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Edit Note: The current New History of Reilly is on p.54 of this line; the list of extant guns, dated is on p.44 - (the history is regularly updated and moved to the last page of the line)

Gentlemen, I am new. I am a Vietnam Vet, 2 tours, Special Forces, MACV-SOG and have spent some 25 years of the last 40 serving abroad for our country. I'm a gun enthusiast but not an expert. I recently bought an English hand-made EM Reilly, 12 ga. SxS hammer-gun shotgun after thinking about purchasing an English double for 25 years. The reason?

I served at the American Embassy in India for three years in the late 1980's. My landlord was Indian Army Major General D.K. (Monty) Palit, former chief of operations of the India Army (during the Indo-China War), Sandhurst in the 1930's, WWII Indian Army veteran, and noted military author. He was from an upper-class Indian family which had adopted British customs when it came to gun-sport (late 1880's on). He had 5 doubles on his wall passed down by his father and grandfather, I believe they were: a 12ga Holland & Holland, a 12ga E.M. Reilly, a 16ga possibly Army-Navy, one I'm not sure of and a 20ga. William Evans.

I had a CJ-7 Jeep in New Delhi at that time; he had the hunting permits; and we went out often in the Falls of those three years, hunting ducks, dove and quail in the brilliant yellow mustard fields of Uttar Pradesh on the Gangetic plain. He used his H&H; I used my Remington 870 - a pump - something he informed me one didn't do in polite society (I countered that in Alabama we might have a dog - here he had 5 shikaris and a couple of servers cleaning the birds and making duck-curry sandwiches - different places, different solutions). But the idea that I needed a SxS became fixed - even more so when he gifted my wife the 20ga William Evans as we left country. Since then I've held dozens of English SxS's. Nothing felt right.

Gen. Palit's books and obituary:
https://www.amazon.com/D.-K.-Palit/e/B001IC8QPK
http://www.india-seminar.com/2008/586/586_in_memoriam.htm

Then at a gun show in November this Reilly hammer gun just stuck to my hand. It was 6 lbs 1oz, chambered for 2 1/2; 30" Damascus barrels; twin triggers; no ejectors; with that beautifully slim upper stock and receiver back that comes with hammer guns - It was similar to the General's E.M. Reilly as I remembered it; Perhaps I had imprinted on that gun? But whatever It felt like a rapier, while everything else now seemed like battle-axes. The seller had about 15 guns from very high-quality makers. He said I was the only person ever to show interest in the Reilly. He insisted on my shooting it..I did and couldn't part with it..It had some imperfections; it wasn't pristine, had been worked on; I paid too much but it was my gun,

The Serial number is 34723. On the rib is the name and address of the maker, E.M Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London. I believe this shotgun was made in 1898 and it is perhaps one of the very last guns produced at the Reilly store at this location where they had worked for 51 years before they closed it (to be explained in subsequent posts).

I'm by no means an expert on English handmade doubles - there are contributors here who definitely are. However, After buying the Reilly I've done some research. I believe the Reilly numbering system (for long guns - hand guns had another entirely different system) from at least 1830 to 1905 was consistent, always numerically ascending (with a possible break of some 5000 SN's when the Store was transferred in 1847 per below) and that there are enough guns on the internet and enough known events associated with certain serial numbers to enable one to get a pretty good idea of when an individual Reilly was produced, possibly within a couple of years. And I've discovered some erroneous information which has been widely disseminated (Brown's Vol 3 being one of them).

I thought I'd share some of these findings with this extremely knowledgeable group and with the SxS shooting community at large with a request: that owners of Reilly's post their guns on this line, including serial numbers, Company name and address as imprinted on the guns and patent numbers if possible, and photo. With this information available in one spot surely the chronology of E.M. Reilly Serial Numbers can be refined.

I'll add three moe posts - 1) History of the firm (including various patent dates); 2) Important "date marker" serial numbersed guns; and 3) a list of 100 Reilly guns with serial numbers I've found on the internet in serial number order.

L-R: Author; Patel (who made the duck curry); General Palit, in New Delhi, November 1988:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

28 years later....a Reilly SxS in memory of General Palit:'

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
First I’d like to go into who were the Reilly’s, the father Joseph Charles (J.C.) jeweler (actually silver smith) turned gun-maker and has son Edward Michael. There is a lot of speculation that the father JC and son EM were marketers rather than gun makers. I’ll disagree. Surely they were engravers (there are swords and bayonets with the Reilly name on them)(you can't be a silversmith without knowing English engraving). Yet there is a consistency to the stocks, barrels, workmanship. engraving, etc. that makes a sporting Reilly to me almost instantly recognizable. They appear to only put Serial Numbers on guns they built or which were ordered at their shops; they put their name on other guns they were marketing but not numbers.

The Reilly name was very well known in the 1800’s and their guns were regarded as not only well made, affordable, and beautiful but innovative. They attempted at least three times to win a British Army gun contract using other makers’ patents; 1853 when the Enfield was adopted, 1865 when the Snider was adopted, 1870 when the Martini Henry was adopted. (These trial dates are date markers for numbered Reilly guns per a post to follow below)…and to do so he had to have had “connections.” Their guns were modern (though one could buy a muzzle loader in 1880 or a hammer gun in 1905); and they sold every type of gun in their shops new and used; they were one of the first London shops to sell Breech loaders.

Reilly was not anonymous. They made guns for European kings including the King of Spain, King of Portugal, King of the Netherlands and Indian Rajahs. And, they were highly regarded in the gun world. They were the sole agents for American Sharps rifles (1880), for Comblain breech loaders (1867), etc. They sold used guns. They sold Tanter revolvers and other hand guns and he put his name on all sorts of guns which passed through the shops including at least one winchester, a Navy Colt, etc.

--------------------

To illustrate, here is a quote from "Karma Express," a description of a trip on the The Deccan Odyssey, one of India's most regal luxury trains:

"Afterward, we were ferried out to the palace of the maharaja of Kolhapur, a late-Victorian pile in the syncretic Indo-Saracenic style invented by the British. It was designed by the English architect Charles Mant, although Lewis Carroll might have had a hand in it.

"The maharajas were great collectors of empire's bric-a-brac. The tomblike salons exuded a Dickensian squalor and were crammed with sambar heads and taxidermic elephants in full regalia, horse racing trophies, and stuffed fantail snipes. There were lamps with deer hooves for stands, electrically illuminated peacocks, glasses with boar-tusk handles, and beautiful English guns from the London firm of E. M. Reilly.
http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2007-04-16/karma-express

Chronology (cribbing shamelessly from trw99’s research and Roy Frossberg but adding some things): http://www.answers.com/Q/Where_can_you_f...on_serial_15346

1786 - Joseph Charles Reilly was born in 1786 in Granard, Co Longford, Ireland. At some time he moved to London.

1812, he married Martha Barkley (b.1787 in London) on 17 May 1812. They had a daughter, Elinor, and in a son, Edward Michael.

1814-1835 - he opened a business as a "jeweller" (goldsmith or silver plate - not sure) at 12 Middle Row, Holborn Bars and, as was common with jewelers in those days, he also part-exchanged, bought and sold guns. He held the Tenancy on this building from 1814 to 1835. (there is an engraving of this building from the Illustrated London News dated 1867. JC Reilly's presence at 12 Middle Row is confirmed by property records and London voting lists.

Note: I'm going to speculate. In the early 19th century Joseph Manton had raised gun making to an art form with elaborate engraving etc. I speculate that Reilly received guns from the Lawyers and country gentlemen around him to engrave...and this got him into the business...and that he began to market first pistols then went from there).

"Early in the present century, Messrs. Reily, gun makers, were established near Chancery Lane, in Holborn, where they enjoyed the patronage of members of the legal profession, besides an extensive country (gentry) connection Their premises were extensive, and afforded every facility for carrying on a large business. They adhered to the principle, that “It is not sufficient that an article be cheap; it must also bear the test of excellence.” (quotes from Wyman’s Commercial Encyclopedia) (1888).

J C Reilly guns were sometimes engraved "Holborn Bars”. Note: "Holborn Bars" likely refers to guns made at 12 Middle Row. This quote is interesting because it explains his connections: “Holborn was anciently of much consequence, not only on account of the many eminent people who resided here but because of the Inns of the Court (note: "lawyers") which graced both its north and south sides.”.” Holborn Bars used to stand a little west” … (Bar is a tax collection site…a road toll…there were six leading into London at the time on this road).

Inns of the court at Holborn, then and now:



See this site for a description of Chancery Lane and Holborn Bars and a woodcut.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/old-new-london/vol2/pp526-542

Interpretation of the Woodcut with location of Reilly's store per a map on Ancestry.com:



Note in the engraving on the top of Middle Row that stuck out into and blocked the street; Reilly's store was there. Sign says "Holborn Bars." "Inns of the Court" in the background.



1816 - Edward Michael Reilly born to Joseph Charles.

1819 - He entered a maker’s mark at Goldsmiths Hall in 1819 as a plateworker from 12 Middle Row, Holborn. (Note: I've been unable to verify this; there is a John C. Reilly from 1818-20 with a silver maker's mark; Plate would seem to indicate he worked in silver. Every goldsmith's mark is registered but I have difficulty navigating the site. Somebody in London might research this.)

1831 - The Times newspaper of 5th January 1831 reported a burglary on the 1st of January at the same address, the premises of J C Reilly, gun maker and silversmith. The value of property stolen was estimated at ÂŁ150.

1834 - Note: Cannot find Reilly advertisements for guns in London newspapers before about 1834….here are two and they seem to concentrate on pistols:

-- London Morning Chronicle, 1 Sep 1834: GUNS AND PISTOLS.-J. C. REILLY has acquired an excellent assortment of SECOND HAND GUNS, chiefly In exchiange, for less than half their value…..

-- London Morning Chronicle, 15 Dec 1834: GUNS and PISTOLS.-J. C. REILLY is desirous of DISPOSING of an accumulation of' SECOND- HAND GUNS, received in exchange, at about one-third the original price…

1835 – 1847 - 1835 – 1847: JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY (known also as J C REILLY) was in business as a gunmaker at 316 High Holborn, London. Any Reilly with the High Holborn address must be 1835 to 1847

(Note: Several sources claim 316 High Holborn allegedly was the old premises of Joseph Manton; But Wikipedia reports Manton went bankrupt in 1826 and his shop on “Oxford street” was seized and his entire stock of guns were sold to Joseph Lang. He revived his firm temporarily 1827-28 it too fell into debt, and he spent 1828-29 in debtors prison - He died Jun 1835; Other sources claim Manton’s shop was on Dover Street in Holborn. So more sources are needed to support this assertation - unless Manton occupied 316 High Holborn during his attempt to revive his firm and stayed there till his death in 1835). Here are addresses for Manton per a manufacture of reproduction labels:

Joseph Manton
Davies Street, Berkeley Square, London
1795 - 1805

John Manton
6 Dover Street, London
1801 - 1815

Joseph Manton
11 Hanover Square, London
1812 - 1820

Joseph Manton
Marylebone Park House, New Road, London
1828


-- Morning Chronicle, London, 14 Aug 1835: REMOVING.- JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY will be removing at the end of this month, to the spacious premises, 316, High Hoiborn, near Chancery-lane,

1835-47: There are hundreds of advertisements by JC Reilly in various London periodicals..almost daily.. including this one from London Evening Standard, 1 February 1839: “Pistols of every description, and a large Stock of Second-hand Guns by the Mantons, Purdey, Forsyth, &c. at half price. REILLY, 316, High Holborn, near Chancery-lane.”

See: http://www.genesreunited.co.za/searchbna/results?memberlastsubclass=none&searchhistorykey=0&keywords=reilly&county=london%2C%20england&from=1830&to=1839&type=advertisement&page=1

1838 - Name/Store: Reilly, Joseph Charles, gunmaker; 316 Chancery St., 8. High Holborn, Division II Holborn Bars, London; (John Tallis’s London Street Views, London Shops and Businesses 1838-1840)

1840 : Name: J C REILLY at 316 High Holborn mentioned as a ‘gunmaker’ in Blaine’s Rural Sports

1841 - Name: Joined by his son, Edward Michael as a partner; the 1841 census listed Edward as "Gunmaker." (Some reports claim that EM joined his father in the business in 1835 on the move to High Holborn, age of 19, which seem plausible at least as a trainee, possibly not as a partner).

1841 - In the 1841 census Joseph and his family were recorded at "Holborn (above the Bars)", both Joseph and Edward described themselves as gun makers.

1841 : Name: JOSEPH REILLY is mentioned in the poem ‘Shooting’ by Alexander Webber, published in this year.

1847 - Store: Opened 502 Oxford; See Reilly SN 8463. St.; aka New Oxford Street, London. A history of Reilly claims that EM Reilly kept his father's system of consecutive Serial Numbers when Oxford St. Opened and that he began with SN 8400 and by 1880 had reached about 20,000. I can find no evidence he cited, but from the below analysis and list of SN's, the author knew what he was talking about.

The opening of this store was likely in late March 1847…see below:

-- “The lease of these premises (Holborn) expired in 1847. The new road from Holborn to Oxford Street had just been opened affording an opportunity to obtain a new building situated in a fine central position, the leading approach fro the City to the extreme west end of London.” (Wyman)

-- London Morning Post, 13 Mar 1847: “GUNS, PISTOLS, and RIFLES.— REILLY, Gunmaker, 316, Holborn, near Chancery-lane.— The Lease of these premises will expire at Thursday next, and he is RE- MOVING to 502, New Oxford Street

-- See: London Daily News, 23 April 1847. “BLISSETT, gunmaker (formerly Reilly's), 316, High Holborn, near Chancery-lane.”

-- London Daily News, 30 Oct 1847: “Pistols of every description. Gentlemen going abroad, officers, and cadets, will find all their requirements anticipated in REILLY'S extensive Stock; New and Second-hand', 502, New Oxford-street, removed from Holborn. FRANCE, SWITZERLAND, ITALY. CONTINENTAL.”

Label on the case of 8464 i.e. "Removed from Holborn":



Print of 502 Oxford St. from a label in a case:



502 (16) Oxford Street today:



1850 : Book: E M REILLY published his ‘Treatise on Air Guns’ Trade labels advertised ‘Air Canes for Sale’

1851 - Exhibition: London Great Exhibition E M REILLY of Oxford Street exhibited guns (not just air guns either) at the Great Exhibition. He was known to have been influenced by the breechloaders shown by Lefaucheaux of Paris and was ‘overdone with orders’. the Reillys together with Joseph Lang and John Blanch were the best known promoters of centre-fire guns after the 1851 Great Exhibition (see below catalogue).

Great Exhibition catalogue entry #237 (right below #236 Rigby): “Reilly, E.M. New Oxford St.; Manu — Improved guns, rifles, pistols, air guns, etc. (comment" J.C. is not mentioned in this catalogue).

“Messrs. Reilly first exhibited the now popular “Breech-Loaders” in the World’s Fair of 1851, but the sporting public had not then discovered the great advantages of the system. About this period or a few years later, Messrs. Reilly received favorable reports of their breech-loaders from a few unprejudiced sportsmen. “The quickness of loading is wonderful; the new gun kills as well as my old ones.” (Wyman)

1851 - British Army trials which picked the .577 Enfield as standard rifle, adopted in 1853. Any Enfields built by Reilly must post date 1853.

1854 - Advertisement; Reilly, Joseph Charles, 502, Oxford Street. Reilly, Edward Michael, 502, Oxford

1854 - Advertisement: Reilly: selling self-cocking Tranter revolvers on the Adams Patent.

1855 - Exhibit: Messrs Reilly were exhibitors at the Paris exhibition of 1855 and their display “attracted considerable notice and valuable patronage.” All the goods were sold and many orders booked.

1855 - Fredrick Prince's breech loading patent - (see Reilly SN 10782 & 11645); Fredrick Prince's .577 percussion breach loading rifle. outshot the just adopted Enfield 1853 in trials in 1855. 1859 several gun makers petitioned the Board of Ordnance to reconsider their decision. Reilly was marketing this gun and is so mentioned in the below historical site. He always had the most modern breech loaders in his shop. History: http://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/130153944059/historicalfirearms-frederick-princes

1855 - Beaumont-Adams patent; (see B 7452 - probably not a Reilly SN).

1858 - Advertisements in London Travel literature carry the name "Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London

1858 - Field Trial: breechloader v muzzleloader trials with [amongst others] Lancaster, Needham and Lang. Placed tenth in a trial of ’58 and eleventh in ’59.

1858 - Guns: Produced rifles on the C E Green & J Green patent – a ‘capping breech loader’ that had a rudimentary cartridge ignited by an external cap fired by a conventional side hammer.

1858 - Advertisement: Address used was
“Reilly, Gun Maker, 502 New Oxford Street, London”
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im1858POCum-Reilly.jpg

1859 - Opened a branch store at 315 New Oxford Street aka 315 Oxford Street, London. (see Reilly SN 12079). J.C. Reilly used “Reilly & Co.” (believe JC had retired he was 74 years old; he died 1864). Edward sold guns labeled 502 Oxford street as Edward M. Reilly & Co.

(interesting that in 1844, Issac Riviere was listed as a gun maker at 315 Oxford street per a list of London gun makers) (Riviere had considerable influence over the design of precussion pistols and patented his own lock in 1825; he died in 1851) https://books.google.com/books?id=OZxeAA...rn&f=false-

- see advertisement below - left is 1858 (no 315), right is 1859 (with 315 + shooting galleries).

1859 - Advertisement: first use of “E.M. Reilly? First noted use of 315 Oxford Street address.
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im1859PODor-Reilly.jpg



Note Prices quoted in Guineas: From Wikipedia: "Even after the coin ceased to circulated (1816), the name guinea was long used to indicate the amount of 21 shillings (Ł1.05 in decimalised currency). The guinea had an aristocratic overtone; professional fees and payment for land, horses, art, bespoke tailoring, furniture and other luxury items were often quoted in guineas until a couple of years after decimalisation in 1971." A cased Reilly breechloader in 1859 was 15-30 Guineas. Assuming $4.50 per Guinea at exchange rate at that time, a Reilly could have cost between about $70 and $130, a lot of money in those days.

1859 - London Field Trial; Reilly entered the British 1859 Field Trials with a 15 bore breech-loader built on the Lefaucheux system. Placed 11th. It was highly praised by the editors of “Field” magazine.

1859 - Patent: Henry Jones' patent #2040 was granted September 7, 1859.

1860 - Patent: C.E and J. Green, Provisional Patent (bolt action system)

1862 - Patent: Green Bros Patent 23 (bolt action system). See Reilly SN 13333.

1862 - Exhibition: “Great preparations were made by the firm for the London exhibition of 1862 and about that time Mr. Edward Reilly had taken partners and extended his business to a great extent, having opened a branch further westward on Oxford Street near Regents Circle where an active trade was carried on” (Wyman)

1863 - Patent: ’Purdey Bolt' patent no. 1104

1864 - 1861 UK Census JC Reilly listed as a fund holder and land proprietor living in Bourn End, Cranfield, Bedfordshire. He died in Cranfield, Bedfordshire in 1864. His Will was proved at the Principal Registry in that year; the value of his estate was under Ł7000. His son Edward Michael, gun maker also of 502 New Oxford Street, was appointed one of the executors.

1864: Advertisement: “Improved Enfield Rifles” etc.
E.M Reilly & Co., Gunmakers, 502 New Oxford Street, London;
Branch establishment 315 Oxford Street, near Regents Circus.

1865 - Patent: ’Scott Spindle' patent no. 2752

1865 - Trials: British trials to pick a breech loader after German victory over the Danes in 1864. British Army picked the Snider action Enfileld, .577 as a stop gap breech loader. Reilly entered a Green Bros patent rifle (see 13333). All Reilly Sniders should be post-1866. Note Sniders continued to be used by the Indian Army, and elements of colonial militias for the next 40 years; Reilly made Snider hunting rifles bought by British Army officers going abroad so they could use issue ammunition. The Snider, though was only a stop gap.

To begin the process on the next generation breech-loader, British War office held a prize competition in 1865 with a prize money of Ł5000 to select from various designers a weapon that utilised a smaller, higher velocity projectile than the .577” snider. The trials were to take place within the next two years, with an ultimate winner to be announced in 1869,

1866 - Advertisement: Australia (re Tasmanian agents for Reilly): for E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 New Oxford Street, London, which “begged to announce” that the Reilly was built “on systems not liable to derangement”. The advertisement shows a pair of under-lever pin- fire guns built on the Jones under-lever system in bore sizes 12, 15 17, and 24.

1867 - Partnership: Comblain bolt action (Belgian) patent; described in "The Engineer" May 15 1868 on page 347. Reilly presented the Comblain as a possible successor to the Snider during 1870 trials.

1867 - Patent: Rebounding hammers were patented by Stanton;

1867 - Paris exhibition - great success. M Reilly & Co were awarded a Prize Medal at the Paris Exhibition.

“At the Paris Exhibition of 1867, Messrs. Reilly were highly successful and recognized as the leading makers to the best amateurs of the day, which led to the establishment of a branch house in Rue Scribe, Paris. Captain James Forsyth said in the “Field” of July 6, 1867 - “The stand of arms shown by Reilly & Co. of London, is undoubtedly the best in the Exhibition. Almost every system of breech-loading that has been introduced for sporting guns and rifles is here seen, and their heavy double central-fire rifles for shells and for spherical balls are in every way excellent. This Firm is among the first to adopt and carry out improvements; and they offer the advantages of working at comparatively low rates and carrying out orders with dispatch I can myself speak to the soundness and excellent shooting their central-fire rifles, having used them several seasons in India, with the effect of leading me to prefer their central-fire system as now constructed.” In August of the same year Captain Majendie, R.A, one of the Commissioners appointed by the British Government, wrote to the “Illustrated London News”: — “The English display of arms consists of a fine collection show by the English Government; also Messrs. Reilly’s who’s case is one in which the proper course has been adopted to exhibit in a worthy manner the advance position of the English gun trade by a private firm. Messrs. Reilly have a number of sporting guns and rifles of different sorts, the best being made on the central-fire system.”

1867; Army trials: (For a successor to the Snider) On June 11, 1867, the prize sub-committee of the OSC reported that 104 rifles had been submitted for examination. Of those, 37 were in compliance with the terms of the advertisement, 67 had not complied, and while ineligible for the competition were set aside for consideration on their own merits. Further consideration of the 37 complying rifles, resulted in the rejection of 28. The nine systems to be carried over for trial, and requiring six specimen arms were the Albini & Braendlin, the Burton No.1 and No. 2, the Fosbery, the Henry, the Joslyn, the Martini, the Peabody, and The Remington. (See the Reilly Comblain mentioned in the chronology below)

1868 (January?) - Store: Opened a branch store at 2 Rue Scribe, Paris. (see Reilly SN 15270); Most guns made subsequent to this date and up to 1886 should have the Paris along with either 502 or 315 Oxford Street or New Oxford Street or just Oxford Street or New Oxford with Rue Scribe with no number. There are exceptions, however, and some gun ribs had only the Oxford Street addresses for some reason or another (there was some Franco-phobia around in Britain at the time).

(The date of the opening of this store is confirmed by advertisements in British travel books showing the Rue Scribe address for the first time + reproductions of the gold and silver medals won at the 1867 Paris fair).



-- Earliest London Newspaper ad for Reilly with the Paris address (they trumpted their medals at the 67 Paris fair from August 1867 on) is this one; as of end of October 1867, no Paris address in his ads. PALL MALL GAZETTE, London, 12 Feb 1868: E. M. REILLY and CO., 502 NEW OXFOD STREET, London. Branch Establishments- 315, Oxford-street, London ; and 2, Rue Scribe, Paris

1870 - Trials: Trials to replace the Snider by British Army, Reilly enters a Belgian Comblain breech loader with his name on it. No Paris address but Paris is stamped on one butt on Comblain nr. 32, probably a trial gun.

1871 - Martini Henry (Martini action, Henry barrel) adopted by British Army. (See Reilly SN 17644) It was used until 1892 when the Lee-Medford then Lee-Enfield was adopted and continued to be entered in marksmanship contests until WWI. Reilly made Martini Henry’s for the next 30 years in various calibers. The first Reilly Martini Henry I can find is SN 17644 (and I can't be sure it's really a Reilly SN). (I do not believe he place Reilly SN's on many subsequent Martini orders though he put his name on them..17644 is the only Reilly SN I can find - and the SN may not be his).

On 13th April 1871 the orders were placed at the Royal Small Arms factory at Enfield for full scale production of the Martini Henry Rifle, between then and 1874 The Martini Henry was trialled throughout the Empire by various regiments, and finally on September 28th 1874 it was authorised for full issue to the British Army. (Mark I-IV variants - this was the gun of Rork's Drift, the Zulu Wars; the Second invasion of Afghanistan in 1878 - used by British Regiments, etc).

1871 - Advertisement in Statesman’s Yearbook, 1871:
E. M. REILLY and CO.,
GUN MANUFACTURERS,
502 New Oxford Street, London.
BRANCH: 2 RUE SCRIBE, PARIS.

1871 - American catalogue: 1871 J. H. Johnston Great Western Gun Works catalog:
Muzzle loader = sold as ‘English’, ‘Belgian’, ‘American’, only Greener is called out by name
Breech loader = Greener, Westley Richards, E. M. Reilly & Co

1870-1880 - Advertisements in Bradshaw Illustrated travel books.
E.M. Reilly & Co of 502, Oxford Street, London, branches 315, Oxford Street, London and 2, Rue Scribe, Paris

1870 - Advertisement, “Bradshaw’s Pedestrian Route Book for Switzerland, Chamouni and the Italian Lakes.” 502 and 315 Oxford Street and Rue Scribe addesses. It mentions: Sole manufacturers of the Reilly-Comblain rifle for military and sporting purposes (see Reilly-Comblain entries below in the SN thread)

1872 - Patent: Anson's fore-end fastener patent no. 3791

1874 - Patent: Needham patented a hammerless, barrel-cocking gun which was also the first ejector in 1874.

1875 - Patent: W.M. Scott's patent 3223

1875 - Patent: Anson & Deely patent; the first hammerless gun with top lever.

1878 - Patent: Mills 3rd bite patent no 4980

1878 - Patent: Patent Number 761 was recorded by William Middleditch Scott and Thomas Baker

1878 - Exhibition: Paris Exhibition

1881-1891: Reilly guns dominate pigeon shooting contests in England and abroad,

1881 - Address: Late in 1881 Oxford street was re-numbered - 315 becoming 277 and 502 becoming 16. Reilly used both numbers along with Rue Scribe in advertisements in 1882. Theoretically guns after 1881 ought to have 16 Oxford or 277 Oxford along with the Rue Scribe Paris address. However, some guns apparently continued to be labeled with the 502 and 315 Oxford Street numbers. (see 1882 advertisement below)

1882 - January, Advertisement: Royal Red Book of Court and Fashionable Register for January
EM REILLY & CO.
277 (315), Oxford St., W; 16 (502) New Oxford St.[/color],
and Rue Scribe, Paris



1883 - Advertisement; Army Navy Calendar for the Financial Year1883-84 (Note continued use of the 315 and 502 addresses)

Advertisement for EM Reilly,
IMPROVED BREECH LOADERS
located at 315 and 502 Oxford Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris

1883 - Exhibition: Calcutta, 1883. Silver medal prize.

1884 - Prize: Awarded a Gold Medal in the London Exhibition.

1885 - Exhibition: "Messrs. Reily & Co.’s stand at the International Inventions Exhibition of 1885 was acknowledged to have been one of the best-appointed exhibits. Express rifles formed an important part in this display. the double 450-bore and 500-bore with long cartridge and 120 grains of powder, and the 400-bore with 90 grains of powder, were much admired and considered equal to the work required of them, viz, deer-stalking, black buck, etc. Amongst the exhibits were Magnum Express 577, and large bore rifles, 12, 10, 8, and 4 gauge, single and double barreled, of the latest construction, taking heavy charges of powder, as supplied to well-known hunters and explorers in Africa, India and other parts of the world. Rook and rabbit rifles of 300-bore, with hammers and hammerless. The shooting these small bores - either single or double barrel - rifled on their non-fouling system, is wonderfully accurate.” (Wyman)

“Messrs. Reilly also exhibited self-ejector hammerless guns, which throw out the exploded cartridge case or cases as may be… This gun has the automatic safety bolt and other recent improvements in hammerless guns."

1886 : Advertisement: Burke’s Landed Gentry publication shows premises at 277 Oxford Street, 16, New Oxford Street and Rue Scribe, Paris.

1886 - Address: Reilly closed Rue Scribe, Paris. (See Reilly SN 26584). Some claim he opened another office in St Honore. I doubt this. The address is for a hotel. Perhaps he kept a mailing address there. - I'm not denigrating others' research...I just can't find the references...please add to this if you know more.

The last SN I can find with Oxford St. and Rue Scribe. It's on a label in my case. The SN is 26584 and there is a date 1886 in the corner, hand written:



1887 - Proof Mark: “Not for Ball” proof mark dropped.

1889 - Southgate lockwork, ejector and interceptor sear patent no 12314.

1889 Jun - 1890 Feb: Law suit re easement to the entrance way to 277 New Oxford Street. Reilly v. Booth. Cited in land law cases for the next 100 years: https://books.google.com/books?id=lTIyAA...don&f=false

1890 - Personal: EM Reilly dies. Business taken over by his sons Charles E. Reilly (b1871) and Herbert (Bert) H. Reilly (b. 1875)? Who ran the business since these boys were 19 and 16 years old at the time? Mary, the wife?

1893 - Patent: Southgate's ejector trip patent no 8239

1898 - Address: 16 New Oxford Street closed. (See Reilly SN 34723); 277 New Oxford Street remains open.

1903 - Registration: Charles Arthur Farquhar Reilly (b1870) & Herber Horace (Bert) Reilly listed at 277 Oxford Street, London in electoral roles.

1903 - Address: 277 New Oxford Street vacated - moved to 295 Oxford Street. (See Reilly SN 35423)

From 1904 to 1911 the firm was recorded at 295 Oxford Street. According to oft repeated information, A gun built c1905 also carries his late father’s address of 12 Middle Row, Holborn on the top rib. I've seen bad information repeated ad nauseam and become "history." Middle Row was destroyed and the Prudential building built there in the late 1800's. Before accepting this, I'd like to see the gun and the serial number.

In 1912 E M Reilly & Co Ltd was recorded at 13 High Street, Marylebone. The directors of this limited company were H Reilly and C W Roberts. I've attempted to establish the identity of CW Roberts...no success so far. Welcome additional information. (see page 15: CW Roberts is likely George W. Roberts, liquidated who handled the bankruptcy of Reilly on June 8, 1912.)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From the above history and the below list of 100 Reilly Serial Numbers I’ve found on the internet, here are some the key Serial Numbered guns which can be used as “chronological markers.” I’ll post the list of all of the guns I’ve found to support this. Note: The Reilly hand-guns appear to follow a different numbering system, perhaps having started at 40,000 - haven’t researched them.

162 - 1820’s? Earliest Reilly I can find. I speculate that any Reilly labeled "Holborn Bars" was made and serial numbered at 12 Middle Road, Holborn above the Bars. Reilly moved to 316 High Holborn in 1835.

1024 - 1835? This is speculation but I believe 1024, even though it is a pistol, is the earliest Reilly made at 316 High Holborn that I can find.

3329 - 1847? Last use of 316 High Holborn Street on a gun (although there may be later ones)

8463 - 1848?; first confirmed used of Oxford Street on gun (case label has “removed from Holborn); (Note gap of some 5,000 numbers from the last Holborn Street gun and the first confirmed Oxford Street gun...this needs more data).

10782 - 1855 Frederic Prince patent - breech loader, trialed in 1855 against the Enfield rifled muzzle loader. First Reilly Prince.

12079 - 1859 (first mention of 315 Oxford Street)

13333 - 1862 (first mention of Green Bros Patent) (this is Green Bros Test gun 32, almost certainty produced in 1862)

15270 - 1868 (first mention of Paris address; non rebounding hammers) (all commercial guns should have the Paris address at least on the cases and in advertisements from 1868 to 1886; however per below, some guns continued to have only the London addresses engraved on the ribs)

16341 - 1870 (first Reilly Snider = post 1866; rebounding hammers = post 1868)

17644 - 1872? (First Reilly Martini SN, Martini Henry adopted by British Army 1871 - can't be sure this is a Reilly number)

25161 - 1885? (Problematic gun - It has the 502 Oxford + Rue Scribe address; and the case is labeled 1880 made for the King of Spain; But the SN seems wrong and the story is very odd -check it out. So was the original gun stolen and replaced by Reilly later using the original markings?

25460 - 1885 (First confirmed use of the 277 Oxford address on a gun rib; the address changed in 1881 but 315 Oxford rather than 277 continued to be used on the guns themselves and at times in advertisements, as was 502 Oxford rather than 16 Oxford) (Note: This could change; There are a number of guns with 16 Oxford and Rue Scribe and 277 Oxford and Rue Scribe posted on the internet. Unfortunately, SN’s are not posted.)

26584 - 1886 (Label in a case w/date. Last Paris +16 Oxford address?)

34723 - 1898 (Last confirmed use of 16 Oxford Street address on a gun)

34865 - 1898 (277 Oxford Street address continues to be used on a gun)

35092 - 1900? (277 Oxford Streed address...declining sales?)

35413 - 1903 (first confirmed use of 295 Oxford Street address on a gun)
+++++List of Reilly Serial Numbers to 1904 and comments +++++++++++++ (!!!!!!!!!!!!! = date marker serial numbers)

162 - (1820’s?); !!!!!!!!! First Reilly SN on the net !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Address: J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS LONDON; Believe this is the 12 Middle Row address, Reilly was there from 1814-1835,
Description: 14 bore, percussion, single-barreled muzzle-loading shotgun shotgun; re-browned twist-iron triple-stage 32in. barrel with carved bands at the intersection, the top-flat signed in gothic script 'J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS LONDON',
Comments: The auctioneer identified this as an circa 1835 gun. This is the earliest serial number I’ve ever seen for a Reilly and if it is accurate, it has to be 1820’s…Reilly engraving was always special and it looks like this gun had it (no photo available)
https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=10247&aid=86974&lid=22392051

176 (Pistol) Pre 1835. Believe this is the 12 Middle Row address, Reilly was there from 1814-1835
Name: J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS, LONDON
Description: Serial #176, .50 caliber, 8 3/4" smooth bore octagon barrels with lightly oxidized bores. The tops of the barrels are each marked "J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS, LONDON" and each lock is engraved "J.C. REILLY". The locks and hammers show lovely flowing foliate scroll with panoplies of arms engraved on the hammers. The bolsters are equipped with platinum blow out plugs.
Comment: Do not know if Reilly hand-guns used his sequential Serial Numbering, These pistols though with "Holborn Bars" may have. Note rounded butts.-
Terry Boffum owned these gunst.
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/108/283.html

xxxx (Pistol)
Name: J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, LONDON
Description: British Mid 19th Century Pocket Pistol, comprising: Small [Overall Length 14cm] Muzzle Loading Percussion Pocket Pistol, Proof Marks to Underside of 5.5cm Barrel. Complete with Foliate Decoration, Bag Shaped Walnut Grip & Folding Trigger.
Comment: Holborn Bar indicates this pistol is pre 1835 before the move to High Holborn.
http://www.vectis.co.uk/Page/ViewLot.aspx?LotId=598875&Section=0&Start=320

xxxx (Pistol) - Must be after 1835, see above
Name: JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON
Description: .50 caliber pistol with a 10-inch octagonal barrel measures 15-inches in overall length. Wood ramrod with flared brass cap, brass section at rear unscrews exposing the worm. Top of barrel marked "JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON." London proof marks. Platinum blowout plug on nipple drum. One barrel key with oval silver escutcheons. The brown Damascus finish slightly worn.
http://www.aaawt.com/html/firearms/f296.html

1024 - (Pistol)!!!!!! 1st recorded SN with 316 High Holborn (after 1835 - see above re move to 316 High Holborn in August 1835 documented by London Tax Records and newspaper advertisement);!!!!!
Address: Reilly 316 Holborn London
Description: erkussions-Terzerolpistole um 1840 Joseph Charles Reilly London
achtkantiger, glatter Lauf, im Kaliber 8,5 mm, mit leichter Gravur an Laufmündung, sowie Signatur auf der Oberseite "Reilly 316 Holborn London". Mit Rankendekor graviertes Perkussionsschloss, Abzug klappt bei Spannung des Hahnes aus.
Comment: Pistol….interesting serial number. rounded butt
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auctio...30-a3fd003539d2

1174 - (1837 +?); (If the above pistol SN is correct this will be after 1835 move to 316 High Holborn)
Address: J.C. REILLY (no address);
Description: 8 bore, percussion, single shot, muzzle loading shotgun. Patch box in butt.
http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...2&saletype=

1292 (Pistol) (1837 +?)
Address: Reilly, London
Description: Miniature 120-Bore Box-Lock Percussion Pocket Pistol By Reilly of London, Circa 1850. With round turn-off barrel engraved with a band of foliage at the breech.
Comment: Percussion miniature pistol, typical of early Reilly’s; believe he manufactured this. Note the rounded butt…seems to be a marker.
http://www.garthvincent.com/antique/1597/a+miniature+pocket+pistol/

3329 - (1846-1847?) !!!!!!!!!! First and last recorded SN'd gun with High Holborn - I believe this was c1847 just before they moved !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Address: J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBORN, LONDON;
Description: 10 gauge/.58 caliber. 30 inch brown twist barrels, the concave rib signed Joseph Charles Reilly 316 High Holburn London; single standing/single folding rear sight; breech end of rib inlaid with two platinum bands. London proofs. Patent breech. Scroll-engraved tang and back action locks, the latter signed Reilly. Engraved steel furniture. Figured walnut half-stock with vacant silver wrist escutcheon. Sling swivels. Brass-tipped ramrod. Together with green baize-lined oak case.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22403/lot/5482/

xxxx (1840’s?)
Address: JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON
Description: A fine classical English iron mounted half stocked double barrelled hunting gun c. 1840 by Joseph Charles Reilly with butt cap, trigger guard, and locks finely engraved with English scroll, c. 71 cm. long barrels in calibre c. 16,5 cm. marked on the strap JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON.
Comment: Beautiful engraving with a classic Reilly stock..the markers are there very early. He made this gun. I want it.
https://www.barnebys.com/auctions/lot/32...charles-reilly/

8463 - (1847); !!!!!!!!!! Earliest SN after move to 502 Oxford !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Address: Reilly, New Oxford Street, London (case label has “removed from Holborn);
Description: .390, percussion, double express rifle. Enfield type rifling, muzzle loading; (breaks down) with patch box in butt;
Comment: This is the first confirmed use of the Oxford Street address on a Reilly gun..and the label "removed from Holborn" would indicate an early provenance after the change to Oxford street. But there's that pesky gap of 5,000 serial numbers.
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-1361-e-m...nal-case-40673/

84xx - (1847);
Address: REILLY. 502 OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: 6 Bore; 26.25'' barrel, Manufactured in England circa 1840s. Original browned finish barrel, casehardened lock, mounted in a walnut stock with double wedged forend and checkered wrist. Fine scroll leaf engraving on the lockplate and stock mounts. Engraved on the side of the lockplate "REILLY.LONDON". The barrel has likely been shortened to the present length. Ramrod is a later replacement. The lock functions fine. Antique, s/n 84xx
Comment
http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=42593

8578 - (1849?);
Address: JC Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London (case label has “removed from Holborn);
Description: A CASED DOUBLE BARREL PERCUSSION SPORTING GUN
ca 1850, lock signed Reilly (Joseph Charles R. London), lock and steel mounts with engraved decorations, triggerguard with no 8578, twist barrels with London proof marks, signed on the rib JC Reilly, 502 New Oxford street London, 114 cm, case with label
Comment: "Removed for Holborn" means it should be within a couple of years of the March 1847 move from 316 to 502. 1849 would seem a logical date.
http://www.probusauktioner.se/auktion/au...November%202014

xxxx - (1853-65?);
Address: Reilly, Oxford Street, London.
Description. .577? Muzzle loading, percussion, rifle, with Enfield like sights. No details (Polish site)…
Comments: This might be a sporting Enfield. Patch box in butt.
http://www.dobrybazar.sk/detail/predam-perkusnu-gulovnicu-reilly-new-oxford-street

B 7452 - (1855?) (Beaumont Adams patent) (502 address - earlier than reported?) (I now feel the "B" in front of the number makes this certainly NOT a Reilly number.)
Address: E.M. REILLY, 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON; (note “B” in front of SN)
Description: .577 Beaumont- Adams patent 5-shot, double action, percussion revolving (cylinder) rifle. The patent is dated c1855. It was retailed by Reilly. It is possible Reilly tried to convince the British Army to adopt it (.577 caliber; British Army). (beautiful stock, what would become a typical Reilly stock)
Comments: This rifle looks like a revolver. Serial number has a "B" in front of it...Reilly seems only to have done that when selling other's guns. But I believe he was involved in trying to get the Armory to recompete the Enfield bid and put it up against this gun!
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/arms-...18-details.aspx

9137 - (1855?) (I now believe this is not a Reilly SN - yet check it out; Damascus barrel, gorgeous stock, beautiful work)
Address: E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 Oxford St. London
Description: .40 Calibre Break Action Needle Fire Rook Rifle
Comment: this Patent was taken out in 1855. I have a feeling Reilly marketed these guns (see second one below in the late 1850’s. This looks like a Reilly SN but may not be; other makers sold these guns as well.
http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Odd%20Fel...2040%20Cal..htm

see another similar Needle Fire gun (no SN) marketed by Edwin C. Green at (on page 8):
http://www.jcmilitaria.com/antique_weapons_rifles.asp?Start=60
image here: http://www.jcmilitaria.com/display_image.asp?ID=10135

10315 -
Address: REILLY, NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON
Description: .6-BORE PERCUSSION SINGLE-BARRELED FOWLING-PIECE, serial no. 10315, circa 1855, with tapering twist-iron 38in. browned barrel, moulded short sighting rib at breech with long borderline engraved steeple to the front terminating in a finely engraved starburst,
Comments: No Photo, etc. Identified by seller as c1855.
https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/REILLY-LONDON/22392022/LotDetail.asp?lid=22392022

10354? - (1856?) (SN very unclear)
Address: Reilly 502 New Oxford Street London
Description: .400, SxS double breech loading rifle completely redone in 1890’s.
Comments: the gun is so redone that it looks very 1890’s. The only original thing left looks to be the barrels and the action with the SN. Interesting though. SN is unclear from the photos,
http://www.icollector.com/Cased-English-...och-2_i19846957

10619 - (1857?)
Name: “Reilly” (no details)
Description: .380 SINGLE-BARRELLED PERCUSSION PARK RIFLE
Comments: Christies is not helpful in the info they leave behind after their sales.
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/print_sale.aspx?saleid=10537

10621 - (1857?)
Name: E.M. Reilly, London (cannot confirm this from photos - if true, 1st use of EM Reilly on a gun)
Description: .376 Percussion sporting rifle by E M Reilly, 24 ins octagonal half stocked barrel. Muzzle loader.
Comment: Very old-school, with Reilly stock. Remember though both armies went through the War Between the States with old school Enfiled like percussion rifles.
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auctio...87-a4f700ac96eb

10782 - (1857?) !!!!!!!!!! 1st Frederic Prince - 1855 Patent !!!!!
Name: Reilly, New Oxford St, London
Description: .577 percussion breach loading rifle. Fredrick Prince 1955 Patent. Outshot the 1853 Enfield in trials in 1855. 1859 several gun maker petitioned the Board of Ordnance to reconsider their decision.
Comment: Reilly was marketing this gun. He always had the most modern breech loaders in his shop. Looks like he put his SN on this one
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auctio...65-a448009068b8

11227 - (1858?)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford St., London
Description: Standard military configuration 1853 pattern Enfield, muzzle loader; Percussion.
Comments: 1853 Enfields were still the standard gun of the British Army and of the Confederate Army. Very fine work, gold inlay
http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/civilwarantiques/1306webcat.html

11645
Name: REILLY, 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: 100 BORE PERCUSSION BREECH-LOADING PRINCE'S PATENT RIFLE. CIRCA 1855-60
with signed tapering sighted barrel rifled with four shallow grooves, scroll-engraved back-action lock, figured walnut half-stock, chequered grip, scroll-engraved trigger-guard fitted with sliding safety-catch engaging the bolt at the front, and engraved steel butt-cap
71.5cm; 28 1/8in barrel. Frederick Prince patented this system in 1855.
Comment:
http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogues/as071211/page12.html

11651 - (1859?) !!!!!!!! 1st use of EM on a rib - documented 1859 advertisement !!!!
Name: E.M. Reilly, Oxford St., London
Description: .577" Snider sporting rifle converted from percussion, by Reilly, London, with military style ladder rearsight, the Breech engraved "E.M. Reilly Oxford Street, London", plain lock with rounded hammer, the plate engraved "Reilly, London"; walnut halfstock with fore end and wrist, plain steel mounts including scrolled trigger guard numbered 11651, and large patch box in butt, Percussion.
Comments: Key comment is that this was an Enfield…probably built by Reilly per above…then later (after 1866) converted to Snider…a straight forward conversion.
http://www.millersantiquesguide.com/items/48760/577-snider-sporting-rifle/

12079 - (1860?) !!!!!!!!! first mention of 315 Oxford Street address ]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO., 315 & 502 OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: 451 PERCUSSION VOLUNTEER MILITARY TARGET RIFLE; Muzzle loading, Percussion.
Comment: This is the first SN with the 315 Oxford Street address on a gun. 315 Oxford opened in 1859. Patch storage in the butt.
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auctio...99-a561010b95f5

12532 - (1861?)
Name: REILLY, 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON (on case E.M Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London).
Description: Gold plated 12 bore, percussion fire, muzzle loading rifle. ALL the metal parts have been gilded, it has 32″ fluted barrels and a beautiful Walnut stock.
Comment: Highly ornate, gold plated, fancy stock, amazing case obviously made for a Marahajah. This does not have the Paris address.
http://micksguns.com/cased-guns/
Secong Ad says 1855. I’d reckon it to be 6-7 years older based on serial number.
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/e.m.-reilly,-london-a-gilded-and-cased-12-bore-pe-545-c-cbe4d2e8d5

13033
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London
Description: 20 bore, 29" barrels with very good bores that show a little scattered light pitting. This is a very nice quality shotgun that remains in very fine condition. The back action locks are engraved with folky gamescenes with gamebirds in wooded scene surrounded by scroll. Reilly pinfire double gun. [Terry Buffum Collection]
Comment:
https://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=103285&p=16&sort=0

13333 - (1862?) (Green brother’s patent) !!!!!!! Firm identification !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO, 502 NEW OXFORD ST, LONDON
Description: .577 PERCUSSION CAPPING BREECH-LOADING CARBINE, MODEL 'GREEN BROTHER'S PATENT’. one of the first produced (licence use number 23) after 1862 patent. Submitted for the 1864 breech loading trials. Lost out to the Snider.
Comment: A very important “Marker” serial number. This is one of the first Green patent (1862) guns.
http://www.invaluable.co.uk/auction-lot/e.m.-reilly-co,-london-a-rare-.577-percussion-c-671-c-645dde1fff

13590 - (1863?)
Name: E.M Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London.
Description: Percussion sporting rifle, double barreled express (Elephant gun) 10 bore (cal. .775), steel slightly tapered damascus round barrels, 61.40cm long
Comment: Amazing the British Museum could be so wrong…they dated this 1880’s-90’s. The address alone simply could not be 80’s-90’s.
http://collections.museumvictoria.com.au/items/373584

13599 - (1863?)
Name: E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London
Descriptions: late percussion-era, 12-bore two groove, “Express” double rifle #13599, ca. 1865-70. Superb 26” heavy barrels
Comment: With case…Label has Sanskrit lettering.
http://www.sitemason.com/page/i8qT6g

14115 - (1864?)
Name: E.M Reilly (nothing further - no photos, etc)
Descriptions: Underlever hammer double; 29 1/2" fancy damascus barrels aged brown with lots of original pattern. Very good bore with a couple of scattered pits. Best quality jones under lever action
Comment:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=528802164#PIC

14580 - (1865?)
Name: E.M. REILLY & Co. LONDON
Descriptions: 12 gauge muzzleloading shotgun serial number 14580. The side by side round barrels are 27 1⁄2 inches long and light gray in color and show some evidence of the single twist pattern
Comment:
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/pdf_datashe...2aktp0ah8dnk8d6

14985 -
Name: E.M. REILLY. & CO. OXFORD STREET. LONDON
Descriptions: Sidelock, underlever hammer gun. 16 ga, 28" matted rib damascus barrels choked cylinder and cylinder with very good bright bores having a few light pits present. The damascus barrels
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-R...m-02.4-amoskeag

15129 - (1867?) (No Paris address)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 Oxford St. London
Descriptions: 12 Bore PIn FIre Side By Side Shotgun w/ 30" bbl
Comment:
http://www.icollector.com/E-M-Reilly-Co-...rca-1_i23057034

15270 - (1868?) (first mention of Paris address; but with non-rebounding hammers) !!!!!!! First Paris address !!!!!!!!!!!
Name: E.M.Reilly and Company Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris.
Descriptions: .577 calibre double barrel hammer breech loading underlever black powder proof African dangerous big game rifle.circa 1870 #15270. non rebounding back action locks,Jones patent rotary u/lever,26"
Comment: Note that these are non-rebounding hammers; Rebounding hammers were patented by Stanton in 1867; Reilly was quick to get the latest advances into his shop. So....after the opening of Rue Scribe, before the patent of rebounding hammers? Can't be...latter in 1868, former in 1867....but it narrows it down.
http://www.gunstar.co.uk/reilly-e-m-co-double-barrel-hammer-rifle-rifles/rifles/584595

15283
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. OXFORD STREET LONDON
Descriptions: 12 ga (2 1/2"), 30" matted rib damascus barrels both choked open cylinder having bright excellent bores. The barrels have toned to a pleasing brown patina and display a strong damascus pattern displaying just a few light handling marks. The breech ends and 3/4" of the rib show nice engraving, the rib is marked "E.M. REILLY & CO. OXFORD STREET LONDON.".
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/Lovl...e-02.4-amoskeag

15356 -
Name: E M Reilly (no further info)
Descriptions: 12 gauge under lever hammer shotgun
Comment: No other info on this gun but a great answer by xxxxx on this site though!!
http://www.answers.com/Q/Where_can_you_f...on_serial_15346

15531
Name: Not mentioned in ad except for “Reilly & Co.) (no address mentioned).
Descriptions: .50 cal., 30 1/4" octagon barrel of new manufacture, utilizing the original breech. The barrel shows a nice modern plum brown with some toning on the sharp edges and a bright-face muzzle. The breech plug shows some light scroll engraving and has vibrant restored color case-hardening. The lockplate is now primarily a gray and brown patina, as is the long tang and triggerguard, buttplate and nosecap. The lock shows light loose scroll, as does the hammer, the lockplate maker marked.
Comment: Terry Buffum collection; Looks like a classic sporterized 1853 Enfield.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/Brit...n-03.4-amoskeag

15625 - (1868?)
Name: E.M. REILLY 502 NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON Branch Establishment 2 Rue Scribe Paris
Descriptions: 4 bore SxS cased hammer gun SN 15625 converted by the company in the eighteen hundreds from the original pinfire to centerfire.
Comment: George’s gun and subject to some painful back and forth-ing typical of the internet.
http://www.mylandco.com/index.php?pageid=4

15961 - (1868?)
Name: E.M. Reilly (no further descriptions)
Descriptions: 12-bore (pin-fire) double-barrelled hammer rifle.
Comment: Christies is pretty stingy with their after-sale into.
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/print_sale.aspx?saleid=8291

16341 - (1869-70?) (markers - Snider, pre-Martini; first mention of rebounding hammers) [color:#FF6666]!!!!!!! First rebounding hammers (1867) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/color]
Name: E.M.Reilly (No further descriptions in the article)
Descriptions: Began life as a .double rifle, a 577 Snider double made in 1874. It was proofed for blackpowder and marked “26.” indicating a 26-bore, or .577 caliber. It has Stanton’s rebounding hammers, and the only fully “snap Jones underleaver I have ever seen.
Comment: Terry Weiland wrote this up in Digest, 2014, p. 152; 68th edition, as a restoration project. He said it was made c1874. It might be earlier. Reason being - 17644 is the first Reilly Martini I can find and that has to be after 1871. So this Snider probably is a couple years earlier. Rebounding hammers came out in1867…this is the first Reilly I can find with them unless George’s 4 originally had them.
https://books.google.com/books?id=OoBq0q...ase&f=false

16583
Name: E. M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford Street London
Descriptions: Round, smoothbore, juxtaposed, damascened (minor defects), 8 mm. cal. barrels with a slightly hollow rib, sighted nozzle, marked "E. M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford Street London" in gold, on the lower part of the breech are various English test bench marks; fine forward spring batteries finely engraved with racemes around hunting scenes with hounds, marked "E. M. Reilly & Co." in gold; the received and the other mounts are engraved en suite; fine briarwood stock (a repair at the throw) checkered like the mouth's black horn rod; some mounts, among which the trigger guard, the safety lock (before the trigger), some screws, the firing pins' bases and the rod's locking mechanism are still blued; the butt plate is made of hard rubber, on the lower part of the stock is a silver shield.
Comment:
http://czernys.auction.fr/_fr/lot/a-case...30#.Vt-XFnhQoqY

16585 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co, Oxford Street, London and Rue Scribe Paris
Descriptions: 10ga underlever big-game gun with exposed hammers, double-triggers, finely bank-note scroll engraved with hammer safeties.
Comment: Auction said 1880’s-90’s. Has to be early 70’s unless it were refurbished.
http://www.icollector.com/10ga-underleve...is-ad_i11291628

16607 -
Name: E. M. Reilly (no addresses mentioned and no photo of the actual address on the gun)
Descriptions: Classic Snider, .577 rifle. Brass plates.
Comment: Paris address should be on this rifle.
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/threads/e-m-reilly-snider.138271/

xxxxx - (1870?) (entered the 1870 British army tests))Reilly-Comblain)
Name: E. M. REILLY & CO SOLE MANUFACTURES NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON
Descriptions: Reilly-Comblain. .577 bolt action Belgian rifle patented in 1868 which Reilly attempted to marked to the British Army as a substitute for the Snider. May have entered the 1870 trials which selected the hybrid Martini-Henry,
Comment: There are at least 5 Reilly-Comblains on the internet. One has a Paris address stamped on the butt; All the others only the Oxford St. Address. He was marketing this gun to the Army and probably didn’t want to mention Paris. I cannot find a Reilly SN on any of these rifles. They would be a marker if someone could come up with one.

1870 - Advertisement, “Bradshaw’s Pedestrian Route Book for Switzerland, Chamouni and the Italian Lakes.” 502 and 315 Oxford Street and Rue Scribe addesses. Ad mentions: "Sole manufacturers of the Reilly-Comblain rifle for military and sporting purposes."
https://books.google.com/books?id=kX4DAA...don&f=false

http://www.bruun-rasmussen.dk/search.do?...amp;mode=detail

http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/e....20-c-34a42e6b09

http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/2104#.Vr6igXhQoqY

http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Sporting%20Rifles/Reilly-Comblain/Reilly-Comblain.html

http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/e....20-c-34a42e6b09

http://www.versaillesencheres.auction.fr...07#.VrqKH3hQoqY

16765 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & Co. OXFORD STREET. LONDON & 2. RUE SCRIBE PARIS
Descriptions: 12 ga SxS shotgun. 30” Damascus barrels, 2 1/2” chambers; extractor lever. beavertail forestock. Looks like rebounding hammers.
Comment: Beautiful stock.
http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/65/lid/627

16768 -
Name: E.M. Reilly (Auctioneer’s description; no address mentioned)
Descriptions: 12 bore hammer gun; 29 1/2-inch damascus barrels with 2 1/2-inch chambers about improved cylinder borings, the rounded frame, rebounding bar lock, hammers and push forward under lever with scroll engraving
Comment: (no mention/photo of entire address on the gun)(Should have Paris address)
http://www.gavingardiner.com/bidcat/Cata...&offset=240

16808 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., London (Auctioneer’s description)
Descriptions: Double Barrel Shot Gun w/Exposed Hammers
Comment: (No mention/photo of entire address/ should have Paris)
http://www.cottoneauctions.com/lots/1097...eilly-co-london

16810 -
Name: top-rib engraved 'E.M. REILLY & CO, NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON & RUE SCRIBE PARIS
Descriptions: 12 bore, pin-fired, double shotgun with cartridge lifter. 30” Damascus barrels. 'Jones' swing under-lever opening
Comment: From the photos, non-rebounding hammers…looks like they have to be in half cock to break the gun.
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/e....49-c-a8759a5cd2

16961 - (1868?)
Name: E.M. Reilly (no further descriptions)
Descriptions: 12-bore (pin-fire) double-barrelled hammer rifle.
Comment: Christies is pretty stingy with their after-sale into.

16987 - (pre 1875)
Name: EM Reilly & Co., 502 Oxford St., London
Descriptions: double gun, muzzle-loading
Comment: Advertisement placed in the “Northern Territories Times,” Palmerston (Australia) on Saturday, August 28, 1875 re a stolen gun.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/page/549663

17204 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. NEW OXFORD STREET. LONDON & 2 RUE SCRIBE, PARIS
Descriptions: 12 bore, pin fired, rotary-underlever shotgun. Damascus barrels.
Comment: Non rebounding hammers.
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/e....00-c-36k6pjhxeb

17393 - (1871-72?)
Name: E.M. Reilly, New Oxford Street, London and 2 Rue Scribe, Paris
Descriptions: 12 bore push-forward underlever snap action hammergun, serial number 17393. It has 30" Nitro reproved bold Damascus barrels; Purdey 1863 patent doube-bite locking bolt (patent 1104 of 2nd May 1863, use number 948). sprung push-forward underlever
Comment:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=157072

17474 -
Name: “London and Paris address”
Descriptions: 12 bore Reilly hammer shotgun
Comment: “I had a similar gun (to 17393) I just consigned to Greg Martin. #17476, Purdey thumb push opener, also with the London and Paris addresses.”
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=157099

17644 - (1872-3?) (First Reilly Martini - has to be after 1871) !!!!!!!! First Reilly Martini - (note; can't be sure this is a Reilly SN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name: E.M Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London (no Paris address)
Descriptions: .577 (.450) Martini-Henry action
Comment: This is the first Reilly Martini I can find. The SN is stamped on the receiver and action and may not be his; However this gun has to be after the 1870 trials. Martini’s were made in various calibers by Reilly for 30 years. This is the only one I’ve found so far with a Reilly serial number. In the Victorian era it was common practice for Officer’s & Other Ranks of Volunteer & Militia Units to privately purchase their own weapons to supplement their limited supply of issued weapons. Privately purchased Martini Henry rifles & carbines were manufactured by quality gunsmiths using genuine Enfield manufactured parts.
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/8720/E-M-Reilly-Martini#.VrgJC3hQoqY

Here are other Reilly Martini’s, with no identified SN’s.

— See this Martini, E.M. Reilly & Co, New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris, .450, black powder, Elay 3 1/4 express.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=270014&start=20

— and this .577/.450 Reilly Martini, E M REILLY & CO, OXFORD ST, LONDON; black powder. (no Paris address)
https://www.gunsamerica.com/999425841/Martini-E-M-Reilly-577-45.htm

— .380 Martini Rook Rifle, E.M. Reilly, 315 oxford street , London.
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/r...em#.Vr6vT3hQoqY

18536
Name: Illegible
Descriptions: Also have in my rack 18536, a 20b backaction hammergun. Jones Rotary Underlever, 30" Damascus barrels, horrid replacement wood, cross bolt forend, nice bold foliate engraving. Barrels out of proof and slotted. 6094 stamped on short rib. Top rib engraving illegible.
Comment: From Toby on the board.

18547 -
Name: E.M REILLY & CO, OXFORD STREET, LONDON & RUE SCRIBE, PARIS
Descriptions: A 15-bore needle-fire double-barreled sporting gun/ Needham’s patent, SN 18547; 28 1/2in. damascus barrels
Comment:
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/e.-m.-reilly-co.,-london-a-15-bore-needle-fire-917-c-278ffce1dd

18766 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris
Descriptions: E M Reilly double rifles in .500BPE. rebounding hammers. extensively engraved, Damascus barrels
Comment: Both of my rifles have the same London and Paris addresses on the barrels. I'm interested in your source regarding the closing of the Paris "storefront" closing in 1872. Brown makes the following statement; "There was a Paris branch in the Rue Scribe certainly in the 1870s and 1880s."
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=384732

18954 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris
Descriptions: E M Reilly double rifles in .500BPE. rebounding hammers. extensively engraved, rust-blue barrels
Comment:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=384732

19953 (SN indistinct) -
Name: E.M. REILLY & Co. NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON
Descriptions: SxS 500 Express, hammer gun. 28” solid rib, case hardened steel barrels. round back action type lock
Comment: The serial number is indistinct on the multiple photographs of various parts of the gun. But it looks to belong in this era. No Paris address however.
http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/64/lid/534

20396
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. OXFORD ST. LONDON
Descriptions: 20 ga, 26" matted rib damascus barrels choked modified and cylinder with bright excellent bores. The barrels have toned to a pleasing brown patina having a strong damascus pattern. The barrels display a few light handling marks and have a small cluster of pinprick pitting on the right barrel near the muzzle. The breech ends display a light scroll engraving and the rib is maker marked "E.M. REILLY & CO. OXFORD ST. LONDON”. leather luggage style case with a brass plate on lid marked "G.F.H./ 90 LANCASTER GATE/HYDE PARK", the inside has been re-lined in a cardinal red fabric displaying E.M. Reilly manufacturing label
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Sidelever-Double-Hammergun/154-e_m-02.4-amoskeag

20808 -
Name: EM Reilly & Co., London on left and right locks, E.M. Reilly &Co. New Oxford St, London (left barrel); & Rue Scribe, Paris (right barrel)
Descriptions: Rifle, .500 (3") BPE, Rebounding hammers, two folding leaf express sights (100, 200 yds). Side lever action.
Comment: Excellent photos posted at: http://s814.photobucket.com/user/ZSkibo/slideshow/Reilly%20500%20BPE
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=384732

20396 -
Name: E. M. Reilly & Co., Oxford St., London
Descriptions: Cased 20 Gauge E. M. Reilly Sidelever Hammer Double Barrel Shotgun. Serial no. 20396. 20 gauge. 26 1/4 -inch Damascus barrels
Comment:
http://historical.ha.com/itm/shotgun/dou.../a/6073-33262.s

21098 -
Name: E. M. Reilly & Co (no photos or other info from the auctioneer)
Descriptions: 10-bore (2 1/2) bar-action hammer gun SN21098 ; Barrel length: 28” (The barrels may have been shortened.); Chambers: 2 1/2""; Chokes: IC / IC; Material: Damascus; Rib: game; Locks: bar action sidelock hammer; Operating lever: Jones under lever;
Comment: Should have the Paris address
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4559838_e-m-reilly-and-co-10-bore-2-12-bar-action-hamm

21099 -
Name: E.M.Reilly (address not mentioned
Descriptions: A fine 12 bore sidelock hammer gun
Comment:
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/print_sale.aspx?saleid=11106

21304 -
Name: E.M.Reilly & Co (no mention/photo of complete address by auctioneer)
Descriptions: .450/.500 double rifle
Comment:
https://www.gunsamerica.com/980748841/E-M-Reilly-Co-450-500-Double-Rifle.htm

21659 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London
Descriptions: 12-bore hammer gun by E.M. Reilly, no. 21339; Jones patent rotary-underlever, rebounding sidelocks, best foliate-scroll engraving, well-figured stock with recoil-pad, the damascus barrels with game-rib; 30in. barrels, both approx. I.C., 2˝in. chambers, London nitro proof
Comment:
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21659/lot/53/

21883
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co (side plates);
Descriptions: 20 ga, 25 1/2" matted rib barrels choked cylinder and cylinder with very good bores having light scattered pitting in both barrels. The barrels display a strong and lovely damascus pattern with the general surfaces toning to a pleasing brown patina, the barrel flats are marked "TATE GMKR IONE CA". The locks, frame and fences have been cleaned long displaying a bright pewter color, they display full coverage foliate scroll engraving; both sides are marked "E.M. REILLY & CO". The rebounding hammers
Comment: Terry Buffum collection; should have the Paris address; It may have been rebreed though.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Sidelock-Double-Hammer-Shotgun/1205-e_m-03.4-amoskeag

22068 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co New Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe a Paris
Descriptions: Double hunting gun, 7cm 8 cal black powder,
Comment: ŕ deux canons en table en damas étoilé mis en couleur tabac avec large bande de visée antireflet gravée E.M. Reilly & Co New Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe a Paris, avec hausse fixe et quatre feuillets gradués jusqu'ŕ 200 mčtres, épreuves de Londres sous les tonnerres, extracteur (Long. : 70 cm, cal. 8, poudre noire, chambré 80 mm, poids : 4 725 g). Platines “arričre” jaspées ŕ chien extérieur avec sűreté bleuie au demi-cran d'armé et signées E.M. Reilly & Co. Bascule avec clé anglaise. Crosse pistolet en noyer quadrillé (Long. : 37 cm), bride de renfort, pontet bronzé noir gravé du numéro de série 22068, plaque de couche en fer, longuesse quadrillée avec embout en corne.
http://www.piasa.auction.fr/_en/lot/cara...41#.Vr0MznhQoqY

22093 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co
Descriptions: 12 ga, 30" matted rib barrels choked modified and improved cylinder with bright excellent bores. This is an interesting shotgun utilizing Thomas Woodward's patent action.
Comment: Terry Buffum Collection
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Underlever-Double-Shotgun/430-e_m-02.4-amoskeag

22210 -
Name: E.M. Reilly's 502 Oxford Street
Descriptions: E.M. Reilly & Co shotgun, rebounding hammer gun with bar action locks (fine scroll engraving), non-ejector, Damascus barrels, side-lever, straight hand stock with vacant gold escutcheon, Anson push-rod fore-end jammed in place
Comment:
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30034990

22423 -
Name: E. M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford St. London & Rue Scribe, Paris
Descriptions: Cased E. M. Reilly Bar-in-Wood Hammer Double Barrel Shotgun.
Serial no. 22423. 12 gauge. 30-inch Damascus barrels with game rib; splinter fore-end with Anson release (1872).
Comment:
http://historical.ha.com/itm/shotgun/cas.../a/6119-32428.s

23172 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO., 315 OXFORD ST LONDON. & RUE SCRIBE. PARIS
Descriptions: 12 ga, External Hammer Dual Trigger Side By Side Shotgun with Extractor; The underside of the forend wood is marked “23172”. The underside of the forend metal is marked “W. ANSON / 6912 / PATENT”
Comment: 502 Oxford + Rue Scribe = pre 1881/2.
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/12696769

23574 -
Name: No mention.
Descriptions: bar-in-wood side-lever, 12-bore hammer pigeon gun with two sets of barrels, third bite and scroll engraving. Cased in leather. This was used as his go-to game gun when Cyril Adams visited the UK. 30” Steel barrels.
Comment: Should have Paris and Oxford addresses.
http://www.vintageguns.co.uk/category/guns/page/13/

23746 -
Name: E.M Reilly (no address/photo)
Descriptions: EM Reilly 36 ga black powder proofed pre 1900 back action; hammer gun
Comment: Restoration project from “British and American 410 shotguns” by Ron Gabriel (2003). He doesn’t mention markings on the gun unfortunately. He estimated the age at 1890-1910. The serial number is, however, before the close of the Paris office…thus it is at least pre-1886…possibly 1880 or thereabouts…the gun surely looks pre 1880.
https://books.google.com/books?id=PNZ0f7...gun&f=false

xxxxx - (1882-86)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxfort Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris
Descriptions: I just added this nice EM Reilly to my gun safe the other day. A gent in Texas had it for sale. 28-inch barrels, hammers are non rebounding, perfect bores, nicely engraved on the action, rib, and sight leaves, Jones under lever and heel and toe plates. Should be fun to shoot and not too difficult to come up with an accurate loa
Comment: Frustrating; beautifully cased gun but no SN, no description in the post. the label can’t be made out from the photo. But this heavy bore rifle has the 277 address (1882 on) and the Paris address (before 1886). It looks remarkably like 23746 above.
http://www.calpappas.com/2014/05/double-rifles.html

xxxxx - (1883?)
Name: E.M.Reilly & Co with London & Paris
Descriptions: Cased Cape Gun; 12 bore 30" 174 Side by side damascus barrel + rifled in .577 express cal.
Comment: Nr. 169 in the auction, Beautiful gun but frustrating lack of information. I’ve included it because of the below gun also with no SN but both the 16 Oxford Street (post 1882) and Rue Scribe (Pre 1886) dates. I have a feeling both guns belonged to the same owner and probably were purchased together.
http://gunauction.co.nz/catalogues/38.pdf

xxxxx - (1883?)
Name: E.M.Reilly & Co. 16 New Oxford Street London & Paris
Descriptions: Double barrel muzzle loading?(in a break down rifle??), percussion, hammer gun; Damascus steel 27 1/2” 8 bore SxS rifles.
Comment: The description give me some problems. It sure looks like a pin-fire to me. But those address are significant…no photos. Item 197.
http://gunauction.co.nz/catalogues/39.pdf

23853 -
Name: E M Riley & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris
Descriptions: 12 bore double barreled side by side hammer action shotgun with ornate engraving to the locks and dolphin hammers. 30” Damascus barrels.
Comment:
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auctio...f1-a54600e55727

24354
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO 315 OXFORD STREET LONDON" and the left barrel is stamped "& RUE SCRIEE PARIS COMPRESSED STEEL
Descriptions: 12 ga, 31" matted rib barrels choked improved cylinder and modified with bright near excellent bores having just a few light pits. The barrels are an overall mottled brown patina having remains of some light blue with scattered light pinprick pitting present. The breech ends display a very light geometric engraving and the
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Sidelock-Double-Hammer-Shotgun/310-e_m-02.4-amoskeag

++++++ Refer to subsequent post for SN's above 25,000 to 35650 on page 3 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++ See page 4 for list of Reilly's without SN labeled "xxxxx" + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


25161 - ??? !!!!!!!! 1885 SN with 1880 date on the case !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. 502. NEW OXFORD STREET. LONDON & RUE SCRIBE. PARIS
Descriptions: 25 1/2in. black powder only bold damascus rifled barrels. breech ends with feathered bands and single gold line, individual fore-end with Anson push rod release catch, the iron retaining much original colour-hardening; sidelever action with Purdey 1863 patent double bite, carved percussion fences, rebounding bar locks by Stanton, bar-in-wood, standing breech
Comment: This is a problematic gun for me. The gun was made for King Alphonso XII of Spain. The case is marked “shooting prize 1880”. It was supposedly given by the king as a shooting prize. But the number should be about 1884-85 date range; Yet the address is Pre 1882 - either that or Reilly continued to use his traditional 502 address rather than “16” for reasons of tradition..or the gun was made later to fit the case which was already in Spain…
http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...4&saletype=

25172 -
Name: E.M. Reilly, 575 Oxford St London (sic)
Descriptions: No details
Comment: very vague information. (Oxford Street 502? 277? 295?)
http://www.answers.com/Q/When_was_e_m_re...xford_st_London

25232 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO 502 NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON
Descriptions: E.M. Reilly shotgun, hammer gun with rebounding back-action locks (scroll engraving), Jones screw under-lever, non-ejector, twist barrels, straight hand stock with vacant escutcheon, snap fore-end (not Hackett).
Comment: 502 address. No Paris. Odd.
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30030595

25273 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO., 502, NEW OXFORD ST., LONDON
Descriptions: .450 (3 Ľ in. black powder express) rotary-underlever double-barreled hammer rifle. 28 in. (71 cm.) black powder only blued barrels; double triggers, non automatic safety and extractors. Included is a beavertail forend
Comment: 502, no Paris.
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/arms-...86-details.aspx

25460 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO 277 OXFORD STREET LONDON
Descriptions: 12 ga, 29" matted rib barrels choked full and full. London black powder proofs. Steel barrels. Box lock.
Comment: 277 address post 1882…no Paris?? First gun with a serial number and the 277 address on a rib.
https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=9943&aid=103285&lid=27390372

25516 -
Name: No name mentioned.
Descriptions: E.M Reilly & Co. 12 bore double barreled box lock, side by side ejector shotgun, 28in, barrels
Comment: first “modern” engraved side plates, very abbreviated, ending abruptly behind the breech and just ahead of the trigger guard. I’m wondering if this marks the end of E.M himself supervising operations and perhaps the ideas of H trickling in. He would be 70 years old at this point,
http://www.anthemionauction.com/bidcat/C...1&offset=-1

26218 -
Name: No address mentioned
Descriptions: 12G E.M.Reilly & Co Side by Side Double Trigger Boxlock Non Ejector. Original Case No Safety Action Automatic. 2 1/2″ 65mm Barrel Length 30” Choke True Cylinder
Comment:
Great information Argo. I'm not sure there was any question in your posts, so I'll just comment on the one I own.

My first Brit double was an E.M. Reilly 12ga hammerless boxlock extractor model I bought back in the '90s from Bob Deekins who posted it for sale here on this site. It immediately became my favorite quail gun and remains so today.

Terry Buffum, a poster here and knowledgeable about Reilly said it was a very late serial number likely built after 1900. I've always wondered whether The "maker" actually built any of the guns bearing the name or if they were products of the London trade. I don't believe anyone now knows for sure.

Congratulations on finding one that suits you. Shoot it in good health and welcome to the board...Geo
I have a 10 Bore E M Reilly double rifle 28" Damascus barrels, weight 13 pds 3 oz. Underlever hammer non rebounding hammers fully engraved. serial number 16585. Stamped on bottom of barrels EMR and on the bottom rib L1963. barrels engraved E M Reilly & Co Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris.
I also have an 8 Bore E M Reilly underlever hammer double rifle. Rebounding hammers serial number 30245. E M Reilly engraved on lock plates, no engraving on barrels, although the address could have been polished off as the damascus barrels were rebrowned in England. Border engraved, groove diameter .8354. case length 3 1/4"
Twist about 52" weight 16 pds 8.8 oz.
I don't have any real input on the subject of E.M. Reilly and co as gunmakers. I do have an interesting and useless little snippit of trivia for you though.

Reilly took over the premises of 2 rue scribe in Paris. The person who leased or rented the same address immediately previously to Reilly was an American man by the name of Adam Worth. Worth was a man of high intellect and intelligence, and he was also a master criminal wanted on both sides of the Atlantic.

This man Worth, was the person that Arthur Conan Doyle based "The Napoleon of crime" aka "Professor Moriarty" on in his Sherlock Holmes stories. It is believed Worth used the premises as a casino and front for his crimes.

Told you it was trivia, but there you go.
Gary, I got your 16585 - see above and a link to your post. I didn't have the 30245...It should be after Rue Scribe closed (1886) and before 16 Oxford Street Closed (1898); it could have had either the 16 or 277 Oxford street address. Since it's midway between 26584 (last number I can find with the Paris address - 1886) and 34723 (last number I can find with the 16 Oxford Street address - 1898)...say 1892 manufacture date?

I'm pretty sure Reilly placed no Reilly serial numbers on guns that were not at least ordered through him although he did put his name on guns he sold. I can base this on a Winchester he sold, a Sharpes, the Comblains and a couple of other examples. There is a unity in his stocks, engraving, and general feel that would indicate that if he didn't make them himself, he sure exercised strict quality control over the product. I'm inclined to think that at the very least he finished everything in his building.

Oh I've found an engraved bayonette and an engraved sword with his name on it.

Bonny, great bit of trivia. I actually researched the supposed Reilly shop in St. Honore in Paris (I speak French and have a French wife)...Paris - heck Europe - is full of these stories and this one was apt.
George, I got you gun as well 35472 - check it out above. It is after 35423, the first gun I can find with 295 Oxford Street on it....i.e. 1903/4. So Your's must have had the 295 Oxford address on it....likely 1904? Note: I found a later serial number.. But I sort of quit looking after 1904. The Rileys from 1917 on seem to have added a digit in front of their numbers...they are 6 digit numbers,

I've kept all the pictures I can find for comparisons and have linked each serial number with the site where I found it. If anyone wants to do more researh - look at the photos attached to those sites - you'll be impressed with their beauty and elegance.)
Might as well share one more bit of info. There is a site which is searching for missing guns which were made as pairs. They have all sorts of makers...Churchill, Holland and Holland (really a who's who of English gun makers). They posted these serial number for Reilly's (I believe Riley is a misspelling - they look like E.M Reilly SN's). So at least these guns likely had a mate.

http://www.matchedpairs.com/seeking_list.php

Reilly
27785, 27786, 27787, 33859, 231559 (probably 31559), 33915, 535521 (probably 35521), (1st three guns look like triples)

Riley
1832, 24956, 25723, 27854, 30364, 30486, 32941, 33240, 33265, 33889, 35134, 35156, 35350, 35572, 35631,
Well done on the research Argo44. I too am a veteran, British Army.

I often toddle off to the British Library to look up old shooting journals such The Field, Arms & Explosives, The Sporting Goods Review. Let me know if you'd like me to look up any particular issue.

Tim
Welcome to the board, Argo. It is not often that a new poster comes along with as much information to offer as you have. Well done. No one is an expert on all makes of guns, but you are to be well into the learning curve with the Reillys.

Thank you for your career of service to our country, and for the information posted here. Let us know of your first blood with the Reilly. Greg (gjw) starts a "hunting pictures thread" here each fall..........a good place to put them.

All my best, SRH
Looks like you have spent some time on research; excellent work. Ever thought of putting it all in to book form? Reilly guns were sometimes forged as I acquired one once. I knew what was and was given it. Totally un-restorable and nothing like the work turned out by Reilly himself although it might have fooled a blind man. I de-activated it as a wall-piece for someone. May have a photo somewhere on file.

Still slightly in shock about the pump action at a game shoot. Welcome to the board. Lagopus.....
Argo44, I sold 35079 a few years back but checked my listing and the address was 277 Oxford Street.
However the proof marks showed the gun was probably PROOFED pre-1896 so maybe made for stock and then finished and numbered accordingly.
Also have in my rack 18536, a 20b backaction hammergun. Jones Rotary Underlever, 30" Damascus barrels, horrid replacement wood, cross bolt forend, nice bold foliate engraving. Barrels out of proof and slotted. 6094 stamped on short rib. Top rib engraving illegible.
Congratulations for having put this information together.
==================================================================================================
35079 (1900)



Thanks Toby - I've fixed 35079 on the list. It's interesting that the barrels were proofed pre-1896; Per the serial number you'd think it should have been numbered/finished about 1901-02 or so, depending on how many guns Reilly was selling (per a later post below, it looks as if he were selling about 130 per year from 1898-1903). If Reilly stockpiled barrels and actions, maybe that was how they were able to respond to orders with alacrity.

I also wonder if Reilly started falling on hard times about this time. EM had died and he was highly respected apparently and quite a marketing genius. There are a number of SN's in the 35000's per above which were matched pair double-guns, which would seem to indicate not everything was going right (did Reilly's sons start pillaging its stocks to create "matched pairs?).

Sales of numbered guns had declined from an average of 650/year to 130/yr. And I can't find any number above 35631 (listed as a matched pair above)(was this a sale? two for the price of one?).

Well, the industry was changing; it must have been hard to compete with the factories. Damascus barrels were oh so 19th century. (and there was a smear campaign being waged against them which continues to this day). A way of life was ending.

I also added 18536 to the list.
Argo thanks a lot for your information, excellent work! My 8 Bore Reilly double rifle looks almost exactly the same as the large Manton 8 Bore double rifles. Did Reilly buy his guns unfinished then finish them or were they bought from a sourch like W C Scott? I have read that some people thought Reilly was not a "gunmaker" but just a retailer.
==================================================================================================
30295. (1888)


Gary, re your 8 bore (30295), there are a lot of rifled guns posted in the list of serial numbers (17343, 18766, 18954, 20808, 21305 ...27847, 28861, 30791..etc.). I've included links...most of those have photos. Click on them and compare. Check out especially 26733, an 8 bore restoration project I believe. (I just checked the link...it's just a question with no photos.check some of the other big guns..). Also I think I included a couple of guns that were in a New Zealand auction...without serial numbers. One had a 12 ga shotgun barrel coupled with a Rifle barrel.

A lot of ink has been spilled on whether Reilly's made their own guns. After playing around with this for a while...and I am not an expert....using logic, I think they did. They did not put serial numbers on guns they were only marketing though they would put their names. And there is a unity to what they produced. they may have ordered components and assembled them - certainly that Martini with the Reilly Serial Number 17xxx used Enfield parts but they were put together by Reilly. (There are makers today redoing 1911 .45's and using their own names).

And somewhere I saw a picture of his building at 502 Oxford Street. I can't find it at the moment but it was a substantial 4 story building, far larger than you'd need to just conduct a business. (the picture is an engraving off an early label and I'm wrong...I don't think you could set up lathes and woodworking equipment in that building) . JC and EM always identified themselves as "gun makers" (or "gun manufacturers") and in one census claimed to have 300 employees. That building could have housed a couple of hundred I'd think.

Unless someone with access to the Royal Museum and libraries (trw999 ???) can do some more digging that's about the extent of what I can say. It's just a feeling but the guns that came out of his building had a certain flavor (I looked at 100's of photos over the past couple of months) (and if you want to have fun and really be energized...click on those links) and whether he founded and welded the damascus barrels himself is sort of like asking if Jeep really did build the carburetors for their vehicles in Toledo, Ohio; and in fact I'm wondering if substantial firms like Holland and Holland had their own foundries - logic and economics says they couldn't and didn't - or if they ordered barrels then put them together. (I'm getting way out of my depth here and will defer to people who know).

One more thought, Reilly stocks were always interesting and he used a lot of French wood apparently...this was commented on regularly long before others started use interestingly veined woods.. My gun is an example.
Argo, I looked at the proof marks on my 8 Bore double rifle and they are London marks. Reilly could have made his own guns at that time, but my rifle looks almost identical to the Holland 8 Bores and Manton 8 Bores. A lot of the Holland rifles of that period (before 1893 when Holland built their factory) were made by W & C Scott. Holland or Reilly might have bought partially finished guns and finished them in their London facilities. Roberts (an out source stocker) also did a lot of stocking for Hollands and the trade. By the way, I am selling the 10 Bore Reilly double rifle to a good friend. The quality of that rifle is equal to any Purdey or Holland that I have owned. Thanks again Argo, and for your military service!
I've updated a few things.

-- An advertisement in Bell's Life in London and Sporting Chronicle London, England
13 Jun 1841: JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY, GUN-MAKER. 316, High Holborn, London, respectfully informs gentlemen that his stock will be found to comprise the best assortment in London, double and single fowling pieces ; double and single rifles, double guns, with one barrel

-- Found advertisements for Reilly air guns dated 1845.

-- Advertisements for Reilly's from 1858 (proving he used the 502 Oxford St. Address) to1868 (with gold medals from the 1867 Parish exhibition - proving he opened 2 Scribe in at least early 1868)
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/E._M._Reilly_and_Co

-- a law suit relating to 277 Oxford Street in 1889 which seems to indicate Edward was still vital and in charge,

-- and some beautiful guns made by Joseph... including some muzzle loading pistols which show early-on the Reilly feel..and may even have serial numbers relating to the long guns.

Click on #3329 I just added made by Joseph Reilly - that is a quintessential Reilly gun in a very early state...look at the wood in the stocks, the outline and engraving. Look at those barrels...they could be the same as mine in my 1898 gun!!. " An apple doesn't fall far from its tree." This has to be a "date marker" gun..it is just (in 2000 newspeak) "so so Reilly".
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22403/lot/5482/

Also on this 1830's double gun by Joseph Reilly I've added above - no SN.. - now that is a double gun in a state that would rival any of the big 5!! Same comment on the barrels.
https://www.barnebys.com/auctions/lot/32...charles-reilly/

I'm not interested in the hand guns but here are two made by Joseph Reilly that may be apt - the early hand guns may have followed the Reilly numbering system - check out the workmanship and engraving,

1292
http://www.garthvincent.com/antique/1597/a+miniature+pocket+pistol/
A Miniature 120-Bore Box-Lock Percussion Pocket Pistol By Reilly of London, Circa 1850. (comment: that date is surely wrong by 25 years at least)

xxxx
http://www.aaawt.com/html/firearms/f296.html
This .50 caliber pistol with a 10-inch octagonal barrel measures 15-inches in overall length.

Also Wikipedia has interesting comments on pin-fire breech loaders. They give credit to Hodges for introducing the French system to a Franco-phobic England after 1851 and mentioned Reilly but we've shown that Reilly was exhibiting breechloaders at the 1851 fair.
==================================================================================================
1847 - Reilly and the 5000 SN gap


I've looked at a lot of JC and EM Reilly pistols. There are a number of pistols labeled JC Reilly using variations of the Holborn address and Reilly using variations of the Oxford Street address. The early ones are percussion pistols..later ones included double-barrel, four barrel, pepper-boxes, and revolvers of various types. Some have Birmingham proof marks; others are clearly marketed from Tanter or Colt, even Smith and Wesson.

Most have no Reilly serial numbers (even when coupled with the Holborn or Oxford Street addresses). But a couple do...and they are so evidently early JC Reilly, Holborn manufacture and they seem to fit so well into the serial number narrative that it may be that some pistols were indeed numbered and were included in the very early Reilly serial number chronology,

One of the most important pairs with a very early 3 digit serial number 176 - if these pistols followed the long-gun Reilly format for numbering - and they look very much like it should be so - was just sold by Terry Buffum. In fact, of the three of four SN's with "Holborn Bars" imprinted on them when he was at 12 Middle row, 1814-1835), three are pistols. Did did Reilly really start out making mostly pistols?

I've added a couple above...with the designation "pistol" so that it will be clear. There are markers for these early Reilly pistols...rounded butts, engraving etc.

And there is a significant gap between the last Holborn address/serial number (3329 - 1847 at the latest) and the first confirmed Oxford Street address (SN 8463 - 1847 at the earliest- and which has "Removed from Holborn" in the label on the case). It seems to me that EM and JC Reilly would be unlikely to continue to use "removed from Holborn" for more than a couple of years after the move.

This gap needs more data to investigate why this happened. At least one writer asserted that EM took over JC's numbering system upon transfer to Oxford Street about SN 8400, which may mean Edward just jumped up the queue by 5,000 numbers, maybe to make the firm look more substantial or to distance himself from Guns JC made which were not numbered.


There are "mystery" percussion rifles and shotguns out there with the Reilly name and the Oxford Street address but with no reported serial numbers. (the pistols at least by 1847 don't have serial numbers worth looking into). Surely there are guns that could solve this "Bermuda Triangle" gap of some 5,000 "missing" serial numbers... i.e. 1847 - 1855 plus or minus. this could have huge repercussions on dating...i.e. 84** numbers move back from 1855 to 1847-50 time frame.
There's a power of work so far there - a decent DGJ article - or series - or even, nearly, a book's worth. Well done!
I haven't seen many Reilly's, but of those I have seen, they've all been very high quality guns.
As I add serial numbers, looks like I've run out of allowed space on the comment; it's knocking serial numbers off the bottom of the list. I'll repost Serial numbers after 25,000 here (SN 25,000 should be around 1884-1885 assuming 650 SN guns per year being made at the time): (!!!!!!!!!!!!! = date marker serial numbers)

++++++ Continuation of previous post for SN's 162 to 25161 on page 1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++ See page 4 for list of Reilly's without SN labeled "xxxxx" + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



25161 - ??? !!!!!!!! 1885 SN with 1880 date on the case !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. 502. NEW OXFORD STREET. LONDON & RUE SCRIBE. PARIS
Descriptions: 25 1/2in. black powder only bold damascus rifled barrels. breech ends with feathered bands and single gold line, individual fore-end with Anson push rod release catch, the iron retaining much original colour-hardening; sidelever action with Purdey 1863 patent double bite, carved percussion fences, rebounding bar locks by Stanton, bar-in-wood, standing breech
Comment: This is a problematic gun for me. The gun was made for King Alphonso XII of Spain. The case is marked “shooting prize 1880”. It was supposedly given by the king as a shooting prize. But the number should be about 1884-85 date range; Yet the address is Pre 1882 - either that or Reilly continued to use his traditional 502 address rather than “16” for reasons of tradition..or the gun was made later to fit the case which was already in Spain…
http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...4&saletype=

25172 -
Name: E.M. Reilly, 575 Oxford St London (sic)
Descriptions: No details
Comment: very vague information. (Oxford Street 502? 277? 295?)
http://www.answers.com/Q/When_was_e_m_re...xford_st_London

25232 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO 502 NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON
Descriptions: E.M. Reilly shotgun, hammer gun with rebounding back-action locks (scroll engraving), Jones screw under-lever, non-ejector, twist barrels, straight hand stock with vacant escutcheon, snap fore-end (not Hackett).
Comment: 502 address. No Paris. Odd.
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30030595

25273 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO., 502, NEW OXFORD ST., LONDON
Descriptions: .450 (3 Ľ in. black powder express) rotary-underlever double-barreled hammer rifle. 28 in. (71 cm.) black powder only blued barrels; double triggers, non automatic safety and extractors. Included is a beavertail forend
Comment: 502, no Paris.
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/arms-...86-details.aspx

25460 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO 277 OXFORD STREET LONDON
Descriptions: 12 ga, 29" matted rib barrels choked full and full. London black powder proofs. Steel barrels. Box lock.
Comment: 277 address post 1882…no Paris?? First gun with a serial number and the 277 address on a rib.
https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=9943&aid=103285&lid=27390372

25516 -
Name: No name mentioned.
Descriptions: E.M Reilly & Co. 12 bore double barreled box lock, side by side ejector shotgun, 28in, barrels
Comment: first “modern” engraved side plates, very abbreviated, ending abruptly behind the breech and just ahead of the trigger guard. I’m wondering if this marks the end of E.M himself supervising operations and perhaps the ideas of H trickling in. He would be 70 years old at this point,
http://www.anthemionauction.com/bidcat/C...1&offset=-1

26218 -
Name: No address mentioned
Descriptions: 12G E.M.Reilly & Co Side by Side Double Trigger Boxlock Non Ejector. Original Case No Safety Action Automatic. 2 1/2″ 65mm Barrel Length 30” Choke True Cylinder
Comment:
www.aaronwheelergunsmith.co.uk/product/e...h.CWlOUkU9.dpuf

26584 - (1886) !!!!!!!!!!! Last SN w/both London & Paris !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name: Label on case…EM REILLY & CO. 16, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON,
Branch Establishment, Rue Scribe, Paris.
Descriptions: This is an original case with an original label. Handwritten on the label is “26584” and the date “1886”
Comment: Could this be a fake, perhaps an old case with a new label? The case and label look real. If so, 16 Oxford Street = post 1881/2….Paris address = 1886 max. Thus, this SN gun mentioned on the label may be the last gun EM made before the Paris office closed. And why did the Paris office close? EM was 70 years old…he had to be declining at this point.

26733 -
Name: E.M. Reilly (no full address mentioned?)
Descriptions: 8 bore fully rifled barrel, crystal indicator, hammerless, E.M. REILLY
Comment:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=270014&start=20

26957 -
Name: E. M. REILLY & CO. 16 NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON
Descriptions: Sir John Scott’s E.M Reilly & Co 8-bore (82mm) single-barreled rotary-underlever hammergun, serial no 26957, 36 1/8in. nitro reproved fine damascus barrel, octagonal breech. ones patent rotary underlever, carved percussion fence, rebounding back-action lock,
Comment: Note- 16 New Oxford Street, no Paris address.
http://www.thefield.co.uk/country-house/...olts-sale-26358

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/fullcatalogue.asp?salelot=A1214+++1592+&refno=

27570 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & OXFORD STREET LONDON & PARIS
Descriptions: 16 ga, 29" solid rib damascus barrels choked cylinder and cylinder with bright excellent bores. The barrels show a lovely damascus pattern, the surfaces have toned to a pleasing brown patina having some added lacquer varnish throughout. The rib displays a small scroll engraving
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Sidelock-Double-Hammer-Shotgun/631-e_m-02.4-amoskeag

27687 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. (address not mentioned)
Descriptions: 20-BORE HAMMER GUN, NO. 27687; 26-inch barrels with 2 1/2-inch chambers, about improved cylinder and 1/4 choke borings, full length file-cut rib, the frame, non re-bounding backlocks, hammers and rotary underlever with lined border engraving, 14 1/2-inch figured stock with pistol grip, sling eyes, 7lb. 4oz., nitro proof, bores pitted. Possibly converted from a rifle
Comment:
http://www.gavingardiner.com/bidcat/Cata...&offset=240

27847 -
Name: Not mentioned
Descriptions: 450 bore express. under-lever ejection, rebounding hammers.
Comment:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=270014

2804? -
Name: Not mentioned
Descriptions: Began life as a single shot rifle and was sleeved to a 410 with permanent low temperature Timken 4140 CV, Ken Eister tested 28” 1/2 Octagon 1/2 round single trigger ejector splinter forearm.
Comment: Serial number from photo; last digit unclear.
http://www.stevebarnettfineguns.com/asp-bin/Detail.asp?ID=9415#

286xx -
Name: E. M. REILLY (Address not mentioned or photographed
Descriptions: E.M. Reilly side by side, side-locks; caliber: 12/65; Stock length: 36.5 cm; Barrel length: 71 cm; Chokes 1/2, 1/4
Comment:
http://www.jachtspeciaalzaak.nl/index.php/en/2014-08-10-17-51-37/hagelgeweren/e.m.reilly-detail

28861 -
Name: E. M. REILLY & CO.  277 OXFORD STREET. LONDON
Descriptions: 2-bore top-lever hammergun with 30" nitro reproved damascus barrels, Treble-grip action with carved percussion fences, rebounding locks
Comment: Both 16 Oxford Street and 277 Oxford Street were still open. Paris had closed
http://josephsvintageguns.com/gun-details.asp?gun=323

30166 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 10 New Oxford Street, London *(probably16).
Descriptions: 12 bore hammer shotgun, Damascus barrels, rebounding hamers.
Comment:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...6662f0f6382a0a3

30207
Name: E.M REILLY & CO. 277 OXFORD STREET. LONDON. IMPROVED PATENT.
Descriptions: 10 ga, 32 1/4" matted rib damascus barrels having very good bright bores having some light fouling present. The barrels display a nice damascus pattern that is slightly thinning, the remaining surfaces have toned to a pleasing brown patina having a few light specks of pin prick pitting. The breech ends are lightly engraved in a geometric engraving, the dolls head extension is engraved in a light foliate scroll engraving and the rib is marked "E.M REILLY & CO. 277 OXFORD STREET. LONDON. IMPROVED PATENT."
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Boxlock-Double-Barrel-Shotgun/151-e_m-02.4-amoskeag

30245 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London
Descriptions: 8 bore hammer underlever. With 24 Ľ in. (61.6 cm.) rebrowned twist black powder only barrels, action with carved fences and doll's head extension, rebounding back-action locks, figured 14 in. pistolgrip stock including extension, weight 16 lbs. 8 ľ oz
Comment:
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auctio...sti10298?page=3

30257 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., no address
Descriptions: Boxlock 12 ga. shotgun, double trigger; Damascus 30” barrels; 2 1/2 chambers; Gold inlay, old-inlaid 'S' detail, border and acanthus scroll engraving, beautiful engaving.
Comment: No Paris address = post 1886; 16 Oxford Street - pre 1898.
https://www.guntrader.uk/Guns-For-Sale/E-M-Reilly-Co-London_Shotgun_For-Sale_140509105318001

30260 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. 16 NEW OXFORD STREET. LONDON
Descriptions: 12 bore, boxlock, double triggers, 30” Steel barrels. Reproofed 2 3/4. Gold inlay. old-inlaid 'S' detail, border and acanthus scroll engraving,
Comment: The engraving and layout of 257 and 260 are so identical that one must think they are a pair, the only difference being the barrels.
http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...7&saletype=

30436 -
Name: Not mentioned in ad
Descriptions: 380 Single-barreled percussion Park Rifle by Reilly, Item No. 10619, an unusual W.W. Greener 12-bore boxlock ejector gun
Comment: Christies as usual stingy with their info; no photo
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/print_sale.aspx?saleid=10537

30456 -
Name: Not mentioned in Terry’s article
Descriptions: 12 gauge, double trigger, 30” damascus barrels.
Comment: Terry Weiland restoration project, Gun Digest, 2014, p.152; the set up and engraving look very much like 30260 ad 30257 except it isn’t gold.
https://books.google.com/books?id=xaQtAA...ers&f=false

30791 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford St, London
Descriptions: .380, 2 1/4” BP Express; 28” SxS barrels with full flat matted rib, fine bead front sight, and four folding express sights
Comment: Engraving, layout similar to the “modern group” 30257, 30260, 30456.
http://www.hallowellco.com/double.htm

30846 -
Name: E.M Reilly - rest not mentioned in the ad.
Descriptions: 450 BPE, 28” steel barrels, double gun, double triggers.
Comment: “modern” group side plates
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/108/385.h...paign=108Eblast

32665 -
Name: E. M. Reilly (full address not mentioned in either ad)
Descriptions: 12 gauge. Shortened 29 3/4-inch Damascus barrels. Game rib with locking doll's head. Case-hardened boxlock action, fully engraved with fine foliate scroll. Ejectors. Automatic safety. Checkered straight stock of dark figured walnut. Later sold again and described as: 12-bore boxlock SxS sporting gun circa 1912, serial number 32665; case-hardened action fully engraved with fine foliate scroll, checkered straight stock of dark figured walnut with vacant silver oval and thick horn buttplate, checkered splinter forend with Anson release, ejectors, automatic safety, game rib with locking doll's head, shortened Damascus barrels choked Improved cylinders
Comment: “modern” side plates.
http://www.collectorebooks.com/gregg01/shotgun3/lot-748-.htm

http://www.charltonhallauctions.com/auction-lot-detail/E.M.-Reilly-12-bore-boxlock-SxS-sporting-gun-***Subject-to-S&salelot=256++++++++5+&refno=+++72988


32667 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON.”
Descriptions: 12 ga, 30" damacus barrels choked about modified and full with bright bores having a few very light pits on the right barrel. The barrels display a strong and lovely damascus pattern and have toned to a pleasing brown patina having a small ding on the right barrel 7" from the muzzle. The top of the rib near the breech face is lightly engraved and the rib is marked.
Comment: Terry Buffum Collection
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Boxlock-Double-Ejector-Gun/656-e_m-02.4-amoskeag

32974
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.
Descriptions: 12 ga, 30" matted rib barrels choked cylinder and cylinder with very good lightly pitted bores. The barrels retain 98% of their professional re-applied blue finish. The left barrel is marked "E.M. REILLY & CO (BALL & SHOT GUN)" and the right barrel is marked "16 NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON". The Anson & Deeley's boxlock frame has toned to a dull gray patina frame is embellished in a filigree scroll engraving having about 85% coverage, both sides are marked "E.M. REILLY & CO LONDON".
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Boxlock-Double-Shotgun/1338-e_m-03.4-amoskeag

33858 -
Name: E.M. Reilly (full address not mentioned in ad or in photo.
Descriptions: 12 bore, SxS, double trigger, box lock shotgun. 28” steel barrels
Comment: “Traditional” side plates.
http://www.rwardgunmakers.com/guns/33858-e-m-reilly.htm

33922 -
Name: E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned in ad or photo)
Descriptions: 30-inch damascus barrels with 2 1/2-inch chambers, about improved cylinder and full choke boring, doll’s head extension, the frame, back action bar lock and top lever with bouquet and scroll engraving
Comment:
http://www.gavingardiner.com/bidcat/detail.asp?SaleRef=0015&LotRef=180

33950 -
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. 16. NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON
Descriptions: side lock SxS ejector Serial# 33950; It has nitro proofed fluid steel barrels & 2 1/2" chambers
Comment:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=283480

34164 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Rd., London
Descriptions: 12 ga, SxS shotgun.
Comment: No photo or additional info
http://www.justanswer.com/firearms/5w9gj...blebarrell.html

34247
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO. 16 NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON
Descriptions: 12 ga (2 1/2"), 30 1/4" matted rib barrels choked modified and cylinder with bright excellent bores. The barrels display a stunning damascus pattern with the overall surfaces toning to a pleasing brown patina. The breech ends are engraved in a nice geometric engraving and the rib displays wedges of open scroll, the rib is marked "E.M. REILLY & CO. 16 NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON". The gun features double triggers, automatic safety and ejectors.
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/EM-Reilly-Boxlock-Double-Ejectorgun/155-e_m-02.4-amoskeag

34478 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co. (full address not mentioned in ad or photo - case label indecipherable)
Descriptions: boxlock ejector shotgun no. 34478. 30” x 2 1⁄2 “ Damascus barrels (nitro proofed). 15” stock with leather butt pad. In its carrying case.
Comment: “Modern” side plates.
http://www.welsharms.co.uk/cats/Welsharms%20Catalogue%20-%2019th%20April%202015.pdf

https://www.guntrader.uk/Guns-For-Sale/EMReilly-Co-London_Shotgun_-_For-Sale_150428134631001

34523 -
Name: E.M. Reilly (full address not mentioned in ad - no photo)
Descriptions: side by side, 12 ga. x 2 3/4 shotgun, box lock, 30 in. barrel, checkered grip and fore end
Comment:
http://www.maynards.com/media/components/ams/events/AAKNE100513/AntiquesCatalog.pdf


34221
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London. (E.M. Reilly & Co, 315 Oxford Street, London (case). (re the case label, this is16 years after 315 Oxford street was renumbered; the label may be a reproduction).
Descriptions: 16 bore x 450 No. 2 Musket, 29 3/4" barrels with very good bores. This is an interesting set of guns which feature seven leaf express sights and are on the plainer side, being working guns. The actions and back action locks show only light border engraving. The barrels are each engraved with the 16 New Oxford Street address. The guns feature rebounding hammers and full pistolgrip walnut stocks.
Comment: Terry Buffum collection ; one of a pair, see below.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/Case...y-02.4-amoskeag

34222
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London. (E.M. Reilly & Co, 315 Oxford Street, London (case). (re the case label, this is16 years after 315 Oxford street was renumbered; the label may be a reproduction).
Descriptions: 16 bore x 450 No. 2 Musket, 29 3/4" barrels with very good bores. This is an interesting set of guns which feature seven leaf express sights and are on the plainer side, being working guns. The actions and back action locks show only light border engraving. The barrels are each engraved with the 16 New Oxford Street address. The guns feature rebounding hammers and full pistolgrip walnut stocks.
Comment: Terry Buffum collection; one of a pair, see above
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/Case...y-02.4-amoskeag

34572 -
Name: E.M Reilly & Co. (full address not mentioned in ad or photos)
Descriptions: E.M. Reilly & Co. 12 g. BEST Side lock ejector with 30” Damascus barrels; 2 1/2 chamber.
Comment: Classic side panels.
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100601796

34582 -
Name: E.M. Reilly (no address mentioned in ad or photo)
Descriptions: 12 guage, SxS, double trigger, hammer-gun, 28” steel barrels. bar action rebounding locks. Fully engraved . The barrels were sleeved in 1986
Comment:
http://www.heritageguns.net/guns.php?id=506

34723 - (1898?) !!!!!!!!!Last SN with 16 Oxford St!!!!!!!!!!!!! (My gun)
Name: E.M Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London
Descriptions: 12 gauge, SxS, shotgun; 30” Damascus barrels, rebounding hammers. Author’s gun.
Comment: This may be one of the last Reilly’s made or sold at the 16 New Oxford street address. Can find no later examples.

34865 -
Name: E.M Reilly & Co., 277 New Oxford St. London (photos are hazy but pretty sure)
Descriptions: A best E M Reilly , London 12 bore boxlock ejector (BLE) side by side shotgun , double triggers , chequered straight hand figured walnut stock with teardrops , matched extension , vacant silver lozenge and chequered butt . The action , tang , top lever, flat rib , trigger guard and push - rod mount decorated with fine border and foliate scroll engraving . 30" nitro proof steel barrels with doll's head extension and 2 3/4" chambers.
Comment:
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auctio...9a-a44a00e4518e

35079 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned/photogaphed)
Descriptions: 12bore, SLE, 30” Damascus barrels, 2 3/4 Notro Proof. 3/4” leather recoil pad. Southgate's back action sidelock design and features: Back action 9 pin locks with interceptor sears, Top lever operating a Mills 3rd bite and a Purdey Bolt by way of a Scott Spindle, Double triggers bolted by an automatic top tang safety slide, Southgate ejectors tripped by sprung plates rocking in the bar of action and Anson's push rod forend c
Comment: Traditional side plates. Beautiful photos but noting on the address.
http://www.heritageguns.co.uk/back-catalogue.htm

35423 - (1904?) !!!!!!!!First SN with 295 Oxford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co" , 295 Oxford Street in London
Descriptions: Box Lock ejector, #2 of a pair. 30" barrels, 2 1/2" chambers and is nitro proofed, steel barrels.
Comment: “modern” side plates. First SN confirmed with th 295 Oxford address. The Reilly’s moved from 277 to 294 in 1903.
http://stonehengearms.co.uk/shotguns/

35458 -
Name: E. M. Reilly & Co (address not mentioned in ad)
Descriptions: SxS 12 bore Shotgun, boxlock (ejector A/F), double trigger, steel barrels
Comment:
http://www.brightwells.com/AntiquesAndFi...istChangePage=2

35472 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.
Descriptions: boxlock is numbered 35472. Terry Buffum told me in 2003 that it was the highest number he'd noted in his research, and that it likely dated to the early 1900s
Comment: My gun's a 'sleever' so it has no address on the rib
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=283480

35493 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co. BARRELS BY ELDERKIN & SON (GUN MAKERS) LTD SPALDING
Descriptions: serial #35493, 16 ga, 28" matted rib barrels both choked improved cylinder with bright excellent bores. The barrels retain 95% of its professionally reapplied blue finish having loss on the high edges of the rib and a few light handling marks. The top of the rib is marked "BARRELS BY ELDERKIN & SON (GUN MAKERS) LTD SPALDING". Terry Buffum .
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=9943&aid=103285&lid=27390499

35551 -
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co,m 295 Oxford Street, London
Descriptions: A .300 hammer rook-rifle by E.M. Reilly & Co., no. 35551/2959
Sidelever, rebounding hammer, the sides of the action-body with the makers name engraved in a scrolling banner surrounded by bold foliate-scrollwork, much blued finish, figured stock with semi-pistol grip, horn-capped forend, the octagonal barrel, engraved E.M. Reilly & Co., 295 Oxford St., London, with open-sights, sighted for 50, 100 and 150 yards, and bead-foresight
Comment:
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/17946/lot/42/

35678 -
Name: E.M. Reilly (no address mentioned in ad)
Descriptions: E.M. Reilly 12-bore boxlock side by side sporting gun [double barrel hammerless shotgun, 12 gauge] circa 1905, serial number 35678; case-hardened action..
Comment: “Modern” highly engrave side plates.
http://www.prices4antiques.com/Shotgun-Reilly-EM-12-Gauge-Box-Lock-Side-by-Side-E8953320.html
Typo error above. 35482 should be 34582

Sequence is correct
Thanks Terry - fixed. I'll add more of your Reilly's after the April sale when I can look at the SN's and details.

And looking at the matched set of pistols you sold, SN 176...I can't help but think these were actually a couple of the very earliest JC Reilly's. Pistol SN's for Reilly are problematic but...these look appropriate. Did both pistols have the same SN?
J.C. Reilly gets play in a recent French Novel.. at least his air-guns did.... "Le Coiffeur de Chateaubriand", 2010 ( text below without the French diacritical marks)

"Le Page commande les siennes a Longera; l'adresse de son fournisseur est écrite en letters d'or dans la feutrine de la boite élégante que j veins d'apporter a la maison: "Joseph Charles Reilly -- 316, Higl Holborn." Ma decision est prse. Reste a ne pas rate ma cible. Il doit mourir sans que je puisse ętre inquičte."

Translation more or less. Page (the store) ordered these from London. The address of the suppliers was written in gold letters on the elegant gun case which I had just carried home. "Joseph Charles Reilly - 316 High Holborn." My decision was taken. Unless I missed my target. He must die before I could be at peace.

https://books.google.com/books?id=xf2rBg...and&f=false
For what it's worth, I became curious about the buildings occupied by the Reilly firm:
12 Chancery Lane (near High Holborn)
316 High Holborn
502 (now16) New Oxford street
315 (now 277) Oxford Street
295 Oxford Street
2 rue Scribe, Paris.
13 High Street, Marylebone

There are prints of the building at 502 Oxford Street on early 1850's Reilly labels. I checked them out on Map.google. All of these buildings are apparently still standing with theexception of Chancery Lane which was knocked down in about 1870 to improve traffic flow. And they are impressive. Google will even take you into the lobby/bar/office of some of them. These were not "fly by night" premises.
My E.M. Reilly is a 4 gauge hammer double with 36 inch Damascus Barrels that came to me in it's original leather trunk case with the label "E.M. REILLY 502 NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON BRANCH ESTABLISHMENT 2 RUE SCRIBE PARIS" It originally made as a pinfire but converted long ago to centerfire. It weighs in a 28 pounds. SN is 15625. What year would you estimate that it was made?

Best Regards, George
==================================================================================================
15625 (1869)

EDIT: with a new start number for rue scribe 14983 and the new closure date for rue Scribe July 1885, the date for George's gun is bumped up to early 1869.

George, I got your gun, it's in the list above (check it out chronologically by serial number), and I followed all the comments on it (some of those comments are pretty bitter..typical internet) and looked it up on your site when I started looking into Reilly's in January.. I can be almost 100% sure it was serial numbered in 1868 - quite possibly in September or October.

Any serial number from about 15250 to 15750 should be 1868 and have the Paris address - at least on the label - that was a prestige thing and his advertisements at the time featured the gold medals won at the Paris exhibition). Here is the analysis:

-- 15270 is the first mention of the Paris address on a gun rib that I've found so far making it early 1868 - (he opened Rue Scribe after his huge success at the Paris exhibition held in Summer 1867 sometime in late January - early February 1868). As confirmation 15270 has non-rebounding hammers (rebounding hammers were patented 1867 and started to appear on Reillys shortly thereafter)...so I reckon anything after this serial number is 1868 or later.

From 1868-1886 I estimated he was making 640 numbered guns per year on average. - for argument's sake since the demand obviously built from 440 produced in the previous period..say add 500 per year for this period of the Reilly history.

-- 17644 (assuming this is a Reilly number and it may not be) is the first Reilly Martini with a serial number which has to be after it was trialed and adopted for the Army in 1871...probably a bit later. So anything pre 17644 has to be pre-Martini Henry.

As a test...If you add it up...Start with 15270 and hypothesize that it was made and numbered in Jan 1868...and add 500 for each year afterwards...actually you'll arrive at 17414 having been hypothetically serial numbered in 1872 - add to the total manufactured and you'll pull the dates back. But whatever, your SN is so close to the marker date of Jan 1868, that you can be sure it was manufactured within those two months.

1st Rue Scribe gun................................................................................................ 1st Reilly Martini
Jan 1868...............Jan 1869..............Jan 1870...............Jan 1871...............Jan 1872.......1872
15250...........v.......15750.................16250...................16750...................17250..........17644 - at 500/year. If the Martini is 1871, it'll be 600/yr
................15625
.............Sep.Oct 1868
You asked "And looking at the matched set of pistols you sold, SN 176...I can't help but think these were actually a couple of the very earliest JC Reilly's. Pistol SN's for Reilly are problematic but...these look appropriate. Did both pistols have the same SN?"

Yes, both pistols were marked 176; that seems odd to me, but perhaps that was customary with pairs of "duelers".
==================================================================================================
Initial attempt at identify Markers and # of guns produced per year



I'm going to go out on a limb and make some more guesses. The lease dates of 12 Middle Row and 316 High Holborn are now known and based on that, I've speculated that any Reilly with "Holborn Bars" is pre-1835. Re Oxford Street, In view of those two guns with labels saying "removed from Holborn" (8463 and 8568) I believe it is entirely possibly that indeed EM Riley began his serial number chronology at around number 8,400 when they moved in 1847 to Oxford Street. So taking this as a given (and it may not be) here is the approximate number of serial numbered guns he made per year, based on 7 serial numbers that I feel comfortable can be firmly dated: From the below...it looks like Reilly was producing consistently over 600 serial numbered guns a year from at the latest 1860 (possibly much earlier given his publicity...perhaps from 1855 on) to 1898. This may have been his maximum capacity since it was pretty constant for 40 years.

SN -------- Date

162 -- 1814 - Year the Reilly opened his Jewelry store on 12 Middle Row, Holborn above the Bars - lease lasted till 1835) (this is known as Holborn Bars - see the woodcut.
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - Approximately 1,000 guns made over say 15 years from about 1820-1835 = about 75 numbered guns per year (speculation since there are so few data points)- this would match Joseph Manton's output of about 110 guns a year at the time) (he probably started small, then as he figured it out increased production and got progressively more into the gun trade and out of jewelry...logically you can expect him to have started with engraving some pieces of gentlemen friends and proceeding from there). There are four pistols amongst the earliest of Reilly's I've found; it's tempting to speculate that he started out making pistols....but perhaps pistols survive better that Rifles - they're not out in the rain shooting ducks and can more easily be stored away, even when antiquated.
...| ....... |
1024 - 1835 - Serial number with the first mention of 316 High Holborn; JC Reilly moved there in August 1835 per property and voting records and per an advertisement placed in a London Newspaper.)
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - (Approximately 2,200 guns made over 12 years - speculation since there are so few data points = about 190 numbered guns per year)
...| ....... |
3329 -- 1847 - Last SN with 316 HighHolborn. Reilly's vacated 316 and moved to 502 New Oxford Street in March 1847 per London property and voting records and an advertisement in a London Newspaper.

There apparently is about a 5000 serial number gap between the end of High Holborn and beginning of numbers from New Oxford Street.

8400 -- 1847 - Year the Reilly's moved to Oxford Street (The gun serial number is hypothetical - first Reilly I have found with the Oxford address is per above 8463))
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - (Approximately 3,600 guns made over 12 years = about 300 numbered guns per year)
...| ....... |
12079 - 1859 - Serial number with the first mention of 315 Oxford Street address opened in 1859 per an advertisement just found.
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - (Approximately 1,300 guns made over 3 years = about 440 numbered guns per year)
...| ....... |
13333 - 1862 - Serial number of a Green Patent gun almost certainly made in 1862
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - (Approximately 2,000 guns made over 5 years = about 440 numbered guns per year)
...| ....... |
15254 - 1868 - 1st serial number I can find with the Paris address which opened in late 1867 or early 1868
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - (Approximately 11,500 guns made over 18 years = about 640 numbered guns made per year.)
,,,| ....... |
26584 - 1886 - Closure of Paris address - Last known SN with the Paris address.
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - (Approximately 8,000 guns made over 12 years = about 650 numbered guns made per year.)
...| ....... |
34723 - 1898 - Closure of 16 Oxford Street. Last known SN with 16 Oxford Street on the Rib.
...| ....... |
..to ------- to - (Approximately 650 guns made over 5 years = about 130 numbered guns per year)
...| ....... |
35413 - 1903 - Closure of 277 Oxford street; first gun with 295 Oxford street on Rib.

So if you have a Reilly with SN., look at the above theoretical matrix...pick the nearest date...subtract or add number of guns per year estimated to be manufactured by Reilly during that period and you'll get a somewhat approximation of the date.

Note: Reilly did a lot more business than just numbered guns. Per above they sold guns and pistols made by others...they engraved...they were prestige...they sold used guns... well..they were businessmen.

J.C. Reilly apparently produced at least 3200 serial numbered guns from 1816 to 1847...about 110 a year on average, possibly including some of his pistols. This is only a guess since there are so few datapoints. It could be that the 1820's were only a beginning..maybe he built 50 a year? But he built his trade and by the time he was installed at High Holborn in 1835...in a very substantial building with a well-to-do clientele as detailed by Wyman, he was making considerably more per year. It's even possible that the last SN I have for a long gun 3329 is 1835 or thereabouts and he actually produced another 5,000 guns and put numbers on them in the next 12 years (300-400 per year)... certainly possible...but with no evidence (surviving guns with SN's and name/address) to support this.
I've gone about as far as I can with mining the internet on EM and JC Reilly. I have a pretty good idea of what SN's were produced when from about 1848 through 1905.

I've also got about 30 guns in my database, beautiful work, which were posted by owners or auctioneers but with no serial numbers or other information, sometimes posted with photos. Would appreciate some additional information from the owners of these guns...as time permits, I'll post a database with SN "xxxxx" and links..

But the key question for me now is the production of numbered guns by JC Reilly at both Chancery Lane (Holborn Bars)(1820-35) and especially High Holborn (1835-47). There are 5000 missing serial numbers. I have two confirmed serial numbers from the period 1174 and 3329,. But I don't know if 3329 were made in 1835 or 1846.. So if anyone has a lead on more JC Reilly guns from the 1830's-40's - museums, collections, India - please let me know.

As it is...if you have a Reilly from pre 1835 (Holborn Bars) or one from 1835-47 (316 Holborn) or from the early days at Oxford street post 1847 (think SN 8400-9500)..Please post it. It might solve a mystery.
Some amount of work and a great lot of information !.
I notice a couple of typos in your 'chronology' part as in 1872 Anson's Patent should read 3791 and 1877 A & D hammerless patent should read 1875.
Re missing serial numbers - it was quite common for gunmakers to use a 'block' of numbers and miss out quite a few thousand over a period. For example record books might start at 1000 instead of 1. Whether this was to appear to have greater production than the actual or to ddifferentiate between types or something is hard to know.
Thanks...fixed. Will shortly post a list of Reilly's which were put on the net with no SN's...beautiful pictures if one is browsing.
Here are some Reilly's which have been posted on the internet, by auction houses or individuals, with no serial numbers and often no address on the ribs Some of them are very beautiful guns and the links worth looking at if you have a moment on a rainy day. It's frustrating not to have some of the fundamental information on these guns (for a historian).

xxxxx - (1830-40’s?)
Address: J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBORN STREET, LONDON
Description: 0 bore, percussion, muzzle loading shotgun; no visible serial number, circa 1845, with twist-iron 36in. re-browned barrels, the top-rib signed 'J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON', bead fore-sight, scroll engraved rib-end at breech, scroll engraved 'plugs', engraved top-tang, borderline and scroll engraved bar-action locks signed 'REILLY', scroll engraved dolphin-headed hammers,
Comment: No photos.
https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/J-C-REILLY-LONDON/22392046/LotDetail.asp?lid=22392046

xxxxx - 1830’s?) (Pistol)
Address: Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London.
Description: This .50 caliber pistol with a 10-inch octagonal barrel measures 15-inches in overall length. Wood ramrod with flared brass cap, brass section at rear unscrews exposing the worm. London proof marks. Platinum blowout plug on nipple drum. One barrel key with oval silver escutcheons. The brown Damascus finish slightly worn. Nicely grained walnut half-stock with bag grip and black horn forend cap; oval silver thumbpiece.
Comment: Pistol looks similar to 172, Reilly dueling pistols.
http://www.aaawt.com/html/firearms/f296.html

xxxx (1840’s?)
Address: JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON
Description: A fine classical English iron mounted half stocked double barreled hunting gun c. 1840 by Joseph Charles Reilly with butt cap, trigger guard, and locks finely engraved with English scroll, c. 71 cm. long barrels in calibre c. 16,5 cm. marked on the strap JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON.
Comment: Beautiful engraving with a classic Reilly stock..the markers are there very early. He made this gun. I want it.
https://www.barnebys.com/auctions/lot/32...charles-reilly/

xxxxx - (1853?); (very similar to 11651) (Reilly Enfield?)
Address: Reilly, Oxford Street, London.
Description. .577? Muzzle loading, percussion, rifle, with Enfield like sights. No details (Polish site)…
Comments: This might be a sporting Enfield. Patch box in butt. Beautiful work!! Very similar to 11651)
http://www.dobrybazar.sk/detail/predam-perkusnu-gulovnicu-reilly-new-oxford-street

xxxxx - (1860?) (very like 14115 & 15129)
Address: E.M REILLY & Co, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: 12 Bore pinfire hammergun; 32” barrels; non-rebounding locks. Circa 1860; underlever action.
Comments: Not sure when under levers began to be used…will look up the patent though this cold have been adde later.
http://www.gunseekers.co.uk/South-East-K...RGUN---4305.htm

xxxxx- (1863?)
Address: E.M REILLY (address not stated)
Description: English 1863 E.M.Reilly 12ga double barrel percussion shotgun in excellent working order. The actions are crisp and tight, the English walnut stock is in excellent shape and the gun is very nice overall. Good quality replacement ramrod, otherwise everything original. Also included is a letter from the Tower of London stating it's authenticity. It belonged to one family that migrated in the 1880s via sailing ship to America, then by wagon to Montana.
Comments: FANTASTIC story - makes you want to buy the gun. (there's that old adage - buy the gun, not the story) (Then again...from the looks it might be true).
http://www.armslist.com/posts/302292/ark...loading-shotgun

xxxxx - (post 1860)
Address: E.M.REILLY &Co. 502 & 315 OXFORD STREET LONDON
Description: Reilly browned 11 ga, .577 percussion S/S Cape Gun. 25" Damascus barrels. Bar action locks. Chequered wrist & fore-end with professionally repaired crack to wrist. Extensive engraving to locks, tang, triggerguard. Gun has a new set of replacement hammers which are still to be fitted.
Comment:
http://www.classicarms.co.za/default.php?ipkCat=41&sid=41

xxxxx (very similar to 13590)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co. , London
Descriptions: Cal. 4 bore. (1.015 bore diameter, 1.120 groove diameter. Two groove). 26" Tapered octagon twist bbl is mounted with one standing leaf rear, and "certifiable antique elephant ivory" blade front sight. Top flat is engraved "E. M. Reilly & Co. London". Bottom flat is stamped with Birmingham black powder proof. Case hardened patent breech is engraved with large open scroll. Case hardened breech iron with integral fence is engraved with large shaded scroll. Large bar action lockplate is mounted with tall, round bodied, slightly serpentine hammer. Hammer and lockplate are engraved with more large open scroll. "E. M. Reilly & Co" is on front portion of plate. Trigger plate is mounted with germanic type double set triggers, and trigger must be set before lock can be cocked. Trigger guard with squared bow has shell finial, and is also scroll engraved. probably South African restocking
Comment: Terry Buffum collection.
http://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/E-M-...-e_m-15.3-julia

xxxxx - (?)
Address: E. M. REILLY (address not mentioned/photographed)
Description: pin fire 12ga, by E. M. REILLY, Fastlock push and drop action, nicely browned Damascus barrels, good grade wood, genuine antique, no licence required
Comment:
http://www.gunstar.co.uk/e-m-reilly-co-side-by-side-pin-fire-12-bore-gauge-shotgun/Shotguns/803128

xxxxx - (1870?) (See 16607) (Reilly Snider)
Address: E.M. REILLY & Co, 502 NEW OXFORD St., LONON
Description: high quality breech-loading rifle was built by the London company, E.M.Reilly in about 1875, for shooting big game. The gun fires a massive .750 cartridge, enough
Comment: Sniders adopted in 1865 - Brit army officer bought their own for hunting to use issue ammo. this one has a lot bigger cartridge though. First Snider with a SN is 16607
http://www.brlsi.org/museum-collections/online-museum/weaponry/17486

xxxxx - (1870?) (See 16607) (Reilly-Snider)
Address: E.M. REILLY & Co, 502 NEW OXFORD St., LONON
Description: .577 Snider high quality breech-loading rifle was built by the London company, E.M.Reilly in about 1875, for shooting big game. The gun fires a massive .750 cartridge, enough
Comment: Sniders adopted in 1865. “The .577 Snider was the backbone of the Canadian Militia for decades.”
http://levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46996

xxxxx - (1882-86)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxfort Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris
Descriptions: I just added this nice EM Reilly to my gun safe the other day. A gent in Texas had it for sale. 28-inch barrels, hammers are non rebounding, perfect bores, nicely engraved on the action, rib, and sight leaves, Jones under lever and heel and toe plates. Should be fun to shoot and not too difficult to come up with an accurate loa
Comment: Frustrating; beautifully cased gun but no SN, no description in the post. the label can’t be made out from the photo. But this heavy bore rifle has the 277 address (1882 on) and the Paris address (before 1886). It looks remarkably like 23746 above.
http://www.calpappas.com/2014/05/double-rifles.html

xxxxx - (1875?)
Name: E.M. REILLY, (on case 502 OXFORD STREET, LONDON)
Description: E.M. Reilly 16 Bore muzzleloading rifle built for an Indian Maharajah.
Comment: Highly ornate case with brass inlay done in India.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=4421.0

xxxxx - (1875-1890?) (Reilly Martini) (It’s possible Reilly quit putting Reilly SN’s on Martini’s shortly after making 17414)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co, New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris
Description: Martini action serial 10889. Danish gun. .450 cal bore (classic Martini-Henry), Black powder, Ely 3 1/4 Express.
Comment:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=270014&start=20

xxxxx - (1870’s?)
Name: E.M. Reilly & co, 502 New Oxford Street, London (case) (branch office at 315 Oxford Str, and Rue Scribe Paris. (features gold and silver medals won at the 1867 Paris fair)
Description: No description but from excellent photos looks to be a classic big bore double pin-fire.
Comment:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1737606353125407.1073741883.1690234751195901&type=3

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1328698-E-M-Reilly-amp-Co-Rifle

xxxxx - (1880’s?)
Name: Not mentioned.
Description: E.M.Reilly bar-in wood 12 bore with Whitworth steel barrels circa 1885 with 2 3/4" chambers,30" mod. and full and nitro proofed. It has a large capital "B" in 24 carat gold where the oval
Comment: This is Terry Lubinski’s gun…He could add more info including SN, and address on rib, etc.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191402&page=all

xxxxx - (1870’s-80’s?)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co New Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris
Description: Double barrel, percussion hammer gun. semi-pistol grip with case.
Comment: French web site.
http://fraysse.net/listings/carabine-exp...-coups-calibre/

xxxxx - (1880’s?)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxfort Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris
Description: Looks like a big-bore double barrel rifle: “I just added this nice EM Reilly to my gun safe the other day. A gent in Texas had it for sale. 28-inch barrels, hammers are non rebounding, perfect bores, nicely engraved on the action, rib, and sight leaves, Jones under lever and heel and toe plates. Should be fun to shoot and not too difficult to come up with an accurate load.”
Comment:
http://www.calpappas.com/2014/05/double-rifles.html

xxxxx - (1880’s-90's?)
Name: E.M. Reilly
Description: E.M. Reilly 12 bore double gun w damascus barrels. Pics only with case. Text says the proof marks show it is "post 1891 but pre WWI" per the text.
Comment: Can’t read the case label but it looks like the classic 502, 315, Rue Scribe type of label. It so, it is likely a reprint because Rue Scribe closed in 1886.
http://www.calpappas.com/2014/05/double-rifles.html

xxxxx - (1880’s?)
Name: E.M.Reilly & Co with London & Paris
Descriptions: Cased Cape Gun; 12 bore 30" 174 Side by side damascus barrel + rifled in .577 express cal.
Comment: Nr. 169 in the New Zealand auction, Beautiful gun but frustrating lack of information. I’ve included it because of the below gun also with no SN but both the 16 Oxford Street (post 1882) and Rue Scribe (Pre 1886) dates. I have a feeling both guns belonged to the same owner and probably were purchased together.
http://gunauction.co.nz/catalogues/38.pdf

xxxxx - (1880’s?)
Name: E.M.Reilly & Co. 16 New Oxford Street London & Paris
Descriptions: New Zealand Double barrel muzzle loading?(in a break down rifle??), percussion, hammer gun; Damascus steel 27 1/2” 8 bore SxS rifles.
Comment: The description give me some problems. It sure looks like a pin-fire to me. But those address are significant…no photos. Item 197.
http://gunauction.co.nz/catalogues/39.pdf

xxxxx - (early 1880?’s)
Name: E.M. REILLY & CO OXFORD St.T LONDON (502 New Oxford Street, London on case label)
Description: Heavy, rifled, blued, round, 13 mm cal. barrel, checkered at the rib, signed "E.M. REILLY & CO OXFORD St.T LONDON", with adjustable rear-sight and foresight; backward spring lock, finely engraved with floral motifs, receiver and mounts en suite; a lever under the receiver; wooden stock checkered at the neck and palm rest, wooden fore-end. In a wooden case covered with linen and lined with blue cloth, some tools.
Comnent: Label on case may have the Paris address - not clear
http://www.czernys.auction.fr/_en/lot/a-cased-breech-loading-rifle-by-e-m-reilly-co-3111416

xxxxx - (1885?)
Name: EM REILLY, LONDON (NFI)
Description: BLNE, 2 1/2", 30" beautiful nitro proved Damascus choked Cyl/Full. 15" lightly figured wood to ebony butt plate. Action has gone grey with beaded lip fences and an elegant long top lever. 6 1/2lbs cased.
Comnent: Steel barrels, “modern” side plates.
http://www.hillrodandgun.com/archivepicture.php?id=12587

xxxxx - (mid 1880’s?)
Name: E. M. Reilly & Co. London marked, manufactured for Oaks & Co. Madres (India).
Description: Classic full side lock double-barrel 12ga shotgun with Damascus pattern barrels by E. M. Reilly & Co. London marked, manufactured for Oaks & Co. Madres (India). The gun shows 30-1/8” barrels, 46-1/2” overall with stock measuring approx. 14-7/8 from the front trigger to the end of the horn rubber buttplate. The gun shows standard extractors. The water table shows a series of English proofs and reproofs, 2-1/2” chamber, 3 grams black powder, 1-1/8 oz of shot. Proofed to 3 tons. Left barrel marked 740, right barrel marked 719. The gun shows a quality bank note scroll engraved frame with nicely rebrowned barrels showing 90% thinning, correct color old tobacco brown restored finish. The action has been lightly polished a satin grey, the top of the frame is marked “Ellis & Scots Patent” by the release lever.
Comnent: With all the patent numbers, should be able to date this gun..no serial number though.
http://www.icollector.com/Classic-full-s...lly-Co_i8787083

xxxxx - (1880)?
Name: E.M REILLY (no address mentioned) (best gun)
Description: Made for Maharana Sri Natwarsinji. 8 bore double rifle. 28” barrels. 3 1/4 chamber. sights for 50, 100, 150, 200 yards.
Comnent: Spanish site - have to sign on to see the photos. Fue fabricado especialmente para un principe hindú: H.H.Maharana Shree Warhatsincji Loonanara
http://www.cazayarmas.org/t7127-e-m-reilly-a-la-altura-de-los-mejores

xxxxx - (1880’s?) Best hammer gun
Name: E.M REILLY (address not mentioned)
Description: 12 gauge, classic hammer pigeon gun, beautifully engraved. 31” nitro proofed steel barrels with Briley Chokes and 3” chambers; Double triggers; extractor; splinter forearm pistol grip,
Comnent: All that info…no SN or address off the rib. (scroll down alphabetically)
http://www.stevebarnettfineguns.com/asp-bin/archivedetail.asp?ID=6191
I've added about 30 Reilly SN's above on all three pages (SN 164-25000), (25000-35654) and (xxxxx). And have had to move more SN's to the second page. Many of them were from Terry Buffum's collection now up for sale. There were no surprises as to serial numbers and their addresses/projected dates of manufacture. This means that the chronology laid out above is probably pretty accurate. So unless there's something from the pre-Oxford street time frame or some pre-SN 9000 guns, I won't add more. The objective was to get a handle on dates - that I believe has been done.

