn't fit the Reilly progression. This is not clear - did JC number guns on his own? Or is the entry wrong? - more examples are needed..
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...20-a61700c0a9c0

7801 ??
Name: REILLY, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: REILLY LONDON A RARE CASED 28-BORE PERCUSSION COMBINATION WALKING-STICK GUN serial no. 7801. circa 1845 comprising of a 28 3/4in. re-browned octagonal damascus rifle barrel signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON` (renewed) small dove-tailed crescent fore-sight blued standing notch rear-sight with one folding leaf a 29 3/4in. re-browned damascus round shot barrel with octagonal breech section (unsigned) and an unsigned octagonal 32-bore 3in. re-browned damascus pistol barrel (probably a later addition) matching period London proofs together with a percussion under-hammer squared boxlock action with guarded trigger the top-tang signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON`

Comment:
--this is an early Reilly after they moved to 502 New Oxford Street in late March 1847. It has he picture of 502 indicating it is post 1848-9. For the first 12 months or so after the move the wrote "removed from Holborn" on the labels.
--The SN is interesting because if his air-gun canes were numbered in the same series as his long guns, this is the earliest number after the move. I’ve speculated that EM and JC just jumped numbers up from about 4.500 to 8,400 after the move. However, this cane if the SN is in the long-gun series will change that.
-- (the auction house is wrong; the cane can’t be 1845 and have the New Oxford Street address - see the chronology)
-- Note: I’ve found a JC REILLY shotgun with the 502 New Oxford Street address with a serial number 7280. This is outside of the EM Reilly numbering system - the earliest I found was 8463, which had the label "502 New Oxford" plus "removed from Holborn." (posted below) This makes me wonder whether Joseph Charles and E.M split their serial numbering at this time. i.e. J.C. may have continued with his own numbering system and let EM begin anew with SN’s after 8,400). This will be investigated further. (or it could be that the "7" is actually a "9")
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...f6-a4340134dc99

Label is from the 1858-55 time period



7869
J C Reilly, percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader, 12ga. rib marked J C Reilly New Oxford St. London. Terry Buffum gun bought by SXS40(HWK). I'd really like to see the photos of the barrel flats etc. It's an important gun!

edit: Amazing photos posted here:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=498105#Post498105
Posted by: SXS 40

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/14/17 04:39 PM


I'll try to get you photos by the end of the day.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/15/17 01:09 PM

Here is a list of Terry's Reilly's sold at auction. I think at some point I'll combine all the SN chronologies above including the Terry SN's I didn't have into a new chronological post and this time date them. I should have some time over the next few weeks.

You'll note that 7869 is not mentioned in the spread sheet list. Terry also did not record the name on the rib or the address in his spread sheet. For me the most interesting ones for the historical reasons are
-- 1060 (after a certain time period Reilly stop putting his pistols in his long-gun series but I believe 176 and 1060 may belong; 176 had Holborn Bars and JC Reilly on the ribs; 1060 should have High Holborn and J.C. Reilly if it's in the long gun chronology).
-- 1869 - should be JC Reilly and High Holborn address
-- 3402 - should be JC Reilly and High Holborn; - maybe one of the last guns numbered there before the move to New Oxford St.

Red = additional info/pictures please

176 Brace of percussion dueling pistols
1060 Percussion pocket pistol

1869 SxS percussion hammer gun, 10 ga, cased w/oil bottle etc.
3402 SxS percussion hammer gun .577, cased
13033 SxS pinfire hammer gun, 20 ga rifle. Jones underleer, Damascus barrels, cased,
14985 SxS hammer gun, 16 ga. Jones Patent underlever;
15283 SxS hammer gun 12 ga; ones patent underlever, caed
17476 SxS hammer gun, 12 ga. Purdy thumb snap patent, canvas case
17392 Side lever hammer gun 16 ga
18550 Double rifle, .577 BPE, cased
19827 SxS Hammerless, back-action side lock, 12 ga, side lever opening
20396 SxS hammer gun, 20 ga. Damascus barrels, case
21761 Double Rifle 500, Purdy patent, cased
21883 SxS hammer gun 20 ga
22093 Woodward Automatic 12 ga., case
23818 Side Lever Rook Rifle 22 LR (relined)
24354 SxS 12 ga
24627....................500 BPE 28" barrels
24672 Lang Trigger Plate 16 ga
25460 SxS hammerless back-action side lock, 12 ga. Live pigeon gun. Case
27377 SxS 12 ga. W&C Scott Crystal Indicator Action, 3 barrel set; Nitro proof 3rd barrel steel/sleeved
27570 SxS hammer gun, 16 ga,
27854 SxS W&C Scott Crystal Indicator Action, Side lever 12 Ga, case
26537 SxS hammer gun, 28 ga, Jones Patent underlever
30342 SxS hammerless box lock, 12 ga. Live pigeon gun, Damascus barrels, case
30207 SxS 10 bore
30846 double rifle, Anson and Deely action w/ Greener cross bolt 45 cal
32667 SxS hammer gun 10 ga
32974 SxS hammer gun, 12 ga.
34221 SxS hammer gun, 450 nr 2 musket -pair
34222 SxS hammer gun, 16 ga shotgun
34247 SxS hammerless box lock, 12 ga, Damascus barrels, case
35493 SxS hammer gun box lock 16 ga

------SN absent or unclear -----
?1859 SxS hammer gun active side lock - mixed numbers sleeved.
n/a Percussion Single barrel 6 bore
n/a Percussion Rifle. 50 cal
n/a Single shot tip up pistol
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/15/17 05:08 PM

==================================================================================================
1820's - c1837 +. - Reilly and serial numbered pistols


I guess I'm testing you all...writing a book on line. But here are some early Reilly pistols which are relevant (Terry Buffum see below re 1060):

I mentioned above that by about 1840, Reilly pistols no longer were numbered in the Reilly long-gun chronology…this divorce might have occurred even earlier. (you can see several non-numbered guns from the High Holborn period). i.e if Reilly didn't make it, it wasn't numbered in his series. (Note: The labels in the cases, however are extremely interesting, usually have been more protected than long-gun cases. The dates of manufacture of the Reilly retailed pistols/revolvers can date the labels which in turn can help confirm dates of long guns.)

But it looks like that at least very early on the pistols were numbered chronologically and are part of Reilly history. Here are several Reilly pistols that look to be in the logical early chronology. They are mixed in with a few long gun serial numbers which give them credibility

176 (Pistol) (if the SN is right, this is one of the very earliest Reillys)_
Name: J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS, LONDON
Description: Serial #176, .50 caliber, 8 3/4" smooth bore octagon barrels with lightly oxidized bores. The tops of the barrels are each marked "J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS, LONDON" and each lock is engraved "J.C. REILLY". The locks and hammers show lovely flowing foliate scroll with panoplies of arms engraved on the hammers. The bolsters are equipped with platinum blow out plugs. The barrels feature double silver bands at breeches with nicely engraved tangs. The triggerguards are also engraved with stylized pineapple shaped finials and panoplies of arms on bow of triggerguard.
Comment: Do not know if Reilly hand-guns used his sequential Serial Numbering, These pistols though, along with the one below may have. Note rounded butts.-
Terry Boffum owned these guns and can clarify a lot.
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/108/283.html



xxxx (Pistol) (pre-1835 - Holborn Bars; but no Reilly SN)
Name: J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, LONDON
Description: British Mid 19th Century Pocket Pistol, comprising: Small [Overall Length 14cm] Muzzle Loading Percussion Pocket Pistol, Proof Marks to Underside of 5.5cm Barrel. Complete with Foliate Decoration, Bag Shaped Walnut Grip & Folding Trigger.
Comment: Holborn Bar indicates this pistol if pre 1835 before the move to High Holborn.
http://www.vectis.co.uk/Page/ViewLot.aspx?LotId=598875&Section=0&Start=320



1024 - (Pistol) - If this is a Reilly SN, it is post 1835 - pre 1840?
Address: Reilly 316 Holborn London
Description: erkussions-Terzerolpistole um 1840 Joseph Charles Reilly London
achtkantiger, glatter Lauf, im Kaliber 8,5 mm, mit leichter Gravur an Laufmündung, sowie Signatur auf der Oberseite "Reilly 316 Holborn London". Mit Rankendekor graviertes Perkussionsschloss, Abzug klappt bei Spannung des Hahnes aus.
Comment: Pistol….interesting serial number. rounded butt
http://online.auktion-zwack.de/de/perkus...mp;currentpos=9



1060 (not a Reilly SN per below)
Percussion pocket pistol.
Terry, history needs some photos. Thanks.
edit: Terry tells me it was a pocket percussion revolver - A check on the aution show it is labeled "E.M. Reilly" placing it in late 1850's..(it looks earlier, wonder if it was just "Reilly" on the rib?). This is the problem with trying to use SN's for dating pistols marketed by Reilly. He didn't put his numbers on any gun he didn't make.



1292 (Pistol) - If this is a Reilly SN, the gun should be 1835-1840. High Holborn
Address: Reilly, London
Description: Miniature 120-Bore Box-Lock Percussion Pocket Pistol By Reilly of London, Circa 1850. With round turn-off barrel engraved with a band of foliage at the breech.
Comment: Percussion miniature pistol, typical of early Reilly’s; believe he manufactured this. Note the rounded butt…seems to be a marker.
https://www.garthvincent.com/a-miniature-120-bore-box-lock-percussion-pocket-pistol-by-reilly-of-london%2C-circa-1850.-1597/



xxxx. (no SN - High Holborn - 1835-47; no SN)
English folding trigger percussion single shot pistol with barrel marked “Reilly 316 Holborn London”, .54 cal., 3-1/2” octagon barrel with swivel ramrod and belt hook, checkered wood grips, engraved frame.
http://www.icollector.com/English-foldin...Londo_i12499548



xxxx (possibly High Holborn - 1835-47; no SN on a pair of high-end lady's guns)
Engraved and Silver-Inlaid Small English Boxlock Percussion Muff Pistols by Reilly, c. 1840frames marked: Reilly/London.
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20britannique/artisan%20p%20q%20r/a%20reilly%20gb.htm




xxxx (Pistol). Between 1835 and 1840? - no SN
Name: JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON
Description: .50 caliber pistol with a 10-inch octagonal barrel measures 15-inches in overall length. Wood ramrod with flared brass cap, brass section at rear unscrews exposing the worm. Top of barrel marked "JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON." London proof marks. Platinum blowout plug on nipple drum. One barrel key with oval silver escutcheons. The brown Damascus finish slightly worn. Nicely grained walnut half-stock with bag grip and black horn forend cap; oval silver thumbpiece. Sunburst engraved around center screw. Iron trigger guard and ferrules; stylized pineapple finial with tassel, center portion engraved in shell pattern.

Note the similarity to 176 above...platinum blowout plugs, beautiful Damascus barrels, etc....It could be a twin. It was only 12 years difference from 176 might have been made say around 1828? to this gun - made circa 1840? maybe...but the formula still worked. (but check out the snazzy wood ramrod)(a replacement?)

http://www.aaawt.com/html/firearms/f296.html

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/17/17 04:07 PM

==================================================================================================
25711. (1883)




Excuse me? $27,500-42,500? are those US dollars?

MASSIVE 8 BORE E. M. REILLY DOUBLE RIFLE WITH CASE AND AMMUNITION, SUBJECT OF DOUBLE GUN JOURNAL ARTICLE.
SN 25711. Cal. 8 Bore. (.850 Groove diameter, 11 grooves). 3-1/4″ Chambers. 28″ Fine Damascus bbls are fitted with broad file cut matted rib (with dolls head extension), holding one standing, three folding leaf express rear, and small silver bead front, sights. Tops of bbls are engraved “E. M. Reilly & Co” and “502 New Oxford St. London”. Bbl flats are stamped with London black powder proofs for 9 bore, and with SN. A large sling eye is soldered to bottom rib. Robust round bodied underlever action is fitted with peninsula back locks having large rebounding round bodied serpentine hammers, and front sliding safety bolts which engage at half cock. Rifle was originally of very plain finish with only border engraving and a few sprays of scroll around pin holes on locks. Rifle has had extensive gold damascened embellishment consisting of 3/4″ floral and foliate bands at muzzles with 1/8″ bands around breeches, as well as line and beaded borders on action and locks which also have some extra areas embellished with scroll. Top of right bbl was also damascened “H. H. Maharana Shree Warhatsingji Loonawara”
https://jamesdjulia.com/item/1382-396/

Posted by: Terry Buffum

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/17/17 08:41 PM

Earlier I mentioned a percussion rifle (single barrel) I still have with a skull and cross bones and "Veni, Vedi, Vici" engraved. It seems to have gotten smaller while hiding in my safe!

Bore is just over .700, so perhaps 13 bore. Two groove, so made for those "waisted bullets". A ball with a "belly band" and a short pointed bullet with two rectangular "bumps" are in the patch box which is engraved with what I think is a red deer. Fixed leaf marked 100. Flip up rear sight leaves for 150, 200, 250 and 300.

Lock marked "Reilly", barrel marked "Reilly,New Oxford Street, London", serial number is 8025.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/18/17 01:47 PM

==================================================================================================
1847 - JC Reilly and the "7000" series


Terry, 8025 is the earliest "Reilly" (not JC Reilly) found after their move to New Oxford street and calls into question my theory that EM started renumbering 8400...unless this is a JC Reilly in plain "Reilly" livery. Amazing. What is your opinion? When did waisted bullets come out? Might this be a J.C. Reilly? (I'm starting to lean towards this - He seemed to have concentrated on percussion guns after he got to New Oxford Street.). Would love to see pictures.

edit: Preliminary research shows that one of the first experimental 2 groove rifles was used in Ceylon in 1845. This would seem to put Reilly's adoption of the system after 1847 move to New Oxford street possibly indicating 8025 is a J.C. Reilly in the "7900 series".

https://www.classicshooting.com/blogs/re...the-paradox-gun

Excerpt: "The earliest in the field of progress was the old-established firm of Purdey and Co. Mr. Purdey, before the general introduction of breechloaders, brought out an Express rifle, No. 70 bore, with a mechanically fitting two-groove solid bullet. This small projectile was a well-pointed cone weighing exactly 200 grains, with a powder charge of 110 grains, more than half the weight of the bullet. The extremely high velocity of this rifle expanded the pure soft lead upon impact with the skin and muscles of a red deer. At the same time there was no loss of substance in the metal, as the bullet, although much disfigured, remained intact, and continued its course of penetration, causing great havoc by its increased surface. Nothing has surpassed this rifle in velocity, although so many improvements have taken place since the introduction of breechloaders, but in the days of muzzle-loaders it was a satisfaction to myself that I was the first to commence the heavy charge of powder with the 3 ounce bullet and 16 drams, to be followed after many years by so high an authority as Mr. Purdey with a 200 grain bullet and 110 grains of powder, thus verifying the principle of my earliest experience."

edit 2: Terry Buffum said that 8025 has the feel of an EM Reilly. He said JC's stocks tended to be straight grained and somewhat dull. EM used more interesting maple (and a lot of French maple later on). I still am not yet ready to abandon the 8400 mark for EM on the move to New Oxford Street. It's possible that EM stocked 8025 while JC made it.

Still, I feel a little like I'm trying to squeeze facts into a pre-constructed theory based on 8463 and that "Removed from Holborn" label. We'll continue to gather data. and I have a feeling a lot of it is still in Terry Buffum's safes.

Any info turn up on the other two of your guns of historical interest Terry, 1869 and 3402? Address on ribs? Pictures?
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/19/17 05:45 PM

I'm bothering the cognoscenti again. I thought at some point to turn the above research into something more concrete. It was recommended by a couple of the DBS usuals that I wrap it up and write an article for "Double Gun Journal." Two questions:

1). The following article appeared in Summer 2015 edition of DBJ. "E. M. Reilly: Purdey’s Pretentious Rival" by John Campbell II

I cannot read it. There has been a lot of misinformation on Reilly put out in the past. Some corrected in this line. I fear this article might have propagated some of it ...or it might be excellent. Can someone please forward this article to me for review?

2). How would I go about contacting DBJ with an outline of a piece on Reilly history to see if they'd be interested? The web site doesn't give a clue. Many thanks, Gene.

Posted by: KDGJ

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/20/17 01:03 PM

Argo,

You should contact Daniel Côte (DGJ publisher, editor, artist, etc.). The article inluding pictures is 12 pages. The contact number is 231-536-7439.

Ken
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/21/17 05:32 PM

I ordered DBJ summer 2015 edition to get access to John's 12 page article. Authors and writers deserve to be paid for their work.

Afterwards a friend forwarded an advanced copy of that DBJ report, The first three paragraphs are riddled with errors. There are some neat interviews and historical photos there. But....

I don't want to start an internet fight but DBS readers - rest assured on this line you have the best historical record of Reilly anywhere,

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22220&page=2
Posted by: Stan

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/21/17 06:04 PM

Speaking of errors .................DBJ? Don't you mean DGJ?

SRH
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/21/17 06:16 PM

touché mon ami. Tu as raison!

But really I went into reading this DGJ article with hope and came out with a feeling that the most historically important part of it was just baloney. There are some good things in John's article. I never found photos of the family,.etc. But how can you construct a history of gun building based on such erroneous information? Look..let's have an adult conversation about this (ok ok impossible on the internet).
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/01/18 02:43 PM

Edit: This post is now somewhat outdated - see p. 20

The Reilly SN’s have been arranged below in an easier order to help people date their guns. There are minimal descriptions of the guns below and these concentrate on history. There are more complete descriptions in the postings above and for the links which have gone dark, I have most of the original ads and photos. Also, there are about 30 Reilly’s which have been posted on the internet without the SN’s. For the most part I’ve left these out. All have Damascus barrels unless otherwise specified. Most important “marker" dates and SN’s are in Red. The year dates are obviously estimates but they will get a user close..perhaps within a year of when his gun was numbered. (Please remember that these are estimates based on data at hand....about 200 serial numbered Reilly's have been found out of some 31,000 built over 90 years - with about another 30 guns known but with SN's not published...a decent sample. As more guns appear, some of this might change).

1820’s - August 1935. 0 - 1000? JC Reilly was a Silverplate worker at 12 Middle Row, Holborn aka Holborn Bars which he opened in 1816. He was identified as a “gun maker” in 1829 in an ad. He left Holborn Bars in August 1835. Very few examples of his work from his time at Holborn Bars are extant.

….162 - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. 14 bore. Shotgun; percussion, single-barreled muzzle-loader
….176 - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. ,50cal. Pistols; Pair of percussion dueling pistols (Buffum)
...254 - J.C. Reilly? (no address mentioned). Percussion pistol per Terry Weiland article.
..xxxx - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. 14bore. Sporting gun. Single barrel, muzzle loader. "highly figured stock" (Picture)
..xxxx - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. .45 Cal. Pistol, 14cm long muzzle loading, steel barrel, percussion pocket

August 1835 - March 1847. 1000 - 3500? In August 1835 he moved to 316 High Holborn. By 1840 his 24 year old son EM was a gunmaker and shortly around that time became partner (actual date not known). About 2500? guns numbered over 17 years - 145/year, 12/month? note: By about 1840, possibly earlier - certainly by SN 1800, Reilly no longer numbered pistols in his long-gun chronology. He did not number guns he did not build. . Note: A number of internet sources claim 316 High Holborn was the former shop of Joseph Manton. Nowhere can this be verified - another internet "urban legend."

..xxxx - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 50cal. Pistol; Percussion single-steel barrel muzzle loader
..1024 - Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 8.5mm. Pistol; Percussion hammer gun, steel barrel, pocket pistol
..1174 - J.C. Reilly (no address). 8 bore. Fowling piece; Percussion single shot, single barrel, muzzle loader.
..1272 - Reilly, London, 120 bore, Pistol; steel barrel, percussion miniature pocket pistol.
..1869 - (unknown) 10 ga. Shotgun; SxS; Percussion, hammer gun, muzzle loader (Buffum)
..xxxx - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 10 bore. Shotgun; SxS; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader "highly figured stock" (pic available)
..xxxx - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 10 bore? Shotgun; SxS; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader.
..3329 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London, 10 ga/.58 cal. Shotgun; SxS; Percussion hammer gun. Muzzle loader
..3392 -Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holburn, London. 10 ga/.58 cal; Shotgun; SxS; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader.
..3402 - (no name mentioned); .577 cal, Rifle SxS; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle Loader (Buffum).

Mar 1847 - Mid 1850’s: In March 1847 Reilly’s moved to 502 New Oxford Street. There seem to be two branches of SN’s after this move. One perhaps reserved for JC 7000-8400. The other mainstream SN chronology perhaps supervised by EM started in 1847 at 8400. (both are suppositions) But take a close look - there is 3514 from the "old" original chronology with the Oxford address; there is 7021 with the Holborn address. And there is 7201 with the Oxford address and "removed from Holborn" - i.e. 1847.

Mar 1847 - 1858/9? : 7000-8200?? "JC Reilly reserved series"? In 1858 JC would have been 72 years old, In 1859 "EM" appeared on gun ribs and advertisements perhaps marking JC's total retirement. (The fact that "Edward M. Reilly - Gunmaker" exhibited in 1851 at Crystal Palace, not "Reilly," perhaps reinforces this idea of a split in Serial Numbers as EM, the new wave, enamored with breech-loaders gradually took over). Terry Buffum believes JC Reilly stocks were more straight lined-less figured than EM's - EM's use of highly figured French walnut was a trademark of sorts commented on by others. The few surviving photos of JC stocks, though, do show some figured wood.

..7023 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 11bore. Shotgun SxS. Muzzle Loading hammer gun. (Note 7000 series but with Holborn still on the rib)
..3514 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 13bore. Shotgun SxS. Muzzle loader, hammer gun (1855-59 case label)
..7201 - Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal; Rifle, Single barrel, percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader. "Removed from Holborn"
..7801 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 28 bore; Walking cane gun.
..7869 - J.C. Reilly, New Oxford St. London; 12 ga; Shotgun; SxS percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader (Buffum).
..8025 - Reilly, New Oxford St. London; 13 bore; Rifle; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader (Buffum). (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici)
..8052 - Reilly, New Oxford St., London. 20 bore. Rifle. Percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader. (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici)

Post Mar 1847-1859 8400-10900?- This appears to be the main-line Reilly SN sequence, probably run by EM though JC appears from time to time. “Reilly” is the name on the ribs. The stocks became flamboyant. Two guns below have “Removed from Holborn” (Moved from Holbon) indicating an early 502 Oxford Street provenance (within months of the move?). - in his newspaper announcement of his move in March 1847 he used the words "will be removing" and in a follow-on ad after the move to Oxford street in Fall 1847 he used the words "Removed from Holborn"....

As for numbers, from 8400 in Mar 1847 to 10782 in 1858-9, it looks like Reilly's numbered some 2500 guns more or less in a little less than 12 years + the 1,000 odd produced by JC Reilly per above. About 240 numbered guns a year in the main SN line. 20/month. (numbers are adjusted hypothetically below to allow for an increase in production numbers over time)

1847: 8400-8580?

..8463 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London (“label-J.C. Reilly, removed from Holborn"); .390 cal. Rifle; Enfield percussion, double express, muzzle loader
..84xx - Reilly. 502 Oxford Street, London; 6 Bore; Shotgun, single barrel, percussion, hammer gun, muzzle loader.
..8578 - J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London (“removed from Holborn”); 10 bore; Shotgun SxS; hammergun, muzzle loader

1848: 8580-8760: . EM Reilly published his famous Treatise on air guns; author was identified as "Reilly, Junr - gun maker; No. 502 New Oxford Street;Removed from 316, Holborn." Edit: Internet has EM publishing this in 1850...the "removed from holborn" is key - It means it probably was published in 1847 - I'll leave 1848 as a compromise)

1849: 8760-9040:
1850: 9020-9200
1851: 9200-9400 Crystal Palace London exhibited as "Edward M. Reilly"; air-guns, etc; influenced by Lefaucheaux center break guns at the exhibition..
1852: 9400-9600;
1853: 9600-9800; .577 muzzle loading Enfield adopted by British Army; Lang produces first Brit Center-break gun designed by Hodges, copy of Lefraucheaux.
1854: 9800-10040
1855: 10040-10280; 1855 Paris Exposition Universelle. Exhibited as "E.M Reilly, 502 New Oxford St, London - Guns, rifles, etc." received much acclaim. London 1851 and Paris 1855 medals appear on his labels
1856: 10280-10520

10315 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 6bore. Shotgun; Single barrel percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader.
10354 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; .400 cal. Rifle; SxS double breech loader. (Extensive conversion 1885; 1st surviving center break gun if SN is accurate.)

1857: 10520-10760

10619 - Reilly (no details); .380 cal; Rifle, Single barrel, percussion, hammer gun, muzzle loader, “Park Rifle”
10621 - Reilly, London; .376 cal. Rifle; Single barrel, percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader.
10670 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; ?? Cal. Rifle; SxS; Percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader.

1858: 10760-11000

10782 - Reilly, New Oxford St. London. .577 cal; Rifle; single barrel breech loader, Frederic Prince patent (1855 patent).

1858/9 - 1862: 10970 - 13300 EM began to use his initials in advertisements and on gun ribs 1859. He also opened 315 New Oxford Street aka 315 Oxford Street, London (1859 advertisement containing by "EM" and "315") (see Reilly SN 12079). From 1858/9 to 1862 (See 13333, Green brothers marker below) he numbered 2,200 guns. 500/year. 40 a month. Even though he was noted as a breech loader innovator, most of the surviving guns are Muzzle loaders. The gun community was notoriously traditionalist.

(Note: "Edward M. Reilly" per internet was the name of the firm for awhile. Well this name appeared on some gun ribs in the 1850's, none serial numbered.
.....-- various percussion and multi-barrel pistols labeled "Edward M. Reilly 502 New Oxford Street,"
.....-- British Pattern 1858 .577 Enfield percussion short rifle muzzle loader.
-- He also exhibited at the 1851 Crystal Palace fair in London as "Edward M. Reilly, New Oxford St., London - Gunmaker, assortment of double guns, rifles, air-canes, pistols," etc.
-- However, I can find no ads, or mainline Serial Numbered guns with "Edward M. Reilly" on the ribs. And he exhibited at the 1855 Exposition Universelle in Paris as "E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford St., London..." Thus, unless someone turns up more evidence,
it looks like "Edward M." or "Edward Michael" was used only informally and that the story of there being an "Edward M. Reilly" company is just more Reilly urban legend. What is clear is that in
-- 1858 an ad identified the firm as "Reilly, 502 New Oxford St., and an
-- 1859 advertisement that identified the firm as "E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford with a branch establishment at 315.."


109xx? - E.M. Reilly & Co., London; 16 bore; Shotgun SxS; underlever centerbreak breech loader. (1st gun with "EM" on the rib)
11115 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12ga shotgun SxS, early Jones underlever center break hammergun.
11227 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford St., London; .577 cal. Rifle; Enfield, percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader
11645 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 100 bore; Rifle. Prince patent, single barrel, breech loader,
11651 - E.M. Reilly, Oxford St., London. .577 cal; Enfield type, percussion muzzle loader converted to Snider breech loader.
11xxx - E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street London (Reilly on case); 11mm. 4 smooth barrel, percussion, muzzle loader
12069 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 & 502 Oxford Street, London; .451 cal. Rifle; Percussion, muzzle loader. (1st "315" on a gun rib)
12532 - E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Gilded hammer gun, muzzle loader.
13033 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 20 bore; Shotgun SxS; Jones underlever, Percussion hammer gun (Buffum)
13194 - E.M. Reilly, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. back action hammer gun (parts only)(Back action must be a later addition)

1862 - Feb 1868: 13300 - 15250 London exhibition. From SN 13333 firmly identified as 1862 to 15270 firmly identified as Feb 1868, he numbered almost 2,000 guns. About 340/year. 27/month.

13333 - E.M. Reilly & Co. 502 New Oxford St., London; .577 cal. Rifle; percussion breech loader, Gun 23 of Green Bros 1862 patent - firm date.
13590 - E.M Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London. 10 bore; Rifle SxS; Percussion hammer gun muzzle loader.
13599 - E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore; Rifle SxS; 2 groove Percussion double express Hammer gun, muzzle loader.
13688 - E.M Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 20 bore; Shotgun SxS. underlever hammer gun.
14115 - E.M. Reilly (nothing further - no photos, etc). Shotgun SxS; Center break, Jones under leaver, hammer gun.
14580 - E.M. Reilly & Co. London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS; Percussion hammergun, Muzzle loader.

1866:: 14540?-14900? 1866 British army formally adopted the .577 Snider Enfield as a stop-gap breech loading rifle. Reilly built Sniders and converted some Muzzle-loading Enfields to the Snider action. Any Reilly Snider should be 1866 or later. However, unless he built them to measure, he did not seem to number them.

1867: 14900?-15240? Huge Reilly success at Paris exhibition that summer; Gold medals appear on labels;

14985 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 16 ga. Shotgun SxS; Sidelock, underlever hammer gun, (Buffum).
15129 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 Oxford St. London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS; pinfire, hammer gun, muzzle loader.
15143 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 Oxford St. London, 12ga. Shotgun SxS; underlever, hammergun.
15239 - E.M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford St., London. .577. Rifle, Snider-Enfield 2-band; Birmingham proof.

Feb 1868 - Aug 1886: 15270-27340? In Feb 1868 he opened Rue Scribe, Paris. Many of his guns subsequently had the Paris address. 15270 is the first gun with Rue Scribe. He closed it in Late 1886. 27340 is the last gun with Rue Scribe. Note: Internet "urban legend" has him closing Rue Scribe in 1872 including one author of an article in DGJ. A glance at ads and gun ribs below show this is just poor scholarship. 18.5 years. 222 mos. 12,100 guns. = about 55/mo. 660/yr. (this is a guess estimate but a good one).

There are some guns early on in the 1868-86 series that perhaps should be later in the date series - I'm thinking of the 1871 Martini Henry which seems a bit early for him to have produced and the 1873 gun that has a Needham’s Patent 18547 (which may or may not be C1874). This would indicate a production of fewer guns early on and more later.

This is a long stretch of time; The only way to narrow down the year dates is to check patents on the guns. If people look inside their Reilly's which have SN's during this period, would appreciate info on these patents - use of which (not non-use) could alter the above chronology - And I'm already thinking of altering the chronology a bit to allow for fewer guns produced early in the period and more at the end):
1872 - Patent: Anson's fore-end fastener patent no. 3791
1874 - Patent: Needham patented a hammerless, barrel-cocking gun which was also the first ejector in 1874.
1875 - Patent: W.M. Scott's patent 3223
1875 - Patent: Anson & Deely patent; the first hammerless gun with top lever.
1878 - Patent: Mills 3rd bite patent no 4980
1878 - Patent: Patent Number 761 was recorded by William Middleditch Scott and Thomas Baker


Feb 1868-Jan 1869: 15250-15800 - Also in 1868 Reilly entered into a partnership with the Belgian firm Comblain to market their breach loader in the British Army competition. There are at least 8 Reilly Comblain's around...They were adopted by Brazil Army...But I can find no Reilly serial numbers.

15270 - E.M. Reilly and Company Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris. .577. Rifle SxS; Underlever. BPE. Non-rebounding hammers.
15262 - E. M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street. London. 12ga. Rifle SxS. Black Powder proof for 13 bore.
15283 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS; Jones under lever. Buffum.
15287 - E.M. Reilly & Co. Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS'. Under lever, hammer gun. Buffum
15346 - E.M. Reilly (no further info). 12ga. Shotgun SxS; Under lever, hammer gun.
15531 - “Reilly & Co. (no address mentioned). .50cal. Rifle Single barrel. Enfield type. Hammer gun. Muzzle loader. Buffum .
15625 - E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London, 2 Rue Scribe Paris. 4bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever. Orig pinfire conv-to centerfire.

1869: 15800-16460. The internet reports that about this time E M Reilly was appointed gun maker to Napoleon III. Nowhere can I confirm this. Of Course the emperor lasted only another two years.

15857 - E.M. Reilly, 502 Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Centerbreak, underlever. Non-rebound hammers.
15961 - E.M. Reilly (no further descriptions). 12bore. Rifle SxS; Centerbreak, Underlever Hammergun.
16139 - E. M. Reilly & Co. London and Paris. 12 bore. rifle. UL, hammers, rebounding bar-locks. Gold washed presentation-1994 DGJ article
16341 - E.M. Reilly (No further descriptions). .577cal. Rifle, Snider SxS. Jones underlever; hammer gun(Weiland). First rebounding hammers (1867 patent)

1870: 16460-17120

16533 - Reilly London (address/name not stated); 16 ga. side lever, hammer gun; steel re-barrells.
16583 - E.M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford Street London. 8mm. Shotgun SxS. Smoothbore. Underlever Hammer gun.
16585 - E.M. Reilly & Co, Oxford Street, London and Rue Scribe Paris. 10ga. Rifle SxS. Underlever, Hammergun.
16607 - E.M. Reilly (no address/no photo). .577. Rifle; Single barrel. Snider Enfleld. Muzzle loader.
16765 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & 2 Rue Scribe, Paris. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Rebounding Hammergun, Extractor.
16768 - E.M. Reilly (no address given). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Underlever hammergun.
16808 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12ga, Shotgun SxS. Hammergun.
16810 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever pinfire, hammergun.
16961 - E.M. Reilly (no further descriptions). 12bore. Rifle SxS. Underlever, pinfire, hammergun.
16987 - EM Reilly & Co., 502 Oxford St., London. Rifle SxS. Hammer gun, muzzle loader.

1871: 17120-17780 In Apr 1871 British adopted the Martini-Henry and began trials throughout the empire; it was formally distributed to all regiments in 1874. Any Reilly Martini should post-date Apr 1871. He built Martini's but rarely numbered them - the below mentioned 17314 being the only example I can find.

17204 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & 2 Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore.[/color] Underlever, pinfire, no-rebound hammergun.
17314 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577/.450. Rifle single barrel. First Reilly Martini
17392 - E.M. Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. 16ga. Centerbreak, side lever hammer gun (Buffum).
17393 - E.M. Reilly, New Oxford Street, London and 2 Rue Scribe, Paris; 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Push-forwrd Underlever hammergun.
17476 - E.M. Reilly, New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever, push opener, Hammer gun (Buffum)
17495 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned); 12 bore Shotgun SxS. Underlever hammer gun. (Tomato Stake)
17591 - E.M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 8bore. Shotgun SxS. Jones underlever, hammer gun. Buffum
17612 - E.M Reilly & Co. Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Underlever, hammer gun.

1872: 17780-18440
1873: 18440-19100

18514 - E.M Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned); 8bore. Single barrel rifle; Snider Patent and Newmark's Patent
18536 - Illegible name. 20bore. Shotgun SxS. Jones underlever, back action hammergun.
18547 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 15bore. Shotgun SxS; Pinfire, U-L. Needham’s Patent 18547 C1874?-upgrade addition?
18550 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. .577BPE. Rifle SxS; (Buffum).
18595 - E.M. Reilly, London. .450BPE. Rifle SxS. BPE; Underlever hammer gun.
18763 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 10 bore. Shotgun SxS. rebounding bar locks, underlever.
18766 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 500BPE. Rifle SxS; Underlever, rebounding hammer gun.
18860 - E.M. Reilly & Co Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe. Paris. 4bore Shotgun SxS. underlever, non-rebounding hammergun.
18954 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 500BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever, rebounding hammer gun.

1874: 19100-19760
1875: 19760-20420

19827 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Side lever hammer gun. (Buffum).
19953 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 500BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L Hammer gun, Steel barrels. Round back-acton lock.
20125 - Name on barrel not published. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. French site-no other info.
20265 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577/500 Rifle SxS. underlever hammer gun.
20396 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford St., London. 20ga. Shotgun SxS. Side lever, hammer gun.

1876: 20420-21080. Reilly ads mention King of Portugal.

20467 - E.M. Reilly & Co, Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris. 12ga. Side lever hammer gun.
20468 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. 10bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever hammer gun; Purdey patent
20808 - E.M. Reilly &Co. New Oxford St, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. .500BPE. Rifle SxS. Under lever, rebounding hammer gun.
20827 - E.M. Reilly&Co ???. 10bore. Shotgun SxS. Jones underlever; rebounding sidelock hammergun.

1877: 21080-21740

21098 - E.M. Reilly & Co (no other info). 10bore. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock, bar action hammer gun, Jones under lever.
21099 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock hammer gun.
21304 - E.M. Reilly & Co (address not mentioned). .450/.500 BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever hammer gun.
21339 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12bore. Shotgun SxS (2nd of a pair). Underlever. Rebounding hammer gun.
21361 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. .450BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever, Hammer gun.

1878: 21740-22400 Exhibited at Paris Exhibition 1878

21440 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford Street, London; 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. underlever, percussion back-action locks.
21761 - E.M. Reilly & Co, New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 500BPE. Undersnaplever, Hammergun. (Buffum)
21883 - E.M. Reilly & Co (side plates); 20ga. Shotgun SxS. Underlever, rebounding hammer gun. (Buffum)
22038 - (no name in ad). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Underlever, hammergun.
22068 - E.M. Reilly & Co New Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe a Paris. 8calBPE. Rifle SxS. Back side lock hammergun.
22077 - (no name in ad). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Hammerless, underlever. Whitworth patent.
22093 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (no address mentioned). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel barrels, Underlever. Hammer gun (Buffum).
22210 - E.M. Reilly (address not legible). 12ga? Shotgun SxS. Sidelever, hammergun. No ejector. Bar action locks.

1879: 22400-23060

22423 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford St. London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12ga. Underlever, Hammer gun, Anson release.

1880: 23060-23720 As a point of comparison, Reilly at this time was numbering about 660 guns a year; In 1880 Holland & Holland numbered 200 (89 hammerless, 111 hammer guns) and Purdy 238 (33 hammerless, 203 hammer guns).

23172 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford St., London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever. Hammer gun. Anson 6912 patent. (1st top lever found)
23355 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore. Top lever, pigeon, hammer gun.
23362 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned); 16bore. Shotgun SxS; bar in wood top-lever hammergun. (2nd top lever noted).
23515 - E.M. Reilly & Co, (no address); 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever back action hammer gun.(claims "Edward M" made it but no photos of rib so no confirmation).
23574 - No mention of name. 12bore; Shotgun SxS; Side lever, Pigeon gun, third bite, Hammer gun.

1881: 23720-24380 Late in 1881 Oxford street was re-numbered - 315 becoming 277 and 502 becoming 16. Reilly used both numbers along with Rue Scribe in advertisements in 1882. Theoretically guns after 1881 ought to have 16 Oxford or 277 Oxford along with the Rue Scribe Paris address. However, some guns apparently continued to be labeled with the 502 and 315 Oxford Street numbers.

23746 - E.M. Reilly (no address/photo). 36ga. Rifle SxS. BPE top lever, back action, hammer gun. Gabriel restoration project.
xxxxx - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris. .500BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever, non rebounding hammers.
xxxxx - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London & 2 Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore/.577. Cape gun SxS.
xxxxx - E.M. Reilly & Co. 16 New Oxford Street London & 2 Rue Scribe, Paris. 8bore. Rifle SxS. Hammer gun muzzle loader.
23816 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London. .22LR (relined). Rook rifle ([Buffum).
23843 - E.M. Riley & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammer gun.
24354 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel barrels, hammer gun. (Buffum)

1882: 24380-25040. About this time Reilly advertisements began to carry the following phrase: "By special appointment to HM the King of Spain and HM the King of Portugal; and by special patent to HM the King of Netherlands"

24398 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (no address on rib); .500BPE. Rifle SxS. 28" barrels. Best engraving.
24627 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 500 BPE. Rifle SxS. Top lever hammer gun (Buffum)
24672 - E.M Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 16ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever hammer gun. (Buffum)
24675 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). 12bore. backpack non-ejector. Scott pattern action.
24850 - Rebarrelled. No name. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel Barrels by Norwich. Top lever, side lock. (Buffum)

1883: 25040-25700 Exhibited at Calcutta Exposition - silver medal.

25161 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. .500BPE/12ga. Rifle/Shotgun; side lever, hammer gun. (King of Spain prize - 1880 case; 1883 gun - Strange)
25232 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London. Shotgun SxS. Underlever, back action hammer gun.
25273 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford St., London. .450BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever, hammer gun.
25460 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, New Oxford St., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel barrel. Back action side lock. (Buffum)
25516 - E.M. Reilly & Co (no address). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Box lock, side ejector. .
25572 - E.M. Reilly, 16 New Oxford Street, London and Paris. ,450BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever Hammer gun.

1884: 25700-26360. Exhibited at London 1884, gold and silver medals.

25711 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 New Oxford St. London. 8bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever hammer gun.
26218 - No address mentioned. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. BLNE.

1885: 26360-27020. International Inventions Exhibition, London, 1885 - display lauded.

26517 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (rebarrelled - Chas Smith & Sons) 20bore Shotgun SxS. Under lever Hammer gun. Buffum
26537 - No address mentioned. 20ga. Shotgun SxS. Underlever hammer gun (Buffum)
26584 - E.M. Reilly, New Oxford Street and Rue Scribe Paris. Unknown cal. Case label with SN and 1886 date.
26718 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .380 cal. Rifle Black Powder.
26733 - E.M. Reilly (no full address mentioned). 8 bore. Rifle SxS. Crystal indicator, rifled barrel. hammerless.
26957 - E. M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford St., London. 8 bore. Rifle Single. Underlever, hammer gun.

1886: 26800?-27340? In late 1886 Reilly closed 2 Rue Scribe in Paris.

27340 is the last gun with Rue Scribe on its rib(and I have not seen the photos to verify this). Yet there are “Paris” addresses on a couple of follow-on guns. Reilly may have kept a hotel address in Paris for a year after closing his Rue Scribe store, possibly to handle previous orders. It was allegedly at 29 Rue Fauburg, St. Honore (a hotel). I’m wondering if this is the “Paris” referred to on the ribs of 27570 and 27854 below? (But frankly to be honest the "legend" that he had a shop or an address at 29 rue Fauburg, St. Honore has been repeated ad nauseam on the internet; no where can I verify this - this was a hotel at the time - there are no ads with this address that I can find and no Fauburg address on any gun).

The next “marker” is 34723 the last gun with 16 New Oxford Street on its rib when the store closed in 1898. 7383 guns were numbered after Rue Scribe closed, 12 years, 144 months. The below estimates were as if production proceeded at a steady rate of about 600 numbered guns a year, 50 a month. (and Sales obviously were declining as the 1890’s advanced and after EM’s death in 1890). We’ve noted that Reilly was putting barrels on his guns during this time which had been proofed up to 8 years before the gun was serial numbered, and that there seemed to be a large number of “pairs."

1886: 27020-27680 (Assuming he would have closed the shop near the end of the hunting season, Fall 1996.)

27340? - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Hammer gun. Last SN w/rue Scribe
27377 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 277 Oxford Street, London. 12ga, Shotgun SxS. 3 barrel set, one steel. Crystal indicator (Buffum).
27515 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). Rook Rifle converted to .410.
27570 - E.M. Reilly, Oxford Street, London & Paris. 16ga. Shotgun SxS. BLNE (Buffum).

1887: 27680-28300. There is one gun 27954 which appears to have an unclear Paris address. It may be St. Honore or just plain Paris…like 27570 above.

27687 - E.M. Reilly & Co.(address not mentioned). 20bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever hammergun. (rifle conversion).
27750 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London. Xxxx. SxS. Whitworth steel barrels.
27847 - Name Not mentioned. .450BPE. Rifle SxS. Under lever, ejectors, rebounding hammer gun.
27854 - E.M. Reilly & Co+ (London address and a Paris address)(unclear). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Side lever, hammer gun.(Buffum)
2804x? - Name Not mentioned. .410. Rifle/shotgun single. Converted from rifle. Steel barrel. Top lever hammer gun.

1888: 28300-28900

285xx - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London. 12ga, Shotgun SxS. Top lever ejector. Anson & Deeley patent 6265 (1887?)
286xx - E.M. Reilly & Co., address not posted. 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. top lever, steel 29" barrels. Dutch site.
28861 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London; 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever rebounding hammer gun.

1889: 28900-29500
1890: 29500-30100. EM Reilly dies. His sons were 19 and 16.

29527 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 10bore. Shotgun SxS. Black Powder, underlever, hammer gun.

1891: 30100-30700

30166 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever..
30207 - E.M. Reilly & Co. 277 Oxford Street, London. 10ga. Shotgun SxS.
30245 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London. 8boreBPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever hammergun.
30247 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street., London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. Buffum.
30257 - E.M. Reilly & Co., no address. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
30260 - E.M. Reilly & Co. 16 New Oxford Street, London. 12bore. Steel barrels boxlock.
303xx - E.M. Reilly, 277 Oxford St., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel barrels. Sidelever, hammergun. Not for Ball. (Lubzinski).
30342 - No address. 12ba. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock hammerless live pigeon gun. (Buffum).
30363 - E.M. Reilly, London. 12 ga. shotgun SxS. top lever, Anson Deely patent. #1 of a pair.
30436 - name/addressNot mentioned. .380. Rifle single barrel. Hammergun Park rifle. Box lock ejector.
30456 - Address/name no mentioned. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever Box lock. (Terry Weiland)
30680 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore Shotgun SxS. top lever hammer gun.

1892: 30700-31300

30782 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford St, London. Shotgun. double rifled barrels, under-lever, hammer gun
30791 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford St, London. .380BPE. Rifle SxS. Box lock.
30846 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned. 450BPE. Rifle SxS. Steel barrels. (Buffum).

1893: 31300-31900
1894: 31900-32500

32247 - E.M Reilly & CO., 16 New Oxford St., London; 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. (Buffum)

1895: 32500-33100

32530 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .500 BLE Rifle SxS.
32665 - E.M. Reilly (full address not mentioned in either ad). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Box lock.
32667 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. (Buffum).
32971 - E.M. Reilly & Co,, 16 New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
32974 - E.M. Reilly & Co. 16 New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock. Ball and Shot. (Buffum)

1896: 33100-33700

33269 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford St., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
33286 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. 1 of pair
33287 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. 2of pair
33619 - (no name on rib - rebarreled). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel barrel Sidelock, sleeved by Westley Richards 1960.
33623 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS.
33673 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 bore (original Rifle). SxS. top lever hammer gun. steel barrels.

1897: 33700-34300

33858 - E.M. Reilly (full address not mentioned). 12ga. Shotgun SS. Top lever, Side lock Steel Barrels.
33922 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 12ga. Shotgun SxS.
33950 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16, New Oxford St., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock ejector. (Obendorf’s gun0
34164 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Rd., London, 12 ga, SxS shotgun.
34221 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London. 16 bore-.450. Cape gun SxS. (pair) Buffum
34222 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London. 16 bore-.450. Cape gun SxS. (pair) Buffum
34247 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. (Buffum)

1898: 34300-34900. Reilly closed 16 Oxford Street, in 1898 exact month not known but presumably late in the year. 277 Oxford Street remained open.

34330 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .410. Sidelever, hammergun.
34424 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London (address not mentioned); 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. NE
34442 - E. M. Reilly & Co., (Steel re-barrel - no address). 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. restocked. SLE.
34478 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (full address not mentioned). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
34523 - E.M. Reilly (full address not mentioned). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Box lock.
34572 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (full address not mentioned)/ 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock.
34582 - E.M. Reilly (no address mentioned). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel Barrel, Hammer gun.
34723 - E.M Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Hammer gun. Last SN with 16 Oxford St.

1898-1903: 34800? - 35423. 1903 Reilly was located only at 277 New Oxford Street. It appears only maybe some 600 guns were numbered by Reilly over this 5 year period - 120/year - 10 a month.

Internet has him using some gimmicks at this time, such as labeling one gun "Holborn Bars" - the original Reilly shop. Not to denigrate this "legend," but before accepting it, I'd like to see photos of the gun rib.


34865 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 New Oxford St. London. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. BLE.
35079 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. SLE. Toby Barclay -(barrels proofed pre-1896)
35251 - E.M Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. (frame/barrels)
35367 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. Steel Barrels.

1903 - 1911. 35438 - 35650? Reilly closed 277 Oxford street in 1903 (month not known) and moved to 295 Oxford Street where he remained for 8 years.

35423 - E.M. Reilly & Co" , 295 Oxford Street in London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. (Buffum) (1904?) First SN with 295 Oxford.
35458 - E.M. Reilly & Co (address not mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
35472 - E.M. Reilly & Co (sleeved, no address). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
35493 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (rebarreled). 16ga. Shotgun SxS. Barrels by Elderkin & Son. (Buffum)
35551 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 295 Oxford Street, London. .300. Rifle Single barrel. Rook rifle. Sidelever.