I've looked at every Reilly I can find for a couple of months now. And looking at Terry's collection...I'll simply say that there are going to be some very happy shooters when the bidding's done.
Originally Posted By: lagopus
Looks like you have spent some time on research; excellent work. Ever thought of putting it all in to book form? Reilly guns were sometimes forged as I acquired one once. I knew what was and was given it. Totally un-restorable and nothing like the work turned out by Reilly himself although it might have fooled a blind man. I de-activated it as a wall-piece for someone. May have a photo somewhere on file.

Still slightly in shock about the pump action at a game shoot. Welcome to the board. Lagopus.....


Lagopus. I've spent about 12 years on the sub-continent, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan.. If it's a forgery and it rusts, I'd bet it was made by Pashtuns in their arms factories north of the Kohat Pass (traditionally an Adam Khel, Afridi area but now simply business). Except that their forgeries are so good that ATF can't tell their copies of a Snider-Enfield or a Martini-Henry from a real one.

The Civil War reenactor crowd discovered Pashtun copies of the 1853 Enfield. In 2004 you could buy one in Kabul for $100. But the Pashtuns are above all businessmen when they aren't killing someone in a blood-feud, and they rapidly figured out the market. Sniders and Martinis stayed pretty much the same price..but by 2012 Classic percussion gun 1853 Enfields would cost you near $500 in Kabul. You'll find them over here with Confederate Army stamps...but with sub-continent serial numbers. I've had to disabuse several dealers in Confederate memorabilia about the provenance of their gun.



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1814 -1835 - Holborn Bars and High Holborn


My last post unless I get a stash of early Reilly serial numbers. Here are changes I've made which can help with dating:

London records prove Reilly opened 12 Middle Row in 1814 and was there till 1835. This is also known as "Holborn above the Bars.". Thus I believe any Reilly with "Holborn Bars" is pre-1835. (316 High Holborn is "above the bars" so I could be mistaken...yet, makers stamp their guns with something identifiable. So until there is more info available, I'll stick to the analysis and with the almost unmistakable evidence - the woodcut of Chancery Lane which has "Holborn Bars" on the top of the building.

London tenancy and voting registration records prove JC Reilly opened the 316 High Holborn address in August 1835 and closed it in March 1847. Thus any gun with the 316 or "High Holborn" address is within this 12 year period.

Changes have been made in the various chronologies above. There are not many data points from this era...but it's a bit more clarity.
Originally Posted By: trw999
Well done on the research Argo44. I too am a veteran, British Army.

I often toddle off to the British Library to look up old shooting journals such The Field, Arms & Explosives, The Sporting Goods Review. Let me know if you'd like me to look up any particular issue.

Tim


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1814-1833 - Reilly as a Jeweler, Silverplate


Tim....here is something I'm still working on. JC Reilly's background as a "jeweler." I think he was a silver plate worker...explains his engraving skills..and probably why the lawyers and country gentlemen brought guns to him...i.e. to be engraved. Here is a post I modified:

1819 - He entered a maker’s mark at Goldsmiths Hall in 1819 as a plateworker from 12 Middle Row, Holborn. (Note: I've been unable to verify this; there is a John C. Reilly from 1818-20 with a silver maker's mark; Plate would seem to indicate he worked in silver. Every goldsmith's mark is registered but I have difficulty navigating the site. Somebody in London might research this.)

If you're ever in London, would be interested in that mark..if it exists. And if it exists, any examples of "silver" he engraved which might be extant. It would be interesting to compare his "jeweler" engravings to his gun engravings.
Thanks Argo44. This plethora of information has been a great help in establishing the provenance for my 4 bore E.M. Reilly.

Best Regards, George
A truly fascinating thread - thank you for bringing it to my attention, Argo.

Mine is a damascus barrelled, 30", 12g, side lever hammer gun, s/n 20467, bearing the barrel inscription "EM Reilly & Co, Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris"

[img]http://thumbsnap.com/2uJCbX4V[/img]

From its condition, I suspect the gun may have spent some time resting in a gun room for many years before resurfacing.

Recently reproofed (2 3/4", nitro) so very much one to enjoy (albeit I limit load weight and avoid "punchy" cartridges).

A near identical gun is currently available, restocked, from Watson Bros in London. I think my wife may attempt to murder me in the event that I try to compose a pair...
==================================================================================================
20467 (Autumn 1876)



Irrational, I'd estimate 20467 as having been made in Autumn 1876, possibly September/October

Analysis:

— 15270 is the first Paris address on a rib I've found; he opened Rue Scribe in late Jan/early Feb 1868.

— 26584 is the last gun I've found with a Paris address; he closed Rue Scribe about August 1886.

Between Feb 68 and Aug 86 (222 months) he numbered about 11,200 guns; that would be about 50+ numbered guns a month at a steady rate (and it obviously fluctuated).(on reflection this production rate stayed pretty steady from 1868 to 1898 - perhaps this was the maximum he could produce?)..say 620 a year. So just assuming this is correct, your gun would be about the 5,200th numbered gun produced after he opened Rue Scribe… 104 months after Feb 1868 = 8 years 8 months. So I’d estimate it to be have been made in Fall 1876.

As an accuracy check…the next marker is 26584, the last SN I've found produced at Rue Scribe in Aug 1886, about 6,000 serial numbers after yours. At 50 a month that would be 120 months of production = 10 years. 10 years before August 1886 = Autumn 1876.

To check this further, here are patents Reilly regularly used on his guns. It should not have the Mills 3rd bite patent but may have the 1875 patents. (note: Reilly would build whatever was ordered. I've found a muzzle loader built in the mid-1880's).

1872 - Patent: Anson's fore-end fastener patent no. 3791

1874 - Patent: Needham patented a hammerless, barrel-cocking gun which was also the first ejector in 1874.

1875 - Patent: W.M. Scott's patent 3223

1875 - Patent: Anson & Deely patent; the first hammerless gun with top lever.

1878 - Patent: Mills 3rd bite patent no 4980

I personally think Reilly's are currently a very good bargain in English 19th century shotguns...but this again is just a layman's observation. And, you'll get dozens of experts here responding to your last sentence saying in effect, "You can never have too many SxS's."

Here is Irrational's Reilly:

Thank you, sir, that's very much appreciated - I'd been guessing circa 1875 so we appear to be in quite close agreement (albeit your approach is rather more reasoned).

I wholeheartedly agree that you can never have too many SxS's: I have no plans to buy an o/u, if for no other reason that space in the current cabinet is fully spoken for, but one day a 19th C example may creep in to the inevitable 2nd cabinet...
==================================================================================================
27377 (1885), 27854 (early 1886)

EDIT: Dates changed due to change in 1st SN for rue Scribe and closure of rue Scribe in August 1885 vice 1886

I was asked by a member on the board for my opinion on the age of two EM Reilly's. I've received no pictures or heard nothing more but here is my response which might help others to date their Reilly SxS's.

27377 - Nov 1887
27854 - Aug 1888

Here's the reasoning. 26584 is the last SN I can find with both the Rue Sribe Paris address concurrent with one of the Oxford street addresses. He closed Rue Scribe in August 1886 I believe. I estimate that he was numbering about 600-640 guns a year at this point, say 50+ a month.

26584.................27200.....................27840
08/1886..............08/1887..v..............08/1888.v
.....................................27377..................27854
.....................................11/87...................08/88

If he closed Rue Scribe earlier in the year it'll pull those SN's back a few months. Both are so close to the marker number 26584 that you can be pretty sure both estimates are close.
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1837-98 - Reilly and and airguns - 1st post (Photos hi-jacked by Photobucket - NEVER FORGET)


To try to define the chronology, history and date Reilly serial number more precisely, I’m going to enter some Reilly air gun canes. They seemed to have survived more intact - probably because they weren’t hauled into the woods and the cases were kept in substantial houses.

Reilly’s were specialists in air-guns and in “1850” wrote a treatise on air guns. (I think it to be written at least a year earlier in 1849 or even 1848). (Text below)

http://www.network54.com/Forum/681456/message/1493983648



He identified himself as “Reilly, Junr” (presumably Reilly, junior)….
The address of the firm was No. 502, New Oxford Street, “removed from 316 Holborn,” London. The title page of this Treatise is important because it still has “removed from 316 Holborn” on the title page. They moved to Oxford St. in March 1847. The Reilly’s quit using the Holborn name about a year after the move to Oxford Street.

Here are some Reilly air guns arranged as best I can per the label’s by chronological order. Only one has a Serial Number but that one may be important.

1). Xxxxx
Name: J.C. REILLY, 316 HOLBORN, LONDON
Description: .41 CAL; RIFLED BBL, BORE GOOD, BLACK PAINTED FINISH, HORN CANE HANDLE, COMES WITH ORIGINAL PUMP, FIXED SIGHTS, ROUND BALL LOADS INTO A ROTATING BREACH, BUTTON TRIGGER, COCKING KEY INCLUDED, MAKER'S MAHOGANY TAKE DOWN CASE, BRASS MUZZLE PROTECTOR

Comment: Reilly was at316 High Holborn from Aug 1835 to March 1847 (see history - 4th post in this line). This is the first extant 316 High Holborn label I've seen.
https://ellwoodepps.com/joesph-charles-reilly-air-gun-cane.html
Comment:






2). Xxxxx
Name: J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBURN, LONDON
Description: This cane rifle consists of two parts painted black enamel which measures just under 38 inches including the screw on horn handle. The center joint ring is marked "REILLY 316 HOLBORN LONDON IMPROVED". The pump is screwed onto the upper portion to fill the chamber with air. The pump consists of an iron tube with brass ends and a screw on iron handle for the pump. The tube is marked "J.C. REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON". The lower portion of the cane houses the breech and firing mechanism. After the chamber is "pumped up", the two pieces are screwed together and the muzzle end has a brass tip which screws off and the attached wooden barrel plug comes out. The breech is opened by a sliding lever and is loaded with a round bullet through a round hole on top of the shaft. A key is then used to cock it and a small post "trigger" pops out of the side. The trigger is simply pushed to fire the rifle. The barrel is rifled and gauges at 38 caliber. It is equipped with a small blade front and notched rear sights.

Comment: Reilly was at High Holburn from 1835 to March 1847.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/55/64/reilly-co-edward-m-air#detail




3). 7801 ??
Name: REILLY, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: REILLY LONDON A RARE CASED 28-BORE PERCUSSION COMBINATION WALKING-STICK GUN serial no. 7801. circa 1845 comprising of a 28 3/4in. re-browned octagonal damascus rifle barrel signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON` (renewed) small dove-tailed crescent fore-sight blued standing notch rear-sight with one folding leaf a 29 3/4in. re-browned damascus round shot barrel with octagonal breech section (unsigned) and an unsigned octagonal 32-bore 3in. re-browned damascus pistol barrel (probably a later addition) matching period London proofs together with a percussion under-hammer squared boxlock action with guarded trigger the top-tang signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON`

Comment:
--this is an early Reilly after they moved to 502 New Oxford Street in late March 1847. It has he picture of 502 indicating it is post 1848-9. For the first 12 months or so after the move the wrote "removed from Holborn" on the labels.
--The SN is interesting because if his air-gun canes were numbered in the same series as his long guns, this is the earliest number after the move. I’ve speculated that EM and JC just jumped numbers up from about 4.500 to 8,400 after the move. However, this cane if the SN is in the long-gun series will change that.
-- (the auction house is wrong; the cane can’t be 1845 and have the New Oxford Street address - see the chronology)
-- Note: I’ve found a JC REILLY shotgun with the 502 New Oxford Street address with a serial number 7280. This is outside of the EM Reilly numbering system - the earliest I found was 8463, which had the label "502 New Oxford" plus "removed from Holborn." (posted below) This makes me wonder whether Joseph Charles and E.M split their serial numbering at this time. i.e. J.C. may have continued with his own numbering system and let EM begin anew with SN’s after 8,400). This will be investigated further. (or it could be that the "7" is actually a "9")
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...f6-a4340134dc99





Here are two S&W revolvers sent to India for a Marahajah with same label: - date of the S&W models may help date the label.



(for historians to compare labels this from Serial numbered guns)"
8463 - (1848’s?); !!!!!!!!!! Earliest SN after move to 502 Oxford !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Address: Reilly, New Oxford Street, London (case label has “removed from Holborn);
Description: .390, percussion, double express rifle. Enfield type rifling, muzzle loading; (breaks down) with patch box in butt;
Comment: This is the first confirmed use of the Oxford Street address on a Reilly gun..and the label "removed from Holborn" would seem to indicate an early provenance after the change to Oxford street.
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-1361-e-m...nal-case-40673/

and the label:




4). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET,
Description: 1

Comment: REILLY on the label with a picture of 502 New Oxford Street. I believe this label was the company label from about 1849 to 1859 when E.M. added his initials to the firm.
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...4f-a41800b08eda




5). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: 1

Comment: REILLY on the label; 502 picture; There are two medals on this label; no close-up to tell what they were. Reilly's exhibited at the 1855 Paris exhibition and their display “attracted considerable notice and valuable patronage.” All the goods were sold and many orders booked. Wonder if these medals were from that fair? If so, why weren't they featured in follow-on ads? These could be some sort of stamps from a reseller?

http://www.vintageairguns.co.uk/air-canes/?occur=1&album=47&photo=1748




6). Xxxxx
Name: E.M.Reilly &Co., New Oxford St.,London
Description: This is a totally complete 1850's Cane Air Gun including it's original pump and cocking key. The pump and the cane are signed "E.M.Reilly &Co., New Oxford St.,London. The cane looks to be about .36 cal. and retains it's original brass rod and cap.  It also has a front and rear sight.  The head of the cane has some wonderful scrimshaw work consisting of 3 panels . One Admiral Nelson in his full naval officers garb. The second one is a family coat of arms,which I'm told is the Prince of Wales. The third is  the battleship Victory.The head is made out of Alabaster and there's a minor chip on the top . E.M Reilly was famous for his caneguns and wrote"Treatise on Air Guns" in 1850.  The  gun works just fine . It holds it's charge when pumped up and cocks and fires . A really great and complete nautical Cane Air Gun. This outfit would fit equally well in a firearms, nautical or scrimshaw collection. Rarely seen for sale.

Comment: EM began to be used on gun ribs about 1859.
https://www.johnjhayeshistoricalcollectibles.com/proddetail.php?prod=e4







7). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY, LONDON
Description: A 100-BORE PNEUMATIC AIR CANE 
SIGNED E.M. REILLY, LONDON, THIRD QUARTER OF THE 19TH CENTURY 
With sighted rifled brass barrel with rotating loading-drum, button-trigger and aperture for the cocking-key (key and muzzle-cap missing), signed on the case-hardened inner face at the join between the barrel and reservoir, dark horn handle, and retaining much original wood-effect painted finish throughout; together with AN 80-BORE BUTT-RESERVOIR AIR PISTOL, with turn-off two-stage barrel, scroll engraved brass action with iron 'flintlock' mechanism, and brass reservoir. The first 37ľin. (96.9cm.) long (2)
Comment:
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/a-100-bore-pneumatic-air-cane-signed-em-5509870-details.aspx




8). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: A great cased air gun cane curio by E.M.Reilly of London. It comes with its own original wood case with an address label for "E. M. Reilly & Co" and there is a list of contents prepared by an earlier owner/seller. The list reads: "Reilly walking stick air rifle, about .40 brass bbl., multi-groove rifling, bore about perfect. Very powerful, complete with mold, pump, cocking key, extra valve, etc. When fully pumped up, these will shoot 20-30 shots full power, Breech loading. Weight 3 1/2 Pounds. Thumb trigger. Probably made about 1850." (A written description of air guns by Dike on page 357 of Cane Curiosa mentions E. M. Reilly of London, as a noted air gun maker and inventor. Additionally 35/6 shows a very similar cased piece by another maker.)

Comment: Label shows use of "EM" (post 1859?) but no 315 New Oxford St subsidiary (therefore before 1860).
https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/11244082_a-cased-air-gun-cane-curio-by-emreilly-of-london



9). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: Cased .36-caliber English Cane Gun . . . circa 1849  by E.M. Reilly & Company. Until the 1800s, specialist carvers, metal workers, and artisans produced canes and walking sticks by hand. However, the popularity of fashion and gadget canes fueled a market for their mass manufacture and subsequently helped lead to their demise. Canes became less artistic and reflective of current fashions.

Comment: Use of "EM"(post 1858) but no 315 New Oxford subsidiary on the label (pre 1859).
http://www.greendragonsociety.com/Weaponry/Weaponry_Main_page.asp




10). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET, LONDON (502, NEW OXFORD STEET on case label)
Description: This is a rare, cased, Air Cane. Made of brass & steel it unscrews into 2 sections and when assembled measures 36" overall. The barrel section has a clean bore with crisp rifling (1cm at the muzzle approx. AA shot). The barrel section features a tiny blade foresight and 'V' notch steel rear sight.
The weapon fires moulded lead balls inserted in the barrel section at the loading port which has a small bolt feature. It is armed by means of its steel and brass air pump and fired by means of a steel winged trigger which is inserted into the underside of the rifle and twists to fire. The pump and trigger are present. The body of the pump is nicely marked by the manufacturer 'E.M. Reilly & Co, Oxford Street, London' (illustrated).

Comment: Note Paris Exhibition Medals 1867 but no Rue Scribe, Paris address…indicating it could have made between August 1867 and February 1868
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...1a-a5f00113573f






11). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description:

Comment: Note Paris Exhibition Medals 1867 but no Rue Scribe, Paris address…Actually though the Paris address has been defaced. 1868-1871 thereabouts.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/681456/thread/1362405040/4/A





Mr. Argo, thank you for posting such informative information on the Reilly air guns and reviving the E.M. Reilly & Co. thread! there is more information in this thread about the company than likely appears anywhere.

My first "good" English gun was a Reilly and when I searched for information I came up with very little. Thanks to the research being done by you and others who've posted in this thread, that paucity of information is being remedied.
Again, Thanks!...Geo
Thanks George. I have more interesting serial numbers for Reilly guns but will wait to post till I can parse out a few more early Reilly's from Hoborn bars and 316 High Holborn. Modestly, I believe this board now has in one place the most extensive information available on Reilly anywhere. I just wish people who have early Reilly's or know where they might be owned or displayed would post. I'd follow up. Gene Williams
Argo, THANK YOU so much for this, to say the least, enthralling study of one of my favorite names in the history of vintage British firearms.

I own two E. M. Reilly double rifles, both caliber .500 BPE

Serial numbers are as follows: 18766 and 18954

Both bear the London and Paris addresses, and both are gorgeous guns aesthetically and superb as shooters.

Thank You again for your scholarly dedication to this most worthy of subjects.
==================================================================================================
18766, 18954 (both 1874)



Krakow, Many thanks. I added your two guns when you first sent me a note about a year ago. You'll see them in the master list. I'm sure people (me) would love to see photos of them. If you could post photos...all would benefit.
-- go to photobucket.com
-- sign in/or create an account (it's free)
-- drag your photo into "upload."
-- once it's in your library, copy the img "url" code and put the code in your post.

And I was in Rome in October 1978 when Pope JP-II was invested...and was living there when he died in April 2005. Great great man.

Any idea what the last year of manufacture was for a Reilly shotgun?
==================================================================================================
1918-22 - Charles Riggs

Edit: This post has been extensively changed; and as it was posted at the time, is wrong on several points. Riggs did not take over the Reilly name until August 1922. See P.20 etc.

Take a look at the 3rd post on page one which has a highly detailed history of the Reilly's from 1780 to 1904, much of it never published before. Here is the history of Reilly from 1904 on...cribbed mostly from TRW999 on this site; I have not looked at newspaper ads etc. to verify this; the internet can be an endless circle of disinformation but I trust TRW999's research:

In 1903 277 Oxford Street was vacated prior to re-building, and the firm was recorded at 295 Oxford Street.

From 1903 to 1912 the firm was at 295 Oxford Street.

In 1912 E M Reilly & Co Ltd was recorded at 13 High Street, Marylebone. The directors of this limited company were H Reilly and C W Roberts (see page 16 for information about the Reilly bankruptcy).

In 1917 (edit: actually 1922) the company ( E M Reilly) was bought by Charles Riggs & Co. Per TRW999 It is believed Charles Riggs worked for James Kerr (& Co) of London (see also London Armoury Co). Charles Riggs & Co ceased trading in 1966. (No further info on the source of this information) (it would be interesting to research the fate of Reilly's two sons after this sale...probably worked as gunsmiths or gun repairers someplace).
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=333352

Riggs was located at 107 Bishopsgate, London E3. He stamped his names on a lot of guns as “C. Riggs” apparently including BSA SMLE Enfields per the following.



Charles Riggs were a sporting outfitters, that sold, "Everything for Sport and the Sportsman" as well as motors and motorcycles. They were main dealers for everything BSA and had a large stand at Bisley. A catalog exists from the 1920’s with pictures of the shop front with all the BSA advertising, the gun department, works and offices and even the managing director.

Such was Reilly’s prestige that Riggs continued to use the Reilly name right up until its own demise. In a 1924 catalog, an ‘introduction’ by Riggs for Reilly guns states “Reilly needs no comment here, having been established for almost 100 years and it’s reputation for craftsmanship and value is a household word.” It is widely reported that Riggs ceased trading in 1966.

Per Gun Digest 2014, today, the E.M. Reilly name is owned by Charlie Pfleer of Hill Rod & Gun, in Bozeman, Montana, a dealer in vintage double guns and guns cases.

Per another site, the name “E M Reilly & Company Gun Manufacturers Ltd” is now owned by Newton & Co (Chartered Accountants) Ranmore House 19 Ranmore Road, Dorking Surrey, RH4 1HE; Tel: 01306 884208; newton-co@tiscali.co.uk. The business is described as “dormant.”
==================================================================================================
1922 + - Charles Riggs Reilly numbering system - 6 digits



As I mentioned in the main line...the last Reilly serial number I can date with some confidence is 35678 which would have been numbered at 295 Oxford Street, after 277 was closed, the last marker date. So 35678 was probably dated between 1905-1911? (note: I cannot confirm this; this number came from a site looking for a missing pair - thus I assume the pair is still at large; but I have not seen the rib or the actual SN).

I have found this gun with an E.M Reilly name and a six digit serial number, seeming to indicate that whomever began numbering the newer Reilly's bumped the succession up by 100,000+. You'd think that if the Reilly name were placed on mass produced guns, there'd be a lot more around. (Note: I've been unable to access the close-up photos of this gun and thus cannot verify the serial number etc.).

140451
Name: E.M. REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: E. M. Reilly, 16g. with nice long 30" barrels
Comment: Steel barrels, 2 1/2. 30” Barrels, 6 lbs, 5 oz. Where did that SN come from?
http://www.vintagedoubles.com/catalog/?keywords=REILLY
While I'm about it, here are some not previously posted Reilly serial numbers to take a look at. See Page one for SN 0-25,000; page 3 for 25,000-35700. There are some beautiful Reilly's here. Still researching. I just went through French sites and added several guns as follows:

Xxxxx
Name: J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON
Description: A 10-BORE PERCUSSION DOUBLE-BARRELLED WILDFOWLING-GUN, no visible serial number, circa 1845, with twist-iron 36in. re-browned barrels, the top-rib signed 'J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON', bead fore-sight, scroll engraved rib-end at breech, scroll engraved 'plugs', engraved top-tang, borderline and scroll engraved bar-action locks signed 'REILLY', scroll engraved dolphin-headed hammers, walnut half-stock chequered at the wrist, iron furniture (heel-plate corroded) and brass mounted mahogany ramrod
.....Comment:
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/j.c.-reilly,-london-a-10-bore-percussion-double-b-531-c-0de80dba2f

7201. **???**
Name: Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London
Description: A mid 19th Century single barrel percussion action gun, by Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London, numbered 7201, the muzzle loading barrel holding brass mounted ebony ramrod under, signed to top and lockplate, engraved steel mounts with feather scrolls to walnut butt and stock, in original mahogany fitted case with maker's label to inner lid; two Sykes patent shot flasks, one with embossed leather bag; one Reilly shot tin; and other fittings. Hammer Price: Ł700.00
.....Comment: June 2016 auction; muzzle loader. Its been assumed that EM Reilly began consecutive SN beginning at 8,400 when they moved to 502 New Oxford Street and this is born out by labels and serial numbers. However, If this SN is correct, it may mean that EM Reilly began serial numbering his wares beginning at SN 8,400 upon arriving at 502 while JC Reilly kept the old numbering system or began anew at around 7,000, separating their production to some extent. This JC Reilly has the 502 address meaning post 1847 but the number just doesn't fit the Reilly progression. This is not clear - did JC number guns on his own? Or is the entry wrong? - more examples are needed..
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...20-a61700c0a9c0


10670
Name: REILLY, 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: E.M. Reilly percussion double rifle in its makers case
.....Comment: Damascus barrels; no mention of caliber. Muzzle loader; beautiful work.
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100838077

11xxx ?? (take a look at this 1850's "Puff the Magic Dragon" aka "Spooky")
Name: E.M. REILLY, 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON (on case Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London).
Description: A rare cased four barreled percussion gun by Reilly, dating: mid-19th Century, provenance: London. Round, smooth barrels; the upper ones are 11 mm cal.
.....Comment: No SN. 4 (Four!!) Beautiful Damascus barrels. Muzzle loader. Looks to be late 1850’s; “EM” is clearly on the rib. "Reilly London" on the side plates. Can't figure out how the four hammers work with two triggers (looks like you pull the trigger...recock the hammer, flip over a hammer extension and pull it again). As such I’d estimate the SN should be around 11200). (It would be nice to look at the gun or to have the auction house post a SN).
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a-...42-c-a92474cb0a
.....Comment: the label in the case is unique (haven't seen the like). It uses "Reilly" not "EM" (though the gun has EM on the rib) and has the 502 address. It has two medals, "Exposition Medal London" and "Prize Medal Paris" (can't read the dates - might refer to his stand at the London Fair 1851 and at Paris in 1855). Sanscrit writing on the label... and there is a French phrase "Fusils a bascule" on the label. The gun is amazing. Take a look.




10700-14000. ????
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: 8 Gauge, single shot, center break, underleaver; Hammer gun; A classic Reilly 8 Bore, with all original furniture and damascus barrel; this is truly something special for wildfowlers interested in using a classic design. Damascus barrel 34”, 9 lbs 10 oz; Chamber length 3 1/4”.
.....Comment: This an awesome cannon of a gun. No rebounding hammers; no Paris address. I’d estimate by appearances it would be 1860-64 (after Reilly started using EM on his guns). SN should be between 10500-14000. (If anyone can find out who bought it, I’d welcome having the SN).
https://www.guntrader.uk/dealers/central...160622150501002

10600-15600
Name: E.M Reilly & Co., London
Description: 4 bore belted ball hammer percussion rifle muzzle loader. Tapered octagon twist bbl is mounted with one standing leaf rear, and “certifiable antique elephant ivory” blade front sight. Top flat is engraved “E. M. Reilly & Co. London”. Bottom flat is stamped with Birmingham black powder proof. Case hardened patent breech is engraved with large open scroll. Case hardened breech iron with integral fence is engraved with large shaded scroll. Large bar action lockplate is mounted with tall, round bodied, slightly serpentine hammer. Hammer and lockplate are engraved with more large open scroll. “E. M. Reilly & Co” is on front portion of plate. Trigger plate is mounted with germanic type double set triggers, and trigger must be set before lock can be cocked. Trigger guard with squared bow has shell finial, and is also scroll engraved. Full length stock with swan-necked butt, is of indeterminate tropical wood (restocked in South Africa?); blued steel buttplate. Stock features large germanic style swept shadow line left hand cheekpiece. A hand forged ramrod is held by single plain pipe. Weight: 16 lbs. 6 oz.
.....Comment: Holy cow..What a thumb sized load of lead. No way to identify the date other than after 1859 (when EM appeared on ribs) and before 1868 (when Rue Scribe appeared). SN should be between 10600 and 15600.
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/2347-391/


109xx ??
Name: E.M REILLY & CO, LONDON?
Description: 16 bore by E.M Reilly. Estimated 1855 (by the auction house). 6 1/2 lbs, 29 3/4” damascus barrels. Underleaver centerbreak. 2 1/2 chambers. (no SN published).
.....Comment: (From appearances, believe the date should be 1859 because of the “E.M.” on the rib. “EM” was added to guns beginning around 1859 - SN 11651; although I’ve found a couple of guns, 10,621 (I'm not quite sure I believe this) & 11227, which might have “E.M.” on their ribs)(see main list on 1st page).
http://www.gunstar.co.uk/e-m-reilly-co-pin-fire-16-bore-gauge-side-by-side/Shotguns/903733?op=photos


(1)3514
Name: Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London.
Description: Double muzzle loading shotgun, 27” Damascus barrels with ramrod; 6 lbs, 15 Oz. Double trigger. C1850. Case in original mahogany case with Reilly trade label. Barrels marked 13 bore. SN is allegedly "3514".
….Comment: Reilly made odd gauges - see the Australian ad from 1866 (Historical post) advertising 12, 15, 17 and 24 bore pin-fires. However this serial cannot be correct with that address. I suspect there’s a “1” in front of it. 13514 would be late 1862/early 1863.
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns-black-powder/reilly/percussion/12-gauge/170610144659005


17612
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET,
Description: Chiens extérieurs, deux coups, calibre 12-65. Canons damas juxtaposés de 76 cm. Bascule, platines et chiens gravés de rinceaux. Ouverture par clé devant pontet. Crosse en noyer quadrillé de 37,5 cm. Avec pičce de pouce en or chiffrée “JL” sous couronne. N°17612
.....Comment: Sold at an auction in Cannes, 23 Juillet 2016. EM Reilly hammer gun, underlever. SN would indicate it was number around 1872.
https://www.auction.fr/_fr/lot/fusil-de-...83#.WTXwCRiZPMU

20125
Name: E.M REILLY & Co…….
Description: Lot n° 363 - Réf. 1101431; Fusil REILLY cal. 12 N°20125 concurrent Purdey de 1875 ŕ 1884 avec sa Valise.
.....Comment: Reilly 12 gauge shotgun, SN 20125; Located next to Purdy from 1875-1884; with its case. (No further info). 20125 would have both the London and Paris address on the rib. SN would indicate it was numbered about Spring 1876.
http://www.cappelaere-prunaux.com/index.php?page=009&NbPage=20&IdPage=19&num_vente=110

20467
Name: EM Reilly & Co, Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris
Description: damascus barrelled, 30", 12g, side lever hammer gun; From its condition, I suspect the gun may have spent some time resting in a gun room for many years before resurfacing. Recently reproofed (2 3/4", nitro)
.....Comment: Gun posted on this board by “Irrational.” I estimated that the gun was made (numbered) in Autumn 1876, possibly September/October.
[img]http://thumbsnap.com/2uJCbX4V[/img]

21339 (second of a pair)
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London
Description: 12-bore hammer gun. Engraved '2' on the rib and triggerguard tang, Jones patent rotary-underlever, rebounding sidelocks, best foliate-scroll engraving, well-figured stock with recoil-pad, the damascus barrels with game-rib. Weight 6lb. 13oz., 15in. pull (14˝in stock), 30in. barrels, both approx. I.C., 2˝in. chambers, London nitro proof.
…..Comment: Based on serial number likely numbered in 1878.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21659/lot/53/

21761
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON & RUE SCRIBE, PARIS
Description: E M Reilly double rifle for me. It is a hammer gun
.....Comment: Purdey under bolts and dual side bolts. chambered for 500 BPE. HWK’s gun from this board; he bought several of Terry Buffum’s guns. (I estimate that it was numbered in 1879).

22038
Name: E.M REILLY ?
Description: A very nice antique English Double Barreled Hammer Sporting Gun by Reilly London, No 22038, 12 gauge, length 117 cm,with original leather bag,
.....Comment: see Bolk antiques. cannot find the descriptions or pictures of the actual gun. This description is from the google search only.
www.belgiumantiques.com.

22077
Name:
Description: Hammerless underlever 12 guage; Damascus barrels; Whitworth patent.
.....Comment: Located in Mexico. Beautiful work - check out the photos
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d94/berettaman7/Reilly1.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d94/berettaman7/Reilly3.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d94/berettaman7/Reilly4.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d94/berettaman7/Reilly6.jpg
https://www.mexicoarmado.com/archive/index.php/t-52866.html

25572
Name: E.M. Reilly, 16 New Oxford Street, London and Paris
Description: E.M. Reilly .450 BPE; Good to find condition. Three proof marks - London provisional proof since 1856; Crown over interconnect GP; London definitive black power proof; and the crown over V since 1670 London view mark. Purchased in Spain by a relative in 1950’s. 10 lbs, 28” barrel, .450 caliber; gold inlay - E.M Reilly, London and Paris, “To their majesties the kings of Spain and Portugal” on top of the barrel; Double hammer. Three sights. COC 9 under the barrel; SN 25,572. Fancy scroll work.
.....Comment: Hammer gun, underlever. SN would place it about 1884
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/what-is-it-and-when-was-it-made.671624/

27377
Name: Not Mentioned.
Description: Not mentioned.
.....Comment: I was asked by a member on this board located in California for the estimated age of the SN. No mention of the gun. Estimate it was that it was made/numbered o/a Nov 1887. No further into available.

27854
Name: Not Mentioned.
Description: Not mentioned.
.....Comment: I was asked by a member on this board located in California for the estimated age of the SN. No mention of the gun. Estimate it was that it was made/numbered o/a Nov 1887. No further into available.

285xx ??
Name: E.M REILLY & Co, 277 Oxford Street, London.
Description: Boxlock by EM Reilly. Built on a Westley Richards action with the WR patented top lever and dolls head. Lovely Damascus tubes. Nice wood. Scroll engraved. Ejector. Intercepting sears. Original black powder proof. Number 2 of a pair. Action flats marked “Deeley ejector patent 427” (1880?) and “Anson & Deeley patent 6265 (about 1887?)
.....Comment: No SN provided. Gun was in Norway. 277 Oxford Street would be after 1881 when Oxford St. was renumbered; no Paris address would be after Aug 1886. Say numbered around 1890 - SN about 28,500?
https://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?t=15506

303xx
Name: E.M. REILLY, 277 OXFORD ST. LONDON
Description: E.M.Reilly bar-in wood 12 bore with Whitworth steel barrels circa 1885 with 2 3/4" chambers, 30" mod. and full and nitro proofed. It has a large capital "B" in 24 carat gold where the oval would normally be and was purported to have belonged to the Duke of Bedford,who was an avid pigeon shot.
.....Comment: (underlever). This is Terry Lubzinski’s gun…Terry states per below that it has "NOT FOR BALL" on the barrels, indicating barrels proofed 1887 or earlier. However the SN indicates it may have been numbered in early 1892. Apparently Reilly had barrels stockpiled and proofed for stock. (to be checked out)
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191402&page=all

32971
Name: E.M Reilly & Co,, 16 New Oxford Street, London
Description: 30" barrels with no chokes designed for ball or shot. Bores show moderate pitting and have 2 1/2" chambers. Action is engraved in English rose and scroll. Locks up tight and on face with all numbers matching. LOP is 14 1/8" to the horn buttplate. Drop is 1 1/2" and 2 1/2". Flip up sight for use with the ball.
Comments: Numbered around 1895
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/656130120

33269
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD ST., LONDON
Description: A fine double barrelled breech loading gun by E. M. Reilly & Co, dating: 1875-1890 London. Round, smooth (medium signs of use inside)
Damascus, 12 gauge barrels, rib provided with a signature 'E. M. REILLY & Co OXFORD ST. LONDON', front sight; tang engraved with floral motifs, lever; backward spring locks signed 'E. M. REILLY & CO LONDON' and finely engraved with floral motifs, briar root stock with checkered grip and palm rest, mounts decorated en suite. Serial number '33269'.
length 113 cm.
.....Comment: March, 2017 auction. SN would indicated is was numbered somewhere close to 1895-6.
https://www.auction.fr/_fr/lot/a-fine-do...65#.WRST2BiZPMU

33619
Name: (no name on rib since it was rebarreled)
Description: Sidelock SxS now with steel barrels, sleeved by Westley Richards 50 years ago; 28” Barrels; Stock:14 “; Chokes:1/2 & FullTrigger:2
…..Comment: Per SN the gun should have been numbered around 1896.
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/reilly-em

34330
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET,
Description: Trčs fin Fusil E.M. REILLY & Co cal.410 (n°34330) ŕ chiens extérieurs et percussion centrale. Ouverture par clé serpent latérale. Canons juxtaposés de 66 cm. Crosse anglaise en beau noyer
....Comment: Very fine rifle EM REILLY & CO; 410 hammer gun - center fire. Opens by lateral key. Double barrel - 26”. The serial number would put it close to 1897-8.
http://www.coutaubegarie.com/html/fiche....amp;aff=&r=



34478
Name: E.M REILLY, LONDON
Description: E.M. Reilly of London 12g. with lovely 30" nitro proofed Damascus barrels and cased
.....Comment: Box lock; Damascus, 30” barrels; 6lbs, 13 oz. Per the serial number probably numbered in 1897 or 98.
http://www.vintagedoubles.com/catalog/?keywords=REILLY

34xxx ??
Name: E.M. Reilly (rest of the address not stated)
Description: SxS 12 bore 1898 sidelock ejector. Restocked 1975;
reproofed 1975.
…..Comment: Cannot identify a serial number from the pics. an
1898 Reilly should be around SN 34700. It could have either 16
New Oxford Street or 277 New Oxford Street.
[url=Thttps://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/130046-Rare-EM-Reilly-side-by-side][url=Thttps://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/130046-Rare-EM-Reilly-side-by-side][url=Thttps://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/130046-Rare-EM-Reilly-side-by-side]Thttps://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/130046-Rare-EM-Reilly-side-by-side[/url][/url][/url]

Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., NEW OXFORD STREET & RUE SCRIBE PARIS
Description: Carabine-Express Reilly, ŕ percussion centrale, chiens extérieurs. 2 coups, calibre « 500 », extracteur. Canons juxtaposés, en damas tabac, de 66 cm, marqué sur la bande « E.M. Reilly & Co New Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris ». Bascule, platines signées « E.M. Reilly & Co London » et chiens finement gravés de rinceaux feuillagés, jaspés. Double détentes. Crosse demi-pistolet, ŕ joue, en noyer de 37 cm, en partie quadrillé. Dans une valise recouverte de cuir décoré de cloutage en laiton, garni ŕ l’intérieur de feutre vert.
.....Comment: Sold for 1200 euros 23 Nov 2007. This is a 500 express SxS rifle hammer gun. Barrels are Damascuss, 26”. Case color. No serial number. Unfortunately, the best it can be dated with this limited data is after the opening of Rue Scribe and before its closing between Feb 1868-Aug 1886.
http://fraysse.net/listings/carabine-exp...-coups-calibre/

Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., 16 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: Fusil de chasse EM Reilly, ŕ percussion centrale, chiens extérieurs. 2 coups, calibre 410, extracteur. Canons juxtaposés de 66 cm, marqué sur la bande « EM Reilly & C° 16 New Oxford St London ». Bascule et platines arričres signées « EM Reilly &C° », gravées de rinceaux feuillagés. Clef d'ouverture sur le coté gauche. Crosse en noyer de 36 cm, en partie quadrillé. Poids : 1,890 kg.
.....Comment: EM Reilly 410 shotgun. 26” barrels. Hammer gu. Top key breaks left. Weight (an astonishing 4 lbs 2 oz.). This gun might be identical to 34330 above. Address of 16 New Oxford Street would put it after the renumbering of Oxford Street - post January 1882 and without Rue Scribe likely between 1886 and 1898. Can’t say more without a serial number or other info.
http://www.alliance-encheres.com/fr/lot.php?idvente=650&idlot=148121

Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET,
Description: Prestigieuse maison londonienne du XIX°, ce type de verrouillage était leur signature sur les modčles artisanaux prestigieux. Maison créée ŕ Londre en 1847 et installée au 502 New Oxford Street, par pčre et fils Reilly. En 1859 J.C Reilly devient Reilly & Co et ouvre une seconde adresse au 315 Oxford Street, dans les anciens locaux de Joseph Manton, ŕ côté ŕ James Purdey. En 1869 une nouvelle adresse s"ouvre, cette fois ci ŕ Paris, au 2 Rue Scribe.ccCette adresse française sera fermé en 1872. En 1884, Reilly de retour en France, s’installera au 29 rue du Faubourg St Honoré. Cette derničre adresse fermera en 1898.
Cet exemplaire, en trčs trčs bel état, date d'entre 1869 et 1872. En calibre 12, chose rare ŕ cette époque, il est équipé d'autant plus rares canons de 76 cm.
.....Comment: 2 1/2. 30” Damascus barrels. Front side lock w/exterior hammers. Description in French is fraught with errors, especially the history of Reilly. It claims the gun dates between 1869 and 1872. However, it gives no SN or address on the rib of the gun, thus this cannot be confirmed.
http://www.naturabuy.fr/Fusil-REILLY-Co-...em-3743065.html

Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., 277 OXFORD STREET,
Description: Fusil de chasse ŕ platines Reilly. 2 coups, calibre 12/65, éjecteurs. Canons juxtaposés de 76 cm,marqué sur la bande " E.M. Reilly & Co 277 Oxford Street London ". Chokes droit : lisse,. 729, épaisseur. 30 ; gauche : ľ,. 728, épaisseur. 31. Bascule et platines signées " E.M. Reilly & Co ", gravées de rinceaux feuillagés. Double détentes. Sűreté automatique. Crosse en noyer de 38,5 cm, avec rallonge de 3,5 cm, en partie quadrillé. 3,256 kg (fort avantage ŕ droite)
....Comment: Auction in Paris; sold for 2,000 Euros. 12 gauge, 2 1/2”. 30” barrels. Sidelock. double triggers; automatic safety. Weighs 7 lbs 3oz. Without additional info, the gun can only be dated after the numbering change on New Oxford street…post January 1882.
http://www.millon-associes.com/html/fich...mp;aff=3&r=

140451
Name: E.M Reilly, London
Description: A 16 bore side by side box lock shotgun by E. M. Reilly, Serial No. 140451, 29.5ins blued steel barrels, top rib engraved "E.M. Reilly, London", bright steel lock with minimal decoration, walnut stock and fore end with chequered grip, 47ins overall. 6 lbs, 5 oz.
….Commment: Gun was numbered after the takeover of the company by Charles Riggs in 1917. I have no idea on dating these guns throught SN sequence because of lack of records.
https://www.thecanterburyauctiongalleries.com/Lot/?sale=FA081215&lot=640&id=32651

http://www.vintagedoubles.com/catalog/?keywords=REILLY

150570
Name: E.M Reilly & Co., London
Description: E.M. Reilly, 12 ga. Boxlock non-ejector game gun. 28" barrels, 2-1/2" chambers. Stock probably re-finished at some time, wood flush with metal. Splinter foreend with ebony or horn (?) insert. Choked Cylinder and Modified. Modest hand cut engraving, nearly all of the case color present. Barrels most likely re-blacked at some time. Rib engraved "E.M. Reilly, London". Barrels have Birmingham proofs. Action floor plate turning plum. 6# 12 oz, 14-3/4" LOP, 1-5/8" DAC, 2-5/8" DAH, slight cast off for right hand.
Comments: Appears to be a gun built after the takeover of the company by Charles Riggs in 1917.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/657819226
Hi Argo,

I am attempting to establish the manufacture date of ser. no. 24850, as being before 1898. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
WELL this may help

http://www.heritageguns.co.uk/Reilly%2012%20SLE%2035079/Reilly%2012%20SLE%2035079%20Details.htm

no. 35079
Date of manufacture: pre 1896

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=270014
==================================================================================================
24850 (Late 1882)



SXS, I don't have your gun in the master list. We like to see pics and obtain some additional info for historical purposes if possible. Does your gun have "Rue Scribe" or Paris on the rib?

Per the above chronology and serial number list, I'd estimate 24850 to have been numbered between November 1883 and February 1884.

Analysis or how you can use those serial number lists to date your gun:
— 15270 is the first Paris address on a rib I've found; he opened Rue Scribe in early Feb 1868 (see the History chronology - 3rd post on this line).
— 26584 is the last gun I've found with a Paris address; he closed Rue Scribe in August 1886.

Between Feb 68 and Aug 86 (222 months) he numbered about 11,200 guns; that would be about 50+ numbered guns a month at a steady rate (and it obviously fluctuated).(on reflection this production rate stayed pretty steady from 1868 to 1898 - perhaps this was the maximum he could produce?)..say 620 a year.

So just assuming this is correct, your gun would be about the 9,600th numbered gun produced after he opened Rue Scribe… 192 months after Feb 1868 = 16 years. So I’d estimate it to be have been made in Feb-March 1884...counting forward from the 1868 marker date.

You can also count backward from the August 1886 marker date. 26584 is the last gun numbered before the close of Rue Scribe, August 1886. Your gun was the 1,734th gun numbered before the close of Rue Scribe - at 50 a month = about 34 months. August 1886 minus thirty four months would put it in Nov/Dec 1883.

To check further...look at the patents on your gun. It may have the following:
1863 - Patent: 'Purdey Bolt' patent no. 1104
1864 - Patent: 'Scott Spindle' patent no. 2752
1872 - Patent: Anson's fore-end fastener patent no. 3791
1874 - Patent: Needham patented a hammerless, barrel-cocking gun which was also the first ejector in 1874.
1875 - Patent: W.M. Scott's patent 3223
1875 - Patent: Anson & Deely patent; the first hammerless gun with top lever.
1878 - Patent: Mills 3rd bite patent no 4980
1878 - Patent: Patent Number 761 was recorded by William Middleditch Scott and Thomas Baker

It should not have the later patents seen on Reilly's such as:
1889 - Patent; Southgate lockwork, ejector and interceptor sear patent no 12314
1893 - Patent; Southgate's ejector trip patent no 8239
And Skeetz, Thanks for the reference. Re the first link, please check the above postings (second page) on this line: Here is what Toby Barclay had to say about 35079:

"Argo44, I sold 35079 a few years back but checked my listing and the address was 277 Oxford Street. However the proof marks showed the gun was probably PROOFED pre-1896 so maybe made for stock and then finished and numbered accordingly.... Congratulations for having put this information together."

And here was my response:

"Thanks Toby - I've fixed 35079 on the list. It's interesting that the barrels were proofed pre-1896; Per the serial number you'd think it should have been numbered/finished about 1901-02 or so, depending on how many guns Reilly was selling (per a later post below, it looks as if he were selling about 130 per year from 1898-1903). If Reilly stockpiled barrels and actions, maybe that was how they were able to respond to orders with alacrity.
"I also wonder if Reilly started falling on hard times about this time. EM had died and he was highly respected apparently and quite a marketing genius. There are a number of SN's in the 35000's per above which were matched pair double-guns, which would seem to indicate not everything was going right (did Reilly's sons start pillaging its stocks to create "matched pairs?).
"Sales of numbered guns had declined from an average of 650/year to 130/yr. And I can't find any number above 35631 (listed as a matched pair above)(was this a sale? two for the price of one?).
"Well, the industry was changing; it must have been hard to compete with the factories. Damascus barrels were oh so 19th century. (and there was a smear campaign being waged against them which continues to this day). A way of life was ending."

And re the second link, If you read through the historical post (1st page, 3rd post on this line) and the other postings including the serial number chronology on this line, I modestly believe you'll find that this line has the most comprehensive information available on Reilly's anywhere and has corrected errors that have been in print for decades.


Thank you to skeettx for the response, and especially to Argo44 for all the time spent tabulated all this information.

This has been a great help in determining specifics on a manufacturer, that has previously had little information to draw from.
Some pics of my Reilly Serial# 33950 for this thread. Sidelock ejector with 30" steel barrels....





The pin position is different from what is normally seen but I think it is 7 pin.





==================================================================================================
33950. (early 1896)



O, I got 33950 early on from your DGS 2012 line and it's in the master list on the 3rd page. I'd estimate 33950 was numbered sometime in early 1896 (depending on the month 16 New Oxford closed) although this is a little more problematical than the period 1868-1886 as follows:

Analysis:
26584 is the last SN I've found with Rue Scribe on it, closed Aug 1886.
34723 (My gun) is the last gun found with 16 New Oxford St...closed 1898 (I have not determined the month - will work on that)

In 12 years (say 144 months) from 1886-98 he numbered 8,140 guns about 56 a month - 670 a year if he produced at a steady rate. Yours is 773 numbers before 16 New Oxford Street closed... meaning it should have been numbered about 14 months beforehand.

Here's the problem. EM died in 1890 and his business was taken over presumably by his 19 year old son Charles and/or his wife or partners (unknown). Toby Barclay noted that his 35079 barrels had been proofed before 1896 but the SN indicates it was numbered around 1902. So something seems not quite right business-wise with the firm from this distance and the closure of 16 New Oxford Street itself was an indication business was slowing down. It would be interesting to take a look at your barrel proof marks to see when they were proofed.

Whatever, 33950 is a totally elegant and beautifully proportioned shotgun with tasteful etching. It's what made me put my hand on my 34723 hammer gun at that gun show in 2015 and once I touched it I just couldn't unclench my fist.
My apologizes for not following up on a posting I made in 2010 and adding some information that may add to your chronological listings.Said posting can be found at this address
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191402&page=all
xxxxx - (1880’s?)
Name: Not mentioned.
Description: E.M.Reilly bar-in wood 12 bore with Whitworth steel barrels circa 1885 with 2 3/4" chambers,30" mod. and full and nitro proofed. It has a large capital "B" in 24 carat gold where the oval
Comment: This is Terry Lubinski’s gun…He could add more info including SN, and address on rib, etc.
The gun is serial # 303xx and has only the 277 Oxford St. address not the Rue Scribe.What may be helpful is that the original black powder proofs include Not For Ball which should place the gun at 1887 or earlier.The gun is a personal favorite and still performs regular service at sporting clays
==================================================================================================
303xx (late 1888-1889)



Terry, according to the serial numbers your gun should have been numbered in early 1892. So why the "not for Ball" on the gun when that mark expired in 1887? Toby's gun 35079 had the barrels proofed before 1896 but they weren't mated with a stock/action and numbered until about 1902. So it looks like Reilly had barrels stockpiled waiting for an order. Can you read the proof date on your barrels? I'll check mine on 34723 tonight...I suspect we'll find a pattern.

I'm adding your gun to the new list of SN's above moving it from the "xxx"'s.
Argo, thanks for your help in swaying me toward this purchase and tentative dating of early months in 1869. #15857 12 gauge with non-rebounding hammers. 7lbs, 7 oz, 30" bbls, and very shootable dimensions. Would like to see more contrast in the finish of the barrels so perhaps a re-refinish is in order. Otherwise absolutely love it!





==================================================================================================
15857 (1869)



Beautiful hammergun JB. The tiger striped French Walnut stock reminds me of my own but a deeper color. That is a bargain.
Terry Buffum, I posted the Reilly SN's you auctioned off that I was able to pull off the internet; SxS40 added several that I did not get that I'll add to my next SN chronological update. But if you have a list of your Reillys, could you check over my list and tell me if any are missing? Also, if you have another JC Reilly as you mentioned, I'd very much like to get its SN and the address off the rib...I don't have a lot of data points from the early years. Thanks:

Reilly's auctioned by Terry that are in the original chronology:

176 (pistols)
13033
14985
15283
15531
18550 - (from an addendum I'm still compiling)
20396
21761 - (from a subsequent list posted in the line)
21883
24354
24850 - (from an addendum not yet posted)
27570
30207
32667
32974
34221
34222
34247
35472
35493

Terry's Reilly's bought by SxS 40 not yet added to the chronological list:

No 7869 - J C Reilly, percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader, 12ga. rib marked J C Reilly New Oxford St. London
No 15287 - Jones under lever hammer gun 12ga. rib marked, Oxford St. London
No 14985 - Jones under lever hammer gun, 16ga. rib marked, E M Reilly Oxford St. London
No 21761 - Woodward snap action with side bolts, quadra bolt? 500 BPE rifle
barrels marked E M Reilly New Oxford St. London & Rue Scribe Paris
No 22093 - Woodward snap action, 12ga. no rib or barrel markings
No 24850 - Back action side lock, hump back, H&H style, 12ga. New barrels by Darlow's of Norwich, marked on rib
No 26557 - Jones under lever hammer gun, 20ga. barrels marked, EM. Reilly Gun & Rifle maker, 16 New Oxford St & Rue Scribe Paris
Argo 44,
If you will give me your e-mail address, I will send you the consignment list for Amoskeag. See your PMs.

I'll also get out the two Reillys I still have (and look for others I've tucked away and forgotten) and send the info on them in the next few days.

Terry
I had two images of the Dave Wesbrook photos scanned and reduced for posting. If someone is willing to do that for me, I can email them to you.

My profile has e-mail info.
Terry, I'll post them. Sending you an email via PM. (I've never heard of someone who's not sure how many Reilly's might still be "tucked away" somewhere. You are a walking encyclopedia.
Here are Terry's images of the Dave Wesbrook photos of his bar-in-wood Reilly (Attendance at Vegas is going to go up): (Terry, what's the SN and the address on the rib ?)(if it has one; assume it's been rebarrelled at some point?)

And here is his consignment list (had to break it up into parts to get the photo site to accept it). I go through an extract the Reilly's for the SN chronology

The amazing thing is I spent months collecting the SN's and chronicling the actions and address on the ribs of Reilly's. I got a library of about 220 (less than 1% of Reilly's numbered guns) and was able to make some historical judgements from that. Terry just sold 75...you heard it 75..fully 33% of the guns I found....and he still has more lying around someplace!!:







Frustrating when an auction house like this is to niggardly with information about the gun; no SN, name on rib nothing. but it weighs 9 lbs + has 34"+ barrel, and a 3 1/2 chamber. Non rebounding hammer patented in 1867 so say pre-1870?...with probably EM Reilly, New Oxford St and possibly post Feb 1868 wit Rue Scribe as well? (difficult to say). (I probably already have catalogued this gun someplace).
http://gavingardiner.com/BidCat/detail.asp?SaleRef=0032&LotRef=243

Serial is 27750, address on left tube is E. M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London.

Barrels are original, Whitworth Compressed Steel, bores marked 12/14 on both, Not for Ball
Thanks. Turns out I did have that gun, just mislabeled it as "27570." I'd estimate that 27750 was made in the late Spring, early summer 1888. We noticed that some Reilly barrels had traits which would date them somewhat earlier than the gun SN would indicate (not for ball on the barrels for instance)....meaning Riley may have stockpiled barrels.
==================================================================================================
1847 - 57 - JC Reilly and the "7000" series numbers


I’d like to repost some recent conclusions on the Reilly SN chronology in one place for the record.

First to reiterate the background.

— Reilly (JC and EM) numbered about 35,600 guns (minus about a 5000 gap in 1847 + about another 1,000 number by JC after 1847 as detailed below...i.e. 30,000 more or less) between the beginning of his business as a gun builder in the 1820’s until the business dwindled away in the run-up to WWI.

— We don’t know when he made “number 1”. However, one can speculate that this was in the late 1820’s. He was a silver plateworker/engraver and likely engraved guns to start off with. London Times 5 Jan 1831 reported a theft at Reilly’s shop and identified him as “gunmaker and silversmith.” The first ads in London papers for Reilly guns, new and used, began appearing in 1834.

— His first store (1816?-1835) was at 12 Middle Row, Holborn. Believe that the address on the ribs of his guns while at this shop included the phrase “Holborn Bars.” The earliest Reilly long gun I’ve found is SN 162. There are also Terry Buffum’s dueling pistols SN 176 which look to be in the main-stream Reilly SN chronology. Below is a drawing of the building which stuck out into the street where his 12 Middle Row was located. It was demolished in the 1870’s.



— In August 1835 Reilly moved from 12 Middle Row, Holborn to 315 High Holborn. He was there for 17 years. EM at the age of 24 years became a partner in 1840. The first number found with High Holborn on the rib of a long gun is 1174; there is a pistol with “High Holborn” on the rib SN 1024 which may fall in the main Reilly SN chronology. The last gun with High Holborn on the rib is 3329. The guns from this period had the name “Reilly,” “J.C. Reilly,” or “Joseph Charles Reilly.”

— In March 1847 Reillys moved to 502 New Oxford Street where the store remained for 50+ years. The first gun with this address is SN 8463. A history of Reilly postulated that upon the move to 502 New Oxford St., the SN chronology was bumped up to 8,400 and begun anew and ascended with unbroken regularity up to 35,600 +. It could be logically said that the Reilly’s did this in round numbers, 5,000 perhaps, meaning their last gun at High Holborn would have been 3,400 or thereabouts, confirming the SN of the last gun from High Holborn above.

The evidence for the renumbering of Reilly’s beginning at 8,400 in 1847 is overwhelming: Case label from 502 Oxford Street, gun SN 8463. Note “removed from High Holborn” (moved from High Holborn) still on label.



Similar label found on an 1847 air-cane.



Now, however, three SN’s in the 7,900 series have been discovered, all with an address 502 New Oxford Street, and “J.C. Reilly” on the ribs….two long guns and one air cane. These are posted below. The logical conclusion is that in 1847, when the firm moved to New Oxford St, Edward Michael, then 31 years old and soon to be author of a widely disseminated pamphlet on air cane guns, took over the management of the family firm; it kept its name “J.C. Reilly” for awhile; but soon used just “Reilly” on the ribs of its guns. Then in late 1858 the firm began using E.M Reilly marking the end of the transition from JC to EM.

The tentative conclusion on the numbering problem is this:

— Upon the move to 502 New Oxford Street, EM Reilly began numbering long guns beginning with 8400 and using the name “Reilly” on the rib (while retaining for awhile the JC Reilly mark on the case labels.)

— But, it’s also likely that J.C. Reilly, the old man, kept a batch of serial numbers for himself, perhaps to use with long standing customers and that these serial numbers began at 7,900. If this were the case he only made about 800 more guns before he retired entirely and moved to the countryside in the late 1850’s. He died in 1864. Here are the three guns/canes with numbers in the 7,900 series.

7201. **???**
Name: Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London
Description: A mid 19th Century single barrel percussion action gun, by Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London, numbered 7201, the muzzle loading barrel holding brass mounted ebony ramrod under, signed to top and lockplate, engraved steel mounts with feather scrolls to walnut butt and stock, in original mahogany fitted case with maker's label to inner lid; two Sykes patent shot flasks, one with embossed leather bag; one Reilly shot tin; and other fittings. Hammer Price: Ł700.00
.....Comment: June 2016 auction; muzzle loader. Its been assumed that EM Reilly began consecutive SN beginning at 8,400 when they moved to 502 New Oxford Street and this is born out by labels and serial numbers. However, If this SN is correct, it may mean that EM Reilly began serial numbering his wares beginning at SN 8,400 upon arriving at 502 while JC Reilly kept the old numbering system or began anew at around 7,000, separating their production to some extent. This JC Reilly has the 502 address meaning post 1847 but the number just doesn't fit the Reilly progression. This is not clear - did JC number guns on his own? Or is the entry wrong? - more examples are needed..
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...20-a61700c0a9c0

7801 ??
Name: REILLY, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: REILLY LONDON A RARE CASED 28-BORE PERCUSSION COMBINATION WALKING-STICK GUN serial no. 7801. circa 1845 comprising of a 28 3/4in. re-browned octagonal damascus rifle barrel signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON` (renewed) small dove-tailed crescent fore-sight blued standing notch rear-sight with one folding leaf a 29 3/4in. re-browned damascus round shot barrel with octagonal breech section (unsigned) and an unsigned octagonal 32-bore 3in. re-browned damascus pistol barrel (probably a later addition) matching period London proofs together with a percussion under-hammer squared boxlock action with guarded trigger the top-tang signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON`

Comment:
--this is an early Reilly after they moved to 502 New Oxford Street in late March 1847. It has he picture of 502 indicating it is post 1848-9. For the first 12 months or so after the move the wrote "removed from Holborn" on the labels.
--The SN is interesting because if his air-gun canes were numbered in the same series as his long guns, this is the earliest number after the move. I’ve speculated that EM and JC just jumped numbers up from about 4.500 to 8,400 after the move. However, this cane if the SN is in the long-gun series will change that.
-- (the auction house is wrong; the cane can’t be 1845 and have the New Oxford Street address - see the chronology)
-- Note: I’ve found a JC REILLY shotgun with the 502 New Oxford Street address with a serial number 7280. This is outside of the EM Reilly numbering system - the earliest I found was 8463, which had the label "502 New Oxford" plus "removed from Holborn." (posted below) This makes me wonder whether Joseph Charles and E.M split their serial numbering at this time. i.e. J.C. may have continued with his own numbering system and let EM begin anew with SN’s after 8,400). This will be investigated further. (or it could be that the "7" is actually a "9")
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...f6-a4340134dc99

Label is from the 1858-55 time period



7869
J C Reilly, percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader, 12ga. rib marked J C Reilly New Oxford St. London. Terry Buffum gun bought by SXS40(HWK). I'd really like to see the photos of the barrel flats etc. It's an important gun!

edit: Amazing photos posted here:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=498105#Post498105

I'll try to get you photos by the end of the day.
Here is a list of Terry's Reilly's sold at auction. I think at some point I'll combine all the SN chronologies above including the Terry SN's I didn't have into a new chronological post and this time date them. I should have some time over the next few weeks.

You'll note that 7869 is not mentioned in the spread sheet list. Terry also did not record the name on the rib or the address in his spread sheet. For me the most interesting ones for the historical reasons are
-- 1060 (after a certain time period Reilly stop putting his pistols in his long-gun series but I believe 176 and 1060 may belong; 176 had Holborn Bars and JC Reilly on the ribs; 1060 should have High Holborn and J.C. Reilly if it's in the long gun chronology).
-- 1869 - should be JC Reilly and High Holborn address
-- 3402 - should be JC Reilly and High Holborn; - maybe one of the last guns numbered there before the move to New Oxford St.

Red = additional info/pictures please

176 Brace of percussion dueling pistols
1060 Percussion pocket pistol

1869 SxS percussion hammer gun, 10 ga, cased w/oil bottle etc.
3402 SxS percussion hammer gun .577, cased
13033 SxS pinfire hammer gun, 20 ga rifle. Jones underleer, Damascus barrels, cased,
14985 SxS hammer gun, 16 ga. Jones Patent underlever;
15283 SxS hammer gun 12 ga; ones patent underlever, caed
17476 SxS hammer gun, 12 ga. Purdy thumb snap patent, canvas case
17392 Side lever hammer gun 16 ga
18550 Double rifle, .577 BPE, cased
19827 SxS Hammerless, back-action side lock, 12 ga, side lever opening
20396 SxS hammer gun, 20 ga. Damascus barrels, case
21761 Double Rifle 500, Purdy patent, cased
21883 SxS hammer gun 20 ga
22093 Woodward Automatic 12 ga., case
23818 Side Lever Rook Rifle 22 LR (relined)
24354 SxS 12 ga
24627....................500 BPE 28" barrels
24672 Lang Trigger Plate 16 ga
25460 SxS hammerless back-action side lock, 12 ga. Live pigeon gun. Case
27377 SxS 12 ga. W&C Scott Crystal Indicator Action, 3 barrel set; Nitro proof 3rd barrel steel/sleeved
27570 SxS hammer gun, 16 ga,
27854 SxS W&C Scott Crystal Indicator Action, Side lever 12 Ga, case
26537 SxS hammer gun, 28 ga, Jones Patent underlever
30342 SxS hammerless box lock, 12 ga. Live pigeon gun, Damascus barrels, case
30207 SxS 10 bore
30846 double rifle, Anson and Deely action w/ Greener cross bolt 45 cal
32667 SxS hammer gun 10 ga
32974 SxS hammer gun, 12 ga.
34221 SxS hammer gun, 450 nr 2 musket -pair
34222 SxS hammer gun, 16 ga shotgun
34247 SxS hammerless box lock, 12 ga, Damascus barrels, case
35493 SxS hammer gun box lock 16 ga

------SN absent or unclear -----
?1859 SxS hammer gun active side lock - mixed numbers sleeved.
n/a Percussion Single barrel 6 bore
n/a Percussion Rifle. 50 cal
n/a Single shot tip up pistol
==================================================================================================
1820's - c1837 +. - Reilly and serial numbered pistols


I guess I'm testing you all...writing a book on line. But here are some early Reilly pistols which are relevant (Terry Buffum see below re 1060):

I mentioned above that by about 1840, Reilly pistols no longer were numbered in the Reilly long-gun chronology…this divorce might have occurred even earlier. (you can see several non-numbered guns from the High Holborn period). i.e if Reilly didn't make it, it wasn't numbered in his series. (Note: The labels in the cases, however are extremely interesting, usually have been more protected than long-gun cases. The dates of manufacture of the Reilly retailed pistols/revolvers can date the labels which in turn can help confirm dates of long guns.)

But it looks like that at least very early on the pistols were numbered chronologically and are part of Reilly history. Here are several Reilly pistols that look to be in the logical early chronology. They are mixed in with a few long gun serial numbers which give them credibility

176 (Pistol) (if the SN is right, this is one of the very earliest Reillys)_
Name: J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS, LONDON
Description: Serial #176, .50 caliber, 8 3/4" smooth bore octagon barrels with lightly oxidized bores. The tops of the barrels are each marked "J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS, LONDON" and each lock is engraved "J.C. REILLY". The locks and hammers show lovely flowing foliate scroll with panoplies of arms engraved on the hammers. The bolsters are equipped with platinum blow out plugs. The barrels feature double silver bands at breeches with nicely engraved tangs. The triggerguards are also engraved with stylized pineapple shaped finials and panoplies of arms on bow of triggerguard.
Comment: Do not know if Reilly hand-guns used his sequential Serial Numbering, These pistols though, along with the one below may have. Note rounded butts.-
Terry Boffum owned these guns and can clarify a lot.
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/108/283.html



xxxx (Pistol) (pre-1835 - Holborn Bars; but no Reilly SN)
Name: J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, LONDON
Description: British Mid 19th Century Pocket Pistol, comprising: Small [Overall Length 14cm] Muzzle Loading Percussion Pocket Pistol, Proof Marks to Underside of 5.5cm Barrel. Complete with Foliate Decoration, Bag Shaped Walnut Grip & Folding Trigger.
Comment: Holborn Bar indicates this pistol if pre 1835 before the move to High Holborn.
http://www.vectis.co.uk/Page/ViewLot.aspx?LotId=598875&Section=0&Start=320



1024 - (Pistol) - If this is a Reilly SN, it is post 1835 - pre 1840?
Address: Reilly 316 Holborn London
Description: erkussions-Terzerolpistole um 1840 Joseph Charles Reilly London
achtkantiger, glatter Lauf, im Kaliber 8,5 mm, mit leichter Gravur an Laufmündung, sowie Signatur auf der Oberseite "Reilly 316 Holborn London". Mit Rankendekor graviertes Perkussionsschloss, Abzug klappt bei Spannung des Hahnes aus.
Comment: Pistol….interesting serial number. rounded butt
http://online.auktion-zwack.de/de/perkus...mp;currentpos=9



1060 (not a Reilly SN per below)
Percussion pocket pistol.
Terry, history needs some photos. Thanks.
edit: Terry tells me it was a pocket percussion revolver - A check on the aution show it is labeled "E.M. Reilly" placing it in late 1850's..(it looks earlier, wonder if it was just "Reilly" on the rib?). This is the problem with trying to use SN's for dating pistols marketed by Reilly. He didn't put his numbers on any gun he didn't make.



1292 (Pistol) - If this is a Reilly SN, the gun should be 1835-1840. High Holborn
Address: Reilly, London
Description: Miniature 120-Bore Box-Lock Percussion Pocket Pistol By Reilly of London, Circa 1850. With round turn-off barrel engraved with a band of foliage at the breech.
Comment: Percussion miniature pistol, typical of early Reilly’s; believe he manufactured this. Note the rounded butt…seems to be a marker.
https://www.garthvincent.com/a-miniature-120-bore-box-lock-percussion-pocket-pistol-by-reilly-of-london%2C-circa-1850.-1597/



xxxx. (no SN - High Holborn - 1835-47; no SN)
English folding trigger percussion single shot pistol with barrel marked “Reilly 316 Holborn London”, .54 cal., 3-1/2” octagon barrel with swivel ramrod and belt hook, checkered wood grips, engraved frame.
http://www.icollector.com/English-foldin...Londo_i12499548



xxxx (possibly High Holborn - 1835-47; no SN on a pair of high-end lady's guns)
Engraved and Silver-Inlaid Small English Boxlock Percussion Muff Pistols by Reilly, c. 1840frames marked: Reilly/London.
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20britannique/artisan%20p%20q%20r/a%20reilly%20gb.htm




xxxx (Pistol). Between 1835 and 1840? - no SN
Name: JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON
Description: .50 caliber pistol with a 10-inch octagonal barrel measures 15-inches in overall length. Wood ramrod with flared brass cap, brass section at rear unscrews exposing the worm. Top of barrel marked "JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON." London proof marks. Platinum blowout plug on nipple drum. One barrel key with oval silver escutcheons. The brown Damascus finish slightly worn. Nicely grained walnut half-stock with bag grip and black horn forend cap; oval silver thumbpiece. Sunburst engraved around center screw. Iron trigger guard and ferrules; stylized pineapple finial with tassel, center portion engraved in shell pattern.

Note the similarity to 176 above...platinum blowout plugs, beautiful Damascus barrels, etc....It could be a twin. It was only 12 years difference from 176 might have been made say around 1828? to this gun - made circa 1840? maybe...but the formula still worked. (but check out the snazzy wood ramrod)(a replacement?)

http://www.aaawt.com/html/firearms/f296.html

==================================================================================================
25711. (1883)




Excuse me? $27,500-42,500? are those US dollars?

MASSIVE 8 BORE E. M. REILLY DOUBLE RIFLE WITH CASE AND AMMUNITION, SUBJECT OF DOUBLE GUN JOURNAL ARTICLE.
SN 25711. Cal. 8 Bore. (.850 Groove diameter, 11 grooves). 3-1/4″ Chambers. 28″ Fine Damascus bbls are fitted with broad file cut matted rib (with dolls head extension), holding one standing, three folding leaf express rear, and small silver bead front, sights. Tops of bbls are engraved “E. M. Reilly & Co” and “502 New Oxford St. London”. Bbl flats are stamped with London black powder proofs for 9 bore, and with SN. A large sling eye is soldered to bottom rib. Robust round bodied underlever action is fitted with peninsula back locks having large rebounding round bodied serpentine hammers, and front sliding safety bolts which engage at half cock. Rifle was originally of very plain finish with only border engraving and a few sprays of scroll around pin holes on locks. Rifle has had extensive gold damascened embellishment consisting of 3/4″ floral and foliate bands at muzzles with 1/8″ bands around breeches, as well as line and beaded borders on action and locks which also have some extra areas embellished with scroll. Top of right bbl was also damascened “H. H. Maharana Shree Warhatsingji Loonawara”
https://jamesdjulia.com/item/1382-396/

Earlier I mentioned a percussion rifle (single barrel) I still have with a skull and cross bones and "Veni, Vedi, Vici" engraved. It seems to have gotten smaller while hiding in my safe!

Bore is just over .700, so perhaps 13 bore. Two groove, so made for those "waisted bullets". A ball with a "belly band" and a short pointed bullet with two rectangular "bumps" are in the patch box which is engraved with what I think is a red deer. Fixed leaf marked 100. Flip up rear sight leaves for 150, 200, 250 and 300.

Lock marked "Reilly", barrel marked "Reilly,New Oxford Street, London", serial number is 8025.
==================================================================================================
1847 - JC Reilly and the "7000" series


Terry, 8025 is the earliest "Reilly" (not JC Reilly) found after their move to New Oxford street and calls into question my theory that EM started renumbering 8400...unless this is a JC Reilly in plain "Reilly" livery. Amazing. What is your opinion? When did waisted bullets come out? Might this be a J.C. Reilly? (I'm starting to lean towards this - He seemed to have concentrated on percussion guns after he got to New Oxford Street.). Would love to see pictures.

edit: Preliminary research shows that one of the first experimental 2 groove rifles was used in Ceylon in 1845. This would seem to put Reilly's adoption of the system after 1847 move to New Oxford street possibly indicating 8025 is a J.C. Reilly in the "7900 series".

https://www.classicshooting.com/blogs/re...the-paradox-gun

Excerpt: "The earliest in the field of progress was the old-established firm of Purdey and Co. Mr. Purdey, before the general introduction of breechloaders, brought out an Express rifle, No. 70 bore, with a mechanically fitting two-groove solid bullet. This small projectile was a well-pointed cone weighing exactly 200 grains, with a powder charge of 110 grains, more than half the weight of the bullet. The extremely high velocity of this rifle expanded the pure soft lead upon impact with the skin and muscles of a red deer. At the same time there was no loss of substance in the metal, as the bullet, although much disfigured, remained intact, and continued its course of penetration, causing great havoc by its increased surface. Nothing has surpassed this rifle in velocity, although so many improvements have taken place since the introduction of breechloaders, but in the days of muzzle-loaders it was a satisfaction to myself that I was the first to commence the heavy charge of powder with the 3 ounce bullet and 16 drams, to be followed after many years by so high an authority as Mr. Purdey with a 200 grain bullet and 110 grains of powder, thus verifying the principle of my earliest experience."

edit 2: Terry Buffum said that 8025 has the feel of an EM Reilly. He said JC's stocks tended to be straight grained and somewhat dull. EM used more interesting maple (and a lot of French maple later on). I still am not yet ready to abandon the 8400 mark for EM on the move to New Oxford Street. It's possible that EM stocked 8025 while JC made it.

Still, I feel a little like I'm trying to squeeze facts into a pre-constructed theory based on 8463 and that "Removed from Holborn" label. We'll continue to gather data. and I have a feeling a lot of it is still in Terry Buffum's safes.

Any info turn up on the other two of your guns of historical interest Terry, 1869 and 3402? Address on ribs? Pictures?
I'm bothering the cognoscenti again. I thought at some point to turn the above research into something more concrete. It was recommended by a couple of the DBS usuals that I wrap it up and write an article for "Double Gun Journal." Two questions:

1). The following article appeared in Summer 2015 edition of DBJ. "E. M. Reilly: Purdey’s Pretentious Rival" by John Campbell II

I cannot read it. There has been a lot of misinformation on Reilly put out in the past. Some corrected in this line. I fear this article might have propagated some of it ...or it might be excellent. Can someone please forward this article to me for review?

2). How would I go about contacting DBJ with an outline of a piece on Reilly history to see if they'd be interested? The web site doesn't give a clue. Many thanks, Gene.

Argo,

You should contact Daniel Côte (DGJ publisher, editor, artist, etc.). The article inluding pictures is 12 pages. The contact number is 231-536-7439.

Ken
I ordered DBJ summer 2015 edition to get access to John's 12 page article. Authors and writers deserve to be paid for their work.

Afterwards a friend forwarded an advanced copy of that DBJ report, The first three paragraphs are riddled with errors. There are some neat interviews and historical photos there. But....

I don't want to start an internet fight but DBS readers - rest assured on this line you have the best historical record of Reilly anywhere,

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22220&page=2
Speaking of errors .................DBJ? Don't you mean DGJ?

SRH
touché mon ami. Tu as raison!

But really I went into reading this DGJ article with hope and came out with a feeling that the most historically important part of it was just baloney. There are some good things in John's article. I never found photos of the family,.etc. But how can you construct a history of gun building based on such erroneous information? Look..let's have an adult conversation about this (ok ok impossible on the internet).
Edit: This post is now somewhat outdated - see p. 20

The Reilly SN’s have been arranged below in an easier order to help people date their guns. There are minimal descriptions of the guns below and these concentrate on history. There are more complete descriptions in the postings above and for the links which have gone dark, I have most of the original ads and photos. Also, there are about 30 Reilly’s which have been posted on the internet without the SN’s. For the most part I’ve left these out. All have Damascus barrels unless otherwise specified. Most important “marker" dates and SN’s are in Red. The year dates are obviously estimates but they will get a user close..perhaps within a year of when his gun was numbered. (Please remember that these are estimates based on data at hand....about 200 serial numbered Reilly's have been found out of some 31,000 built over 90 years - with about another 30 guns known but with SN's not published...a decent sample. As more guns appear, some of this might change).

1820’s - August 1935. 0 - 1000? JC Reilly was a Silverplate worker at 12 Middle Row, Holborn aka Holborn Bars which he opened in 1816. He was identified as a “gun maker” in 1829 in an ad. He left Holborn Bars in August 1835. Very few examples of his work from his time at Holborn Bars are extant.

….162 - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. 14 bore. Shotgun; percussion, single-barreled muzzle-loader
….176 - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. ,50cal. Pistols; Pair of percussion dueling pistols (Buffum)
...254 - J.C. Reilly? (no address mentioned). Percussion pistol per Terry Weiland article.
..xxxx - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. 14bore. Sporting gun. Single barrel, muzzle loader. "highly figured stock" (Picture)
..xxxx - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. .45 Cal. Pistol, 14cm long muzzle loading, steel barrel, percussion pocket

August 1835 - March 1847. 1000 - 3500? In August 1835 he moved to 316 High Holborn. By 1840 his 24 year old son EM was a gunmaker and shortly around that time became partner (actual date not known). About 2500? guns numbered over 17 years - 145/year, 12/month? note: By about 1840, possibly earlier - certainly by SN 1800, Reilly no longer numbered pistols in his long-gun chronology. He did not number guns he did not build. . Note: A number of internet sources claim 316 High Holborn was the former shop of Joseph Manton. Nowhere can this be verified - another internet "urban legend."

..xxxx - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 50cal. Pistol; Percussion single-steel barrel muzzle loader
..1024 - Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 8.5mm. Pistol; Percussion hammer gun, steel barrel, pocket pistol
..1174 - J.C. Reilly (no address). 8 bore. Fowling piece; Percussion single shot, single barrel, muzzle loader.
..1272 - Reilly, London, 120 bore, Pistol; steel barrel, percussion miniature pocket pistol.
..1869 - (unknown) 10 ga. Shotgun; SxS; Percussion, hammer gun, muzzle loader (Buffum)
..xxxx - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 10 bore. Shotgun; SxS; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader "highly figured stock" (pic available)
..xxxx - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 10 bore? Shotgun; SxS; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader.
..3329 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London, 10 ga/.58 cal. Shotgun; SxS; Percussion hammer gun. Muzzle loader
..3392 -Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holburn, London. 10 ga/.58 cal; Shotgun; SxS; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader.
..3402 - (no name mentioned); .577 cal, Rifle SxS; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle Loader (Buffum).

Mar 1847 - Mid 1850’s: In March 1847 Reilly’s moved to 502 New Oxford Street. There seem to be two branches of SN’s after this move. One perhaps reserved for JC 7000-8400. The other mainstream SN chronology perhaps supervised by EM started in 1847 at 8400. (both are suppositions) But take a close look - there is 3514 from the "old" original chronology with the Oxford address; there is 7021 with the Holborn address. And there is 7201 with the Oxford address and "removed from Holborn" - i.e. 1847.

Mar 1847 - 1858/9? : 7000-8200?? "JC Reilly reserved series"? In 1858 JC would have been 72 years old, In 1859 "EM" appeared on gun ribs and advertisements perhaps marking JC's total retirement. (The fact that "Edward M. Reilly - Gunmaker" exhibited in 1851 at Crystal Palace, not "Reilly," perhaps reinforces this idea of a split in Serial Numbers as EM, the new wave, enamored with breech-loaders gradually took over). Terry Buffum believes JC Reilly stocks were more straight lined-less figured than EM's - EM's use of highly figured French walnut was a trademark of sorts commented on by others. The few surviving photos of JC stocks, though, do show some figured wood.

..7023 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 11bore. Shotgun SxS. Muzzle Loading hammer gun. (Note 7000 series but with Holborn still on the rib)
..3514 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 13bore. Shotgun SxS. Muzzle loader, hammer gun (1855-59 case label)
..7201 - Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal; Rifle, Single barrel, percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader. "Removed from Holborn"
..7801 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 28 bore; Walking cane gun.
..7869 - J.C. Reilly, New Oxford St. London; 12 ga; Shotgun; SxS percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader (Buffum).
..8025 - Reilly, New Oxford St. London; 13 bore; Rifle; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader (Buffum). (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici)
..8052 - Reilly, New Oxford St., London. 20 bore. Rifle. Percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader. (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici)

Post Mar 1847-1859 8400-10900?- This appears to be the main-line Reilly SN sequence, probably run by EM though JC appears from time to time. “Reilly” is the name on the ribs. The stocks became flamboyant. Two guns below have “Removed from Holborn” (Moved from Holbon) indicating an early 502 Oxford Street provenance (within months of the move?). - in his newspaper announcement of his move in March 1847 he used the words "will be removing" and in a follow-on ad after the move to Oxford street in Fall 1847 he used the words "Removed from Holborn"....

As for numbers, from 8400 in Mar 1847 to 10782 in 1858-9, it looks like Reilly's numbered some 2500 guns more or less in a little less than 12 years + the 1,000 odd produced by JC Reilly per above. About 240 numbered guns a year in the main SN line. 20/month. (numbers are adjusted hypothetically below to allow for an increase in production numbers over time)

1847: 8400-8580?

..8463 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London (“label-J.C. Reilly, removed from Holborn"); .390 cal. Rifle; Enfield percussion, double express, muzzle loader
..84xx - Reilly. 502 Oxford Street, London; 6 Bore; Shotgun, single barrel, percussion, hammer gun, muzzle loader.
..8578 - J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London (“removed from Holborn”); 10 bore; Shotgun SxS; hammergun, muzzle loader

1848: 8580-8760: . EM Reilly published his famous Treatise on air guns; author was identified as "Reilly, Junr - gun maker; No. 502 New Oxford Street;Removed from 316, Holborn." Edit: Internet has EM publishing this in 1850...the "removed from holborn" is key - It means it probably was published in 1847 - I'll leave 1848 as a compromise)

1849: 8760-9040:
1850: 9020-9200
1851: 9200-9400 Crystal Palace London exhibited as "Edward M. Reilly"; air-guns, etc; influenced by Lefaucheaux center break guns at the exhibition..
1852: 9400-9600;
1853: 9600-9800; .577 muzzle loading Enfield adopted by British Army; Lang produces first Brit Center-break gun designed by Hodges, copy of Lefraucheaux.
1854: 9800-10040
1855: 10040-10280; 1855 Paris Exposition Universelle. Exhibited as "E.M Reilly, 502 New Oxford St, London - Guns, rifles, etc." received much acclaim. London 1851 and Paris 1855 medals appear on his labels
1856: 10280-10520

10315 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 6bore. Shotgun; Single barrel percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader.
10354 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; .400 cal. Rifle; SxS double breech loader. (Extensive conversion 1885; 1st surviving center break gun if SN is accurate.)

1857: 10520-10760

10619 - Reilly (no details); .380 cal; Rifle, Single barrel, percussion, hammer gun, muzzle loader, “Park Rifle”
10621 - Reilly, London; .376 cal. Rifle; Single barrel, percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader.
10670 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; ?? Cal. Rifle; SxS; Percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader.

1858: 10760-11000

10782 - Reilly, New Oxford St. London. .577 cal; Rifle; single barrel breech loader, Frederic Prince patent (1855 patent).

1858/9 - 1862: 10970 - 13300 EM began to use his initials in advertisements and on gun ribs 1859. He also opened 315 New Oxford Street aka 315 Oxford Street, London (1859 advertisement containing by "EM" and "315") (see Reilly SN 12079). From 1858/9 to 1862 (See 13333, Green brothers marker below) he numbered 2,200 guns. 500/year. 40 a month. Even though he was noted as a breech loader innovator, most of the surviving guns are Muzzle loaders. The gun community was notoriously traditionalist.

(Note: "Edward M. Reilly" per internet was the name of the firm for awhile. Well this name appeared on some gun ribs in the 1850's, none serial numbered.
.....-- various percussion and multi-barrel pistols labeled "Edward M. Reilly 502 New Oxford Street,"
.....-- British Pattern 1858 .577 Enfield percussion short rifle muzzle loader.
-- He also exhibited at the 1851 Crystal Palace fair in London as "Edward M. Reilly, New Oxford St., London - Gunmaker, assortment of double guns, rifles, air-canes, pistols," etc.
-- However, I can find no ads, or mainline Serial Numbered guns with "Edward M. Reilly" on the ribs. And he exhibited at the 1855 Exposition Universelle in Paris as "E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford St., London..." Thus, unless someone turns up more evidence,
it looks like "Edward M." or "Edward Michael" was used only informally and that the story of there being an "Edward M. Reilly" company is just more Reilly urban legend. What is clear is that in
-- 1858 an ad identified the firm as "Reilly, 502 New Oxford St., and an
-- 1859 advertisement that identified the firm as "E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford with a branch establishment at 315.."


109xx? - E.M. Reilly & Co., London; 16 bore; Shotgun SxS; underlever centerbreak breech loader. (1st gun with "EM" on the rib)
11115 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12ga shotgun SxS, early Jones underlever center break hammergun.
11227 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford St., London; .577 cal. Rifle; Enfield, percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader
11645 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 100 bore; Rifle. Prince patent, single barrel, breech loader,
11651 - E.M. Reilly, Oxford St., London. .577 cal; Enfield type, percussion muzzle loader converted to Snider breech loader.
11xxx - E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street London (Reilly on case); 11mm. 4 smooth barrel, percussion, muzzle loader
12069 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 & 502 Oxford Street, London; .451 cal. Rifle; Percussion, muzzle loader. (1st "315" on a gun rib)
12532 - E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Gilded hammer gun, muzzle loader.
13033 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 20 bore; Shotgun SxS; Jones underlever, Percussion hammer gun (Buffum)
13194 - E.M. Reilly, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. back action hammer gun (parts only)(Back action must be a later addition)

1862 - Feb 1868: 13300 - 15250 London exhibition. From SN 13333 firmly identified as 1862 to 15270 firmly identified as Feb 1868, he numbered almost 2,000 guns. About 340/year. 27/month.

13333 - E.M. Reilly & Co. 502 New Oxford St., London; .577 cal. Rifle; percussion breech loader, Gun 23 of Green Bros 1862 patent - firm date.
13590 - E.M Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London. 10 bore; Rifle SxS; Percussion hammer gun muzzle loader.
13599 - E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore; Rifle SxS; 2 groove Percussion double express Hammer gun, muzzle loader.
13688 - E.M Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 20 bore; Shotgun SxS. underlever hammer gun.
14115 - E.M. Reilly (nothing further - no photos, etc). Shotgun SxS; Center break, Jones under leaver, hammer gun.
14580 - E.M. Reilly & Co. London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS; Percussion hammergun, Muzzle loader.

1866:: 14540?-14900? 1866 British army formally adopted the .577 Snider Enfield as a stop-gap breech loading rifle. Reilly built Sniders and converted some Muzzle-loading Enfields to the Snider action. Any Reilly Snider should be 1866 or later. However, unless he built them to measure, he did not seem to number them.

1867: 14900?-15240? Huge Reilly success at Paris exhibition that summer; Gold medals appear on labels;

14985 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 16 ga. Shotgun SxS; Sidelock, underlever hammer gun, (Buffum).
15129 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 Oxford St. London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS; pinfire, hammer gun, muzzle loader.
15143 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 Oxford St. London, 12ga. Shotgun SxS; underlever, hammergun.
15239 - E.M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford St., London. .577. Rifle, Snider-Enfield 2-band; Birmingham proof.

Feb 1868 - Aug 1886: 15270-27340? In Feb 1868 he opened Rue Scribe, Paris. Many of his guns subsequently had the Paris address. 15270 is the first gun with Rue Scribe. He closed it in Late 1886. 27340 is the last gun with Rue Scribe. Note: Internet "urban legend" has him closing Rue Scribe in 1872 including one author of an article in DGJ. A glance at ads and gun ribs below show this is just poor scholarship. 18.5 years. 222 mos. 12,100 guns. = about 55/mo. 660/yr. (this is a guess estimate but a good one).

There are some guns early on in the 1868-86 series that perhaps should be later in the date series - I'm thinking of the 1871 Martini Henry which seems a bit early for him to have produced and the 1873 gun that has a Needham’s Patent 18547 (which may or may not be C1874). This would indicate a production of fewer guns early on and more later.

This is a long stretch of time; The only way to narrow down the year dates is to check patents on the guns. If people look inside their Reilly's which have SN's during this period, would appreciate info on these patents - use of which (not non-use) could alter the above chronology - And I'm already thinking of altering the chronology a bit to allow for fewer guns produced early in the period and more at the end):
1872 - Patent: Anson's fore-end fastener patent no. 3791
1874 - Patent: Needham patented a hammerless, barrel-cocking gun which was also the first ejector in 1874.
1875 - Patent: W.M. Scott's patent 3223
1875 - Patent: Anson & Deely patent; the first hammerless gun with top lever.
1878 - Patent: Mills 3rd bite patent no 4980
1878 - Patent: Patent Number 761 was recorded by William Middleditch Scott and Thomas Baker


Feb 1868-Jan 1869: 15250-15800 - Also in 1868 Reilly entered into a partnership with the Belgian firm Comblain to market their breach loader in the British Army competition. There are at least 8 Reilly Comblain's around...They were adopted by Brazil Army...But I can find no Reilly serial numbers.

15270 - E.M. Reilly and Company Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris. .577. Rifle SxS; Underlever. BPE. Non-rebounding hammers.
15262 - E. M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street. London. 12ga. Rifle SxS. Black Powder proof for 13 bore.
15283 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS; Jones under lever. Buffum.
15287 - E.M. Reilly & Co. Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS'. Under lever, hammer gun. Buffum
15346 - E.M. Reilly (no further info). 12ga. Shotgun SxS; Under lever, hammer gun.
15531 - “Reilly & Co. (no address mentioned). .50cal. Rifle Single barrel. Enfield type. Hammer gun. Muzzle loader. Buffum .
15625 - E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London, 2 Rue Scribe Paris. 4bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever. Orig pinfire conv-to centerfire.

1869: 15800-16460. The internet reports that about this time E M Reilly was appointed gun maker to Napoleon III. Nowhere can I confirm this. Of Course the emperor lasted only another two years.

15857 - E.M. Reilly, 502 Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Centerbreak, underlever. Non-rebound hammers.
15961 - E.M. Reilly (no further descriptions). 12bore. Rifle SxS; Centerbreak, Underlever Hammergun.
16139 - E. M. Reilly & Co. London and Paris. 12 bore. rifle. UL, hammers, rebounding bar-locks. Gold washed presentation-1994 DGJ article
16341 - E.M. Reilly (No further descriptions). .577cal. Rifle, Snider SxS. Jones underlever; hammer gun(Weiland). First rebounding hammers (1867 patent)

1870: 16460-17120

16533 - Reilly London (address/name not stated); 16 ga. side lever, hammer gun; steel re-barrells.
16583 - E.M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford Street London. 8mm. Shotgun SxS. Smoothbore. Underlever Hammer gun.
16585 - E.M. Reilly & Co, Oxford Street, London and Rue Scribe Paris. 10ga. Rifle SxS. Underlever, Hammergun.
16607 - E.M. Reilly (no address/no photo). .577. Rifle; Single barrel. Snider Enfleld. Muzzle loader.
16765 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & 2 Rue Scribe, Paris. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Rebounding Hammergun, Extractor.
16768 - E.M. Reilly (no address given). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Underlever hammergun.
16808 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12ga, Shotgun SxS. Hammergun.
16810 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever pinfire, hammergun.
16961 - E.M. Reilly (no further descriptions). 12bore. Rifle SxS. Underlever, pinfire, hammergun.
16987 - EM Reilly & Co., 502 Oxford St., London. Rifle SxS. Hammer gun, muzzle loader.

1871: 17120-17780 In Apr 1871 British adopted the Martini-Henry and began trials throughout the empire; it was formally distributed to all regiments in 1874. Any Reilly Martini should post-date Apr 1871. He built Martini's but rarely numbered them - the below mentioned 17314 being the only example I can find.

17204 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & 2 Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore.[/color] Underlever, pinfire, no-rebound hammergun.
17314 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577/.450. Rifle single barrel. First Reilly Martini
17392 - E.M. Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. 16ga. Centerbreak, side lever hammer gun (Buffum).
17393 - E.M. Reilly, New Oxford Street, London and 2 Rue Scribe, Paris; 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Push-forwrd Underlever hammergun.
17476 - E.M. Reilly, New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever, push opener, Hammer gun (Buffum)
17495 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned); 12 bore Shotgun SxS. Underlever hammer gun. (Tomato Stake)
17591 - E.M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 8bore. Shotgun SxS. Jones underlever, hammer gun. Buffum
17612 - E.M Reilly & Co. Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Underlever, hammer gun.

1872: 17780-18440
1873: 18440-19100

18514 - E.M Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned); 8bore. Single barrel rifle; Snider Patent and Newmark's Patent
18536 - Illegible name. 20bore. Shotgun SxS. Jones underlever, back action hammergun.
18547 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 15bore. Shotgun SxS; Pinfire, U-L. Needham’s Patent 18547 C1874?-upgrade addition?
18550 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. .577BPE. Rifle SxS; (Buffum).
18595 - E.M. Reilly, London. .450BPE. Rifle SxS. BPE; Underlever hammer gun.
18763 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 10 bore. Shotgun SxS. rebounding bar locks, underlever.
18766 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 500BPE. Rifle SxS; Underlever, rebounding hammer gun.
18860 - E.M. Reilly & Co Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe. Paris. 4bore Shotgun SxS. underlever, non-rebounding hammergun.
18954 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 500BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever, rebounding hammer gun.

1874: 19100-19760
1875: 19760-20420

19827 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Side lever hammer gun. (Buffum).
19953 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 500BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L Hammer gun, Steel barrels. Round back-acton lock.
20125 - Name on barrel not published. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. French site-no other info.
20265 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577/500 Rifle SxS. underlever hammer gun.
20396 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford St., London. 20ga. Shotgun SxS. Side lever, hammer gun.

1876: 20420-21080. Reilly ads mention King of Portugal.

20467 - E.M. Reilly & Co, Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris. 12ga. Side lever hammer gun.
20468 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. 10bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever hammer gun; Purdey patent
20808 - E.M. Reilly &Co. New Oxford St, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. .500BPE. Rifle SxS. Under lever, rebounding hammer gun.
20827 - E.M. Reilly&Co ???. 10bore. Shotgun SxS. Jones underlever; rebounding sidelock hammergun.

1877: 21080-21740

21098 - E.M. Reilly & Co (no other info). 10bore. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock, bar action hammer gun, Jones under lever.
21099 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock hammer gun.
21304 - E.M. Reilly & Co (address not mentioned). .450/.500 BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever hammer gun.
21339 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12bore. Shotgun SxS (2nd of a pair). Underlever. Rebounding hammer gun.
21361 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. .450BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever, Hammer gun.

1878: 21740-22400 Exhibited at Paris Exhibition 1878

21440 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford Street, London; 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. underlever, percussion back-action locks.
21761 - E.M. Reilly & Co, New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 500BPE. Undersnaplever, Hammergun. (Buffum)
21883 - E.M. Reilly & Co (side plates); 20ga. Shotgun SxS. Underlever, rebounding hammer gun. (Buffum)
22038 - (no name in ad). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Underlever, hammergun.
22068 - E.M. Reilly & Co New Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe a Paris. 8calBPE. Rifle SxS. Back side lock hammergun.
22077 - (no name in ad). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Hammerless, underlever. Whitworth patent.
22093 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (no address mentioned). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel barrels, Underlever. Hammer gun (Buffum).
22210 - E.M. Reilly (address not legible). 12ga? Shotgun SxS. Sidelever, hammergun. No ejector. Bar action locks.

1879: 22400-23060

22423 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford St. London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12ga. Underlever, Hammer gun, Anson release.

1880: 23060-23720 As a point of comparison, Reilly at this time was numbering about 660 guns a year; In 1880 Holland & Holland numbered 200 (89 hammerless, 111 hammer guns) and Purdy 238 (33 hammerless, 203 hammer guns).

23172 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford St., London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever. Hammer gun. Anson 6912 patent. (1st top lever found)
23355 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore. Top lever, pigeon, hammer gun.
23362 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned); 16bore. Shotgun SxS; bar in wood top-lever hammergun. (2nd top lever noted).
23515 - E.M. Reilly & Co, (no address); 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever back action hammer gun.(claims "Edward M" made it but no photos of rib so no confirmation).
23574 - No mention of name. 12bore; Shotgun SxS; Side lever, Pigeon gun, third bite, Hammer gun.

1881: 23720-24380 Late in 1881 Oxford street was re-numbered - 315 becoming 277 and 502 becoming 16. Reilly used both numbers along with Rue Scribe in advertisements in 1882. Theoretically guns after 1881 ought to have 16 Oxford or 277 Oxford along with the Rue Scribe Paris address. However, some guns apparently continued to be labeled with the 502 and 315 Oxford Street numbers.

23746 - E.M. Reilly (no address/photo). 36ga. Rifle SxS. BPE top lever, back action, hammer gun. Gabriel restoration project.
xxxxx - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris. .500BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever, non rebounding hammers.
xxxxx - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London & 2 Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore/.577. Cape gun SxS.
xxxxx - E.M. Reilly & Co. 16 New Oxford Street London & 2 Rue Scribe, Paris. 8bore. Rifle SxS. Hammer gun muzzle loader.
23816 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London. .22LR (relined). Rook rifle ([Buffum).
23843 - E.M. Riley & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammer gun.
24354 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel barrels, hammer gun. (Buffum)

1882: 24380-25040. About this time Reilly advertisements began to carry the following phrase: "By special appointment to HM the King of Spain and HM the King of Portugal; and by special patent to HM the King of Netherlands"

24398 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (no address on rib); .500BPE. Rifle SxS. 28" barrels. Best engraving.
24627 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 500 BPE. Rifle SxS. Top lever hammer gun (Buffum)
24672 - E.M Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 16ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever hammer gun. (Buffum)
24675 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). 12bore. backpack non-ejector. Scott pattern action.
24850 - Rebarrelled. No name. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel Barrels by Norwich. Top lever, side lock. (Buffum)

1883: 25040-25700 Exhibited at Calcutta Exposition - silver medal.

25161 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. .500BPE/12ga. Rifle/Shotgun; side lever, hammer gun. (King of Spain prize - 1880 case; 1883 gun - Strange)
25232 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London. Shotgun SxS. Underlever, back action hammer gun.
25273 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford St., London. .450BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever, hammer gun.
25460 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, New Oxford St., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel barrel. Back action side lock. (Buffum)
25516 - E.M. Reilly & Co (no address). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Box lock, side ejector. .
25572 - E.M. Reilly, 16 New Oxford Street, London and Paris. ,450BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever Hammer gun.

1884: 25700-26360. Exhibited at London 1884, gold and silver medals.

25711 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 New Oxford St. London. 8bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever hammer gun.
26218 - No address mentioned. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. BLNE.

1885: 26360-27020. International Inventions Exhibition, London, 1885 - display lauded.

26517 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (rebarrelled - Chas Smith & Sons) 20bore Shotgun SxS. Under lever Hammer gun. Buffum
26537 - No address mentioned. 20ga. Shotgun SxS. Underlever hammer gun (Buffum)
26584 - E.M. Reilly, New Oxford Street and Rue Scribe Paris. Unknown cal. Case label with SN and 1886 date.
26718 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .380 cal. Rifle Black Powder.
26733 - E.M. Reilly (no full address mentioned). 8 bore. Rifle SxS. Crystal indicator, rifled barrel. hammerless.
26957 - E. M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford St., London. 8 bore. Rifle Single. Underlever, hammer gun.

1886: 26800?-27340? In late 1886 Reilly closed 2 Rue Scribe in Paris.

27340 is the last gun with Rue Scribe on its rib(and I have not seen the photos to verify this). Yet there are “Paris” addresses on a couple of follow-on guns. Reilly may have kept a hotel address in Paris for a year after closing his Rue Scribe store, possibly to handle previous orders. It was allegedly at 29 Rue Fauburg, St. Honore (a hotel). I’m wondering if this is the “Paris” referred to on the ribs of 27570 and 27854 below? (But frankly to be honest the "legend" that he had a shop or an address at 29 rue Fauburg, St. Honore has been repeated ad nauseam on the internet; no where can I verify this - this was a hotel at the time - there are no ads with this address that I can find and no Fauburg address on any gun).

The next “marker” is 34723 the last gun with 16 New Oxford Street on its rib when the store closed in 1898. 7383 guns were numbered after Rue Scribe closed, 12 years, 144 months. The below estimates were as if production proceeded at a steady rate of about 600 numbered guns a year, 50 a month. (and Sales obviously were declining as the 1890’s advanced and after EM’s death in 1890). We’ve noted that Reilly was putting barrels on his guns during this time which had been proofed up to 8 years before the gun was serial numbered, and that there seemed to be a large number of “pairs."

1886: 27020-27680 (Assuming he would have closed the shop near the end of the hunting season, Fall 1996.)

27340? - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Hammer gun. Last SN w/rue Scribe
27377 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 277 Oxford Street, London. 12ga, Shotgun SxS. 3 barrel set, one steel. Crystal indicator (Buffum).
27515 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). Rook Rifle converted to .410.
27570 - E.M. Reilly, Oxford Street, London & Paris. 16ga. Shotgun SxS. BLNE (Buffum).

1887: 27680-28300. There is one gun 27954 which appears to have an unclear Paris address. It may be St. Honore or just plain Paris…like 27570 above.

27687 - E.M. Reilly & Co.(address not mentioned). 20bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever hammergun. (rifle conversion).
27750 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London. Xxxx. SxS. Whitworth steel barrels.
27847 - Name Not mentioned. .450BPE. Rifle SxS. Under lever, ejectors, rebounding hammer gun.
27854 - E.M. Reilly & Co+ (London address and a Paris address)(unclear). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Side lever, hammer gun.(Buffum)
2804x? - Name Not mentioned. .410. Rifle/shotgun single. Converted from rifle. Steel barrel. Top lever hammer gun.

1888: 28300-28900

285xx - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London. 12ga, Shotgun SxS. Top lever ejector. Anson & Deeley patent 6265 (1887?)
286xx - E.M. Reilly & Co., address not posted. 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. top lever, steel 29" barrels. Dutch site.
28861 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London; 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever rebounding hammer gun.

1889: 28900-29500
1890: 29500-30100. EM Reilly dies. His sons were 19 and 16.

29527 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 10bore. Shotgun SxS. Black Powder, underlever, hammer gun.

1891: 30100-30700

30166 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever..
30207 - E.M. Reilly & Co. 277 Oxford Street, London. 10ga. Shotgun SxS.
30245 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London. 8boreBPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever hammergun.
30247 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street., London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. Buffum.
30257 - E.M. Reilly & Co., no address. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
30260 - E.M. Reilly & Co. 16 New Oxford Street, London. 12bore. Steel barrels boxlock.
303xx - E.M. Reilly, 277 Oxford St., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel barrels. Sidelever, hammergun. Not for Ball. (Lubzinski).
30342 - No address. 12ba. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock hammerless live pigeon gun. (Buffum).
30363 - E.M. Reilly, London. 12 ga. shotgun SxS. top lever, Anson Deely patent. #1 of a pair.
30436 - name/addressNot mentioned. .380. Rifle single barrel. Hammergun Park rifle. Box lock ejector.
30456 - Address/name no mentioned. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever Box lock. (Terry Weiland)
30680 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore Shotgun SxS. top lever hammer gun.

1892: 30700-31300

30782 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford St, London. Shotgun. double rifled barrels, under-lever, hammer gun
30791 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford St, London. .380BPE. Rifle SxS. Box lock.
30846 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned. 450BPE. Rifle SxS. Steel barrels. (Buffum).

1893: 31300-31900
1894: 31900-32500

32247 - E.M Reilly & CO., 16 New Oxford St., London; 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. (Buffum)

1895: 32500-33100

32530 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .500 BLE Rifle SxS.
32665 - E.M. Reilly (full address not mentioned in either ad). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Box lock.
32667 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. (Buffum).
32971 - E.M. Reilly & Co,, 16 New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
32974 - E.M. Reilly & Co. 16 New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock. Ball and Shot. (Buffum)

1896: 33100-33700

33269 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford St., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
33286 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. 1 of pair
33287 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. 2of pair
33619 - (no name on rib - rebarreled). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel barrel Sidelock, sleeved by Westley Richards 1960.
33623 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS.
33673 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 bore (original Rifle). SxS. top lever hammer gun. steel barrels.

1897: 33700-34300

33858 - E.M. Reilly (full address not mentioned). 12ga. Shotgun SS. Top lever, Side lock Steel Barrels.
33922 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 12ga. Shotgun SxS.
33950 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16, New Oxford St., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock ejector. (Obendorf’s gun0
34164 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Rd., London, 12 ga, SxS shotgun.
34221 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London. 16 bore-.450. Cape gun SxS. (pair) Buffum
34222 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London. 16 bore-.450. Cape gun SxS. (pair) Buffum
34247 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. (Buffum)

1898: 34300-34900. Reilly closed 16 Oxford Street, in 1898 exact month not known but presumably late in the year. 277 Oxford Street remained open.

34330 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .410. Sidelever, hammergun.
34424 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London (address not mentioned); 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. NE
34442 - E. M. Reilly & Co., (Steel re-barrel - no address). 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. restocked. SLE.
34478 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (full address not mentioned). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
34523 - E.M. Reilly (full address not mentioned). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Box lock.
34572 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (full address not mentioned)/ 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock.
34582 - E.M. Reilly (no address mentioned). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel Barrel, Hammer gun.
34723 - E.M Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Hammer gun. Last SN with 16 Oxford St.

1898-1903: 34800? - 35423. 1903 Reilly was located only at 277 New Oxford Street. It appears only maybe some 600 guns were numbered by Reilly over this 5 year period - 120/year - 10 a month.

Internet has him using some gimmicks at this time, such as labeling one gun "Holborn Bars" - the original Reilly shop. Not to denigrate this "legend," but before accepting it, I'd like to see photos of the gun rib.


34865 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 New Oxford St. London. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. BLE.
35079 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. SLE. Toby Barclay -(barrels proofed pre-1896)
35251 - E.M Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. (frame/barrels)
35367 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. Steel Barrels.

1903 - 1911. 35438 - 35650? Reilly closed 277 Oxford street in 1903 (month not known) and moved to 295 Oxford Street where he remained for 8 years.

35423 - E.M. Reilly & Co" , 295 Oxford Street in London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. (Buffum) (1904?) First SN with 295 Oxford.
35458 - E.M. Reilly & Co (address not mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
35472 - E.M. Reilly & Co (sleeved, no address). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
35493 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (rebarreled). 16ga. Shotgun SxS. Barrels by Elderkin & Son. (Buffum)
35551 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 295 Oxford Street, London. .300. Rifle Single barrel. Rook rifle. Sidelever.

1912-1917? 35600 - 35700. E.M Reilly located at 13 High Street, Marylebone. No guns with this address on them have been found.

35678 - E.M. Reilly (no address mentioned). 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.

Post 1917 130000? - 150000+ (1 added to front of SN's) - Reilly name bought by Charles Riggs who continued to make “E.M. Reilly" guns. It looks like he added a "1" in front of the Reilly series when he took it over, - perhaps starting about (1)37,000? indicating he may have sold up to 15,000 numbered guns. Only a few can be found so far..
..81584 ?? - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 8bore. SxS rifle. 7 groove rifling. non rebound hammer gun, under lever (No photos of SN; odd number)
134183 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16ga. SxS shotgun. BLNE
136535 - E.M. Reilly..not mentioned. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE.
138279 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 20bore Shotgun SxS. BLE
140415 - E.M. Reilly of London. 16bore shotgun SxS. 30" steel barrels
140451 - E.M. Reilly, London. 16bore Shotgun SxS. (Charles Riggs, post 1917)
150570 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock non-ejector.
34221 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London. 16 bore. Shotgun SxS. (pair) Buffum
34222 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 16 New Oxford Street, London. .450. Rifle SxS. (pair) Buffum

My notes were not clear on this pair of guns: they are "cape guns", 16 x .450 #2
Thanks Terry - fixed.
--If you have any info on 1860, it would be appreciated.
-- Also, 27854 which seemed to have a Paris address. Any clue on that address? Just the name or did it have a street as well? Any hint.

And if you find more Reilly's just sort of lying around....would much appreciate something on them...plus your perhaps posting them here for sale. Thanks.

Edit: He looked and found..at least one..17591.
==================================================================================================
18860



In case anyone is interested, here is only the 2nd Reilly 4bore on the list (George's gun being the only one up to now auctioned last year (added to the list above). Might have been proofed as a 6 bore? 18 lbs? I think George's weighs about 29 lbs? 42" barrels - Stan - why go for one pigeon when you can take the whole flock?

Please Note: Upon closer examination, the hammers are both very slightly out of time, and stalking safety will not engage.

MASSIVE FOUR BORE E. M. REILLY HAMMER WATERFOWLING SHOTGUN IN HIGH ORIGINAL CONDITION.
SN 18860. Cal. 4 bore. 4″ Chambers. 42″ Dovetailed stub Damascus bbls are engraved “E. M. Reilly & Co Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe. Paris.” on relatively narrow concave top rib. Bottoms of bbls are stamped with London black powder proofs for 6 bore and with SNs. Large nickel-plated Jones underlever action with non-rebounding peninsula back locks have round bodied serpentine hammers and back sliding safeties. Locks have four positions; fired, 8th cock, half cock, and full cock. Safeties engage at 8th cock. Action and locks are completely unadorned except for makers name on the tail of each lock. SN is on trigger guard tang. Lightly streaked and figured European walnut straight grip buttstock measures 14-3/8″ over nickel-plated buttplate, and has classic point pattern checkering with mullered borders at grip, and a vacant silver oval on toe line. Matching splinter forend has shaped steel tip, and attaches to bbls with sliding side bolt through oval escutcheons. It appears this gun was made before chokes were invented. Diameter at muzzles is .952. Drop at heel: 2″, drop at comb: 1-13/16″. Weight: 18 lbs. 12 oz. LOP: 14-3/8″. CONDITION: Excellent, very close to new. Bbls retain nearly all of their Damascus brown with only slight silvering at muzzles, and some overall flecking. All other major metal parts retain nearly all of their orig heavy nickel plating, with only a few scattered knocks and a small bit of peeling at toe of buttplate. Action and trigger guard screws retain most of their orig case hardening color. Minor pins and safeties retain most of their orig fire blue. Stocks have nearly all of their orig hand rubbed oil finish with scattered marks and scratches, checkering very lightly worn and dark. Mechanically excellent, but triggers and locks are somewhat sluggish due to congealed oil. Bores are excellent, with some light scratches. Action is tight. Waterfowlers such as this are seldom found in this condition, because they are usually heavily used in salty environments. A superb condition example like this is a great rarity. 51401-5 MGM170 (20,000-40,000) –
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/1363-396/






And a third Reilly 4 bore - can't see the SN.

http://www.dogsanddoubles.com/2009/12/good-gun-alert-reilly-4-bore-sxs/reilly_2/



==================================================================================================
20827 (1877)



And a 10 bore hammer gun: SN 20827. (address on rib other than name not mentioned in ad or shown in photos).
http://www.gunseekers.co.uk/South-East-Kent-SIDE-BY-SIDE-SHOTGUNS-E-M-REILLY-10-BORE--4303.htm



==================================================================================================
3514 - JC Reilly, but with New Oxford St. + post 1856 label



And I finally found the pictures of Reilly SN 3514 which I speculate may be part of a set of SN's reserved exclusively for JC after their move to Oxford st. muzzle loader mentioned above with the 502 New Oxford Street address - discussed in the post on page 9. (edit: Error. This is an English site gun. Terry Buffum's gun is 3402 but with 316 High Holborn...would love to see the rib on 3402).

Stock does look a little "plainer" than EM stocks.
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns-black-powder/reilly/percussion/12-gauge/170610144659005







Label has the 1851 Crystal Palace and 1855 Paris Universelle medals dating it between 1855-59.

Originally Posted By: Argo44


This is the one that I bought & still have......Best Regards, George
Oh gosh, I kind of suspected so....but the site looked totally different and I was on yahoo.fr (France) instead of our google. George, that is a beautiful gun!!
==================================================================================================
1857 - JC Reilly and the "7000" series: "Veni Vidi Vici"


I just noticed an unusual coincidence. Terry has a JC Reilly SN 8025, 13 bore, single barreled, two groove rifle with an engraved "Veni, Vidi, Vici" on it. Internet has a 20 bore, single barrel, two grover with the same inscription. I wonder if they were made for the same owner or was this something JC adopted in his later age (mid 1850's?).

Here is the internet gun 8052 sold Sep 2017 in England - be interesting to post photos of Terry's gun next to it - would like to see the VVV engraving too:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/r...29-c-e6e45b9a5b

Description: REILLY, LONDON
A 20-BORE PERCUSSION SPORTING-RIFLE, serial no. 8052,
circa 1855, with browned twist iron octagonal 30in. two-groove rifled barrel, dove-tailed blade fore-sight, standing notch rear-sight with two additional folding leaves, the top-flat at breech signed 'REILLY NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON' followed by an engraved tri-fold banner marked 'VENI, VIDI, VICI', squared and engraved breech-block and fully engraved top-tang, fenced nipple, platinum plug, border, scroll and game-scene engraved bar action lock, chequered walnut pistol-grip half-stock with iron furniture including a game-scene engraved patch-box and fitted with a set-trigger, eyelets for sling and mushroom headed mahogany ramrod.




==================================================================================================
1872 - Reilly and Emperor Napoleon II - Empress Eugenie


Dr. Drew, ran across this 2008 line on DGS on who made the guns for early Brit manufacturers and your comments.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...amp;type=thread
The photos have been deleted. By any chance do you retain the photos and information on both the 12 and 20 bore used by Princes Eugenie and imported into the US by Sturteant?

"Thanks to Dr Drew, Once again for posting the 20bore E M Reilly, I have the 12b also Cased with allLoading Goodies. The letter along with the 2 Guns is, European Royalty and the Reilly Invoice shows just how Mr Sturtevant of Newport R.I.U.S.A. brought the Guns to America.I am not the owner, just the Researcher/Cleaner/Photo'Snapper".The Empress Euginie, Mother of Napoleon lll. Used the 20b Quite Often' I hope to get the story into "ONE of the Glossie's...Some Grand Photos. The Guns are the Quality expected from London Best Makers of the period. The stripped-down photos will show this...DirtyDave /cc

"cc/dt is digging deep beneath the bench for his Reilly stash, so I went ahead and made a PictureTrail album
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=19914837
Here's the Pouiatowski Monogram"

"SxS40" picked up the bar-in-wood at the Vegas show and asked me to let him know if I found others. I did, while moving cased guns to put some guns from the show back into the two big safes.

Jones action, 8 bore, #17591, rib marked E. M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. Locks marked in ribbon E. M. Reilly & CO.

Fore end is keyed type. A horn tip on the fore end aids in lifting it as it is removed. No engraving other than name on locks, a bit of scroll on top rib at breech and all the screws. Looks like a market hunter's gun, not a gentleman's toy.

Unmarked drawer type case (tray with gun pulls out the end) has been in-expertly rebuilt, gun is untouched, but little finish on metal, numerous dings on wood. Presentable as is, but certainly not a high condition survivor.
==================================================================================================
16139 (early 1870)



Terry, I added it to the list above. You ought to post that gun in the "for sale" section. And I for one would very much like to see photos for history. Thanks. Oh, if any other Reilly's you've sort of forgotten about turn up, please let us know. Amazing..simply amazing.

16139
By the way I was contacted by Douglas Tate, who reminded that he wrote an article for DGJ in 1994 about a gold washed Reilly underlever hammer gun BPE rifle. He sent me the original 1992 ad and commented that the article was before the internet and thus research options were limited. Can someone please tell me which issue of DGJ this appeared in (Spring, Summer, etc?). There are 1994 issues for sale on the internet. Thanks. It has both Oxford St and Rue Scribe addresses, should be early 1870 and may now be the earliest Reilly in my records with rebounding hammers. I've added this gun to the above list as well.

Lot 580

E. M. REILLY & CO. A FINE AND RARE GOLD-
WASHED 12-BORE HAMMER PRESENTATION
RIFLE NO. 16139; 26-inch barrels, engraved and
etched with foliate scrolls, leaf sights to 200, frame,
rebounding barlocks, noseless hammers and rotary
under-lever engraved with lions in landscape and
scrolls 14 1/2-inch figured stock with pistol grip and
engraved heel plate, 10lb. 8oz., black powder proof,
stock cracked and repaired, horn fore-end tip missing.

Ł2,000-3,000

edit: Cancel appeal on the magazine issue above since Doug had sent me the data...and I'd just plain overlooked the information. I need lots of pictures these days.

These spectacular photos are from the Douglas Tate's DGJ article. If there are copyright issues...and it's now been 23 years since they were published...I'll delete them. Label is the generic 1860-1898 label. It does not have the 1867 Paris medals (1868-71 but occasional afterwards as well), nor does it have the rue Scribe branch address. It is 502 New Oxford St. so 1871-1882 time Frame. No scolloped corners; likely a reproduction label.

The article on the gold washed E M Reilly is in DGJ Vol 5, Issue 1, Spring 1994, pages 120-24.

Page 9 shows a different E M Reiily gun, and an ad for another rifle is on page 158.
==================================================================================================
Reilly Bibliography


Thanks Terry...Doug also contacted me and I've ordered that issue. Which brings up the question of compiling a Bibliography on Reilly for future historians.

Can you by chance tell me off hand every DGJ that's had an article about Reilly? I know the following:
-- DGJ Summer 2015 - "EM Reilly; Purdey's Pretentious Rival" - John Campbell; describes Reilly as a Purdey wannabe.
-- DGJ Summer 2005 - "The Reilly Factor" - John Campbell
-- DGJ Autumn 2005 - “Bore Rifles Part II” - Sherman Bell; describes this rifle and his load development to get it shooting 3-3/4″ groups at 50 yards.
-- DGJ Spring 1994 (ordered).

Also Terry Weiland wrote a well received articles
-- "Shotgun Life" "Sipping the Grand Cru"(read it); also widely published in "Daily Caller" Sep 2016 and other on-line publications.
-- "Guns and Ammo" - Terry Weiland
-- "Gray's Sporting Journal" - April, 2007; "Jupiter's Nuts" Terry Weiland
-- "Gray's Sporting Journal" - April, 2009; "Catbird" - Terry Weiland
-- "Gray's Sporting Journal" - December, 2016; "Artistry, Emotion, and Things That Go Bang" - Terry Weiland
-- "Rifle Magazine" - Apr 2012; "Reilly 20 bore Hammer Gun - Terry Weiland

Other magazines:
— “Sporting Classics Daily” - Nov 23, 215; The Virtuous 12 Bore -
-- "Classic Arms Journal " - "The King of the Rifles" - Ross Seyfried (.577 Martini-Henry's)
-- Double Gun Classic" - Jul-Aug 2005. "The Reilly Factor" - John Campbell:

Books:
-- Vintage British Shotguns - Terry Weiland
-- Dangerous Game Rifles - Terry Weiland
— Gun Digest 2009
— Gun Digest 2014

-- "Wyman's Commercial Encyclopedia of Leading Manufacturers of Great Britain" P. 295-6.
-- "Our Gunmakers - E M Reilly & Co" - 2.5 page article from a rare Victorian periodical  
-- British Gunmakers Their Trade Cards, Cases and Equipment 1760-1860 - Neal Back
-- GUNMAKERS OF LONDON 1350-1850, by Howard L. Blackmore - 1986 Includes supplement
-- British Gunmakers: v. 1: London by Nigel Brown (Hardback, 2004)


I'll add to this list as I compile literature on Reilly. Certainly need to add "Wyman". In the meantime if anyone knows of other articles/books with info on Reilly, would much appreciate your sending it to me...I'll compile the Bibliography.
I mentioned this gun in the unknown SN XXXX post on Page 4. It's a Single barrel, 4 bore, percussion rifle so I think I'lll do it again. No Serial Number but as a muzzle loader with two groove rifling and with E.M Reilly, London in the rib - it has to be post 1858 and probably pre 1862.
-- First it has two groove rifling, something Terry Buffum raised earlier and we looked into a bit on his 8025 JC Reilly (page 8). Two groove rifling seems to have originated experimentally around 1845 and may have been popularized by Purdy in the early 1850 (need more research).
-- Second there may be an Indian connection to the Nizam of Hyderabad which is always of interest to me. - I've posted the story below (unclear whether the Nizam owned the Reilly).
-- and third - it's a 4 bore.
-- What's interesting is the barrels have a Birmingham Black Powder proof mark. That in itself is unusual and it doesn't have a SN..that's odd...so did he market the gun rather than make it? - if so he wouldn't have put a number on it.

E. M. REILLY FOUR BORE BELTED BALL PERCUSSION RIFLE.
SN NSN. Cal. 4 bore. (1.015 bore diameter, 1.120 groove diameter. Two groove). 26″ Tapered octagon twist bbl is mounted with one standing leaf rear, and “certifiable antique elephant ivory” blade front sight. Top flat is engraved “E. M. Reilly & Co. London”. Bottom flat is stamped with Birmingham black powder proof. Case hardened patent breech is engraved with large open scroll. Case hardened breech iron with integral fence is engraved with large shaded scroll. Large bar action lockplate is mounted with tall, round bodied, slightly serpentine hammer. Hammer and lockplate are engraved with more large open scroll. “E. M. Reilly & Co” is on front portion of plate. Trigger plate is mounted with germanic type double set triggers, and trigger must be set before lock can be cocked. Trigger guard with squared bow has shell finial, and is also scroll engraved. Full length stock with swan-necked butt, is of indeterminate tropical wood, and measures 14-7/8″ over blued steel buttplate. Stock features large germanic style swept shadow line left hand cheekpiece. A hand forged ramrod is held by single plain pipe. Drop at heel: approx 3″, drop at comb: approx 2-1/8″. Weight: 16 lbs. 6 oz. LOP: 14-7/8″. PROVENANCE: Invoice and correspondence regarding purchase and import of this rifle. Special Note: This item contains or is made of ivory. Do not bid on this lot unless you have read and agreed to our "Ivory Position Statement" and the "Waiver of Legal and Financial Risk to James D. Julia in regards to your Purchase of an Ivory Object." This information is located in the front section of our catalog. CONDITION: Fine, as rebuilt and refinished. Metal parts retain nearly all of sympathetic refinish. What appears to be old restock is completely refinished, with large repair pegged onto toe and 1-1/2″ crack at left rear of breech iron. Bore is good, shootable, with considerable pitting. Lock is crisp. Set trigger works. An interesting big bore rifle showing what is most probably South African restocking. 49958-37 MGM62 IVORY (4,000-7,000)





Here is the story:

http://revivaler.com/four-bore-rifle-two/
Hi,new here. I have E.M. Reilly hammer gun 17495. 12b sleeved under push lever w/horn knob. #1 on rib,Tang & forearm. J. Purdy patent 1182 on water table. Tight gun shoots well. (11th place in last year's southern sxs) Will post pics if interested.
Stake...that's what the line's for and the Reilly owners would value a view of your gun. I'll add the SN to the list above. 17495 should be 1871. Would much appreciate your letting us know the address on the rib. It should have the Rue Scribe, Paris address (but this was sometime omitted). And nice shooting.
I haven't looked at all the issues, but the DGJ index 1 (1990-1996) gives the following EM Reilly references:

-Vol 4, Issue 1 (pg 115)
-Vol 4, Issue 2 (pg 45)
-There are quite a few Reilly references in the 1990-1996 index.

DGJ index 2 (1997-2005)
-Vol 9, Issue 1 (pg 116)
-Vol 10, Issue 1 (pg 68)
-Vol 13, Issue 1 (pg 133)
-Vol 15, Issue 2 (pg 143)
-Vol 15 Issue 3 (pg 9)

I don't think DGJ has issued an index 3 yet.

Ken
Many thanks Ken....
Yes Oxford st and Rue Scribe on rib. Will work on pics when gun comes back from Smith for post season ck up. Also correction on southern 14th place hammer division. (I always shoot better in my memory than real life!)
Reilly Military Rifle clones: In case I get hit by a bus or something, I’d like to pass along to the Reilly community my observations on Reilly and “Military Guns.”

Reilly's business model from the beginning was to produce a quality product, cheaply and deliver it rapidly. He sold used guns, and put his name on guns he was an agent for (Trantor revolvers, Henry rifles, etc.). And, unlike Purdey, Holland & Holland, etc., Reilly made hundreds of military rifle clones over the life of the firm. There was a very good business reason for doing this. Britain at the time was a nation of hunters - if you were to aspire to a certain class, you had to hunt just like you had to gamble; It was the heyday of the British Empire and British colonial officials and officers going abroad wanted their own guns; they took military clones because it enabled them to use military issue ammunition.

In addition from at least 1840, when J.C. Reilly first displayed a mortar bomb he designed, the Reilly’s did go after one big prize: a British Army military contract for small arms. He did this with the Prince patent breech loader (1855), The Greener breech loader (1862), and the Reilly Comblain breech loader (1868).

This led Reilly to produce copies of prominent breech loaders on the market at the time. He rarely numbered these rifles (though sometimes he did) for reasons to be explained. These guns are not the lovely, engraved, graceful Damascus barreled side by sides associated with Reilly; but this post is necessary to understand the company’s business philosophy and its ambitions - he did not want to compete with Purdey - he wanted business..he wanted to undercut Purdey selling quality wares at half the price - and EM’s business model was successful - for instance in 1880 he sold 660+ numbered guns (in addition to used guns and guns made under license); Purdey sold 238; Holland & Holland 200.

Following are examples of Reilly military rifle clone’s produced on the following military designs:
— 1853 .577 Enfield muzzle loader, percussion rifle.
— 1855 Prince patent breech loading rifle
— 1862 Green Brothers patent breech loader rifle
— 1866 Snider Enfield rifle
-- 1868 Reilly Comblain breech loader
— 1871 Martini Henry rifle
— 1902 Enfield SMLE .303 bolt action mag-fed rifle. (yes Reilly fans…read on)

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1853 Enfield:




.577 Enfield officially designated the P-1853 Enfield Rifle Musket: In October 1853 the British Army, after extensive trials adopted the .577 muzzle-loading percussion hammer gun as the official rifle of the Army. It was widely regarded as the finest military muzzle loader in the world from 1853 until it was supplanted in the 1860’s by breech loaders. This was the gun that armed the British Army during the latter stages of the Crimean War, the Mutiny in India and much of the Confederate army and the Union Army during the War Between the States aka the War of Northern Aggression.



It had 3 groove rifling, fired a .577 minie ball, and had a revolutionary adjustable backsight. Reilly made Enfields and usually put his Serial Number on them. He may have made these from scratch - he did not order Enfield parts from the armory and assemble them. (In later Enfields - Sniders and Martini's the Enfield factory would ship parts to the firm wanting to sell a replica or clone). Here are a few examples of Serial Numbered Reilly 1853 Enfields:

11227 - A numbered Enfield, which the seller claims was made in standard military configuration and engraved and assembled by Reilly. It has E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford St., London on the rib. The SN is where is should be, on the tang behind the trigger guard. The seller claimed it should be 1861. The SN indicates it was indeed numbered circa 1860.



Xxxx - An unidentified sporterized Enfield made by Reilly from a Polish site. Note the sight which identifies it as an Enfield clone; Note the engraving.



xxxxx - 2 band 1858 .577 short Enfield with no SN labeled on the receiver Reilly, New Oxford St., London.



12079 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 & 502 Oxford Street, London; .451 cal. Rifle; Percussion, muzzle loader. (1st “315 Oxford St.” address identified on a surviving Reilly gun rib). 12079 should have been numbered circa 1861.



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1855 Prince Patent


In 1855 London gunmaker Frederick Prince patented a breech loader. It was tested by British Ordinance and outshot the just adopted .577 Enfield muzzle loader in rapidity of fire and accuracy at 300 yards. It was called “beyond comparison the best breech loader” in a testimonial signed by twelve of the best known London gunsmiths (Reilly included?). Ordinance refused to adopt it regarding it as too complicated (and face it - they didn't like new-fangled stuff). In 1859 a group of London gun makers including Manton, Wilkinson, Samuel Nock, Parker Field and Tatham (and Reilly?) petitioned Ordinance to reconsider the decision. It was turned down.

Reilly had some sort of undefined relationship with Prince...the same crowd of gun makers were with Prince and with the Green Bros later. Green Bros an Prince had a partnership for awhile that dissolved in 1959; Reilly got manufacturing rights for Green Bros breech loader in 1862. Again, when you look at who was friends with whom, the same suspects show up so Reilly had to be part of the group advocating for Prince.

Prince’s Patent rifles were produced by a several different British gunmakers including Prince’s own company Prince & Green, Wilkinson’s, E.M. Reilly and Isaac Hollis & Sons. The rifles were made in various calibres from the British army’s standard issue .577 to much smaller rook and rabbit hunting guns .24 and .37 calibre.

http://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/130088370814/frederick-princes-breech-loading-rifle-in/embed

In view of the fact that Reilly built Prince breech loaders, one must assume EM Reilly was one of the 12 prominent gun makers who testified about the Prince in 1855 and was part of the 1859 petition, possibly with the hope of participating in a lucrative Ordinance contract.

Here are two surviving Reilly Prince Patent guns which he has serial numbered - usually meaning he produced and made the parts for the gun himself:

10782 - Reilly, New Oxford St. London. .577 cal; Rifle; single barrel breech loader, Frederic Prince patent (circa1858)



11645 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 100 bore; Rifle. Prince patent, single barrel, breech loader, (circa 1860)

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1862 Green Brothers Patent Breech Loader


In 1860 Green Brother, C.E. AND J., took out a provisional patent on a breech loader and in 1862 received the full patent. Reilly produced one (surviving) gun on the Green brothers patent which he serial numbered. In 1865 the Green brothers (possibly with Reilly as a silent partner?) submitted the gun for testing when British Ordinance, panicked by the 1864 Prussian victory over the Danes using breech-loading needle fire guns, decided Britain needed a breech loader. The Green Bros gun did very well but ultimately lost out to the Snider Enfield.