1912-1917? 35600 - 35700. E.M Reilly located at 13 High Street, Marylebone. No guns with this address on them have been found.

35678 - E.M. Reilly (no address mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.

Post 1917 130000? - 150000+ (1 added to front of SN's) - Reilly name bought by Charles Riggs who continued to make “E.M. Reilly" guns. It looks like he added a "1" in front of the Reilly series when he took it over, - perhaps starting about (1)37,000? indicating he may have sold up to 15,000 numbered guns. Only a few can be found so far..
..81584 ?? - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 8bore. SxS rifle. 7 groove rifling. non rebound hammer gun, under lever (No photos of SN; odd number)
134183 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16ga. SxS shotgun. BLNE
136535 - E.M. Reilly..not mentioned. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE.
138279 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 20bore Shotgun SxS. BLE
140415 - E.M. Reilly of London. 16bore shotgun SxS. 30" steel barrels
140451 - E.M. Reilly, London. 16bore Shotgun SxS. (Charles Riggs, post 1917)
150570 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock non-ejector.
Posted by: Terry Buffum

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/04/18 06:10 AM

34221 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London. 16 bore. Shotgun SxS. (pair) Buffum
34222 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London. .450. Rifle SxS. (pair) Buffum

My notes were not clear on this pair of guns: they are "cape guns", 16 x .450 #2
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/04/18 12:59 PM

Thanks Terry - fixed.
--If you have any info on 1860, it would be appreciated.
-- Also, 27854 which seemed to have a Paris address. Any clue on that address? Just the name or did it have a street as well? Any hint.

And if you find more Reilly's just sort of lying around....would much appreciate something on them...plus your perhaps posting them here for sale. Thanks.

Edit: He looked and found..at least one..17591.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/17/18 01:35 AM

==================================================================================================
18860



In case anyone is interested, here is only the 2nd Reilly 4bore on the list (George's gun being the only one up to now auctioned last year (added to the list above). Might have been proofed as a 6 bore? 18 lbs? I think George's weighs about 29 lbs? 42" barrels - Stan - why go for one pigeon when you can take the whole flock?

Please Note: Upon closer examination, the hammers are both very slightly out of time, and stalking safety will not engage.

MASSIVE FOUR BORE E. M. REILLY HAMMER WATERFOWLING SHOTGUN IN HIGH ORIGINAL CONDITION.
SN 18860. Cal. 4 bore. 4″ Chambers. 42″ Dovetailed stub Damascus bbls are engraved “E. M. Reilly & Co Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe. Paris.” on relatively narrow concave top rib. Bottoms of bbls are stamped with London black powder proofs for 6 bore and with SNs. Large nickel-plated Jones underlever action with non-rebounding peninsula back locks have round bodied serpentine hammers and back sliding safeties. Locks have four positions; fired, 8th cock, half cock, and full cock. Safeties engage at 8th cock. Action and locks are completely unadorned except for makers name on the tail of each lock. SN is on trigger guard tang. Lightly streaked and figured European walnut straight grip buttstock measures 14-3/8″ over nickel-plated buttplate, and has classic point pattern checkering with mullered borders at grip, and a vacant silver oval on toe line. Matching splinter forend has shaped steel tip, and attaches to bbls with sliding side bolt through oval escutcheons. It appears this gun was made before chokes were invented. Diameter at muzzles is .952. Drop at heel: 2″, drop at comb: 1-13/16″. Weight: 18 lbs. 12 oz. LOP: 14-3/8″. CONDITION: Excellent, very close to new. Bbls retain nearly all of their Damascus brown with only slight silvering at muzzles, and some overall flecking. All other major metal parts retain nearly all of their orig heavy nickel plating, with only a few scattered knocks and a small bit of peeling at toe of buttplate. Action and trigger guard screws retain most of their orig case hardening color. Minor pins and safeties retain most of their orig fire blue. Stocks have nearly all of their orig hand rubbed oil finish with scattered marks and scratches, checkering very lightly worn and dark. Mechanically excellent, but triggers and locks are somewhat sluggish due to congealed oil. Bores are excellent, with some light scratches. Action is tight. Waterfowlers such as this are seldom found in this condition, because they are usually heavily used in salty environments. A superb condition example like this is a great rarity. 51401-5 MGM170 (20,000-40,000) –
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/1363-396/






Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/17/18 01:41 AM

And a third Reilly 4 bore - can't see the SN.

http://www.dogsanddoubles.com/2009/12/good-gun-alert-reilly-4-bore-sxs/reilly_2/



Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/17/18 01:54 AM

==================================================================================================
20827 (1877)



And a 10 bore hammer gun: SN 20827. (address on rib other than name not mentioned in ad or shown in photos).
http://www.gunseekers.co.uk/South-East-Kent-SIDE-BY-SIDE-SHOTGUNS-E-M-REILLY-10-BORE--4303.htm



Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/17/18 02:01 AM

==================================================================================================
3514 - JC Reilly, but with New Oxford St. + post 1856 label



And I finally found the pictures of Reilly SN 3514 which I speculate may be part of a set of SN's reserved exclusively for JC after their move to Oxford st. muzzle loader mentioned above with the 502 New Oxford Street address - discussed in the post on page 9. (edit: Error. This is an English site gun. Terry Buffum's gun is 3402 but with 316 High Holborn...would love to see the rib on 3402).

Stock does look a little "plainer" than EM stocks.
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns-black-powder/reilly/percussion/12-gauge/170610144659005







Label has the 1851 Crystal Palace and 1855 Paris Universelle medals dating it between 1855-59.

Posted by: George L.

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/17/18 10:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Argo44


This is the one that I bought & still have......Best Regards, George
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/18/18 05:10 AM

Oh gosh, I kind of suspected so....but the site looked totally different and I was on yahoo.fr (France) instead of our google. George, that is a beautiful gun!!
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/22/18 09:59 PM

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1857 - JC Reilly and the "7000" series: "Veni Vidi Vici"


I just noticed an unusual coincidence. Terry has a JC Reilly SN 8025, 13 bore, single barreled, two groove rifle with an engraved "Veni, Vidi, Vici" on it. Internet has a 20 bore, single barrel, two grover with the same inscription. I wonder if they were made for the same owner or was this something JC adopted in his later age (mid 1850's?).

Here is the internet gun 8052 sold Sep 2017 in England - be interesting to post photos of Terry's gun next to it - would like to see the VVV engraving too:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/r...29-c-e6e45b9a5b

Description: REILLY, LONDON
A 20-BORE PERCUSSION SPORTING-RIFLE, serial no. 8052,
circa 1855, with browned twist iron octagonal 30in. two-groove rifled barrel, dove-tailed blade fore-sight, standing notch rear-sight with two additional folding leaves, the top-flat at breech signed 'REILLY NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON' followed by an engraved tri-fold banner marked 'VENI, VIDI, VICI', squared and engraved breech-block and fully engraved top-tang, fenced nipple, platinum plug, border, scroll and game-scene engraved bar action lock, chequered walnut pistol-grip half-stock with iron furniture including a game-scene engraved patch-box and fitted with a set-trigger, eyelets for sling and mushroom headed mahogany ramrod.




Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/26/18 11:22 AM

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1872 - Reilly and Emperor Napoleon II - Empress Eugenie


Dr. Drew, ran across this 2008 line on DGS on who made the guns for early Brit manufacturers and your comments.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...amp;type=thread
The photos have been deleted. By any chance do you retain the photos and information on both the 12 and 20 bore used by Princes Eugenie and imported into the US by Sturteant?

"Thanks to Dr Drew, Once again for posting the 20bore E M Reilly, I have the 12b also Cased with allLoading Goodies. The letter along with the 2 Guns is, European Royalty and the Reilly Invoice shows just how Mr Sturtevant of Newport R.I.U.S.A. brought the Guns to America.I am not the owner, just the Researcher/Cleaner/Photo'Snapper".The Empress Euginie, Mother of Napoleon lll. Used the 20b Quite Often' I hope to get the story into "ONE of the Glossie's...Some Grand Photos. The Guns are the Quality expected from London Best Makers of the period. The stripped-down photos will show this...DirtyDave /cc

"cc/dt is digging deep beneath the bench for his Reilly stash, so I went ahead and made a PictureTrail album
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=19914837
Here's the Pouiatowski Monogram"
Posted by: Terry Buffum

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/27/18 01:32 PM


"SxS40" picked up the bar-in-wood at the Vegas show and asked me to let him know if I found others. I did, while moving cased guns to put some guns from the show back into the two big safes.

Jones action, 8 bore, #17591, rib marked E. M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. Locks marked in ribbon E. M. Reilly & CO.

Fore end is keyed type. A horn tip on the fore end aids in lifting it as it is removed. No engraving other than name on locks, a bit of scroll on top rib at breech and all the screws. Looks like a market hunter's gun, not a gentleman's toy.

Unmarked drawer type case (tray with gun pulls out the end) has been in-expertly rebuilt, gun is untouched, but little finish on metal, numerous dings on wood. Presentable as is, but certainly not a high condition survivor.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/27/18 03:19 PM

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16139 (early 1870)



Terry, I added it to the list above. You ought to post that gun in the "for sale" section. And I for one would very much like to see photos for history. Thanks. Oh, if any other Reilly's you've sort of forgotten about turn up, please let us know. Amazing..simply amazing.

16139
By the way I was contacted by Douglas Tate, who reminded that he wrote an article for DGJ in 1994 about a gold washed Reilly underlever hammer gun BPE rifle. He sent me the original 1992 ad and commented that the article was before the internet and thus research options were limited. Can someone please tell me which issue of DGJ this appeared in (Spring, Summer, etc?). There are 1994 issues for sale on the internet. Thanks. It has both Oxford St and Rue Scribe addresses, should be early 1870 and may now be the earliest Reilly in my records with rebounding hammers. I've added this gun to the above list as well.

Lot 580

E. M. REILLY & CO. A FINE AND RARE GOLD-
WASHED 12-BORE HAMMER PRESENTATION
RIFLE NO. 16139; 26-inch barrels, engraved and
etched with foliate scrolls, leaf sights to 200, frame,
rebounding barlocks, noseless hammers and rotary
under-lever engraved with lions in landscape and
scrolls 14 1/2-inch figured stock with pistol grip and
engraved heel plate, 10lb. 8oz., black powder proof,
stock cracked and repaired, horn fore-end tip missing.

£2,000-3,000

edit: Cancel appeal on the magazine issue above since Doug had sent me the data...and I'd just plain overlooked the information. I need lots of pictures these days.

These spectacular photos are from the Douglas Tate's DGJ article. If there are copyright issues...and it's now been 23 years since they were published...I'll delete them. Label is the generic 1860-1898 label. It does not have the 1867 Paris medals (1868-71 but occasional afterwards as well), nor does it have the rue Scribe branch address. It is 502 New Oxford St. so 1871-1882 time Frame. No scolloped corners; likely a reproduction label.

Posted by: Terry Buffum

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/28/18 03:03 PM

The article on the gold washed E M Reilly is in DGJ Vol 5, Issue 1, Spring 1994, pages 120-24.

Page 9 shows a different E M Reiily gun, and an ad for another rifle is on page 158.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/28/18 04:49 PM

==================================================================================================
Reilly Bibliography


Thanks Terry...Doug also contacted me and I've ordered that issue. Which brings up the question of compiling a Bibliography on Reilly for future historians.

Can you by chance tell me off hand every DGJ that's had an article about Reilly? I know the following:
-- DGJ Summer 2015 - "EM Reilly; Purdey's Pretentious Rival" - John Campbell; describes Reilly as a Purdey wannabe.
-- DGJ Summer 2005 - "The Reilly Factor" - John Campbell
-- DGJ Autumn 2005 - “Bore Rifles Part II” - Sherman Bell; describes this rifle and his load development to get it shooting 3-3/4″ groups at 50 yards.
-- DGJ Spring 1994 (ordered).

Also Terry Weiland wrote a well received articles
-- "Shotgun Life" "Sipping the Grand Cru"(read it); also widely published in "Daily Caller" Sep 2016 and other on-line publications.
-- "Guns and Ammo" - Terry Weiland
-- "Gray's Sporting Journal" - April, 2007; "Jupiter's Nuts" Terry Weiland
-- "Gray's Sporting Journal" - April, 2009; "Catbird" - Terry Weiland
-- "Gray's Sporting Journal" - December, 2016; "Artistry, Emotion, and Things That Go Bang" - Terry Weiland
-- "Rifle Magazine" - Apr 2012; "Reilly 20 bore Hammer Gun - Terry Weiland

Other magazines:
— “Sporting Classics Daily” - Nov 23, 215; The Virtuous 12 Bore -
-- "Classic Arms Journal " - "The King of the Rifles" - Ross Seyfried (.577 Martini-Henry's)
-- Double Gun Classic" - Jul-Aug 2005. "The Reilly Factor" - John Campbell:

Books:
-- Vintage British Shotguns - Terry Weiland
-- Dangerous Game Rifles - Terry Weiland
— Gun Digest 2009
— Gun Digest 2014

-- "Wyman's Commercial Encyclopedia of Leading Manufacturers of Great Britain" P. 295-6.
-- "Our Gunmakers - E M Reilly & Co" - 2.5 page article from a rare Victorian periodical  
-- British Gunmakers Their Trade Cards, Cases and Equipment 1760-1860 - Neal Back
-- GUNMAKERS OF LONDON 1350-1850, by Howard L. Blackmore - 1986 Includes supplement
-- British Gunmakers: v. 1: London by Nigel Brown (Hardback, 2004)


I'll add to this list as I compile literature on Reilly. Certainly need to add "Wyman". In the meantime if anyone knows of other articles/books with info on Reilly, would much appreciate your sending it to me...I'll compile the Bibliography.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/28/18 05:58 PM

I mentioned this gun in the unknown SN XXXX post on Page 4. It's a Single barrel, 4 bore, percussion rifle so I think I'lll do it again. No Serial Number but as a muzzle loader with two groove rifling and with E.M Reilly, London in the rib - it has to be post 1858 and probably pre 1862.
-- First it has two groove rifling, something Terry Buffum raised earlier and we looked into a bit on his 8025 JC Reilly (page 8). Two groove rifling seems to have originated experimentally around 1845 and may have been popularized by Purdy in the early 1850 (need more research).
-- Second there may be an Indian connection to the Nizam of Hyderabad which is always of interest to me. - I've posted the story below (unclear whether the Nizam owned the Reilly).
-- and third - it's a 4 bore.
-- What's interesting is the barrels have a Birmingham Black Powder proof mark. That in itself is unusual and it doesn't have a SN..that's odd...so did he market the gun rather than make it? - if so he wouldn't have put a number on it.

E. M. REILLY FOUR BORE BELTED BALL PERCUSSION RIFLE.
SN NSN. Cal. 4 bore. (1.015 bore diameter, 1.120 groove diameter. Two groove). 26″ Tapered octagon twist bbl is mounted with one standing leaf rear, and “certifiable antique elephant ivory” blade front sight. Top flat is engraved “E. M. Reilly & Co. London”. Bottom flat is stamped with Birmingham black powder proof. Case hardened patent breech is engraved with large open scroll. Case hardened breech iron with integral fence is engraved with large shaded scroll. Large bar action lockplate is mounted with tall, round bodied, slightly serpentine hammer. Hammer and lockplate are engraved with more large open scroll. “E. M. Reilly & Co” is on front portion of plate. Trigger plate is mounted with germanic type double set triggers, and trigger must be set before lock can be cocked. Trigger guard with squared bow has shell finial, and is also scroll engraved. Full length stock with swan-necked butt, is of indeterminate tropical wood, and measures 14-7/8″ over blued steel buttplate. Stock features large germanic style swept shadow line left hand cheekpiece. A hand forged ramrod is held by single plain pipe. Drop at heel: approx 3″, drop at comb: approx 2-1/8″. Weight: 16 lbs. 6 oz. LOP: 14-7/8″. PROVENANCE: Invoice and correspondence regarding purchase and import of this rifle. Special Note: This item contains or is made of ivory. Do not bid on this lot unless you have read and agreed to our "Ivory Position Statement" and the "Waiver of Legal and Financial Risk to James D. Julia in regards to your Purchase of an Ivory Object." This information is located in the front section of our catalog. CONDITION: Fine, as rebuilt and refinished. Metal parts retain nearly all of sympathetic refinish. What appears to be old restock is completely refinished, with large repair pegged onto toe and 1-1/2″ crack at left rear of breech iron. Bore is good, shootable, with considerable pitting. Lock is crisp. Set trigger works. An interesting big bore rifle showing what is most probably South African restocking. 49958-37 MGM62 IVORY (4,000-7,000)





Here is the story:

http://revivaler.com/four-bore-rifle-two/
Posted by: Tomato stake

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/30/18 06:56 PM

Hi,new here. I have E.M. Reilly hammer gun 17495. 12b sleeved under push lever w/horn knob. #1 on rib,Tang & forearm. J. Purdy patent 1182 on water table. Tight gun shoots well. (11th place in last year's southern sxs) Will post pics if interested.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/30/18 09:44 PM

Stake...that's what the line's for and the Reilly owners would value a view of your gun. I'll add the SN to the list above. 17495 should be 1871. Would much appreciate your letting us know the address on the rib. It should have the Rue Scribe, Paris address (but this was sometime omitted). And nice shooting.
Posted by: KDGJ

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/30/18 10:30 PM

I haven't looked at all the issues, but the DGJ index 1 (1990-1996) gives the following EM Reilly references:

-Vol 4, Issue 1 (pg 115)
-Vol 4, Issue 2 (pg 45)
-There are quite a few Reilly references in the 1990-1996 index.

DGJ index 2 (1997-2005)
-Vol 9, Issue 1 (pg 116)
-Vol 10, Issue 1 (pg 68)
-Vol 13, Issue 1 (pg 133)
-Vol 15, Issue 2 (pg 143)
-Vol 15 Issue 3 (pg 9)

I don't think DGJ has issued an index 3 yet.

Ken
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/30/18 11:18 PM

Many thanks Ken....
Posted by: Tomato stake

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/31/18 07:00 AM

Yes Oxford st and Rue Scribe on rib. Will work on pics when gun comes back from Smith for post season ck up. Also correction on southern 14th place hammer division. (I always shoot better in my memory than real life!)
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/02/18 11:35 PM

Reilly Military Rifle clones: In case I get hit by a bus or something, I’d like to pass along to the Reilly community my observations on Reilly and “Military Guns.”

Reilly's business model from the beginning was to produce a quality product, cheaply and deliver it rapidly. He sold used guns, and put his name on guns he was an agent for (Trantor revolvers, Henry rifles, etc.). And, unlike Purdey, Holland & Holland, etc., Reilly made hundreds of military rifle clones over the life of the firm. There was a very good business reason for doing this. Britain at the time was a nation of hunters - if you were to aspire to a certain class, you had to hunt just like you had to gamble; It was the heyday of the British Empire and British colonial officials and officers going abroad wanted their own guns; they took military clones because it enabled them to use military issue ammunition.

In addition from at least 1840, when J.C. Reilly first displayed a mortar bomb he designed, the Reilly’s did go after one big prize: a British Army military contract for small arms. He did this with the Prince patent breech loader (1855), The Greener breech loader (1862), and the Reilly Comblain breech loader (1868).

This led Reilly to produce copies of prominent breech loaders on the market at the time. He rarely numbered these rifles (though sometimes he did) for reasons to be explained. These guns are not the lovely, engraved, graceful Damascus barreled side by sides associated with Reilly; but this post is necessary to understand the company’s business philosophy and its ambitions - he did not want to compete with Purdey - he wanted business..he wanted to undercut Purdey selling quality wares at half the price - and EM’s business model was successful - for instance in 1880 he sold 660+ numbered guns (in addition to used guns and guns made under license); Purdey sold 238; Holland & Holland 200.

Following are examples of Reilly military rifle clone’s produced on the following military designs:
— 1853 .577 Enfield muzzle loader, percussion rifle.
— 1855 Prince patent breech loading rifle
— 1862 Green Brothers patent breech loader rifle
— 1866 Snider Enfield rifle
-- 1868 Reilly Comblain breech loader
— 1871 Martini Henry rifle
— 1902 Enfield SMLE .303 bolt action mag-fed rifle. (yes Reilly fans…read on)

==================================================================================================================================
1853 Enfield:




.577 Enfield officially designated the P-1853 Enfield Rifle Musket: In October 1853 the British Army, after extensive trials adopted the .577 muzzle-loading percussion hammer gun as the official rifle of the Army. It was widely regarded as the finest military muzzle loader in the world from 1853 until it was supplanted in the 1860’s by breech loaders. This was the gun that armed the British Army during the latter stages of the Crimean War, the Mutiny in India and much of the Confederate army and the Union Army during the War Between the States aka the War of Northern Aggression.



It had 3 groove rifling, fired a .577 minie ball, and had a revolutionary adjustable backsight. Reilly made Enfields and usually put his Serial Number on them. He may have made these from scratch - he did not order Enfield parts from the armory and assemble them. (In later Enfields - Sniders and Martini's the Enfield factory would ship parts to the firm wanting to sell a replica or clone). Here are a few examples of Serial Numbered Reilly 1853 Enfields:

11227 - A numbered Enfield, which the seller claims was made in standard military configuration and engraved and assembled by Reilly. It has E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford St., London on the rib. The SN is where is should be, on the tang behind the trigger guard. The seller claimed it should be 1861. The SN indicates it was indeed numbered circa 1860.



Xxxx - An unidentified sporterized Enfield made by Reilly from a Polish site. Note the sight which identifies it as an Enfield clone; Note the engraving.



xxxxx - 2 band 1858 .577 short Enfield with no SN labeled on the receiver Reilly, New Oxford St., London.



12079 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 & 502 Oxford Street, London; .451 cal. Rifle; Percussion, muzzle loader. (1st “315 Oxford St.” address identified on a surviving Reilly gun rib). 12079 should have been numbered circa 1861.



==================================================================================================================================
1855 Prince Patent


In 1855 London gunmaker Frederick Prince patented a breech loader. It was tested by British Ordinance and outshot the just adopted .577 Enfield muzzle loader in rapidity of fire and accuracy at 300 yards. It was called “beyond comparison the best breech loader” in a testimonial signed by twelve of the best known London gunsmiths (Reilly included?). Ordinance refused to adopt it regarding it as too complicated (and face it - they didn't like new-fangled stuff). In 1859 a group of London gun makers including Manton, Wilkinson, Samuel Nock, Parker Field and Tatham (and Reilly?) petitioned Ordinance to reconsider the decision. It was turned down.

Reilly had some sort of undefined relationship with Prince...the same crowd of gun makers were with Prince and with the Green Bros later. Green Bros an Prince had a partnership for awhile that dissolved in 1959; Reilly got manufacturing rights for Green Bros breech loader in 1862. Again, when you look at who was friends with whom, the same suspects show up so Reilly had to be part of the group advocating for Prince.

Prince’s Patent rifles were produced by a several different British gunmakers including Prince’s own company Prince & Green, Wilkinson’s, E.M. Reilly and Isaac Hollis & Sons. The rifles were made in various calibres from the British army’s standard issue .577 to much smaller rook and rabbit hunting guns .24 and .37 calibre.

http://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/130088370814/frederick-princes-breech-loading-rifle-in/embed

In view of the fact that Reilly built Prince breech loaders, one must assume EM Reilly was one of the 12 prominent gun makers who testified about the Prince in 1855 and was part of the 1859 petition, possibly with the hope of participating in a lucrative Ordinance contract.

Here are two surviving Reilly Prince Patent guns which he has serial numbered - usually meaning he produced and made the parts for the gun himself:

10782 - Reilly, New Oxford St. London. .577 cal; Rifle; single barrel breech loader, Frederic Prince patent (circa1858)



11645 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 100 bore; Rifle. Prince patent, single barrel, breech loader, (circa 1860)

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/02/18 11:36 PM

==================================================================================================================================
1862 Green Brothers Patent Breech Loader


In 1860 “Green Brothers” C.E. AND J., took out a provisional patent on a breech loader and in 1862 received the full patent. Reilly produced one (surviving) gun on the Green brothers patent which he serial numbered. In 1865 the Green brothers (possibly with Reilly as a silent partner?) submitted the gun for testing when British Ordinance, panicked by the 1864 Prussian victory over the Danes using breech-loading needle fire guns, decided Britain needed a breech loader. The Green Bros gun did very well but ultimately lost out to the Snider Enfield.

13333. .577 percussion cap breech loader on the Green Brothers Patent marked E.M Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford St., London on the rib behind the ladder sight and on the bolt. On the bolt also is Reilly’s name and address along with Green Bros…with license #23 - one of the first produced. This is an 1862 Green Brothers Patent gun one of the first - serial numbered by Reilly and appropriately engraved. As such it is a definitive date "marker" for serial numbers. Edit: Per subsequent post, Reilly did not start manufacturing this gun until April 1864...it was trialed in June. Thus 13333 should have been made about May 1864.



==================================================================================================================================
1866 Snider Enfield


In early 1864 the armies of Europe were shocked by the decisive victory the Prussian Dreyse Needle Guns brought during the Danish-Prussian War. In 1865 the British began to seriously look for a breech-loading replacement of their Enfield 1853 Pattern rifle muskets. Following trials of various submitted designs Jacob Snider’s cartridge conversion was selected and in September 1866 the .577 Snider rifle was introduced becoming Britain’s first breech-loading military rifle.

Snider was an American inventor who from 1864 to 66 submitted three versions of his snider breech. He never received a penny and died in poverty in 1866 in London before his invention was adopted. It was ingenious. All it required was to saw off the back of the 1853 barrel and screw on the Snider breech. Ammunition gave some initial problems but was rapidly overcome.

Snider’s continued in use for 60 years, and were entered in marksmanship contests up to 1920 in Canada and pre-war in Britain. They were issued to the Indian Army in 1875 after the British adopted the Martini-Henry; (Britian after the Mutiny always made sure Indian troops were one generation behind in rifles). They were instrumental in the Indian Army Abyssinian campaign.



Because of the ease of conversion, a lot of Reilly 1853 Enfields were converted to Sniders in the 1860’s. Here are some Reilly Sniders which he numbered….he did not number guns unless he built them.

11651 - E.M. Reilly, Oxford St., London. .577 cal; Enfield type, percussion muzzle loader converted to Snider breech loader.



15239 - E.M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford St., London. .577. single barrel Snider Enfield.



16607 - E.M. Reilly (no address). .577. Rifle; Single barrel. Snider Enfleld.



XXXXX - .577 caliber Snider, Canadian gun. No Sn mentioned. Snider sporting rifle by Reilly of London (no full name/addreess mentioned).



Xxxxx - No SN mentioned. .750 caliber. African game gun labeled E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London.

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/03/18 02:34 PM

==================================================================================================================================
1868 Reilly Comblain


The 1866 Snider Enfield was regarded by the British Army only as a stop-gap breech loader until a fully dedicated breech loader could be developed and adopted. Also I believe Ordinance noted that the .577 bullet went sub-sonic after about 400 yards and this effected its accuracy at longer distances; they were interested in a smaller caliber, higher velocity cartridge (I'll let the Snider guys discuss this further). In 1867 Ordinance put out the call for a breech loader design - to be covered further in the Martini Henry section below:

In 1867 the Belgian firm Comblain took out a patent on a breech loader. The patent was described in “The Engineer” of May 15, 1868 on page 347. See this site: http://www.militaryrifles.com/Comblains/ComblainCart.htm; Patent No. 5480.

Reilly went into partnership with Comblain to try to market it to the Ordinance. The bid didn’t progress very far. Apparently the Army felt it was too similar to the Snider. The Comblain breech loader was adopted by Belgium and for 30 years by the Brazilian army. However, Reilly became the “sole manufacturers” of Comblain’s in Britain and his name is on at least seven of them that are extant. Most Reilly-Comblain have only the London address-it was a British army trials after all and having a Frenchy address would not have been a pluse; however one trial's gun has “Paris” stamped on the butt plate. Most of the early guns were proofed in Belgium - some have Birmingham proofs - and none of them have a Reilly Serial Number on them. One, however has “E.M.Reilly & Co., Sole Manufacturers, New Oxford St London just ahead of the breech:

Xxxxx. .577 Reilly-Comblain rifle, serial no. 32. Blued 30in barrel, block and blade fore-sight, ladder rear-sight, the nocksform signed 'E.M. REILLY & Co. RIFLE MANUFACTURERS, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON', lift up lever with horizontal bolt handle mounted to the right hand side lifting and drawing out the breech-block, the block signed 'REILLY-COMBLAIN PATENT No. 32', plain colour-hardened lock signed 'E.M. REILLY & Co. LONDON’.



Xxxxx. This rifle is stamped on the barrel ahead of the breach E.M.Reilley& Co Sole Manufacturers New Oxford st London on the lock plate E.M.Reilly & Co. London. Caliber is .577.



Xxxxx. Reilly Comblain rifle; 30”, barrel with Birmingham proofs "25", sabre bayonet lug and typical period Enfield sights; 5-groove rifling like the 1860 or '61 Short Rifles. Chambered for the .577 Snider round. Receiver ring stamped "E.M.REILLY & Co / SOLE MANUFACTURERS / NEW OXFORD STREET / LONDON" . Breechblock stamped "REILLY-COMBLAIN / PATENT No 5048". Butt is marked with a large 3" ink stamp "PATENTED BY E.M. REILLY & Co LONDON & PARIS".



Xxxxx. Fusil d'infanterie à percussion centrale, modèle E. M. Reilly ; calibre 14,8 mm ; canon poli blanc, poinçonné et signé : "E. M. Reilly & C° Sole Manufacturers new Oxford Street London" ; culasse marquée : "Reilly Comblain patent n° 5298" ; platine avant polie blanc, marquée : "E M Reilly & C° London"



Xxxxx. .577 Snider, 20 1/2" barrel. The top of the action is engraved "H. HOLLAND / 98 NEW BOND ST. / LONDON", the lockplate is engraved simply "H. HOLLAND" and the breechblock is marked "REILLY-COMBLAIN / PATENT NO. / 125". A brass plaque affixed to the bottom of the stock beneath action is beautifully engraved "Reilly / Comblain / Patent / No. 25”. (Note 98 New Bond St. is the address of Holland & Holland.). (Also, since I can find no record of a Reilly-Comblain Patent 25 - Believe that this is the 25th gun produced on the Reilly Comblain patent? by H&H no less).

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/03/18 08:47 PM

==================================================================================================================================
1871 Martini Henry:


This is the gun of the Zulu Wars, Rorke’s Drift, 2nd Campaign in Afghanistan. In Kabul I bought several Pashtun made copies of the 1853 Enfield, 1866 Snider Enfield, and both Mark I and Mark II variants of the Martini-Henry. Whenever anyone sees the guns together, they immediately go to the Martini Henry.



To begin the process on the next generation breech-loader, British War office held a prize competition in 1865 with a prize money of £5000 to select from weapon that used a smaller, higher velocity projectile than the .577” snider. The trials were to take place within the next two years, with an ultimate winner to be announced in 1869,

On June 11, 1867, the prize sub-committee of the OSC reported that 104 rifles had been submitted for examination. Of those, 37 were in compliance with the terms of the advertisement, 67 had not complied, and while ineligible for the competition were set aside for consideration on their own merits. Further consideration of the 37 complying rifles, resulted in the rejection of 28. The nine systems to be carried over for trial, and requiring six specimen arms were the Albini & Braendlin, the Burton No.1 and No. 2, the Fosbery, the Henry, the Joslyn, the Martini, the Peabody, and The Remington. (See the Reilly Comblain mentioned in the chronology below)

The Martini action coupled with a Henry barrel won out. (Frederic von Martini of Switzerland basically copied and improved on a design by American Henry Peabody.). On 13th April 1871 the orders were placed at the Royal Small Arms factory at Enfield for full scale production of the Martini Henry Rifle, between then and 1874 The Martini Henry was trialled throughout the Empire by various regiments, and finally on September 28th 1874 it was authorized for full issue to the British Army. (Mark I-IV variants).

Many companies made Martini-Henry clones including Greener.

17314 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577/.450. Rifle single barrel. First Reilly Martini SN (if it is his). You'll note the Martini patent on the left side of the receiver. Supposedly if a company wanted to build a Martini, they had to contact Enfield which would send over the parts. This Reilly if the SN is correct would be 1871 - just after the formal adoption of the Martini and its trial period. Perhaps this explains why it was serial numbered. I'll have to defer to the Martini experts and there are a number of excellent sites and experts out there. Edit: Subsequent post shows the first Reilly advertisement for a Martini-Henry to be December 1871. The Reilly SN Date List on P.17 below dates 17314 to very late 1871.





Xxxxx E.M. Reilly & Co, New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris; 52 on the bore means, that it is a .450 Cal. Bore. This fits with 11.6mm bore dia. Proof marks show Black Powder, possibly 3 1/4” cartridge length. This might be a 450, 3 1/4 BPE or a 500/450 BPE.



Xxxxx. E M Reilly 577/450 Martini. This gun came out of an estate of a gentleman who hunted in South Africa and Rhodesia in the 1960's and 70's. According to the estate manager the gun was purchased while gent was on a hunt to Rhodesia. This is a commercially built 577/450 Martini Henry by E M REILLY & CO, OXFORD ST, LONDON.



Xxxxx. Small framed .380 martini rook-rifle retailed by E.M. Reilly, 315 oxfordstreet , London.

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/03/18 09:07 PM

===================================================================================================================================
1903-11 SMLE Enfield. (Lee Speed - sporterized version)


In 1879 the British Army began experimenting with magazine fed bolt-action rifles. This led to the adoption of the Lee-Medford in 1888 chambered for .303. It had problems especially with its single stack magazine. In 1892-5 this was fixed with the adoption of the Lee-Enfield aka “Long Lee”. I have one from Afghanistan. Lee-Medford continued in service for years. In 1907 or thereabouts the famous SMLE Enfield .303 was born, used by the British army and the empire for 50 years in both World Wars and by tribesmen from Yemen to Baluchistan.” (the history of the Lee-Medford/Enfields is so extensive that I'll let the experts talk further about it).

You don’t think of Reilly making a magazine fed high-powered modern rifle, Yet here it is. (The labels after 1898 did advertise "magazine rifles" - see trade label posts below). A sporterized SMLE Enfield - i.e. a Lee Speed... E.M.Reilly & Co., .375 X 2.5" nitro express. Patented tang safety. Full length file cut rib. Express and ladder sights. Scroll engraved on wrist strap action and trigger guard. Scope mounts fixed in past. Barrel address reads E.M. REILLY & CO. 295 OXFORD STREET LONDON. (i.e 1903-1911)

The .375 Nitro Express 2½ inch Velopex , was a nitrocellulose (smokeless) powder cartridge introduced in 1899. A hunting cartridge produced for single-shot and double rifles, the .375 Flanged NE is a slightly longer version of the .303 British necked out to .375 caliber.



And Lee-Speeds were being sold by Reilly before the Enfield became the SMLE...these had to be Long Lees?

03 June 1893, "Volunteer Services Gazette"


By the way, did other prominent London gun makers maker similar guns?

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/06/18 12:50 AM

===================================================================================================================================
1835-1912 Reilly Case-Trade label Analysis


A CASE FOR LABELS

I’ve looked at every Reilly case label I’ve been able to find and there is a case to be made that case labels can help dating a gun or at least understand what was going on in the company at the time. Of course case labels can be easily changed out; cases are relined;, replaced and an awful lot of sellers who have original case labels just don’t photograph the label.

Following are several different labels that look to have been used by Reilly from pre 1847 to 1903 (when they moved from 277 to 295 Oxford Street). I’ve tried to pick examples that were authentically original and not-surprisingly, some of these came out of pistol/revolver or air-cane cases - obviously those cases were left in hall-cupboards of the rich and weren’t being carted off into the woods in the rain. This compilation may not mean much, unless it does. And there are often some pretty neat inscriptions on original labels such as serial numbers, dates, prices, Sanskrit writing. Note: Most of the labels after 1848 which are probably authentic are rectangular with scolloped corners. I'm not ready to call every paper label without scollops "reproductions" but again most (not all) originals have that feature.

If anyone has other labels out there…photographs would be much appreciated, especially for the 1850’s era when those mysterious stamps appeared and now need to be interpreted (edit: Mystery SOLVED) and anything from about 1880-87 - the labels which reference royalty.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............Pre-1847 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

1). Pre 1847; No gun serial number (Air Cane)
Comment: This label has the 316 High Holborn Address. Note that Reilly identifies himself as “Gun Maker.” The is the only existing 316 High Holborn label I've found.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1847 - Move to 502 New Oxford Street
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


May 1847. S/N 8463;
Rib: Reilly, New Oxford Street, London
Label: Joseph C.Reilly,
Gun Maker
502 Oxford Street;
Removed from Holborn



Nov/Dec 1847 S/N: 8578
Rib: J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London
Label: Joseph Charles Reilly,
Gun Maker
502 New Oxford Street London.
Removed from Holborn



1847 S/N: 7201
Rib: Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London
Label: Joseph Charles Reilly,
Gun Maker
502 Oxford Street
Removed from Holborn
Comment: The “J.C. - 7000 series” with “Removed from Holborn.”



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1848-C1855? Reilly, Gun Maker, 502 New Oxford Street
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is the generic Reilly label after their move to 502 New Oxford Street: They were proud of this building and featured it on their labels. These labels were on guns and on air canes. It also probably reflects the business acumen of EM Reilly - his father used plain, almost business-card-like labels; this one is more professional.

Looks like French handwritten numbers on the label. 640 Piece francs or Pierre Freres? G9291210 (no idea what the number means - they look like numerals written in sub-continent style):



Air Cane label from same era.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............C1855?-1859? Reilly, Gun Maker, 502 New Oxford Street with “stamps”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


At some point two stamps were added to the above label on either side of “London.” There are four examples of this. They refer to his having exhibited at the 1851 Crystal Palace industrial exposition in London and the 1855 Paris Universalle. If a gun has this label, and it is original...it is 1855-1859.

.............London 1851 Bronze Medal"..................................................Napoleon III prize from the 1855 Paris Universelle:



And there is a French phrase "Fusils a bascule" on the label which means "Center Break (breech loading) long guns" reflecting the impact Casimir Lefaucheux had at the 1851 Crystal Palace Exhibition. Lang put out the first British breech loader in 1853 on Lefracheux's system...upgraded...a pretty shameless invasion of a patent and by 1855, Reilly is advertising the guns (in French) along with "improved breech loaders," which may apply to other patents coming current at the time such as Prince's 1855 patent.

This first label below comes from an amazing four barrel muzzle loader made for the India Market probably in mid-1850's. It has "Exposition Medal London" and "Prize Medal Paris" . Sanscrit writing on the label...



Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/06/18 12:51 AM

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1859 - 1867; E.M Reilly; 502 New Oxford Street; internal border added
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"E.M." appeared on ribs and ads in Fall 1859; The branch at 315 Oxford Street was opened in January 1859. Yet the address on the labels for the most part featured only 502. Labels have corner scollops and an internal border. (see p. 19 for a more complete explanation)

1859? EM Reilly,
........Gun Manufacturers,
........New Oxford Street,
........London (Indian market)



The Sanskrit script reads .. Maharaj Pratap Singh ji Solarkar or Sarkar Palamau. Vaishak..(i.e April/May) Sudi 12 means 12 of April/ May..Sanwat 1937 means Hindu calendar Vikrami Sanwat 1937. that is 137 years old. 200 Silvers rupees paid to the seller along with some presentation. I.e. the gun was resold in India in 1880 for 200 silver rupees to Maharajah Pratap Singh ji, Sarkar (lord) of Palamau.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1859-68 (502 but no 315 Oxford Street)”GUN MANUFACTURERS”; Internal border on paper labels
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And Reilly began identifying himself as a "Gun Manufacturer" possibly as early as summer 1860.

1861 (Based on gun S/N) S/N: 12532
Rib: REILLY 502 NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON
Label: E.M. REILLY
…….…502 NEW OXFORD STREET
……….LONDON
Ornamental gold-wash gun and case made for Indian market



This is the generic label from 1859 to the French exposition in Paris of 1867. There are a dozen examples of this label in exactly the same configuration. There is only 502 Oxford Street on these labels yet S/N’s of the guns show they were numbered long after 315 Oxford Street was opened. "Fusil a Bascule" has become "Improved breech loaders...." - THIS IS THE GENERIC LABLE OF CHOICE FOR REPRODUCTIONS THESE DAYS. And it may have been revived circa 1879-circa 1885. (see below) but with internal borders.

1862 (based on gun S/N) S/N: 13599
Rib: E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London
Label: E.M. Reilly & Co.
Gun Manufacturers
502 New Oxford Street
London
Large Assortment of Double Fowling Pieces, Double Rifles
Approved Breech Loaders on the Latest Approved Systems
No illustration, no medals; Sanskrit writing:



Tipping & Lawden Derringer from early 1860's with Sharp's patent.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1868 (502 and 315 Oxford Street and Medals won in Paris Summer 1867) GUN MANUFACTURERS - Internal border
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


This Air-Cane label is after the close of the Paris Exposition in July 1867 (and the awarding of the medals) and before the opening of Rue Scribe in Feb 1868. NOTE: This is in error - there is mention of "establishments" (plural) and a close inspection will show that 2 Rue Scribe on the right side of the label has been rubbed out - someone didn't much like the French.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1868-1872? (502, 315 Oxford Street, 2 Rue Scribe and Medals won in Paris Summer 1867) GUN MANUFACTURERS
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The generic label used by Reilly from 1868 upon the opening of Rue Scribe until he dropped the medals from his labels sometime in the 1870's. This label has the three addresses ("and 2, Rue Scribe...indicating it had just opened?), the medals won in Paris and the types of guns he makes and sells. This label is on at least 15 cases from the era.
-- About 1868 he placed on his newspaper and magazine advertisements "Fournisseurs Brevete de S.M L'Empereur" - i.e. Napoleon III. (There were two Reilly's discussed on this board 10 years ago which had been owned by Princesses Eugenie). Obviously N-III went into the dust-bin of history during the Franco-Prussian war two years later. There is no evidence of this hubris appearing on his labels, however. Of course Napoleon III abdicated after the defeat at Sedan in September 1870. Reilly still had the medals on his magazine and book advertisements in 1871, and mentioned the Emperor in an ad in an 1872 issue of Bradshaw. Nothing afterwards
-- In 1876 he added "King of Portugal" to his advertisements; and in 1881 King of Netherlands and King of Spain. The three "Kings" began to appear on labels about 1882?



Somebody wrote the price in Dollars - $260.00. Branch Establishment (singular); The "and" is dropped in front of Rue Scribe. 315 is missing.



Presentation case from 1871:



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............Circa 1872? - 1886? (502 and/or 315 Oxford Street with no Paris Medals; GUN MANUFACTURERS
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sometime in the early-mid-1870's he dropped the Paris medals from his labels. I'm wondering if this actually happened earlier - Napoleon III's face was on those medals and they might not have sat well with the 3rd French Republic when it was constituted in 1875. (per above, on advertisements the medals disappear after 1871 and references to the emperor disappear in 1872 (and that last advertisement in Bradshaw likely had been contracted for months before).

Anyway, there are fIVE examples below from guns numbered 20255 (c1875), 22423 (c1879) 25377 (c1884) and two from cases containing guns whose SN is unknown. It's interesting that some of these had 502 or 315 on them even after the numbering system on Oxford Street changed in December 1881. This label seemed to go on and on: Terry Buffum reported that his guns serial numbers 34221 & 34222 with the 16 New Oxford Street on the ribs has a case with the 315 Oxford Street address (likely relined many years ago). It may be this was the reprinted Reilly label of choice which might call into question its authenticity in some of the below cases... (by 1881 "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" began to appear on his advertisements - not all, but a significant number. and he regularly used 16 and 277 rather than 502 and 315. So I could be persuaded to call the last four of the below labels, the ones without rue Scribe, "reprinted" even if some time ago - although with 5 old labels...that's sort of like trying to put the toothpaste back into the tube.

20255 - E.M, Reilly & Co., (address on rib not mentioned). 12 ga, Shotgun SxS top lever, hammer gun. 315 main address + 502 & Rue Scribe (no "Branch Establishments"). - This label appears authentic. (scollops but no internal border).



22423 (1879) - Oid label...no rue Scribe. This label looks to be from 1859-67. And it appears that Reilly from about 1872-86 used this old label often deleting Rue Scribe and 315?:

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/06/18 10:38 PM

Unknown S/N: This has only 502 and no Rue Scribe like the above label. It looks like Reilly went back to the 1859-68 generic label often after 1872. The canvas covered case fits with advertisements from the era late 1870's-early 1880's; and the two below labels, one with a dated gun. (no scollops)



315 Oxford st with both 502 and Rue Scribe: 1872-1881: no scollops.



1884 (per gun Serial Number) S/N: 25711
Rib: E.M. REILLY & CO. NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON. AND 2. RUE SCRIBE. PARIS
Label: E.M. Reilly Co.
Gun Manufacturers
502, New Oxford Street
London
For: H. H. Maharana Shree Warhatsingji Loonawara -- Looks like a one-off special label - usually it would be inset into the velvet without a paper label -- or more likely a replace label and possibly case. - note: No scollops.



And another restored SxS in what the seller claims is an original case. Again E.M Reilly & Co..with only 502 and "Gun Manufacturers"...(this is a side-lever hammer gun; no S/N is given. The case looks a little new; perhaps relined years ago making the label a copy. (scollops)



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1882 - 1886 (In Dec 1881 Oxford St. was renumbered. 502 became 277; 315 became 16. Labels still had “GUN MANUFACTURERS”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


His gun trade labels for the most part continued to use 502 or 315 though advertisements used both numbering systems and 277 and 16 became normal on gun ribs.

Label for a Tower Bulldog revolver made by Bentley before Webley took over the Tower trademark about 1882. Interesting - 16 Oxford street, 277 Oxford (post 1881) and rue Scribe (pre-1886). And it paradoxically has the medals from 1867 Universalle...this label can't logically exist in a normal world. (scollops) (except per follow-on post below, Reilly did occasionally use the Paris medals in both ads and trade labels up to 1886).



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1880?? (502, 315 Oxford Street, Rue Scribe) “GUN AND RIFLE MANUFACTURERS”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sometime in the early 1880’s Reilly changed from “Gun manufacturers” to “Gun and Rifle Manufacturers.” In addition in late 1881, 502 was renumbered 277, 315 was renumbered 16. Yet labels and ads often kept the old address for a few years - which address was written on the ribs of guns produced post 1881 or on the labels seems to be haphazard.

(edit: I'm wondering if the addition of "Rifle Manufacturers" might have had something to do with this success in advertising: "Two prominent Victorians were associated with E.M. Reilly. Sir Samuel Baker used a pair of Reilly 10 bores and inspired by Baker, Frederick Courtney Selous took a Reilly 10 bore to Africa on his first venture there. Selous’ gun was stolen shortly after he arrived and so it is mentioned only ruefully, but Sir Samuel’s pair achieved fame through his books. Because Baker was a hero to the Victorians and his books sold well, the fact that he used Reilly guns was a good endorsement. See SN 30363), Number 1 of a pair. Also a lot of London gun makers switched to "Gun & Rifle Manufacturers" at this time.

A couple of labels from royalty cases one with “Gun and Rifle Manufacturers” on the other - only “Gun Manufacturers.”

1883 (per gun Serial Number) (but an 1880 - allegedly - case) S/N: 25161
Rib: E.M. REILLY & CO. NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON. AND 2. RUE SCRIBE. PARIS
Label: E.M. Reilly Co.
Gun and Rifle Manufacturers
502 New Oxford Street
London
(lowest line illegible)
Comment: The case lid exterior is mounted with an ornately carved and engraved frame, with central crowned monogram for Alfonso XII and brass banner pierced with 'CONCURSO DE TIRO DE 1880' (Shooting competition 1880). This is strange - The gun should have been serial numbered in 1883-4. The tale of the gun is a twisted one. Nevertheless, this might be the origin of Reilly’s claim to be a gun maker for H.M the King of Spain. The ad for the gun claims that, “By 1887 his trade labels have the additional acknowledgements of 'By special appointment to His Majesty the King of Spain; His Majesty the King of Portugal; His Majesty the King of the Netherlands.’ “ (this in fact began appearing on his advertisements much earlier - 1876 for King of Portugal; circa 1882 for King of Spain and King of Netherlands).



This label was added to S/N 10354 (1857) when it was redone in the 1880’s or early 1890's. The label is unique - Note “Gun and Rifle Manufacturers”...the 502 Oxford address, and the simplified curlicues seem to find a echo in the 1886 label below although the Font's are different. (no scollops)(internal border just visible).



The Capitol letters "G", "R", & "M" in this label are similar to those in H&H and Watson Bros from the same era: And by the way, label art is in a way addictive...this is a good site with a lot of reproductions and I noticed their descriptions of Reilly reproduction labels recently changed to add date periods...maybe the influence of this DGS line? https://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog/TRADE_LABELS.html



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............Late 1870's-to 1886?? Unique label for 315 Oxford St. on Pistol cases? “Breech Loading Gun & Rifle Manufacturers"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Label for a Webly&Scott revolver. EM Reilly 315 Oxford street. Breech Loading Gun & Rifle Manufacturers: (no internal border)



Identical label on another Webley Scott (no internal border):

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/11/18 12:00 AM

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1884?-1890? (addition of references to royalty to labels) GUN AND RIFLE MANUFACTURES
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In 1876 Reilly advertisements began mentioning making guns for the King of Portugal; by 1882 he'd added King of Netherlands (a quasi-maniac bully) and the King of Spain. 25161 (c1883) with a 1880 case for the King of Spain is one example; 25572 (c1884) with a rib inlaid with gold - E.M Reilly, London and Paris, “To their majesties the kings of Spain and Portugal” is another; (no internal border, no scollops)

1886 (per written note on label) S/N: 26584
Rib:
Label: E.M Reilly & Co.
wholesale and Retail
Gun and Rifle Manufacturers
16 New Oxford Street
London
Branch establishment: Rue Scribe, Paris
Comment: Gun is not extant; SN and date are written on the label. Crests of from left to right “by Special Appointment to H.M. King of Portugal”; “By Special Patent to H.M King of Netherlands”; “by Special Appointment to H.M. King of Spain”.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1890?-1898 (Rue Scribe closed 1886)(16 closed 1898) GUN MANUFACTURERS
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The post 1886 labels - possible 1890? the year EM died?) had 277 and 16 Oxford St. address, no rue Scribe, no mention of royalty, and reverted to calling the firm “Gun Manufacturers.” (no internal border)



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1898-1903 (Rue Scribe closed 1886)(16 Oxford closed 1898)(move from 277 to 295 Oxford in 1903) GUN & RIFLE MAKERS
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Two empty ornamental cases: GUN AND RIFLE MAKERS (not manufacturers) and 277. It could be anytime from 1886-1903 (guns were not included with the cases). - (16 closed 1898; moved from 277 to 295 Oxford 1903) Note that on presentation cases the font hasn't changed since the first one posted above 1859.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1898-1911? GUN MANUFACTURERS (Air Cane)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

One final dramatic label from an air-cane. Cannot read it well but this one is odd. Did Reilly hire a circus poster illustrator for this label? (no internal border, no scollops). (edit: poscript post below shows this label was used 1898-1903 at 277, then at least once (with a handwritten scratch out of 277) at 295 Oxford street, post 1903).



I’ve found no labels with 295 Oxford Street (1903-1911) other than the below posted "carnival label" with 277 struck through and 295 written above it. Wouldn't mind seeing some of the post 1917 Riggs Reilly labels as well. Welcome additions. Oh yes...can anybody read Sanskrit?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............Modern reproductions
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


For comparison - here are two of today's generic reproduction labels - No scollops.
.........Label used 1859-1867 (& 1879-1886??)...............................................................Label used 1868 - 71/72?



And here is a reproduction label. I've never seen an original which doesn't mean anything except I haven't seen it. Reilly's shooting gallery was at 315 Oxford Street...it's mentioned in his advertisements. This label...for whatever gun it was made for - and it may be in fact an advertisement not a trade label - highlights 315. It still has "Fusils a Bascule" on it so I suspect the original to have been made very early after the opening of 315 - circa 1859 (if anyone knows of a gun with this trade label on the case, please let me know about the Reilly gun...this had to come from someplace...two firms are advertising it.):

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/12/18 11:40 PM

===================================================================================================================================
1860 - Reilly and the Volunteers - Yoemanry


This article from an 1860 British publication on the rifles and the Volunteer rifle regiments. The several pages on Reilly's entry in the 1859 trials is historically interesting; Also the militia and home guard had to supply their own weapons and were far more experimental and forward looking than Ordinance.

https://books.google.com/books?id=gVIBAA...lly&f=false











===================================================================================================================================
1860 - 1893 - Reilly and the Volunteers - Yoemanry -2


Reilly sold wholesale to volunteer units...he advertised in the "Volunteer Services Gazette" every week for 30+ years. Here is an example.

14 Jan 1860, "Volunteer Services Gazette"


03 Jun 1993 - "Volunteer Services Gazette"
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/15/18 07:43 PM

===================================================================================================================================
1904 - Reilly agent in Hong Kong


Here is a 1904 mention of Reilly and the 295 Oxford Street address in the Directory and Chronicle of China, Hong Kong, Macao, Corea, Eastern Siberia, etc. - there were agents in the Far East - Lane, Crawford and Co., Hong Kong. So rhere was a Reilly catalog. Somewhere someone has a Reilly Catalog.

https://books.google.com/books?id=WYxEAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA1125&lpg=PA1125&dq=catalogue+at+our+agents,+lane,+crawford&source=bl&ots=POUcdPKrI4&sig=7BI-h_EOrWvqKIYU0lyM25o3qYg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjEzejIiKLZAhXQct8KHR7lDcIQ6AEINjAB#v=onepage&q=catalogue%20at%20our%20agents%2C%20lane%2C%20crawford&f=false




Lane Crawford was founded in 1850 by two Scots In Hong Kong as a sort of Macyi's type buy it all store. It now is into luxury goods all over China. I may write to see if they still have that catalog in their records someplace. Or they might be in the British Library.

===================================================================================================================================
1869-1898 - Reilly agent in America


And here is the American Agent for Reilly for 15 years...Joseph C. Grubb of Philadelphia - ad at the time of the 1876 centennial exposition in Philadelphia:



And since I live near DC and have access to Library of Congress - it just might have some of the Reilly Catalogs..or at least a Grubb one.see below:

"Manufacturers' trade catalogs are a source of much valuable and useful information for those interested in various decorative arts history, the history of design, and trends of various industries. Catalogs chronicle the development of different styles and tastes of the public and can be used to identify articles as well as to provide information on specifications, prices, and types of material used in construction. For the most part, however, trade catalogs have not fared well in libraries. Because of the catalogs' size and frequency of issue, many libraries are unable or reluctant to collect them. For those libraries that are interested, trade catalogs often are very difficult to obtain.
Fortunately, the Library of Congress has a representative collection of trade catalogs that are dispersed throughout the general collections. But because they are listed in the card catalog under many different headings, users interested in accessing them must resort to several strategies in order to find them.

This guide has been prepared to assist those users. The emphasis is on catalogs of 19th and early 20th century American craftsmen and manufacturers. There is a short bibliography on the history of manufacturing in the United States in the 18th and 19th centuries listing useful sources of information on a particular type of manufacture or on manufactures in a particular geographical area. Also listed are some catalogs from the Library of Congress collections for the following types of manufactures: furniture, silver, glassware, and pottery.

Of the sources listed in this guide, almost all are part of the general collections and are either on reference in the Main Reading Room or need to be requested from the stacks. The microform collections are to be requested in the Microform Reading Room. If you need assistance in locating the catalogs included in this guide, please consult a reference librarian."
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/19/18 12:38 AM

==================================================================================================
25711 and Dave getting kicked and back blasted



Photos from the 2003 Vintager's. Dave shooting an 8 bore Reilly. Does anyone happen to know the details on this Reilly? SN, address on Rib, did it have a case? Label? etc. Thanks. (looks to me to be circa SN 16000 about 1871?)



I asked Dave about this and received this response:
"I will always remember shooting that monster! Kick wasn’t untennable but the air concussion was amazing. Unfortunately I have no details on the gun or owner,"

I may already have this 8 bore in the list above but still would welcome any info.

Edit: Mystery solved....not the identity of Scott but of the 8 bore. From the looks of the photo it's 25711, the gun former Maharajah gun posted a couple of times above: See https://jamesdjulia.com/item/1382-396/

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/21/18 10:05 PM

===================================================================================================================================
1825 - 1885 - Reilly and the London Proof House



I've always been curious about when exactly J.C. Reilly became a "gun maker." He opened 12 Middle Row, High Holborn as a silver plate worker/"jeweler in 1814. In 1819 he allegedly entered a plate mark with the goldsmith's in London (unable to locate this mark - there is nothing to verify this unless he used "Charles" and left off Joseph)(apparently being allowed to enter a mark was a rite of passage - you just didn't walk into the silver trade and be allowed to put your initials all over the place). Then there is an 1829 advertisement which identifies him as both a gun maker and a silver plate worker.

However, this document seems to be pretty definitive evidence that by 1825 he was indeed a gun maker. I can't see the images of the plate itself. But here is the print record of the copperplate references to members of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers, London. (the London proof house)..listing Reilly, Joseph Chas - 1825.

https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.278485/2015.278485.A-History_djvu.txt
"THE PROOF PLATE OF THE WORSHIPFUL COMPANY
OF GUNMAKERS





"This copperplate is traditionally supposed to have been stamped with the accepted maker’s identification mark used by a maker when he was admitted as a freeman of the Company. The mark would serve to distinguish his barrels from those sent in to proof by other makers.
..
..
..

"The order of the stamps seems to be roughly chronological, although here and there Lter mprints occur out of order. The short but blurred top line dates back to about 1680, and the last line bears the stamps of gunsmiths of the last decade of the l8th century. In course of time and by the close scrutiny of marks on pieces in collections it may be possible to resolve the riddle set by the plate. I shall be interested to hear from any collector who can trace any of the marks which occur on the plate and are not among the makers’ marks given in this book. The photograph of the plate is reproduced by permission of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers of London.
,,
,,
,, (Reilly references extracted)

1825-40 - Reilly, Joseph Chas. London
1832 - Reilly & Co. London
1850 - Reilly, Edward M. London
Reilly, 1882, London. Breakdown action revolvers of -450 calibre.

Edit: I cannot be sure this list is correct; the file in digital format is unclear.

EDIT: The below site purports to have the names of all members of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers and Reilly's name does not come up. Now whether the site actually has what it purports to have is another question.

https://search.findmypast.com/search-wor...sions-1656-1936
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/25/18 11:10 AM

===================================================================================================================================
1859 - Reilly and the Breech vs Muzzle loader contest


This 1859 book which aspires to objectively analyze the pros ad cons of Muzzle Loaders and Breech Loaders. is interesting: P. 254-292 detailed analysis of Breech loaders at the time and Reilly plays a part (selections posted below). Worth reading...especially the introduction dealing with the uproar and fights between muzzle loading and breech loading fans.

https://books.google.com/books?id=6ftIAA...gun&f=false






And here is the chart of the shoot-off in 1859 - the scales seem tilted towards the muzzle loaders since rapidity and ease of loading is not part of the grading scale; However, the Key point was the breech loader held its own.

Posted by: Daryl Hallquist

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/25/18 01:14 PM

If I manipulate the website correctly, it does not come up with many names. Also, some names it lists come up only in years which are many years past the actual known years of when they worked. For instance it has Purdey starting in 1883 or so.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/26/18 11:33 AM

===================================================================================================================================
1922 - Charles Riggs takes over Reilly


In August 1922 (widely reported on the internet as "1917" which cannot be) a fellow named Charles Riggs bought the Reilly name and marketed guns as "EM Reilly, London." I've identified about 8 guns extant sold as Reillys by Riggs. I bought the Riggs catalog and I'll pass along some observations which may do an injustice to him but these are impressions (and initial impressions only).

Riggs comes across as a small-time sports equipment retali salesman owning a small store; He for years sold BSA products and his store sold guns, motorcycles, bicycles, golf equipment, etc. BSA catalogs are around with his name on the front of them as a distributor/retail sales. Each "department" in the store was a small...almost closet-like.. space.

The photos in the catalog make him out to be something of a con-man. He was an active fellow and it appears something of a self-promotor. He was a sergeant in the Essex Yoemanry and organized reunion dinners from 1915 -1939 and in the process promoted himself to lieutenant. He also claimed to be a "crack shot" and to have shot championship matches at Bisley (but there is no record of him ever winning anything). He's pictured in a military uniform with sergeant stripes, every medal possible on him including a cross of some sort around his neck posing by a table full of trophies. And a picture of a cluttered small desk of the "Managing Director." His firm allegedly was in business for a long time yet the internet turns up almost nothing on him or his store except for a manual on cleaning guns and an offer by him to sell the UK home guard 100 Martini-Henry's with bayonets in 1915. I'll post several photos from the (very poor copy) of the catalog below as examples.

Here is the key point: There are Riggs-Reilly's on the market - I've identified several per the following post. In Europe they sell for a couple of hundred pounds if that. One, however, is currently being offered on a major gun sales site as an "EM Reilly" for a very expensive price. I will just warn our readers to be aware that a Riggs...is NOT an EM Reilly; they were not made by Reilly and a Riggs-Reilly can be identified by a six digit serial number. Haven't a clue who built the guns for Riggs but it might have been BSA given his connections to the firm:

Post 1917? (edit: August 1922) 130000? - 150000+ ("1" added to front of SN's) - Reilly name bought by Charles Riggs who continued to make “E.M. Reilly" guns. It looks like he added a "1" in front of the Reilly series when he took it over, - perhaps starting about (1)37,000? indicating he may have sold up to 15,000 numbered guns. Only a few can be found so far..
134183 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16ga. SxS shotgun. BLNE
136535 - E.M. Reilly..not mentioned. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE.
138279 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 20bore Shotgun SxS. BLE
140415 - E.M. Reilly of London. 16bore shotgun SxS. 30" steel barrels
140451 - E.M. Reilly, London. 16bore Shotgun SxS. (Charles Riggs, post 1917)
144939 - E.M. Reilly, London, 12 bore Shotgun SxS BLNE. 28 barrels.
146242 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London; 12bore. Top lever hammer gun. Pistol grip stock.
150570 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock non-ejector.

Note his comment in the introduction: "All our guns in the future will be named "E.M. Reilly & Co., London" thus adding another 25(pounds) to the value should you ever desire to sell it." (also adding to the price he charged for the guns).
















......................Charles Riggs......................................................................Prince Charles

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/28/18 02:02 PM

There is at least one Reilly catalog available in UK per below. If any of the British readers are in the area of London University, it would be interesting to see that catalog. No idea from the website what age it is. Thanks.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/a0efbe7d-a34b-4135-988f-edbec1ffabee

You are in
103 - London University: University College London (UCL) Special Collections
GB
.....0103 BROUGHAM WB - Brougham Papers: William Brougham, 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux, correspondence and papers
..........This record (browse from here by hierarchy)

Catalogue description
E.M.REILLY & CO

Reference: BROUGHAM WB/E.M.REILLY & CO
Title: E.M.REILLY & CO
Date: undated
Held by: London University: University College London (UCL) Special Collections, not available at The National Archives
Language: English

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/01/18 07:46 PM

==================================================================================================
19286. (early Jan 1875)



VALIDATION OF DATING METHOD: - for the historians.

A dating method for Reilly guns based on serial numbers and known "marker dates" is posted on page 9 above. A dozen more guns have been added to it (in a draft)...no surprises thus the metnodology seems pretty solid. There were doubts, however about the long period between Feb 1868 when he opened rue Scribe and Nov 1881 when the address numbers on Oxford street changed. I've just found 19286 on a British gun board, subject of a 2009 chat. Our above system would date 19286 to very late 1874 or very early 1875.(below excerpt extracted from edited page 9 posting)

1874: 18651 - 19285
18763 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 10 bore. Shotgun SxS. rebounding bar locks, underlever.
18766 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 500BPE. Rifle SxS; Underlever, rebounding hammer gun. (Krakow Kid's gun)
18782 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (no barrels). 12 boe, under lever, hammer gun. Action/stock only
18860 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe. Paris. 4bore Shotgun SxS. underlever, non-rebounding hammergun.
18954 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 500BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever, rebounding hammer gun. (Krakow Kid's gun)
19190 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun? SxS. BP proof, under lever, hammer gun; 1873 Anson Deeley fore end patent 3756. 1868 Purdey chopper lump patent; 24.5” barrels.

1875: 19286 - 19920
19286 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 10 bore. Shotgun SxS. Rebounding hammers
19827 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Side lever hammer gun. (Buffum).
..
..
..
The chat analysis...posted below...while confused like everybody who writes about Reilly by someone's claim (possible Brown?) that Reilly closed rue Scribe in 1872 and reopened it in 1884...results in a spot on conclusion - late 1874 or early 1875. I'll post the conversation here and photos because this is in a way some validation of the dating method and indicates the model is pretty darn accurate.

https://www.internetgunclub.com/archived-forum/posts.php?topicid=1344

I am a new member to this excellent forum and would value some assistance on the aforementioned gun. A little bit of current information;

- 10 bore hammergun, rebounding hammers, breech face in good condition with no pitting; some relatively basic scroll engraving. Table reads "H Walker's 1098 Patent"
- 30 inch Damascus barrels, excellent condition with v minor exterior pitting in some areas. Game/concave rib, wedge and escutcheon fore-end; recently nitro-proofed
- Semi pistol grip stock with original heel plate; some minor marking and one small (1cm) chip out of stock close to action.

Confusingly, the gun has a slight difference in serial numbers; the table reads 19286, the barrels and foreend 19206, the trigger guard 1928 – could the table be a mistaken number? Any help on assessing what the proof marks mean would be most helpful!

Guidance on history, originality and possible value would be greatly appreciated. I would like to use the gun ongoing for ‘fowling so am genuinely keen to find out more. A brief review of the history of Reilly could indicate manufacture between 1869-1872 (due to Paris address), but happy to be proven wrong here.

++++++++++++++response from “Tiger” (hope Lagopus or some of the other UK members known him - the response is excellent)++++++++++++++++++

As far as we know, the Reillys, like most gunmakers, bought the various components and assembled them, or bought almost complete guns "in-the-white", stocked and finished them, and put their name on them. Although this gun has London proof marks, all of it is likely to have been made in Birmingham. Nothing wrong with that, good servicable weapons of better quality than anywhere else in the world for the price. The "Best" quality in a London gun came mainly from the final finishing which added a little to reliability and "feel" but most to beauty / elegance and pride of ownership.

Your gun was a nominal 10 bore but actually measured 11 bore. Lovely damascus barrels bearing the crown over V London View Mark (1637-1954) for preliminary inspection, the crown over bar over GP Provisional Proof Mark (1813-date) to reveal faults before any expensive work was done on the barrels, and the crown over GP London Definitive Proof Mark (1637 to date), all these adding up to Black Powder Proof. The barrel flats have two of these original marks as expected.

The action flats have the expected View mark, and they have the H Walker patent mark for his barrel bolting and safety for drop-down actions patent No 455 of 12 February 1872 ( Use No. 1098 ) .

Of equal importance to the marks are the ones that don't appear e.g. no NOT FOR BALL or CHOKE mark (so see what patterns it throws with various cartridges). The first of these was introduced in 1875, so this and the patent date mean the gun was made definitely not before Feb 72, or after 1875.

It must have been made a couple of years after 1872, say 1874 to early 1875, and we favour the latter because even if the gun was made by a large trade maker, the 1098 use number is quite a large number. You will have noted that neither we nor anyone else really know when the Paris shop closed, we only think it was shortly after 1872.

The gun was re-proved after 2005, we can't read the crossed swords date code and confess to not having the key to these recent codes! The two crowns over SUP are for the Superior Proof Mark for 1200 Bars, 10x76 is 10 bore 76mm chambers; 19.4 is the barrel diameter and crown over BNP is the Birmingham Nitro Proof Mark. Crown over R is the re-proof mark - why it is deemed necessary we don't know!

We think you can take it that the serial number is 19286 and that the engraver was an old man with poor eyesight and and a bad memory. Unlike the other gun we mentioned, we don't think this gun is made up of muddled parts!






Posted by: SXS 40

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/03/18 02:23 AM

Hi,

I have responded to your PM.

SXS 40
Posted by: AlanD

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/03/18 06:54 PM

I am sure this must have been posted before but Cornell Publication have a 24 page Riggs/Reilly catalogue that they sell, from 1924.

https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/item_desc.php?item_id=3510

Regards

AlanD
Sydney
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/03/18 07:55 PM

Thanks Alan...that's where the Riggs catalog excepts above came from - and I'm not sure it's 1924 - I think it's several years earlier. I would really hope that someday, some of the UK guys, could wander over to London University and take a look at that Reilly catalog in the archives.

And by the way I may have the name of the agent in Australia who imported Reilly's. I'll look it up. Do any of the agent's catalogs exist in the museums there?

Hammers Back – Issue No. 14 March 2004
"More luck came my way when I was given the advertisement on page 86/87 in 1866 edition of Walch’s Almanac. Now Walch is a Hobart (Tasmania) firm who have a long history associated with the printing and stationery trade. At that time they were the appointed Tasmanian Agents for E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 New Oxford Street, London, and begged to announce that the Reilly was built “on systems not liable to derangement”. The advertisement shows pair of under-lever pin- fire guns built on the Jones under-lever system in bore sizes 12, 15 17, and 24. Prices ranged from 12 to 35 guineas. "
Posted by: AlanD

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/11/18 12:39 AM

I have not come across any Reilly catalogues in my travels, unfortunately...

Alan
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/12/18 07:22 PM

===================================================================================================================================
1868-1885 - Reilly and 2 rue Scribe, Paris


For history the following will address several questions about Reilly in Paris starting out with location and the name of the manager of his shop:

In February 1868, following his huge success at the 1867 Paris Universalle exposition, Reilly opened a store on 2 rue Scribe, in the Grand Hotel, the just opened prestigious hotel near the Opera. Here is the map of the location. In addition this post will address the multiple claims that he later at some indeterminate time opened a shop at 29 rue du Faubourg Saint Honore, an unlikely occurrence.



The Grand Hotel was opened by Empress Eugenie the wife of Napoleon III in Summer 1862. It was and remains one of the most prestigious hotels in Paris. Reilly’s decision to place his shop there was an indication of business confidence and his business acumen which emphasized location, location, location. Reilly immediately added 2 rue Scribe to his advertisements (the first one found is: PALL MALL GAZETTE, London, 12 Feb 1868: E. M. REILLY and CO., 502 NEW OXFOD STREET, London. Branch Establishments- 315, Oxford-street, London ; and 2, Rue Scribe, Paris) and to his gun ribs (the first one identified is SN 14983). He occupied this store until it was closed in Late July 1885. This is attested to by hundreds of advertisements and dozens of existing serial numbered and non-serialed numbered guns sold with the address on the ribs and on trade labels in the cases. Below is a best estimate of the location of his store.





What happened to the store during the September 1870-Jan 1871 siege of Paris by the Prussians during the Franco-Prussian War is unknown. Then of course the Commune of Paris seized control of the city from March 1871 until its bloody suppression by the French Army under MacMahon in late May 1871. The manager of 2 Rue scribe was likely a fellow named Monsieur Poirat, who in Sept 1871 offered to sell 6,000 Chassepot rifles to the French military government under the 3rd French Republic which replaced Napoleon in Sep 1870. See below entry - 14 Sep 1871 Assemblee National session. Further research is necessary to pin down the identity of Armurier Poirat. (edit: by the way, I've noted that Birmingham Small Arms in 1871 was making Chessepot actions - wonder if this was to have been the source of M. Poirat's guns?). **EDIT: Reilly was prosecuted in October 1870 for sending 2,000 cartridges to his store in Paris clandestinely, which violated British neutrality in the conflict. This may be why Reilly never followed through on selling the Chassepots.



Advertisements to support the above inevitable conclusion that Reilly was at 2 rue Scribe continuously for 18 years can be posted. Alternatively instead of posting 500 advertisements from 1868-85, researchers could just check out the trade label post above.

However, the numerous and wide-spread assertions on the internet by virtually everyone who has written about Reilly in the past must be first addressed that
...1) He closed Rue Scribe in the early 1870's then miraculously reopened it at the identical location 10 years later. - this has been taken care of above and this claim is erroneous.
...2) That at some point he opened a shop at 29 rue du Faubourg, St. Honore...which is addressed below.

===================================================================================================================================
1880's - Reilly and 29 rue du Faubourg, St. Honore, Paris


...2) and at some point he allegedly opened a store at 29 rue du Faubourg Saint Honore. This claim is so wide-spread (perhaps started by Nigel Brown in British Gunmakers, v.I?) that it has become an "urban truth." However, not a single advertisement with this address, a gun with that address on a rib, a trade label has been found in the two years of this research into Reilly. If anyone knows how this started or can support a claim that Reilly ever had a shop on this street please post the evidence.

Rue du Faubourg Saint Honore has been a prestigious street since its incorporation into the Parisian city limits in the early 19th century. Today it is ground zero for Fashion - Hermes, Jacombe, Chanel, etc. But there was at least one Armurier located at 24 rue du Faubourg in the late 19th-early 20th century (Pirlet) so one supposes perhaps Reilly could have had a store-fromt there for a little while at some time or another. Note, however, that the address is a hotel...there are two store windows on either side of the entrance and one in 1880 was occupied by an English tailor. In the 1930's Coco Chanel had one of her apartments at the hotel - the suite above the door.

1901 photo of rue du Faubourg Saint Honore. 24 rue du Faubourg (location of Armurier Pirlet) is the first store on the right of the photo (where the two women are standing; the one with the Venetian looking 3rd floor). 29 rue du Faubourg would be 50 yards down the street on the left. 24 rue du Faubourg burned down in 1903 to be replaced by the current building occupied by Hermes.



This is 29 rue du Faubourg (allegedly once a Reilly location) today....there are two store fronts on left and right of entrance:



This is a view of a bill from John Hopper from 1880. He was an English tailor located at 29 rue Faubourg. The logo on the bill is from the 1878 exposition universelle in Paris. I considered that perhaps Reilly met Hopper there and at some point Hopper might have acted as a mail drop for Reilly. There is nothing more in history about Hopper however, and somehow this seems unlikely. (Note the Coco Chanels apartment above the hotel entrance):



As mentioned above there was at least one gun shop (Armurier Pirlet) located on that street at 24 rue du Faubourg, where "a dozen artisans" worked. So theoretically it's possible another armurier (Reilly) might have been located nearby.



The above photos show that it is unlikely but vaguely possible that Reilly somehow could have had a shop on rue du Faubourg if one accepts that he never used the address in advertisements or on guns. It was a prestigious location which Reilly would have liked. But this seems very far-fetched. So if anyone has any info confirming this location as a Reilly address, please post the evidence. Otherwise and until proven, this should be regarded as an "internet legend."

Edit: Roy Forssburg in "Answers" provided a long history of Reilly a few years ago. He said it had taken him 10 years to compile (before the internet)... It was until now the best recounting of Reilly history; yet there were errors in it. He had this post: "1883... A trade label of this period shows “16, New Oxford Street, 277, Oxford Street & 29, Rue Du Fabourg, St Honore, Paris.” (sic). If Roy reads this, please provide access to the case label/trade label. It may be unique.
http://www.answers.com/Q/Where_can_you_f...on_serial_15346
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/17/18 04:15 PM

===================================================================================================================================
1868 - 1890 - Reilly and Emperor Napoleon III


Continuing the Reilly in Paris theme - In this post I’ll attempt to provide more clarity to the Reilly claim to have provided guns to Napoleon III of the 2nd French empire.

Here is are typical Reilly Advertisements with this claim ("FOURNISSEURS BREVETES DE S.M L'EMPEREUR"). The ads appeared from 1868 to 1871. They didn’t last long - Napoleon III was captured by the Prussians at Sedan 4 Sep 1870 and the 3rd French Republic was declared immediately thereafter. The ads with the claim, however, continued to appear in travel guides in 1871 and 1872…they evidently had been written and printed before the Sedan disaster.



Now what guns did Reilly provide to “Son Majestie l’Empereur” (his majesty the Emperor)?” Here’s a clue from this board.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...=true#Post99057

David Trebalien (crossedchisels) had the history and one of the guns; Dr. Drew posted the pictures. Here is David’s comment: “Thanks to Dr Drew, Once again for posting the 20bore E M Reilly, I have the 12b also Cased with allLoading Goodies. The letter along with the 2 Guns is, European Royalty and the Reilly Invoice shows just how Mr Sturtevant of Newport R.I.U.S.A. brought the Guns to America.I am not the owner, just the Researcher/Cleaner/Photo'Snapper".The Empress Euginie, Mother of Napoleon lll. Used the 20b Quite Often' I hope to get the story into "ONE of the Glossie's...Some Grand Photos. The Guns are the Quality expected from London Best Makers of the period. The stripped-down photos will show this...DirtyDave /cc”.

I’ve written Dave to try to get more info (Eugenie was wife not mother). Dr. Drew had this label on file but no other pics; It was SN 17536 (per chart on page 9, 1871 - a 12 bore SxS muzzle loader - instructions printed on the label - Reilly addresses at 502 Oxford Street and 2 rue Scribe on the label. - Handwriting is in English not French.
1871 of course is after the fall of the 2nd empire making the claim that this gun was given or sold to the Emperor's family a bit suspect!!! Still Reilly retained the medals he won at the 1867 Paris Universelle on his trade labels and ads for 1871 and for some ads 1872. The Emperor died in 1872. ),



And here is 1868 Reilly publicity in a French catalog which has possibly the worst advertising poem in the history of commercial ditty’s. However, it has a revealing quote from journalist-writer/politician Anatole de la Forge, which I’ll translate, then the poem makes grandiose claims, takes a swipe at Purdey and other “establisment” London gunmakers. Then goes on to declare an intention to (I think) conquer the American market.



Translation: “Extract from the magazine “Le Siecle” the Century), December 26th 1867. Among the English private industrial products (at the Paris Universelle exposition of 1867), one finds a series of arms with the most beautiful finish and an execution beyond compare. Amongst the first rank are these admirable shotguns and hunting rifles from the house of E.M Reilly and Co., and we applaud the decision by the jury which awarded to this house the gold medal of honor.”

Tis for PRESENTATION that they meet renown,
Those in '67 at Paris shown………………………………………… 1
And did the whole England outshine
Were purchased for the Grand Duke Constantine
In part, and the rest Count Orloff are thine;
…………………..……2. Russians and no fake news here
To sole Empire in Europe they attain,………………………….……3
They've now an establishment beside the Seine,…………………4
There they stand, Sol irradiated Tor!
They've been commission'd to supply the Emperor………………5
Some fitted up they gorgeously adorn
For eastern princes at the rising morn………………………………6
But that which Freemen of the West require
Is Science and Art borne even higher;
— No objection to good Damascened designs,…………………..7
For those together blended fame assigns
A place-beyond all we in London know
To Messrs. E.M. Reilly & Co.
What other houses charge sixty-five pounds
For, and keep you four or five months (which astounds)
,…………8 (take that Purdey)
In waiting for; one exactly the same
For which only £45 they claim —
Having it ready too in thirty days
Or less, for which they merit highest praise………………………..9
Exactly the same I’ve already said
The Gun shall be, by my Art-Heroes made,
But only here to give what’s rightly due
You may be able thus to strike more true;
No anxiety need the nations feel
Who with our intelligent firm would deal,
For I’ve them in their mode of business track’d — ………………10
Their works found for any clime ready pack’d,
Then again independently of this
Their assortment in the metropolis
Is all unrivaled, wherefrom to select,……………………………….11
Our Delegates witness that I’m correct,
Here they purchased Guns for Presentation;
For such our firm’s renown’d to our nation
Uprising in the West I introduce them,…………………………….12
Their Guns may each be styled science’ gem
I bear them o’er th’ main, for ’tis my belief
Each Pioneer Family to be its Chief,
Could not a present more acceptable…………………………….13
Give, thus on th’ reciprocal principle
And amicable, may I rank Donor
Thro’ those who won the Medal of Honor,……………………….14
Where arts myriads of th’ world had striven,
Th’ pledge of immortality was given
In the mental battle of nations ’67,………………………………..15
On the bona fide Manufacturers
The practical and active firm, confers
Th’ bard this lay triumphant, from all beneath
The sky of England, Bay and Laurel Wreath,
Even as they rank in all great Britain 1st,
Be their deeds in highest literature rehearsed;
To many reams are their productions sent
They’re well represented at the Orient,
And I will place them far above the rest
In the great market of the Boundless West……………………..16

 
1. "'67 at Paris" - refers to the medals he won an the Paris Universelle Exposition



2, Were purchased for the Grand Duke Constantine; In part, and the rest Count Orloff are thine;: It looks like he sold his entire 1867 Paris Universelle exposition stock of guns to two Russian Grandees...Grand Duke Constantine Nikolayevich Romanoff and Count Nikolay Alexandrovich Orloff.  Grand Duke Constantine was an accomplished man and the second son of Czar Nikolas I. Count Orloff, of the famous Orloff family, was Russian Ambassador to Belgium from 1860-70 (when Russia along with Britain guaranteed Belgian independence) and then Paris (1870-82), both very sensitive diplomatic posts. Reilly could have claimed to have provided guns to the Russia Tsar's.

..........................Grand Duke Constantine Nikolayevich...................................Count Nikolay Alexandrovich Orloff



3. "Sole Empire in Europe" is a mystery.  Napoleon III had declared a "French Empire" in Dec 1852.  But there was an Austrian Empire which became Austro-Hungarian Empire in 1867 and a Russian Empire at that time. And an Ottoman Empire though Europeans would hardly consider it "European." (Classic definition of "European" is - participation in the Crusades, reformation and 30 years' War.)



4, The reference to the "establishment by the Seine" refers to the opening of 2 Rue Scribe (Feb 1868).   (see post above re rue Scribe)

5. "commission to supply the Emperor" must be origin of his claim in Reilly advertisements for a couple of years 1868-70-1 to be a supplier of guns to Napoleon III and that's where David's gun references come in - more below.  

........................President then Emperor Lewis Napoleon III........................................Empress Eugenie


6. "For eastern princes at the rising morn": Reilly had an office in Calcutta and an agent in Madras and sold numerous presentation guns to Indian Rajah’s.

......SN 16139 (Douglas Tate's Double Gun Journal article 1994).................................................SN 12532 (See chart for date)


7. "good Damascened designs": Reference to Reilly Damascus barrels

8. What other houses charge sixty-five pounds; For, and keep you four or five months (which astounds) This is a clear swipe at Purdey and the English gun establishments - “They’ll charge you 60 pounds for a gun and you’ll have to wait months.” (A few months earlier in London, Purdey had sent an arched-eyebrow note to Reilly's store at 315 New Oxford - next door to Purdey - objecting to some words by a Reilly salesman, who apparently had told a buyer that a gun in Reilly's store was proofed by Purdey but was half the price because of no Purdey name (or did the salesman say the customer could get a gun at Reilly's which was as good as a Purdey but for half the price?) (from Terry Weiland's excellent article "Reilly of Oxford Street" in 2014 Gun Digest). This little dig was probably Reilly's come-back.

9. In waiting for; one exactly the same; For which only £45 they claim — ;Having it ready too in thirty days; Or less, for which they merit highest praise. i.e.: Reilly will charge a quarter less and you’ll get it in less than 30 days!

10. For I’ve them in their mode of business track’d —; This lays out the Reilly business model in spades - he was not trying to “be Purdey” as John Cambell claimed in his 2015 piece in Double Gun Journal…he planned to undercut the prestige makers in price, deliver the goods 6 times as fast and give a really quality product at the same time, making up for less profit per gun by (relative) volume of sales. (Reilly at this time and throughout the 1870's sold three times as many numbered guns as Purdey along with massive traffic in licensed and used guns.)

11. Is all unrivaled, wherefrom to select: Extolls the selection a buyer can find at the Reilly stores in London.

12. Uprising in the West I introduce them. Plans to expand into the American Market

13. Each Pioneer Family to be its Chief,; Could not a present more acceptable. A perfect present for the head of a pioneer family

14. Thro’ those who won the Medal of Honor. Refers to the 1867 Paris Universelle gold medal

15. Again refers to the Paris Universelle

16. And I will place them far above the rest; In the great market of the Boundless West. Go West young man. Within a year he had an American Agent - Joseph C. Grubb & Co. in Philadelphia…and he was one of three English Breech-loaders listed in the 1871 Johnson Great Western Gun Catalog:

1871 J. H. Johnston Great Western Gun Works catalog:
Muzzle loader = sold as ‘English’, ‘Belgian’, ‘American’, only Greener is called out by name
Breech loader = Greener, Westley Richards, E. M. Reilly & Co

Notice that Grubb ranks Reilly with Purdey, Greener, Westley Richards, Scott...and does NOT include him in the "cheaper English guns."



And the end of Napoleon III and Reilly's claim to an attachment to the Royal family - Sedan September 1870 (Notice how much Bismark looks like US Grant in his dress):

Posted by: SXS 40

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/17/18 08:04 PM


Argo44, You really need to write a DGJ article, and maybe a book.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/17/18 08:25 PM

===================================================================================================================================
1840's - Reilly and the pepperpot (facetious)


Getting there....slowly. slowly Reilly, a very prominent gun maker of the 19th century emerges from the shadows and there are enough guys here who shoot Reilly's who can attest to their quality.

Actually I suggested an article to Dan Cote at DGJ via e-mail pointing out that the last article on Reilly in 2015 had some errors in it...heard nothing back. Douglas Tate who is a gun magazine editor suggested I write something for his magazine but there is so much. I think the key research is dating the guns...from that comes history, labels, and verification of frauds....that would be a relatively easy article to write with a fold out reference sheet for auction houses and gun dealers to use. But maybe a book would be more in order...the more I get into the subject.

And I find his relationship to the 19th century period (oh heck to the era of that famous reprobate FLASHMAN)...fascinating. (And Flashmen allegedly knew all these people - Bismark, Napoleon III, Slept with the Empress, was at Rorke's Drift, Charge of the Light Brigade, met Orloff....the greatest, funniest, bawdiest and - while fiction - maybe most psychologically accurate history of British imperial expansion in the 19th century). (I'd bet that pepperpot in Flashman's hand was sold by Reilly, except it was before the 3rd Sikh war..pre-1847 Reilly move to 502 Oxford Street and I haven't found any Reilly pepperpots with 316 High Holborn on the rib) -
HOLD ON - WAIT A MINUTE - ERROR...see below.




A Reilly's six shot 'pepperpot' pistol, c.1850 (Date obviously wrong-with that address it's pre 1847), the barrel tips engraved with stiff leaves, struck with proof marks with underfire ring trigger,
profusely engraved action inscribed 'Reilly 316 Holborn, London, J. R. Cooper's patent', barrel 8.5cm overall 19.5cm
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...fc-a4480112aa71

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/19/18 04:55 PM

===================================================================================================================================
1825 - 1912 - Reilly's business model


Reilly’s business model from the first days of the firm was clear and spelled out numerous times in numerous ways.
— Put out an excellent high-quality gun
— Respond with alacrity to orders
— Beat everybody’s prices.

The poem in the advertisement above claims he could fill a high-quality order in under 30 days while the “establishment”..the Purdey’s, Holland and Holland’s, took months and later even years. So how did he do this? How did he fill orders in three weeks for the prices he charged undercutting everyone yet with the exquisite quality and delicate balance that is the Reilly hallmark? It’s not for nought that when I first touched the Reilly I bought, the one which started this researchSN 34723, it felt like a rapier and everything else like battle axes. The answer to this question may also answer the question of whether Reilly “manufactured” his own guns.

A lot has been written about Reilly and others being supplied barrels, actions, etc. “in the white” from Birmingham. Reilly owners have noted similarities with Westley Richards, Webley, W.C. Scott. One writer noticed that some Reilly actions were identical to those built by Birmingham genius maverick Thomas Brian (from Terry Weiland’s excellent article “Reilly of Oxford”, 2014 Gun Digest). Reilly like many London gun makers at the time was not an innovator. Reilly’s only took out two patents, both military related (one in 1840 for a mortar bomb and one in 1869 for an explosive bullet)(I'll post those some day because I have them). Yet he successfully marketed beautiful guns on the cutting edge and is widely acknowledge as being amongst first three London gun makers to seize onto the LeFracheaux center-break gun concept.

In addressing his business model, here are a few facts:

1). Reilly did not serial number guns he did not “build.” This has been firmly established by this line. He Serial Numbered about 30,000 guns pretty much chronologically with the breaks noted in 1847 and the off shoot numbering by J.C. Reilly the “7000 series” mentioned above. By “build” he had to have made them….even if he used parts in the rough from others.

2). Reilly’s (father and son) engraving, from the time he was a jeweller/plateworker is almost immeditately recognizable for its style and quality. Almost exclusively with designs and roses - no animals, dogs, ducks or hunters. And he engraved everything that came in the door, bayonets, swords, Colt, Trantor, Adams revolvers, 1853 Enfields, Martini-Henry’s, etc. etc.



3). Reilly’s stocks were subjects of comments even in his own time and today are almost immediately recognizable. He was one of the first to use French Walnut and to see a Reilly poorly restocked is like looking at a Leonardo poorly framed.



4). In the 1881 census, according to Brown (and I have not seen these census records - so this is secondary sourcing), Reilly claimed to be employing 300 workers which included engravers, finishers and stockers. There has been a lot of hemming and hawing and harrumphing trying to reconcile this figure with a pre-conceived notion that Reilly didn’t make guns.

5). Reilly was known to stockpile barrels at least after EM’s death.
.........-- On this line Toby Barclay mentioned that he had sold SN 35079, a 12 bore. SxS SLE shotgun. It was numbered circa 1900-1901 yet Toby remarked that the barrels were proofed pre-1896.



..........-- Also per above, Terry Lubzinski's 12 bore is SN 303xx and should have been numbered about 1891, yet the barrel has "Not for Ball" which went out in 1887.



6). Reilly advertised having a shooting range where prospective customers could fire at targets 300 yards away - no one has ever found that range but unlike the anguish about his “factory” no one seems to question its existence.

May 1851 advertisement relating to the Crystal Palace exposition:


Inevitably a conclusion must be reached that the 1881 census is indeed correct:
1. Reilly stockpiled barrels,
2. stockpiled actions,
3. finished his own guns,
4. stocked the guns himself,
5. and engraved his own guns.
6. The grace and artistry of his guns are his own - but he was aware of this talent too - see the poem above and his immodest mention of “art heroes,” And by the way the French were too…Here are quotes from French articles at the time claiming that Reilly’s genius came from his contact with France via rue Scribe.



"Almost all the shooters used English guns of large caliber. We saw in their hands magnificent arms signed Purdey, A & Ch. Lancaster, Grant and certainly E.M. Reilly, that English gun maker who has been established at rue Scribe for two years in Paris itself. The guns of M. Reilly have gained a lot from contact with and a taste for Parisian art, and have acquired a finish, a perfection in wood, an elegance that one does not always find in English made arms...."



"This year I saw at the Game Fair a hammer gun with round action from the 1870's signed by the London gun maker Reilly & Co., of an elegance combined with a delicateness of finish and a solidity of fabrication, which placed it at the level of the best gun of no matter what of the last century,"

I’m going to follow-up on this, especially expanding on the question of engraving - because at the time engraving was artisanal; everybody did it and they were not paid a lot for it.

But one thing Reilly owners can do to test this theory is to take a look at the date their barrels were proofed (if they were a Reilly product - they were proofed in London) and compare these dates to the dates the guns were serial numbered (see my chart on page 9 above). Terry Buffum has handled more Reilly’s than any man alive and I’d appreciate his opinion. Harry (HWK) - SXS40 has about 8 of Terry’s Reillys dating from 1856 to 1888 and could probably reinforce the theory just by looking in his gun closet.



I want to add this from his 1862 London exposition entry. Reilly guarantees the guns he makes. Later in the 1880's his ads guarantee everything he sells. But this ad is perhaps telling; the 50 yard range was at 315 New Oxford Street:

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/20/18 01:58 PM

===================================================================================================================================
Thoughts on engraving


Before I lose this chat again, this is an interesting comment from the site "Engravers Cafe" on engravers from the 19th century by a poster "Highveldt," which is relevant to the above discussion on Reilly finishing his own guns. It was a comment on Terry Weiland's article on engraving in which Terry sort of said engraving was really used as a type of "stove paint."

https://books.google.td/books?id=de9XBAA...int&f=false

The chat was funny but very informative:
http://www.engraverscafe.com/archive/index.php/t-10485.html?s=cfbe6b81099c03ea2457b7cbdbf3f47e

Engraving is like....stove paint? I don't think that is what he said. Who knows what a so called gun writer ever means, but here is what he said: "The truth is, a bulino-engraved gun will never look as good as the day it comes out of its protective box. Every scratch and bump will deface the engraving until it looks like a flyspecked lithograph in a cheap saloon. At which point a coat of stove paint might not be a bad idea."

I do not care much for Mr. Weiland's writings, even though I have some of his books. Weiland quotes some of Mr. Greener's opinions about the gun trade in this article--a person I do not think I would have liked in his day. Although Mr. Greener was not found guilty of stealing the Anson & Deeley action design in court, many tradesmen of his day as well as I in this day think that he did steal it.

Weiland raises a point about the changes in valuation of engraving on a gun in UK. I am a English gun restorer and only a learner engraver (in order to repair some engraving on guns I restore). Engraving and engravers were just another craft/trade in the time of the E.M. Riley shotgun Weiland references. For example: E.J. Churchill sends a note and a set of barrels over to the excellent engraver Mr. Sumner on the morning of March 18, 1904 with the note reading: "Barrels of 1398 (gun number) To name (engrave the Churchill name and address), rough rib & engrave it these must be here tonight as they have to be blacked & go away tomorrow morning certain. Please Oblige; signed E.J. Churchill" From this note we can assume the Barrel blacker worked all night to get the barrels blacked for the customer gun to be shipped, as it usually takes 5 or 6 blacking cycles for a barrel to be completed--the blacker probably did not finish until late the next day.

In most shops, including the London best shops of Purdey, Holland, Boss, Stephen Grant and so forth engravers earned about the same as a head barrel maker, stocker and actioner. In 1875 Freedrick Beesley (later inventor of the Beesley spring opener action and which has been used by Purdey ever since they purchased the rights from Beesley in 1880) made 4 pounds six pence for the month, while J. Mace Sr., Engraver made about the same. During the same month J. Lucas, Purdey's famous engraver who developed the Purdey house style of engraving made the astounding amount of 8 pounds---This was twice the amount of wages to paid to any other Purdey craftsman.

In March 1936 at Purdey's J. Lovett, Engraver was paid 3 pounds, 8 shilling and 4 pence, while the famous Purdey actioner Ernest D. Lawrence was paid 3 pounds, 5 shillings.

However at the end of November 1952 Ernest D. Lawrence was earning 12 pounds, 9 shillings as an actioner and the young apprentice Ken Hunt, Engraver earned 3 pounds 5 shillings.

We all should rejoice that the demand in best quality English, Italian, German, Belguim and other shotguns (primarily demand driven by American buyers) has changed the fate and earnings of not only engravers, but the skilled gunmaker trades.

These are just some rambling thoughts of an old man who loves fine guns, mostly fine English guns.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/27/18 04:24 PM

===================================================================================================================================
1835 - 1898 - Reilly and airguns - repost


With nothing to do, in the middle of nowhere for a few weeks. I picked up a Sherlock Holmes Anthology and re-read "The Adventure of the Empty House"...the 1st story in the return of Holmes after his supposed death. A cracking good story...and since Col. Sebastian Moran tried to kill Holmes with an air-rifle (an event that Harry Flashman also participated in if you believe Flashman and the Tiger), I thought I'd repost the line on EM Reilly Air-Canes since the photos to it have been held hostage by an extortionist's website.



And by the way, Lewis and Clark carried an air-gun with them on their 1804-06 trek across America. It's in the NRA museum here in the DC area.



I'm going to do two things this time 1) explain why I think EM Reilly published his treatise on air guns in late 1847-early 1848 and not 1850 as is everywhere reported on the internet; 2) date the canes by the usual method of name on the gun/cane but also by the labels in the cases, an advantage of having dated the trade labels per above (understanding that the names the Reilly's put on their non-serial numbered firearms often varied).

Reilly's both were heavily into air canes and air-rifles throughout the 1830's-40's. as early as 1843 Reilly began advertising for "Improved Air Canes" by "Reilly Jnr" (Edward M. Reilly) - (and by the way, the company is advertised as "Reilly, Gun maker"...not J.C. Reilly, etc. I've never noticed this before and need to check out when this began).

...........09 Dec 1843, "London Illustrated News."


I'll also post this ad from "London Illustrated News," 24 Apr 1847 - which advertises Reilly, mentions "Reilly Jnr" and air canes ,and their brand new address at 502 New Oxford Street (note the name used on the ad - "Reilly"); and the advertisement clarifies the address: "Removed from 316 Holborn".



Which sets the stage for comments about EM Reilly's Treatise on Air Guns. Here is the reprinted cover.