13333. .577 percussion cap breech loader on the Green Brothers Patent marked E.M Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford St., London on the rib behind the ladder sight and on the bolt. On the bolt also is Reilly's name and address along with Green Bros' with license #23 - one of the first produced. This is an 1862 Green Brothers Patent gun one of the first - serial numbered by Reilly and appropriately engraved. As such it is a definitive date "marker" for serial numbers. Edit: Per subsequent post, Reilly did not start manufacturing this gun until April 1864...it was trialed in June. Thus 13333 should have been made about May 1864.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

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1866 Snider Enfield


In early 1864 the armies of Europe were shocked by the decisive victory the Prussian Dreyse Needle Guns brought during the Danish-Prussian War. In 1865 the British began to seriously look for a breech-loading replacement of their Enfield 1853 Pattern rifle muskets. Following trials of various submitted designs Jacob Snider's cartridge conversion was selected and in September 1866 the .577 Snider rifle was introduced becoming Britain's first breech-loading military rifle.

Snider was an American inventor who from 1864 to 66 submitted three versions of his snider breech. He never received a penny and died in poverty in 1866 in London before his invention was adopted. It was ingenious. All it required was to saw off the back of the 1853 barrel and screw on the Snider breech. Ammunition gave some initial problems but was rapidly overcome.

Snider's continued in use for 60 years, and were entered in marksmanship contests up to 1920 in Canada and pre-war in Britain. They were issued to the Indian Army in 1875 after the British adopted the Martini-Henry; (Britian after the Mutiny always made sure Indian troops were one generation behind in rifles). They were instrumental in the Indian Army Abyssinian campaign.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Because of the ease of conversion, a lot of Reilly 1853 Enfields were converted to Sniders in the 1860's. Here are some Reilly Sniders which he numbered; he did not number guns unless he built them.

11651 - E.M. Reilly, Oxford St., London. .577 cal; Enfield type, percussion muzzle loader converted to Snider breech loader.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

15239 - E.M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford St., London. .577. single barrel Snider Enfield.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

16607 - E.M. Reilly (no address). .577. Rifle; Single barrel. Snider Enfleld.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

XXXXX - .577 caliber Snider, Canadian gun. No Sn mentioned. Snider sporting rifle by Reilly of London (no full name/addreess mentioned).

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Xxxxx - No SN mentioned. .750 caliber. African game gun labeled E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
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1868 Reilly Comblain


The 1866 Snider Enfield was regarded by the British Army only as a stop-gap breech loader until a fully dedicated breech loader could be developed and adopted. Also I believe Ordinance noted that the .577 bullet went sub-sonic after about 400 yards and this effected its accuracy at longer distances; they were interested in a smaller caliber, higher velocity cartridge (I'll let the Snider guys discuss this further). In 1867 Ordinance put out the call for a breech loader design - to be covered further in the Martini Henry section below:

In 1867 the Belgian firm Comblain took out a patent on a breech loader. The patent was described in “The Engineer” of May 15, 1868 on page 347. See this site: http://www.militaryrifles.com/Comblains/ComblainCart.htm; Patent No. 5480.

Reilly went into partnership with Comblain to try to market it to the Ordinance. The bid didn’t progress very far. Apparently the Army felt it was too similar to the Snider. The Comblain breech loader was adopted by Belgium and for 30 years by the Brazilian army. However, Reilly became the “sole manufacturers” of Comblain’s in Britain and his name is on at least seven of them that are extant. Most Reilly-Comblain have only the London address-it was a British army trials after all and having a Frenchy address would not have been a pluse; however one trial's gun has “Paris” stamped on the butt plate. Most of the early guns were proofed in Belgium - some have Birmingham proofs - and none of them have a Reilly Serial Number on them. One, however has “E.M.Reilly & Co., Sole Manufacturers, New Oxford St London just ahead of the breech:

Xxxxx. .577 Reilly-Comblain rifle, serial no. 32. Blued 30in barrel, block and blade fore-sight, ladder rear-sight, the nocksform signed 'E.M. REILLY & Co. RIFLE MANUFACTURERS, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON', lift up lever with horizontal bolt handle mounted to the right hand side lifting and drawing out the breech-block, the block signed 'REILLY-COMBLAIN PATENT No. 32', plain colour-hardened lock signed 'E.M. REILLY & Co. LONDON’.



Xxxxx. This rifle is stamped on the barrel ahead of the breach E.M.Reilley& Co Sole Manufacturers New Oxford st London on the lock plate E.M.Reilly & Co. London. Caliber is .577.



Xxxxx. Reilly Comblain rifle; 30”, barrel with Birmingham proofs "25", sabre bayonet lug and typical period Enfield sights; 5-groove rifling like the 1860 or '61 Short Rifles. Chambered for the .577 Snider round. Receiver ring stamped "E.M.REILLY & Co / SOLE MANUFACTURERS / NEW OXFORD STREET / LONDON" . Breechblock stamped "REILLY-COMBLAIN / PATENT No 5048". Butt is marked with a large 3" ink stamp "PATENTED BY E.M. REILLY & Co LONDON & PARIS".



Xxxxx. Fusil d'infanterie ŕ percussion centrale, modčle E. M. Reilly ; calibre 14,8 mm ; canon poli blanc, poinçonné et signé : "E. M. Reilly & C° Sole Manufacturers new Oxford Street London" ; culasse marquée : "Reilly Comblain patent n° 5298" ; platine avant polie blanc, marquée : "E M Reilly & C° London"



Xxxxx. .577 Snider, 20 1/2" barrel. The top of the action is engraved "H. HOLLAND / 98 NEW BOND ST. / LONDON", the lockplate is engraved simply "H. HOLLAND" and the breechblock is marked "REILLY-COMBLAIN / PATENT NO. / 125". A brass plaque affixed to the bottom of the stock beneath action is beautifully engraved "Reilly / Comblain / Patent / No. 25”. (Note 98 New Bond St. is the address of Holland & Holland.). (Also, since I can find no record of a Reilly-Comblain Patent 25 - Believe that this is the 25th gun produced on the Reilly Comblain patent? by H&H no less).

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1871 Martini Henry:


This is the gun of the Zulu Wars, Rorke’s Drift, 2nd Campaign in Afghanistan. In Kabul I bought several Pashtun made copies of the 1853 Enfield, 1866 Snider Enfield, and both Mark I and Mark II variants of the Martini-Henry. Whenever anyone sees the guns together, they immediately go to the Martini Henry.



To begin the process on the next generation breech-loader, British War office held a prize competition in 1865 with a prize money of Ł5000 to select from weapon that used a smaller, higher velocity projectile than the .577” snider. The trials were to take place within the next two years, with an ultimate winner to be announced in 1869,

On June 11, 1867, the prize sub-committee of the OSC reported that 104 rifles had been submitted for examination. Of those, 37 were in compliance with the terms of the advertisement, 67 had not complied, and while ineligible for the competition were set aside for consideration on their own merits. Further consideration of the 37 complying rifles, resulted in the rejection of 28. The nine systems to be carried over for trial, and requiring six specimen arms were the Albini & Braendlin, the Burton No.1 and No. 2, the Fosbery, the Henry, the Joslyn, the Martini, the Peabody, and The Remington. (See the Reilly Comblain mentioned in the chronology below)

The Martini action coupled with a Henry barrel won out. (Frederic von Martini of Switzerland basically copied and improved on a design by American Henry Peabody.). On 13th April 1871 the orders were placed at the Royal Small Arms factory at Enfield for full scale production of the Martini Henry Rifle, between then and 1874 The Martini Henry was trialled throughout the Empire by various regiments, and finally on September 28th 1874 it was authorized for full issue to the British Army. (Mark I-IV variants).

Many companies made Martini-Henry clones including Greener.

17314 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577/.450. Rifle single barrel. First Reilly Martini SN (if it is his). You'll note the Martini patent on the left side of the receiver. Supposedly if a company wanted to build a Martini, they had to contact Enfield which would send over the parts. This Reilly if the SN is correct would be 1871 - just after the formal adoption of the Martini and its trial period. Perhaps this explains why it was serial numbered. I'll have to defer to the Martini experts and there are a number of excellent sites and experts out there. Edit: Subsequent post shows the first Reilly advertisement for a Martini-Henry to be December 1871. The Reilly SN Date List on P.17 below dates 17314 to very late 1871.





Xxxxx E.M. Reilly & Co, New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris; 52 on the bore means, that it is a .450 Cal. Bore. This fits with 11.6mm bore dia. Proof marks show Black Powder, possibly 3 1/4” cartridge length. This might be a 450, 3 1/4 BPE or a 500/450 BPE.



Xxxxx. E M Reilly 577/450 Martini. This gun came out of an estate of a gentleman who hunted in South Africa and Rhodesia in the 1960's and 70's. According to the estate manager the gun was purchased while gent was on a hunt to Rhodesia. This is a commercially built 577/450 Martini Henry by E M REILLY & CO, OXFORD ST, LONDON.



Xxxxx. Small framed .380 martini rook-rifle retailed by E.M. Reilly, 315 oxfordstreet , London.

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1903-11 SMLE Enfield. (Lee Speed - sporterized version)


In 1879 the British Army began experimenting with magazine fed bolt-action rifles. This led to the adoption of the Lee-Medford in 1888 chambered for .303. It had problems especially with its single stack magazine. In 1892-5 this was fixed with the adoption of the Lee-Enfield aka “Long Lee”. I have one from Afghanistan. Lee-Medford continued in service for years. In 1907 or thereabouts the famous SMLE Enfield .303 was born, used by the British army and the empire for 50 years in both World Wars and by tribesmen from Yemen to Baluchistan.” (the history of the Lee-Medford/Enfields is so extensive that I'll let the experts talk further about it).

You don’t think of Reilly making a magazine fed high-powered modern rifle, Yet here it is. (The labels after 1898 did advertise "magazine rifles" - see trade label posts below). A sporterized SMLE Enfield - i.e. a Lee Speed... E.M.Reilly & Co., .375 X 2.5" nitro express. Patented tang safety. Full length file cut rib. Express and ladder sights. Scroll engraved on wrist strap action and trigger guard. Scope mounts fixed in past. Barrel address reads E.M. REILLY & CO. 295 OXFORD STREET LONDON. (i.e 1903-1911)

The .375 Nitro Express 2˝ inch Velopex , was a nitrocellulose (smokeless) powder cartridge introduced in 1899. A hunting cartridge produced for single-shot and double rifles, the .375 Flanged NE is a slightly longer version of the .303 British necked out to .375 caliber.



And Lee-Speeds were being sold by Reilly before the Enfield became the SMLE...these had to be Long Lees?

03 June 1893, "Volunteer Services Gazette"


By the way, did other prominent London gun makers maker similar guns?

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1835-1912 Reilly Case-Trade label Analysis


A CASE FOR LABELS

I’ve looked at every Reilly case label I’ve been able to find and there is a case to be made that case labels can help dating a gun or at least understand what was going on in the company at the time. Of course case labels can be easily changed out; cases are relined;, replaced and an awful lot of sellers who have original case labels just don’t photograph the label.

Following are several different labels that look to have been used by Reilly from pre 1847 to 1903 (when they moved from 277 to 295 Oxford Street). I’ve tried to pick examples that were authentically original and not-surprisingly, some of these came out of pistol/revolver or air-cane cases - obviously those cases were left in hall-cupboards of the rich and weren’t being carted off into the woods in the rain. This compilation may not mean much, unless it does. And there are often some pretty neat inscriptions on original labels such as serial numbers, dates, prices, Sanskrit writing. Note: Most of the labels after 1848 which are probably authentic are rectangular with scolloped corners. I'm not ready to call every paper label without scollops "reproductions" but again most (not all) originals have that feature.

If anyone has other labels out there…photographs would be much appreciated, especially for the 1850’s era when those mysterious stamps appeared and now need to be interpreted (edit: Mystery SOLVED) and anything from about 1880-87 - the labels which reference royalty.

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.............Pre-1847 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn
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1). Pre 1847; No gun serial number (Air Cane)
Comment: This label has the 316 High Holborn Address. Note that Reilly identifies himself as “Gun Maker.” The is the only existing 316 High Holborn label I've found.



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.............1847 - Move to 502 New Oxford Street
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May 1847. S/N 8463;
Rib: Reilly, New Oxford Street, London
Label: Joseph C.Reilly,
Gun Maker
502 Oxford Street;
Removed from Holborn



Nov/Dec 1847 S/N: 8578
Rib: J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London
Label: Joseph Charles Reilly,
Gun Maker
502 New Oxford Street London.
Removed from Holborn



1847 S/N: 7201
Rib: Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London
Label: Joseph Charles Reilly,
Gun Maker
502 Oxford Street
Removed from Holborn
Comment: The “J.C. - 7000 series” with “Removed from Holborn.”



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.............1848-C1855? Reilly, Gun Maker, 502 New Oxford Street
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This is the generic Reilly label after their move to 502 New Oxford Street: They were proud of this building and featured it on their labels. These labels were on guns and on air canes. It also probably reflects the business acumen of EM Reilly - his father used plain, almost business-card-like labels; this one is more professional.

Looks like French handwritten numbers on the label. 640 Piece francs or Pierre Freres? G9291210 (no idea what the number means - they look like numerals written in sub-continent style):



Air Cane label from same era.



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.............C1855?-1859? Reilly, Gun Maker, 502 New Oxford Street with “stamps”
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At some point two stamps were added to the above label on either side of “London.” There are four examples of this. They refer to his having exhibited at the 1851 Crystal Palace industrial exposition in London and the 1855 Paris Universalle. If a gun has this label, and it is original...it is 1855-1859.

.............London 1851 Bronze Medal"..................................................Napoleon III prize from the 1855 Paris Universelle:



And there is a French phrase "Fusils a bascule" on the label which means "Center Break (breech loading) long guns" reflecting the impact Casimir Lefaucheux had at the 1851 Crystal Palace Exhibition. Lang put out the first British breech loader in 1853 on Lefracheux's system...upgraded...a pretty shameless invasion of a patent and by 1855, Reilly is advertising the guns (in French) along with "improved breech loaders," which may apply to other patents coming current at the time such as Prince's 1855 patent.

This first label below comes from an amazing four barrel muzzle loader made for the India Market probably in mid-1850's. It has "Exposition Medal London" and "Prize Medal Paris" . Sanscrit writing on the label...



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.............1859 - 1867; E.M Reilly; 502 New Oxford Street; internal border added
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"E.M." appeared on ribs and ads in Fall 1859; The branch at 315 Oxford Street was opened in January 1859. Yet the address on the labels for the most part featured only 502. Labels have corner scollops and an internal border. (see p. 19 for a more complete explanation)

1859? EM Reilly,
........Gun Manufacturers,
........New Oxford Street,
........London (Indian market)



The Sanskrit script reads .. Maharaj Pratap Singh ji Solarkar or Sarkar Palamau. Vaishak..(i.e April/May) Sudi 12 means 12 of April/ May..Sanwat 1937 means Hindu calendar Vikrami Sanwat 1937. that is 137 years old. 200 Silvers rupees paid to the seller along with some presentation. I.e. the gun was resold in India in 1880 for 200 silver rupees to Maharajah Pratap Singh ji, Sarkar (lord) of Palamau.

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.............1859-68 (502 but no 315 Oxford Street)”GUN MANUFACTURERS”; Internal border on paper labels
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And Reilly began identifying himself as a "Gun Manufacturer" possibly as early as summer 1860.

1861 (Based on gun S/N) S/N: 12532
Rib: REILLY 502 NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON
Label: E.M. REILLY
…….…502 NEW OXFORD STREET
……….LONDON
Ornamental gold-wash gun and case made for Indian market



This is the generic label from 1859 to the French exposition in Paris of 1867. There are a dozen examples of this label in exactly the same configuration. There is only 502 Oxford Street on these labels yet S/N’s of the guns show they were numbered long after 315 Oxford Street was opened. "Fusil a Bascule" has become "Improved breech loaders...." - THIS IS THE GENERIC LABLE OF CHOICE FOR REPRODUCTIONS THESE DAYS. And it may have been revived circa 1879-circa 1885. (see below) but with internal borders.

1862 (based on gun S/N) S/N: 13599
Rib: E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London
Label: E.M. Reilly & Co.
Gun Manufacturers
502 New Oxford Street
London
Large Assortment of Double Fowling Pieces, Double Rifles
Approved Breech Loaders on the Latest Approved Systems
No illustration, no medals; Sanskrit writing:



Tipping & Lawden Derringer from early 1860's with Sharp's patent.



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.............1868 (502 and 315 Oxford Street and Medals won in Paris Summer 1867) GUN MANUFACTURERS - Internal border
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This Air-Cane label is after the close of the Paris Exposition in July 1867 (and the awarding of the medals) and before the opening of Rue Scribe in Feb 1868. NOTE: This is in error - there is mention of "establishments" (plural) and a close inspection will show that 2 Rue Scribe on the right side of the label has been rubbed out - someone didn't much like the French.



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.............1868-1872? (502, 315 Oxford Street, 2 Rue Scribe and Medals won in Paris Summer 1867) GUN MANUFACTURERS
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The generic label used by Reilly from 1868 upon the opening of Rue Scribe until he dropped the medals from his labels sometime in the 1870's. This label has the three addresses ("and 2, Rue Scribe...indicating it had just opened?), the medals won in Paris and the types of guns he makes and sells. This label is on at least 15 cases from the era.
-- About 1868 he placed on his newspaper and magazine advertisements "Fournisseurs Brevete de S.M L'Empereur" - i.e. Napoleon III. (There were two Reilly's discussed on this board 10 years ago which had been owned by Princesses Eugenie). Obviously N-III went into the dust-bin of history during the Franco-Prussian war two years later. There is no evidence of this hubris appearing on his labels, however. Of course Napoleon III abdicated after the defeat at Sedan in September 1870. Reilly still had the medals on his magazine and book advertisements in 1871, and mentioned the Emperor in an ad in an 1872 issue of Bradshaw. Nothing afterwards
-- In 1876 he added "King of Portugal" to his advertisements; and in 1881 King of Netherlands and King of Spain. The three "Kings" began to appear on labels about 1882?



Somebody wrote the price in Dollars - $260.00. Branch Establishment (singular); The "and" is dropped in front of Rue Scribe. 315 is missing.



Presentation case from 1871:



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.............Circa 1872? - 1886? (502 and/or 315 Oxford Street with no Paris Medals; GUN MANUFACTURERS
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Sometime in the early-mid-1870's he dropped the Paris medals from his labels. I'm wondering if this actually happened earlier - Napoleon III's face was on those medals and they might not have sat well with the 3rd French Republic when it was constituted in 1875. (per above, on advertisements the medals disappear after 1871 and references to the emperor disappear in 1872 (and that last advertisement in Bradshaw likely had been contracted for months before).

Anyway, there are fIVE examples below from guns numbered 20255 (c1875), 22423 (c1879) 25377 (c1884) and two from cases containing guns whose SN is unknown. It's interesting that some of these had 502 or 315 on them even after the numbering system on Oxford Street changed in December 1881. This label seemed to go on and on: Terry Buffum reported that his guns serial numbers 34221 & 34222 with the 16 New Oxford Street on the ribs has a case with the 315 Oxford Street address (likely relined many years ago). It may be this was the reprinted Reilly label of choice which might call into question its authenticity in some of the below cases... (by 1881 "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" began to appear on his advertisements - not all, but a significant number. and he regularly used 16 and 277 rather than 502 and 315. So I could be persuaded to call the last four of the below labels, the ones without rue Scribe, "reprinted" even if some time ago - although with 5 old labels...that's sort of like trying to put the toothpaste back into the tube.

20255 - E.M, Reilly & Co., (address on rib not mentioned). 12 ga, Shotgun SxS top lever, hammer gun. 315 main address + 502 & Rue Scribe (no "Branch Establishments"). - This label appears authentic. (scollops but no internal border).



22423 (1879) - Oid label...no rue Scribe. This label looks to be from 1859-67. And it appears that Reilly from about 1872-86 used this old label often deleting Rue Scribe and 315?:

Unknown S/N: This has only 502 and no Rue Scribe like the above label. It looks like Reilly went back to the 1859-68 generic label often after 1872. The canvas covered case fits with advertisements from the era late 1870's-early 1880's; and the two below labels, one with a dated gun. (no scollops)



315 Oxford st with both 502 and Rue Scribe: 1872-1881: no scollops.



1884 (per gun Serial Number) S/N: 25711
Rib: E.M. REILLY & CO. NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON. AND 2. RUE SCRIBE. PARIS
Label: E.M. Reilly Co.
Gun Manufacturers
502, New Oxford Street
London
For: H. H. Maharana Shree Warhatsingji Loonawara -- Looks like a one-off special label - usually it would be inset into the velvet without a paper label -- or more likely a replace label and possibly case. - note: No scollops.



And another restored SxS in what the seller claims is an original case. Again E.M Reilly & Co..with only 502 and "Gun Manufacturers"...(this is a side-lever hammer gun; no S/N is given. The case looks a little new; perhaps relined years ago making the label a copy. (scollops)



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1882 - 1886 (In Dec 1881 Oxford St. was renumbered. 502 became 277; 315 became 16. Labels still had “GUN MANUFACTURERS”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


His gun trade labels for the most part continued to use 502 or 315 though advertisements used both numbering systems and 277 and 16 became normal on gun ribs.

Label for a Tower Bulldog revolver made by Bentley before Webley took over the Tower trademark about 1882. Interesting - 16 Oxford street, 277 Oxford (post 1881) and rue Scribe (pre-1886). And it paradoxically has the medals from 1867 Universalle...this label can't logically exist in a normal world. (scollops) (except per follow-on post below, Reilly did occasionally use the Paris medals in both ads and trade labels up to 1886).



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1880?? (502, 315 Oxford Street, Rue Scribe) “GUN AND RIFLE MANUFACTURERS”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sometime in the early 1880’s Reilly changed from “Gun manufacturers” to “Gun and Rifle Manufacturers.” In addition in late 1881, 502 was renumbered 277, 315 was renumbered 16. Yet labels and ads often kept the old address for a few years - which address was written on the ribs of guns produced post 1881 or on the labels seems to be haphazard.

(edit: I'm wondering if the addition of "Rifle Manufacturers" might have had something to do with this success in advertising: "Two prominent Victorians were associated with E.M. Reilly. Sir Samuel Baker used a pair of Reilly 10 bores and inspired by Baker, Frederick Courtney Selous took a Reilly 10 bore to Africa on his first venture there. Selous’ gun was stolen shortly after he arrived and so it is mentioned only ruefully, but Sir Samuel’s pair achieved fame through his books. Because Baker was a hero to the Victorians and his books sold well, the fact that he used Reilly guns was a good endorsement. See SN 30363), Number 1 of a pair. Also a lot of London gun makers switched to "Gun & Rifle Manufacturers" at this time.

A couple of labels from royalty cases one with “Gun and Rifle Manufacturers” on the other - only “Gun Manufacturers.”

1883 (per gun Serial Number) (but an 1880 - allegedly - case) S/N: 25161
Rib: E.M. REILLY & CO. NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON. AND 2. RUE SCRIBE. PARIS
Label: E.M. Reilly Co.
Gun and Rifle Manufacturers
502 New Oxford Street
London
(lowest line illegible)
Comment: The case lid exterior is mounted with an ornately carved and engraved frame, with central crowned monogram for Alfonso XII and brass banner pierced with 'CONCURSO DE TIRO DE 1880' (Shooting competition 1880). This is strange - The gun should have been serial numbered in 1883-4. The tale of the gun is a twisted one. Nevertheless, this might be the origin of Reilly’s claim to be a gun maker for H.M the King of Spain. The ad for the gun claims that, “By 1887 his trade labels have the additional acknowledgements of 'By special appointment to His Majesty the King of Spain; His Majesty the King of Portugal; His Majesty the King of the Netherlands.’ “ (this in fact began appearing on his advertisements much earlier - 1876 for King of Portugal; circa 1882 for King of Spain and King of Netherlands).



This label was added to S/N 10354 (1857) when it was redone in the 1880’s or early 1890's. The label is unique - Note “Gun and Rifle Manufacturers”...the 502 Oxford address, and the simplified curlicues seem to find a echo in the 1886 label below although the Font's are different. (no scollops)(internal border just visible).



The Capitol letters "G", "R", & "M" in this label are similar to those in H&H and Watson Bros from the same era: And by the way, label art is in a way addictive...this is a good site with a lot of reproductions and I noticed their descriptions of Reilly reproduction labels recently changed to add date periods...maybe the influence of this DGS line? https://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog/TRADE_LABELS.html



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............Late 1870's-to 1886?? Unique label for 315 Oxford St. on Pistol cases? “Breech Loading Gun & Rifle Manufacturers"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Label for a Webly&Scott revolver. EM Reilly 315 Oxford street. Breech Loading Gun & Rifle Manufacturers: (no internal border)



Identical label on another Webley Scott (no internal border):

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1884?-1890? (addition of references to royalty to labels) GUN AND RIFLE MANUFACTURES
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In 1876 Reilly advertisements began mentioning making guns for the King of Portugal; by 1882 he'd added King of Netherlands (a quasi-maniac bully) and the King of Spain. 25161 (c1883) with a 1880 case for the King of Spain is one example; 25572 (c1884) with a rib inlaid with gold - E.M Reilly, London and Paris, “To their majesties the kings of Spain and Portugal” is another; (no internal border, no scollops)

1886 (per written note on label) S/N: 26584
Rib:
Label: E.M Reilly & Co.
wholesale and Retail
Gun and Rifle Manufacturers
16 New Oxford Street
London
Branch establishment: Rue Scribe, Paris
Comment: Gun is not extant; SN and date are written on the label. Crests of from left to right “by Special Appointment to H.M. King of Portugal”; “By Special Patent to H.M King of Netherlands”; “by Special Appointment to H.M. King of Spain”.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1890?-1898 (Rue Scribe closed 1886)(16 closed 1898) GUN MANUFACTURERS
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The post 1886 labels - possible 1890? the year EM died?) had 277 and 16 Oxford St. address, no rue Scribe, no mention of royalty, and reverted to calling the firm “Gun Manufacturers.” (no internal border)



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1898-1903 (Rue Scribe closed 1886)(16 Oxford closed 1898)(move from 277 to 295 Oxford in 1903) GUN & RIFLE MAKERS
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Two empty ornamental cases: GUN AND RIFLE MAKERS (not manufacturers) and 277. It could be anytime from 1886-1903 (guns were not included with the cases). - (16 closed 1898; moved from 277 to 295 Oxford 1903) Note that on presentation cases the font hasn't changed since the first one posted above 1859.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............1898-1911? GUN MANUFACTURERS (Air Cane)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

One final dramatic label from an air-cane. Cannot read it well but this one is odd. Did Reilly hire a circus poster illustrator for this label? (no internal border, no scollops). (edit: poscript post below shows this label was used 1898-1903 at 277, then at least once (with a handwritten scratch out of 277) at 295 Oxford street, post 1903).



I’ve found no labels with 295 Oxford Street (1903-1911) other than the below posted "carnival label" with 277 struck through and 295 written above it. Wouldn't mind seeing some of the post 1917 Riggs Reilly labels as well. Welcome additions. Oh yes...can anybody read Sanskrit?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.............Modern reproductions
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


For comparison - here are two of today's generic reproduction labels - No scollops.
.........Label used 1859-1867 (& 1879-1886??)...............................................................Label used 1868 - 71/72?



And here is a reproduction label. I've never seen an original which doesn't mean anything except I haven't seen it. Reilly's shooting gallery was at 315 Oxford Street...it's mentioned in his advertisements. This label...for whatever gun it was made for - and it may be in fact an advertisement not a trade label - highlights 315. It still has "Fusils a Bascule" on it so I suspect the original to have been made very early after the opening of 315 - circa 1859 (if anyone knows of a gun with this trade label on the case, please let me know about the Reilly gun...this had to come from someplace...two firms are advertising it.):

===================================================================================================================================
1860 - Reilly and the Volunteers - Yoemanry


This article from an 1860 British publication on the rifles and the Volunteer rifle regiments. The several pages on Reilly's entry in the 1859 trials is historically interesting; Also the militia and home guard had to supply their own weapons and were far more experimental and forward looking than Ordinance.

https://books.google.com/books?id=gVIBAA...lly&f=false











===================================================================================================================================
1860 - 1893 - Reilly and the Volunteers - Yoemanry -2


Reilly sold wholesale to volunteer units...he advertised in the "Volunteer Services Gazette" every week for 30+ years. Here is an example.

14 Jan 1860, "Volunteer Services Gazette"


03 Jun 1993 - "Volunteer Services Gazette"
===================================================================================================================================
1904 - Reilly agent in Hong Kong


Here is a 1904 mention of Reilly and the 295 Oxford Street address in the Directory and Chronicle of China, Hong Kong, Macao, Corea, Eastern Siberia, etc. - there were agents in the Far East - Lane, Crawford and Co., Hong Kong. So rhere was a Reilly catalog. Somewhere someone has a Reilly Catalog.

https://books.google.com/books?id=WYxEAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA1125&lpg=PA1125&dq=catalogue+at+our+agents,+lane,+crawford&source=bl&ots=POUcdPKrI4&sig=7BI-h_EOrWvqKIYU0lyM25o3qYg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjEzejIiKLZAhXQct8KHR7lDcIQ6AEINjAB#v=onepage&q=catalogue%20at%20our%20agents%2C%20lane%2C%20crawford&f=false




Lane Crawford was founded in 1850 by two Scots In Hong Kong as a sort of Macyi's type buy it all store. It now is into luxury goods all over China. I may write to see if they still have that catalog in their records someplace. Or they might be in the British Library.

===================================================================================================================================
1869-1898 - Reilly agent in America


And here is the American Agent for Reilly for 15 years...Joseph C. Grubb of Philadelphia - ad at the time of the 1876 centennial exposition in Philadelphia:



And since I live near DC and have access to Library of Congress - it just might have some of the Reilly Catalogs..or at least a Grubb one.see below:

"Manufacturers' trade catalogs are a source of much valuable and useful information for those interested in various decorative arts history, the history of design, and trends of various industries. Catalogs chronicle the development of different styles and tastes of the public and can be used to identify articles as well as to provide information on specifications, prices, and types of material used in construction. For the most part, however, trade catalogs have not fared well in libraries. Because of the catalogs' size and frequency of issue, many libraries are unable or reluctant to collect them. For those libraries that are interested, trade catalogs often are very difficult to obtain.
Fortunately, the Library of Congress has a representative collection of trade catalogs that are dispersed throughout the general collections. But because they are listed in the card catalog under many different headings, users interested in accessing them must resort to several strategies in order to find them.

This guide has been prepared to assist those users. The emphasis is on catalogs of 19th and early 20th century American craftsmen and manufacturers. There is a short bibliography on the history of manufacturing in the United States in the 18th and 19th centuries listing useful sources of information on a particular type of manufacture or on manufactures in a particular geographical area. Also listed are some catalogs from the Library of Congress collections for the following types of manufactures: furniture, silver, glassware, and pottery.

Of the sources listed in this guide, almost all are part of the general collections and are either on reference in the Main Reading Room or need to be requested from the stacks. The microform collections are to be requested in the Microform Reading Room. If you need assistance in locating the catalogs included in this guide, please consult a reference librarian."
==================================================================================================
25711 and Dave getting kicked and back blasted



Photos from the 2003 Vintager's. Dave shooting an 8 bore Reilly. Does anyone happen to know the details on this Reilly? SN, address on Rib, did it have a case? Label? etc. Thanks. (looks to me to be circa SN 16000 about 1871?)



I asked Dave about this and received this response:
"I will always remember shooting that monster! Kick wasn’t untennable but the air concussion was amazing. Unfortunately I have no details on the gun or owner,"

I may already have this 8 bore in the list above but still would welcome any info.

Edit: Mystery solved....not the identity of Scott but of the 8 bore. From the looks of the photo it's 25711, the gun former Maharajah gun posted a couple of times above: See https://jamesdjulia.com/item/1382-396/

===================================================================================================================================
1825 - 1885 - Reilly and the London Proof House



I've always been curious about when exactly J.C. Reilly became a "gun maker." He opened 12 Middle Row, High Holborn as a silver plate worker/"jeweler in 1814. In 1819 he allegedly entered a plate mark with the goldsmith's in London (unable to locate this mark - there is nothing to verify this unless he used "Charles" and left off Joseph)(apparently being allowed to enter a mark was a rite of passage - you just didn't walk into the silver trade and be allowed to put your initials all over the place). Then there is an 1829 advertisement which identifies him as both a gun maker and a silver plate worker.

However, this document seems to be pretty definitive evidence that by 1825 he was indeed a gun maker. I can't see the images of the plate itself. But here is the print record of the copperplate references to members of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers, London. (the London proof house)..listing Reilly, Joseph Chas - 1825.

https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.278485/2015.278485.A-History_djvu.txt
"THE PROOF PLATE OF THE WORSHIPFUL COMPANY
OF GUNMAKERS





"This copperplate is traditionally supposed to have been stamped with the accepted maker’s identification mark used by a maker when he was admitted as a freeman of the Company. The mark would serve to distinguish his barrels from those sent in to proof by other makers.
..
..
..

"The order of the stamps seems to be roughly chronological, although here and there Lter mprints occur out of order. The short but blurred top line dates back to about 1680, and the last line bears the stamps of gunsmiths of the last decade of the l8th century. In course of time and by the close scrutiny of marks on pieces in collections it may be possible to resolve the riddle set by the plate. I shall be interested to hear from any collector who can trace any of the marks which occur on the plate and are not among the makers’ marks given in this book. The photograph of the plate is reproduced by permission of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers of London.
,,
,,
,, (Reilly references extracted)

1825-40 - Reilly, Joseph Chas. London
1832 - Reilly & Co. London
1850 - Reilly, Edward M. London
Reilly, 1882, London. Breakdown action revolvers of -450 calibre.

Edit: I cannot be sure this list is correct; the file in digital format is unclear.

EDIT: The below site purports to have the names of all members of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers and Reilly's name does not come up. Now whether the site actually has what it purports to have is another question.

https://search.findmypast.com/search-wor...sions-1656-1936
===================================================================================================================================
1859 - Reilly and the Breech vs Muzzle loader contest


This 1859 book which aspires to objectively analyze the pros ad cons of Muzzle Loaders and Breech Loaders. is interesting: P. 254-292 detailed analysis of Breech loaders at the time and Reilly plays a part (selections posted below). Worth reading...especially the introduction dealing with the uproar and fights between muzzle loading and breech loading fans.

https://books.google.com/books?id=6ftIAA...gun&f=false






And here is the chart of the shoot-off in 1859 - the scales seem tilted towards the muzzle loaders since rapidity and ease of loading is not part of the grading scale; However, the Key point was the breech loader held its own.

If I manipulate the website correctly, it does not come up with many names. Also, some names it lists come up only in years which are many years past the actual known years of when they worked. For instance it has Purdey starting in 1883 or so.
===================================================================================================================================
1922 - Charles Riggs takes over Reilly


In August 1922 (widely reported on the internet as "1917" which cannot be) a fellow named Charles Riggs bought the Reilly name and marketed guns as "EM Reilly, London." I've identified about 8 guns extant sold as Reillys by Riggs. I bought the Riggs catalog and I'll pass along some observations which may do an injustice to him but these are impressions (and initial impressions only).

Riggs comes across as a small-time sports equipment retali salesman owning a small store; He for years sold BSA products and his store sold guns, motorcycles, bicycles, golf equipment, etc. BSA catalogs are around with his name on the front of them as a distributor/retail sales. Each "department" in the store was a small...almost closet-like.. space.

The photos in the catalog make him out to be something of a con-man. He was an active fellow and it appears something of a self-promotor. He was a sergeant in the Essex Yoemanry and organized reunion dinners from 1915 -1939 and in the process promoted himself to lieutenant. He also claimed to be a "crack shot" and to have shot championship matches at Bisley (but there is no record of him ever winning anything). He's pictured in a military uniform with sergeant stripes, every medal possible on him including a cross of some sort around his neck posing by a table full of trophies. And a picture of a cluttered small desk of the "Managing Director." His firm allegedly was in business for a long time yet the internet turns up almost nothing on him or his store except for a manual on cleaning guns and an offer by him to sell the UK home guard 100 Martini-Henry's with bayonets in 1915. I'll post several photos from the (very poor copy) of the catalog below as examples.

Here is the key point: There are Riggs-Reilly's on the market - I've identified several per the following post. In Europe they sell for a couple of hundred pounds if that. One, however, is currently being offered on a major gun sales site as an "EM Reilly" for a very expensive price. I will just warn our readers to be aware that a Riggs...is NOT an EM Reilly; they were not made by Reilly and a Riggs-Reilly can be identified by a six digit serial number. Haven't a clue who built the guns for Riggs but it might have been BSA given his connections to the firm:

Post 1917? (edit: August 1922) 130000? - 150000+ ("1" added to front of SN's) - Reilly name bought by Charles Riggs who continued to make “E.M. Reilly" guns. It looks like he added a "1" in front of the Reilly series when he took it over, - perhaps starting about (1)37,000? indicating he may have sold up to 15,000 numbered guns. Only a few can be found so far..
134183 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16ga. SxS shotgun. BLNE
136535 - E.M. Reilly..not mentioned. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE.
138279 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 20bore Shotgun SxS. BLE
140415 - E.M. Reilly of London. 16bore shotgun SxS. 30" steel barrels
140451 - E.M. Reilly, London. 16bore Shotgun SxS. (Charles Riggs, post 1917)
144939 - E.M. Reilly, London, 12 bore Shotgun SxS BLNE. 28 barrels.
146242 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London; 12bore. Top lever hammer gun. Pistol grip stock.
150570 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock non-ejector.

Note his comment in the introduction: "All our guns in the future will be named "E.M. Reilly & Co., London" thus adding another 25(pounds) to the value should you ever desire to sell it." (also adding to the price he charged for the guns).
















......................Charles Riggs......................................................................Prince Charles

There is at least one Reilly catalog available in UK per below. If any of the British readers are in the area of London University, it would be interesting to see that catalog. No idea from the website what age it is. Thanks.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/a0efbe7d-a34b-4135-988f-edbec1ffabee

You are in
103 - London University: University College London (UCL) Special Collections
GB
.....0103 BROUGHAM WB - Brougham Papers: William Brougham, 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux, correspondence and papers
..........This record (browse from here by hierarchy)

Catalogue description
E.M.REILLY & CO

Reference: BROUGHAM WB/E.M.REILLY & CO
Title: E.M.REILLY & CO
Date: undated
Held by: London University: University College London (UCL) Special Collections, not available at The National Archives
Language: English

==================================================================================================
19286. (early Jan 1875)



VALIDATION OF DATING METHOD: - for the historians.

A dating method for Reilly guns based on serial numbers and known "marker dates" is posted on page 9 above. A dozen more guns have been added to it (in a draft)...no surprises thus the metnodology seems pretty solid. There were doubts, however about the long period between Feb 1868 when he opened rue Scribe and Nov 1881 when the address numbers on Oxford street changed. I've just found 19286 on a British gun board, subject of a 2009 chat. Our above system would date 19286 to very late 1874 or very early 1875.(below excerpt extracted from edited page 9 posting)

1874: 18651 - 19285
18763 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 10 bore. Shotgun SxS. rebounding bar locks, underlever.
18766 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 500BPE. Rifle SxS; Underlever, rebounding hammer gun. (Krakow Kid's gun)
18782 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (no barrels). 12 boe, under lever, hammer gun. Action/stock only
18860 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe. Paris. 4bore Shotgun SxS. underlever, non-rebounding hammergun.
18954 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 500BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever, rebounding hammer gun. (Krakow Kid's gun)
19190 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun? SxS. BP proof, under lever, hammer gun; 1873 Anson Deeley fore end patent 3756. 1868 Purdey chopper lump patent; 24.5” barrels.

1875: 19286 - 19920
19286 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 10 bore. Shotgun SxS. Rebounding hammers
19827 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Side lever hammer gun. (Buffum).
..
..
..
The chat analysis...posted below...while confused like everybody who writes about Reilly by someone's claim (possible Brown?) that Reilly closed rue Scribe in 1872 and reopened it in 1884...results in a spot on conclusion - late 1874 or early 1875. I'll post the conversation here and photos because this is in a way some validation of the dating method and indicates the model is pretty darn accurate.

https://www.internetgunclub.com/archived-forum/posts.php?topicid=1344

I am a new member to this excellent forum and would value some assistance on the aforementioned gun. A little bit of current information;

- 10 bore hammergun, rebounding hammers, breech face in good condition with no pitting; some relatively basic scroll engraving. Table reads "H Walker's 1098 Patent"
- 30 inch Damascus barrels, excellent condition with v minor exterior pitting in some areas. Game/concave rib, wedge and escutcheon fore-end; recently nitro-proofed
- Semi pistol grip stock with original heel plate; some minor marking and one small (1cm) chip out of stock close to action.

Confusingly, the gun has a slight difference in serial numbers; the table reads 19286, the barrels and foreend 19206, the trigger guard 1928 – could the table be a mistaken number? Any help on assessing what the proof marks mean would be most helpful!

Guidance on history, originality and possible value would be greatly appreciated. I would like to use the gun ongoing for ‘fowling so am genuinely keen to find out more. A brief review of the history of Reilly could indicate manufacture between 1869-1872 (due to Paris address), but happy to be proven wrong here.

++++++++++++++response from “Tiger” (hope Lagopus or some of the other UK members known him - the response is excellent)++++++++++++++++++

As far as we know, the Reillys, like most gunmakers, bought the various components and assembled them, or bought almost complete guns "in-the-white", stocked and finished them, and put their name on them. Although this gun has London proof marks, all of it is likely to have been made in Birmingham. Nothing wrong with that, good servicable weapons of better quality than anywhere else in the world for the price. The "Best" quality in a London gun came mainly from the final finishing which added a little to reliability and "feel" but most to beauty / elegance and pride of ownership.

Your gun was a nominal 10 bore but actually measured 11 bore. Lovely damascus barrels bearing the crown over V London View Mark (1637-1954) for preliminary inspection, the crown over bar over GP Provisional Proof Mark (1813-date) to reveal faults before any expensive work was done on the barrels, and the crown over GP London Definitive Proof Mark (1637 to date), all these adding up to Black Powder Proof. The barrel flats have two of these original marks as expected.

The action flats have the expected View mark, and they have the H Walker patent mark for his barrel bolting and safety for drop-down actions patent No 455 of 12 February 1872 ( Use No. 1098 ) .

Of equal importance to the marks are the ones that don't appear e.g. no NOT FOR BALL or CHOKE mark (so see what patterns it throws with various cartridges). The first of these was introduced in 1875, so this and the patent date mean the gun was made definitely not before Feb 72, or after 1875.

It must have been made a couple of years after 1872, say 1874 to early 1875, and we favour the latter because even if the gun was made by a large trade maker, the 1098 use number is quite a large number. You will have noted that neither we nor anyone else really know when the Paris shop closed, we only think it was shortly after 1872.

The gun was re-proved after 2005, we can't read the crossed swords date code and confess to not having the key to these recent codes! The two crowns over SUP are for the Superior Proof Mark for 1200 Bars, 10x76 is 10 bore 76mm chambers; 19.4 is the barrel diameter and crown over BNP is the Birmingham Nitro Proof Mark. Crown over R is the re-proof mark - why it is deemed necessary we don't know!

We think you can take it that the serial number is 19286 and that the engraver was an old man with poor eyesight and and a bad memory. Unlike the other gun we mentioned, we don't think this gun is made up of muddled parts!






Hi,

I have responded to your PM.

SXS 40
I am sure this must have been posted before but Cornell Publication have a 24 page Riggs/Reilly catalogue that they sell, from 1924.

https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/item_desc.php?item_id=3510

Regards

AlanD
Sydney
Thanks Alan...that's where the Riggs catalog excepts above came from - and I'm not sure it's 1924 - I think it's several years earlier. I would really hope that someday, some of the UK guys, could wander over to London University and take a look at that Reilly catalog in the archives.

And by the way I may have the name of the agent in Australia who imported Reilly's. I'll look it up. Do any of the agent's catalogs exist in the museums there?

Hammers Back – Issue No. 14 March 2004
"More luck came my way when I was given the advertisement on page 86/87 in 1866 edition of Walch’s Almanac. Now Walch is a Hobart (Tasmania) firm who have a long history associated with the printing and stationery trade. At that time they were the appointed Tasmanian Agents for E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 New Oxford Street, London, and begged to announce that the Reilly was built “on systems not liable to derangement”. The advertisement shows pair of under-lever pin- fire guns built on the Jones under-lever system in bore sizes 12, 15 17, and 24. Prices ranged from 12 to 35 guineas. "
I have not come across any Reilly catalogues in my travels, unfortunately...

Alan
===================================================================================================================================
1868-1885 - Reilly and 2 rue Scribe, Paris


For history the following will address several questions about Reilly in Paris starting out with location and the name of the manager of his shop:

In February 1868, following his huge success at the 1867 Paris Universalle exposition, Reilly opened a store on 2 rue Scribe, in the Grand Hotel, the just opened prestigious hotel near the Opera. Here is the map of the location. In addition this post will address the multiple claims that he later at some indeterminate time opened a shop at 29 rue du Faubourg Saint Honore, an unlikely occurrence.



The Grand Hotel was opened by Empress Eugenie the wife of Napoleon III in Summer 1862. It was and remains one of the most prestigious hotels in Paris. Reilly’s decision to place his shop there was an indication of business confidence and his business acumen which emphasized location, location, location. Reilly immediately added 2 rue Scribe to his advertisements (the first one found is: PALL MALL GAZETTE, London, 12 Feb 1868: E. M. REILLY and CO., 502 NEW OXFOD STREET, London. Branch Establishments- 315, Oxford-street, London ; and 2, Rue Scribe, Paris) and to his gun ribs (the first one identified is SN 14983). He occupied this store until it was closed in Late July 1885. This is attested to by hundreds of advertisements and dozens of existing serial numbered and non-serialed numbered guns sold with the address on the ribs and on trade labels in the cases. Below is a best estimate of the location of his store.





What happened to the store during the September 1870-Jan 1871 siege of Paris by the Prussians during the Franco-Prussian War is unknown. Then of course the Commune of Paris seized control of the city from March 1871 until its bloody suppression by the French Army under MacMahon in late May 1871. The manager of 2 Rue scribe was likely a fellow named Monsieur Poirat, who in Sept 1871 offered to sell 6,000 Chassepot rifles to the French military government under the 3rd French Republic which replaced Napoleon in Sep 1870. See below entry - 14 Sep 1871 Assemblee National session. Further research is necessary to pin down the identity of Armurier Poirat. (edit: by the way, I've noted that Birmingham Small Arms in 1871 was making Chessepot actions - wonder if this was to have been the source of M. Poirat's guns?). **EDIT: Reilly was prosecuted in October 1870 for sending 2,000 cartridges to his store in Paris clandestinely, which violated British neutrality in the conflict. This may be why Reilly never followed through on selling the Chassepots.



Advertisements to support the above inevitable conclusion that Reilly was at 2 rue Scribe continuously for 18 years can be posted. Alternatively instead of posting 500 advertisements from 1868-85, researchers could just check out the trade label post above.

However, the numerous and wide-spread assertions on the internet by virtually everyone who has written about Reilly in the past must be first addressed that
...1) He closed Rue Scribe in the early 1870's then miraculously reopened it at the identical location 10 years later. - this has been taken care of above and this claim is erroneous.
...2) That at some point he opened a shop at 29 rue du Faubourg, St. Honore...which is addressed below.

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1880's - Reilly and 29 rue du Faubourg, St. Honore, Paris


...2) and at some point he allegedly opened a store at 29 rue du Faubourg Saint Honore. This claim is so wide-spread (perhaps started by Nigel Brown in British Gunmakers, v.I?) that it has become an "urban truth." However, not a single advertisement with this address, a gun with that address on a rib, a trade label has been found in the two years of this research into Reilly. If anyone knows how this started or can support a claim that Reilly ever had a shop on this street please post the evidence.

Rue du Faubourg Saint Honore has been a prestigious street since its incorporation into the Parisian city limits in the early 19th century. Today it is ground zero for Fashion - Hermes, Jacombe, Chanel, etc. But there was at least one Armurier located at 24 rue du Faubourg in the late 19th-early 20th century (Pirlet) so one supposes perhaps Reilly could have had a store-fromt there for a little while at some time or another. Note, however, that the address is a hotel...there are two store windows on either side of the entrance and one in 1880 was occupied by an English tailor. In the 1930's Coco Chanel had one of her apartments at the hotel - the suite above the door.

1901 photo of rue du Faubourg Saint Honore. 24 rue du Faubourg (location of Armurier Pirlet) is the first store on the right of the photo (where the two women are standing; the one with the Venetian looking 3rd floor). 29 rue du Faubourg would be 50 yards down the street on the left. 24 rue du Faubourg burned down in 1903 to be replaced by the current building occupied by Hermes.



This is 29 rue du Faubourg (allegedly once a Reilly location) today....there are two store fronts on left and right of entrance:



This is a view of a bill from John Hopper from 1880. He was an English tailor located at 29 rue Faubourg. The logo on the bill is from the 1878 exposition universelle in Paris. I considered that perhaps Reilly met Hopper there and at some point Hopper might have acted as a mail drop for Reilly. There is nothing more in history about Hopper however, and somehow this seems unlikely. (Note the Coco Chanels apartment above the hotel entrance):



As mentioned above there was at least one gun shop (Armurier Pirlet) located on that street at 24 rue du Faubourg, where "a dozen artisans" worked. So theoretically it's possible another armurier (Reilly) might have been located nearby.



The above photos show that it is unlikely but vaguely possible that Reilly somehow could have had a shop on rue du Faubourg if one accepts that he never used the address in advertisements or on guns. It was a prestigious location which Reilly would have liked. But this seems very far-fetched. So if anyone has any info confirming this location as a Reilly address, please post the evidence. Otherwise and until proven, this should be regarded as an "internet legend."

Edit: Roy Forssburg in "Answers" provided a long history of Reilly a few years ago. He said it had taken him 10 years to compile (before the internet)... It was until now the best recounting of Reilly history; yet there were errors in it. He had this post: "1883... A trade label of this period shows “16, New Oxford Street, 277, Oxford Street & 29, Rue Du Fabourg, St Honore, Paris.” (sic). If Roy reads this, please provide access to the case label/trade label. It may be unique.
http://www.answers.com/Q/Where_can_you_f...on_serial_15346
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1868 - 1890 - Reilly and Emperor Napoleon III


Continuing the Reilly in Paris theme - In this post I'll attempt to provide more clarity to the Reilly claim to have provided guns to Napoleon III of the 2nd French empire.

Here is are typical Reilly Advertisements with this claim ("FOURNISSEURS BREVETES DE S.M L'EMPEREUR"). The ads appeared from 1868 to 1871. They didn't last long - Napoleon III was captured by the Prussians at Sedan 4 Sep 1870 and the 3rd French Republic was declared immediately thereafter. The ads with the claim, however, continued to appear in travel guides in 1871 and 1872-they evidently had been written and printed before the Sedan disaster.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Now what guns did Reilly provide to "Son Majestie l'Empereur" (his majesty the Emperor)? Here's a clue from this board.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums...rds=Sturtevant&Search=true#Post99057

David Trebalien (crossedchisels) had the history and one of the guns; Dr. Drew posted the pictures. Here is David's comment: "Thanks to Dr Drew, Once again for posting the 20bore E M Reilly, I have the 12b also Cased with allLoading Goodies. The letter along with the 2 Guns is, European Royalty and the Reilly Invoice shows just how Mr Sturtevant of Newport R.I.U.S.A. brought the Guns to America.I am not the owner, just the Researcher/Cleaner/Photo'Snapper".The Empress Euginie, Mother of Napoleon lll. Used the 20b Quite Often' I hope to get the story into "ONE of the Glossie's...Some Grand Photos. The Guns are the Quality expected from London Best Makers of the period. The stripped-down photos will show this...DirtyDave /cc".

I've written Dave to try to get more info (Eugenie was wife not mother). Dr. Drew had this label on file but no other pics; It was SN 17536 (per chart on page 9, 1871 - a 12 bore SxS muzzle loader - instructions printed on the label - Reilly addresses at 502 Oxford Street and 2 rue Scribe on the label. - Handwriting is in English not French.
1871 of course is after the fall of the 2nd empire making the claim that this gun was given or sold to the Emperor's family a bit suspect!!! Still Reilly retained the medals he won at the 1867 Paris Universelle on his trade labels and ads for 1871 and for some ads 1872. The Emperor died in 1872. ),

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

And here is 1868 Reilly publicity in a French catalog which has possibly the worst advertising poem in the history of commercial ditty's. However, it has a revealing quote from journalist-writer/politician Anatole de la Forge, which I'll translate, then the poem makes grandiose claims, takes a swipe at Purdey and other "establisment" London gunmakers. Then goes on to declare an intention to (I think) conquer the American market.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Translation: "Extract from the magazine 'Le Siecle' the Century), December 26th 1867. Among the English private industrial products (at the Paris Universelle exposition of 1867), one finds a series of arms with the most beautiful finish and an execution beyond compare. Amongst the first rank are these admirable shotguns and hunting rifles from the house of E.M Reilly and Co., and we applaud the decision by the jury which awarded to this house the gold medal of honor."

Tis for PRESENTATION that they meet renown,
Those in '67 at Paris shown. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
And did the whole England outshine
Were purchased for the Grand Duke Constantine
In part, and the rest Count Orloff are thine;
. . . . . . . .2. Russians and no fake news here
To sole Empire in Europe they attain,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3
They've now an establishment beside the Seine,. . . . . . . . . .4
There they stand, Sol irradiated Tor!
They've been commission'd to supply the Emperor. . . . .5
Some fitted up they gorgeously adorn
For eastern princes at the rising morn. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .6
But that which Freemen of the West require
Is Science and Art borne even higher;
ďż˝ No objection to good Damascened designs,. . . . . . . . . .7
For those together blended fame assigns
A place-beyond all we in London know
To Messrs. E.M. Reilly & Co.
What other houses charge sixty-five pounds
For, and keep you four or five months (which astounds)
,. . . . .8 (take that Purdey)
In waiting for; one exactly the same
For which only ÂŁ45 they claim -
Having it ready too in thirty days
Or less, for which they merit highest praise. . . . . . . . ...9
Exactly the same I've already said
The Gun shall be, by my Art-Heroes made,
But only here to give what's rightly due
You may be able thus to strike more true;
No anxiety need the nations feel
Who with our intelligent firm would deal,
For I've them in their mode of business tracked . . . . . . .10
Their works found for any clime ready packed,
Then again independently of this
Their assortment in the metropolis
Is all unrivaled, wherefrom to select,. . . . . . . . . . . . ..11
Our Delegates witness that I'm correct,
Here they purchased Guns for Presentation;
For such our firm's renown'd to our nation
Uprising in the West I introduce them,. . . . . . . . . . . ..12
Their Guns may each be styled science' gem
I bear them o'er the main, for 'tis my belief
Each Pioneer Family to be its Chief,
Could not a present more acceptable. . . . . . . . . . . ..13
Give, thus on the reciprocal principle
And amicable, may I rank Donor
Thro' those who won the Medal of Honor,. . . . . . . . ..14
Where arts myriads of the world had striven,
Thy pledge of immortality was given
In the mental battle of nations '67,. . . . . . . . . . . . ...15
On the bona fide Manufacturers
The practical and active firm, confers
Thy bard this lay triumphant, from all beneath
The sky of England, Bay and Laurel Wreath,
Even as they rank in all great Britain 1st,
Be their deeds in highest literature rehearsed;
To many reams are their productions sent
They're well represented at the Orient,
And I will place them far above the rest
In the great market of the Boundless West. . . . . . . . . ...16


1. "'67 at Paris" - refers to the medals he won an the Paris Universelle Exposition

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

2, Were purchased for the Grand Duke Constantine; In part, and the rest Count Orloff are thine;: It looks like he sold his entire 1867 Paris Universelle exposition stock of guns to two Russian Grandees...Grand Duke Constantine Nikolayevich Romanoff and Count Nikolay Alexandrovich Orloff. "Grand Duke Constantine was an accomplished man and the second son of Czar Nikolas I. Count Orloff, of the famous Orloff family, was Russian Ambassador to Belgium from 1860-70 (when Russia along with Britain guaranteed Belgian independence) and then Paris (1870-82), both very sensitive diplomatic posts. Reilly could have claimed to have provided guns to the Russia Tsar's.

..........................Grand Duke Constantine Nikolayevich...................................Count Nikolay Alexandrovich Orloff

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

3. "Sole Empire in Europe" is a mystery. Napoleon III had declared a "French Empire" in Dec 1852. But there was an Austrian Empire which became Austro-Hungarian Empire in 1867 and a Russian Empire at that time. And an Ottoman Empire though Europeans would hardly consider it "European." (Classic definition of "European" is - participation in the Crusades, reformation and 30 years' War.)

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

4, The reference to the "establishment by the Seine" refers to the opening of 2 Rue Scribe (Feb 1868). - (see post above re rue Scribe)

5. "commission to supply the Emperor" must be origin of his claim in Reilly advertisements for a couple of years 1868-70-1 to be a supplier of guns to Napoleon III and that's where David's gun references come in - more below.

........................President then Emperor Lewis Napoleon III........................................Empress Eugenie
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

6. "For eastern princes at the rising morn": Reilly had an office in Calcutta and an agent in Madras and sold numerous presentation guns to Indian Rajah's.

......SN 16139 (Douglas Tate's Double Gun Journal article 1994).................................................SN 12532 (See chart for date)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

7. "good Damascened designs": Reference to Reilly Damascus barrels

8. What other houses charge sixty-five pounds; For, and keep you four or five months (which astounds) This is a clear swipe at Purdey and the English gun establishments - "They'll charge you 60 pounds for a gun and you'll have to wait months." (A few months earlier in London, Purdey had sent an arched-eyebrow note to Reilly's store at 315 New Oxford - next door to Purdey - objecting to some words by a Reilly salesman, who apparently had told a buyer that a gun in Reilly's store was proofed by Purdey but was half the price because of no Purdey name (or did the salesman say the customer could get a gun at Reilly's which was as good as a Purdey but for half the price?) (from Terry Weiland's excellent article "Reilly of Oxford Street" in 2014 Gun Digest). This little dig was probably Reilly's come-back.

9. In waiting for; one exactly the same; For which only ÂŁ45 they claim ;Having it ready too in thirty days; Or less, for which they merit highest praise. i.e.: Reilly will charge a quarter less and you'll get it in less than 30 days!

10. For I've them in their mode of business tracked -; This lays out the Reilly business model in spades - he was not trying to be Purdey as John Cambell claimed in his 2015 piece in Double Gun Journal- he planned to undercut the prestige makers in price, deliver the goods 6 times as fast and give a really quality product at the same time, making up for less profit per gun by (relative) volume of sales. (Reilly at this time and throughout the 1870's sold three times as many numbered guns as Purdey along with massive traffic in licensed and used guns.)

11. Is all unrivaled, wherefrom to select: Extolls the selection a buyer can find at the Reilly stores in London.

12. Uprising in the West I introduce them. Plans to expand into the American Market

13. Each Pioneer Family to be its Chief,; Could not a present more acceptable. A perfect present for the head of a pioneer family

14. Thro' those who won the Medal of Honor. Refers to the 1867 Paris Universelle gold medal

15. Again refers to the Paris Universelle

16. And I will place them far above the rest; In the great market of the Boundless West. Go West young man. Within a year he had an American Agent - Joseph C. Grubb & Co. in Philadelphia and he was one of three English Breech-loaders listed in the 1871 Johnson Great Western Gun Catalog:

1871 J. H. Johnston Great Western Gun Works catalog:
Muzzle loader = sold as "English", "Belgian", "American", only Greener is called out by name
Breech loader = Greener, Westley Richards, E. M. Reilly & Co

Notice that Grubb ranks Reilly with Purdey, Greener, Westley Richards, Scott...and does NOT include him in the "cheaper English guns."

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

And the end of Napoleon III and Reilly's claim to an attachment to the Royal family - Sedan September 1870 (Notice how much Bismark looks like US Grant in his dress):

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Argo44, You really need to write a DGJ article, and maybe a book.
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1840's - Reilly and the pepperpot (facetious)


Getting there....slowly. slowly Reilly, a very prominent gun maker of the 19th century emerges from the shadows and there are enough guys here who shoot Reilly's who can attest to their quality.

Actually I suggested an article to Dan Cote at DGJ via e-mail pointing out that the last article on Reilly in 2015 had some errors in it...heard nothing back. Douglas Tate who is a gun magazine editor suggested I write something for his magazine but there is so much. I think the key research is dating the guns...from that comes history, labels, and verification of frauds....that would be a relatively easy article to write with a fold out reference sheet for auction houses and gun dealers to use. But maybe a book would be more in order...the more I get into the subject.

And I find his relationship to the 19th century period (oh heck to the era of that famous reprobate FLASHMAN)...fascinating. (And Flashmen allegedly knew all these people - Bismark, Napoleon III, Slept with the Empress, was at Rorke's Drift, Charge of the Light Brigade, met Orloff....the greatest, funniest, bawdiest and - while fiction - maybe most psychologically accurate history of British imperial expansion in the 19th century). (I'd bet that pepperpot in Flashman's hand was sold by Reilly, except it was before the 3rd Sikh war..pre-1847 Reilly move to 502 Oxford Street and I haven't found any Reilly pepperpots with 316 High Holborn on the rib) -
HOLD ON - WAIT A MINUTE - ERROR...see below.




A Reilly's six shot 'pepperpot' pistol, c.1850 (Date obviously wrong-with that address it's pre 1847), the barrel tips engraved with stiff leaves, struck with proof marks with underfire ring trigger,
profusely engraved action inscribed 'Reilly 316 Holborn, London, J. R. Cooper's patent', barrel 8.5cm overall 19.5cm
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...fc-a4480112aa71

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1825 - 1912 - Reilly's business model


Reilly’s business model from the first days of the firm was clear and spelled out numerous times in numerous ways.
— Put out an excellent high-quality gun
— Respond with alacrity to orders
— Beat everybody’s prices.

The poem in the advertisement above claims he could fill a high-quality order in under 30 days while the “establishment”..the Purdey’s, Holland and Holland’s, took months and later even years. So how did he do this? How did he fill orders in three weeks for the prices he charged undercutting everyone yet with the exquisite quality and delicate balance that is the Reilly hallmark? It’s not for nought that when I first touched the Reilly I bought, the one which started this researchSN 34723, it felt like a rapier and everything else like battle axes. The answer to this question may also answer the question of whether Reilly “manufactured” his own guns.

A lot has been written about Reilly and others being supplied barrels, actions, etc. “in the white” from Birmingham. Reilly owners have noted similarities with Westley Richards, Webley, W.C. Scott. One writer noticed that some Reilly actions were identical to those built by Birmingham genius maverick Thomas Brian (from Terry Weiland’s excellent article “Reilly of Oxford”, 2014 Gun Digest). Reilly like many London gun makers at the time was not an innovator. Reilly’s only took out two patents, both military related (one in 1840 for a mortar bomb and one in 1869 for an explosive bullet)(I'll post those some day because I have them). Yet he successfully marketed beautiful guns on the cutting edge and is widely acknowledge as being amongst first three London gun makers to seize onto the LeFracheaux center-break gun concept.

In addressing his business model, here are a few facts:

1). Reilly did not serial number guns he did not “build.” This has been firmly established by this line. He Serial Numbered about 30,000 guns pretty much chronologically with the breaks noted in 1847 and the off shoot numbering by J.C. Reilly the “7000 series” mentioned above. By “build” he had to have made them….even if he used parts in the rough from others.

2). Reilly’s (father and son) engraving, from the time he was a jeweller/plateworker is almost immeditately recognizable for its style and quality. Almost exclusively with designs and roses - no animals, dogs, ducks or hunters. And he engraved everything that came in the door, bayonets, swords, Colt, Trantor, Adams revolvers, 1853 Enfields, Martini-Henry’s, etc. etc.



3). Reilly’s stocks were subjects of comments even in his own time and today are almost immediately recognizable. He was one of the first to use French Walnut and to see a Reilly poorly restocked is like looking at a Leonardo poorly framed.



4). In the 1881 census, according to Brown (and I have not seen these census records - so this is secondary sourcing), Reilly claimed to be employing 300 workers which included engravers, finishers and stockers. There has been a lot of hemming and hawing and harrumphing trying to reconcile this figure with a pre-conceived notion that Reilly didn’t make guns.

5). Reilly was known to stockpile barrels at least after EM’s death.
.........-- On this line Toby Barclay mentioned that he had sold SN 35079, a 12 bore. SxS SLE shotgun. It was numbered circa 1900-1901 yet Toby remarked that the barrels were proofed pre-1896.



..........-- Also per above, Terry Lubzinski's 12 bore is SN 303xx and should have been numbered about 1891, yet the barrel has "Not for Ball" which went out in 1887.



6). Reilly advertised having a shooting range where prospective customers could fire at targets 300 yards away - no one has ever found that range but unlike the anguish about his “factory” no one seems to question its existence.

May 1851 advertisement relating to the Crystal Palace exposition:


Inevitably a conclusion must be reached that the 1881 census is indeed correct:
1. Reilly stockpiled barrels,
2. stockpiled actions,
3. finished his own guns,
4. stocked the guns himself,
5. and engraved his own guns.
6. The grace and artistry of his guns are his own - but he was aware of this talent too - see the poem above and his immodest mention of “art heroes,” And by the way the French were too…Here are quotes from French articles at the time claiming that Reilly’s genius came from his contact with France via rue Scribe.



"Almost all the shooters used English guns of large caliber. We saw in their hands magnificent arms signed Purdey, A & Ch. Lancaster, Grant and certainly E.M. Reilly, that English gun maker who has been established at rue Scribe for two years in Paris itself. The guns of M. Reilly have gained a lot from contact with and a taste for Parisian art, and have acquired a finish, a perfection in wood, an elegance that one does not always find in English made arms...."



"This year I saw at the Game Fair a hammer gun with round action from the 1870's signed by the London gun maker Reilly & Co., of an elegance combined with a delicateness of finish and a solidity of fabrication, which placed it at the level of the best gun of no matter what of the last century,"

I’m going to follow-up on this, especially expanding on the question of engraving - because at the time engraving was artisanal; everybody did it and they were not paid a lot for it.

But one thing Reilly owners can do to test this theory is to take a look at the date their barrels were proofed (if they were a Reilly product - they were proofed in London) and compare these dates to the dates the guns were serial numbered (see my chart on page 9 above). Terry Buffum has handled more Reilly’s than any man alive and I’d appreciate his opinion. Harry (HWK) - SXS40 has about 8 of Terry’s Reillys dating from 1856 to 1888 and could probably reinforce the theory just by looking in his gun closet.



I want to add this from his 1862 London exposition entry. Reilly guarantees the guns he makes. Later in the 1880's his ads guarantee everything he sells. But this ad is perhaps telling; the 50 yard range was at 315 New Oxford Street:

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Thoughts on engraving


Before I lose this chat again, this is an interesting comment from the site "Engravers Cafe" on engravers from the 19th century by a poster "Highveldt," which is relevant to the above discussion on Reilly finishing his own guns. It was a comment on Terry Weiland's article on engraving in which Terry sort of said engraving was really used as a type of "stove paint."

https://books.google.td/books?id=de9XBAA...int&f=false

The chat was funny but very informative:
http://www.engraverscafe.com/archive/index.php/t-10485.html?s=cfbe6b81099c03ea2457b7cbdbf3f47e

Engraving is like....stove paint? I don't think that is what he said. Who knows what a so called gun writer ever means, but here is what he said: "The truth is, a bulino-engraved gun will never look as good as the day it comes out of its protective box. Every scratch and bump will deface the engraving until it looks like a flyspecked lithograph in a cheap saloon. At which point a coat of stove paint might not be a bad idea."

I do not care much for Mr. Weiland's writings, even though I have some of his books. Weiland quotes some of Mr. Greener's opinions about the gun trade in this article--a person I do not think I would have liked in his day. Although Mr. Greener was not found guilty of stealing the Anson & Deeley action design in court, many tradesmen of his day as well as I in this day think that he did steal it.

Weiland raises a point about the changes in valuation of engraving on a gun in UK. I am a English gun restorer and only a learner engraver (in order to repair some engraving on guns I restore). Engraving and engravers were just another craft/trade in the time of the E.M. Riley shotgun Weiland references. For example: E.J. Churchill sends a note and a set of barrels over to the excellent engraver Mr. Sumner on the morning of March 18, 1904 with the note reading: "Barrels of 1398 (gun number) To name (engrave the Churchill name and address), rough rib & engrave it these must be here tonight as they have to be blacked & go away tomorrow morning certain. Please Oblige; signed E.J. Churchill" From this note we can assume the Barrel blacker worked all night to get the barrels blacked for the customer gun to be shipped, as it usually takes 5 or 6 blacking cycles for a barrel to be completed--the blacker probably did not finish until late the next day.

In most shops, including the London best shops of Purdey, Holland, Boss, Stephen Grant and so forth engravers earned about the same as a head barrel maker, stocker and actioner. In 1875 Freedrick Beesley (later inventor of the Beesley spring opener action and which has been used by Purdey ever since they purchased the rights from Beesley in 1880) made 4 pounds six pence for the month, while J. Mace Sr., Engraver made about the same. During the same month J. Lucas, Purdey's famous engraver who developed the Purdey house style of engraving made the astounding amount of 8 pounds---This was twice the amount of wages to paid to any other Purdey craftsman.

In March 1936 at Purdey's J. Lovett, Engraver was paid 3 pounds, 8 shilling and 4 pence, while the famous Purdey actioner Ernest D. Lawrence was paid 3 pounds, 5 shillings.

However at the end of November 1952 Ernest D. Lawrence was earning 12 pounds, 9 shillings as an actioner and the young apprentice Ken Hunt, Engraver earned 3 pounds 5 shillings.

We all should rejoice that the demand in best quality English, Italian, German, Belguim and other shotguns (primarily demand driven by American buyers) has changed the fate and earnings of not only engravers, but the skilled gunmaker trades.

These are just some rambling thoughts of an old man who loves fine guns, mostly fine English guns.
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1835 - 1898 - Reilly and airguns - repost


With nothing to do, in the middle of nowhere for a few weeks. I picked up a Sherlock Holmes Anthology and re-read "The Adventure of the Empty House"...the 1st story in the return of Holmes after his supposed death. A cracking good story...and since Col. Sebastian Moran tried to kill Holmes with an air-rifle (an event that Harry Flashman also participated in if you believe Flashman and the Tiger), I thought I'd repost the line on EM Reilly Air-Canes since the photos to it have been held hostage by an extortionist's website.



And by the way, Lewis and Clark carried an air-gun with them on their 1804-06 trek across America. It's in the NRA museum here in the DC area.



I'm going to do two things this time 1) explain why I think EM Reilly published his treatise on air guns in late 1847-early 1848 and not 1850 as is everywhere reported on the internet; 2) date the canes by the usual method of name on the gun/cane but also by the labels in the cases, an advantage of having dated the trade labels per above (understanding that the names the Reilly's put on their non-serial numbered firearms often varied).

Reilly's both were heavily into air canes and air-rifles throughout the 1830's-40's. as early as 1843 Reilly began advertising for "Improved Air Canes" by "Reilly Jnr" (Edward M. Reilly) - (and by the way, the company is advertised as "Reilly, Gun maker"...not J.C. Reilly, etc. I've never noticed this before and need to check out when this began).

...........09 Dec 1843, "London Illustrated News."


I'll also post this ad from "London Illustrated News," 24 Apr 1847 - which advertises Reilly, mentions "Reilly Jnr" and air canes ,and their brand new address at 502 New Oxford Street (note the name used on the ad - "Reilly"); and the advertisement clarifies the address: "Removed from 316 Holborn".



Which sets the stage for comments about EM Reilly's Treatise on Air Guns. Here is the reprinted cover.



Edward M. identified himself as “Reilly, Junr” (as in the 1843 advertisement above and in the 1847 ad after the move to Oxford Street)….The address of the firm on the title page is No. 502, New Oxford Street, “removed from 316 Holborn,” London. This phrase “removed from 316 Holborn” is telling. The Reilly’s quit using the "removed from Holborn" phrase in ads less than a year after the move, by the end of December 1847 per the dated serial numbers on guns and advertisements.

======================================================
Xxxxx August 1835 - March 1847. possible 1843?

Name: J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBURN, LONDON
Description: This cane rifle consists of two parts painted black enamel which measures just under 38 inches including the screw on horn handle. The center joint ring is marked "REILLY 316 HOLBORN LONDON IMPROVED". The pump is screwed onto the upper portion to fill the chamber with air. The pump consists of an iron tube with brass ends and a screw on iron handle for the pump. The tube is marked "J.C. REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON". The lower portion of the cane houses the breech and firing mechanism. After the chamber is "pumped up", the two pieces are screwed together and the muzzle end has a brass tip which screws off and the attached wooden barrel plug comes out. The breech is opened by a sliding lever and is loaded with a round bullet through a round hole on top of the shaft. A key is then used to cock it and a small post "trigger" pops out of the side. The trigger is simply pushed to fire the rifle. The barrel is rifled and gauges at 38 caliber. It is equipped with a small blade front and notched rear sights.

Comment: The "Improved" engraving leads me to associate this cane with the above 1843 advertisements...
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/55/64/reilly-co-edward-m-air#detail



======================================================
Xxxxx August 1835 - March 1847

Name: J.C. REILLY, 316 HOLBORN, LONDON
Description: .41 CAL; RIFLED BBL, BORE GOOD, BLACK PAINTED FINISH, HORN CANE HANDLE, COMES WITH ORIGINAL PUMP, FIXED SIGHTS, ROUND BALL LOADS INTO A ROTATING BREACH, BUTTON TRIGGER, COCKING KEY INCLUDED, MAKER'S MAHOGANY TAKE DOWN CASE, BRASS MUZZLE PROTECTOR

Comment: This is the only Reilly pre-1847 move to New Oxford street label that Ive ever seen. It's fitting it's in an air cane case - that case stayed in closets.
https://ellwoodepps.com/joesph-charles-reilly-air-gun-cane.html
Comment:



======================================================
Xxxxx 1848 - 1855

Name: REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET,
Description: 1
Comment: This label was used from 1848 to 1855 when two medals were added on either side of "London." The "take-down stock" for the air-cane is amazing, apparently covered in pebble worked leather.
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...4f-a41800b08eda



======================================================
7801 ?? circa 1855. (the date in the advertisement is clearly wrong)

Name: REILLY, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: REILLY LONDON A RARE CASED 28-BORE PERCUSSION COMBINATION WALKING-STICK GUN serial no. 7801. circa 1845 comprising of a 28 3/4in. re-browned octagonal damascus rifle barrel signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON` (renewed) small dove-tailed crescent fore-sight blued standing notch rear-sight with one folding leaf a 29 3/4in. re-browned damascus round shot barrel with octagonal breech section (unsigned) and an unsigned octagonal 32-bore 3in. re-browned damascus pistol barrel (probably a later addition) matching period London proofs together with a percussion under-hammer squared boxlock action with guarded trigger the top-tang signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON`

Comment: I believe this Reilly air cane serial number, unlike the others, is authentic and is in the "J.C. Reilly 7000 series" which he began to use to differentiate himself from EM after they moved to 502 New Oxford Street in late March 1847 and which continued until c1858. The label is the one used from 1848-1855. I'd date the cane based on the label and SN as latter part of 1855.
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...f6-a4340134dc99




to be continued
======================================================
Xxxxx 1848-55


Comment: Classic 1848-55 label
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...c7-a78300d31617



======================================================
Xxxxx 1855-59


Comment: Label used 1855-59 with "Reilly" and the 1851 and 1855 exposition medals.
http://www.vintageairguns.co.uk/air-canes/?occur=1&album=47&photo=1748



======================================================
Xxxxx 1859 +

Name: E.M.Reilly &Co., New Oxford St.,London
Description: This is a totally complete 1850's Cane Air Gun including it's original pump and cocking key. The pump and the cane are signed "E.M.Reilly &Co., New Oxford St.,London. The cane looks to be about .36 cal. and retains it's original brass rod and cap.  It also has a front and rear sight.  The head of the cane has some wonderful scrimshaw work consisting of 3 panels . One Admiral Nelson in his full naval officers garb. The second one is a family coat of arms,which I'm told is the Prince of Wales. The third is  the battleship Victory.The head is made out of Alabaster and there's a minor chip on the top . E.M Reilly was famous for his caneguns and wrote"Treatise on Air Guns" in 1850.  The  gun works just fine . It holds it's charge when pumped up and cocks and fires . A really great and complete nautical Cane Air Gun. This outfit would fit equally well in a firearms, nautical or scrimshaw collection. Rarely seen for sale.

Comment: EM began to be used on gun ribs in 1859. Edward M. and E.M. were occasionally used on non serial numbered guns before 1859.
https://www.johnjhayeshistoricalcollectibles.com/proddetail.php?prod=e4



======================================================
Xxxxx 1859 +

Name: E.M REILLY, LONDON
Description: A 100-BORE PNEUMATIC AIR CANE 
SIGNED E.M. REILLY, LONDON, THIRD QUARTER OF THE 19TH CENTURY 
With sighted rifled brass barrel with rotating loading-drum, button-trigger and aperture for the cocking-key (key and muzzle-cap missing), signed on the case-hardened inner face at the join between the barrel and reservoir, dark horn handle, and retaining much original wood-effect painted finish throughout; together with AN 80-BORE BUTT-RESERVOIR AIR PISTOL, with turn-off two-stage barrel, scroll engraved brass action with iron 'flintlock' mechanism, and brass reservoir. The first 37ľin. (96.9cm.) long (2)
Comment: EM began to be used on Serial Numbered ribs in 1859. This may or may to apply to air guns.

Comment: The air canes sell for more than the Shotguns.
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/a-100-bore-pneumatic-air-cane-signed-em-5509870-details.aspx



======================================================
Xxxxx 1859-67

Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: A great cased air gun cane curio by E.M.Reilly of London. It comes with its own original wood case with an address label for "E. M. Reilly & Co" and there is a list of contents prepared by an earlier owner/seller. The list reads: "Reilly walking stick air rifle, about .40 brass bbl., multi-groove rifling, bore about perfect. Very powerful, complete with mold, pump, cocking key, extra valve, etc. When fully pumped up, these will shoot 20-30 shots full power, Breech loading. Weight 3 1/2 Pounds. Thumb trigger. Probably made about 1850." (A written description of air guns by Dike on page 357 of Cane Curiosa mentions E. M. Reilly of London, as a noted air gun maker and inventor. Additionally 35/6 shows a very similar cased piece by another maker.)

Comment: Classic 1859-1868 label which also was used (with variants from about 1879 to 1886). The Action house date is wrong.
https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/11244082_a-cased-air-gun-cane-curio-by-emreilly-of-london

======================================================
Xxxxx 1859 - 1867

Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: Cased .36-caliber English Cane Gun . . . circa 1849  by E.M. Reilly & Company. Until the 1800s, specialist carvers, metal workers, and artisans produced canes and walking sticks by hand. However, the popularity of fashion and gadget canes fueled a market for their mass manufacture and subsequently helped lead to their demise. Canes became less artistic and reflective of current fashions.

Comment: 1859-68 label. If the label is correct, the auction house is off by 10-15 years in their dates.
http://www.greendragonsociety.com/Weaponry/Weaponry_Main_page.asp



======================================================
Xxxxx 1859 +


Comment: Cannot read the label. The name on the cane is E.M Reilly which normally indicate it was made after 1859. The Reillys, however, did put different variants on their firearms which were not serial numbered.
https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/air-canes/e-m-reilly-air-cane/



======================================================
Xxxxx 1868 +

Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET, LONDON (502, NEW OXFORD STEET on case label)
Description: This is a rare, cased, Air Cane. Made of brass & steel it unscrews into 2 sections and when assembled measures 36" overall. The barrel section has a clean bore with crisp rifling (1cm at the muzzle approx. AA shot). The barrel section features a tiny blade foresight and 'V' notch steel rear sight.
The weapon fires moulded lead balls inserted in the barrel section at the loading port which has a small bolt feature. It is armed by means of its steel and brass air pump and fired by means of a steel winged trigger which is inserted into the underside of the rifle and twists to fire. The pump and trigger are present. The body of the pump is nicely marked by the manufacturer 'E.M. Reilly & Co, Oxford Street, London' (illustrated).

Comment: Classic 1868-72/3 label with the medals won at the 1867 Paris Universelle Exposition and the three addresses - Paris one is defaced, possibly by rubbing against a cane part?
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...1a-a5f00113573f





======================================================
Xxxxx 1868 +

Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description:

Comment: Note Paris Exhibition Medals 1867. There were three address but the Rue Scribe, Paris address has been deliberately obliterated. Somebody lost a girlfriend it looks like.…. Reilly Damascus work on the barrel?
http://www.network54.com/Forum/681456/thread/1362405040/4/A



======================================================
Xxxxx 1836-58?


And if anyone knows who bought these two canes, we'd like to see photos.
7. If the first has Joseph Reilly's name on it...it is not 1880...It has to be pre-1858 at least..and we need to see the label.
8. Ditto to the second with EM Reilly on the cane and label. Need to see photos of both.




======================================================
Xxxxx 1902-1904 +


Comment: This is the strange almost Circus-like label that is unique up to this point. It's difficult to read - but it is EM Reilly making it later than 1859. The attachable stock looks Reily-esque. (The label is now identified as 277 Oxford street and 295 Oxford Street = 1903-4; See label addendum below).
http://www.vintageairguns.co.uk/air-canes/?occur=1&album=47&photo=1425

Here are a few miscellaneous items I've found or are still working on which I'll post here for posterity or for someone who really wants to write a book on the Reilly's

========================================================================================================================================
1823 - Reilly as "Jeweler"


JC Reilly was still identified as a “Jeweler.



I assume he also was a silver plate worker but you don’t just register a mark (which he allegedly did in 1819) - you have to pass through stages of excellence in the silver world and I can’t find evidence of this. This is a work in progress; would appreciate any help in search silver mark sources for information on this part of his career. What type of “jewels” did he make? Here is the only example I’ve been able to find. Telling isn’t it. http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogues/as290616/page009.html



========================================================================================================================================
1823 - Reilly's Hunting License


- Joseph Charles Reilly of “Hampstead” (Middlesex, i.e. London) was awarded a Hunting License. (“London Morning Chronical,” 13 Sep 1823). Hampstead was still countryside but wasn’t that far from Holborn Bars. We’ve often wondered where Reilly’s 300 yard shooting range was located. It might be in Hampstead - which is a "heath" and a golf course and a park now



Now why would you need a hunting license in England in 1823? And by the way 2 guineas in 1785 was a lot of money - no wonder hunting became an upper class sport.



========================================================================================================================================
1825 - Reilly member of the London Proof House


- The book posted above provided a copper plate on members of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers (the London Proof House). The author provides the following caution:
https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.278485/2015.278485.A-History_djvu.txt

The Worshipful Company of Gunmakers was, and still is, one of the minor City Livery Companies or Guilds, but there were many makers who were simply under the legal obligation to have their weapons proved but who were not members of the Company. It is doubtful if at any time in its history the Company has represented more than a proportion of the London makers. Fairly full records of the apprenticeship and admission of gunsmiths exist but are not available for the study of the historian. Many of the City Companies have thrown open their records to research students, but in the case of this Company permission has not yet been given.

The book mentions that J.C. Reilly was a member as of 1825. If this can be confirmed it is as good a date as any as to when he became a “gun maker.”

1825-40 - Reilly, Joseph Chas. London
1832 - Reilly & Co. London
1850 - Reilly, Edward M. London
Reilly, 1882, London. Breakdown action revolvers of -450 calibre.


========================================================================================================================================
1829 - Reilly still a Jeweler and selling guns


-- An advertisement still identified J.C. Reilly as a “silverplate worker” and “gun maker.” (I've misplaced this ad...it will be posed asap).

Not the ad I'm looking for but 14 Jun 1829, Bell's sporting Life gun ad:



========================================================================================================================================
1830 - Reilly making his own guns


18 July 1830, "Bell's Life." Reilly making his own guns:



========================================================================================================================================
1831 - Reilly a Silversmith and a Jeweler


04 Jan 1831 "Morning Chronicle" - robber at Reilly - Jewelry taken...still a Jeweler or Silversmith, or both



========================================================================================================================================
1833 - Reilly, Gun Maker


Reilly identifies solely as "Gun Maker"; 07 Jul 1833, "Bell's Life"



===========================================================================================
1840 - JC Reilly becomes "Reilly": Edward Michael becomes a full partner?


As mentioned previously between the end of June 1840 and end of Aug 1840 the company's name in advertisements changed from JC Reilly or Joseph Charles Reilly to just "Reilly." Believe that this marks the entry of then 23 year old Edward Michael as a full partner in the firm:

.........21 Jun 1840, "Bell's Life"


........22 Aug 1840, "Evening Standard". (the reference to the August edition of "Sporting Magazine" refers to the Reilly poem -see below).

========================================================================================================================================
1841 - The Poetry of a Reilly


- The poem written about Reilly has often been cited. Here it is with a bit of humor - what is it with the English at this time and their love of doggerill?





========================================================================================================================================
1844 - Reilly - military inventor and contract supplicant


- Many writers have commented that the Reilly’s were not innovators and never really took out gun patents. Many have commented that the only patent was on an 1969 explosive bullet. (posted below). Well, JC Reilly sure tried to hawk a mortar and some mortar bombs in 1844. It is indicative of their business sense - they wanted to sell stuff…guns but explosives too and especially to the military for a big military contract:
https://books.google.td/books?id=YBZdAAA...ars&f=false



========================================================================================================================================
1857 - JC Reilly Swan Song -1 (see p. 20)


— Vini Vidi Vici with skull; You’ll notice the two very last surviving guns in the “7000 series” which I believe were numbers reserved for J.C. Reilly the father, 8025 and 8052, both have the inscription “Vini Vidi Vici” with a skull engraved on them. It’s a good guess that these were part of the last 50 guns he ever built and that these were his swan song: “I came, I saw, I conquered” and dust to dust, ashes to ashes. At least it makes a good (and logical) ending. (He retired totally at the end of 1858 and moved to his country house where he died in 1863; the next year the company was named E.M Reilly). (and Terry Buffum, if you have a picture of that inscription and of the rifle, we’d much like to see it for history’s sake. Thanks).

..8025 - Reilly, New Oxford St. London; 13 bore; Rifle; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader (Buffum). (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici)
..8052 - Reilly, New Oxford St., London. 20 bore. Rifle. Percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader. (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici). (8052 pictured below)





========================================================================================================================================
1855-58 - Reilly and Prince etc. - Military Contract attempts


- Prince Patent: As has been widely reported in 1855 the Prince Patent breech-loader was widely hailed as the finest of its kind. Reilly began making Prince patent guns almost immediately. In 1859 12 prominent London gunmakers tried to get Ordinance to reopen the question but were rejected (as reported in C. Blair (ed) 1983, pp. 245-6).

It is a testament to the belief in the design that in 1859, four years after it had first been rejected, a group of prominent London gun makers including Manton, Wilkinson, Samuel Nock, Parker Field, and Tatham petitioned the Board of Ordnance to reconsider their decision.
http://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/130153944059/historicalfirearms-frederick-princes

I believe Reilly had to have been amongst the 12 gunmakers making the petition. He was with Prince on several other ventures subsequently and there appears to have been some sort of business understanding amongst them and a few others, including J. Blanch. (Prince created a partnership with the Green Bros which was dissolved in 1859; then Reilly got manufacturing rights to the Green Bros breech loader and trialed in in 1864. etc.)

I cannot find the names of all the gunmakers involved but would like to confirm the hunch. Prince has been subject of a few books and articles if anyone cares to research this including the below:
Prince’s Carbines, Gun’s Review, Nov. 1971, R.J. Wilkinson-Latham

SN 10782 - dated 1858 per dating chart



========================================================================================================================================
1862 - Reilly at London exposition


- Here is Reilly’s advertisement for the 1862 London Exhibition for which he had meticulously prepared. The praise in Bradshaw’s Alphabetical handbook for Sep 1862 (below) might be for this gold Shotgun meant for India, SN 12532: (per the chart above, SN 12532 was numbered in mid 1862 - this is possible validation of the chart and of the gun as being the one in the 1862 exhibition).



https://books.google.com/books?id=mvkHAA...gun&f=false



==================================================================================================
1868 + Reilly as military innovator


— On 23 April 1869 E.M Reilly took out a patent for an explosive bullet. It’s mentioned pretty often to illustrate mostly Reilly’s paucity of gun patents. No one seems to mention his Air Cane treatise which is still being cited today. But no matter - because Reilly didn’t patent a top lever key or something, ergo he “didn’t really make guns.” This silliness aside, here are some tools for the making of those explosive bullets. It actually sounds pretty neat to me, an 1869 16 bore version of an M-79?




==================================================================================================
1868 - post 1886? Reilly Triumphs at Paris and beyond


— Paris Universelle 1867 Medals: These began to be featured on his trade labels about early 1868 when rue Scribe opened. For the most part the medals disappeared from his advertisements and trade labels not long after the fall of the 2nd Empire - 1871-2? However, they did reappear from time to time per below - rare - but there are four examples;. Therefore one cannot date with absolute certainty a case label based only on the presence or absence of the medals. ** Notice that some list "Gun & Rifle Manufacturer" and others just the traditional "Gun Manufacturer."







==================================================================================================
1870 - Reilly loves France and the Franco-Prussian War


Reilly's affinities for France were well known in UK. He was prosecuted Fall 1870 for trying to send cartridges to his shop in Paris, violating the UK Neutrality. Here is one of several newspaper articles and a letter which ends by imply that Reilly couldn't help himself..he had to do it:

London Daily News 06 October 1870


Pall Mall Gazette, 06 October 1870


==================================================================================================
1898-1903 - Reilly Presentation Case/Trade labels


— On the Reilly trade label post above, two presentation cases for “EM Reilly, Gun and Rifle Maker, 277 Oxford street” were posted. The departure from “Gun and Rifle Manufacturer” used from 1876 into the 1890’s in Reilly ads (the labels often kept "gun manufacturer though after 1884, not consistently) is so interesting that I suspect these trade labels were used after 1898 after the closure of 16 Oxford Street and up to 1903 when they moved to 295 Oxford Street. Normally I could confirm this suspicion by advertisements. However, It’s strange - I’ve collected at least 500 Reilly advertisements from 1829 to 1898 (and could easily have another 2000). However, Reilly magazine, travel guide, calendar and newspaper advertisements seem to progressively disappear over the 1890’s and I can find none after 1898. Maybe I need to search in some different ways.

Actually this is not a certainty though…sometime in the 1850’s being a “Gun Maker” wasn’t good enough so the whole trade became “Gun Manufacturers” - Reilly changing in 1859. Then the English gun trade suddenly decided that being a “Gun Manufacturer” wasn’t cool enough and so they came up with “Gun & Rifle Manufacturers” about 1876. Then Purdey sort of stuck with “Gun & Rifle Makers”…and everybody kind of flocked back; so maybe it’s just a herd mentality - sort of like Iranian politics - and has nothing to do with the change of address in 1898.



EDIT: Well, the two "how to do-it" labels on the second case sure look like the ones posted below with 295 Oxford Street address...right down to the slanted overwriting on the second label - so I think it can safely be predicted that these two ornamental cases are in fact 1898-1903

==================================================================================================
1902 - H.H. (Bert) Reilly and the Gunmakers Association


— Here is the notice for the 1902 meeting of the British Gunmakers Association annual meeting. There are some powerful names here: Greener, Blanch, and of the people who didn’t show up H.W. Holland, etc. etc…and H.H. Reilly, EM’s son who apparently ran the business at the age of 16?? (with help from brother? mother?) from the time of EM’s death in 1890. Well, the interesting thing, besides the fact that HH didn’t attend, is the existence of “The Gunmmakers’ Association” at all. I’ve tried to research UK gunmakers associations and when and where they came into existence without much success. But. It’s an interesting topic —- what did they discuss? Who were members? How long did it exist? What organizations were predecessors? The minutes of the meetings have to be somewhere. There’s a lot of history there.

There are a lot of bits and pieces to add which may help a historian, but for now the Case Label post above needs to be expanded:

==================================================================================================
1903-04 + Reilly trade/case label - the "four medal" label redoux


This Air Cane label was mentioned in the the above post on trade labels:



Here is a closer view of a similar label. It has 277 with a strike out and 295 printed above. Reilly left 277 in 1903, where they'd been for 44 years, because the "building was being renovated" and moved to 295. Don't know whether this label was for all their guns or specialty pieces only. It uses "Gun Manufacturers" (not "Gun & Rifle Manufactures/Makers"):



I've tried to identify the medals on the label.



-- Top left probably is 1876 Philadelphia Centinennal;.



-- Top right likely is 1878 Paris



-- The bottom left will be the 1885 International Inventions Exposition in London;



The bearded guy with the recessive chin should be identifiable - can't find it (It's not Edward VII). (edit: It looks a lot like Franz Joseph, emperor of Austria-Hungary; There was an International Exposition in Vienna in 1873..and the medals look similar. This cannot be confirmed...a close look at a clear picture will settle this. (and unlike Paris, London, Calcutta, Philadelphia there's no record of Reilly at Vienna, though strangely there are late 1800's Reilly's in Slovakia..). Edit: Confirmed: The last set of medals are for Vienna, 1873
https://info71508.wixsite.com/perrinsgunmaker/erik-nikmon



The presence of these medals 1873, 1876, 1878, 1885 on a 1903 label shows how Reilly had declined after the death of EM in 1890. (It also shows he may not have won a medal at the Paris Universelle in 1889). He prepared for these world fairs - he advertised, networked, promoted. The same cannot be said for his sons evidently.


==================================================================================================
1903-1911 + - Reilly practical instruction label for 295


Here are a couple of "how-to-do-it" labels from a case dating from 295 Oxford Street days (possibly from 1911. (The Reilly's left 295 on June 8, 1912). These labels look so similar to the two (very unclear) labels pasted on the above 277 Oxford Street presentation case (right down to the slanted overprint warnings), that I think they date those two presentation cases to 1898-1903:






And by the way, that number on the label "26.210.11" is giving problems. Is that a tiny "1" in front of the "2"? Is the serial number of this gun 126,210..a 12 bore made in 1911? Hummmm....scratch head..stroke beard (if I had a beard). If so...then H.H. Reilly added a "1" in front of his Serial number chronology before selling the name to Charles Riggs in 1917 (Riggs' catalog trumpeting of the Reilly name for his wares and his use of six digit serial numbers has already been discussed). - And H.H. Reilly seems to have started a whole new number series.....beginning where? 125,000? Per the previous label he's now advertising magazine guns...but what has happened to all the guns he sold during this period 1903-1911? There's nothing out there left to find compared to the 19th Century. Were they all crunched up in the British post WWII gun pogrom? Mystery to be investigated.... (now where is Holmes when we need him?). (edit: Or was he just repairing, updating 26,210, which would have been numbered about 1884?)

Add: Here are the powders, Amberite or Schultze, that Reilly recommended for reloading per the label above:

=================================================== 1840-1912========================================
Reilly markets gun stuff


And Reilly did market everything related to guns. Eley cartridges with his name on it have been found in an archeological dig at a French settlement in Canada. Here are reloading tools for the above labels:
http://www.finesportingcollectablesltd.co.uk/tools.htm



==================================================================================================
1903-1912 - 295 Oxford Street


From the texts of a couple of period pieces, I'm pretty sure Reilly rented the entire building at 502 (16) Oxford Street in 1847 and the building and area behind the building at 315 (277) as well in 1859. In 1890, the year of Edward M.'s death, there was a nasty lawsuit at 277, whereby someone tried to use the fact that they had an easement to close access to the property behind it....i.e., probably Reilly's old shooting gallery.

When EM Reilly & Co. (Run by sons Charles Arthur Farquhar Reilly (b1870) & Herbert Horace (Bert)) was forced to move out of 277 in 1903, they went a few blocks down the street to 295. They were there for 9 years. I think Reilly only numbered about 250 guns in these 9 years...say 30 a year (first extant Reilly with 295 on the rib is 35422; last one I've found is 35678). The census showed that Bert and Charles "gunmakers" lived in the building. Thus if this building existed as is in 1903, then I'd imagine he only had the first couple of floors rented, with the shop on the ground floor and a few boring, engraving machines and lathes in the back - they were still building guns during that period. The current store front area exhibited here:



==================================================================================================
1912 - Bankruptcy


Here is the final story - not the final one because 5 years after the fall of the House of Reilly, his son sold the name to a small time carney barker named Charles Riggs. (Did this happen in 1917? I don't know - but that's what the "internet" says; But then the "internet" also has a Riggs catalog supposedly dated 1924 that trumpets his new-found Reilly line "From now on our guns will be labeled 'Reilly' " - see Riggs commentary above; so one date 1917 or the other 1924 is wrong). Anyway this will also correct a widely reported mis-fact:

In the history of Reilly on Page one, I posted the following: "In 1912 E M Reilly & Co Ltd was recorded at 13 High Street, Marylebone. The directors of this limited company were H Reilly and "C W Roberts." I've attempted to establish the identity of CW Roberts...no success so far. Welcome additional information."

All this business about Roberts and a shop at Marylebone of course came off the internet - I'm as subject to swollowing mis-information as anyone...it's so easy; just copy what everybody else has written.

Well turns out EM Reilly located at 295 Oxford Street declared bankruptcy on June 8, 1912. G. Watkinson Roberts ("G" for George) was the liquidator; Reilly's son HH was the protagonist. I believe "C.W. Roberts" above to be in fact GW Roberts." This was a prominent law/accounting firm specializing in bankruptcies. Reilly no longer existed after June 8, 1912. I am even now questioning whether Reilly ever had a "gun maker's" shop at 13 High Street, Marylebone. if so it might have been a repair or alteration shop but it also might be the address of one of Robert's subsidiary law offices. In other words it is unlikely that anyone is going to find a Reilly gun with Marylebone on the rib or that address on a Trade label or even in an advertisement (I certainly haven't after two years of looking). I'd be happy to eat my words if anyone can prove this to the contrary.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28618/page/4328/data.pdf



As an aside, Robert's son was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross for service on the submarine "Thresher" in the Mediterranean in WWII. His brother was killed in 1941.
http://www.hambo.org/kingscanterbury/view_man.php?id=272

==================================================================================================
1912-1918 + - 13 High Street, Marlybone


Here is the address today. Certainly a tiny little shop. A small gun repair facility, work benches, some gun racks could have occupied the place and from appearance more likely than a lawyer-accountant's office. But if so, quite a come-down for Reilly.



"The majority of the buildings in the street today date from 1900, since which point the street has been consistently revitalised by the main local landlord, Howard de Walden Estates, which has been credited with turning a "once-shabby area of central London" into an elegant street which carefully manages its "mix of boutiques and small retailers".[5] Property prices in the area have soared in recent years.[6]"
==================================================================================================
1890 + Oxford Street


I was looking for period photos of the Reilly buildings in London. I'm sure they're out there somewhere. But here are a few photos of Oxford Street which will illustrated the times they lived and worked in:

1) 1890: There is a 154 on a building on the left and the Princess's Theodora Theater - and though both are gone, the neighboring building windows look to match this modern google photo taken from the current 154 Oxford Street address - see the windows above the "footwear sign";

(And by the way, I remember those type of awnings over the central square in my small town in Florida in the 1950's where I grew up before a/c; And to go downtown, we had to put on long pants. In this era-1890's, if you didn't wear a tie, you were a ditch-digger. No flip flops). --- (and there was an amazing problem of horse dung at the time...so much so some predicted a climate disaster.)

Note: Oxford Street runs pretty much east-west. Awnings are out on the North side of the street (sun at this latitude will be in the south - shadow's are oriented north pretty true north (i.e. around 12 noon)(shadows are short so probably summer time) - so the photo was taken facing east down Oxford Street - i.e. numbers would be declining towards 16 which would be almost at the end of the street on the left.....277 and 295 (and Regents Circus) would be behind the photo. Welcome orientation from the Londoners here:



From google - Summer time (short sleeves); Shadows are long and slanting towards the east - probably about 5:00 PM. 16 Oxford St. would have been across the street from that tall financial business tower in the distance.



Likewise on this view: Again awnings are on the North side of the street. The photo is taken from 358 (see below) facing east. 295 Oxford Street and 277 Oxford Street would lie down the street on the right side - 295 being about three streets down...277 further along: reasoning: There is a slight bend in the road to the right in the photo ; the only possibility I can see from a google map is a fade to the right just after Regent's Circus...Reilly 277 and 295 would have been on the right before the bend. The 2nd empire style turret on the right would be a block before 295. 16 would be out of sight far in the distance. Again, Londoners need to chime in.



Here's an explanation of from where the photo was taken:
358-New Oxford Street 1903
The building on the far left was replaced by a Burton menswear store, which still stands today. All the other buildings on the left side of the street were demolished, probably some time in the late 1920's or early 1930's. The second block on the left went on to house Imhof's record shop, now a Starbucks coffee house - see the next picture in this set. The bank building on the far right remained here up until the early 1960's, when it was demolished to make way for Centre Point.


And here is the old 1903 EH Evans department store which was located at 318 Oxford (though I can't pin down the address...they were busy acquiring a whole city block including 296...near to Reilly's 295 (to which they'd just "removed" from 277) one supposes - though you never know with European addresses):
-- Awnings on the right which would be north side of the street. The photo was taken facing west...295 would be across the street and in the block just behind the viewer; 277 be further behind the viewer. Can any Londoner identify that prominent building on the south side of Oxford Street with the spires? It's long gone now.



Here is that view today though from across the street; House of Fraser is EH Evans. Lots of good looking buildings gone. That Fraser department store front was built in 1910-12. 295 would be one block further on behind the photo.



I guess photographs have a power of reality...and to compare where the Reilly's were in 1860 with their buildings and business...and see that little hole his son wound up in in 1912 is pretty evocative...It's also a lesson in the smear campaign run against Damascus barrels at the time...and maybe the result of an early "Amazon.com" phenomenon...the destruction of the artisan by the steel barrel mass-productionists.

================================================================
1898-1903 - 35186 (1901) - gun and case with labels


I continue to collect Reilly SN's and will shortly repost the SN dating chart with an additional 15 numbers on it. - there are no surprises - the chart looks solid at this point. But this gun 35186, with antique case, just sold in UK for Ł120. It's interesting for two reasons. The SN is firmly in the date group 1898 -1903 after Reilly closed 16 Oxford Street but before its move to 295. And its label, identical to the above "carnival labels" with 277 and 295 on them, leads one to believe that this was indeed the Reilly label for post 1898 Reilly guns (if they weren't in presentation cases).

Note the warning and "how to reload" labels in the left side of the case lid. Barrels are steel; engraving next to nonexistent and poorly executed; the name on the receiver poorly engraved. $180. The auction house missed by a mile - that case may not be the original case but it is absolutely contemporary with the gun and probably came with the gun. I'm wondering if the indifferent engraving might be symptomatic of a decline in quality at Reilly during this time? (It is only one gun of course)

I've never mastered reading UK proof marks; Looks there are London proof marks for 1896-1904. ... and Birmingham proof marks post 1954 (re-proof)? Can anyone tell me the date the barrels were proofed? (edit: Lagopus and Larry identified the Birmingham re-proof date as 1972.)

================================================================
35186
http://www.bigwoodauctioneers.com/s/pictorialSale/5270/500/SHOOTING
E.M. REILLY & CO. of 277 Oxford Street, London A BOXLOCK 12 BORE SIDE BY SIDE NON-EJECTOR SHOTGUN, no.35186, with vacant escutcheon, circa 1920s, in earlier original leather case with makers label and early breach loading instructions and two piece ebonised cleaning rod (Shotgun Cert. required)
Ł120







Photobucket held all photos on this line and every other one for ransom about a year ago; then postimages.org went belly up and started deleting photos. With Dave's help in unlocking the posts, the original photos pretty much were all reposted here...then photo bucket, decided to unlock my account and magically stolen photos reappeared everywhere. Is this that "rapture" thingy I've been hearing about?

I still don't trust either site and especially photobuccket. As a test, can other posters now see the photos on this line or is this fixed just for my benefit?
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...2986#Post452986
Photos are visible
Here ae my estimates of the dates of Reilly SN's guns. There are anomalies:

1). I chose 1825 as a start date and gun SN "1". Both assumptions are not proven. Allegedly Reilly was a member of the London Proof House in 1825, the reason for choosing this date. The earliest gun SN found is 169. Thus the reasoning.

2) I estimated the number of SN'd guns produced between marker dates and tried to make increases logical. That's also is not hard and fast data but subjective reasoning. For instance after the 1855 Paris Universelle, he was "overdone by orders" but I've only shown an increase in gun production of about 20.

3). I had a problem in the 1859-67 era, where, if we were to accept 13333 as having been made in early 1862 it would have meant he produced 600 guns from 1859-62, but 360 62-67, so I used the average for the whole period.

4) I assumed the decline of Reilly was pretty sharp beginning in the mid 1890's - it of course could have been later but without analysis of proof marks from a number of guns SN's 32000-35000 is impossible to say objectively; the marking of this decline is therefore subjective based on lack of ads and closing of 16 Oxford St. in 1898. Reilly targeted a specific sector of the market for his bespoke serial numbered guns - low price, quality hand-made wares, rapidly delivered; as the factories went towards mass production and steel barrels, and you could walk into a sporting gun shop and buy factory made guns off the rack, his business model just couldn't hold up.

The reasoning and research behind these numbers and a chart of history, names on gun ribs, case/trade labels, etc. will be a separate post below.

This chart of course cannot be definitive; but enough checks have come in to show that it will get a Reilly owner close to the date his gun was Serial Numbered.
EDIT: Chart has been superseded by new data...see page 17.
I have an E.M. Reilly 8 gauge with jones underlever serial number 14983 that has the oxford address and Paris address which is earlier than the seial numbers you list. I hope this helps
That is a huge help.....it takes the first known Paris address on a rib back 287 numbers from 15270 - to 14483. Could you please post a photo of the gun and rib? I'll modify the above list. And this is what is badly needed - Reilly owners providing new information from their guns - there are at least 40 which have been auctioned in the last few years where the SN or addresses on the ribs were not mentioned. (I keep all ads and photos from the ads of Reilly's for reference). Since the first known advertisement mentioning 2 rue Scribe that I've found is Feb 12, 1868, you can be pretty sure your gun was serial numbered in that month (unless/until earlier ones show up.
===========================================================================================
1885 - Reilly last guns at rue Scribe


And by the way the last gun with rue Scribe on the rib I've found is 27340 (and I've not seen the actual photos).
============================================================
27340. (No photos)
E.M. REILLY &. Co.- Oxford Street LONDON & Rue Scribe - PARIS.: Hammergun Side by Side, 12 bore,gun number 27340 London proof mark.Price Euro 1.850. Both guns have damas barrel, owner say in good condition auctioned at www.czernys.com/ in 2005
https://www.internetgunclub.com/~inte8406/archived-forum/posts.php?topicid=288



Terry Buffum mentioned he had a couple of guns 27570 and 27854 which had "Paris" on their ribs (he said 27854 address was unclear). This also will change the chronology significantly if true but I hesitate to start moving things around until I can see the ribs..And there were a few intervening SN's without rue Scribe...There's a lot of "internet legend" around (although Terry can be counted on).
============================================================
27854. (no photos of rib)
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/110/133.php
serial #27854, 12 ga., 30" barrels with bright excellent bores choked full and full. This shotgun is built on a W. & C. Scott crystal indicator action with side clips and with each lock being engraved "E.M. REILLY & CO. / LONDON". The markings on the tops of the barrel are difficult to read but appear to be the E.M. Reilly & Company name and London address on the left barrel and a Paris address on the right barrel. The shotgun was part of a set and is numbered "2" in gold on dolls head rib extension and engraved on interior forend metal. The barrels are Birmingham nitro proofed for 2 3/4" shells with 1 1/16 oz. loads. The minimum wall thickness is generally .0245 with one small area that gets to .023. The action and locks show near full coverage tight English scroll engraving with a nice round flower panel on top of action. The barrels retain about 95% evenly thinning restored blue finish overall. The action and locks show an even gray patina and remain very smooth and free of pitting. The checkered straight grip walnut buttstock and splinter forend rate very good plus as refinished long ago. The gun features a 14 5/8" length of pull over checkered butt and shows drops of 1 1/2" and 2 3/8". The gun locks up tight and points beautifully. A neat crystal indicator sidelever Reilly Ejectorgun. (17147-176) {C&R} [Terry Buffum Collection]


And the reason I'm having a problem moving 27854 and its Paris address to 1886 is this label on my case. It is hand numbered 26584 and then is hand dated 1886 in the lower right corner. Of course the barrels could have been serial numbered in xxxx date and it later was sold in 1886. But accepting that 27854 had a Paris address would move the serial numbering of 26584 back to 1884 or so..... Reilly prided himself on rapid delivery of bespoke guns...this gun then would have sat on his racks for 2 years or so until sold.

I'm twisting and turning.

14983
E.M. Reilly 8 gauge
with Oxford and Paris address

[img:center]http://[/img]









Many thanks 12bore, I'll be working on modifying the chronology: Here are the extant serial numbered guns ranging from about 13700 to 15700 surrounding the opening of Rue Scribe; several extant guns numbered after 12bore's 14983 had only the London address; only three in this group had the Paris address; this was normal throughout the existence of rue Scribe.

13688 - E.M Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 20 bore; Shotgun SxS. underlever hammer gun.
14115 - E.M. Reilly (nothing further - no photos, etc). Shotgun SxS; Center break, Jones under leaver, hammer gun.
14580 - E.M. Reilly & Co. London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS; Percussion hammergun, Muzzle loader.
14983 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxfort Street, London & 2 rue Scribe, Paris; 8 bore. Shotgun SxS; underlever Hammer gun. (First known rue Scribe, Paris address)
14985 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 16 ga. Shotgun SxS; Sidelock, underlever hammer gun, (Buffum).
15129 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 Oxford St. London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS; pinfire, hammer gun, muzzle loader.
15143 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 Oxford St. London, 12ga. Shotgun SxS; underlever, hammergun.
15239 - E.M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford St., London. .577. Rifle, Snider-Enfield 2-band; Birmingham proof.
15270 - E.M. Reilly and Company Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris. .577. Rifle SxS; Underlever. BPE. Non-rebounding hammers.
15262 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street. London. 12ga. Rifle SxS. Black Powder proof for 13 bore.
15283 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS; Jones under lever. Buffum.
15287 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS'. Under lever, hammer gun. Buffum
15346 - E.M. Reilly (no further info). 12ga. Shotgun SxS; Under lever, hammer gun.
15531 - “Reilly & Co." (no rib name, address mentioned; no photos). .50cal. Rifle Single barrel. Enfield type. Hammer gun. Muzzle loader. Buffum .
15625 - E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London, 2 Rue Scribe Paris. 4bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever. Orig pinfire conv-to centerfire.

You have my gun 14983 listed as a 12 gauge it is an 8 gauge!
And here are the existing guns from about SN 25500 to 28000 surrounding the closing of rue Scribe in 1886. You'll see that Terry Buffum owned several of these. Some were rebarrelled. However, he might be able to clarify some of the questions about the names on the ribs per below. If anyone has these guns or knows of others in this chronological period, it would help if we could see the ribs: I'll factor this into the master chronology in a couple of weeks.

25572 - E.M. Reilly, 16 New Oxford Street, London and Paris. ,450BPE. Rifle SxS. Underlever Hammer gun. “To Their Majesties Kings of Spain and Portugal.:
25711 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 New Oxford St. London. 8bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever hammer gun.
26218 - No address mentioned. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. BLNE.
26517 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (re-barreled - Chas Smith & Sons) 20bore Shotgun SxS. Under lever Hammer gun. Buffum
26537 - No address mentioned. 20ga. Shotgun SxS. Under lever hammer gun (Buffum)
26554 - E.M. Reilly (Address not mentioned). .45 BPE. Double Rifle. Underlever hammer gun. Steel barrels.
26557 - No rib address; left barrel E M Reilly Gun And Rifle Manufactures, 20ga. SxS. Under lever hammer gun; (Buffum) (HWK's gun now)
26584 - E.M. Reilly, New Oxford Street and Rue Scribe Paris. Unknown cal. Case label with SN and 1886 date.
26718 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .380 cal. Rifle Black Powder.
26733 - E.M. Reilly (no full address mentioned). 8 bore. Rifle SxS. Crystal indicator, rifled barrel. hammerless.
26957 - E. M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford St., London. 8 bore. Rifle Single. Underlever, hammer gun.
27254 - Unknown…unknown (question asked of a gun question site)
27340 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Hammer gun. (no photos of the rib)
27377 - E.M. Reilly & Co, 277 Oxford Street, London. 12ga, Shotgun SxS. 3 barrel set, one steel. Crystal indicator (Buffum).
27515 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). Rook Rifle converted to .410.
27570 - E.M. Reilly, Oxford Street, London & Paris. 16ga. Shotgun SxS. BLNE (Buffum).
27687 - E.M. Reilly & Co.(address not mentioned). 20bore. Shotgun SxS. Underlever hammergun. (rifle conversion).
27750 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London. Xxxx. SxS. Whitworth steel barrels.
27847 - Name Not mentioned. .450 BPE. Rifle SxS. Under lever, ejectors, rebounding hammer gun.
27854 - E.M. Reilly & Co+ (London address and a Paris address)(unclear). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Side lever, hammer gun. (Buffum) (no rib photos)
27894 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. Top lever hammer gun.
2804x? - Name Not mentioned. .410. Rifle/shotgun single. Converted from rifle. Steel barrel. Top lever hammer gun.
I'll change it, thanks..got confused by your screen name....

12boreman's 14983 is now the 1st rue Scribe SN'd gun (Feb 1868); If Terry's 17854 is the last (Sep? 1886)..it pushes average yearly production of Reilly serial numbered guns to around 705 per year (as opposed to the current estimate of about 660)- almost 60 per month. In 1880 Purdey and Holland and Holland had less than a third as many SN'd gun sales.

Saint Etienne gunmakers at the turn of the century noted a drop off in sales in December to June and diversified into bicycles. Reilly though sold to "gentlemen" going abroad who needed a gun quickly, and all calibers not just shotguns. Here's an interesting example:



12boreman, what in the world are those hammers? I'm a bit new but I don't understand how the thing works?

This is a very rare mechanism. The hammers are flat nose or noseless. The strikers are retractable with the cocking of the hammers. This gun could be considered a "false hammerless" design. The firing pins are connected internally to the cocking rods on the exterior of the action, which are in turn connected to slots via the anterior portion of the hammers. Very ingenious and another way to invent the mousetrap!
Cocking indicators...Geo
EDIT: This chart doesn't work....there's another marker that I didn't account for, Nov 1881 when the numbering of Oxford St. changed. 1st SN with 277 or 16 was 23816. I can't make that number fit into Nov 1881 very easily without skyrocketing the number of Reilly's built in the following 5 years. I've sent Terry a message ask about 27854 and 27570 and how confident he is in a Paris address being on either rib or barrel. The chart will be edited asap.

Here are the latest estimates of the dates of Reilly SN's guns taking into account 12boreman's 14983 rue Scribe rib and Terry Buffum's 27854 with "a Paris address" (I haven't seen 27854's rib photos; Terry is pretty meticulous about his guns so we'll assume this is the new end-number for rue Scribe). To repeat the above caveats: there are assumptions:

1). 1825 was chosen as a start date and gun SN "1". Both assumptions are not proven. Allegedly Reilly became a member of the London Proof House in 1825, the reason for choosing this date. The earliest gun SN found is 162. Thus the reasoning for starting at "1".

2) The number of SN'd guns produced between marker dates was estimated and an effort was made to make increases logical. That's also is not hard and fast data but subjective reasoning. For instance after the 1855 Paris Universelle, he was "overdone by orders" but I've only shown an increase in gun production of about 20.

3). I had a problem in the 1859-67 era, where, if we were to accept 13333 as having been made in early 1862 it would have meant he produced 600 guns from 1859-62, but 360 62-67, so I used the average for the whole period and smoothed it out so that there was not sudden jumps in production. (This turned out to be correct; 13333 was made in circa May 1864 when Reilly had the manufacturing rights to Green.)

4) I assumed the decline of Reilly was pretty sharp beginning in the mid 1890's - it of course could have been earlier or later but without analysis of proof marks from a number of guns SN's 32000-35000 is impossible to say objectively; the marking of this decline is therefore subjective based on lack of ads and closing of 16 Oxford St. in 1898. (I assumed 16 Oxford, the larger building, was their largest finishing facility; 277 had the shooting gallery. Without enough orders to keep both open, closing 16 would seem logical).

Again, Reilly targeted a specific sector of the market for his bespoke serial numbered guns - low price, quality hand-made wares, rapidly delivered; as the factories went towards mass production and steel barrels, and you could walk into a sporting gun shop and buy factory made guns off the rack, his business model just couldn't hold up.

The reasoning and research behind these numbers and a chart of history, names on gun ribs, case/trade labels, etc. will be a separate post below.

This chart of course cannot be definitive; but enough checks have come in to show that it will get a Reilly owner close to the date his gun was Serial Numbered.

(DELETED - See below for latest)
Chart is out of date....see p. 33.
This is out of date: Latest version is p. 33

There are a lot of erroneous Reilly history-summaries published by auction houses and on double-gun historical sites. I can't really fault the inaccuracies on lack of historical scholarship because there was just so little information available in the 1990's early 2000's when Brown published his book on English gun-makers with incomplete information and others then copied the published research in magazine articles or on the internet. These became the references that others quoted. It led to bad information being verified by "circular reporting."

So, here is an updated short history of Reilly which can be used from now on and hits the most relevant high-points. Admittedly there may be some inaccuracies; research will continue; more guns will appear. Where there are questions, I've used best guesses but fudged by using conditionals ("about," "circa," "probably," etc.). Trust me though - these are pretty good guesses. This will provide the essence of Reilly's history as gun-makers. The convoluted story of the family has been largely left out - it'll be addressed later. A complete historical justification of the below will be a separate (and last) post - most of it has already been mentioned in previous posts on this line.

====================== A New, Short History of Reilly of London, Gun Maker =======================

Joseph Charles Reilly was born in Ireland in 1786. He hailed from a well-to-do family and aspired to become a lawyer. In the mid-1800's he went to London to study; However, instead of law school, in 1814 he opened a jewelry shop, later described as also dealing in silver-plate, at 12 Middle Row, Holborn hard by the inns of the court where his clientele included country gentlemen and barristers. In 1817 his son Edward Michael was born, the third of four children. He prospered, buying a country estate in Bedfordshire in 1824.

Jewelry shops in London at the time often dealt in guns, engraving them and re-selling them. By 1825 he was a member of the Worshipful Company of Gun Makers (the London Proof House) and around this time numbered his first Reilly built gun which presumably was 001. (The oldest extant Reilly is SN 162). His guns during this period often displayed the address “Holborn Bars.” The serial number guns included pistols, rifles and shotguns.

JC Reilly early on adopted a business model which did not change for 80 years: i.e. provide a quality hand-made product for a moderate price and deliver it rapidly. With this model he undercut more expensive and better known makers and made his profit on volume.

Reilly dealt in used guns taken on trade and sold guns under license. However he did not serial number guns he did not build and he numbered his guns consecutively for 90 years with certain exceptions during the move to New Oxford Street in 1847. Reilly had extensive finishing facilities in his large London buildings and may have stockpiled actions and barrels imported in the white from Birmingham to allow him to meet orders three times as quickly as his competitors.

By 1833 all references to “jeweler” or "silver-plate" vanished from his advertisements and from that time forward he identified himself solely as “Gun-Maker.”

In August 1835 JC Reilly with EM as an apprentice moved to 316 High Holborn Street. The first serial numbered extant gun with the High Holborn address is SN 1024. By circa 1837 pistols were no longer numbered in the Reilly chronological numbering system; His serial numbered guns seemed to be limited to bespoke long-guns made to order.

In August 1840 the firm’s name in advertisements changed from J.C. Reilly to just “Reilly” which may mark the advent of 23 year old EM as a full partner in the company. The names on the gun ribs continued to be “J.C. Reilly" or "Joseph Charles Reilly.” Case/Trade labels were styled like an embossed business card with "Joseph Charles Reilly," "Gun Maker," and the High Holborn address.

JC Reilly during this period also became known for his air cane guns. Young EM was billed as the expert and was so mentioned In advertisements, identified as “Reilly Junr." In 1847 or early 1848 EM wrote a widely disseminated pamphlet on air guns (mostly an advertising brochure highlighting the company's ability to produce all sorts of air-guns and parts) which is cited to this day. The pamphlet title page noted the author was "Reilly junr," used the 502 New Oxford Street address and included "removed from Holborn.".

In March 1847 Reilly moved to 502 New Oxford street, a large building In the "Elizabethean" area. The last extant guns with High Holborn on the ribs are 3392 and 3402. At this point the main serial number chronology for Reilly long-guns was jumped up 5000 numbers to begin anew at 8400 probably with production supervised by EM Reilly. The name on the gun ribs was “Reilly.” (And with this move, Reilly demonstrated another trait of his business acumen, i.e. "Location, Location, Location." He always chose prestigious, high-traffic locations for his stores.)

The first extant SN’d gun with "Reilly," and 502 New Oxford Street on the rib is SN 8463; the label notes the firm had “removed from Holborn." (There is a SN 8578 with J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street on the rib with an apparently original case label with Joseph Charles Reilly, the Oxford St. address and "removed from holborn," possibly one of the last such guns in the new 8400 series.)

Soon after the move, the trade label changed to the name "Reilly, Gun Maker" and featured a sketch of the estimated 20,000 sq foot building at 502 New Oxford Street. Note: From 1848-1859 long guns and hand guns can be found with “Edward M.” Or “Edward Michael” on their ribs; these, however, were not built by Reilly - they were only engraved and marketed.

Around the time of this move and the change in the main serial number chronology, J.C. Reilly appears to have kept a series of numbers for himself beginning at SN 7000 and ending around 8100 when he retired in 1857. JC Reilly often (but not always) put his full name on the ribs of these serial numbers per his 27+ year tradition but with the 502 New Oxford Street address; yet the trade/case labels with "Reilly" as the firm's name and the advertisements/publicity remained the same for both number series.

The first extant SN’d gun in the JC “7000” series is 7201 (a SN 7021 exists but with the High Holborn address possibly indicating the Reillys split their numbering system a bit before the move to 502 New Oxford Street); the last (no doubt made in 1857) is 8052. There is one outlier 3514, with "Reilly" and the New Oxford Street address on the rib, apparently made (per the trade label in the case) after 1855, a number which harkens back to High Holborn, illustrating the sometime quirkiness of JC Reilly.

Reilly exhibited at the 1851 Crystal Palace International Exposition (as Edward M. Reilly) were he was much taken by the Casimir Lefaucheaux center-break guns. Reilly, Lang and Blanch became the major advocates for these new types of guns in England. Advertisements show that Reilly had a 300 yard shooting range somewhere near his London establishment (possibly at JC's estate in Bedfordshire).

Reilly also exhibited at the 1855 Paris Universelle Exposition, where he received much acclaim and "many orders were booked." The exhibit was in the name of E.M Reilly; however, advertisements make clear that though EM won the medals, the firm was still "Reilly, Gun Maker." Reilly case labels changed after 1855 to illustrate the 1851 and 1855 medals and to highlight “Fusils a Bascule” (French for center-break guns) and other breech loaders (such as Prince Patent guns which he marketed and promoted).

In September 1857 JC Reilly retired to his country estates at Bourn End, Cranfield, Bedfordshire, where he died a wealthy man in January 1864; his last guns in the "7000" series were engraved with Caesar's words "Veni, Vidi, Vici" possibly as his swan song story of his life. "Formerly Gun-Marker, London" is chiseled on his tombstone.

In January 1859 with new partners (unknown) he opened a branch store in a large building at 315 Oxford Street (early on also referred to as "the Armoury House" - (Salvation Army hall was located behind the building) which had a 50 yard shooting gallery.

Later that year around September 1859 the company’s name was changed to E.M. Reilly & Co, a name which continued in use until bankruptcy in 1912. His labels changed to reflect the new name, "E.M. Reilly, Gun Maker." The first extant serial numbered gun with E.M. Reilly on the rib is SN 11115.

A year later In circa August 1860 the company description on labels and in advertisements was changed from “Gun Makers” to “Gun Manufacturers” and probably at that time hthe sketch of 502 New Oxford Street was dropped from his case labels.

In 1862 Reilly showed at the London International exposition and won a medal for an exhibit which included a gold washed 12 bore shotgun which may still exist (SN 12532).

From at least the 1840’s the Reilly’s tried mightily to win a lucrative military contract from the British government. JC Reilly exhibited brass mortars in 1845. EM Reilly promoted the Prince patent breech loader in the late 1850’s. He worked with the Green brothers to win a contract for their patent breech loader, to which he had manufacturing rights, in the early 1860’s (competing against the Snider which won out). He put forward the Comblain breech loader from Belgium, to which he gained patent rights in England, in 1868-70 (competing against trial guns such as the Martini and the Henry, a combination of which was adopted). And, he patented an explosive bullet in 1869, a sort of early M-79 idea. However, he failed to obtain a government contract.

Reilly did sell and engrave British military guns - Enfields, Snider's, Martini's and later Lee-Speeds; He hawked these guns to the Volunteer Militia at wholesale prices, versions of them to Military personnel going abroad and to big-game hunters for 50 years. But, unless he built them himself he did not serial number these guns.

EM Reilly always seemed to be enamored with Paris and as the 1867 Paris Universelle exposition approached, he meticulously prepared an exhibit that was extensively lauded. It won him gold and silver medals, led him to became a “gun maker” for Napoleon III, and in February 1868 to open a branch office (EM Reilly & Cie.) at 2 rue Scribe, Paris where orders for his guns could be taken. This branch office remained open for the next 17 years. The first extant gun with 2 rue Scribe on the rib is 14983.

His case labels changed at this time to feature the two medals won at the 1867 World’s Fair and often (but not always) mentioned both branch addresses. Two and a half years later after the battle of Sedan Napoleon III fell from power; the medals disappeared from Reilly’s case labels yet continued occasionally to resurface on both labels and in advertisements for the next 15 years. (Reilly attempted to sell 6,000 Chassepot rifles to the new French Republic and was also prosecuted for attempting to smuggle 2,000 shells to his rue Scribe Address in Fall 1870, a violation of UK neutrality in the conflict).

In 1876 Reilly labels and publicity began advertising a connection to the King of Portugal and by 1882 to the Kings of Spain and The Netherlands. Also around 1876 he changed the description of the company in ads to "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" (as did many other English gun makers). This description was sometimes but not always used on his trade/case labels for the next 15 years.

In addition from as early as 1868 Reilly had evinced an interest in penetrating the American market. He acquired an American agent, had his guns advertised in mail order catalogs, and exhibited at the 1876 Philadelphia centennial along side very high-standard British guns such as Purdey, and won a medal.

Reilly again exhibited at the 1878 Paris exposition and again won medals. By 1880 Reilly sold a third more - soon to be twice as many - serial numbered, hand made bespoke guns than both Holland and Holland and Purdey combined, this in addition to a very active business in guns sold under license from well known gun makers including revolvers (Trantor, Baumont-Adams, Walker, etc), rook rifles, repeating rifles (Sharps, Winchester, etc.), as well as merchandising every type of gun accoutrement - reloaders, cartridges, shells, cases, etc. and sustaining a huge business in previously owned guns.

In November 1881 Oxford Street was renumbered; ”502” became “16 New Oxford Street” and “315” becoming “277 Oxford Street.” The first extant gun with either of the new addresses on the ribs is SN 23816. (In spite of the formal change in numbering, the old numbers occasionally appeared in Reilly ads and on gun ribs for the next couple of years).

Reilly’s business was booming and bespoke gun production topped 900 a year. He exhibited at the 1882 Calcutta fair (a British Empire only affair) and won a medal and was highly praised for his exhibit at the 1885 London International Inventions Exposition where he again won medals. Reilly guns dominated live pigeon shooting contests throughout the 1880’s and big game hunters in Africa used his guns and advertised the results (including Henry Morton Stanley, the Welsh-American and perhaps the most famous of all African explorers).

In July 1885 rue Scribe was closed. The reasons for this are not known - hand made guns were being sold at a very high rate; it may have had to do with the departure of a long-time partner (possibly a M. Poirat). The last extant SN’d gun with rue Scribe on the rib is 27340 (there are two guns with later serial numbers which may have Paris on their barrels). Note: Allegedly at some point in the 1880’s Reilly opened a branch establishment at 29 Rue du Faubourg, St Honore. This has not been confirmed; no guns with this address on the rib have been found; the only advertisement with this address appeared in Jan 1886 touting a win by an Italian at a Monte Carlo pigeon shoot).

Reilly exhibited at the 1889 Paris World's Fair, the “Tour Eiffel" Exposition Universalle, and may have won a silver medal. However, by this time advertisements for Reilly guns had significantly declined and he did not publicize the medals if he won them. A nasty law-suit on easement limitations to the Salavation Army Hall behind his establishment at 277 Oxford Street was litigated. The fact is, something changed with the firm after 1886; Reilly's guns regularly won competitions and were given as prizes; but the company just gradually disappeared from mass-media print.

In July 1890 EM Reilly passed away. Reilly's sons Herbert H. and Charles A. were young. His wife Mary was in her 40's. Business was still lively. Who ran the company during these years is not known though widows did successfully manage companies in England at the time after the deaths of their husbands. By 1894 Reilly guns were no longer being mentioned as winners in Pigeon shoots; Reilly victories and promotional donations of guns as prizes had been a prominent feature in London papers for 25 years. His oldest son Edward Montagu "gun maker," who was involved with the company in some way, died in 1895.

In 1898 the company closed 16 New Oxford Street where it had been located for 50 years; 277 Oxford Street remained open. Bespoke guns continued to be sold in the early 1890’s at a goodly clip but as the decade advanced, and factory mass produced guns with steel barrels began to compete with Damascus, the demand for these hand-made and measured guns in a middling cost category seemed to decline.

Reilly advertisements in mass media, an almost daily occurrence in the London press since 1833, declined markedly as the 90's progressed. In response, with sales diminishing, closing the finishing facilities at 16 New Oxford street while retaining the shooting gallery and smaller sales and manufacturing spaces at 277 Oxford Street would seem to have been logical.

The last extant SN’d gun from 16 New Oxford Street is 34723. After 1898 the trade/case labels changed to reflect the marketing of magazine guns and advertised the medals won in 1876 (Philadelphia), 1878 (Paris), and 1885 (London). On his presentation cases, the company description changed back to "gun and rifle makers" although the company was still "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" in phone and business directories.