Edward M. identified himself as “Reilly, Junr” (as in the 1843 advertisement above and in the 1847 ad after the move to Oxford Street)….The address of the firm on the title page is No. 502, New Oxford Street, “removed from 316 Holborn,” London. This phrase “removed from 316 Holborn” is telling. The Reilly’s quit using the "removed from Holborn" phrase in ads less than a year after the move, by the end of December 1847 per the dated serial numbers on guns and advertisements.

======================================================
Xxxxx August 1835 - March 1847. possible 1843?

Name: J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBURN, LONDON
Description: This cane rifle consists of two parts painted black enamel which measures just under 38 inches including the screw on horn handle. The center joint ring is marked "REILLY 316 HOLBORN LONDON IMPROVED". The pump is screwed onto the upper portion to fill the chamber with air. The pump consists of an iron tube with brass ends and a screw on iron handle for the pump. The tube is marked "J.C. REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON". The lower portion of the cane houses the breech and firing mechanism. After the chamber is "pumped up", the two pieces are screwed together and the muzzle end has a brass tip which screws off and the attached wooden barrel plug comes out. The breech is opened by a sliding lever and is loaded with a round bullet through a round hole on top of the shaft. A key is then used to cock it and a small post "trigger" pops out of the side. The trigger is simply pushed to fire the rifle. The barrel is rifled and gauges at 38 caliber. It is equipped with a small blade front and notched rear sights.

Comment: The "Improved" engraving leads me to associate this cane with the above 1843 advertisements...
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/55/64/reilly-co-edward-m-air#detail



======================================================
Xxxxx August 1835 - March 1847

Name: J.C. REILLY, 316 HOLBORN, LONDON
Description: .41 CAL; RIFLED BBL, BORE GOOD, BLACK PAINTED FINISH, HORN CANE HANDLE, COMES WITH ORIGINAL PUMP, FIXED SIGHTS, ROUND BALL LOADS INTO A ROTATING BREACH, BUTTON TRIGGER, COCKING KEY INCLUDED, MAKER'S MAHOGANY TAKE DOWN CASE, BRASS MUZZLE PROTECTOR

Comment: This is the only Reilly pre-1847 move to New Oxford street label that Ive ever seen. It's fitting it's in an air cane case - that case stayed in closets.
https://ellwoodepps.com/joesph-charles-reilly-air-gun-cane.html
Comment:



======================================================
Xxxxx 1848 - 1855

Name: REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET,
Description: 1
Comment: This label was used from 1848 to 1855 when two medals were added on either side of "London." The "take-down stock" for the air-cane is amazing, apparently covered in pebble worked leather.
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...4f-a41800b08eda



======================================================
7801 ?? circa 1855. (the date in the advertisement is clearly wrong)

Name: REILLY, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: REILLY LONDON A RARE CASED 28-BORE PERCUSSION COMBINATION WALKING-STICK GUN serial no. 7801. circa 1845 comprising of a 28 3/4in. re-browned octagonal damascus rifle barrel signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON` (renewed) small dove-tailed crescent fore-sight blued standing notch rear-sight with one folding leaf a 29 3/4in. re-browned damascus round shot barrel with octagonal breech section (unsigned) and an unsigned octagonal 32-bore 3in. re-browned damascus pistol barrel (probably a later addition) matching period London proofs together with a percussion under-hammer squared boxlock action with guarded trigger the top-tang signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON`

Comment: I believe this Reilly air cane serial number, unlike the others, is authentic and is in the "J.C. Reilly 7000 series" which he began to use to differentiate himself from EM after they moved to 502 New Oxford Street in late March 1847 and which continued until c1858. The label is the one used from 1848-1855. I'd date the cane based on the label and SN as latter part of 1855.
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...f6-a4340134dc99




to be continued
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/27/18 06:34 PM

======================================================
Xxxxx 1848-55


Comment: Classic 1848-55 label
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...c7-a78300d31617



======================================================
Xxxxx 1855-59


Comment: Label used 1855-59 with "Reilly" and the 1851 and 1855 exposition medals.
http://www.vintageairguns.co.uk/air-canes/?occur=1&album=47&photo=1748



======================================================
Xxxxx 1859 +

Name: E.M.Reilly &Co., New Oxford St.,London
Description: This is a totally complete 1850's Cane Air Gun including it's original pump and cocking key. The pump and the cane are signed "E.M.Reilly &Co., New Oxford St.,London. The cane looks to be about .36 cal. and retains it's original brass rod and cap.  It also has a front and rear sight.  The head of the cane has some wonderful scrimshaw work consisting of 3 panels . One Admiral Nelson in his full naval officers garb. The second one is a family coat of arms,which I'm told is the Prince of Wales. The third is  the battleship Victory.The head is made out of Alabaster and there's a minor chip on the top . E.M Reilly was famous for his caneguns and wrote"Treatise on Air Guns" in 1850.  The  gun works just fine . It holds it's charge when pumped up and cocks and fires . A really great and complete nautical Cane Air Gun. This outfit would fit equally well in a firearms, nautical or scrimshaw collection. Rarely seen for sale.

Comment: EM began to be used on gun ribs in 1859. Edward M. and E.M. were occasionally used on non serial numbered guns before 1859.
https://www.johnjhayeshistoricalcollectibles.com/proddetail.php?prod=e4



======================================================
Xxxxx 1859 +

Name: E.M REILLY, LONDON
Description: A 100-BORE PNEUMATIC AIR CANE 
SIGNED E.M. REILLY, LONDON, THIRD QUARTER OF THE 19TH CENTURY 
With sighted rifled brass barrel with rotating loading-drum, button-trigger and aperture for the cocking-key (key and muzzle-cap missing), signed on the case-hardened inner face at the join between the barrel and reservoir, dark horn handle, and retaining much original wood-effect painted finish throughout; together with AN 80-BORE BUTT-RESERVOIR AIR PISTOL, with turn-off two-stage barrel, scroll engraved brass action with iron 'flintlock' mechanism, and brass reservoir. The first 37¾in. (96.9cm.) long (2)
Comment: EM began to be used on Serial Numbered ribs in 1859. This may or may to apply to air guns.

Comment: The air canes sell for more than the Shotguns.
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/a-100-bore-pneumatic-air-cane-signed-em-5509870-details.aspx



======================================================
Xxxxx 1859-67

Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: A great cased air gun cane curio by E.M.Reilly of London. It comes with its own original wood case with an address label for "E. M. Reilly & Co" and there is a list of contents prepared by an earlier owner/seller. The list reads: "Reilly walking stick air rifle, about .40 brass bbl., multi-groove rifling, bore about perfect. Very powerful, complete with mold, pump, cocking key, extra valve, etc. When fully pumped up, these will shoot 20-30 shots full power, Breech loading. Weight 3 1/2 Pounds. Thumb trigger. Probably made about 1850." (A written description of air guns by Dike on page 357 of Cane Curiosa mentions E. M. Reilly of London, as a noted air gun maker and inventor. Additionally 35/6 shows a very similar cased piece by another maker.)

Comment: Classic 1859-1868 label which also was used (with variants from about 1879 to 1886). The Action house date is wrong.
https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/11244082_a-cased-air-gun-cane-curio-by-emreilly-of-london

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/28/18 02:16 PM

======================================================
Xxxxx 1859 - 1867

Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: Cased .36-caliber English Cane Gun . . . circa 1849  by E.M. Reilly & Company. Until the 1800s, specialist carvers, metal workers, and artisans produced canes and walking sticks by hand. However, the popularity of fashion and gadget canes fueled a market for their mass manufacture and subsequently helped lead to their demise. Canes became less artistic and reflective of current fashions.

Comment: 1859-68 label. If the label is correct, the auction house is off by 10-15 years in their dates.
http://www.greendragonsociety.com/Weaponry/Weaponry_Main_page.asp



======================================================
Xxxxx 1859 +


Comment: Cannot read the label. The name on the cane is E.M Reilly which normally indicate it was made after 1859. The Reillys, however, did put different variants on their firearms which were not serial numbered.
https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/air-canes/e-m-reilly-air-cane/



======================================================
Xxxxx 1868 +

Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET, LONDON (502, NEW OXFORD STEET on case label)
Description: This is a rare, cased, Air Cane. Made of brass & steel it unscrews into 2 sections and when assembled measures 36" overall. The barrel section has a clean bore with crisp rifling (1cm at the muzzle approx. AA shot). The barrel section features a tiny blade foresight and 'V' notch steel rear sight.
The weapon fires moulded lead balls inserted in the barrel section at the loading port which has a small bolt feature. It is armed by means of its steel and brass air pump and fired by means of a steel winged trigger which is inserted into the underside of the rifle and twists to fire. The pump and trigger are present. The body of the pump is nicely marked by the manufacturer 'E.M. Reilly & Co, Oxford Street, London' (illustrated).

Comment: Classic 1868-72/3 label with the medals won at the 1867 Paris Universelle Exposition and the three addresses - Paris one is defaced, possibly by rubbing against a cane part?
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...1a-a5f00113573f





======================================================
Xxxxx 1868 +

Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description:

Comment: Note Paris Exhibition Medals 1867. There were three address but the Rue Scribe, Paris address has been deliberately obliterated. Somebody lost a girlfriend it looks like.…. Reilly Damascus work on the barrel?
http://www.network54.com/Forum/681456/thread/1362405040/4/A



======================================================
Xxxxx 1836-58?


And if anyone knows who bought these two canes, we'd like to see photos.
7. If the first has Joseph Reilly's name on it...it is not 1880...It has to be pre-1858 at least..and we need to see the label.
8. Ditto to the second with EM Reilly on the cane and label. Need to see photos of both.




======================================================
Xxxxx 1902-1904 +


Comment: This is the strange almost Circus-like label that is unique up to this point. It's difficult to read - but it is EM Reilly making it later than 1859. The attachable stock looks Reily-esque. (The label is now identified as 277 Oxford street and 295 Oxford Street = 1903-4; See label addendum below).
http://www.vintageairguns.co.uk/air-canes/?occur=1&album=47&photo=1425

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 04/03/18 04:23 PM

Here are a few miscellaneous items I've found or are still working on which I'll post here for posterity or for someone who really wants to write a book on the Reilly's

========================================================================================================================================
1823 - Reilly as "Jeweler"


JC Reilly was still identified as a “Jeweler.



I assume he also was a silver plate worker but you don’t just register a mark (which he allegedly did in 1819) - you have to pass through stages of excellence in the silver world and I can’t find evidence of this. This is a work in progress; would appreciate any help in search silver mark sources for information on this part of his career. What type of “jewels” did he make? Here is the only example I’ve been able to find. Telling isn’t it. http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogues/as290616/page009.html



========================================================================================================================================
1823 - Reilly's Hunting License


- Joseph Charles Reilly of “Hampstead” (Middlesex, i.e. London) was awarded a Hunting License. (“London Morning Chronical,” 13 Sep 1823). Hampstead was still countryside but wasn’t that far from Holborn Bars. We’ve often wondered where Reilly’s 300 yard shooting range was located. It might be in Hampstead - which is a "heath" and a golf course and a park now



Now why would you need a hunting license in England in 1823? And by the way 2 guineas in 1785 was a lot of money - no wonder hunting became an upper class sport.



========================================================================================================================================
1825 - Reilly member of the London Proof House


- The book posted above provided a copper plate on members of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers (the London Proof House). The author provides the following caution:
https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.278485/2015.278485.A-History_djvu.txt

The Worshipful Company of Gunmakers was, and still is, one of the minor City Livery Companies or Guilds, but there were many makers who were simply under the legal obligation to have their weapons proved but who were not members of the Company. It is doubtful if at any time in its history the Company has represented more than a proportion of the London makers. Fairly full records of the apprenticeship and admission of gunsmiths exist but are not available for the study of the historian. Many of the City Companies have thrown open their records to research students, but in the case of this Company permission has not yet been given.

The book mentions that J.C. Reilly was a member as of 1825. If this can be confirmed it is as good a date as any as to when he became a “gun maker.”

1825-40 - Reilly, Joseph Chas. London
1832 - Reilly & Co. London
1850 - Reilly, Edward M. London
Reilly, 1882, London. Breakdown action revolvers of -450 calibre.


========================================================================================================================================
1829 - Reilly still a Jeweler and selling guns


-- An advertisement still identified J.C. Reilly as a “silverplate worker” and “gun maker.” (I've misplaced this ad...it will be posed asap).

Not the ad I'm looking for but 14 Jun 1829, Bell's sporting Life gun ad:



========================================================================================================================================
1830 - Reilly making his own guns


18 July 1830, "Bell's Life." Reilly making his own guns:



========================================================================================================================================
1831 - Reilly a Silversmith and a Jeweler


04 Jan 1831 "Morning Chronicle" - robber at Reilly - Jewelry taken...still a Jeweler or Silversmith, or both



========================================================================================================================================
1833 - Reilly, Gun Maker


Reilly identifies solely as "Gun Maker"; 07 Jul 1833, "Bell's Life"



===========================================================================================
1840 - JC Reilly becomes "Reilly": Edward Michael becomes a full partner?


As mentioned previously between the end of June 1840 and end of Aug 1840 the company's name in advertisements changed from JC Reilly or Joseph Charles Reilly to just "Reilly." Believe that this marks the entry of then 23 year old Edward Michael as a full partner in the firm:

.........21 Jun 1840, "Bell's Life"


........22 Aug 1840, "Evening Standard". (the reference to the August edition of "Sporting Magazine" refers to the Reilly poem -see below).

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 04/04/18 02:02 PM

========================================================================================================================================
1841 - The Poetry of a Reilly


- The poem written about Reilly has often been cited. Here it is with a bit of humor - what is it with the English at this time and their love of doggerill?





========================================================================================================================================
1844 - Reilly - military inventor and contract supplicant


- Many writers have commented that the Reilly’s were not innovators and never really took out gun patents. Many have commented that the only patent was on an 1969 explosive bullet. (posted below). Well, JC Reilly sure tried to hawk a mortar and some mortar bombs in 1844. It is indicative of their business sense - they wanted to sell stuff…guns but explosives too and especially to the military for a big military contract:
https://books.google.td/books?id=YBZdAAA...ars&f=false



========================================================================================================================================
1857 - JC Reilly Swan Song -1 (see p. 20)


— Vini Vidi Vici with skull; You’ll notice the two very last surviving guns in the “7000 series” which I believe were numbers reserved for J.C. Reilly the father, 8025 and 8052, both have the inscription “Vini Vidi Vici” with a skull engraved on them. It’s a good guess that these were part of the last 50 guns he ever built and that these were his swan song: “I came, I saw, I conquered” and dust to dust, ashes to ashes. At least it makes a good (and logical) ending. (He retired totally at the end of 1858 and moved to his country house where he died in 1863; the next year the company was named E.M Reilly). (and Terry Buffum, if you have a picture of that inscription and of the rifle, we’d much like to see it for history’s sake. Thanks).

..8025 - Reilly, New Oxford St. London; 13 bore; Rifle; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader (Buffum). (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici)
..8052 - Reilly, New Oxford St., London. 20 bore. Rifle. Percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader. (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici). (8052 pictured below)





========================================================================================================================================
1855-58 - Reilly and Prince etc. - Military Contract attempts


- Prince Patent: As has been widely reported in 1855 the Prince Patent breech-loader was widely hailed as the finest of its kind. Reilly began making Prince patent guns almost immediately. In 1859 12 prominent London gunmakers tried to get Ordinance to reopen the question but were rejected (as reported in C. Blair (ed) 1983, pp. 245-6).

It is a testament to the belief in the design that in 1859, four years after it had first been rejected, a group of prominent London gun makers including Manton, Wilkinson, Samuel Nock, Parker Field, and Tatham petitioned the Board of Ordnance to reconsider their decision.
http://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/130153944059/historicalfirearms-frederick-princes

I believe Reilly had to have been amongst the 12 gunmakers making the petition. He was with Prince on several other ventures subsequently and there appears to have been some sort of business understanding amongst them and a few others, including J. Blanch. (Prince created a partnership with the Green Bros which was dissolved in 1859; then Reilly got manufacturing rights to the Green Bros breech loader and trialed in in 1864. etc.)

I cannot find the names of all the gunmakers involved but would like to confirm the hunch. Prince has been subject of a few books and articles if anyone cares to research this including the below:
Prince’s Carbines, Gun’s Review, Nov. 1971, R.J. Wilkinson-Latham

SN 10782 - dated 1858 per dating chart



========================================================================================================================================
1862 - Reilly at London exposition


- Here is Reilly’s advertisement for the 1862 London Exhibition for which he had meticulously prepared. The praise in Bradshaw’s Alphabetical handbook for Sep 1862 (below) might be for this gold Shotgun meant for India, SN 12532: (per the chart above, SN 12532 was numbered in mid 1862 - this is possible validation of the chart and of the gun as being the one in the 1862 exhibition).



https://books.google.com/books?id=mvkHAA...gun&f=false



Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 04/06/18 06:09 PM

==================================================================================================
1868 + Reilly as military innovator


— On 23 April 1869 E.M Reilly took out a patent for an explosive bullet. It’s mentioned pretty often to illustrate mostly Reilly’s paucity of gun patents. No one seems to mention his Air Cane treatise which is still being cited today. But no matter - because Reilly didn’t patent a top lever key or something, ergo he “didn’t really make guns.” This silliness aside, here are some tools for the making of those explosive bullets. It actually sounds pretty neat to me, an 1869 16 bore version of an M-79?




==================================================================================================
1868 - post 1886? Reilly Triumphs at Paris and beyond


— Paris Universelle 1867 Medals: These began to be featured on his trade labels about early 1868 when rue Scribe opened. For the most part the medals disappeared from his advertisements and trade labels not long after the fall of the 2nd Empire - 1871-2? However, they did reappear from time to time per below - rare - but there are four examples;. Therefore one cannot date with absolute certainty a case label based only on the presence or absence of the medals. ** Notice that some list "Gun & Rifle Manufacturer" and others just the traditional "Gun Manufacturer."







==================================================================================================
1870 - Reilly loves France and the Franco-Prussian War


Reilly's affinities for France were well known in UK. He was prosecuted Fall 1870 for trying to send cartridges to his shop in Paris, violating the UK Neutrality. Here is one of several newspaper articles and a letter which ends by imply that Reilly couldn't help himself..he had to do it:

London Daily News 06 October 1870


Pall Mall Gazette, 06 October 1870


==================================================================================================
1898-1903 - Reilly Presentation Case/Trade labels


— On the Reilly trade label post above, two presentation cases for “EM Reilly, Gun and Rifle Maker, 277 Oxford street” were posted. The departure from “Gun and Rifle Manufacturer” used from 1876 into the 1890’s in Reilly ads (the labels often kept "gun manufacturer though after 1884, not consistently) is so interesting that I suspect these trade labels were used after 1898 after the closure of 16 Oxford Street and up to 1903 when they moved to 295 Oxford Street. Normally I could confirm this suspicion by advertisements. However, It’s strange - I’ve collected at least 500 Reilly advertisements from 1829 to 1898 (and could easily have another 2000). However, Reilly magazine, travel guide, calendar and newspaper advertisements seem to progressively disappear over the 1890’s and I can find none after 1898. Maybe I need to search in some different ways.

Actually this is not a certainty though…sometime in the 1850’s being a “Gun Maker” wasn’t good enough so the whole trade became “Gun Manufacturers” - Reilly changing in 1859. Then the English gun trade suddenly decided that being a “Gun Manufacturer” wasn’t cool enough and so they came up with “Gun & Rifle Manufacturers” about 1876. Then Purdey sort of stuck with “Gun & Rifle Makers”…and everybody kind of flocked back; so maybe it’s just a herd mentality - sort of like Iranian politics - and has nothing to do with the change of address in 1898.



EDIT: Well, the two "how to do-it" labels on the second case sure look like the ones posted below with 295 Oxford Street address...right down to the slanted overwriting on the second label - so I think it can safely be predicted that these two ornamental cases are in fact 1898-1903

==================================================================================================
1902 - H.H. (Bert) Reilly and the Gunmakers Association


— Here is the notice for the 1902 meeting of the British Gunmakers Association annual meeting. There are some powerful names here: Greener, Blanch, and of the people who didn’t show up H.W. Holland, etc. etc…and H.H. Reilly, EM’s son who apparently ran the business at the age of 16?? (with help from brother? mother?) from the time of EM’s death in 1890. Well, the interesting thing, besides the fact that HH didn’t attend, is the existence of “The Gunmmakers’ Association” at all. I’ve tried to research UK gunmakers associations and when and where they came into existence without much success. But. It’s an interesting topic —- what did they discuss? Who were members? How long did it exist? What organizations were predecessors? The minutes of the meetings have to be somewhere. There’s a lot of history there.

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 04/07/18 05:32 PM

There are a lot of bits and pieces to add which may help a historian, but for now the Case Label post above needs to be expanded:

==================================================================================================
1903-04 + Reilly trade/case label - the "four medal" label redoux


This Air Cane label was mentioned in the the above post on trade labels:



Here is a closer view of a similar label. It has 277 with a strike out and 295 printed above. Reilly left 277 in 1903, where they'd been for 44 years, because the "building was being renovated" and moved to 295. Don't know whether this label was for all their guns or specialty pieces only. It uses "Gun Manufacturers" (not "Gun & Rifle Manufactures/Makers"):



I've tried to identify the medals on the label.



-- Top left probably is 1876 Philadelphia Centinennal;.



-- Top right likely is 1878 Paris



-- The bottom left will be the 1885 International Inventions Exposition in London;



The bearded guy with the recessive chin should be identifiable - can't find it (It's not Edward VII). (edit: It looks a lot like Franz Joseph, emperor of Austria-Hungary; There was an International Exposition in Vienna in 1873..and the medals look similar. This cannot be confirmed...a close look at a clear picture will settle this. (and unlike Paris, London, Calcutta, Philadelphia there's no record of Reilly at Vienna, though strangely there are late 1800's Reilly's in Slovakia..). Edit: Confirmed: The last set of medals are for Vienna, 1873
https://info71508.wixsite.com/perrinsgunmaker/erik-nikmon



The presence of these medals 1873, 1876, 1878, 1885 on a 1903 label shows how Reilly had declined after the death of EM in 1890. (It also shows he may not have won a medal at the Paris Universelle in 1889). He prepared for these world fairs - he advertised, networked, promoted. The same cannot be said for his sons evidently.


==================================================================================================
1903-1911 + - Reilly practical instruction label for 295


Here are a couple of "how-to-do-it" labels from a case dating from 295 Oxford Street days (possibly from 1911. (The Reilly's left 295 on June 8, 1912). These labels look so similar to the two (very unclear) labels pasted on the above 277 Oxford Street presentation case (right down to the slanted overprint warnings), that I think they date those two presentation cases to 1898-1903:






And by the way, that number on the label "26.210.11" is giving problems. Is that a tiny "1" in front of the "2"? Is the serial number of this gun 126,210..a 12 bore made in 1911? Hummmm....scratch head..stroke beard (if I had a beard). If so...then H.H. Reilly added a "1" in front of his Serial number chronology before selling the name to Charles Riggs in 1917 (Riggs' catalog trumpeting of the Reilly name for his wares and his use of six digit serial numbers has already been discussed). - And H.H. Reilly seems to have started a whole new number series.....beginning where? 125,000? Per the previous label he's now advertising magazine guns...but what has happened to all the guns he sold during this period 1903-1911? There's nothing out there left to find compared to the 19th Century. Were they all crunched up in the British post WWII gun pogrom? Mystery to be investigated.... (now where is Holmes when we need him?). (edit: Or was he just repairing, updating 26,210, which would have been numbered about 1884?)

Add: Here are the powders, Amberite or Schultze, that Reilly recommended for reloading per the label above:

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 04/11/18 04:53 PM

=================================================== 1840-1912========================================
Reilly markets gun stuff


And Reilly did market everything related to guns. Eley cartridges with his name on it have been found in an archeological dig at a French settlement in Canada. Here are reloading tools for the above labels:
http://www.finesportingcollectablesltd.co.uk/tools.htm



==================================================================================================
1903-1912 - 295 Oxford Street


From the texts of a couple of period pieces, I'm pretty sure Reilly rented the entire building at 502 (16) Oxford Street in 1847 and the building and area behind the building at 315 (277) as well in 1859. In 1890, the year of Edward M.'s death, there was a nasty lawsuit at 277, whereby someone tried to use the fact that they had an easement to close access to the property behind it....i.e., probably Reilly's old shooting gallery.

When EM Reilly & Co. (Run by sons Charles Arthur Farquhar Reilly (b1870) & Herbert Horace (Bert)) was forced to move out of 277 in 1903, they went a few blocks down the street to 295. They were there for 9 years. I think Reilly only numbered about 250 guns in these 9 years...say 30 a year (first extant Reilly with 295 on the rib is 35422; last one I've found is 35678). The census showed that Bert and Charles "gunmakers" lived in the building. Thus if this building existed as is in 1903, then I'd imagine he only had the first couple of floors rented, with the shop on the ground floor and a few boring, engraving machines and lathes in the back - they were still building guns during that period. The current store front area exhibited here:



==================================================================================================
1912 - Bankruptcy


Here is the final story - not the final one because 5 years after the fall of the House of Reilly, his son sold the name to a small time carney barker named Charles Riggs. (Did this happen in 1917? I don't know - but that's what the "internet" says; But then the "internet" also has a Riggs catalog supposedly dated 1924 that trumpets his new-found Reilly line "From now on our guns will be labeled 'Reilly' " - see Riggs commentary above; so one date 1917 or the other 1924 is wrong). Anyway this will also correct a widely reported mis-fact:

In the history of Reilly on Page one, I posted the following: "In 1912 E M Reilly & Co Ltd was recorded at 13 High Street, Marylebone. The directors of this limited company were H Reilly and "C W Roberts." I've attempted to establish the identity of CW Roberts...no success so far. Welcome additional information."

All this business about Roberts and a shop at Marylebone of course came off the internet - I'm as subject to swollowing mis-information as anyone...it's so easy; just copy what everybody else has written.

Well turns out EM Reilly located at 295 Oxford Street declared bankruptcy on June 8, 1912. G. Watkinson Roberts ("G" for George) was the liquidator; Reilly's son HH was the protagonist. I believe "C.W. Roberts" above to be in fact GW Roberts." This was a prominent law/accounting firm specializing in bankruptcies. Reilly no longer existed after June 8, 1912. I am even now questioning whether Reilly ever had a "gun maker's" shop at 13 High Street, Marylebone. if so it might have been a repair or alteration shop but it also might be the address of one of Robert's subsidiary law offices. In other words it is unlikely that anyone is going to find a Reilly gun with Marylebone on the rib or that address on a Trade label or even in an advertisement (I certainly haven't after two years of looking). I'd be happy to eat my words if anyone can prove this to the contrary.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28618/page/4328/data.pdf



As an aside, Robert's son was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross for service on the submarine "Thresher" in the Mediterranean in WWII. His brother was killed in 1941.
http://www.hambo.org/kingscanterbury/view_man.php?id=272

==================================================================================================
1912-1918 + - 13 High Street, Marlybone


Here is the address today. Certainly a tiny little shop. A small gun repair facility, work benches, some gun racks could have occupied the place and from appearance more likely than a lawyer-accountant's office. But if so, quite a come-down for Reilly.



"The majority of the buildings in the street today date from 1900, since which point the street has been consistently revitalised by the main local landlord, Howard de Walden Estates, which has been credited with turning a "once-shabby area of central London" into an elegant street which carefully manages its "mix of boutiques and small retailers".[5] Property prices in the area have soared in recent years.[6]"
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 04/14/18 07:55 PM

==================================================================================================
1890 + Oxford Street


I was looking for period photos of the Reilly buildings in London. I'm sure they're out there somewhere. But here are a few photos of Oxford Street which will illustrated the times they lived and worked in:

1) 1890: There is a 154 on a building on the left and the Princess's Theodora Theater - and though both are gone, the neighboring building windows look to match this modern google photo taken from the current 154 Oxford Street address - see the windows above the "footwear sign";

(And by the way, I remember those type of awnings over the central square in my small town in Florida in the 1950's where I grew up before a/c; And to go downtown, we had to put on long pants. In this era-1890's, if you didn't wear a tie, you were a ditch-digger. No flip flops). --- (and there was an amazing problem of horse dung at the time...so much so some predicted a climate disaster.)

Note: Oxford Street runs pretty much east-west. Awnings are out on the North side of the street (sun at this latitude will be in the south - shadow's are oriented north pretty true north (i.e. around 12 noon)(shadows are short so probably summer time) - so the photo was taken facing east down Oxford Street - i.e. numbers would be declining towards 16 which would be almost at the end of the street on the left.....277 and 295 (and Regents Circus) would be behind the photo. Welcome orientation from the Londoners here:



From google - Summer time (short sleeves); Shadows are long and slanting towards the east - probably about 5:00 PM. 16 Oxford St. would have been across the street from that tall financial business tower in the distance.



Likewise on this view: Again awnings are on the North side of the street. The photo is taken from 358 (see below) facing east. 295 Oxford Street and 277 Oxford Street would lie down the street on the right side - 295 being about three streets down...277 further along: reasoning: There is a slight bend in the road to the right in the photo ; the only possibility I can see from a google map is a fade to the right just after Regent's Circus...Reilly 277 and 295 would have been on the right before the bend. The 2nd empire style turret on the right would be a block before 295. 16 would be out of sight far in the distance. Again, Londoners need to chime in.



Here's an explanation of from where the photo was taken:
358-New Oxford Street 1903
The building on the far left was replaced by a Burton menswear store, which still stands today. All the other buildings on the left side of the street were demolished, probably some time in the late 1920's or early 1930's. The second block on the left went on to house Imhof's record shop, now a Starbucks coffee house - see the next picture in this set. The bank building on the far right remained here up until the early 1960's, when it was demolished to make way for Centre Point.


And here is the old 1903 EH Evans department store which was located at 318 Oxford (though I can't pin down the address...they were busy acquiring a whole city block including 296...near to Reilly's 295 (to which they'd just "removed" from 277) one supposes - though you never know with European addresses):
-- Awnings on the right which would be north side of the street. The photo was taken facing west...295 would be across the street and in the block just behind the viewer; 277 be further behind the viewer. Can any Londoner identify that prominent building on the south side of Oxford Street with the spires? It's long gone now.



Here is that view today though from across the street; House of Fraser is EH Evans. Lots of good looking buildings gone. That Fraser department store front was built in 1910-12. 295 would be one block further on behind the photo.



I guess photographs have a power of reality...and to compare where the Reilly's were in 1860 with their buildings and business...and see that little hole his son wound up in in 1912 is pretty evocative...It's also a lesson in the smear campaign run against Damascus barrels at the time...and maybe the result of an early "Amazon.com" phenomenon...the destruction of the artisan by the steel barrel mass-productionists.

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 04/23/18 03:59 PM

================================================================
1898-1903 - 35186 (1901) - gun and case with labels


I continue to collect Reilly SN's and will shortly repost the SN dating chart with an additional 15 numbers on it. - there are no surprises - the chart looks solid at this point. But this gun 35186, with antique case, just sold in UK for £120. It's interesting for two reasons. The SN is firmly in the date group 1898 -1903 after Reilly closed 16 Oxford Street but before its move to 295. And its label, identical to the above "carnival labels" with 277 and 295 on them, leads one to believe that this was indeed the Reilly label for post 1898 Reilly guns (if they weren't in presentation cases).

Note the warning and "how to reload" labels in the left side of the case lid. Barrels are steel; engraving next to nonexistent and poorly executed; the name on the receiver poorly engraved. $180. The auction house missed by a mile - that case may not be the original case but it is absolutely contemporary with the gun and probably came with the gun. I'm wondering if the indifferent engraving might be symptomatic of a decline in quality at Reilly during this time? (It is only one gun of course)

I've never mastered reading UK proof marks; Looks there are London proof marks for 1896-1904. ... and Birmingham proof marks post 1954 (re-proof)? Can anyone tell me the date the barrels were proofed? (edit: Lagopus and Larry identified the Birmingham re-proof date as 1972.)

================================================================
35186
http://www.bigwoodauctioneers.com/s/pictorialSale/5270/500/SHOOTING
E.M. REILLY & CO. of 277 Oxford Street, London A BOXLOCK 12 BORE SIDE BY SIDE NON-EJECTOR SHOTGUN, no.35186, with vacant escutcheon, circa 1920s, in earlier original leather case with makers label and early breach loading instructions and two piece ebonised cleaning rod (Shotgun Cert. required)
£120







Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/16/18 10:05 PM

Photobucket held all photos on this line and every other one for ransom about a year ago; then postimages.org went belly up and started deleting photos. With Dave's help in unlocking the posts, the original photos pretty much were all reposted here...then photo bucket, decided to unlock my account and magically stolen photos reappeared everywhere. Is this that "rapture" thingy I've been hearing about?

I still don't trust either site and especially photobuccket. As a test, can other posters now see the photos on this line or is this fixed just for my benefit?
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...2986#Post452986
Posted by: SXS 40

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/17/18 12:37 AM

Photos are visible
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/17/18 08:30 AM

Here ae my estimates of the dates of Reilly SN's guns. There are anomalies:

1). I chose 1825 as a start date and gun SN "1". Both assumptions are not proven. Allegedly Reilly was a member of the London Proof House in 1825, the reason for choosing this date. The earliest gun SN found is 169. Thus the reasoning.

2) I estimated the number of SN'd guns produced between marker dates and tried to make increases logical. That's also is not hard and fast data but subjective reasoning. For instance after the 1855 Paris Universelle, he was "overdone by orders" but I've only shown an increase in gun production of about 20.

3). I had a problem in the 1859-67 era, where, if we were to accept 13333 as having been made in early 1862 it would have meant he produced 600 guns from 1859-62, but 360 62-67, so I used the average for the whole period.

4) I assumed the decline of Reilly was pretty sharp beginning in the mid 1890's - it of course could have been later but without analysis of proof marks from a number of guns SN's 32000-35000 is impossible to say objectively; the marking of this decline is therefore subjective based on lack of ads and closing of 16 Oxford St. in 1898. Reilly targeted a specific sector of the market for his bespoke serial numbered guns - low price, quality hand-made wares, rapidly delivered; as the factories went towards mass production and steel barrels, and you could walk into a sporting gun shop and buy factory made guns off the rack, his business model just couldn't hold up.

The reasoning and research behind these numbers and a chart of history, names on gun ribs, case/trade labels, etc. will be a separate post below.

This chart of course cannot be definitive; but enough checks have come in to show that it will get a Reilly owner close to the date his gun was Serial Numbered.
EDIT: Chart has been superseded by new data...see page 17.
Posted by: 12boreman

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/18/18 02:58 PM

I have an E.M. Reilly 8 gauge with jones underlever serial number 14983 that has the oxford address and Paris address which is earlier than the seial numbers you list. I hope this helps
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/18/18 03:13 PM

That is a huge help.....it takes the first known Paris address on a rib back 287 numbers from 15270 - to 14483. Could you please post a photo of the gun and rib? I'll modify the above list. And this is what is badly needed - Reilly owners providing new information from their guns - there are at least 40 which have been auctioned in the last few years where the SN or addresses on the ribs were not mentioned. (I keep all ads and photos from the ads of Reilly's for reference). Since the first known advertisement mentioning 2 rue Scribe that I've found is Feb 12, 1868, you can be pretty sure your gun was serial numbered in that month (unless/until earlier ones show up.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/18/18 04:01 PM

===========================================================================================
1885 - Reilly last guns at rue Scribe


And by the way the last gun with rue Scribe on the rib I've found is 27340 (and I've not seen the actual photos).
============================================================
27340. (No photos)
E.M. REILLY &. Co.- Oxford Street LONDON & Rue Scribe - PARIS.: Hammergun Side by Side, 12 bore,gun number 27340 London proof mark.Price Euro 1.850. Both guns have damas barrel, owner say in good condition auctioned at www.czernys.com/ in 2005
https://www.internetgunclub.com/~inte8406/archived-forum/posts.php?topicid=288



Terry Buffum mentioned he had a couple of guns 27570 and 27854 which had "Paris" on their ribs (he said 27854 address was unclear). This also will change the chronology significantly if true but I hesitate to start moving things around until I can see the ribs..And there were a few intervening SN's without rue Scribe...There's a lot of "internet legend" around (although Terry can be counted on).
============================================================
27854. (no photos of rib)
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/110/133.php
serial #27854, 12 ga., 30" barrels with bright excellent bores choked full and full. This shotgun is built on a W. & C. Scott crystal indicator action with side clips and with each lock being engraved "E.M. REILLY & CO. / LONDON". The markings on the tops of the barrel are difficult to read but appear to be the E.M. Reilly & Company name and London address on the left barrel and a Paris address on the right barrel. The shotgun was part of a set and is numbered "2" in gold on dolls head rib extension and engraved on interior forend metal. The barrels are Birmingham nitro proofed for 2 3/4" shells with 1 1/16 oz. loads. The minimum wall thickness is generally .0245 with one small area that gets to .023. The action and locks show near full coverage tight English scroll engraving with a nice round flower panel on top of action. The barrels retain about 95% evenly thinning restored blue finish overall. The action and locks show an even gray patina and remain very smooth and free of pitting. The checkered straight grip walnut buttstock and splinter forend rate very good plus as refinished long ago. The gun features a 14 5/8" length of pull over checkered butt and shows drops of 1 1/2" and 2 3/8". The gun locks up tight and points beautifully. A neat crystal indicator sidelever Reilly Ejectorgun. (17147-176) {C&R} [Terry Buffum Collection]


Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/18/18 11:46 PM

And the reason I'm having a problem moving 27854 and its Paris address to 1886 is this label on my case. It is hand numbered 26584 and then is hand dated 1886 in the lower right corner. Of course the barrels could have been serial numbered in xxxx date and it later was sold in 1886. But accepting that 27854 had a Paris address would move the serial numbering of 26584 back to 1884 or so..... Reilly prided himself on rapid delivery of bespoke guns...this gun then would have sat on his racks for 2 years or so until sold.

I'm twisting and turning.

Posted by: 12boreman

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/21/18 01:31 PM

14983
E.M. Reilly 8 gauge
with Oxford and Paris address

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Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/21/18 06:22 PM

Many thanks 12bore, I'll be working on modifying the chronology: Here are the extant serial numbered guns ranging from about 13700 to 15700 surrounding the opening of Rue Scribe; several extant guns numbered after 12bore's 14983 had only the London address; only three in this group had the Paris address; this was normal throughout the existence of rue Scribe.

13688 - E.M Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 20 bore; Shotgun SxS. underlever hammer gun.
14115 - E.M. Reilly (nothing further - no photos, etc). Shotgun SxS; Center break, Jones under leaver, hammer gun.
14580 - E.M. Reilly & Co. London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS; Percussion hammergun, Muzzle loader.
14983 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxfort Street, London & 2 rue Scribe, Paris; 8 bore. Shotgun SxS; underlever Hammer gun. (First known rue Scribe, Paris address)
14985 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 16 ga. Shotgun SxS; Sidelock, underlever hammer gun, (Buffum).
15129 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 Oxford St. London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS; pinfire, hammer gun, muzzle loader.
15143 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 Oxford St. London, 12ga. Shotgun SxS; underlever, hammergun.
15239 - E.M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford St., London. .577. Rifle, Snider-Enfield 2-band; Birmingham proof.
15270 - E.M. Reilly and Company Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris. .577. Rifle SxS; Underlever. BPE. Non-rebounding hammers.
15262 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street. London. 12ga. Rifle SxS. Black Powder proof for 13 bore.
15283 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS; Jones under lever. Buffum.
15287 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS'. Under lever, hammer gun. Buffum
15346 - E.M. Reilly (no further info). 12ga. Shotgun SxS; Under lever, hammer gun.
15531 - “Reilly & Co." (no rib name, address mentioned; no photos). .50cal. Rifle Single barrel. Enfield type. Hammer gun. Muzzle loader. Buffum .
15625 - E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London, 2 Rue Scribe Paris. 4bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever. Orig pinfire conv-to centerfire.

Posted by: 12boreman

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/21/18 06:38 PM

You have my gun 14983 listed as a 12 gauge it is an 8 gauge!
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/21/18 06:39 PM

And here are the existing guns from about SN 25500 to 28000 surrounding the closing of rue Scribe in 1886. You'll see that Terry Buffum owned several of these. Some were rebarrelled. However, he might be able to clarify some of the questions about the names on the ribs per below. If anyone has these guns or knows of others in this chronological period, it would help if we could see the ribs: I'll factor this into the master chronology in a couple of weeks.

25572 - E.M. Reilly, 16 New Oxford Street, London and Paris. ,450BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever Hammer gun. “To Their Majesties Kings of Spain and Portugal.:
25711 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 New Oxford St. London. 8bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever hammer gun.
26218 - No address mentioned. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. BLNE.
26517 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (re-barreled - Chas Smith & Sons) 20bore Shotgun SxS. Under lever Hammer gun. Buffum
26537 - No address mentioned. 20ga. Shotgun SxS. Under lever hammer gun (Buffum)
26554 - E.M. Reilly (Address not mentioned). .45 BPE. Double Rifle. Underlever hammer gun. Steel barrels.
26557 - No rib address; left barrel E M Reilly Gun And Rifle Manufactures, 20ga. SxS. Under lever hammer gun; (Buffum) (HWK's gun now)
26584 - E.M. Reilly, New Oxford Street and Rue Scribe Paris. Unknown cal. Case label with SN and 1886 date.
26718 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .380 cal. Rifle Black Powder.
26733 - E.M. Reilly (no full address mentioned). 8 bore. Rifle SxS. Crystal indicator, rifled barrel. hammerless.
26957 - E. M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford St., London. 8 bore. Rifle Single. Underlever, hammer gun.
27254 - Unknown…unknown (question asked of a gun question site)
27340 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Hammer gun. (no photos of the rib)
27377 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 277 Oxford Street, London. 12ga, Shotgun SxS. 3 barrel set, one steel. Crystal indicator (Buffum).
27515 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). Rook Rifle converted to .410.
27570 - E.M. Reilly, Oxford Street, London & Paris. 16ga. Shotgun SxS. BLNE (Buffum).
27687 - E.M. Reilly & Co.(address not mentioned). 20bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever hammergun. (rifle conversion).
27750 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London. Xxxx. SxS. Whitworth steel barrels.
27847 - Name Not mentioned. .450 BPE. Rifle SxS. Under lever, ejectors, rebounding hammer gun.
27854 - E.M. Reilly & Co+ (London address and a Paris address)(unclear). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Side lever, hammer gun. (Buffum) (no rib photos)
27894 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. Top lever hammer gun.
2804x? - Name Not mentioned. .410. Rifle/shotgun single. Converted from rifle. Steel barrel. Top lever hammer gun.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/21/18 06:40 PM

I'll change it, thanks..got confused by your screen name....

12boreman's 14983 is now the 1st rue Scribe SN'd gun (Feb 1868); If Terry's 17854 is the last (Sep? 1886)..it pushes average yearly production of Reilly serial numbered guns to around 705 per year (as opposed to the current estimate of about 660)- almost 60 per month. In 1880 Purdey and Holland and Holland had less than a third as many SN'd gun sales.

Saint Etienne gunmakers at the turn of the century noted a drop off in sales in December to June and diversified into bicycles. Reilly though sold to "gentlemen" going abroad who needed a gun quickly, and all calibers not just shotguns. Here's an interesting example:



Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/21/18 10:53 PM

12boreman, what in the world are those hammers? I'm a bit new but I don't understand how the thing works?

Posted by: 12boreman

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/22/18 11:55 AM

This is a very rare mechanism. The hammers are flat nose or noseless. The strikers are retractable with the cocking of the hammers. This gun could be considered a "false hammerless" design. The firing pins are connected internally to the cocking rods on the exterior of the action, which are in turn connected to slots via the anterior portion of the hammers. Very ingenious and another way to invent the mousetrap!
Posted by: Geo. Newbern

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/22/18 01:10 PM

Cocking indicators...Geo
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/22/18 09:08 PM

EDIT: This chart doesn't work....there's another marker that I didn't account for, Nov 1881 when the numbering of Oxford St. changed. 1st SN with 277 or 16 was 23816. I can't make that number fit into Nov 1881 very easily without skyrocketing the number of Reilly's built in the following 5 years. I've sent Terry a message ask about 27854 and 27570 and how confident he is in a Paris address being on either rib or barrel. The chart will be edited asap.

Here are the latest estimates of the dates of Reilly SN's guns taking into account 12boreman's 14983 rue Scribe rib and Terry Buffum's 27854 with "a Paris address" (I haven't seen 27854's rib photos; Terry is pretty meticulous about his guns so we'll assume this is the new end-number for rue Scribe). To repeat the above caveats: there are assumptions:

1). 1825 was chosen as a start date and gun SN "1". Both assumptions are not proven. Allegedly Reilly became a member of the London Proof House in 1825, the reason for choosing this date. The earliest gun SN found is 162. Thus the reasoning for starting at "1".

2) The number of SN'd guns produced between marker dates was estimated and an effort was made to make increases logical. That's also is not hard and fast data but subjective reasoning. For instance after the 1855 Paris Universelle, he was "overdone by orders" but I've only shown an increase in gun production of about 20.

3). I had a problem in the 1859-67 era, where, if we were to accept 13333 as having been made in early 1862 it would have meant he produced 600 guns from 1859-62, but 360 62-67, so I used the average for the whole period and smoothed it out so that there was not sudden jumps in production. (This turned out to be correct; 13333 was made in circa May 1864 when Reilly had the manufacturing rights to Green.)

4) I assumed the decline of Reilly was pretty sharp beginning in the mid 1890's - it of course could have been earlier or later but without analysis of proof marks from a number of guns SN's 32000-35000 is impossible to say objectively; the marking of this decline is therefore subjective based on lack of ads and closing of 16 Oxford St. in 1898. (I assumed 16 Oxford, the larger building, was their largest finishing facility; 277 had the shooting gallery. Without enough orders to keep both open, closing 16 would seem logical).

Again, Reilly targeted a specific sector of the market for his bespoke serial numbered guns - low price, quality hand-made wares, rapidly delivered; as the factories went towards mass production and steel barrels, and you could walk into a sporting gun shop and buy factory made guns off the rack, his business model just couldn't hold up.

The reasoning and research behind these numbers and a chart of history, names on gun ribs, case/trade labels, etc. will be a separate post below.

This chart of course cannot be definitive; but enough checks have come in to show that it will get a Reilly owner close to the date his gun was Serial Numbered.

(DELETED - See below for latest)
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/26/18 09:50 PM

Chart is out of date....see p. 33.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/11/18 10:11 PM

This is out of date: Latest version is p. 33

There are a lot of erroneous Reilly history-summaries published by auction houses and on double-gun historical sites. I can't really fault the inaccuracies on lack of historical scholarship because there was just so little information available in the 1990's early 2000's when Brown published his book on English gun-makers with incomplete information and others then copied the published research in magazine articles or on the internet. These became the references that others quoted. It led to bad information being verified by "circular reporting."

So, here is an updated short history of Reilly which can be used from now on and hits the most relevant high-points. Admittedly there may be some inaccuracies; research will continue; more guns will appear. Where there are questions, I've used best guesses but fudged by using conditionals ("about," "circa," "probably," etc.). Trust me though - these are pretty good guesses. This will provide the essence of Reilly's history as gun-makers. The convoluted story of the family has been largely left out - it'll be addressed later. A complete historical justification of the below will be a separate (and last) post - most of it has already been mentioned in previous posts on this line.

====================== A New, Short History of Reilly of London, Gun Maker =======================

Joseph Charles Reilly was born in Ireland in 1786. He hailed from a well-to-do family and aspired to become a lawyer. In the mid-1800's he went to London to study; However, instead of law school, in 1814 he opened a jewelry shop, later described as also dealing in silver-plate, at 12 Middle Row, Holborn hard by the inns of the court where his clientele included country gentlemen and barristers. In 1817 his son Edward Michael was born, the third of four children. He prospered, buying a country estate in Bedfordshire in 1824.

Jewelry shops in London at the time often dealt in guns, engraving them and re-selling them. By 1825 he was a member of the Worshipful Company of Gun Makers (the London Proof House) and around this time numbered his first Reilly built gun which presumably was 001. (The oldest extant Reilly is SN 162). His guns during this period often displayed the address “Holborn Bars.” The serial number guns included pistols, rifles and shotguns.

JC Reilly early on adopted a business model which did not change for 80 years: i.e. provide a quality hand-made product for a moderate price and deliver it rapidly. With this model he undercut more expensive and better known makers and made his profit on volume.

Reilly dealt in used guns taken on trade and sold guns under license. However he did not serial number guns he did not build and he numbered his guns consecutively for 90 years with certain exceptions during the move to New Oxford Street in 1847. Reilly had extensive finishing facilities in his large London buildings and may have stockpiled actions and barrels imported in the white from Birmingham to allow him to meet orders three times as quickly as his competitors.