In 1903 the Company vacated 277 Oxford Street where they had been quartered for 44 years while the building was being renovated and moved 300 yards down the street to 295 Oxford Street. The company apparently was run by Herbert H. (Bert) Reilly and Charles A. Reilly, EM Reilly’s sons. The first extant gun with 295 Oxford Street on the rib is 35422. The company remained at 295 until bankruptcy was declared on 06 June 1912. The last extant gun with 295 on the rib is 35678.

Bert Reilly opened a small gun shop, E.M Reilly & Co., at 13 High Street, Marylebone in 1912 after the bankruptcy. No advertisements can be found for the shop though per London postal address, telephone and business directories they identified themselves as "gunmakers." No guns with this address on the rib have been found. The date of its closure is not noted although it is listed in London telephone directories up to 1919 and in business directories to 1921.

In August 1922 The Reilly name was bought by a sporting goods dealer named Charles Riggs (most Reilly history summaries put the date of purchase as 1917; this is belied by the dates of newspaper advertising). Riggs apparently decided he could use the name to promote his premium line of guns (possibly built by BSA). Whether a Reilly had any say in the design of these Riggs-Reilly guns is unknown. Riggs remained in business until 1966. His “Reilly named” promotion guns have six-digit serial numbers and appear to begin at around 130000. A Riggs "Reilly" with a serial number in the 150000’s is known to exist. It is doubtful that all these Serial Numbers were "Reilly named" premium products.

The Reilly's sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1825 to 1912, all built by them. The guns that they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. they were one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was consistently classy. Reilly's best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.

Gene Williams, June 11, 2018
Here's adding another E. M. Reilly gun to the mix, a double-barrelled 12-bore pinfire gun serial number 14672, with 30 in. barrels marked "E. M. Reilly & Co Oxford Street London" on the top rib. The plain back-action locks are marked "E. M. Reilly & Co London". The gun has very plain hammers and minor border engraving only. It is a very well-made but unadorned gun.
Thanks Steve, I'll be updating the summary page on all the SN'd guns I've got, last posted about six months ago, in a few weeks adding about 25 guns and adding stuff to the history sections...it'll be part of the historical justification for the above "New Short History of Reilly." 14672 should be 1867 per above.

Photos would be appreciated and enjoyed.
Originally Posted By: Argo44
Thanks Steve, I'll be updating the summary page on all the SN'd guns I've got, last posted about six months ago, in a few weeks adding about 25 guns and adding stuff to the history sections...it'll be part of the historical justification for the above "New Short History of Reilly." 14672 should be 1867 per above.

Photos would be appreciated and enjoyed.


I'll try and post photos soon.
Just for comparison sake, here are a few comments on Reilly from the internet - auction houses, gun experts, etc. over the past 15 years. If you've followed this line, you'll note the obvious and repeated errors of fact in every one of them.

They're posted anonymously; I don't want to smear anyone; just to illustrate the difference between the then current widely accepted knowledge about Reilly and the above new short history. This includes Brown (though admittedly Brown didn't have much to go on at the time he wrote the book).

By the way trw999 had by far and away the best summary of the Reilly's on the internet at the time and I used his compilation as a starting point for my own research. http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=333352

Looking at actual gun serial numbers and ribs was a key starting point to researching the company and the two men; I hope this line has reestablished the history of a forgotten important London gun maker and brought their names out of the shadows.

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Other Notes: Joseph Charles Reilly started business as a jeweller at 12 Middle Row, Holborn in 1816 (when his son Edward Michael Reilly was born) but, as was common in those days, he also sold guns. In 1832 Edward joined him in the business and by 1835 they were trading together as gunmakers at 316 High Holborn, moving regularly over the years before separating. Edward began trading on his own account as 'E. M. Reilly & Co' in 1869. As well as the London shop, Reilly also opened premises in Paris and, in 1898, upon the death of his father, Edward inherited that business. In 1911, probably on the retirement or death of Edward Reilly, the firm became a limited liability company and in 1912 they moved to 13 High Street, Marylebone. Reilly guns are generally of high quality and many are of the very best quality. The firm made a wide range of guns for the game and live-pigeon shooter and since the firm traded throughout the most inventive period of gunmaking history, the variety of Reilly guns encountered is wide.

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According to Nigel Brown's "British Gunmakers" , E.M. Reilly produced shotguns from around 1881 until at least 1916 in London in two locations and also had a retail store front on the Rue Scribe in Paris.

Reilly functioned in a similar fashion as did Scott, Webley and other London makers of the time in that his work was evenly divided between retail sales and also wholesale manufacture "to the trade". It appears that he made guns for several famous London makers who in turn marked his products with their Company names.

Reilly made weapons in several grades from pure field utilitarian (very plain) to extra fancy (heavy scroll engraving, cased, burl walnut grain stocks). Depending on the form and condition, the standard models retail from $325 to $450 and the higher grades up to $2,500 with collectors.

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Joseph Charles Reilly set up as a jeweler in 1816, and went into the gun business in 1835. His son Edward Michael joined him in 1848 and was well established by the time that breech-loading guns became popular. It is more than probable that E M Reilly built no guns himself but he contracted with the very best makers including at least WR and Thomas Turner, and he marketed their excellent guns under his own name, E. M. Reilly and Company since 1882. Reilly did well enough that for some years he maintained a shop in Paris as well. In an 1887 advertisement Reilly claimed to be gunmaker “By special appointment to His Majesty the King of Spain; His Majesty the King of Portugal; His Majesty the King of the Netherlands.” Two prominent Victorians were associated with E.M. Reilly. Sir Samuel Baker used a pair of Reilly 10 bores and inspired by Baker, Frederick Courtney Selous took a Reilly 10 bore to Africa on his first venture there. Selous’ gun was stolen shortly after he arrived and so it is mentioned only ruefully, but Sir Samuel’s pair achieved fame through his books. Because Baker was a hero to the Victorians and his books sold well, the fact that he used Reilly guns was a good endorsement.

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J.C.Reilly se establece con taller de joyería en 1816, en Holborn, mudandose en 1835 a 316 High Holborn. En 1848 su hijo Edmund M. Reilly, comienza a producir las primeras armas, mudando la firma a Londres, donde se establece en 1848, en 502 Oxford St. y posteriormente en 1903, al definitivo 277 y 295 de Oxford Street.
Podemos asegurar que entre 1915 y 1920,

Reilly fabrica algunas de las escopetas y rifles mas finos que podemos encontrar en Inglaterra.

Sus armas destacan por su extraordinario ajuste, la precisión relojera de su construcción, la calidad de los materiales, su seleccion de maderas y sus grabados, especialmente los tipo Scroll, de los que son verdaderos maestros en una época que podemos considerar de oro entre los grabadores ingleses. Alrededor de 1920 la firma es adquirida por Charles Rigss y desaparece la marca.

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Other Notes: In 1867 E. M. Reilly & Co were awarded a Prize Medal at the Paris Exhibition and in 1869 opened up a premises in Paris as E. M. Reilly et Cie at 2 Rue Scribe, Paris. It was here they gained the appointment as gun maker to Napoleon III. This shop closed in 1872 and it wouldn't be until 1884 that a second premises was opened at 29 Rue du Faubourg, St Honore.

Holt's 'Shooting Calendar' for the year 1883 reported the number of wins at live pigeon shooting competitions by London made guns as: Reilly 82, Purdey 55, Lang 48, Grant 40, Hodges 34 and Holland 8.

By 1887 his trade labels have the additional acknowledgements of 'By special appointment to His Majesty the King of Spain; His Majesty the King of Portugal; His Majesty the King of the Netherlands.'

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Our Assessment: Starting as a jeweler in 1816 and later transforming into a gun making outfit in 1835 the Reilly company had an eye for detail and precision craftsmanship. In 1880, E.M. Reilly & CO was successful enough to open and keep a shop in Paris. In 1882, their trade label shows 315 Oxford Street as the main address with the Rue Scribe, Paris location also listed such as the markings found on the rib of this shotgun. As quoted from The Reilly Factor by John Campbell, “So what makes a Reilly gun so special? Well, for me, it’s the overall craftsmanship and precision they embody. Like the more famous names such as Purdey and Holland & Holland, a Reilly is almost always beautifully proportioned and fitted with the finest of English walnut stocks. The locks and metal fits are precisely achieved and beautifully polished and fit. And Reilly engraving is not only classically English, it is flawlessly executed. Even in its more simple expositions.”

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REILLY
Edward Michael Son of Joseph Charles. Gunmaker with father, 1841 Census (age 24). Airgun maker, 502 Oxford Street, 1848-60. Published a Treatise on Air Guns, c 1850. Granted British Patent No. 1259 (Explosive bullet), 1869. Became E.M. Reilly & Co., 1861. Developed in wholesale gun makers, in business until 1917. 

Joseph Charles Jeweller, 12 Middle Row, Holborn, 1816-35. Gunmaker, 316 High Holborn, 1835-47; 502 Oxford Street, 1848-58. Became Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford Street., 1859. re-numbered 277 Oxford Street, 1881; taken over by E.M. Reilly & Co., 1899. 

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Reilly made or marked shotguns from the late percussion era (say 1860) through about 1915. I've seen many hammer guns, fewer hammerless, but both side lock and box lock. Their name also appears on handguns and rifles.\n. \nQuality seems to be higher than average, with most guns showing good engraving and better than average wood. Most barrels are damascus, but I've seen Whitworth, and many have been "tubed" in the modern era.\n. \nGenerally nice pieces

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E.M. Reilly & Co.

Edward Michael Reilly was a London gunmaker born 1816 who entered his father’s business in 1848. By 1861 the firm was called Edward M. Reilly & Co., which later evolved into E.M Reilly & Co. The firm was located in Oxford Street throughout its existence, but the numbers changed sometimes because the firm moved and sometimes because the buildings were renumbered.

For awhile in the 1880’s, the firm had an outlet on Rue Scribe in Paris - an indication of how successful the company was.

Although it was not a household name E.M Reilly was well respected and its products were used by two of the most famous hunters of the Victorian age Sir Samuel Baker and Frederick Courteney Selous. Baker used a pair of E.M. Reilly 10 bores to back up his monstrous “Baby”; Reading of this and seeking seeking to emulate the much admired Baker, Selous took a Reilly 12 bore with him on his first venture to Africa but the gun was stolen shortly after he landed.

E.M. Reilly lasted until 1917 when it was bought out by Charles Riggs & Co., which sold shooting accessories. The Reilly name disappeared from gun making.

Reilly is known to have made hammer guns and boxlocks most of which were probably made in Birmingham and finished at the shop in London. Its boxlocks ranged from very basic to genuine bests.

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I've been doing some internet research on Reilly. There is dispute as to whether the E.M. Reilly Company were manufacturers or retailers only. They were active and lasted in one form or another for almost 60 years, from the early 1840's well into the 1890's. They exhibited their Guns, Shotguns and Rifles in numerous Exhibitions, and seemed to specialize in double barreled weapons. Notably for large game .."Elephants, Tigers and Bison." They were early proponents of the breech loader, and sponsored a competition in which they equaled the best muzzle loaders of the day.
Their earliest shop was at 502 New Oxford Street in London.

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1848-1860: EDWARD MICHAEL REILLY (b.1816, son of J.C. Reilly q.v.) , gunmaker, worked with father 1841; air gun maker 502 Oxford Street,
1861-1868: EDWARD M. REILLY & CO., s.a. 1861-1869;
1870-1874: 502 and 315 Oxford Street,1870-1874;
1875-1882: 502 Oxford Street only 1875-1882;
1883-1898: 10 New Oxford Street 1883-1898;
1899: succeeded to business of REILLY & CO., q.v. 1899;
277 Oxford Street (315 renumbered 1881), t.a. E.M. REILLY CO., 1901-1902………

British Gunmakers, Nigel Brown Volume One - London. Your beautiful cased Reilly brought 2,800 GBP exclusive of Buyer's Premium at Holt's December, 1977 Main Sale. You gun was made between 1883-1898 as he was at the New Oxford Street address during those years.

"In 1859 J C Reilly became Reilly & Co and moved to 315 Oxford Street (later named "Armoury House"), Joseph Manton's old premises and next door to James Purdey. E M Reilly stayed at 502 New Oxford Street. In 1860 Edward M Reilly became Edward M Reilly & Co.

From 1870 to 1874 E M Reilly & Co traded from both 502 New Oxford Street and 315 Oxford Street, and in 1869 Edward started trading as E M Reilly et Cie at 2 Rue Scribe, Paris; reportedly, this shop closed in 1872.

From 1875 to 1882 E M Reilly traded only from 502 Oxford Street leaving J C Reilly on his own at 315 Oxford Street. In 1881 315 Oxford Street was re-numbered 277 Oxford Street (James Purdey ocupied 314-315 Oxford Street which, possibly because of sub-division and re-arrangement of the shopfronts/building, he called 314 1/2, it became 287-289).

The re-numbering of Oxford Street included No. 502 New Oxford Street which was re-numbered to 16 New Oxford Street.

At some time between 1884 and 1898 E M Reilly opened another shop in Paris, this time at 29 Rue du Faubourg, St Honore. When it closed is not known. In 1898, on the death of his father, Edward inherited his father's business and closed at 16 New Oxford Street.”

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Volume 3 of Nigel Brown's BRITISH GUNMAKERS - (courtesy of Lagopus.)

REILLY EDWARD MICHAEL/& Co/REILLY JOSEPH CHARLES. E.M. Reilly was the son of Joseph and took over the business in 1899 having been separated in business on his own account since 1848. Since it looks as though Edward may have continued his father’s numbering system at least initially, I have therefore tabulated both their records together. E.M Reilly was last recorded as such in 1917 but Charles Riggs & Co., who set up in 1909, started advertising himself as Charles Riggs & Co. (incorporating E.M. Reilly & co., Est. 100 years) c.1942 and from the look of the last Reilly gun noted he may well have been using the name a little before that. Reilly put out a large number of guns as can be seen from the Nos. noted - not all of which are listed. There was a Paris branch in the Rue Scribe certainly in the 1870’s and 1880’s.

Followed by a list of guns with numbers and dates starting with c.1840 No. 254, a percussion pistol, and ending in 1936/7 with number 150570.


I made a resolution to post nothing more about Reilly except for the extensive historical justification for the above short history. But here is are period pictures of Reilly's London buildings.
-- 16 (502) Oxford Street about 1885....(identified from a picture of the Tottenham (Flying Horse) Pub then located at 2 or 6 Oxford Street.) and a modern view of same.
-- 277 (316) Oxford Street about 1890 and a modern view of same with the "Marker building" of 1 Harwood Pl, Mayfair which still exists.
-- 295 Oxford Street about 1885, 18 years before the Reilly's moved in (with the Harwood "marker building") and modern pictures from google about 2005.

For those who wonder where were the Reilly finishing facilities, look at the size of 16 and 277...those buildings were huge. Also the fronts of each seem similar - no awnings, greco-bank style entrances; solidity, success. And check out the clientele on Oxford Street at the time - no flip flops, athletic shorts, tee shirts; just the stylish upwardly mobile.

================================ 16 Oxford Street ================================
Original building as pictured on Reilly labels 1848-1859; At some point before 1880 the building was modernized.


Picture of the Flying Horse (later Tottenham) Pub located at 2 or 6 Oxford Street about 1885. Arrow points to 16 Oxford Street. Note window pattern is the same as the modern building below. The "eyebrow" building (now a McDonalds) and the two buildings that seem to step down toward Reilly's 16 Oxford Street are still there. The Flying horse in the small two story building (without awning) in the picture was torn down and the new ornate Empire style building built where the pub is now.


Google photo of the area. 16 Oxford street is the arrow



================================ 277 Oxford Street ================================

277 Oxford Street about 1890


Google view of the area today with 277, the shooting gallery and the "marker building" at 1 Harwood, which permits confirming the location.



================================ 295 Oxford Street ================================

Here is 295 Oxford Street in 1885, about 18 years before Reilly moved into the building in 1903 while 277, further down the street towards Regents (Oxford) Circus was being rebuilt. The "marker building 1 Harwood is identified.



Google views of 295 Oxford from about 2005 with the Harwood building as a marker.



I am a descendant of JC Reilly and Edward Michael Reilly, they are my 3x great-grandfather and 2x great grandfather, respectively. My name is Sally Reilly.

I have very much enjoyed looking through the information that has been posted about the business, in particular, all the photos of the guns and labels.

I have a a bit of information I can add to what you have already, more about the family that the actual guns.

His granddaughter Martha Stephens explained why he came over to England in a book she wrote about her father, She wrote that he was the son of a Squire who was sent to England to study and become a barrister. She explained, “This was because Roman Catholics were not allowed in Ireland to enter any profession and there was no other course for him to be duly qualified” I assume he came over between 1805 and 1812. (I have no information about the family in Ireland)

The first record I have found for JC Reilly was his marriage to Martha Barkley, at St Andrews Holborn, on 17 May 1812. They went on to have four children, Ann b. 7th Mar 1813, Ellen or Elinor b. 30 March 1815, Edward Michael Reilly, b. 1 Sept 1817 and Charles Joseph Reilly, b. 4 July 1819. (Source: Documents held at Wiltshire and Swindon Archives).

Anne Reilly married Henry Stephens FRCS, a surgeon and ink manufacturer and they had 7 children, one of whom became an MP, and one of which wrote a booklet about her father Henry Stephens in which she refers to her mothers family, the Reilly's. In particular she mentions grandparents JC Reilly and Martha, and her Aunt Ellen. She described the marriage of Joseph and Martha as ‘It was a most unfortunate union for her’. We can assume this was partly due to the character of Joseph Charles Reilly as she wrote “Joseph Charles Reilly was selfish, harsh, (and) neglectful of everything but his own comfort. No one had a good word to say of him.”

Ellen never married, and spent quite a bit of time in Paris, France.

Edward Michael Reilly went into the gun making business, as you are already aware.

Charles Joseph Reilly, I believe spent some time in New York as an Agent for Stephens Ink, I have very little other information about him.

Joseph Charles Reilly’s business was obviously successful, as in 1824 whilst still living at 12 Middle Row, he bought a property called Bourne End Farm (now called Hill Green), in Cranfield, Bedfordshire for Ł1625.

The 1841 Census, recorded Joseph Reilly, aged 61, a Gunmaker, born in Ireland living in Holborn. Also living in the same household was Martha Reilly, aged 54, Elinor, aged 26, both born in the same county, Middlesex and Edward Reilly aged 24, a Gunmaker, not born in the same county. There was another member of the household aged 20 years, a female servant, The actual address that Joseph Charles and his family were living at was 12 Middle Row, as this is recorded on other sources, namely directories and electoral registers.

Joseph Charles moved to 502 Oxford Street, Bloomsbury, Finsbury in 1848, he held a tenancy agreement on this address from 1848 to 1860 onwards. In 1881 this was renumbered 16 New Oxford Street. This was the address he was living at on the night of the 1851 census. He claimed to be a widower. (We know this is not true, as his wife Martha was found to be living with their daughter Anne Stephens.) His occupation was Gunmaker and his birth place was recorded as Granard, Ireland. Also living with him was a servant. I think Joseph and Martha were estranged.

He moved again in 1859, taking out another tenancy agreement on 315 Oxford Street, which backed onto Salvation Army Hall.

The 1861 Census, recorded Joseph Charles Reilly, aged 73, living at Bourn End, Cranfield as head of the household. Again he claims to be a widower, which this time is correct. (We know that Martha Reilly nee Barkley died in November 1960.) His occupation was recorded as Fund holder and Land Proprietor and his birth place as Ireland, Bonin. (Not been able to find out where this is it does not seem to exist) Living with him was a young, unmarried housekeeper, aged 23, called Elizabeth May from Buckinghamshire.

Joseph Charles Reilly died on 11th January 1864, aged 79 at Cranfield, Bedfordshire. According to his death record he died of ‘decay of nature’, old age. Susanna Hailey was present at the death and left her mark, suggesting she was illiterate. It is likely that she was his house-keeper.

Joseph Charles was buried in the Graveyard of the Parish Church in Cranfield, Church of St Peter & Paul. He requested in his will that he wanted to be buried in 'in a plain manner and that a decent stone be placed at the head of my grave with the inscription "Joseph Charles Reilly formerly Gun Maker London”.'

I have more information about E M Reilly that I will post another day.

Sally
Originally Posted By: Reilly
I am a descendant of JC Reilly and Edward Michael Reilly, they are my 3x great-grandfather and 2x great grandfather, respectively. My name is Sally Reilly.

I have very much enjoyed looking through the information that has been posted about the business, in particular, all the photos of the guns and labels.

I have a a bit of information I can add to what you have already, more about the family that the actual guns.

His granddaughter Martha Stephens explained why he came over to England in a book she wrote about her father, She wrote that he was the son of a Squire who was sent to England to study and become a barrister. She explained, “This was because Roman Catholics were not allowed in Ireland to enter any profession and there was no other course for him to be duly qualified” I assume he came over between 1805 and 1812. (I have no information about the family in Ireland)

The first record I have found for JC Reilly was his marriage to Martha Barkley, at St Andrews Holborn, on 17 May 1812. They went on to have four children, Ann b. 7th Mar 1813, Ellen or Elinor b. 30 March 1815, Edward Michael Reilly, b. 1 Sept 1817 and Charles Joseph Reilly, b. 4 July 1819. (Source: Documents held at Wiltshire and Swindon Archives).

Anne Reilly married Henry Stephens FRCS, a surgeon and ink manufacturer and they had 7 children, one of whom became an MP, and one of which wrote a booklet about her father Henry Stephens in which she refers to her mothers family, the Reilly's. In particular she mentions grandparents JC Reilly and Martha, and her Aunt Ellen. She described the marriage of Joseph and Martha as ‘It was a most unfortunate union for her’. We can assume this was partly due to the character of Joseph Charles Reilly as she wrote “Joseph Charles Reilly was selfish, harsh, (and) neglectful of everything but his own comfort. No one had a good word to say of him.”

Ellen never married, and spent quite a bit of time in Paris, France.

Edward Michael Reilly went into the gun making business, as you are already aware.

Charles Joseph Reilly, I believe spent some time in New York as an Agent for Stephens Ink, I have very little other information about him.

Joseph Charles Reilly’s business was obviously successful, as in 1824 whilst still living at 12 Middle Row, he bought a property called Bourne End Farm (now called Hill Green), in Cranfield, Bedfordshire for Ł1625.

The 1841 Census, recorded Joseph Reilly, aged 61, a Gunmaker, born in Ireland living in Holborn. Also living in the same household was Martha Reilly, aged 54, Elinor, aged 26, both born in the same county, Middlesex and Edward Reilly aged 24, a Gunmaker, not born in the same county. There was another member of the household aged 20 years, a female servant, The actual address that Joseph Charles and his family were living at was 12 Middle Row, as this is recorded on other sources, namely directories and electoral registers.

Joseph Charles moved to 502 Oxford Street, Bloomsbury, Finsbury in 1848, he held a tenancy agreement on this address from 1848 to 1860 onwards. In 1881 this was renumbered 16 New Oxford Street. This was the address he was living at on the night of the 1851 census. He claimed to be a widower. (We know this is not true, as his wife Martha was found to be living with their daughter Anne Stephens.) His occupation was Gunmaker and his birth place was recorded as Granard, Ireland. Also living with him was a servant. I think Joseph and Martha were estranged.

He moved again in 1859, taking out another tenancy agreement on 315 Oxford Street, which backed onto Salvation Army Hall.

The 1861 Census, recorded Joseph Charles Reilly, aged 73, living at Bourn End, Cranfield as head of the household. Again he claims to be a widower, which this time is correct. (We know that Martha Reilly nee Barkley died in November 1960.) His occupation was recorded as Fund holder and Land Proprietor and his birth place as Ireland, Bonin. (Not been able to find out where this is it does not seem to exist) Living with him was a young, unmarried housekeeper, aged 23, called Elizabeth May from Buckinghamshire.

Joseph Charles Reilly died on 11th January 1864, aged 79 at Cranfield, Bedfordshire. According to his death record he died of ‘decay of nature’, old age. Susanna Hailey was present at the death and left her mark, suggesting she was illiterate. It is likely that she was his house-keeper.

Joseph Charles was buried in the Graveyard of the Parish Church in Cranfield, Church of St Peter & Paul. He requested in his will that he wanted to be buried in 'in a plain manner and that a decent stone be placed at the head of my grave with the inscription "Joseph Charles Reilly formerly Gun Maker London”.'

I have more information about E M Reilly that I will post another day.

Sally


Thank you very much for this information. I look forward to reading more about E M Reilly.
Sally, Many thanks for your contribution about the Reilly family and it is remarkable. The birth dates of EM from 1816 to 1817 and the date of the death of JC from 1863 to 1864 have been corrected.

The date of the move from 316 High Holborn to 502 New Oxford has been kept as 23 March 1847 rather than 1848 per the following London newspaper advertisements.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . .20 March 1847, "Morning Post" ("Removing to another establishment..")


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 03 April 1847 "London News" ("Removed from Holborn")


BLISSETT occupied 316 High Holborn and advertised in April 1847 that these were the former premises of Reilly.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 April 1847, "Illustrated London News" ("Formerly Reilly's")


The effect of anti-Catholic sentiment in Britain at the time on JC and EM Reilly has been a curiosity. Also, England at the time was such a class conscious society. One of my favorite books is "Mr. American," of course written by George MacDonald Fraser (creator of "Flashman" series), about an American gun fighter who made a fortune, wound up in England about 1895 and ran smack into the English class structure...there were something like 175 identified classes and the "proper etiquette" for each class towards each class seems almost as complicated as the Hindu Caste structure in India at the time.

Also it doesn't surprise about the egos or managerial practices of either JC or EM - both created and ran an important company; I think EM had a real gift for marketing.

In the above I've tried to recreate the Reilly serial number chronology and have concentrated on the gun-making. Now we all have something concrete about the men and the family - this fills out the picture of the idividuals. We look forward to more about Edward Michael. For history, we'd all be particularly interested in who ran the company after his death in 1890 and how the Reilly name came to be associated with Charles Riggs in 1922. And, if you have any pictures of either man, they would be much appreciated. Again many thanks - what a pleasant surprise and a historical gift.

Gene Williams

Edit: Also anything you might have on on his Paris branch would be much appreciated. Do you have any info on who ran the Paris store and why EM closed it? The fact his sister spent a lot of time there is fascinating.
Here is E. M. Reilly & Co. No. 14672, a 12-bore pinfire game gun, unmarked double bite screw-grip action, with minimal decorative engraving. While it is 'plain', the beautiful build quality nevertheless shows through.



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1830 - 1890 - Reilly making his own guns
-- These posts provide definitive evidence that Reilly manufactured his own guns...QED:

The question of whether Reilly made his own guns has been repeatedly asked with the usual internet response being "No."

From TRW999's post: "In the 1881 census Edward was recorded living at 315 Oxford Street, before it was re-numbered. He was recorded living with his wife, Mary A (b.1848 in London), 31 years his junior. His children were listed as Charles A (b.1871), Herbert (b.1875) and Gerard (b.1878), all were born in London. Charles A, being born in 1871 suggests that Edward and Mary A were married shortly before 1871 and suggests that Edward could have been previously married and had children. Interestingly, Edward described himself in the census as a gun maker employing 300 men. This figure may have been a transcription error because it is an extraordinarily large number and there is no record of any Reilly factory in London or Birmingham.

The correct answer as detailed above repeatedly and reiterated below: "Yes, the Reilly's made their own guns and did so in their large buildings in London.".
-- they responded to orders 3 times as fast as other London gun makers and could make special orders;
-- by early 1880's they were making over 1,000 serial numbered guns a year + a huge business in guns made under license engraved and marketed by them.
-- It was virtually a factory output - they had to have had their own finishers, engravers, stockers, as has been speculated above; they may have imported barrel stocks and actions from Birmingham but their guns were made in-house.

========================================================================================================================================
1830 - Reilly making his own guns

..........18 July 1830, "Bell's Life."


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1831 - Reilly makes his own guns (continued)


May 1831 Advertisement from "The New Sporting Magazine."
1) He's making his own guns and calls himself "Gunmaker" - in Jan 1831 rings and jewelry were stolen from his store - this ad may therefore be the first in which he identifies solely as "gunmaker.";
2) He's advertising guns and pistols - at this time he was still serial numbering pistols in his chronology;
2) these are at very moderate prices (see business model);
3) There is mentioned of "Patent Breech" which appears on a couple of his pre 1845 guns. Believe this is the Henry Nock patent.



================================================================================================================
1840 - Reilly making his own guns (continued)


I ran across a note that London gunmaker and Reilly friend HJ Blanch had compiled a notebook of various ads and gun related subjects that had been turned over to the Royal Armories probably about 1905 when he died. On P.15 was an ad by Joseph Charles Reilly at 316 High Holborn (1835-47). Royal Armories sent a photo copy. Much of it is the usual found in newspapers. But this is interesting because it adds weight to the argument that Reilly indeed made or and the very least finished his own guns.
. .1) The ad refers to Reilly's "own guns" and to a barrel boring process he used.
. .2) He could fulfill "peculiar orders" in 4-5 weeks and could rebore barrels.
To do this he had to be able to make his own guns and to have a barrel boring machine on his premises.
..3)Oh yes, note the problem of forgeries which existed even at that time.




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1861 - Reilly making his own guns (continued)

..........April 14, 1861, "Bell's Life." If Reilly wasn't making his own guns, he sure as heck couldn't have allowed gentlemen to "superintend the progress of their gun."


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1861 - Reilly makes his own guns (continued)


Reilly made his own guns and on his own premises. There are enough ads and articles around to confirm this now, this in addition to the 1880 census in which Reilly said he employed 300 workers. If there is any doubt that London gun makers made guns on their premises, the bankruptcy inventory of Joseph Manton's building in 1826 included boring machines, lathes, etc. Here are some more ads:

..........11 Jul 1861 "Volunteer's Service Gazette"


..........28 Sept 1861, "Bell's Life"


..........17 Aug 1862 "Bell's Life" - review of guns at the 1862 London World's Fair



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1862 - Reilly making his own guns (continued)


..........1862 London exposition catalog with Reilly's entry - identifies his manufacturing location as 315 Oxford Street:


================================================================================================================
1862 - Reilly making his own guns (continued)

In an early (1862) advertisement he guaranteed guns he made himself (though by 1880 he was guaranteeing everything that he sold).

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1862 - Reilly making his own guns (continued) - workshop location

Where were his workshops? 1862 at 502 New Oxford Street. Well take a look at his two buildings at 16 (originally 502) New Oxford Street and 277 (originally 315) Oxford Street. 16 Oxford Street is HUGE….It must have 20,000 sq feet of floor space. 277 Oxford Street is almost as big. And since he had a 50 yard shooting gallery at 277 Oxford Street it had to be behind the building in some fashion. (The Quonset hut in the photo is the old Salvation Army hall which gave rise to the name "Amoury House" for 277 and was there throughout the 44 year stay of Reilly at the address). There gentlemen are the Reilly workshops.

.................16 (502) Oxford Street Today........................................................277 (315) Oxford Street Today


...........................502 Oxford Street on Reilly Labels 1858-59


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1882 - Reilly making his own guns (continued)

Also as an aside in addition to the many articles providing evidence that Reilly made his own guns.
..........1882 Grace's Guide Advert:


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1863 - Reilly makes guns for British Royalty


Reilly for a brief moment tried to claim to be a gun maker for the Prince of Wales. Well, it turned out he made a gun for future Edward VII but others apparently were to be given away as presents; apparently the royals wouldn't let him put that on his ads:

..........11 Mar 1863 "London Daily News" - lights put up by Reilly to celebrate the Prince's wedding


..........10 Nov 1863 "London Evening Post" - on the Prince's birthday


Prince Alfred seemed to like to give away Reilly's. Another article shows him giving a Reilly gun as a gift to an Indian Rajah,
..........24 Apr 1863 "Morning Advertiser" and repeated in many other papers


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1820-1912 - Reilly making his own guns (continued) - Both off the rack and bespoke


As long suspected, Reilly sold his own EM Reily named guns both ready-made/off the rack and bespoke/made to order. This may explain some of the SN differences. Though we'll never know for sure unless additional information turns up, Reilly probably SN'd his guns when sold or when ordered and paid for. This may explain Terry Lubinski's 303xx - SN'd in 1888-89 but with "Not for Ball" on the barrel (1887) or my case label 26584 (1884) with "1886" written on the label. This may also be a later development beginning about 1880 with a marketing decision to sell off the rack. And it might explain the spurt to over 1000 SN guns being made per year in the early 1880's. This may merit a new post. Here is an 1888 advertisement in Turner which seems to confirm this:

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1885 - Closing of rue Scribe


Reilly closed rue Scribe in late July 1885 not in 1886 as has been widely accepted (including by me)...this will require a re-doing of the number chronology above. This conclusion is based on reviewing advertisements in the London Press for 1885-86. Reilly posted virtually the same ad in "Bell's Life in London and Sporting Chronicle" (Which became "Sporting Life" in summer 1886) every week for years. Here is the change in advertisements.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 Jul 1885. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .08 Aug 1885



I think the assumption that Reilly closed rue Scribe in 1886 was caused by long-term advertisements in publications with a long-lead time, which were published yearly such as these.

. . . "Bradshaw's Railroad Guide (Paris) 1886. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . ."Burke's Landed Gentry" 1886


The number chronology has been redone. There are also changes in dates in the narrative. "Gun-Maker" first appeared in Reilly advertisements in 1833 rather than 1834. The name of the firm switched in ads from J.C. Reilly back to "Reilly" in June 1840 rather than 1841, etc. Not a big deal except for historians since all I'm trying to do is date the gun serial numbers...but worth noting.

=================================================== ========================================
1886 - rue du Faubourg, St. Honore revisited


In addition, here is likely the reason it has been claimed that Reilly opened a shop on rue du Faubourg, St. Honore in Paris. The ads for this event appeared in London papers on 28 Jan - 01 Feb 1886 only. These are the only references to rue du Faubourg and Reilly found. At virtually the same time - 30 Jan 1886 and 23 Jan 1886, "Bell's Life" published the usual ads in the above format without mentioning rue du Faubourg. The conclusion must be that 1) either the ad was place by the winner of the competition Signor Guidicini and it was he who made an error - the competition was in Monte Carlo (Monaco) after all. or 2) the rue du Faubourg address was indeed on the gun, which means a branch on that street did exist at some time. More newspapers will be searched to look for ads to determine when (if) it opened/closed; might have to go to Parisian Journeaux. Welcome any additional information on this subject. Edited: See p.21 for existence of Rue du Faubourg, St. Honore labels.

EDIT: The entire London newspaper database has been searched for the 1880's...in several ways, "Reilly," "Reilly and guns," "Faubourg," "Faubourg and Reilly," etc. The only references to Faubourg and Reilly are the below articles and advertisements which appeared in the "Sportsman" and "Morning Post from 28 Jan 1886 to 1 Feb 1886. There was a well-to-do English ex-Pat community on rue du Faubourg; English tailors worked on the street for years; there was a French gunmaking concern there as well. It was even then a prestigious address; Reilly would not have kept it secret. Thus unless someone has other information, it must be assumed that the rue du Faubourg address for Reilly in the below ads is not correct.

. . . . . . . . . ."The Sportsman" 28/01/1886. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ."The Morning Post" 29/01/1886


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1885 - Reilly last guns at rue Scribe (repost)


The last extant gun with rue Scribe on the rib is 27340 (and I've not seen the actual photos).
============================================================
27340. (No photos)
E.M. REILLY &. Co.- Oxford Street LONDON & Rue Scribe - PARIS.: Hammergun Side by Side, 12 bore,gun number 27340 London proof mark.Price Euro 1.850. Both guns have damas barrel, owner say in good condition auctioned at www.czernys.com/ in 2005
https://www.internetgunclub.com/~inte8406/archived-forum/posts.php?topicid=288


Terry Buffum mentioned he had a couple of guns 27570 and 27854 which had "Paris" on their barrels (he said 27854 address was unclear). This also would change the chronology significantly if true but I hesitate to start moving things around until I can see the inscription..And there were a few intervening SN's without rue Scribe...There's a lot of "internet legend" around (although Terry can be counted on).
============================================================
27854. (no photos of rib)
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/110/133.php
serial #27854, 12 ga., 30" barrels with bright excellent bores choked full and full. This shotgun is built on a W. & C. Scott crystal indicator action with side clips and with each lock being engraved "E.M. REILLY & CO. / LONDON". The markings on the tops of the barrel are difficult to read but appear to be the E.M. Reilly & Company name and London address on the left barrel and a Paris address on the right barrel. The shotgun was part of a set and is numbered "2" in gold on dolls head rib extension and engraved on interior forend metal. The barrels are Birmingham nitro proofed for 2 3/4" shells with 1 1/16 oz. loads. The minimum wall thickness is generally .0245 with one small area that gets to .023. The action and locks show near full coverage tight English scroll engraving with a nice round flower panel on top of action. The barrels retain about 95% evenly thinning restored blue finish overall. The action and locks show an even gray patina and remain very smooth and free of pitting. The checkered straight grip walnut buttstock and splinter forend rate very good plus as refinished long ago. The gun features a 14 5/8" length of pull over checkered butt and shows drops of 1 1/2" and 2 3/8". The gun locks up tight and points beautifully. A neat crystal indicator sidelever Reilly Ejectorgun. (17147-176) {C&R} [Terry Buffum Collection]


The Reilly SN chart above (p.17) has been updated with all the caveats - it'll get you close to the year your gun was produced but includes subjective information. It includes changes reflecting 1857 date of JC's retirement vice Dec 1858; July 1885 date of the closure of rue Scribe vice summer 1886, etc.

It's hard for me to post that Reilly production soared to 950 bespoke guns a year in the early 1880's but that's what the serial numbers say. It also makes Reilly's decline in the 1890's more dramatic. As soon as EM died in 1890 it's as if someone forgot to promote the company's wares. Advertisements just disappeared and by 1894, Reilly's guns disappeared from the Pigeon shooting winners' circle in newspaper results as well.

One assumes it was competition from factory mass-produced guns - a lot of UK gun-makers went into decline about this time...but surely a failure in basic marketing had something to do with it too.

The "New Short History of Reilly of London, Gunmaker" (P.17 above) has been also edited. It would be nice to provide hard information on Reilly from about the closure of 16 New Oxford Street in 1898 to bankruptcy in 1912. But a lot of what's known about Reilly comes from advertisements, gun ribs and case trade labels. If these don't exist, there's nothing really more to report until other resources become available. For instance neither the exact date of the 1898 closure of 16 New Oxford St., nor the 1903 move to 295 Oxford can be established so far. Sally hopefully can help.

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1900 - 1912??? - Decline in Reilly quality??

Here are a few posts of Reilly's engraving from the 1890's- through about 1905. There looks to be a marked decline in quality for their middle level guns after about 1900 (high quality guns like Toby's former 35079 appear to still be good quality"). This may be an indication of the troubles the company faced; Bert Reilly just couldn't keep up with the times or with the quality.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . .30846 (1889). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33358 (1895). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .33619 (1895)


. . . . . . . . .34442 (1897). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .34723 (1898). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .34865 (1899)



Best Gun (formerly Toby Barclay's) 35079 (1900)


. . . . . . . . . . . . . .1901-1905 engraving

I know people are fed up with this line - but these posts are interesting enough to make note of for the Reilly historian:

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1857 - Retirement of JC Reilly


According to this advertisement in the 02 Sep 1857 edition of "London Daily News," J.C. Reilly retired at the end to 1857 (rather than late 1858) and turned everything over to his son Edward. This will effect dating of the J.C. "7000" series serial numbered guns. The above chart will be changed, as will the above narrative "New Short History." It also means that E.M. did not change the name of the company until a year after his father's retirement.



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1862 - 1864 - Reilly and the Green Bros Breech Loader -2


A Reilly-made Green-Brothers patent breech loader is posted above in the Military gun series. It is SN 13333 and it gave problems in dating Reilly Serial Numbers in the 1860's. It was Reilly made gun nr. 23. Green bros took out their patent in Spring 1862. However, per the below ads, Reilly did not put his first Green brothers guns on the market until April 1864 and the trials really got underway in June-July. In the SN Chart above, 13333 is pretty much in the middle of 1864, an indication of the essential accuracy of those estimates:



..........22 Apr 1864 "London Daily News"


..........04 Apr 1864 "London Daily News" - part of a review of the gun


..........29/Jul1864 "Morning Post" reporting on testing of the Green Bros against others including the Snider:


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1862 - Reilly and Sarawak


A good story about an Anglican bishop out in Sarawak (Rajah Brooke - James Brooke -, an Englishman who shot his way to power in the 1840's and whose family remained in charge in Sarawak for 120 years called the "White Raja" until it was merged with Malaysia in 1960). The "Biship" with Rajah Brooke used a Reilly to kill some 80 pirates and his ship rammed and sank three pirate boats. There was lots of hand-wringing in England about those poor boys - reminds you of 9/11 and the sympathy for those poor dears in Guantanamo.

..........09 July 1862 "Bell's Life"


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1871 - Reilly and his first Martini-Henry


Here is more evidence that the above Serial Number Date chart is pretty accurate. The first extant Reilly Serial Numbered Martini-Henry that I can find is 17314. The Chart dates it to late 1871. Here is the first Reilly ad I've found so far that mentions Martini-Henry's - dated December 1871:

..........25 December 1871, "The Graphic"


Reilly did not serial number Martini-Henry's he did not build. And he did not serial number very many Martini's - It seems the Enfield factory would send you the parts to be assembled if you wanted to sell a Martini. He must of built this gun very early on, perhaps one of the very first - The Martini-Henry wasn't adopted until summer 1871 - which may explain why it was serial numbered.




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1877 - 79 - Reilly and 20 bores


Finally a book review about a book written by hunting correspondent "Wildfowler" who used a Reilly 20 bore and a sample of his writing.

..........15 Feb 1879 "Sporting & Dramatic News"


..........29 Sep 1977 "Bell's Life"
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1889 - Reilly exhibits at Tour Eiffel World's Fair


Per the 18 September 1889 edition of "Morning Post," Reilly did exhibit at the 1889 Paris Exposition Universelle, the "Tour Eiffel" World's Fair and may have won a silver medal (the article is unclear but implies all English gun makers won at least silver medals). The historical narrative will be changed above.

If he won a medal he never featured it on his case labels, - it was not on the post 1898 label that feature medals from the 1873 Vienna, 1876 Philadelphia, 1878 Paris or 1885 London fairs, or in the few ads which can be found after 1889. (On the other hand, of all the World's Fair medals displayed on all sorts of labels, stationary, ads etc., the one you DON'T see ever is the 1889 fair medals - can't say why that is.

In fact newspaper ads just dried up after 1886. From 1887-1892 Reilly's guns are mention in the UK Press virtually every week winning shooting contests and being given away as prizes. However, without ads or articles to put the wins into context, it's hard to know what was going on with the firm. (Edit: There are ads right up to May 1912 - just can't access them for the moment).. If anyone stumbles onto advertisements for Reilly after 1890, please let me know the link. Also there are precious few original Case Labels from that time period of you get hold of one.

.....18 September 1889 "Morning Post." From the article one infers that all British gun makers won medals.


.....PAGE 152 of the official 1889 Paris Exhibition Catalog:
https://archive.org/details/internationalex02commgoog


Per this advertisement from the 1889 Exposition catalog, Grubb of Philadelphia was still his USA Agent - had been since 1868:
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Sep 1857 - Autumn 1860 - "Reilly, Gun Maker" becomes "E.M. Reilly & Co.," becomes "Gun Manufacturer"


Again this is for the Reilly historian (this gets pretty nit-picking) though it may bear on dating serial numbers and certainly on dating labels: After looking at every ad I can find the "New Short History" above for the period 1857-1860 has been modified - I've tried to keep that history as simple as possible concentrating on serial numbers, because really gyrations of the firm at the time is pretty academic. Nevertheless the actual story of the company gets a little complicated and will be reflected mostly in ads and case labels. There were several distinct events during this short time frame as follows:

1). Sep 1857 - JC retired. The firm continued to be known as "Reilly, Gun Maker" (two words) for almost two years after JC's departure:
..........02 Sep 1857 edition of "London Daily News,"


2) Nov-Dec 1858 - for a very short time in newspaper advertisements the firm was "Reilly, Manufacturer."
..........11 Dec 1858 "Illustrated London News"


Yet the firm was known as "Reilly, Gun Maker" in most long-lead-time publications:


3) Jan 1859 - 315 Oxford St. opened and was identified as "Reilly's Armoury House."

First Newspaper Ad for "Reilly's Armoury House": 16 January 1859 , "Bell's Life" - these ads only for Amoury House bombarded the Newspapers. They continue to be posted well into 1861.


4) Apr-Jun 1859 - "Reilly & Co, Gunmakers" (one word) was used for a short tine for 502 New Oxford St. . "Reilly & Co." however, was used to describe the company in several collateral publications at the time in 1859. And "Reilly & Co." was used on into 1861 in conjunction with Amoury House.

..........02 April 1859, "Illustrated London News."


. . . . Book written 1859, published 1860. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Ad for a rifling system 10/09/59 Volunteer's Services Gazette
5) Fall 1859 - EM Reilly & Co., "Gunmakers" (one word) was used for the company which ran both Armoury house (315) and 502 New Oxford St, a description which continued up to summer 1860. For sure "EM Reilly, Gunmaker" (one word) appears in some mid-1859 long lead-time advertisements - and in some newspapers dueling ads were run for "Reilly's Armoury House" and "E.M Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, branch establishment 315 Oxford Street" in the same issue after Fall 1859:

..........26 October 1859 Sporting Life:


Believe the case labels for 502 New Oxford St. from about September 1859 (when E.M. Reilly & Co. first appeared) to Summer 1860 when "Gun Manufacturers" appeared must have looked like this with the traditional sketch of 502 New Oxford Street,and "E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Maker" (two words):



For a short time in 1859-early 1860 there may have been a specific and different case label associated with Armoury House (This is a reproduction but has to be a reproduction of something - never seen it actually in a case to confirm); From about 1876 - 1890 Reilly did have a slightly different case label for 315 later 277 than for 502 later 16; And there was a separate 315 series used mostly for pistols):



For long lead-time publications such as Bradshaw and the Red book, both "Gun Makers" and "Gunmakers" appeared simultaneously for 1860:



6) 01 August 1860 - First newspaper ads appear describing E.M Reilly as "Gun Manufacturer." (singular)

. . . . . 28 July 1860, "Sporting Life" - Gunmaker. . . . . . . . . . . . 04 Aug 1860, "Sporting Life"..Gun Manufacturer (singular)


One supposes then that the classic Reilly 1860's Case Label, which continued with variants up to 1898 with "EM Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturers," could not have appeared until August 1860 (per newspaper ads below) if you're trying to date your case. The Sanskrit script reads .. Maharaj Pratap Singh ji Solarkar or Sarkar Palamau. Vaishak..(i.e April/May) Sudi 12 means 12 of April/ May..Sanwat 1937 means Hindu calendar Vikrami Sanwat 1937. that is 137 years old. 200 Silvers rupees paid to the seller along with some presentation. I.e. the gun was resold in India in 1880 for 200 silver rupees to Maharajah Pratap Singh ji, Sarkar (lord) of Palamau.



Long lead-time ads for 1861 identified Reilly as "Gun Manufacturers."

..........January 1861 ,"Broyles Court Guide"


However, "Gun Manufacturers" really did not appear in the normal press ads until April 1861, whatever that means.

..........14 April 1861, "Bell's Life"


All this works out as a check on the above Serial Number-Date list.
-- It means that "EM REILLY & CO." might not have appeared until October 1859. As a check, on the above list the first extant gun with that name on its rib is 11115 and on the chart it indeed lands in the latter half of 1859.
-- It also means that there may be a gun somewhere with "Reilly, 315 Oxford Street" dating from January 1859 - September 1859 with a different label.....the reproduction label with "Reilly Amoury House" came from someplace.
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1898-1912 - Reilly's labels and the Vienna World's Fair medals


By the way the fourth medal on the post 1898 Reilly label that couldn't be identified:



I'm almost 100% sure it was for the 1873 Vienna World's Fair as speculated above - I've seen enough of them on all sorts of UK wares. This was the medal given for "Innovation."



There's only one problem: I don' t think Reilly was there. I could be wrong but can't find another explanation. That's definitely Franz Joseph on the "Heads" side (Kaiser of Austria; Kaiser of Bohemia - etc; Kaiser of Hungary). So did his kids or managers or whomever, after his death, start playing games with history? Oh well, people get jobs by faking their resumes these days.....nothing's changed.

If anyone has that label, what does a magnifying glass say? Was there another Vienna exposition in the 1880's by chance? Thanks.

Official 1873 Vienna Exposition catalog - list of UK gunmakers exhibiting:


Here is the 1889 Universelle catalog entry for Alex. Henry with the medal (with the "tails" side showing the medal for excellence in manufacture). Henry was at Vienna!

Do any Reilly records survive?
No...The company went bankrupt in 1912. The name was subsequently bought. I think this line is the best one can find...IMHO...unless Sally has something. That "New Short History" on P.17 is darned good and about all a gun owner-collector needs to know about the company (compare it to what was being put out by auction houses and even in prestigious magazines and journals recently). And the list of dates/SN's also on P. 17 is about as accurate as can be possible..until more evidence - guns. labels, ads - appears..

This started out as a lark 3 years ago when I bought my double. I've spent a lot of time in the middle of no-where since then and had nothing else to do but research the gun. And I modestly feel it has brought the name of a prominent British gun-maker out of the shadows.

=================================================== ========================================
1922 - Riggs advertises the acquisition of Reilly


More bits: Charles Riggs bought Reilly's name allegedly (per the internet) in 1917. I've never confirmed that date. However, it looks like he didn't actually start using it until August 1922. (if he bought it in 1917, why not use it then?). Doesn't really matter because those Riggs-Reillys are not Reillys. But here is the first ad - by the end of 1922, a mere five months later, Riggs' ads featuring the Reilly name tailed off.

..........18 Aug 1922 "Chelmsford Chronicle" (Riggs did not advertise in big London papers like Reilly did in his hey-day.)


By the end of 1922, the headline of "Reilly" by Charles Riggs had dwindled and disappeared in ads by the end of the year

..........17 Nov 1922, "Chelmsford Chronicle"


It looks like that"1924" catalog...actually advertises a 1922 sale because of the wording of the announcement:



Here are the Riggs "Reilly"'s found so for - These are not "Reilly"'s - in the "New Short History" I've speculated that they are built by BSA...only because Riggs had a long relationship with BSA selling their guns and motorcycles; one of these was for sale in America not long ago for a good bit of money - they make 200-400 Ł in UK.

134183 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16ga. SxS shotgun. BLNE
136535 - E.M. Reilly..not mentioned. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE.
138279 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 20bore Shotgun SxS. BLE
140415 - E.M. Reilly of London. 16bore shotgun SxS. 30" steel barrels
140451 - E.M. Reilly, London. 16bore Shotgun SxS. (Charles Riggs, post 1917)
144939 - E.M. Reilly, London, 12 bore Shotgun SxS BLNE. 28 barrels.
146242 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London; 12bore. Top lever hammer gun. Pistol grip stock.
150570 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock non-ejector.
============================================ ===================================
1860 - 1898 - Mainline Reilly label 315 (277) and 502 (16)


I mentioned above that it looks like when 315 Oxford Street opened (Armoury House), Reilly had two different labels for his cases:

-- This allegedly is a reproduction of the Armoury House label. It has "Fusils a Bascule" on it...principle establishment at 502 New Oxford Street, etc. It was possibly used from Jan 1859 when 315 opened until Summer 1860 when the classic "E.M. Reilly & Co"; "Gun Manufacturers" appeared.


-- From Jan 1859 to Fall 1859, the main-line label would have continued to be the traditional one with "Reilly, Gun Maker," "Fusils a Bascule," the drawing of 502 New Oxford Street, and the 1851 and 1855 medals.


-- This label with the 502 New Oxford Street building but without "Fusils a Bascule" and with E.M REILLY, GUN MAKER, and the 1851 and 1855 World's Fair medals featured on the traditional Reilly label from 1855-59 may have been used as the main-line Reilly label from Fall 1859 until "Gun Manufacturers" appeared in August 1860.


This dichotomy in labels with different labels for 315 and 502 may have lasted from January 1859 to Summer 1860 and the arrival of the classic E.M. Reilly & Co. label:

From summer of 1860 to 1898, 502 New Oxford Street (later 16) had this principle label...with variations. E.M REILLY & Co., Gun Manufacturers. The 1867 medals mostly disappeared after the fall of Napoleon III Sep 1870. Sometimes the label had 315 as a "branch establishment," sometimes with both 315 and 2 rue Sribe, sometimes with only 2 rue scribe. But always with the scroll work below the bottom tier of writing and usually with a double lined border and usually with scolloped corners. These labels are from guns with original cases which I've dated to the early 1860's, 70's, 80's and there is one possibly in the 90's (not pictured because the picture of the label is so tiny).



From the limited number of labels I've collected after about Fall 1860, 315 (later 277) doesn't appear again on its own on a label until about 1876. After 1876 the layout of the 315 label was very similar to the 502 label above, except that there is no scroll work below the bottom level of print and no double lined internal border.



In addition 315 appears to have had a special label for revolvers in the early 1880's - here are two examples:



There were some other variants...with "Gun & Rifle Manufactures" and on a couple of them mention of royalty....I've pictured them already but it looks like the above were the mainstream Reilly labels after summer 1860 until the 1898 "4 medal" label appeared.

c1876 - 1868 medals & King of Portugal.......c1884 - the three Kings...................c1892 - re-labeled after the gun was redone


This doesn't prove much...it may help if you see a gun that doesn't have a SN displayed or something....but just interesting for the historian...and if you're buying a reproduction, get the one with the scolloped corners...oh wait...they aren't offered.....Yet.
My EM Reilly 17552 Click on the link for an album on my google pics.

Can anyone tell me how to embed my google pics here? I can embed them on other forums but not here.

EM Reilly 17552 pics

[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sj54OK...RA=w438-h328-no[/img]
==================================================================================
17552 (1872)


You'll have to use a photo hosting site. I use http://jpgbox.com/submit.html. It's free. Create an account and it's easy to use. 1) select the picture from your desk top; 2) upload it. 3) select the resolution. 4) copy the link and post.

Others used Imgur, and there are a couple of other sites as well. Dave was going to look at hosting images here at one point because of the photobucket scam that resulted in a great deal of history being squirrellel away for ransom.

I'll post the photos for Reb....Reilly underlever hammer gun shotgun. 13 bore? (looks bigger than that!). SN 17552 (numbered during the first quarter of 1872 per the chart above) with E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London on the rib - and what a neat looking shotgun. What shells do you use in it? I see two London proof marks that were around since the 1600's...assume this is Black Powder proof, and it looks like it hasn't been re-proofed. Edit: Originally a pin-fire...

[/URL

[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/54831_583x768/]














Thanks for fixing my pics and thanks for all the great info you've collected. I shoot RST 12ga thru this gun. It is one of my favorite guns with awesome tall hammers that are easily cocked with one hand on a flush. It has an unfortunate poorly executed (cosmetically) repair to the wrist of the stock that I need to address someday but it remains as solid as the day I bought it many years ago.
Reb, I'm surprised you're still around....why you've been shooting modern powders out of a black-powder gun with Damascus barrels. If you read the Damascus barrel line, those barrels should be exploding like a grenade multiple times and we should all be dead... or something. smile. I shoot the same shells in my Damascus barreled gun....(though it's 25 years more modern).
That’s a great looking gun. Wonderful hammers!
This was the list of extant guns with serial numbers in a dated formate. Unfortunately this post has become corrupted. As this is a working document. I'll try to repost it.
===========================================================================================
1857 - JC Reilly's Swan Song


In the JC "7000" series, the last two extant guns were 8025 and 8052 (both probably 1857 shortly before he retired; both had Ceasar's dictum, "Veni, Vidi, Vici"...which may be JC's swan song. Here is that inscription on Terry Buffum's 8025.

===========================================================================================
1912-1918 - Reilly at Marylebone


I've pretty well finished up this story - the intention being to date the serial numbers of Reilly guns. The twisting and turnings of the name of the company from JC's retirement in Sep 1857, the opening of 315 Oxford Street, "Reilly's Armoury House," in January 1859, to the advent of the name "E.M. Reilly & Co.", in Sep 1859, and the subsequent switch from "Gun Maker" to "Gun Manufacturer" in Summer 1860 has been addressed.

There was one thing bothering me though and it has nothing to do with Reilly SN's; that is the fate of the name after the bankruptcy of the company in June 1912 (detailed above) and the opening of 13 High Street, Marylebone.

. . . . . . . 13 High Street, Marylebone today (a small shop)


Per the following records, that shop did exist as "E.M. Reilly & Co., gunmakers" for several years.

. . . . . . .1912 London Telephone Directory - Reilly still at 295 Oxford Street - still Gun & Rifle Manufacturers



. . . . . . .1915 London Postal Directory - E.M Reilly, "gunmaker" noted at 13 High Street



The company disappeared from the London telephone directories in 1919 per below.

..........1918 Telephone Directory with EM Reilly . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1919 Tel Directory without EM Reilly


..........1921 London Postal Directory - likewise had no entry for Reilly at 13 High Street, Marylebone.


John Cambell in his article on Reilly in DGJ , Summer 2015 wrote that he had seen E.M. Reilly & Co. mentioned in the 1921 "Hughes London Business Directory." I haven't been able to access Hughes yet.....it looks to me as if the company disappeared in 1918 (before the publication of the 1919 phone directory) but we'll assume that the entry exists; (Hughes was a long lead time publication so if John is right, the shop would have still been at 13 High Street in 1920, but without a telephone and Hughes would have been typeset before the 1921 Postal Directory. Strange - I'll try to get access to that issue of Hughes to confirm; I've got to mention though that that article - like every article about Reilly found so far - had a number of errors of fact in it..not a criticism of John but rather a simple statement of fact on where general understanding of Reilly history was at the time):


The above makes the post bankruptcy history of Reilly easier to understand...
-- Dec 1911 EM Reilly & Co. changed to a limited liability company with the bankruptcy lawyer GW Roberts as a "partner," presumably to protect some assets from the pending bankruptcy;
-- Spring 1912 they advertised 295 Oxford St. as a "freehold" for sale in London newspapers;
-- 6-8 June, bankruptcy declared;
-- 1912 they moved to 13 High Street Marylebone;
-- in 1918 (or 1921) they closed it;
-- August 1922 Riggs bought the name and published it in his catalog. Therefore, following are the last three paragraphs of the "New Short History" as edited:

In 1903 the Company vacated 277 Oxford Street where they had been quartered for 44 years while the building was being renovated and moved 300 yards down the street to 295 Oxford Street. The company apparently was run by Herbert H. (Bert) Reilly and Charles A. Reilly, EM Reilly’s sons. The first extant gun with 295 Oxford Street on the rib is 35422. The company remained at 295 until bankruptcy was declared on 06 June 1912. The last extant gun with 295 on the rib is 36678.

Bert Reilly opened a small gun shop, E.M Reilly & Co., at 13 High Street, Marylebone in 1912 after the bankruptcy. No advertisements can be found for the shop though per London postal address, telephone and business directories they identified themselves as "gunmakers." No guns with this address on the rib have been found. The date of its closure is not noted although it is listed in London telephone directories up to 1919 and in business directories to 1921.

In August 1922 The Reilly name was bought by a sporting goods dealer named Charles Riggs (most Reilly history summaries put the date of purchase as 1917; this is belied by the dates of newspaper advertising). Riggs apparently decided he could use the name to promote his premium line of guns (possibly built by BSA). Whether a Reilly had any say in the design of these Riggs-Reilly guns is unknown.


I've mentioned in that edited short history above that I don't know if a Reilly was involved in the design of any of Rigg's Reilly-named guns. Surely a Reilly didn't make them and I don't count them as Reilly's. Yet one of the Reilly's must have gotten something from each gun sold with that name on it as royalties (who?) unless Riggs bought the name outright (from whom, when, for how much?), and there is a slight tinge of elegance in a pedestrian Riggs that might indicate some involvement by a Reilly initially in designing them. Riggs Reillys are regarded in the market now as journeyman guns. Lots of questions - but nothing at all to do with Reilly Serial Numbers and of no interest to this line.

SN 140415 - E.M. Reilly, London (by Charles Riggs)


I'll make two more Historical posts....a repost of the fully edited New History of Reilly, gunmaker...I think it's about as good as it's going to get and I have no interest in pursuing it further; .and of the current serial number chart. With that I'm done. The only thing that'll get me back on topic now are gun serial numbers that change something or new case labels. (I may post a couple of photos of EM from ancestry.com posted by Sally). I really think the serial number-date chart is darned good as it is now.

Of course this line will remain a great place for shooters to post pics of their Reilly's.
Thank you for this magnificent effort.

S. Nash
This is first class research. I do hope you get the chance to publish this in a book or booklet.

Regards

AlanD
Sydney
If Sally doesn't mind, here are two photos of E.M. Reilly she posted onto Ancestry.com. I assume they're in the public domain now but if there are copyright issues, I'll delete. This is just for history's sake. (Doubt that's an air-cane gun he's carrying..unless it's a .22).



Just for fun, what are the chances that the older bewhiskered top-hatted gentleman in the bottom of the picture of Oxford street in 1885 strolling near to 277, is Mr. EM Reilly? Would that be Mary next to him, his wife?
"A New Short History of Reilly" moved to P. 33,
Offer this short version for auction houses with limited space for a gun description:

============================ Short ========================

Joseph Charles Reilly, b1786, Ireland, moved to London to study law c1808. In 1814 he opened a jewelry shop at 12 Middle Row, Holborn Bars, next to the Inns of the Court where his clientele included barristers and country gentlemen. He began making guns in the 1820’s and by 1833 identified himself exclusively as “gun maker.” From the beginning he employed a consistent business model; Make a quality product, sell it for a moderate price; deliver it rapidly; and with this model he undercut better known gun makers.

In 1835 he moved to 316 High Holborn where in 1840 his 23 year old son Edward Michael joined him as a partner in the company. In March 1847 they moved to 502 New Oxford Street (renumbered “16” in 1881) where they remained for 50 years. The gun ribs were for the most part labeled “Reilly.” The company advertised as “Reilly, Gun Maker.”

In September 1857 JC Reilly retired in favor of EM. In January 1859 a branch was opened at 315 Oxford Street (renumbered 277 in 1881) and that autumn the company name was changed to E.M. Reilly & Co., a name which lasted on gun ribs and on trade labels and advertisements until 1919 and beyond. A branch was opened in Paris at 2 rue Scribe in 1868 after his triumphal exhibition at the 1867 Paris World’s Fair.

By 1880 Reilly was making twice as many bespoke hand-made guns as Purdey and Holland & Holland combined and his guns dominated UK pigeon shooting contests for 20 years. In August 1885 rue Scribe was closed and in 1890 EM Reilly died. In 1898 16 New Oxford street was closed.

In 1903 the company moved from 277 to 295 Oxford street where they remained until bankruptcy in June 1912. A small gun shop E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Maker, located at 13 High Street, Marylebone run by EM Reilly’s son, continued in business until 1918. In 1922 a sporting goods dealer Charles Riggs bought the name “E.M Reilly & Co.” and used it for many years on his guns.

The Reilly’s sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly’s serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1825 to 1912, all built by them. The guns that they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. They were one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was consistently classy. Reilly’s best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.

Per a well-researched chart dating Reilly SN’s, SN XXXXX was likely numbered circa XXXX.

============================ Shorter ========================

The Reilly’s, Joseph Charles (JC) Reilly (1786-1864), his son Edward Michael (EM) (1817-1890) and his EM’s sons Bert and Charles, made guns in London from the early 1820’s to 1918 working out of several address including in order:
— 1814-1835 - 12 Middle Row, Holborn Bars;
— 1835-1847 - 316 High Holborn;
— 1847-1898 - 502 (“16” after 1881) New Oxford Street;
— 1859-1903 - 315 (“277” after 1881) Oxford Street;
— 1868-1885 - a branch at 2 rue Scribe, Paris
— 1903-1912 - 295 Oxford Street
— 1912-1918 - 13 High Street, Marylebone
In 1922 the Reilly name was bought by sporting goods dealer Charles Riggs who used it for many years on his guns.

Reilly sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1825 to 1912, all built by them. The guns that they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. They were one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was consistently classy. Reilly’s best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.

Per a well-researched chart dating Reilly SN’s, SN XXXXX was likely numbered circa XXXX.

============================ Shorter ========================

Reilly (JC Reilly-1786-1864, his son EM-1817-1890 and after EM’s death the grandsons) made guns in London from the early 1820’s to 1918. For much of that time they were located on Oxford Street or its vicinity with a branch in Paris for 17 years 1868-85. Reilly’s sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1825 to 1912, all built by them. The guns they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. They were one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was consistently classy. Reilly’s best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.

Per a well-researched chart dating Reilly SN’s, SN XXXXX was likely numbered circa XXXX.

============================ Shortest ========================

Reilly (JC Reilly-1786-1864, his son EM-1817-1890 and after EM’s death the grandsons) made excellent quality guns in London from the early 1820’s to 1918. SN XXXXX was likely numbered circa XXXX
======================================================================================
1882-1886: 29 Rue du Faubourg, St. Honore revisited


In the above new history I have this sentence on the alleged Reilly shop at 29 rue du Faubourg, St. Honore, Paris: "Note: Allegedly at some point in the 1880’s Reilly opened a branch establishment at 29 Rue du Faubourg, St Honore. This has not been confirmed; no guns with this address on the rib have been found; the only advertisement with this address appeared in Jan 1886 touting a win by an Italian at a Monte Carlo pigeon shoot)."

I've added SN 22432 to the list, a SxS .577 (2 3/4" chambers) BPE rifle with rotary underlever. It has "E.M. REILLY & CO., 502 NEW OXFORD ST., LONDON" on the rib. It would have been serial numbered in circa late 1879 - early 1880.
http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/fullcatalogue.asp?salelot=A1214++++914+&refno=+++76477



Here is a blow-up of the label:





The label has the 1867 Paris medals. It has the address "16, New Oxford Street" and two branch addresses, "277 Oxford Street" and "29 rue du Faubourg, St. Honore, Paris." If the label were original with the case, this could be evidence that Reilly had a shop at this address. But the gun was made in very late 1879, the addresses on Oxford Street didn't change from 502 and 315 to 16 and 277 until November 1881. So either the label is not original with the gun, the gun was made then wasn't sold for a couple of years, or it was serial numbered when ordered but not delivered until after renumbering (normal practice). It does not have scolloped corners and may indeed be a later reproduction or addition.

As mentioned previously on p.18, rue du Faubourg, St. Honore was a prestigious location in the 1870's-80's with a prominent Brit ex-pat community. Reilly would not have kept it secret if he had a store there. Yet it is nowhere mentioned in advertisements. There may be a gun with that address on the rib if Seńor Guidicini's win at Monte Carlo advertisement in the late January 1886 London papers is authentic. Whatever, the 2 rue Scribe address never closed, even if a satellite location was opened for a time in Paris.

There is what looks to be from a very fuzzy photo, a very similar label on one of Cal Pappas' Reilly BPE's (Cal has owned 3 Reilly BPE's that I've seen on the web, but he doesn't post serial numbers or names/addresses on ribs in his ads or writing). It has the 1867 medals, is very squarish, has no scolloped corners, and what may be similar "branch establishments" which may include rue du Faubourg (can't make it out but the blurs seem similar with what looks to be Paris below the right branch address); Two BPE's with St. Honore, Paris? Wonder if that's where he sold his rifles (except for sure Seńor Guidicini wasn't shooting pigeons with a 450 BPE)? If anyone knows Cal, I'd much appreciate seeing a good photo of this label and also getting the SN's. Thanks.



Actually the label is posted here: http://www.calpappas.com/2014/12/double-rifle-1.html (almost at the bottom) and the picture was sent to Cal by Elliot Lee.

Addendum: I sent an email to Cal Pappas asking if he retained his records on Reilly double guns and whether he had additional info on Mr. Elliot Lee and his gun from above. He got back to me immediately. Unfortunately he had neither but his helpfulness was much appreciated.


Edit: I've added this paragraph to the Short history: "Note: In the early 1880's Reilly apparently opened a small satellite branch of 2 rue Scribe, Paris at 29 rue du Faubourg, St. Honore, Paris for a short time. A couple of gun case labels show the store would have been in existence after the November 1881 change in Oxford Street addresses but before the July 1885 closure of 2 rue Scribe. An advertisement with this address appeared in Jan 1886 touting a win by an Italian at a Monte Carlo pigeon shoot; whether the address was on the rib of his gun or on the trade/case label is unknown. No newspaper ads for this branch exist (and it was a prestigious location which should have been publicized). No extant guns have thus far been found with this address. The branch was apparently opened at a time when Reilly was building more than 1,000 serial numbered bespoke guns a year. "
Argo:

I recently acquired a Box Lock extractor double marked E. M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford St., London. Serial number 23536. It is nitro proved for 2 1/2" 1 1/8 oz loads at the London proofhouse. Barrels are 30". They have been reblued, but I cannot see any Damascus steel pattern under the new bluing so I presume they are fluid steel. The action is an A&D patent with use number 3814 so marked on the action flats. The action looks like a Westley Richards profile with simple border and plain finish, and even has their toplever and beefy early cocking dogs. But there is no maker's mark that I can find. Thought you might want to add it to your serial number list. If you want pictures, I can email them to you. The gun is a shooter, not a collector. Russ
======================================================================================
1881, November: 23536 - New SN marker for Oxford St. Address change date


Thanks Russ...gun has been added. I actually feel pretty good about date of SN's from say 1858 to 1904. Before 1858 there are so few that it's difficult to be sure and after the move to 295 Oxford street, they only made about 250 guns over 8 years. I don't think Reilly's are all that collectable; everybody here seems to shoot their guns and enjoy them.

Of course your SN 23536 together with the 277 Oxford Street address presents a problem for the chart. It is now the first extant SN'd Reilly with either 16 or 277 on the rib after Oxford St. was renumbered in November 1881. My chart as it is now would have your gun dated in middle of 1881. Now I'm going to have to go back and adjust some of the numbers and totals backwards. It'll mean a few fewer guns produced in the years leading up to 1881 and consequently even more guns made from 1882 to 1885. Thanks. This is the kind of info that really helps. Plus with the Anson and Deely patent use number, we'll get another "sanity check" marker which other A&D use numbers can reference.

Working on updating the chart. I do keep photos of every gun pictured on the chart so if you wouldn't mind sending me one by PM, would much appreciate it. Or better, since it is now a "Marker" serial number for dating Reilly's, could you post a photo here?

Gene Williams
Argo44, considering the Lindner - Daly APUNs, an APUN of 3814 would put if forward of 1881 I would say. Now, I wonder if each maker had their own APUN series or sequence? Does the subject A&D Body Action just have the lower scears?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Raimey, a question for the cognoscenti and beyond my abilities. Russ might be able to post some photos of said A&D patent use number. I think this is the line you're talking about? I'll need to read it carefully:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=484334&page=1

Actually...on the first page I sort of mentioned all the various patents that might be found in a Reilly during the 1870's, 80's in the hope that people would start looking inside their guns - it sure will help with dating.
All right, I just know we've expended quite a bit of time on the APUNs with regard to the Lindner - Daly A&D Body Actions.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Photos sent. Russ
SN charts, the one attached to the last New Reilly History and the one with the extant guns, have been updated to reflect the new first extant SN with 277 or 16 on the rib 23536. It required dialing back a few estimates in the 1870's and bumping up Reilly production 1882-85 to an astonishing 1050 serial numbered guns a year, a true factory production. 23536 as the chart now stands would have been serial numbered in mid-November 1881.

Of course these are educated estimates. The whole exercise was really designed to get a Reilly owner to within about 6 months of the date his gun might have been numbered. You can be more confident in the dates from about 1858-1903 than for the other periods because of the number of existing guns.

I'll be adding something about 29 rue du faubourg shortly but perhaps the huge output in the early 1880's might explain a satellite office in Paris, an off-shoot (not replacing) 2 rue Scribe.
I have heard that patent use numbers were sold in allotments to makers. Presuming this gun was made by someone else in the trade and retailed by EM Reilly, that could explain the higher use number. Of course, this is mere speculation on my part. Not sure we will ever know for certain who made the barreled action. But it does look like a Westley Richard's "gold name" action except for no third bite. Russ
Russ, Reilly's made their own guns as detailed extensively above (p.18). They did not serial number guns they did not build. They would engrave and market guns sold under license but these were not numbered. No doubt they imported barrel stocks and possibly actions from Birmingham - but the guns were finished, engraved, stocked in-house in London. Reilly also may have made guns for other makers...this was an assertion made by one author and Reilly ads do say "Retail and Wholesale." I've always assumed the "wholesale" part was sale of military rifles to the yeomanry militia, however.

1886 - reference to Kings of Portugal, Spain and Netherlands


1875 or thereabouts - notice the reference to the King of Portugal


1860 advertisement "A genealogy and Heraldry Dictionary of the British Empire" - Burke.
Thanks Gene. Good to know. Russ
======================================================================================
1881, November: 23536 - Photos

Pics of Russ's 23536, 1st extant gun with the renumbered Oxford Street Addresses:













================================================================
30363 - 30364
- (1889) - Anson & Deely Patent use 6250


I've records of a number of Reilly's using the A&D patent...this is the only one with an A&D number matched to a Reilly SN other than Russ's. So from Russ's 23536 - AD 3814 to this 30383 - AD 6250: Reilly made 6,850 odd guns. If the AD patent use numbers were maker specific... 2,420 odd of those Reillys would have used AD actions (about 40%).

https://www.theexplora.com/who-made-this...nd-ian-jackson/
The example we present here (SN 30363) is Number 1 of a pair. It is stamped on the action flats with Deeley’s Patent Ejector use number 428 and Anson and Deeley’s Patent use number 6250 for the box lock action.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a gun in Norway listed in the original SN list on P.3: Note that the A&D patents for this gun and the one above are only 13 numbers apart. I'm trying to contact the poster to ask for the SN. This gun and the one above also both have the Deeley ejector patent, this one is one number ahead of the above guns. https://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15506

Name: E.M REILLY & Co, 277 Oxford Street, London.
Description: Boxlock by EM Reilly. Built on a Westley Richards action with the WR patented top lever and dolls head. Lovely Damascus tubes. Nice wood. Scroll engraved. Ejector. Intercepting sears. Original black powder proof. Number 2 of a pair. Action flats marked “Deeley ejector patent 427” (1880?) and “Anson & Deeley patent 6265 (about 1889?). Now I'm wondering if this Norway gun is the number 2 of the 1st gun above....the Deely ejector patent use numbers are one digit apart.





------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, The above is very similar to this gun (no SN supplied but probably around 303xx)
http://www.hillrodandgun.com/archivepicture.php?id=12774
EM REILLY, LONDON, BLE, 2 3/4" sleeved, 28" choked Cyl/Mod. 14 5/8" moderately figured wood to black recoil pad. This Reilly is built on a Westley Richards action and is gun #2 of a pair. The action has gone grey, has London best fine sroll engraving, beaded fences and intercepting sears. 6lbs 14oz.



Extant gun date chart moved to p.33
Footnotes to Extant Gun Chronology moved to p.33
Gene,

The 2 WR actioned guns are interesting. I don't know if WR kept records on the patent use numbers. Unfortunately, the patent use numbers aren't shown on the #1 or #2 guns. It would be interesting to know if WR built and sold the guns to Reilly or just furnished the actions for Reilly to complete the guns.

Ken
Hey Ken, whether Reilly made his own guns has been an often asked question. This line addresses this, particularly on p.18, where there are a series of posted advertisements. The unmistakable conclusion is that Reilly indeed made his own guns in his two large buildings in London. He employed barrel borers, engravers, stockers, finishers; 300 persons per the 1880 census. He may have imported actions in the white from Birmingham but he did not serial number any gun he did not make. I can give a dozen examples (most posted above) but this advertisement from 1861 pretty well sums up the whole lot.

He could not offer gentlemen into his factories in London at 502 (16) New Oxford Street or 315 (277) Oxford Street to "superintend the progress of their orders" if he weren't making the guns there.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .April 14, 1861, "Bell's Life


Reilly did sell other's guns, Trantor, Adams, Colt, Remington, Sharps, etc, and he engraved them and put his names on them....but not a Serial Number.

I am going to be adding patents and use numbers to the above list as they are found.
Ken, you asked if Reilly sold complete Westley-Richards. Here are a couple of advertisements which indicate he did:

. . . 1871 Black's Cornwall Guide. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Portion of) 1882 Bradshaw Guide to GB and Ireland.


The 1871 ad must be mid 1871 just before or right after the gun was officially adopted because Reilly is advertising "Henry-Martini". The Martini-Henry was adopted officially in Summer 1871 and the first Reilly newspaper ad for "Martini-Henry"'s for sale I've found is November 1871...I've dated SN 17314, the only serial number Reilly Martini I've found, at Jan 1872.

You'll notice both ads mention several different type of guns he was selling. Now it can get tricky. For instance, he numbered a few Sniders...but if he did not build the gun, he didn't number it. I've only found one serial numbered Martini-Henry SN 17314 (very early) because the Enfield factory insisted on sending over all the parts for assembly when one was ordered (and there are a lot of Reilly Martini's in various calibers around) Etc. Thus I think he did both with Westley Richards - he sold complete guns (not serial numbered); and he sold his own guns based on the WR action (serial numbered).

As for the three SN 303xx Reilly guns with WR actions above, I feel confident in saying he built these - there is an unmistakable balance and look to them.
After an educational exchange with knowledgeable contributors to this board such as LeFusil, I understand that while there is prima facie evidence that Reilly made guns at both his Oxford Street addresses from 1847 to 1912, there would be interest in running this down further. Here is what I'm working on:

1) What happened to Reilly's gun making machines, lathes, barrel borers, engraving tools, etc. A lot of the guns at the time are hand made but he needed the big machines too, if he were building complete actions from scrap rather than buying them under patent, especially since he was stamping "Reilly" onto specific parts of actions.

...a. I'll start looking to see what was sold when Reilly declared bankruptcy on 06 Jun 1912. The liquidator G. Watkinson Roberts might have published a list of items somewhere.



However, there are two factors which might effect the bankruptcy sale:

-- Reilly closed 16 New Oxford Street in 1898 and I speculated at that time sold the workshop there...part of downsizing due to dramatically decreasing orders. When they moved they must have sold the equipment there. I do not know who was running the company at the time. Will search the London papers for sales of gun making items from that year.

-- They moved from 277 (location of the shooting gallery) to 295 in 1903. Bert Reilly, now 26 years old, was the manager. They also must have had to sell equipment for the move. 295 was considerably smaller; they only serial numbered about another 250 guns in the 9 years after they closed 277 before bankruptcy. So again machines at 277 must have been sold off.
. . . .-- I'll see if I can dig up some sales data from that building as well. I do know from labels in cases, etc., that they did do maintenance work on older Reilly's while at 295....one gun re-barreled - other serial numbered guns from the 1880's-90's came up with crossed out 277 addresses on the cases.

In addition, I'm trying to determine who worked for Reilly I have the names of two shop managers, one from 1861 and one from 1895. I'll be looking at British census data to see if anyone in that area of London actually identified themselves as a Reilly employee (at the time you were only obligated to give "occupation.")

1861 - John Baker who took out a patent for Reilly: - there are a lot of John Bakers in London including one gun maker wh 20 years later was up in Birmingham.


1895 - James Curtis, who testified at a trial involving an Irish terrorist who may have bought a revolver from Reilly.
13 Sep 1895 "Kilburn Times"


There are some others but only identified by last name. Research continues.
Hello, I am very new to all this, but also very interested. I have a thread here on this forum titled "S.R. Jeffery Guildford". I have pictures of a shotgun I have and I am wondering if it might have been built by E M Reilly? I can try to post pictures here if that is the correct way of doing it if you like, but if it is not, I do not want to clutter up this post. Please have a look, if you would, and direct me on what you think from there. I have more pictures than what I have posted, or if you would like a specific photo, just let me know. Thank you very much and sorry if this was a waste of time.
Answered in this line: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=534487#Post534487
Thank you for your information and time. I have answered your question in the other post.
Has any proof ever been found that Reilly made his own guns or was he just another gun farmer ?
The best of British shotguns were frequently made by commissioning the best outworkers on a bought in action and tubes.
I still haven't seen any proof that Reilly actually built guns jOe.

We have photos of workers filing actiions, stocking, and barreling guns at H&H, Purdey, Hunter Arms, Parker Bros., Lefever, etc. We have pictures of their factories. We have old newspaper accounts of new building being bought, machinery being purchased, and even accounts of fires or floor collapses that disrupted production.



It seems Reilly was in the same category of Charles Daly, and built few, if any guns himself.

By the way, did you notice that the "Decline of DGS" thread got locked? I wonder who cried to Dave this time?

Decline of DGS
Hey Frank, Let me summarize this line and where we're at in a sort of argument, counter-argument style.

1). Hypothesis: Reilly made guns in London for 90 years; Any gun with a Reilly SN was made by him.
-- During the 19th century, Reilly guns were mentioned in dozens of articles, were used by champion pigeon shooters and well known explorers and big-game hunters, were given as gifts to foreign dignitaries by the British Royal family, were given to royalty abroad.
-- He was active in all the London shooting circles, sold thousands of guns, and serial numbered some 33 thousand of them.
-- He published where he made the guns, let people who were buying them look at the progress of his gun.
-- He had manufacturing rights to Green Brothers patent breech loaders and Complain breech loaders.
Not once in all that time period, in the whole 19th century, did anyone in England ever say he did not make his own guns.

2). Counter: Nope Reilly didn't make any guns at all: Where did the story that he did not build guns come from? As close as I can figure it originated in the late 20th century and has since been repeated over and over again until it became "truth" or "established knowledge' or "urban legend" or maybe "old wives tale." Perhaps it originated with the Riggs-"Reilly's" which decidedly were not Reilly's and were built in Birmingham? Here is the evidence usually cited for Reilly not making guns:
...a) No one ever wrote about visiting his workshops.
...b) There are no photos of the workshops.
...c) His guns look like Scott, or Westley Richards, or Purdey, or H&H or something.
...d) No one can name a person or a foreman who worked for Reilly.
...e) He had no gun patents other than patents for shells.
...f) He had to have had extensive testing facilities and shooting ranges.

Here are some refutations to para 2 above: Starting with our own respected LeFusil, who has written that he has proof Reilly made muzzle loaders and pin fires.

3) History: The same "experts" who have maintained Reilly did not make guns, also have published widely repeated "histories" of the firm." Our own respected LeFusil in a post on Reilly repeated the mantra that Reilly closed rue Scribe in 1872. Where did Lefusil hear that? These histories have been decisively proven in the above line to be wrong. There is an entire post above which replays various versions of Reilly history put out by Brown, written by highly respected authors such as Terry Weiland, and others including very well known auction houses. No-one here has challenged the above re-write of the history of the Reilly company. So, the "experts" can be wrong about the history of Reilly but they have to be right about his making guns?

4) SN Chronology: The above has recreated a chronology of Reilly Serial Numbers. So far no-one has challenged the date chart of serial numbers I've put together. If anyone wants to do so, please post your objections...this can only benefit the research.

5) Serial Number and Non-serial numbered Reilly's: As detailed above he made and sold both serial numbered and non-serial numbered guns with his name on them. I'm referring to long guns, not pistols though early on he made pistols as well. It is a fact detailed above that there is not one Reilly serial numbered gun with a Birmingham proof. There are Reilly long guns with Birmingham proofs - no serial number.

5). Patents: The fact that Reilly took out no gun patents is a non-starter as an argument he didn't make guns. He made guns under license using others patents.

6). Employees: Reilly was an important company in the 1850's-80's. EM himself told the 1881 census taker he employed 300 persons. The "experts" have tried to explain this away - they have tried to bend that statement to mean - "he must be referring to all the people he might have employed had he actually made guns." That is a "let's put the toothpaste back in the tube" sort of statement trying to square it with the original précis that he didn't make his own guns. The Employment records are lost. Only a couple of persons can be identified; but there is on-going research on the subject.

7). Workshops: Outside photos of his two large buildings at 16 New Oxford Street and 277 Oxford Street have been posted above. The photos clearly show they had more than enough size to house extensive workshops. Search for other photos are on-going. But the fact interior photos of the workshop can't be found doesn't mean the workshop didn't exist. Reilly sold thousands of guns. Yet there is not one photo of his retail sales stores.... So the retail sales stores didn't exist either?

8) Testing facilities: Reilly had two ranges, a 300 yard range outside of London and a 50 yard range at 277 Oxford Street. These ranges were so well publicized that if they didn't exist, one of the newspapers or magazines such as "Field" would have commented on it.

Nothing in the above empirically proves Reilly made his own guns; nothing in the counter-argument can establish that he did not. But if you look at the overwhelming circumstantial evidence, you'll have to say that until proven otherwise, a serial numbered Reilly was made by the Reilly firm in London.

Here's what I'll be doing to further research this:
-- I'll be looking at census records from 1840-80 in the Oxford street area to see if someone might have identified his employer as "Reilly." The citizens were only required to give their occupation.
-- I've detailed the problem with the 1912 bankruptcy records. I will look further. I'll also search journals and newspapers for possible sales of gun making equipment in 1898 when he closed 16 New Oxford Street and in 1903 when he down-sized from 277 Oxford Street.
-- And I'll continue to look for photos of the Oxford Street area and of those two buildings in particular.

Now I feel it's time for those who have doubts about anything that has been published in this line, or that is written in the "New History" above, to put them in print here and let's discuss it, and how the doubts can be resolved. I would particularly like to hear from the UK knowledgable posters - Reilly was a London gun making company and this is UK history. As I mentioned in the New History of Reilly....I feel at this point I can defend ever word written. There is still a lot of work to do. But what it clear is that what was written about Reilly over the past 50 years - has now been shown to be erroneous.
Keith that's what happens when people makes threads about the declining of the DGF...kind of like the guy running around hollering the sky is falling all the time...

First that thread declines then it spills over into other threads (like this then they decline)...before you know it the sky has fallen on the decliners head.

The way I see it if the people would stop making these declining threads trying to decline this great board then the missery wouldn't be so catching in other threads.

My best diagnosis is that declining threads posts are like'n to a bad venereal virus...
Here is another of these kind of rough old Reilly guns :https://www.theexplora.com/e-m-reilly-co-royal-presentation-combination-gun/
300846, That gun has been sent to me by a number of people including a couple of very prominent gun writers. It is a bar-in-wood 12 bore side lever with two sets of black powder proofed barrels - Shotgun and rifle. The SN is 25161.

Here's the problem. 25161 would have been serial numbered in Mid 1883 according to my chart. The case, however, shows is was a prize given by the King of Spain in 1880. Here is the mention of the provenance from the original advertisement:

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...4&saletype=
Estimate Ł15,000-20,000

.."We are kindly informed by the vendor that the gun has been in the
..possession of the family since it was purchased by his Great Grandfather,
..Mr Juan Agudo Valero in the 1880's.

.."His livestock business brought him into social circles of all levels, from
..contact with Royalty to a long lasting friendship with Manuel Mejis, a top
..bullfighter popularly called 'The Black Pope' and even extending to a friendship
..with Juan Camargo Gomez - a notorious bandit, known as 'TheVivillo' (to whom
..Juan sent emergency funds when forced to flee to Argentina to escape arrest)

"The gun was commissioned by King Alphonso XII and gifted as a prize for a
..'Throw' shooting competition (Live Pigeon match) by the King in 1880. Family
..tradition has it that the gun was won by an auspicious military man who was did
..not hunt or shoot as a pastime; the prize was bought from him by Juan - perhaps
..as a future gift for a person of influence. However, the gift was never realised and
..the gun has been passed down through the family ever since."


Well, something happened along the way from order to delivery and the story above sure seems odd. Perhaps the gun was ordered in 1880 and not delivered until 1883? Perhaps the original gun was stolen and was replaced by Reilly? Whatever it is a beautiful gun and worth taking a look at. (Ted, I know it has gold on it...but still it's not bad smile. ).









The gun is serial numbered; i.e. according to my hypothesis, that means Reilly built it.
Following will begin to lay out circumstantial evidence that Reilly made guns. I've accumulated hundreds of documents. But for starters, here is the year 1864 and the Reilly manufacture of Green Brothers breech loaders. this was mentioned in a post on page 12 above - no one seems to have read it so this is a repeat going into more detail (there's more but this should suffice to make a point).

===========================================================================================
1864 - Reilly manufactures the Green Bros Breech-loader


Reilly had been heavily involved in promoting breech loaders since 1851 London Crystal Palace World's Fair. In 1855 after the 1855 Paris Universelle, his labels changed to advertise both "Fusils a Bascule" (French for center-break guns) on the Lefaucheaux principal) and "Improved breech loaders."

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

There was more to this than just saying, "ok, now we're going to make breech loaders." Here part of the obituary of William Blanch, who was connected to JC and EM Reilly for many years, which explains who were the pioneers in UK for center break guns, and what were the problems they faced.

"But he had the more arduous task of teaching this men how to make the new gun. The barrel maker had to be instructed how to make the lump instead of the screw breech-plug. The percussionier had to be broken in to the task of making actions on Lefaucheaux's system. Everything was new..."

(By the way, the Blanch records were lost to a Zepplin bomb raid).

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Reilly was among the group of English gun makers who urged Ordinance to reopen the trials for the Prince breech-loader in 1858-59 and was one of several manufacturers who were authorized to produce the Prince breech loader (two Prince breech loaders manufactured and serial numbered by Reilly exist - see chart).

In Feb 1862 the Green Brothers, who had been in partnership with Prince - partnership dissolved in 1859 - took out a patent for a new breech loader. EM Reilly, who had a relationship with the Green Brothers obtained manufacturing rights to the Green Brothers breech loader. Ordinance was inching towards a trial for a replacement for the .577 Enfield rifle-musket muzzle-loader as arguments raged about the pros and cons of breech-loaders vs. muzzle-loaders in the London Press.. The Prussian invasion of Denmark on 1 Feb 1864 and the astonishing initial success of the Prussian Dreyse needle gun, forced Ordinance's hand with pressure also being applied by the English press and UK gun makers.

Reilly began manufacturing Green Brothers breech loaders in Jan-March 1864. Here is one of the very first....use #23, manufactured by Reilly and serial numbered 13333, on the gun is E.M Reilly & Co., 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Here are a few of the articles in the English press about the Green Bros invention and Reilly's manufacture of the gun which began in early 1864:

1). Volunteer Services Gazette, of 12 March 1864:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

2). 04 April 1864, London Daily News:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

3). 28 Jul 1864, Morning Post - a report on the beginning of breech loading trials...and first mention of the Snider, which wound up beating out the Green Bros and Reilly for the contract as UK's interim breech loader:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

4). Here are a couple of the hundreds of Reilly ads run during 1864...he was not shy in promoting this gun...millions of pounds in government contracts were at stake. And you see again the consistent promotion of his testing facility at 315 Oxford Street.

London Daily News, 24 April 1864
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
London Daily News, 26 Nov 1864

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
===========================================================================================
1864 - Reilly manufactures the Green Bros Breech-loader (continued)


Reilly continued for several years as "Sole Manufacturer" of Green Bros Breech loaders:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1865 Bradshasw. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Jul 1866 - Proceedings of the Royal Court


Well...what happened? Jacob Snider (an American) won the competition (and died a pauper-never receiving a nickel - uhhh shilling - from the Ordinance); The famous Snider-Enfield was formally adopted in 1866 even as bids were solicited for a new breech-loader with a small caliber, faster muzzle-velocity gun). Reilly continued to make Green Brothers breech loaders...there is one use number 159, SN 13884 (mid 1865) but after the adoption of the Snider, I can't find any more guns which are serial numbered. Here is one made about 1870, Patent use number 3116...Reilly on the rib - but no mention of SN.


I speculate that he must have shifted manufacture of the Green Brothers breech loaders to Birmingham after loss of the contract. Why? From 1864 to 1870 I calculate in the above chart that he Serial Numbered a little more than 3,000 guns. The above use numbers for Green Bros patent (23 in 1864 and 156 in 1865 to 3116 in about 1870) indicate that in this time period he manufactured over 3,000 Green Brothers breech loaders. It is impossible that he serial numbered more than a few of these in the first couple of years of production.

Likewise, the Reilly Comblain breech loader also went to Birmingham I assume - I haven't found a single Comblain-Reilly with a Reilly SN. This is discussed on p.12 as well but I'll make a separate post to drive home the point.

One could argue that the London press and gun manufacturing experts who received the Green Bros Breech loader from Reilly for testing had the wool pulled over their eyes. Or this noted professor might have just been fudging in his lecture as he discussed Green Brothers (Reilly & Co.) breech loader. Somehow....that doesn't seem plausible.

. . . . . . . . . . 25 July 1866, Morning Advertiser


Please read the whole line before commenting off the cuff...I'll be posting more on the subject.
===========================================================================================
1868 Reilly Comblain, Reilly sole manufacturers in UK:



Again this was covered on P.12. However, in view of questions about Reilly's manufacturing ability, acumen and practice, this will be posted again to drive the point home - Reilly was not your ordinary "retailer":

The 1866 Snider Enfield was regarded by the British Army only as a stop-gap until a fully dedicated breech loader could be developed and adopted. In 1867 Ordinance put out the call for a breech loader design - Ordinance had found the .577 bullet went sub-sonic at about 400 meters and was interested in a smaller caliber round with a faster muzzle velocity (see the post on the Martini Henry on p.12):

In 1867 the Belgian firm Comblain took out a patent on a breech loader. The patent presented as "Reilly-Comblain," was described in “The Engineer” of May 15, 1868 on page 347. https://books.google.com/books?id=2E5HAQ...fle&f=false



Reilly went into partnership with Comblain to try to market it to the Ordinance. The bid didn’t progress very far. Apparently the Army felt it was too similar to the Snider. The Comblain breech loader was adopted by Belgium and for 30 years by the Brazilian army. However, Reilly became the “sole manufacturers” of Comblain’s in Britain and his name is on at least seven of them that are extant.

. . . . . . . . . . 1969 Bradshaw . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1968 Black's Guide
Note Paris medals, appearance of the new branch at rue Scribe, Paris, addition in 1969 of "suppliers to the Emperor" to the advertisements:


Most Reilly-Comblains have only the London address-it was a British army trials after all and having a Frenchy address would not have been a plus; however one trials gun has “Paris” stamped on the butt plate. Some of the below guns were proofed in Belgium; none of them have a Reilly Serial Number on them; I don't know how many were manufactured in UK. Thus, I've concluded they were not made by The Reilly workshops in London. Some of the examples below have “E.M.Reilly & Co., Sole Manufacturers, New Oxford St London just ahead of the breech; The patent use numbers range from 25 to 5298 - and that's a lot of guns being marketed and sold by Reilly.

Patent use #25. .577 Snider, 20 1/2" barrel. The top of the action is engraved "H. HOLLAND / 98 NEW BOND ST. / LONDON", the lockplate is engraved simply "H. HOLLAND" and the breechblock is marked "REILLY-COMBLAIN / PATENT NO. / 125". A brass plaque affixed to the bottom of the stock beneath action is beautifully engraved "Reilly / Comblain / Patent / No. 25”. (I cannot explain how H&H made this gun - perhaps it was before Reilly became "sole manufacturer).





Patent use #32. .577 Reilly-Comblain rifle, serial no. 32. Blued 30in barrel, block and blade fore-sight, ladder rear-sight, the nocksform signed 'E.M. REILLY & Co. RIFLE MANUFACTURERS, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON', lift up lever with horizontal bolt handle mounted to the right hand side lifting and drawing out the breech-block, the block signed 'REILLY-COMBLAIN PATENT No. 32', plain colour-hardened lock signed 'E.M. REILLY & Co. LONDON’.



Patent use #???. This rifle is stamped on the barrel ahead of the breach E.M.Reilly & Co Sole Manufacturers New Oxford St., London on the lock plate E.M.Reilly & Co. London. Caliber is .577.



Patent use #5048: Reilly Comblain rifle; 30”, barrel with Birmingham proofs "25", sabre bayonet lug and typical period Enfield sights; 5-groove rifling like the 1860 or '61 Short Rifles. Chambered for the .577 Snider round. Receiver ring stamped "E.M.REILLY & Co / SOLE MANUFACTURERS / NEW OXFORD STREET / LONDON" . Breechblock stamped "REILLY-COMBLAIN / PATENT No 5048". Butt is marked with a large 3" ink stamp "PATENTED BY E.M. REILLY & Co., LONDON & PARIS".



Patent Use #5298. Fusil d'infanterie ŕ percussion centrale, modčle E. M. Reilly ; calibre 14,8 mm ; canon poli blanc, poinçonné et signé : "E. M. Reilly & C° Sole Manufacturers new Oxford Street London" ; culasse marquée : "Reilly Comblain patent n° 5298" ; platine avant polie blanc, marquée : "E M Reilly & C° London”. (Poli Blanc = carbon steel).

I've been asked some questions about the above; to clarify, here are the points I'm trying to make with these posts:
1) Reilly had an intimate knowledge of the gun making business and extensive contacts in Europe, London and Birmingham.
2) He was not confined to trying to "eek out" an existence by selling bespoke guns. He had numerous and extensive lines of revenue coming into the company; in other words he was not just a gun retailer and repairer; He was an entrepreneur and a force in the gun making world at the time running a large company.
3) He put his name on a lot of guns sold under license, made for him under license, sold as retail, sold as wholesale. He did not claim he made these guns. Reilly's name and engravingcan be found on the following guns he retailed, which have no Reilly SN:
Adams . . . . . . . . . Winchester . . . . . . Lee Speed
Trantor . . . . . . . . . Sharps . . . . . . . . . Snider Enfield
Colt . . . . . . . . . . . Martini-Henry. . . . Westley Richards
Walker Bulldog . . . . Enfield . . . . . .
And various muzzle and breech loaders with no make name other than Reilly and no SN, proofed in Birmingham plus all the rook-rifles he sold.

4) But - the important surmise: He only serial numbered guns he made in his workshops in London: (and this included some Enfields, Green Bros Breech loaders, Snider Infields, and one Martini Henry)
5) These guns will have London proofs.

To try to explain the Reilly numbering system otherwise does not make sense. I've addressed this several times in this line and put it in the "New Short History," but it doesn't hurt to restate the hypothesis, where we are, and what the objective of continued research is.

The history of the company has been reestablished; the serial number chronology seems pretty solid at the moment, pending appearance of additional guns; the item still being nailed down is the in-house manufacturing of Reilly Serial Numbered guns - what was made, what was bought, what was farmed-out and who were the shop foremen and workers.

And, I'd like to restate - when you look at Reilly guns as a whole - and there are a lot posted above and still active links to dozens more, there seems to be a unity to them in looks, balance, artistic design, engraving, lines - which made me conclude that he designed the guns and put them together in London - whether he bought actions or barrel blanks in the white or not,.
=============================================================================
Reilly's Ranges


Questions have been asked about Reilly's ranges and testing facilities. These are addressed above but more needs to be said:

1). Reilly had a 50 yard indoor range at 315 (277) Oxford street. This was advertised regularly over the space of 40 years from the time Reilly first occupied the building in January 1859. Here is an example but there are dozens:

. . . . . . . . 1862 London International Exposition Catalog


2). However, Reilly also had a 300 yard range somewhere close to his buildings on Oxford Street. This was first mentioned in 1851:

. . . . . . . . . . .1851 London Crystal Palace Exposition Advertisement


The 300 yard range continued to be advertised up to at least the mid-1880's:

. . . . . . . . . . . . .1882 "Modern Sportsman" - but other ads continued until 1886. (Note mention of the "Hurlingham weight" - Hurlingham, the principle pigeon shooting club, limited pigeon guns to 7lbs 8oz beginning 1883)


I wondered where might this range be and speculated it might have been in Bedfordshire at J.C.'s old country estate. But that seemed some distance to travel to test fire a gun. Then I found this advertisement:

. . . . . . . . . . .02 October 1875, "Illustrated Sporting News"


Wood-Lane, Shepards Bush was open country for years:

. . . . . . . . . .1841


It began to be built up when the Wood Lane station was opened in 1863. I can't find where Reilly owned land there but it's entirely possible. And there is a history of rifle ranges being in the area - check out this one:

"A gunmaker of Bond Street owned a shooting range provided with an iron stag which ran backwards and forwards on rails. Purchasers would test their guns on this stag..".

Since this was written at a later date, I wonder if the "Bond Street gunmaker" was really Reilly - and whether they got the date it was abandoned wrong.



In 1879 the military took over Wormwood Scrubs just off Wood Lane just north of Shepards Bush. They had ranges there but were forbidden to build structures other than the range bunkers. Sometime in the 1890's the maneuver area was guaranteed to remain open to the citizens of the neighborhood.




I'll be adding to this .....looking at property records, etc. but if any Londoners know something about the area local knowledge would be appreciated.

Print of Shooting at Shepard's Bush, 1867 - obviously not a rifle range:


The buildings at Wormwood Scrubs is now a pub called "The Pavillion."

Pavilion Parade, Wood Lane
Shepherds Bush
LONDON
W12 0HQ

The pub was built in 1861 as the Rifle Pavilion, named after the surrounding rifle ranges where volunteer units trained to counter a threatened French invasion.



Here is one of the Regiments raised in the area - Reilly sold guns to them:

[img]http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/56233_600x400.jpg[/img]

The Artists Rifles is a special forces regiment of the British Army Reserve. Raised in London in 1859 as a volunteer light infantry unit, the regiment saw active service during the Second Boer War and the First World War, earning a number of battle honours. It did not serve outside Britain during the Second World War, as it was used as an officer training unit at that time. The regiment was disbanded in 1945, but in 1947 it was re-established to resurrect the Special Air Service Regiment. Today, the full title of the Regiment is 21 Special Air Service Regiment (Artists) (Reserve) (21 SAS(R)) and with 23 Special Air Service Regiment (Reserve) (23 SAS(R)), it forms the Special Air Service (Reserve) (SAS(R)).
Might as well put this out too: If Reilly did not build guns, then here's another fellow in 1875 who sure was fooled:

. . . . . .27 November 1875, "Illustrated Sport and Drama News"
You know I've owned some really nice condition "Best" English hammer guns...Scott Premier grade a Purdey and a Blisset and I never let one possess my very existence like this Reilly has done to you...

Have you ever shot or hunted with your Reilly ?




Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
You know I've owned some really nice condition "Best" English hammer guns...Scott Premier grade a Purdey and a Blisset and I never let one possess my very existence like this Reilly has done to you...

Have you ever shot or hunted with your Reilly ?






jOe, not sure if you realize this but it is only through the dogged pursuit of history that we get any clarity of the past. Not all of us are bitten by that bug, I am sure not, but those who are leave a legacy of knowledge.

For example, 25-30 years ago, no one knew who H.A Lindner was. All of us in the double gun world are richer for the effort a small group made to uncover the truth about who had made those Daly guns. The guys who wrote the book on Parker are sometimes credited with the entire resurgence of SxS in North America.

Argo does this for his own reasons and while I don't care much about Reilly's, I'm glad he has those reasons.
It was all made possible by the internet.

Just curious as to why his obsession with one maker.
If Argo44 doesn't sort it out, who will? Hat's off to him as we still have the aforementioned Lindner - Daly(Canvas-Back) as well as 3 Ringe & 4 Ringe Spezial Stahl, etc. to sort. Pieces of the puzzle that exist today will be swept under the rug tomorrow possibly to never be found again. Maybe everyone should pick their favourite maker instead of incite to riot, etc.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Hey jOe. See first page. I thought about owning a double for many years. In November 2015 I went out to a gun show near Dulles Airport to buy a Thompson. I came back with a Reilly - my first ever double. It still is the most perfectly fitted gun for me. I don't hunt much anymore, maybe once a year in Missouri - one of my VN compatriots, who served many years abroad in other capacities with me, has a farm there. But I do shoot clays about every week or two here.

I got interested in when the gun was made, found a confused mess about Reilly history, and got into it. And I subsequently spent a lot of time in a desert region abroad with nothing much else to do. The more I delved into 19th century newspapers the more interesting it became and history really did come alive,.

jOe, sometimes you are funny; Many times you are just mean-spirited and vicious...but Alabamians expect that from Tennesseans, you know. Anyway, it all can be read above....oh wait a minute, we Alabamians know that's a difficult skill for a Tennessean...but there are a lot of pics. smile (Frank, just good naturerdly giving you as good as I get. smile
I've researched every gun I've owned from 160 years old to 10 years old...

But I never cared how many times James Purdey, W.C.Scott or John Browning had a bowel movement in a day.

Those 3 were the only real innovators in my opinion...the rest were just followers.

Reilly made some nice guns or had some nice guns made...who cares he was a follower.
Originally Posted By: Argo44
...but Alabamians expect that from Tennesseans, you know. Anyway, it all can be read above....oh wait a minute, we Alabamians know that's a difficult skill for a Tennessean...


Preach on Argo44 & pass the plate as I live w/ a Tennessean.....


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe


Those 3 were the only real innovators in my opinion...the rest were just followers.


Yeah & they were all following the Bohemians & the Germans as the rest were playing tiddlywinks.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
I've always had trouble understanding your Bohemians & the German gun e'ffliction for lack of a better word....

They made nice rifles but I've never seen one of their shotguns I'd own.

While the English and American gun makers were playing "tittlywinks"...start a thread and show us what they offered that stood the test of time.

James Purdey the double under bite...W.C. Scott the top lever...John Browning gun designs too numerous to list and a lot still in use today.

Start a thread and top those 3.

Not sure how I was badged w/ "Belgian gun e'ffliction(sic)(affliction)" phrase but that is just a facade. Belgium is a good ways from Bohemia.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I've always had trouble understanding your Bohemians & the German gun e'ffliction for lack of a better word....

They made nice rifles but I've never seen one of their shotguns I'd own.

I realize they made a few nice guns. Just remember John Browning put their name on the gun making map.


I don't think John Browning had much to do with putting Bohemian and German gunmakers on the map. He did have something to do with the Belgians, giving Henri Piper's baby, FN, something to fill their production lines.
You caught me before I edited. I don't have a clue or a care where Bohemia is or was....
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I've always had trouble understanding your Bohemians & the German gun e'ffliction for lack of a better word....

They made nice rifles but I've never seen one of their shotguns I'd own.

While the English and American gun makers were playing "tittlywinks"...start a thread and show us what they offered that stood the test of time.

James Purdey the double under bite...W.C. Scott the top lever...John Browning gun designs too numerous to list and a lot still in use today.

Start a thread and top those 3.



Here's the edited version...

Canvasback do you ever tire of your childish games.
Getting back to Reilly, I've posted an advertisement above which seems to indicate that at least from the 1830's J.C. Reilly was boring his own barrels:



I ran across this delightful and interesting passage in an 1894 book called "Incidents of Foreign Sport and Travel," 1894, by Colonel Pollok. It mentions two points:
1. The integrity of an 1840's muzzle loader barrel by Reilly.
2. His opinion of Liege made barrels.

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I've always had trouble understanding your Bohemians & the German gun e'ffliction for lack of a better word....

They made nice rifles but I've never seen one of their shotguns I'd own.

While the English and American gun makers were playing "tittlywinks"...start a thread and show us what they offered that stood the test of time.

James Purdey the double under bite...W.C. Scott the top lever...John Browning gun designs too numerous to list and a lot still in use today.

Start a thread and top those 3.



Here's the edited version...

Canvasback do you ever tire of your childish games.


What game am I playing jOe?

I pointed out the value of researchers and historians and corrected a factual error.

Do you ever tire of running down those who don't think exactly as you do? Because that was the only point of your post wondering why Argo is interested in Reillys. To denigrate him and his interests.

I would hope that when I make factual errors in my posts that someone corrects me.
Could I ask you all to please don't start this personal crap, here - send PM's instead. I think this is a very good historical line; it's the most complete line of information on Reilly anywhere in the world and has been pretty professional thus far. If you dispute that Reilly made guns, we'll talk about it. Thanks.
I only talk to my friends in PMs...
==================Reilly Serial Numbered - non Serial-Numbered=================
While continuing research on Reilly manufacturing capabilities in London, I'd like to post a few Reilly guns that look like Reilly made them, but no SN....which to me means Reilly did not claim to have built them. I can submit dozens of these including a lot of pistols of indeterminate make (not Adams, Colts, etc) but this should make the point that some Reillys, which look very "Reilly," were not claimed to have been made by him.

==========================================================================================
12 bore SxS Muzzle Loader pin fire: No SN
This gun is currently for sale: Muzzle loading SxS hammer gun. Name on the rib is E.M Reilly & Co., London" with "Reilly London" on the hammers. No visible SN. Normally with the EM Reilly & Co., it would mean the gun were built after October 1859. Note, there are pistols and other guns with "EM Reilly" (no "& Co.") on the rib that were before made before the changeover in the company name. These guns have no Reilly SN. However, with "& Co.", this muzzle loader was built after Oct 1859 up to about 1885 or so (there is a E.M. Reilly & Co. muzzle loader in existence with 277 Oxford street on the rib - .ie. post November 1881).. The gun has a London Proof....but no SN...thus I believe it was ordered, not made, by Reilly. Comment: This stock has the most drop I've ever seen in a Reilly.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/494/1/AAR-823

This fine antique double barrel percussion shotgun is stocked in checkered figured walnut with crisp locks, and barrels engraved E.M. Reilly & Co. London on the upper rib. London proof house markings, 12, and a small R.W. stamp. Both locks are expertly hand engraved with scrolls and Reilly & Co. below the breech.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Compare it to SN 8578 with J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford St., London on the rib:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=======================================================================================
British Enfield 1853 Rifle Muskets:


No SN: Two band Enfield made for Yoemanry militia.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

SN 11227: Compare with the below classic 3 band Enfield with a crown stamped on it. (Note: This is the first extant Reilly with "E.M. Reilly & Co." on the gun - 1859.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Or to SN 11419, 2 band Enfield - with only "Reilly and an unclear address on the barrel:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


==========================================================================================
No SN: 8 bore Single Hammer pin fire:
. (LEFT)
Gavin said this gun has no SN and Birmingham proofs. I concluded that Reilly sold it - he didn't make it.
http://www.gavingardiner.com/BidCat/detail.asp?SaleRef=0024&LotRef=295
Description: E. M. REILLY & CO. AN 8-BORE SINGLE BARREL HAMMER GUN 34 1/4-inch round to octagonal three-stage barrel with 3 1/4-inch chamber, about true cylinder boring, the frame, non-rebounding bar lock, hammer and rotary underlever with scroll engraving, 14 1/2-inch figured stock including 3/4-inch extension, 9lb. 9oz., nitro re-proof S2
top

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

RIGHT: Compare it to SN 10314, Reilly 6 bore muzzle loader with "Reilly, New Oxford Street, London" on the rib:

==========================================================================================
4 bore, Muzzle loading Hammer gun
(TOP)
No SN. Restocked in South Africa (for a left hander?)...but Birmingham proof. I've concluded it was sold by Reilly, not made by Reilly:

http://jamesdjulia.com/item/2347-391/
4 bore belted ball hammer percussion rifle muzzle loader. Tapered octagon twist bbl is mounted with one standing leaf rear, and �certifiable antique elephant ivory� blade front sight. Top flat is engraved �E. M. Reilly & Co. London�. Bottom flat is stamped with Birmingham black powder proof. . Case hardened patent breech is engraved with large open scroll. Case hardened breech iron with integral fence is engraved with large shaded scroll. Large bar action lockplate is mounted with tall, round bodied, slightly serpentine hammer. Hammer and lockplate are engraved with more large open scroll. �E. M. Reilly & Co� is on front portion of plate. Trigger plate is mounted with germanic type double set triggers, and trigger must be set before lock can be cocked. Trigger guard with squared bow has shell finial, and is also scroll engraved. Full length stock with swan-necked butt, is of indeterminate tropical wood (restocked in South Africa?); blued steel buttplate. Stock features large germanic style swept shadow line left hand cheekpiece. A hand forged ramrod is held by single plain pipe. Weight: 16 lbs. 6 oz.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Compare to SN 84XX, 6 bore Reilly, 502 New Oxford St., London (1848) - BOTTOM

==========================================================================================
No SN: 4 barrel gun:


Beautifully made. Reilly advertised four barrel guns in the 1850's, early 1860's. Name, address on the rib is E.M Reilly 502 New Oxford Street (post Oct 1859) and the label is the classic Reilly label for 502 with medals existing from 1856 until the sketch of the building was done away with in August 1860. But no Serial Number and it may have been proofed in Birmingham:

http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a-...42-c-a92474cb0a

Description: A rare cased four barreled percussion gun by Reilly, dating: mid-19th Century, provenance: London. Round, smooth barrels; the upper ones are 11 mm cal.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

==========================================================================================
No SN: 12 Sidelock made by Reilly for Oaks & Co., Madras, India (No SN mentioned)


[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Compare to 33619

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
To follow up on this Serial Numbered - non-Serial Numbered Reilly guns, here are a few pistols. This was addressed on page 8 above but I'll repost it.

1). Reilly early on made pistols as well as long guns and serial numbered them. Here is a May 1831 advertisement.


Two of the very earliest still existing Reilly's are pistols. Here is SN 176, formerly owned by Terry Buffum:


Yet the last SN'd pistol I can find would be dated around 1837. Here's a pistol almost identical to 176 but no SN. Whether Reilly made it or not...he didn't claim it:


========================================================
He sold Colt derringers, all sorts of revolvers, pepperboxes....you name it. He engraved these and put his name on it....but the name of the manufacturer was always there. There are pistols with no manufacturer's name except Reilly and no SN, most with London proof marks. I assume he contracted for these and engraved and sold them retail (though he could have built the en masse and just sold them). The addresses and names on the guns can be confusing though. Here are some similar examples:

========================================================
No SN
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/cased-pair-of-j.c.-reilly-percussion-traveler-s-p-FE943AD9A8
Description: Cased Pair of Engraved J.C. Reilly Percussion Traveler's Pistols with Accessories -A) Reilly Pistol Cased Pair of Engraved J.C. Reilly Percussion Traveler's Pistols with Accessories -The pistols are likely from the 1840s and are marked "J.C. REILLY LONDON" on the top of the barrels which have post and notch sights, swivel mounted ramrods, and banded breeches. The locks are marked "REILLY" on the bottom edge below the hammer.


Compare to this one - also No SN but with EM (& Co.) (not sure I believe this advertisement) allegedly on the gun:
An early 19th century double barrelled percussion pistol, by
E.M.Reilly & Co 11.5ins Ł250-300
http://www.icollector.com/An-early-19th-...1-5ins_i1254067


Or this one by Reilly:
No SN, A 19th century percussion service pistol by Reilly of London with 8˝ damascus barrel engraved steel lock with walnut full stock captive ramrod brass furniture and lanyard ring “
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...9d-a56000f4806b


=========================================================
Here are o/u pistols by Reilly with no SN, proofed in London, sold by Reilly. If he made them, he didn't claim them:

A good example of a 19th century over and under percussion pistol with the original belt clip. Reilly, New Oxford Street, London
http://www.onlinegalleries.com/art-and-antiques/detail/reilly-double-barrel-pistol/163836


Barrel stamped "Reilly. New Oxford St. London." London proof marks.No SN
https://collections.museumvictoria.com.au/items/373432


12mm Pistol by E.M.Reilly & Co LondonNo SN (the "& Co." dates it post Oct 1859)
http://www.jjmilitaryantiques.com/Home.aspx/Catdet/JJ20235?nm=english-4-shot-percussion-swivel-barrel-pistol-by-reilly&category=euroweap&bread_last=%2FHome.aspx%2FCatpage%2Feuroweap%3Fpsize%3D10%26sortseq%3DName&category_desc=Longarms%20%26%20Pistols%20European%20Pre1898#.WjT2ShiZPMU


========================================================================================================================
Left: SN 1292. From my chart I dated this 1837 - this is the last Reilly serial numbered pistol I can find so far:
http://www.garthvincent.com/antique/1597/a+miniature+pocket+pistol/
A Miniature 120-Bore Box-Lock Percussion Pocket Pistol By Reilly of London, Circa 1850. With round turn-off barrel engraved with a band of foliage at the breech, signed scroll engraved action, signed 'Reilly' on a scroll on the left and 'London' on a scroll to the right, blued concealed trigger, finely chequered walnut butt with diamond shaped escutcheon and stamped with a serial number on the inside edge, '1292', in untouched condition. 



Right: Compare it to the above fine similar engraved pistols - no Serial numbers:
Engraved and Silver-Inlaid Small English Boxlock Percussion Muff Pistols by Reilly, c. 1840 frames marked: Reilly/ London.
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20britannique/artisan%20p%20q%20r/a%20reilly%20gb.htm

I've looked at hundred of pistols....finally abandoned it since they had no SN's after 1837 and couldn't help the chronology. But more study might help in understanding the names and addresses put on the ribs of long guns. It also reinforces the understanding of the entrepreneurship and financial diversity of the company,.
You think you were a Reilly salesmen in a previous life ?
...
Sorry, late to the party, but possibly of interest.
"An Afternoon At Wormwood Scrubs"
A.B. Frost in The Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News April 6, 1878. Hammersmith and Fulham, West London.
Lower right appears that gunners and dogs waited for "clean up' past the boundary line.

Thanks Doctor. Interesting. That explains this part of the 1882 rules from Holt's shooting Calendar:

I'd like to finish this business about Revolvers and pistols because I spent an awful lot of time early on looking at Reilly hand-guns. In the end I could find no consistent way to identify them other than the age of the pistol itself. Even in the 1850's pistols were being engraved "Reilly, London"," E.M Reilly, London" etc.

Anyway he retailed a lot of revolvers of almost every type...including ones imported in parts from Belgium and assembled by Reilly in his buildings from really 1851 when Colt made such an impact at the Crystal Palace World's Fair up to the time the firm went belly up. (and some are extraordinary such as the gold washed Trantor-that did not come from Trantor like that). This may have been part of the reason late 20th century experts began to say he never built anything himself. Here are a few in collage form. I'll let you all identify what's what. (hint: Includes Colt, Smith&Wesson, Adams, Webley, Beaumont-Adams, Webley-Sykes, Tower Bulldog, Trantor...)





=======================================================================================
VAMPIRE KIT:
And by the way...here are a couple of neat 1835-47 (address is 316 Holborn on the guns) Reilly hammer pistols firing silver bullets. (Note how similar they are to the last SN'd Reilly above 1292). I think we may need this kit for this board:

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/02/11/19t...or-grabs-photos
A kit that includes everything from a matched set of pistols with silver bullets to wooden stakes and a mallet recently hit the market.
New Jersey-based International Military Antiques posted the one-of-a-kind Vampire Defense Kit this month on their site. Tied to Sir Philip Burne-Jones, an English painter who specialized in portraits that included one of Rudyard Kipling, the kit dates to about the 1890s when Burne-Jones was working on his painting, The Vampire, which came out the same year as the Gothic horror classic, Dracula by Irish author Bram Stoker. The painting later proved one of Burne-Jones’s best-known works.
Among the more interesting contents of the velvet-lined case are a set of apothecary bottles, wooden stakes along with a mallet to drive said stakes through the heart of a blood-sucker, an 1859 Bible, silver rosary, and a pair of .50-caliber percussion pocket pistols, marked “Reilly of London.”



Burne-Jones Painting:


That's it for hand-guns unless more serial numbered Reilly's come to light. If anyone wants to see derringers, pepper-boxes, Houdah's, Flobert's, I have saved dozens....won't help much with Reilly Chronology though.



I'm loving this thread!

Mergus
No doubt the Reilly pocket pistols were intended to be used with silver bullets.

SRH
Still working on Reilly manufacturing piece. it is now very solid. In the meantime, for Reilly .500 BPE shooters, here is a load which works for 9.3X75R from this line:

https://www.handloadersbench.com/forum/m...ble-rifle/page2

the S/N, on the bottom trigger guard tang, is 203XX. The legend on the barrel is just, "E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London", on the left barrel and "& Rue Scribe" on the right barrel. There neither is nor was any numbers with the addresses. Mine has had the barrels re-blacked sometime in the distant past and I believe the butt stock has been refinished. The butt is a beautiful piece of walnut. I has a keyed forearm, is a Jones underlever, steel grip cap and butt plate. I suppose it is scroll engraving and is very fine. Both lock plates have "E.M. Reilly & Co. engraved at the top edge. Oh, I want to remember the gentleman I bought it from some 20 years ago told me the rib had been recut. I don't know how to tell other than it is in good condition. Mine has a cheek rest and a silver escutcheon inlaid approximately 6 inches forward of the butt plate and about 1 1/2 inches rearward of the butt stock sling stud., one standing and one folding, shallow "V" rear sight and a silver bead front sight.....maybe. I guess it's silver.

My "Nitro for Black" load is 60 grs. of IMR-3031, open cell foam filler to fit the empty space to the bottom of the bullet and a 350 gr. hard cast bullet. Group size runs between 2" and 2 1/2" at 50 yards. A Hawk bullet of the same weight can be substituted.

I was never able to get a straight black powder load to shoot to the sights or regulate. I did work up a duplex load of 8 grs. of SR-4759 under either 110 or 115 grs. of Old Eynsford 2F, a beeswax base wad, an SPG grease cookie, a .020 card wad over that and all under 350 gr. cast bullet of 25-1 alloy, sized to .500 and paper patched. It's a PITA to load but it does shoot to point of aim and regulates both barrels. Group size runs around 3 inches at 50 yards.

I don't know if all Reilly's have Henry rifling but mine does. I'll never own another rifle so rifled.
======================================================================================================================
Questions on Reilly as a "vertical" gun making concern (making all parts himself)
.


This will go over some old posts summarizing them, and asking for opinions:

By 1860 EM Reilly, building on the expertise of his Father J.C. and his own business acumen had created an empire. With his partners (unknown), he was running two huge buildings at 502 New Oxford and 315 Oxford Streets. 315 included a 50 yard shooting range; a 300 yard private shooting range was located nearby at Shepard's bush. These two building included retail sales spaces, manufactories and EM Reilly's residence. 315 was located next to Purdy's located at 314 1/2, whose shop was dwarfed by the size of Reilly's building.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

In these two buildings Reilly created multiple streams of revenue for the company:

1) He made Serial Numbered bespoke long-guns at a rate of about 2 a day for every day of the year - shotguns, rifles, rook rifles, double, single, multiple barrels, hammer guns, muzzle loaders, center break guns, breech loaders, Jones underlevers, etc. He allegedly built every piece of these guns. He bored, honed, chambered and rifled the barrels, cut the stocks, made and filed the actions. By 1880 this bespoke gun production increased to 3 a day. Customers were allowed to watch the progress of their gun from day to day in the factories.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

...1862 article on a fight in Sarawak................... 1900 book
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

2). He inspected, finished and engraved long guns made under contract from Birmingham which he sold off the rack with his name on the rib. To do this he juggled contacts with Birmingham gun makers and with other London gun makers.

Non-serial numbered gun contracted for and retailed by Reilly
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

3). In the 1860's He made over 500 Green Brothers breech loaders and 6000 Reilly-Comblain breech loaders, to which he had exclusive manufacturing rights, probably contracted to a factory in Birmingham.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

4). Per at least one poster, he also manufactured guns for other prominent London gun makers.

Here is a non SN'd 12 bore he made about 1890 for Oaks & Co. Madras:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

5). He assembled high-quality revolvers shipped to him in parts from Liege, engraved them, had them proofed in England and retailed them with his name on the rib.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

6) He engraved revolvers and pistols from named manufacturers such as Colt, S&W, Trantor, Adams, Walker, etc. and put his name on the ribs and retailed them.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

7). He inspected engraved and retailed long-guns from named manufacturers such as Westley-Richards putting his name on the guns while retaining the names of the makers.

8). He made in their entirety air-cane guns with his name on them, but no SN.
9) He engraved everything including swords and bayonets:



10) He manufactured cartridges and other ammunition bits:




11). He sold guns wholesale to gun clubs and Yoemanry Militia.



12). And from the beginning he conducted a huge retail business in used long guns and pistols that he would inspect, test and guarantee.

May 1834 article on the futility of amateurs trying to find “bargains” in local bankruptcy sales:


EM Reilly had to be quite the entrepreneur to keep all these business balls in the air at one time and indeed he was. When he died in July 1890 he had just about the same amount of cash in his account, Ł8400, as was left to him by his father J.C. upon J.C.’s death in Jan 1864. But he had the buildings and the inventory, indicating he must have plowed his earnings back into his company.

As research continues, here are some thoughts which I’d appreciate some help with. There are some very knowledgeable readers here who have forwarded comments both skeptical and encouraging…LeFusil, Justin, and others. And now it’s time for some UK’ers to wade in because this is London history.

300 employees - a “vertical” vice “horizontal” company

By 1880 EM. Reilly allegedly (I have not personally seen these census records) told a census taker that he employed about 300 people. This is an enormous number!!! The London 19th century businesses were especially entrepreneurial. In 1850 there were only 7 firms in all of London with more than 350 employees.



David Trevallion told me that Purdey employed about 12 persons in 1953…Holland&Holland a max of about 25 in the 1890’s. 300 employees in 1880 would make Reilly one of the largest if not the largest gun-maker in London. Per David this would change his ideas about the nature of gun-making in London in the 19th century.

London gun makers (and for the most part the Birmingham as well) were “horizontal”…relying on an intricate network of sub-contractors; i.e. they supervised and subcontracted the essential work to others in the trade and assembled and quality controlled the final product.

But there were a few “vertical” gun making firms at the time…beginning in the 1850’s with the Colt Factory; and later Trantor…which claimed to do everything internally, If Reilly had 300 employees in 1880 (which would have included retail sales persons at three locations including Paris, shop foremen, stockers, action filers, etc.), and if he could allow customers to follow the progress of their orders in person in the factory, then most certainly the Reilly Company was, unusually, a “vertical” one as maintained in the ads…. I.e. It made everything internally for his Serial Numbered guns.

Questions:
— Is it possible to verify that Reilly employed 300 persons in 1880? It looks as if someone got a list of the number of employees of companies in London from the 1851 census.
— Are there English business publications from that time period with information on British companies in London? The above article comment has to be based on something.

Here’s what I will be doing:
— I intend to go over the 1861, 71 and 81 London census person by person to record who was involved in the gun trade at the time (unless this has been done somehow). It will take awhile but I’ll publish the result. David thinks there will be less than 1,000 workers in London. We’ll see.
======================================================================================================================
Questions on Machine Tools used for manufacturing guns
.
Now I’m going to look silly in this gun-making/smithing group. I’m trying to figure out what machines Reilly might have had in his buildings to make bespoke guns to the tune of up to 3 a day in the late 1800’s:

In June 1898 Reilly gave up 502 (16) New Oxford Street which the company’d occupied and where they’d made guns for 51 years. You’ll see from the chart that bespoke gun orders at that time had fallen from a high of over 1,000 in the early 1880’s to about 250 a year. A couple of very knowledgeable posters have suggested that I take a look at what items were sold from that building. If gun workshops were located in 16 New Oxford Street, the equipment had to go someplace - there would have been no room at 277 Oxford St., which already was a “manufactury” on its own. So now I need to search the British papers, specialty publications and possibly auctions for sales from that building in 1898. I am not a gunsmith, a metallurgist, a machinist, or a mechanical engineer specializing in manufacturing processes. So I need some help on what to look for; Here is my thinking in the subject:

Manufacturing by template: Historically British gun making in Birmingham and London was based on “templates.” With template made parts, hand filed and finished, tolerances varied by as much as 1/16”. Parts of course could not be interchanged. Everything was “bespoke.” Actions, hammers, etc. filed accordingly. Even so Birmingham and London, with the “horizontal” organization of the gun trade, with artisan apprentice trained workers, demonstrated time and again they could produce an enormous number of hand-made guns including hundreds of thousands of military weapons, the major production bottleneck being the making and inletting of the stocks.

Gauges/made to tolerance system: The “American system” arrived in England in the 1850’s, e.g: guns built to tolerances measured by gauges, made by milling machines with interchangeable parts. The American System in the beginning was mostly limited to London. The guns initially made on this system were for the military and with parts being interchangeable were were markedly more expensive than the hand-made versions. Birmingham was late to adopt the milling machines and especially the major bottle-neck for military production - the stock making reproduction lathes. It remained a hand-made haven.

So, a 50 year old factory at 502 (16) Oxford would have been unlikely to have had the milling machines etc. necessary for mass production of military type weapons. It would have been geared to a 19th temp-plate bespoke gun making process with traditional stock makers, action filers, engravers, bone-meal Damascus barrel browning, etc.. Thus, I think all I’d be looking for as far as gun making machinery for sale would be the following - with the help of Greener’s “Gunnery in 1858” book: see: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/43799/43799-h/43799-h.htm

— barrel making:

……. borer:


From advertisements, Reilly had barrel borers at least as early as 1840. It’s possible Reilly could have been making his own Damascus barrel stocks from the 1840’s- on…or he could have bought barrel blanks from Birmingham. I won’t address this. But most publications claim that by late 1890’s over 75% of British Damascus barrels came for Liege. I can say more about his.

……. Barrel grinder:


…….Rifling, honing, lapping, etc. Reilly always sold a lot of rifles. Rifling could be hand done…at least up to 1860’s. Later on Reilly could have had one of several rifling machine:

1863 Pratt & Whitney sine bar rifling machine made in UK by Greenwood and Batley:

Muir & sons rifling machine:

Or an 1883 Greenwood and Batley rifling machine (sine bar)


— Actions, hammers, springs, side plates, trigger guards: The actions would have been made to temp-plate and hand filed. However, as the 1800’s advanced, he probably had some milling machines in the buildings.

Stocks: the Stocks (and Reilly stocks to me are almost immediately recognizable) would have been hand made. He imported a lot of French Walnut. Stock making was the big bottle neck to military grade production thus the adoption of American Lathe copying machines. He probably didn’t need this machine:

Blanchard Stock Copying lathe


Lathes: He would have had foot treadle lathes for making pins and screws. David Trevallion told me that was his first job with Purdey in 1953..operate the foot treadle lathe. These and been around forever.



Power: Entire factories in Birmingham were run on a 125 HP steam engine with leather belt driven machines and that from 1820 onwards. This and the traditional hand/foot power would have been the power source for an Reilly workshop at 502 (16) New Oxford Street or 315 (277) Oxford Street.

Here are some photos of the American governments arsenal at Harpers Ferry - I’ve been trying to identify the machines in the gun shop - I live close enough to go up there to take a look:






He also made cartridges, took out patents on improving cartridges and marked these under the Reilly name. He must have had cartridge and bullet making machines.