By 1833 all references to “jeweler” or "silver-plate" vanished from his advertisements and from that time forward he identified himself solely as “Gun-Maker.”

In August 1835 JC Reilly with EM as an apprentice moved to 316 High Holborn Street. The first serial numbered extant gun with the High Holborn address is SN 1024. By circa 1837 pistols were no longer numbered in the Reilly chronological numbering system; His serial numbered guns seemed to be limited to bespoke long-guns made to order.

In August 1840 the firm’s name in advertisements changed from J.C. Reilly to just “Reilly” which may mark the advent of 23 year old EM as a full partner in the company. The names on the gun ribs continued to be “J.C. Reilly" or "Joseph Charles Reilly.” Case/Trade labels were styled like an embossed business card with "Joseph Charles Reilly," "Gun Maker," and the High Holborn address.

JC Reilly during this period also became known for his air cane guns. Young EM was billed as the expert and was so mentioned In advertisements, identified as “Reilly Junr." In 1847 or early 1848 EM wrote a widely disseminated pamphlet on air guns (mostly an advertising brochure highlighting the company's ability to produce all sorts of air-guns and parts) which is cited to this day. The pamphlet title page noted the author was "Reilly junr," used the 502 New Oxford Street address and included "removed from Holborn.".

In March 1847 Reilly moved to 502 New Oxford street, a large building In the "Elizabethean" area. The last extant guns with High Holborn on the ribs are 3392 and 3402. At this point the main serial number chronology for Reilly long-guns was jumped up 5000 numbers to begin anew at 8400 probably with production supervised by EM Reilly. The name on the gun ribs was “Reilly.” (And with this move, Reilly demonstrated another trait of his business acumen, i.e. "Location, Location, Location." He always chose prestigious, high-traffic locations for his stores.)

The first extant SN’d gun with "Reilly," and 502 New Oxford Street on the rib is SN 8463; the label notes the firm had “removed from Holborn." (There is a SN 8578 with J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street on the rib with an apparently original case label with Joseph Charles Reilly, the Oxford St. address and "removed from holborn," possibly one of the last such guns in the new 8400 series.)

Soon after the move, the trade label changed to the name "Reilly, Gun Maker" and featured a sketch of the estimated 20,000 sq foot building at 502 New Oxford Street. Note: From 1848-1859 long guns and hand guns can be found with “Edward M.” Or “Edward Michael” on their ribs; these, however, were not built by Reilly - they were only engraved and marketed.

Around the time of this move and the change in the main serial number chronology, J.C. Reilly appears to have kept a series of numbers for himself beginning at SN 7000 and ending around 8100 when he retired in 1857. JC Reilly often (but not always) put his full name on the ribs of these serial numbers per his 27+ year tradition but with the 502 New Oxford Street address; yet the trade/case labels with "Reilly" as the firm's name and the advertisements/publicity remained the same for both number series.

The first extant SN’d gun in the JC “7000” series is 7201 (a SN 7021 exists but with the High Holborn address possibly indicating the Reillys split their numbering system a bit before the move to 502 New Oxford Street); the last (no doubt made in 1857) is 8052. There is one outlier 3514, with "Reilly" and the New Oxford Street address on the rib, apparently made (per the trade label in the case) after 1855, a number which harkens back to High Holborn, illustrating the sometime quirkiness of JC Reilly.

Reilly exhibited at the 1851 Crystal Palace International Exposition (as Edward M. Reilly) were he was much taken by the Casimir Lefaucheaux center-break guns. Reilly, Lang and Blanch became the major advocates for these new types of guns in England. Advertisements show that Reilly had a 300 yard shooting range somewhere near his London establishment (possibly at JC's estate in Bedfordshire).

Reilly also exhibited at the 1855 Paris Universelle Exposition, where he received much acclaim and "many orders were booked." The exhibit was in the name of E.M Reilly; however, advertisements make clear that though EM won the medals, the firm was still "Reilly, Gun Maker." Reilly case labels changed after 1855 to illustrate the 1851 and 1855 medals and to highlight “Fusils a Bascule” (French for center-break guns) and other breech loaders (such as Prince Patent guns which he marketed and promoted).

In September 1857 JC Reilly retired to his country estates at Bourn End, Cranfield, Bedfordshire, where he died a wealthy man in January 1864; his last guns in the "7000" series were engraved with Caesar's words "Veni, Vidi, Vici" possibly as his swan song story of his life. "Formerly Gun-Marker, London" is chiseled on his tombstone.

In January 1859 with new partners (unknown) he opened a branch store in a large building at 315 Oxford Street (early on also referred to as "the Armoury House" - (Salvation Army hall was located behind the building) which had a 50 yard shooting gallery.

Later that year around September 1859 the company’s name was changed to E.M. Reilly & Co, a name which continued in use until bankruptcy in 1912. His labels changed to reflect the new name, "E.M. Reilly, Gun Maker." The first extant serial numbered gun with E.M. Reilly on the rib is SN 11115.

A year later In circa August 1860 the company description on labels and in advertisements was changed from “Gun Makers” to “Gun Manufacturers” and probably at that time hthe sketch of 502 New Oxford Street was dropped from his case labels.

In 1862 Reilly showed at the London International exposition and won a medal for an exhibit which included a gold washed 12 bore shotgun which may still exist (SN 12532).

From at least the 1840’s the Reilly’s tried mightily to win a lucrative military contract from the British government. JC Reilly exhibited brass mortars in 1845. EM Reilly promoted the Prince patent breech loader in the late 1850’s. He worked with the Green brothers to win a contract for their patent breech loader, to which he had manufacturing rights, in the early 1860’s (competing against the Snider which won out). He put forward the Comblain breech loader from Belgium, to which he gained patent rights in England, in 1868-70 (competing against trial guns such as the Martini and the Henry, a combination of which was adopted). And, he patented an explosive bullet in 1869, a sort of early M-79 idea. However, he failed to obtain a government contract.

Reilly did sell and engrave British military guns - Enfields, Snider's, Martini's and later Lee-Speeds; He hawked these guns to the Volunteer Militia at wholesale prices, versions of them to Military personnel going abroad and to big-game hunters for 50 years. But, unless he built them himself he did not serial number these guns.

EM Reilly always seemed to be enamored with Paris and as the 1867 Paris Universelle exposition approached, he meticulously prepared an exhibit that was extensively lauded. It won him gold and silver medals, led him to became a “gun maker” for Napoleon III, and in February 1868 to open a branch office (EM Reilly & Cie.) at 2 rue Scribe, Paris where orders for his guns could be taken. This branch office remained open for the next 17 years. The first extant gun with 2 rue Scribe on the rib is 14983.

His case labels changed at this time to feature the two medals won at the 1867 World’s Fair and often (but not always) mentioned both branch addresses. Two and a half years later after the battle of Sedan Napoleon III fell from power; the medals disappeared from Reilly’s case labels yet continued occasionally to resurface on both labels and in advertisements for the next 15 years. (Reilly attempted to sell 6,000 Chassepot rifles to the new French Republic and was also prosecuted for attempting to smuggle 2,000 shells to his rue Scribe Address in Fall 1870, a violation of UK neutrality in the conflict).

In 1876 Reilly labels and publicity began advertising a connection to the King of Portugal and by 1882 to the Kings of Spain and The Netherlands. Also around 1876 he changed the description of the company in ads to "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" (as did many other English gun makers). This description was sometimes but not always used on his trade/case labels for the next 15 years.

In addition from as early as 1868 Reilly had evinced an interest in penetrating the American market. He acquired an American agent, had his guns advertised in mail order catalogs, and exhibited at the 1876 Philadelphia centennial along side very high-standard British guns such as Purdey, and won a medal.

Reilly again exhibited at the 1878 Paris exposition and again won medals. By 1880 Reilly sold a third more - soon to be twice as many - serial numbered, hand made bespoke guns than both Holland and Holland and Purdey combined, this in addition to a very active business in guns sold under license from well known gun makers including revolvers (Trantor, Baumont-Adams, Walker, etc), rook rifles, repeating rifles (Sharps, Winchester, etc.), as well as merchandising every type of gun accoutrement - reloaders, cartridges, shells, cases, etc. and sustaining a huge business in previously owned guns.

In November 1881 Oxford Street was renumbered; ”502” became “16 New Oxford Street” and “315” becoming “277 Oxford Street.” The first extant gun with either of the new addresses on the ribs is SN 23816. (In spite of the formal change in numbering, the old numbers occasionally appeared in Reilly ads and on gun ribs for the next couple of years).

Reilly’s business was booming and bespoke gun production topped 900 a year. He exhibited at the 1882 Calcutta fair (a British Empire only affair) and won a medal and was highly praised for his exhibit at the 1885 London International Inventions Exposition where he again won medals. Reilly guns dominated live pigeon shooting contests throughout the 1880’s and big game hunters in Africa used his guns and advertised the results (including Henry Morton Stanley, the Welsh-American and perhaps the most famous of all African explorers).

In July 1885 rue Scribe was closed. The reasons for this are not known - hand made guns were being sold at a very high rate; it may have had to do with the departure of a long-time partner (possibly a M. Poirat). The last extant SN’d gun with rue Scribe on the rib is 27340 (there are two guns with later serial numbers which may have Paris on their barrels). Note: Allegedly at some point in the 1880’s Reilly opened a branch establishment at 29 Rue du Faubourg, St Honore. This has not been confirmed; no guns with this address on the rib have been found; the only advertisement with this address appeared in Jan 1886 touting a win by an Italian at a Monte Carlo pigeon shoot).

Reilly exhibited at the 1889 Paris World's Fair, the “Tour Eiffel" Exposition Universalle, and may have won a silver medal. However, by this time advertisements for Reilly guns had significantly declined and he did not publicize the medals if he won them. A nasty law-suit on easement limitations to the Salavation Army Hall behind his establishment at 277 Oxford Street was litigated. The fact is, something changed with the firm after 1886; Reilly's guns regularly won competitions and were given as prizes; but the company just gradually disappeared from mass-media print.

In July 1890 EM Reilly passed away. Reilly's sons Herbert H. and Charles A. were young. His wife Mary was in her 40's. Business was still lively. Who ran the company during these years is not known though widows did successfully manage companies in England at the time after the deaths of their husbands. By 1894 Reilly guns were no longer being mentioned as winners in Pigeon shoots; Reilly victories and promotional donations of guns as prizes had been a prominent feature in London papers for 25 years. His oldest son Edward Montagu "gun maker," who was involved with the company in some way, died in 1895.

In 1898 the company closed 16 New Oxford Street where it had been located for 50 years; 277 Oxford Street remained open. Bespoke guns continued to be sold in the early 1890’s at a goodly clip but as the decade advanced, and factory mass produced guns with steel barrels began to compete with Damascus, the demand for these hand-made and measured guns in a middling cost category seemed to decline.

Reilly advertisements in mass media, an almost daily occurrence in the London press since 1833, declined markedly as the 90's progressed. In response, with sales diminishing, closing the finishing facilities at 16 New Oxford street while retaining the shooting gallery and smaller sales and manufacturing spaces at 277 Oxford Street would seem to have been logical.

The last extant SN’d gun from 16 New Oxford Street is 34723. After 1898 the trade/case labels changed to reflect the marketing of magazine guns and advertised the medals won in 1876 (Philadelphia), 1878 (Paris), and 1885 (London). On his presentation cases, the company description changed back to "gun and rifle makers" although the company was still "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" in phone and business directories.

In 1903 the Company vacated 277 Oxford Street where they had been quartered for 44 years while the building was being renovated and moved 300 yards down the street to 295 Oxford Street. The company apparently was run by Herbert H. (Bert) Reilly and Charles A. Reilly, EM Reilly’s sons. The first extant gun with 295 Oxford Street on the rib is 35422. The company remained at 295 until bankruptcy was declared on 06 June 1912. The last extant gun with 295 on the rib is 35678.

Bert Reilly opened a small gun shop, E.M Reilly & Co., at 13 High Street, Marylebone in 1912 after the bankruptcy. No advertisements can be found for the shop though per London postal address, telephone and business directories they identified themselves as "gunmakers." No guns with this address on the rib have been found. The date of its closure is not noted although it is listed in London telephone directories up to 1919 and in business directories to 1921.

In August 1922 The Reilly name was bought by a sporting goods dealer named Charles Riggs (most Reilly history summaries put the date of purchase as 1917; this is belied by the dates of newspaper advertising). Riggs apparently decided he could use the name to promote his premium line of guns (possibly built by BSA). Whether a Reilly had any say in the design of these Riggs-Reilly guns is unknown. Riggs remained in business until 1966. His “Reilly named” promotion guns have six-digit serial numbers and appear to begin at around 130000. A Riggs "Reilly" with a serial number in the 150000’s is known to exist. It is doubtful that all these Serial Numbers were "Reilly named" premium products.

The Reilly's sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1825 to 1912, all built by them. The guns that they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. they were one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was consistently classy. Reilly's best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.

Gene Williams, June 11, 2018
Posted by: Steve Nash

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/15/18 05:41 PM

Here's adding another E. M. Reilly gun to the mix, a double-barrelled 12-bore pinfire gun serial number 14672, with 30 in. barrels marked "E. M. Reilly & Co Oxford Street London" on the top rib. The plain back-action locks are marked "E. M. Reilly & Co London". The gun has very plain hammers and minor border engraving only. It is a very well-made but unadorned gun.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/15/18 06:38 PM

Thanks Steve, I'll be updating the summary page on all the SN'd guns I've got, last posted about six months ago, in a few weeks adding about 25 guns and adding stuff to the history sections...it'll be part of the historical justification for the above "New Short History of Reilly." 14672 should be 1867 per above.

Photos would be appreciated and enjoyed.
Posted by: Steve Nash

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/16/18 06:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Argo44
Thanks Steve, I'll be updating the summary page on all the SN'd guns I've got, last posted about six months ago, in a few weeks adding about 25 guns and adding stuff to the history sections...it'll be part of the historical justification for the above "New Short History of Reilly." 14672 should be 1867 per above.

Photos would be appreciated and enjoyed.


I'll try and post photos soon.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/17/18 09:47 AM

Just for comparison sake, here are a few comments on Reilly from the internet - auction houses, gun experts, etc. over the past 15 years. If you've followed this line, you'll note the obvious and repeated errors of fact in every one of them.

They're posted anonymously; I don't want to smear anyone; just to illustrate the difference between the then current widely accepted knowledge about Reilly and the above new short history. This includes Brown (though admittedly Brown didn't have much to go on at the time he wrote the book).

By the way trw999 had by far and away the best summary of the Reilly's on the internet at the time and I used his compilation as a starting point for my own research. http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=333352

Looking at actual gun serial numbers and ribs was a key starting point to researching the company and the two men; I hope this line has reestablished the history of a forgotten important London gun maker and brought their names out of the shadows.

========================================

Other Notes: Joseph Charles Reilly started business as a jeweller at 12 Middle Row, Holborn in 1816 (when his son Edward Michael Reilly was born) but, as was common in those days, he also sold guns. In 1832 Edward joined him in the business and by 1835 they were trading together as gunmakers at 316 High Holborn, moving regularly over the years before separating. Edward began trading on his own account as 'E. M. Reilly & Co' in 1869. As well as the London shop, Reilly also opened premises in Paris and, in 1898, upon the death of his father, Edward inherited that business. In 1911, probably on the retirement or death of Edward Reilly, the firm became a limited liability company and in 1912 they moved to 13 High Street, Marylebone. Reilly guns are generally of high quality and many are of the very best quality. The firm made a wide range of guns for the game and live-pigeon shooter and since the firm traded throughout the most inventive period of gunmaking history, the variety of Reilly guns encountered is wide.

===========================================

According to Nigel Brown's "British Gunmakers" , E.M. Reilly produced shotguns from around 1881 until at least 1916 in London in two locations and also had a retail store front on the Rue Scribe in Paris.

Reilly functioned in a similar fashion as did Scott, Webley and other London makers of the time in that his work was evenly divided between retail sales and also wholesale manufacture "to the trade". It appears that he made guns for several famous London makers who in turn marked his products with their Company names.

Reilly made weapons in several grades from pure field utilitarian (very plain) to extra fancy (heavy scroll engraving, cased, burl walnut grain stocks). Depending on the form and condition, the standard models retail from $325 to $450 and the higher grades up to $2,500 with collectors.

==========================================

Joseph Charles Reilly set up as a jeweler in 1816, and went into the gun business in 1835. His son Edward Michael joined him in 1848 and was well established by the time that breech-loading guns became popular. It is more than probable that E M Reilly built no guns himself but he contracted with the very best makers including at least WR and Thomas Turner, and he marketed their excellent guns under his own name, E. M. Reilly and Company since 1882. Reilly did well enough that for some years he maintained a shop in Paris as well. In an 1887 advertisement Reilly claimed to be gunmaker “By special appointment to His Majesty the King of Spain; His Majesty the King of Portugal; His Majesty the King of the Netherlands.” Two prominent Victorians were associated with E.M. Reilly. Sir Samuel Baker used a pair of Reilly 10 bores and inspired by Baker, Frederick Courtney Selous took a Reilly 10 bore to Africa on his first venture there. Selous’ gun was stolen shortly after he arrived and so it is mentioned only ruefully, but Sir Samuel’s pair achieved fame through his books. Because Baker was a hero to the Victorians and his books sold well, the fact that he used Reilly guns was a good endorsement.

==========================================

J.C.Reilly se establece con taller de joyería en 1816, en Holborn, mudandose en 1835 a 316 High Holborn. En 1848 su hijo Edmund M. Reilly, comienza a producir las primeras armas, mudando la firma a Londres, donde se establece en 1848, en 502 Oxford St. y posteriormente en 1903, al definitivo 277 y 295 de Oxford Street.
Podemos asegurar que entre 1915 y 1920,

Reilly fabrica algunas de las escopetas y rifles mas finos que podemos encontrar en Inglaterra.

Sus armas destacan por su extraordinario ajuste, la precisión relojera de su construcción, la calidad de los materiales, su seleccion de maderas y sus grabados, especialmente los tipo Scroll, de los que son verdaderos maestros en una época que podemos considerar de oro entre los grabadores ingleses. Alrededor de 1920 la firma es adquirida por Charles Rigss y desaparece la marca.

============================================

Other Notes: In 1867 E. M. Reilly & Co were awarded a Prize Medal at the Paris Exhibition and in 1869 opened up a premises in Paris as E. M. Reilly et Cie at 2 Rue Scribe, Paris. It was here they gained the appointment as gun maker to Napoleon III. This shop closed in 1872 and it wouldn't be until 1884 that a second premises was opened at 29 Rue du Faubourg, St Honore.

Holt's 'Shooting Calendar' for the year 1883 reported the number of wins at live pigeon shooting competitions by London made guns as: Reilly 82, Purdey 55, Lang 48, Grant 40, Hodges 34 and Holland 8.

By 1887 his trade labels have the additional acknowledgements of 'By special appointment to His Majesty the King of Spain; His Majesty the King of Portugal; His Majesty the King of the Netherlands.'

=============================================

Our Assessment: Starting as a jeweler in 1816 and later transforming into a gun making outfit in 1835 the Reilly company had an eye for detail and precision craftsmanship. In 1880, E.M. Reilly & CO was successful enough to open and keep a shop in Paris. In 1882, their trade label shows 315 Oxford Street as the main address with the Rue Scribe, Paris location also listed such as the markings found on the rib of this shotgun. As quoted from The Reilly Factor by John Campbell, “So what makes a Reilly gun so special? Well, for me, it’s the overall craftsmanship and precision they embody. Like the more famous names such as Purdey and Holland & Holland, a Reilly is almost always beautifully proportioned and fitted with the finest of English walnut stocks. The locks and metal fits are precisely achieved and beautifully polished and fit. And Reilly engraving is not only classically English, it is flawlessly executed. Even in its more simple expositions.”

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REILLY
Edward Michael Son of Joseph Charles. Gunmaker with father, 1841 Census (age 24). Airgun maker, 502 Oxford Street, 1848-60. Published a Treatise on Air Guns, c 1850. Granted British Patent No. 1259 (Explosive bullet), 1869. Became E.M. Reilly & Co., 1861. Developed in wholesale gun makers, in business until 1917. 

Joseph Charles Jeweller, 12 Middle Row, Holborn, 1816-35. Gunmaker, 316 High Holborn, 1835-47; 502 Oxford Street, 1848-58. Became Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford Street., 1859. re-numbered 277 Oxford Street, 1881; taken over by E.M. Reilly & Co., 1899. 

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Reilly made or marked shotguns from the late percussion era (say 1860) through about 1915. I've seen many hammer guns, fewer hammerless, but both side lock and box lock. Their name also appears on handguns and rifles.\n. \nQuality seems to be higher than average, with most guns showing good engraving and better than average wood. Most barrels are damascus, but I've seen Whitworth, and many have been "tubed" in the modern era.\n. \nGenerally nice pieces

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E.M. Reilly & Co.

Edward Michael Reilly was a London gunmaker born 1816 who entered his father’s business in 1848. By 1861 the firm was called Edward M. Reilly & Co., which later evolved into E.M Reilly & Co. The firm was located in Oxford Street throughout its existence, but the numbers changed sometimes because the firm moved and sometimes because the buildings were renumbered.

For awhile in the 1880’s, the firm had an outlet on Rue Scribe in Paris - an indication of how successful the company was.

Although it was not a household name E.M Reilly was well respected and its products were used by two of the most famous hunters of the Victorian age Sir Samuel Baker and Frederick Courteney Selous. Baker used a pair of E.M. Reilly 10 bores to back up his monstrous “Baby”; Reading of this and seeking seeking to emulate the much admired Baker, Selous took a Reilly 12 bore with him on his first venture to Africa but the gun was stolen shortly after he landed.

E.M. Reilly lasted until 1917 when it was bought out by Charles Riggs & Co., which sold shooting accessories. The Reilly name disappeared from gun making.

Reilly is known to have made hammer guns and boxlocks most of which were probably made in Birmingham and finished at the shop in London. Its boxlocks ranged from very basic to genuine bests.

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I've been doing some internet research on Reilly. There is dispute as to whether the E.M. Reilly Company were manufacturers or retailers only. They were active and lasted in one form or another for almost 60 years, from the early 1840's well into the 1890's. They exhibited their Guns, Shotguns and Rifles in numerous Exhibitions, and seemed to specialize in double barreled weapons. Notably for large game .."Elephants, Tigers and Bison." They were early proponents of the breech loader, and sponsored a competition in which they equaled the best muzzle loaders of the day.
Their earliest shop was at 502 New Oxford Street in London.

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1848-1860: EDWARD MICHAEL REILLY (b.1816, son of J.C. Reilly q.v.) , gunmaker, worked with father 1841; air gun maker 502 Oxford Street,
1861-1868: EDWARD M. REILLY & CO., s.a. 1861-1869;
1870-1874: 502 and 315 Oxford Street,1870-1874;
1875-1882: 502 Oxford Street only 1875-1882;
1883-1898: 10 New Oxford Street 1883-1898;
1899: succeeded to business of REILLY & CO., q.v. 1899;
277 Oxford Street (315 renumbered 1881), t.a. E.M. REILLY CO., 1901-1902………

British Gunmakers, Nigel Brown Volume One - London. Your beautiful cased Reilly brought 2,800 GBP exclusive of Buyer's Premium at Holt's December, 1977 Main Sale. You gun was made between 1883-1898 as he was at the New Oxford Street address during those years.

"In 1859 J C Reilly became Reilly & Co and moved to 315 Oxford Street (later named "Armoury House"), Joseph Manton's old premises and next door to James Purdey. E M Reilly stayed at 502 New Oxford Street. In 1860 Edward M Reilly became Edward M Reilly & Co.

From 1870 to 1874 E M Reilly & Co traded from both 502 New Oxford Street and 315 Oxford Street, and in 1869 Edward started trading as E M Reilly et Cie at 2 Rue Scribe, Paris; reportedly, this shop closed in 1872.

From 1875 to 1882 E M Reilly traded only from 502 Oxford Street leaving J C Reilly on his own at 315 Oxford Street. In 1881 315 Oxford Street was re-numbered 277 Oxford Street (James Purdey ocupied 314-315 Oxford Street which, possibly because of sub-division and re-arrangement of the shopfronts/building, he called 314 1/2, it became 287-289).

The re-numbering of Oxford Street included No. 502 New Oxford Street which was re-numbered to 16 New Oxford Street.

At some time between 1884 and 1898 E M Reilly opened another shop in Paris, this time at 29 Rue du Faubourg, St Honore. When it closed is not known. In 1898, on the death of his father, Edward inherited his father's business and closed at 16 New Oxford Street.”

============================================

Volume 3 of Nigel Brown's BRITISH GUNMAKERS - (courtesy of Lagopus.)

REILLY EDWARD MICHAEL/& Co/REILLY JOSEPH CHARLES. E.M. Reilly was the son of Joseph and took over the business in 1899 having been separated in business on his own account since 1848. Since it looks as though Edward may have continued his father’s numbering system at least initially, I have therefore tabulated both their records together. E.M Reilly was last recorded as such in 1917 but Charles Riggs & Co., who set up in 1909, started advertising himself as Charles Riggs & Co. (incorporating E.M. Reilly & co., Est. 100 years) c.1942 and from the look of the last Reilly gun noted he may well have been using the name a little before that. Reilly put out a large number of guns as can be seen from the Nos. noted - not all of which are listed. There was a Paris branch in the Rue Scribe certainly in the 1870’s and 1880’s.

Followed by a list of guns with numbers and dates starting with c.1840 No. 254, a percussion pistol, and ending in 1936/7 with number 150570.


Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/18/18 08:02 PM

I made a resolution to post nothing more about Reilly except for the extensive historical justification for the above short history. But here is are period pictures of Reilly's London buildings.
-- 16 (502) Oxford Street about 1885....(identified from a picture of the Tottenham (Flying Horse) Pub then located at 2 or 6 Oxford Street.) and a modern view of same.
-- 277 (316) Oxford Street about 1890 and a modern view of same with the "Marker building" of 1 Harwood Pl, Mayfair which still exists.
-- 295 Oxford Street about 1885, 18 years before the Reilly's moved in (with the Harwood "marker building") and modern pictures from google about 2005.

For those who wonder where were the Reilly finishing facilities, look at the size of 16 and 277...those buildings were huge. Also the fronts of each seem similar - no awnings, greco-bank style entrances; solidity, success. And check out the clientele on Oxford Street at the time - no flip flops, athletic shorts, tee shirts; just the stylish upwardly mobile.

================================ 16 Oxford Street ================================
Original building as pictured on Reilly labels 1848-1859; At some point before 1880 the building was modernized.


Picture of the Flying Horse (later Tottenham) Pub located at 2 or 6 Oxford Street about 1885. Arrow points to 16 Oxford Street. Note window pattern is the same as the modern building below. The "eyebrow" building (now a McDonalds) and the two buildings that seem to step down toward Reilly's 16 Oxford Street are still there. The Flying horse in the small two story building (without awning) in the picture was torn down and the new ornate Empire style building built where the pub is now.


Google photo of the area. 16 Oxford street is the arrow



================================ 277 Oxford Street ================================

277 Oxford Street about 1890


Google view of the area today with 277, the shooting gallery and the "marker building" at 1 Harwood, which permits confirming the location.



================================ 295 Oxford Street ================================

Here is 295 Oxford Street in 1885, about 18 years before Reilly moved into the building in 1903 while 277, further down the street towards Regents (Oxford) Circus was being rebuilt. The "marker building 1 Harwood is identified.



Google views of 295 Oxford from about 2005 with the Harwood building as a marker.



Posted by: Reilly

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/09/18 08:58 AM

I am a descendant of JC Reilly and Edward Michael Reilly, they are my 3x great-grandfather and 2x great grandfather, respectively. My name is Sally Reilly.

I have very much enjoyed looking through the information that has been posted about the business, in particular, all the photos of the guns and labels.

I have a a bit of information I can add to what you have already, more about the family that the actual guns.

His granddaughter Martha Stephens explained why he came over to England in a book she wrote about her father, She wrote that he was the son of a Squire who was sent to England to study and become a barrister. She explained, “This was because Roman Catholics were not allowed in Ireland to enter any profession and there was no other course for him to be duly qualified” I assume he came over between 1805 and 1812. (I have no information about the family in Ireland)

The first record I have found for JC Reilly was his marriage to Martha Barkley, at St Andrews Holborn, on 17 May 1812. They went on to have four children, Ann b. 7th Mar 1813, Ellen or Elinor b. 30 March 1815, Edward Michael Reilly, b. 1 Sept 1817 and Charles Joseph Reilly, b. 4 July 1819. (Source: Documents held at Wiltshire and Swindon Archives).

Anne Reilly married Henry Stephens FRCS, a surgeon and ink manufacturer and they had 7 children, one of whom became an MP, and one of which wrote a booklet about her father Henry Stephens in which she refers to her mothers family, the Reilly's. In particular she mentions grandparents JC Reilly and Martha, and her Aunt Ellen. She described the marriage of Joseph and Martha as ‘It was a most unfortunate union for her’. We can assume this was partly due to the character of Joseph Charles Reilly as she wrote “Joseph Charles Reilly was selfish, harsh, (and) neglectful of everything but his own comfort. No one had a good word to say of him.”

Ellen never married, and spent quite a bit of time in Paris, France.

Edward Michael Reilly went into the gun making business, as you are already aware.

Charles Joseph Reilly, I believe spent some time in New York as an Agent for Stephens Ink, I have very little other information about him.

Joseph Charles Reilly’s business was obviously successful, as in 1824 whilst still living at 12 Middle Row, he bought a property called Bourne End Farm (now called Hill Green), in Cranfield, Bedfordshire for £1625.

The 1841 Census, recorded Joseph Reilly, aged 61, a Gunmaker, born in Ireland living in Holborn. Also living in the same household was Martha Reilly, aged 54, Elinor, aged 26, both born in the same county, Middlesex and Edward Reilly aged 24, a Gunmaker, not born in the same county. There was another member of the household aged 20 years, a female servant, The actual address that Joseph Charles and his family were living at was 12 Middle Row, as this is recorded on other sources, namely directories and electoral registers.

Joseph Charles moved to 502 Oxford Street, Bloomsbury, Finsbury in 1848, he held a tenancy agreement on this address from 1848 to 1860 onwards. In 1881 this was renumbered 16 New Oxford Street. This was the address he was living at on the night of the 1851 census. He claimed to be a widower. (We know this is not true, as his wife Martha was found to be living with their daughter Anne Stephens.) His occupation was Gunmaker and his birth place was recorded as Granard, Ireland. Also living with him was a servant. I think Joseph and Martha were estranged.

He moved again in 1859, taking out another tenancy agreement on 315 Oxford Street, which backed onto Salvation Army Hall.

The 1861 Census, recorded Joseph Charles Reilly, aged 73, living at Bourn End, Cranfield as head of the household. Again he claims to be a widower, which this time is correct. (We know that Martha Reilly nee Barkley died in November 1960.) His occupation was recorded as Fund holder and Land Proprietor and his birth place as Ireland, Bonin. (Not been able to find out where this is it does not seem to exist) Living with him was a young, unmarried housekeeper, aged 23, called Elizabeth May from Buckinghamshire.

Joseph Charles Reilly died on 11th January 1864, aged 79 at Cranfield, Bedfordshire. According to his death record he died of ‘decay of nature’, old age. Susanna Hailey was present at the death and left her mark, suggesting she was illiterate. It is likely that she was his house-keeper.

Joseph Charles was buried in the Graveyard of the Parish Church in Cranfield, Church of St Peter & Paul. He requested in his will that he wanted to be buried in 'in a plain manner and that a decent stone be placed at the head of my grave with the inscription "Joseph Charles Reilly formerly Gun Maker London”.'

I have more information about E M Reilly that I will post another day.

Sally
Posted by: Steve Nash

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/09/18 09:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Reilly
I am a descendant of JC Reilly and Edward Michael Reilly, they are my 3x great-grandfather and 2x great grandfather, respectively. My name is Sally Reilly.

I have very much enjoyed looking through the information that has been posted about the business, in particular, all the photos of the guns and labels.

I have a a bit of information I can add to what you have already, more about the family that the actual guns.

His granddaughter Martha Stephens explained why he came over to England in a book she wrote about her father, She wrote that he was the son of a Squire who was sent to England to study and become a barrister. She explained, “This was because Roman Catholics were not allowed in Ireland to enter any profession and there was no other course for him to be duly qualified” I assume he came over between 1805 and 1812. (I have no information about the family in Ireland)

The first record I have found for JC Reilly was his marriage to Martha Barkley, at St Andrews Holborn, on 17 May 1812. They went on to have four children, Ann b. 7th Mar 1813, Ellen or Elinor b. 30 March 1815, Edward Michael Reilly, b. 1 Sept 1817 and Charles Joseph Reilly, b. 4 July 1819. (Source: Documents held at Wiltshire and Swindon Archives).

Anne Reilly married Henry Stephens FRCS, a surgeon and ink manufacturer and they had 7 children, one of whom became an MP, and one of which wrote a booklet about her father Henry Stephens in which she refers to her mothers family, the Reilly's. In particular she mentions grandparents JC Reilly and Martha, and her Aunt Ellen. She described the marriage of Joseph and Martha as ‘It was a most unfortunate union for her’. We can assume this was partly due to the character of Joseph Charles Reilly as she wrote “Joseph Charles Reilly was selfish, harsh, (and) neglectful of everything but his own comfort. No one had a good word to say of him.”

Ellen never married, and spent quite a bit of time in Paris, France.

Edward Michael Reilly went into the gun making business, as you are already aware.

Charles Joseph Reilly, I believe spent some time in New York as an Agent for Stephens Ink, I have very little other information about him.

Joseph Charles Reilly’s business was obviously successful, as in 1824 whilst still living at 12 Middle Row, he bought a property called Bourne End Farm (now called Hill Green), in Cranfield, Bedfordshire for £1625.

The 1841 Census, recorded Joseph Reilly, aged 61, a Gunmaker, born in Ireland living in Holborn. Also living in the same household was Martha Reilly, aged 54, Elinor, aged 26, both born in the same county, Middlesex and Edward Reilly aged 24, a Gunmaker, not born in the same county. There was another member of the household aged 20 years, a female servant, The actual address that Joseph Charles and his family were living at was 12 Middle Row, as this is recorded on other sources, namely directories and electoral registers.

Joseph Charles moved to 502 Oxford Street, Bloomsbury, Finsbury in 1848, he held a tenancy agreement on this address from 1848 to 1860 onwards. In 1881 this was renumbered 16 New Oxford Street. This was the address he was living at on the night of the 1851 census. He claimed to be a widower. (We know this is not true, as his wife Martha was found to be living with their daughter Anne Stephens.) His occupation was Gunmaker and his birth place was recorded as Granard, Ireland. Also living with him was a servant. I think Joseph and Martha were estranged.

He moved again in 1859, taking out another tenancy agreement on 315 Oxford Street, which backed onto Salvation Army Hall.

The 1861 Census, recorded Joseph Charles Reilly, aged 73, living at Bourn End, Cranfield as head of the household. Again he claims to be a widower, which this time is correct. (We know that Martha Reilly nee Barkley died in November 1960.) His occupation was recorded as Fund holder and Land Proprietor and his birth place as Ireland, Bonin. (Not been able to find out where this is it does not seem to exist) Living with him was a young, unmarried housekeeper, aged 23, called Elizabeth May from Buckinghamshire.

Joseph Charles Reilly died on 11th January 1864, aged 79 at Cranfield, Bedfordshire. According to his death record he died of ‘decay of nature’, old age. Susanna Hailey was present at the death and left her mark, suggesting she was illiterate. It is likely that she was his house-keeper.

Joseph Charles was buried in the Graveyard of the Parish Church in Cranfield, Church of St Peter & Paul. He requested in his will that he wanted to be buried in 'in a plain manner and that a decent stone be placed at the head of my grave with the inscription "Joseph Charles Reilly formerly Gun Maker London”.'

I have more information about E M Reilly that I will post another day.

Sally


Thank you very much for this information. I look forward to reading more about E M Reilly.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/09/18 12:44 PM

Sally, Many thanks for your contribution about the Reilly family and it is remarkable. The birth dates of EM from 1816 to 1817 and the date of the death of JC from 1863 to 1864 have been corrected.

The date of the move from 316 High Holborn to 502 New Oxford has been kept as 23 March 1847 rather than 1848 per the following London newspaper advertisements.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . .20 March 1847, "Morning Post" ("Removing to another establishment..")


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 03 April 1847 "London News" ("Removed from Holborn")


BLISSETT occupied 316 High Holborn and advertised in April 1847 that these were the former premises of Reilly.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 April 1847, "Illustrated London News" ("Formerly Reilly's")


The effect of anti-Catholic sentiment in Britain at the time on JC and EM Reilly has been a curiosity. Also, England at the time was such a class conscious society. One of my favorite books is "Mr. American," of course written by George MacDonald Fraser (creator of "Flashman" series), about an American gun fighter who made a fortune, wound up in England about 1895 and ran smack into the English class structure...there were something like 175 identified classes and the "proper etiquette" for each class towards each class seems almost as complicated as the Hindu Caste structure in India at the time.

Also it doesn't surprise about the egos or managerial practices of either JC or EM - both created and ran an important company; I think EM had a real gift for marketing.

In the above I've tried to recreate the Reilly serial number chronology and have concentrated on the gun-making. Now we all have something concrete about the men and the family - this fills out the picture of the idividuals. We look forward to more about Edward Michael. For history, we'd all be particularly interested in who ran the company after his death in 1890 and how the Reilly name came to be associated with Charles Riggs in 1922. And, if you have any pictures of either man, they would be much appreciated. Again many thanks - what a pleasant surprise and a historical gift.

Gene Williams

Edit: Also anything you might have on on his Paris branch would be much appreciated. Do you have any info on who ran the Paris store and why EM closed it? The fact his sister spent a lot of time there is fascinating.
Posted by: Steve Nash

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/09/18 03:17 PM

Here is E. M. Reilly & Co. No. 14672, a 12-bore pinfire game gun, unmarked double bite screw-grip action, with minimal decorative engraving. While it is 'plain', the beautiful build quality nevertheless shows through.



Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/10/18 04:49 PM

========================================================================================================================================
1830 - 1890 - Reilly making his own guns
-- These posts provide definitive evidence that Reilly manufactured his own guns...QED:

The question of whether Reilly made his own guns has been repeatedly asked with the usual internet response being "No."

From TRW999's post: "In the 1881 census Edward was recorded living at 315 Oxford Street, before it was re-numbered. He was recorded living with his wife, Mary A (b.1848 in London), 31 years his junior. His children were listed as Charles A (b.1871), Herbert (b.1875) and Gerard (b.1878), all were born in London. Charles A, being born in 1871 suggests that Edward and Mary A were married shortly before 1871 and suggests that Edward could have been previously married and had children. Interestingly, Edward described himself in the census as a gun maker employing 300 men. This figure may have been a transcription error because it is an extraordinarily large number and there is no record of any Reilly factory in London or Birmingham.

The correct answer as detailed above repeatedly and reiterated below: "Yes, the Reilly's made their own guns and did so in their large buildings in London.".
-- they responded to orders 3 times as fast as other London gun makers and could make special orders;
-- by early 1880's they were making over 1,000 serial numbered guns a year + a huge business in guns made under license engraved and marketed by them.
-- It was virtually a factory output - they had to have had their own finishers, engravers, stockers, as has been speculated above; they may have imported barrel stocks and actions from Birmingham but their guns were made in-house.

========================================================================================================================================
1830 - Reilly making his own guns

..........18 July 1830, "Bell's Life."


===========================================================================================
1831 - Reilly makes his own guns (continued)


May 1831 Advertisement from "The New Sporting Magazine."
1) He's making his own guns and calls himself "Gunmaker" - in Jan 1831 rings and jewelry were stolen from his store - this ad may therefore be the first in which he identifies solely as "gunmaker.";
2) He's advertising guns and pistols - at this time he was still serial numbering pistols in his chronology;
2) these are at very moderate prices (see business model);
3) There is mentioned of "Patent Breech" which appears on a couple of his pre 1845 guns. Believe this is the Henry Nock patent.



================================================================================================================
1840 - Reilly making his own guns (continued)


I ran across a note that London gunmaker and Reilly friend HJ Blanch had compiled a notebook of various ads and gun related subjects that had been turned over to the Royal Armories probably about 1905 when he died. On P.15 was an ad by Joseph Charles Reilly at 316 High Holborn (1835-47). Royal Armories sent a photo copy. Much of it is the usual found in newspapers. But this is interesting because it adds weight to the argument that Reilly indeed made or and the very least finished his own guns.
. .1) The ad refers to Reilly's "own guns" and to a barrel boring process he used.
. .2) He could fulfill "peculiar orders" in 4-5 weeks and could rebore barrels.
To do this he had to be able to make his own guns and to have a barrel boring machine on his premises.
..3)Oh yes, note the problem of forgeries which existed even at that time.




================================================================================================================
1861 - Reilly making his own guns (continued)

..........April 14, 1861, "Bell's Life." If Reilly wasn't making his own guns, he sure as heck couldn't have allowed gentlemen to "superintend the progress of their gun."


===========================================================================================
1861 - Reilly makes his own guns (continued)


Reilly made his own guns and on his own premises. There are enough ads and articles around to confirm this now, this in addition to the 1880 census in which Reilly said he employed 300 workers. If there is any doubt that London gun makers made guns on their premises, the bankruptcy inventory of Joseph Manton's building in 1826 included boring machines, lathes, etc. Here are some more ads:

..........11 Jul 1861 "Volunteer's Service Gazette"


..........28 Sept 1861, "Bell's Life"


..........17 Aug 1862 "Bell's Life" - review of guns at the 1862 London World's Fair



================================================================================================================
1862 - Reilly making his own guns (continued)


..........1862 London exposition catalog with Reilly's entry - identifies his manufacturing location as 315 Oxford Street:


================================================================================================================
1862 - Reilly making his own guns (continued)

In an early (1862) advertisement he guaranteed guns he made himself (though by 1880 he was guaranteeing everything that he sold).

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/02/18 07:09 PM

================================================================================================================
1862 - Reilly making his own guns (continued) - workshop location

Where were his workshops? 1862 at 502 New Oxford Street. Well take a look at his two buildings at 16 (originally 502) New Oxford Street and 277 (originally 315) Oxford Street. 16 Oxford Street is HUGE….It must have 20,000 sq feet of floor space. 277 Oxford Street is almost as big. And since he had a 50 yard shooting gallery at 277 Oxford Street it had to be behind the building in some fashion. (The Quonset hut in the photo is the old Salvation Army hall which gave rise to the name "Amoury House" for 277 and was there throughout the 44 year stay of Reilly at the address). There gentlemen are the Reilly workshops.

.................16 (502) Oxford Street Today........................................................277 (315) Oxford Street Today


...........................502 Oxford Street on Reilly Labels 1858-59


================================================================================================================
1882 - Reilly making his own guns (continued)

Also as an aside in addition to the many articles providing evidence that Reilly made his own guns.
..........1882 Grace's Guide Advert:


===========================================================================================
1863 - Reilly makes guns for British Royalty


Reilly for a brief moment tried to claim to be a gun maker for the Prince of Wales. Well, it turned out he made a gun for future Edward VII but others apparently were to be given away as presents; apparently the royals wouldn't let him put that on his ads:

..........11 Mar 1863 "London Daily News" - lights put up by Reilly to celebrate the Prince's wedding


..........10 Nov 1863 "London Evening Post" - on the Prince's birthday


Prince Alfred seemed to like to give away Reilly's. Another article shows him giving a Reilly gun as a gift to an Indian Rajah,
..........24 Apr 1863 "Morning Advertiser" and repeated in many other papers


================================================================================================================
1820-1912 - Reilly making his own guns (continued) - Both off the rack and bespoke


As long suspected, Reilly sold his own EM Reily named guns both ready-made/off the rack and bespoke/made to order. This may explain some of the SN differences. Though we'll never know for sure unless additional information turns up, Reilly probably SN'd his guns when sold or when ordered and paid for. This may explain Terry Lubinski's 303xx - SN'd in 1888-89 but with "Not for Ball" on the barrel (1887) or my case label 26584 (1884) with "1886" written on the label. This may also be a later development beginning about 1880 with a marketing decision to sell off the rack. And it might explain the spurt to over 1000 SN guns being made per year in the early 1880's. This may merit a new post. Here is an 1888 advertisement in Turner which seems to confirm this:

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/04/18 12:59 PM

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1885 - Closing of rue Scribe


Reilly closed rue Scribe in late July 1885 not in 1886 as has been widely accepted (including by me)...this will require a re-doing of the number chronology above. This conclusion is based on reviewing advertisements in the London Press for 1885-86. Reilly posted virtually the same ad in "Bell's Life in London and Sporting Chronicle" (Which became "Sporting Life" in summer 1886) every week for years. Here is the change in advertisements.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 Jul 1885. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .08 Aug 1885



I think the assumption that Reilly closed rue Scribe in 1886 was caused by long-term advertisements in publications with a long-lead time, which were published yearly such as these.

. . . "Bradshaw's Railroad Guide (Paris) 1886. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . ."Burke's Landed Gentry" 1886


The number chronology has been redone. There are also changes in dates in the narrative. "Gun-Maker" first appeared in Reilly advertisements in 1833 rather than 1834. The name of the firm switched in ads from J.C. Reilly back to "Reilly" in June 1840 rather than 1841, etc. Not a big deal except for historians since all I'm trying to do is date the gun serial numbers...but worth noting.

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1886 - rue du Faubourg, St. Honore revisited


In addition, here is likely the reason it has been claimed that Reilly opened a shop on rue du Faubourg, St. Honore in Paris. The ads for this event appeared in London papers on 28 Jan - 01 Feb 1886 only. These are the only references to rue du Faubourg and Reilly found. At virtually the same time - 30 Jan 1886 and 23 Jan 1886, "Bell's Life" published the usual ads in the above format without mentioning rue du Faubourg. The conclusion must be that 1) either the ad was place by the winner of the competition Signor Guidicini and it was he who made an error - the competition was in Monte Carlo (Monaco) after all. or 2) the rue du Faubourg address was indeed on the gun, which means a branch on that street did exist at some time. More newspapers will be searched to look for ads to determine when (if) it opened/closed; might have to go to Parisian Journeaux. Welcome any additional information on this subject. Edited: See p.21 for existence of Rue du Faubourg, St. Honore labels.

EDIT: The entire London newspaper database has been searched for the 1880's...in several ways, "Reilly," "Reilly and guns," "Faubourg," "Faubourg and Reilly," etc. The only references to Faubourg and Reilly are the below articles and advertisements which appeared in the "Sportsman" and "Morning Post from 28 Jan 1886 to 1 Feb 1886. There was a well-to-do English ex-Pat community on rue du Faubourg; English tailors worked on the street for years; there was a French gunmaking concern there as well. It was even then a prestigious address; Reilly would not have kept it secret. Thus unless someone has other information, it must be assumed that the rue du Faubourg address for Reilly in the below ads is not correct.

. . . . . . . . . ."The Sportsman" 28/01/1886. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ."The Morning Post" 29/01/1886


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1885 - Reilly last guns at rue Scribe (repost)


The last extant gun with rue Scribe on the rib is 27340 (and I've not seen the actual photos).
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27340. (No photos)
E.M. REILLY &. Co.- Oxford Street LONDON & Rue Scribe - PARIS.: Hammergun Side by Side, 12 bore,gun number 27340 London proof mark.Price Euro 1.850. Both guns have damas barrel, owner say in good condition auctioned at www.czernys.com/ in 2005
https://www.internetgunclub.com/~inte8406/archived-forum/posts.php?topicid=288


Terry Buffum mentioned he had a couple of guns 27570 and 27854 which had "Paris" on their barrels (he said 27854 address was unclear). This also would change the chronology significantly if true but I hesitate to start moving things around until I can see the inscription..And there were a few intervening SN's without rue Scribe...There's a lot of "internet legend" around (although Terry can be counted on).
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27854. (no photos of rib)
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/110/133.php
serial #27854, 12 ga., 30" barrels with bright excellent bores choked full and full. This shotgun is built on a W. & C. Scott crystal indicator action with side clips and with each lock being engraved "E.M. REILLY & CO. / LONDON". The markings on the tops of the barrel are difficult to read but appear to be the E.M. Reilly & Company name and London address on the left barrel and a Paris address on the right barrel. The shotgun was part of a set and is numbered "2" in gold on dolls head rib extension and engraved on interior forend metal. The barrels are Birmingham nitro proofed for 2 3/4" shells with 1 1/16 oz. loads. The minimum wall thickness is generally .0245 with one small area that gets to .023. The action and locks show near full coverage tight English scroll engraving with a nice round flower panel on top of action. The barrels retain about 95% evenly thinning restored blue finish overall. The action and locks show an even gray patina and remain very smooth and free of pitting. The checkered straight grip walnut buttstock and splinter forend rate very good plus as refinished long ago. The gun features a 14 5/8" length of pull over checkered butt and shows drops of 1 1/2" and 2 3/8". The gun locks up tight and points beautifully. A neat crystal indicator sidelever Reilly Ejectorgun. (17147-176) {C&R} [Terry Buffum Collection]


Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/04/18 06:21 PM

The Reilly SN chart above (p.17) has been updated with all the caveats - it'll get you close to the year your gun was produced but includes subjective information. It includes changes reflecting 1857 date of JC's retirement vice Dec 1858; July 1885 date of the closure of rue Scribe vice summer 1886, etc.