Questions: When I search British newspapers normally I’ll search under the address “502” or “502 New Oxford” or “Reilly” or variants. However, if I were to look for gun manufacturing equipment and machines for sale in 1898, I will search for “borer,” “grinder,” “treadle lathe,”…but are there other signature machines associated with gun-making from that time period which would signal what Reilly had in that building? Drill presses? I don’t think screw manufacturing machines were available until the 1880’s

I’ll ultimately write this up in a pamphlet….the old saw…”If it’s not written, it didn’t exist” is the driving force. But I would like some sanity checks. I intended to visit Southern on Saturday 27 April for a few hours…my first trip to a SxS gathering…and intended to check in with DGJ and try to make contact with some of the writers who have encouraged this research. Per a phone call over the week-end, however, other priorities have intervened and I'm headed abroad again. But if there are other gun making machines I should be looking for in sales advertisements in the 1898 press, would appreciate commentary.
===================================================================================\
Outlier Serial Numbers

-- On P. 20 is the new short history of Reilly; I stand by every word of it. It includes a chart dating serial numbers.
-- On P. 22 is the list of extant or known Reilly guns by SN.
Everything advances in order from (c1825) 001 to about 3400 in 1847. Then once at 502 New Oxford Street the main-line picks up at about SN 8400 and continues unbroken to about 36,000 (1912)...with a side line reserved by J.C....from about 7000 to 8060 (early 1847 to Sep 1857).

Well, into this well-ordered universe...and E.M was organized....outliers - odd serial numbers - occasionally come to light. Here are 6 of them with discussions, illustrating that even if your gun has an out of sequence SN, it might still be dated using other means.

========================================================
3007 - It had to have been made after Jan 1859 and may not be a Reilly number - might actually be 13007
?????

Advertisement:
http://www.tennants.co.uk/Catalogue/Lots/225065.aspx
A 19th Century 16 Bore Double Barrel Pinfire Shotgun by E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford Street, London, the 73.5cm browned steel barrel signed on the rib, with Birmingham proof marks and numbered 3007, with signed foliate engraved back action, under-lever break, walnut stock with chequered grip and fore-end


Discussion: Address shows it cannot have been made before Jan 1859 when Reilly opened 315 Oxford St. it is a center break gun. With a Jones underlever, patent was given in Sep 1859, you could push the first possible date further forward but I've seen a muzzle loader converted to center break many years later. It has Birmingham proof marks and the "SN" is uncharacteristically on the barrel. This is either not a Reilly SN - all Reilly SN'd guns at the time were London proofed - or it is an outlier. There are no photos of the SN...it could be a typo. Could it possibly be 13007 - 1863?

The gun is very similar to Terry Buffum's 13033. Perhaps there is a "1" missing from the front of the SN?


=========================================================
3402 - SN would indicate early 1847 - address shows it to be post Feb 1868
Terry Buffum


Advertisement:
https://live.amoskeagauction.com/m/lot-details/index/catalog/18/lot/6687?url=%2Fm%2Fsearch%3Fkey%3Dreilly
.577 cal, Rifle SxS; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle Loader (Buffum).
serial #3402, about .58 cal, 23 1/2” heavy four groove rifled bores rating about excellent showing some very light frosting. The barrels show very nice contrasting gray and brown mottled damascus twist their full-length, showing also some remnants of some very light pinprick pitting scattered about the left tube. The left tube is maker marked with London address, the right with “& Rue Scribe Paris”. ...The locks are crisp and mechanically functional and feature forward-sliding safeties, the case-hardened breeches feature platinum blowout plugs and both of the triggers show nice checkering on their faces; (3B7147-157) {ANTIQUE} [Terry Buffum Collection]





Discussion: The right tube has "rue Scribe." It is a muzzle loader. But with rue Scribe it has to be after Feb 1868....the earliest gun with rue Scribe we've found is 12 bore's 14983.. So the SN is unexplainably quirky. Given the completeness of the address, I still think Reilly made the gun.

=========================================================
3514. - Label would place it between late 1855-Jan 1959 - Might be 13514?


Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 13bore. Shotgun SxS. Muzzle loader, hammer gun.
Advertisement:
C1850 - CASED IN ORIGINAL MAHOGANY CASE WITH REILLY TRADE LABEL.BARRELS MARKED 13 BORE. RIB ENGRAVED WITH REILEY, 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON. DAMASCUS BARRELS WITH RAMROD. GOOD COLOURED ACTION WITH SOME SCROLL ENGRAVING. LARGE TRIGGER GUARD ENGRAVED WITH DOGS. PINEAPPLE FINIALS. STOCK REPAIRED. OVERALL GOOD CLEAN FIREABLE CONDITION.
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns-black-powder/reilly/percussion/12-gauge/170610144659005



Discussion: Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street would indicated it were made between April 1847 and Oct 1859 when the name of the company formally changed to E.M. Reilly & Co. It is neither part of the JC "7000" series nor the main-line Reilly series. However, the label is one used between late 1855/1856 and Jan 1859 (with the medals from the 1851 and 1855 world fairs). In spite of the odd number, I feel Reilly made the gun.

Edit: 3514 is very close to this gun in lines..12920. 12920 has a similar label but with EM Reilly and the building sketch. Thus I'm inching towards believing there should be a "1" in front of this number 13514, and the case is either older than the gun or an old label was used.



=========================================================
10021 - SN would place it 1856; However it has to be post 1865
- a remanufactured Enfield with a Snider breech added?


Advertisement:
https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogu...seur-collector/
A .577" Volunteer Snider 3 band rifle by Reilly, 55" overall, barrel 36˝" with London proofs and Enfield inspector's mark, the breech block having "Snider Patent" mark; lock bearing crowned "VR" and "1865" over "L.A. Co" and engraved "E.M. Reilly & Co, New Oxford St, London"; walnut fullstock with brass mounts, trigger guard with eyelet securing chain and nipple protector, and numbered 10,021; with single sling swivel, original steel ramrod, muzzle plug, German silver rearsight cover stamped "Snider", and with registration mark, and triangular socket bayonet (no scabbard),


Discussion: Clearly a military rifle retailed by Reilly and proofed by Enfield. It has to be post 1865 (Snider patent). Thus is cannot have a Reilly 10000 SN which would have had it being made about 1856 if it were originally made as a Snider. I could believe 15021 - 1868. But unfortunately the SN is not pictured so it remains unclear. The brass trigger housing though is similar to other Reilly-made and serial numbered Enfields and Sniders and the stock neck seems slimmer than a normal Enfield/Snider. Reilly sold wholesale rifles to the Yoemanry militia and rifle clubs; usually these "volunteer" rifles were not made by him, only ordered and retailed. It could be that it was originally an 1856 Muzzle-Loading Enfield, remanufactured with the Snider breech - However, in such a case the name on the barrel would have been "Reilly," not "E.M. Reilly & Co."

=========================================================
4573 - Address dates it to between Aug 1835 and Mar 1847 - Note the bore size stamp...


Advertisement:
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/76/400/engraved-jc-reilly-percussion-sporting-gun
The smoothbore barrel gauges just over 6 bore at the muzzle (.93) and has a post front sight, "J.C. REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON" on top at the breech, and London proofs, "7" and "4573" on the bottom. The breech, locks, and furniture all have classic scroll patterns and engraved line borders. The serial number on the lower tang is faint. The stock is checkered at the wrist and has a flat buttplate. The address on the barrel indicates the gun was manufactured approximately 1835-1847 based on Joseph Charles Reilly's move dates. .. 6 bore guns were used for hunting elephants and other big and dangerous game in Africa and India in the 19th century.



Discussion:
Terry Buffum thought this J.C. Reilly so unusual that he bought it...going down the Reilly rabbit-hole again! The SN doesn't fit known patterns but the address would date in between 1835-47 per above. Once he receives it, he'll photograph it and analyze it and I'll post more, In the meantime, it's a familiar shape and size...just an unfamiliar number. The ad writer at least got the Reilly dates at High Holborn right...a first..showing he's glanced at this line - though the fact there are other errors in the ad show he didn't read it all very carefully - wonder if the ad writer is related to one of our posters? I think J.C. was more "flexible" on his numbering system than his son E.M.

=========================================================
9137. - not a Reilly SN


Advertisement:
http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Odd%20Fel...2040%20Cal..htm
NeedlefireTarget Rifle E.M. Reilly 40 Cal.
E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 Oxford St. London


Discussion: Reilly sold a lot of these rook rifles with his name on them. But so did others - identical guns. This is the only one I can find with a SN. It has E.M Reilly & Co...on the barrel which normally would indicate it was post Oct 1859. However the SN, if it were a Reilly, would date it to 1851, an impossibility. So Reilly likely retailed this rifle - he did not make it.

I==============================

I'll add this comment: A couple of "3000" numbers above look to be missing a "1" in front of the number. I've found anotherr Reilly in the 2000 series with a "1" almost illegible on the back of the number. Perhaps "1"'s were subject to wear...or perhaps they just weren't put on certain guns.

Also, especially in from the mid-1870's-1890 thereabouts Reilly "3"'s and "5"'s could be very difficult to distinguish. Terry Buffum noted this; some of his guns that he thought had a "5" actually had a "3" when brought to auction, etc. Earlier number engraving on the tang seemed to vary more.

So still no factory ever found ?
Originally Posted By: [censored
]So still no factory ever found ?


So you still can not read?
I'm continuing to add trivia to this line and believe that some very knowledgeable SxS experts are now coming around to understanding that Reilly did indeed build guns...a lot of them...33,000 SN'd guns and by 1880 over 1000 a year...3 a day...not counting what they built for others.

Here's a page from the 1864 Williams' Manufacturing Directory.
-- Reilly is listed as a "Gun, Pistol and Rifle Manufacturer." (no mention of Reilly as a "retailer.")


-- Interestingly he's also listed under "Swords, Cutlers and Manufacturers."





I'm wondering if "Reeves" worked for Reilly directly. Will be researching this.
===========================================================
5512 ?
. it is always JC throwing the monkey wrench into the works
(actually the term "sabotage" came from Belgians throwing their wooden shoes (sabots) into machinery which was taking their jobs)

And the more you think you know....the harder the fall. Above is mention of Reilly SN's that just don't fit the chronology. Here is another one - at least the seller read this line.

SN 5512. (on the barrels and the splinter forearm
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/820030447
Rare British double barrel 12g shotgun made by J.C. Reilly. He was silver smith before he started making guns. He made guns for royalty of Europe and Asia. This one has serial number on it(all matching) which means that he personally made and hand engraved this gun. There is a good history write up about this maker and I will post a link of it. Gun is in very good shape, it is Damascus barrels. Spring is very tight and everything works on it. I tried to take a lot of pictures of it to show everything. Great shotgun which was personally made by the starter of the company. I will let pictures tell the story. history of the company: Doublegunshop web site under Reilly history It is antique and it will be shipped to your door.

What's interesting is the address on the rib: Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn now 502 Oxford Street. The gun had to be numbered around the time of the move from High Holborn to Oxford Street....late March 1847. I will ask the seller if there are any other marks on it.





Address on Barrels:


SN on Splinter forearm


SN on barrels


Reilly didn't do a lot of non floral engraving....this is interesting, David Trevalion said the London engravers always messed up wildlife - they'd never seen real animals in the flesh:


This inscription matches well with this label and with advertisements that continued for a year after the move....JC had a hard tine letting go of High Holborn.



This ad from 09 Nov 1847 "London Post" 8 months after the move shows how wedded he was to the High Holborn address.


This is the current chronology from p.22....at some point I'll move it.
1846: ..3121 - .3360. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
..3329 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London, 10 ga/.58 cal. Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun. Muzzle loader

1847: ..3361 - .3400. + 7000 - 7070. + 8400 - 8500 - . . . . .240. .*3,*4,*5,*6
..3392 -Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holburn, London. 10 ga/.58 cal; Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, Muzzle loader. (Last SN at High Holborn).
..7023 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 11bore. Shotgun SxS. Muzzle Loader, hammer gun. (1st JC 7000 series but with Holborn still on the rib)
..5512 (outlier) - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn now 502 Oxford Street; 12 bore SxS Shotgun. Hammergun, Muzzle loader.
..8463 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London (“label-J.C. Reilly, removed from Holborn"); .390 cal. Rifle; Enfield percussion, double express, muzzle loader. (First New Oxford 8400 series)
..84xx - Reilly, 502 Oxford Street, London; 6 Bore; Shotgun, single barrel, hammer gun, muzzle loader.

1848: ..8501 - .8680. + 7071 - 7170. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
..8578 - J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London (label - “removed from Holborn”); 10 bore; Shotgun SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader

1849: ..8681 - .8860. + 7171 - 7270. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
..7201 - Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal; Rifle, Single barrel, hammer gun, Muzzle loader. (label - "Removed from Holborn")
================================================================
11716 - Validation of Chronology

This gun just appeared on Guns International. Reilly SN 11716 - .577 Enfield Rifle Presented as a prize Christmas 1860. The chronology date chart would have had it numbered in November-December 1860 - believe this is another "validation of method" marker.

This from p.22:
1860: 11341 - 11770. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430
11419 - Reilly, (Address not clear) Oxford; .577 cal Rifle; Enfield, 2 band, hammer gun, muzzle loader,
11645 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 100 bore; Rifle. Prince patent, single barrel, breech loader,
11651 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford St., London. .577 cal; Enfield type, hammer gun, muzzle loader converted to Snider breech loader.
11xxx - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street London (Reilly on case); 11mm. 4 smooth barrel, hammer gun, muzzle loader
11716 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; .577 Enfield rifle. Muzzle loader, volunteer rifles. Presented as a prize Christmas 1860

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101246940
Description:
This antique presentation model of the Model 1853 rifled musket / target rifle made in London, England is absolutely beautiful. The rifle was made by E.M. Reilly & Co., which according the barrel address was located on New Oxford Street in London. This beauty was given out as a 2nd place prize most in an 1860 military shooting competition. The buttstock has a round sterling silver plague inlaid into the right side which is engraved "14 Devonshire VR - Dec.1860 - 2nd Prize". Just ahead of the rear sight is the main presentation inscription in an acid-etched section: "Second Prize Rifle - Presented to the 14th Devon V.R. Christmas 1860 - By The Hon C. Denman MP". From what we have learned so far, the "V.R." in 14th Devonshire V.R. stands for either Volunteer Rifles or Volunteer Reserves, either way it was part of the British Empire Military......... (etc. - see link)


If JC Reilly wasn't making guns, he sure pulled the wool over the London directory authors like Pigot.

Another 19th century British books on UK manufacturers, this one from 1870. Reilly is listed as a "gun, rifle and pistol manufacturer"....no mention of his being a "retailer." Perhaps the compilers were fooled?

1870 Handbook to the Manufacturers and Exporters of Great Britain.
https://books.google.com/books?id=Z_INAA...ers&f=false

Hi everyone, i'm new to this forum and based in the UK. I have just found this brilliant thread and am most impressed with the efforts gone in to creating this authoritative database, well done!
I own, and shoot, a J C Reilly which might be of interest. It is a 14b percussion double gun of fine quality, the barrels have marks for London proof and are stamped 14, suggesting post 1855. The external faces of the locks are signed just "Reilly". The top rib is signed "Joseph Charles Reilly New Oxford Street London" with no street number, but assume 502 (1848-1860) which would tie in nicely with the proof marks.
Here's where it gets interesting, it's serial number is marked extensively to locks, barrels, breech plugs, ironwork and wood. But the number is "2008" suggesting a much earlier gun. I tend to think 1855-1860 is more likely the manufacture date, but would appreciate your views as to it's number and date.
I can take some pics, but do not have a web site to post them here, perhaps i can PM them to a member and they could post on my behalf?
Look forward to your thoughts...
Hello wootang and welcome!! I would gladly post photos for you. I'll send you an e-mail via PM. Alternatively, you can go to a commercial web photo hosting site where for free they will convert your photos for posting....I use jpgbox.com. I think yours is an important gun and would like to have a record of it.

I'm having all sort of recent problems with J.C.'s numbering system from about March 1847 when they moved to 502 New Oxford Street to the time he retired September 1857.
-- There is the "7000" series which includes 7 extant JC guns from 7023 (while still at High Holborn) to 8052 (obviously one of the very last guns he made).
-- Then there are the "outliers":
.....-- 5512 from I believe 1847
.....-- 3514 from I believe 1856 time period based on the case label.
.....-- 2008 - And now your gun

.....-- Terry Buffum bought a JC Reilly, High Holborn 6 bore single barrel in May that we thought had a serial number 4073. It turned out, when he got hold of it and examined it under deep magnification to be 1x73 with the x being a number with a bottom curve - 3, 5 or 8. Assuming it were a 5 or 8 it would be right around 1839-41 and thus in sequence. (see post above).

Based on the address 2008 had to have been made by J.C. during the time period 23 March 1847 to September 1857. Perhaps with pictures we can work on a more precise date. Does it have an original case? Is there a label in the case?

I would be interested in why, if stamped "14" it would be post 1855? This is new to me and potentially very interesting. Gene Williams

Any address with "New Oxford" will refer to 502, renumbered 16 in November 1881...March 1847 to June 1898. 315 (later 277) Oxford street sometimes just "Oxford Street" opened in January 1859 and continued to be used until closed in 1904.
Thankyou Argo, success with the pictures.
Unfortunately no case with the gun, so no label.
Definately only 2008 as the serial number.
30" twist barrels which have been refinished at some time. The top rib signing is faint but does states address as previous post.
The London and Birmingham proof houses were only stamping the bore size, in addition to the proof marks, from 1855, hence my supposition that the gun would be post 1855. Marks and dates Chart below.
The gun has an interesting trigger guard, which i have never seen on an English gun.



















Hopefully the question of date can be resolved! I'm sure i once read somewhere that Joseph Charles perhaps kept back some numbers for later use, which might explain? My only other thought is the gun may have been rebarreled in the 1850's, keeping the original early number but displaying the address at the time of the rebarreling? But hard to imagine the original barrels could be worn out in such a short time, unless of course a major barrel burst?
Cheers
Just to amplify on the proof marks as it is an important dating point. The marking of the barrels with the bore size, was a requirement introduced by the English 1855 Gun Barrel Proof Act and applied to both London and Birmingham proof houses. Prior to this date, i believe there was no requirement to do so, however maybe some makers did as there will always be exceptions to the rule?
The proof house chart in the post above was extracted from Diggory hadoke's book "Vintage guns for the modern shot" with grateful aknowledgement.
Interesting woo. The 1855 mandated bore stamps would indeed be a date marker. I went back and looked through my database which has 20 Reilly (Joseph Charles Reilly, J.C. Reilly and Reilly) extant long guns which I've dated 1825 to 1855. Unfortunately there's not one picture in the lot of barrel markings - once more Auction house going for esthetics and missing the crux of the guns. I'll start looking further.

However, with this stamp then 2008 surely dates between 1855 and the institution of the bore size stamp and September 1857 when J.C. Reilly publicly announced his retirement.

Looking at your pictures above, especially the pineapple finials (which probably were common motifs at the tine), I'd say your gun most resembles these two Reilly's:

=========================================================
7869
. (I dated it 1855...part of the JC Reilly "7000" series)
(SXS 40 now owns this gun...I'll ask him to take a look at the proof marks to see if there is a bore mark.)
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/114/270.php
serial #7869, 12 ga, 31" damascus barrels with very good lightly pitted bores. The barrels display a beautiful damascus pattern with light pinprick pitting around the breech area. The top rib is marked "J.C. REILLY. NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON." The locks show a mottled brown patina which are nicely engraved in foliate scroll with geometric borders. The hammers show a nice scroll engraving and appear to have been lightly polished; the right hammer guard has a small chip. The engraved guard with pineapple finial front extension shows a dull gray patina. The checkered walnut pistolgrip buttstock and forend rate very good with scattered dings and scratches with a wood repair on top of the comb. The gun functions well mechanically and included is a ramrod. (177147-155) {ANTIQUE} (1000/1500) SOLD FOR $0.00SOLD FOR $431.25



=========================================================
3514
- label indicates post September 1855-1859 - not a JC but close
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns-black-powder/reilly/percussion/12-gauge/170610144659005
C1850 - CASED IN ORIGINAL MAHOGANY CASE WITH REILLY TRADE LABEL.BARRELS MARKED 13 BORE. RIB ENGRAVED WITH REILLY, 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON. DAMASCUS BARRELS WITH RAMROD. GOOD COLOURED ACTION WITH SOME SCROLL ENGRAVING. LARGE TRIGGER GUARD ENGRAVED WITH DOGS. PINEAPPLE FINIALS. STOCK REPAIRED. OVERALL GOOD CLEAN FIREABLE CONDITION.





Pineapple motif from the 4-barrel pictured above:


I've temporarily put your 2008 into the year 1856 in the p.22 chart of extant guns...based on the above two guns.

1855: ..9761 - .9940. + 7771 - 7870. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
..7801 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 28 bore; Walking cane gun.
..7802 - J.C. Reilly, New Oxford St., London; 6 bore, Single Barrel, muzzle loader, Hammer Wildfowl gun
..7869 - J.C. Reilly, New Oxford St. London; 12 ga; Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader (Buffum)(SXS40).

1856: ..9941- 10220. + 7870 - 7970. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 380. . . . .**1. Overdone by orders after Paris
..3514 outlier - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 13bore. Shotgun SxS; Muzzle loader, hammer gun (1855-59 case label)
..2008 outlier - Joseph Charles Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. 14 bore. Shotgun SxS; Muzzle loader hammer gun. 14 bore stamp.

1857: 10221 - 10530. + 7971 - 8060. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400. .*7
..8025 - Reilly, New Oxford St. London; 13 bore, Rifle; hammer gun, Muzzle loader (Buffum). (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici)
..8052 - Reilly, New Oxford St., London. 20 bore. Rifle. Hammer gun, muzzle loader. (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici) (Last JC made gun)
10315 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 6bore. Shotgun; Single barrel, hammer gun, muzzle loader.
10354 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; .400 cal. Rifle; SxS double breech loader. (Extensive conversion 1895-1904 by John Fry-added new receiver, underlever, hammers, stock.)
Your trigger guard appears on this E.M. Reilly & Co., London 4 bore single barrel, Birmingham Proof...Which I don't think Reilly made..only retailed (no SN): I have a difficult time dating this gun because EM put his name on non-serial numbered guns in the 1850's before the company formally changed its name to "EM Reilly & Co" in October 1859.

I'll have to research UK corporation data from the 1850's....several authors claim the Reilly's had two or three different companies operating out of the same premises using the same labels and the same advertisements at the same time. (Of course...there's NO indication that this was based on primary source research). - - - except that Reilly exhibited at the 1851 Crystal Palace International exhibition as "E.M. Reilly" and at the 1855 Paris Internationale also as "E.M. Reilly.")
-- (But I feel the Reilly's JC and EM were compulsive control freaks and supervised even the guns they sold on retail).
-- (I've never figured out why there are two triggers...might one be a hair trigger set?)





And another - no SN mentioned:
================================================================
Post October 1859 ??

http://www.mendipauctionrooms.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Sporting-Sale-Catalogue-Dec.pdf
150. E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London 13 Bore double barreled shotgun, Damascus Barrels, believed to be original finish. Ł1000-1500

Hi Argo,
7869 certainly looks a similar gun to my 2008. It will be interesting to see the barrel proof marks.
3514 has similar looking standing breech and fences to 2008. The large trigger guard looks earlier than 1850's? but may have been ordered that way of course (big fingers/ gloves?). Is the case original to the gun?
If only more early guns would surface for comparison, it would then rule out the nagging thought in my head that 2008 was rebarreled and it was is infact an earlier gun than its current barrels would suggest. Until then, i agree that the date of 1856 has got to be right and have to accept that J C R guns sometimes had an irregular numbering system.
I will place a post on the MLAGB (Muzzle loaders association of Great Britain) forum to see if any members have early guns and would like to share the info for your database.
Wootang
For the record, here are photos of the 20 or so earliest Reilly long guns:

=========================================================
162
I dated it 1828 - see caveats


https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=10247&aid=86974&lid=22392051

A 14-BORE PERCUSSION SINGLE-BARRELLED SPORTING-GUN, serial no 162, circa 1835, with re-browned twist-iron triple-stage 32in. barrel with carved bands at the intersection, the top-flat signed in gothic script 'J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS LONDON', bead fore-sight, platinum line with a pheasant engraved at breech, platinum vented plug, scroll engraved top-tang, borderline and acanthus scroll engraved bar-action lock signed in script 'REILLY', highly figured walnut half-stock chequered at the wrist, iron heel-plate, the long top-spur engraved with acanthus scrolls inhabited with a pheasant, border and scroll engraved trigger-guard bow, moulded iron fore-end cap with integral ramrod throat, plain iron thimbles and brass-tipped ebony ramrod 300-400



=========================================================
1174
. I dated this 1836

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...2&saletype=

J. C. REILLY - AN 8-BORE PERCUSSION SINGLE-BARRELLED FOWLING PIECE, serial no. 1174,
circa 1850, with shortened 27 1/2in. barrel, short sighting rib to breech, scroll engraved top-tang, patent breech with platinum vent, borderline and scroll engraved lock signed 'J.C. REILLY' (hammer replaced), chequered walnut pistol-grip half-stock, iron furniture, silver oval escutcheon to bottom of pistol-grip, horn fore-end cap and original (shortened) ramrod (some surface pitting to iron parts)



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3329
. I dated it 1846
London, 1837-47
Serial no. 3329, 10 gauge/.58 caliber. 30 inch brown twist barrels, the concave rib signed Joseph Charles Reilly 316 High Holburn London; single standing/single folding rear sight; breech end of rib inlaid with two platinum bands. London proofs. Patent breech. Scroll-engraved tang and back action locks, the latter signed Reilly. Engraved steel furniture. Figured walnut half-stock with vacant silver wrist escutcheon. Sling swivels. Brass-tipped ramrod. Together with green baize-lined oak case. Accessories including cleaning rod, basketweave pattern powder flask, two powder measures, oiler, nipple wrench, main spring vise and leather strap.
Condition: Very good. Barrels retain much period re-browned finish. Locks with traces of later casehardening. Sharp markings throughout. Stock with light marks. Case lid with scattered marks and missing escutcheon. Interior with old relining. Accessories good to very good.



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3xxx ?
No SN, No date but pre-1847
https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/J-C-REILLY-LONDON/22392046/LotDetail.asp?lid=22392046
A 10-BORE PERCUSSION DOUBLE-BARRELLED WILDFOWLING-GUN, no visible serial number, circa 1845, with twist-iron 36in. re-browned barrels, the top-rib signed 'J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON', bead fore-sight, scroll engraved rib-end at breech, scroll engraved 'plugs', engraved top-tang, borderline and scroll engraved bar-action locks signed 'REILLY', scroll engraved dolphin-headed hammers, walnut half-stock chequered at the wrist, iron furniture (heel-plate corroded) and brass mounted mahogany ramrod 800-1,200
Fine Modern & Antique Guns - December 2014
Sold for: Ł800.00



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xxxx ?
Pre 1847 - No SN
http://www.bruun-rasmussen.dk/search.do?iid=300721740&cid=513&mode=detail
Name: JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBORN, LONDON
Description: Classical English double barreled hunting gun, c 1840; English iron mounted half stocked double barreled hunting gun c. 1840 by Joseph Charles Reilly with butt cap, trigger guard, and locks finely engraved with English scroll, c. 71 cm. long barrels in calibre c. 16,5 cm. marked on the strap JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON.





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4573
.
(x= 3,5,8,0). 1837 if "3", 1839 if "5", 1840 if "8"

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/76/400/engraved-jc-reilly-percussion-sporting-gun
"The smoothbore barrel gauges just over 6 bore at the muzzle (.93) and has a post front sight, "J.C. REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON" on top at the breech, and London proofs, "7" and "4573" on the bottom. The breech, locks, and furniture all have classic scroll patterns and engraved line borders. The serial number on the lower tang is faint. The stock is checkered at the wrist and has a flat buttplate. The address on the barrel indicates the gun was manufactured approximately 1835-1847 based on Joseph Charles Reilly's move dates. He entered the gun trade in 1835. It is not clear if he manufactured guns himself or contracted them out, but his son and successor, Edward M. Reilly is known to have been an air gun innovator. 6 bore guns were used for hunting elephants and other big and dangerous game in Africa and India in the 19th century."



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5512[/b]. [b]Outlier discussed above...Certainly 1847

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/820030447
Rare British double barrel 12g shotgun made by J.C. Reilly. He was silver smith before he started making guns. He made guns for royalty of Europe and Asia. This one has serial number on it(all matching) which means that he personally made and hand engraved this gun. There is a good history write up about this maker and I will post a link of it. Gun is in very good shape, it is Damascus barrels. Spring is very tight and everything works on it.



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7023 First JC "7000" series, still at High Holborn - early 1847?

https://issuu.com/holtsauctioneers/docs/holt_s_9th_march_2005
151. AN 11 BORE DOUBLE BARRELED PERCUSSION SPORTING GUN
by J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London, Serial no. 7023, with 35 1/2" re-browned twist barrels signed in full on the broad rib; silver fore-sight, breeches engraved with scrollwork, scroll engraved tang; signed locks and mounts; figured walnut half-stock with checkered grip and brass mounted ramrod; (iron parts heavily discolored; stock with some minor defects). London proof marks. Ł300-500

Early Reilly Muzzle Loaders continued:


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7201. - 1849, second of the "7000" series,

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...20-a61700c0a9c0
Name: Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. Removed from Holborn
Description: A mid 19th Century single barrel percussion action gun, by Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London, numbered 7201, the muzzle loading barrel holding brass mounted ebony ramrod under, signed to top and lockplate, engraved steel mounts with feather scrolls to walnut butt and stock, in original mahogany fitted case with maker's label to inner lid; two Sykes patent shot flasks, one with embossed leather bag; one Reilly shot tin; and other fittings. Hammer Price: Ł700.00 .



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7802 - Reilly 7000 series - I dated it 1855

http://промкаталог.рф/PublicDocuments/0523722.pdf

371.
A 6-BORE PERCUSSION WILDFOWLING GUN by J.C. Reilly, New Oxford St. London, serial no. 7802, circa 1850, with 42in. tapering twist sighted barrel signed in full at the breech, scroll engraved breech and signed lock (cock replaced), figured walnuthalf-stockwith chequeredgrip (butt pierced and filled, probably from use in a punt), horn fore-end cap, scroll engraved iron mounts, white metal escutcheon, and original brass-mounted ramrod, London proof marks.
See illustration page 109
Ł600-800



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7869 - Mentioned above, "7000" series - I dated it to 1855

http://www.amoskeagauction.com/114/270.php
serial #7869, 12 ga, 31" damascus barrels with very good lightly pitted bores. The barrels display a beautiful damascus pattern with light pinprick pitting around the breech area. The top rib is marked "J.C. REILLY. NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON." The locks show a mottled brown patina which are nicely engraved in foliate scroll with geometric borders. The hammers show a nice scroll engraving and appear to have been lightly polished; the right hammer guard has a small chip. The engraved guard with pineapple finial front extension shows a dull gray patina. The checkered walnut pistolgrip buttstock and forend rate very good with scattered dings and scratches with a wood repair on top of the comb. The gun functions well mechanically and included is a ramrod. (177147-155) {ANTIQUE} (1000/1500) SOLD FOR $431.25



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8025 - 7000 series - dated to 1857 - one of the last JC's

Reilly, New Oxford St. London; 13 bore; Rifle; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle loader (Buffum). (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici)
a percussion rifle (single barrel) I still have with a skull and cross bones and "Veni, Vedi, Vici" engraved. Bore is just over .700, so perhaps 13 bore. Two groove, so made for those "waisted bullets". A ball with a "belly band" and a short pointed bullet with two rectangular "bumps" are in the patch box which is engraved with what I think is a red deer. Fixed leaf marked 100. Flip up rear sight leaves for 150, 200, 250 and 300.





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84xx
- Mainline serial number series - 1847

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=42593

6 Bore; very good bore, fair stock, 26.25'' barrel, Manufactured in England circa 1840s. Barrel shortened long ago, commonly done for use with round ball against large game somewhere in the empire. Original browned finish barrel, casehardened lock, mounted in a walnut stock with double wedged forend and checkered wrist. Fine scroll leaf engraving on the lockplate and stock mounts. Engraved on the side of the lockplate "REILLY.LONDON". The top of the barrel is marked "REILLY. 502 OXFORD STREET, LONDON". Ramrod is a later replacement. The stock has an old crack on the right running from the back of the lockplate into the checkering on the wrist, and another crack which appears to have been glued long ago on left side, running from the center of the trigger guard plate up to the rear of the upper tang. The lock functions fine. Antique, s/n 84xx



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8463
- Mainline Reilly SN - 1847


http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-1361-e-m...nal-case-40673/

E. M. REILLY PERCUSSION DOUBLE EXPRESS RIFLE WITH ORIGINAL CASE. SN 8463. Cal. .390 Groove diameter. 5-Groove Enfield type rifling. Approximately 1 turn in 50″. Unusual 24″ stepped octagonal barrels have extremely heavy breeches. “Reilly, New Oxford Street. London.” is engraved on narrow sunken top rib. Rear express sight is mounted on island base, has one standing, two folding leaves, plus an additional long ladder blade with very fine U-notches for precision shooting. German silver front blade is inset in raised front boss. Bottoms of bbls have London proofs and SN. Hickory ramrod has brass tip and tail, and is held by one long plain pipe mounted with sling eye. There is a retaining boss at front end of bbls which engages groove in ramrod tip. Barrels are made of unusual broad patterned skelp twist. Case hardened patent breeches have SNs on hooks, and vented platinum “blow-outs”. What appear to be original, square shouldered nipples are deeply set into fences. Breech iron is engraved with very nicely cut open scroll. Front action locks with high rounded serpentine hammers, are separated from bbls in Westley Richards fashion. Locks are engraved with more open scroll, as are hammers, which terminate in stylized dolphins heads. Lockplates are also engraved “Reilly London” and have vignettes of game; a recumbent stag on left, and running stag on right. There are silver flash guards between breech iron and lockplates. Scroll engraved trigger plate has circular finial. Trigger guard bow is engraved with another running stag. SN is on grip. Dense, slightly marbled and figured European walnut full pistol grip buttstock measures 14″ over steel, long tang, scroll engraved buttplate. Patchbox with spring-loaded circular cover is on right side of stock. Cover depicts a stag approaching through moors. Stock features large shadow line right hand cheekpiece, engraved steel grip cap, 18 LPI checkering with mullered borders, and vacant gold oval, as well as sling button, on toe line. Forestock attaches to bbl with side nail through oval steel escutcheons. Drop at heel: 2″, drop at comb: 1-5/8″. Weight: 11 lbs. 6 oz, LOP 14″. Makers oak case with inlet brass corners, is lined in deep burgundy velvet, with small Reilly paper label. Accessories include newly made leather sling, with old snap swivel, original key, as well as a copper-bodied brass top flask engraved “Reilly no. 8463”, which throws a very large charge of powder. This unusual and high quality rifle was made during an era of great experimentation with many different attempts at producing long range rifles. This particular rifle probably used a very long, for the caliber, bullet, with large powder charge, and was probably extremely effective. It would be lots of fun to see how it performs today. CONDITION: Very fine. Bbls retain 80% original brown, thinning on high edges, with some areas of dark discoloration from cleaned oxidation. Bores are excellent and bright with some minor pitting toward muzzles. Breech iron, locks, and hammers show a considerable amount of their original case color, and evidence of some cleaning. Stock retains most of its original French polish with a number of knocks, marks, and dings, as well as some lifting. Trigger guard and buttplate have most of their original blue, but silvering and flaking. Quarter size area at heel on buttplate shows heavy oxidation, and needs further cleaning. Patchbox has been cleaned to silver, with many dark areas. Locks are crisp. Exterior of case appears to be re-finished, with some cracks on bottom, glued. Interior cloth is very good, showing many areas of discoloration from contact with gun. Label is dark with large area illegible. Partitions are tight. Flask is good. 4-40673 MGM110 (5,000-7,000)



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8578
- Mainline SN but a JC Reilly gun. 1848


http://www.probusauktioner.se/auktion/au...November%202014

A CASED DOUBLE BARREL PERCUSSION SPORTING GUN
ca 1850, lock signed Reilly (Joseph Charles R. London), lock and steel mounts with engraved decorations, triggerguard with no 8578, twist barrels with London proof marks, signed on the rib JC Reilly, 502 New Oxford street London, 114 cm, case with label and powder flask; wedge missing, rust

Here is the current chronology of extant guns 1825-1856 (from p.22 - see caveats). If It can be established that older Reilly's did not have a bore stamp, I'll create an 1855 marker. I've asked SxS 40 to look at his 7863 and Terry Buffum to examiners his 1x73.

Year. . . . . . . . . . . .Serial Numbers. . . . . . . . . .yearly production
. . . Black-Main Chronology; Blue - JC “7000” series. . . . . .*Marker footnotes. **Sanity checks
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Various known patents on SN'd extant guns

1825: . . . 01 - . . 20. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .20. .*1
1826: . . . 21 - . . 50. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .30
1827: . . . 51 - . .110 - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60

1828: . . 111 - . .200 - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 90
….162 - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. 14 bore. Shotgun; percussion, single-barreled muzzle-loader
….176 - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. .50cal. Pistols; Pair of percussion dueling pistols (Buffum)

1829: . . 201 - . .300. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .100
...254 - J.C. Reilly? (no address mentioned). Percussion pistol per Terry Weiland article.

1830: . . 301 - . .400. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .100
1831: . . 401 - . .510. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .110
1832: . . 511 - . .640. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .130
1833: . . 641 - . .870. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .130

1834: . . 871 - .1000. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 130
..xxxx - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. 14bore. Sporting gun. Single barrel, muzzle loader. "highly figured stock" (Picture)
..xxxx - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. .45 Cal. Pistol, 14cm long muzzle loading, steel barrel, percussion pocket

1835: ..1001 - .1130. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 130. .*2
..xxxx - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 50cal. Pistol; Percussion single-steel barrel muzzle loader
..1024 - Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 8.5mm. Pistol; hammer gun, steel barrel, pocket pistol (1st SN's gun with High Holborn on the rib)

1836: ..1131 - .1280. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150
..1174 - J.C. Reilly (no address). 8 bore. Fowling piece; Percussion single shot, single barrel, muzzle loader.

1837: ..1281 - .1430. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150
..1292 - Reilly, London, 120 bore, Pistol; steel barrel, percussion miniature pocket pistol. (Last numbered pistol)

1838: ..1431 - .1500. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 170
1839: ..1501 - .1700. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200
..1x73 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London; 6 bore Single barrel. Hammer gun, muzzle loader (Buffum) (x is unclear =3,5 or 8)

1840: ..1701 - .1920. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 220
..1869 - (unknown) 10 ga. Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader (Buffum)

1841: ..1921 - .2160. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
1842: ..2161 - .2400. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
1843: ..2401 - .2640. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
1844: ..2641 - .2880. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240

1845: ..2881 - .3120. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
..xxxx - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 10 bore. Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, Muzzle loader "highly figured stock" (pic available)
..xxxx - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 10 bore? Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, Muzzle loader.

1846: ..3121 - .3360. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
..3329 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London, 10 ga/.58 cal. Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun. Muzzle loader

1847: ..3361 - .3400. + 7000 - 7070. + 8400 - 8500 - . . . . .240. .*3,*4,*5,*6
..3392 -Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holburn, London. 10 ga/.58 cal; Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, Muzzle loader. (Last SN at High Holborn).
..7023 - J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London. 11bore. Shotgun SxS. Muzzle Loader, hammer gun. (1st JC 7000 series but with Holborn still on the rib)
..5512 (outlier) - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn now 502 Oxford Street; 12 bore SxS Shotgun. Hammergun, Muzzle loader.
..8463 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London (“label-J.C. Reilly, removed from Holborn"); .390 cal. Rifle; Enfield percussion, double express, muzzle loader. (First New Oxford 8400 series)
..84xx - Reilly, 502 Oxford Street, London; 6 Bore; Shotgun, single barrel, hammer gun, muzzle loader.

1848: ..8501 - .8680. + 7071 - 7170. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
..8578 - J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London (label - “removed from Holborn”); 10 bore; Shotgun SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader

1849: ..8681 - .8860. + 7171 - 7270. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
..7201 - Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal; Rifle, Single barrel, hammer gun, Muzzle loader. (label - "Removed from Holborn")

1850: ..8861 - .9040. + 7271 - 7370. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
1851: ..9041 - .9220. + 7371 - 7470. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
1852: ..9221 - .9400. + 7471 - 7570. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
1853: ..9401 - .9580. + 7571 - 7670. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
1854: ..9581 - .9760. + 7671 - 7770. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280

1855: ..9761 - .9940. + 7771 - 7870. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
..7801 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 28 bore; Walking cane gun.
..7802 - J.C. Reilly, New Oxford St., London; 6 bore, Single Barrel, muzzle loader, Hammer Wildfowl gun
..7869 - J.C. Reilly, New Oxford St. London; 12 ga; Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader (Buffum)(SXS40).

1856: ..9941- 10220. + 7870 - 7970. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 380. . . . .**1. Overdone by orders after Paris
..3514 outlier - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 13bore. Shotgun SxS; Muzzle loader, hammer gun (1855-59 case label)
..2008 outlier - Joseph Charles Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. 14 bore. Shotgun SxS; Muzzle loader hammer gun. 14 bore stamp.

Hi Gene, here is a photo of the bottom of the barrels and top rib for Ser. No. 7863

where is the closest petrol station to me
Very pretty, SXS 40. About 1847?

Any other pics of it?

SRH
Thanks Harry. The SN is 7869...not 7863. I've dated this SN as very late 1855 - see chart above.

Now here's the question. There definitely is a bore stamp on the barrels. This would seem to confirm the 1855 date when bore stamps were required and would definitely be another "proof of method" for the date chronology. But....what if Reilly were stamping bore sizes forever?

Terry is having a hard time wrestling the barrel off his 1x73 6 bore. If any other Reilly owners with pre 1855 guns can look at the proof marks, it'll tell us if Reilly were one of the makers stamping his guns' bore size before the government mandated it. (Since the auction houses were advertising bore size for the above listed pre 1855 Reilly's, I would be inclined to believe Reilly stamped these before the law required it...but would like to see pictures... I pretty much don't trust what the auction houses advertise without pics - I've seen them butcher serial numbers, names and address on ribs).

I'm going to e-mail the owner of 5512 outlier, the gun advertised on guns international posted above which is clearly 1847-48 and ask for photos of his barrel proof marks. (edit: You Reilly guys need to take a look at that gun!!)

Just realized 5512 barrel proofs are posted. The gun is definitely 1847-48. No bore marks. Looks like proof of method....i.e. the chart dated 7869 to Dec 1855 - it has bore size proofs. A gun 5512 from 8 years before has no bore stamp?? Need validation however.

Re bore size marks on 5512. Are we certain it is a 12bore gun? There looks like a feint 10 or 16 between the visual and definitive stamps on each barrel to me?
No doubt that 7869 was proofed at 13b though!
In the other line Woo mentioned that the 1855 addition of a bore size stamp is a known gun date marker in UK. He mentioned that Greener and Manton were two gun makers who were putting bore stamps on their guns prior to the 1855 regulation.

Well on 5512 there is very definitely a 16 between the two proof marks...it is a 16 bore..as Wootang noticed. Here are the possibilities:
1) Reilly was date stamping his guns before 1855 regulation like Greener and Manton.
2) The address on the rib - "316 High Holborn now 502 New Oxford Street" can't date the gun.
3) The serial number is wonky.

I believe option 1 and 3.
-- Auction houses stated in advertisements the bores of pre 1855 Reilly's.
-- I believe most London gun makers serial numbered guns when ordered (for bespoke guns); (In 1880 Reilly began to stock and sell his Reilly-made guns off the rack; I believe these were numbered when sold).
-- I also believe most London gun makers added the address on their ribs and blacked the barrels just before shipping.
Thus, the conclusion for the moment on 5512 is that the rib address is a more solid date-maker for 1847-48 than the presence of the bore stamp is for 1855....until proven otherwise.

However, to confirm this, need more examples of early Reilly barrel proof marks.

Argo;

Hello there in McLean;

Interesting thought on London makers may have browned barrels just before shipping in the era under discussion. Can you enlighten me some more about this?

Regards;
Bv
Well, I got the idea from you. I may have misunderstood or let this one instance assume too much importance?

Quoting Bushveld: "Engraving and engravers were just another craft/trade in the time of the E.M. Riley shotgun Weiland references. For example: E.J. Churchill sends a note and a set of barrels over to the excellent engraver Mr. Sumner on the morning of March 18, 1904 with the note reading: "Barrels of 1398 (gun number) To name (engrave the Churchill name and address), rough rib & engrave it these must be here tonight as they have to be blacked & go away tomorrow morning certain. Please Oblige; signed E.J. Churchill" From this note we can assume the Barrel blacker worked all night to get the barrels blacked for the customer gun to be shipped, as it usually takes 5 or 6 blacking cycles for a barrel to be completed--the blacker probably did not finish until late the next day."
Argo;

Thanks for your quick reply.

In that particular instance, I believe the last minute barrel browning/blacking was as a result of an overall tight schedule of Churchill in the finishing of the subject shotgun. I have wondered what sort of proper barrel blacking job could have been done in such a short period, if indeed the schedule Churchill was as tight as he writes.

I suspect however, when the production schedule of building guns and rifles was normal, or at least more normal, that barrel were browned/blacked as soon as possible to prevent rusting from handling and rusting because of a humid environment.

Stay inside as it must be quite hot at McLean today.
Rust blue can be done using a variety of methods as well. Some factories used steam rooms to speed the process and Belgium style express blue would be another option.
I assume barrels are blacked or browned after the address on the rib is engraved from Bushveld's post on the Churchill above? So the barrel is made, welded, hammered, bored, honed, polished, joined, lumps added, rib cemented in...then engraved before browning? And browning doesn't take place until...??? When?

But does it make sense to put two barrels together, cement in the rib and then engrave the rib, before you know what gun it's going on? Could be but then I'm not a gun maker. But pictures of (mass production ) factories sure show a lot of bored barrels piled up and just sitting there. I don't really know diddly about gunmaking but common sense would seem to indicate the barrels are finished off for a bespoke gun as a last step...but am open to counter-arguments.

As for SN 5512 and whether the address on the rib or the bore stamp is a date marker...I'd still go with the address on the rib until proven otherwise. If anyone has pre 1855 Reillys and can check their guns (they're all posted above..) please post.





And Didier-Drevet never made more than 300 barrels a year in Saint Etienne to maintain quality throughout the last half of the 19th century.
Argo;

I know a way for you to gain, in a short period time, a primer on the art and craftsmanship of gunmaking to complement your considerable research skills.

10 years or so ago a video was made of the gunmaking process inside Holland & Holland, with the likely title of "A Look Inside HOLLAND & HOLLAND"--"Film by Billy Payn www.gunmakersrow.co.uk" Back then I think I paid 50 dollars US or UK pounds 50--I do not remember. It was available as a CD for both USA and European format. An hour or so in length. You should search for it and do yourself a great favor by purchasing it and learning, for example how ribs are soldered on,(yes, an actual video segment shows this in the H&H video) not cemented. Although they are "cemented" on these days for less expensive guns--and they stay on the barrels very well, for even some carbide tips on circular/rotary saw blades are cemented on these days.

H&H no longer has these videos for sale, but they may be able to help you find one--a call to them in Dallas would be worth it.
Thanks Bush....I am risking divorce by having bought 5512 even though its condition may preclude shooting it....it will be my first and probably only project gun.

I'll take a look at the H&H tape...and there are others out there. But frankly, though my entire family are engineers, I'm not (though I did restore a 1950's BSA DBD-34 Gold Star 500 single etc.) I'm really more of a historian. I'll rely on you guys who really know what you are doing to keep my ideas straight.
Originally Posted By: Argo44
Thanks Bush....I am risking divorce by having bought 5512 even though its condition may preclude shooting it....it will be my first and probably only project gun.

I hope it answers more questions for you than it raises!
I was asked recently whether a Reilly case was original. Labels tell a story. But cases? There were so many different grades and types, oak, leather, canvas, top opening, end opening (Terry Buffum had one of these), and I'm not at all sure Reilly or any other gun maker made his own cases. And cases were lost, abused, replaced.

Still here are 6 top of the line Mahogany cases from about 1855 to 1870 or so which seem to have a unity of make and may (or may not) indicate originality or date period - they all have this little lift-up ring on the top face of the case:



7869 (Late 1855) ( SXS 40's gun) - Mahogany


12532, 1862. Gold Wash M-L, which I believe was exhibited at the 1862 London Exposition - case is more ornate than usual as would be expected.


16 bore muzzle loader, no SN mentioned, EM Reilly label but estimate 1862. The brass ornatery was added in India.


13033, 1863.


15964, 1869


16585, 1870
Argo, I believe this forum is very lucky to have a member of your ability posting so much information as you do about Reilly shotguns. Don't think it is not appreciated.

My first brit gun was a sleeved Reilly I bought off this site, and it is still one of my favorites. You already have the serial and information on my gun and it's the only one I have, so I have nothing to add but my encouragement to you to keep on doing what you are doing...Geo
I think that few, if any, gunmakers made their own cases. The gunmakers left that to the case makers.....


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Gene, are you sure that first pic is of a mahogany wood case? Sure looks like pine to me.

SRH
After I posted it I said to myself, "That sure is a broad grained piece of lumber and can't be Mahogany." It's from SN 16585. But no one will notice who hasn't lived in pine forests in Georgia or Florida.

I don't know of pine being used on gun cases. I think it is oak. I guess I should have concentrated on the little round center handle in those cases as the focus of interest.
Haven't been able to find the H&H Payne movie Bushveld talked about. I'm now researching all sorts of stuff for a project 5512. But did look at numerous videos on the net including this one, an H&H video which is very modern. The barrels are assembled with rib soldered in...no engraving yet...stacked up...being fitted to the action...and not blacked. Researching further - doesn't mean it wasn't done back in the 1880's. David Travaillon said there is a group in Birmingham which has assembled 1860's era machinery and is making guns with it....I'd love to see that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLxDRb7yWnw



Looks like fingerprints on some of those barrels.
This H&H video makes it clear that barrels were not blacked until the entire gun was finished and test fired. It was then taken apart and engraved. On the H&H it also appears that barrels may have proofed before blacking (stamps are on the water table as it is finished).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUXoNUzAyvk



1951 film on proof testing Birmingham guns....whether barrels are blacked before being proofed is not quite clear - black and white film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3aHnxsj7y8



But this video show a proofing process on the gun as it is fully ready for sale, barrels blacked, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q42lZqH-60



Whatever, this is mentioned just to reinforce my opinion that the address on the rib of J.C. Reilly SN 5512 was original, possibly dating it to 1847-48).
The gentleman from H&H is regulating barrels for convergence and the sights for POI, this would be the final step mechanically. It could be engraved afterwards but it would not be take apart to do so. Barrels can be blacked either before or after blacking, it would just depend upon the situation but I would believe most newly constructed guns to be proofed before blacking.
Sort of beating a dead horse since it's now well established that Reilly made guns, and some the most articulate and experienced posters on this board, who originally had doubts, have conceded most of the conclusions in this line. However, here's a repeat post from p.15 updated a bit. I'm not sure the "Gunmakers' Association" allowed "retailers" in as members. Could be wrong of course - more research on this topic is needed as pointed out below..

==================================================================================================
1902 - H.H. (Bert) Reilly and the Gunmakers Association


— Here is the notice for the 1902 meeting of the British Gunmakers Association annual meeting. There are some powerful names here: Greener, Blanch, and of the people who didn’t show up H.W. Holland, etc. etc…and H.H. Reilly (Bert Reilly), EM’s youngest son. He apparently began running the business sometime in the late 1890's or early 1900's?? (with help from brother? mother?). (Note: Bert was still young at the time of this meeting; old E.M. surely would have been at the meeting - he was a consummate "networker" and the Reilly's were old friends and allies of Blanch).

Who ran it from EM’s death in July 1890 to the time Bert took over hasn't been established although EM Reilly's "reputed" son Edward Montague Reilly may have handled things until his death on 25 July 1895. Edward Montague was born in 1967 (possibly out of wedlock)...before Reilly was married. At death Edward Montague's profession was listed as "gun manufacturer."

The interesting thing, besides the fact that HH didn’t attend the meeting, is the existence of “The Gunmmakers’ Association” at all. I’ve tried to research UK gunmakers associations and when and where they came into existence without much success. But. It’s an interesting topic —- what did they discuss? Who were members? How long did it exist? What organizations were predecessors? The minutes of the meetings have to be somewhere. There’s a lot of history there.

["Sort of beating a dead horse since it's now well established that Reilly made guns, and some the most articulate and experienced posters on this board, who originally had doubts, have conceded most of the conclusions in this line"]

No not all of us are convinced, but you're making a good case...Geo
Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
["Sort of beating a dead horse since it's now well established that Reilly made guns, and some the most articulate and experienced posters on this board, who originally had doubts, have conceded most of the conclusions in this line"]

No not all of us are convinced, but you're making a good case...Geo


I’m definitely in agreement with Mr. Newbern on this one. I still haven’t seen anything definitive, most specifically after the percussion era. Still not one gun making machine that was owned by Reilly. Not 1 photograph of gunmaking at Reilly’s in progress. Not 1 article describing gunmaking in progress. No names of lead gunmakers from each department (stockers, actioners, barrel makers, machinist, etc).
Cogswell & Harrison definitely made guns, there’s machines, names, pictures , articles to prove it too. All of the above is well documented with other manufacturers, even with the smaller ones. Keep digging. Still waiting proof of anything being made in the Reilly “factory” during the breech loading era.
Keep searching, hopefully you’ll come up with some empirical evidence proving definitively that actual gunmaking operations took place at Reilly’s in the breech loading era.
Research continues. But I'll reiterate....no photos exist of Reilly retail sales shops....but they existed. Reilly records were lost - Blanch records were lost in a Zeppelin raid also.

But not one publication from the 19th century called him a "retailer." Dozens of anthologies and encyclopedia's of manufacturers in UK from the 1830's to early 00's list Reilly as a gun maker/manufacturer, pistol maker/manufacturer and as pointed out, a maker of swords and knives.

Dozens of articles by knowledgeable shooters claim Reilly "made" or "built" the guns they were shooting including some of the most preeminent shooting writers of the age. How the late 20th century "experts" came to the conclusion that he was a retailer only is a mystery.

And both of you and a couple of others who have commented on the line really do know a lot and are respected. We'll see what happens.

Edit: And to help address concerns,to further this line, and in defense of the above research, here are questions:
-- it'd be helpful to know who told you all that Reilly did not make guns. Why do you believe what you were told? Did you do any research on the topic yourself? The origin of this myth seems to be rooted in Brown and Boothryod? I've already posted the errors about Reilly in the articles and books they've written.
-- Can you all point out definitively a Serial Numbered Reilly that was made by another manufacturer? Which one?....I can forward pictures of 300 extant Reilly's for analysis...a number pictured above. Have you all looked at this - analyzed the guns? Or are you just repeating something you were told?
-- And why, if he made muzzle loaders, and has been repeatedly identified as one of the earliest advocates of breech loaders in UK, could he not make breech loaders?

-- edit: Please post one....one...19th century writer or article that said Reilly was only a retailer. Thanks.

I'll simply add that there are people in the UK ready to change their opinion about Reilly. Because for 20 years he was one of if not the largest private gun makers in London.
Gene,
Are you the author of the up coming article in Diggory's new online publication?

I think you are very close to correct in your hypothesis. When looking back through your thread and at the 2 A&D guns with the WR top levers pictured on pg.22 I noticed neither gun has a "T" preceding the serial number. Something I think of as fairly typical if WR had finished up the guns. On barreled actions sold to the trade the serial number was usually lacking the "T" prefix. I would bet my bottom dollar WR built those barreled actions. Pretty much everyone else was using the Scott spindle as soon as it was developed. I am not certain all guns finished up in house and sold with another retailers name always had the "T" prefix but many of them did.

Another thing I noticed was the advertisements in the London daily to stop on down to Oxford St. and have your gun fit, try it out, watch it be built. While certainly much of the advertisements of the day were full of falsehoods, this seems pretty legit. It does not seem you would pay good money to advertise a service you do not offer. My guess is Reilly at some point had settled into buying barreled actions and doing the fit, finish and stocking of them on bespoke items while at the same time offering a catalog of pre-finished Brmingham built guns.

Interesting reading for sure and thanks for all the effort.

Steve

Originally Posted By: SKB
Gene,
Are you the author of the up coming article in Diggory's new online publication?

I think you are very close to correct in your hypothesis. When looking back through your thread and at the 2 A&D guns with the WR top levers pictured on pg.22 I noticed neither gun has a "T" preceding the serial number. Something I think of as fairly typical if WR had finished up the guns. On barreled actions sold to the trade the serial number was usually lacking the "T" prefix. I would bet my bottom dollar WR built those barreled actions. Pretty much everyone else was using the Scott spindle as soon as it was developed. I am not certain all guns finished up in house and sold with another retailers name always had the "T" prefix but many of them did.

Another thing I noticed was the advertisements in the London daily to stop on down to Oxford St. and have your gun fit, try it out, watch it be built. While certainly much of the advertisements of the day were full of falsehoods, this seems pretty legit. It does not seem you would pay good money to advertise a service you do not offer. My guess is Reilly at some point had settled into buying barreled actions and doing the fit, finish and stocking of them on bespoke items while at the same time offering a catalog of pre-finished Brmingham built guns.

Interesting reading for sure and thanks for all the effort.

Steve




Steve,
What you're describing is how probably a good 80 to 90% of turn of the century English "gunmakers" operated. It by no means meant that they all had a working factory that was capable of complete gunmaking. Stocking and finishing, while definitely considered sub-categories of gunmaking isn't gunmaking in its entirety, especially when your talking about companies that owned actual factories producing weaponry at the rate that Argo44 claims Reilly was doing. Some of these factories that actually produced complete guns from forging to finished gun.....didn't employ half the people that Argo44 claims Reilly had employed at the time.
With that many people employed and building guns don't you think its a little suspect that no one claims to have worked for Reilly? That none of these employees struck out on there own and pronounced that they were formally of Reilly's and now produce their own guns? No articles of workers, especially the super skilled type that might have been head hunted by other prestigious London gunmaking firms after Reilly shut its doors? Actioners, Barrel makers, finishers, stockers, Iron mongers, all would have been in serious demand.

A lot of provincial gunmakers, smaller firms, etc. used barreled actions and did the stocking and finishing. They also brought in completely finished guns... Nothing new about that, most everyone knows that. That's not exactly "gunmaking" in the full sense.
Its also a known fact that most of these makers had these barreled actions or finished guns either serial numbered for them by the makers they ordered from or they were ordered with no serial numbers...and were then later engraved with their own serial numbers prior to being stocked and finished at their shop, again...common knowledge. Serial numbers are most definitely NOT proof that the company built that particular gun. Back in those days, it was completely acceptable to tell little "white lies" in the gunmaking industry. White lies because it really did no harm and everyone was getting in on the action. Completely true? Not at all. Most of these shops (the 80 to 90% I mentioned earlier) had no real gunmaking equipment, very few of them had an actual milling machine (extremely expensive). Most of them had the tools and equipment for general repair and stocking. That's about it. Finishing was rarely done in house, almost always done by an outworker who was probably unknown to the general public at that time. Barrel making, etc. could be done in house, but was also usually done by outworkers. Very few shops had a house engraver. Again.....almost always an outworkers job. There were a few exceptions obviously. G.E. Lewis did most of their engraving in house. Argo44 claims that most all of these REAL gunmaking activities took place at the Reilly location. Nothing he's produced show's any of that taking place there, I don't buy "advertisements" and shop literature as proof. It's truly hard to believe that Reilly was a full on gunmaking factory, producing the amount of weaponry at such a prolific rate and nobody is documented to have apprenticed with them, struck out on their own, skilled workers weren't head hunted or moved on to other factories, machinery required not shown to have existed at the premises, and the list goes on. With the output of guns supposedly coming out of the Reilly factory, isn't it odd that Reilly didn't have a "house style"?? Most every London gunmaker had a pretty specific house style. Whether it was an engraving style, a particular kind of action, etc. No Reilly I've ever seen (I've owned a couple over the years), has a specific look or distinguishing feature about it. You know...something that identifies it as being a Reilly. That's extremely odd, damn near unheard of for a gunmaker with a London address. I honestly cant think of 1 that didn't have a particular calling card in regards to style, action or features found.

Even with all of his time consuming research that he's done, as impressive as it is (I don't know where he finds the time! Its a pretty monumental effort that's definitely to be commended),
I'd say he's still a ways off from connecting the dots as you say.
Easier to prove a fact than to prove a negative. That's why our legal system is based on the presumption of the negative.

Argo is assembling evidence I don't recall seeing before. Not conclusive yet, maybe but he's getting there. If clinching evidence is out there he'll probably find it.

I'd like to know...Geo
Yes Steve. Diggory read the line and thought it compelling and asked if he could publish the "New Short History of Reilly." He said he is not afraid of controversy. He has edited the history to make it less academic and more readable.

This might be a turning point because others in the UK will start to dig now. I'm sure I'm right. I've identified the "factories/work shops," his ranges, his products, a few of the people who worked for him including his shop foreman in 1862, and dated the serial numbers. I'll continue to dig but the circumstantial evidence assembled thus far is pretty overwhelming.
Shoot for the late 1870’s and 1880’s and go from there. It’s already been established by researching predecessors that Reilly did in fact make guns in the early to mid 19th century. We are mostly interested in breech loading guns. And like I said....just because there’s serial numbers and pictures of guns, swords, pistols, etc does NOT mean that maker actually made the things. Just because s company was listed as a gunmaker DOESN’T mean they actually manufactured the guns. Selling guns that show up to your “factory “ completed, or even stocking , finishing or subcontracting those jobs on a barreled action doesn’t qualify a company as a gun manufacturer in this day and age and just barely did back in those days. A lot of the companies that built ground up percussion and flint guns continued to use the “gunmaker-gun manufacture” label long after they ceased to actually build entire guns.
I will continue to look into this LeF...and you know a lot about British guns. But among the facts that cannot be explained away is the 1881 census. Reilly employed 300 people. Holland and Holland 25, Purdey 12? I'll come up with real numbers for the latter two. Reilly built 1000 Serial Numbered guns a year at this time period, twice the number of Purdey and H&H combined. So if those 300 people weren't making guns, what were they doing?

Also, Reilly is recognized as one of the three pioneers in UK championing breech loaders after 1851 - Lang, Blanch, Reilly. I can give you the cites. 1860 book has pages devoted to Reilly's breech loader (p. 12 above). His breech loaders participated in the 1859 trials squaring off against the best muzzle loaders as posted in this line (p. 13). Why all of a sudden about the late 1860's couldn't he make breech loaders anymore? The logic doesn't make sense.

You maintain Reilly had no gun-making machinery yet he made muzzle-loaders. I've a picture of a Reilly muzzle loader with 277 Oxford Street on the rib....post November 1881. So how could he make muzzle loaders without machinery? And those two huge buildings with four floors 25,000 sq ft of space (estimated on each one)....What was going on in all that space? He said he made guns there and invited clients to view the progress of their gun.

I'm not trying to be querulous; but the evidence is overwhelming and the people who bought his guns and used them were some very prominent hunters and writers. Again I'll ask for one article from the 19th century to be posted identifying him only as a retailer. I don't think you'll find one. So when did this myth start? I suspect after Riggs bought the company August 1922.

Lets see what the knowledgeable gun people in UK have to say about the subject after Diggory publishes the article....it's being published in two parts. Possibly three..I've told him the primary purpose of this line originally was to date Reilly SN's...that I think has been done successfully..so he may publish the SN dating chart as an addendum.

Posted before - but EM was a businessman and made what sold. Once you have a template...not too hard to build the gun.
......17 Aug 1862 "Bell's Life" - review of guns at the 1862 London World's Fair
The evidence is overwhelming to you. You want this to be true so badly that it’s making your research and opinions extremely biased. 300 people employed by Reilly....possibly a huge number of those for the retail? Think big department store, like Herrods. No frickin way Reilly employed 300 people making guns, swords, knives and pistols, and not a one of them went out on their own, not one of them carried the prestigious title of lead gunmaker, lead barrel maker, lead finisher, lead actioner, Head of iron monger shop, etc. Not one of those 300 employees went anywhere else to build guns and ply their craft??? No one struck out on their own and used Reilly’s name to establish themselves????? No one was ever apprenticed at Reilly’s???Think Henry Atkin, Beesley, etc. gunmakers like them apprenticed and worked for firms before striking out on their own. It’s well documented. What, Reilly’s was the exception????? No.
Not one of those 300 wrote an article detailing the in house gunmaking that was supposedly taking place?
Every bit of evidence you provide of their gunmaking pre dates the breech loader and the “Golden Age” of gunmaking in England.
I do maintain that Reilly didn’t have the capabilities (expertise, materials, facilities, machinery, etc) to build complete ground up guns in the late 1870’s to until the went belly up, nothing is out there that proves otherwise.
Why is it you never hear of an old gunmaker talking about some Bloke at Reilly’s who was the inspiration for their work? Because the weren’t there. That’s why.
Again...if Reilly had the capabilities to produce as many weapons as you claim....they would’ve been used to arm her and his majesty’s armies in the Great War, the boer war, etc. Yet......they didn’t receive a single significant government contract to produce anything of value. Holland’s, Purdeys , and a myriad of other secured contracts to produce all sorts of wartime implements. Weird isn’t it.
Lef....I have posted pictures of a half dozen Enflieds, a dozen Sniders made by Reilly. I've posted pictures of a dozen non SN'd Reilly's used by the Yoemanry. I've posted the history of the Green Brothers breech loaders which competed for the 1864 breech loader contract and finished second to which he had exclusive rights to manufacture, the Prince breech loader which he made and advocated, the Reilly-Comblain which also completed and to which he had UK manufacturing rights. I've posted Reilly made Martini-Henry's. But the Enflied factory at the time insisted on sending over parts to be assembled for the M-H's. He only SN'd one that I can find and that was very very early...Please read the above.

Boar war troops were using Martinis and the magazine fed new Long Lee-Enfields. (Some also still equipped with Sniders). There's one SMLE Enfield pictured with Reilly's name on it....but by that time the firm was very much in decline.

As for the Great War...come-on LeF....you know darned well Reilly went bankrupt in 1912.... when you write something like that...well...it sort of makes it look like you are desperate to disprove the thesis.

And he tried repeatedly to win a government contract. Please read the line. And how do you know they didn't receive a contract for something or other? The made cartridges for instance. There just are no records left.

As for milling machines...l discussed this above. Milling machines were used by factories building 1000 guns a week..part of the "American system." And Birmingham didn't start using them until the 1870's and 80's...see above. He was making what...2-3 a day and probably did not have a milling machine. I speculated that his workshops worked on the old system of templates... Birmingham could produce 100,000 guns a year using this system. but who knows?

And I don't care about this...I'm not "desperate." But the evidence is there. You can lead a horse to water. smile Let's see what develops. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it.

Edit for the record: Not only were those silly 19th century Englishmen fooled - what did they know - but Americans too!!..Even the used gun dealers were bamboozled.
"Forest and Stream" - December 30, 1880:
Ok, Argo. Ok. Do your research and let the people decide. That’s how it works. You don’t get to just TELL us your opinion and then expect us to take it as a bold faced fact with the only evidence being a two sentence statement that says Reilly manufactured a gun during the golden age of British gunmaking. Just know this....the discrepancies I’ve pointed out are the questions that will have to have definitive answers for, or you’ll never convince the masses. We shall see.
There’s a lot of us here on this forum that aren’t at all convinced...regardless of all the volumes of minutia that you’ve posted in this thread. When or if you or someone else provides undeniable, empirical, definitive proof and not opinion and hearsay, I’ll be the first to congratulate you.
"Ludi incipiant"..!!

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/a-new-history-of-e-m-reilly
Great article, Gene, looking forward to Part Two.
Gene,

Congrats!!

Ken
Thanks. For a sneak preview of Part II...and for elements edited out for space reasons...you can always read the original on p. 20 above. It includes a chart for dating Reilly SN's. The extant Reilly guns add more detail to this chart on p.22 above. (both moved to p.33 below)

I got into this to date my Reilly SN 34723 which turned out to be, so far, the last extant Reilly with 16 New Oxford Street on the rib. The history came as a bi-product.

34723
Ah, press on & remain ever stalwart.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Raimey, By the late 1890's....purportedly....100% of London proofed Damascus barrels were made in Ličge. So does that make the barrels of SN 34723 (1898) French speakers? How can I tell? Je parle en Francais toujour avec les trucs juste devant un tir. "Allez mes infants, faisez tes travail!." It doesn't seem to work!!
Yes, dig young'uns, dig. I would say that that London gave up the ghost earlier & sourced the Birmingham mechanics, who had well established rough tube sourcing lines to Ličge. 1st, just rough tubes finished by Birmingham mechanics then probably something closer to finished tubes. One might look @ the British import laws to see if the U.S. of A. patterned their >>rough tube<< verbiage(reduced rates for >>rough bore tubes<<) after the Brits. More than likely the realization occurred in the early 1880s?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Originally Posted By: Argo44
I got into this to date my Reilly SN 34723 which turned out to be, so far, the last extant Reilly with 16 New Oxford Street on the rib. The history came as a bi-product.


The last one in existence with the address, or the last one produced that has that address on the rib, that has been found?

SRH
It's the last Reilly serial number in existence found so far with 16 New Oxford Street. So it's a "marker" gun in a way....marking 1898. If a later SN appears at some point with that address...the chains will have to move. This from p.22 (you'll note that this chart would have 34723 numbered about October 1898. However, most Reilly moves have been in summer):
-- August 1835 - moved from Holborn Bars to High Holborn
-- March 1847 - High Holborn to New Oxford Street.
-- January 1859 - opened 315 Oxford Street.
-- February 1868 - open 2 rue Scribe:
-- August 1885 - closed 2 rue Scribe:
-- 1898 - closed 16 New Oxford St. (month unknown)
-- 1903 - moved from 277 Oxford St. to 295 Oxford Street (month unknown)
-- June 1912 - bankrupt; moved from 295 Oxford Street.
History of Reilly moved to P. 45.
Extant gun list moved to p.44
Extant list moved to p.44
Trade/Case label compendium: Moved to p. 44: For those selling, researching Reilly's - a simple Reilly label cheat sheet to accompany the "New History" above. (It's discussed in more detail in two previous posts). This is not written in stone - a label for EM Reilly Gun Maker (Oct 59-Aug 60) (6 below) was used on a gun dated 1863 (#12960). But it will get you close:



"Outlier labels" - all with "Gun & Rifle Manufacturers" on the label


Reilly Presentation Case labels:- Note change from "Gun Manufacturers" to "Gun & Rifle Manufacturers" to "Gun & Rifle Makers"; All using the exact same Fonts over 40 years.



Add this label to the above chart. Apparently the "Reilly's Armoury House" was used for 315 Oxford Street from January 1859 to October 1859; This label was then used from October/November 1859 to August 1860 when "Gun Manufacturers" appear and the separate labels were combined into one. The above chart will be remade:



And add this to the chart....it'll likely slot in between the JC Reilly "Removed from Holborn" "business card" label 1847-48..and the Label with the 502 New Oxford Street sketch...first noticed on an 1851 Adams revolver case. (Edit: Holt's believes this is a homemade label, not a printed one.)

==========================Moving the chains in the 7000 series numbers==================================
8186 - New last JC Reilly "7000" series gun. - "Veni Vidi Vici".

This gun just showed up - very similar to 8056. This gun increased by 130 guns the known total of the Reilly "7000" series numbers and required changing the dates on the blue labeled numbers and the history and gun total for each year 1848-57. But It's happened before...will happen again..when new "marker gun serial numbers" appear.

Officers going abroad purchased a Reilly military rifle for hunting, usually in military caliber, .577 in this time frame, so they could use service ammunition. This gun is built to .650. Perhaps he still used military powder charges but had it driving a bigger slug?
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/r...25-c-4ae44b8a5c

A GOOD .650 (FOR MINIE) SINGLE-SHOT MILITARY SPORTING RIFLE, serial no. 8186,
circa 1855, with browned ovoid 32in. barrel rifled in four grooves, the full-length flat sighting plane signed 'REILLY, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON', small dove-tailed blade fore-sight, elevating folding ladder rear-sight with additional standing notch and when folded concealing the Reilly motto 'VENI VIDI VICI' (I came, I saw, I conquered), plain colour hardened breech-block and top-tang with scroll engraved detail around the top-nail, plain colour hardened lock engraved with a martial trophy to the bar and a panel of scroll engraving to the tail, the bar further signed 'REILLY, LONDON', straight hand dark walnut three-quarter stock chequered at the wrist, blued iron furniture, short under-rib with turned throat and plain thimble, brass tipped iron ramrod and 'Brunswick' style bayonet bar to muzzle, much original finish remaining
Other Notes: This rifle is almost certainly a British Officer's private purchase piece.






(I've never seen Flag, shield, drum engraving on a Reilly - was it special ordered? Presented as a shooting prize?)

"Alea iacta est"..... Reilly - Part II

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/the-life-of-reilly
Originally Posted By: Argo44
"Alea iacta est"..... Reilly - Part II

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/the-life-of-reilly


Excellent, thanks! A good read, and I hope it encourages owners of Reilly guns to come forward with information.
This is in response to one of Argo's observations about Damascus barrels.

The John Rigby & Co barrel records for 1886 to 1936 survived multiple changes of ownership. This is some of what they tell us -

Rigby installed its last Damascus barrel in 1906. All but five of the Damascus barrels
installed between 1886 and 1906 came from HL & Cie. The barrel material was described
as "Plain" "Crolle 4-stripe" and "Turkish 6-stripe." Of the other five, two came from "BB"
(one in 1888 and the other in 1895). Three Damascus barrels were fitted in 1894 from "Saunders/English."
==============================================================================
35554 - SN dated 1907 per chart
..........Sanity Check.


This gun just appeared in the October 2019 Morphy Catalog. SN 35554; E.M. Reilly & Co., 295 Oxford St., London on the barrels. It is a double rifle chambered for .500/.465 Nitro Express.

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_C__...-LOT473830.aspx

In the date chart, SN 35554 would have been numbered in late 1907. The .500/465 Nitro Express is a large bore centerfire rifle cartridge developed by Holland & Holland and introduced in 1907. This will be added to the list of "Sanity Checks.". (Note: Morphy dates the gun as "1912"..Reilly went bankrupt in 1912; I've dated it late 1907 which seems probable.)





It's interesting to compare the engraving on 35554 to that on 35493 - I looks like the same engraver using the same style:

35493 (former Terry Buffum gun)
This is my first post here, and I came on to add another E.M. Reilly serial-numbered firearm. I recently was given custody of about 300 firearms, almost all are WWI era or 19th century. A family had their uncle die, and he had all of these firearms in his house, or in a museum in South Carolina. The family wanted to know if I could research the firearms, and then sell them for the family.

So, this has kept me busy for awhile. The Reilly firearm I have is what appears to be an officer model Pattern 1858 Enfield. The serial number engraved on the trigger guard is 12088. The engraving on the barrel is all but rubbed out, so I cannot make out the address. Using a set of calipers, the muzzle of the barrel is .45 caliber.

I cannot tell if the rifle has been "sporterized" with the forestock being removed from the rifle, or if it was made that way. The ramrod is just a metal rod, so it does not appear to be the original ramrod.

I am trying to figure out the price of this rifle so I can sell it online for the family. I do not make a dime on any of these rifles I sell for them, and my payment was just to let me choose one of the 300. I chose a very nice Remington Rolling Block in .43 Spanish caliber.

Unfortunately, I can't post any photos. I tried to find the "gallery" section of this site, but that is a no-go for me. I read directions that say to link to a url of a site with the photos, but I don't have a web page, just Facebook page. So until I figure out how to upload the photos, this message will have to be without pictures


Patrick O'Kelley
goober.com@juno.com
Author of the "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" series,
Francis Marion's Orderly Book,
and Triple Canopy, Sniper in Grenada
Available at http://tinyurl.com/bluehousetavern
Welcome to the doublegunshop forum Patrick. We have some Reilly experts here...Geo
Welcome Patrick. And thanks for the info on 12088. I can walk you through how to post or you can send them to me in an e-mail (sent via PM) and I'lll post it for you.

Here are my thoughts on the gun. 12088 was almost certainly numbered the summer of 1861. It is most likely a .451 cal. rifle built on the Enfield pattern. The sporting fore grip is likely original. Reilly made a ton of Enfields and Enfield clones during this tine; the Civil War was raging - Enfields flew off the order books. Plus in 1859 in the face of a threatened invasion by Napoleon III, UK organized the Yoemanry militia who trained in locally raised units and armed themselves; Reilly was in the forefront of selling guns wholesale to these groups.

The address could be "Oxford Street," "502 New Oxford Street," or "315 and 502 Oxford Street," all three of which have been seen on post January 1859 Reilly made Enfield Muskets.

You will see a number of Military style Enfields with two or three bands tying the long stock forearm to the barrel. However, the .451 cal. guns almost all seemed to have been "sporterized" (excluding 12073 below which is a "3 band"). I have several more examples.

There are two points to make though: If he made the gun, it has a SN on it; If he only engraved and retailed it, it won't.

Why .451? Here are two Reillys from the chart above made in 1861 within a few days of your gun and almost surely nearly identical to your gun:

=========================================================
12073 - Which I've dated to summer 1861
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/e...0-c-9bb4d8f909#
A .451 PERCUSSION TARGET-RIFLE, MODEL 'MILITARY MATCH', serial no. 12073,
circa 1865, with round 36in. multi-groove barrel, the top at breech signed 'E.M. REILLY & CO. 315 & 502 OXFORD STREET, LONDON', replacement dove-tailed adjustable tunnel fore-sight (remnants of the original dove-tailed base remains), micro adjustable target rear-sight marked 'SUTHERLAND RIFLE SIGHT CO, NEW GLASGOW N.S.', octagonal breech section with squared breech-plug, moulded snail, scroll engraved top-tang with later Pedersoli vernier sight fitted behind, borderline and scroll engraved bar-action lock signed 'E.M. REILLY & CO. LONDON', sliding safe forwards of hammer, scroll engraved hammer breast, chequered walnut full-stock of military form, borderline and scroll engraved patchbox to right hand side of butt, iron furniture, three iron barrel bands, triple swivel set-up and jag-ended iron ramrod


=========================================================
12069 - again dated to summer 1861
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auctio...99-a561010b95f5

A .451 PERCUSSION VOLUNTEER MILITARY TARGET RIFLE
E.M. REILLY & CO., 315 & 502 OXFORD STREET, LONDON, SERIAL NO. 12069, CIRCA 1870
With 33 in. (84 cm.) barrel rifled with five grooves, sighted to 1000 yards and retaining some original faded blued finish, border and scroll engraved lock, walnut three-quarter stock with chequered grip and fore-end, the butt with vacant silver presentation roundel and small silver escutcheon, and border and scroll engraved iron mounts, London proof marks


=============================================
As to value.... start with the above two websites to see what they sold for. I'll post links here to several more Reilly Enfields and Enfield clones, some of which may still work, which may have prices sold posted:

13165
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...6&saletype=
E.M. REILLY & CO., LONDON
A .451 PERCUSSION MILITARY TARGET RIFLE, serial no. 13165,
Estimate Ł1,800-2,200

11716
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101246940
.577 Presentation Enfield Musket
(Asking $6,750)

11651
http://www.millersantiquesguide.com/items/48760/577-snider-sporting-rifle/
.577 Converted to Snider.

No SN
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/48/152/british-percussion-twoband-short-rifle
.577 two band Enfleid
Estimate Price: $3,500 - $4,750

11419
http://www.prices4antiques.com/Long-Gun-...r-E8972721.html
.577 two band Enfield

11227
http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/civilwarantiques/1306webcat.html
.577 three band Enfield
Asking price $3,500

10621
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auctio...87-a4f700ac96eb
.376 Sporterized Enfield clone - probably categorized as a "park rifle."

10619
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/print_sale.aspx?saleid=10537
A FINE .380 SINGLE-BARRELLED PERCUSSION PARK RIFLE BY REILLY, NO. 10619
Priced realized: Ł1,880 ($2,749)

Here's another probably .451 Enfield pattern Reilly from a Polish site - unfortunately no detail but you'll get the point.






There goes them Reilly worms again....
Looks like prima-facie evidence based on 3 guns shows Reilly was indeed one of only (now) three London gun makers stamping bore sizes on their guns prior to the 1855 UK ordinance requiring it (the other two being Greener and Manton). This is history!!:

Terry has gotten the barrel off his "6 bore" posted above. It is indeed SN 4573 - an "outlier" which I've dated to 1844 for a variety of reasons (I'm starting to think JC may have had still another number series - 4573, 5512, have at least the semblance of some order - but need a lot more evidence). There is a "7" on that massive barrel which is either bore size or preliminary bore size:


5512 firmly dated to 1847 has "16":


and Harry's 7869 firmly dated to 1855 (the year the provision became active).


2008 - J.C. Reilly labeled gun which I preliminarily dated 1856 per above - but could well be 1851 to 1855 in light of the new understanding that Reilly was stamping bore sizes on his guns from at least the early 1840's.


There are about 20 pre-1855 extant Reilly's. They are pictured above. Would appreciate the owners checking their proof marks. Thanks.
Argo44

I really respect the amount of original research you have undertaken on the firm of E M Reilly, especially in running to ground lots of newspaper notices with advertisements and address and so on.
Coming back to the subject of whether E M Reilly made his own guns.
One source which may provide some definitive evidence are the proof day books for The Worshipful Company of Gunmakers, London proof house. These are held in the library of the Guild Hall in central London. I have gone through some of these myself mainly for the periods of 1914-1918 and 1940-1945, also in connection with research I am doing on guns made by Vickers and Vickers Armstrong. I don't have the full date range of the ledgers to hand, but if you pick a period of time that you feel certain Reilly made guns not using Belgium tubes and the day books are available, then the name of Reilly will appear in those ledgers.
If not some other maker made his guns. With Reilly being based in London in would be natural for him to use the London proof house, rather than Birmingham.

Regards

AlanD
Sydney
Can you just walk into the Hall of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers or do you have to make an appointment? I will be in that vicinity in a week or so.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
The the Worshipful Gunmaker proof records records are held at the Guildhall Library.
No appointment necessary but I would check their website for opening hours.

https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/guildhall-library/collections/Pages/default.aspx

Regards

AlanD
Sydney
Many thanks Alan:

https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-t...ct-details.aspx

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
On p. 13 above I commented on the London Proof House. One book seemed to suggest Reilly joined in 1825 but that is unclear. Here is the print record of the copperplate references to members of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers, London. (the London proof house)..listing Reilly, Joseph Chas - 1825.

https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.278485/2015.278485.A-History_djvu.txt
"THE PROOF PLATE OF THE WORSHIPFUL COMPANY





Call attention to the second to last paragraph...where barrel maker X made barrels for Y and Z...and it's listed XY...or XZ, etc.

The problem is the plate is unclear and some of the makers marks going back to 1680 are not identified. Various makers joined the proof house at varying times; some prominent gun makers are never listed as members.

I wrote to the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers asking questions about Reilly - no answers. I believe David Trevallion is a member. I will repeat however, that per the research above, all Reilly guns with original barrels, which are serial numbered, were proofed in London. If it has a Birmingham proof, it is highly unlikely to have a Reilly SN...that is until Charles Riggs bought the name in 1922.

I'd love to do some research there looking at the day books since I can pinpoint certain Reillys to within a couple of weeks of manufacture...and in particular on Reilly SN guns in my database. Perhaps the next time I go overseas, I can arrange to stop in London for a day or two. Reilly also allegedly had a silver mark he took out in 1819 - I've been unable to find it.

And Raimey...I stumbled on a site for Purdey which listed the order of tasks in manufacturing Purdey guns which changed during the decades(When I was researching at what point in a gun's manufacture were the barrels blued/browned). This site mentioned about 1876 that "now we have Belgian barrels...". I cannot find the darned thing again. I'll keep looking. But that was a pretty damning statement coming from a Purdey historian.
To quote Hillary Clinton at this point what difference does it make ?
I've added several newly found Reilly's to the running list on p.33 above. This PINFIRE SN 11469 is now the earliest extant Reilly center-break gun found so far. I've dated it to about April 1860 - Jones underlever. Note....it did not sell in the September 2019 Holt's auction:

=========================================================
11469

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...3&saletype=
A 12-BORE PINFIRE DOUBLE-BARRELLED SPORTING-GUN SIGNED 'E.M. REILLY', serial no. 11469, circa 1870 (?), with signed 29 3/4in. barrels, engraved signed bar-action locks, walnut butt-stock and 'bar-in-wood splinter fore-end, finish worn
Estimate Ł500-700



It looks very similar to the gun pictured in the 1860 book Rifles and the Volunteer Rifle Corps.. Also, the several pages on Reilly's entry in the 1859 trials is historically interesting; The militia and home guard had to supply their own weapons and were far more experimental and forward looking than Ordinance. (Note the name "Reilly & Co." which was used in early-mid 1859; In October 1859 "E.M Reilly & Co." first appeared in advertisements; The gun in the book appears to use a Jones under-lever which was patented in September 1859).
https://books.google.com/books?id=gVIBAA...lly&f=false


Originally Posted By: Argo44



.........And Raimey...I stumbled on a site for Purdey which listed the order of tasks in manufacturing Purdey guns which changed during the decades(When I was researching at what point in a gun's manufacture were the barrels blued/browned). This site mentioned about 1876 that "now we have Belgian barrels...". I cannot find the darned thing again. I'll keep looking. But that was a pretty damning statement coming from a Purdey historian.


Many thanks Argo.

https://books.google.com/books?id=m3AHAQ...ker&f=false
1864 price comparison......

William Fullard of Clerkenwell is noted as being one of the last tube rollers in London?

https://books.google.com/books?id=LAsAAA...ker&f=false

But I contend that Birmingham mechanics were having components and or guns in the white sent straightaway from Liége to the Birmingham proof facility, an exception in the proof law. Of course there were pattern welded tubes in the rough sent to Birmingham which were finished & sold to London mechanics.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Dr. Drew lost his mind over Damascus steel...another feller you know over Randal knives.

Now you over a Reilly shootgun.

I hope this is not the most productive thing you've ever done in your life....for Gods sake man buy yourself a nicer gun and move on.

==========================================================================
10655.
....game changer!

After Diggory's articles, I was contacted by this New Zealand Gentleman with information about a beautiful Reilly pin-fire in extraordinary condition, a very significant gun, as follows:

I have been collecting antique guns since I was 16, starting with a flintlock which I still have. What attracted me to the Reilly was its beautiful engraving , it is in an old case which may be the same age as the gun.
I was interested to read in your article how the first extant sn for a Reilly with the name on the top rib was 11227 , this one being 10655, which I assumed might be around 1859, but may well be 1858 having looked at your research.
It is a 12 Gauge pinfire with 30" damascus barrels with much original brown still remaining. 46 1/2" overall.
Both locks have matching hammers and are in excellent working condition.
The top rib bears the inscription 'E.M.Reilly 502 New Oxford st. Londo The serial number also appears on the inside of the lock plates.


Some immediate thoughts:
1) the gun is the earliest SN'd Reilly with EM on the rib...but note..it is "E.M. Reilly" and not "E.M. Reilly & Co."
2) It is now the earliest extant Reilly center-break gun. Note the way the forearm is attached on this gun - pure Casimir Lefaucheux.
3) it has the SN on the inside of the lock-plates - never seen this before on a Reilly but no-one has ever looked.
4) with the SN on the lock-plates, no chance it was rebarrelled.
5) It is an under-lever and is clearly a copy of the Casimir Lefaucheux system!

10655 would date by my chart to Spring 1858, 18 months before "EM Reilly & Co." appeared in London newspaper ads (and the gun does not have "& Co." on the rib. There are several guns with only "Reilly" as a name on the rib with later serial numbers (see chart). But EM was clearly struggling to find a new name for the company after J.C. retired in September 1857 (see the previous posts). He did exhibit at Crystal Palace (1851) and Paris Universelle (1855) as "E.M. Reilly."

My impression was that early London breech loaders made by Lang, Reilly and Blanch followed the Lefaucheux design. And sure enough 10655 is almost a carbon copy of Lefaucheux's system.













Casimir Lefaucheux's center-break pin-fire. Lang in 1853 out and out stole the patent and changed it enough to get the British courts to toss out a lawsuit....Blanch at least was honest - he wrote that after the 1855 Paris Universelle Exposition, he sent a man to Paris to buy a Lefaucheux gun, brought it back and reverse engineered it. Looks like Reilly did too. 10655 is an important find...you just don't see many of these early English breech loaders...this goes back almost to the dawn of UK break-action guns - and French is spoken there.


=============================================================================
Evolution of early Reilly 1850's break-action, pin-fire guns


I've always been curious about the early evolution of British breech-loaders/break-action guns and of Reilly center-break guns specifically. Steve Nash wrote a very succinct history here:
https://www.internetgunclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=97

Basically, Casimir Lefaucheux exhibited at the 1851 Crystal Palace Exhibition. Lang, Reilly, Blanch paid attention. Lang went to work and created a variant in 1853 (actually made by E.C. Hodges and sold to Lang) that could escape patent infringement suits somehow (with help from British courts). But his variant languished.

After the 1855 Paris Universelle, Reilly changed his labels to promote "fusills a bascule" (French for break-action guns) and for "Improved Breech Loaders." (Prince patented his military breech loader in 1855....Reilly immediately obtained manufacturing rights). Speculation: Lang may have shown his Lefaucheux copy at Paris, which might have spurred the businessman Reilly into action.



Based on the label, one assumes Reilly was making break-action breech loaders by late 1855. But what type? 10655, which dates to early 1858, gives the answer....copies of the Lefaucheux patent - appropriately beefed up in places - with a different forearm.

10655


Sketch of one of the 4 Reilly shotguns used in the July 1859 trial from "Stonehenge"'s book:


Blanch, who worked closely with Reilly, gives more substance to this evolution:



The print is small so here is the above transcription (from William Blanch's obiturary)

"The Lefaucheux system of breech-loader was brought prominently forward in the 1851 Exhibition. The invention was not received with open arms, and it practically rested on three enterprising gun-makers to fight the battle of breech-loaders against the inert resistance of conservative influences, and also against the active opposition of those who have eyes only for the objections to the system.

At this time of day it is difficult to realize how great these objections really were. The gas-tight cartridge had not yet been evolved, and the difficulties of constructions were increased many times. A little thought will, therefore, manifest the wide sympathies of the gunmaker who pledged his reputation on the soundness of the breech-loading system. This honor is divided among the firms Lang, Reilly and Blanch, though, of course, others joined in as time went on.

It was the year 1855 that the late William Blanch went to Paris and purchased of Benniger, for Ł27 odd, one of the new fashioned guns. This he set to work to copy and improve. But he had also the more arduous task of teaching his men to make the new gun. The barrel maker had to be instructed how to make the lump instead of the screw breech-plug. The percussioner had to be broken-in to the task of making actions on the Lefaucheux system. Everything was new and the only moral support to the task came from the fact that Joseph Lang had some time previously entered the same field of research. The cartridges of Chaudun and Gevelot were imported from the Continent, English cartridge makers not being then existence. The following extract from "The Field" of October 1858 show the stage to which matters had arrived some three years later. "Lang, Reilly and Blanch have been overdone with orders, and more than one gentleman we know has had great difficulty in meeting with what he wanted. It is therefore simply absurd to attempt to pooh-pooh the invention.".........


Per above change in labels, a plausible assumption can be made that Reilly was making center-break breech loaders from at least late 1855 on - Purdey did not sell a center-break gun built on the Lefaucheux system in until 1858, 3 years later.
https://books.google.com/books?id=89JaDw...859&f=false

It's hard to overemphasize the flame wars which enveloped the British press over the issue. In UK at the time, advocating for an effeminate French piece of effrontery could get your man-hood questioned, your sanity challenged and your reputation threatened. William Greener (the elder) was prominent in despising the new invention and Diggory reports that son W.W., who favored center-break guns, and father fell out over the issue and didn't speak for years. One strongly suspects the same situation applied between Joseph Charles and Edward Michael Reilly at the same time and may have led to JC's early and abrupt retirement in Sep 57.

Reilly's first ads mentioning break-action guns (not counting his label change in late 1855) so far found were these two: first from an early 1857 "Peerage, Baronetage and Knightage of GB and Ireland,"
https://books.google.com/books?id=oN1kAA...lly&f=false
and the second from an early 1857 Bradshaw travel book (A June 1857 ad in "The Field" is similar to the second ad below):


The fact that by Fall 1858 Reilly, now managed by E.M., was "overdone with orders" for breech-loaders (per "The Field" above) probably explains why he opened 315 Oxford Street in January 1859. (And it was obviously not because he needed more retail sales space -the building was huge dwarfing Purdey next door).


When did Reilly change from primarily using the Lefaucheux system? It's pretty obvious that it was right after the Jones (a Birmingham gunsmith) under-lever "double-bite" system was patented in September 1859. The above book published in early 1860 shows a sketch of a Reilly using the Jones under-lever system. SN 11469 dated to April 1860 is another example. Reilly the businessman always jumped on the most sale-able system.

. Feb 1860 "Reilly & Co. (from pre-Oct 1859 . . . . .Note the forearm attachment different from Lefaucheux .11469 - April 1860


Therefore, 10655 answers a lot of questions on the evolution of Reilly breech-loader, break-action design. Notice in all this there is not a mention of Birmingham...the promotion of the breech loader in UK for the first 5 years after Crystal Palace looked to be at the instance of three London gunmakers.

For skeptics who say that Reilly did not make these guns:
-- Who in Birmingham at this time was making breech-loaders - 1855-1858?
-- Who do you think made these guns for Reilly if he didn't do it? (And I'm thinking Reilly made the guns for Blanch. Reilly had his guns at the 1858 and 1859 highly publicized trials run by "The Field" - Blanch wasn't there).
-- And no one said during these trials that the guns he presented weren't his.
One prominent poster here who knows a lot about guns has said flat-out that he knows 100% that Reilly was making muzzle loaders - well if he could make a breech-plug, why couldn't he make a lump? Welcome comments and am willing to discuss the issue - it's important UK gun history.


Edit: I have been been told by PM that lots of gunmakers in Birmingham could make guns for Reilly. We've discussed this many times - WC Scott, etc. - but please note that this is not the point.
-- The question asked above is,
"Who, if anyone, in Birmingham could make a center-break breech-loader for Reilly in 1855?" The question is a serious one; Stonehenge mentions one Birmingham gunmaker making center-break guns in 1859 (Elliot who participated in the July 1859 trials).
-- The corollary question is,
"Who might have made 10655, the center-break gun above), for Reilly in Spring 1858, if Reilly did not do it."
-- And, when did center-break breech-loaders actually start to be made in quantity in Birmingham and by whom?
The literature on the early-mid 1850's is pretty clear that it was Lang, Reilly and Blanch who put their reputations on the line to promote the new guns. So the question is historical and important - and I'm not being "snarky." (I suspect Steve Nash can answer this question - and by the way, he owns a Reilly)


Whatever, It is clear that British break-action guns spoke French originally...shades of William the Conquerer...full circle to 1890 when all Damascus in Uk was apparently speaking French....Belgian Walloon dialect.

Of course information on the type of center-break guns Reilly was making in the mid-1850's was right there all along, just unnoticed. Here are the results of the July 1859 trials shoot-off conducted by "The Field" comparing muzzleloaders and breech-loaders (a previous trial was held in April 1858 in which Reilly participated)...."Reilly, London" is listed as using the "Lefaucheux" system of breech-loader, entering 4 guns in each bore from 12 to 16; "The Field" editor particularly praised the 16 bore.



https://books.google.com/books?id=inQCAA...858&f=false

(Note that Prince bolt action breech loaders were in the trial. I didn't realize that Prince made guns in a shotgun gauge. At least two Reilly Serial Numbered Princes are pictured in this line. Prince was in partnership with Green until late 1859...Green then went his own way and created his own breech-loader to which Reilly obtained manufacturing rights in 1864 per a long post above.). A description of these guns including Needham's patent bolt action breech loader, Bastin's patent, etc. can be read here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=6ftIAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA298&lpg=PA298&dq=needham%27s+breech+loading+pattern&source=bl&ots=abzRRlyFTN&sig=ACfU3U2h2urMWEr7l9K2j-1jUV9y0p-5Bw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjU9rL2mrvlAhXDwFkKHbEJAlAQ6AEwFHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=needham's%20breech%20loading%20pattern&f=false

==========================================================================
New early Reilly label for 315 Oxford Street


This nice Beaumont-Adams percussion revolver has a unique label for 315 Oxford Street. The label must have been used after the company name changed to E.M. Reilly & Co. in late October 1859 up to August 1860 when "Gun Manufacturers" appeared and the sketch of the building disappeared from the 502 New Oxford St. labels. It's the first of its kind I've seen:
http://www.shilohrelics.com/cgi-bin/display_item.asp?121853



The interesting thing is, the label is for E.M. Reilly & Co., Armoury House, 315 Oxford Street; yet the name on the rib is E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street. The label still has the medals from 1851 Crystal Palace Exposition and 1855 Paris Exposition Universelle. Note "Gun Manufactory" used to describe Armoury House.

This was the label for 315 Oxford street used apparently used from January 1859 when Armoury House was opened up to October 1859 when the above label took over. (The word "apparently" is used because the below label is a reproduction; it still has "fusils a bascule" on it):

Also, believe this is the Joseph Charles Reilly silversmith mark registered in 1818. It is mis-named in the UK catalog as "John Charles Reilly." (You don't just walk in and "get" a silver makers mark....there is a step by step process and your expertise has to be proven; Nobody was making that silver for him. Why does this matter? What came afterwards).
http://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Makers/London-JC-JF.html#JC

==============================================================================
1825 Start point for Reilly number - Proof of method.:

The numbering chart of Reilly serial numbers begins hypothetically in 1825 because one publication said he joined the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers that year (not confirmed). The first Reilly advertisement for his own guns in the London press appeared in 1827. Here is an 1825 list of London gunmakers. Reilly is NOT there. It's a negative but that can be a positive.

Oh, to have been around London in the 1850s and experience first-hand the technological advances and geopolitics of that time...

Fortunately we do have limited contemporary information sources to chronicle these events, and the guns themselves add to the ever-building narrative. Argo44, you've recently added really good information on this early period, and the published adverts and case labels are very informative.

Reilly was definitely prominent in the very early adoption of the French breech-loader, with Joseph Lang and John Blanch. Reilly was one of the very few London makers to enter their pinfire guns in the Field trials of 1858 and 1859, but all three were building pinfires before that. The earliest British pinfires (pre-1860) all appear to follow the design of Lang's first offering (1852-53?), with a single-bite attachment and forward-facing underlever, and often fairly thin fences and short action bars. Lang's pattern also included a assisted-opening stud rising from the action bar, though this feature was never patented. Not the mechanically strongest of designs, but good enough for the times. The New Zealand example of a Reilly of this type is a joy to look at. While not clear from the photos, I would bet it has a single-bite attachment, and from its characteristics I would certainly date it from the 1850s. I can just about make out the Lang assisted-opening stud on the top edge of the picture showing the serial number on the action bar.

I am fortunate to have obtained three single-bite, forward-underlever pinfire guns, very much like the New Zealand Reilly: a Barnett of London, a John Blissett of London, and a Hugh Snowie of Inverness. For the sake of keeping this thread focussed on Reilly guns, I won't post pictures here.

Lieutenant-Colonel Peter Hawker, esteemed author of Instructions to young sportsmen in all that relates to guns and shooting, stated in its 9th edition (1844) that breech-loaders were "a horrid ancient invention, revived by foreign makers, that is dangerous in the extreme”. By the publication of the 11th edition fifteen years later (1859), Hawker’s opinion changed dramatically from denouncing breech-loaders to writing about the breech-loading gun in very favourable terms:

“In the first place, it is more safely, more easily, and more expeditiously loaded: more safely, because the peril consequent on a discharge, whilst ramming down an ordinary muzzle-loader, is entirely obviated: more easily and more expeditiously, because it requires only a moment to insert a cartridge. It is also more convenient; because cartridges can be removed, for the purposes of safety, or changed, when a different size of shot is required. The barrels are not so quickly fouled, and, when fouled, are more easily cleaned than those of the muzzle-loader. Overloading, and the liabilities arising therefrom, are obviated. The trouble, and occasional risk, consequent on drawing a charge, are removed: and accidents prevented from tow, or any other material capable of ignition, being left in the breech. A further advantage, arising from the insertion of the cartridge at the breech, consists in the certainty as to the amount and quality of the powder, which cannot be the case on a damp and foggy day with the muzzle-loader; when the powder falling from the powder-horn must be deteriorated, not only in its passage down the barrel, but also by the additional amount of moisture which is forced upon it by the wad, which, of course, carries all the moisture within the barrel down upon the powder. Guns on this principle, can be loaded with ease by sportsmen or soldiers lying on the ground.”

Hawker had nice things to say about Lang’s design:

“On Lang's method, the whole gun is not so heavy as an ordinary muzzle loader; for although the barrels may be somewhat more solid, there is neither ramrod nor heel-plate; the barrels are united to and partially liberated from the stock, by an easy movement of a lever working on a pivot immediately underneath the stock, which, when in a state of repose, from its neat adaptation to the stock, appears as if it were a fixture, and produces no inconvenience or unpleasantness in the handling. A slight effort moves and at the same time securely replaces it. When the lever is moved, for the purpose of loading, the barrels decline by their own weight, and conveniently expose the breech end for the easy insertion of the cartridges. To perform this operation and replace the barrels, is the affair of two or three seconds; and, as the striker or cock would not reach the pin which explodes the cap unless the barrels were properly, i. e. securely placed, no risk is incurred by haste or carelessness.”

The first British pinfire guns were also being admired in France. The Exposition Universelle des produits de l'Agriculture, de l'Industrie et des Beaux-Arts de Paris 1855 was an international exhibition held on the Champs-Élysées in Paris from 15 May to 15 November 1855, to rival the Great Exhibition of 1851. Over five million visitors examined the objects on display. The “military arts” portion included exhibits of guns from French and foreign makers. Joseph Lang earned a First Class medal for his exhibit (No. 851), which included his pinfire gun, which was noted for the quality of its workmanship. It was also remarked, in 1856, that all French gunmakers were building Lefaucheux-type pinfire guns at this time. (Reference: Anon., 1856. Exposition Universelle de 1855, Rapports du jury mixte international, Tome II. Imprimerie Impériale, Paris.)

At some point in the 1850s an improvement to the Lefaucheux design was made by the Parisian gunmaker Beatus Béringer, who reversed the placement of the breech-fastening lever to over the trigger guard loop (to what we call the lever-over-guard). Whether London gunmakers copied this or came up with it themselves, is a matter of speculation. What is clear is that rearward-lever, single-bite guns were being made, which didn't infringe Henry Jones' 1859 patent for an interrupted-screw, double-bite attachment, with the lever over the trigger guard.

Of this type of action I have a Charles F. Niebour of Uxbridge, a Harris Holland of London, a William Moore & Co. of London, and the Joseph Lang. The Niebour was actioned by E.C. Hodges, and with Uxbridge at the time being on the outskirts, it might be considered a London gun.

So, mid- to late- 1850s perhaps all British pinfires have the forward-facing underlever and single-bite actions. At some point in the 1850s single-bite rearward-facing underlevers started to appear in British guns, continuing to be made using this pattern into the early 1860s. I used to think that the single-bite underlever design stopped being made when the better Jones design was available, but I have a Lang pinfire on this pattern that, according to the order book, was made in 1867.

When the Jones patent lapsed in 1862, a strong and simplified design was within every maker's reach, and the majority of pinfire guns I've come across use this fastening method (and date from after 1862). This might mark the point that Birmingham really got involved in a big way making pin-fire guns and actions. Guns not using the Jones design tended to be by makers pushing proprietary inert designs, such as J.D. Dougall's Lockfast, and later in the 1860s the proprietary snap-actions by the likes of William Powell, Cogswell & Harrison, Westley Richards, Thomas Horsley, J.V. Needham, Parker Field & Sons etc. Whether they made their actions entirely in-house or had them made in the Birmingham gun quarter is another subject for speculation.

When did Birmingham start making patent-free Jones-type guns? That's easy to answer. But when did Birmingham start making pinfire guns? That is much harder to nail down. There was likely not very much demand prior to 1860, though two Birmingham makers entered pin-fire guns in the Field trial of 1858 (Moore & Harris, Christopher Penrhyn Aston) and one in the Trial of 1859 (Eliot). As to provincial pinfire makers entered in the trials (Edwin Ladmore of Hereford, William Egan of Bradford, Philip Hast of Colchester), I have not been able to find out anything about the guns they entered. I am guessing that all of the British-made pinfires entered in the trials (except one) were single-bite guns with forward-facing underlevers, as nothing was remarked about there being differences between them. The Reilly gun pictured in Walsh's ('Stonehenge') book confirms it was the single-bite kind.

Argo44, in your post of 25 October, you wrote: "When did Reilly change from primarily using the Lefaucheux system? It's pretty obvious that it was right after the Jones (a Birmingham gunsmith) under-lever "double-bite" system was patented in September 1859. The above book published in early 1860 shows a sketch of a Reilly using the Jones under-lever system. SN 11469 dated to April 1860 is another example. Reilly the businessman always jumped on the most sale-able system." I would just point out that the Reilly gun in the advertisement appears to be a single-bite gun, so not of the Jones type. Do you know if Reilly gun No. 11469 has a single-bite action? It could well be that Reilly made rearward-lever single-bite guns (as other London makers were doing) in the late 1850s before switching to Jones-type double-bite actions post-1862.

I can't help but finish my ramblings by commenting on the original Lefaucheux gun exhibited in London in 1851. It had a double-bite, interrupted-screw action, a stronger design than the first British copy. The Jones patent of 1859 basically reverted to the original configuration.

Many years ago I passed on a Reilly pinfire with the ring-tipped underlever, because the condition was poor. This was before I realized that all pinfire guns have value in telling some aspect of the story. Stupid me.

Keep up the research!
Steve Nash and Argo, thanks so much for your thoughts. I love the art and mechanisms of the old pinfires and actually enjoy shooting them. I am learning that the pinfires went somewhat before 1860, which is the , I thought, the starting date.
Steve, many thanks for that erudite and extremely well-written and informative history...I learned a lot...not the least about the original Lefaucheux at the 1851 Crystal Palace Exposition and the presence of Lang's pin-fire at the 1855 Paris Universelle...I had looked in vain for this information. I would love to find out what Reilly exhibited...It was a triumph for him..all his exhibits were sold and numerous orders were booked. Did he have a center-break gun there?

I'll assume that the April 1860 Reilly pin-fire SN 11469 and possibly the over-trigger-guard levered Reilly pictured in the early 1860 book might not have been Jones under-levers after all but rather copies of Béringer's improvement? Need additional info on 11469 which might answer the question. I have written to Holt's re the question "single bite" or double. Holts may retain information on the gun. Also, It was a little amazing that 11469 didn't sell. It was estimated at between Ł500-700
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...3&saletype=

I will say that Reilly business model was - sell cheap, fill orders rapidly, but make quality. If he could avoid patent payments, he would. It was the "margins" which were important (interesting and very modern business model; An address engraving mistake? Purdey would blanch - Reilly? "Push it out the door - it shoots fine"). He made Jones under levers up into the 1880's..no patent problem. So I suspect he didn't make a Jones under-lever (unless specifically ordered) until after the lapse of the patent (by accident) in 1862. But..11469 is interesting...we'll see what Holt's has to say.

I've told Dean Fletcher, the New Zealand gentleman who owns 10655, that his gun has excited interest here. I can ask him for more photos if it would help.

Stonehenge's 1859 book: https://archive.org/details/shot-gunsporting00walsrich/page/n1
Personally I think you've lost your mind.
==================================================================================
Pinfires still going strong in 1867-1871-1880


Two references to Reilly pinfires in 1867




13816 - dated 1865 per the chart: Barnaby's Auction: E M REILLY & Co. AB.12B PINFIRE SHOTGUN No.13816, ONE HAMMER MISSING.
https://www.barnebys.com/auctions/lot/e-...sing-qfzvexayla


George L's 4 bore 15629 (dated 1869) - originally a pin-fire, converted to centerfire.


16810 - 1871 per my chart:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/e...49-c-a8759a5cd2
A 12-BORE PINFIRE DOUBLE-BARRELLED SPORTING GUN WITH CARTRIDGE LIFTER, serial no. 16810,
circa 1870, with rebrowned 30in. barrels, the top-rib engraved 'E.M. REILLY & CO, NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON & RUE SCRIBE PARIS', unusual cartridge lifter formed from the rear portion of the rib and molded to the shape of the breech-ends, plain borderline engraved action, plain borderline engraved bar-action locks signed 'E.M. REILLY & CO' in a banner, plain hammers, chequered walnut straight-hand butt-stock, iron heel-plate, 'Jones' swing under-lever opening and chequered splinter fore-end (action and locks brushed bright)


And in 1880.....Note: Wildfowler visited Reilly's "Establishment"..... The extractor mechanism Wildfowler describes sounds like the Perks extractor on my 16 bore 27853.
https://books.google.com/books?id=WUMCAA...ire&f=false

So Argo, when are you going to write the definitive article (or book) on Reilly? It would be a great addition to any serious collector's library. I'll bet Dan Cote at Double Gun Journal would take a multi-issue article from you with great pleasure.
I sent the article to DGJ and Dan Cote more than a year ago....never heard back. So in August and September Diggory Hadoke published a good bit of it in two parts in his new on-line magazine "Vintagegunjournal."

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/a-new-history-of-e-m-reilly
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/the-life-of-reilly

The dating chart has not been published yet. After the above two articles appeared, I asked Dan by email if he'd be interested in publishing the chart; he replied that "He'd let Diggory do this." Frankly I don't know why he wasn't interested in the original article. He had published John Cambell's article on Reilly in Summer 2015...and my research shows a good bit of that article to be erroneous. (This is not a dig at John, all writings on Reilly for the past 75 years have been filled with errors including Brown and Boothroyd). Perhaps Dan was just burned out on Reilly.

Diggory tells me he will ultimately publish the chart which may be the most useful part of the article, enabling an owner or prospective buyer to date his gun, often to within a few months.

At some point I will write this as a pamphlet or book....probably starting with the article then breaking the paragraphs down into chapters to show the footnotes and reasoning. I do have a number of things still to research though, so for now, I dump it all onto this line. I have changed the "New History" a bit as new conclusions come to light. I'll soon move the history and the extant gun chart forward again from p.33 and 34. And thanks for the compliment.

Gene Williams
Gene, keep up the good work! I’ll definitely order your Reilly book.

Back to the discussion. Defining exactly when the pinfire came and went is a tricky proposition. The only certain date is 1836, when Casimir Lefaucheux patented the pinfire cartridge in France. There is the anecdote whereby a Lefaucheux gun of the 1836 type was said to have been imported into Britain in 1844 by the noted firm of Wilkinson and Company of Pall Mall, London, successors in business to the great Henry Nock. The story goes that despite the reputation of the firm, no one could be persuaded to use the gun.

It is not unreasonable to think that someone in Britain would have brought back a Lefaucheux-type breechloader prior to 1851, together with the necessary cartridges. Lieutenant-Colonel Peter Hawker’s views on the gun at the time probably deterred many, but perhaps not all. There would not have been any impetus for Benjamin Houllier to improve the pinfire cartridge if it was not in demand. Contemporary sources affirm that by the 1850s all French gunmakers were producing pinfire guns, so availability of the guns and cartridges would be easy for anyone crossing the Channel.

The year 1851 is important, for the pinfire gun and pepperbox exhibited at the Great Exhibition of the Industry of all Nations in London’s Crystal Palace, and illustrated in The Illustrated London News in its 5 July edition. The timeline of what follows next is not so clear. Joseph Lang offered his version of the pinfire sometime afterwards, in 1852 or 1853. The earliest record I can find is for 1855, but clearly Lang (and perhaps Reilly and Blanch) was producing them prior to this. There may also have been an influx of Continental guns to meet the demand. Sportsmen were using British or Continental pinfires, otherwise there would not have been any sizeable reaction to the letter in The Field in December 1856, which started the heated fanboy debate over the merits of muzzle-loaders versus pinfires that led to the two Field trials of 1858 and 1859.



We are still not talking large numbers of guns in circulation, as makers were not equipped to produce large quantities of bespoke sporting guns, and demand would have been limited to land-owners with free time, and competitive pigeon shooters. Game at this time was walked-up. It was the quick-loading feature of the breech-loader that enabled the development of driven shoots, which began to appear at shooting estates in the late 1850s. Looking at a number of important maker’s records around the late 1850s, it was not unusual for 100 serial numbers to be used in a year, which might include sporting guns, rifles and pistols. Even assuming that more than half might be shotguns, this is still a limited number of makers producing a limited number of guns for a limited number of shooting opportunities. With the advent of driven shooting in the social calendar and the emergence of railways to take sportsmen to distant shooting grounds, it is not surprising to see the demand for pinfires increasing throughout the 1860s, with more and more makers meeting that demand. Excluding makers identified as makers of rifles and pistols only, I’ve counted over 900 gunmakers in business for at least part of the period 1855-1870 that might have built a pinfire sporting gun. Of course, there will be some of these that ceased business while never having made a breech-loader, and others that may have only built centre-fire guns which appeared at the same time; what is certain is that from a handful of mostly-London makers in the mid-1850s the number grew to several hundred makers by the end of the 1860s.

Talking specific examples, Boss & Co. built 735 pinfires between 1858 and 1871; John Dickson & Son produced 430 pinfires starting in 1859, and only 5 were built in 1875. Unfortunately most surviving record or order books simply distinguish between breech-loaders and muzzle-loaders, without specifying what type of breech-loader was delivered, either pin- or centre-fire. These numbers agree with the 1871 observations of William Wellington Greener that 100 centre-fire guns were being made for every pin-fire (indicating that pinfires were still being built).

It is worth looking at contemporary writings. Not surprisingly, John B. Johnson’s 1851 book The Gun and How To Use It makes no mention of breech-loaders, and Robert Blakey’s Shooting: A Manual of Practical Information on this Branch of British Field Sports (1854) also makes no mention of breech-loaders. The second edition of John Henry Walsh’s book Manual of British Rural Sports (1856) mentions and illustrates Lang’s pinfire, and adds: “The advantages of this gun are manifest, and to all those who value rapid and safe loading as highly as it deserves, I should strongly recommend a trial or it, since it appears to me to supply a great desideratum, and if as good in practice as it appears to me to be theoretically perfect, its invention will be as great an era in gun-making as that of the detonator itself. Time, however, and time alone, must decide its merits.” The same text was repeated in later editions (e.g. the 5th edition of 1861)

J. D. Dougall wrote in the conclusion of his 1857 book Shooting Simplified: A Concise Treatise on Guns and Shooting: “Another novelty is the rapid introduction of breechloading firearms. These have been in common use in France for the last fifteen years, and are said to have stood the test of that period. It is yet immature to decide upon their merits. They are strongly advocated as excellent by many sportsmen, but the strength of our powder is so much greater than that of the French or Belgian, that they have still to pass through a severe ordeal before receiving the full confidence of British sportsmen. How long the jointing at the breech end may continue to withstand the tremendous vibrations of our heavy charges, time alone can show.” He also added: “One of the very best judges of firearms, a gentleman of scientific attainments in these matters, for whom the author has had the honour to make many guns, writes to him in these terms, "In a few years muzzle loaders will be, as flint locks are now, in the category of things that were."”

In Dougall’s 1875 book, Shooting: Its Appliances, Practice and Purpose, written largely to promote his Lockfast design, he wrote: “In the year 1856 was introduced from the Continent that most daring alteration—the sporting breechloader—which has carried the day against its old competitor, in so far as sportsmen in this country are concerned, although for rough, outlying, or foreign work, the muzzle-loader may, for a time, hold its own. That the breech-loaders, as originally introduced, wore defective, and open to many objections, cannot be gainsaid ; and although, on their construction, it was plain that they might be equal to the requirements of the weak gunpowder and light charging of the Continent, still they were not equal to our strong powder and severe work. This proved itself by their rapid deterioration at the jointing, and it soon became clear that that jointing was insufficient. As is not uncommon, the ingenuity of the foreign inventor has been improved upon in this country. Our mechanists, while less inventive, surpass those of the Continent in carrying out new modes of construction—in all branches of manufacture—to a satisfactory end.”

From these contemporary writings it looks like mid-1850 is when the breech-loader, the pinfire, starts to attract attention from the few in use at the time. By 1856 sportsmen are being encouraged to try them, and in 1857 terms like ‘rapid introduction’ are being used; by the 1870s no one is questioning the breech-loader, but this includes the centre-fire, which also appeared in Britain around 1856. The Trials of 1858 and 1859 undoubtedly popularized and promoted the pinfire, and the lapse of Henry Jones’ patent for the double screw grip action in September 1862 meant it was a lot easier for any maker to built strong guns without paying royalties. Demand for pinfires decreased towards the end of the 1860s as the centre-fire started to dominate, and by the early 1870s demand for pinfires dwindled to just a few. It was in the late 1860s that dual-fire guns emerged, which could fire both pinfire and centrefire cartridges. This practice did not continue for very long.

A shooter with a pinfire gun faced one of three choices in the 1870s: continue using it, converting it to centre-fire, or relegating it to a corner of the gun room. A gun represented a sizeable investment, so only the very well-heeled could set a usable gun aside and buy another; 25 guineas was more than an annual salary for many, and the best makers could command prices of 50-60 guineas for a pinfire. Cartridges were widely available, so if fashion was not a great concern, it made sense to keep on using it until it needed replacement. Conversion to centre-fire was not as complicated as conversion of a muzzle-loader to pinfire (again, the latest Double Gun Journal illustrates one of those), and without a doubt many pinfires were converted. Perhaps not surprisingly, a collector of pinfires will encounter pieces either completely worn out from years of hard use, or fairly intact ones where the owner could afford to retire them. While few new pinfires were being made in the early 1870s, I expect pinfires were commonly used in the field then and into the 1880s. They were certainly popular in Europe into the beginning of the 20th Century.
Steve, many thanks for that excellent and very knowledgeable response. I'd like to comment on three elements of it.

1). I've asked the question "who could have made Reilly center-break breech-loading guns in 1855-58" for a reason.
. . .-- The "urban-legend" has been that Reilly never-ever made a gun for its 90 years of existence, was just a retailer, and always put his name on outsourced finished guns.
. . .-- Lefusil and other knowledgeable posters state that of course Reilly made muzzle-loaders for 30 years or so...but never had any machinery at all (the contradiction is noted) and certainly couldn't produce a breech-loader. (and that those two huge buildings at 502 New Oxford Street and 315 Oxford Street were for some purpose other than manufacturing.)
. . .--The evidence from primary sources, however, indicates Reilly not only made his own guns, he may have been one of the few "vertical" gun making companies in London and certainly in the 1860's-70's was one of the largest gun making companies in the city employing dozens of people.

So the question of who made SN 10655 (April 1858) (and earlier Reilly center-break breech-loaders going back to 1855) is important to the history of Reilly in particular. From what I understand now, no-one in Birmingham in 1855-58 could have or would have made 10655 "in the white" for Reilly. So, if he did not make it himself, he had to have gone to Ličge for it or....what??.

2). Integral to the wide-spread adoption of the breech-loader from 1856-60 was the question of ammunition. I believe there was not a producer of pin-fire cartridges in England outside of Lancaster, who tried to corner the market by tying ammo to his own patented gun, up to 1860-61 and that the vast majority of pin-fire cartridges were imported from France during those years.


There was a lot of money to be made selling ammunition and predictably Reilly the businessman got into that sector very quickly. Reilly-made cartridges are still around which makes this Reilly patent interesting....John Baker was the head of his shop...there is a John Baker who was a gun maker later on...still working to identify him.



3). Finally here is a Reilly SN 10354. My chart dates that to 1857. It was a muzzle loader. It was converted to a Jones U-L center-fire break-action breech loader about 1885 (my estimation). The label is an "outlier" that has been pictured before on this line. Interesting - the owner must have loved those barrels...and the excellence of Reilly barrels has been commented on before - see above posts.
=========================================================
10354 Jones Underlever…. per conversion.

http://www.icollector.com/Cased-English-...och-2_i19846957

Cased English SxS double rifle by Reilly of London and converted by John Fry Derby, .400 Kynoch 2” caliber, 27” brown damascus barrels with matte rib fitted with triple folding rear sight and marked “Reilly 502 New Oxford Street London” and also“Converted BY John Fry Derby”; original barrels appear to have been silver soldered to a monoblock and a new receiver, underlever, hammers and stock provided during the conversion. The original gun likely was circa 1848 to 1858 with the conversion by Fry occurring sometime between 1895 and 1904 per a write-up provided by the consignor. Overall, the rifle appears to be in good condition as converted with a pleasing patina to metal surfaces; the bores are very good, the actionscrisp and the butt stock and forend overall good to very good; the casing is overall good with wood cleaning rod, cleaning brush and interior paper E. M. Reilly & Co. label; also accompanied with 40 Ballard Rifle and Cartridge, LLC .400 Kynoch 2” unprimed brass cartridge cases. (Antique). Est.: $1,500-$3,000.



The conversion was between 1895-1904 per a consigner write-up. But the address is still 502 New Oxford Street...which would normally mean it was done before 1885 when the 502 was generally dropped... (and had it been converted after 1898, 502 (16) was no longer a Reilly property).

The Capitol letters "G", "R", & "M" in this label are similar to those in H&H and Watson Bros from the same era:
Oh boy. One of the hardest things to do in discussing 19th Century British firearms is to give a certain answer!

“So the question of who made SN 10655 (April 1858) (and earlier Reilly center-break breech-loaders going back to 1855) is important to the history of Reilly in particular. From what I understand now, no-one in Birmingham in 1855-58 could have or would have made 10655 "in the white" for Reilly. So, if he did not make it himself, he had to have gone to Ličge for it or....what??.”

In first trying to answer the question of exactly who were making pinfires in the period 1855-1858, the 1858 Field trial is a start: C. P. Aston of Birmingham; Edwin Ladmore of Hereford; E. M. Reilly of London; Thomas Fletcher of Gloucester; and Moore & Harris of Birmingham. In the 1859 Trial there were pinfires from Prince & Green of London, William Rochester Pape of Newcastle, E. M. Reilly again, J. V. Needham of London, William Egan of Bradford, Elliot of Birmingham, Philip Hast of Colchester, and Joseph Lang of London. Crudgington & Baker state that according to Walsh, all of the pinfires at the 1859 Trial were of the Lang forward-underlever type. We know Joseph Lang (who started it all) and John Blanch were early promoters. In Boothroyd’s book Shotguns & Gunsmiths, the author illustrates a Lang pinfire of 1852, though sources disagree whether 1852 or 1853 (or later) was the actual start date. In John Blanch’s book, A Century of Guns (1909), Blanch states Reilly and Lang were the earliest firms to offer pinfire breech-loaders, and describes his first pinfire was in 1856, of the forward-underlever, single-bite type. I have an illustration of a single-bite forward underlever pinfire by Parker, Field & Sons. This maker had Queen Victoria’s royal warrant, which might explain the famous 1860 picture of a gamekeeper in Windsor Great Park with a forward-underlever pinfire gun. From guns that I have, I know Barnett of London, John Blissett of London, and Hugh Snowie of Inverness sold guns under their name on the original Lang pattern (forward underlever, single bite, rising stud). Smith & Curtis’s book The Pinfire System illustrates a rearward-facing underlever James Purdey pinfire that Purdey apparently confirmed was made in 1857; however this is contradicted in Richard Beaumont’s 1984 book Purdey’s The Guns and the Family, which states Purdey’s first pinfire was in 1858. It appears Westley Richards’ first doll’s head snap-action pinfire was in 1858.

I do have a rearward underlever, single bite pinfire by Charles Frederick Niebour of Uxbridge that dates from no later than 1859 (when he ceased business), and a very similar rearward underlever single bite pinfire by William Moore & Co., which might be of the same period though I have no means to determine a year for it. It is not unusual for early makers of small numbers of pinfires to not affix serial numbers. There is a double-lump design patented by Smith, Townsend and Williams in 1859 illustrated in Crudgington & Baker, which has appeared on pinfire guns by Thomas Blissett of Liverpool and Moore and Harris.

By 1859 there were others just starting to produce pinfires. This is when Boss & Co., under Stephen Grant, started producing them and in 1859 Boss sold 15 breech-loaders, out of their total output of 90 (to give an idea of how rapidly the market was changing, in 1860 Boss’s pinfire output was 74 out of 120, and in 1861 it was 72 out of 82). John Dickson & Son started producing pinfires in 1859 (though G. Boothroyd claimed they started in 1856).

By the time you get to the 1860s, this is where the patents proliferated and the number of makers greatly increased, and that’s a whole other area of discussion.

Back to 1855-1858. We know the above makers sold pinfires. The era of sporting guns being produced in factories is not for some years yet, production is still small, a handful of guns by each maker, often/usually with the help of specialized outworkers. Crudgington & Baker assert that prior to the 1858 Trials there were no more than a few hundred British-made pinfires in circulation, and I haven’t seen anything to contradict this. This is not from the lack of available gunmaking skill, as I imagine if you can build a muzzle-loader, you can build a breech-loader, if you have the right parts. Very few at the time would have known how to make the parts and action such a gun. The most famous actioner of his day would have been Edwin C. Hodges, the man who designed and built Lang’s first pinfire. As an outworker, Hodges made actions for the best gunmakers, and to maintain his reputation he often signed his work. My 1859 Niebour and @1859 Blissett have Hodges-signed actions. Hodges actioned pinfires for Boss & Co.. Hodges may have actioned pinfires for Lang, Reilly, Blanch and Parker, Field & Sons, and others. Unfortunately Hodges signed some actions behind the face instead of on the action bar, which can only be seen if the butt is removed. For others, such as Boss, Hodges’s name is recorded in the order books, with the details of other outworkers working on the gun. There is no complete record of who E. C. Hodges provided actions to.

Another who provided makers with pinfire actions based on the Lang pattern is Joseph Brazier of Wolverhampton, best known for his fantastic locks, but also a gun and pistol maker in his own rights. I have a fine single-bite forward-underlever pinfire by Barnett of London, a maker almost entirely known for their military and trade guns. This action of the gun is signed Joseph Brazier, so yet another example of a specialized outworker providing actions based on the Lang design.

Whether Reilly made his own actions in-house or whether he bought actions from outworkers like Hodges, Brazier or others might remain a mystery. A maker might make all parts in-house, or buy the parts from suppliers; build the gun entirely in-house or buy a complete or near-complete gun and do the final finishing. Some makers clearly did all of these, according to demand and manpower. I’m not sure it is possible to know for sure.

Here is an action forging, ready to be cut and filed!
[b][/b]
Steve, many thanks for that educational tour d'force. I hope you write your own book...and soon.

The New Zealand gentleman has had the lock plates off and hasn't reported a signature. I'm not sure if he's had the stock off...but for now, I'll assume that Hodges did not make the action. Given the paucity of firms making pin-fire breech loaders at the time, the presumption will remain that it is a Reilly-made product...until proven otherwise.

I was going to go to Paris after Thanksgiving with spouse. I thought I might spend a bit of time in the Mitterand library there hoping to find some information on Reilly's exhibit in the 1855 Universelle...but a general strike is scheduled for that time, the "Gilet Jaune" are in the streets, and I've cancelled the trip.
Thanks from me too, for that excellent an informative post, Steve.

SRH
You`ve amassed an impressive amount of information on Reilly,and this thread is a most interesting read ! Thankyou for sharing!
In wondering about the connection between London gunmakers and Ličge in the 1850's....the connection with Birmingham was definitely there, Trantor and Adams making revolves in Ličge....(Raimey has explored this in detail) - I read through this 1858 book.
https://books.google.com/books?id=hRsb2R...ege&f=false


The author labeled the breech loader and revolver "Aberrent Systems"...then spent 3 pages apologizing for even mentioning these in his book.


He did not discuss British-made center-break guns at all though he mentions that the system has found "some favor" in Britain (and he misspells "Lefaucheux").


He did spend a lot of time on the Prince bolt action breech loader and lauded it - and the book has the most complete explanation of the superiority of the Prince over the just adopted Enfield .577 rifle-musket.
I'm pretty sure Liege was a source for barrel tubes, to be later proofed in Britain.

British makers bought Belgian actions such as the Bastin action with sliding barrels (Google Purdey Bastin slide action for a fine example), to be made up in Britain. The Bastin action was used by a number of British makers, and it was one of the first non-Lefaucheux pinfire actions in Britain (a Francotte with Bastin action was used in the Trial of 1859). Some makers brought in barrelled actions (or possibly whole guns) from liege as well, with a British maker's name on the rib and Belgian action and barrel proofs as evidence. And some makers operated in both London and Liege, such as the Masu Brothers.
This is a site which contains a scrapbook of memorabilia compiled by John Blanch over the course of some 60 years. I wrote and obtained a circa 1840 J.C. Reilly advertisement posted on this line above about a year ago.
https://collections.royalarmouries.org/archive/rac-archive-391096.html

In view of the history written by Steve, I took another look at what might be in the notebooks. These entries look interesting and I'll attempt to obtain them:

This might be the bill of sale for the original Beringer center-break gun purchased by Blanch in 1855:
"p. 30 Bill with engraved bill-heading for Fusils Berenger, brevet S.G.D.G. Hippolyte Rochatte, eleve et successeur, 8 rue du Coq, St. Honore, for supply of 'Un fusil de Paris canons Leopold Bressard' and caps, primers and case to Monsieur Guy Christy. Change of address noted 'actuelllement 26 rue de la Monnaie, au coin de la rue de Rivoli', dated 22 Xbre 1855;"

An indication of Blanch's interest in center-break breech-loaders
"p. 28 Advertisement leaflet: Exposition Universelle de 1855. Fusils a bascule perfectionnes par E. Dufour... Chez Francis Marquis, arquebusier, 4 Boulevart des Italiens, Paris;"

"p. 12 Folding 'Plate 1' showing rotating chambered-breech firearms;

"p. 4 Fourteen page leaflet by Joseph Lang, Cockspur Street, London, 'On the advantages of breech-loading guns over the old system of loading with a rod, by one who has used them for years';"
Totally fascinating. Good luck with your research efforts! We are learning so much from them.

And I expect the Beringer bill is for a gun with barrels by Leopold Bernard, the greatest of the Parisian barrel makers. It is hard for modern eyes to decipher Victorian script!
Originally Posted By: Steve Nash
.....It is hard for modern eyes to decipher Victorian script!


Indeed, that calligraphy is all but a lot art. Although I cannot say I can pen it, I read it almost daily seeing the land notes for Alabama & Mississippi are penned in that script.

Any idea how many makers from the little British Isles from the period passed thru Ličge or St. Etienne on their walkabout?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
For those with much patience and an interest in the state of gunmaking in 1862 in Britain, France and Belgium, the following may be of interest.