It's hard for me to post that Reilly production soared to 950 bespoke guns a year in the early 1880's but that's what the serial numbers say. It also makes Reilly's decline in the 1890's more dramatic. As soon as EM died in 1890 it's as if someone forgot to promote the company's wares. Advertisements just disappeared and by 1894, Reilly's guns disappeared from the Pigeon shooting winners' circle in newspaper results as well.

One assumes it was competition from factory mass-produced guns - a lot of UK gun-makers went into decline about this time...but surely a failure in basic marketing had something to do with it too.

The "New Short History of Reilly of London, Gunmaker" (P.17 above) has been also edited. It would be nice to provide hard information on Reilly from about the closure of 16 New Oxford Street in 1898 to bankruptcy in 1912. But a lot of what's known about Reilly comes from advertisements, gun ribs and case trade labels. If these don't exist, there's nothing really more to report until other resources become available. For instance neither the exact date of the 1898 closure of 16 New Oxford St., nor the 1903 move to 295 Oxford can be established so far. Sally hopefully can help.

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1900 - 1912??? - Decline in Reilly quality??

Here are a few posts of Reilly's engraving from the 1890's- through about 1905. There looks to be a marked decline in quality for their middle level guns after about 1900 (high quality guns like Toby's former 35079 appear to still be good quality"). This may be an indication of the troubles the company faced; Bert Reilly just couldn't keep up with the times or with the quality.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . .30846 (1889). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33358 (1895). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .33619 (1895)


. . . . . . . . .34442 (1897). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .34723 (1898). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .34865 (1899)



Best Gun (formerly Toby Barclay's) 35079 (1900)


. . . . . . . . . . . . . .1901-1905 engraving

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/08/18 04:20 PM

I know people are fed up with this line - but these posts are interesting enough to make note of for the Reilly historian:

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1857 - Retirement of JC Reilly


According to this advertisement in the 02 Sep 1857 edition of "London Daily News," J.C. Reilly retired at the end to 1857 (rather than late 1858) and turned everything over to his son Edward. This will effect dating of the J.C. "7000" series serial numbered guns. The above chart will be changed, as will the above narrative "New Short History." It also means that E.M. did not change the name of the company until a year after his father's retirement.



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1862 - 1864 - Reilly and the Green Bros Breech Loader -2


A Reilly-made Green-Brothers patent breech loader is posted above in the Military gun series. It is SN 13333 and it gave problems in dating Reilly Serial Numbers in the 1860's. It was Reilly made gun nr. 23. Green bros took out their patent in Spring 1862. However, per the below ads, Reilly did not put his first Green brothers guns on the market until April 1864 and the trials really got underway in June-July. In the SN Chart above, 13333 is pretty much in the middle of 1864, an indication of the essential accuracy of those estimates:



..........22 Apr 1864 "London Daily News"


..........04 Apr 1864 "London Daily News" - part of a review of the gun


..........29/Jul1864 "Morning Post" reporting on testing of the Green Bros against others including the Snider:


Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/08/18 04:24 PM

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1862 - Reilly and Sarawak


A good story about an Anglican bishop out in Sarawak (Rajah Brooke - James Brooke -, an Englishman who shot his way to power in the 1840's and whose family remained in charge in Sarawak for 120 years called the "White Raja" until it was merged with Malaysia in 1960). The "Biship" with Rajah Brooke used a Reilly to kill some 80 pirates and his ship rammed and sank three pirate boats. There was lots of hand-wringing in England about those poor boys - reminds you of 9/11 and the sympathy for those poor dears in Guantanamo.

..........09 July 1862 "Bell's Life"


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1871 - Reilly and his first Martini-Henry


Here is more evidence that the above Serial Number Date chart is pretty accurate. The first extant Reilly Serial Numbered Martini-Henry that I can find is 17314. The Chart dates it to late 1871. Here is the first Reilly ad I've found so far that mentions Martini-Henry's - dated December 1871:

..........25 December 1871, "The Graphic"


Reilly did not serial number Martini-Henry's he did not build. And he did not serial number very many Martini's - It seems the Enfield factory would send you the parts to be assembled if you wanted to sell a Martini. He must of built this gun very early on, perhaps one of the very first - The Martini-Henry wasn't adopted until summer 1871 - which may explain why it was serial numbered.




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1877 - 79 - Reilly and 20 bores


Finally a book review about a book written by hunting correspondent "Wildfowler" who used a Reilly 20 bore and a sample of his writing.

..........15 Feb 1879 "Sporting & Dramatic News"


..........29 Sep 1977 "Bell's Life"
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/11/18 01:44 PM

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1889 - Reilly exhibits at Tour Eiffel World's Fair


Per the 18 September 1889 edition of "Morning Post," Reilly did exhibit at the 1889 Paris Exposition Universelle, the "Tour Eiffel" World's Fair and may have won a silver medal (the article is unclear but implies all English gun makers won at least silver medals). The historical narrative will be changed above.

If he won a medal he never featured it on his case labels, - it was not on the post 1898 label that feature medals from the 1873 Vienna, 1876 Philadelphia, 1878 Paris or 1885 London fairs, or in the few ads which can be found after 1889. (On the other hand, of all the World's Fair medals displayed on all sorts of labels, stationary, ads etc., the one you DON'T see ever is the 1889 fair medals - can't say why that is.

In fact newspaper ads just dried up after 1886. From 1887-1892 Reilly's guns are mention in the UK Press virtually every week winning shooting contests and being given away as prizes. However, without ads or articles to put the wins into context, it's hard to know what was going on with the firm. (Edit: There are ads right up to May 1912 - just can't access them for the moment).. If anyone stumbles onto advertisements for Reilly after 1890, please let me know the link. Also there are precious few original Case Labels from that time period of you get hold of one.

.....18 September 1889 "Morning Post." From the article one infers that all British gun makers won medals.


.....PAGE 152 of the official 1889 Paris Exhibition Catalog:
https://archive.org/details/internationalex02commgoog


Per this advertisement from the 1889 Exposition catalog, Grubb of Philadelphia was still his USA Agent - had been since 1868:
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/13/18 04:54 PM

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Sep 1857 - Autumn 1860 - "Reilly, Gun Maker" becomes "E.M. Reilly & Co.," becomes "Gun Manufacturer"


Again this is for the Reilly historian (this gets pretty nit-picking) though it may bear on dating serial numbers and certainly on dating labels: After looking at every ad I can find the "New Short History" above for the period 1857-1860 has been modified - I've tried to keep that history as simple as possible concentrating on serial numbers, because really gyrations of the firm at the time is pretty academic. Nevertheless the actual story of the company gets a little complicated and will be reflected mostly in ads and case labels. There were several distinct events during this short time frame as follows:

1). Sep 1857 - JC retired. The firm continued to be known as "Reilly, Gun Maker" (two words) for almost two years after JC's departure:
..........02 Sep 1857 edition of "London Daily News,"


2) Nov-Dec 1858 - for a very short time in newspaper advertisements the firm was "Reilly, Manufacturer."
..........11 Dec 1858 "Illustrated London News"


Yet the firm was known as "Reilly, Gun Maker" in most long-lead-time publications:


3) Jan 1859 - 315 Oxford St. opened and was identified as "Reilly's Armoury House."

First Newspaper Ad for "Reilly's Armoury House": 16 January 1859 , "Bell's Life" - these ads only for Amoury House bombarded the Newspapers. They continue to be posted well into 1861.


4) Apr-Jun 1859 - "Reilly & Co, Gunmakers" (one word) was used for a short tine for 502 New Oxford St. . "Reilly & Co." however, was used to describe the company in several collateral publications at the time in 1859. And "Reilly & Co." was used on into 1861 in conjunction with Amoury House.

..........02 April 1859, "Illustrated London News."


. . . . Book written 1859, published 1860. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Ad for a rifling system 10/09/59 Volunteer's Services Gazette
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/13/18 05:46 PM

5) Fall 1859 - EM Reilly & Co., "Gunmakers" (one word) was used for the company which ran both Armoury house (315) and 502 New Oxford St, a description which continued up to summer 1860. For sure "EM Reilly, Gunmaker" (one word) appears in some mid-1859 long lead-time advertisements - and in some newspapers dueling ads were run for "Reilly's Armoury House" and "E.M Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, branch establishment 315 Oxford Street" in the same issue after Fall 1859:

..........26 October 1859 Sporting Life:


Believe the case labels for 502 New Oxford St. from about September 1859 (when E.M. Reilly & Co. first appeared) to Summer 1860 when "Gun Manufacturers" appeared must have looked like this with the traditional sketch of 502 New Oxford Street,and "E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Maker" (two words):



For a short time in 1859-early 1860 there may have been a specific and different case label associated with Armoury House (This is a reproduction but has to be a reproduction of something - never seen it actually in a case to confirm); From about 1876 - 1890 Reilly did have a slightly different case label for 315 later 277 than for 502 later 16; And there was a separate 315 series used mostly for pistols):



For long lead-time publications such as Bradshaw and the Red book, both "Gun Makers" and "Gunmakers" appeared simultaneously for 1860:



6) 01 August 1860 - First newspaper ads appear describing E.M Reilly as "Gun Manufacturer." (singular)

. . . . . 28 July 1860, "Sporting Life" - Gunmaker. . . . . . . . . . . . 04 Aug 1860, "Sporting Life"..Gun Manufacturer (singular)


One supposes then that the classic Reilly 1860's Case Label, which continued with variants up to 1898 with "EM Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturers," could not have appeared until August 1860 (per newspaper ads below) if you're trying to date your case. The Sanskrit script reads .. Maharaj Pratap Singh ji Solarkar or Sarkar Palamau. Vaishak..(i.e April/May) Sudi 12 means 12 of April/ May..Sanwat 1937 means Hindu calendar Vikrami Sanwat 1937. that is 137 years old. 200 Silvers rupees paid to the seller along with some presentation. I.e. the gun was resold in India in 1880 for 200 silver rupees to Maharajah Pratap Singh ji, Sarkar (lord) of Palamau.



Long lead-time ads for 1861 identified Reilly as "Gun Manufacturers."

..........January 1861 ,"Broyles Court Guide"


However, "Gun Manufacturers" really did not appear in the normal press ads until April 1861, whatever that means.

..........14 April 1861, "Bell's Life"


All this works out as a check on the above Serial Number-Date list.
-- It means that "EM REILLY & CO." might not have appeared until October 1859. As a check, on the above list the first extant gun with that name on its rib is 11115 and on the chart it indeed lands in the latter half of 1859.
-- It also means that there may be a gun somewhere with "Reilly, 315 Oxford Street" dating from January 1859 - September 1859 with a different label.....the reproduction label with "Reilly Amoury House" came from someplace.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/17/18 05:52 PM

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1898-1912 - Reilly's labels and the Vienna World's Fair medals


By the way the fourth medal on the post 1898 Reilly label that couldn't be identified:



I'm almost 100% sure it was for the 1873 Vienna World's Fair as speculated above - I've seen enough of them on all sorts of UK wares. This was the medal given for "Innovation."



There's only one problem: I don' t think Reilly was there. I could be wrong but can't find another explanation. That's definitely Franz Joseph on the "Heads" side (Kaiser of Austria; Kaiser of Bohemia - etc; Kaiser of Hungary). So did his kids or managers or whomever, after his death, start playing games with history? Oh well, people get jobs by faking their resumes these days.....nothing's changed.

If anyone has that label, what does a magnifying glass say? Was there another Vienna exposition in the 1880's by chance? Thanks.

Official 1873 Vienna Exposition catalog - list of UK gunmakers exhibiting:


Here is the 1889 Universelle catalog entry for Alex. Henry with the medal (with the "tails" side showing the medal for excellence in manufacture). Henry was at Vienna!

Posted by: SKB

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/17/18 06:57 PM

Do any Reilly records survive?
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/17/18 08:05 PM

No...The company went bankrupt in 1912. The name was subsequently bought. I think this line is the best one can find...IMHO...unless Sally has something. That "New Short History" on P.17 is darned good and about all a gun owner-collector needs to know about the company (compare it to what was being put out by auction houses and even in prestigious magazines and journals recently). And the list of dates/SN's also on P. 17 is about as accurate as can be possible..until more evidence - guns. labels, ads - appears..

This started out as a lark 3 years ago when I bought my double. I've spent a lot of time in the middle of no-where since then and had nothing else to do but research the gun. And I modestly feel it has brought the name of a prominent British gun-maker out of the shadows.

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/19/18 03:57 PM

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1922 - Riggs advertises the acquisition of Reilly


More bits: Charles Riggs bought Reilly's name allegedly (per the internet) in 1917. I've never confirmed that date. However, it looks like he didn't actually start using it until August 1922. (if he bought it in 1917, why not use it then?). Doesn't really matter because those Riggs-Reillys are not Reillys. But here is the first ad - by the end of 1922, a mere five months later, Riggs' ads featuring the Reilly name tailed off.

..........18 Aug 1922 "Chelmsford Chronicle" (Riggs did not advertise in big London papers like Reilly did in his hey-day.)


By the end of 1922, the headline of "Reilly" by Charles Riggs had dwindled and disappeared in ads by the end of the year

..........17 Nov 1922, "Chelmsford Chronicle"


It looks like that"1924" catalog...actually advertises a 1922 sale because of the wording of the announcement:



Here are the Riggs "Reilly"'s found so for - These are not "Reilly"'s - in the "New Short History" I've speculated that they are built by BSA...only because Riggs had a long relationship with BSA selling their guns and motorcycles; one of these was for sale in America not long ago for a good bit of money - they make 200-400 £ in UK.

134183 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16ga. SxS shotgun. BLNE
136535 - E.M. Reilly..not mentioned. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE.
138279 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 20bore Shotgun SxS. BLE
140415 - E.M. Reilly of London. 16bore shotgun SxS. 30" steel barrels
140451 - E.M. Reilly, London. 16bore Shotgun SxS. (Charles Riggs, post 1917)
144939 - E.M. Reilly, London, 12 bore Shotgun SxS BLNE. 28 barrels.
146242 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London; 12bore. Top lever hammer gun. Pistol grip stock.
150570 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock non-ejector.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/20/18 01:02 PM

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1860 - 1898 - Mainline Reilly label 315 (277) and 502 (16)


I mentioned above that it looks like when 315 Oxford Street opened (Armoury House), Reilly had two different labels for his cases:

-- This allegedly is a reproduction of the Armoury House label. It has "Fusils a Bascule" on it...principle establishment at 502 New Oxford Street, etc. It was possibly used from Jan 1859 when 315 opened until Summer 1860 when the classic "E.M. Reilly & Co"; "Gun Manufacturers" appeared.


-- From Jan 1859 to Fall 1859, the main-line label would have continued to be the traditional one with "Reilly, Gun Maker," "Fusils a Bascule," the drawing of 502 New Oxford Street, and the 1851 and 1855 medals.


-- This label with the 502 New Oxford Street building but without "Fusils a Bascule" and with E.M REILLY, GUN MAKER, and the 1851 and 1855 World's Fair medals featured on the traditional Reilly label from 1855-59 may have been used as the main-line Reilly label from Fall 1859 until "Gun Manufacturers" appeared in August 1860.


This dichotomy in labels with different labels for 315 and 502 may have lasted from January 1859 to Summer 1860 and the arrival of the classic E.M. Reilly & Co. label:

From summer of 1860 to 1898, 502 New Oxford Street (later 16) had this principle label...with variations. E.M REILLY & Co., Gun Manufacturers. The 1867 medals mostly disappeared after the fall of Napoleon III Sep 1870. Sometimes the label had 315 as a "branch establishment," sometimes with both 315 and 2 rue Sribe, sometimes with only 2 rue scribe. But always with the scroll work below the bottom tier of writing and usually with a double lined border and usually with scolloped corners. These labels are from guns with original cases which I've dated to the early 1860's, 70's, 80's and there is one possibly in the 90's (not pictured because the picture of the label is so tiny).



From the limited number of labels I've collected after about Fall 1860, 315 (later 277) doesn't appear again on its own on a label until about 1876. After 1876 the layout of the 315 label was very similar to the 502 label above, except that there is no scroll work below the bottom level of print and no double lined internal border.



In addition 315 appears to have had a special label for revolvers in the early 1880's - here are two examples:



There were some other variants...with "Gun & Rifle Manufactures" and on a couple of them mention of royalty....I've pictured them already but it looks like the above were the mainstream Reilly labels after summer 1860 until the 1898 "4 medal" label appeared.

c1876 - 1868 medals & King of Portugal.......c1884 - the three Kings...................c1892 - re-labeled after the gun was redone


This doesn't prove much...it may help if you see a gun that doesn't have a SN displayed or something....but just interesting for the historian...and if you're buying a reproduction, get the one with the scolloped corners...oh wait...they aren't offered.....Yet.
Posted by: reb87

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/24/18 06:16 PM

My EM Reilly 17552 Click on the link for an album on my google pics.

Can anyone tell me how to embed my google pics here? I can embed them on other forums but not here.

EM Reilly 17552 pics

[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sj54OK...RA=w438-h328-no[/img]
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/25/18 05:07 AM

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17552 (1872)


You'll have to use a photo hosting site. I use http://jpgbox.com/submit.html. It's free. Create an account and it's easy to use. 1) select the picture from your desk top; 2) upload it. 3) select the resolution. 4) copy the link and post.

Others used Imgur, and there are a couple of other sites as well. Dave was going to look at hosting images here at one point because of the photobucket scam that resulted in a great deal of history being squirrellel away for ransom.

I'll post the photos for Reb....Reilly underlever hammer gun shotgun. 13 bore? (looks bigger than that!). SN 17552 (numbered during the first quarter of 1872 per the chart above) with E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London on the rib - and what a neat looking shotgun. What shells do you use in it? I see two London proof marks that were around since the 1600's...assume this is Black Powder proof, and it looks like it hasn't been re-proofed. Edit: Originally a pin-fire...

[/URL

[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/54831_583x768/]














Posted by: reb87

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/25/18 10:01 AM

Thanks for fixing my pics and thanks for all the great info you've collected. I shoot RST 12ga thru this gun. It is one of my favorite guns with awesome tall hammers that are easily cocked with one hand on a flush. It has an unfortunate poorly executed (cosmetically) repair to the wrist of the stock that I need to address someday but it remains as solid as the day I bought it many years ago.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/25/18 05:17 PM

Reb, I'm surprised you're still around....why you've been shooting modern powders out of a black-powder gun with Damascus barrels. If you read the Damascus barrel line, those barrels should be exploding like a grenade multiple times and we should all be dead... or something. smile. I shoot the same shells in my Damascus barreled gun....(though it's 25 years more modern).
Posted by: Steve Nash

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/25/18 09:58 PM

That’s a great looking gun. Wonderful hammers!
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/26/18 05:06 PM

This was the list of extant guns with serial numbers in a dated formate. Unfortunately this post has become corrupted. As this is a working document. I'll try to repost it.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 08/27/18 05:33 PM

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1857 - JC Reilly's Swan Song


In the JC "7000" series, the last two extant guns were 8025 and 8052 (both probably 1857 shortly before he retired; both had Ceasar's dictum, "Veni, Vidi, Vici"...which may be JC's swan song. Here is that inscription on Terry Buffum's 8025.

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 09/04/18 08:24 PM

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1912-1918 - Reilly at Marylebone


I've pretty well finished up this story - the intention being to date the serial numbers of Reilly guns. The twisting and turnings of the name of the company from JC's retirement in Sep 1857, the opening of 315 Oxford Street, "Reilly's Armoury House," in January 1859, to the advent of the name "E.M. Reilly & Co.", in Sep 1859, and the subsequent switch from "Gun Maker" to "Gun Manufacturer" in Summer 1860 has been addressed.

There was one thing bothering me though and it has nothing to do with Reilly SN's; that is the fate of the name after the bankruptcy of the company in June 1912 (detailed above) and the opening of 13 High Street, Marylebone.

. . . . . . . 13 High Street, Marylebone today (a small shop)


Per the following records, that shop did exist as "E.M. Reilly & Co., gunmakers" for several years.

. . . . . . .1912 London Telephone Directory - Reilly still at 295 Oxford Street - still Gun & Rifle Manufacturers



. . . . . . .1915 London Postal Directory - E.M Reilly, "gunmaker" noted at 13 High Street



The company disappeared from the London telephone directories in 1919 per below.

..........1918 Telephone Directory with EM Reilly . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1919 Tel Directory without EM Reilly


..........1921 London Postal Directory - likewise had no entry for Reilly at 13 High Street, Marylebone.


John Cambell in his article on Reilly in DGJ , Summer 2015 wrote that he had seen E.M. Reilly & Co. mentioned in the 1921 "Hughes London Business Directory." I haven't been able to access Hughes yet.....it looks to me as if the company disappeared in 1918 (before the publication of the 1919 phone directory) but we'll assume that the entry exists; (Hughes was a long lead time publication so if John is right, the shop would have still been at 13 High Street in 1920, but without a telephone and Hughes would have been typeset before the 1921 Postal Directory. Strange - I'll try to get access to that issue of Hughes to confirm; I've got to mention though that that article - like every article about Reilly found so far - had a number of errors of fact in it..not a criticism of John but rather a simple statement of fact on where general understanding of Reilly history was at the time):


The above makes the post bankruptcy history of Reilly easier to understand...
-- Dec 1911 EM Reilly & Co. changed to a limited liability company with the bankruptcy lawyer GW Roberts as a "partner," presumably to protect some assets from the pending bankruptcy;
-- Spring 1912 they advertised 295 Oxford St. as a "freehold" for sale in London newspapers;
-- 6-8 June, bankruptcy declared;
-- 1912 they moved to 13 High Street Marylebone;
-- in 1918 (or 1921) they closed it;
-- August 1922 Riggs bought the name and published it in his catalog. Therefore, following are the last three paragraphs of the "New Short History" as edited:

In 1903 the Company vacated 277 Oxford Street where they had been quartered for 44 years while the building was being renovated and moved 300 yards down the street to 295 Oxford Street. The company apparently was run by Herbert H. (Bert) Reilly and Charles A. Reilly, EM Reilly’s sons. The first extant gun with 295 Oxford Street on the rib is 35422. The company remained at 295 until bankruptcy was declared on 06 June 1912. The last extant gun with 295 on the rib is 36678.

Bert Reilly opened a small gun shop, E.M Reilly & Co., at 13 High Street, Marylebone in 1912 after the bankruptcy. No advertisements can be found for the shop though per London postal address, telephone and business directories they identified themselves as "gunmakers." No guns with this address on the rib have been found. The date of its closure is not noted although it is listed in London telephone directories up to 1919 and in business directories to 1921.

In August 1922 The Reilly name was bought by a sporting goods dealer named Charles Riggs (most Reilly history summaries put the date of purchase as 1917; this is belied by the dates of newspaper advertising). Riggs apparently decided he could use the name to promote his premium line of guns (possibly built by BSA). Whether a Reilly had any say in the design of these Riggs-Reilly guns is unknown.


I've mentioned in that edited short history above that I don't know if a Reilly was involved in the design of any of Rigg's Reilly-named guns. Surely a Reilly didn't make them and I don't count them as Reilly's. Yet one of the Reilly's must have gotten something from each gun sold with that name on it as royalties (who?) unless Riggs bought the name outright (from whom, when, for how much?), and there is a slight tinge of elegance in a pedestrian Riggs that might indicate some involvement by a Reilly initially in designing them. Riggs Reillys are regarded in the market now as journeyman guns. Lots of questions - but nothing at all to do with Reilly Serial Numbers and of no interest to this line.

SN 140415 - E.M. Reilly, London (by Charles Riggs)


I'll make two more Historical posts....a repost of the fully edited New History of Reilly, gunmaker...I think it's about as good as it's going to get and I have no interest in pursuing it further; .and of the current serial number chart. With that I'm done. The only thing that'll get me back on topic now are gun serial numbers that change something or new case labels. (I may post a couple of photos of EM from ancestry.com posted by Sally). I really think the serial number-date chart is darned good as it is now.

Of course this line will remain a great place for shooters to post pics of their Reilly's.
Posted by: Steve Nash

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 09/04/18 10:27 PM

Thank you for this magnificent effort.

S. Nash
Posted by: AlanD

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 09/05/18 05:46 AM

This is first class research. I do hope you get the chance to publish this in a book or booklet.

Regards

AlanD
Sydney
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 09/05/18 01:05 PM

If Sally doesn't mind, here are two photos of E.M. Reilly she posted onto Ancestry.com. I assume they're in the public domain now but if there are copyright issues, I'll delete. This is just for history's sake. (Doubt that's an air-cane gun he's carrying..unless it's a .22).



Just for fun, what are the chances that the older bewhiskered top-hatted gentleman in the bottom of the picture of Oxford street in 1885 strolling near to 277, is Mr. EM Reilly? Would that be Mary next to him, his wife?
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 09/06/18 01:27 PM

"A New Short History of Reilly" moved to P. 33,
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 09/06/18 01:31 PM

Offer this short version for auction houses with limited space for a gun description:

============================ Short ========================

Joseph Charles Reilly, b1786, Ireland, moved to London to study law c1808. In 1814 he opened a jewelry shop at 12 Middle Row, Holborn Bars, next to the Inns of the Court where his clientele included barristers and country gentlemen. He began making guns in the 1820’s and by 1833 identified himself exclusively as “gun maker.” From the beginning he employed a consistent business model; Make a quality product, sell it for a moderate price; deliver it rapidly; and with this model he undercut better known gun makers.

In 1835 he moved to 316 High Holborn where in 1840 his 23 year old son Edward Michael joined him as a partner in the company. In March 1847 they moved to 502 New Oxford Street (renumbered “16” in 1881) where they remained for 50 years. The gun ribs were for the most part labeled “Reilly.” The company advertised as “Reilly, Gun Maker.”

In September 1857 JC Reilly retired in favor of EM. In January 1859 a branch was opened at 315 Oxford Street (renumbered 277 in 1881) and that autumn the company name was changed to E.M. Reilly & Co., a name which lasted on gun ribs and on trade labels and advertisements until 1919 and beyond. A branch was opened in Paris at 2 rue Scribe in 1868 after his triumphal exhibition at the 1867 Paris World’s Fair.

By 1880 Reilly was making twice as many bespoke hand-made guns as Purdey and Holland & Holland combined and his guns dominated UK pigeon shooting contests for 20 years. In August 1885 rue Scribe was closed and in 1890 EM Reilly died. In 1898 16 New Oxford street was closed.

In 1903 the company moved from 277 to 295 Oxford street where they remained until bankruptcy in June 1912. A small gun shop E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Maker, located at 13 High Street, Marylebone run by EM Reilly’s son, continued in business until 1918. In 1922 a sporting goods dealer Charles Riggs bought the name “E.M Reilly & Co.” and used it for many years on his guns.

The Reilly’s sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly’s serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1825 to 1912, all built by them. The guns that they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. They were one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was consistently classy. Reilly’s best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.

Per a well-researched chart dating Reilly SN’s, SN XXXXX was likely numbered circa XXXX.

============================ Shorter ========================

The Reilly’s, Joseph Charles (JC) Reilly (1786-1864), his son Edward Michael (EM) (1817-1890) and his EM’s sons Bert and Charles, made guns in London from the early 1820’s to 1918 working out of several address including in order:
— 1814-1835 - 12 Middle Row, Holborn Bars;
— 1835-1847 - 316 High Holborn;
— 1847-1898 - 502 (“16” after 1881) New Oxford Street;
— 1859-1903 - 315 (“277” after 1881) Oxford Street;
— 1868-1885 - a branch at 2 rue Scribe, Paris
— 1903-1912 - 295 Oxford Street
— 1912-1918 - 13 High Street, Marylebone
In 1922 the Reilly name was bought by sporting goods dealer Charles Riggs who used it for many years on his guns.

Reilly sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1825 to 1912, all built by them. The guns that they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. They were one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was consistently classy. Reilly’s best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.

Per a well-researched chart dating Reilly SN’s, SN XXXXX was likely numbered circa XXXX.

============================ Shorter ========================

Reilly (JC Reilly-1786-1864, his son EM-1817-1890 and after EM’s death the grandsons) made guns in London from the early 1820’s to 1918. For much of that time they were located on Oxford Street or its vicinity with a branch in Paris for 17 years 1868-85. Reilly’s sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1825 to 1912, all built by them. The guns they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. They were one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was consistently classy. Reilly’s best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.

Per a well-researched chart dating Reilly SN’s, SN XXXXX was likely numbered circa XXXX.

============================ Shortest ========================

Reilly (JC Reilly-1786-1864, his son EM-1817-1890 and after EM’s death the grandsons) made excellent quality guns in London from the early 1820’s to 1918. SN XXXXX was likely numbered circa XXXX
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 10/29/18 07:15 PM

======================================================================================
1882-1886: 29 Rue du Faubourg, St. Honore revisited


In the above new history I have this sentence on the alleged Reilly shop at 29 rue du Faubourg, St. Honore, Paris: "Note: Allegedly at some point in the 1880’s Reilly opened a branch establishment at 29 Rue du Faubourg, St Honore. This has not been confirmed; no guns with this address on the rib have been found; the only advertisement with this address appeared in Jan 1886 touting a win by an Italian at a Monte Carlo pigeon shoot)."

I've added SN 22432 to the list, a SxS .577 (2 3/4" chambers) BPE rifle with rotary underlever. It has "E.M. REILLY & CO., 502 NEW OXFORD ST., LONDON" on the rib. It would have been serial numbered in circa late 1879 - early 1880.
http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/fullcatalogue.asp?salelot=A1214++++914+&refno=+++76477



Here is a blow-up of the label:





The label has the 1867 Paris medals. It has the address "16, New Oxford Street" and two branch addresses, "277 Oxford Street" and "29 rue du Faubourg, St. Honore, Paris." If the label were original with the case, this could be evidence that Reilly had a shop at this address. But the gun was made in very late 1879, the addresses on Oxford Street didn't change from 502 and 315 to 16 and 277 until November 1881. So either the label is not original with the gun, the gun was made then wasn't sold for a couple of years, or it was serial numbered when ordered but not delivered until after renumbering (normal practice). It does not have scolloped corners and may indeed be a later reproduction or addition.

As mentioned previously on p.18, rue du Faubourg, St. Honore was a prestigious location in the 1870's-80's with a prominent Brit ex-pat community. Reilly would not have kept it secret if he had a store there. Yet it is nowhere mentioned in advertisements. There may be a gun with that address on the rib if Señor Guidicini's win at Monte Carlo advertisement in the late January 1886 London papers is authentic. Whatever, the 2 rue Scribe address never closed, even if a satellite location was opened for a time in Paris.

There is what looks to be from a very fuzzy photo, a very similar label on one of Cal Pappas' Reilly BPE's (Cal has owned 3 Reilly BPE's that I've seen on the web, but he doesn't post serial numbers or names/addresses on ribs in his ads or writing). It has the 1867 medals, is very squarish, has no scolloped corners, and what may be similar "branch establishments" which may include rue du Faubourg (can't make it out but the blurs seem similar with what looks to be Paris below the right branch address); Two BPE's with St. Honore, Paris? Wonder if that's where he sold his rifles (except for sure Señor Guidicini wasn't shooting pigeons with a 450 BPE)? If anyone knows Cal, I'd much appreciate seeing a good photo of this label and also getting the SN's. Thanks.



Actually the label is posted here: http://www.calpappas.com/2014/12/double-rifle-1.html (almost at the bottom) and the picture was sent to Cal by Elliot Lee.

Addendum: I sent an email to Cal Pappas asking if he retained his records on Reilly double guns and whether he had additional info on Mr. Elliot Lee and his gun from above. He got back to me immediately. Unfortunately he had neither but his helpfulness was much appreciated.


Edit: I've added this paragraph to the Short history: "Note: In the early 1880's Reilly apparently opened a small satellite branch of 2 rue Scribe, Paris at 29 rue du Faubourg, St. Honore, Paris for a short time. A couple of gun case labels show the store would have been in existence after the November 1881 change in Oxford Street addresses but before the July 1885 closure of 2 rue Scribe. An advertisement with this address appeared in Jan 1886 touting a win by an Italian at a Monte Carlo pigeon shoot; whether the address was on the rib of his gun or on the trade/case label is unknown. No newspaper ads for this branch exist (and it was a prestigious location which should have been publicized). No extant guns have thus far been found with this address. The branch was apparently opened at a time when Reilly was building more than 1,000 serial numbered bespoke guns a year. "
Posted by: RWG

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 10/30/18 07:07 PM

Argo:

I recently acquired a Box Lock extractor double marked E. M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford St., London. Serial number 23536. It is nitro proved for 2 1/2" 1 1/8 oz loads at the London proofhouse. Barrels are 30". They have been reblued, but I cannot see any Damascus steel pattern under the new bluing so I presume they are fluid steel. The action is an A&D patent with use number 3814 so marked on the action flats. The action looks like a Westley Richards profile with simple border and plain finish, and even has their toplever and beefy early cocking dogs. But there is no maker's mark that I can find. Thought you might want to add it to your serial number list. If you want pictures, I can email them to you. The gun is a shooter, not a collector. Russ
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 10/30/18 08:04 PM

======================================================================================
1881, November: 23536 - New SN marker for Oxford St. Address change date


Thanks Russ...gun has been added. I actually feel pretty good about date of SN's from say 1858 to 1904. Before 1858 there are so few that it's difficult to be sure and after the move to 295 Oxford street, they only made about 250 guns over 8 years. I don't think Reilly's are all that collectable; everybody here seems to shoot their guns and enjoy them.

Of course your SN 23536 together with the 277 Oxford Street address presents a problem for the chart. It is now the first extant SN'd Reilly with either 16 or 277 on the rib after Oxford St. was renumbered in November 1881. My chart as it is now would have your gun dated in middle of 1881. Now I'm going to have to go back and adjust some of the numbers and totals backwards. It'll mean a few fewer guns produced in the years leading up to 1881 and consequently even more guns made from 1882 to 1885. Thanks. This is the kind of info that really helps. Plus with the Anson and Deely patent use number, we'll get another "sanity check" marker which other A&D use numbers can reference.

Working on updating the chart. I do keep photos of every gun pictured on the chart so if you wouldn't mind sending me one by PM, would much appreciate it. Or better, since it is now a "Marker" serial number for dating Reilly's, could you post a photo here?

Gene Williams
Posted by: ellenbr

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 10/30/18 08:33 PM

Argo44, considering the Lindner - Daly APUNs, an APUN of 3814 would put if forward of 1881 I would say. Now, I wonder if each maker had their own APUN series or sequence? Does the subject A&D Body Action just have the lower scears?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 10/30/18 08:48 PM

Raimey, a question for the cognoscenti and beyond my abilities. Russ might be able to post some photos of said A&D patent use number. I think this is the line you're talking about? I'll need to read it carefully:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=484334&page=1

Actually...on the first page I sort of mentioned all the various patents that might be found in a Reilly during the 1870's, 80's in the hope that people would start looking inside their guns - it sure will help with dating.
Posted by: ellenbr

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 10/30/18 08:52 PM

All right, I just know we've expended quite a bit of time on the APUNs with regard to the Lindner - Daly A&D Body Actions.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted by: RWG

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 10/31/18 09:03 PM

Photos sent. Russ
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 10/31/18 09:09 PM

SN charts, the one attached to the last New Reilly History and the one with the extant guns, have been updated to reflect the new first extant SN with 277 or 16 on the rib 23536. It required dialing back a few estimates in the 1870's and bumping up Reilly production 1882-85 to an astonishing 1050 serial numbered guns a year, a true factory production. 23536 as the chart now stands would have been serial numbered in mid-November 1881.

Of course these are educated estimates. The whole exercise was really designed to get a Reilly owner to within about 6 months of the date his gun might have been numbered. You can be more confident in the dates from about 1858-1903 than for the other periods because of the number of existing guns.

I'll be adding something about 29 rue du faubourg shortly but perhaps the huge output in the early 1880's might explain a satellite office in Paris, an off-shoot (not replacing) 2 rue Scribe.
Posted by: RWG

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 10/31/18 09:10 PM

I have heard that patent use numbers were sold in allotments to makers. Presuming this gun was made by someone else in the trade and retailed by EM Reilly, that could explain the higher use number. Of course, this is mere speculation on my part. Not sure we will ever know for certain who made the barreled action. But it does look like a Westley Richard's "gold name" action except for no third bite. Russ
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 10/31/18 09:15 PM

Russ, Reilly's made their own guns as detailed extensively above (p.18). They did not serial number guns they did not build. They would engrave and market guns sold under license but these were not numbered. No doubt they imported barrel stocks and possibly actions from Birmingham - but the guns were finished, engraved, stocked in-house in London. Reilly also may have made guns for other makers...this was an assertion made by one author and Reilly ads do say "Retail and Wholesale." I've always assumed the "wholesale" part was sale of military rifles to the yeomanry militia, however.

1886 - reference to Kings of Portugal, Spain and Netherlands


1875 or thereabouts - notice the reference to the King of Portugal


1860 advertisement "A genealogy and Heraldry Dictionary of the British Empire" - Burke.
Posted by: RWG

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 10/31/18 09:25 PM

Thanks Gene. Good to know. Russ
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 10/31/18 09:29 PM

======================================================================================
1881, November: 23536 - Photos

Pics of Russ's 23536, 1st extant gun with the renumbered Oxford Street Addresses:













Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 10/31/18 10:09 PM

================================================================
30363 - 30364
- (1889) - Anson & Deely Patent use 6250


I've records of a number of Reilly's using the A&D patent...this is the only one with an A&D number matched to a Reilly SN other than Russ's. So from Russ's 23536 - AD 3814 to this 30383 - AD 6250: Reilly made 6,850 odd guns. If the AD patent use numbers were maker specific... 2,420 odd of those Reillys would have used AD actions (about 40%).

https://www.theexplora.com/who-made-this...nd-ian-jackson/
The example we present here (SN 30363) is Number 1 of a pair. It is stamped on the action flats with Deeley’s Patent Ejector use number 428 and Anson and Deeley’s Patent use number 6250 for the box lock action.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a gun in Norway listed in the original SN list on P.3: Note that the A&D patents for this gun and the one above are only 13 numbers apart. I'm trying to contact the poster to ask for the SN. This gun and the one above also both have the Deeley ejector patent, this one is one number ahead of the above guns. https://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15506

Name: E.M REILLY & Co, 277 Oxford Street, London.
Description: Boxlock by EM Reilly. Built on a Westley Richards action with the WR patented top lever and dolls head. Lovely Damascus tubes. Nice wood. Scroll engraved. Ejector. Intercepting sears. Original black powder proof. Number 2 of a pair. Action flats marked “Deeley ejector patent 427” (1880?) and “Anson & Deeley patent 6265 (about 1889?). Now I'm wondering if this Norway gun is the number 2 of the 1st gun above....the Deely ejector patent use numbers are one digit apart.





------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, The above is very similar to this gun (no SN supplied but probably around 303xx)
http://www.hillrodandgun.com/archivepicture.php?id=12774
EM REILLY, LONDON, BLE, 2 3/4" sleeved, 28" choked Cyl/Mod. 14 5/8" moderately figured wood to black recoil pad. This Reilly is built on a Westley Richards action and is gun #2 of a pair. The action has gone grey, has London best fine sroll engraving, beaded fences and intercepting sears. 6lbs 14oz.



Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/08/18 06:16 PM

Extant gun date chart moved to p.33
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/08/18 07:59 PM

Footnotes to Extant Gun Chronology moved to p.33
Posted by: KDGJ

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/09/18 11:04 AM

Gene,

The 2 WR actioned guns are interesting. I don't know if WR kept records on the patent use numbers. Unfortunately, the patent use numbers aren't shown on the #1 or #2 guns. It would be interesting to know if WR built and sold the guns to Reilly or just furnished the actions for Reilly to complete the guns.

Ken
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/09/18 04:32 PM

Hey Ken, whether Reilly made his own guns has been an often asked question. This line addresses this, particularly on p.18, where there are a series of posted advertisements. The unmistakable conclusion is that Reilly indeed made his own guns in his two large buildings in London. He employed barrel borers, engravers, stockers, finishers; 300 persons per the 1880 census. He may have imported actions in the white from Birmingham but he did not serial number any gun he did not make. I can give a dozen examples (most posted above) but this advertisement from 1861 pretty well sums up the whole lot.

He could not offer gentlemen into his factories in London at 502 (16) New Oxford Street or 315 (277) Oxford Street to "superintend the progress of their orders" if he weren't making the guns there.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .April 14, 1861, "Bell's Life


Reilly did sell other's guns, Trantor, Adams, Colt, Remington, Sharps, etc, and he engraved them and put his names on them....but not a Serial Number.

I am going to be adding patents and use numbers to the above list as they are found.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 12/10/18 09:53 PM

Ken, you asked if Reilly sold complete Westley-Richards. Here are a couple of advertisements which indicate he did:

. . . 1871 Black's Cornwall Guide. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Portion of) 1882 Bradshaw Guide to GB and Ireland.


The 1871 ad must be mid 1871 just before or right after the gun was officially adopted because Reilly is advertising "Henry-Martini". The Martini-Henry was adopted officially in Summer 1871 and the first Reilly newspaper ad for "Martini-Henry"'s for sale I've found is November 1871...I've dated SN 17314, the only serial number Reilly Martini I've found, at Jan 1872.

You'll notice both ads mention several different type of guns he was selling. Now it can get tricky. For instance, he numbered a few Sniders...but if he did not build the gun, he didn't number it. I've only found one serial numbered Martini-Henry SN 17314 (very early) because the Enfield factory insisted on sending over all the parts for assembly when one was ordered (and there are a lot of Reilly Martini's in various calibers around) Etc. Thus I think he did both with Westley Richards - he sold complete guns (not serial numbered); and he sold his own guns based on the WR action (serial numbered).

As for the three SN 303xx Reilly guns with WR actions above, I feel confident in saying he built these - there is an unmistakable balance and look to them.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/19/19 01:00 PM

After an educational exchange with knowledgeable contributors to this board such as LeFusil, I understand that while there is prima facie evidence that Reilly made guns at both his Oxford Street addresses from 1847 to 1912, there would be interest in running this down further. Here is what I'm working on:

1) What happened to Reilly's gun making machines, lathes, barrel borers, engraving tools, etc. A lot of the guns at the time are hand made but he needed the big machines too, if he were building complete actions from scrap rather than buying them under patent, especially since he was stamping "Reilly" onto specific parts of actions.

...a. I'll start looking to see what was sold when Reilly declared bankruptcy on 06 Jun 1912. The liquidator G. Watkinson Roberts might have published a list of items somewhere.



However, there are two factors which might effect the bankruptcy sale:

-- Reilly closed 16 New Oxford Street in 1898 and I speculated at that time sold the workshop there...part of downsizing due to dramatically decreasing orders. When they moved they must have sold the equipment there. I do not know who was running the company at the time. Will search the London papers for sales of gun making items from that year.

-- They moved from 277 (location of the shooting gallery) to 295 in 1903. Bert Reilly, now 26 years old, was the manager. They also must have had to sell equipment for the move. 295 was considerably smaller; they only serial numbered about another 250 guns in the 9 years after they closed 277 before bankruptcy. So again machines at 277 must have been sold off.
. . . .-- I'll see if I can dig up some sales data from that building as well. I do know from labels in cases, etc., that they did do maintenance work on older Reilly's while at 295....one gun re-barreled - other serial numbered guns from the 1880's-90's came up with crossed out 277 addresses on the cases.

In addition, I'm trying to determine who worked for Reilly I have the names of two shop managers, one from 1861 and one from 1895. I'll be looking at British census data to see if anyone in that area of London actually identified themselves as a Reilly employee (at the time you were only obligated to give "occupation.")

1861 - John Baker who took out a patent for Reilly: - there are a lot of John Bakers in London including one gun maker wh 20 years later was up in Birmingham.


1895 - James Curtis, who testified at a trial involving an Irish terrorist who may have bought a revolver from Reilly.
13 Sep 1895 "Kilburn Times"


There are some others but only identified by last name. Research continues.
Posted by: SMA

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/26/19 12:15 PM

Hello, I am very new to all this, but also very interested. I have a thread here on this forum titled "S.R. Jeffery Guildford". I have pictures of a shotgun I have and I am wondering if it might have been built by E M Reilly? I can try to post pictures here if that is the correct way of doing it if you like, but if it is not, I do not want to clutter up this post. Please have a look, if you would, and direct me on what you think from there. I have more pictures than what I have posted, or if you would like a specific photo, just let me know. Thank you very much and sorry if this was a waste of time.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/26/19 03:21 PM

Answered in this line: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=534487#Post534487
Posted by: SMA

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/26/19 03:48 PM

Thank you for your information and time. I have answered your question in the other post.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/26/19 07:07 PM

Has any proof ever been found that Reilly made his own guns or was he just another gun farmer ?
Posted by: Saskbooknut

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/26/19 08:13 PM

The best of British shotguns were frequently made by commissioning the best outworkers on a bought in action and tubes.
Posted by: keith

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/26/19 08:15 PM

I still haven't seen any proof that Reilly actually built guns jOe.

We have photos of workers filing actiions, stocking, and barreling guns at H&H, Purdey, Hunter Arms, Parker Bros., Lefever, etc. We have pictures of their factories. We have old newspaper accounts of new building being bought, machinery being purchased, and even accounts of fires or floor collapses that disrupted production.



It seems Reilly was in the same category of Charles Daly, and built few, if any guns himself.

By the way, did you notice that the "Decline of DGS" thread got locked? I wonder who cried to Dave this time?

Decline of DGS
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/26/19 08:23 PM

Hey Frank, Let me summarize this line and where we're at in a sort of argument, counter-argument style.

1). Hypothesis: Reilly made guns in London for 90 years; Any gun with a Reilly SN was made by him.
-- During the 19th century, Reilly guns were mentioned in dozens of articles, were used by champion pigeon shooters and well known explorers and big-game hunters, were given as gifts to foreign dignitaries by the British Royal family, were given to royalty abroad.
-- He was active in all the London shooting circles, sold thousands of guns, and serial numbered some 33 thousand of them.
-- He published where he made the guns, let people who were buying them look at the progress of his gun.
-- He had manufacturing rights to Green Brothers patent breech loaders and Complain breech loaders.
Not once in all that time period, in the whole 19th century, did anyone in England ever say he did not make his own guns.

2). Counter: Nope Reilly didn't make any guns at all: Where did the story that he did not build guns come from? As close as I can figure it originated in the late 20th century and has since been repeated over and over again until it became "truth" or "established knowledge' or "urban legend" or maybe "old wives tale." Perhaps it originated with the Riggs-"Reilly's" which decidedly were not Reilly's and were built in Birmingham? Here is the evidence usually cited for Reilly not making guns:
...a) No one ever wrote about visiting his workshops.
...b) There are no photos of the workshops.
...c) His guns look like Scott, or Westley Richards, or Purdey, or H&H or something.
...d) No one can name a person or a foreman who worked for Reilly.
...e) He had no gun patents other than patents for shells.
...f) He had to have had extensive testing facilities and shooting ranges.

Here are some refutations to para 2 above: Starting with our own respected LeFusil, who has written that he has proof Reilly made muzzle loaders and pin fires.

3) History: The same "experts" who have maintained Reilly did not make guns, also have published widely repeated "histories" of the firm." Our own respected LeFusil in a post on Reilly repeated the mantra that Reilly closed rue Scribe in 1872. Where did Lefusil hear that? These histories have been decisively proven in the above line to be wrong. There is an entire post above which replays various versions of Reilly history put out by Brown, written by highly respected authors such as Terry Weiland, and others including very well known auction houses. No-one here has challenged the above re-write of the history of the Reilly company. So, the "experts" can be wrong about the history of Reilly but they have to be right about his making guns?

4) SN Chronology: The above has recreated a chronology of Reilly Serial Numbers. So far no-one has challenged the date chart of serial numbers I've put together. If anyone wants to do so, please post your objections...this can only benefit the research.