The International of 1862, or Great London Exposition, was a world's fair held from 1 May to 1 November 1862, beside the gardens of the Royal Horticultural Society, South Kensington, on a site that now houses museums including the Natural History Museum and the Science Museum. It was a follow-up to the Great Exhibition of 1851, and the exposition was sponsored by the Royal Society of Arts, Manufactures and Trade, and featured over 28,000 exhibitors from 36 countries, representing a wide range of industry, technology, and the arts. The exhibition attracted about 6.1 million visitors. The Record of the International Exhibition, published in 1862 (Glasgow, W. MacKenzie publishers), contains a section written by John Rigby, of William & John Rigby, Dublin, describing the content of the gun exhibits, and the state of gunmaking. It is one of the better summaries of what was happening in 1862. And yes, E. M. Reilly does get a mention, for a pinfire he exhibited.

The following is the text of that section in its entirety. Apologies for transcription errors, of which there must be some.

Gene, if you don't want this clogging your thread, I can move it elsewhere. I think it does go some ways towards answering the question of just how much influence Continental makers had over British makers, and vice versa. There was a lot of technological exchange, despite the politics of the day!

RECORD OF THE INTERNATIONAL EXHIBITION, 1862.

2. FIREARMS.

By John Rigby, Esq., A.M., of Messrs. William & John Rigby, Dublin.

THE period which has elapsed since the Exhibition of 1851 has been marked by an extraordinary activity of invention in the department of firearms. That this activity should be wholly attributed to the stimulus supplied by the public display of foreign inventions on that occasion, We do not undertake to say; but there can be no doubt that from that year dates a period of unusually rapid change, and unusually rapid development in the construction of small arms of every species. This revolution commenced among pistols by the introduction of the revolving principle, then affected military arms by the substitution of rifles for the smooth bore musket, and was continued in the numerous efforts to solve practically the important problem of loading all firearms at the breech.

Looking at the contributions of British exhibitors at Kensington, we can determine at a glance how far these revolutions have succeeded, and how far and in what departments there has been reaction from their effects. In the first, that affecting pistols for offensive and defensive purposes, the revolver has so completely displaced the old models that there is scarcely one of them to be seen, and the whole interest of the pistol question turns on the merit of the various patents which are before the public, and more especially on the comparatively recent application of the breech-loading idea to this form of weapon. In the second—the improvement of military arms—the success of the revolution is, if possible, more complete, and every branch of our service is now armed with the rifle. Its ultimate form may be still an undecided question, but there is no apparent possibility that the smooth bore, although still extensively used in foreign armies, will ever again be placed in the hands of a British soldier. In the third, namely, the substitution of breech-loading systems for muzzle-loading in sporting and military arms, the revolution is far from complete ; and although breech-loading has made great progress in' many directions, as for instance in shotguns for home use, and in carbines for cavalry, yet it cannot by any means he said that it either has or is likely soon to altogether supersede muzzle-loading, even in sporting arms.

If we compare the progress made in the manufacture of small arms by British exhibitors with that of their foreign rivals in this branch of industry, another consideration is at once forced on our notice, which is important as demonstrating the value to the country of Exhibitions like the present in stimulating invention, and generally in accelerating the progress of science as applied to manufactures. In 1851 an examination of small arms contributed by British manufacturers unmistakably revealed the fact that no change of importance in their form or construction—no invention of note had been introduced during a period of thirty years, since the date of the final establishment of the detonating system instead of the flint. There was not a single breech-loading gun in the whole collection ; and no proposal for breech-loading would be entertained by the leading manufacturers. There was nota military rifle worthy of the name, and military men ridiculed the idea whenever suggested of arming troops with a title. The state of knowledge on the subject may be inferred from the fact that the two-grooved Brunswick rifle then used by one of our regiments, was held up by these who led public opinion as the most perfect form of rifle which had ever been invented. Again, with respect to revolving pistols, the only type exhibited was that with multiple barrels, and there was not a single chamber revolver in the collection. What makes the state of knowledge in England in 1851 more remarkable, is the fact that for some years previously neighbouring nations had been as busy in invention as we had been supine. The chamber revolver had already reached in America the identical form which, without improvement or change, it holds to the present day, and all the obstacles which had hindered its success for two hundred years had been completely removed. The French military rifle had already passed through its various stages of development, and achieved the results whose publication startled all England from inactivity, and ended in completely revolutionizing in two years our military weapons. The inventions of Lefaucheux, Beringer, and others had already occupied public attention in France for many years, and their successful application of breech-loading to sporting arms was on the Continent an accomplished fact. During all this rapid progress abroad England remained inactive, and the few who devoted their energies to experiment in such directions were treated as visionaries. An examination of the present Exhibition reveals a singular change in all these respects, and true progress runs more danger now of being impeded by the hasty zeal of innovators than by incredulity or neglect. In fact it is in the English department that we must look in the year 1862 for the most advanced ideas in breech-loading, and the most perfect military rifle ; and the progress of British exhibitors in all branches of the manufacture is much more marked than that of their foreign competitors.

Before proceeding to examine the varieties of construction and the fertility of invention evidenced in the numerous systems and modifications of systems represented in the Exhibition, it will be well to look at the manufacture of firearms more in its commercial aspect. In the great centres of this industry—Birmingham, Liege, and St. Etienne—the extreme subdivision of labour has been always the course pursued to lower the cost of production. In Liege especially this course is followed to its furthest limit, and most successfully, in the manufacture of trade guns at a low price. The industrious population which inhabits the villages and populous country surrounding Liege for many miles, is all engaged in isolated branches of the trade. In one village every man is a lock-filer; in another all are engaged filing mounting; and these villages being favourably situated in a fertile country, the artisans can easily obtain the vegetables which form the principal part of their diet. This simplicity of life, aided by the plodding industry which belongs to their character, has enabled the Liegois to produce trade guns at a lower price than the Birmingham makers; and of late years, since the intercourse between the two countries has become greater, they have copied not unsuccessfully the substantial models of English guns, and adopted their improvements. The English workmen possess one advantage over the Liegois in the superiority of their tools, and they are now becoming alive to the necessity of calling in to their aid the superior resources of this country in machinery to enable them to compete with their foreign rivals. In the materials employed the balance of advantage is rather in favour of the Belgian and French manufacturers; for whatever may be said of the steel it is an undoubted fact that in iron and wood suited for gun work, we are not in as good a position as they are. Walnut, which is now almost universally used for gun stocks, is a scarce timber in England, and for years we have been obliged to seek our supplies abroad. Italy has exported the greater portion of the wood used in our Government arms for some time, and large numbers of French and other Continental gun stocks are also sent into this country. That this should be so is easily understood; but that we should be inferior in the preparation of iron for gun barrels, and in skill in forging them, reveals an unsoundness in one branch of our gun manufacture which ought not to exist. We do not now allude to the barrels of military guns, which, owing to the exertions of one iron master in Wednesbury in producing a. suitable iron, and to the successful application of machinery to the whole process of manufacture, is in a sufficiently satisfactory state—and, indeed our system has been adopted in its entirety by the Liegois and others—but to the manufacture of twisted gun barrels either as used in trade guns or in high-priced arms. In this branch a very short inspection of the specimens exhibited suffices to convince us, that the barrel forgers of Birmingham and the iron masters of Wednesbury who supply their rod-iron, have a great deal to learn in many respects.

In the first rank for the beauty both of forging and subsequent manipulation come the productions of the Parisian forges; and foremost among them the contribution of M. Leopold Bernard (1337). Most of the specimens which he exhibits are of that particular description of Damascus which was invented by him, and bears his name. “Damas" Bernard designates a method of forging in which a large number of square rods alternately of iron and steel are welded together in such a manner that the cross section of the “bloom " presents the appearance of a chess-board (Fig.610). The mass is then reduced into rods of the requisite size, and a number of them having been first twisted singly like the strands of a rope, are welded side by side into a strap, of which the gun barrel is forged according to the ordinary method employed in making twisted barrels. A noticeable feature in M. Bernard’s contribution is his system of shaping gun barrels by machinery. Specimens are exhibited of the light tubes used for double fowling-pieces in which the rough material is removed and the peculiar curvilinear surface is produced by longitudinal planing, the cutter being guided so as to describe the requisite curve, while the barrel revolves on its axis to present the successive portions of its surface to the tool. The difficulties which this process involves of rendering a thin tube sufficiently rigid to avoid vibration in the cut, have apparently been very successfully combated by M. Bernard. In the British department Messrs. W. & J. Rigby of Dublin exhibit steel rifle-barrels of octagonal section, which are also planed to a curvilinear form by a process somewhat similar, we suppose, to that employed by M. Bernard. In this case, however, the hardness of the material precludes the ordinary method of grinding and filing, and the octagonal form excludes the use of the lathe, so that no doubt can exist as to the value of the improvement in this instance; but we have yet to learn that, as applied to round barrels by M. Bernard, the method presents any advantage over the usual one of removing the rough material by grinding, and finishing with the lathe. In fact we have no doubt that, commercially speaking, the English system is the best. M. A. Bernard (1324) and M. Gastinne Rennette (1335) of Paris also exhibit very beautiful specimens of gun-barrel forging, in the same style of work. Five of the maitres-canoniers of St. Etienne (Loire), fill one case in the French collection with samples of their skill, and the variety and beauty of the figures produced by different methods of disposing the alternate iron and steel is most admirable, and displays great skill in welding. The joint-exhibitors of this collection are (1308) Javelle, Magaud, & Sons, (1309) Ronchard Siauve, (1310) Didier Drevet, (1311) J. Blanchon, and (1312) Javelle Michel. The remarks we have made on the skill of the French gun-barrel welders apply equally to those of Liege; and if the forgers of Paris and St. Etienne have displayed more ingenuity in inventing novel combinations in the disposition of the iron and steel, those of Liege have ever been quick to reproduce them at a lower cost. It is in fact quite impossible to detect the difference between some Bernard barrels manufactured at Liege and the work sent out from the Paris house; and the Belgian barrels are considerably lower in price. This remark applies, however, only to the appearance, and more particularly to the outside appearance, for the Liege barrels are liable to a fault, which is in truth the great defect of their system of welding, namely, the existence of small scales in the here at certain parts under which oxidization commences; and thus after a period of use the under surface rapidly deteriorates. The source of this defect is the “chemise” or lining of common iron which all the continental welders use to economize the expensive Damascus iron, of which alone the finished tube should consist. The intention is, at least in barrels of better quality, that the whole of this lining should be removed in boring; but such is seldom the case in barrels made at Liege, and consequently a thin layer of the “chemise" remains at the breech end, while it is wholly bored out at the muzzle, and there intervenes a part of the bore where it crops out and produces the effect described. This failing has alone prevented the extensive adoption of foreign tubes in English guns. There is no contributor of gun-barrels only in the Belgian collection, but A. de Lezaaek (327), P. J. Malherbe & Company (341), and N. Simonis & Company (343), exhibit a few samples with their guns.

The manufacture of gun barrels as a distinct branch is very inefficiently represented in the British department. The Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield do indeed very fully illustrate with a well arranged collection of examples the different stages in the production of a military barrel; but the barrel-makers of Birmingham, in whose forges are welded almost all the tubes used in the United Kingdom, have not a single representative who can pretend to dispute the palm with the French makers. Moore & Harris (2570) exhibit specimens of iron and forged barrels in imitation of the French Damascus, but they are not at all equal to the original. In small bore rifle barrels, however, very beautiful specimens are exhibited by the Whitworth Rifle Company (2612) in their rifles, and by W. & J. Rigby, Dublin (2585) in the machined state. These barrels are drilled out of solid bars of a peculiar kind of steel, expressly manufactured for this purpose, and styled homogeneous iron. Those of the Whitworth Rifle Company are turned in a self-acting lathe to the required taper, and are not of curvilinear form externally. Messrs. Rigby employ a different process, the finished barrel having an octagonal section produced by planing longitudinally, the machine being also so arranged as to give a curved surface, and so leave more metal at the breech with equal weight. The other branches which demand attention in considering the manufacture of guns from a general point of view, are the filing, fitting, and tempering the locks and other moving parts of the gun -—such as the trigger, and the movements of the different breech loading systems—the cutting and fitting the stocks, and the final polishing and finishing and ornamenting the different parts. In lock filing it is conceded that the English workmen are unrivalled, and the present Exhibition fully confirms that judgment. It is true that English locks of superior quality are very high in price, but it is precisely in the high-priced locks that their superiority is most marked. The work exhibited by J. Brazier, Wolverhampton (2515), and by James Grainger, Birmingham (2542), is unrivalled for accuracy of fitting, perfection of finish, and for the beautiful temper of the springs and moving parts. There are no locks in the French or Belgian Courts which can be compared to these.

Of breech-loading movements in the filed state there are several exhibitors, E. C. Hodges, London (2548), Brazier (2515), W. C. Scott& Sons (2589), and others. The workmanship of the first named appears to us especially worthy of praise. In this particular department, owing to the priority of invention of the Lefaucheux system, having given them a larger experience, the French and Belgian artisans produce excellent work at a very low price; but it is evident that the progress of the English makers is rapid, and as the most suitable tools are gradually discovered and applied, they must ultimately outstrip those who depend more upon hand work and low wages for sustaining competition.

In the important branch of stocking, &c., combining as it does the most skilful manipulation with the judgment requisite to produce a properly formed and proportioned gun, a comparison is rather in favour of the English workman, and this too in an unexpected manner; for whereas in the merely mechanical part of the work, the close fitting and clean cutting of the wood, he is fully equalled by the French stocker, yet in the appreciation of elegance of form and perfect adaptation of proportion the latter is decidedly inferior. We do not include in this observation those cases where the form and ornamentation of the gun is made a primary object, as in those highly chased and carved guns for which Paris is justly famous; but an examination of any gun exhibited by a first-class English maker with those made in Paris in imitation of our models, will at once demonstrate the truth of our remark. There is another direction in which good progress has been made in this country, and it has proved that Government interference is not always productive of injury to a manufacture. At the Exhibition of 1851 there were exhibited by the United States Government specimens of military arms made by machinery. Since then the Enfield establishment has been expanded into a first-class manufactory in which our Government have, though at an enormous cost, fully demonstrated that machinery is preferable to hand work in producing military guns. The knowledge so gained is bearing fruit. The London Company Armoury exhibit most admirable workmanship in stocking, &c., by machinery. The accuracy and finish of the gun stocks far surpass any hand work, and Messrs. Greenwood & Battley (1610) have in their collection of machines one for letting in the locks of military guns, which is well worthy of inspection. In thus, although tardily, applying machinery to the production of military arms, it is evident that our manufacturers are moving in the right direction, indeed in the only direction in which they have a fair prospect of being enabled to compete successfully in the foreign market with the cheap labour of Belgium. The processes of polishing, case-hardening, browning barrels, and bluing, &c., present no features particularly worthy of remark. The English excel in case-hardening, the object being to preserve the smoothness of the surface, and produce a bright and pleasing colour. In the French work, a sober grey shade is preferred, the bright tints being removed by an application of acid. This uniform colour is more suitable to the elaborate and fanciful designs engraved or chased on the iron work of foreign guns. It is in the production of highly ornamented firearms that the French gunmakers show the most marked superiority over all competitors. The Parisian makers have carried their emulation on this point so far, that they have established a peculiar manufacture which is nowhere else attempted. Their“fusils de luxe" are no longer arms, properly so called, but works of art; the form of a gun being used as a pretext for the most lavish display of the art of the sculptor, engraver, wood-carver, and inlayer in gems and precious metals. When examining one of these chef d’oeuvres of art, we are struck with the ingenuity which has adapted designs, often bizarre and incongruous,'to the uses of a cock, guard, or heel-plate, and are almost inclined to feel regret that the artist was trammeled in his conception by an attempt to conform the outline of his group to the conventional limits of these parts. In enumerating the exhibitors of ornamented guns, we may pass over the British section almost without a word. It is true that the engraving in many cases is very well and tastefully executed, but the designs are conventional for the most part, and no attempt is made to depart from the beaten track. Of those whose work displays the best executed engraving we may mention R. Adams (2506), Gibbs (2539), Lancaster (2557), W. & J. Rigby (2585), and a few others. W. & J. Rigby (2585) exhibit a rifle, the silver furniture of which wrought in original designs, represents the giraffe, elephant, &c. These and some elaborately gilt pistols complete the catalogue of ornamented small arms in the British section.

An adequate notice of the various specimens of artistic firearms in the French court would far exceed the limits of this article, and would indeed come more properly under the department of fine arts. We can but enumerate the most. remarkable—Brun (1303), exquisite pair of pistols in carved box, barrels elaborately chased with a gilt ground; Gerinckx (1325), guns and pistols; Marquis (1326), a double gun ornamented with medallion in stock, and inlaying in excellent taste; L. Perrin (1327), double gun elaborately chased; Lepage Moutier (1339), highly ornamented Lefaucheux double gun, with boar hunt on the lockplates, and pistols; Devisme (1338), guns with chased furniture. A pair of pistols, with designs representing Crusaders and Saracens, the cock wrought into a design representing a Crusader casting a Saracen head foremost against the nipple; battle-piece on the lockplate; knights on horseback, as at a tournament, surround the termination of the handle of stock. These designs are very spirited and well executed. Claudin (1336), a double gun with chased furniture and carved stock ; the butt is perforated by the carving in an involved design representing dragon, serpent, &c. Gastinne Rennette (1335), double gun richly gilt and ornamented; pistols exquisitely carved.

In the Belgian collection some very good specimens of highly ornamented arms are exhibited, but it is evident that the artist has in every case derived his inspiration from French models. Bayet Freres (323) exhibit some very handsome guns, and a Lefaucheux revolver richly carved and inlaid. A. de Lezaack (327), a Flobert carbine, in which the carved ebony stock is worthy of notice ; also, pistols finely chased in the French style. Bernimolin Freres (324). ornamented pistols. Masu Freres (342), Lefaucheux double gun. We have so far only mentioned in detail the contributions of England, France, and Belgium. It is true that highly ornamented firearms are to be found in other collections, in the Turkish and Indian, for instance ; but the style adopted is so well known, and so purely conventional, that it presents no feature particularly noticeable, and we prefer passing to more important matters.

Having now reviewed the various processes connected with the manufacture of firearms, we will proceed to examine the varieties of construction which are so numerously illustrated in the Exhibition; and in order to avoid the confusion which their multiplicity is calculated to produce, we will endeavour to classify the leading ideas involved in the different systems exhibited. With this end in view, we will direct attention, first, to the various methods of depositing the charge in the gun, and of igniting it ; and, secondly, to the modes in which the motive force so obtained is applied, and to the effect produced.

Firstly, then, as to depositing the charge in the barrel. It is obvious that, as a gun barrel may be defined as a tube closed at one end, the simplest construction is that in which, the breech-piece being fixed, the charge is introduced at the muzzle, and is ignited by a stream of flame, produced externally by detonation, and driven through a small aperture into the interior. But it must not be lost sight of that in this method a certain though small escape of gas is inevitable, because the aperture through which the flame is introduced becomes, when the charge is ignited, an aperture through which a portion of it escapes. It is, therefore, erroneous to suppose that escape of gas is an evil inherent to breech-loaders only, the fact being that some muzzle-loaders, the common Enfield rifle for instance, permit a greater loss of power from this source than many breech-loaders.

Although the method of introducing the charge through the muzzle recommends itself by simplicity and strength of construction, still many and important reasons have caused experimentalists from the earliest invention of firearms, to attempt some arrangement which would permit the opposite course, namely, the rapid removal of the breech and introduction of the charge through the opening so made, and its effective closure. Many obstacles combine to render this difficult: the force which we can apply is small; the time necessarily short; the forces operating during the explosion to displace the breech very great; the expansion of the metal by the heat evolved in firing is considerable; the passage of a jet of flame (no matter how minute) through the joint is most destructive, as the effect is that of a blow-pipe flame of great intensity; the hard deposit left after the explosion of the charge impedes and deranges the mechanism, and other causes might be added which combine to render breech~loading a problem of no little difficulty. Two distinct systems have been pursued in modern efforts (and it must be remembered that successful breech-loading does not date back more than twenty years, although experiments extend over centuries), namely, one in which the joint of the breech and barrels is rendered so close by some arrangement of the parts as to prevent the passage of the imprisoned gases, and another in which a separate case or cartridge which contains the charge is used, and by its expansion at the moment of ignition, intercepts effectively the escape of the gas through the joint. The latter method has been most successfully developed by the French; the former by the English, in arms designed for military purposes. As the French or expanding cartridge system is most largely represented in the Exhibition, we will notice it first. This type of breech-loader includes the following :—1. Guns constructed for the use of the Lefaucheux cartridge. 2. Guns with central fire cartridge, which resemble the Lefaucheux cartridge, except in the disposition of the cap. 3. Needle guns. 4. Guns on Flobert’s system, in which there is no cap, but the detonating powder is placed in the rim of a metallic cartridge.

1. THE LEFAUCHEUX SYSTEM.—This system appears by the present Exhibition to be far more generally adopted for sporting arms than any other. It did not come into favour in this country until about 1857, although exhibited in 1851, and invented and largely used in France many years before. Since then, but especially within the last three or four years, it has occupied much of the attention of English makers, and several improvements of construction have been effected. Specimens of the ordinary model of these guns are exhibited by many English makers, viz. :—Baker (2510), Ebrall (2532), Fairman (2533), Gibbs (2539), Holland (2549), Lang (2558), Moore & Harris (2570), Pape (2574), Mortimer & Son (2571), Parsons (2576), Paton (2578), Potter (2579), Reilly (2583), Scott & Sons (2589), Smith (2605), Sylven (2606), Trulock & Harris (2608),Wilkinson & Son (2613), Woodward (2615). In the French and Belgian departments Lefaucheux guns are to be found in the cases of most exhibitors, the chief difference between the English and foreign model being in the shape of the lever, and the substitution of wood for iron in the fore-end of the stock. R. Adams (2506), Westly Richards (2586), Dougall (2529), Bentley & Playfair (2513), are exhibitors of patent guns, which deserve notice in detail.

ADAMS‘ PATENT.—In this gun (Fig. 611) the method of attaching the barrels (Fig. 612) to the breech-piece (Fig. 613) is novel. The latter, in place of extending under the barrel to the full width of the gun at that part, as is usual in Lefaucheux guns, is narrow enough to permit the wood to be continued around it as far forward as the joint on which the barrels turn. At its foremost end is the hinge pin, which receives the hook or half-hinge brazed to the barrels. Further back a square recess is formed, and the barrels carry a strong square stud, which, when the breech is closed, drops into it, and so forms a stop which prevents the recoil from straining the joint. Behind this, and close to the joint of the breech, a steel T-piece is attached to the barrels, which also drops into a recess in the breech-piece. Underneath this, and in the centre of the breech-piece, a lever (Fig. 614) is hung on a cross pin, the longer end of which projects downward, and is bent to lie round the trigger guard. The other end is worked into a claw, which, describing the segment of a circle, engages on the cross of the T-piece, and so prevents the breech ends of the barrels from rising during the explosion.

This arrangement appears to us superior to the ordinary one in which the recoil is taken on the joint-pin. The points of attachment of the barrels and breech-piece being further apart, permit less of that instantaneous displacement which is an evil in Lefaucheux guns, and causes the muzzles to droop when fired. The whole mechanism is light and strong, and by permitting the breech-piece to be reduced in width, and the wood to replace the iron, a form of gun is attained more pleasing to the eye and to the hand, particularly in cold weather, when the contact of iron is undesirable. Before concluding our notice of this gun, we cannot too highly commend the admirable workmanship and finish displayed in its manufacture.

W. RICHARDS' PATENT.—The chief object proposed by inventors of modifications of the Lefaucheux gun, is to render the connection of the barrel and stock more rigid. In the gun now under notice this is sought to be attained by removing the lever to the top of the handle of the gun between the cocks, and making it lock into a bar which extends backward from the breech between the two barrels. The effect is to remove the two points of grasp further apart, and in that respect there is an advantage in diminishing the instantaneous displacement already alluded to; but the position of the lever is inconvenient, and it is necessarily much shorter and less powerful than the ordinary lever, so that what may be gained by its being applied further from the centre is lost in the smaller amount of force which can be brought to bear upon it.

DOUGALL’S PATENT (2529).—In this gun, styled by the inventor the “lockfast,” the barrels are secured to the breech-piece and disengaged therefrom by the action of an eccentric. The end of the hinge-pin on which the barrels turn is made to project at the right side of the gun, and a short lever is attached to it, by means of which the joint-pin can be turned round through a portion of a circle. That part of the joint-pin on which the solid piece attached to the barrels works is made eccentric, so that the revolution of the pin causes the barrels to advance to and recede from the breech-piece. To the face of the breech- piece discs are attached, which, when the barrels are brought home by the eccentric, enter them, and - so prevent the breech end from rising or moving from its place. As additional security a steel stud is placed so as to enter a hole in the solid piece, and aid in preventing any movement of the barrels. In Fig. 615 the breech-piece and solid piece are represented in section. This construction has the merit of great simplicity. The joint pin, with its eccentric and lever, constitute the whole of the moving parts. The attachment of the barrels and breech-piece is strong, and the construction seems capable of being produced at a lower price than even the ordinary Lefaucheux action. On the other hand, the opening and closing of the breech is not so rapidly performed as in the ordinary action or in Adams”, where the act of closing the barrels partially replaces the lever. The lever also appears to us too short and inconveniently placed for the exercise of that degree of force which is sometimes called for, as, for instance, in the case of a slight deposit of fouling on the joints. The patentee estimates the looking power at 1000 lbs. ; but as the thumb, which is alone used in closing the lever, cannot conveniently exercise a pressure of more than 20 lbs, the leverage which multiplies this fifty times must do so at the expense of considerable loss in rapidity of action.

Bentley & Playfair (2513) exhibit a gun marked Erskine’s patent, which seems to possess considerable merit. It is, however, so clearly identical in the main points of construction with Lancaster’s, to be hereafter described, that we cannot see how it can be the subject of a distinct patent. The barrels of this gun advance to and recede from the face of the breech-piece, and interlock with it. The hinge pin is fixed, and the solid piece has a slot which permits it to play on the pin sufficiently to admit the locking and disengaging of the barrels. The traversing action is given by an eccentric disc placed in the breech-piece behind the joint-pin and acting on the solid piece. A lever extending backward over the guard is attached to this eccentric, and gives it the requisite motion.

We have now noticed the principal novelties in Lefaucheux's guns in the British department. In the French no invention of much importance in this direction is shown. Houillier Blanchard (1334) has a gun which somewhat resembles Adams'. The lever has a similar motion, but in place of acting directly, is applied to move a sliding belt which enters a hole in a steel piece attached to the barrels. Thomas (1305) exhibits two single rifles for the Lefaucheux cartridge. In both the barrel is fixed, and so mounted that the cartridge can be introduced into the chamber in a line with the here. In one the breech-piece is made to slide up and down from below through a square recess immediately in the rear of the chamber. It is drawn down to permit the introduction of the cartridge, and pushed up to close the breech by means of a screw of rapid pitch working on the under strap of the gun, and actuated by a lever which also serves as a trigger-guard. In the other the breech-piece is a plate which turns on a pin at the left side of the gun, and drops down across the end of the chamber after the insertion of the cartridge. Caron (1302) exhibits a gun in which the barrel slides in guides, and a fixed breech with a segmental screw is used. The barrel is drawn back after inserting the cartridge, and a quarter revolution interlocks the screw.

In the Belgian department, the Lefaucheux guns are mostly of the ordinary construction. We notice one, a sliding action by Hubar (334), which appears more solid than the ordinary sliding actions known as Bastin’s and Gaye’s [Ghaye], specimens of which are to be found in both the English and Belgian departments.

2. CENTRAL FIRE GUNS, having a cartridge of same materials as the Lefaucheux. Those most worthy of notice are Lancaster’s (2557), Daw (2527), Gastinne Rennette (1335), Bernimolin Freres
(324), and Devisme (1338). Of these, the first two are of French origin, and the latter are evidently but slightly modified forms of them. The cartridges used with these guns differ from the Lefaucheux in having no projecting pin to communicate the blow of the cock to the cap. In Lancaster‘s cartridge no cap is used, but a brass plate is fixed in the bottom of the cartridge, between which and the external copper capsule which covers the base, a small quantity of detonating powder is placed. The cock does not strike this directly, but falls on a steel stud, one end of which is thereby caused to protrude from the breech-piece, and sufficiently indent the copper to cause detonation. 1n the other central fire guns already enumerated, a somewhat different cartridge is used. A cavity is made in the centre of the base, and a cap is introduced from the outside. A small stud or “tige" is so placed in the cartridge, that when the cap is driven inward by the blow of the striker it comes in contact with the priming, and so ignites the charge. This plan is more economical than the first, as the cases may be re-primed; but we fear a slight escape of gas round the cap is inevitable. As to the construction of the guns with which these cartridges are used, Lancaster’s has
the traversing action already described when speaking of Bentley & Playfair’s gun. Gastinne Rennette's and the others have actions like the ordinary Lefaucheux. In Daw’s gun the barrels are held down by a sliding bolt, which enters into a hole in the solid piece on the barrels, and is pressed forward by a spring in such a manner that when the barrels are shut down smartly the bolt springs in and locks them without further manipulation. The absence of the projecting pin, by means of which the exploded cartridge cases are withdrawn from the chambers in Lefaucheux guns, necessitates in
the case of central fire cartridges a peculiar mechanism to effect their withdrawal. This mechanism is very similar in all the plans enumerated. A portion of the edge of the chamber at the joint is removed, and its place supplied by a segment of steel attached to a strong stud, which plays in a hole drilled in the solid iron between the barrels, and is carried as far forward as the hinge pin. On the hinge a steel finger is fastened, the end of which reaches the extremity of the stud, and when the barrels revolve round the hinge, has the effect of thrusting backward the movable portion of the chamber. The cartridge is made with is projecting rim round the base, which is caught by the movable segment, and thus made to project sufficiently to enable the shooters to catch hold of and withdraw it. On a careful examination of these central fire guns, we have no hesitation in giving the preference to Lancaster's. The oblique manner in which the stroke is given to the cap in Daw’s, and the want of rigidity in the manner of confining the barrels, are decided objections.

8. NEEDLE GUNS.—-The needle gun as originally made was not a gun coming under the category of breech-loaders with an expanding cartridge, but there are two systems exhibited by W. & J. Rigby (2585), in both of which that principle is applied. The first we will notice is Needham’s patent, improved by Messrs. Rigby; and before describing the construction of the gun, it is necessary to premise that the cartridge used with it is not a rigid pasteboard tube strengthened with brass, like the Lefaucheux cartridge, but is made of paper, and with the exception of the base, is light and pliable. Two or three discs of pasteboard are compressed together at the bottom to form an elastic cushion, on which the cap is secured by a similar disc having a hole in the centre. A thin zinc capsule on the outside prevents the base from expanding when exposed to damp. This cartridge is much cheaper than the Lefaucheux, and a portable press and a few tools would enable any one to make them for their own use. In the French system the cartridge is with drawn after each shot, consequently it must be strong enough to withstand the explosion and come out entire. In Messrs. Rigby’s gun the base alone is strengthened, and the rest of the tube serves no other purpose than to keep the charge in a portable form. When one shot is fired, the remains of the cartridge case are pushed for ward by the fresh one, and shot away in front of the succeeding charge. We now proceed to describe the gun with which the cartridge is used. Fig. 616 is a side view of the gun, with the breech closed. Fig. 617 is a view of the barrels separated from the stock, one action or breech being represented open and the other closed. The action which contains the lock mechanism consists of two parts which screw into one another. One of these is hung on a cross axis in the rear of the recess. The other is fitted with a finger-piece, which when the breech is closed lies close by the side of the stock. To open the breech the forefinger is applied to this finger-piece, and by means of it the cap is turned round about a third of a revolution. This movement retracts the needle, i.e., cocks the lock, and at the same time withdraws the nose of the action or breech-piece from the barrel sufficiently to permit the whole action to be thrown out into a position at right angles with the bore as in Fig. 617. The cartridge can thus be introduced and the breech-piece replaced. The needle is held back by a catch, which is released by the action of the trigger, and a strong spiral spring then darts it into the rear of the cartridge. On opening the breech to reload, a cam in the action pushes back the needle, and so cocks the lock for the next shot. In the same case with these guns, Messrs. Rigby exhibit another needle gun (Fig. 618), a small rifle for rabbit shooting, which deserves notice for the ingenious manner in which the difficulty of withdrawing the exploded cartridge case is solved. In this gun a rigid pasteboard cartridge is used, strengthened internally by a thin brass capsule. The barrel is hinged to the breech-piece, as in the Lefaucheux gun, but is held down in its place by a peculiar contrivance. In the breech-piece, and opposite the bore of the barrel, a hole is bored and tapped with a four-threaded screw of rapid pitch. A screwed plug fits in this hole, and has a. nose which enters the breech end of the barrel for about 3-8ths of an inch, and so holds it down in its place. Close alongside the gun, and attached to this plug, is a lever, or handle, by means of which the plug can be screwed back and the barrel released. In the foremost end of the plug a recess is turned of the same diameter as the chamber, and the cartridge lies partly in the chamber and partly in this recess, which is slightly undercut, so that when the explosion takes place the base of the cartridge becomes fixed in the plug, and is drawn back by it when it is withdrawn for the purpose of opening the breech. The breech end of the barrel is then raised by pressing down the muzzle, and the cartridge case is bent over and thrown out. This arrangement presents three advantages—first, that the base of the cartridge being inclosed in the recess, no brass capsule is requisite; second, the joint being thrown on the side of the cartridge, escape of gas is prevented; thirdly, one movement of the lever, and the action of ' tilting the barrel, half cooks the cock, opens the breech, and withdraws and ejects the cartridge simultaneously. The traversing motion of the screwed plug answers an excellent purpose in compressing the cartridge endwise, and by this means it is brought into contact with the sides of the chamber, and so prevented from yielding to the explosion, and the bullet is passed firmly into the riding so as to insure its taking the grooves fairly.

4. FLOBERT’S SYSTEM (l306).—The last illustration which we will give of guns in which the cartridge completes the joint is Flobert's patent for small rifles, “pistolets a salon,” &c. The cartridge is of copper, having a rim round the base in which an annular charge of detonating powder is placed. In the pistolets a salon and small rifles the cock forms the support for the rear of the cartridge, and a ridge on it indents the edge and causes ignition. This arrangement is manifestly only suitable to very small charges. A similar cartridge has been recently made use of in the pocket revolvers used in the United States, specimens of which are to be found in the cases of several British exhibitors.

We will now examine some of the most noticeable of the numerous breech-loading systems in which the joint is obtained by the permanent part of the breech, and we at once divide these into two classes, viz., those which have the joint in the rear of the charge, and those in which it is in front. All the guns in the first division are of that class in which the barrel is fixed to the stock and open at the breech. The cartridge is made of prepared thin paper, and the ignition is effected by the flame of an ordinary cap penetrating the paper on the side of the cartridge. The breech is closed behind the cartridge by some arrangement of a plug or stopper, varying in each case, so that our attention need only be directed to the merits of the different methods employed for advancing and securing in its place this plug. In Bailey's patent the barrel is prolonged backwards beyond the chamber, and a steel rod or plunger lies therein which carries on its foremost extremity the plug to close the breech. A bolting lever is connected with the plunger by a pin near the plug, and the upper part of the tubes in the elongation of the barrel is removed to permit the introduction of the cartridge and the action of the bolting lever, which when closed lies along the handle of the stock. To load the gun the lever is raised, which action releases the plunger, and enables it to be drawn backward. The cartridge is then introduced, and the plug replaced. Cooper & Goodman’s gun has also an arrangement of compound leverage, which withdraws or advances a plug in an elongation of the barrel. The cartridge is inserted at the top. King & Philips’ plan is an application of the sectional screw as the means of locking the plug, which it is difficult to describe without drawings. ln Webley’s the plug is attached to a handle that lies along the top of the stock, and by which the plug is directly pulled out and pushed home. It is locked by a broad key-piece, which works through a slot cut in the plunger and the sides of the barrel. Calisher and Terry’s—The construction of this rifle is strong and simple. The barrel as before is continued backward beyond the chamber. A portion at the side is removed to admit the cartridge, which is thrust forward by a steel plunger. This plunger carries on its foremost end a conical plug which fits into a conical recess at the rear of the chamber. 011 the other end it has lug pieces, and a lever or handle is jointed to it. It is first thrust forward, then by means of the lever turned round through 90°. This action brings the lug pieces into helical recesses, which cause the conical plug to be strongly pressed into its bed. The handle then folds down, and prevents the plunger becoming unlocked. As before a cartridge of penetrable paper with a felt wad in the rear is used.

Reeves (2582) exhibits two rifles. One is like Terry’s patent last described, very slightly modified. The other is in every respect similar to Thomas’ of Paris Lefaucheux rifle, which we noticed under the head of guns having an expanding cartridge. The manner in which the breech is pushed up from below and drawn down to admit the charge is the same, but Mr. Reeves proposes to use not a Lefaucheux cartridge, but a common cap and the greased wad arrangement. Westley Richards', Restell’s, and Parson’s rifles have some resemblance. The former has an excellent reputation, and has been partially adopted by our government. The cartridge used is as before of thin paper, with a wad of felt soaked in tallow. It has a joint to enable it to be introduced into the bore, as the trap at the rear of the barrel which receives it is not long enough to permit its entrance otherwise. This trap is a rectangular box, open at the top, and screwed to the breech. The hero of the barrel is continued into it. On the barrel at the breech a lever is hinged, which lies along the top of the handle and covers the box. Along its under surface a piece of iron slides in a dovetail, and carries on one end a brass button. When the cartridge has been pushed into the chamber this lever is brought down, and the sliding piece of iron enters the box. One end abuts on the solid end of the recess, and by means of an inclined plane formed on it causes the sliding piece to move forward, and drives the brass button into the box behind the cartridge.

Parson‘s rifle is very similar in appearance to Westley Richards’, but the action is different. The brass button is not used, and the plug which closes the breech is spherical and enters an enlargement of the bore behind the chamber. A short tube of brass is fitted in this cylindrical enlargement, and is capable of sliding in it. The spherical head of the plug touches the brass tube, and the sheet of the explosion is to drive it backward, and force it against the sphere in such a manner as to cut off escape. This ingenious arrangement appears open to the objection that the brass tube which, from its position, cannot be examined or cleaned would probably in service become fast in its place, and cease to provide the requisite compensation.

Restell’s patent, which is, we believe, of somewhat earlier date than either of the others, resembles \Westley Richards' in the manner of introducing the charge, but has a different arrangement for locking the plug. The lever lies along the side of the gun, and puts in motion a cam hung on the same cross axis. The cam, which is an eccentric plate, plays in a slot in the rear of the plug, and having pushed it forward into its bed drops down into the slot, and, abutting against the end of it, locks the plug in that position.

LANCASTER’S PATENT.-——This gun differs from all the former in the method of preventing escape of gas, and in the cartridge. The idea which it seeks to carry out is not new, but has not hitherto been successfully applied. It consists in using a cartridge with the bullet behind the powder. For the first shot a bullet only is inserted, followed by a cartridge. The bullet in the cartridge rests on the plunger, which closes the breech, and when the charge is ignited is driven back upon it so as to become expanded, and prevent any escape. The plunger is in two parts, an outer tube with lug pieces to lock it in its place, and a rammer sliding in it in such a manner that after each shot it can be used to push the remaining bullet forward in the chamber, and so make room for the introduction of the succeeding charge. The ignition is effected by a common cap, the nipple being placed under the barrel; but Mr. Lancaster does not confine himself to this arrangement. The improvement which he claims is designed to obviate the difficulty which was fatal to former attempts to carry this idea oi a bullet in the rear of the charge into practice. The hindmost bullet is liable to become so fast in its place, as to require more force to impel it forward than can be conveniently applied. In the present gun a slight enlargement is made in the chamber behind the bullet, and an elastic wad of felt or other materials is attached to its base. The effect, we presume, is to reduce the expansion of the bullet to manageable proportions, and at the same time to cut any possible escape, while the wad is also useful, lubricating and cleaning the chamber and barrel. We have so far only concerned ourselves with the method of introducing the charge and closing the breech. We will revert again to these rifles when we have their accuracy of shooting under consideration.

It may be remarked that all the breech-loaders hitherto noticed require a special cartridge. In the first class the cartridge carries its own ignition. In the second a cap is used, and the special cartridge is of penetrable paper, with an attached wadding. We now come to the only kind of breech-loader which is independent of a cartridge, and is capable of being used without one. In this class the joint is placed in front of the charge. In fact the charge is contained in a chamber which is then brought by the mechanism into a line with the barrel, and forming with it a continuous tube. The examples are Gilby’s (2507), Leech (2516), McKenzie &Wentworth (2549), Mont Storm (2569), Murcott & Hanson (2572), Rigby (2585), Wylie (2617), and the Norwegian rifle.

Gilby's patent has been some time before the public, being one of the very few breech-loaders exhibited by English makers at the Exposition Universelle at Paris in 1855. The chamber, which resembles in every respect the breech-end of an ordinary barrel, is mounted on a cross pin at its hindmost end, and when released (by pressing a stud on the side of the gun) is thrown up by a spring underneath into a position at an angle of about 60° with the barrel. In this position, it is loaded with loose powder and ball. The loading is completed by pressing down the chamber until it is caught by a spring catch, which enters a slot in a piece attached to the chamber underneath. Three of the specimens exhibited have a self-capping arrangement added. The want of any check to the escape of gas through the joint would be fatal to the durability of this gun.

Leech‘s patent, exhibited by the Breech-loading Gun Company is open to the same objection, although some attempt is made to prevent the destructive effects of the flash by inserting a ring of platina at the place where it impinges. The chamber is mounted on an axis underneath and parallel to the barrel, and is moved out of line with it to the right for the purpose of loading. McKenzie & Wentworth's patent is exhibited by Holland (2549). In this gun the barrel is screwed into a tubular breech-piece, the bore of which is about equal to the external diameter of the barrel. This breech piece is open at the top, and extends back about six inches. In it the chamber lies (carrying the nipple, &c.), and is so mounted by an ingenious screw arrangement, actuated by a short lever which lies on the top of the handle, that the movement of this lever draws back the chamber, releases its foremost end from a recess in the barrel, and turns it up to receive the charge, and the reverse action replaces it and pushes it into the recess. This traversing motion and the conical joint is designed to prevent escape of gas, but no conical joint is entirely effective for that purpose. Mont Storm's patent attracts attention from the inventor’s proposal to convert all our military rifles into breech-loaders by means of it. The barrel is, as in the last case, screwed into a breech-piece with a recess in which the chamber, representing the breech and about two inches of the barrel, lies. The chamber is attached to the barrel by a hinge joint on top, the pin of which is immediately over the juncture of the chamber and the barrel. When the cock is raised the finger is applied to a button on the side of the chamber, and it is lifted from its bed and turned over on the top of the barrel, with the opening towards the breech. In this position the charge is inserted and the chamber or movable breech end is replaced. When the cock falls, it causes a bolt to protrude through the rear of the recess in which the chamber lies, and to enter a corresponding hole in the chamber. In this manner the latter is held down in its place, and a safeguard is provided against the cock falling when it is not quite home. The provision against the escape of gas is made by a movable nose-piece to the chamber, which enters an enlargement of the bore in the rear of the barrel. The nose-piece is a thin steel tube, slightly conical, which is fitted into the chamber, and projects sufficiently beyond it to enter and fill the enlargement of the barrel. When the charge is ignited it is urged forward by the explosion, and so kept strongly pressed against the barrel. The efficiency of this arrangement evidently depends on the nose-piece being free to slide in the chamber.

W. & J. Rigby exhibit a carbine on Rigby & Needham’s patent, in which a much more efficient joint is obtained. The barrel is, as before, screwed into a tubular breech-piece, open on the top and wide enough to receive a chamber as strong as the barrel, in fact supplying the place of the breech and first two inches of the barrel. This chamber has a lever or handle placed under the nipple, and lying close to the side of the stock, by which it can be turned round in its bed about one-third of a revolution, and then lifted up. Behind, it is attached to a piece of iron by a screw of rapid pitch, and this latter piece is hung on a cross axis. When the chamber is turned in its bed the screw draws the foremost end out of a recess in the rear of the barrel, and it can be lifted up to a position at right angles with the box to receive the cartridge or loose charge. The recess in the barrel is cylindrical, and there is a corresponding cylindrical projection on the chamber. The movement of the joint in firing causes this projection to slide in the recess without separating the surface or permitting escape, against which the expansion of the chamber also provides. In this gun the chamber is the same bore as the barrel, and the rifling is continued into it, so that the ball expands in the rifling as in a muzzle-loader.

The last chamber breech~loader which we shall notice is Wylie's. The whole arrangement of this gun is original, and its description consequently difficult. The chamber slides in a hollow breech piece, and is locked in its place by a sectional screw on its surface. A handle projecting from it enables the shooter to turn it round a quarter of a turn (which disengages the sectional screw), draw it back, and finally tilt up the end to receive the charge. The same movement cooks the lock, which is placed underneath, and brings the nipple into a position to receive a fresh cap from the self-capping apparatus placed in the stock. The reverse movement replaces and locks the chamber, and the loading is complete. The chamber has a long nose-piece which enters a slightly conical recess in the barrel, and so prevents escape of gas. The bullet is permitted to project from the chamber, and so enters the barrel, and lies in the rifled portion. The inventor claims for his gun the advantage of being automatic, and at the same time capable of being cocked and capped, &c., in the usual way, or used as a muzzle loader if required.

Having now passed in review the most remarkable constructions in the department of breech-loading firearms, we will direct our attention to rifles for military purposes and for target practice. In 1852 our Government first adopted into the service the French invention of expanding bullets for rifles. In the following year the present Enfield rifle was designed, and in a few years totally superseded smooth bores in all branches of the service. The sudden demand so created being inadequately supplied from the ordinary sources, it was resolved to attempt on a large scale what had already been effected in America on a smaller one, namely, the application of machinery to the manufacture of these rifles in so complete a manner that in any number of guns all the parts of the gun should be interchangeable.

The Royal Small Arms Factory (2603) contribute a most complete and interesting series of specimens of the various parts of the rifle in its progressive stages of manufacture. The London Armoury Company (2561), who manufacture on the same system, also exhibit very beautiful examples of what can be done by the special adaptation of machinery to particular objects. The Birmingham Military Arms Trade (2513) have a very fine collection of arms of various models. The application of machinery is only partial in these, but is, we believe, extending, and has made considerable progress during the last two years.

In the French department F. Escoffeir, of St. Etienne (1317), exhibits specimens of military arms, among which are the long and short Enfield, closely copied from the English model. The Belgian contractors are represented by Dandoy (326), and Malherbe & Company (341). In their cases may be seen the various models of military arms used by many of the European states, and conspicuous among them the Enfield rifle.

We have remarked before on the importance of obtaining the assistance of machinery in the manufacture of military arms, and we note with pleasure in the machinery court in the contribution of Messrs. Greenwood & Batley (1610) two machines, one for rifling the barrels of Enfield pattern guns, and the other for letting the looks into the wood, which have been made for the Birmingham trade. The particular merit of the rifling machine (Fig. 618%) is in the arrangement by which the length of the stroke is varied so as to economize time, by only permitting the cutter to return over so much of the barrel as is to be cut in the succeeding stroke. The feed is also self-acting, and by an ingenious arrangement the cutter is withdrawn into its sheath on the return stroke, so as to keep it clear of the work.

The general adoption of the Enfield rifle in our army, and the importance which is given to accurate shooting at long ranges, have caused many experimentalists to attempt the further improvement of that model. There are several exhibitors of long-range rifles in the English department, all of which are designed on the principle of a reduced bore and a more elongated form of projectile. With the exception of the rifle which takes its name from the late General Jacob, all these are '451 bore, and throw a bullet of 530 grains. Specimens of General Jacob’s military rifle are exhibited by Swinburn & Sons (2513), G. H. Daw (25-7), and others. The bullet carries a percussion shell, is about 1/2 inch in diameter, and 1 1/2 inches long. Its range and accuracy are considerable, but in both it has been surpassed by rifles of smaller calibre constructed on the system for which we are mainly indebted to the series of experiments carried out some years since at the instance and at the expense of the Government by Mr. Whitworth of Manchester.

Among the exhibitors in this section are the Whitworth Rifle Company (2612), the London Armoury Company (2561), C. W. Lancaster (2557), W. & J. Rigby (2585), R. Adams (2506), F. T. Baker (2510), It. Jackson (2550). In all these the bore is nearly the same, and the general principles of length of bullet, degree of spiral, &c., are very similar. The method of rifling, and the section of the bore constitute the chief difference. In Whitworth's rifles the section is a hexagon with rounded angles, the grooves are of equal depth, and the spiral equable from breech to muzzle. The bullet is hexagonal, to fit the rifling, and is of lead slightly alloyed to render it harder. For military purposes, however, when quick loading is requisite, a leaden expanding bullet is used, but the patentee prefers the fitted bullet on the score of superior accuracy.

The rifles exhibited by the Whitworth Rifle Company are very well made and finished. The sights are extremely accurate, but appear rather delicate and liable to injury. We have before drawn attention to the superior quality of the barrels, which are drilled out of solid bars of mild steel. The hexagonal cartridges for these rifles exemplify the care and accuracy with which every part of the system is carried out. The powder in each cartridge is separately weighed, and both it and the bullet are guaranteed to a fraction of a grain.

Among the collection of rifled ordnance is exhibited Whitworth’s Patent Machine Rest, which we engrave, as it is an important auxiliary to experiments; with it the mean deviation of the rifle is tested, which gives a certain measure of the accuracy of the gun. The angle
Many thanks Steve...leave it where it is. The "World's Fair" Expositions of 1851 (Crystal Palace, London), 1855 Paris Universelle, 1862 London, and 1867 Paris are particularly important because everybody who was anybody was there. Reilly, after the 1855 Paris Universelle, in particular targeted these expositions and the medals won were major advertisements.

1855 (where all his goods where sold and many orders were booked - no further information for the moment) and 1867, where he outright won the gold medal, where his triumphs.

Here is Reilly's 1862 exhibit - Note that in 1862, you could order a Best Reilly Muzzleloader with Brazier locks for an extra 6Ł (Steve Nash mentioned above that Joseph Brazier of Wolverhampton provided actions to gun finishers based on the Lang design - the below Reilly ad, however, in 1862 was for locks for muzzleloaders - for which he was best known):
https://books.google.com/books?id=BJfHM1...ent&f=false



1862 was a disappointment - he meticulously prepared for the Fair but only got a sort of "participation medal." But three things for this Reilly line came out of the exposition:

1) The advertisements in the exposition catalog and the newspaper interviews and publicity before the exposition definitively state he was manufacturing guns at 502 and 315 Oxford Street, allegedly making every piece himself, and was making the guns that he perceived to be salable under patent license.

..........17 Aug 1862 "Bell's Life" - review of guns at the 1862 London World's Fair


..........1862 Exposition catalogue


..........1861 - note the reference to the John Baker cartridge sealing patent in a mid-1861 advertisement.....and note the reference to an underlever "double-grip" system - which seems to indicate Reilly was building Jones U-L at that date:


2) The Identity of at least one of his employees, a young "Mr. McNamara.


3) The description of a gold washed muzzleloader that at least one writer in September 1862 waxed poetic about and which may still exist - SN 12532 (dated on my chart as mid-1862; it is used as a "sanity check" for the accuracy of the chart)
https://books.google.com/books?id=mvkHAA...gun&f=false


http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/e.m.-reilly,-london-a-gilded-and-cased-12-bore-pe-545-c-cbe4d2e8d5

E.M. REILLY, LONDON
A GILDED AND CASED 12-BORE PERCUSSION SPORTING-GUN FOR PRESENTATION, serial no. 12532, &#8232;circa 1855 ([color:#FF0000]wrong[/color]) and for the Indian market, with re-gilded fully fluted 32in. barrels, the top-rib signed 'REILLY 502 NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON' and surrounded by a field of engraved acanthus scrolls, further panels of acanthus scroll-work forwards of the fore-end and at breech, scroll engraved re-gilded top-tang, re-gilded fully acanthus scroll engraved bar action locks signed 'REILLY LONDON', en-suite hammers, re-finished highly figured chequered walnut half-stock (cracked at hand), re-gilded furniture including heel-plate with engraved spur, fully scroll engraved trigger-guard bow and tang, engraved barrel wedge escutcheons and ramrod throat, fluted ramrod pipes and ebony ramrod; TOGETHER WITH its manufacturers walnut presentation case bound on the exterior with pierced and engraved brass mounts with a vacant central shield, the interior lined in embossed red velvet (thinning in places) with gilt borders and details, the inner lid signed in gilt block letters 'E.M. REILLY 502 NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON', the tray compartmented in the English manner and containing the original red morocco leather shot flask with gilt embossed decoration, the possibly original but period powder flask signed 'JAMES DIXON & SONS, SHEFFIELD' and an 'E.M. REILLY' brass wad-punch



But I will say this and I think I can back it up. 1857-1870 was the Hay-Day of Reilly. There is a cockiness about their advertising, their sending zingers at the "establishment" such as Purdey. They for a short time tried to advertise themselves as gun-makers to the Royal family in 1862. They won outright the gold medal in 1867 in Paris, opened a Paris shop; they became gun-maker to Napoleon III, strutted into America. They had great hopes of winning the 1865 breech loading trials with the Green Bros breech loader and 1869 trials with the Reilly-Comblain. All this is documented above.
As you demonstrate so well, contemporary accounts, records, advertisements, case labels, and publications are the best sources for unravelling the story of gun development in the 1850s and 1860s. But I have to say, what really made my week, Gene, was the reference to the Blanch scrapbook items, and the 1855 bill of sale for a Beringer gun. It suggests with real evidence that London makers sought foreign guns to study and copy. Research on the competition makes sense! It also helps explain how and when foreign innovations started turning up in British guns, and the reverse is probably true as well. While the French made great advances with percussion ignition, it looks like much was based on getting their hands on a Forsyth ‘scent-bottle’ gun. The quintessential British lever-over-guard might have been inspired by Blanch getting his hands on that 1855 Beringer... or by another maker with another gun. In any case, it shows how there might have been a cross-pollination of ideas. The fairs and exhibitions would have been another source of professional curiosity, and comparison.
I think the >>cross-pollination of ideas<< was achieved by the walkabout each mechanic made. This was the conduit for the transfer of technology & more than likely how pattern welded tubes made their central migration, along with spoils of war. We know that many of the Continental mechanics passed thru the Little British Isles, but I haven't seen any info for vice - versa.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
I'd like to make a record of this: In the 11 Dec 2019 Gavin Gardner catalog,
Lot 144 - Parts to build a 4-bore double barrel Hammer gun. E.M. Reilly action, with underlever, fore-end, iron trigger plate, hammers, etc.

Here is what Gavin sent me about the action:
As you can see from the hi res image, it is just a kit of unfinished parts, in the white. It has come from someone in the trade who refers to it as the “Reilly” action and insisted that I refer to is as such…. but of course it impossible to prove that this unfinished action is originally from the Reilly works. There are no marks or identifying numbers I am afraid.



So, at least one person in the "Trade" believes Reilly made the action (or had bought it intending to finish it himself). Interesting. Has the action backstrap already been engraved? The same consigner has four or five other 4 bore actions in the auction, each one labeled with a gun maker's name....there is more to this story.

I am very curious about the age of the action. Obviously a center-fire hammer-gun with deep percussion fences....but other than that? Here are three Reilly big bore percussion fences - nothing like the one in the parts bin above (percussion fences on guns that were originally pinfire face away from the center fire firing pins):

1) 15964 - 1869 4 bore (orig pinfire); . . . . . . . 2) 15565 - George L's 4 bore (orig pinfire) (1869); . . . . . . . . . . 3) 18860 - 4 bore (1874)



Is it my imagination or were there two halves to each hammer (meaning that they must have been welded together for the finished product). Double interesting. I could see a manufacturing efficiency reason for this. Or are there just extra hammers in the box?

The label in the plastic bag looks to be a reproduction (no scolloped corners) of the generic label with the Paris medals...Post February 1868. The small scroll items at the bottom of the label changed as the years passed (certainly after 1885) (and, though I don't have as many examples to definitively state this, "502" continued to be used until circa 1885 when it was changed to "16")....this one looks still to have "Enfield Rifles" on it (the reproduction labels do - if you're looking for a Reilly reproduction label for an 1880's-90's Reilly gun these would not be authentic).

Post Feb 1868 original label:
Looks like some vintage forgings along with some modern cast parts. The action is pretty far along but still tons to do on that one.
“Here is what Gavin sent me about the action:
As you can see from the hi res image, it is just a kit of unfinished parts, in the white. It has come from someone in the trade who refers to it as the “Reilly” action and insisted that I refer to is as such…. but of course it impossible to prove that this unfinished action is originally from the Reilly works. There are no marks or identifying numbers I am afraid.”


There’s absolutely no such thing as a “Reilly” action, is there? That someone “in the trade” isn’t a history guy, that’s for sure.
Dustin, we are back on familiar ground. I'll restate: You know a lot about guns; you don't know much about Reilly. I have laid out an extensive case for my "New History of Reilly." You haven't contributed much to it.

I'll ask these questions again:
-- Who told you that Reilly did not make guns?
-- Why did you believe him?
-- Have you done any research at all to confirm what you were told?
-- Can you cite one (1) article from the 19th Century press that states Reilly was only a retailer?
-- Can you tell us who made pinfire SN 10655 dated to Spring 1858 pictured above if Reilly did not do it?
-- You have maintained that you are 100% sure Reilly made muzzle loaders (but paradoxically that he had no machinery to do it with). Can you back this up?

This line has proved that virtually every assertion about Reilly made in Boothroyd and Brown is wrong. When we last had this exchange, we agreed that we'd let the market-place and the readers judge this line. They are doing so and I will continue to post the relevant information I find, and hope we can leave it at that for the moment.

In a way you remind me of New Delhi in February 1990. The Berlin Wall had fallen; the Russians had just sold E.Germany to the FRG for $10 billion dollars. Yet the East German Embassy in Delhi was hunkered down, defending the old system, locked up, spying on each other, pretending nothing had happened. I asked a Czech diplomat (communist), headed home to make a new life, what was up. He said, "Oh those German communists are like the Japanese soldiers by-passed on a Pacific Island, guns pointed out to sea, prepared to repel an American invasion, when Tokyo has surrendered."

And Dustin, I don't want to start a flame war...You've expressed your opinion repeatedly. Now, I'll continue to lay out the case for Reilly. We'll see where it takes us.

In spite of all, I don't think you dispute the date chart for Reilly serial numbers, so at least one thing might be positive for you from this line. And Reilly history can't be understood until you can date the guns. smile

Gene Williams


Show us a patent for a “Reilly” action. You can’t. Reilly didn’t have or produce a distinctive “house” action. You can’t even show us were Reilly purchased the rights to produce an action or paid royalties for making an action in house.
To assume that the box of old parts is a Reilly action is laughable.

The side lever Reilly built on the Scott & Baker action...you seriously think Reilly made that? No. They didn’t. Nobody made that except W & C Scott. That’s a fact.

If I were you...I’d walk back on talking about proving Boothroyd or Brown wrong. They actually knew people in the trade....old people...the kind of people that would’ve known everything there is to know about the trade. You don’t have that luxury.

And Gene....don’t get too pissy with me. I’m NOT the only doubter of your Reilly line here on this forum. You’ve done a nice job with serial numbers, etc. but as far you proving that Reilly made or produced modern breech loading, centerfire rifles and shotguns in the golden age of gunmaking you have utterly failed. You have not produced one shred of certifiable, empirical evidence that proves they did in all the mountainous minutiae that you’ve posted on this seemingly never ending thread.

Where does it say in any rule book that I have to be positive when posting a comment? It’s your job, seeing how you’ve taken up the task, to prove that Reilly made guns in the golden era of gunmaking. Stop posting crap about the 1860’s.....most of us here are interested in the late 1870’s to the early 1900’s. That’s where you’re having issues providing the proof. There’s a reason for that.

And understand this sir....as long as I’m a member of this forum, I’ll comment as I see fit on any subject or topic I wish to do so on. Yes, even on your precious Reilly line as you call it. Positive or negative.

Comparing me to a Cold War communist embassy with their heads in the sand? Japanese soldiers that continued to fight after the war was over.....all because you’re upset that I don’t buy into your obsession and fantasy of the Reilly company??
WTF was that? You think, you seriously think that you’ve provided absolute definitive proof of Reilly’s gunmaking prowess in the golden age??? And you think I’m the naive one, that my head is in the sand? Goodness gracious Gene, you’re really grasping for straws aren’t you?

Prove Reilly produced guns in the golden age, it’s on you. You haven’t come close yet. We are ALL still waiting.

Dustin
I'd like to see your positive evidence that Reilly made muzzle loaders. It's widely accepted - but not proven. That would be helpful Dustin.

And I've asked Gavin about that "Reilly" action and published his response. Because you see...there are 7 "actions" or "action kits" for sale in that auction.
-- Lot 143 - a T Bland & sons action casting
-- Lot 144 - Reilly 4 bore action
-- Lot 145 - Parts for a 4 Bore W Tolley action
-- Lot 146 - Parts for a 4 bore W. Tolley action
-- Lot 147 - Parts for a 4 bore Army-Navy action
-- Lot 148 - A pair of 20 bore actions for Henry Atkin type self-opening side-lock
Somebody is selling his collection and there is a story behind it. Why were they labeled like this? Is it from somebody's great-grandfather? Are there notes - written or oral history? You can post insults. I'll ask for the history from Gavin to try to understand who collected those actions and why,

Oh Dustin...are you now conceding that Reilly made guns in the 1860's?

And since you've raised this...I'm going to post both Boothroyd and Brown's entries on Reilly and will mark where they were wrong. I've discussed this with Crossed chisels and I'm on very solid ground....and I don't care who read the smoke signals...they're wrong.
This is your nutty obsession. Burden of proof is on you fella. You haven’t done it yet, doubt you’ll ever get there.

Show us all a “Reilly” action. Show us a Reilly house Style. Show us positive proof that Reilly made anything in the golden era of gunmaking.
Crossed Chisels aka David T knows for a fact Reilly produced guns? Does he know who their head stockmaker was? How about their lead actioner? Barrel makers? Does he know or has he EVER met anyone that knew someone who worked for Reilly or was trained by a gunmaker from Reilly??

You using Trevallion as someone to provide your argument a bit of credence to your fantasy is a garbage trick. People can see right through it. I know gunmakers too, dude. NONE of them believe your fantasy about Reilly. So what? Does it make my argument more persuasive if I name drop? I don’t need to drop their names to make my point.
No, I talked to David about Boothroyd who was a personal friend.
Dustin, Let me review 1880 which which I've mentioned above:

-- in 1881 Reilly made the decision to sell "off-the-rack." His Serial Numbered production jumped from 600 - 650 a year, where it had been for 12 years to over 1000 a year. How did he do this? He had two huge buildings but it seems like 650 a year was pretty much their capacity. At that point it is certainly possible he began to buy actions or guns in the white and finish them himself. His stocks and engraving remain very consistent.

-- So it's perfectly possible his business model changed about 1880...i.e. He could no longer compete with Birmingham...and I've mentioned that his military lines (Green and Comblain) and cutlery lines dried up in the 1870's and he had to find new streams of revenue. Please read the above. (I really don't think you've read anything)

-- Oh, Dustin, by 1898 Reilly was pretty much toast.

As for patents paid...they are stamped on the guns. Unfortunately few sellers publish these (Toby Barclay excepted)...I have put them in brown on the extant Reilly chart and you'll see lot's of use numbers paid to Purdey et.al. (Dustin...please read).

A Reilly "House Style"?? Dustin - really?

Anyway...as they say in the Hash House Harriers. ...."On On." I'll continue to let you know what I turn up. And Dustin....I am nutty but in a historical context - I got interested in this particular subject....I also wrote 173 papers on the Pashtun tribes along the Durrand line...it's just interesting to me.
I think Dustin's argument has merit, and what he says makes a lot of sense. Patent law was pretty well established in England by Reilly's time, and any astute businessman with a fairly large factory would certainly have tried to protect his ideas and innovations. And especially one who engaged in patent infringements himself. I can find a lot of anecdotal evidence for the existence of Santa Claus. I may wish to believe it too. But that alone won't make it true.

Does that 600 to 650 guns per year, or 1000 guns per year include air guns and air canes that Reilly actually did claim to manufacture? And does it also include the various other long guns and revolvers that Reilly apparently either made, or had made under contract, which infringed upon other gunmaker's designs and patents? If air guns and counterfeits were built in house, would his facilities and employees have also been able to build, finish, and engrave 1000 shotguns and double rifles per year?

That business model sounds a lot like the Chinese manufacturers who counterfeit merchandise, and who steal the intellectual property of legitimate designers and manufacturers. It seems to be acknowledged that Reilly engaged in these types of illicit ventures. That wouldn't make him someone to look up to or admire. I think it would make him more of a scalawag.
Ya. Really. Most London makers...Hell most Birmingham makers had a “house style”. You act like you’ve never heard that term Gene. An operation as big as Reilly’s would’ve had a house style, just to distinguish themselves. Face it, by the time Reilly hit the golden age...they were practically a Dicks Sporting Goods.
Dustin, Good Gracious God!! (and forgive the interjection). "House style" has been covered extensively!! Do you read? They had none! They were businessmen who made what would sell:

1862:


They were "Dick's Sporting Goods" of their times. Just look at the variety of the extant guns on the list!!! You guys need to learn to read!
“Good Gracious God”. Relax drama king.

You’re right...they were businessmen, not gun makers. Just like Dicks Sporting Goods. They don’t make the stuff they sell either.
Waiting for your evidence of who made the Reilly muzzle-loaders. That would be a big historical help.

And also of your analysis of the Reilly pin-fire center break gun SN 10655 (Spring 1858).

You see Dustin...like a lot of old-fashioned historians..I'm not ideological. I want to see the evidence. I've changed the Reilly "History" multiple times over the last four years and will change it again. Appreciate the help.
Waiting for your evidence to the contrary. Burden of proof in this entire thread is on your narrow shoulders, Gene. Also waiting for your evidence about Reilly actually, definitively making a modern rifle, breech loader, sword, pocket knife, cane, clothes, hat, anything.

Ya, I can read...I can also write, comprehend and a myriad of other fun things. Quit being a condescending prick.

Just provide ACTUAL proof...and we’ll go from there.

Not sure why you don’t start your own website on this subject, kind of like Mr. Barclays page on J. Blanch. Informative and if one wants to find it, it’s there for the looking. Not like this never ending saga of Reilly that one has to see whether they like it or not every day when they come to this page. Nothing ever new, or mind blowing....just you, Gene, posting article after highlighted article of one liners and conjecture. Nothing definitive or empirical. That’s it. Seriously, consider the route of Mr. Barclays Blanch page (which I love btw) Its really surprising to me that more members here haven’t spoken out on you telling them or better yet dictating to them what your theories and conclusions are and if they seemingly have doubts about anything that you post...that they’re basically uneducated & illiterate.
Pretty sour stuff Dustin. I sort of started off the research with this site about 4 years ago as a neophyte in the genre. It's a repository of historical research - none of it is set in stone. But until Dave says it's not appropriate, I'll choose to continue to post it here. Thanks. You don't have to read it.

and Dustin...in all seriousness....you said previously that you had absolute proof that Reilly built muzzle loaders.... That for a historian is gold!! Look ... this is not an insult -fest - it's history. I'm open to anything.
Look up Toby’s Blanch website. Be more like Toby.

http://www.jblanchdatabase.co.uk/page1.htm
Look you guys...Those actions for sale on Gavin's auctions are more than hunks of metal. I got up from bed thinking about them. You see...someone made them and intended them to be sent to somebody in London. Someone collected them as they were made (or not finished) and catalogued them and saved them. You just don't get get chunks of UK gunsmithing industrial history presented to you in one whack like this everyday. I'm a former intelligence officer and the questions obviously come up:

-- who made them
-- why?
-- for whom?
-- when? (it looks to me from 1870's to 1890's)
-- who collected them?
-- The steel is analyzed.....is there a historical reference to the quality?
-- Are there records?
-- What is the history - verbal? written?

I have written to Gavin asking to be put in contact with the seller....don't play laymen games with "I'm smarter than you" or "I'll validate myself by invalidating you" and get down to the nitty gritty. Find out who consigned those actions and the story behind them.




Originally Posted By: LeFusil
“Good Gracious God”. Relax drama king.

You’re right...they were businessmen, not gun makers. Just like Dicks Sporting Goods. They don’t make the stuff they sell either.


A pretty good summary.
Delta Tango here,have contact with 'friendly' in UK, might have some info comeing in about EMR. have mislaid last message from contact.....(Age is taking its toll on brain!!....over-out.
Roger that David. Thanks for the help. I believe that this line still has the best and most complete information on Reilly found anywhere and I'll continue to work to improve it. Gene Williams
An E. M. Reilly sleeved boxlock was my first "nice" shotgun. I enquired about it here back in the late '90s, I think. I was told then that Reilly was a marketer not a maker. I for one am glad Argo is examining this long expressed opinion.

I can't agree yet that he has 'proven' the fallacy of the marketer reputation, but at least I am open to whatever facts may be disclosed by Argo's research.

The Reilly I have is still one of my favorites...Geo
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Errors re Reilly in well known histories of UK gunmakers

These quotes on Reilly from well-known writers are not meant as digs at the authors - in the pre-internet days this was what was accepted as the "truth" about Reilly. This post then is meant to point out that gun scholarship about Reilly, once regarded as "fact," written by the most knowledgeable authors on UK gun-making and repeated by others over the course of 75 years, was in fact riddled with mis-statements, mis-conceptions and fundamental errors.

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Volume 3 of Nigel Brown's BRITISH GUNMAKERS - (courtesy of Lagopus.)

REILLY EDWARD MICHAEL/& Co/REILLY JOSEPH CHARLES. E.M. Reilly was the son of Joseph and took over the business in 1899 (*1) having been separated in business on his own account since 1848 (*2). Since it looks as though Edward may have continued his father's numbering system at least initially (*3), I have therefore tabulated both their records together. E.M Reilly was last recorded as such in 1917 (*4) but Charles Riggs & Co., who set up in 1909, started advertising himself as Charles Riggs & Co. (incorporating E.M. Reilly & co., Est. 100 years) c.1942 (*5) and from the look of the last Reilly gun noted he may well have been using the name a little before that. Reilly put out a large number of guns as can be seen from the Nos. noted - not all of which are listed. There was a Paris branch in the Rue Scribe certainly in the 1870's and 1880's.(*6)

Followed by a list of guns with numbers and dates starting with c.1840 No. 254, (*7) a percussion pistol, and ending in 1936/7 with number 150570.(*8)

Comment:
(*1) - No. He became a full partner in the business in 1840, JC retired abruptly in Sept 1857 and EM became the owner; He changed the name to EM Reilly & Co. in Oct 1859 and died in July 1890.
(*2) - No. The businesses were never separate - EM and JC shared the same building and advertisements to the end.
(*3) - Yes sort of. Although as detailed in this history, they bumped their main-line Serial Number series up 5000 numbers when they moved in March 1847 and JC kept a series of numbers for himself,
(*4) - No, EM Reilly & Co., is recorded in the 1918 London phone book.
(*5) - No, Riggs incorporated the Reilly name in August 1922.
(*6) - The Paris branch at Rue Scribe existed from Feb 1868 to July 1885.
(*7) - #254 would have been numbered in the 1820's - I've put it as 1829....it could be a bit earlier or later depending on the start date of Reilly manufacture and the first number he used. Terry Weiland cited 254 as the earliest Reilly as well. The oldest SN so far found is #88
(*8) - Riggs serial numbers are 6 digit beginning about 130000.

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Boothroyd's Directory of British Gunmakers on Reilly - (courtesy of Larry Brown.). (Better than most)

Joseph Charles Reilly first appeared as a jeweler at 12 Middle Row, Holborn, in 1816(*1).

By 1835 he had become a gunmaker at 316 High Holborn where he remained until 1847(*2). His son, Edward Michael Reilly became his father's partner at new premises(*3), 502 Oxford Street, first occupied around 1848 (*4). A shop at Rue Scribe, Paris, is recorded in 1882 and 1884, but not in 1893(*5). The name became Reilly & Co around 1860 (*6) and was already known as E.M. Reilly & Co in 1882.(*7)

In April 1903, due to the rebuilding of 277 Oxford street, the firm moved to number 295 on the same street and they appear to have remained there for some years as this address was given when they became a limited company in December 1911(*8). The directors were named as H. Reilly and C.W. Roberts (*9) and the capital was 2,000 pounds. In March 1920 Reilly's were incorporated into the business of Charles Riggs & Co Ltd of 107 Bishopsgate.(*10)


Comment:
(*1) - Close but no: Opened his Jewelry shop in 1814.
(*2) - Dates are correct: I have the month and day of the moves.
(*3) - No: I believe EM became a partner in the business in 1840 when his advertisements changed from "J.C. Reilly" to just "Reilly."
(*4) - 502 New Oxford St. was first occupied March 23, 1847.
(*5) - Yes...but 2 rue Scribe Paris was occupied from Feb 1868 to August 1885. Statement is correct but incomplete.
(*6) - Not exactly - "Reilly & Co., was used for a short time in Aug 1858-Spring 1859;
(*7) - Correct but incomplete; by Apr 1859 the name had changed to "E.M. Reilly & Co."
(*8) - Correct up to a point; Bankruptcy was declared publicly on 8 Jun 1912.
(*9) - Sort of: Roberts was a liquidator lawyer; I believe they knew bankruptcy was coming and thus created the Limited liability company to protect their personal fortunes.
(*10) - I do not believe this is correct. Riggs began advertising his sale of "E.M. Reilly & Co., London" guns in August 1922.

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Vintage British Shotguns by Terry Weiland, p. 259

E.M. Reilly & Co.

Edward Michael Reilly was a London gunmaker born 1816 (*1) who entered his father's business in 1848 (*2). By 1861 the firm was called Edward M. Reilly & Co. (*3), which later evolved into E.M Reilly & Co (*4). The firm was located in Oxford Street throughout its existence (*5), but the numbers changed sometimes because the firm moved and sometimes because the buildings were renumbered.

For awhile in the 1880's, the firm had an outlet on Rue Scribe in Paris (*6) - an indication of how successful the company was.

Although it was not a household name E.M Reilly was well respected and its products were used by two of the most famous hunters of the Victorian age Sir Samuel Baker and Frederick Courteney Selous. Baker used a pair of E.M. Reilly 10 bores to back up his monstrous "Baby"; Reading of this and seeking seeking to emulate the much admired Baker, Selous took a Reilly 12 bore with him on his first venture to Africa but the gun was stolen shortly after he landed.

E.M. Reilly lasted until 1917 (*7) when it was bought out by Charles Riggs & Co. (*8), which sold shooting accessories. The Reilly name disappeared from gun making. (*9)

Reilly is known to have made hammer guns and boxlocks most of which were probably made in Birmingham and finished at the shop in London (*10). Its boxlocks ranged from very basic to genuine bests.

Comment:
(*1) - No, EM was born Sep 1817
(*2) - No, EM entered the business as early as 1835 and by 1840 was probably a partner.
(*3) - No, There was never a firm called "Edward M. Reilly & Co."
(*4) - No, The name "EM Reilly & Co.", is first noted in April 1859.
(*5) - No, The firm in London was not always on Oxford street as detailed in the history.
(*6) - No, The Paris branch at Rue Scribe existed from Feb 1868 to July 1885, not just the 1880's.
(*7) - No, Company was still listed in the 1918 London directory.
(*8) - No, Riggs first began using the name "E.M. Reilly & Co., London" in August 1922.
(*9) - Riggs used the name on possibly as many as 20,000 guns, none built by him, all made in Birmingham.
(*10) - Terry cites no evidence for this assertion - although he does qualify it with the words "probably" and "most."

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From a UK help site - conclusions are worth noting

According to Nigel Brown's "British Gunmakers" , E.M. Reilly produced shotguns from around 1881 until at least 1916 in London in two locations and also had a retail store front on the Rue Scribe in Paris.

Reilly functioned in a similar fashion as did Scott, Webley and other London makers of the time in that his work was evenly divided between retail sales and also wholesale manufacture "to the trade". It appears that he made guns for several famous London makers who in turn marked his products with their Company names.

Reilly made weapons in several grades from pure field utilitarian (very plain) to extra fancy (heavy scroll engraving, cased, burl walnut grain stocks). Depending on the form and condition, the standard models retail from $325 to $450 and the higher grades up to $2,500 with collectors.
For the record in response to a question from Dustin - from this line a post by 300846: https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=333352
"There is a record (according to Crudgington & Baker) of Reilly paying 'royalties' to J D Dougall for use of the Lockfast patent which would point to him being a practical gunmaker."

You'll see mention of "Lockfast patent" in the 1862 ads above....same ad which states you can get a muzzleloading Reilly with Brazier Locks (for an extra Ł6 - obviously to pay the royalties).

I'll check C&B further for more of this type of information - didn't know it existed. Thanks 300846.

I don't have the book....do they cite sourcing for the information? Where did they get this? - JD Dougall records? Did individual manufacturers keep records of royalties paid to them? by them? I have written to Purdey asking if they have such records. I may write to other still extant gun makers who might have such records.
Royal Armories Museum has sent me four documents from John Blanch's scrapbook which are interesting. I'll post 3 of them here - the 4th, engineering drawings of breech loading revolving cylinder rifles and pistols is not so relevant:

1). This is the receipt for a center break gun bought by William Blanch from Beringer in 1855. This may be the very gun he brought back to England to reverse engineer - this is the dawn of the British center-break gun industry:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

2). Ad for E. Dafour center break gun at the 1855 Paris Universelle - highlighting Blanch's interest in the subject. The gist to the advertisement is that this gun can be loaded from the muzzle or from the breech, depending on what munitions are available. (I can translate it in its entirety if someone wishes). (incidentally, I've noticed French advertisements are much more "hyped" that UK ads at the time).

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

3) A pamphlet written by Joseph Lang in January 1857 extolling the advances of the Breech Loading Gun: - on p,12 he lists his accomplishments including a first place medal in the 1855 Paris Universelle and being voted a member of the Academie National. He mentions he has used breech loaders for 3 years - which would mean he began to shoot them in January 1854....and that he was currently making breech loaders (as of Jan 1857)(p.9). etc.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Argo44, the Beringer receipt and the Lang pamphlet really made my day, thanks for posting them.
In trying to find out if patent royalty payments were made to companies other than JD Dougall I wrote to Purdey asking if they retained records of royalty payments made to the company from other companies for the years 1860-1890. I received the following reply:

Dear Mr. Williams

Thank you for your email. I am afraid that, as far as I am aware, we do not retain a record of payments made for patent usage. Given the date when these patents were in force, the finances of the company were tied up with those of the family, and those ledgers are currently locked (quite literally!) As such, I don't think I have anything that will be of assistance to you, but should you have any further questions I will be happy to assist as best I can.

Yours sincerely

Dr. Nicholas A. Harlow
Gunroom Manager

James Purdey & Sons Ltd
Audley House
57-58 South Audley Street
London, W1K 2ED


I'm still wondering where Crudgington & Baker got their information on Dougall. I'll have to go down to Library of Congress to take a look at the book unless someone here has a copy. Still, this is a line of inquiry to be followed.
Argo44, not sure if any of this is helpful, but some time ago I had about a dozen original hand written contracts between Westley Richards and various gunmakers wishing to use their various patents, including Deeley controlled patents. Each of these contracts specified the payment for each patent use and that the other gunmakers were to bring by their guns using the patents to Westley Richards for inspection and numbering of the uses. Exceptions to this process were later granted to Scott who would not bring the products by for inspection and Harrington Richardson in the U.S. , who had sole U.S. license for the Anson Deeley patent. H and R would use the serial number as the patent use number.
I have a Richard Jeffery pinfire with a Dougall Lockfast action with the Dougall Lockfast marks on the underside. Action is stamped J Wilkes in a mostly hidden area meaning that he was probably the actioner.

You have probably seen this Reilly pinfire.

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...3&saletype=
Many thanks Daryl. Here's my thinking on patents (and please correct me if I'm wrong). If Reilly built a gun, it's logical that the Reilly company paid for the patents. Thus, if a company's records have Reilly payments - voila proof they made the gun. If Reilly ordered a gun and it was built by say WC Scott or someone else, Scott would have paid for the patents and Reilly would have paid Scott for the gun.

That was what Crudgington & Baker were suggesting with their comment about the "Lock-fast" patent. Does that seem logical? Are there other explanations? For instance, one poster here suggested firms bought whole blocks of numbers rather than taking an order then having to go get a use number. From the looks of use numbers on Reilly Purdey patent 1104, that explanation doesn't fit.

As mentioned, most auction houses or retail sellers do not bother to put patent use numbers found on a gun into their advertisements, Toby Barclay excluded. Here are a few Reilly's using Purdey patent 1104 with the use number. I was hoping that Purdey could confirm who paid for that patent use number:

17393 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and 2 Rue Scribe, Paris; 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Push-forward U-L, hammer gun. Purdey Pat 1104, use #948 (CBL1's gun) (dated on my chart 1872)
17476 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, Hammer gun (Buffum) (Purdey Pat 1104)(use# not mentioned)(1872)
17534 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 12 bore, SxS shotgun. Pushforward underlever, Purdy 1104 patent use # 1037.(1872)
18523 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street & rue Scribe, Paris. Shotgun SxS 12bore; U-L, hammer gun, Purdey patent 1104, use #2135(1874)
20468 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. 10bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever hammer gun; Purdey patent 1104 use #3463 (1877)
25161 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. .500BPE/12ga. Rifle/Shotgun; side lever, hammer gun. (King of Spain prize - 1880 case; 1883 gun) Purdey double-bite patent 1104 (use # not mentioned)

=========================================================

As for the pinfire SN 11469, it was in the September 2019 auction and did not sell...given its rareness and condition and very moderate price that seemed surprising. I dated the SN to Sprin 1860. I commented on it previously on this line and here is my entry in the extant Reilly list on p.33 above:

11469 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (Address not mentioned). 12 bore; SxS; Pin-fire; under-lever, bar-in-wood.(1st SN'd extant center-break gun using Jones under-lever Sep 1859 patent)

After our discussion on the early days of British center-break guns above with Steve Nash, I'm now wondering if this is a Jones U/L or whether it is a single bite copy of Beringer's system. I wrote to Holts about this and never heard back...since the gun is coming up for sale again, I'll hit them up again. I do know that by 1861 Reilly was advertising a underlever "double-grip" system - see post above.

I've sent the following to Holts:
Sir, re the Reilly pin-fire SN 11469, lot number 2136 in your January 2020 sealed bid auction: Is this a single bite Reilly copy of the Beringer design or a double-bit Jones under-lever? Many thanks for the information.
I follow your line of thinking, Argo. I would guess not all holders of patents used the same patent use process that Westley Richards did. Of course they were one of the industry leaders, but I'm not sure others did exactly the same.

As to when the Patent Use fees were paid during the process of making a complete gun, I don't know except for the Westley Richards process. I believe that the guns Westley Richards had brought to them were in a state of being unfinished, completely, but were operable assemblies that Westley Richards could approve. Now, we do not know when a partially finished gun was brought to Westley Richards, who brought it in. It could have been an outworker like J. Wilkes with the Dougall patent gun, or it could be the company who finally finished the gun, partially made elsewhere. So, to answer your question, if Reilly names show up paying for patent use on the ledgers of others, it seems not to prove one way or another who made the working barreled action, Reilly or others for Reilly.
Yes....that's what I was afraid of....still more mystery in the English gun-making progress - how did patent use numbers work? Were all firms the same? How did numbering systems work? How did outworkers contracts work? Does a gun company get credit for building a gun if barrels, engraving, barrel blacking were outsourced? Nevertheless, delving into the patent use question may add a piece to the puzzle.

By the way, more from Purdey....."Stranger and stranger," said Alice to the Rabbit. All these years everybody has said that Purdey was next door to Reilly because Purdey was 314 1/2 and Reilly was 315. Turns out Purdey was 300 yards down the street in a building later renumbered 295...meaning that was the very building that Reilly moved into in 1904 - and one more indication that conventional wisdom about Reilly is wrong (I don't know how many times "Reilly next to Purdey" has been cited).

Dear Mr. Williams

The patent use numbers on the guns may assist you, as may stamps applied to the barrels such as the "JA" of Joseph Asbury. However, on a side note, it is worth looking at where Reilly's actually operated from. I say this because we actually had 313 & 315 Oxford Street, with the factory in 313 and the shop in 315. We used 314 1/2 from 1827 until we left in 1882 because there was more than one 315 Oxford Street, another one of which held a gunmaker called Rivere at some point. When they renumbered the street in the late 1870s, we became 295-297, but used the 314 1/2 address on guns until we moved to Audley House. I know that the Survey of London are working on research on Oxford Street, and I can ask them to see whether they might be able to confirm Reilly's "true" position on the street?

I hope that this is of some help.
=======================================================================================================
Reilly cartridges


Reilly made cartridges for center break guns from 1860 on. They have been found in digs in Canada . His foreman John Baker took out a patent for finishing cartridges in 1861 as detailed above. He did not have the cartridges made for him by someone. And he was a rival for Eley. Here is a Reilly Patent turnover/crimper made by James Dixon:


Cartridges were a major revenue producer for Reilly (as mentioned above when discussing pin-fires). Let me repost these to put it in one place:

John Baker's 1861 patent for Reilly:


And an ad for Baker's system from 1862:


E.M. Reilly & Co. pin-fire cartridge head stamping:


Drawing of E.M Reilly & Co. center fire cartridges found in an archeological dig in Canada:
And for fun for you all who have never had the opportunity to travel to the sub-continent (I only spent 11 years there)....here is an Indian muslim shikari discussing in Hindi/Urdu his EM Reilly SN (as best I can make out) 20498, a top lever, ejector hammer gun which would date per my chart to 1877. From what I gather this was a famous gun, owned by a notable person and it suddenly devolved in 1977 to ...someone...I'll have to tap our Indian community for the translation,

I know these people....I can smell the hut. You can hear the budgerigars (parakeets) in the background, the kids, smell the curry. I'm suddenly homesick. (Except in my day the charpoy would not be made out of plastic).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qQ3S1rkKD4
Dr. Harlow from Purdey has sent another message saying he was in error about the shop occupied by Purdey on Oxford Street....they were renumbered 287 & 289 in November 1881. Here is the location of Purdey in relationship to Reilly's workshop at 277 Oxford Street from Google Earth:









The access tunnel to the Salvation Army Hall through 277 Oxford St. above was what provoked the law-suit in 1889 which is still quoted today

I've seen quotes from this line starting to be used by auction houses. On p.22 I offered some short versions of the New History for this purpose (and it took 2.5 years of research before I dared write that history). I'll repost it here for practical use by whomever:

Offer this short version for auction houses with limited space for a gun description:
Begin proposed comment:

"Per a well-researched chart dating Reilly SN's, SN NNNNN was likely numbered circa YYYYY (year).". (consult the dating chart for Reilly serial numbers on p.33)

Then add one of the following comments:

============================ Short ========================

Joseph Charles Reilly, b1786, Ireland, moved to London to study law c1808. In 1814 he opened a jewelry shop at 12 Middle Row, Holborn Bars, next to the Inns of the Court where his clientele included barristers and country gentlemen. He began making guns in the 1820's and by 1833 identified himself exclusively as "gun maker." From the beginning he employed a consistent business model; Make a quality product, sell it for a moderate price; deliver it rapidly; and with this model he undercut better known gun makers.

In 1835 he moved to 316 High Holborn where in 1840 his 23 year old son Edward Michael joined him as a partner in the company. In March 1847 they moved to 502 New Oxford Street (renumbered "16" in 1881) where they remained for 50 years. The gun ribs were for the most part labeled "Reilly." The company advertised as "Reilly, Gun Maker."

In September 1857 JC Reilly retired in favor of EM. In January 1859 a branch was opened at 315 Oxford Street (renumbered 277 in 1881) and that autumn the company name was changed to E.M. Reilly & Co., a name which lasted on gun ribs and on trade labels and advertisements until circa 1940 and beyond. A branch was opened in Paris at 2 rue Scribe in 1868 after his triumphal exhibition at the 1867 Paris World's Fair.

By 1880 Reilly was making twice as many bespoke hand-made guns as Purdey and Holland & Holland combined and his guns dominated UK pigeon shooting contests for 20 years. In August 1885 rue Scribe was closed and in 1890 EM Reilly died. In 1898 16 New Oxford street was closed.

In 1903 the company moved from 277 to 295 Oxford street where they remained until bankruptcy in June 1912. A small gun shop E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Maker, located at 13 High Street, Marylebone run by EM Reilly's son, continued in business until 1918. In 1922 a sporting goods dealer Charles Riggs bought the name "E.M Reilly & Co." and used it for many years on his retailed guns made in Birmingham. Riggs-Reillys use six digit serial numbers.

The Reilly's sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly's serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1825 to 1912, all built by them. The guns that they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. They were one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was consistently classy. Reilly's best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.


============================ Shorter ========================

The Reilly's, Joseph Charles (JC) Reilly (1786-1864), his son Edward Michael (EM) (1817-1890) and his EM's sons Bert and Charles, made guns in London from the early 1820's to 1918 working out of several address including in order:
-- 1814-1835 - 12 Middle Row, Holborn Bars;
-- 1835-1847 - 316 High Holborn;
-- 1847-1898 - 502 ("16" after 1881) New Oxford Street;
-- 1859-1903 - 315 ("277" after 1881) Oxford Street;
-- 1868-1885 - a branch at 2 rue Scribe, Paris
-- 1903-1912 - 295 Oxford Street
-- 1912-1918 - 13 High Street, Marylebone
In 1922 the Reilly name was bought by sporting goods dealer Charles Riggs who used it for many years on his retailed guns made in Birmingham. These guns can be identified by their use of six digit serial numbers.

Reilly sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1825 to 1912, all built by them. The guns that they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. They were one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was consistently classy. Reilly's best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.

============================ Shorter ========================

Reilly (JC Reilly-1786-1864, his son EM-1817-1890 and after EM's death the grandsons) made guns in London from the early 1820's to 1918. For much of that time they were located on Oxford Street or its vicinity with a branch in Paris for 17 years 1868-85. After 1922 the Reilly name was used on guns retailed by Charles Riggs but made in Birmingham. Reilly's sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1825 to 1912, all built by them. The guns they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. They were one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was consistently classy. Reilly's best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.

============================ Shortest ========================

Reilly (JC Reilly-1786-1864, his son EM-1817-1890 and after EM's death the grandsons) made excellent quality guns in London from the early 1820's to 1918. After 1922 a sporting goods dealer used the name on guns he sold built in Birmingham.
Holt's replied to my question about Reilly 11460 pin-fire with pictures - they did not know what a Beringer action looked like. First impressions:
-- the SN is 14469 (early 1867) not 11469 - quite disappointing; I'll change the entry on the extant list. (You'd think auction houses would be more careful)
-- It looks like a Jones underlever double-bite locking system?
-- the forearm looks to be attached to the stock in the old Lefaucheux method:
-- The gun is a lot rattier than the original picture made it appear.





Is that tab a hammer rest on the top of each fence where there is a bit of cross-hatching?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
I assume so...Here a close up up the action from the auction catalog - you can see the hammer resting on that area:

Interesting shapes to the hammer noses... And wonderful to get additional pictures. It does look like a generic Jones-type double bite screw grip. The additional barrel lug is not a type I’ve encountered before. Fixed fore-ends were more common on Continental-sourced actions (I have a Masu Brothers pinfire with a fixed fore-end, of Belgian design, but it is not a bar-in-wood), but not unknown amongst British makers. All bar-in-wood actions seem to be different from one another, and therefore all are special.

At least the (correct) serial number is in keeping with your timeline, the design and presumed date do not conflict.

There is always something to add to the story, and I look forward to the next instalments!
Yeah, those hammers resemble Dolphins or Porpoises. I don't recall, but did makers from the little British Isles adorn there weapons like the Continental makers? Yeah, the Austrians hung on to that attached platform till The Great War or possibly a little later.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Hammers on extant Reilly pinfires all resemble each other over the 13 years in my files:


10655 (1858). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .No Sn (1862?) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .12920 (1862)(muzzle loader)


No SN (note the early S-L). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14469 (1867). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .15129 (1868)


15255 (1868). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16810 (1871) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17204 (1871)


But during the 1860's Reilly's centerfire hammers were also ornate:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .15287 (1868). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .16765 (1871)

Neat comparison. Many thanks for the effort.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Similarities...yet beautiful differences and stylistic flourishes.

The feel, and sound, of pulling back a hammer is really missing on a hammerless gun.
About Reilly ,

From the book, The Cape Gunsmith, by Barry M. Berkovitch, there is a section listing various makers/sellers. This one talks of a gun by Reilly.

Thanks Daryl, that fits with what others said about Reilly in this era: Here is a gun (previously posted) he made for Oaks & Co., Madras, no serial number, probably late 1880's.



Note: the top of the frame is marked “Ellis & Scots Patent” by the release lever. If Scot built the gun, why have a patent number on it? That was paid for.
Originally Posted By: Argo44
Thanks Daryl, that fits with what others said about Reilly in this era: Here is a gun (previously posted) he made for Oaks & Co., Madras, no serial number, probably late 1880's.



I highly doubt Reilly made that gun. I highly doubt anyone at Reilly laid a hand on that gun during its manufacture.
Few people seem to bother with what exactly Holland made, finished, or sold

Holland ensured quality in what they put their name on. Later they of course went in house, which is the opposite of many labels.

It appears Reilly did likewise within the parameters of the grade in question.

The long going argument between some on what Reilly “made” “finished” or just sold is tiresome.

Cherry picking from the documentary evidence can make whichever answer you want.

Unfortunately, the lack of witnesses and or more specific documentation will likely leave us without a prefect answer indefinitely

PS I own a late Reilly which may or may not have been made by Reilly, but either way it is a nice gun.
Dustin, what you said is possibly true; it's also possible Reilly built major components of the gun and certainly finished it. I'm working on it...building a case...more to come. Your objections are well known - I've answered some of them but give me a chance to finish this. Thanks.
Originally Posted By: old colonel
Few people seem to bother with what exactly Holland made, finished, or sold

Holland ensured quality in what they put their name on. Later they of course went in house, which is the opposite of many labels.

It appears Reilly did likewise within the parameters of the grade in question.

The long going argument between some on what Reilly “made” “finished” or just sold is tiresome.

Cherry picking from the documentary evidence can make whichever answer you want.

Unfortunately, the lack of witnesses and or more specific documentation will likely leave us without a prefect answer indefinitely

PS I own a late Reilly which may or may not have been made by Reilly, but either way it is a nice gun.


I’m not cherry picking anything, dude. Difference here is that while H&H certainly brought in complete guns, finished barreled actions etc, they freely admit to it and they can name who was running the shop, who was lead actioner, stocker, barrel maker, and engravers for guns they completely built in house. NOTHING seems to exist that can even come close to backing up the claims of Reilly’s advertising from the period. Do you find it odd that while Reilly’s shop was only a few doors down from Purdeys at one point......not one soul from that legendary firm knows another gunmaker, jobber or iron monger from Reilly? What’s that tell you?? You don’t have to be the Hardy Boys to figure it out.
Not one person has said that the guns Reilly sold weren’t of good quality, or “nice” guns. That’s besides the point, OC.
Dustin, I'll answer that like I did the "where are their ranges" or "did they produce military guns" or "Did Brown and Boothroyd err in their comments on Reilly" questions relying on 19th century sources not 20th century opinion. By the way, you haven't answered one of the questions I've asked of you. I've taken note of your objections and opinions, now please give it a rest and give me liberty to continue the research.
Originally Posted By: Argo44
Dustin, I'll answer that like I did the "where are their ranges" or "did they produce military guns" questions relying on 19th century sources not 20th century opinion. By the way, you haven't answered one of the questions I've asked of you. I taken note of your objections, now please give it a rest and give me liberty to continue the research.


Give you the liberty to continue your research? Did I take it away from you? When did that happen? My goodness, if I ever took away your liberty, I’m extremely sorry!! I had no idea I ever took it from you in the first place. Well....I’m as confused as ever.

You’re seriously asking me to give it a rest? Really? Isn’t that rich.
You literally post here almost every day. On the same topic. Same gunmaker referenced even if it’s someone else post on guns not related to Reilly’s. I don’t think I’m the one that needs to “give it a rest”. Gene, you should seriously take some time off, enjoy your family and the holidays. Staying up till 2 am worrying about what someone post on here or disagrees with you on isn’t healthy let alone sane.
Take it easy man...breathe deep, exhale slow. Everything will be ok. Have a great Holiday season.
Thanks Dustin. It's 9:30 PM here...at the age of 75 I've gone back on contract once again. If I post late at night it usually means I'm abroad - and I've spent 25 out of the last 50 there. And if I comment on other makers' guns, it's only because I have compiled a database of every extant Reilly and think there might be something in those serial numbered guns, which I've now been able to date, which might be relevant. That's it.

This line is about Reilly. When I find something I put it here and synthesize later. Try not to be so angry...I'll be answering your questions and I pay attention to disagreements and logical arguments - for a historian those are important - you have to be able to defend your thesis. and Merry Christmas. Gene

Glad you noticed the position on Oxford Street of Reilly and Purdey...now that was subject of mistakes by virtually every 20th century author. So something comes out of this.

(Edit: For those who think it took a massive building to be called a "factory," take a look at Purdey's building at renumbered 287-289 Oxford St. - it housed the manufactory, the retail spaces and the office. It was about the same size as Reilly's second building 277 Oxford Street.)

Edit: Oh by the way...on that Gavin Gardiner "Reilly action" I got up because I was just plain excited not because of some post. You see...it wan't me who identified it as a "Reilly action"...nor was it Gavin....it was the consigner and the consigner insisted on it being so identified in the auction. Why? There had to be a story behind it ...there was history behind this sale - one can smell it - (Who made it? Where - Birmingham or London? When and why was it acquired? by whom?) and I hope Gavin will ultimately put me in contact with the consigner for that story.
Argo44,
I share your level of passion but for the guns of William Powell.
From my corner of the world please know that I appreciate all
your technical posts.

Larry Shelton, the author of California Gunsmiths: 1846 to 1900
and J.P Clabrough was my shooting partner until he passed last
November. No new discovery about our passions was too small
to hurriedly share with each other. I miss him.
Originally Posted By: LeFusil

You’re seriously asking me to give it a rest? Really? Isn’t that rich.
You literally post here almost every day. On the same topic. Same gunmaker referenced even if it’s someone else post on guns not related to Reilly’s. I don’t think I’m the one that needs to “give it a rest”. Gene, you should seriously take some time off, enjoy your family and the holidays. Staying up till 2 am worrying about what someone post on here or disagrees with you on isn’t healthy let alone sane.
Take it easy man...breathe deep, exhale slow. Everything will be ok. Have a great Holiday season.


It's long past a Reilly obsession....it's become a Reilly demonic possession.
Another new label:

This is from Holts 2 Jan unsold lots...it's from the case of a pistol:
Lot 2121: A CASED 30-BORE PERCUSSION BELT-PISTOL SIGNED REILLY, MODEL 'SIDEHAMMER BOXLOCK', no visible serial number, with signed octagonal 3 1/2in. barrel, engraved radiused sidehammer action with guarded trigger, chequered bag-shaped grip and captive ramrod, in a later wood case with accessories.



Note the first use of "Reilly" and the experiment with the wavy lines which carried forward to later Reilly labels; The "Gun Maker" font carrying over from the earlier label, and the first experiment with a slanted font "London." It's all pretty "cartoonish"...and the ad says a "later" case so it's possible this was someone's personal art to recreate the label - (if so pretty damned neat) - but I believe it's possible this was a transition label between the "J.C. Reilly" "Removed from Holborn" "business card" label pictured on two guns from 1847 and 1848



....and the new label with the sketch of 502 New Oxford street the earliest of which is found on the case of an 1851 Adams revolver:



I'll be updating the label cheat sheet on p.34...two new labels found in two months....both transition labels that add a lot. There are always things to uncover.

Edit: This from Holts about the label -
"Hi Gene, I do believe it is a homemade drawing which as you say is pretty well done but I don’t think genuine."
(signed) Josh Pover, Gun Room, Holt's Auctioneers)
Josh <josh@holtsauctioneers.com>

(yet I keep wondering...might this be EM's original art for his idea of what was to become the Reilly 1849 label? Far fetched...but possible. If objects could talk)

About 20 pages ago I commented that Reilly stocks and engraving were almost instantly recognizable to me (being a Reilly historian and having looked at every extant Reilly). Just to demonstrate...and this doesn't mean squat intellectually - just artistically...it just looks very familiar..
. . . . . .16765 (1871) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The un-serial-numbered Reilly made for Oakes & Co., Madras circa 1890 (pictured above)


And yes...the engraving along with the elegance and wood of the stocks and the gun balance do indeed identify a "Reilly house style" (as much as can be attributed to a gun maker that built as many different types and calibers of guns as Reilly did in the 1860's) as was commented on by several writers. It's not quantifiable...but it is an artistic judgement.
====================================================================
2000+ hours of research.


Work is currently being conducted on British census records, 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891, primarily, going through the London census manually which is taking some time. However, as the new year approaches here is what has been accomplished by this line over the last four years. Afterwards will move the three most important posts for most dealers and owners distilling:
1) the dating of Reilly trade/case labels,
2) the working, dated list of Reilly Serial Numbered extant guns, and
3) the latest version of the New History of Reilly - regularly up-dated, modified since it was published in Diggory Hadoke's on-line magazine.

Partial list of methodology and accomplishments:
-- Extant SN gun list: First, a list of extant Serial Numbered guns was compiled and difference between non serial number - serial numbered, long guns- hand guns understood, address/names on ribs recorded, patent use numbers noted, characteristics of each gun marked. etc.
-- Product list/dates: All Reilly advertisements and mentions in contemporary newspapers from 1825 to 1922 were gone over, new products noted and their dates, changes in names, addresses, references to their use, etc., including all Reilly exhibits at international exhibitions.
-- Shop locations/dates: Correct addresses, time periods of occupation and photos of Reilly shops and workshops in London and Paris were compiled and published - using primary sources from the 19th century - which including understanding the geography of 19th century London and Paris and the location of competitors.
-- Dating guns: Extant guns were dated using "marker dates" and the list was corroborated by "sanity checks," patent dates (researched extensively and compiled), dates on advertisements, etc.
-- Reilly labels: A library of Reilly trade/case labels was compiled and ultimately dated as best it can be.
-- General history written: Once this was understood, a general history of the firm was published correcting errors in every published account of Reilly over the last 75 years.

Note: this began as an ambitious attempt to create a chart year-by-year from 1825 on detailing what was happening to Reilly, Serial numbers, labels, family history, guns made, general UK history, history of the UK gun industry, melding in European history, metallurgy, advancements in patents...sort of a horizontal "what's happening" historical very-visual record that proved to be impossible to sustain or to create something that could actually be understood.

(I didn't have the talent....if anyone wants to read the greatest such effort in the world of historical scholarship...take a look at these thin, beautiful edited, map-centric books by Colin McEvedy - they are all one needs to understand Western History, society, culture, influence and should be in every library:

https://www.amazon.com/New-Penguin-Atlas-Ancient-History/dp/0140513485
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books...avid-woodroffe/
https://www.amazon.com/Penguin-Atlas-Modern-History-1815/dp/0140511539
https://www.amazon.com/New-Penguin-Atlas...XMHG2EA2BT9Z2SX

And along the way these topics were extensively researched:
-- Gun making under license: Reilly building guns under license from other patent holders such as Wesley-Richards, etc. was studied.
-- UK Patents and patent use numbers: A list of prominent UK patents used on historical UK guns and on Reilly's was compiled; An attempt was made to try to understand UK patent use numbers and payment for same.
-- Personal history: Personal elements contributed by a Reilly kin and by other knowledgeable authors were added once these were verified.
-- Military contracts: Reilly attempts to win a military contract from Arsenal over 1840-1870 was researched and published.
-- Center Break guns: Reilly very early involvement in making and promoting break action (Fusils a Bascule) pin-fires from the beginning of the UK center-break gun industry in the mid 1850's including his involvement in the "Field" trials in 1858, 59 was detailed.
-- Military breech-loaders: History of Reilly involvement in the attempt to get Arsenal to consider, then adopt breech loaders including petitions to reopen the 1853 adoption of the Enfield rifle-musket in favor of the Prince, and in the Arsenal sponsored breech loading competitions of '65 and '69-70' were researched.
-- Green Bros breech-loader manufacture: Reilly history of manufacturing Green Brothers patent breech loaders 1864-71 was reviewed.
-- Prince breech-loader manufacture: Ditto to Reilly history of manufacturing Prince patent breech loaders 1857-70.
-- Comblain manufacture: Ditto to Reilly manufacturing of the Reilly-Comblain breech loader 1867-1875.
-- Stocks and Engraving: Distinctive Reilly stocks and engraving style was researched and documented.
-- Yoemanry Militia: Reilly wholesale sales to Yoemanry Militia for 35 years was documented.
-- Shooting grounds: Reilly shooting grounds and gallery were identified..
-- Air gun library: Reilly history of air-gun/air-cane making 1841 - 1880's was detailed and documented and a photo library of guns compiled.
-- Royal warrant: Reilly attempts to obtain a royal warrant in 1862 mentioned (there is a lot more to this...) and his obtaining Royal warrants from Netherlands, France, Spain and Portugal.
-- Prosecution: Reilly prosecution for violating British neutrality in the Franco-German war of 1871 mentioned for the first time ever.
-- Foremen: Two Reilly foremen, one from 1861 and the other 1898 identified
-- Cartridge manufacture: Reilly involvement in manufacturing cartridges from the late 1850's researched.
-- Pigeon shooting: Reilly involvement in Pigeon shooting competitions and his manufacture of guns to Hurlingham specifications was extensively researched and reviewed.
-- Famous explorers/hunters: Use of Reilly guns by famous African explorers and hunters was gone over...including use by some of the most renowned hunters and explorers of the age.
-- Writers of the age: As was the use of Reilly's guns by some of the most knowledgeable gun-sport writers of the day, who were physically in Reilly's shops.
-- Bankruptcy: Date of bankruptcy in 1912 was identified and corrected.
-- Riggs: Date of the purchase of the Reilly name by Charles Riggs in 1922 was corrected., the serial numbers of the Rigg's guns identified, and a history of sorts of Charles Riggs was compiled (a lot of this not yet published).
-- Commercial sales-hand guns: Reilly commercial sales of pistols and revolvers reviewed, including his engraving of same and his importation of Liege guns in parts, which were assembled in his workshops in London.
-- Commercial sales-rifles: Reilly commercial sales of other rifles he did not make including Sharps, Winchester, Wesley-Richards, etc. was gone over.
-- Silver maker mark: His 1818 silver maker's mark was discovered and silverware and other items his jewelry shop made was published (there is more to this that hasn't been posted).
-- there are dozens of more topics that have been researched:
. . . . . - manufacturing processes,
. . . . . - barrel blacking and engraving,
. . . . . - tools used in mid-1800's gun maker shops,
. . . . . - anti-catholic prejudice at the time
. . . . . - history of UK princes who bought or gave Reilly guns.
. . . . . - waisted bullets - origin, use...flat trajectory advantages.
. . . . . - Worlds' Fair medals
. . . . . - militia organization,
. . . . . - gun-club rules and organizations,
. . . . . - pigeon shooting rules,
. . . . . - silver-smith requirements,
. . . . . - history of jewelers making guns,
. . . . . - gun permit fees,
. . . . . - history of the Arsenal 1865 and 1869-70 breech loading competitions,
. . . . . - history of UK military rifles,
. . . . . - Pretty much the history of Western Europe in the 19th century, especially France of Napoleon III and its poetry.
. . . . . - London Proof House history, records
. . . . . - Dating the EM Reilly authored air-gun pamphlet...etc.

-- And prima facie evidence was presented that over 90 years Reilly was more than just a "retailer!"

Will advise additional facts as they turn up.

And for all of you who have contributed to this history (I've repeatedly changed the chronology based on new information from this board), welcome additions or objections/dissensions to this narrative. Opinions are ok but history would prefer facts - thanks. After all, this is UK gun history and is very much a work-in-progress.

Trade/Case label compendium moved from p.34 and updated:
For those selling, researching Reilly's - a simple Reilly label cheat sheet to accompany the "New History" above. (It's discussed in more detail in two previous posts). This is not written in stone - a label for EM Reilly & Co., Gun Maker (Oct 59-Aug 60) (6 below) was used on a gun case housing a gun dated 1863 (#12960). But it will get you close:



"Outlier labels" - all with "Gun & Rifle Manufacturers" on the labe (post 1869)l


Reilly Presentation Case labels:- Note change from "Gun Manufacturers" to "Gun & Rifle Manufacturers" to "Gun & Rifle Makers"; All using the exact same Fonts over 40 years.


This is a "custom" case/trade label for 23577 (1883) pictured above.


Holt's believes this Label for a side-lock o/u muzzle loading pistol is homemade, not printed thus not part of the chronology. (Yet per above one must wonder who made this. Might this be E.M.'s original art for his concept of the new 1849-50 time-frame Reilly label?)

===========================================================================================
1820-1912 - Extant Gun Chronology - moved to P.57
===========================================================================================
1820-1912 - Extant Gun Chronology Part 1 - moved to P.57
Updated History along with the SN date chart and footnotes moved to p.48
This gun made by Reilly for Oaks and Co. Madras mentioned a couple of times above, has no recorded serial number and thus the possible conclusions:
-- It was engraved, marketed, and retailed by Reilly but not built by him," or
-- It was built by Reilly but for another firm and thus not claimed (as at least one internet poster has maintained Reilly did for a number of London gun makers)
(-- or of course...the seller just forgot to put the SN in the ad - entirely possible - in which case it was indeed built by Reilly under license).



I'm still trying to understand how the UK patent use number licensing system worked in Britain in the 1860-90 time frame. Daryl gave an idea about how Westley-Richards handled licensing fees in an above post, but the whole subject area is murky.

From the description there is a reference to an "Ellis & Scots Patent" inscribed on the frame (no patent use number mentioned) (assuming "Scots" = "Scott").

Question:
-- Who was Ellis?
-- What patent might this refer to?
-- Was Ellis bought out by Scott?
-- If Scott built the gun for Reilly, would he have put "Scott Patent" on it?
-- If Scott only built the action, and sold it to Reilly would he have put "Scott Patent" on it?
-- If so, are there other examples of Scott built actions with "Scott Patent" on guns made by other makers?
-- or did Reilly pay for the patent and build it himself (in which case there should be a patent use number)?

Sorry for the pedantry, but this seems an important detail in understanding who built what component, when, in British gun history. And guns, all guns, Westley-Richards, etc., could and were built by other makers under license in the 1800's. Reilly sold Westley Richards rifles - he also built them himself under patent. (There were probably 50 makers of 1911 Colt .45's made under license...I can provide a list of these makers if need be to prove a point).

Here is the original ad for the gun:
Classic full side lock double-barrel 12ga shotgun with Damascus pattern barrels by E. M. Reilly & Co. London marked, manufactured for Oaks & Co. Madras (India). The gun shows 30-1/8” barrels, 46-1/2” overall with stock measuring approx. 14-7/8 from the front trigger to the end of the horn rubber buttplate. The gun shows standard extractors. The water table shows a series of English proofs and reproofs, 2-1/2” chamber, 3 grams black powder, 1-1/8 oz of shot. Proofed to 3 tons. Left barrel marked 740, right barrel marked 719. The gun shows a quality bank note scroll engraved frame with nicely rebrowned barrels showing 90% thinning, correct color old tobacco brown restored finish. The action has been lightly polished a satin grey, the top of the frame is marked “Ellis & Scots Patent” by the release lever. The trigger guard shows an old reblued finish of which the the trigger and other mounts show a 90 – 95% old flat reblued finish. The nicely burled stocks show refreshing long ago and are in very good condition with some small losses and light wear. The mechanism is tight and action good, bore is very good. A quality side lock London gun by a well-recognized maker. Est.: $3,500 - $7,000

From David Baker`s excellent book on Thomas Horsley.
Ellis & Scott patent No 2816 was by taken out by Richard Ellis gunmaker and Henry Scott ,gunlock and action filer in 1879,Subsequently bought by J.P. Clabrough in 1881/2 who protected the patent in U.S.A,as no.252703 in 1882.
Horsley abandoned the action pretty quickly after a number of catastrophic failures with high profile customers!!!!
Hth.

Much more detail is given in the book ,which is an excellent reference on Horsley guns but also gives an insight to the workings of the trade .
Thank you sir: From an internet post, a history of Clabrough:
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=245239

Also in 1882, J P Clabrough Brothers obtained the US manufacturing rights to a hammerless thumb-cocking action (UK patent 2816/1879 Richard Ellis & Henry Scott, USA patent 252703/1882 Henry Scott assigned to J P Clabrough) but it too was unsuccessful. However, the firm also obtained a license to manufacture for sale in the USA the John Thomas Rogers and John Rogers patent sidelock barrel cocking mechanism (No. 397/1881). This mechanism became the most popular sidelock cocking mechanism.

By 1892 the trade with America was declining for British makers, in part because of the McKinley Tariff. But also because of the stiff competition from Belgium where the labor rate was lower and industrialization of the gun industry was in full swing
.


The question, as always, is who paid for the action patent use? Where are the records? I'll assume based on this educated reply that this Oaks & Co. shotgun made by E.M. Reilly was made in the early-mid 1880's...not the late 1880's I'd assumed it to be. Still...it's a fine looking gun with a modern feel and top lever.

I've researched numerous Reilly patent payments to Purdey - these records are literally under lock and key protected by the family apparently. I don't understand the legal problems but others do. So in trying to understand whether Reilly payed royalties for guns he produced, I'm pretty much down to Henry patent rifle barrels, a number of which are recorded on Reillys per above. I'll be researching where this info might reside.

The search continues. Again thanks.
There is an interesting sidelock 12ga SxS Reilly shotgun that just appeared on Guntrader.uk...(which references this website) SN 32658:
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/r...200227180805801
"There is a web site dedicated to E.M.Reilly guns and I have managed to find out this gun was made in 1895."

Why the screws on the fences?



For more see this line:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=566282#Post566282
================================================================================
8578 x 2


Holt's at their March 2020 sale advertises this Reilly 6 bore single muzzle loader fowling piece for sale, SN 8578 with "Reilly, New Oxford St., London" on the rib:
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...046&image=5


There's a problem. A Reilly SN 8578 already exists in my records from a Swedish auction site; It has an original case with very interesting original trade-label, "JC Reilly, New Oxford St., Removed from Holborn." I have it listed as one of the earliest guns made by Reilly after their move in late March 1847 to New Oxford St.
http://www.probusauktioner.se/auktion/au...November%202014



I've written to Holts asking them to examine their SN again. From blowing up the image of the tang, it looks like the Holts gun is indeed 8578.


Reilly "3"'s and "5"'s were very similar. Terry Buffum had repeated problems with this in his serial numbered Reillys: example below listed as "20625," when it's in fact "20623" validated by the numbers on the action face and barrels:


Which makes me wonder if the Swedish sold SxS were actually 8378..making it the first gun made after their move to New Oxford St....(And this would make the label fit better with the chronology). Strange..but for a historian important. (Holt's is not accepting on-line queries for some reason - I've had two returned - I think Holt's is fed up with my queries).

I've written to the Swedish auction. They have not responded.

And if anyone follows the Reilly history and serial number chronology closely, the above appearance of two Reilly SN 8578's made me review records I've had some doubts about for some time. I've had to make changes. SN 3329 and SN 3392 tuned out to be identical guns. The correct number is 3329, which is now the last main-line SN'd gun from 316 High Holborn.

This changed the SN order and number of guns made per year a bit from 1839 to 1859 by a few dozen guns a year. But the change does have a certain advantage In that it makes the few existing late 1840's Reilly guns seem more chronologically logical.
-- (For instance, it moves JC 7000 series 7201 .577 single barrel rifle back to 1848, which can justify more easily the "removed from Holborn" still on the trade label. (It looks like JC was wedded to the High Holborn address...he never changed it in his voting registrations out at Bourn's End...a pretty conservative fellow it would seem - which might explain why he quit in a huff in September 1857 when EM was going full bore into center-break guns).
-- And if the Swedish "8578" turns out to be "8378"...it makes the "5000" figure jump from 3329 upon the move to New Oxford Street more logical.

This said, much of the early chronology circa 1827 to about 1857 is pretty speculative given the paucity of extant guns. The chart I made is logical...but subject to change. (and even so...it will still get you close to the date your gun was serial numbered).
Doing some surfing tonight (found three more serial numbered Reilly's)...I ran across this Reilly U-L. Take a look at the hammers.
https://waffen-beste.de/Flinten/flinten.html

HDF E. M. Reilly & Co. London super Erhaltungszustand mit allem Zubehör sogar Schlüssel für Lederkoffer Kal. 12/70 engl. Nitrobeschuss Damstläufe innen blank. Verschluss Dicht.


HDF E. M. Reilly & Co. London super condition with all accessories even keys for leather case cal. 12/70 engl. Nitro Proof on the barrel flats? (" innen blank")? (welcome better translation). Closure tight.




No SN.....unclear label looks to be the E.M. Reilly & Co., gun manufacturers label used from August 1860 to the opening of rue Scribe in February 1868. This is obviously an early center-fire (probably originally a pin-fire?). The earliest Reilly C-F shotgun I've found is 14115 I've dated to 1866 - about the time of the first true c-f shotgun shell introduction. The hammers look a lot like those on 12 bore's 14983, the first extant Reilly with rue Scribe on the rib.

So without more information, I'd put it into the time period late 1866 - Feb 1868.
Strange things do happen. I was contacted by a gentleman in UK who has just joined this board "Papeman." He owns Reilly SN 26584, a BLNE in excellent condition (A&D use # 8072):




As chance would have it, in December 2015 I bought a case from a lady in UK who advertised it on eBay. It has an original Reilly label in it, one of the "outliers" which has been discussed before. On the label is hand written "26584" and "1886." Pretty amazing that the case is on this side of the Atlantic and the gun that belonged in it is still in UK. They lady who sold it to me said her husband got it out of a recycling location in Dorset.




My chart dates 26584 to around October 1884. I speculate it was numbered when ordered and not picked up until 1886.

After some very cursory reflections, decided the case belonged with the gun. Sent it back to UK to reunite it with the original. Here's the picture. It was worth it.
Originally Posted By: Argo44
Doing some surfing tonight (found three more serial numbered Reilly's)...I ran across this Reilly U-L. Take a look at the hammers.
...

HDF E. M. Reilly & Co. London super Erhaltungszustand mit allem Zubehör sogar Schlüssel für Lederkoffer Kal. 12/70 engl. Nitrobeschuss Damstläufe innen blank. Verschluss Dicht.

HDF E. M. Reilly & Co. London super condition with all accessories even keys for leather case cal. 12/70 engl. Nitro Proof on the barrel flats? (" innen blank")? (welcome better translation). Closure tight.
….
So without more information, I'd put it into the time period late 1866 - Feb 1868.


"Nitrobeschuss Damstläufe innen blank. Verschluss Dicht."
Nitro proof [;] Damascus barrels[,] bores bright. Lockup tight.

Sometimes in German ads you'll see bores referred to as "spiegelblank", which translates as "mirror bright".
Interesting, I see Papeman's Reilly has A&D Patent use #8702 and a build date of 1884.

I have a Warrilow box lock I had restored, I had always thought it was from the 1890's. It's A&D # is 7221 so I had better rethink that.

The first one was a WR in May of 1875....
Bob, take a look at the two lines I posted on Patent use numbers. I was warned by very knowledgeable posters that they are not chronological and cannot be relied on for dating guns.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubb...8253#Post568253
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubb...8132#Post568132

The patent was taken out 15 Sep 1875 and would have expired 15 Sep 1889. I doubt that after that date there will be patent use numbers (implying payment of royalties). So your gun is certainly pre - Sep 1889.

I compiled dated guns, built graphs of the patent use numbers... Absolutely confusing. Don't change the date on your gun to earlier than Sep 89....unless you can change the date on your gun to earlier. I can go into this now for hours - it'll drive you crazy. As for Reilly's and the patent use numbers on them that were published , see the list on p.44...I've put them all in brown.

Here's an example....these are Reillys from 1889 with recorded AD boxlock use numbers:
30363 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. Top lever, Anson & Deely patent use #6250. #1 of pair.
303xx? - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London. 12ga, Shotgun SxS. BLE. Top lever. Anson & Deeley patent use #6265; A&D pat A&D ejector pat use #427 #2 of pair. (SN not mentioned - Norway gun)
30768 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford St., London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE A&D patent use #8245 (PAY’s gun)
Upcoming Cowan's auction. -
https://www.cowanauctions.com/lot/english-schuetzen-percussion-target-rifle-by-e-m-reilly-4015848
English Schuetzen Percussion Target Rifle by E.M. Reilly
50 caliber, 33.25" barrel, no S/N. Damascus barrel with schuetzen-style stock finely checkered at forend and wrist. Blade front sight with iron ramrod pipes with entry pipe leading to reinforced forend. Classic schuetzen type triggerguard with set trigger. Forend tapped for palm rest. Top of barrel marked "E. M. REILLY 502 NE OXFORD ST. E315 OXFORD ST. LONDON." Lockplate marked "REILLY/LONDON" and engraved with classic broad scrolls.

This is the first Schuetzen Reilly that either Terry Buffum or I have ever seen. Analysis: The address on the rib is "E.M. Reilly 502 Ne (sic: "w" is missing) Oxford St. & 315 Oxford St., London". No Serial number has yet been identified (I've asked Cowan's - they confirm no SN). Engraving of the address is crude with misspelling. There is no "& Co." on the Rib or lock plate. Thus, it should have been retailed between August 1858 (opening of 315 Oxford St.) and March 1859 when "E.M. Reilly & Co.," first appeared. Without a serial number, I highly doubt Reilly made it. Belgian work? The "London-twist" Damascus has been seen before Reilly barrels.

I will mention that I'm not very happy with the very curt reply received from Cowan's. It was unprofessional imho and sort of left the feeling there was something to cover up. (The "history" they attached to the ad... while relying to some extent on this site....was not good).

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
================================================================================
13132 - Terry's Patent gun - dated per chart late 1863


Here is another military style breech loader made by E.M. Really - it's a SxS 40 bore ( .500 caliber) "William Terry's Patent" gun Reilly SN 13132 (late 1863 on the date chart) SxS carbine. Reilly advertised these and there is an article reposted below about an Anglican bishop in Sarawak who killed a boat load of Pirates with a Reilly Terry-Patent SxS gun.

William Terry was a Birmingham gun maker who granted a patent in April 1856; the carbine was issued to the 18th Hussars and other British cavalry regiments in 1859, was used by Australia and New Zealand militia and by the Confederates in the War Between the States.
-- Note Birmingham proof marks, first I've seen for a serial numbered Reilly gun

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25425/lot/324/
A RARE 40-BORE (.500) PERCUSSION TERRY'S PATENT BREECH-LOADING D.B. SPORTING RIFLE
BY E.M. REILLY & CO., NEW OXFORD ST.T., LONDON, NO. 13132, CIRCA 1860
With browned twist sighted barrels each rifled with five grooves, signed in full along the rib and engraved 'Terry's Patent 40 Bore', folding leaf back-sights from '100' to '250' yards, each leaf with central platinum line, border engraved case-hardened breeches decorated with foliate scrollwork, case-hardened bolts, signed detented border engraved flat locks and rounded hammers en suite, the first each with handle hinged against an adjustable blued spring (one screw head replaced), highly figured half-stock (butt with old marks on one side) with chequered grip and fore-end, the latter with dark horn cap, border engraved blued steel mounts comprising russet butt-plate, and trigger-guard with chequered spur, trigger-plate with shaped finial engraved with a scallop shell, vacant silver escutcheon, and much original finish, Birmingham proof marks
70.3 cm. barrels



Here is an 1859 description of the Terry Patent Carbine:
https://books.google.com/books?id=3jBJAA...der&f=false

Here is the above mentioned description of use of the gun in Sarawak by an Anglican Bishop - which cause "outrage" amongst the politically correct in London at the time. The bishop was using a SxS version of the carbine. London didn't understand the problem with pirates that "Rajah Brooks" faced in Sarawak. It was easy to damn while drinking tea on Bond Street....not when you're having your villages ravaged by the pirates. They were lucky they weren't hung...only shot.

Rajah Brooks, the white rajah, (Rajah Muda is son of the White Rajah) and his family ruled Sarawak up to 1960. An utterly amazing story.



If there is any doubt about what jerks and hand-wringers were in the London Press...here is the Wikipedia description of the battle. This is November 1862....sort of seems like 2020.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Mukah

The Battle off Mukah was a naval engagement fought in 1862 between the navy of Sarawak and pirates. After the kidnapping of Sarawakian citizens some time before, their navy dispatched two small warships which encountered the pirates off Mukah on the northern coast of Borneo. In an unusual action, the Rajah Muda, Captain John Brooke, then the heir apparent to be White Rajah of Sarawak, led his force in the defeat of six pirate ships and the rescue of captured civilians.[2]

The pirates who participated in the battle were Illanuns of the Moro pirates from the southern Philippines.[3] They had raided several coastal settlements in 1862 and the years preceding so many men and women were being held prisoner or worked as galley slaves on board the pirates' prahus.[4] A prahu was a type of large primitive sailing vessel with about a ten-foot beam and usually over forty feet long, which could also be propelled by oars. Armed with three brass swivel guns each, they were roofed by a bamboo cover to protect the ammunition and provisions from rain and to provide a platform to fight from. Sulu pirates sheltered in bays along the coast during the trading season to prey on merchant shipping passing from places like Singapore, Penang, or China back to the Americas or Europe. In response to the affair, Captain Brooke headed down the coast from the town of Sarawak, in November 1862 to build a fort at Bintulu and release the captives at Mukah. He had with him his eighty-foot screw-steamer named Rainbow, armed with two 9-pounder cannons, one 12-pounder and one 4-pounder, the latter two were meant to be offloaded for use at the fort. There was also a gunboat named Jolly Bachelor, under the command of a Captain Hewat, and armed with two brass 6-pounder guns and two small swivels.[5]

While in transit the captain was informed that six prahus were anchored off the port of Mukah, and their crews were raiding the town. So when he arrived at Bintulu the labourers were put ashore to construct the fort and ten Sarawakian soldiers joined the Rainbow's small crew to strengthen it before the coming battle. The Sulus themselves were heavily armed with muskets, pistols, swords, knives, spears so the men of the Sarawakian vessels placed mattresses and other improvised bulwarks on the upper decks to protect their legs from "ugly hits" according to Bishop Francis Thomas McDougall of Labuan, who was present during the battle on board the Rainbow. In all there were eight Europeans involved and a few dozen Sarawakian soldiers and sailors.[6]

The two steamers began their journey down the coast again, shortly finding three of the prahus. The water was shallow and the Rainbow had the Jolly Bachelor in tow; her captain, the Rajah Muda, intended to release the smaller ship as soon as they were in a good firing position. Brooke confirmed with his Sarawakian crew the prahus were pirate. As soon as the Sulus realised they were under attack they began killing the captives while fleeing to dangerous waters. Father McDougall later described the engagement: "So we took to our stations, loaded our guns, and prepared for action. The leading boat had already gained on the other two and was going nearly as fast as the steamer herself. I never saw fellows pull so. We put on all steam, cast off the Jolly, and tried to get in between her and the point, but she beat us, and passed inside of us into shallow water, where we could not follow. Then she opened her fire upon us, which we returned with interest. She, like the others, had no heavy guns, but they all carried three long brass swivels, called lelahs, and plenty of rifles and muskets." The bishop went on to say that one of the captured pirates revealed to him that each of their swivels took seven men to lift and there were forty rifles and muskets aboard each boat, or more.[7]

Captain Brooke's plan, after casting off the Jolly Bachelor, would be to ram the prahus while keeping them engaged so as to prevent the pirates from boarding and overwhelming the Sarawakians. McDougall wrote; "Our plan of action was to silence the brass guns with our rifles, to shake them at their oars with grape and round shot, until we could run into them without their being strong enough to board us. The steamer was kept dodging about within range until the time came to run in; then we got into a good position to put on all steam and given them the stem, which was always admirably and coolly done by Captain Hewat whenever the order was given by the Rajah Mudah." After the first prahu got away the attention was turned to the second boat which was sailing for the shore and when the Rainbow was 200 yards away the Sulus opened fire with all of their guns. For the next few minutes Brooke chased the prahu at full speed before running right over it and sinking her. The Sarawakians called out to the survivors to hang onto the wreckage and wait for rescue, they then went after the third prahu but the Rainbow ran aground in less than two fathoms of water.[8]

The guns were still operable so Brooke had his men return the pirates' fire. No hits were made but near hits forced the pirates to leave their wounded and abandon ship without fighting. Brooke then decided on rescuing the survivors though most of the Sulus took their weapons into the water and continued to fight. The captain also had his men refloat the steamer which was done somewhat easily. Few pirates were recovered according to McDougall and when they saved all that could be, the Rainbow and the Jolly Bachelor continued on slowly down the coast. During this time one of the pirates said that there were three more prahus nearby which were waiting for the three already engaged to rejoin them. After an hour the weather was very calm and a lookout at the masthead spotted the three enemy ships to the starboard, lining up to bear their bow guns on the approaching steamers. However, when the wind picked up again the pirates changed their tactics and hoisted sail to move their ships into broadside position. As the Sarawakians neared the pirates they opened up with their swivels but Brooke waited until his ships were 250 yards away before he gave his men the order to return the fire.[9]

McDougall reported that the final three prahus did not attempt to escape like the first three had and they fought with determination even after all of the Sarawakian guns were brought to bear on them. One of the prahus was run over just as the second and split in two while the largest and final vessel was destroyed by gunfire and sank with a valuable cargo of gold and jewels. McDougall later said: "The poor captives, who were all made fast below as we came up to engage them, were doubtless glad when our stem opened the sides of their ships, and thus let them out of prison. Few, comparatively, were drowned, being mostly all good swimmers. All those who were not lashed to the vessels, or killed by the Illanuns, escaped. Our decks were soon covered with those we picked up, men of every race and nation in the Archipelago, who had been captured by the pirates in their cruise, which had already lasted seven months." McDougall also confirmed the loss of at least one dead and two wounded while several of the pirates were killed or wounded, most having been hit by cannon and rifle fire. In all at least 100 Sulus became casualties while many others escaped to the shore and retreated into the jungle.[10]

Of the rescued most were from Singapore, including the women and children, though there were Chinese slaves and two British subjects as well. They described to the bishop the ways in which they had been tortured by the pirates. One way was that the Illanuns had them drink salt water only, mixing four parts of salt for every three parts of fresh water. They would also rub cayenne pepper into the eyes of their slaves whenever they became too tired to continue rowing. The prisoners could not escape because if they had a chance to jump over the side, the Sulus had a three barbed spear ready and if struck by one the victim could "no longer swim nor run" and would either drown or be retaken. McDougall helped the wounded after they started to come aboard and he described one Singapore Bugis woman as nearly starved to death. Father McDougall claimed he never missed one shot out of the eighty rounds he fired with his rifle. He also said that by the end of the battle, all of their ammunition for the 9-pounders was gone and there were only a few caps and cartridges remaining for the small arms.[11]

The 12-pounder was also knocked out of action early in the engagement and apparently could not be repaired. The bishop said that had another prahu been found, they would have had a difficult time in repulsing or destroying it. When the fighting was over both of Brooke's ships were damaged in some way so he set a course for home and successfully delivered the captives to safety without further opposition from the Sulus.[2][12]
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35422, 35423 - a pair found (1904 per chart)


A few years ago Stonehengearms advertised this rather plain Jane Reilly 12 ga. SxS BLE. It was number 2 of a pair, SN 35423. It is the first extant Reilly so far found with 295 Oxford Street address on the rib.

http://stonehengearms.co.uk/shotguns/
E.M. REILLY LONDON BOX LOCK EJECTOR
Number 2 of a pair this boxlock ejector has 30" barrels, 2 1/2" chambers and is nitro proofed.The bores are free from pitting and are choked at 1/2 and 3/4. the reach is 15 1/8". Although there is little engraving or embellishment on this gun, it is a gun of good quality. The game rib is engraved with " E.M. Reilly & Co" and the address of 295 Oxford Street in London. This was the address used from 1904 to 1911. There is a vacant escutcheon on the underside of the straight hand stock. The serial number is 35423 if anyone out there has or know of the matching gun to make a pair.


Browsing through Scotarms auctions past catalogs today, came across the action, stock and forearm of 35422....undoubtedly the number 1 of the above mentioned gun. (no photos).

http://www.scotarms.co.uk/catalogues/701.htm
Lot No. 133 The action stock and forend of a 12 bore double barrelled boxlock ejector shotgun by E.M.Reilly & Co. Serial No.35422. Grade 3 plus. FAA Category: RFD

This is the third pair put together since this database was created.
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10811 - New 1st gun from 315 Oxford Street;


If any one is tracking the Reilly history...there have been a lot of subtle changes since Diggory Hadoke published it last summer on "Vintage Gun Journal." The history and the list of extant guns continues to change...but less radically than at the beginning.

For the latest, I went back and looked at some of the guns from the 1850's...
-- 10811 - a Prince patent breech loader. Per the chart it should have been serial numbered in Fall 1858.
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/print_sale.aspx?saleid=7288
But on the barrel it has two interesting engravings.
. . . . . - "Reilly & Co."
. . . . . - "Oxford Street."

315 aka "Oxford Street" aka "The Manufactory" or "The Amoury House" wasn't opened until January 1859. "Reilly & Co." appeared in some books and advertisements in early 1859....to be superseded by "E.M. Reilly & Co" in October 1859. So I speculate that the gun was ordered in Fall 1858, and completed in January-February 1859....I speculate that the last engraving on the gun was the name and address on the barrel/rib....Bushveld has posted a comment which seems to cement this conclusion...e.g.
-- bespoke guns were serial numbered when ordered.
-- Barrels and other patent parts were given patent use numbers when picked up or were sold in a block.
-- The maker name/address on the rib were the last bit engraved before delivery along with the previously SN on the action and Tang.
**Note: No photo from Christies" for this gun....and thus no confirmation.
And yet, I've decided (on the word of Christies') that this is the earliest 315 gun serial numbered by Reilly. Yes there are questions. I'll be looking to answer them.

Edit: I've decided to trust Christies and call this the earliest gun built at 315 Oxford Street. History has been changed.

Also, taking another look at 11419 (Early 1860)...there are definitely two addresses "315 & 502 Oxford Street" on the barrel (Dated per the chart in early 1860). This is now the first extant long gun with "315" on the gun (building occupied in Jan 1859) - This is definitely the first gun with "315" on the rib....but 10811 has "Oxford Street"...so...for now 2nd place.
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Reevaluating the mid-1840's chronology. 8378 and 7201 now 1st guns from 502 New Oxford Street;
Significance of "Removed from Holborn"


In addition, looking at all the data, the trade labels, etc., I've had to conclude that the the JC Reilly "7000" series gun SN 7201 with the "removed from Holborn" address was indeed made in 1847 not 1849 and thus had to move it back.



That means that the 1st JC Reilly "7000' gun, SN 7023 was probably numbered in late 1845 or early 1846 (It still has 316 High Holborn on the rib).


I've also had to conclude that the Swedish SxS SN'd "8578" gun was indeed 8378 making it the earliest gun after the move to New Oxford Street. I've therefore changed the Extant Serial Number chart to reflect this...having to move around some serial number chronology by a few dozen guns a year (p.44)...and the serial number chart on the History (p.45). This fits with the label on 8378 which includes "Removed from Holborn." (It also makes a clean 5000 SN jump from the last extant High Holborn gun 3329 to 8378 very plausible. - and E.M brought discipline to his Dad's business from the looks of things.)
]


Given the few guns from this time period, it's still pretty hypothetical; and yet, amazingly there are 9 existing guns from 1846-1849 with maker inscriptions and trade labels which enables a better than usual chart from this time period. I was never quite comfortable with the old chart...I changed a few guns per year to make everything fit...but the new chart of 1840's serial numbers seems much more logical now. It's not a big deal - just about all those guns from that era were shot out many years ago - but it was something to correct. If other guns appear, this may change. I'll change the history to reflect this tomorrow.

Here is why I think the "Removed from Holborn" dates a gun from late March 1847 to November 1847. Reilly advertisements in London newspapers used that phrase from early April to at least November 1847 after their March 23 moved from High Holborn to 502 New Oxford Street. By December 1847 the phrase was no longer found on their advertisements.

1. April 3, 1847 from "Illustrated London News"
2. October 30, 1847, from "London Daily News"


December 21, 1847 "Illustrated London News"


Edit: History has been modified to reflect the above. I feel much better about the accuracy of the chart over the period of the move from 316 High Holborn to 508 New Oxford street now.
Based on the above and a lot of other input. I've added the last paragraph to the "Caveats" at the end of the Reilly history on p.45.

Caveats:
-- Reilly did not serial number guns he did not make.
-- When 001 was numbered or if there were a 001 is unknown; 1825 was chosen as a start date because he may have joined the London Proof House at that time (not confirmed). In addition Reilly is NOT on a list of London gunmakers published in 1825. The earliest Reilly advertisements for guns alone so far found began in the London papers in 1827. The first existing gun is SN
162.
-- Reilly originally serial numbered pistols; that ended circa 1837.
-- The number of guns numbered per year are estimates based on date markers - the addresses on the ribs/barrels based on specific events such as moves to new addresses or change in address numbers which are historically proven.. Obviously numbers actually made each year varied. The curve has been smoothed as much as possible to eliminate wild swings and verified by
sanity checks."
-- There is a huge uptick in numbers in 1881-82. Reilly apparently made the business decision to stock guns and sell ready-made/off-the-rack. If so he may have numbered them when sold, accounting for some discrepancies. His bespoke guns were probably numbered when ordered per general London practice
-- Patent numbers on guns can help date a gun;
. . . . . . . - but many guns were modified/up-graded; one Reilly (SN 10354) built in 1857 was originally a muzzle loader turned into a breech loader in 1895.
. . . . . . . - And patent use numbers were rarely chronological. Manufacturers bought blocs of numbers in some cases.
. . . . . . . - In addition the relationship of patent use numbers to gun Serial Number cannot be ascertained so easily. For instance Henry patent rifling would be stamped on tubes - but when these were selected in relationship to when the serial number for the gun was entered on the books is not clear.
. . . . . . . - So patent numbers can be sanity checks but no proof of date of manufacture.

-- Reilly prided himself on delivering bespoke guns in 3-6 months vice the 2-3 years of other makers. The guns would have been serial-numbered upon order. However, the SN chronology is dated based on rib/barrel-addresses from 15 or so key date-marker guns. These addresses would have been engraved and the barrels blacked/browned shortly before delivery. Thus serial numbers may precede the rib-addresses by several months. For example, 10811 could have been ordered in Fall 1858 and serial numbered at that time on the books but not delivered until 1859 (which explains why it has "315" on the barrel.)
==================================================================================
Change - First Reilly Prince Patent - 10782


Looking further at the Reilly database, it turned out that Prince Patent Reilly-made breech loader "10872" with "Reilly, New Oxford Street, London on the barrel, in fact is 10782 (numbered late summer 1858). It was misadvertised by the auction house. It was numbered a month before 10811 making the maker's name "Reilly" rather than the "Reilly & Co." on 10811 a chronological fit: It is now the first extant Reilly Prince patent.



Originally Posted By: Argo44
There is an interesting sidelock 12ga SxS Reilly shotgun that just appeared on Guntrader.uk...(which references this website) SN 32658:
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/r...200227180805801
"There is a web site dedicated to E.M.Reilly guns and I have managed to find out this gun was made in 1895."

Why the screws on the fences?

The screws retain a cover plate under which the forward extension of the toplever which forms the top bolt sits.Just seen the same setup on another (boxlock) gun.



For more see this line:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=566282#Post566282
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1851-81 UK Census Records on number of employees - applied to several London Gun Makers including Reilly, Greener, Purdey, Lang:
Reilly was by far the largest company in 1881 - see conclusions


I’ve been going through the London 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881 (March 31) census researching two things:
. . . .Question 1). The census for those years asked questions of Masters about the number of employees (men, hands) they had.
. . . .Question 2). I have the name of Reilly’s foreman in 1861 John Baker, who took out a patent on a shotgun shell crimper for Reilly. I wanted to identify him from the 1861 census to see how he listed his occupation….to use as a tempplate to search for others involved in the gun trade.

Re Question 1:

The methodology of the UK census question might best be explained here:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01615440.2019.1707140
“The British business census of entrepreneurs and firm-size, 1851–1881: New data for economic and business historians”

These two books also are interesting general looks at the topic:
-- AN ECONOMIC HISTORY OF LONDON 1800-1914
https://books.google.com/books?id=WNKAAg...851&f=false
-- THE AGE OF ENTREPRENEURSHIP; BUSINESS PROPRIETERS, SELF-EMPLOYMENT AND CORPORATIONS SINCE 1851
https://books.google.com/books?id=Q5qfDw...851&f=false

In addition, according to the book London; A Social History, per the 1851 census out of 24,356 employers only 7 London firms employeed over 350 men and only 80 employed over 100. . So the data has to be available, and might even list the firms in order of their size. This data has been used in a number of studies on entrepreneurship in UK. It, however, was widely recognized as being incomplete.

In addition, someone somewhere also had detailed info on the trade at the time.

-- Per Wikipedia: “The number of firms in Birmingham's gun industry was 125 in 1815, 455 in 1829 (two-thirds of these in the Gun Quarter), and by 1868 there were 578 gun firms in the city. The trade employed 2,867 people in 1851, out of a total of 7,731 in the whole of England and Wales.. (The statistics had to come from the 1851 census....where can one find them?)

-- And per this article on the Birmingham gun trade, there are very detailed statistics available somewhere. Goodman - "On the Process of the Small Arms Manufacture"
https://books.google.com/books?id=SUwuAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA497&lpg=PA497&dq=the+list+of+workmen+employed+estimates+the+total+number+at+7,340&source=bl&ots=WDuTRfe2vO&sig=ACfU3U3jNVTfTnhHS9_e7DPwxVEneWKU-A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwih9o_7r9npAhXjlXIEHTe_CAsQ6AEwAHoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20list%20of%20workmen%20employed%20estimates%20the%20total%20number%20at%207%2C340&f=false


Results for question 1: I cannot find a gunmaker in London who listed the number of persons he employed in 1851 and 1861. However here are examples from 1871 and 1881:
-- 1871 Purdey employed 58 men
-- 1881 E.M. Reilly reported to the census that he employed 300 men;
-- 1881 WW Greener said he employed 140 men:

1) Reilly entries:
Edward Michael Reilly 1861 and 1881 Census entries:

Joseph Charles Reilly 1841 Census entry - note that Edward Michael was also identified as "Gun Maker."


2) Purdey entries: Here are the three entries for James Purdey (Elder – retired in 1858, and Younger) for the 1851, 1861, and 1871 census. There is not a word about the number of people they employed in 1851 and 61. In 1871, Purdey said he employed 58 persons - 1/5th the number of Reilly in 1881. (Purdey elder identified his occupation as "Gun Maker & Seller" in 1851).


3) Lang entries: 1851, 1861 entries for Joseph Lang, Gun Maker - nothing about employees.


4) John Blissett: 1851 entry for John Blissett (who listed his occupation as “Whitesmith”).


5). WW Greener, Gun Maker, 1881 census entry - employed 140 men:


CONCLUSION: From the above, Reilly employed 5 times as many men as Purdey in 1881 and more than twice as many as WW Greener. Per the above article on Birmingham gun quarter in 1868, however, these numbers must have fluctuated regularly as demand increased/decreased.

I'm still having problems searching these census databases. I know that TRW999 did research on Reilly and used the census records. Any tips on how to use the data would be appreciated and also where might the data on entrepreneurs in London on these census dates be found?
Question 2): As for "John Baker" I looked at 450 odd John Baker's in the 1861 London census. I limited myself to the ones who lived in Middlesex, since the average commute of a Londoner at the time was 1.2 miles per the above books. I was unable to identify a John Baker - gun maker. There were carpenters, silk-weavers, foremen, coach painters, bricklayers, hatters, laborers, bill posters, police, cabinet makers, shoemakers, porters, table makers, an undertaker, a "reader to soldiers", plasterer, ...etc.

There was one "John Baker", a widower who identified himself as "Benchman." That would be the only possibility for the John Baker who patented the shell crimper for Reilly:



There also is this "John Baker" who was an "engineer":


Edit: There is this fellow Frederick J. Baker, Gun Maker from the 1861 census....I haven't paid to get access to it and ancestry.com ism't turning up everything - not even close. I may join that UK census site.



Frederick J. Baker, might be this fellow from the 1871 electoral rolls. I need to get better with this census stuff:


Alexandra Road is across the Thames and a good 5 miles from 315 Oxford Street. - long commute in 1861.

Given Reilly`s claimed workforce figures,do you have an insight into what his main product line was at this time ?Was he largely making military ordnance ? Here in the UK I would not say there are a great number of sporting guns of that period made by Reilly compared to Purdey and the other topline London makers/retailers extant.
Imperdix, The list of extant Reilly's is on p.44. Reilly serial numbered abut 33,000 guns from c1825/7 to 1912. There are about 375 listed on p.44 with another 50 or so for which the auction houses did not publish the serial number. About 1.4% of his serial numbered output. But at least one British writer wrote that Reilly also made guns for the trade - for other makers in London.

In 1880 Reilly made about 650 serial numbered guns per the p.44 chart. Purdey and Holland&Holland combined made about 490 (I've temporarily lost my reference). By 1882...Reilly was making over 1,000 serial numbered guns a year double the number of Purdey and H&H together.

I speculate that Purdey and H&H guns survived because of who bought them - well-to-do gentlemen and royalty. Reilly made inexpensive but quality guns and delivered them rapidly and his clientele were the mid-level military officer, etc. They probably just shot those guns to death they way they were supposed to.

Scroll through that list of extant guns which are now dated pretty well. It's a walk in UK gun history..from muzzle loaders, the beginning of center-break guns, Enfield rifle-muskets (the dominate surviving gun during the War Between the States), the first military breech loaders - Prince, Terry's Patent, Green, Snider, Complain, Martini-Henry actions, etc... the SxS break action guns, pin fires, advancing to center-fire, a lot of SxS big-bore rifles, on to pigeon guns, etc. And he made a ton of guns for the Yoemanry militia and gun clubs.

I'm now on the track of an alleged photo taken inside the Reilly workshop on Oxford Street from the mid-1870's. Have to wait for Library of Congress to reopen.
Finding answers is always difficult ,lots of information is out there,the difficulty is finding it ,as it`s often well out of easy view in my experience! Good luck with your search.
Thanks for your encouragement, sir, and for that of a dozen other posters here. It's funny how a curiosity can turn into a question, which can become a query - "What the heck does that mean?!!," and transform into a quest. At its simplest, at least these guns have been dated. It's small-scale research but it is UK gun-history.
Kirby Hoyt just listed Reilly SN 13224 on Guns International. I sent him a link to this DB and analysis:


Kirby, my name is Gene Williams, McLean VA. I've written a new history of the Reilly firm published in two parts last Aug, Sep in Diggory Haddoke's on-line magazine Vintagegunjournal. The research into Reilly continues and update can be read here: ://doublegunshop/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436538&page=44

I've compiled a chart dating Reilly's by Serial Number which can be read on the above line. 13224 would have been dated in early 1864. Reilly at the time had two workshops at 502 New Oxford St. and 315 Oxford St. Since the gun is sleeved, we don't know which shop made it. But the case is not original to the gun. 315 Oxford St. changed to 277 Oxford St. in November 1881.

I also believe the gun was originally a pin fire and has been converted to center-fire. The earliest Reilly made center break, original center-fire shotgun I've found is SN 14115 dated on my chart to 1866, about the time the first practical center-fire shotgun cartridges were patented. Anyway, beautiful gun..


Got this back from him.

Thank you so much for your help with this Reilly. I will pass the history along to the new owner as it was sold yesterday within an hour of its listing. I have probably had between 100 and 200 Reilly’s over the thirty some years I have been selling English doubles.

I believe we have some coming soon in our next shipment from the UK. Do you have a serial number chart you would share so we can date them? Buyers often want to know when their gun was made so it is wonderful when we can provide the approximate date in the listing.

Again, thank you for sharing your knowledge with us,

All the very best

Kirby


Kirby, I'm attaching the latest version of the "New History of Reilly" from the "Doublegunshop" Reilly line. At the bottom of the history, is the current serial number dating chart with footnotes. Hope this will help. You're welcome to share it with your customers.

I do plan to change the footnote again shortly....I got a little carried away with gun serial numbers and downplayed the March 23, 1847 move from 316 High Holborn to 502 New Oxford Street - which is the marker date.

The Reilly line is here - it caused some uproar because for 50 years the "establishment" has said that Reilly was a retailer only. I think I've conclusively proven that they were one of the largest gun making companies in London from 1827 to 1900 when they began to decline - Bankrupt in 1912:


Gene,

Thank you so much. This is fantastic!

We will make great use of this information and am pleased we can share it.

If we can ever do anything for you just let me know

All the very best

Kirby


Revolutionary idea: If you have a history of an obscure gun maker and can date the guns...marketing gets interesting. Perhaps some others could use the data here. It's free. Send me an email and I'll send you the document on the History and Serial Number chart....and the Case/Trade label dating information...and if needed the Extant SN database. smile

Or heck, just super-copy it. NP - - better yet, we'll make a trade - give me your database on serial numbered Reilly's you've sold over 40 years for the Reilly database and I'll give you the history for free. Hummm...wait....it's already free. smile

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Re-checking the dating of Reilly case/trade labels.


On p.44 of this line is a cheat-sheet chart of Reilly labels, dated, which can help date a gun when nothing else is available. I was looking to confirm a statement I made in the history - to wit, that Reilly labels for 16 (502) New Oxford Street did not change from its adoption in August 1860 to 1898, and the separate label for 315 (277) Oxford Street did not change from it appearance about 1875 to 1898 when 16 New Oxford Street was closed.

Turns out I was wrong. There was a slight change....you'll see different advertisements along the bottom of both labels after the company left 2 rue Scribe in late July 1885.

Here is 16 (502) New Oxford Street label with rue Scribe still occupied (the label had not changed since it was adopted in August 1860 except for addition of the 1867 Paris Universelle medals)....and the label after they left rue Scribe in late July 1885:



And here is 315 Oxford Street with rue Scribe, and 277 Oxford Street after rue Scribe was closed:



I then went back and checked the premise that rue de Faubourg, St. Honore, the address found on 4 case/trade labels, was open after the November 1881 change in the Oxford Street numbering system but before rue Scribe was closed in late July 1885. (There are numerous writings for years that claim rue de Faubourg was opened after rue Scribe was closed from all sorts of expert authors).

Here is the label from SN 22432 serial numbered in 1880 per my chart. The case label is for 16 New Oxford St. and mentions 277 Oxford St. and rue de Faubourg, St. Honore....so post November 1881.

The advertisements at the bottom of the label are slightly different from those on the standard 502 label (of course you wouldn't advertise Enfield Rifles in France) - but very similar to the post July 1885 16 Oxford St. label - (compare "self-ejector" rather than "ejector"). It certainly looks like the post 1885 16 New Oxford Street label as far as the advertisements go.

But, the reason that this label may be dated pre 1885 is simple: who was the owner of 22432? - George Sackville Sinclair Wemyss (born 1855, died 1882). Perhaps the advertisements on this label were a harbinger of what was to come in 1885? Or is this the just usual auction house hype which often has nothing to do with history?



This topic needs some more research with really befuddling information:
1) there are no British press advertisements for a Reilly branch in Paris after July 1885.
2) There are three Reilly guns with only "Paris" on their ribs after the last Reilly with rue Scribe.
3) the man who bought the above Reilly with the label died in 1882.
4) but the label advertisements for rue du Faubourg look very similar to post 1885 Reilly labels.
So French records will be key. Will advise.

Edit....these rue du Faubourg labels have the 1884 London exposition medals on them. The label is on SN 26880, dated to early 1885. This may or may not be important. There are earlier serial numbers from as early as 1879 which have that label.
===================================================================================================
Reilly's were not Freemen of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers.


At the suggestion of David Trevallion (Crossed Chisels) I contacted the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers in London, asking if either J.C. or E.M were ever actual members of the Company. A 1926 book stated this as fact. I doubted its accuracy. There were a lot of people involved in the gun trade who were not Freemen and there were members who were not involved in the gun trade. But it was a detail to tie up. Here is the response from Mr. Dereck Stimpson, the honorary archivist of the Company:

Dear Mr Williams,

Many thanks for your email and information. I will read your article with interest during the week.

I seemed to recall that neither Reilly entered the Gunmakers’ Company. I have now checked our records - the index and the Freedom (and Livery, just to be sure) pages for those dates (early 1820’s to 1870”s to be sure) and they are not there. The answer appears therefore confirmed - that they did did not become Freemen.

For your interest I own a pair of much used Reilly hammer ejectors nos. 30394 and 30395. They are described in Double Gun Journal Vol 19 Issue 3 Autumn 2008. There are a couple of typos in the article (one being - sides should read slides, describing the ejector mechanism) and the colour reproduction, usually good, is unfortunately rather dark. The address on the rib is Oxford St.

I also have a Reilly 28b hammer S/L serial no. 23898 - a lovely little gun with beautiful damascus barrels. All three fit me well!

Please let me know if I can assist in any other way.
with best wishes
Derek Stimpson


I've thanked Dereck for his help and will let David know. I've asked about those Reilly's he owns. I already had a 30394, a 12 bore sold by Christies in 1995 with no mention of a pair. I always suspect auction houses of not being (how to put it diplomatically) particularly fastidious about the accuracy of the information they put out about the guns they're selling - perhaps I'm paranoid and that was the dawn of the internet? If anyone has a copy of that DGJ article - Double Gun Journal Vol 19 Issue 3 Autumn 2008 - would much appreciate your forwarding the article....I just cannot stuff more books on another hobby into the house.

I will be changing the History shortly. At this point I would push the first Reilly made gun to 1827 when the first gun advertisements can be found in the London papers. For the moment I don't feel like changing the chronology though I ultimately will.

Thanks for forwarding it Stephen. From the article it's evident that Dereck's #1 is most likely the Christie's gun. I change the chronology description.
“ If anyone has a copy of that DGJ article - Double Gun Journal Vol 19 Issue 3 Autumn 2008 - would much appreciate your forwarding the article “

E-mail sent.
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Redoing the history/chronology - New start date for Reilly guns - changed from 1825 to Summer 1828


The fact that Reilly did not join the Worshipful Company of Gun Makers in 1825 (as was sort of alleged by a 1926 book) made me go back and look again at the first advertisements for Reilly guns;. Based on this, I've decided to move the start date for his actually making guns to summer 1828 based on following logic:

1. There were several ads for Reilly selling guns in 1828 and 1829 but no mention of him actually making his own guns (there are still newspapers from that period being copied and put on line so in a couple of years this might change again):

24 Aug 1828, "Bell's Life". - (read this carefully...it's coded)


14 Jun 1829, "Bell's Life" - (read this one carefully too).


2. The 1829 London Directory and London Post Office both still list him as "jeweler" (Sun Fire Company Insurance Documents show Joseph Charles Reilly as a Jeweller, silversmith and dealer in firearms July 1829):



3. The first advertisement indicating overtly he was specifically selling his own guns, legally proofed, is 18 July 1830, "Bell's Life":


4. The first advertisement where he identified himself as "Gun Maker" was May 1831 "New Sporting Magazine" (previously posted):


5. So, Originally I thought I'd hold him at his word and change the chronology and history to reflect summer 1830 as the date he began to make guns.

6. However, re-reading the 1828 advertisement, it seems clear he was making "unsanctioned" guns (which could be sanctioned by a "nominal authority" for "an exorbitant price"), and that these unsanctioned guns were quality guns. I.e., I think he was making them...but perhaps not submitting them for proof? The wording of the ad is subtle, almost code (psst, you want good gun...come eentoo zee alley...bargain)... The 1829 ad also makes clear that he was selling two types of guns, one group of guns that were his (that he was making?) and another group made by excellent makers (used guns). So....I'm going to put the start date for his making guns to Summer 1828.

This could change as more newspapers from that era come on-line - probably moving back to 1827-26 because you don't just start making guns and sell 50 in the first year. Oh wait, on second thought....Amazon, Walmart. Ł3 difference in a gun price in 1828 would be the equivilent of Ł350 today - but as a portion of income...it would be much much more than it appears. So, if you sold a good product that undercut the establishment price by 30% - voila...Walmart in 1828...the customers would come, even the well-to-do. Ł3 was a monthly income for some.

Note...In May 1902, 74 years and two generations later, H.H. (Bert) Reilly, to promote the company as it was struggling, added "Established 1835" to his advertisements (a lot of London establishments were doing this at that time). Bert Reilly obviously did not know the history of the company - we now know more than he did - which makes me wonder whether the company records had survived to his day - There were definitely records when E.M. died...here's an excerpt from his will (one guesses that this lets out any possibility that she took over the business):
"Also I give to my wife my household furniture, plate, linen, china, glass, picture books (other than trade books)...."

07 Jun 1902, "The Field":

The two charts, the chronology of extant guns on p.44 and the SN dating chart attached to the history on p.45 have been altered as has the history. The new list actually fits better than the old. It puts the first SN Reilly at 316 High Holborn, 1024, which would have been in Fall 1835..exactly in that time period...the previous chart had it in Spring...an impossibility. (of course given the paucity of guns from the period - it's all pretty much speculation - put at least it's educated speculation).

And of course the questions immediately arise:
-- Is the "nominal authority" the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers? (Perhaps why the Reilly's never bought their way to Freeman status?)
-- How much did it cost to proof a gun in London in 1828? (Must have been a lot)
-- Why did Reilly claim the proofing was by a "nominal authority?"
-- Was there a law in 1828 that London guns had to be proofed?
-- By 1830 in his ads, he clearly states he was building guns according to the "new proof laws." What were these?
Turn a stone over, more questions.
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Redoing the history/chronology - New date for closing 16 New Oxford Street - from "1898" to first week of May 1897


In addition, when I first started using the UK national newspaper database in 2017 there was almost nothing about Reilly from 1888 - 1912. I was unable to verify that Reilly actually closed 16 New Oxford Street in 1898 as numerous experts had claimed. However, after a two year hiatus I paid for a month subscription again and got back into the database to check a few things. Millions pages have been added and there were a lot of advertisements for Reilly throughout the 1890's and some ads right up to Bankruptcy. It was evident that 16 New Oxford St. was not mentioned in any ad in 1898.

Researching 1897 advertisements...16 New Oxford street is mentioned in a 01 May 1897 ad but not in an 08 May 1897 ad. So he closed the workshop the first week of May 1897 a full year earlier than previously reckoned. This was verified by looking at numerous advertisements leading up to May 1897 and subsequently. This was much like the research that showed rue Scribe closed in 1885, not 1886. I will have to change the history and chronology to reflect this...it'll take some time: (and it means that my hammer gun 12 bore, SN 34723, is now early 1897 vice late 1898....going to be interesting to squash the chronology and it'll show the Reilly decline more dramatically after the death of EM in July 1890)

. . . . . . .01 May 1897 "Sporting Gazette" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . 08 May 1897 "Sporting Gazette"


There are two national UK newspaper databases. The two apparently do not have all the same newspapers. This is the one I'm using. https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk
Caution: using this database to search key words is finicky...you can search what you think is logical and nothing comes up. Imagination then comes into play. Still...an amazing resource!!! Worth paying for..it you have a specific objective in mind.

Reilly disappears from the newspapers downloaded into the library of this database in late February 1903, still advertising as being at 277 Oxford Street, and doesn't reappear again in advertisements until May 1904, located at 295 Oxford Street. I assume this database will ultimately download more papers...but I may have to take a look at the second database to see what happened to 277 and 295. For the moment, the date of the move is "March 1903."

Modification of the date charts is complete. There is some logic to the new chart. It moves the gun Toby Barclay sold, 35079 back to late 1898. That gun still had pre-1896 proof marks on the barrel. But at least a case can be made that the gun sat on the rack for 2 years...rather than the 4 the old chart would have mandated.

By the way from the ad: 1897 - "English Damascus"??! Raimey will have a cow - what's the chance that a Damascus barrel was made in England in 1897? Almost 100% certain these would have been Ličge made barrels....proofed in England. Right?
And by the way, Sorry to be posting in the first person...it's not meant to be arrogance...I'm really talking to myself as I walk through thought processes. No historian can do work without making notes and these are sort of my notes. They will be synthesized later.

Again it's not meant to be arrogant...it's a work in progress. But at least if someone disagrees with some of the conclusions...we are working off the same sheet of music in subsequent discussions.
=============================================================================================
Reilly vs the establishment - 1828 version


Re Reilly possibly selling unproved guns, the question was answered with help from a another poster. It was illegal to sell unproved barrels after 1813. So Reilly in the 1828 advertisement must have been complaining about other gun-makers' high priced guns...a subtle hint that you could get an excellent gun from him without paying a fortune for a name. This was part of his business model from the beginning of the company...and he returned to this theme repeatedly - including the 1868 barbs thrown at Purdey.

(remember that horrible chest-thumping poem published after his triumph at the 1867 Paris Universelle? - see. p. 14: below extract:
A place-beyond all we in London know
To Messrs. E.M. Reilly & Co.
What other houses charge sixty-five pounds
For, and keep you four or five months (which astounds),…………8 (take that Purdey)
In waiting for; one exactly the same
For which only Ł45 they claim —
Having it ready too in thirty days
Or less, for which they merit highest praise………………………..9
Exactly the same I’ve already said
The Gun shall be, by my Art-Heroes made,
But only here to give what’s rightly due
You may be able thus to strike more true;


Here is part of the original 1813 proof law:

This post was edited and moved forward to p.54
A New History of Reilly, Gun Maker, London & Paris

This Reilly history (edited several times since published in summer 2019) corrects dozens of erroneous writings on the company, including Brown's Vol III, Boothroyd, and every article written about Reilly in the last 45 years. A justification with footnotes can be written for each paragraph below).
-- In the interest of not being politically correct..Reilly was an Irish Catholic..whether this influenced his ability to obtain a "Royal warrant" in Britain (he did in Catholic France, Spain and Portugal) or even a major contract with Arsenal is problematic.
-- Comment: The origin of the "Reilly was a retailer only" myth possibly came out of 1922. Riggs bought the Reilly name and put 20,000 guns on the market, none made by him, with "E.M. Reilly & Co., London" on the ribs from 1922 to 1966. A generation of gun makers grew up with this in their minds, without a reference to what Reilly was before, because by 1900, 22 years and a world war before, Reilly - the classic Reilly - was essentially toast.
-- Attached is also the latest SN date chart which should get a Reilly owner close to the date his gun was manufactured. See two separate and previous charts for "Dating Reilly Labels" and for the detailed dated list of Serial Numbered extant Reilly's.

====================== A New, Short History of Reilly of London, Gun Maker =======================

The Reilly firm of gun makers in London has long been viewed as enigmatic. Confusion exists on the location of the company, its products, and even whether it actually made guns or was just a retailer. Reilly's records were lost 100 years ago after bankruptcy. This new history should resolve these mysteries and re-establish Reilly as at one time perhaps one of if not the largest of gun makers in London during the mid-1800’s.

Joseph Charles Reilly was born in Ireland in 1786. He hailed from a well-to-do family and aspired to become a lawyer. In the mid-1800's he went to London to study (Irish Catholics could not study law in Ireland at the time); However, he had an independent streak; instead of law school, he struck out on his own into various technical fields. He married in 1812., in 1814 he opened a jewelry shop, later described as also dealing in silver-plate, at 12 Middle Row, Holborn, hard by the "Inns of the Court." He registered a silver mark "JCR" in July 1818. His clientele included country gentlemen and barristers.

Note: to register a silver/gold mark require a considerable apprenticeship and noted expertise. John Campbell in his article in “Double Gun Journal,” Summer 2015 also wrote that Reilly was a member of the clock-makers’ guild, something also requiring quite an apprenticeship.

In 1817 his son Edward Michael was born, the third of four children. He prospered, buying a country estate in Bedfordshire in 1824.

Jewelry shops in London at the time often dealt in guns, engraving them and re-selling them them (perhaps because of the influence of the artistic professionalism of Joseph Manton’s guns at the time). (Some such shops called themselves "Whitesmiths"). (Among the extant JC Reilly "jewelry" from this time period are two miniature working naval gun models with Damascus barrels).

First guns made at Holborn Bars, London:

Sometime around Summer 1828 he numbered his first Reilly built gun which presumably was 001. The oldest extant Reilly is SN 162, a single barrel 6 bore muzzle loader wild-fowler. Reilly's first ad for guns he specifically claimed to make is July 1830; However, ads from summer 1828 make it clear he was making guns for trusted clients - and urging customers not to spend money for a "name." The serial numbered guns included pistols, rifles and shotguns. His guns during this period often displayed the address “Holborn Bars.” (“Bars” shows the area was one of the old tax stations for entering London.)

Reilly Business Model:

JC Reilly early on adopted a business model which did not change during the life of the firm: i.e. provide a quality hand-made product for a moderate price and deliver it rapidly, and "make what would sell." With this model he undercut more expensive and better known makers and made his profit on volume.

Reilly dealt in used guns taken on trade and sold guns under license. However he did not serial number guns he did not build and he numbered his guns consecutively for 90 years with certain exceptions during the move to New Oxford-Street in 1847. Reilly had extensive finishing facilities in his large London buildings and at least early on may have stockpiled actions and barrel blanks from outworkers to allow him to meet orders three times as quickly as his competitors.

By 1833 all references to “jeweler” or "silver-plate" had vanished from his advertisements and from that time forward he identified himself solely as “Gun-Maker.” (The first advertisement so far found with "Gun-Maker" appeared in May 1831). (Note: 70 years later as Reilly fortunes bagan to decline, J.C. Reilly’s grandson advertised the firm as having been “established 1835.” This history knows more than the grandson did).

Aug 1835 move to 316 High Holborn-Street:

In August 1835 JC Reilly with 17 year old EM as an apprentice moved to 316 High Holborn Street. The first serial numbered extant gun with the High Holborn address is SN 1024, an 8.5mm pocket pistol.

By circa 1837 pistols were no longer numbered in the Reilly chronological numbering system; His serial numbered guns seemed to be limited to bespoke long-guns made to order. (The last serial numbered pistol so far found is SN 1292, a 120 bore, pocket pistol with a steel barrel).

Aug 1840 name change to “Reilly”:

In August 1840 the firm’s name in advertisements changed from J.C. Reilly to just “Reilly,” which may mark the advent of 23 year old EM as a full partner in the company. (EM is listed in the 1841 census as living with J.C. and his occupation, like that of J.C. is "Gun maker.") The names on the gun ribs continued to be “J.C. Reilly" or "Joseph Charles Reilly.” Case/Trade labels were styled like an embossed business card with "Joseph Charles Reilly," "Gun Maker," and the High Holborn address.

1840’s air-guns:

JC Reilly during this period also became known for his air cane guns. Young EM was billed as the expert and was so mentioned In advertisements, identified as “Reilly Junr." In 1847 EM wrote a widely disseminated pamphlet on air guns. It is mostly an advertising brochure highlighting the company's ability to produce all sorts of air-guns and parts – but also going into air pressures they achieved in the air chambers and other technical aspects of the guns. It is cited to this day. The pamphlet title page noted the author was "Reilly junr," used the (new) 502 New Oxford Street address and included the phrase "Removed from Holborn" (see below).

Note: Reilly became so associated with air-guns that his name was mentioned in various fiction “who-done-its,” and may have been a prototype for the Sherlock Holmes short story “The Empty House” by Arthur Conan Doyle.

Move to 502 New Oxford-Street, March 1847; changing the numbering chronology:

In late March 1847 Reilly moved from High Holborn to 502 New Oxford Street, a large building In the "Elizabethan" area on a new extension of Oxford Street. And with this move, Reilly demonstrated another trait of his business acumen, i.e. "Location." (The new road provided access to the center of London from the wealthy suburbs to the East.) He always chose prestigious, high-traffic locations for his stores. The last extant gun with High Holborn on the rib is 3329, a 10 gauge SxS percussion rifle.

The building was huge, an estimated 10,000 square feet of space. For a gun-maker in London, this was an enormous space – guns in London were being made in shops at the time the size of a modern kitchen).

At the time of the move the main serial number chronology for Reilly long-guns was jumped up 5000 numbers from about SN 3350 to begin anew at around 8350 (called for simplicity the "8350" series). The name on serial numbered guns after the move ultimately became simply “Reilly” with exceptions.

The first extant main-line SN’d gun from the new building is SN 8378, a SxS 12 bore muzzle-loading shotgun with “J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London” on the rib. The original label in the old High Holborn case label format had the 502 New Oxford Street, London address and noted the firm had “Removed from Holborn."

The first extant SN'd gun in the new series with only "Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London" is SN 8463, a .390 cal SxS muzzle loader rifle, also with "Removed from Holborn" on the label.

(Reilly used the phrase "Removed from Holborn" in advertisements after the move from April 1847 to November 1847. By December 1847 it had disappeared from his ads.).

J.C. Reilly 7000 series numbering chronology 1846-1857:

Preceding this move to New Oxford Street, around the end of 1845, perhaps anticipating the (planned) change in the main serial number chronology, J.C. Reilly appears to have kept a series of numbers for himself, called for simplicity the J.C. "7000" series. He numbered about 1200 guns over the next 11 years in this series beginning around SN 7000 and ending around 8200 when he retired in 1857. JC Reilly sometimes (but not always) put his full name or initials on the ribs of these serial numbers but with the 502 New Oxford Street address; yet the trade/case labels with "Reilly" as the firm's name and the advertisements/publicity remained the same for the “8350” main-line series and the J.C. “7000” series.

-- The first extant SN’d gun in the JC “7000” series is SN 7023, an 11 bore SxS percussion shotgun, a gun with “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London” on the rib, probably numbered in early 1846.

-- SN 7201, a .577 percussion single barrel rifle, was the first in the J.C. 7000 series with the new "502 New Oxford St., London" address on the rib, probably numbered around September 1847. It has the old style “J.C. Reilly” trade label with the new 502 New Oxford Street address and also with "Removed from Holborn.”

-- The last extant gun in the 7000 series (no doubt made in late summer 1857) is SN 8186, an elegant .650 mimi ball single barrel muzzle-loader rifle ("Vini, Vidi, Vici" on the rib - see below).

Outlier J.C. Serial Numbered Guns:

There are outlier SN'd guns associated with JC,
-- 4573 – c1842, a 7 gauge, smoothbore, short single barrel, dangerous game gun with “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London” on the barrel,
-- 5514 – March 1847, a 16 bore SxS muzzle loader shotgun, which has “J.C. Reilly 316 High Holborn now 502 New Oxford Street, London” on the rib, (the only gun found so far with both addresses and obviously numbered around the time of the move),
-- 2008 – C1850-56, a 14 bore SxS muzzle-loader shotgun with “Joseph Charles Reilly, New Oxford Street, London” on the rib, and
-- 3514, a 13 bore SxS percussion shotgun with "Reilly, New Oxford Street, London" on the rib, apparently made (per the trade label in the case) after 1855,
which do not fit any sort of pattern, illustrating the sometime quirkiness of JC Reilly.

New Label for 502 New Oxford-Street:

Soon after the move, possibly around December 1847, the trade label changed to "Reilly, Gun Maker," was rectangular shaped with scolloped corners and featured a sketch of 502 New Oxford Street. Note: From 1847 to 1859 long guns and hand guns can be found with “Edward M.,” “Edward Michael,” or "E.M" on their ribs; however, unless serial numbered these were not built by Reilly - they were only engraved and marketed.

Reilly in the early 1850's:

Business anthologies and gun history sites from this period note that J.C. Reilly made guns, E.M. Reilly air guns. But, both worked from the same building and used the same advertisements. This distinction has been made too much of.

Advertisements from 1851 papers show that Reilly had a 300 yard shooting range near his London establishment. It apparently was located off Wood Lane, Shepard's Bush.

Reilly exhibited at the 1851 Crystal Palace International Exposition (as Edward M. Reilly) were he was much taken by the Casimir Lefaucheaux center-break gun. Reilly, Lang and Blanch became the major advocates for these new types of guns in England.

Reilly also exhibited at the 1855 Paris Universelle Exposition, where he received much acclaim, "all guns were sold," and "many orders were booked." The exhibit was in the name of E.M Reilly; however, advertisements make it very clear that though EM won the medals, the firm was still "Reilly, Gun Maker."

Reilly numbering bore sizes before 1855 law:

(Note: In 1855 the British government required that bore sizes be stamped on barrels; Reilly, however, along with Greener and Manton, appears to have been amongst the very few gun makers stamping bore sizes for years before the formal requirement.). There are several extant Reilly’s with bore size stamps dating back to 1842.

Trade/Case label change after 1855 French exposition, possibly in October 1856:

Reilly case labels changed after 1855 to illustrate the 1851 and 1855 world's fair medals and to highlight “Fusils ŕ Bascule," French for center-break guns (made on the "Lefaucheux principle") and other breech loaders such as Prince Patent bolt action guns, and the Terry Patent breech loaders which he marketed and promoted. (The first dated newspaper ad so far found with this phrase appears in "The Law Journal" 16 Aug 1856).

Note: There are other 1856 Reilly advertisements for “Fusils ŕ Bascule” or "Fusils Bascule” from 1856 but the exact dates they were published is not clear. There is a Reilly 12 bore pin-fire rifle shell stamped “Reilly, London” and dated 1855. It is not at all certain, however, that Reilly made these shells; they well could have been made under contract and imported from France. The cartridge’s existance proves only that Reilly was selling pin-fire shells in 1855. It does, however, highlight Reilly’s involvement in center-break guns at the time.

J.C. Retires September 1857:

In September 1857 J.C. Reilly retired to his country estates at Bourn End, Cranfield, Bedfordshire, where he died a wealthy man in January 1864; his last guns in the "7000" series were engraved with Julius Caesar's words "Vini, Vidi, Vici" ("I came, I saw, I conquered") possibly as his swan song story of his life. "Formerly Gun-Maker, London" is chiseled on his tombstone.

(Speculation: J.C.'s retirement appeared to have been quite abrupt. At the time the debate over center-break breech-loaders, a French invention, divided families and flame wars raged in the British press. One must wonder if J.C., the traditionalist, broke with his son E.M, a very early proponent of the Lefaucheux break-action gun, over this issue - much like what happened between the Greener's father/son a few years later). (Based on just uncovered earlier advertisements, “broke” is probably not the correct word for the relationship – rather a more accurate description of JC's retirement should be something like “JC surrendered the field to his son.”)

Reilly Building Break Action Guns 1856-1860:

Reilly, began building center-break guns as early as 1856 (possibly late 1855). (Note: E.M. Reilly claimed he experimented with the concept shortly after the 1851 Crystal Hall exhibition but abandoned it as commercially unviable – whether this is true or not is not verifiable).

-- The oldest Reilly center-break gun so far found is 10054, a "Lefaucheux/Lang" type long forward-underlever, single-bite type pin-fire 15 bore SxS rifle engraved "Reilly, 502 New Oxford-Street, London" on the rib. It is in a period case, with the post 1855 Paris Universelle label with “Fusils ŕ Bascule” on it. It would date per the chart to Fall 1856, about the time the first Reilly ad for “Fusils ŕ Bascule” appeared in the London Press (mentioned above).

-- The second oldest is a similar 16bore SxS SN 10128 made a couple of months afterwards.

-- The third oldest extant Reilly break-action SxS gun found to date is 10655, a "Lefaucheux/Lang" type forward-underlever, single-bite type pin-fire 12 bore SxS shotgun with "E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford-Street, London" on the rib, probably numbered around the time of the below mentioned "The Field" trial - March 1858.

E.M. Reilly participated in the April 1858 trial pitting muzzle-loaders against breech-loaders run by "The Field." (His breech-loader handed a W.W. Greener muzzle-loader an historic defeat in this trial; Greener later tried to denigrate breech-loaders in his 1858 book, and was called out in the most definitive fashion by "The Field.") At this time, there were probably less that 250 center-break breech-loaders being shot in the UK, if that many, in spite of all the noise and controversy in the press.

By Fall 1858 Reilly (along with Lang and Blanch, the original proponents of break-action guns in UK) was reported to be "overdone with orders for his breech-loaders" per "The Field." Reilly provided 4 guns for the follow-on muzzle-loader/break-action breech-loader trial run by the "The Field" in July 1859, at least one built on the "lever under fore-arm" English standard single-bite "Lefaucheux/Lang" principle per a sketch in "The Field" but others with the under-lever located under the trigger guard Beringer-style per a summer 1859 book sketch. His 16 bore was singled out for excellence by the editor of "The Field."

Observation re "retailer" vs "gunmaker" from an analysis of 10054 (Fall 1856), 10128 (December 1856) and 10655 (March 1858):

-- In Fall 1856, there were virtually no outworkers in London who could have made 10054 or 10128. Both guns are early Lang/Lefaucheux forward under-lever pin-fire SxS's. Lang was making pin-fire Lefaucheux style breech loaders but not for the trade. Blanch claimed he made his first pin-fire breech-loader in 1856, this after traveling to Paris to buy a center-break, under-lever around trigger-guard, Berringer style pin-fire in late 1855 after the Paris Universelle and reverse engineering it (He wrote about this purchase – the receipt exists). Reilly, thus was on his own when he obviously embarked on a similar path to that of Blanch in 1855 or possibly earlier to manufacture and sell the French invention.

-- Blanch explained in his later book that at the time the change-over from muzzle-loaders entailed a massive alteration in the manufacturing processes for guns from a breech-plug to a lump, from locks to actions, etc. - this in the face of a very conservative clientele.

-- As for 10655, a Lefaucheux-style 12 bore SxS Shotgun pin-fire breech-loader, at the time it was numbered, early 1858, believe there were still very few gun-making firms or gun makers in general in all of UK that could have made it (and it's twins - submitted by Reilly for the March 1858 "The Field" breech-loader vs muzzle-loader trials) or portions of it - barrels, actions, etc.
. . . . - Again, the two firms, who could possibly have made it, were Lang and Blanch (E.C. Hodges, the original designer of Lang's break-action gun, was making center-break actions, labeled with his name on the plate - not found on Reilly's). The first Birmingham-made center-break gun was still several years in the future.
. . . .- However, Lang and Blanch had orders aplenty themselves - they likely had no time to manufacture for "the trade." (Haris Holland made his first breech loader in 1857 although he advertised them in Sep 1856; Boss in 1858; Purdey in late 1858 or early 1859, etc.)

-- Thus, the most logical conclusion is that both 10054 and 10655 were indeed made by Reilly as he has claimed - no one else could have done it for him.

-- (These two conclusions are per historical data currently available on the early origins of UK center-break pin-fires.)

August 1858, 315 Oxford-Street Opened:

In early August 1858 with new partners (unknown) EM opened a branch store/factory in a large building at 315 Oxford Street, probably because of the surging demand for break-action breech-loaders. The branch early on was also referred to as "Reilly's Armoury House" - Salvation Army hall was located behind the building - or on labels (a separate format from the 502 labels) "The Manufactory." It had a 50 yard shooting gallery attached (see below). Reilly was three doors down from Purdey (located at "314 1/2" - the numbers are deceiving).

Note: Oxford Street numbering at the time was extremely confusing, there were 9 x 315’s in the 1871, 81 censuses and in the pre 1882 postal directories.

The Shooting Gallery at 315 Oxford Street:

A 50 yard shooting gallery in central London is extremely unusual. While many gun manufacturers had a small space for shooting hand-guns - 5 to 10 yards - perhaps only two had a space where shotguns and rifles could be shot, Lang and Reilly. Lang had a well-known shooting gallery described numerous times; but believe it was only about 25 - 30 yards long.

So Reilly's shooting gallery likely was unique. Per Newspaper ads and per mentions in articles in “The Field,” the 50 yard shooting gallery was "on the premises" of Reilly’s 315 manufactory. It had to be above ground for light and ventilation (pre-electric power). It may have been on the ground floor of the adjacent Billiard Club also numbered “315” or in the vacant space just to the west of the Salvation Army. The last ad for the range so far found is in 1867.

Reilly history of selling to military, gun clubs at wholesale prices:

Reilly also began advertising rifles sold wholesale to equip "Yoemanry" militia, organizing in UK to repell a threatened French invasion. He continued to advertise such guns up to at least the 1890's. Most of these guns may not have been made by him, especially after the early 1860's, and thus not serial numbered.. (The Yoemanry Militia, a sort of UK “National Guard,” was still in existence in WWI and units were deployed to France).

Reilly and pistols:

Note: Reilly always retailed pistols of all types from the beginning of the firm to the end. He engraved them and put his name on them. However, after 1837 he did not serial number them as previously mentioned. By 1859 he was selling all types of pistols and revolvers, Trantor, Colt, Smith&Wesson; he sold Howdah's, pepperboxes, duelers, derringers, Flobert, etc. But, because he did not serial number these guns, he did not build them. Reilly did assemble foreign made revolvers possibly as early as 1860. But Reilly did not serial number assembled guns - witness the Martini-Henry Reillys (see below). Thus pistols are ignored in this post; they cannot be used to date Reilly long-guns except for those with surviving cases which had original trade labels, which helped build a data-base of Reilly case labels.

Note: A Reilly pepperbox may have been weilded by “Flashman” in the novel “Flashman and the Mountain of Light,” by George MacDonald Fraser.

Reilly Stocks:

Note: Reilly almost always used a straight English stock for SxS shotguns. He almost always used a pistol grip stock for rifles, and if not, a trigger-guard extension which aped a pistol grip. If a classic Reilly "shotgun" has a pistol grip stock, it almost certainly was repurposed from a rifle. (There are proven exceptions, but rare).

Reilly from very early on used French walnut. His highly figured stocks differed markedly from the standard English walnut offered by other makers and may be something of a marker.

Company Name Changes to Reilly & Co

The company may have used "Reilly & Co." for a short while from circa August 1858-October 1859 per a few advertisements & references in books; no trade labels exist with this name. One extant gun has "Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London" allegedly on the barrel - SN 10811, a Prince patent breech loader, probably ordered in fall 1858. No photos were available to confirm the name/address on the barrel of 10811 but, relying on Christie's advertising integrity, this is probably the first extant gun made at 315 Oxford Street.

Note: From this time forward guns with only "Oxford Street, London" on their ribs will have been built at 315 Oxford Street. Guns built at 502 New Oxford street would have (without a street number) simply "New Oxford St." The first gun with the number "315" physically on the barrel is a 3-band Enfield SN 11419, probably numbered in spring 1860.

Name changes to E.M. Reilly & Co.:

By October 1859 the company’s name changed definitively to "E.M. Reilly & Co," a name which continued in use until bankruptcy in 1918 and beyond when the name was bought by Charles Riggs. His labels for both workshops changed at that time to reflect the new name, "E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Maker." The label for 502 New Oxford St. continued to illustrate the sketch of the building; 315 Oxford Street continued to have a different label but now also with the E.M Reilly & Co. name.

The first extant serial numbered gun with E.M. Reilly & Co. on the rib is a 3 band Enfield SN 11227. (Note: pre-1859 serial-numbered guns with "E.M Reilly" on the rib but without the "& Co.," have been found - 10655, dated cMarch 1858, is an example).

Gun Maker becomes Gun Manufacturers:

A year later in circa August 1860 the company's description on labels and in advertisements changed from “Gun Maker” to “Gun Manufacturers” and at that time the sketch of 502 New Oxford Street was dropped from his case labels. The separate label for 315 Oxford St. also was dropped. The basic format for the new label remained consistent for the next 30+ years with variations (additions of medals, branch addresses, occasionally mention of royalty, etc.) (There were a few outlier labels). The advertising scroll work at the bottom of the label changed slightly after 1885. (See the separate chart dating Reilly labels).

Business anthologies at this time identified EM Reilly as both gun and pistol manufacturers and sword/cutlery makers. Reilly’s name has been found engraved on bayonettes and swords from the era.

During this time frame Reilly in advertisements claimed to be making every piece of every gun he serial numbered in his two workshops on Oxford Street and invited customers to "view the progress of their order." This would make Reilly one of the very few "vertical" gun companies in London. The London (and Birmingham) gun trade at the time relied for the most part on out-sourced parts and materials, which were assembled and finished in-house. (Note. Haris Holland posted a similar advertisement in "The Field" in 1858. It's entirely possible that Reilly was allowing customers to view only the "assembled/finished" parts of small arms manufacturing).

Reilly and the 1862 London exposition:

In 1862 Reilly showed at the London International exposition and won a medal for an exhibit which included a gold washed 12 bore muzzle-loader shotgun which may still exist (SN 12532). The result, an “honorable mention” medal, had to be disappointing; Reilly placed great store in scoring well at these expositions – it was an advertising bonanza and certainly he put out a bliz of publicity leading up to the World’s Fair.

Attempts to Curry Favor with the British Royal Family:

Throughout the 1860's Reilly guns were purchased by various members of the British royal family, usually to give as gifts to foreign dignitaries or persons who had done favors for the family. Reilly tried to obtain, but without success, a Royal Warrant as "Gun Maker to the Royal Family."

Note: For a few months in 1862 Reilly published advertisements associating himself with the Royal Family based apparently on the purchase of Reilly guns by the Prince of Wales. He also spent hundreds of pounds on elaborate gas light decorations to his buildings on various Royal anniversaries and on the wedding of the Prince. He apparently was slapped down pretty quickly and after November 1862, such claims never again surfaced.

Attempts to Win a Military Contract:

From at least the 1840’s the Reilly’s tried mightily to win a lucrative military contract from the British government.
-- JC Reilly exhibited brass mortars in 1845.
-- EM Reilly promoted the Prince patent breech loader in the late 1850’s (joining other London gun-makers in urging Ordinance re-open the 1853 Army rifle competition which had selected the Enfield rifle-musket).
-- He worked with the Green brothers to win a contract for their patent breech loader, to which he had manufacturing rights, in the early 1860’s (competing against the Snider which ultimately won out).
-- He put forward the Comblain breech loader from Belgium, to which he gained patent rights in England, in 1868-70 (competing against trial guns such as the Martini and the Henry, a combination of which was adopted).
-- And, he patented an explosive bullet in 1869, a sort of early M-79 idea.
However, he never obtained a major contract (as far as the present day evidence goes).

Reilly did sell and engrave British military guns - Enfields, Snider's, Martini's and later Lee-Speeds; He hawked these guns to the Yoemanry Volunteer Militia and to rifle clubs at wholesale prices, versions of them to Military personnel going abroad and to big-game hunters for 50 years. But, unless he built them himself he did not serial number these guns.

As an example, the history of Reilly building Martini-Henry rifles/actions is instructive. The M-H was adopted for trial by the Army in summer 1871. Reilly first tentatively advertised a "Henry-Martini" in early 1871. The first true advertisement for a "Martini-Henry" appeared in November 1871. There is one Reilly Martini-Henry with a SN dated per the chart to Jan 1972 (SN 17314). There are many extant Reilly-made Martini-Henry's afterwards, in a half-dozen calibers, one being an 8-bore (cal .775), none with serial numbers. It seems that at the time if one wanted to build a M-H rifle, Arsenal would insist on sending over the parts.

(One must wonder why this was. Apparently the Henry shallow grove rifling patent from November 1860 was allowed to be extended for another 14 years as a consequence of its being adopted by the military. Perhaps this stipulation – along with protection of the Martini action - basically a rip-off of an American invention - was part of the patent arrangements).

Reilly takes on Paris, Again:

EM Reilly always seemed to be enamored with Paris and as the 1867 Paris Universelle exposition approached, he meticulously prepared an exhibit that was extensively lauded. It won him gold and silver medals, led him to became a “gun maker” for Napoleon III, and in February 1868 to open a branch office (EM Reilly & Cie.) at 2 rue Scribe, Paris where orders for his guns could be taken. The store was located in the Grand Hotel near the Gare du Nord, a prime location (British travelers to Paris arrived at the Gare du Nord). This branch office remained open for the next 17 years. The first extant gun with 2 rue Scribe on the rib is 14983, an 8 bore SxS under-lever, hammer gun (with a firing system very much resembling the earlier Lancaster "base-fire" action) shotgun.

Note: The French press in articles about Reilly in the 20th century has claimed that the artistic elegance and balance of a Reilly gun came from its association with Paris.

His case labels changed at this time to feature the two medals won at the 1867 World’s Fair and often (but not always) mentioned both branch addresses.

Two and a half years later the Franco-Prussian War broke out. After the battle of Sedan September 3, 1870 Napoleon III fell from power – the Third French Republic was declared; the medals (with Napoleon III's profile on them) disappeared from Reilly’s case labels for awhile yet continued occasionally to resurface on both labels and in advertisements for the next 15 years.

Note: Napoleon III died in exile in England in 1873. His widow Empress Eugenia bought a Reilly 12 bore SxS shotgun, while in England SN 17532 (dated per the chart to mid 1872), and a second Really 16 bore (SN unknown) both of which are now in the USA somewhere. Her son was killed in the Zulu Wars in 1879. She died in 1920 having been awarded the Order of the British Empire.

Note: Reilly's affinity for France was well known and commented on in newspapers at the time (was this possibly an Irish-French Catholic connection?). A French woman was found in his house in the 1861 census; In Fall 1870 he was prosecuted for attempting to smuggle 2,000 shells to his rue Scribe address, a violation of UK neutrality in the conflict; and in 1871 offered to sell 6,000 Chassepot rifles (stored in Birmingham) to the new French Republic. There are Reilly trade labels from the period where the owner of the gun has taken pains to erase the Paris address - Francophobia was alive and well in UK. And with this long-time connection, one must assume that early on, after the 1851 exposition, EM was in contact with French center-break breech-loader makers and must have been experimenting. He had contacts in Ličge (as did Trantor) possibly as early as the 1850's. Whether he spoke French is unknown.

1868-76 Miscellania:

Also around 1869 he changed the description of the company in ads to "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" (as did many other English gun makers). This description was sometimes but not usually used on his trade/case labels for the next 15 years. (There are two extant guns with this phrase on the ribs or barrels: SN 25572, a .450 BPE SxS U-L hammer gun rifle dated 1883 and SN 26537 also a .450 BPE SxS U-L hammer gun rifle dated 1884).

In 1876 some Reilly labels and publicity began advertising a connection to the King of Portugal and by 1882 to the Kings of Spain and The Netherlands. In addition around this time 315 Oxford Street began to use a slightly different case label and later, also for a short time, a different label for revolvers but with the same shape advertising "Breech Loading Gun & Rifle Manufacturers."

Reilly and the American Market:

From as early as 1868 Reilly had evinced an interest in penetrating the American market. He acquired an American agent (Joseph Grubbs, Philadelphia), had his guns advertised in mail order catalogs, and exhibited at the 1876 Philadelphia centennial along side very high-standard British guns such as Purdey, and won a medal.

Situation of the Company in 1878-80:

Reilly again exhibited at the 1878 Paris exposition and again won medals. By 1880 Reilly sold a third more - soon to be twice as many - serial numbered, hand made bespoke guns than both Holland and Holland and Purdey combined, this in addition to:
-- a very active business in guns sold under license from well known gun makers including revolvers (Trantor, Baumont-Adams, Walker, Colt, etc), rook rifles, repeating rifles (Sharps, Winchester, etc.),
-- as well as merchandising every type of gun accoutrement - reloaders, cartridges, shells, cases, etc.
-- and sustaining a huge business in previously owned guns.

Reilly told the 1881 census taker that he employed some 300 people in his firm, an extraordinarialy high number for the times, an indication of the extent of his gun manufacturing and sales business. (WW Greener in the same census claimed to employ 140, less than half the number of Reilly; Purdey in 1871 said he employed 58, 1/5th the number of Reilly workers).

Selling Off The Rack, 1882:

Around 1881 per advertisements it appears that Reilly made a business decision to stock ready-made guns and sell them off-the-rack as well as selling his usual bespoke made-to-order guns. This might account for the soaring number of guns serial numbered per year, which grew from about 650 numbered in 1880 to some 1050 in 1882. It might also account for certain discrepancies in serial numbered guns from this time forward such as 303xx which would have been numbered in late 1888-early 1889 but still has "Not For Ball" on its barrels (a stamping discontinued in 1887).

If this were the case, Reilly possibly serial numbered his bespoke guns when ordered (usual London practice) and his off-the-rack guns when sold.

(When knowledgable gun historians and makers were queried about this phenomena – guns with pre-1887 proof marks apparently made after that date - they shrugged and said essentially that no-one can logically explain the process at the time - some gun makers ignored or stretched the law; some used barrels already proofed..etc.)

The decision to vastly expand production and sell ready-made guns may mark the origin of a trend towards marketing Birmingham-made guns finished in London to satisfy demand. Scott triplex actions found on several 1880’s Reilly’s may be an example. (This said, Scott usually managed to put a Scott number on his guns and actions – none have been found on Reilly’s and the Reilly Scott Triplex actions have on their barrels “Improved Patent” for some reason or another. Thus it is also entirely possible that Reilly built them under license).

Change in numbering of Oxford Street, Nov 1881:

In November 1881 Oxford Street was renumbered; ”502” became “16 New Oxford Street” and “315” becoming “277 Oxford Street.” The first extant gun with either of the new addresses on the ribs is SN 23536, a 12 ga. SxS BLE shotgun.

In spite of the formal change in numbering, the old numbers occasionally appeared in Reilly ads and on gun ribs for the next couple of years; Reilly trade labels, however, did not appear to change definitively to the new numbering system until circa 1885. There are exceptions. (There are not enough trade labels extant from this time period to make a definitive judgement on when the trade labels changed their addresses: there is a 16, New Oxford Street label with rue Scribe on it; However, no “277 Oxford Street” labels with the Paris branch have so far been found).

Reilly in the Early 1880's:

Reilly’s business was booming and gun production topped 1000 a year. Reilly reportedly was making long guns for other London gun-makers and around this time began importing cheap Belgian-made revolvers in parts which he assembled in his buildings, engraved and sold. (Reilly, like Trantor and others, possibly was involved with the Belgian manufacture and "assembly trade" much earlier...perhaps dating to as early as the 1850's).

He exhibited at the 1882 Calcutta fair (a British Empire only affair) and won a medal and was highly praised for his exhibit at the 1884/85 London International Expositions where he again won medals.

Reilly guns figured very well in live pigeon shooting contests throughout the 1880’s and big game hunters in Africa used his guns and advertised the results (including Henry Morton Stanley, the Welsh-American and perhaps the most famous of all African explorers, Dr. David Livingston, and noted Victorian era African hunter and author Frederick Selous).

Closure of the Paris Branch:

In July 1885 rue Scribe was closed. The reasons for this are not known - hand made guns were being sold at a very high rate; it may have had to do with the departure of a long-time partner (possibly a M. Poirat? He was the agent for Reilly in 1871, mentioned in French parliamentary records when Reilly tried to sell the stock of Chassepot rifles in Birmingham to the French Republic.).

The last extant SN’d gun with rue Scribe on the rib is 27340, a 12 bore SxS top-lever, hammer-gun, shotgun. (There are three guns with later serial numbers which have only "Paris" on their barrels all SxS built on the Scott "triplex" system; However, these may have been ready-made prior to 1885 and only numbered when sold off the rack).

The labels for both London branches changed slightly at this time, advertising different guns in the scroll work at the bottom of the label.

29 rue Faubourg, Saint-Honoré, Paris

Note: In the early 1880's Reilly apparently opened a small satellite branch of 2 rue Scribe, Paris at 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honoré, Paris for a short time.
-- Five different gun case labels show the store would have been in existence after the November 1881 change in Oxford Street addresses but before the July 1885 closure of 2 rue Scribe.
-- The labels picture the 1867 Paris medals and the 1884 London international exposition medals, seemingly dating them from late 1884 to mid 1885. One such label appears on SN 26880, a gun dated to Feb 1885. However, this label also is found in a case housing SN 22432, dated 1880 and bought by a man who died in 1882.
-- An advertisement/paid-for article with this address appeared in Jan 1886 London press touting a win by an Italian (a well known marksman) at the Monte Carlo pigeon shoot (an important event); whether the address was on the rib of his gun or on the trade/case label is unknown.
-- No newspaper ads for this branch exist (and it was a prestigious location - Coco Chanel's apartments were above it in another century - which should have been publicized). No extant guns have thus far been found with this address.
-- Perhaps this store was occupied while the Grand Hotel was undergoing renovation?

Reilly in the Late 1880's:

Reilly exhibited at the 1889 Paris World's Fair, the “Tour Eiffel" Exposition Universalle, and may have won a silver medal. However, by this time advertisements for Reilly guns had declined and he did not publicize the medals if he won them.

A nasty law-suit on easement limitations to the Salavation Army Hall behind his establishment at 277 Oxford Street was litigated. (The legal decision is cited to this day).

The fact is, something changed with the firm after 1886; Reilly's guns regularly won competitions and were donated to be given as prizes at high-end shooting competitions; but the company just gradually retracted from mass-media print. The cocky swagger of the 1860's seemed to have burnt itself out.

Death of E.M. Reilly and aftermath:

In July 1890 EM Reilly contracted broncho-pneumonia and passed away. Reilly's acknowledged sons Charles A. was 20, Herbert H. was 15, and Gerald Atol was 13 - all still in school (none with the hands-on gun-making expertise that EM had in his upbringing). His first "son" Edward Montague was 23 (see below). His wife Mary was in her 40's. Business was still lively. Widows did successfully manage companies in England at the time after the deaths of their husbands. In his will E.M did not leave his wife Mary Ann the "trade books." However, newspaper articles on the later death of her son Edward Montague indicate that Mary was indeed running the company.

Yet, this said, somehow the light of Reilly entrepreneurship went out with E.M.’s death. His wife operated in a "man's world." Subsequently, his sons did not have the hands-on knowledge of the gun manufacturing trade that EM had hammered into him in the 1830’s. Nor did they have the generational connections to the business, or the understanding of the complex entertwinings of its execution. The gun-trade was always a sort of dance while juggling a number of balls
-- relationship to outworkers,
-- handling in-house bench workers,
-- dealing with importation of parts (from Belgium) and the licensing for manufacturing others’ patents,
-- contacts with Birmingham mass production factories
-- kow-towing to the upper class,
-- staying abreast of market trends,
-- and always advertising and promoting.
It was a tough game. But Reilly's wife was...his wife. His kids were rich from their birth. None were "on the benches" like EM was when he was 12 years old. It showed.

Characterizing the Reilly’s:

This study has not looked at the Reilly family except where it effects the business; however, here are some possible characterizations of the Reilly's (based on very limited information, much from Sally Nestor, family researcher).

-- JC comes across as something of an early 19th century/Victorian self-absorbed narcissist (this from one possibly extremely prejudiced source) - note: He registered a silver mark - not something one can just do without true expertise and apprenticeship, and - per John Campbell - not independently confirmed - was a clock-maker and a member of the "Clockmakers" guild. JC apparently had some serious mechanical skills. He appears to have been rebellious, snarky, and independent, and probably was a difficult and demanding boss - but he had allies in the gun world, i.e. a relationship with John Blanch from pretty much the time when he first began to build his own guns (a deduction from very limited evidence - Blanch kept Reilly advertisements from the 1840 era in his private scrap book).

-- EM appears to have been an imaginative, far-sighted, organized, ambitious businessman (based on his business record). He also worked with his father from an early age in the gun making business and had extensive hands-on experience in making guns and air guns. He had some excellent political connections in the gun trade - the same group of gun makers appear repeatedly together in the late 1850-early 1860 time period - Prince, Green, Deane, Reilly, Blanch, and a couple of others - and given that he manufactured well in excess of 10,000 Green and Comblain breech loaders (presumably in Birmingham) in the 1860's, he had connections there as well. He had to have had some people skills. He was perhaps a bit of a control freak and probably not easy to be around - especially if you were his son. (The Victorian age was not a "huggy-feely" one) (this only from interpreting the wording in his will).

-- The first son, Edward Montague b.1867 probably was the pre-marriage offspring of then 50 year old EM and his then 21 year old future wife Mary....but seeing as they were cousins, marriage was forbidden - for awhile. Four sons were born, three out of wedlock; However, only Edward Montague was called a "reputed" son. Edward Montague was an "engineer" and "gun maker" following in his father's footsteps and was designated as an executor of EM's will (along with Mary). He apparently later worked on locomotives. In about 1893 he came down with tuberculosis and ultimately fell from a window in July 1895.

-- EM's wife Mary Ann was a woman operating in a "man's world" after his death. The fact that she apparently ran the company for 9 years from 1890-99 before her death is a testament to her pluckiness. There is not much known about her except by analysis for her "moxie." At 20 years old, she seduced a 50 year old successful businessman, ignoring convention. She had 4 sons out of "wedlock" one of which may not have been his; and after his death, in spite of not being left the "trade books," she apparently ran a large company in Victorian, England. This is really something movies are made for - sex, guns, money and power. Her offspring included later Members of Parliament. No-one knows who were her parents or her background; family historians speculate that she was E.M.'s cousin. Even her maiden name is not clear...it is either Curtis or "C-o-x." She was born in 1845, died 12 January 1899. She deserves more attention.

Reilly decline in mid-1890’s:

By 1895, the death of Edward Montague, Reilly guns were no longer being mentioned as often as winners in pigeon shoots; Reilly victories and promotional donations of guns as prizes had been a prominent feature in London papers for 25 years. And yet, advertisments for the firms’ products continued to fill the newspapers; and due to reputation, Reilly was still being mentioned in books at the turn of the century as a company which could make quality Africa-proof big-bore rifles.

Closure of 16, New Oxford Street:

In early May 1897 the company closed 16 New Oxford Street where it had been located for 50 years; 277 Oxford Street remained open. Bespoke guns continued to be sold in the early 1890’s at a goodly clip but as the decade advanced, and factory mass produced guns with steel barrels began to compete with Damascus, the demand for these hand-made and measured guns in a middling cost category seemed to decline. Reilly serial numbered gun production dwindled steadily (see dating chart below). (And the company’s mangement after 1890 did not seem to have E.M.’s business sense or “touch.”)

With sales diminishing, closing the finishing facilities at 16 New Oxford street while retaining the smaller sales and manufacturing spaces at 277 Oxford Street would seem to have been logical. The last extant SN’d gun from 16 New Oxford Street is 34723, a 12 bore SxS, top-lever, hammer-gun, shotgun.

After 1897 the trade/case labels changed to reflect the marketing of magazine guns and advertised the medals won in 1876 (Philadelphia), 1878 (Paris), and 1885 (London) and 1873 (Vienna) (although there is no evidence that Reilly actually exhibited in Vienna). On his presentation cases, the company description changed back to "gun and rifle makers" although the company was still "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" in phone and business directories.

In January 1899 Mary Ann Reilly died - she was only 54. Apparently H.H. (Bert) Reilly, E.M's third son, then only 24 years old, took over the management of the company.

Move to 295 Oxford-Street:

In March 1903 the Company vacated 277 Oxford-Street where they had been quartered for 44 years while the building was being renovated and moved 300 yards down the street to 295 Oxford-Street. The first extant gun with 295 Oxford Street on the rib is 35423, a 12 ga. SxS BLE shotgun (dated by the below chart to May 1904). Note: Newspaper ads for Reilly stopped in February 1903 while still at 277, and did not resume again until May 1904 with the shop located at 295 Oxford Street.

Bankruptcy, June 1912:

The company remained at 295 until bankruptcy was declared on 06 June 1912 (publicized on 08 June 1912 in the London Monday morning papers). The last extant gun with 295 on the rib is 35678, a 12 bore SxS BLE shotgun. Reportedly during this period at least one gun was built with "J.C. Reilly" and the old "Holborn Bars" address on the rib.

Note: Per advertisements in September 1911 the company announced it was for sale or in need of new partners with cash. Its stock of guns was advertised at reduced prices for cash only. In December 1911 the company was changed to a limited liability company with "CW Roberts" (probably G. Watkinson Roberts - liquidator specialist) as one of the directors. Roberts was a bankruptcy lawyer. Reilly's continued advertising 295 for sale in Spring 1912 per newspaper advertisements. It appears Bert Reilly knew bankruptcy was coming and changed the company to protect his personal assets. He retained his separate homes after bankruptcy.

13 High Street, Marylebone:

Bert Reilly opened a small gun shop, E.M Reilly & Co., at 13 High Street, Marylebone in 1912 after the bankruptcy. No advertisements can be found for the shop though per London postal address, telephone and business directories they identified themselves as "gunmakers." No guns with this address on the rib have been found. The date of its closure is not noted although it is listed in the London telephone directory in 1918 (but not in 1919). (Note: one internet site states that 13 High Street was occupied by Reilly as early as December of 1911 while 295 was trying to be sold; no footnotes or validation of this claim have as yet been verified.)

Charles Riggs era, 1922-1966:

In August 1922 The Reilly name was bought by a sporting goods dealer named Charles Riggs (most Reilly history summaries put the date of purchase as 1917; this is belied by the dates of newspaper advertising). Riggs apparently decided he could use the name to promote his premium line of guns (possibly built by Osborne/Midland). Whether a Reilly had any say in the design of these Riggs-Reilly guns is unknown.

Riggs was quite a self-promoting character and comes across in advertisements and articles as something of an annoying, pretentious, status-climbing, con man with a large ego and a huge amount of hubris and energy. There are pictures of him medalled like a royal prince claiming marksmanship trophies that the historical record doesn’t support; he billed himself as a yeomanry sergeant early on but had self-promoted to Lieutenant later on in life. He very well could have rubbed the gun establishment the wrong way.

Riggs remained in business until 1966. His “Reilly named” guns have six-digit serial numbers and appear to begin at around 130000. A Riggs "Reilly" with a serial number in the 150000’s is known to exist. (Note: As a further identifier, a lot of the Rigg's-Reilly's have "Prince of Wales" half pistol grip stocks - something the original Reilly firm never made.)

Conclusion:

The Reilly's sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1828 to 1912, all built by them. The guns that they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. Reilly was one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was in a unique style and consistently classy. Reilly's best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.

Gene Williams, Sep 05, 2018; last updated 02 Nov 2020
See follow-on SN dating chart w/footnotes:

=================================== SN Date Chart ===========================================

Year. . . . . . . . . . . .Serial Numbers. . . . . . . # of SN�d guns made in 1 year
. . . Black-Main Chronology; Blue: JC �7000� series. . . . . . .*Marker footnotes. **Sanity checks

1828: . . 001 - . .050 - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50. .*1. .12 Middle-row, Holborn Bars
1829: . . 051 - . .180. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .130
1830: . . 181 - . .320. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .140
1831: . . 321 - . .460. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .140
1832: . . 461 - . .600. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .140
1833: . . 601 - . .750. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .150
1834: . . 751 - . .900. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .150
1835: . . 901 - .1060. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180. .*2. .Aug-move to 316 High Holborn
1836: ..1061 - .1240. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180
1837: ..1241 - .1420. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180
1838: ..1421 - .1600. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180
1839: ..1601 - .1810. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 210
1840: ..1811 - .2040. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 230
1841: ..2041 - .2270. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 230
1842: ..2271 - .2500. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 230
1843: ..2501 - .2730. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 230
1844: ..2731 - .2960. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 230
1845: ..2961 - .3180. + 7000 - 7020 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .240
1846: ..3181 - .3330. + 7021 - 7130 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .260. .*3,*4
1847: ..3331 - .3350. + 7131 - 7230. + 8350 - 8480 - . . . . .250. .*5,*6. .**1. 7201. .Mar-move to 502 New Oxford St.
1848: ..8481 - .8640. + 7231 - 7330. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 270
1849: ..8641 - .8800. + 7331 - 7440. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
1850: ..8801 - .8960. + 7441 - 7540. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 290
1851: ..8961 - .9130. + 7541 - 7640. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 290
1852: ..9131 - .9300. + 7641 - 7740. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 290
1853: ..9301 - .9490. + 7741 - 7830. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 290
1854: ..9491 - .9680. + 7831 - 7930. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 290
1855: ..9681 - .9870. + 7931 - 8030. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 290
1856: ..9871- 10170. + 8031 - 8130. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400. . . . ..**2. many orders after Paris. .**3. 10054
1857: 10171 - 10510. + 8131 - 8200. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 410. .*7
1858: 10511 - 10930. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 420. .*8 . .**4. 10655. .**5. 10782. .**6. 10811. .Aug - 315 Oxford St. opened
1859: 10931 - 11340. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430. .*9. .**7. 11227. .Oct - Name change to EM Reilly & Co.
1860: 11341 - 11770. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430. . . . .**8. 11716
1861: 11771 - 12210. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430
1862: 12211 - 12740. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430. . . . .**9. 12532
1863: 12741 - 13170. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430
1864: 13171 - 13600. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430. . . . .**10. 13333
1865: 13601 - 14030. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430
1866: 14031 - 14460. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430
1867: 14461 - 14910. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 450
1868: 14911 - 15510. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600. .*10 . .Feb-2 rue Scribe opened
1869: 15511 - 16110. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
1870: 16111 - 16710. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
1871: 16711 - 17310. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
1872: 17311 - 17910. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600. . . . .**11. 17314
1873: 17911 - 18510. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
1874: 18511 - 19140. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 630
1875: 19141 - 19780. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 640. . . . .**12. 19286
1876: 19781 - 20430. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 650
1877: 20431 - 21080. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 650. . . . .**13. 20623
1878: 21081 - 21730. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 650
1879: 21731 - 22380. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 650
1880: 22381 - 22930. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 650
1881: 22931 - 23630. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 800. .*11. **14. 23536. .**15. 23574. .Nov-Oxford St. renumbered
1882: 23631 - 24680. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1050. . . . .**16. 24534
1883: 24681 - 25730. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1050
1884: 25731 - 26780. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1050
1885: 26781 - 27820. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1040. .*12. .July-2 rue Scribe closed
1886: 27821 - 28720. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 900
1887: 28721 - 29520. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 800
1888: 29521 - 30300. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 780
1889: 30301 - 31000. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 700. . . . .**17. 30768
1890: 31001 - 31680. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 680
1891: 31681 - 32280. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
1892: 32281 - 32830. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 550
1893: 32831 - 33280. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 450
1894: 33281 - 33720. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 440
1895: 33721 - 34150. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430
1896: 34151 - 34670. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 420
1897: 34671 - 34920. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 250. .*13. .May-16 New Oxford St. closed
1898: 34921 - 35080. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 160
1899: 35081 - 35180. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100
1900: 35181 - 35250. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70. . . . .**18. 35186
1901: 35251 - 35300. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50
1902: 35301 - 35350. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50
1903: 35351 - 35400. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50. .*14. .March-Move to 295 Oxford St.
1904: 35401 - 35450. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50
1905: 35451 - 35500. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50
1906: 35501 - 35535. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35
1907: 35536 - 35565. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30. . . . .**19. 35554
1908: 35566 - 35595. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30
1909: 35596 - 35625. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30
1910: 35626 - 35655. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30
1911: 35656 - 35685. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30
1912: 35686 - 35700. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15. .*15. .June-Bankrupt; vacate 295 Oxford St

Post Aug 1922 - ? 130000 - 150000. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . .20,000?. . *16

==================== Footnotes ====================

Methodology
-- Reilly serial numbered some 33,000 guns from c1825-1912. The chart is based on an analysis of over 380 surviving Reilly serial numbered guns and thousands of articles about and advertisements for Reilly in 19th century print media. However, the chart is modified as additional guns/into come to light.
-- The chart is designed to allow a Reilly owner to date his gun within a few months of its being serial numbered; it is more accurate from 1855 to 1905 due to the number of surviving guns.

Caveats:
-- Reilly did not serial number guns he did not make.
-- When 001 was numbered or if there were a 001 is unknown; Summer 1828 was chosen as a start date because of newspaper ads. Reilly was NOT on a list of London gunmakers published in 1825. The first existing gun is SN
162.
-- Reilly originally serial numbered pistols; that ended circa 1837.
-- The number of guns numbered per year are estimates based on date markers - the addresses on the ribs/barrels based on specific events such as moves to new addresses or change in address numbers which are historically proven. Obviously numbers actually made each year varied. The curve has been smoothed as much as possible to eliminate wild swings and verified by
sanity checks."
-- There is a huge uptick in numbers in 1881-82. Reilly apparently made the business decision to stock guns and sell ready-made/off-the-rack. If so he may have numbered them when sold, accounting for some discrepancies. His bespoke guns were probably numbered when ordered per general London practice
-- Patent numbers or patent use numbers on guns can help date a gun; 1) but many guns were modified/up-graded; 2) patent use numbers were rarely chronological. Manufacturers bought blocs of numbers in some cases. 3) Almost all pin-fires, the dominant SxS from the 1850's to about 1872 were modified to center fire. Ditto for non-rebounding hammers. 4)In addition the relationship of patent use numbers to gun Serial Number cannot be ascertained easily. For instance Henry patent rifling would be stamped on tubes - but when these tubes were stamped in relationship to when the serial number for the gun was entered on the books is not clear. 5) So patent numbers and patent use numbers can be sanity checks but no proof of date of manufacture. (example: SN
30768. A&D Boxlock patent number 8245. The SN dates the gun to late summer 1889. The A&D patent expired September 1889. No A&D use number should be on a gun after that date.)
-- Reilly prided himself on delivering bespoke guns in 1-3 months vice the 2-3 years of other makers. The guns would have been serial-numbered upon order. However, the SN chronology is based on rib/barrel-addresses from 15 or so key date-marker guns. These addresses would have been engraved and the ribs/barrels blacked/browned shortly before delivery. Thus serial numbers may precede the rib-addresses by several months.


*Marker Footnotes
*1 - Summer 1828 - Chosen as the start date for Reilly making guns. Reilly was NOT mentioned in an 1825 list of London gun-makers. Reilly was never a Freeman of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers. The first ad in the London newspapers specifically for Reilly made guns so far found is in 1830. However, a July 1828 ad is pretty clear that he was selling guns made by him. Likewise, 001 is chosen as the number of the first gun though it could have been "100." 1st extant SN'd gun is 162. Address was 12 Middle Row; Address on ribs is "Holborn Bars."
*2 - Late Aug 1835 - Reilly moved to 316 High Holborn; 1st SN'd gun with High Holborn is 1024
*3 - Late 1845/early 1846 - JC Reilly appears to have split his main-line serial numbers with a series he kept for himself beginning around 7000. SN 7023 is the first of these with JC Reilly on the rib but still with the High Holborn address.
*4 - Last main-line SN with High Holborn on the rib is 3329.
*5 - Late March 1847 - Reilly moved to 502 New Oxford Street. The main line SN series was bumped up 5000 numbers; 1st SN'd gun with 502 along with "removed from Holborn" is 8378. (Note: This is a hypothesis since this gun was advertised as "8578," a number which another gun already carries. This gun is a J.C. Reilly SxS gun with the New Oxford St. address and "Removed from Holborn" on the label. (Reilly used the phrase �removed from Holborn� in his advertisements from early April 1847 to late November 1847; by December 1847 it had vanished).
*6 - First JC Reilly 7000 series with 502 Oxford is 7201 which also has "removed from Holborn" on the label.
*7 - early September 1857: JC retired; the last extant SN in the JC Reilly "7000" series (with "Veni, Vidi, Vici" on the rib) is 8186.
*8 - Circa 01 August 1858 - 315 Oxford Street opened . The company may have used the name "Reilly & Co., for a short while from this time to October 1859. The first gun with "Oxford St." and "Reilly & Co." is 10811 dated per the chart Fall 1858.
*9 - October 1859 - The company name changed definitively to E.M. Reilly & Co.; The 1st extant SN'd gun with EM Reilly on the rib is 11227.
*10 - mid Feb 1868 - Reilly opened 2 rue Scribe Paris; 1st extant SN'd gun with rue Scribe on the rib is 14983.
*11 - Nov 1881 - Oxford Street was renumbered; 1st extant Reilly with 277 Oxford street (or 16 New Oxford St.) on the rib is 23536.
*12 - July 1885 - Reilly closed rue Scribe; last extant Reilly with "rue Scribe" on the rib is 27340. *(Note: There are 3 later guns SN 27533, 27570 and 27854 with "Paris" on their barrels. All three have Whitworth steel barrels and are built on Scott Climax triplex actions. I've chosen not to use these as the end marker for rue Scribe, at least not yet; Reilly at this time was selling both off-the-rack/ready-made guns and bespoke guns made-to-order and I believe these may have been already engraved and sitting in the shop, but not numbered until sold. This is a subjective judgement of course. Additional serial numbers may change this.)
*13 - May 1897 - Reilly closed 16 (502) New Oxford Street. Last extant SN'd gun with 16 New Oxford Street on the rib is 34723.
*14 - March 1903 - Reilly moved from 277 Oxford St. to 295 Oxford st. First extant gun with 295 on the rib is 35422
*15 - June 8, 1912 - Reilly declared bankruptcy. Last extant SN'd gun is 35678. Bert Reilly subsequently opened a small gun shop at 13 High Street, Marylebone as "E.M Reilly & Co.", which lasted to about 1918-early 1919; no guns with this address on ribs have been found, no advertisements for it exist.
*16 - August 1922 - (date confirmed-per newspaper advertisements) the Reilly name was bought by Charles Riggs. The name/address on the ribs was "EM Reilly & Co., London." Riggs' had historical connections to BSA - however, some believe his guns were built by Osborn/Midland. The serial numbers became 6 digits apparently beginning around 130000 - The first extant Riggs-Reilly so far found is 133805; the last is 150570. How many of these "Reilly" Riggs guns were produced or how Riggs' numbering system actually worked is not clear. In addition to 6 digit serial numbers most "Riggs-Reilly's" had "Prince of Wales" stocks. The original Reilly's never had this stock (as far a current research goes).

Sanity Checks:
**1. - 7201 would have been serial numbered in late summer-fall 1847. It has the 502 New Oxford St. address (post 23 March 1847) and the label "removed from Holborn" (which existed from April 1847 through November 1847.
**2. - After his triumph at Paris in 1855 - "all guns were sold and many orders booked." The increase in production by 200 guns for 1856 reflects this.
**3. 10054 - Earliest 1858 Reilly center-break, pin-fire gun found dated to Fall 1856 per the chart. Post 1855 label; Matching the earliest Reilly advertisement known for Fusils a Bascule which appeared in the London newspapers on 04 October 1856.
**4. 10655 - Early 1858 Reilly pinfire on the Lefaucheux principle; No one in UK could have made that gun for Reilly other than Lang or possibly Blanch; �The Field� mentioned at this time that Reilly along with Blanch and Lang were �overdone with orders� for breech loaders, likely the reason that in Aug 1858 he opened "the Manufactory" at "Arsenal House," 315 Oxford Street - to satisfy this demand.
**5. 10782 - He began making under license Prince Patent breech loaders soon after the Patent, probably as early as 1857. The gun was serial numbered in early Fall 1858 - 1st Prince Patent gun.
**6. 10811 This Prince patent gun is dated to Autumn 1858. It has "Reilly & Co. Oxford Street, London" on the barrel. "Oxford St" would indicate it were made at 315 Oxford St. opened first week of August 1858. "Reilly & Co., apparently was used from this time August 1858 to Fall 1859. (There are no pictures to confirm the Christies advertisement). 1st extant gun completed at 315 Oxford St.
**7. 11227 - Reilly began using "E.M. Reilly & Co." in Sep-Oct 1859. 11227 is the first extant gun with "E.M. Reilly & Co" on the gun rib and would be dated in Autumn 1859 per the chart.
**8. 11716 - Reilly .577 Enfield given as a prize Christmas 1860 per an inscription on the gun; The chart has the gun being numbered in late November, early December 1860.
**9. 12532 - In 1862 the London Exposition ran from late May to September. His exhibit included a gold washed muzzle-loader shotgun, much commented on at the time, which may still exist. If this is the exposition gun the chart has it being numbered around July 1862 rather than the start of the exposition in May. However, the article describing it was written in September 1862, validating the date chart.
**10. 13333 - Reilly obtained manufacturing rights to the Green Bros Breech loader and per a post on this board began to manufacture them about Apr-May 1864. This gun was number 23...The chart has it being numbered about May 1864.
**11. 17314 - The Martini-Henry was formally adopted (though still being trialed) in summer 1871. The first Reilly advertisement for Martini-Henry's appeared in November 1871. The chart has 17314 being numbered in early Jan 1872.
**12. 19286. The below comment about 19286 was posted on a knowledgeable UK board. The chart has 19286 as being numbered in early 1875 - at the time the UK board was still struggling with the wide-spread disinformation that Reilly had closed rue Scribe in 1872:
. . . . . . ."The action flats have the expected View mark, and they have the H Walker patent mark for his barrel bolting and safety for drop-down actions patent No 455 of 12 February 1872 ( Use No. 1098 ) .
. . . . . . ."Of equal importance to the marks are the ones that don't appear e.g. no NOT FOR BALL or CHOKE mark. The first of these was introduced in 1875, so this and the patent date mean the gun was made definitely not before Feb 72, or after 1875. "It must have been made a couple of years after 1872, say 1874 to early 1875, and we favour the latter because even if the gun was made by a large trade maker, the 1098 use number is quite a large number."

**13. 20623. Purdey patent 1104 use #4928, the last Reilly with a Pat 1104 use #. The Purdey patent expired 01 May 1877. This gun is dated per the chart circa April 1877.
**14. 23536. Oxford Street was renumbered in November 1881. 23536 is the first extant gun with the new numbers on the rib. The chart would date it to mid-November 1881.
**15. 23574. 1882 Hurlingham rules weight limit for pigeon guns was fixed at 8 lbs. This pigeon gun built in late 1881 for the new upcoming season weighs 8 lbs..
**16. 24534. 1883 Hurlingham rules weight limit for pigeon guns was changed to 7 lbs 8 oz. This pigeon gun built in late 1882 for the new rules weighs 7 lbs 8 oz.
**17. 30768. A&D Boxlock patent number 8245. The SN dates the gun to late summer 1889. The A&D patent expired in September 1889
**18. 35186 - Dated on the chart as 1901; it has a post-1898 trade label and London 1896-1904 proof marks
**19. 35554. Reilly double rifle chambered for .500/.465 with 295 Oxford St. address on the barrels. The chart dates it as late 1907. This cartridge was introduced by Holland & Holland in 1907.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
===========================================================
A second pre 1881 outlier label


Trade labels and making sense of them is truly Quixotic. But, I thought I'd gotten a pretty good handle on Reilly trade labels...see the chart on p.44. But again exception rears its head.

This is a label from Reilly .450 BPE SxS rifle SN 21369 (Serial numbered in 1878 per the chart). It is from 315 Oxford Street. It has floral capitals which more resemble those from UK gun labels in the 1890's (see previous posts). I'd normally dismiss it as a reproduction (the case has been "reconditioned") except for the scolloped corners...and it's never been seen on reproduction sites.



It is very similar to this label which came in a case for SN 10354, a Reilly muzzle loader from 1857, transformed per records into a center-break breech-loader in allegedly 1895-1904 (per the consigner - pictured and discussed before). But it has "502 New Oxford Street" address...pre-1885 for sure and possibly pre 1882 (address changed in Nov 1881 - labels did not catch up for a couple of years but there are not that many to reference).



So what to make of these two labels? One can call them "outlier" (for one), get away with calling them "outliers" (for two)(but from two different workshops?). If a third appears...reevaluation.
===========================================================
Colonel Jacob's patent rifles





Readers of Reilly advertisements on this line will note advertisements for "Colonel Jacob's" rifles from about 1858 - 1863 including advertising those that could fire "explosive shells". I've never seen a Reilly made Colonel Jacob's rifle...but the history of it is incredible as is the history of Col. Jacobs himself....the first time I went up into Baluchistan I got off the train in Jacobabad (technically Punjab..but Baluch to the core - or possibly with a goodly number of Saraiki speakers).

Here's an advertisement from the 1858 Anglo-Indian Almanack: (That book went to press in 1857 - and you'll also note the advertisement for his center-break guns):


Here is a description of his rifle:






You can read info on Wikipedia here on this amazing man:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jacob_(East_India_Company_officer)


But here is the key part of it....if anyone has a Reilly made Col. Jacob's rifle, would love to see it:

As a Military Engineer[edit]
He wrote many pamphlets which were critical of the Indian Army as it then was, and got him into much trouble with the Government in London. He was a scientist and inventor, developing an exploding bullet,[6] or shell, that fired combustibles up to 6 miles (9.7 km).He believed this would revolutionize the art of war. Two good riflemen could, in his opinion, annihilate the best battery of field artillery in 10 minutes. Further experiments made it possible to fire shells up to a range of 14 miles. More importantly, he designed a four grooved rifle and had various experimental guns manufactured in London by leading gunsmiths, and at his expense.. (Several internet courses say he seemed to favor Manton or George Daw to build his ideas from 1846 on...but the records are not complete).


Sind plains in that area or the bare scalding mountains to its west, provide plenty of reasons why Jacobs wanted to be able to hit targets at 2000 yards.

And by the way....it again shows the willingness of Reilly to push the envelop at this time....he went after innovation - he may not have created it himself - but he surely recognized it, made it and marketed it. He had no fear of the "establishment" because he wasn't part of it.
=========================================================================================
Arsenal and the Martini-Henry.


I've added this to the Reilly history:

As an aside, the history of Reilly building Martini-Henry rifles/actions is instructive. He first advertised a "Henry-Martini" in 1871 (it was adopted for trial in summer 1871). There is one Reilly Martini-Henry with a SN dated to Jan 1872 (SN 17314). There are many extant Reilly-made Martini-Henry's afterwards, in a half-dozen calibers, none with serial numbers. It seems that at the time Arsenal, if one wanted to build a M-H rifle, would insist on sending over the parts. Reilly, it appears, did not serial number assembled guns.

The first and only serial number Reilly in my database is 17314...dated per the chart to January 1872:
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/8720/E-M-Reilly-Martini#.VrgJC3hQoqY



1st advertisement for a "Henri-Martini" - 1871 "Black's Cornwell Guide".


First ad for a "Martini-Henry" - 25 December 1871, "The Graphic":


I did some research into the topic about three years ago. I've never found another serial numbered Reilly M-H after that first one. But there are a lot around...one in caliber .75 - a real elephant gun:

Here is an example:
https://www.gunsamerica.com/999425841/Martini-E-M-Reilly-577-45.htm


Greener and others made a lot of Martini-Henry guns. Did they serial number these guns? Reilly SN'd a lot of his Enfields (those built for the yeomanry militia might be excepted) but I early on read that the Arsenal became really b**chy with the M-H (and one must wonder if this were the reason the Henry rifling patent was extended from another 14 years). Observations/comments much appreciated. Thanks.


Many makers made them without many marks at all. I don't recall that this one had a SSN, but it certainly did not have a maker's mark either. Just a patent stamp.



=========================================================================================
Changing date of occupancy of 315 Oxford St. from January 1859 to 01 August 1858


In looking to try to determine when London gunmakers actually began to advertise center-break breech-loaders in the newspapers, some interesting data turned up. So far it looks like H.Holland and Reilly were the earliest, Sep-Oct 1856 (and the Holland advertisement might relate to a needle gun, making Reilly the earliest to actually advertise in "The Field" for a center-break breech loader). See Stephen Nash's separate pinfire line:

But in the process a search of the UK newspaper database - https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk -was done again, after a couple of years of non-subscription, for Reilly in 1858-59. Millions of pages have been added and new advertisements have been posted. As a result, the date of occupancy of 315 Oxford Street (with the fifty yards shooting gallery) by Reilly has been moved back 6 months from mid-January 1859 to 01 August 1858.

Top: . . . . . . .24 July 1858, "The Field."
Bottom:. . . .07 Aug 1858, "The Field."



The history will be updated shortly. The Serial Number chronology may not need much modification; the new date for occupying 315 Oxford St. sure makes the Prince Patent SN 10811, with "Oxford Street" on the Rib, dated Fall 1858, now totally logical. And this even earlier occupancy of "The Manufactory" to surging orders for breech-loaders pushes back the date of systematic and sustained production of said. This change, however may effect the chronology of the case/trade labels - it's time to update that post in any event.

(Edit: History and Chronologies have been edited).
==================================================================
Reilly 14983 and the Lancaster "Base Fire" action


Stephen Nash's incredibly interesting historical line on the early origin of pin-fires,
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD
led to a review of some 1860's Reilly's. The most interesting of all perhaps is 12boreman's 8 bore Reilly SxS shotgun, SN 14983, with both "New Oxford Street" and "Rue Scribe Paris" on the rib...the earliest extant Reilly with both the London and Paris addresses..making it serial-numbered surely circa February-March 1868. See P.16 in this line.

The key parts of the gun are the unique hammers and center-fire system:


In Diggory Hadoke's Vintagegunjournal on-line, there is this article about Lancaster:
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/ace-of-base-fire

The article discusses the well-known Lancaster "base fire" center-break, breech-loading system from the late 1850's, and the failure of a superior design because of greed - he wanted to monopolize the sale of cartridges for his system.

Take a look at the "base-fire" Lancaster system. Does that not look something like the action on 12boreman's 8 bore Reilly made in 1868?



12boreman's gun is surely unique...a Lancaster "base-fire" design turned into a center-fire. What an interesting time in the history of gun-making.

And everyone supposes that with the Daw center-fire patent of 1861 (from the Frenchman Pottet), or even more significantly the
.. 1) 1865 breaking of the Daw center-fire ammunition patent by Eley, and
.. 2) the 1866 revolutionary cartridge/shell primers introduced by American Berdan and a few months later by Edward Mounier Boxer in UK,
. that center-fires just immediately took over the market. Not so. Pin fires continued to dominate up to about 1872.

====================================================================
Cyril Adams' comment on the Reilly history


Another of Cyril Adams' Reilly pigeon guns was just advertised on Gunsinternational, the 4th such gun I've seen. I sent the advertiser a note about the dating of the gun and a copy of the Reilly history. I've just received this email from Mr. Adams himself:

On Sunday, July 19, 2020, 3:07:29 PM EDT, Cyril Adams wrote:

Mr. Williams:
Thank you for your exhaustive and well-written history of REILLY. You have produced a much-needed work which will be studied by students of English Guns and Rifles for both knowledge and pleasure.
Good job, Mr. Williams ..........Cyril Adams


This is the ultimate flattery...Cyril Adams is a legendary shot and an acknowledged expert on English SxS's. And from my communication with him he is a gracious, consummate gentleman of the old school.

------------------------------------------
Here are the four Reilly's in my database used by Mr. Adams....some discussed before - I believe the first two were his shooting guns; the latter two were guns he restored:

23574 - No mention of name. 12 bore; Shotgun SxS; Side lever, Pigeon gun, third bite, hammer gun. Cyril Adams gun with steel barrels and Briley chokes...Weight 8 lbs built by Reilly in late Fall 1881 for the 1882 season Hurlingham specs for pigeon guns - weight limited to 8 lbs.


24534 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS Shotgun pigeon gun; top lever, hammer gun. Use by Cyril Adams; steel barrels, Briley chokes, weight 7lbs 8ozs built in Fall 1882 for the 1883 pigeon shooting season to the new Hurlingham rules limiting pigeon guns to 7lbs 8oz.


25519 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford St & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore SxS shotgun. Top lever, BLNE. A&D use #3976 Used by Mr. Cyril Adams. weight 7lbs 6oz, Damascus barrels, concave rib...Just offered for sale on Gunsinternational: https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101480055


33922 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12ga. Shotgun SxS side lock ejector. A Cyril Adams gun.


===========================================================
An slight hiccup with Internet Gun Club


In June I posted the history of Reilly on the Internet Gun Club forum. I recently subscribed to the site for a year and discovered a disappointing reply implying my "history" had been plagiarized from the Internet Gun Club history of Reilly written in 2002 which was "copyrighted."

The IGC history is ok...I had never read it before except a version posted on a UK internet help site. However, it has 20 errors in it, many of them major. The important point in the IGC history, however is that it also concluded, as I did independently, that Reilly only serial numbered guns he made.

Which means of course that IGC experts were convinced in 2002 that Reilly made his own guns. .

The disappointing aspect of this academic kerfuffle, besides the scurrilous allegation, is that the gun scholars on IGC (there is a tremendous amount of scholarly information on the site) let disinformation about Reilly be disseminated for 18 years by historians, writers, auction houses, without challenging it, or without challenging the texts of Boothroyd, etc.

Sorry for the venting (and it's admittedly petty)...but the allegation rankled.

(Heck, the passive inaction on Reilly rankles...why have expertise if it's squirreled away and nobody says anything? I've been emailing auction houses, museums, gun dealers, gun writers, magazines . . .for two years and fighting off yobs at the same time)
========================================================================================
UK gun maker Reuben Hambling allegedly worked for EM Reilly in mid 1880"s


Returning to the IGC, on Stephen Nash's amazing line on pin-fire game guns, there was this statement from the IGC history of gun-maker Reuben Hambling:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=576169#Post576169

"As there is both a New Bailey Street and a New Bexley Street, there is no way of knowing if the paper made an error, or if Reuben Hambling moved from one location to another. He didn’t stay long in Manchester and later worked for E. M. Reilly & Co. in London, and finally in Ashford, in Kent. Reuben Hambling died in 1891."

There is no footnoting to the IGC history. However, London postal records record Reuben Hambling as living in Paddington, London from 1884-86, less than a mile from Reilly's 315 Oxford Street work-shop. The question has been asked, "who worked for Reilly." Names are slowly being filled in. (I'll try to get the reference to the above IGC post). Whatever, if Reuben Hambling worked for Reilly, it's unlikely he was just polishing counter tops.

Voting records for Paddington, London 1884-85, Reuben Hambling:


And by the way, the 1861 census lists him as a gun-maker living in Middlesex, London, age 20, married to Mary A; born in Blarkent, Devon.. Wouldn't be surprised to find he worked for Reilly at that time:
===============================================================
SN 10641 - Possibly now the oldest extant Reilly center-break gun (to be confirmed)


Yesterday through Diggory Hadoke, I was contacted by an American gunsmith Dan Hopping of Raleigh, NC who is evaluating a collection owned by Mr. Landon Watts, of Raleigh. Amongst them is a Reilly hammer gun SN 10641.
-- The gun was originally a pin-fire converted to center fire (firing pins missing). It apparently is a Lefaucheux-Lang style single bite receiver. The under-lever appears to be in the Beringer under-the-trigger-guard style.
-- 28" Damascus barrels (barrels may have been cut back 2"? 13 & 14 bore (on the barrels) - probably 12 bore chambers but not yet measured; chambered for 2 1/2" shells;
-- "S. Breeden" is on the action (a name he has previously found on a 1850's Westley-Richards.)
-- highly-engraved,
-- excellent stock

The serial number is found on the forearm, the water-table, the locks, and along the tang behind the trigger guard (the last quite worn). This gun is 14 serial numbers earlier than the New Zealand gun SN 10655 and like the New Zealand gun also probably numbered in March 1858.

There are difficulties for the chronology.

1) The name/address on the rib and action is "E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London.". "E.M. Reilly & Co," to my knowledge did not begin to be used until October 1859 - the name should have been "Reilly", "Reilly & Co." or (like 10655) simply "E.M. Reilly."

2). The barrel has Birmingham proofs dated to the 1850's (NFI). No serial numbered Reilly with original barrels has Brum proofs to my knowledge. Edit: 13132 - Terry's Patent gun - dated per chart late 1863 (see previous post) has Birmingham proof mark.

3) There is a name on the water-table/action flats
"S.Breeden"...apparently the action maker.

Following are pictures of the gun. This gun is obviously a difficult one to put into the date-chart. If someone could analyze the action, it might shed some light on it. (I'm wondering if it were one of those guns modified extensively? E.M Reilly & Co,. should not be there on that serial number - unless maybe it were a muzzle loader modified later to a break-action gun with new stock, engraving and rib....a lot to speculate about). And am very curious about the Brum proofs. (about the only explanation I can come up with is the gun was sitting around for a couple of years...a guy needed a gun, so Reilly put the number on an engraved the rib and side plates on an outsourced gun - I'd bet UK gunsmiths could come up with all sorts or reasons a March 1858 SN suddenly appearing on an 1860 gun...








If that action were indeed made in Birmingham in March 1858, it's a lot earlier than any analysis done on center-break Birmingham guns. My feeling is it's an 1860 gun...and the SN somehow got on there. To be further investigated.
============================================================================================================
1867 Reilly/Purdey dust-up


This post is to address a story (reported by several authors) about Reilly and Purdey dating from around the time of the Paris Universelle in 1867, where Reilly won the show (and his cockiness was running at full throttle).

“In 1866 (James Purdey) had a lively correspondence with Mr. E.M. Reilly, Gun Manufacturer, of 502 New Oxford Street, who was alleged to have told a customer that Purdey farmed out their guns to him (Reilly) to build.” (Purdey’s: The Guns and The Family by Richard Beaumont)

Purdey responded with a letter, “A gentleman was in your shop in Oxford Street and was shown two guns both of which were representated as being made by you. The price of one was 20Ł the other 40 guineas and the difference in price was accounted for by the person who showed them saying that ‘one had been proved and stamped by Purdey for which you had to pay him. Now as you know that the foregoing statement is not only perfecty untrue, but malicious and injurious to my trade and reputation, I must request that you will give me an explanation..”

This above quote is from Donald Dallas’ book but is excerpted from John Cambell’s DGJ article in Spring 2015. The letter was also mentioned to me in an email from Purdey historian Dr. Nick Harlow. John in his article has some analysis that ultimately comes down to explaining the bruhaha as a misunderstanding dealing in patent payments. (The other articles mentioning this confrontation usually assumed Reilly did not build guns, only marketed them and thus concentrated on who might have built that pin-fire....and pin-fire it almost certainly was at that date...and the chain of patent payments, etc.).

However, based on research above, here is another take:

1) It’s possible that Reilly was making guns in the white for the trade in the 1860’s…he had 5 major streams of revenue coming into the company; and two large workshops. He was making 1000 Green Brothers breech loaders a year at the time in addition to his serial numbered guns, etc. There are several reports that he was making for the trade at the time.

2). Reilly was perfectly capable of making such claims about Purdey guns, whether true or not, and in fact gloried in undercutting “the establishment.” Here is part of that awful poem from this time period which says exactly what Purdey claimed the salesman told the customer – i.e. the Reilly guns were “exactly the same” (as the expensive stuff).

A place-beyond all we in London know
To Messrs. E.M. Reilly & Co.
What other houses charge sixty-five pounds
For, and keep you four or five months (which astounds),
In waiting for; one exactly the same
For which only Ł45 they claim —
Having it ready too in thirty days
Or less, for which they merit highest praise
Exactly the same I’ve already said
The Gun shall be, by my Art-Heroes made,

Good story. My understanding is that if a gun was built to another maker's patent, it would either involve purchasing the action in the white from the patent holder, or building it and then having the patent holder inspect the action and grant/apply a patent use number. I've always wondered how this would work in practice, and what payments would be made for such an inspection.

For instance, if Reilly built a gun using Purdey's double-bite snap-action design, would it require Purdey inspecting the action for the approval, and presumably the added royalty/inspection cost would ultimately be paid by the Reilly client? I'm also presuming that a Reilly-built Purdey-patent gun would be cheaper than buying the same pattern gun from Purdey's.

I can see how having a desirable patent could earn the holder good money, and this fuelled the rush of breech-loader designs in the 1850s and 1860s in particular.
==========================================================================================================
10641 - a second look


Re the name on the action "S.Breeden":

He is likely identical to Samuel Breeden alt. spelling Breedon:
Born in 04 May 1813. Saltey Washwood, Aston area of Birmingham, Warwickshire where lived his whole life. Believe his Father was William Breeden and Mother Mary Breeden
-- 17 Aug 1834 - Married Charlotte Lynol
-- 1849 listed in Birmingham Directory in Saltey Washwood as a “Gun Furniture Manufactuer”
-- 1851 Census – born in Shifnal, Shropshire, England, Saltley Washwood. Married to Charlottte. Son William, Margaret, Charlotte, Emma. Occupation listed as “gun furniture maker; trigger maker(? unclear).”

-- 1853 notice that Samuel Breedon of Washwood Heath, “gun furniture and revolving pistol maker” took on an apprentice named Thomas Spencer (the younger) of Washwood Heath.

-- 1855 listed in Birmingham Directory in Saltey Washwood as a “pistol and rifle sight maker”
-- 1861 Census. Living in Saltey Washwood area. Wife Charlotte. 3 daughters Emma, Charlotte, Luisa. Occupation listed as “Breech Loading action manufacturer and master employing 8 men”

-- 1862 listed in Birmingham directory as a “Gun Furniture maker” located at Washwood heath

-- 1862 listed in Birmingham directory as living on Washwood heath
-- 1862 listed in Slater’s Royal National Commercial Directory under “Gun, Rifle and Pistol Makers” as “Breech loading” located on Washwood heath.
-- 2 July 1865 Samuel Breeden died. William Hill of Birchfield (gun maker) and John Dennison of Birmingham (Confectioner) were executers of the will. His effects were worth under Ł 100. He was buried on 9 Jul 1865.

So as of the 1861 census (in April) Breeden was indeed making breech loading actions. He must have been one of the first in Birmingham to do this.

From Stephen Nash's pin-fire line, Stephen comments that the gun is an early UK Beringer type under-lever. The fences are relatively shallow:
The under-lever is filled-in in front of the trigger guard which is unusual.

However, there is a drawing of a Reilly in a book published in early 1860 of a similar under-lever with that space filled-in - the sketch probably as made shortly after the July 1859 "The Field" trials...note the name on the sketch "Reilly & Co.":


My opinion: This serial numbered Reilly was not made by him...and is the exception to the rule that Reilly Reilly only serial numbered guns he made.
-- The Barrels are proofed in Birmingham
-- The action is from a Birmingham action maker.
I do believe Reilly engraved the gun (very familiar style), and stocked it (very familiar wood used). It also is an early pin-fire but not from March 1858 which the serial number would date it to- more likely dated to early 1860 or 1861... that would explain it having "E.M. Reilly & Co." (It would help to have more information on when exactly Breeden began to make breech-loader pin-fire actions. The 1861 Census is the earliest hard evidence available).
-- If anyone has more information on the introduction of breech-loading action manufacturing in Birmingham and dates - help would be appreciated.

How the serial number got on it is a question and a mystery. Perhaps the gun were ordered, the serial number recorded, but payment never made in March 1858..or perhaps the buyer put a deposit down for a muzzle loader then changed his mind...then two years later the buyer came back and was given an assembled gun and the SN and rib name/address and the engraving finished off at that time.

Lots of scenarios but one just cannot place that gun being made in March 1858. That seems just too early for Birmingham pin-fire work. And it's certainly 18 months before the introduction of the name "E.M. Reilly & Co." (October 1859).




This will update the small format Reilly label chart on p.44 with current understanding of dates of the labels and occupancy of the buildings. The labels are not definitive, obviously, but can provide clues to help in dating guns.









[/URL]
Cool stuff. I enjoy seeing the trade labels pictured and analyzed.
=============================================================
1863 - Reilly and a "Royal Warrant"


Stephen Nash in his excellent line on pin-fires:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=574708&page=20
Made this comment:

"Royals set the trends and fashions in Victorian society, and gunmakers vied for royal appointments. Having a non-London maker obtain a royal patronage is unusual enough, and one doing so would make full use of this in their advertising � even after their patron�s death. Today we can look at such an instance, from a provincial gunmaker who was the favourite of Albert, [censored - come on man!] Victoria�s husband."

In the "New History of Reilly," the following statement is made:

"Throughout the 1860's Reilly guns were purchased by various members of the British royal family, usually to give as gifts to foreign dignitaries or persons who had done favors for the family. Reilly tried to obtain, but without success, a Royal Warrant as 'Gun Maker to the Royal Family'."

Because by chance there is a similar observation in the IGC history of Reilly, following are the reasons for the above deduction (totally independent of IGC "copyrights') - (previously posted about p. 18 but reiterated) - and unlike IGC, every statement in this "New History" has been footnoted - with interpretations which can be disputed in open debate.

In 1863, Reilly appeared to obsequiously solicit the favor of the Royal family by putting out huge gas stars on his store-front upon the marriage of the Prince of Wales in March 1863, and another similar event in November 1863.

11 Mar 1863,"London Daily News" (The whole London press was filled up with pages of reports on the illumination of the city in celebration) - Reilly advertised as "gun-makers to his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
16 Mar 1863, London Daily News:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

And again in November for some Royal birthday or something...this from the 10 November 1863 edition of the "London Evening News" advertising himself as "Gun Maker to the Royal Family":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Well, obviously this didn't sit well with the Royals..and in the 1860's the UK public was even more dedicated to the Royal family than it is now.

This article appeared in the 24 March 1863 edition of the "Morning Advertiser." Prince Albert, the consort of [censored - come on man!] Victoria died in 1861. "Prince Albert" thus refers to the Prince of Wales, who was sent abroad on a "tour" in 1862, including South Africa, because of his libido. In which case Reilly was claiming to be a gunmaker for the Royal Family based on their buy of Reilly guns to give as gifts.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Edit: This article refers to Prince Alfred, not Prince Albert. Prince Alfred was [censored - come on man!] Victoria's second son. He later became Duke of Edinburgh, Admiral of the Fleet, and ended his life as Duke of Saxe-Coburg. He also gave Reilly guns as presents when he visited India in 1870. Thus, have no idea why Reilly claimed to have been "gun-maker" for the Prince of Wales.

Prince Albert Edward in 1862, later Edward VII in May 1862 after his tour (a notorious bounder at the time - [censored - come on man!] Victoria blamed him for her husband's death - Flashman got him laid (though why he would need help is beyond me) according to the Flashman papers of George McDonald Faser):

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


Prince Albert [censored - come on man!] Consort in 1859. But he did well. 5 daughters - later queens of Russia, Romania, Prussia, etc.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Prince Alfred in 1862:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

This history of Reilly really has hinged on a few (or a lot) of newspapers articles and a good bit of interpretation. Never again after 1863 did Reilly try to say he was a gun-maker for the Royal family. Apparently this Irish Catholic upstart was slapped down and quickly. (And, one must admit that Reilly was not above using nefarious business tactics and trying to take a mile from an inch. For instance, it may be that Reilly's 1869 patent application for exploding rifle rounds was just a rip-off of Col. Jacob's 1856 invention).

Addendum: Prince Alfred gave gold washed Reilly as gifts in India during his visit in 1870 - much commented on in the April 1870 press...this from 16 April 1870 "Homeward Bound"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
=============================================================================
28861


Here's a mystery. 28861 is a 12 gauge, top lever, hammer shotgun, from 277 Oxford St., London, which I've had in the extant Reilly list for sometime. Choked cyl and 3/4. It dates per the chart above to early 1887 (should of had "not for ball" and other London stamps).
http://josephsvintageguns.com/gun-details.asp?gun=323

Going back to look at it again, there are a couple of odd things about it.
-- It has a semi-pistol grip stock. No Reilly shotgun before the Riggs era (1922) that I know had any sort of pistol grip. If this is correct, the gun had to have been a rifle before becoming a shotgun.
-- Yet it weighs 6lbs 8 oz...Reilly rifles in a substantial caliber weighed more. This is a shotgun weight.
-- It has its apparently original Damascus barrels, with serial number and address on the rib.
-- However, it has a string of modern post 2005 UK reproof marks - a Birmingham BNP, chambers marked in mm, etc. Apparently all the original proof marks have been ground off save for the SN.
-- But there is one proof mark which is odd - the Crown over an "R" - a Belgian proof mark for rifles.


Might this be an indication that the original barrels came from Belgium and were rifled? The barrels look original. The gun is not heavy. So why is that proof mark there?



Argo44:

Crown over R or R surmounted by a Crown is also a proofmark from the Little British Isles.

R(Script) - London
R(Block) - Birmingham


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Crown over R is the re-proof mark.
Originally Posted By: Argo44

-- But there is one proof mark which is odd - the Crown over an "R" - a Belgian proof mark for rifles.




This R is the Birmingham Reproof mark.

Joseph is a bud of Dig's

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Ah....I was twisting myself around an axle...ready to fly out to Ličge to delve into records. Thanks.

(dang it...I was going to have to eat Moules and Frites and drink Belgian beer and stuff). (And I'll have to modify the history again...never say "it never happened" in the gun world).
Save me a seat. Last time the German Planes, Trains & Automobiles failed me. Germans pride their-self on punctual time, but their rail infrastructure is a bit to be desired.

Lufthansa is always tardy & don't purchase a train ticket unless you see the train. Great advice given to me by the Baunhof empolyees.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Where do you wish to ride out the quarantine; at the Ličge proof facility or @ the Ferlach proof facility?



Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Graz is an excellent position with foremost accommodations where we could make an appointment with Mr. Neuberger to visit in Wien.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
===========================================================================================
4 bore guns marketed by Reilly - up for sale this week


This muzzle loader is for sale this September at Holt's (who will no longer answer my queries). It's a 1" gun (100 caliber = 4 gauge). No serial number. Reilly marketed it, he did not make it. Holt's claims it is circa 1855. It's not. It has the rue Scribe address so post Feb 1868. Date it around 1869 to be conservative.
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=A2020++++522+&refno=++145300




(Why not buy a canon instead?)

And this 4 bore muzzle loader has been discussed here before, left-hand restock with set trigger last sold at James Julia - now up for auction at Rock Island next week. No serial number - with E.M. Reilly & Co. - post October 1859, not built by Reilly, only engraved and marketed. (Reilly was advertising two groove belted ball rifles as early as 1848).
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...ercussion-rifle


And a 3rd "Reilly" 4bore on Guntrader.uk. No SN so Reilly didn't make it. Looks like London proof marks and some reproof marks as well.
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/reilly-em/hammer/04-gauge/single-hammer-200910143431002





Originally Posted By: Argo44

This muzzle loader is for sale this September at Holt's (who will no longer answer my queries).

I imagine Holt's has grown tired of your insane endlessness...to put it nicely.

You probably should just write a book with all your accumulated internet information...before you completely loose your mind over this.

Just an observation...
Gene,
Things are still no where near normal in the UK. I have been having a hard time getting information from my contact at Holt's, as well as having issues with other auction houses. Hopefully things get straightened out over time.
Steve
Thanks Steve. By the way I did hear back from Imperial War Museum. Their inventory expert is looking over the Reilly dating chart and will get back to me on the three Reilly's in their collection. They're are unsurprisingly a little jammed up with a back-log of requests and bequeaths.

And Frank, I am writing the pamphlet. It's slow going - I can write reports, short stories, I can tell stories. But to organize a book with all the investigative stuff I've done for fun here over the past 4 years is daunting. Fortunately there are a couple of well-known writers on this board who have offered to help. And Frank, nice to know you're out. Were you paroled, did you make bail or did you escape?
===================================================================================
SN 10054, 15 bore rifle; Fall 1856. Now earliest Reilly pin-fire.


Diggory Hadoke just sent this pin-fire advertisement to me - for sale tomorrow!!
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/...lot-5db8919b-07d2-4cd7-9c66-ac1700a8e2ff
It is a 15 bore rifle, serial number 10054, 30 inch Damascus barrels with 502 New Oxford Street London address, fixed sight and folding 100, 200 and 300 yard sights, figured chequered stock with plain silver escutcheon, case hardened back action locks and receiver decorated with scrollwork, fitted into mahogany case with maker's label, containing oil bottle, screwdriver, pouch with cleaning jags, and an empty cartridge pouch, as well as several incorrect size Joyce No.16 empty cartridges.

It is pin-fire, forward single bite under-lever in the Lang-Lefaucheux style.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

It has "Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London" on the rib. This is period correct for 1856 - the name didn't change to Reilly & Co., until August 1858.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

The label is the post 1855 label with the 1851 and 1855 World's exposition medals on it along with "Fusils ďż˝ bascule."
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

You'll note Sanskrit writing - obviously the gun was bought by an Indian maharajah - Really was selling a lot to India at the time and advertising as such (I'll try to get it translated):
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

The SN dates it on my chart to Fall 1856, just about the time when the first Reilly advertisement advertising "Fusils ďż˝ bascule" (so far found) appeared in the London Press.
04 Oct 1856, "Illustrated London News"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Amazing find!!History!! I don't think there are many earlier extant UK pin-fire center-break guns.
This is the new paragraph on 1856-59 Reilly pin-fire center-break guns in the History. It'll be edited in the future - but, as it stands it is evidence, very hard to refute, of Reilly building his own guns at the time:

Observation re "retailer" vs "gunmaker" from an analysis of 10054 and 10655:

-- In Fall 1856, there were virtually no outworkers in London who could have made 10054. Lang was making pin-fire Lefaucheux style breech loaders but not for the trade. Blanch claimed he made his first pin-fire breech-loader in 1856, this after traveling to Paris to buy a center-break, under-lever around trigger-guard, Berringer style pin-fire in late 1855 after the Paris Universelle and reverse engineering it. Reilly, thus was on his own when he obviously embarked on a similar path to that of Blanch in 1855 or possibly earlier to manufacture and sell the French invention.

-- Blanch explained in his later book, that at the time the change-over from muzzle-loaders entailed a massive alteration in the manufacturing processes for guns from a breech-plug to a lump, from locks to actions, etc. - this in the face of a very conservative clientele.

-- As for 10655, a Lefaucheux-style 12 bore SxS Shotgun pin-fire breech-loader, at the time it was numbered, early 1858, believe there were still very few gun-making firms or gun makers in general in all of UK that could have made it (and it's twins - submitted by Reilly for the March 1858 "The Field" breech-loader vs muzzle-loader trials) or portions of it - barrels, actions, etc.
. . . . - The two firms, who could possibly have made it, were Lang and Blanch (E.C. Hodges, the original designer of Lang's break-action gun, was making center-break actions, labeled with his name on the plate - not found on Reilly's). The first Birmingham-made center-break gun was still several years in the future.
. . . .- However, Lang and Blanch had orders aplenty themselves - they likely had no time to manufacture for "the trade." (Blanch’s first pin-fire is dated 1856; Haris Holland made his first breech loader in 1857 although he advertised them in Sep 1856; Boss in 1858; Purdey in late 1858 or early 1859, etc.)

-- Thus, the most logical conclusion is that both 10054 and 10655 were indeed made by Reilly as he has claimed - no one else could have done it for him.

-- (These two conclusions are per historical data currently available on the early origins of UK center-break pin-fires.)
AaronN has posted three Reilly ads and accruements on the Pin Fire line that may push the date of the first Reilly center-break pin-fire back to 1855, probably shortly after the awarding of medals at the 1855 Paris Exposition Universelle. Based on this I will alter the history back to my original speculation, that Reilly changed his labels shortly after the Paris Fair and at around that time offered Center-Break guns for sale. This may change yet again as more information comes to light. Thanks Aaron.

-- interesting that the earliest advertisements use "Fusils Bascule" leaving out the "ďż˝".

16 Aug 1856, "Law Times." - advertisement for "Fusils Bascule."
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

1856 Dod's Peerage, Baronetage and Knightage of Great Britain and Ireland; "Fusil ďż˝ Bascule." The volume was printed in 1856 (month not indicated); the forward written by Dod was dated 1856 (month not indicated) (unknown if it were the beginning or end of the year).
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

1855 headstamp on a Reilly, London pin-fire cartridge - made in UK or imported?
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
====================================================================================
27570 - 16 bore, top leaver allegedly with "Paris" on the rib.


One of Terry Buffum's guns, an attractive 16 bore top-lever with 30" Damascus barrels, weighing 5 lbs 5 oz, was sold in 2016 by Amoskeag. It allegedly had "E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London & Paris" on the rib per Amoskeag. The SN would date it to late 1885. However, per above Reilly' Paris shop at 2 rue Scribe closed around 01 August 1885. I asked Terry about this - he couldn't remember.



This gun along with the (un-matched pair 16ga & 12 ga) two Scott triplex actions 27853 #1 and 27854 #2 which also have simply "Paris" on their ribs, were anomolies in the SN dating chart. The last Reilly with rue Scribe on the rib is 27340 and is used as a marker for July 1885.

27570 is now in Cyril Adam's list of guns to be disposed of. It's been worked on a bit since its sale 4 years ago. I asked Sam Shiller to take a look at the rib. Here is the picture - it has no 'PARIS' on the rib or gun. Scratch that as an anomaly.

Consider it scratched.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Who actually ran Reilly's Paris' retail outlet; a nephew or the like?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Raimey, I don't know. I've mentioned a couple of times a Monsieur Poirat. In Sep 1871 he offered to sell to the new French Republic, on behalf of Reilly, 6000 Chassepot rifles (then in Birmingham - I had the actual Birmingham reference on the existence of these rifles but have misplaced it). The French Parliament asked too many questions, dithered about the commission, and the sale fell through. Reilly had already been prosecuted in Fall 1870 for sending shells to his rue Scribe address, violating Brit neutrality - he was probably pulling a fast one but didn't want deep-diving questions. (See the below article)

The next time I'm in Paris, I will try to track down tax records on the Reilly addresses and try to identify Poirat. The French graves registry is very complete - but using it is trying.

Neat incomplete info. So, what client would purchase a Reilly @ a Paris outlet?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Lots of Frenchmen - he was gun maker for Napoleon III:


======================================================================================
10128 - Reilly Lang/Lefaucheux forward under-lever pin fire - Dec 1856


Mark Crudgington has sent info on another early Reilly pin-fire, SN 10124. This would date to December 1856 per the chart. Address not mentioned; Water table, barrel flats, proof marks not pictured unfortunately. This is now the second oldest Reilly center-break thus far found. (look at the lines of that gun - does that not look like a greyhound or something? What a beautiful gun).

http://www.gavingardiner.com/BidCat...mp;category=&keyword=&offset=120
Reilly
A SCARCE 16-BORE PINFIRE HAMMER GUN, NO. 10128
30-inch damascus twist barrels with 2 1/2-inch chambers about cylinder borings, the rounded frame, back lock, hammers and forward pointing under lever with border and foliate scroll engraving and retaining traces of original hardening colour, the 14 1/2-inch figured stock with heel and toe plates, 6lb. 12oz., black powder proof, leather case with lift-out ammunition compartment. Sold for �500

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Very nice. And quite early for heel and toe plates, I think.
========================================================================================================
12543 - pin-fire


Mark Crudgington passed on this advertisement for a Reilly pin-fire from an 1979 Chrisie's catalog. It is a Lefaucheux-style, forward under-lever, and would date to 1861 per the chart. It has a vague Ličge proof mark on the barrel. But the barrel is 28", not a usual Reilly barrel length. Whether the barrel was imported from Ličge, whether it was a replacement, or whether the action came from Ličge as well cannot be known. No photos.

In 1861 there was another Reilly with odd proof marks, 10641 (nominally numbered in 1858 but surely post 1860) with Birmingham proofs and a Birmingham action maker's name.

We've long speculated about Brit gun-makers use of Ličge components in the 1850's. The UK use import mark could easily be ground off. But this is the only Reilly serial numbered gun found so far with a Ličge mark anywhere on it.

Note the "proof exemption 1860-65" mark...which should be something of a confirmation of the 1861 date on the chart.


============================================================================================
Veni, Vidi, Vici.

Diggory just published the Reilly dating chart - It is not as up to date as the one on p.48, and has no colors which help differentiate it, and didn't have enough room for all the footnotes. Nevertheless, it should be a help to the vintage gun community.

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/dating-your-reilly-gun-or-rifle
==============================================================================================
315 (277) Oxford Street - a multitude of Oxford Street buildings carrying that number


A gentleman in UK, a very prominent member of the gun fraternity, has questioned whether Reilly, indeed occupied all of 315 Oxford Street (re-numbered 277 after Nov 1881) or just a portion of it, pointing to postal addresses associated with the number "315" with seemed to indicate additional tenets there. To ward off additional questioning on this matter, here is the reply (covered above but repeated here):

The renumbering of Oxford Street occurred in early November 1881, not 1882. There are before and after advertisements for Reilly's at the time:

In addition, and probably why the renumbering took place, there are at least 3 "315, Oxford Street" address in existence at that time:

1) Reilly at 315, Oxford Street - And he held that building in freehold until 1903. I know this because of a famous court case regarding access to the Salvation Army Hall behind his building - he sued the Salvation Army to limit their access through the tunnel under his property. Reilly controlled the substantial part of that building and somehow had a 50 yard shooting range there, advertised from the beginning in August 1858.
07 Aug 1858 "The Field"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .-- Here is reference to the above court case involving Reilly's free-hold on the building which proves conclusively that Reilly controlled that building (The entire court case, which continues to be cited to this day, can be posted):
17 July 1889, "Morning Post"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

2) Purdey at 314, 315 Oxford Street (up to 1882), which they called "314 1/2" as a compromise.

3) 314, 315 Oxford Street, Hanover square: And a boarding house, possibly called "Hanover Residence," run by "Mr. Ash" associated with billiard players, actresses, fly-by-night businessmen, etc. which apparently had shops for selling tickets for voyages, a linen seller, etc.

16 Jan 1881 Bell's Life - the Billiard Shark
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

20 Aug 1881 "The Era" - the fading burlesque actress
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

1881 "Bell's Life" - the employment agency
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

05 July 1880 - the Trunk patent con-man - at "Mr. Ash's"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

05 Aug 1880 "The Sportsman" - If you'll invest 150 pounds, We'll hire you for 80 pounds a year
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Ash ran several businesses, including this one - a tea set maker at 314, 315 Oxford advertising "Ash's."
11 Dec 1880, "Sporting and Dramatic News"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Note: Research shows this is Mr. Henry Clarke Ash, 314 and 315c Oxford Street,. He was a businessman and lodging house keeper per voting records and postal directory pre-1881 at 314, 315 Oxford Street and post 1881 renumbered 301, 303 Oxford street. Here is a modern display of the proximity of the three "pre 1881" "315 Oxford Street" addresses:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

1885 view:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

This is redundant at this point, but the challenges to the research on this line continue. They are of course welcome. Sanity Checks are always needed.