5) Serial Number and Non-serial numbered Reilly's: As detailed above he made and sold both serial numbered and non-serial numbered guns with his name on them. I'm referring to long guns, not pistols though early on he made pistols as well. It is a fact detailed above that there is not one Reilly serial numbered gun with a Birmingham proof. There are Reilly long guns with Birmingham proofs - no serial number.

5). Patents: The fact that Reilly took out no gun patents is a non-starter as an argument he didn't make guns. He made guns under license using others patents.

6). Employees: Reilly was an important company in the 1850's-80's. EM himself told the 1881 census taker he employed 300 persons. The "experts" have tried to explain this away - they have tried to bend that statement to mean - "he must be referring to all the people he might have employed had he actually made guns." That is a "let's put the toothpaste back in the tube" sort of statement trying to square it with the original précis that he didn't make his own guns. The Employment records are lost. Only a couple of persons can be identified; but there is on-going research on the subject.

7). Workshops: Outside photos of his two large buildings at 16 New Oxford Street and 277 Oxford Street have been posted above. The photos clearly show they had more than enough size to house extensive workshops. Search for other photos are on-going. But the fact interior photos of the workshop can't be found doesn't mean the workshop didn't exist. Reilly sold thousands of guns. Yet there is not one photo of his retail sales stores.... So the retail sales stores didn't exist either?

8) Testing facilities: Reilly had two ranges, a 300 yard range outside of London and a 50 yard range at 277 Oxford Street. These ranges were so well publicized that if they didn't exist, one of the newspapers or magazines such as "Field" would have commented on it.

Nothing in the above empirically proves Reilly made his own guns; nothing in the counter-argument can establish that he did not. But if you look at the overwhelming circumstantial evidence, you'll have to say that until proven otherwise, a serial numbered Reilly was made by the Reilly firm in London.

Here's what I'll be doing to further research this:
-- I'll be looking at census records from 1840-80 in the Oxford street area to see if someone might have identified his employer as "Reilly." The citizens were only required to give their occupation.
-- I've detailed the problem with the 1912 bankruptcy records. I will look further. I'll also search journals and newspapers for possible sales of gun making equipment in 1898 when he closed 16 New Oxford Street and in 1903 when he down-sized from 277 Oxford Street.
-- And I'll continue to look for photos of the Oxford Street area and of those two buildings in particular.

Now I feel it's time for those who have doubts about anything that has been published in this line, or that is written in the "New History" above, to put them in print here and let's discuss it, and how the doubts can be resolved. I would particularly like to hear from the UK knowledgable posters - Reilly was a London gun making company and this is UK history. As I mentioned in the New History of Reilly....I feel at this point I can defend ever word written. There is still a lot of work to do. But what it clear is that what was written about Reilly over the past 50 years - has now been shown to be erroneous.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/26/19 10:19 PM

Keith that's what happens when people makes threads about the declining of the DGF...kind of like the guy running around hollering the sky is falling all the time...

First that thread declines then it spills over into other threads (like this then they decline)...before you know it the sky has fallen on the decliners head.

The way I see it if the people would stop making these declining threads trying to decline this great board then the missery wouldn't be so catching in other threads.

My best diagnosis is that declining threads posts are like'n to a bad venereal virus...
Posted by: 300846

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/31/19 10:00 AM

Here is another of these kind of rough old Reilly guns :https://www.theexplora.com/e-m-reilly-co-royal-presentation-combination-gun/
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 01/31/19 11:41 AM

300846, That gun has been sent to me by a number of people including a couple of very prominent gun writers. It is a bar-in-wood 12 bore side lever with two sets of black powder proofed barrels - Shotgun and rifle. The SN is 25161.

Here's the problem. 25161 would have been serial numbered in Mid 1883 according to my chart. The case, however, shows is was a prize given by the King of Spain in 1880. Here is the mention of the provenance from the original advertisement:

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...4&saletype=
Estimate £15,000-20,000

.."We are kindly informed by the vendor that the gun has been in the
..possession of the family since it was purchased by his Great Grandfather,
..Mr Juan Agudo Valero in the 1880's.

.."His livestock business brought him into social circles of all levels, from
..contact with Royalty to a long lasting friendship with Manuel Mejis, a top
..bullfighter popularly called 'The Black Pope' and even extending to a friendship
..with Juan Camargo Gomez - a notorious bandit, known as 'TheVivillo' (to whom
..Juan sent emergency funds when forced to flee to Argentina to escape arrest)

"The gun was commissioned by King Alphonso XII and gifted as a prize for a
..'Throw' shooting competition (Live Pigeon match) by the King in 1880. Family
..tradition has it that the gun was won by an auspicious military man who was did
..not hunt or shoot as a pastime; the prize was bought from him by Juan - perhaps
..as a future gift for a person of influence. However, the gift was never realised and
..the gun has been passed down through the family ever since."


Well, something happened along the way from order to delivery and the story above sure seems odd. Perhaps the gun was ordered in 1880 and not delivered until 1883? Perhaps the original gun was stolen and was replaced by Reilly? Whatever it is a beautiful gun and worth taking a look at. (Ted, I know it has gold on it...but still it's not bad smile. ).









The gun is serial numbered; i.e. according to my hypothesis, that means Reilly built it.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/02/19 11:40 PM

Following will begin to lay out circumstantial evidence that Reilly made guns. I've accumulated hundreds of documents. But for starters, here is the year 1864 and the Reilly manufacture of Green Brothers breech loaders. this was mentioned in a post on page 12 above - no one seems to have read it so this is a repeat going into more detail (there's more but this should suffice to make a point).

===========================================================================================
1864 - Reilly manufactures the Green Bros Breech-loader


Reilly had been heavily involved in promoting breech loaders since 1851 London Crystal Palace World's Fair. In 1855 after the 1855 Paris Universelle, his labels changed to advertise both "Fusils a Bascule" (French for center-break guns) on the Lefaucheaux principal) and "Improved breech loaders."



There was more to this than just saying, "ok, now we're going to make breech loaders." Here part of the obituary of William Blanch, who was connected to JC and EM Reilly for many years, which explains who were the pioneers in UK for center break guns, and what were the problems they faced.

"But he had the more arduous task of teaching this men how to make the new gun. The barrel maker had to be instructed how to make the lump instead of the screw breech-plug. The percussionier had to be broken in to the task of making actions on Lefaucheaux's system. Everything was new..."

(By the way, the Blanch records were lost to a Zepplin bomb raid).



Reilly was among the group of English gun makers who urged Ordinance to reopen the trials for the Prince breech-loader in 1858-59 and was one of several manufacturers who were authorized to produce the Prince breech loader (two Prince breech loaders manufactured and serial numbered by Reilly exist - see chart).

In Feb 1862 the Green Brothers, who had been in partnership with Prince - partnership dissolved in 1859 - took out a patent for a new breech loader. EM Reilly, who had a relationship with the Green Brothers obtained manufacturing rights to the Green Brothers breech loader. Ordinance was inching towards a trial for a replacement for the .577 Enfield rifle-musket muzzle-loader as arguments raged about the pros and cons of breech-loaders vs. muzzle-loaders in the London Press.. The Prussian invasion of Denmark on 1 Feb 1864 and the astonishing initial success of the Prussian Dreyse needle gun, forced Ordinance's hand with pressure also being applied by the English press and UK gun makers.

Reilly began manufacturing Green Brothers breech loaders in Jan-March 1864. Here is one of the very first....use #23, manufactured by Reilly and serial numbered 13333, on the gun is E.M Reilly & Co., 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON.



Here are a few of the articles in the English press about the Green Bros invention and Reilly's manufacture of the gun which began in early 1864:

1). Volunteer Services Gazette, of 12 March 1864:





2). 04 April 1864, London Daily News:



3). 28 Jul 1864, Morning Post - a report on the beginning of breech loading trials...and first mention of the Snider, which wound up beating out the Green Bros and Reilly for the contract as UK's interim breech loader:



4). Here are a couple of the hundreds of Reilly ads run during 1864...he was not shy in promoting this gun...millions of pounds in government contracts were at stake. And you see again the consistent promotion of his testing facility at 315 Oxford Street.

London Daily News, 24 April 1864

London Daily News, 26 Nov 1864

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/03/19 09:58 AM

===========================================================================================
1864 - Reilly manufactures the Green Bros Breech-loader (continued)


Reilly continued for several years as "Sole Manufacturer" of Green Bros Breech loaders:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1865 Bradshasw. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Jul 1866 - Proceedings of the Royal Court


Well...what happened? Jacob Snider (an American) won the competition (and died a pauper-never receiving a nickel - uhhh shilling - from the Ordinance); The famous Snider-Enfield was formally adopted in 1866 even as bids were solicited for a new breech-loader with a small caliber, faster muzzle-velocity gun). Reilly continued to make Green Brothers breech loaders...there is one use number 159, SN 13884 (mid 1865) but after the adoption of the Snider, I can't find any more guns which are serial numbered. Here is one made about 1870, Patent use number 3116...Reilly on the rib - but no mention of SN.


I speculate that he must have shifted manufacture of the Green Brothers breech loaders to Birmingham after loss of the contract. Why? From 1864 to 1870 I calculate in the above chart that he Serial Numbered a little more than 3,000 guns. The above use numbers for Green Bros patent (23 in 1864 and 156 in 1865 to 3116 in about 1870) indicate that in this time period he manufactured over 3,000 Green Brothers breech loaders. It is impossible that he serial numbered more than a few of these in the first couple of years of production.

Likewise, the Reilly Comblain breech loader also went to Birmingham I assume - I haven't found a single Comblain-Reilly with a Reilly SN. This is discussed on p.12 as well but I'll make a separate post to drive home the point.

One could argue that the London press and gun manufacturing experts who received the Green Bros Breech loader from Reilly for testing had the wool pulled over their eyes. Or this noted professor might have just been fudging in his lecture as he discussed Green Brothers (Reilly & Co.) breech loader. Somehow....that doesn't seem plausible.

. . . . . . . . . . 25 July 1866, Morning Advertiser


Please read the whole line before commenting off the cuff...I'll be posting more on the subject.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/05/19 12:43 PM

===========================================================================================
1868 Reilly Comblain, Reilly sole manufacturers in UK:



Again this was covered on P.12. However, in view of questions about Reilly's manufacturing ability, acumen and practice, this will be posted again to drive the point home - Reilly was not your ordinary "retailer":

The 1866 Snider Enfield was regarded by the British Army only as a stop-gap until a fully dedicated breech loader could be developed and adopted. In 1867 Ordinance put out the call for a breech loader design - Ordinance had found the .577 bullet went sub-sonic at about 400 meters and was interested in a smaller caliber round with a faster muzzle velocity (see the post on the Martini Henry on p.12):

In 1867 the Belgian firm Comblain took out a patent on a breech loader. The patent presented as "Reilly-Comblain," was described in “The Engineer” of May 15, 1868 on page 347. https://books.google.com/books?id=2E5HAQ...fle&f=false



Reilly went into partnership with Comblain to try to market it to the Ordinance. The bid didn’t progress very far. Apparently the Army felt it was too similar to the Snider. The Comblain breech loader was adopted by Belgium and for 30 years by the Brazilian army. However, Reilly became the “sole manufacturers” of Comblain’s in Britain and his name is on at least seven of them that are extant.

. . . . . . . . . . 1969 Bradshaw . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1968 Black's Guide
Note Paris medals, appearance of the new branch at rue Scribe, Paris, addition in 1969 of "suppliers to the Emperor" to the advertisements:


Most Reilly-Comblains have only the London address-it was a British army trials after all and having a Frenchy address would not have been a plus; however one trials gun has “Paris” stamped on the butt plate. Some of the below guns were proofed in Belgium; none of them have a Reilly Serial Number on them; I don't know how many were manufactured in UK. Thus, I've concluded they were not made by The Reilly workshops in London. Some of the examples below have “E.M.Reilly & Co., Sole Manufacturers, New Oxford St London just ahead of the breech; The patent use numbers range from 25 to 5298 - and that's a lot of guns being marketed and sold by Reilly.

Patent use #25. .577 Snider, 20 1/2" barrel. The top of the action is engraved "H. HOLLAND / 98 NEW BOND ST. / LONDON", the lockplate is engraved simply "H. HOLLAND" and the breechblock is marked "REILLY-COMBLAIN / PATENT NO. / 125". A brass plaque affixed to the bottom of the stock beneath action is beautifully engraved "Reilly / Comblain / Patent / No. 25”. (I cannot explain how H&H made this gun - perhaps it was before Reilly became "sole manufacturer).





Patent use #32. .577 Reilly-Comblain rifle, serial no. 32. Blued 30in barrel, block and blade fore-sight, ladder rear-sight, the nocksform signed 'E.M. REILLY & Co. RIFLE MANUFACTURERS, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON', lift up lever with horizontal bolt handle mounted to the right hand side lifting and drawing out the breech-block, the block signed 'REILLY-COMBLAIN PATENT No. 32', plain colour-hardened lock signed 'E.M. REILLY & Co. LONDON’.



Patent use #???. This rifle is stamped on the barrel ahead of the breach E.M.Reilly & Co Sole Manufacturers New Oxford St., London on the lock plate E.M.Reilly & Co. London. Caliber is .577.



Patent use #5048: Reilly Comblain rifle; 30”, barrel with Birmingham proofs "25", sabre bayonet lug and typical period Enfield sights; 5-groove rifling like the 1860 or '61 Short Rifles. Chambered for the .577 Snider round. Receiver ring stamped "E.M.REILLY & Co / SOLE MANUFACTURERS / NEW OXFORD STREET / LONDON" . Breechblock stamped "REILLY-COMBLAIN / PATENT No 5048". Butt is marked with a large 3" ink stamp "PATENTED BY E.M. REILLY & Co., LONDON & PARIS".



Patent Use #5298. Fusil d'infanterie à percussion centrale, modèle E. M. Reilly ; calibre 14,8 mm ; canon poli blanc, poinçonné et signé : "E. M. Reilly & C° Sole Manufacturers new Oxford Street London" ; culasse marquée : "Reilly Comblain patent n° 5298" ; platine avant polie blanc, marquée : "E M Reilly & C° London”. (Poli Blanc = carbon steel).

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/05/19 03:17 PM

I've been asked some questions about the above; to clarify, here are the points I'm trying to make with these posts:
1) Reilly had an intimate knowledge of the gun making business and extensive contacts in Europe, London and Birmingham.
2) He was not confined to trying to "eek out" an existence by selling bespoke guns. He had numerous and extensive lines of revenue coming into the company; in other words he was not just a gun retailer and repairer; He was an entrepreneur and a force in the gun making world at the time running a large company.
3) He put his name on a lot of guns sold under license, made for him under license, sold as retail, sold as wholesale. He did not claim he made these guns. Reilly's name and engravingcan be found on the following guns he retailed, which have no Reilly SN:
Adams . . . . . . . . . Winchester . . . . . . Lee Speed
Trantor . . . . . . . . . Sharps . . . . . . . . . Snider Enfield
Colt . . . . . . . . . . . Martini-Henry. . . . Westley Richards
Walker Bulldog . . . . Enfield . . . . . .
And various muzzle and breech loaders with no make name other than Reilly and no SN, proofed in Birmingham plus all the rook-rifles he sold.

4) But - the important surmise: He only serial numbered guns he made in his workshops in London: (and this included some Enfields, Green Bros Breech loaders, Snider Infields, and one Martini Henry)
5) These guns will have London proofs.

To try to explain the Reilly numbering system otherwise does not make sense. I've addressed this several times in this line and put it in the "New Short History," but it doesn't hurt to restate the hypothesis, where we are, and what the objective of continued research is.

The history of the company has been reestablished; the serial number chronology seems pretty solid at the moment, pending appearance of additional guns; the item still being nailed down is the in-house manufacturing of Reilly Serial Numbered guns - what was made, what was bought, what was farmed-out and who were the shop foremen and workers.

And, I'd like to restate - when you look at Reilly guns as a whole - and there are a lot posted above and still active links to dozens more, there seems to be a unity to them in looks, balance, artistic design, engraving, lines - which made me conclude that he designed the guns and put them together in London - whether he bought actions or barrel blanks in the white or not,.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/09/19 10:11 PM

=============================================================================
Reilly's Ranges


Questions have been asked about Reilly's ranges and testing facilities. These are addressed above but more needs to be said:

1). Reilly had a 50 yard indoor range at 315 (277) Oxford street. This was advertised regularly over the space of 40 years from the time Reilly first occupied the building in January 1859. Here is an example but there are dozens:

. . . . . . . . 1862 London International Exposition Catalog


2). However, Reilly also had a 300 yard range somewhere close to his buildings on Oxford Street. This was first mentioned in 1851:

. . . . . . . . . . .1851 London Crystal Palace Exposition Advertisement


The 300 yard range continued to be advertised up to at least the mid-1880's:

. . . . . . . . . . . . .1882 "Modern Sportsman" - but other ads continued until 1886. (Note mention of the "Hurlingham weight" - Hurlingham, the principle pigeon shooting club, limited pigeon guns to 7lbs 8oz beginning 1883)


I wondered where might this range be and speculated it might have been in Bedfordshire at J.C.'s old country estate. But that seemed some distance to travel to test fire a gun. Then I found this advertisement:

. . . . . . . . . . .02 October 1875, "Illustrated Sporting News"


Wood-Lane, Shepards Bush was open country for years:

. . . . . . . . . .1841


It began to be built up when the Wood Lane station was opened in 1863. I can't find where Reilly owned land there but it's entirely possible. And there is a history of rifle ranges being in the area - check out this one:

"A gunmaker of Bond Street owned a shooting range provided with an iron stag which ran backwards and forwards on rails. Purchasers would test their guns on this stag..".

Since this was written at a later date, I wonder if the "Bond Street gunmaker" was really Reilly - and whether they got the date it was abandoned wrong.



In 1879 the military took over Wormwood Scrubs just off Wood Lane just north of Shepards Bush. They had ranges there but were forbidden to build structures other than the range bunkers. Sometime in the 1890's the maneuver area was guaranteed to remain open to the citizens of the neighborhood.




I'll be adding to this .....looking at property records, etc. but if any Londoners know something about the area local knowledge would be appreciated.

Print of Shooting at Shepard's Bush, 1867 - obviously not a rifle range:


The buildings at Wormwood Scrubs is now a pub called "The Pavillion."

Pavilion Parade, Wood Lane
Shepherds Bush
LONDON
W12 0HQ

The pub was built in 1861 as the Rifle Pavilion, named after the surrounding rifle ranges where volunteer units trained to counter a threatened French invasion.



Here is one of the Regiments raised in the area - Reilly sold guns to them:

[img]http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/56233_600x400.jpg[/img]

The Artists Rifles is a special forces regiment of the British Army Reserve. Raised in London in 1859 as a volunteer light infantry unit, the regiment saw active service during the Second Boer War and the First World War, earning a number of battle honours. It did not serve outside Britain during the Second World War, as it was used as an officer training unit at that time. The regiment was disbanded in 1945, but in 1947 it was re-established to resurrect the Special Air Service Regiment. Today, the full title of the Regiment is 21 Special Air Service Regiment (Artists) (Reserve) (21 SAS(R)) and with 23 Special Air Service Regiment (Reserve) (23 SAS(R)), it forms the Special Air Service (Reserve) (SAS(R)).
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/09/19 10:26 PM

Might as well put this out too: If Reilly did not build guns, then here's another fellow in 1875 who sure was fooled:

. . . . . .27 November 1875, "Illustrated Sport and Drama News"
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 08:02 AM

You know I've owned some really nice condition "Best" English hammer guns...Scott Premier grade a Purdey and a Blisset and I never let one possess my very existence like this Reilly has done to you...

Have you ever shot or hunted with your Reilly ?




Posted by: canvasback

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 10:12 AM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
You know I've owned some really nice condition "Best" English hammer guns...Scott Premier grade a Purdey and a Blisset and I never let one possess my very existence like this Reilly has done to you...

Have you ever shot or hunted with your Reilly ?






jOe, not sure if you realize this but it is only through the dogged pursuit of history that we get any clarity of the past. Not all of us are bitten by that bug, I am sure not, but those who are leave a legacy of knowledge.

For example, 25-30 years ago, no one knew who H.A Lindner was. All of us in the double gun world are richer for the effort a small group made to uncover the truth about who had made those Daly guns. The guys who wrote the book on Parker are sometimes credited with the entire resurgence of SxS in North America.

Argo does this for his own reasons and while I don't care much about Reilly's, I'm glad he has those reasons.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 10:16 AM

It was all made possible by the internet.

Just curious as to why his obsession with one maker.
Posted by: ellenbr

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 10:21 AM

If Argo44 doesn't sort it out, who will? Hat's off to him as we still have the aforementioned Lindner - Daly(Canvas-Back) as well as 3 Ringe & 4 Ringe Spezial Stahl, etc. to sort. Pieces of the puzzle that exist today will be swept under the rug tomorrow possibly to never be found again. Maybe everyone should pick their favourite maker instead of incite to riot, etc.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 10:26 AM

Hey jOe. See first page. I thought about owning a double for many years. In November 2015 I went out to a gun show near Dulles Airport to buy a Thompson. I came back with a Reilly - my first ever double. It still is the most perfectly fitted gun for me. I don't hunt much anymore, maybe once a year in Missouri - one of my VN compatriots, who served many years abroad in other capacities with me, has a farm there. But I do shoot clays about every week or two here.

I got interested in when the gun was made, found a confused mess about Reilly history, and got into it. And I subsequently spent a lot of time in a desert region abroad with nothing much else to do. The more I delved into 19th century newspapers the more interesting it became and history really did come alive,.

jOe, sometimes you are funny; Many times you are just mean-spirited and vicious...but Alabamians expect that from Tennesseans, you know. Anyway, it all can be read above....oh wait a minute, we Alabamians know that's a difficult skill for a Tennessean...but there are a lot of pics. smile (Frank, just good naturerdly giving you as good as I get. smile
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 10:27 AM

I've researched every gun I've owned from 160 years old to 10 years old...

But I never cared how many times James Purdey, W.C.Scott or John Browning had a bowel movement in a day.

Those 3 were the only real innovators in my opinion...the rest were just followers.

Reilly made some nice guns or had some nice guns made...who cares he was a follower.
Posted by: ellenbr

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 10:29 AM

Originally Posted By: Argo44
...but Alabamians expect that from Tennesseans, you know. Anyway, it all can be read above....oh wait a minute, we Alabamians know that's a difficult skill for a Tennessean...


Preach on Argo44 & pass the plate as I live w/ a Tennessean.....


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted by: ellenbr

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 10:32 AM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe


Those 3 were the only real innovators in my opinion...the rest were just followers.


Yeah & they were all following the Bohemians & the Germans as the rest were playing tiddlywinks.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 10:35 AM

I've always had trouble understanding your Bohemians & the German gun e'ffliction for lack of a better word....

They made nice rifles but I've never seen one of their shotguns I'd own.

While the English and American gun makers were playing "tittlywinks"...start a thread and show us what they offered that stood the test of time.

James Purdey the double under bite...W.C. Scott the top lever...John Browning gun designs too numerous to list and a lot still in use today.

Start a thread and top those 3.

Posted by: ellenbr

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 10:38 AM

Not sure how I was badged w/ "Belgian gun e'ffliction(sic)(affliction)" phrase but that is just a facade. Belgium is a good ways from Bohemia.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted by: canvasback

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 10:40 AM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I've always had trouble understanding your Bohemians & the German gun e'ffliction for lack of a better word....

They made nice rifles but I've never seen one of their shotguns I'd own.

I realize they made a few nice guns. Just remember John Browning put their name on the gun making map.


I don't think John Browning had much to do with putting Bohemian and German gunmakers on the map. He did have something to do with the Belgians, giving Henri Piper's baby, FN, something to fill their production lines.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 10:44 AM

You caught me before I edited. I don't have a clue or a care where Bohemia is or was....
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 10:53 AM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I've always had trouble understanding your Bohemians & the German gun e'ffliction for lack of a better word....

They made nice rifles but I've never seen one of their shotguns I'd own.

While the English and American gun makers were playing "tittlywinks"...start a thread and show us what they offered that stood the test of time.

James Purdey the double under bite...W.C. Scott the top lever...John Browning gun designs too numerous to list and a lot still in use today.

Start a thread and top those 3.



Here's the edited version...

Canvasback do you ever tire of your childish games.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 12:24 PM

Getting back to Reilly, I've posted an advertisement above which seems to indicate that at least from the 1830's J.C. Reilly was boring his own barrels:



I ran across this delightful and interesting passage in an 1894 book called "Incidents of Foreign Sport and Travel," 1894, by Colonel Pollok. It mentions two points:
1. The integrity of an 1840's muzzle loader barrel by Reilly.
2. His opinion of Liege made barrels.

Posted by: canvasback

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 12:28 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I've always had trouble understanding your Bohemians & the German gun e'ffliction for lack of a better word....

They made nice rifles but I've never seen one of their shotguns I'd own.

While the English and American gun makers were playing "tittlywinks"...start a thread and show us what they offered that stood the test of time.

James Purdey the double under bite...W.C. Scott the top lever...John Browning gun designs too numerous to list and a lot still in use today.

Start a thread and top those 3.



Here's the edited version...

Canvasback do you ever tire of your childish games.


What game am I playing jOe?

I pointed out the value of researchers and historians and corrected a factual error.

Do you ever tire of running down those who don't think exactly as you do? Because that was the only point of your post wondering why Argo is interested in Reillys. To denigrate him and his interests.

I would hope that when I make factual errors in my posts that someone corrects me.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/10/19 12:37 PM

Could I ask you all to please don't start this personal crap, here - send PM's instead. I think this is a very good historical line; it's the most complete line of information on Reilly anywhere in the world and has been pretty professional thus far. If you dispute that Reilly made guns, we'll talk about it. Thanks.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/11/19 07:33 AM

I only talk to my friends in PMs...
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/22/19 07:57 PM

======================================Reilly Serial Numbered - non Serial-Numbered====================================
While continuing research on Reilly manufacturing capabilities in London, I'd like to post a few Reilly guns that look like Reilly made them, but no SN....which to me means Reilly did not claim to have built them. I can submit dozens of these including a lot of pistols of indeterminate make (not Adams, Colts, etc) but this should make the point that some Reillys, which look very "Reilly," were not claimed to have been made by him.

========================================================================================================================
12 bore SxS Muzzle Loader pin fire: No SN
This gun is currently for sale: Muzzle loading SxS hammer gun. Name on the rib is E.M Reilly & Co., London" with "Reilly London" on the hammers. No visible SN. Normally with the EM Reilly & Co., it would mean the gun were built after October 1859. Note, there are pistols and other guns with "EM Reilly" (no "& Co.") on the rib that were before made before the changeover in the company name. These guns have no Reilly SN. However, with "& Co.", this muzzle loader was built after Oct 1859 up to about 1885 or so (there is a E.M. Reilly & Co. muzzle loader in existence with 277 Oxford street on the rib - .ie. post November 1881).. The gun has a London Proof....but no SN...thus I believe it was ordered, not made, by Reilly. Comment: This stock has the most drop I've ever seen in a Reilly.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/494/1/AAR-823

This fine antique double barrel percussion shotgun is stocked in checkered figured walnut with crisp locks, and barrels engraved E.M. Reilly & Co. London on the upper rib. London proof house markings, 12, and a small R.W. stamp. Both locks are expertly hand engraved with scrolls and Reilly & Co. below the breech.



Compare it to SN 8578 with J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford St., London on the rib:



========================================================================================================================
British Enfield 1853 Rifle Muskets:


No SN: Two band Enfield made for Yoemanry militia.



SN 11227: Compare with the below classic 3 band Enfield with a crown stamped on it. (Note: This is the first extant Reilly with "E.M. Reilly & Co." on the gun - 1859.



Or to SN 11419, 2 band Enfield - with only "Reilly and an unclear address on the barrel:




========================================================================================================================
No SN: 8 bore Single Hammer pin fire:
. (LEFT)
Gavin said this gun has no SN and Birmingham proofs. I concluded that Reilly sold it - he didn't make it.
http://www.gavingardiner.com/BidCat/detail.asp?SaleRef=0024&LotRef=295
Description: E. M. REILLY & CO. AN 8-BORE SINGLE BARREL HAMMER GUN 34 1/4-inch round to octagonal three-stage barrel with 3 1/4-inch chamber, about true cylinder boring, the frame, non-rebounding bar lock, hammer and rotary underlever with scroll engraving, 14 1/2-inch figured stock including 3/4-inch extension, 9lb. 9oz., nitro re-proof S2
top



RIGHT: Compare it to SN 10314, Reilly 6 bore muzzle loader with "Reilly, New Oxford Street, London" on the rib:

========================================================================================================================
4 bore, Muzzle loading Hammer gun
(TOP)
No SN. Restocked in South Africa (for a left hander?)...but Birmingham proof. I've concluded it was sold by Reilly, not made by Reilly:

http://jamesdjulia.com/item/2347-391/
4 bore belted ball hammer percussion rifle muzzle loader. Tapered octagon twist bbl is mounted with one standing leaf rear, and “certifiable antique elephant ivory” blade front sight. Top flat is engraved “E. M. Reilly & Co. London”. Bottom flat is stamped with Birmingham black powder proof. . Case hardened patent breech is engraved with large open scroll. Case hardened breech iron with integral fence is engraved with large shaded scroll. Large bar action lockplate is mounted with tall, round bodied, slightly serpentine hammer. Hammer and lockplate are engraved with more large open scroll. “E. M. Reilly & Co” is on front portion of plate. Trigger plate is mounted with germanic type double set triggers, and trigger must be set before lock can be cocked. Trigger guard with squared bow has shell finial, and is also scroll engraved. Full length stock with swan-necked butt, is of indeterminate tropical wood (restocked in South Africa?); blued steel buttplate. Stock features large germanic style swept shadow line left hand cheekpiece. A hand forged ramrod is held by single plain pipe. Weight: 16 lbs. 6 oz.



Compare to SN 84XX, 6 bore Reilly, 502 New Oxford St., London (1848) - BOTTOM

========================================================================================================================
No SN: 4 barrel gun:


Beautifully made. Reilly advertised four barrel guns in the 1850's, early 1860's. Name, address on the rib is E.M Reilly 502 New Oxford Street (post Oct 1859) and the label is the classic Reilly label for 502 with medals existing from 1856 until the sketch of the building was done away with in August 1860. But no Serial Number and it may have been proofed in Birmingham:

http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a-...42-c-a92474cb0a

Description: A rare cased four barreled percussion gun by Reilly, dating: mid-19th Century, provenance: London. Round, smooth barrels; the upper ones are 11 mm cal.



========================================================================================================================
No SN: 12 Sidelock made by Reilly for Oaks & Co., Madras, India (No SN mentioned)




Compare to 33619

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/24/19 11:10 AM

To follow up on this Serial Numbered - non-Serial Numbered Reilly guns, here are a few pistols. This was addressed on page 8 above but I'll repost it.

1). Reilly early on made pistols as well as long guns and serial numbered them. Here is a May 1831 advertisement.


Two of the very earliest still existing Reilly's are pistols. Here is SN 176, formerly owned by Terry Buffum:


Yet the last SN'd pistol I can find would be dated around 1837. Here's a pistol almost identical to 176 but no SN. Whether Reilly made it or not...he didn't claim it:


========================================================
He sold Colt derringers, all sorts of revolvers, pepperboxes....you name it. He engraved these and put his name on it....but the name of the manufacturer was always there. There are pistols with no manufacturer's name except Reilly and no SN, most with London proof marks. I assume he contracted for these and engraved and sold them retail (though he could have built the en masse and just sold them). The addresses and names on the guns can be confusing though. Here are some similar examples:

========================================================
No SN
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/cased-pair-of-j.c.-reilly-percussion-traveler-s-p-FE943AD9A8
Description: Cased Pair of Engraved J.C. Reilly Percussion Traveler's Pistols with Accessories -A) Reilly Pistol Cased Pair of Engraved J.C. Reilly Percussion Traveler's Pistols with Accessories -The pistols are likely from the 1840s and are marked "J.C. REILLY LONDON" on the top of the barrels which have post and notch sights, swivel mounted ramrods, and banded breeches. The locks are marked "REILLY" on the bottom edge below the hammer.


Compare to this one - also No SN but with EM (& Co.) (not sure I believe this advertisement) allegedly on the gun:
An early 19th century double barrelled percussion pistol, by
E.M.Reilly & Co 11.5ins £250-300
http://www.icollector.com/An-early-19th-...1-5ins_i1254067


Or this one by Reilly:
No SN, A 19th century percussion service pistol by Reilly of London with 8½ damascus barrel engraved steel lock with walnut full stock captive ramrod brass furniture and lanyard ring “
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...9d-a56000f4806b


=========================================================
Here are o/u pistols by Reilly with no SN, proofed in London, sold by Reilly. If he made them, he didn't claim them:

A good example of a 19th century over and under percussion pistol with the original belt clip. Reilly, New Oxford Street, London
http://www.onlinegalleries.com/art-and-antiques/detail/reilly-double-barrel-pistol/163836


Barrel stamped "Reilly. New Oxford St. London." London proof marks.No SN
https://collections.museumvictoria.com.au/items/373432


12mm Pistol by E.M.Reilly & Co LondonNo SN (the "& Co." dates it post Oct 1859)
http://www.jjmilitaryantiques.com/Home.aspx/Catdet/JJ20235?nm=english-4-shot-percussion-swivel-barrel-pistol-by-reilly&category=euroweap&bread_last=%2FHome.aspx%2FCatpage%2Feuroweap%3Fpsize%3D10%26sortseq%3DName&category_desc=Longarms%20%26%20Pistols%20European%20Pre1898#.WjT2ShiZPMU


========================================================================================================================
Left: SN 1292. From my chart I dated this 1837 - this is the last Reilly serial numbered pistol I can find so far:
http://www.garthvincent.com/antique/1597/a+miniature+pocket+pistol/
A Miniature 120-Bore Box-Lock Percussion Pocket Pistol By Reilly of London, Circa 1850. With round turn-off barrel engraved with a band of foliage at the breech, signed scroll engraved action, signed 'Reilly' on a scroll on the left and 'London' on a scroll to the right, blued concealed trigger, finely chequered walnut butt with diamond shaped escutcheon and stamped with a serial number on the inside edge, '1292', in untouched condition. 



Right: Compare it to the above fine similar engraved pistols - no Serial numbers:
Engraved and Silver-Inlaid Small English Boxlock Percussion Muff Pistols by Reilly, c. 1840 frames marked: Reilly/ London.
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20britannique/artisan%20p%20q%20r/a%20reilly%20gb.htm

I've looked at hundred of pistols....finally abandoned it since they had no SN's after 1837 and couldn't help the chronology. But more study might help in understanding the names and addresses put on the ribs of long guns. It also reinforces the understanding of the entrepreneurship and financial diversity of the company,.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/24/19 11:13 AM

You think you were a Reilly salesmen in a previous life ?
Posted by: JBLondon

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/24/19 05:42 PM

...
Posted by: Drew Hause

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/24/19 05:55 PM

Sorry, late to the party, but possibly of interest.
"An Afternoon At Wormwood Scrubs"
A.B. Frost in The Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News April 6, 1878. Hammersmith and Fulham, West London.
Lower right appears that gunners and dogs waited for "clean up' past the boundary line.

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/24/19 07:56 PM

Thanks Doctor. Interesting. That explains this part of the 1882 rules from Holt's shooting Calendar:

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/25/19 08:35 PM

I'd like to finish this business about Revolvers and pistols because I spent an awful lot of time early on looking at Reilly hand-guns. In the end I could find no consistent way to identify them other than the age of the pistol itself. Even in the 1850's pistols were being engraved "Reilly, London"," E.M Reilly, London" etc.

Anyway he retailed a lot of revolvers of almost every type...including ones imported in parts from Belgium and assembled by Reilly in his buildings from really 1851 when Colt made such an impact at the Crystal Palace World's Fair up to the time the firm went belly up. (and some are extraordinary such as the gold washed Trantor-that did not come from Trantor like that). This may have been part of the reason late 20th century experts began to say he never built anything himself. Here are a few in collage form. I'll let you all identify what's what. (hint: Includes Colt, Smith&Wesson, Adams, Webley, Beaumont-Adams, Webley-Sykes, Tower Bulldog, Trantor...)





=======================================================================================
VAMPIRE KIT:
And by the way...here are a couple of neat 1835-47 (address is 316 Holborn on the guns) Reilly hammer pistols firing silver bullets. (Note how similar they are to the last SN'd Reilly above 1292). I think we may need this kit for this board:

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/02/11/19t...or-grabs-photos
A kit that includes everything from a matched set of pistols with silver bullets to wooden stakes and a mallet recently hit the market.
New Jersey-based International Military Antiques posted the one-of-a-kind Vampire Defense Kit this month on their site. Tied to Sir Philip Burne-Jones, an English painter who specialized in portraits that included one of Rudyard Kipling, the kit dates to about the 1890s when Burne-Jones was working on his painting, The Vampire, which came out the same year as the Gothic horror classic, Dracula by Irish author Bram Stoker. The painting later proved one of Burne-Jones’s best-known works.
Among the more interesting contents of the velvet-lined case are a set of apothecary bottles, wooden stakes along with a mallet to drive said stakes through the heart of a blood-sucker, an 1859 Bible, silver rosary, and a pair of .50-caliber percussion pocket pistols, marked “Reilly of London.”



Burne-Jones Painting:


That's it for hand-guns unless more serial numbered Reilly's come to light. If anyone wants to see derringers, pepper-boxes, Houdah's, Flobert's, I have saved dozens....won't help much with Reilly Chronology though.



Posted by: mergus

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/25/19 09:06 PM

I'm loving this thread!

Mergus
Posted by: Stan

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 02/25/19 09:10 PM

No doubt the Reilly pocket pistols were intended to be used with silver bullets.

SRH
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 03/29/19 09:57 PM

Still working on Reilly manufacturing piece. it is now very solid. In the meantime, for Reilly .500 BPE shooters, here is a load which works for 9.3X75R from this line:

https://www.handloadersbench.com/forum/m...ble-rifle/page2

the S/N, on the bottom trigger guard tang, is 203XX. The legend on the barrel is just, "E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London", on the left barrel and "& Rue Scribe" on the right barrel. There neither is nor was any numbers with the addresses. Mine has had the barrels re-blacked sometime in the distant past and I believe the butt stock has been refinished. The butt is a beautiful piece of walnut. I has a keyed forearm, is a Jones underlever, steel grip cap and butt plate. I suppose it is scroll engraving and is very fine. Both lock plates have "E.M. Reilly & Co. engraved at the top edge. Oh, I want to remember the gentleman I bought it from some 20 years ago told me the rib had been recut. I don't know how to tell other than it is in good condition. Mine has a cheek rest and a silver escutcheon inlaid approximately 6 inches forward of the butt plate and about 1 1/2 inches rearward of the butt stock sling stud., one standing and one folding, shallow "V" rear sight and a silver bead front sight.....maybe. I guess it's silver.

My "Nitro for Black" load is 60 grs. of IMR-3031, open cell foam filler to fit the empty space to the bottom of the bullet and a 350 gr. hard cast bullet. Group size runs between 2" and 2 1/2" at 50 yards. A Hawk bullet of the same weight can be substituted.

I was never able to get a straight black powder load to shoot to the sights or regulate. I did work up a duplex load of 8 grs. of SR-4759 under either 110 or 115 grs. of Old Eynsford 2F, a beeswax base wad, an SPG grease cookie, a .020 card wad over that and all under 350 gr. cast bullet of 25-1 alloy, sized to .500 and paper patched. It's a PITA to load but it does shoot to point of aim and regulates both barrels. Group size runs around 3 inches at 50 yards.

I don't know if all Reilly's have Henry rifling but mine does. I'll never own another rifle so rifled.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 04/11/19 06:44 PM

======================================================================================================================
Questions on Reilly as a "vertical" gun making concern (making all parts himself)
.


This will go over some old posts summarizing them, and asking for opinions:

By 1860 EM Reilly, building on the expertise of his Father J.C. and his own business acumen had created an empire. With his partners (unknown), he was running two huge buildings at 502 New Oxford and 315 Oxford Streets. 315 included a 50 yard shooting range; a 300 yard private shooting range was located nearby at Shepard’s bush. These two building included retail sales spaces, manufactories and EM Reilly’s residence. 315 was located next to Purdy’s located at 314 1/2, whose shop was dwarfed by the size of Reilly’s building.



In these two buildings Reilly created multiple streams of revenue for the company:

1) He made Serial Numbered bespoke long-guns at a rate of about 2 a day for every day of the year - shotguns, rifles, rook rifles, double, single, multiple barrels, hammer guns, muzzle loaders, center break guns, breech loaders, Jones underlevers, etc. He allegedly built every piece of these guns. He bored, honed, chambered and rifled the barrels, cut the stocks, made and filed the actions. By 1880 this bespoke gun production increased to 3 a day. Customers were allowed to watch the progress of their gun from day to day in the factories.



...1862 article on a fight in Sarawak................... 1900 book


2). He inspected, finished and engraved long guns made under contract from Birmingham which he sold off the rack with his name on the rib. To do this he juggled contacts with Birmingham gun makers and with other London gun makers.

Non-serial numbered gun contracted for and retailed by Reilly


3). In the 1860’s He made over 5000 Green Brothers breech loaders and 5000 Reilly-Comblain breech loaders, to which he had exclusive manufacturing rights, probably contracted to a factory in Birmingham.



4). Per at least one poster, he also manufactured guns for other prominent London gun makers.

Here is a non SN’d 12 bore he made about 1890 for Oaks & Co. Madras:


5). He assembled high-quality revolvers shipped to him in parts from Liege, engraved them, had them proofed in England and retailed them with his name on the rib.



6) He engraved revolvers and pistols from named manufacturers such as Colt, S&W, Trantor, Adams, Walker, etc. and put his name on the ribs and retailed them.



7). He inspected engraved and retailed long-guns from named manufacturers such as Westley-Richards putting his name on the guns while retaining the names of the makers.

8). He made in their entirety air-cane guns with his name on them, but no SN.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 04/11/19 06:47 PM

9) He engraved everything including swords and bayonets:



10) He manufactured cartridges and other ammunition bits:




11). He sold guns wholesale to gun clubs and Yoemanry Militia.



12). And from the beginning he conducted a huge retail business in used long guns and pistols that he would inspect, test and guarantee.

May 1834 article on the futility of amateurs trying to find “bargains” in local bankruptcy sales:


EM Reilly had to be quite the entrepreneur to keep all these business balls in the air at one time and indeed he was. When he died in July 1890 he had just about the same amount of cash in his account, £8400, as was left to him by his father J.C. upon J.C.’s death in Jan 1864. But he had the buildings and the inventory, indicating he must have plowed his earnings back into his company.

As research continues, here are some thoughts which I’d appreciate some help with. There are some very knowledgeable readers here who have forwarded comments both skeptical and encouraging…LeFusil, Justin, and others. And now it’s time for some UK’ers to wade in because this is London history.

300 employees - a “vertical” vice “horizontal” company

By 1880 EM. Reilly allegedly (I have not personally seen these census records) told a census taker that he employed about 300 people. This is an enormous number!!! The London 19th century businesses were especially entrepreneurial. In 1850 there were only 7 firms in all of London with more than 350 employees.



David Trevallion told me that Purdey employed about 12 persons in 1953…Holland&Holland a max of about 25 in the 1890’s. 300 employees in 1880 would make Reilly one of the largest if not the largest gun-maker in London. Per David this would change his ideas about the nature of gun-making in London in the 19th century.

London gun makers (and for the most part the Birmingham as well) were “horizontal”…relying on an intricate network of sub-contractors; i.e. they supervised and subcontracted the essential work to others in the trade and assembled and quality controlled the final product.

But there were a few “vertical” gun making firms at the time…beginning in the 1850’s with the Colt Factory; and later Trantor…which claimed to do everything internally, If Reilly had 300 employees in 1880 (which would have included retail sales persons at three locations including Paris, shop foremen, stockers, action filers, etc.), and if he could allow customers to follow the progress of their orders in person in the factory, then most certainly the Reilly Company was, unusually, a “vertical” one as maintained in the ads…. I.e. It made everything internally for his Serial Numbered guns.

Questions:
— Is it possible to verify that Reilly employed 300 persons in 1880? It looks as if someone got a list of the number of employees of companies in London from the 1851 census.
— Are there English business publications from that time period with information on British companies in London? The above article comment has to be based on something.

Here’s what I will be doing:
— I intend to go over the 1861, 71 and 81 London census person by person to record who was involved in the gun trade at the time (unless this has been done somehow). It will take awhile but I’ll publish the result. David thinks there will be less than 1,000 workers in London. We’ll see.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 04/16/19 04:15 PM

======================================================================================================================
Questions on Machine Tools used for manufacturing guns
.
Now I’m going to look silly in this gun-making/smithing group. I’m trying to figure out what machines Reilly might have had in his buildings to make bespoke guns to the tune of up to 3 a day in the late 1800’s:

In June 1898 Reilly gave up 502 (16) New Oxford Street which the company’d occupied and where they’d made guns for 51 years. You’ll see from the chart that bespoke gun orders at that time had fallen from a high of over 1,000 in the early 1880’s to about 250 a year. A couple of very knowledgeable posters have suggested that I take a look at what items were sold from that building. If gun workshops were located in 16 New Oxford Street, the equipment had to go someplace - there would have been no room at 277 Oxford St., which already was a “manufactury” on its own. So now I need to search the British papers, specialty publications and possibly auctions for sales from that building in 1898. I am not a gunsmith, a metallurgist, a machinist, or a mechanical engineer specializing in manufacturing processes. So I need some help on what to look for; Here is my thinking in the subject:

Manufacturing by template: Historically British gun making in Birmingham and London was based on “templates.” With template made parts, hand filed and finished, tolerances varied by as much as 1/16”. Parts of course could not be interchanged. Everything was “bespoke.” Actions, hammers, etc. filed accordingly. Even so Birmingham and London, with the “horizontal” organization of the gun trade, with artisan apprentice trained workers, demonstrated time and again they could produce an enormous number of hand-made guns including hundreds of thousands of military weapons, the major production bottleneck being the making and inletting of the stocks.

Gauges/made to tolerance system: The “American system” arrived in England in the 1850’s, e.g: guns built to tolerances measured by gauges, made by milling machines with interchangeable parts. The American System in the beginning was mostly limited to London. The guns initially made on this system were for the military and with parts being interchangeable were were markedly more expensive than the hand-made versions. Birmingham was late to adopt the milling machines and especially the major bottle-neck for military production - the stock making reproduction lathes. It remained a hand-made haven.

So, a 50 year old factory at 502 (16) Oxford would have been unlikely to have had the milling machines etc. necessary for mass production of military type weapons. It would have been geared to a 19th temp-plate bespoke gun making process with traditional stock makers, action filers, engravers, bone-meal Damascus barrel browning, etc.. Thus, I think all I’d be looking for as far as gun making machinery for sale would be the following - with the help of Greener’s “Gunnery in 1858” book: see: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/43799/43799-h/43799-h.htm

— barrel making:

……. borer:


From advertisements, Reilly had barrel borers at least as early as 1840. It’s possible Reilly could have been making his own Damascus barrel stocks from the 1840’s- on…or he could have bought barrel blanks from Birmingham. I won’t address this. But most publications claim that by late 1890’s over 75% of British Damascus barrels came for Liege. I can say more about his.

……. Barrel grinder:


…….Rifling, honing, lapping, etc. Reilly always sold a lot of rifles. Rifling could be hand done…at least up to 1860’s. Later on Reilly could have had one of several rifling machine:

1863 Pratt & Whitney sine bar rifling machine made in UK by Greenwood and Batley:

Muir & sons rifling machine:

Or an 1883 Greenwood and Batley rifling machine (sine bar)


— Actions, hammers, springs, side plates, trigger guards: The actions would have been made to temp-plate and hand filed. However, as the 1800’s advanced, he probably had some milling machines in the buildings.

Stocks: the Stocks (and Reilly stocks to me are almost immediately recognizable) would have been hand made. He imported a lot of French Walnut. Stock making was the big bottle neck to military grade production thus the adoption of American Lathe copying machines. He probably didn’t need this machine:

Blanchard Stock Copying lathe


Lathes: He would have had foot treadle lathes for making pins and screws. David Trevallion told me that was his first job with Purdey in 1953..operate the foot treadle lathe. These and been around forever.



Power: Entire factories in Birmingham were run on a 125 HP steam engine with leather belt driven machines and that from 1820 onwards. This and the traditional hand/foot power would have been the power source for an Reilly workshop at 502 (16) New Oxford Street or 315 (277) Oxford Street.

Here are some photos of the American governments arsenal at Harpers Ferry - I’ve been trying to identify the machines in the gun shop - I live close enough to go up there to take a look:






He also made cartridges, took out patents on improving cartridges and marked these under the Reilly name. He must have had cartridge and bullet making machines.

Questions: When I search British newspapers normally I’ll search under the address “502” or “502 New Oxford” or “Reilly” or variants. However, if I were to look for gun manufacturing equipment and machines for sale in 1898, I will search for “borer,” “grinder,” “treadle lathe,”…but are there other signature machines associated with gun-making from that time period which would signal what Reilly had in that building? Drill presses? I don’t think screw manufacturing machines were available until the 1880’s

I’ll ultimately write this up in a pamphlet….the old saw…”If it’s not written, it didn’t exist” is the driving force. But I would like some sanity checks. I intended to visit Southern on Saturday 27 April for a few hours…my first trip to a SxS gathering…and intended to check in with DGJ and try to make contact with some of the writers who have encouraged this research. Per a phone call over the week-end, however, other priorities have intervened and I'm headed abroad again. But if there are other gun making machines I should be looking for in sales advertisements in the 1898 press, would appreciate commentary.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/24/19 06:04 PM

===================================================================================\
Outlier Serial Numbers

-- On P. 20 is the new short history of Reilly; I stand by every word of it. It includes a chart dating serial numbers.
-- On P. 22 is the list of extant or known Reilly guns by SN.
Everything advances in order from (c1825) 001 to about 3400 in 1847. Then once at 502 New Oxford Street the main-line picks up at about SN 8400 and continues unbroken to about 36,000 (1912)...with a side line reserved by J.C....from about 7000 to 8060 (early 1847 to Sep 1857).

Well, into this well-ordered universe...and E.M was organized....outliers - odd serial numbers - occasionally come to light. Here are 6 of them with discussions, illustrating that even if your gun has an out of sequence SN, it might still be dated using other means.

========================================================
3007 - It had to have been made after Jan 1859 and may not be a Reilly number - might actually be 13007
?????

Advertisement:
http://www.tennants.co.uk/Catalogue/Lots/225065.aspx
A 19th Century 16 Bore Double Barrel Pinfire Shotgun by E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford Street, London, the 73.5cm browned steel barrel signed on the rib, with Birmingham proof marks and numbered 3007, with signed foliate engraved back action, under-lever break, walnut stock with chequered grip and fore-end


Discussion: Address shows it cannot have been made before Jan 1859 when Reilly opened 315 Oxford St. it is a center break gun. With a Jones underlever, patent was given in Sep 1859, you could push the first possible date further forward but I've seen a muzzle loader converted to center break many years later. It has Birmingham proof marks and the "SN" is uncharacteristically on the barrel. This is either not a Reilly SN - all Reilly SN'd guns at the time were London proofed - or it is an outlier. There are no photos of the SN...it could be a typo. Could it possibly be 13007 - 1863?

The gun is very similar to Terry Buffum's 13033. Perhaps there is a "1" missing from the front of the SN?


=========================================================
3402 - SN would indicate early 1847 - address shows it to be post Feb 1868
Terry Buffum


Advertisement:
https://live.amoskeagauction.com/m/lot-details/index/catalog/18/lot/6687?url=%2Fm%2Fsearch%3Fkey%3Dreilly
.577 cal, Rifle SxS; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle Loader (Buffum).
serial #3402, about .58 cal, 23 1/2” heavy four groove rifled bores rating about excellent showing some very light frosting. The barrels show very nice contrasting gray and brown mottled damascus twist their full-length, showing also some remnants of some very light pinprick pitting scattered about the left tube. The left tube is maker marked with London address, the right with “& Rue Scribe Paris”. ...The locks are crisp and mechanically functional and feature forward-sliding safeties, the case-hardened breeches feature platinum blowout plugs and both of the triggers show nice checkering on their faces; (3B7147-157) {ANTIQUE} [Terry Buffum Collection]





Discussion: The right tube has "rue Scribe." It is a muzzle loader. But with rue Scribe it has to be after Feb 1868....the earliest gun with rue Scribe we've found is 12 bore's 14983.. So the SN is unexplainably quirky. Given the completeness of the address, I still think Reilly made the gun.

=========================================================
3514. - Label would place it between late 1855-Jan 1959 - Might be 13514?


Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 13bore. Shotgun SxS. Muzzle loader, hammer gun.
Advertisement:
C1850 - CASED IN ORIGINAL MAHOGANY CASE WITH REILLY TRADE LABEL.BARRELS MARKED 13 BORE. RIB ENGRAVED WITH REILEY, 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON. DAMASCUS BARRELS WITH RAMROD. GOOD COLOURED ACTION WITH SOME SCROLL ENGRAVING. LARGE TRIGGER GUARD ENGRAVED WITH DOGS. PINEAPPLE FINIALS. STOCK REPAIRED. OVERALL GOOD CLEAN FIREABLE CONDITION.
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns-black-powder/reilly/percussion/12-gauge/170610144659005



Discussion: Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street would indicated it were made between April 1847 and Oct 1859 when the name of the company formally changed to E.M. Reilly & Co. It is neither part of the JC "7000" series nor the main-line Reilly series. However, the label is one used between late 1855/1856 and Jan 1859 (with the medals from the 1851 and 1855 world fairs). In spite of the odd number, I feel Reilly made the gun.

Edit: 3514 is very close to this gun in lines..12920. 12920 has a similar label but with EM Reilly and the building sketch. Thus I'm inching towards believing there should be a "1" in front of this number 13514, and the case is either older than the gun or an old label was used.



=========================================================
10021 - SN would place it 1856; However it has to be post 1865
- a remanufactured Enfield with a Snider breech added?


Advertisement:
https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogu...seur-collector/
A .577" Volunteer Snider 3 band rifle by Reilly, 55" overall, barrel 36½" with London proofs and Enfield inspector's mark, the breech block having "Snider Patent" mark; lock bearing crowned "VR" and "1865" over "L.A. Co" and engraved "E.M. Reilly & Co, New Oxford St, London"; walnut fullstock with brass mounts, trigger guard with eyelet securing chain and nipple protector, and numbered 10,021; with single sling swivel, original steel ramrod, muzzle plug, German silver rearsight cover stamped "Snider", and with registration mark, and triangular socket bayonet (no scabbard),


Discussion: Clearly a military rifle retailed by Reilly and proofed by Enfield. It has to be post 1865 (Snider patent). Thus is cannot have a Reilly 10000 SN which would have had it being made about 1856 if it were originally made as a Snider. I could believe 15021 - 1868. But unfortunately the SN is not pictured so it remains unclear. The brass trigger housing though is similar to other Reilly-made and serial numbered Enfields and Sniders and the stock neck seems slimmer than a normal Enfield/Snider. Reilly sold wholesale rifles to the Yoemanry militia and rifle clubs; usually these "volunteer" rifles were not made by him, only ordered and retailed. It could be that it was originally an 1856 Muzzle-Loading Enfield, remanufactured with the Snider breech - However, in such a case the name on the barrel would have been "Reilly," not "E.M. Reilly & Co."

=========================================================
4573 - Address dates it to between Aug 1835 and Mar 1847 - Note the bore size stamp...


Advertisement:
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/76/400/engraved-jc-reilly-percussion-sporting-gun
The smoothbore barrel gauges just over 6 bore at the muzzle (.93) and has a post front sight, "J.C. REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON" on top at the breech, and London proofs, "7" and "4573" on the bottom. The breech, locks, and furniture all have classic scroll patterns and engraved line borders. The serial number on the lower tang is faint. The stock is checkered at the wrist and has a flat buttplate. The address on the barrel indicates the gun was manufactured approximately 1835-1847 based on Joseph Charles Reilly's move dates. .. 6 bore guns were used for hunting elephants and other big and dangerous game in Africa and India in the 19th century.



Discussion:
Terry Buffum thought this J.C. Reilly so unusual that he bought it...going down the Reilly rabbit-hole again! The SN doesn't fit known patterns but the address would date in between 1835-47 per above. Once he receives it, he'll photograph it and analyze it and I'll post more, In the meantime, it's a familiar shape and size...just an unfamiliar number. The ad writer at least got the Reilly dates at High Holborn right...a first..showing he's glanced at this line - though the fact there are other errors in the ad show he didn't read it all very carefully - wonder if the ad writer is related to one of our posters? I think J.C. was more "flexible" on his numbering system than his son E.M.

=========================================================
9137. - not a Reilly SN


Advertisement:
http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Odd%20Fel...2040%20Cal..htm
NeedlefireTarget Rifle E.M. Reilly 40 Cal.
E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 Oxford St. London


Discussion: Reilly sold a lot of these rook rifles with his name on them. But so did others - identical guns. This is the only one I can find with a SN. It has E.M Reilly & Co...on the barrel which normally would indicate it was post Oct 1859. However the SN, if it were a Reilly, would date it to 1851, an impossibility. So Reilly likely retailed this rifle - he did not make it.

I==============================

I'll add this comment: A couple of "3000" numbers above look to be missing a "1" in front of the number. I've found anotherr Reilly in the 2000 series with a "1" almost illegible on the back of the number. Perhaps "1"'s were subject to wear...or perhaps they just weren't put on certain guns.

Also, especially in from the mid-1870's-1890 thereabouts Reilly "3"'s and "5"'s could be very difficult to distinguish. Terry Buffum noted this; some of his guns that he thought had a "5" actually had a "3" when brought to auction, etc. Earlier number engraving on the tang seemed to vary more.

Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/25/19 09:14 AM

So still no factory ever found ?
Posted by: SKB

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 05/25/19 09:47 AM

Originally Posted By: [censored
]So still no factory ever found ?


So you still can not read?
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 06/26/19 08:51 PM

I'm continuing to add trivia to this line and believe that some very knowledgeable SxS experts are now coming around to understanding that Reilly did indeed build guns...a lot of them...33,000 SN'd guns and by 1880 over 1000 a year...3 a day...not counting what they built for others.

Here's a page from the 1864 Williams' Manufacturing Directory.
-- Reilly is listed as a "Gun, Pistol and Rifle Manufacturer." (no mention of Reilly as a "retailer.")


-- Interestingly he's also listed under "Swords, Cutlers and Manufacturers."





I'm wondering if "Reeves" worked for Reilly directly. Will be researching this.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/02/19 03:08 PM

===========================================================
5512 ?
. it is always JC throwing the monkey wrench into the works
(actually the term "sabotage" came from Belgians throwing their wooden shoes (sabots) into machinery which was taking their jobs)

And the more you think you know....the harder the fall. Above is mention of Reilly SN's that just don't fit the chronology. Here is another one - at least the seller read this line.

SN 5512. (on the barrels and the splinter forearm
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/820030447
Rare British double barrel 12g shotgun made by J.C. Reilly. He was silver smith before he started making guns. He made guns for royalty of Europe and Asia. This one has serial number on it(all matching) which means that he personally made and hand engraved this gun. There is a good history write up about this maker and I will post a link of it. Gun is in very good shape, it is Damascus barrels. Spring is very tight and everything works on it. I tried to take a lot of pictures of it to show everything. Great shotgun which was personally made by the starter of the company. I will let pictures tell the story. history of the company: Doublegunshop web site under Reilly history It is antique and it will be shipped to your door.

What's interesting is the address on the rib: Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn now 502 Oxford Street. The gun had to be numbered around the time of the move from High Holborn to Oxford Street....late March 1847. I will ask the seller if there are any other marks on it.





Address on Barrels:


SN on Splinter forearm


SN on barrels


Reilly didn't do a lot of non floral engraving....this is interesting, David Trevalion said the London engravers always messed up wildlife - they'd never seen real animals in the flesh:


This inscription matches well with this label and with advertisements that continued for a year after the move....JC had a hard tine letting go of High Holborn.



This ad from 09 Nov 1847 "London Post" 8 months after the move shows how wedded he was to the High Holborn address.


This is the current chronology from p.22....at some point I'll move it.
1846: ..3121 - .3360. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
..3329 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London, 10 ga/.58 cal. Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun. Muzzle loader

1847: ..3361 - .3400. + 7000 - 7070. + 8400 - 8500 - . . . . .240. .*3,*4,*5,*6
..3392 -Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holburn, London. 10 ga/.58 cal; Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, Muzzle loader. (Last SN at High Holborn).
..7023 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 11bore. Shotgun SxS. Muzzle Loader, hammer gun. (1st JC 7000 series but with Holborn still on the rib)
..5512 (outlier) - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn now 502 Oxford Street; 12 bore SxS Shotgun. Hammergun, Muzzle loader.
..8463 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London (“label-J.C. Reilly, removed from Holborn"); .390 cal. Rifle; Enfield percussion, double express, muzzle loader. (First New Oxford 8400 series)
..84xx - Reilly, 502 Oxford Street, London; 6 Bore; Shotgun, single barrel, hammer gun, muzzle loader.

1848: ..8501 - .8680. + 7071 - 7170. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
..8578 - J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London (label - “removed from Holborn”); 10 bore; Shotgun SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader

1849: ..8681 - .8860. + 7171 - 7270. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
..7201 - Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal; Rifle, Single barrel, hammer gun, Muzzle loader. (label - "Removed from Holborn")
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/03/19 11:55 AM

================================================================
11716 - Validation of Chronology

This gun just appeared on Guns International. Reilly SN 11716 - .577 Enfield Rifle Presented as a prize Christmas 1860. The chronology date chart would have had it numbered in November-December 1860 - believe this is another "validation of method" marker.

This from p.22:
1860: 11341 - 11770. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430
11419 - Reilly, (Address not clear) Oxford; .577 cal Rifle; Enfield, 2 band, hammer gun, muzzle loader,
11645 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 100 bore; Rifle. Prince patent, single barrel, breech loader,
11651 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford St., London. .577 cal; Enfield type, hammer gun, muzzle loader converted to Snider breech loader.
11xxx - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street London (Reilly on case); 11mm. 4 smooth barrel, hammer gun, muzzle loader
11716 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; .577 Enfield rifle. Muzzle loader, volunteer rifles. Presented as a prize Christmas 1860

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101246940
Description:
This antique presentation model of the Model 1853 rifled musket / target rifle made in London, England is absolutely beautiful. The rifle was made by E.M. Reilly & Co., which according the barrel address was located on New Oxford Street in London. This beauty was given out as a 2nd place prize most in an 1860 military shooting competition. The buttstock has a round sterling silver plague inlaid into the right side which is engraved "14 Devonshire VR - Dec.1860 - 2nd Prize". Just ahead of the rear sight is the main presentation inscription in an acid-etched section: "Second Prize Rifle - Presented to the 14th Devon V.R. Christmas 1860 - By The Hon C. Denman MP". From what we have learned so far, the "V.R." in 14th Devonshire V.R. stands for either Volunteer Rifles or Volunteer Reserves, either way it was part of the British Empire Military......... (etc. - see link)


Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/04/19 12:17 AM

If JC Reilly wasn't making guns, he sure pulled the wool over the London directory authors like Pigot.

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/12/19 09:11 PM

Another 19th century British books on UK manufacturers, this one from 1870. Reilly is listed as a "gun, rifle and pistol manufacturer"....no mention of his being a "retailer." Perhaps the compilers were fooled?

1870 Handbook to the Manufacturers and Exporters of Great Britain.
https://books.google.com/books?id=Z_INAA...ers&f=false

Posted by: wootang

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/14/19 05:20 PM

Hi everyone, i'm new to this forum and based in the UK. I have just found this brilliant thread and am most impressed with the efforts gone in to creating this authoritative database, well done!
I own, and shoot, a J C Reilly which might be of interest. It is a 14b percussion double gun of fine quality, the barrels have marks for London proof and are stamped 14, suggesting post 1855. The external faces of the locks are signed just "Reilly". The top rib is signed "Joseph Charles Reilly New Oxford Street London" with no street number, but assume 502 (1848-1860) which would tie in nicely with the proof marks.
Here's where it gets interesting, it's serial number is marked extensively to locks, barrels, breech plugs, ironwork and wood. But the number is "2008" suggesting a much earlier gun. I tend to think 1855-1860 is more likely the manufacture date, but would appreciate your views as to it's number and date.
I can take some pics, but do not have a web site to post them here, perhaps i can PM them to a member and they could post on my behalf?
Look forward to your thoughts...
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/14/19 07:14 PM

Hello wootang and welcome!! I would gladly post photos for you. I'll send you an e-mail via PM. Alternatively, you can go to a commercial web photo hosting site where for free they will convert your photos for posting....I use jpgbox.com. I think yours is an important gun and would like to have a record of it.

I'm having all sort of recent problems with J.C.'s numbering system from about March 1847 when they moved to 502 New Oxford Street to the time he retired September 1857.
-- There is the "7000" series which includes 7 extant JC guns from 7023 (while still at High Holborn) to 8052 (obviously one of the very last guns he made).
-- Then there are the "outliers":
.....-- 5512 from I believe 1847
.....-- 3514 from I believe 1856 time period based on the case label.
.....-- 2008 - And now your gun

.....-- Terry Buffum bought a JC Reilly, High Holborn 6 bore single barrel in May that we thought had a serial number 4073. It turned out, when he got hold of it and examined it under deep magnification to be 1x73 with the x being a number with a bottom curve - 3, 5 or 8. Assuming it were a 5 or 8 it would be right around 1839-41 and thus in sequence. (see post above).

Based on the address 2008 had to have been made by J.C. during the time period 23 March 1847 to September 1857. Perhaps with pictures we can work on a more precise date. Does it have an original case? Is there a label in the case?

I would be interested in why, if stamped "14" it would be post 1855? This is new to me and potentially very interesting. Gene Williams

Any address with "New Oxford" will refer to 502, renumbered 16 in November 1881...March 1847 to June 1898. 315 (later 277) Oxford street sometimes just "Oxford Street" opened in January 1859 and continued to be used until closed in 1904.
Posted by: wootang

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/15/19 05:50 AM

Thankyou Argo, success with the pictures.
Unfortunately no case with the gun, so no label.
Definately only 2008 as the serial number.
30" twist barrels which have been refinished at some time. The top rib signing is faint but does states address as previous post.
The London and Birmingham proof houses were only stamping the bore size, in addition to the proof marks, from 1855, hence my supposition that the gun would be post 1855. Marks and dates Chart below.
The gun has an interesting trigger guard, which i have never seen on an English gun.



















Hopefully the question of date can be resolved! I'm sure i once read somewhere that Joseph Charles perhaps kept back some numbers for later use, which might explain? My only other thought is the gun may have been rebarreled in the 1850's, keeping the original early number but displaying the address at the time of the rebarreling? But hard to imagine the original barrels could be worn out in such a short time, unless of course a major barrel burst?
Cheers
Posted by: wootang

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/15/19 07:32 AM

Just to amplify on the proof marks as it is an important dating point. The marking of the barrels with the bore size, was a requirement introduced by the English 1855 Gun Barrel Proof Act and applied to both London and Birmingham proof houses. Prior to this date, i believe there was no requirement to do so, however maybe some makers did as there will always be exceptions to the rule?
The proof house chart in the post above was extracted from Diggory hadoke's book "Vintage guns for the modern shot" with grateful aknowledgement.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/15/19 08:46 PM

Interesting woo. The 1855 mandated bore stamps would indeed be a date marker. I went back and looked through my database which has 20 Reilly (Joseph Charles Reilly, J.C. Reilly and Reilly) extant long guns which I've dated 1825 to 1855. Unfortunately there's not one picture in the lot of barrel markings - once more Auction house going for esthetics and missing the crux of the guns. I'll start looking further.

However, with this stamp then 2008 surely dates between 1855 and the institution of the bore size stamp and September 1857 when J.C. Reilly publicly announced his retirement.

Looking at your pictures above, especially the pineapple finials (which probably were common motifs at the tine), I'd say your gun most resembles these two Reilly's:

=========================================================
7869
. (I dated it 1855...part of the JC Reilly "7000" series)
(SXS 40 now owns this gun...I'll ask him to take a look at the proof marks to see if there is a bore mark.)
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/114/270.php
serial #7869, 12 ga, 31" damascus barrels with very good lightly pitted bores. The barrels display a beautiful damascus pattern with light pinprick pitting around the breech area. The top rib is marked "J.C. REILLY. NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON." The locks show a mottled brown patina which are nicely engraved in foliate scroll with geometric borders. The hammers show a nice scroll engraving and appear to have been lightly polished; the right hammer guard has a small chip. The engraved guard with pineapple finial front extension shows a dull gray patina. The checkered walnut pistolgrip buttstock and forend rate very good with scattered dings and scratches with a wood repair on top of the comb. The gun functions well mechanically and included is a ramrod. (177147-155) {ANTIQUE} (1000/1500) SOLD FOR $0.00SOLD FOR $431.25



=========================================================
3514
- label indicates post September 1855-1859 - not a JC but close
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns-black-powder/reilly/percussion/12-gauge/170610144659005
C1850 - CASED IN ORIGINAL MAHOGANY CASE WITH REILLY TRADE LABEL.BARRELS MARKED 13 BORE. RIB ENGRAVED WITH REILLY, 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON. DAMASCUS BARRELS WITH RAMROD. GOOD COLOURED ACTION WITH SOME SCROLL ENGRAVING. LARGE TRIGGER GUARD ENGRAVED WITH DOGS. PINEAPPLE FINIALS. STOCK REPAIRED. OVERALL GOOD CLEAN FIREABLE CONDITION.





Pineapple motif from the 4-barrel pictured above:


I've temporarily put your 2008 into the year 1856 in the p.22 chart of extant guns...based on the above two guns.

1855: ..9761 - .9940. + 7771 - 7870. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
..7801 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 28 bore; Walking cane gun.
..7802 - J.C. Reilly, New Oxford St., London; 6 bore, Single Barrel, muzzle loader, Hammer Wildfowl gun
..7869 - J.C. Reilly, New Oxford St. London; 12 ga; Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader (Buffum)(SXS40).

1856: ..9941- 10220. + 7870 - 7970. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 380. . . . .**1. Overdone by orders after Paris
..3514 outlier - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 13bore. Shotgun SxS; Muzzle loader, hammer gun (1855-59 case label)
..2008 outlier - Joseph Charles Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. 14 bore. Shotgun SxS; Muzzle loader hammer gun. 14 bore stamp.

1857: 10221 - 10530. + 7971 - 8060. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400. .*7
..8025 - Reilly, New Oxford St. London; 13 bore, Rifle; hammer gun, Muzzle loader (Buffum). (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici)
..8052 - Reilly, New Oxford St., London. 20 bore. Rifle. Hammer gun, muzzle loader. (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici) (Last JC made gun)
10315 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 6bore. Shotgun; Single barrel, hammer gun, muzzle loader.
10354 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; .400 cal. Rifle; SxS double breech loader. (Extensive conversion 1895-1904 by John Fry-added new receiver, underlever, hammers, stock.)
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/15/19 10:26 PM

Your trigger guard appears on this E.M. Reilly & Co., London 4 bore single barrel, Birmingham Proof...Which I don't think Reilly made..only retailed (no SN): I have a difficult time dating this gun because EM put his name on non-serial numbered guns in the 1850's before the company formally changed its name to "EM Reilly & Co" in October 1859.

I'll have to research UK corporation data from the 1850's....several authors claim the Reilly's had two or three different companies operating out of the same premises using the same labels and the same advertisements at the same time. (Of course...there's NO indication that this was based on primary source research). - - - except that Reilly exhibited at the 1851 Crystal Palace International exhibition as "E.M. Reilly" and at the 1855 Paris Internationale also as "E.M. Reilly.")
-- (But I feel the Reilly's JC and EM were compulsive control freaks and supervised even the guns they sold on retail).
-- (I've never figured out why there are two triggers...might one be a hair trigger set?)





And another - no SN mentioned:
================================================================
Post October 1859 ??

http://www.mendipauctionrooms.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Sporting-Sale-Catalogue-Dec.pdf
150. E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London 13 Bore double barreled shotgun, Damascus Barrels, believed to be original finish. £1000-1500

Posted by: wootang

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/16/19 08:50 AM

Hi Argo,
7869 certainly looks a similar gun to my 2008. It will be interesting to see the barrel proof marks.
3514 has similar looking standing breech and fences to 2008. The large trigger guard looks earlier than 1850's? but may have been ordered that way of course (big fingers/ gloves?). Is the case original to the gun?
If only more early guns would surface for comparison, it would then rule out the nagging thought in my head that 2008 was rebarreled and it was is infact an earlier gun than its current barrels would suggest. Until then, i agree that the date of 1856 has got to be right and have to accept that J C R guns sometimes had an irregular numbering system.
I will place a post on the MLAGB (Muzzle loaders association of Great Britain) forum to see if any members have early guns and would like to share the info for your database.
Wootang
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/16/19 10:56 AM

For the record, here are photos of the 20 or so earliest Reilly long guns:

=========================================================
162
I dated it 1828 - see caveats


https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=10247&aid=86974&lid=22392051

A 14-BORE PERCUSSION SINGLE-BARRELLED SPORTING-GUN, serial no 162, circa 1835, with re-browned twist-iron triple-stage 32in. barrel with carved bands at the intersection, the top-flat signed in gothic script 'J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS LONDON', bead fore-sight, platinum line with a pheasant engraved at breech, platinum vented plug, scroll engraved top-tang, borderline and acanthus scroll engraved bar-action lock signed in script 'REILLY', highly figured walnut half-stock chequered at the wrist, iron heel-plate, the long top-spur engraved with acanthus scrolls inhabited with a pheasant, border and scroll engraved trigger-guard bow, moulded iron fore-end cap with integral ramrod throat, plain iron thimbles and brass-tipped ebony ramrod 300-400



=========================================================
1174
. I dated this 1836

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...2&saletype=

J. C. REILLY - AN 8-BORE PERCUSSION SINGLE-BARRELLED FOWLING PIECE, serial no. 1174,
circa 1850, with shortened 27 1/2in. barrel, short sighting rib to breech, scroll engraved top-tang, patent breech with platinum vent, borderline and scroll engraved lock signed 'J.C. REILLY' (hammer replaced), chequered walnut pistol-grip half-stock, iron furniture, silver oval escutcheon to bottom of pistol-grip, horn fore-end cap and original (shortened) ramrod (some surface pitting to iron parts)



========================================================
3329
. I dated it 1846
London, 1837-47
Serial no. 3329, 10 gauge/.58 caliber. 30 inch brown twist barrels, the concave rib signed Joseph Charles Reilly 316 High Holburn London; single standing/single folding rear sight; breech end of rib inlaid with two platinum bands. London proofs. Patent breech. Scroll-engraved tang and back action locks, the latter signed Reilly. Engraved steel furniture. Figured walnut half-stock with vacant silver wrist escutcheon. Sling swivels. Brass-tipped ramrod. Together with green baize-lined oak case. Accessories including cleaning rod, basketweave pattern powder flask, two powder measures, oiler, nipple wrench, main spring vise and leather strap.
Condition: Very good. Barrels retain much period re-browned finish. Locks with traces of later casehardening. Sharp markings throughout. Stock with light marks. Case lid with scattered marks and missing escutcheon. Interior with old relining. Accessories good to very good.



=========================================================
3xxx ?
No SN, No date but pre-1847
https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/J-C-REILLY-LONDON/22392046/LotDetail.asp?lid=22392046
A 10-BORE PERCUSSION DOUBLE-BARRELLED WILDFOWLING-GUN, no visible serial number, circa 1845, with twist-iron 36in. re-browned barrels, the top-rib signed 'J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON', bead fore-sight, scroll engraved rib-end at breech, scroll engraved 'plugs', engraved top-tang, borderline and scroll engraved bar-action locks signed 'REILLY', scroll engraved dolphin-headed hammers, walnut half-stock chequered at the wrist, iron furniture (heel-plate corroded) and brass mounted mahogany ramrod 800-1,200
Fine Modern & Antique Guns - December 2014
Sold for: £800.00



=========================================================
xxxx ?
Pre 1847 - No SN
http://www.bruun-rasmussen.dk/search.do?iid=300721740&cid=513&mode=detail
Name: JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBORN, LONDON
Description: Classical English double barreled hunting gun, c 1840; English iron mounted half stocked double barreled hunting gun c. 1840 by Joseph Charles Reilly with butt cap, trigger guard, and locks finely engraved with English scroll, c. 71 cm. long barrels in calibre c. 16,5 cm. marked on the strap JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON.





=========================================================
4573
.
(x= 3,5,8,0). 1837 if "3", 1839 if "5", 1840 if "8"

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/76/400/engraved-jc-reilly-percussion-sporting-gun
"The smoothbore barrel gauges just over 6 bore at the muzzle (.93) and has a post front sight, "J.C. REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON" on top at the breech, and London proofs, "7" and "4573" on the bottom. The breech, locks, and furniture all have classic scroll patterns and engraved line borders. The serial number on the lower tang is faint. The stock is checkered at the wrist and has a flat buttplate. The address on the barrel indicates the gun was manufactured approximately 1835-1847 based on Joseph Charles Reilly's move dates. He entered the gun trade in 1835. It is not clear if he manufactured guns himself or contracted them out, but his son and successor, Edward M. Reilly is known to have been an air gun innovator. 6 bore guns were used for hunting elephants and other big and dangerous game in Africa and India in the 19th century."



=========================================================
5512[/b]. [b]Outlier discussed above...Certainly 1847

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/820030447
Rare British double barrel 12g shotgun made by J.C. Reilly. He was silver smith before he started making guns. He made guns for royalty of Europe and Asia. This one has serial number on it(all matching) which means that he personally made and hand engraved this gun. There is a good history write up about this maker and I will post a link of it. Gun is in very good shape, it is Damascus barrels. Spring is very tight and everything works on it.



=========================================================
7023 First JC "7000" series, still at High Holborn - early 1847?

https://issuu.com/holtsauctioneers/docs/holt_s_9th_march_2005
151. AN 11 BORE DOUBLE BARRELED PERCUSSION SPORTING GUN
by J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London, Serial no. 7023, with 35 1/2" re-browned twist barrels signed in full on the broad rib; silver fore-sight, breeches engraved with scrollwork, scroll engraved tang; signed locks and mounts; figured walnut half-stock with checkered grip and brass mounted ramrod; (iron parts heavily discolored; stock with some minor defects). London proof marks. £300-500

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/16/19 11:29 AM

Early Reilly Muzzle Loaders continued:


=========================================================
7201. - 1849, second of the "7000" series,

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...20-a61700c0a9c0
Name: Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. Removed from Holborn
Description: A mid 19th Century single barrel percussion action gun, by Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London, numbered 7201, the muzzle loading barrel holding brass mounted ebony ramrod under, signed to top and lockplate, engraved steel mounts with feather scrolls to walnut butt and stock, in original mahogany fitted case with maker's label to inner lid; two Sykes patent shot flasks, one with embossed leather bag; one Reilly shot tin; and other fittings. Hammer Price: £700.00 .



=========================================================
7802 - Reilly 7000 series - I dated it 1855

http://промкаталог.рф/PublicDocuments/0523722.pdf

371.
A 6-BORE PERCUSSION WILDFOWLING GUN by J.C. Reilly, New Oxford St. London, serial no. 7802, circa 1850, with 42in. tapering twist sighted barrel signed in full at the breech, scroll engraved breech and signed lock (cock replaced), figured walnuthalf-stockwith chequeredgrip (butt pierced and filled, probably from use in a punt), horn fore-end cap, scroll engraved iron mounts, white metal escutcheon, and original brass-mounted ramrod, London proof marks.
See illustration page 109
£600-800



=========================================================
7869 - Mentioned above, "7000" series - I dated it to 1855

http://www.amoskeagauction.com/114/270.php
serial #7869, 12 ga, 31" damascus barrels with very good lightly pitted bores. The barrels display a beautiful damascus pattern with light pinprick pitting around the breech area. The top rib is marked "J.C. REILLY. NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON." The locks show a mottled brown patina which are nicely engraved in foliate scroll with geometric borders. The hammers show a nice scroll engraving and appear to have been lightly polished; the right hammer guard has a small chip. The engraved guard with pineapple finial front extension shows a dull gray patina. The checkered walnut pistolgrip buttstock and forend rate very good with scattered dings and scratches with a wood repair on top of the comb. The gun functions well mechanically and included is a ramrod. (177147-155) {ANTIQUE} (1000/1500) SOLD FOR $431.25



=========================================================
8025 - 7000 series - dated to 1857 - one of the last JC's

Reilly, New Oxford St. London; 13 bore; Rifle; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader (Buffum). (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici)
a percussion rifle (single barrel) I still have with a skull and cross bones and "Veni, Vedi, Vici" engraved. Bore is just over .700, so perhaps 13 bore. Two groove, so made for those "waisted bullets". A ball with a "belly band" and a short pointed bullet with two rectangular "bumps" are in the patch box which is engraved with what I think is a red deer. Fixed leaf marked 100. Flip up rear sight leaves for 150, 200, 250 and 300.





=========================================================
84xx
- Mainline serial number series - 1847

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=42593

6 Bore; very good bore, fair stock, 26.25'' barrel, Manufactured in England circa 1840s. Barrel shortened long ago, commonly done for use with round ball against large game somewhere in the empire. Original browned finish barrel, casehardened lock, mounted in a walnut stock with double wedged forend and checkered wrist. Fine scroll leaf engraving on the lockplate and stock mounts. Engraved on the side of the lockplate "REILLY.LONDON". The top of the barrel is marked "REILLY. 502 OXFORD STREET, LONDON". Ramrod is a later replacement. The stock has an old crack on the right running from the back of the lockplate into the checkering on the wrist, and another crack which appears to have been glued long ago on left side, running from the center of the trigger guard plate up to the rear of the upper tang. The lock functions fine. Antique, s/n 84xx



=========================================================
8463
- Mainline Reilly SN - 1847


http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-1361-e-m...nal-case-40673/

E. M. REILLY PERCUSSION DOUBLE EXPRESS RIFLE WITH ORIGINAL CASE. SN 8463. Cal. .390 Groove diameter. 5-Groove Enfield type rifling. Approximately 1 turn in 50″. Unusual 24″ stepped octagonal barrels have extremely heavy breeches. “Reilly, New Oxford Street. London.” is engraved on narrow sunken top rib. Rear express sight is mounted on island base, has one standing, two folding leaves, plus an additional long ladder blade with very fine U-notches for precision shooting. German silver front blade is inset in raised front boss. Bottoms of bbls have London proofs and SN. Hickory ramrod has brass tip and tail, and is held by one long plain pipe mounted with sling eye. There is a retaining boss at front end of bbls which engages groove in ramrod tip. Barrels are made of unusual broad patterned skelp twist. Case hardened patent breeches have SNs on hooks, and vented platinum “blow-outs”. What appear to be original, square shouldered nipples are deeply set into fences. Breech iron is engraved with very nicely cut open scroll. Front action locks with high rounded serpentine hammers, are separated from bbls in Westley Richards fashion. Locks are engraved with more open scroll, as are hammers, which terminate in stylized dolphins heads. Lockplates are also engraved “Reilly London” and have vignettes of game; a recumbent stag on left, and running stag on right. There are silver flash guards between breech iron and lockplates. Scroll engraved trigger plate has circular finial. Trigger guard bow is engraved with another running stag. SN is on grip. Dense, slightly marbled and figured European walnut full pistol grip buttstock measures 14″ over steel, long tang, scroll engraved buttplate. Patchbox with spring-loaded circular cover is on right side of stock. Cover depicts a stag approaching through moors. Stock features large shadow line right hand cheekpiece, engraved steel grip cap, 18 LPI checkering with mullered borders, and vacant gold oval, as well as sling button, on toe line. Forestock attaches to bbl with side nail through oval steel escutcheons. Drop at heel: 2″, drop at comb: 1-5/8″. Weight: 11 lbs. 6 oz, LOP 14″. Makers oak case with inlet brass corners, is lined in deep burgundy velvet, with small Reilly paper label. Accessories include newly made leather sling, with old snap swivel, original key, as well as a copper-bodied brass top flask engraved “Reilly no. 8463”, which throws a very large charge of powder. This unusual and high quality rifle was made during an era of great experimentation with many different attempts at producing long range rifles. This particular rifle probably used a very long, for the caliber, bullet, with large powder charge, and was probably extremely effective. It would be lots of fun to see how it performs today. CONDITION: Very fine. Bbls retain 80% original brown, thinning on high edges, with some areas of dark discoloration from cleaned oxidation. Bores are excellent and bright with some minor pitting toward muzzles. Breech iron, locks, and hammers show a considerable amount of their original case color, and evidence of some cleaning. Stock retains most of its original French polish with a number of knocks, marks, and dings, as well as some lifting. Trigger guard and buttplate have most of their original blue, but silvering and flaking. Quarter size area at heel on buttplate shows heavy oxidation, and needs further cleaning. Patchbox has been cleaned to silver, with many dark areas. Locks are crisp. Exterior of case appears to be re-finished, with some cracks on bottom, glued. Interior cloth is very good, showing many areas of discoloration from contact with gun. Label is dark with large area illegible. Partitions are tight. Flask is good. 4-40673 MGM110 (5,000-7,000)



=========================================================
8578
- Mainline SN but a JC Reilly gun. 1848


http://www.probusauktioner.se/auktion/au...November%202014

A CASED DOUBLE BARREL PERCUSSION SPORTING GUN
ca 1850, lock signed Reilly (Joseph Charles R. London), lock and steel mounts with engraved decorations, triggerguard with no 8578, twist barrels with London proof marks, signed on the rib JC Reilly, 502 New Oxford street London, 114 cm, case with label and powder flask; wedge missing, rust

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/16/19 02:16 PM

Here is the current chronology of extant guns 1825-1856 (from p.22 - see caveats). If It can be established that older Reilly's did not have a bore stamp, I'll create an 1855 marker. I've asked SxS 40 to look at his 7863 and Terry Buffum to examiners his 1x73.

Year. . . . . . . . . . . .Serial Numbers. . . . . . . . . .yearly production
. . . Black-Main Chronology; Blue - JC “7000” series. . . . . .*Marker footnotes. **Sanity checks
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Various known patents on SN'd extant guns

1825: . . . 01 - . . 20. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .20. .*1
1826: . . . 21 - . . 50. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .30
1827: . . . 51 - . .110 - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60

1828: . . 111 - . .200 - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 90
….162 - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. 14 bore. Shotgun; percussion, single-barreled muzzle-loader
….176 - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. .50cal. Pistols; Pair of percussion dueling pistols (Buffum)

1829: . . 201 - . .300. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .100
...254 - J.C. Reilly? (no address mentioned). Percussion pistol per Terry Weiland article.

1830: . . 301 - . .400. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .100
1831: . . 401 - . .510. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .110
1832: . . 511 - . .640. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .130
1833: . . 641 - . .870. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .130

1834: . . 871 - .1000. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 130
..xxxx - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. 14bore. Sporting gun. Single barrel, muzzle loader. "highly figured stock" (Picture)
..xxxx - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. .45 Cal. Pistol, 14cm long muzzle loading, steel barrel, percussion pocket

1835: ..1001 - .1130. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 130. .*2
..xxxx - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 50cal. Pistol; Percussion single-steel barrel muzzle loader
..1024 - Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 8.5mm. Pistol; hammer gun, steel barrel, pocket pistol (1st SN's gun with High Holborn on the rib)

1836: ..1131 - .1280. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150
..1174 - J.C. Reilly (no address). 8 bore. Fowling piece; Percussion single shot, single barrel, muzzle loader.

1837: ..1281 - .1430. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150
..1292 - Reilly, London, 120 bore, Pistol; steel barrel, percussion miniature pocket pistol. (Last numbered pistol)

1838: ..1431 - .1500. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 170
1839: ..1501 - .1700. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200
..1x73 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London; 6 bore Single barrel. Hammer gun, muzzle loader (Buffum) (x is unclear =3,5 or 8)

1840: ..1701 - .1920. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 220
..1869 - (unknown) 10 ga. Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader (Buffum)

1841: ..1921 - .2160. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
1842: ..2161 - .2400. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
1843: ..2401 - .2640. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
1844: ..2641 - .2880. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240

1845: ..2881 - .3120. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
..xxxx - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 10 bore. Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, Muzzle loader "highly figured stock" (pic available)
..xxxx - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 10 bore? Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, Muzzle loader.

1846: ..3121 - .3360. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
..3329 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London, 10 ga/.58 cal. Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun. Muzzle loader

1847: ..3361 - .3400. + 7000 - 7070. + 8400 - 8500 - . . . . .240. .*3,*4,*5,*6
..3392 -Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holburn, London. 10 ga/.58 cal; Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, Muzzle loader. (Last SN at High Holborn).
..7023 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 11bore. Shotgun SxS. Muzzle Loader, hammer gun. (1st JC 7000 series but with Holborn still on the rib)
..5512 (outlier) - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn now 502 Oxford Street; 12 bore SxS Shotgun. Hammergun, Muzzle loader.
..8463 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London (“label-J.C. Reilly, removed from Holborn"); .390 cal. Rifle; Enfield percussion, double express, muzzle loader. (First New Oxford 8400 series)
..84xx - Reilly, 502 Oxford Street, London; 6 Bore; Shotgun, single barrel, hammer gun, muzzle loader.

1848: ..8501 - .8680. + 7071 - 7170. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
..8578 - J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London (label - “removed from Holborn”); 10 bore; Shotgun SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader

1849: ..8681 - .8860. + 7171 - 7270. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
..7201 - Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal; Rifle, Single barrel, hammer gun, Muzzle loader. (label - "Removed from Holborn")

1850: ..8861 - .9040. + 7271 - 7370. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
1851: ..9041 - .9220. + 7371 - 7470. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
1852: ..9221 - .9400. + 7471 - 7570. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
1853: ..9401 - .9580. + 7571 - 7670. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
1854: ..9581 - .9760. + 7671 - 7770. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280

1855: ..9761 - .9940. + 7771 - 7870. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
..7801 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 28 bore; Walking cane gun.
..7802 - J.C. Reilly, New Oxford St., London; 6 bore, Single Barrel, muzzle loader, Hammer Wildfowl gun
..7869 - J.C. Reilly, New Oxford St. London; 12 ga; Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader (Buffum)(SXS40).

1856: ..9941- 10220. + 7870 - 7970. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 380. . . . .**1. Overdone by orders after Paris
..3514 outlier - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 13bore. Shotgun SxS; Muzzle loader, hammer gun (1855-59 case label)
..2008 outlier - Joseph Charles Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. 14 bore. Shotgun SxS; Muzzle loader hammer gun. 14 bore stamp.
Posted by: SXS 40

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/16/19 09:09 PM


Hi Gene, here is a photo of the bottom of the barrels and top rib for Ser. No. 7863

where is the closest petrol station to me
Posted by: Stan

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/16/19 09:17 PM

Very pretty, SXS 40. About 1847?

Any other pics of it?

SRH
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/16/19 09:54 PM

Thanks Harry. The SN is 7869...not 7863. I've dated this SN as very late 1855 - see chart above.

Now here's the question. There definitely is a bore stamp on the barrels. This would seem to confirm the 1855 date when bore stamps were required and would definitely be another "proof of method" for the date chronology. But....what if Reilly were stamping bore sizes forever?

Terry is having a hard time wrestling the barrel off his 1x73 6 bore. If any other Reilly owners with pre 1855 guns can look at the proof marks, it'll tell us if Reilly were one of the makers stamping his guns' bore size before the government mandated it. (Since the auction houses were advertising bore size for the above listed pre 1855 Reilly's, I would be inclined to believe Reilly stamped these before the law required it...but would like to see pictures... I pretty much don't trust what the auction houses advertise without pics - I've seen them butcher serial numbers, names and address on ribs).

I'm going to e-mail the owner of 5512 outlier, the gun advertised on guns international posted above which is clearly 1847-48 and ask for photos of his barrel proof marks. (edit: You Reilly guys need to take a look at that gun!!)

Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/16/19 10:34 PM

Just realized 5512 barrel proofs are posted. The gun is definitely 1847-48. No bore marks. Looks like proof of method....i.e. the chart dated 7869 to Dec 1855 - it has bore size proofs. A gun 5512 from 8 years before has no bore stamp?? Need validation however.

Posted by: wootang

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/17/19 06:29 AM

Re bore size marks on 5512. Are we certain it is a 12bore gun? There looks like a feint 10 or 16 between the visual and definitive stamps on each barrel to me?
No doubt that 7869 was proofed at 13b though!
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/19/19 10:34 AM

In the other line Woo mentioned that the 1855 addition of a bore size stamp is a known gun date marker in UK. He mentioned that Greener and Manton were two gun makers who were putting bore stamps on their guns prior to the 1855 regulation.

Well on 5512 there is very definitely a 16 between the two proof marks...it is a 16 bore..as Wootang noticed. Here are the possibilities:
1) Reilly was date stamping his guns before 1855 regulation like Greener and Manton.
2) The address on the rib - "316 High Holborn now 502 New Oxford Street" can't date the gun.
3) The serial number is wonky.

I believe option 1 and 3.
-- Auction houses stated in advertisements the bores of pre 1855 Reilly's.
-- I believe most London gun makers serial numbered guns when ordered (for bespoke guns); (In 1880 Reilly began to stock and sell his Reilly-made guns off the rack; I believe these were numbered when sold).
-- I also believe most London gun makers added the address on their ribs and blacked the barrels just before shipping.
Thus, the conclusion for the moment on 5512 is that the rib address is a more solid date-maker for 1847-48 than the presence of the bore stamp is for 1855....until proven otherwise.

However, to confirm this, need more examples of early Reilly barrel proof marks.

Posted by: bushveld

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/19/19 02:03 PM

Argo;

Hello there in McLean;

Interesting thought on London makers may have browned barrels just before shipping in the era under discussion. Can you enlighten me some more about this?

Regards;
Bv
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/19/19 05:26 PM

Well, I got the idea from you. I may have misunderstood or let this one instance assume too much importance?

Quoting Bushveld: "Engraving and engravers were just another craft/trade in the time of the E.M. Riley shotgun Weiland references. For example: E.J. Churchill sends a note and a set of barrels over to the excellent engraver Mr. Sumner on the morning of March 18, 1904 with the note reading: "Barrels of 1398 (gun number) To name (engrave the Churchill name and address), rough rib & engrave it these must be here tonight as they have to be blacked & go away tomorrow morning certain. Please Oblige; signed E.J. Churchill" From this note we can assume the Barrel blacker worked all night to get the barrels blacked for the customer gun to be shipped, as it usually takes 5 or 6 blacking cycles for a barrel to be completed--the blacker probably did not finish until late the next day."
Posted by: bushveld

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/19/19 05:55 PM

Argo;

Thanks for your quick reply.

In that particular instance, I believe the last minute barrel browning/blacking was as a result of an overall tight schedule of Churchill in the finishing of the subject shotgun. I have wondered what sort of proper barrel blacking job could have been done in such a short period, if indeed the schedule Churchill was as tight as he writes.

I suspect however, when the production schedule of building guns and rifles was normal, or at least more normal, that barrel were browned/blacked as soon as possible to prevent rusting from handling and rusting because of a humid environment.

Stay inside as it must be quite hot at McLean today.
Posted by: SKB

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/19/19 05:58 PM

Rust blue can be done using a variety of methods as well. Some factories used steam rooms to speed the process and Belgium style express blue would be another option.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/19/19 10:40 PM

I assume barrels are blacked or browned after the address on the rib is engraved from Bushveld's post on the Churchill above? So the barrel is made, welded, hammered, bored, honed, polished, joined, lumps added, rib cemented in...then engraved before browning? And browning doesn't take place until...??? When?

But does it make sense to put two barrels together, cement in the rib and then engrave the rib, before you know what gun it's going on? Could be but then I'm not a gun maker. But pictures of (mass production ) factories sure show a lot of bored barrels piled up and just sitting there. I don't really know diddly about gunmaking but common sense would seem to indicate the barrels are finished off for a bespoke gun as a last step...but am open to counter-arguments.

As for SN 5512 and whether the address on the rib or the bore stamp is a date marker...I'd still go with the address on the rib until proven otherwise. If anyone has pre 1855 Reillys and can check their guns (they're all posted above..) please post.





And Didier-Drevet never made more than 300 barrels a year in Saint Etienne to maintain quality throughout the last half of the 19th century.
Posted by: bushveld

Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers - 07/20/19 01:14 AM

Argo;

I know a way for you to gain, in a short period time, a primer on the art and craftsmanship of gunmaking to complement your considerable research skills.

10 years or so ago a video was made of the gunmaking process inside Holland & Holland, with the likely title of "A Look Inside HOLLAND & HOLLAND"--"Film by Billy Payn www.gunmakersrow.co.uk" Back then I think I paid 50 dollars US or UK pounds 50--I do not remember. It was available as a CD for both USA and European format. An hour or so in length. You should search for it and do yourself a great favor by purchasing it and learning, for example how ribs are soldered on,(yes, an actual video segment shows this in the H&H video) not cemented. Although they are "cemented" on these days for less expensive guns--and they stay on the barrels