(And by the way, "Hanover Residence" run by Mr. Ash in 1880 sounds like a very interesting place to be at the time!! - billiard sharks, fading actresses, con-men, capitalists on the make...)
=======================================================================================================
Matched pair 16 bores 27853, 27854.


Per a couple of previous lines, I bought a 16 bore Reilly SN 27853 in December 2018 from Gavin, built on a Scott Climax action, number one of a pair. I had in my database one of Terry Buffum's guns 27854, a 12 bore with identical specs, sold 2016 at Amoskeag.

Top 27853; Bottom 27854 (from the auction house photo)


We discussed on this thread whether this might be a husband/wife "pair" - David Trevallion confirmed he'd seen Purdey #1 and #2 guns but 12 bore and 16 bore:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=557354&page=1

I despaired of Amoskeag helping track down the buyer of 27854. I finally sent Amoskeag a letter, with a stamped envelope inside containing a letter to "whom it may concern" re 27854. I asked Amoskeag to address it and forward it to the buyer (they were protecting privacy). The letter was ultimately retuned to me with a name and a Massachusetts address and "undeliverable." Internet research turned up possible matches to the name. I forwarded a second letter to one of them. After three weeks a reply!!

Our two guns, 27853 and 27854 are indeed a matched pair. His is a 16 bore, not a 12 bore. His has the identical escutcheon plate, showing the arms of Clan Urquhart from the Loc Loman area.

27583 left, 27854 right


And the Number #2 on his gun left - #1 on mine!


Small victories...but satisfying!!

And by the way, on my gun the SN on the Action Flats/water table the SN is 27553; But on the barrels, forearm, and tang behind the trigger guard 27853. Almost everyone maintains that SN stamps on the water table/action flats take precedence. In this instance, it's clearly not the case - majority wins and is supported by photographic evidence,.
====================================================================================
Reilly letter to "The Field" on the state of Center-Break guns in UK in December 1857


A gentleman in UK, who is extremely well known in the gun makers' community, forwarded this note to me.

I have just been shown a copy of the " Field " from Dec 26th 1857 which
has a long letter from E M Reilly of New Oxford St in the letters page .
It is all about breech loaders and why he is in favour of them . He
displays obvious knowlege of shooting such guns and of how the " few
London makers " have modified an idea of French origin ,of which English
gentlemen have been aware for this past " 15 or 20 years " He also
mentions the poor shooting guns of French and Belgian make much in use
which have given the breech loader an inferior reputation.


Unfortunately the UK newspaper archive I use is missing "The Field" issues from late 1856 to about January 1858. Library of Congress will have it; but am not sure it's open. If anyone has that issue, is it possible to have the article scanned or perhaps photographed by cell phone and sent to me. Many thanks. It's am important issue.

This post from 02 Jan 1858 "The Field" seems to refer to the above letter from E.M Reilly:

===================================================================================================
Reilly 50 yard Shooting Gallery at 315 (later 277) Oxford Street


Reilly had a 50 yard shooting gallery at 315 Oxford Street. It was pointed out that 50 yard range in downtown London is a lot of room. Either it was underground, punching through basements of adjoining houses or running underneath or beside the Salvation Army Hall behind Reilly's building.

Reilly advertised this shooting gallery from the time he first opened 315 Oxford Street in August 1858:

First Reilly label for 315 Oxford Street.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Advertisement for 315 from 04 September 1858:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Mention of the shooting gallery in a 23 Jul 1858 article in "The Field":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Yet I calculate that 315 Oxford Street was around 60' wide, 20 yards. The shooting gallery either coopted the basements of neighboring houses along the front of Oxford Street, or more likely was underneath the Salvation Army Hall. There is a possibility that it occupied a narrow sliver of property to the west of and adjoining the Salvation Army Hall. Wonder if it is still there in some form or another?

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Edit: I tried to contact Ernest Jones, the Jewelry story which occupies 277 Oxford Street - they insist on my entering a UK phone number. So I sent this message to the Salvation Army Hall behind 277. Perhaps someone will explore the bomb-shelters/catacombs of the area:

Sirs. I have written a New History of Reilly of London, gun manufacturer. Reilly occupied 277 Oxford Street (then numbered 315 Oxford Street in August 1858 and was there until March 1903. He brought a nasty lawsuit in 1889 which was settled in favor of General Booth. Hundreds of advertisements state Reilly had a 50 yard shooting gallery in or under the building. Is there any evidence in your building, of there having been tunnels under the Salvation Army Hall which could have accommodated a "shooting gallery? Or perhaps on the west side of the building in the narrow slot of property there? Sorry to disturb you. This is important for a very small bit of the London past. The Reilly history can be read on this doublegunshop.com line:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436538&page=53


Edit: A well known European gunsmith commented privately that a Shooting Gallery in the 1850's-60's was unlikely to have been underground due to lighting and ventilation issues. He sent me a picture of Lang's shooting gallery at the time an 20 yard room, now a posh hotel on Haymarket street - the room is appropriately named "The Shooting Gallery":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

14 Sep 1859 Bell's Life reference to Lang's shooting gallery - first reference was in 1851.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

This would seem to indicate that the Reilly shooting gallery had to be in that 12-15' sliver of property running down the side of the Salvation Army Hall.

Edit, Here's a more likely solution. Reilly at 277 Oxford St. actually occupied 277 and 281 and the three story overhang over the entrance to 275, Salvation Army Hall. 283 next door is a long narrow property that runs 50 yards all the way back to Hanover Square. I would bet Reilly owned this property and that was the shooting gallery.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Argo, let's go dig for a few lead samples.

See that Reilly 6 bore percussion reference on Shotgunworld.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Thanks Raimey; I responded to the post on Shotgunworld. The two "8578" guns were discussed at the bottom of p.46 on this line. Its was concluded that the Swedish gun likely was 8378 and that the 6 bore bought at Holt's was indeed 8578. Hopefully he'll send photos of the SN once it's received. Gene
==============================================================================================
Attractive Reilly .320 Martini-Henry action rifle - marketed by Reilly, not made


A couple of pages ago (and in the history), I made the comment that I've only found one serial number Martini Henry and that was at the dawn of the Martini Henry age. Here is an attractive example forwarded by Terry Buffum:
https://gen2.joesalter.com/category/prod...nd-Co-Published

Braendlin-Tranter Martini Rifle by E.M. Reilley & Co. (Published)
Serial #15134, .320 CF, 26 1/4 solid rib barrel with an excellent, bright bore. This is an exquisitely finished rifle built on a small frame Martini action with large safety lever on the right side. The barrel retains about 90-92% of the original blue with some silvering at the muzzle, and some thin streaks of gray-brown along the axis. There is a retailer marking on the matted rib: E.M. REILLEY & Co., 502 NEW OXFORD St., LONDON just ahead of the platinum wire inlaid, double folding-leaf rear sight, and (Crown) / WT Tranter Co. marking on the left side of the barrel breech. The frame has beautiful, decorative stippling on the sides, and crisp Braendlin Armoury Co. crossed pennants roundel, E.M. Reilley & Co. riband, and Martini Patent markings in engraved insets. The frame has retained about 95-97% of the original bright blue with some tiny scratches, and small areas of flaking along the top edges. Additionally, muted original color case-hardening can still be seen on the engraved lever and safety. The darkly figured walnut forend with intact carved horn tip, and buttstock have some small handling marks scattered about the excellent, makers refinish. The checkering points are sharp, and the original engraved buttplate (slightly proud of the wood) has some mild surface oxidation at the heel. The action lock-up is tight and crisp. This very rifle is illustrated and described on pp.228-229 in British Single Shot Rifles - Rook, Rabbit & Miniature Rifles - Later Types & Hammerless Models Vol. 8 by Winfer & Rowe (2009). This is a fantastic small frame Martini sporting rifle, illustrated in the standard reference book on British single shot rifles, and rates excellent overall. Antique


A few comments:
-- The "Serial Number" is in fact the Martini patent use number
-- Tranter and Francis Augustus Braedlin made the rifle (not sure who did what) - It's possible with that Reilly stocked the gun as Terry pointed out. Engraving does not look Reilly-ish.
-- There is a Birmingham proof mark on the action.

Anyway very attractive gun, just not made by Reilly:







Notice that the engraving is identical to BrentD's Martini from the post on Martini's on p.48! -- and if the advertisement is correct, Braedlin did BrentD's gun as well.


Now this is something worthy of investigation. Braedlin allegedly was Belgian origin. He was involved with breech loaders and had a gun in the "Martini" trials of late 1860's. And later with Comblain guns the patent for which was secured in UK by Reilly....So what's he doing building Martini's? Sherlock, you are needed.







==================================================================================================
A Note from Donald Dallas


I'd like to share this because it's interesting and relevant. Gunsmith Abe Chaber in Connecticut, recommended by David Trevallion, offered that all English shotguns from the 1880's were originally chambered for 2 1/2" shells and if there are longer chambers (there are several Reilly's with 2 3/4" chambers), they had been reproofed.

I asked Mark Crudgington and Toby Barclay this question and Toby recommended I query Donald Dallas. Here is the email I sent to Mr. Dallas:

Mr. Dallas. A number of people have recommended I contact you - David Trevallion up in Maine, formerly with Purdey; Mark Crudgington in UK; Vic Venters in North Carolina, Toby Barclay in UK, etc.

First I'd like to send you three documents on Reilly which I've compiled over 5 years, 3,000 hours of research:
-- a "New History of Reilly of London" - published in August, September 2019 in two parts by Diggory Haddoke, but continuously updated since then.
-- A Chart of Serial Number extant Reilly's - by date.
-- A Chart dating Reilly trade-labels.

These posts on Reilly have become somewhat controversial because they go against the grain of what this generation has been taught about Reilly. They negate much of Boothyroyd, Brown Vol 1 and 3, and everything written about Reilly in the last 50 years, etc. I'd be curious about your reaction to this research.

The second question is more simple and direct. I have been told that UK shotguns were not chambered in anything longer than 2 1/2" until the 1890's. I challenged similar statements on Saint-Etienne French guns and found pre-1890 chamber lengths up on 90mm. So I question this statement. Toby Barclay said that with punt-guns, pigeon guns, etc., someone must have been making longer black-powder cartridges in UK - but that I should ask you. Could I ask for your opinion?

Gene Williams
McLean, Virginia


And here is his very considerate response:

Dear Gene,

Many thanks indeed for sending me your vast amount of research that you have undertaken on Reilly. I had never read the articles in Diggory's journal so it was all brand new to me. I must congratulate you on your lengthy and so well researched history of Reilly. I well know the considerable amount of hours that go into a piece of proper research like this.

It is so heartening that you have elevated the name Reilly where it belongs. I found it absolutely fascinating and had no idea that Reilly was such a big manufacturer. Like others I assumed, erroneously, as you explain that he was a retailer. I will now completely revise my opinion of Reilly. I was a student at the London School of Economics in the early 1970s and used to pass along New Oxford Street every morning and I always used yo think of Reilly.

Having undertaken so much research have you ever thought about doing a book on Reilly? I would reckon you would sell about 500 copies. It doesnt sound much but it is a very limited market. I think most gun historians would find such a book very interesting. There are two publishers, Quiller Publishing (who publish all my books,) do a superb job but are very expensive. There is another self-publishing British company that I have used that are far cheaper, Book Printing.co.uk. You certainly have enough material for a book.

Many thanks once again for allowing me the privilege of reading all your research.
As regards your query about 2 1/2" guns I have never seen cartridges longer than this made in the 19th century.

regards,
Donald Dallas


First Cyril Adams offered unsolicited praise for the history and serial number date chart and now Mr. Donald Dallas, a legendary researcher and double-gun historian. I must say that there is a certain inner-peace satisfaction in this after some of the harsh words in the argumentation. We are making progress towards a new consensus. And it's all thanks to this site which allowed the research to be posted and debated.
=============================================================================
Reilly 50 yard shooting Gallery at 315 Oxford Street identified - closed about 1870


The mystery of the Reilly 50yard shooting gallery at 315 Oxford Street may be solved. The history will be changed; Here is the logic:

1) Reilly advertised the shooting gallery "on the premises" from the time 315 Oxford Street opened in August 1858 up to about 1870. Below is the last advertisement so far found in the London papers for the range.

2) Remember that there were three "315 Oxford Street" addresses in existence at the time - (referenced below using the re-numbers put in place after 1881.
-- 277, 281 - Reilly - called "315" including the overhang over 275, Salvation Army entranceway),
-- 287, 289 - Purdey - pre-1881 at 314, 315 Oxford Street called "314 1/2"
-- 303, 305 - the Ash Residence house (previously a hospital) located pre-1881 called "314, 315c".
...all within a block of each other.

3). 283 - Above it was speculated that the adjacent building to Reilly later renumbered 283 with a long thin 28 ft wide plot that extended 65 yards to Hanover Square was the Reilly Shooting gallery.

4) Conclusion:

-- a) "283" was a fourth building numbered "315" on Oxford Street pre 1881 and it was adjacent to Reilly's workshop. It likely was originally part of the Reilly complex at 315 Oxford Street and was the location of the shooting gallery.

--b) Reilly's last so far known advertisement for the shooting gallery at "315" was in 1867.

--c) The building was bought in 1871 by a Billiard professional named Joseph Bennett and turned into a Billiard "gallery." It was located at "315, Oxford Street"
https://www.snookerheritage.co.uk/normans-articles/past-masters/joseph-bennett/
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

From Wikipedia:
"Joseph Bennett was an English champion player of English billiards. He was the billiards champion three times when it was played on a challenge basis.

Bennett was born in 1842 in Town Malling, Kent, and played his first billiards match aged 22.

In November 1870, Bennett played John Roberts Jr. for the Billiards Championship and �200, and won the title with the scoreline 1,000-905. The match was watched by over 300 spectators.[2] Roberts beat Bennett 1,000-637 the following year, in January 1871, to regain the title.[3]

Bennett made a further unsuccessful title challenge in November 1871, losing 942�1,000 to William Cook, but won the title again in November 1880, beating Cook 1,000-949. Bennett successfully defended the title in January 1881, beating Tom Taylor 1,000-910. During the match against Taylor, Bennett set a new championship record break of 125.

In September 1881, Bennett, who had broken his arm when being thrown out of a gig, resigned the title when challenged by Cook. He made one further unsuccessful challenge for the title, losing 1,360-3,000 against Roberts in June 1885.

He taught billiards in London. Following a stroke on Christmas Day 1904, he died on 17 January 1905 at his home in Mayfair, London, from "apoplexy following a state of paralysis." "


--d) The Billiard club's address number changed to "283" after 1881.

--e) The actress Miss Emily Bennett, listed as an address both 315 Oxford Street and after 1881 283 Oxford Street, indicating she likely was the daughter of Joseph Bennet, Billiard World Champion (she couldn't have been more than 18 years old in 1881 (see below)

If you want some fun detective work on London society at the time here are the advertisements:

1) Last so far found advertisement for the Reilly shooting gallery:
25 Oct 1867, "London Evening News"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

2) Opening of Bennett's billiard club at 315 Oxford Street:
13 Jun3 1871 "The Sportsman"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

3) Confirmation that this "315" is indeed 283, the Bennett Billiard Club:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

4) Miss Emily Bennett - the burlesque actress (Joseph's daughter) listing both "315" (pre November 1881) and "283" (post Nov 1881) addresses?
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Here is a photographic analysis of the properties 277/281 (Reilly) and 283 (Bennett):
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

As for Joseph Bennett's mention of residing in 1881 at "the Oxford Club," the history of that gentleman's club, a very important club in London history, is interesting. The Oxford Club (a billiard table was always center-piece) leased premises at an "Oxford Street" address in 1881 but never occupied them. The lease must have been let by Mr. Joseph Bennett.

In the fall of 1880, a few young men of Lynn, wishing to form a Club, chose a committee to find quarters and report at a following meeting.

The committee reported that rooms could be procured on Oxford Street. It was at once voted to engage these rooms, and to name the new organization the Oxford Club.

Shortly after this action, it was ascertained that the Club could secure a more suitable room in the Rank Building on Exchange Street. It was determined to take such room; and while, therefore, the proposed quarters on Oxford Street were never occupied, the name Oxford Club was retained. One pool table, one billiard table, a few chairs and a card table were purchased, and the young Club entered into its first home on Exchange Street, with a membership of fourteen, limited to twenty. This limit was very soon reached.


You can read it here:
http://wiki.genealogytoday.com/The_Oxford_Club_1909_History.html
"In 1887 Mr. Josiah C. Bennett was elected President, but declined to serve," (Wonder if this were indeed the 3 times world champion?)

Finally the dimensions of a standard English billiard table on the surface is 10'x5'.
-- If you allow 5' for a cue, then the interior walls of 283 (315), formerly Reilly's shooting gallery, had to be at least a bit over 20' wide. The estimated exterior width of 283 from photos is about 28'. For a shooting gallery, 20 feet x 50 yards is pretty impressive!
-- The length of a table is 10' on the table surface...at 5' per cue and the tables had to occupy 25' feet each for comfort. He had 12 tables on three floors, which included private tables. Say 5 tables on ground and first floor - 125' ...getting pretty near 50 yards.
-- And it's not a pool "Hall"...it's a billiard "Gallery."
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

When I got to Pakistan I had a standard US dimensions pool table in the house (9' x 4.5'). On Friday nights the games commenced....I finally had to limit the bets to 10 rupees ($1 at the time) to prevent fights. The billiard snooker guys would show up - they absolutely didn't understand the difference between snooker and 8 ball. I won a lot of money.!

Photo from 1978, shortly before I left, after I had sold the table to a friend in Karachi:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
==================================================================================================
10054 - Vintage Gun Journal comments


Double gun enthusiasts are passionate about their history. Per posts two pages earlier, Diggory Hadoke forward an advertisement for a Reilly pin-fire SN 10054. It is absolutely the earliest Reilly center-break gun found to date and would date to Fall 1856 per the Reilly chart.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Diggory published the following article in September "Vintage Gun Journal" on the gun:
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/the-earliest-reilly-breech-loader-

A few comments:
-- I may be Old..but not "Oldish." (As the old Special Forces song "Mary Ann Barnes" goes....I can still "Shoot, jump, fight, f**k, fly a plane a drive a truck.")
-- The dating of the gun is far more complex than is presented in the article, and is far more precise. Please read the serial number dating chart and go over the p.44 list of extant guns. (I need to move both history and list forward)
-- Mark Crudgington was introduced to me by Diggory, and I have had an on-going conversation with him about Reilly; we disagree on a number of points - he has been extremely helpful on others. Some of the comments he made to me are included in Diggory's article.
-- The subtle anti-Americanism which emerges from the article can be put down to just trans-Atlantic misunderstandings and prejudices, one supposes. (I've heard about this from other American gun-smiths dealing with their trans-Atlantic Kin). We've encountered them before.

10054 is still the Earliest Reilly center-break ever found. It may be in fact the earliest extant UK made center-break pin-fire.

Mark said that he knows of two dated Lang pin-fires from 1854 per the receipts. (Per Lang's own essay we know he began to make them about early 1854). Mark like David Trevallion and Robert Dollimore in New Zealand, are the historical repository of knowledge of gun making from the 1940's and in Mark's case, because of his father, an inherited expertise stretching back to the 1920's in partnership with David Baker. However, over the years I've learned to wait for the physical evidence.

For now Reilly's 10054 is the earliest existing UK made pin-fire. Welcome refutations.
=========================================================================================
315 Oxford Street - 277 Oxford Street - a clarification


Just to clear up the business about 315 Oxford Street - I was sent a whole lists of businesses supposedly at that address, with the allegation that the were all in Reilly's building and Reilly only occupied a small portion of the building. This is patently not true from the 1889 court case. Here is the proof:

-- excerpt of the 1880 London City Directory for this portion of Oxford street:


-- Excerpt for the same group of businesses in 1885 after renumbering in November 1881.


And here is the match-up of 1880 numbers with 1885 numbers; There are 9 "315"'s, etc:


Hope this puts this allegation to rest.


But by the way, 283 Oxford Street (315), the billiard club postulated as the Reilly shooting gallery 1858 - 1867? is now an unlikely candidate - it was a billiard club in the 1860's as well run by Francois De Neayer (unless it was on the ground floor and the club on the upper stories). To be continued:

1865 London City Street Directory:



=================================================================================================
Who ran the Reilly firm after E.M's death in July 1890? Looks like it was indeed his wife Mary


This article from the 02 August 1895 Marylebone Mercury details the death of Reilly's first "son" (supposed)....making clear he was unable to have directed the company as speculated in the history. It also alleges E.M.'s wife Mary was running the firm. The history will be changed.

The edited history mentions that she was a woman operating in a man's world. This is not derogatory; it's the truth. The fact she did it for 9 years before her death is a testament to her pluckiness. I just wish we knew more about her. At 20 years old, seducing a 50 year old successful businessman, ignoring convention and having 4 sons out of "wedlock"...and running a large company. in Victorian, England. This is really something movies are made for - sex, guns, money and power. Her offspring included later Members of Parliament.

No-one knows who was her father or mother or her background except for family historians who speculate that she as E.M. cousin. Even her maiden name is not clear...it is either Curtis or "C-o-x." She was born in 1845, died in 12 January 1899. Yet this may be a photo of her strolling with E.M. along Oxford Street close to 277, about 1885.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

And by the way, 45' gives an idea of the height of top story window of the old building at 277 Oxford Street.

This is a sad story about Edward Montague...insulted by his father, contracted TB...and it looks like he just gave up.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

You need psychiatric help.
Deleted the wrong thread.


_________________________
Sorry. Couldn’t resist.
A New History of Reilly, Gun Maker, London & Paris
By: Gene Williams

Introduction:

Reilly was a 19th century London gun-maker. He made guns for 90 years from 1828 to 1912 when the firm went bankrupt. All Reilly records were lost in the first decade of the 20th century.

By the mid-late 20th century, a half-century after Reilly's bankruptcy, a generation of gun writers had decided that Reilly was a “gun-retailer” and as such was a minor figure on the London gun scene. Gun anthologies by prominent writers in the 1970's-90's mentioned cursory histories of Reilly but without dating his guns or illuminating his manufacturing and sales operations. There appeared to be no way to validate any of the claims/observations about Reilly or little interest in doing so and the inertia of gun scholarship predominated; Gun writers and advertisers simply repeated ad infinitum the mantra that Reilly was a retailer.

In November 2015 the author bought his first Reilly, a 12 bore SxS shotgun and began to research the company using the resources of the internet. It rapidly became apparent that the histories of and commentary about Reilly were confusing and contradictory. A second look at the company was clearly needed.

The data for this Reilly history began to be compiled at that time:
-- Every extant Reilly gun found on the internet was cataloged, a list that now comprises over 500 serial numbered extant guns and hundreds of non-serial numbered, engraved and marketed long guns and pistols. Serial numbers, addresses on the ribs, patent numbers, chamber and barrel borings, stocks, proof marks, etc. were noted.
-- Every periodical advertisement for Reilly or articles mentioning Reilly in the 19th century UK press was read and archived. There were thousands.
-- Address changes or renumberings, changes in proof-markings, patent filings or expirations, patent use numbers, dates for the introduction of new cartridges, etc. were noted as serial number “date markers.”

50 different topics were researched including early 19th century barrel boring techniques, engraving, gun making machinery and techniques at the time, street address systems in London, whether or not any UK gun maker used chronological patent use numbers, census data, research into Reilly employees, the beginnings of the UK center-break gun industry in the 1850’s, pigeon shooting rules and regulations, guns exhibited at worlds’ fairs, guns purchased by royals, origin of UK pin-fires, location of private shooting grounds, manufacture in London of boxlocks, etc.

A Reilly gun serial number dating graph/chart was created from this data. It’s validity was verified by numerous “sanity checks” taken from existing Reilly long-guns. This chart allowed for the dating of the case/trade labels. With the dating of the guns and trade labels came an understanding of what types of guns Reilly made and sold over the course of 90 years and the technologies available for use when the guns were numbered - a melding of extant guns with 1800's newspaper advertisements.

The history was finally written down in September 2018. It was posted on the below site for peer review and the research was continuously updated and debated as new guns and articles came to light.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436538#Post436538

The study was published in (edited) two parts in summer 2019 in Diggory Hadoke's on-line magazine "Vintage Gun Journal." It has since been added-to extensively - almost daily - and is now, without the constraints of trying to condense it onto one (internet) page, much more detailed and substantive.

The history includes analyses and some logical suppositions and conclusions. These are, however, supported by articles and advertisements and the history as now written is solidly sourced. It corrects or updates dozens of writings on the company most of them erroneous, including Nigel Brown's Vol III, Boothroyd, and just about every article written about Reilly in the last 50 years. Footnotes are provided for each paragraph, indeed each sentence, below. Challenges to this research should be as well documented, not just based on "urban legend."

Attached is also the latest SN date chart which should get a Reilly owner close to the date his gun was manufactured (see the methodology and caveats in the chart footnotes).

See two separate and previous charts:
--"Dating Reilly Labels"(p. 44 and 49)
-- Serial Numbered extant Reilly's (p.44 now moved to p.57) (a complete date list of all known existing serial numbered Reilly's 1828-1912).


Clarifying comments:

. .-- The origin of the "Reilly was a retailer only" myth possibly came out of 1922:
. . . . . – Charles Riggs bought the Reilly name and put 25,000 guns on the market in 30 years, none made by him, with "E.M. Reilly & Co., London" on the ribs from 1922 to 1950.
. . . . . - A generation of gun makers grew up with this in their minds, without a reference to what Reilly was before, because by 1900, 22 years and a world war before Riggs - indeed almost 50 years before noted gun writers David Baker, Ian Crudgington, Geoffrey Boothroyd, Nigel Brown, etc., even began to work on guns as teen-aged apprentices - Reilly - the classic Reilly - was essentially toast.
. . . . . - Finally, in readng the technical expertise exhibited in E.M. Reilly’s 1847 pamphlet on air-guns or his knowledgeable comments on center-break pin-fires published in the 26 December 1857 edition of “The Field,” one understands that these men, the Reilly’s, could not have been just “retailers.”


. .-- The history occasionally goes into some depth on the status of the UK gun making industry to illustrate important points about the Reilly firm, in particular the period 1851-1859 and the origins of the UK center-break breech-loader. This may seem pedantic but is important to understanding the place Reilly occupies in the UK gun-making fraternity and to refute ingrained misconceptions about Reilly. This history also addresses certain unclear points as an academic “pro-con” “debate” of sorts pending additional research.

======= A New, Short History of Reilly of London, Gun Maker =======

The Reilly firm of gun makers in London has long been viewed as enigmatic. Confusion exists on the location of the company, its products, and even whether it actually made guns or was just a retailer. Reilly's records were lost after bankruptcy (1912) and the final shutting down of the firm (1918). This new history should resolve these mysteries and re-establish Reilly as at one time perhaps one of if not the largest of gun makers in London during the mid-1800's.

Joseph Charles Reilly was born in Ireland in 1786. He hailed from a well-to-do family and his family aspired for him to become a lawyer. In the mid-1800's he went to London to study - Irish Catholics could not study law in Ireland at the time. However, he had an independent streak. Instead of law school, he struck out on his own into various technical fields. (He was obviously supported by his family money in all this - he was never a "destitute student.")

He married in 1812. In 1814 he opened a jewelry shop, later described as also dealing in silver-plate, at 12 Middle Row, Holborn, hard by Gray’s Inn of the "Inns of the Court." He registered a silver mark "JCR" in July 1818. His clientele included country gentlemen and barristers.

Note: to register a silver/gold mark required a considerable apprenticeship and noted expertise. John Campbell in his article in "Double Gun Journal," Summer 2015 also wrote that Reilly was a member of the clock-makers' guild, something also requiring quite an apprenticeship; he allegedly retained his membership in this guild until the late 1820's.

In 1817 his son Edward Michael was born, the third of four children. He prospered, buying a country estate in Bedfordshire in 1824.

Jewelry shops in London at the time often dealt in guns, engraving and re-selling them, perhaps because of the influence of the artistic professionalism of Joseph Manton's guns at the time. Some such shops called themselves "Whitesmiths."

Note: Among the extant JC Reilly "jewelry" from this time period are two miniature working naval gun models with Damascus barrels. Yet, he did indeed deal in jewelry: a list of stolen goods from the Reilly shop in January 1831 included, rings, necklaces, bracelets, etc. - normal stuff for the métier.

1828: First Guns Made at 12 Middle Row, Holborn (Holborn Bars), London

Sometime around summer 1828 he numbered his first Reilly built gun which presumably was 01. Reilly's first advertisement for guns he specifically claimed to make is July 1830; However, ads from summer 1828 make it clear he was making guns for clients - and urging customers not to spend money for a "name." The serial numbered guns included pistols, rifles and shotguns.

His guns during this period used the address "Holborn Bars." 12 Middle Row was at "Holborn Bars". "Bars" shows the area was one of the old tax stations for entering London.

Note: Reilly appears to have been amongst the very first London gun makers to begin to advertise in the mass popular press, possibly preceded only by Lang. Very few gun ads from rival makers can be found in 1820’s-early 1830’s newspapers.

Following are the earliest known Reilly serial numbered guns:

-- SN 88 - a pair of .50 cal. percussion dueling pistols with J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London engraved on the hexagonal Damascus barrels; These are the oldest extant Reillys and are dated circa early 1829.

-- SN 162 - the earliest extant Reilly-made long gun; It is a single barrel 6 bore muzzle loader wild-fowler, J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London engraved on the barrel, also made circa 1829.

-- SN 176 - also a pair of .50 cal. percussion pistols, almost identical to SN 88 above with J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London; These are the third oldest existing serial numbered J.C. Reilly guns and are also dated late 1829.

Reilly Business Model:

JC Reilly early on adopted a business model which did not change during the life of the firm: i.e. provide a quality hand-made product for a moderate price and deliver it rapidly, and "make what would sell."

Reilly was never an innovator - he was a businessman first and a technician/engineer second. But, with this model, and especially with the rise of EM, with his family connections to the gun trade, his ability to recognize a winning or commercially interesting invention or patent, and his flexibility enabling him to produce new products and abandon old ways, Reilly undercut more expensive and better known makers and made his profit on volume.

Reilly dealt in used guns taken on trade and sold guns under license. However, he only serial numbered guns he built and he numbered his guns consecutively for 90 years with certain exceptions during the move to New Oxford-Street in 1847. Reilly had extensive finishing facilities in his large London buildings and no doubt stockpiled locks (and later after 1855 actions) and barrel blanks from outworkers to allow him to meet orders three times as quickly as his competitors.
. . .-- Example: Ads from the 1850’s in spring of each year consistently stated that Reilly had 100 guns in various stages of manufacture which were available for custom fitting and engraving; these guns were not previously ordered but were “speculation guns” stockpiled for expected customers based on anticipated demand. These ads state outright that this had been the company business practice for "more than 20 years."
. . .-- Caveat: Around 1880 Reilly may have changed some of the parameters of the company' business model; He may have begun using actions from Birmingham bought "in the white" and finished in London. This possibility is still being investigated (see below).

1831: Reilly "Gun Maker"

The first Reilly advertisement so far found with "Gun-Maker" appeared in April 1831. However, the report on the early January theft of jewelry from his shop identified J.C. as both “gun maker” and “silversmith” indicating that he was alreadly established in the gun trade at that time. From this time forward Reilly identified himself solely as "Gun-Maker.” (For historical reference, the old London bridge was demolished in 1831).

His gun advertisements in 1831 targeted “gentlemen going abroad” and offered special rates to “country dealers” ordering his guns. For an entreprenuer who had began making guns only three years earlier, this is an impressive expansion of his manufacturing capability and his marketing/retailing.

Note: Reilly continued to deal in jewelry for awhile. In London directories he is mentioned as a jeweler up to 1835. He apparently continued to make “jewelry” of a type afterwards which included miniature cannons and guns; J.C. Reilly exhibited small brass mortar models at an exhibition in 1845.

Note: 70 years later as Reilly fortunes began to wane, J.C. Reilly's grandson advertised the firm as "established 1835." This history knows more than the grandson did.

August 1835: Move to 316 High Holborn-Street:

In August 1835 JC Reilly with 17 year old EM as an apprentice moved to 316 High Holborn Street. The building no longer exists but from lithograph prints of the area at the time and from the size of the current building on the plot, it was probably quite substantial. The first serial numbered extant gun with the High Holborn address is SN 1024, an 8.5mm pocket pistol, Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London on the gun.

Advertisements from the 1840’s shows the shop had a small shooting gallery where air guns and hand guns could be tested.

1837: End of Serial Numbered Pistols:

By circa 1837 pistols were no longer numbered in the Reilly chronological numbering system although in the 1839 edition of "Pigot’s London Directory" J.C. Reilly is still listed as “Gun and Pistol Maker.” His serial numbered guns seemed to be limited to bespoke long-guns made to order. The last serial numbered pistol so far found is SN 1292, a 120 bore (.32 Cal.), pocket pistol with a steel barrel. (This style of Reilly pocket pistol is almost ubiquitous - dozens are extant including the most ornate cased in mahogany and silver encrusted to the mundane - it was obviously a best seller. However, none after SN 1292 are serial numbered).

August 1840: Company Name Changes to "Reilly":

In August 1840 the firm's name in advertisements changed from J.C. Reilly to just "Reilly," which may mark the advent of 23 year old EM as a full partner in the company. EM is listed in the 1841 census as living with J.C. and his occupation, like that of J.C. is "Gun maker."

The names on the gun ribs continued to be "J.C. Reilly" or "Joseph Charles Reilly." Case/Trade labels were styled like an embossed business card with the following inscription:
. . ."Joseph Charles Reilly,"
. . . . . . "Gun Maker,"
. . . . 316 High Holborn
. . . .near Chancery Lane.

1840's: Air-guns:

JC Reilly during this period also became known for his air cane guns. Young EM was billed as the expert and was so mentioned in advertisements for the next 8 years, identified as "Reilly Junr."

In 1847 EM wrote a widely disseminated pamphlet on air guns. It is mostly an advertising brochure highlighting the company's ability to produce all sorts of air-guns and parts - but also going into air pressures they achieved in the air chambers and other technical aspects of the guns. It is cited to this day. The pamphlet title page noted the author was "Reilly junr," used the (new) 502 New Oxford Street address and included the phrase "Removed from Holborn" (see below).

Note: The earliest Reilly trade-case label known (for 316 High Holborn Street) came out of an air-gun case, not surprisingly since it was undoubtedly not carried out into muddy fields. It appears that Reilly did not serial number air guns even though the company manufactured and made the guns (similar to post 1837 hand-guns mentioned above). This said there is one air-gun with a serial number 7801 with J.C. Reilly’s name on it. This appears to be a legitimate JC “7000” series number (see below).

Note: Reilly became so associated with air-guns that his name was mentioned in various fiction "who-done-its,' and may have been a prototype for the Sherlock Holmes short story "The Empty House" by Arthur Conan Doyle.

March 1847: Move to 502 New Oxford-Street

In late March 1847 Reilly moved from High Holborn to 502 New Oxford Street, a large edifice also called the "Elizabethian buildings" on a new extension of Oxford Street. With this move, Reilly demonstrated another trait of his business acumen, i.e. "location." The new road provided access to the center of London from the wealthy suburbs. He always chose prestigious, high-traffic locations for his stores.

The building was huge, an estimated 10,000 square feet, possibly more. For a gun-maker in London, this was an enormous space - guns in London were being made in shops at the time the size of a kitchen.

April-November 1847: Change in Trade Label

From April 1847 to November 1847 the trade label kept the form of the old High Holborn case label format but with the 502 New Oxford Street, London address and a note that the firm had "Removed from Holborn."

Note: Reilly used the phrase "Removed from Holborn" in advertisements after the move from April 1847 to November 1847. By December 1847 it had disappeared from his ads.

1847: Change in the Main-Line Numbering Chronology - 3350 Jumps to 8350

At the time of the move the main serial number chronology for Reilly long-guns was jumped up 5000 numbers from about SN 3350 to begin anew at around 8350 (called for simplicity the "8350" series). The name on serial numbered guns after the move ultimately became simply "Reilly" with exceptions.

. . .-- SN 3329 is the last extant gun made at High Holborn. It is a 10 gauge SxS percussion rifle with Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holburn, London on the rib.

. . .-- SN 8378 is the first extant main-line SN'd gun from the new building, a SxS 12 bore muzzle-loading shotgun. It has "J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London" on the rib. The original label in the old High Holborn case label format has the 502 New Oxford Street, London address and notes the firm had "Removed from Holborn."

. . .-- SN 8463 is the first extant SN'd gun in the new series with only "Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London." The gun is a .390 cal SxS muzzle loader rifle, also with "Removed from Holborn" on the label.

Note: Reilly used the phrase "Removed from Holborn" in advertisements after the move from April 1847 to November 1847. By December 1847 it had disappeared from his ads.

1846-1857: J.C. Reilly 7000 Series Numbering Chronology

Preceding this move to New Oxford Street, around early 1846, perhaps anticipating the (planned) change in the main serial number chronology, J.C. Reilly appears to have kept a series of numbers for himself, called for simplicity the J.C. "7000" series. He numbered about 1200 guns over the next 11 years in this series beginning around SN 7000 and ending around 8200 when he retired in 1857.

JC Reilly sometimes (but not always) put his full name or initials on the ribs of these serial numbers but with the 502 New Oxford Street address; yet the trade/case labels with "Reilly" as the firm's name and the advertisements/publicity remained the same for the "8350 main-line series and the J.C. "7000" series.

. . .-- SN 7021 is the first extant SN'd gun in the JC "7000" series, a 20 bore single barrel boy’s percussion shotgun. It has " Reilly, London" on the barrel and was probably numbered in early 1846.

. . .-- SN 7023 is the second extant SN'd gun in the JC "7000" series, an 11 bore SxS percussion shotgun. It has "J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London" on the rib and was probably numbered in early 1846.

. . .-- SN 7201, a .577 percussion single barrel rifle, was the first in the J.C. 7000 series with the new "Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London" address on the barrel, probably numbered around September 1847. It has the old style "J.C. Reilly" trade label with the new 502 New Oxford Street address and also with "Removed from Holborn."

. . .-- SN 8186 is the last extant gun in the 7000 series (no doubt made in late summer 1857). It's an elegant .650 mimi ball single barrel muzzle-loader rifle engraved Reilly, New Oxford Street, London, with "Vini, Vidi, Vici" on the barrel (- see below).

Outlier J.C. serial numbered guns, 1840-1856

There are outlier SN'd guns associated with JC which do not fit any sort of pattern, illustrating the sometime quirkiness of JC Reilly.

. . .-- 4573 - c1841, a 7 gauge, smoothbore, short single barrel, dangerous game gun with "J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London" on the barrel.

. . .-- 2008 - c1850-56, a 14 bore SxS muzzle-loader shotgun with "Joseph Charles Reilly, New Oxford Street, London" on the rib, and the trade label in the case dating from late 1847 to circa summer 1856 series;

. . .-- 3514, a 13 bore SxS percussion shotgun with "Reilly, New Oxford Street, London" on the rib, apparently made (per the trade label in the case) after 1855.

Hypothetical J.C. "4500-5000" number series early/mid 1840's:

There are two (possibly three) extant SxS percussion guns from apparently the mid-1840's which are very similar; It may be that J.C. Reilly had a 5500 serial number series of some sort; more guns are needed to establish this point. One wonders whether this series might be connected to 4573 above; if so it would add a good 1,000 guns to the total Reilly made. However there is a second possibility to account for the below serial numbers; It is possible that J.C. and E.M. split their gun numbering series around 1844-45 before the move to Oxford Street, E.M. keeping the 3000 series and jumping it to 8500 in 1847 and J.C. numbering guns with the 4500-5500 series and jumping those numbers to the 7000 series in 1846. Until more guns come to light this is only hypothetical:

. . .-- 5512 – 1845-47?, a 16 bore SxS muzzle loader shotgun, which has “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London now 502 New Oxford Street” on the rib, the only gun found so far with both addresses and it would appear numbered around the time of the move. However, the two addresses are printed a slightly different font indicating 5512 may have been brought in for maintenance after the March 1847 move and re-engraved at that time;

. . .-- 5580 – 1845-47?, a 12 bore SxS muzzle loader shotgun, which has “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London” on the rib, (engraving and format very similar to 5512 above);

. . .-- xxxx – 1845-47?, The engraving on 5512 and 5580 match remarkably to a 12 bore SxS percussion gun advertised by Christies with “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London” on the rib; The SN was unpublished, however, it could be part of this possible “5500 series.”

December 1847: New Label for 502 New Oxford-Street

Soon after the move, possibly around December 1847, the trade label changed to "Reilly, Gun Maker." It was rectangular shaped with scolloped corners and featured a sketch of 502 New Oxford Street.

Note: From 1847 to 1859 long guns and hand guns can be found with "Edward M.," "Edward Michael," or "E.M" on their ribs; however, unless serial numbered these were not built by Reilly - they were only engraved and marketed.

Reilly in the early 1850's: Shooting Range, Custom Gun and Munitions

Business anthologies and gun history sites from this period note that J.C. Reilly made guns, E.M. Reilly air guns. But, both worked from the same building and used the same advertisements. This distinction has been made too much of. They operated from the same company. 1850's Reilly advertisements confirm this conclusion.

Advertisements from 1851 papers show that Reilly had a 300 yard shooting range near his London establishment. Research shows it was located off Wood Lane, Shepard's Bush and was still in use through the 1880's.

Reilly was making custom explosive bullets for famous hunter/explorer Sir Samuel Baker as early as 1853 when Baker wrote his book The Rifle and Hound in Ceylon. Baker in 1874 edited the book adding, “For many years I have been supplied with first rate No 10 rifles by Messrs. Reilly & Co, of Oxford Street, London, which have never become in the slightest degree deranged during the rough work of wild hunting.”

Throughout the 1840’s and 1850’s Reilly targeted mid-level British officers going abroad to “the colonies” with his ads. In addition throughout the history of the company Reilly marketed his guns to Indian Rajah’s and royalty.*

1851 Crystal Palace Exposition – the Lefaucheaux revelation

Reilly exhibited at the 1851 Crystal Palace International Exposition (as Edward M. Reilly). There were two extremely influential guns shown at the exposition. Colt showed his heavy revolver which became a sensation. However, Reilly and the UK long-gun world was much taken by the Casimir Lefaucheaux center-break gun, used in France since 1836. Reilly, Lang and Blanch ultimately became the major advocates for the Lefaucheaux new type of break-action guns in England, something that would cause a technological revolution and a great deal of dispute and public wrangling amongst the UK gun-owner fraternity.

1855 Paris Exposition Universelle

Reilly exhibited at the 1855 Paris Universelle Exposition, where he received much acclaim, "all guns were sold," and "many orders were booked." The exhibit was in the name of E.M Reilly; however, advertisements make it very clear that though EM won the medals, the firm was still "Reilly, Gun Maker."

For the record, In the mid-1850’s Reilly’s foreman was named fnu “Le Gerant” per an advertisemtnent for a rifle for sale on consignment. ("Le Gérant" of course means "the manager" in French....thus this may not be a name at all..just another expression of Reilly's Catholic francophilia).

Reilly Numbering Bore Sizes before the 1855 Proof Law

In 1855 the British government required that bore sizes be stamped on barrels; Reilly, however, along with Greener and Manton, appears to have been amongst the very few gun makers stamping bore sizes for years before the formal requirement. There are several extant Reilly's with bore size stamps dating back to 1842.

Mid-1856: Trade/Case Label Changes

Reilly case labels changed after 1855 to illustrate the 1851 and 1855 world's fair medals and to highlight "Fusils à bascule," French for center-break guns (made on the "Lefaucheux principle"). The new label also advertised “Improved Breech Loaders” referring to guns such as the Prince Patent bolt action and the Terry Patent breech loaders which he marketed and promoted.

Note: Efforts have been made to try to date when exactly this label was adopted because it has obvious implications for when Reilly began making and selling certer-break guns (see below). The first dated newspaper ad so far found with the phrase "Fusils Ă  bascule" appeared in ""The Law Journal"," 16 Aug 1856. There are other 1856 Reilly advertisements for "Fusils Ă  bascule" or "Fusils bascule" in certain books and tour guides but the exact dates these were published are not clear.

There is a 12 bore pin-fire rifle shell stamped "Reilly, London" and dated 1855. It almost certainly was made under contract and imported from France. The cartridge's existance shows only that Reilly might have been selling pin-fire shells in 1855. It does, however, highlight Reilly's involvement in center-break guns at the time, surely a very small niche business then but one for which a sharp visionary businessman like E.M. could see a future.

September 1857: J.C. Reilly Retires

In September 1857 J.C. Reilly retired to his country estates at Bourn End, Cranfield, Bedfordshire, where he died a wealthy man in January 1864; his last guns in the "7000" series were engraved with Julius Caesar's words "Vini, Vidi, Vici" ("I came, I saw, I conquered") possibly as his swan song story of his life. "Formerly Gun-Maker, London" was placed on his tombstone at his request.

Speculation: J.C.'s retirement appeared to have been quite abrupt. At the time the debate over center-break breech-loaders, a French invention, divided families and flame wars raged in the British press. One wondered if J.C., the traditionalist, broke with his son E.M, a very early proponent of the Lefaucheux break-action gun, over this issue - much like what happened between the Greener's father/son a few years later. However, based on 1855 advertisements in "The Field "broke" is not the correct word - rather a more accurate description of JC's retirement should be something like, "JC surrendered the field to his son."

1856-1860: Reilly Building Break Action Pin-Fire Guns

Reilly, began building center-break guns as early as 1856 (possibly late 1855). (Note: E.M. Reilly claimed he experimented with the concept shortly after the 1851 Crystal Palace exhibition but abandoned it as commercially unviable - whether this is true or not is not verifiable)..

In a long letter to "The Field" published on 26 December 1857, E.M. stated that until about summer 1857 most of his sales of pin-fire breech-loaders were sold as "novelties." It wasn't until then that the whole break-action concept began to be taken seriously in UK. E.M. by that time had taken a major technological business risk. Per an advertisement from June 1857 he had 100 center-break breech-loaders in various states of build and ready to be customized; he gambled on the market by devoting fully 33% of his production capacity to making breech-loaders, this some two years before Purdey made his first.

. . .-- SN 10054 - The oldest Reilly center-break gun so far found. It is a "Lefaucheux/Lang" type long forward-underlever, single-bite type pin-fire 15 bore SxS rifle engraved "Reilly, 502 New Oxford-Street, London" on the rib. It is in a period case, with the post 1855 Paris Universelle label with "Fusils Ă  bascule" on it. It would date per the chart to fall 1856, about the time the first Reilly ad for "Fusils Ă  bascule" appeared in the London Press (mentioned above).

. . .-- SN 10128 - The second oldest existing Reilly pin-fire. It is a 16 bore SxS Shotgun, a Lang/Lefaucheux long underlever, single bite, pin-fire, made a couple of months afterwards circa December 1856. .

. . .-- SN 10355 (address unknown) - 12 bore SxS shotgun, pin-fire hammer gun with leather case and original labels and implements. No additional details are available from at the time a rather obscure US auction house. Per the chart it would date to mid-1857.

. . .-- SN 10655 - The fourth oldest extant Reilly break-action SxS gun found to date: It is a "Lefaucheux/Lang" type short forward-underlever, single-bite type pin-fire 12 bore SxS shotgun with "E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford-Street, London" on the rib, probably numbered around the time of the below mentioned "The Field" trial - March 1858. (Note the E.M. Reilly name but without the “& Co.” on the rib. There is one advertisement in an 1858 newspaper using “E.M. Reilly” rather than “Reilly.”)

E.M. Reilly participated in the April 1858 trial pitting muzzle-loaders against breech-loaders run by "The Field." His breech-loader handed a W.W. Greener muzzle-loader an historic defeat in this trial; Greener later tried to denigrate breech-loaders in his 1858 book, and was called out in the most definitive fashion by "The Field."

By fall 1858 Reilly, along with Lang and Blanch, the original proponents of break-action guns in UK, was reported to be "overdone with orders for his breech-loaders" per "The Field"; The article specifically praised Reilly’s 16 bore pin-fire used in the competition. "The Field" commented in the same aricle that at this time ¾ of the orders for new guns in London were for breech loaders.

Reilly provided 4 guns for the follow-on muzzle-loader/break-action breech-loader trial run by the "The Field" in July 1859, all allegedly built on the "lever under fore-arm" English standard single-bite "Lefaucheux/Lang" principle per a sketch in "The Field." However, at this time Reilly also was making guns with the under-lever located under the trigger guard Beringer-style per a late 1859 book sketch; whether one of these guns participated in the trials is unknown. (The gun pictured in the sketch could well be a center-break Beriinger-style pin-fire SxS shotgun sold at a recent auction – serial number unkown).

Observation re "retailer" vs "gunmaker" from an analysis of extant 1856-58 Reilly pin-fires:
-- 10054 (Fall 1856),
-- 10128 (December 1856),
-- 10355 (mid 1857), and
-- 10655 (March 1858):

. . .-- In fall 1856, there were virtually no outworkers in London who could have made 10054 or 10128. Both guns are early Lang/Lefaucheux forward under-lever pin-fire SxS's.
. . . . . .- Lang was making pin-fire Lefaucheux style breech loaders but not for the trade. Per Lang's own pamphlet he began to make such guns in January 1854. He did not advertise them. Yet Lang won a publicized gold medal at the 1855 Paris Universelle for his breech loader - his work on the concept was not a secret.
. . . . . .- Blanch claimed he made his first pin-fire breech-loader in 1856, this after traveling to Paris to buy a center-break, under-lever around trigger-guard, Berringer style pin-fire in late 1855 after the Paris Universelle and presumably reverse engineering it (He wrote about this purchase - the receipt exists). Blanch explained in his later book that at the time the change-over from muzzle-loaders entailed a massive alteration in the manufacturing processes for guns from a breech-plug to a lump, from locks to actions, etc. - this in the face of a very conservative clientele.
. . . . . .- Reilly, thus was on his own when he obviously embarked on a similar path to that of Blanch in 1855 or possibly earlier to manufacture and sell the French invention. Per Blanch's writings, it appears Reilly had preceeded him in the design and manufacture of a center-break breech-loader.)

. . .-- 10355 mid-1857- Similar conclusions (without additional details on the gun).

. . .-- 10655, a Lefaucheux-style 12 bore SxS shotgun pin-fire breech-loader: At the time it was numbered, March 1858, believe there were still very few gun-making firms or gun parts makers in general in all of UK that could have made it or portions of it – barrels & actions, and it's twins submitted by Reilly for the April 1858 "The Field" breech-loader vs muzzle-loader trials.
. . . . . .- Again, the two firms, who could possibly have made 10655, were Lang and Blanch. E.C. Hodges, the original designer of Lang's break-action gun, was making center-break actions, labeled with his name on the plate - not found on Reilly's. Although two very small Birmingham gunsmiths submitted pin-fire break-actions for the trials, the first main-stream Birmingham-made center-break gun or the manufacture of center-break actions was still several years in the future.
. . . . . .- However, Lang and Blanch had orders aplenty themselves - they likely had no time to manufacture for "the trade."

. . .-- Thus, the most logical conclusion is that the extant Reilly pin-fires from this era 10054, 10128, 10355, and 10655 were indeed made by Reilly; no one else could have done it for him. It well may be that 10054 is the earliest UK made pin-fire center-break gun in existence.

(These conclusions are per historical data currently available on the early origins of UK center-break pin-fires. For the record Haris Holland made his first breech loader in 1857 although he advertised them in Sep 1856; Boss in 1858; Purdey in late 1858 or early 1859.)

August 1858: Opening of 315 Oxford-Street Manufactory - New Label

In early August 1858 with new partners (unknown) EM opened a branch store/factory in a large building at 315 Oxford Street, probably because of the surging demand for break-action breech-loaders. The branch early on was also referred to as "Reilly's Armoury House" or on labels, a separate format from the 502 labels, "The Manufactory." Reilly was three doors down from Purdey located at "314 1/2" - the numbers are deceiving.

Note: Oxford Street numbering at the time is extremely confusing. There were 9 x 315's in the census of 1871 and 1881 and in the pre-1882 postal directories. It appears the entire block was numbered "315" with variations.

From this time forward guns with only "Oxford Street, London" on their ribs would have been built at 315 Oxford Street. Guns built at 502 New Oxford Street without a street number would have simply "New Oxford Street."
. . .-- The first existing gun with only "Oxford Street" is SN 10811 (Fall 1858) - see below.
. . .-- The first extant gun with the address number "315" physically on the barrel is a 3-band Enfield SN 11419, probably numbered in Spring 1860.

Reilly created a separate retangular trade label with unscolloped corners for this new workshop, again using "Fusils à bascule" with the name “Reilly’s Armoury House.” It advertised the shooting gallery (see below).

The Shooting Gallery at 315 Oxford Street:

With the opening of 315 Oxford Street, Reilly also opened a 50 yard shooting gallery attached to the workshop. A 50 yard shooting gallery in central London is extremely unusual. While many gun manufacturers had a small space for shooting hand-guns, perhaps only two had a space where shotguns and rifles could be shot, Lang and Reilly. Lang had a well-known shooting gallery described numerous times; but believe it was only about 21 yards long.

Thus, Reilly's shooting gallery likely was unique. Per newspaper ads and per mentions in articles in "The Field," the 50 yard shooting gallery was "on the premises" of Reilly's 315 manufactory. It had to be above ground for light and ventilation. It may have been on the ground floor of the adjacent billiard club also numbered "315" or occupying a sliver of property running from Oxford Street through an apparent large open space/courtyard behind the building to Princess street near Hanover Square. Later the center of this block became a skating rink in the 1870’s and then Salvation Army Regents Hall from 1882 on. The last ad for the range so far found is in 1867.

August 1858-March 1859: Company Name Changes to “Reilly & Co.”

The company may have used "Reilly & Co., Gun Maker" (singular) for a short while from circa August 1858-March 1859 per a few advertisements & references in books. Newspaper ads only began mentioning this name from January 1859 but it may have been registered in some way in trade directories. No trade labels exist with this name. One extant gun has "Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London" allegedly on the barrel - SN 10811, a Prince patent breech loader, the name/address probably engraved in early fall 1858. No photos were available to confirm the name/address on the barrel of 10811 but, relying on Christie's advertising integrity, this is probably the first extant gun made at 315 Oxford Street.

April 1859: Name Changes to “E.M. Reilly & Co.” - New Labels

By April 1859 the company's name used in newspaper and magazine ads changed definitively to "E.M. Reilly & Co", a name which continued in use until bankruptcy in 1918 and beyond when the name was bought by Charles Riggs.

His labels for both workshops changed at that time to reflect the new name, "E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Makers" (note the plural)
. . .- 502 New Oxford St. continued to use the standard scolloped corner rectangular label illustrated by the sketch of the building and the 1851 & 1855 World’s Fair medals;
. . .- 315 Oxford Street continued to have a different rectangular label still without scollops but now also with the “E.M Reilly & Co.” name.

The first extant serial numbered gun with "E.M. Reilly & Co." on the rib is a 3 band Enfield SN 11227 dated per the below chart to autumn 1859.

August 1860: “Gun Makers” Becomes “Gun Manufacturer”

In August 1860 Reilly began using "Gun Manufacturer (singular) rather than "Gun Makers" in his advertisements. The Trade Labels did not appear to change.

April 1861: “Gun Makers” Becomes “Gun Manufacturers”

In circa April 1861 the company's description on labels and in advertisements changed from "Gun Makers" to "Gun Manufacturers"(plural). At this point the company was known definitively as "E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufactures," a name and description which continued in use for the next 40 years.

At that time the sketch of 502 New Oxford Street was dropped from his case labels. The separate label for 315 Oxford Street also was dropped. The new label either had 502 or 315 as the featured address; if 315 the principle establishment address was added in scroll work and vice versa. The basic format for the new label remained consistent for the next 30+ years with variations (additions of medals, branch addresses, occasionally mention of royalty, etc.) (There were a few outlier labels). The advertising scroll work at the bottom of the label changed slightly after 1885. (See the separate chart dating Reilly labels).

Reilly Presentation cases also at this time changed to adopt both the new name and description.

Business anthologies at this time identified EM Reilly as both gun and pistol manufacturers and sword/cutlery makers. Reilly's name has been found engraved on bayonettes and swords from the era.

During this time frame Reilly in advertisements claimed to be making every piece of every gun he serial numbered in his two workshops on Oxford Street and invited customers to "view the progress of their order." This would make Reilly one of the very few "vertical" gun companies in London. The London (and Birmingham) gun trade at the time relied for the most part on out-sourced parts and materials, which were assembled and finished in-house.

Note. Haris Holland posted a similar advertisement in "The Field" in 1858. It's entirely possible that Reilly was allowing customers to view only the "assembled/finished" parts of small arms manufacturing; this said, Reilly's manufacturing spaces dwarfed that of Haris Holland at the time.

1856-1866: Reilly Making Different Types of Long Guns

During the period 1856-1866 Reilly was engaged in making and marketing a variety of long guns during one of the most innovative and diverse periods of gun development in the UK. Basically he made and sold the following genera types of long-guns:
-- Single and double-barrel percussion sporting guns and rifles.
-- Enfield rifle muskets
-- Jacob patent SxS muzzle loader rifles (no extant copies of a Reilly Jacop patent gun exists but they are mentioned in numerous ads and articles. A Reilly made “sword/bayonette” for a Jacobs rifle exists. Reilly was under contract to Jacobs to manufacture exploding shells for his gun which allegedly could reach out 2000 yards. Col Jacobs was an amazing character who dominated the Sind and Punjab plains in the 1840’s-50’s and he had eccentric if fanatically held beliefs out military guns.)
-- Terry patent breech loader rifles (One extant Reilly-made Terry exists. A Anglican biship of Sarawak used one with deadly effect during an encounter between Rajah Brooks navy commanded by his son and six Prangas loaded to the gills with blood-thirsty Moro pirates).
-- Prince patent breech loading rifles (see below)
-- Green patent breech loading rifles (see below)
-- Snider-Enfield breech loading rifles (see below)
-- SxS and single barrel center-break pin-fires - rifles and shotguns. Center-fire examples just eek into this time period.
-- He did a lot of developmental work on others’ ideas; for instance Major Nuthall’s patent rifle and ball were developed and built by Reilly per “The Field” and he continued to make exploding rifle bullets for Sir Samuel Baker.

This may seem like an excessive variety of different guns being made simultaneously. However, is not much different from any other gunmaker in London. And to clarify, the Green Bros Patent and the Snider were essentially Enfield muskets with a breech screwed onto the barrel. These guns were essentially hand-made and once templates and measurements for a particular patent were in hand, competent gun makers could reproduce the guns. Reilly also apparently made "batches" of particular patent guns at once at times taking a technological risk on their marketability (see Prince Patent and Green Brothers Patent guns below).

Reilly Selling to Militia & Gun Clubs at Wholesale Prices

Beginning in 1859, Reilly also began advertising rifles sold wholesale to equip "Yoemanry" militia. He continued to advertise such guns up to at least the 1890's. Most of these guns may not have been made by him, especially after the early 1860's, and thus not serial numbered. (The Yoemanry Militia, a sort of UK "National Guard," was still in existence in WWI and units were deployed to France). He also advertised discounts for bulk purchases by shooting clubs. Reilly continued to advertise wholesale sales of guns in his advertisements and occasionally on outlier labels for the next 40 years.

Reilly and Pistols

Reilly always retailed pistols of all types from the beginning of the firm to the end. He engraved them and put his name on them. However, after 1837 he did not serial number them although Reilly was still listed as “gun and pistol makers” in business anthologies as previously noted. By 1859 he was selling all types of pistols and revolvers, Trantor, Adams, Colt, Smith&Wesson; he sold Howdah's, pepperboxes, duelers, derringers, Flobert, etc. But, because he did not serial number these guns, he did not build them.

Reilly apparently did assemble foreign made revolvers from parts imported from Liège possibly as early as 1860. But Reilly did not serial number assembled guns - witness the Martini-Henry Reilly rifles (see below). Thus pistols are ignored in this study; they cannot be used to date Reilly long-guns except for those with surviving cases with original trade labels, which helped build a data-base of Reilly case labels.

Note: A Reilly pepperbox may have been weilded by "Flashman" in the novel "Flashman and the Mountain of Light," by George MacDonald Fraser.

Reilly Stocks

Reilly almost always used a straight English stock for SxS shotguns. He almost always used a pistol grip stock for rifles, and if not, a trigger-guard extension which aped a pistol grip (a "scroll guard"). If a classic Reilly "shotgun" has a pistol grip stock, it almost certainly was repurposed from a rifle. There are proven exceptions, mostly for big-bore fowlers, but rare.

Reilly from very early on used French walnut. His highly figured stocks differed markedly from the standard English walnut offered by other makers and may be something of a marker.

Reilly Engraving

Reilly’s engraving was always tasteful, usually in the English “Rose and Scroll” style. In fact the company showed examples of embossing and chasing at the 1851 Crystal Palace world’s fair. There are guns, however, with wildlife engraved on them, mostly from the muzzle-loading period. Some of this engraving is quite realistic; however, many of the depictions of birds and animals on Reilly engraving is somewhat cartoonish. Some London gunsmiths say that many of the engravers in London at the time had never seen a wild deer, partridge or duck in their lives and drew from impressions or others’ sketches.

Reilly Barrels: Always London proofed; Reilly bored

All serial numbered Reilly’s, i.e. guns built by Reilly, with original barrels from the beginning of the firm in 1828 until bankruptcy in 1912 were proofed in London. (There are two known possible exceptions out of some 600 existing guns). (edit: This is under review since there is an 1897 barrel and action with Brum proof marks from 1896 in existence. See 1880's commentary. If there is one, there must be others).

It is well known that after 1844 with the closure of the London barrel forger Fullerd, London barrel blanks came from Birmingham (and by 1890 from Liège). However, these were bored in London. As early as 1841 Reilly advertised that he was boring his own barrels. For how long he continued to do so is unknown, but throughout the 1840’s he advertised fixing others’ bad barrels by reboring them adding, “no cure, no pay.” Testimonies as to the excellence of Reilly-bored percussion gun barrels can be found.

Reilly Shells and Ammunition

In the letter he wrote to “The Field” in December 1857, EM Reilly complained about the inability of UK ammunition makers, in particular Ely, to manufacture pin-fire shells. By that time it appears he had made the decision to go into the shotgun shell manufacturing business. He guaranteed access to supplies of ammunition in his summer 1857 advertisement for break-action pin-fires. In 1861 he patented a new machine for crimping shells. He continued to manufacture and sell his own shells for the next 40 years. This was apparantly a significant stream of income for the company. Reilly shells have been found in an archeological dig in Canada and in an investigation of an old whaling station in New Zealand.

Reilly and the 1862 London exposition:

In 1862 Reilly showed at the London International exposition and won a medal for an exhibit which included a gold washed 12 bore muzzle-loader shotgun which may still exist (SN 12532). The result, an "honorable mention" medal, had to be disappointing; Reilly placed great store in scoring well at these expositions - it was an advertising bonanza and certainly he put out a bliz of publicity leading up to the World's Fair.

Quality staff:

Articles on this exposition mention the intelligence and people skills of Reilly's young representative at his stand a "Mr. McNamara." It is interesting to note that similar laudatory comments were made about Reilly’s staff at the 1858 and 1859 (Mr. Bennet) "The Field" trials. It appears Reilly picked his young staffers with care and meticulously trained them.

For the record, in early 1860’s the Reilly shop foreman was a gunsmith named John Baker. He may be identical to a later gunmaker located in Birmingham by the same name


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Attempts to Curry Favor with the British Royal Family:

Throughout the 1860's Reilly guns were purchased by various members of the British royal family, usually to give as gifts to foreign dignitaries or persons who had done favors for the family. Reilly tried to obtain, but without success, a Royal Warrant as "Gun Maker to the Royal Family."

For a few months in 1863 Reilly published advertisements associating himself with the Royal Family based apparently on the purchase of Reilly guns by the Prince of Wales. He also spent hundreds of pounds on elaborate gas light decorations to his buildings on various Royal anniversaries and on the wedding of the Prince. He apparently was slapped down pretty quickly and after November 1863, such claims never again surfaced.

Note: The Reilly’s were Irish Catholic. E.M. at least appears to have been involved with the church and to have campaigned against religious discrimination against Catholics in UK. Whether this influenced his ability to obtain a “Royal Warrant” or even to win a contract with Arsenal is problematic.

Attempts to Win a Military Contract:

From at least the 1840's the Reilly's tried mightily to win a lucrative military contract from the British government.

-- Prince Patent Breech Loader: EM Reilly promoted the Prince patent breech loader in the late 1850's. This was probably the finest existing breech-loading rifle of its time. It outshot the newly adopted Enfield in 1855.
. . . . .- In March 1858 12 prominent London gun-makers signed an open letter in “The Field” urging Arsenal to reopen the army rifle competition in favor of the Prince. Reilly and Green did not sign the letter – Green was in partnership with Prince and Reilly probably had a financial stake in the firm, thus could not. However, in view of Reilly’s subsequent heavy commitment to making Prince breech-loaders and given E.M.’s shrewd business sense, it is entirely possible that Reilly provoked the whole exercise as a business ploy.
. . . . .- Reilly subsequently was one of several London gun-makers licensed to make the rifle.
. . . . .- The first Reilly extant gun made at 315 Oxford Street was a Prince breech-loading rifle SN 10811, one of three extant Princes built during a six month period. In fact, it appears that during summer/fall 1858 Reilly took another one of his technological market-place gambles by devoting significant resouces to build a quantity of Prince breech loaders, perhaps as many as 100 out of some 200 Reilly guns made during that period.

-- Green Brothers Patent Breech Loader: In January 1862 the Green Brothers C.E. and J., formerly in business with Prince, took out a patent for their breech loader action which could be adapted to the Enfield rifle-musket. EM Reilly obtained manufacturing rights to the patent and worked with the Green brothers to win an army contract for it. Reilly conducted an extensive advertising campaign for the breech loader beginning in March 1864. The Green Brothers breech loader was entered by Reilly in the Army competition for an interim breech loader in 1864-66 but lost out to the Snider. Per use numbers he built over 400 of these rifles over the next 4 years. The breech loader was popular before the Snider came into general use (adopted 1866) and won a lot of shooting contests in this period.
. . . . .- Reilly’s first extant manufactured Green-Bros breech loader is SN 12002 Patent use #1. 12002 is dated mid-1861 before the Green Bros even took out their patent; However according to the Royal Armories Museum, this gun was actually built on an 1853 Enfield Rifle-Musket 3rd pattern; the gun was obviously originally built as an Enfield percussion gun in 1861 by Reilly and selected to be modified into a Green Bros breech loader in spring 1864. It has a 39” barrel – susequent rifles used 24” barrels.
. . . . .- In May 1864 (per the dating chart) Reilly built extant serial number 13326 (use #16) and 13333 (use #23), shortly after he began advertising the gun. The serial use numbers show that he built at least 8 Green Brothers rifles in a row at this time and possibly more.
. . . . .- Reilly appears to have built Green Brothers breech-loaders in batches. In addition to the above mentioned 8 straight Green Brothers serial numbered guns, Reilly build 147 Green Brothers breech-laders in a six month period from September 1867 to February 1868, over 50% of his output during this period.
. . . . .- The fact that Reilly built these Green rifles using consecutive numbers may indicate he was experimenting with using parts that could fit multiple rifles and with mass-production techniques. This was called the “American System” and was being promoted in London by Arsenal at the time. The system did not arrive in Birmingham until the next decade.

-- Snider-Enfields: In early 1864 the armies of Europe were shocked by the decisive victory the Prussian Dreyse Needle Guns brought during the Danish-Prussian War. The British responded by conducting trials for an interim breech loader to replace the Enfield. Snider, an American, won the competition with a breech that could be adapted to existing Enfields and in September 1866 the Snider-Enfield was officially introduced. Snider’s continued in use for 60 years, and were entered in marksmanship contests up to 1920 in Canada and pre-war in Britain. A lot of Reilly serial numbered 1853 Enfields were converted to Sniders. However, Reilly also made and serial numbered Sniders in and of themselves, a number of which are extant) including one 8 bore .750 caliber big-game rifle.
. . . . .- SN 15021 (early 1868) is the first extant Reilly made specifically as a Snider-Enfield.

-- Reilly-Comblain Breech Loaders: In 1867-1870 he put forward the Comblain breech loader from Belgium, to which he gained patent rights in England, competing against trial guns such as the Martini and the Henry, a combination of which was later adopted by Arsenal as the follow-on breech-loader to the Snider. The Comblain was not actually accepted by the trials board as an entry in the competition; The board commented that they preferred other breech-loading options; it may be that the board thought the Comblain breech loading system too similar to and not necessarily superior to the Snider. Yet, per use numbers he built over 6000 Comblain's in UK over 5 years 1867-72. However, none of the Comblain rifles were serial numbered. He likely had them manufactured under contract in Birmingham. (6000 guns are far too many guns for civilian purchasers alone - see the Green Bros Breech loader above. These guns had to be made for a contract of some sort - who bought them and where they went is still a mystery.)
. . . . .-- The first existing Reilly-Comblain is use number #25.
. . . . .-- The last extant Reilly-Comblain is use number #6109 with E.M. Reilly & Co., Sole Manufactures, New Oxford St, London on the action.

-- Explosive Bullets: He patented an explosive bullet in 1869, a sort of early M-79 idea. Note: Sir Samuel Baker wrote in his books that Reilly made custom explosives shells designed by him for his use as early as 1853. In addition Reilly made explosive shells for BG Jacobs for his self designed long-range double rifle used by his Pashtun cavalry in Sind and Baluchistan (1854-57). It may well be that Reilly used this knowledge to create his explosive bullet.

However, he never obtained a major contract (as far as the present day evidence goes).

Reilly did sell and engrave British military rifles - Enfields, Snider's, Martini's and later Lee-Speeds; He hawked these guns to the Yoemanry Volunteer Militia and to rifle clubs at wholesale prices, versions of them to Military personnel going abroad and to big-game hunters for 50 years. But, unless he built them himself he did not serial number these guns.

Reilly builds Martini-Henry Rifles:

As an example, the history of Reilly building Martini-Henry rifles/actions is instructive. The M-H was adopted for trial by the Army in summer 1871. Reilly first tentatively advertised a "Henry-Martini" in early to mid 1871. The first true newspaper advertisement by Reilly for a "Martini-Henry" appeared in December 1871.

There are many extant Reilly-made Martini-Henry's in a half-dozen calibers, one being an 8-bore (cal .775), none with serial numbers. He engraved and retailed Martini-Henry and a variant Swinburn-Henry rifles made by others. He may have assembled rifles himself at 315 Oxford Street manufactury using actions and barrels built elsewhere. Yet, like Comblain-Reilly rifles, not one Martini-Henry has been found yet with a Reilly serial number. He apparently did not make these himself and he did not serial number retailed or assembled guns. (Reilly is not alone in this; the lack of a makers’ SN’s on Martini-Henry's may be ubiquitous across the trade; the reasons for this are not fully understood).

As a coda to this, in November 1874, the Henry shallow groove rifling patent from November 1860 was allowed to be extended for another 4 years to November 1878. It subsequently somehow (by a process not yet undersood) was extended again to November 1888. There was some speculation that the extension was tied to the Henry patent rifling being adopted by the military. In fact Henry received £5000 in 1872 from the British government for his patent and no more though he petitioned for a supplement. Certainly there are Reilly SxS rifles numbered in the 1880’s with Henry patent use numbers on them. Henry patents in the USA expired 15 November 1874 per court ruling.

Pin-Fire vs Center Fire

Center Fire inventions were available early in the history of break-action breech-loaders, Lancaster's patent from the late 1850's being an example. However the pin-fire won out for a variety of reasons. By the mid-1860's the advantages of a center-fire system for center-break guns became more and more evident. In 1866 the invention of the shotgun center-fire primer shell by Berdan in America and almost simultaneously by Boxer in the UK made center-fire shotguns practical and viable along with certain other inventions such as the Anson fore-end. In the 1867 Paris Exposition Reilly advertised center-fire long guns. However, center-fire systems did not apparently supplant pin fires until around 1872. Extant Reilly pin-fires far out number center-fire guns until that time.

. . .-- The first existing Reilly center-break center-fire long-gun is a 20 bore under-lever rifle with a Joseph Brazier action SN 13688 dated 1865.

. . .-- Reilly's first extant center-fire shotgun is SxS 12 bore U-L non-rebounding hammer gun SN 14115 dated 1866.

Note: One other invention from this time helped cement centerfire primacy, the invention of rebounding hammers patented by Stanton in February 1867. Most surviving Reilly guns both pinfire and center-fire from this age were later converted to center-fire with rebounding hammers. One would think this was the type of patent that would be immediately adopted. However, the majority of existing, original condition Reilly's up to the 1870's have non-rebounding actions. In fact there continued to be non-rebounding hammers on extant Reilly built guns up until the 1880's (just as there were Reilly built muzzle loaders). The London gun trade was extremely conservative.

Reilly and Purdey

To illustrate the state of Reilly fortunes and confidence at the time, in 1866 there was a widely reported dust-up between Reilly and Purdey. A salesman at Reilly reportedly told a client that essentially Reilly guns were the same as Purdey's but without the extra-charge for a name, implying Reilly made them for Purdey. Purdey was indignant and fired off an emotionally charged letter demanding retraction. Reilly not only rejected the charge but in an infamous poem, quoted several times the phrase "exactly the same"...thumbing his nose at the gun aristocracy. (This is not a way to win friends, obviously)

1867-1870: Reilly Takes on Paris, Again

EM Reilly always seemed to be enamored with Paris and as the 1867 Paris Universelle exposition approached, he meticulously prepared an exhibit that was extensively lauded. It won him gold and silver medals.

Note: Apparently the entire exhibit of Reilly guns at the Paris Universelle was bought by Grand Duke Constantine (son of Czar Nikolas I) and Count Nikolay Alexandrovich Orloff, who was then the Russian ambassador to Belgium, at the time the cockpit flash-point of Europe. (Russia and UK guaranteed Belgian independence)

This led him to became a "gun maker" for Napoleon III, and in February 1868 to open a branch office (EM Reilly & Cie.) at 2 rue Scribe, Paris where orders for his guns could be taken. The store was located in the Grand Hotel near the Gare du Nord, a prime location (British travelers to Paris arrived at the Gare du Nord). This branch office remained open for the next 17 years.

The first extant gun with 2 rue Scribe on the rib is 14983, an 8 bore SxS under-lever, hammer gun shotgun (with a firing system very much resembling the earlier Lancaster "base-fire" action - other observers note that it was very like the Pape patent with retractable firing pins).

Note: The French press in articles about Reilly in the 20th century has claimed that the artistic elegance and balance of a Reilly gun came from its association with Paris.

His case labels changed at this time to feature the two medals won at the 1867 World's Fair and often (but not always) mentioned both branch addresses.

Two and a half years later the Franco-Prussian War broke out. After the battle of Sedan September 3, 1870 Napoleon III fell from power - the Third French Republic was declared; the medals (with Napoleon III's profile on them disappeared from Reilly's case labels for awhile yet continued occasionally to resurface on both labels and in advertisements for the next 15 years.

Note: Napoleon III died in exile in England in 1873. His widow Empress Eugenia bought a Reilly 12 bore SxS shotgun, while in England SN 17532 (dated per the chart to mid 1872), and a second Really 16 bore (SN unknown) both of which are now in the USA somewhere. Her son was killed in the Zulu Wars in 1879. She died in 1920 having been awarded the Order of the British Empire.

Reilly's affinity for France was well known and commented on in London newspapers at the time. (Was this possibly an Irish-French Catholic connection?)
-- A French woman was found in his house in the 1861 census;
-- In Fall 1870 he was prosecuted for attempting to smuggle 2,000 shells to his rue Scribe address, a violation of UK neutrality in the conflict; The London press commented to the effect that this Reilly-Francophile affinity was inevitable (i.e. Reilly "couldn't help himself."). Reilly maintained that the French Republic had invaded his store and confiscated all the guns; he dared not resist their insistence on ammunition. (The cartridges in question were for Snider .577 sporting rifles in Reilly’s inventory in Paris. What happened to his shotguns is unknown).
-- and in 1871 Reilly offered to sell 6,000 Chassepot rifles (stored in Birmingham) to the new French Republic. (Obviously the rifles were to be sent to France via some sort of back-channel; the French parliament - really a sort of 3rd Republic "Revolutionary Committee," hesitated over a few centimes of commission - the opportunity was lost).
-- There are Reilly trade labels from the period where the owner of the gun has taken pains to erase the Paris address - Francophobia was alive and well in UK.
-- And with this long-time connection, one must assume that early on, after the 1851 exposition, EM was in contact with French center-break breech-loader makers and must have been experimenting.
- He had contacts in Liège (as did Trantor or perhaps through Trantor) possibly as early as the 1850's. Whether he spoke French is unknown.

1868-76 Miscellania: New Labels and Descriptions

Around 1869 EM changed the description of the company in ads to "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" (as did many other English gun makers). This description was occasionally but not usually used on his trade/case labels for the next 15 years. There are two extant guns with this phrase on the ribs or barrels:
-- SN 25572, a .450 BPE SxS U-L hammer gun rifle dated 1883
-- SN 26537, a .450 BPE SxS U-L hammer gun rifle dated 1884.

Sometime around the late 1860’s-1870’s 1870 (presumably) for a short time he used a different label for revolvers with only the 315 Oxford Street address, without the scollops or the medals, advertising “Breech Loading Gun and Rifle Manufacturers," which included the phrase, "By appointment to his majesty emperor Napoleon III.

For the record In the early 1870’s Francis Davis was Reilly's shop manager. He was the Reilly employee who testified at the court cases. No further information.

In 1876 some outlier Reilly labels and publicity began advertising a connection to the King of Portugal and by 1882 to the Kings of Spain and The Netherlands.

Also around 1876 315 Oxford Street got its own label back; it was slightly different from the classic 502 label, without scollops and with no scroll work at the bottom.

Reilly and the American Market

From as early as 1868 Reilly evinced an interest in penetrating the American market. He acquired an American agent (Joseph Grubbs, Philadelphia), had his guns advertised in mail order catalogs, and exhibited at the 1876 Philadelphia centennial along side very high-standard British guns such as Purdey, and won a medal. Among other American connections, he was the sole distributer of Sharps rifles in the UK.

1878-80: Situation of the Company

Reilly again exhibited at the 1878 Paris exposition and again won medals. By 1880 Reilly sold a third more - soon to be twice as many - serial numbered, hand made bespoke guns than both Holland and Holland and Purdey combined, this in addition to:
. . .-- a very active business in guns sold under license from well known gun makers including revolvers (Trantor, Baumont-Adams, Walker, Colt, etc), rook rifles, repeating rifles (Sharps, Winchester, etc.),
. . .-- as well as merchandising every type of gun accoutrement - reloaders, cartridges, shells, cases, etc.
. . .-- and sustaining a huge business in previously owned guns.

Reilly told the 1881 census taker that he employed some 300 people in his firm, an extraordinarialy high number for the times, an indication of the extent of his gun manufacturing and sales business. (WW Greener in the same census claimed to employ 140, less than half the number of Reilly; Purdey in 1871 said he employed 58, 1/5th the number of Reilly workers).

Reilly in the early 1880's

Reilly's business was booming and gun production topped 1000 a year. Reilly reportedly was making long guns for other London gun-makers. Note: there is a suspicion that with his large industrial spaces (by London terms) that he was doing this for many years - see the Reilly-Purdey kerfuffle from 1866. As an example,
. . .-- a James Beattie percussion gun made circa 1835 has been found with the locks labeled “Reilly,” a possible indication that Reilly made the gun in the white for Beattie, this in the very early years of Reilly making guns.
. . .-- In 1832 Reilly offer special deals for “country gun makers.”
. . .-- Wilkinson marketed at least on Green Bros Breech loader circa 1868; since Reilly was the sole manufacturer of the Green Bros patent, Reilly had to have made that gun for Wilkinson.

He also around this time allegedly (not confirmed) began importing cheap Belgian-made revolvers in parts which he assembled in his buildings, engraved and sold. (Reilly, like Trantor and others, possibly was involved with the Belgian manufacture and "assembly trade" much earlier...perhaps dating to as early as the 1850's).

He exhibited at the 1882 Calcutta fair (a British Empire only affair) and won a medal and was highly praised for his exhibit at the 1884/85 London International Expositions where he again won medals.

(Note there were three different international expositions in London in 1884-85; An exposition at Crystal Palace; the International Health Exposition of 1884; and the International Inventions Exposition of 1885. Reilly apparently won a gold medal at the Internation Health Exposition though why shotguns were exhibited there is unknown – he publicized the medals only as “London Exhibition 1884.” Reilly also won a silver medal at the International Inventions Exposition but did not publicize it; Reilly's exhibit at this exposition is described in Wyman.)

Reilly guns figured very well in live pigeon shooting contests throughout the 1880's. Reilly won the 1882 year-long Hurlingham manufacturers cup championship per the Holt's Shooting calendar and his pigeon guns from these early 1880 years were specifically built to match the Hurlingham weight limits.

Big game hunters in Africa used his guns and advertised the results including Henry Morton Stanley, the Welsh-American and perhaps the most famous of all African explorers, Dr. David Livingston, and noted Victorian era African hunter and author Frederick Selous. Sir Samuel Baker, the most famous Victorian hunter of all, of course, began using Reilly heavy rifles in the early 1850’s, had Reilly build explosive shells for him, and continued to use his Reilly connection to the end of his hunting life as previously mentioned.

1880: Reilly and the Anson & Deeley Boxlock'

In early 1880 Reilly adopted the boxlock (Anson & Deeley 1875 Patent) and began building them in significant numbers, apparently in marked contrast to other London gun makers.

. . .-- The boxlock looks to have been frowned on by London gunmakers for some reason, possibly as being "plebeian." Yet Reilly publicly embraced it. It fitted his anti-establishment style and his model for selling to the guys actually on the ground carrying their own guns.

. . .-- It may be that Reilly, always a gambler on technological innovation, decided that its simplicity and durability were the future of shotgunning, a conclusion reinforced by early 1880’s writings about Reilly and his advertisements.

. . .-- However, at the same time Reilly was dramatically expanding serial numbered production from 650 to over 1000 a year and had decided to "sell off the rack." The A&D boxlock would certainly have simplified the manufacturing process. Reilly could have tried to produce these himself at least early on..he had the ego and the manufacturing space.

. . .-- Equally possible, is that Reilly began to avail himself of Birmingham produced actions. Buying boxlock actions from Birmingham and finishing them in London, as just about the entire trade did at the time, would be a logical business step. Birmingham was fully geared up to producing boxlocks by 1880. However, Birmingham box-lock actions usually have workers' initials on them someplace. None have yet to be found on a Reilly box-lock but this type of information is not usually published by auction houses.

. . .-- SN 22482 (1880): The first surviving Reilly box-lock is SN 22482 (1880), a 12 gauge top lever shot gun, A&D Patent use number 1156. Almost 30% of the surviving Reilly’s from 1881 to 1912, both rifles and shotguns, are boxlocks.

1882: Selling Off The Rack

In late 1881 per advertisements it appears that Reilly made a business decision to stock ready-made guns and sell them off-the-rack as well as selling his usual bespoke made-to-order guns. This might account for the soaring number of guns serial numbered per year, which grew from about 650 numbered in 1880 to some 1050 in 1882. It might also account for certain discrepancies in serial numbered guns from this time forward such as 303xx which would have been numbered in late 1888-early 1889 but still has "Not For Ball" on its barrels (a stamping discontinued in 1887).

If this were the case, Reilly possibly serial numbered his bespoke guns when ordered (usual London practice) and his off-the-rack guns when sold. (When knowledgable gun historians and makers were queried about this phenomena - guns with pre-1887 proof marks apparently made after that date - they shrugged and said essentially that no-one can logically explain the process at the time - some gun makers ignored or stretched the law; some used barrels already proofed..etc.)

The decision to vastly expand production and sell ready-made guns may mark the origin of a trend towards marketing Birmingham-made guns finished in London to satisfy demand, supplementing Reilly’s own production which seemed to max out at about 650 a year per the below chart. Scott "Triplex" actions found on several 1880's Reilly's may be an example (along with the above mentioned pivot to making Anson & Deeley boxlocks).
. . .-- (This said, Scott usually managed to put a Scott number on his guns and actions - none have been found on Reilly's and the Reilly Scott Triplex actions have on their barrels "Improved Patent" for some reason or another. Thus it is also entirely possible that Reilly built them under license. As usual all Reilly serial number guns continued to proofed in London).

1882: Reilly and Steel Barrels'

In addition in January 1882 he advertised for the first time guns equipped with Whitworth compressed fluid steel barrels (originally a 1865 patent extended in 1879 for 5 years).

. . .-- SN 24365: The first extant Reilly with a confirmed Whitworth barrel is SN 24365, a 12 gauge SxS pigeon gun with 31” barrels - top lever, side lock, low hammers, flat file cut rib. It is dated per the chart to 1882.
. . .-- SN 19953: (There is a Reilly .500 SxS BPE rifle from 1876 SN 19953, which appears to have steel barrels; however they may be blued Damascus, the gun description being minimal.)

November 1881: Change in numbering of Oxford Street

In November 1881 Oxford Street was renumbered; "502" became "16 New Oxford Street" and "315" becoming "277 Oxford Street." The first extant gun with either of the new addresses on the ribs is SN 23536, a 12 ga. SxS BLE shotgun with E.M. Reilly & Co, 277 Oxford St., London on the rib.

In spite of the formal change in numbering, the old numbers occasionally appeared in Reilly ads and on gun ribs for the next couple of years.

As for labels a 16, New Oxford Street label with rue Scribe exists obviously post November 1881 and pre July 1885. However, the Reilly trade label used at 315 Oxford Street does not appear to have changed definitively to the new numbering system until after rue Scribe closed in 1885; no "277 Oxford Street, London" labels with the Paris branch have so far been found. (There are a very limited number of the 277 labels for this time period uncovered so far; one may still turn up).

For the record, Reilly’s apparent shop foremen during the early 1880’s was a well-known gunsmith named Ruben Hambling. Hambling had possibly begun working for Reilly in the late 1850’s and had previously owned his own gun making shop in Manchester.

1884-1885: Reilly outlier label

Two examples of a Reilly "outlier" label from this period have been found. It is for 16, New Oxford Street and mentions both 277 Oxford Street and 2 rue Scribe Paris. It has the coats of arms of the Kings of Portugal, Spain and Netherlands and mentions “wholesale and retail.” How this Reilly label fits into the label chronology is unclear.

July 1885: Closure of the Paris Branch

In July 1885 rue Scribe was closed. The reasons for this are not known - hand made guns were being sold at a very high rate; it may have had to do with the departure of a long-time partner (possibly a M. Poirat? M. Poirat was the agent for Reilly in 1871, mentioned in French parliamentary records when Reilly tried to sell the stock of Chassepot rifles in Birmingham to the French Republic.).

The last extant SN'd gun with rue Scribe on the rib is 27340, address on the rib being “New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris.” It is a 12 bore SxS top-lever, hammer-gun, shotgun.

1885-1886: Possible satellite Paris address at 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honoré, Paris

Sometime in early 1885 Reilly apparently opened a small satellite branch of 2 rue Scribe, Paris at 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honoré, Paris for a short time.

Six different gun case labels have been found with this address. One such label appears on SN 26880, a gun dated to Feb 1885. However, this label also is found in a case housing SN 22432, dated 1880 and bought by a man who died in 1882 (the label obviously was added later, possibly after a repair).

The rue du Faubourg labels are generally in the classic post 1861 Reilly format but are not scolloped. They feature the usual main 16, New Oxford Steet address with the 277 Oxford street branch; the rue du Faubourg address is located where 2 rue Scribe had been for 17 years. The labels illustrate the 1867 Paris medals in the upper left hand corner and the 1884 London international exposition medals in the right. This seemingly dates these labels and correspondingly the existence of this shop from late 1884 or early 1885.

There is an argument as to whether rue du Faubourg existed after Reilly closed 2 rue Scribe late July 1885. The argument is summarized below:

. . .-- Evidence against the existance of rue du Faubourg after 31 July 1885 closure of 2 rue Scribe:
. . . . .- No newspaper advertisements for this branch exist. It was a prestigious location - Coco Chanel's apartments were above it in another century. It should have been publicized by Reilly had it been more than a transient sales shop.
. . . . .- No extant guns have thus far been found with this address on their ribs.
. . . . .- After July 1885 there is no mention of “Paris” in any of the Reilly advertisements in the mass popular daily papers.

. . .-- Evidence for the existence of rue du Faubourg after July 1885.

. . . . .- In addition to very fashionable Paris shops, Some Parisian gun makers had factories/workshops/show rooms on rue du Faubourg. The road was also the heart of the English speaking community living in Paris a la “Belle Époque” including the home of the British ambassador to France. A sales-shop in that area would seem to be a logical Reilly commercial decision.

. . . . .- There are three extant Reilly guns with 1886 serial numbers – i.e. after the close of 2 rue Scribe - which have "Paris" on their barrels. Two of these are SxS's built on the Scott "triplex" system. Counter argument: The guns or barrels could have been labeled before the closure of 2 rue Scribe and used a year later.

. . . . .-There are magazine advertisements stretching into 1886 for Reilly at "Paris." Counter argument: Some of these are long term advertisements that were not changed over a couple of years.

. . . . .- New scroll work is found on the bottom of the rue du Faubourg label. This scroll work is very similar (but not identical) to that found on the 16, New Oxford Street label used after the closure of rue Scribe and which has no Paris address at all. Counter argument: The scroll work on the rue du Faubourg label seems to precede that later used on the stand-alone 16, New Oxford Street label with no Paris address. Perhaps the rue du Faubourg label preceded the 16, New Oxford Street (no Paris) label.

. . . . .- A paid-for article appeared in the January 1886 London press touting a win at the Monte Carlo pigeon shoot by Italian champion pigeon shooter Giuseppe Guidicini using a Reilly with the rue du Faubourg address. Monte Carlo was the most prestigous international pigeon shooting event; Guidicini won it three times. Whether the address was on the rib of his gun or on the trade/case label is unknown. Guidicini’s gun likely was built by Reilly at the beginning of the 1885 pigeon shooting season, Monte Carlo being the last event of the 1885 shooting year. Counter argument: The gun may have only had the London address on the rib and Guidicini took the shop address from the label. Counter-counter argument: The paid for articles in four London papers were likely placed by Reilly not by Guidicini. If so, Reilly at the time had no compunctions about advertising a rue du Faubourg address; whether this was for prestige (Paris) or because he was indeed still in Paris is yet to be determined.

For now pending a review of Parisian property records, the existance of rue du Faubourg from circa early 1885 to early-mid-1886 will be presumed. The lack of advertising for the shop is perplexing, however, and this question will continue to be investigated.

July 1885: Change in Reilly labels

The labels for both London branches changed slightly with the closure of 2 rue Scribe on 31 July 1985. The new labels retained the essence of the original 1861 labels:

. . .-- 16, New Oxford Street, continued with the scolloped corners, double outlining following the model of the 1861 and 1868 labels. It has the 1867 medals in the upper left corner but with the 1884 London International Exposition gold medal in the upper right. It also advertised different guns in the scroll work at the bottom of the label.

. . .-- 277, Oxford Street also continued its label tradition without the scollops or border lining but some of the descriptions in scroll work in the center of the label were changed.

Reilly in the Late 1880's:

Reilly exhibited at the 1889 Paris World's Fair, the "Tour Eiffel" Exposition Universalle, and won a silver medal. However, for some reason he chose not to publicize the medal. Wesley-Richards won the overall gold medal and every English gunmaker entered in the exposition was awarded a silver medal; perhaps Reilly felt this degraded the accomplishment.

A nasty law-suit on easement limitations to the Salavation Army Hall behind his establishment at 277 Oxford Street was litigated. The legal decision is cited to this day.

The fact is, something changed with the firm after 1886; Reilly's guns regularly won competitions and were donated to be given as prizes at high-end shooting competitions; but the company just gradually retracted from mass-media print. The cocky swagger of the 1860's seemed to have burnt itself out.

1890: Death of E.M. Reilly and aftermath

In July 1890 EM Reilly contracted broncho-pneumonia and passed away.

Of Reilly's “acknowledged” sons Charles A. was 20, Herbert H. was 15, and Gerald Atol was 13 - all still in school, none apparently with the hands-on gun-making expertise that EM had in his upbringing. His first "son" Edward Montague was 23 (see below).

His wife Mary Ann was in her 40's. Business was still lively. Widows did successfully manage companies in England at the time after the deaths of their husbands. In his will E.M specifically did not leave his wife the "trade books." However, newspaper articles on the later death of her son Edward Montague indicate that Mary was indeed running the company during this time.

With EM’s death, somehow the light of Reilly entrepreneurship went out. Mary Ann Reilly had to operate in a "man's world" and no matter how strong willed, there were serious obstacles for her.

Subsequently, his sons did not seem to have the hands-on knowledge of the gun manufacturing trade that EM had hammered into him in the 1830's. Nor did they have the generational connections to the business, or the understanding of the complex entertwinings of its execution. The gun-trade was always a sort of dance while juggling a number of balls
-- relationship to outworkers,
-- handling in-house bench workers,
-- dealing with importation of parts (from Belgium) and the licensing for manufacturing others' patents,
-- contacts with Birmingham mass production factories
-- kow-towing to the upper class,
-- staying abreast of market trends,
-- and always advertising and promoting.

By the time Bert actually exerted control over the company, surely around 1899, its reputation and place in the English gun-making fraternity had been seriously eroded. (And Bert not bothering to attend assemblies of English gun-makers probably didn't help - fraternization, even in a cut-throat business, always is a plus).

Characterizing the Reilly's:

This study has not looked at the Reilly family except where it effects the business; however, here are some possible characterizations of the Reilly's based on very limited information, much from Sally Nestor, family researcher.

-- J.C. Reilly comes across as something of an early 19th century, self-absorbed narcissist (this from one possibly extremely prejudiced source) . Yet, he registered a silver mark - not something one can just do without true expertise and apprenticeship, and per John Campbell, not independently confirmed, he was a clock-maker and a member of the "Clockmakers" guild. JC apparently had some serious mechanical skills. He appears to have been rebellious, snarky, egotistical and independent, and probably was a difficult and demanding boss, husband, father. His wife left him, and a couple of his children apparently wanted nothing to do with him. But, he had allies in the gun world, i.e. a relationship with John Blanch from pretty much the time when he first began to build his own guns (a deduction from very limited evidence - Blanch kept Reilly advertisements from the 1840’s era in his private scrap book).

-- E.M. Reilly appears to have been an imaginative, far-sighted, organized, ambitious businessman (based on his business record). He also worked with his father from an early age in the gun making business and had extensive hands-on experience in making guns and air guns. He had some excellent political connections in the gun trade - the same group of gun makers appear repeatedly together in the late 1850-early 1860 time period - Prince, Green, Deane, Reilly, Blanch, and a couple of others - and given that he manufactured well in excess of 5,000 Comblain breech loaders (presumably in Birmingham) in the 1860's, he had connections there as well. He had to have had some people skills. He had a talent for recognizing promising new patents and was not afraid to build them to suit or to take technological business risks trying to anticipate market demand. He was definitely a francophile in an English world where France conjured up the image of a 1000 year old structural enemy. He was perhaps a bit of a control freak and probably not easy to be around - especially if you were his son. (The Victorian age was not a "huggy-feely" one) (this only from interpreting the wording in his will).

-- The first son, Edward Montague Reilly b.1867 probably was the pre-marriage offspring of then 50 year old EM and his then 21 year old future wife Mary. Four sons were born to EM and Mary, all technically out of wedlock; However, only Edward Montague was called a "reputed" son by his father. Edward Montague was an "engineer" and "gun maker" following in his father's footsteps and was designated as an executor of EM's will (along with Mary). He apparently later worked on locomotives. In about 1893 he came down with tuberculosis and ultimately fell from an upper window at 277 Oxford Street in July 1895.

-- EM's wife Mary Ann was a woman operating in a "man's world" after his death. The fact that she apparently ran the company for 9 years from 1890-99 is a testament to her pluckiness. There is not much known about her except by analysis. She was born in 1845. No-one knows who were her parents or her background; family historians speculate that she was E.M.'s cousin. Even her maiden name is not clear - it is either Curtis or "C-o-x." At the age of 20 she seduced a 50 year old successful businessman, ignoring convention. She had 4 sons out of "wedlock" one of which may not have been his; something or someone kept them from formally marrying until the late 1870’s. After EM’S death, in spite of very specifically not being left the "trade books," she apparently took over and ran a large company in Victorian, England. This is something movies are made for - sex, guns, money and power. Her offspring included later Members of Parliament. She died 12 January 1899. She deserves more attention. Yet, under her guidance the company began steadily to contract. She had neither the insight into the gun business nor the connections to keep the company afloat.

Mid-1890's: Reilly’s decline

By 1895, the death of Edward Montague, Reilly guns were no longer being mentioned as often as winners in pigeon shoots; Reilly victories and promotional donations of guns as prizes had been a prominent feature in London papers for 25 years. And yet, advertisments for the firm's products continued to fill the newspapers; and due to reputation, Reilly was still being mentioned in books at the turn of the century as a company which could make quality Africa-proof big-bore rifles.

May 1897: Closure of 16, New Oxford Street

In early May 1897 the company closed 16 New Oxford Street where it had been located for 50 years; 277 Oxford Street remained open. Bespoke guns continued to be sold in the early 1890's at a goodly clip but as the decade advanced for some reason the demand for these hand-made and measured guns in a middling cost category seemed to decline. Reilly serial numbered gun production dwindled. The company's mangement after 1890 did not seem to have E.M.'s business sense or "touch” and his guns began to seem a bit old-fashioned.

With sales diminishing, closing the finishing facilities at 16 New Oxford street while retaining the smaller sales and manufacturing spaces at 277 Oxford Street would seem logical. The last extant SN'd gun from 16 New Oxford Street is 34723, a 12 bore SxS, top-lever, Damascus-barrelled, hammer-gun, shotgun. Note: This quite elegant gun has Birmingham proofed barrels; It may be further evidence that as Reilly declined after EM's death, the company increasingly relied on out-sourced gun parts (as did most of London gunmakers).

For the record the Reilly shop manager at the time of this closure was James Curtis, no additional information.

1893-97: label changes

Within a couple of years after EM's death the company's descriptions on Reilly's presentation cases changed back to "Gun and Rifle makers" although the company was still "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" in phone and business directories.

After May 1897 the trade/case label changed. 16 New Oxford Street was of course dropped as was the entire old format label used since 1860. The new “modern” label displayed four sets of medals won in 1876 (Philadelphia), 1878 (Paris), and 1884 (London) and 1873 (Vienna) (although there is no evidence that Reilly actually exhibited in Vienna) and advertised “magazine guns.”

Death of Mary Ann Reilly, 1899:

In January 1899 Mary Ann Reilly died - she was only 54. Apparently H.H. (Bert) Reilly, E.M's third son, then only 24 years old, took over the management of the company.

Move to 295 Oxford-Street, 1903-4:

In March 1903 the Company vacated 277 Oxford-Street where they had been quartered for 44 years while the building was being renovated and moved 300 yards down the street to 295 Oxford-Street. The last extant gun made at 277 Oxford Street should be 35394 a 12 gauge SxS BLE shotgun with steel sleeved barrels (thus no address). The first extant gun with 295 Oxford Street, London on the rib is 35398, a 12 ga. SxS BLE shotgun, dated by the below chart to May 1904.

The trade label continued to be the 1897 “4 medal” label but with “277” crossed out and “295” stamped above.

Note: Newspaper ads for Reilly stopped in late February 1903 while Reilly was still at 277, and did not resume again until May 1904 with the shop located at 295 Oxford Street. Thus it appears that Reilly closed down completely for 14 months. Reilly only made about 175 guns from the time of the move from 277 to bankruptcy in June 1912, a sad commentary on the end of a storied firm.

1904-1912: Reilly reduced to finishing guns bought in the white?

With this possible shutdown of the company for 14 months, it is hard to imagine that Bert could have kept his gunsmiths employed. In addition, from the time the company reopened until bankruptcy eight years later, only a very small number of guns were serial numbered by Reilly, less than 25 a year. Thus it is hard to imagine Reilly after May 1904 as a complete gun-making firm as it was in the heady days of JC and EM. Bert Reilly probably resorted to finishing guns provided by outworkers in the white and concentrated on repairing and updating guns.

There are Reilly guns with serial numbers from the 1880’s that bear the 295 address on the barrel or case placed after they had obviously been brought in for new barrels or for service. His case labels and advertisements seem to confirm this.

There is one Reilly SN 35612 which has a serial number on the barrel for Holloway. This is one of the very few serial numbered Reilly’s, which appear to have been built definitively by a firm other than Reilly himself. The Holloway SN would date the gun to 1911. This in and of itself is significant since it skews the “numbered guns built chart” per below.

This said, there are other Reilly’s including an extant pair, which have no outside-worker marks on them as far as can be determined from auction house advertisements.

June 1912: Bankruptcy

The company remained at 295 until bankruptcy was declared on 06 June 1912 (publicized on 08 June 1912 in the London Monday morning papers). The last extant gun with 295 on the rib is 35678, a 12 bore SxS BLE shotgun. Reportedly during this period at least one gun was built with "J.C. Reilly" and the old "Holborn Bars" address on the rib.

Note: Per advertisements in September 1911 the company announced it was for sale or in need of new partners with cash. Its stock of guns was advertised at reduced prices for cash only. In December 1911 the company was changed to a limited liability company with "CW Roberts" (probably G. Watkinson Roberts - liquidator specialist) as one of the directors. Roberts was a bankruptcy lawyer. Reilly's continued advertising 295 for sale in Spring 1912 per newspaper advertisements. It appears Bert Reilly knew bankruptcy was coming and changed the company to protect his personal assets. He retained his separate homes after bankruptcy.

1912-1918: 13 High Street, Marylebone

Bert Reilly opened a small gun shop, E.M Reilly & Co., at 13 High Street, Marylebone in 1912 after the bankruptcy. No advertisements can be found for the shop though per London postal address, telephone and business directories they identified themselves as "gunmakers." No guns with this address on the rib have been found. The date of its closure is not noted although it is listed in the London telephone directory in 1918 (but not in 1919).

(Note: one internet site claims that 13 High Street was occupied by Reilly as early as December of 1911 while 295 was for sale; no footnotes or validation of this claim were published. It has not been verified. London directories and telephone directories do not seem to support this assertion.)

Charles Riggs era, 1922-1966:

In August 1922 The Reilly name was bought by a sporting goods dealer named Charles Riggs (most Reilly history summaries put the date of purchase as 1917; this is belied by the dates of newspaper advertising). Riggs apparently decided he could use the name to promote his premium line of guns (possibly built by Osborne/Midland).

Riggs-Reilly guns usually have "E.M. Reilly & Co., London" on the ribs; Sometimes "E.M. Reilly & Co., Ltd." As a further identifier, a lot of the Rigg's-Reilly's have "Prince of Wales" half pistol grip stocks (something the original Reilly firm almost never made.) Riggs'-Reilly named guns have six-digit serial numbers and appear to begin at around 128000. (The earliest Riggs serial number so far identified is 128466). A Riggs "Reilly" with a serial number in the 150000's is known to exist.

Riggs was quite a self-promoting character and comes across in advertisements and articles as something of an annoying, pretentious, status-climbing, con man with a large ego and a huge amount of hubris and energy. There are pictures of him medalled like a royal prince claiming marksmanship trophies that the historical record doesn't support; he billed himself as a yeomanry sergeant early on but had promoted himself to Lieutenant later on in life. He very well could have rubbed the gun establishment the wrong way.

Comment: Reading Rigg's letters to the London Press etc., can be grating. The man would have made millions in the USA with his energy and without the class chip on his shoulder. In UK the way he presented himself and his business might have resonated with the BSA motorcycle crowd, which were his customers also, but likely was deadly to the upper classes; he made a lot of money - but apparently not a lot of friends in the close-knit gun making fraternity.

Whether a Reilly was involved in the design of the Riggs-Reilly's is not known. The Riggs guns are not ugly...but are now regarded as "journeyman guns," made in Birmingham of medium quality.

Riggs remained in business until 1966.

Conclusion:

The Reilly's sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1828 to 1912, all built by them. The guns that they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. Reilly was one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was in a unique style and consistently classy. Reilly's best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.

Gene Williams, Sep 05, 2018; last updated 03 Dec 2021

See follow-on SN dating chart w/footnotes:
======================== SN Date Chart ==========================

Year. . . . . . . . . . . .Serial Numbers. . . . . . . # of SN'd guns made in 1 year
. . . Black-Main Chronology; Blue: JC "7000" series. . . . . . .*Marker footnotes. **Sanity checks

1828: . . 001 - . .050 - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50. .*1. .12 Middle-row, Holborn Bars
1829: . . 051 - . .180. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .130
1830: . . 181 - . .320. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .140
1831: . . 321 - . .460. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .140
1832: . . 461 - . .600. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .140
1833: . . 601 - . .750. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .150
1834: . . 751 - . .900. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .150
1835: . . 901 - .1060. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180. .*2. .Aug-move to 316 High Holborn
1836: ..1061 - .1240. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180
1837: ..1241 - .1420. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180
1838: ..1421 - .1600. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180
1839: ..1601 - .1810. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 210
1840: ..1811 - .2040. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 230
1841: ..2041 - .2270. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 230
1842: ..2271 - .2500. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 230
1843: ..2501 - .2730. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 230
1844: ..2731 - .2960. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 230
1845: ..2961 - .3180. + 7000 - 7020 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .240
1846: ..3181 - .3330. + 7021 - 7130 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .260. .*3,*4
1847: ..3331 - .3350. + 7131 - 7230. + 8350 - 8480 - . . . . .250. .*5,*6. .**1. 7201. .Mar-move to 502 New Oxford St.
1848: ..8481 - .8640. + 7231 - 7330. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 270
1849: ..8641 - .8800. + 7331 - 7440. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
1850: ..8801 - .8960. + 7441 - 7540. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 290
1851: ..8961 - .9130. + 7541 - 7640. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 290
1852: ..9131 - .9300. + 7641 - 7740. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 290
1853: ..9301 - .9490. + 7741 - 7830. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 290
1854: ..9491 - .9680. + 7831 - 7930. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 290
1855: ..9681 - .9870. + 7931 - 8030. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 290
1856: ..9871- 10170. + 8031 - 8130. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400. . . . ..**2. many orders after Paris. .**3. 10054
1857: 10171 - 10510. + 8131 - 8200. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 410. .*7
1858: 10511 - 10930. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 420. .*8 . .**4. 10655. .**5. 10782. .**6. 10811. .Aug - 315 Oxford St. opened
1859: 10931 - 11340. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430. .*9. .**7. 11227. .Apr - Name change to EM Reilly & Co.
1860: 11341 - 11770. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430. . . . .**8. 11716
1861: 11771 - 12210. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430
1862: 12211 - 12740. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430. . . . .**9. 12532
1863: 12741 - 13170. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430
1864: 13171 - 13600. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430. . . . .**10. 13326/33. .Jan-JC Reilly died
1865: 13601 - 14030. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430
1866: 14031 - 14460. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430
1867: 14461 - 14910. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 450
1868: 14911 - 15510. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600. .*10 . .Feb-2 rue Scribe opened
1869: 15511 - 16110. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
1870: 16111 - 16710. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
1871: 16711 - 17310. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
1872: 17311 - 17910. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
1873: 17911 - 18510. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
1874: 18511 - 19140. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 630
1875: 19141 - 19780. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 640. . . . .**11. 19286
1876: 19781 - 20430. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 650
1877: 20431 - 21080. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 650. . . . .**12. 20623
1878: 21081 - 21730. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 650
1879: 21731 - 22380. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 650
1880: 22381 - 22930. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 650
1881: 22931 - 23630. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 800. .*11. **13. 23536. .**14. 23574. .Nov-Oxford St. renumbered
1882: 23631 - 24680. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1050. . . . .**15. 24534
1883: 24681 - 25730. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1050
1884: 25731 - 26780. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1050
1885: 26781 - 27820. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1040. .*12. .July-2 rue Scribe closed
1886: 27821 - 28720. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 900
1887: 28721 - 29520. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 800
1888: 29521 - 30300. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 780
1889: 30301 - 31000. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 700. . . . .**16. 30768
1890: 31001 - 31680. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 680. .Jul-EM Reilly died
1891: 31681 - 32280. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
1892: 32281 - 32830. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 550
1893: 32831 - 33280. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 450
1894: 33281 - 33720. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 440
1895: 33721 - 34150. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430
1896: 34151 - 34670. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 420
1897: 34671 - 34920. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 250. .*13. .May-16 New Oxford St. closed
1898: 34921 - 35080. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 160
1899: 35081 - 35180. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100. .Jan-Mary Ann Reilly died
1900: 35181 - 35255. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 75. . . . .**17. 35186
1901: 35256 - 35325. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70
1902: 35326 - 35385. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60
1903: 35386 - 35395. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10. .*14. .Feb-277 Oxford St. closes
1904: 35396 - 35435. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40. .*14. .May-295 Oxford St. opens
1905: 35436 - 35485. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40
1906: 35486 - 35535. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40
1907: 35536 - 35565. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40. . . . .**18. 35554
1908: 35566 - 35595. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20
1909: 35596 - 35625. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
1910: 35626 - 35655. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
1911: 35656 - 35685. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 85. . . . .**19. 35614
1912: 35686 - 35700. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5. .*15. .June-Bankrupt; vacate 295 Oxford St

Post Aug 1922 - ? 128000 - 153000. - . . . . . . . . . . . . 25,000?. .*16

==================== Footnotes ====================

Methodology
-- Reilly serial numbered some 33,000 guns from c1825-1912. The chart is based on an analysis of over 380 surviving Reilly serial numbered guns and thousands of articles about and advertisements for Reilly in 19th century print media. However, the chart is modified as additional guns/into come to light.
-- The chart is designed to allow a Reilly owner to date his gun within a few months of its being serial numbered; it is more accurate from 1855 to 1905 due to the number of surviving guns.

Caveats:
-- Reilly did not serial number guns he did not make.
-- When 001 was numbered is unknown; Summer 1828 was chosen as a start date because of newspaper ads. Reilly was NOT on a list of London gunmakers published in 1825. The first existing gun is SN
88 a pair of .50 cal. percussion pistol duelers.
-- Reilly originally serial numbered pistols; that ended circa 1837.
-- The number of guns numbered per year are estimates based on date markers - the addresses on the ribs/barrels based on specific events such as moves to new addresses or change in address numbers which are historically proven. Obviously numbers actually made each year varied. The curve has been smoothed as much as possible to eliminate wild swings and verified by
sanity checks."
-- There is a huge uptick in numbers in 1881-82. Reilly apparently made the business decision to stock guns and sell ready-made/off-the-rack. If so he may have numbered them when sold, accounting for some discrepancies. His bespoke guns were probably numbered when ordered per general London practice
-- Patent numbers or patent use numbers on guns can help date a gun; 1) but many guns were modified/up-graded; 2) patent use numbers were rarely chronological. Manufacturers bought blocs of numbers in some cases. 3) Almost all pin-fires, the dominant SxS from the 1850's to about 1872 were modified to center fire. Ditto for non-rebounding hammers. 4)In addition the relationship of patent use numbers to gun Serial Number cannot be ascertained easily. For instance Henry patent rifling would be stamped on tubes - but when these tubes were stamped in relationship to when the serial number for the gun was entered on the books is not clear. 5) So patent numbers and patent use numbers can be sanity checks but no proof of date of manufacture. (example: SN
30768. A&D Boxlock patent number 8245. The SN dates the gun to late summer 1889. The A&D patent expired September 1889. No A&D use number should be on a gun after that date.)
-- Reilly prided himself on delivering bespoke guns in 1-3 months vice the 2-3 years of other makers. The guns would have been serial-numbered upon order. However, the SN chronology is based on rib/barrel-addresses from 15 or so key date-marker guns. These addresses would have been engraved and the ribs/barrels blacked/browned shortly before delivery. Thus serial numbers may precede the rib-addresses by several months.


*Marker Footnotes
*1 - Summer 1828 - Chosen as the start date for Reilly making guns. Reilly was NOT mentioned in an 1825 list of London gun-makers. Reilly was never a Freeman of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers. The first ad in the London newspapers specifically for Reilly made guns so far found is in 1830. However, a July 1828 ad is pretty clear that he was selling guns made by him. Likewise, 001 is chosen as the number of the first gun. 1st extant SN'd gun is SN 88, a pair of Damascus barreled hexagonal .50 percussion pistols. Address on barrels is "J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London."
*2 - Late Aug 1835 - Reilly moved to 316 High Holborn; 1st SN'd gun with High Holborn is 1024
*3 - Late 1845/early 1846 - JC Reilly appears to have split his main-line serial numbers with a series he kept for himself beginning around 7000. SN 7023 is the first of these with JC Reilly on the rib but still with the High Holborn address.
*4 - Last main-line SN with High Holborn on the rib is 3329.
*5 - Late March 1847 - Reilly moved to 502 New Oxford Street. The main line SN series was bumped up 5000 numbers; 1st SN'd gun with 502 along with "removed from Holborn" is 8378. (Note: This is a hypothesis since this gun was advertised as "8578," a number which another gun already carries. This gun is a J.C. Reilly SxS gun with the New Oxford St. address and "Removed from Holborn" on the label. (Reilly used the phrase "removed from Holborn" in his advertisements from early April 1847 to late November 1847; by December 1847 it had vanished).
*6 - First JC Reilly 7000 series with 502 Oxford is 7201 which also has "removed from Holborn" on the label.
*7 - early September 1857: JC retired; the last extant SN in the JC Reilly "7000" series (with "Veni, Vidi, Vici" on the rib) is 8186.
*8 - Circa 01 August 1858 - 315 Oxford Street opened . The company may have used the name "Reilly & Co., for a short while from this time to October 1859. The first gun with "Oxford St." and "Reilly & Co." is 10811 dated per the chart Fall 1858.
*9 - October 1859 - The company name changed definitively to E.M. Reilly & Co.; The 1st extant SN'd gun with EM Reilly on the rib is 11227.
*10 - mid Feb 1868 - Reilly opened 2 rue Scribe Paris; 1st extant SN'd gun with rue Scribe on the rib is 14983.
*11 - Nov 1881 - Oxford Street was renumbered; 1st extant Reilly with 277 Oxford street (or 16 New Oxford St.) on the rib is 23536.
*12 - July 1885 - Reilly closed rue Scribe; last extant Reilly with "rue Scribe" on the rib is 27340. *(Note: There are 3 later guns SN 27533, 27570 and 27854 with "Paris" on their barrels. All three have Whitworth steel barrels and are built on Scott Climax triplex actions. I've chosen not to use these as the end marker for rue Scribe, at least not yet; Reilly at this time was selling both off-the-rack/ready-made guns and bespoke guns made-to-order and I believe these may have been already engraved and sitting in the shop, but not numbered until sold. This is a subjective judgement of course. Additional serial numbers may change this.)
*13 - May 1897 - Reilly closed 16 (502) New Oxford Street. Last extant SN'd gun with 16 New Oxford Street on the rib is 34723.
*14 - March 1903 - - Reilly moved from 277 Oxford St. to 295 Oxford st. The last advertisement for 277 appeared in late February 1903. The first advertisement for the new workshop at 295 Oxford Street appeared in early May 1904, leaveing the possibility that Reilly completely shut down for 14 months. First extant gun with 295 on the rib is 35398
*15 - June 8, 1912 - Reilly declared bankruptcy. Last extant SN'd gun is 35678. Bert Reilly subsequently opened a small gun shop at 13 High Street, Marylebone as "E.M Reilly & Co.", which lasted to about 1918-early 1919; no guns with this address on ribs have been found, no advertisements for it exist.
*16 - August 1922 - (date confirmed-per newspaper advertisements) the Reilly name was bought by Charles Riggs. The name/address on the ribs was "EM Reilly & Co., London." Riggs' had historical connections to BSA - however, some believe his guns were built by Osborn/Midland. The serial numbers became 6 digits apparently beginning around 128000 - The first extant Riggs-Reilly so far found is 128466; the last is 150570. How many of these "Reilly" Riggs guns were produced or how Riggs' numbering system actually worked is not clear. In addition to 6 digit serial numbers most "Riggs-Reilly's" had "Prince of Wales" stocks. The original Reilly's almost never had this stock (as far as current research goes).

Sanity Checks:
**1. - 7201 would have been serial numbered in late summer-fall 1847. It has the 502 New Oxford St. address (post 23 March 1847) and the label "removed from Holborn" (which existed from April 1847 through November 1847.
**2. - After his triumph at Paris in 1855 - "all guns were sold and many orders booked." The increase in production by 200 guns for 1856 reflects this.
**3. 10054 - Earliest 1858 Reilly center-break, pin-fire gun found dated to Fall 1856 per the chart. Post 1855 label; Matching the earliest Reilly advertisement known for Fusils a Bascule which appeared in the London newspapers on 04 October 1856.
**4. 10655 - Early 1858 Reilly pinfire on the Lefaucheux principle; No one in UK could have made that gun for Reilly other than Lang or possibly Blanch; "The Field" mentioned at this time that Reilly along with Blanch and Lang were "overdone with orders" for breech loaders, likely the reason that in Aug 1858 he opened "the Manufactory" at "Arsenal House," 315 Oxford Street - to satisfy this demand.
**5. 10782 - He began making under license Prince Patent breech loaders soon after the Patent, probably as early as 1857. The gun was serial numbered in early Fall 1858 - 1st Prince Patent gun.
**6. 10811 This Prince patent gun is dated to Autumn 1858. It has "Reilly & Co. Oxford Street, London" on the barrel. "Oxford St" would indicate it were made at 315 Oxford St. opened first week of August 1858. "Reilly & Co., apparently was used from this time August 1858 to Fall 1859. (There are no pictures to confirm the Christies advertisement). 1st extant gun completed at 315 Oxford St.
**7. 11227 - Reilly began using "E.M. Reilly & Co." in Sep-Oct 1859. 11227 is the first extant gun with "E.M. Reilly & Co" on the gun rib and would be dated in Autumn 1859 per the chart.
**8. 11716 - Reilly .577 Enfield given as a prize Christmas 1860 per an inscription on the gun; The chart has the gun being numbered in late November, early December 1860.
**9. 12532 - In 1862 the London Exposition ran from late May to September. His exhibit included a gold washed muzzle-loader shotgun, much commented on at the time, which may still exist. If this is the exposition gun the chart has it being numbered around July 1862 rather than the start of the exposition in May. However, the article describing it was written in September 1862, validating the date chart.
**10. 13326-13333 - Reilly obtained manufacturing rights to the Green Bros Breech loader and per a post on this board began to manufacture them about Apr-May 1864. 13326 is pat use #16; 13333 is use #23...The chart has them both being numbered about May 1864 very early in Reily’s manufacturing of the gun. Interestingly it looks as if Reilly produced at least 8 Green Bros guns in succession 13326 (#16) to 333 (#23). The #1 Green Bros gun does exists but it looks as if this were an Enfield produced in 1861 which was modified with the Green Brothers action.
[b]**11. 19286
. The below comment about 19286 was posted on a knowledgeable UK board. The chart has 19286 as being numbered in early 1875:
. . . . . . ."The action flats have the expected View mark, and they have the H Walker patent mark for his barrel bolting and safety for drop-down actions patent No 455 of 12 February 1872 ( Use No. 1098 ) . .Of equal importance to the marks are the ones that don't appear e.g. no NOT FOR BALL or CHOKE mark. The first of these was introduced in 1875, so this and the patent date mean the gun was made definitely not before Feb 72, or after 1875. "It must have been made a couple of years after 1872, say 1874 to early 1875, and we favour the latter because even if the gun was made by a large trade maker, the 1098 use number is quite a large number."
. . . . . . . . .NOTE: This IGC comment is misleading. If the gun had no choke, there would be no NOT FOR BALL stamp even after the new proof law…and most shotguns up into the 1880’s were cylinder bore; and there has yet to be found a patent use stamp for any patent holder in UK that is strictly chronological.
**12. 20623. Purdey patent 1104 use #4928, the last Reilly with a Pat 1104 use #. The Purdey patent expired 01 May 1877. This gun is dated per the chart circa April 1877.
**13. 23536. Oxford Street was renumbered in November 1881. 23536 is the first extant gun with the new numbers on the rib. The chart would date it to mid-November 1881.
**14. 23574. For the 1882 season Hurlingham rules weight limit for pigeon guns was fixed at 8 lbs. This pigeon gun built in late 1881 for the new upcoming season weighs 8 lbs..
**15. 24534. For the 1883 season Hurlingham rules weight limit for pigeon guns was changed to 7 lbs 8 oz. This pigeon gun built in late 1882 for the new rules weighs 7 lbs 8 oz.
**16. 30768. A&D Boxlock patent number 8245. The SN dates the gun to late spring 1889. The A&D patent expired in May 1889
**17. 35186 - Dated on the chart as 1901; it has a post-1898 trade label and London 1896-1904 proof marks
**18. 35554. Reilly double rifle chambered for .500/.465 with 295 Oxford St. address on the barrels. The chart dates it as late 1907. This cartridge was introduced by Holland & Holland in 1907.
**19. 35614. Reilly SxS shotgun built by G&S Holloway with H8113 SN on barrel - made in 1911. Reilly apparently sold off most of his guns in late 1911 due to catastrophic losses at 40% mark-down, which explains the high number of guns sold in 1911.


---------------See p.57 for a complete date list of extant Reilly's------------
=======================================================================================
8645 - Pretty Fantastic SxS Muzzle Loader - compared to 8643 - a pretty fantastic SxS Muzzle Loader


Terry Buffum just sent me this reference: Take a look at a great Reilly SxS percussion gun SN 8645 (and also note that RIA got the date 1849 spot on because of the chart on this site):
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...on-double-rifle
Manufactured in 1849. Features a blade front sight, three-leaf rear sight (100, 150, and 200 yards), "REILLY. NEW OXFORD STREET. LONDON" signed on top near the breech, classic scroll engraving, a detailed scene of a stag on the patch box, two stags fighting on the trigger guard bow, and a checkered stock with smooth steel buttplate and 13 3/4 inch length of pull. Matching serial numbers are marked on the barrels, breech hooks, forend, and lower tang.
Very good with 90% plus of a the rebrowned finish on the barrel along with attractive twist patterns, strong original blue finish on the protected areas of the trigger guard, light original case colors on the locks and remaining furniture, mostly smooth gray patina on the balance, crisp markings and engraving, and generally only minor wear. The refinished stock is also very good and has mostly crisp checkering with a few worn spots, nice figure and contrast, and some minor marks and scratches. Mechanically excellent. A very attractive early double rifle. Provenance: The Malcolm King Collection.





Now compare it to 8643 sold a few years ago - Reilly could make some guns back then - (and I don't believe for a minute that "E.M" was on that gun...James Julia probably just upgraded "Reilly" to "EM.")
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-1361-e-m...nal-case-40673/

E. M. REILLY PERCUSSION DOUBLE EXPRESS RIFLE WITH ORIGINAL CASE. SN 8463. Cal. .390 Groove diameter. 5-Groove Enfield type rifling. Approximately 1 turn in 50&#8243;. Unusual 24&#8243; stepped octagonal barrels have extremely heavy breeches. “Reilly, New Oxford Street. London.” is engraved on narrow sunken top rib. Rear express sight is mounted on island base, has one standing, two folding leaves, plus an additional long ladder blade with very fine U-notches for precision shooting. German silver front blade is inset in raised front boss. Bottoms of bbls have London proofs and SN. Hickory ramrod has brass tip and tail, and is held by one long plain pipe mounted with sling eye. There is a retaining boss at front end of bbls which engages groove in ramrod tip. Barrels are made of unusual broad patterned skelp twist. Case hardened patent breeches have SNs on hooks, and vented platinum “blow-outs”. What appear to be original, square shouldered nipples are deeply set into fences. Breech iron is engraved with very nicely cut open scroll. Front action locks with high rounded serpentine hammers, are separated from bbls in Westley Richards fashion. Locks are engraved with more open scroll, as are hammers, which terminate in stylized dolphins heads. Lockplates are also engraved “Reilly London” and have vignettes of game; a recumbent stag on left, and running stag on right. There are silver flash guards between breech iron and lockplates. Scroll engraved trigger plate has circular finial. Trigger guard bow is engraved with another running stag. SN is on grip.




========================================================================================
30358 side lever pigeon gun (Diggory) and 303xx side lever pigeon gun (Lubzinzski), both early 1889;
May 1889 -The end of the side lever?


Diggory has an interesting Reilly side-lever, hammer-gun pigeon gun for sale on his site SN 30358:
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/gun-sales/reilly
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


Terry Lubzinski posted his similar Reilly S-L lever hammer-gun pigeon gun, SN 303xx, several years ago:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191402&page=all
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Remarkable similarities in the guns, design, engraving, layout, Whitworth steel barrels, weight. Both were made at 277 Oxford Street. But Terry's allegedly still has a Paris address on the barrels (Reilly closed 2 rue Scribe in early August 1985) and still has "not for ball" on the proof marks (discontinued in 1887). Odd stuff.

Why was Reilly making so many side-levers at the time? Perhaps because he would't have to pay for the A&D Box-Lock patent (which incidentally expired in May 1889)? (Or it could just be that some pigeon competitors preferred hammer guns without a top lever?)

Comment: Reilly undercut his competitors on cost and rapidity of delivery. If you had to add several shillings to the cost of a gun for a patent like the A&D box lock, it took its toll on sales volume. There are no extant side-lever Reilly's that can be found so far after 1889 and the expiration of the A&D patent. Thus these two guns, early -1889 per the chart, may possibly be sorts of sanity-check markers for the year 1889.

Incidentally 30768 is the last Reilly with an A&D Box-Lock patent use number dated per the chart to May 1889. It is mentioned in the chart as a "marker sanity check."
30768 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. A&D patent use #8245 (PAY's gun)(A&D Patent expired May 1889)

Edit: I have been corrected by very knowledgable members of this board. An A&D box-lock can indeed sport a side lever. I had always assumed a top-lever went with Box-Lock sort of like Tom with Jerry.

I really like the gun Diggory has on his sight, too much money to get it here though.
=========================================================
17626


Very nice Reilly .450 SxS BPE rifle on Guns International, SN 17626
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...rifle-450-3-1-4-bpe.cfm?gun_id=101563742
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

What's interesting about this gun is the write-up. The seller dated it definitively to 1872. This date surely came out of this site and the research that went into it. The Reilly line thus has indeed aided and changed gun history (thanks to doublegunshop and the contributions by all).

(Excerpt from p.44 extant gun list):

1872: 17311 - 17910. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600. . . . .**11. 17314
17314- E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577/.450. Rifle Martini-Henry type single barrel.First Reilly Martini
17391 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 8bore. Shotgun SxS. pin-fire (converted), U-L, hammer gun. (Buffum)
17392 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford St., London; 16 ga SxS Shotgun; center-fire, Side Lever, hammer-gun. (Buffum)
17393 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and 2 Rue Scribe, Paris; 12bore. Shotgun SxS. center-fire, Push-forward U-L, hammer gun. Purdey Pat 1104, use #948 (CBL1's gun)
17476 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. center-fire, U-L, Hammer gun (Buffum) (Purdey Pat 1104)
17495 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 12 bore Shotgun SxS. U-L, pin-fire converted, hammer gun. (Tomato Stake's gun)
17532 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street and Rue Scribe, Paris. 12bore. Shotgun SxS, muzzle loader. Once owned by Empress Eugenie.
17534 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 12 bore, SxS shotgun. center-fire, push-forward U-L, hammer gun, Purdy 1104 patent use # 1037.
17552 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 13 bore, Shotgun SxS. pin-fire (converted); U-L, hammer gun (reb87�s gun)
17556 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore, SxS shotgun. U-L, hammer gun.
17612 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12ga. SxS shotgun, Center-fire, Thumbhole U-L, hammer gun.
17626 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .450 SxS Rifle. BPE. Center-fire, U-L, hammer gun. Henry Pat #408, 409

1873: 17911 - 18510. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
17979 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. Rifle SxS. .577. U-L, hammer gun

1874: 18511 - 19140. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 630
.
.
.
============================================================================
1833 ??? - Riggs Production??? - Reilly design??? - classy


Terry Buffium sent this advertisement.
https://auctions.morphyauctions.com...CO__SCALLOPED_ACTION_BOXL-LOT493536.aspx

Some observations:
1). Guns with "E.M Reilly & Co. London", on the barrels, without an address is Charles Riggs production (post 1922)....Riggs also used a half-pistol grips (i.e. what has become known as a "Prince of Wales" grip) rare on Classic Reilly except for rifles and big-bore fowlers.
2). The SN 1833 is a first and one must wonder if Riggs had a separate number series for special guns.
3) The engraving is so particular to classic Reilly guns that it gives pause. Was a Reilly possibly involved in its design? The evidence is almost unmistakeable.
4) The gun is advertised as having 28" barrels but in the details 26+. The barrels are likely not original to the gun.

In any event my humble opinion is this could be a significant gun. If it is Riggs production, post 1922, it's possibly an indication that Bert Reilly remained involved in the design and manufacture of guns retailed by Riggs after 1922. (The original Riggs advertisement in 1922 would lead one to think that were the case).

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Edit: However, on second thought, there is something quite strange about this advertisement. This is the #2 of a pair. The barrels are 26". The weight of the gun is not mentioned but it looks very much like a Reilly rifle. One must wonder if this is a repurposed big-bore rifle turned into a shotgun and rebarrelled. The weight of the gun (not published) would tell the story. If not, then the barrels have been cut. The barrels are stamped "J. Harper," Possibly Birmingham gun/barrel maker John Harper discussed in this line.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=456500

This likely is a real Reilly with a custom SN, though without the details - weight, pictures of the barrel flats and action flats/water table, etc., it's difficult to know. It just has the lines of a 295 Oxford Street Reilly rifle from the late 00's. I sent a note asking for this information from Morphy. I don't expect a reply unfortunately. (Morphy arrogance borders on something out of IGC - smile )

Here is 35554, .500/.465 Nitro Express rifle - 1907 on the date chart - look at the lines and the engraving. I now think 1833 to be an original Reilly rifle redone and rebarrelled....wonder if 1833 is meant to be a date?
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
A UK friend (Papeman - owner of Reilly SN 26584) sent the below advertisement he found on the back of 1870 "Rural Almanac and Sporting Calendar." It is quite attractive and confirms much of the conclusions for this time period from the research on this line.


[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Here are some observations from reading the ad:
-- It has the 1867 Paris Universalle medals (post Feb 1868 I believe).
-- It has both branch addresses (Paris rue Sribe opened in Feb 1868)
-- It has "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" which first appeared in advertisements in 1869.
-- It is still advertising pin-fires - the mainstay of Reilly center break guns up to about 1873. (the fences in the sketch look very thin - almost like a modified pin-fire).
-- And it is not advertising Martini-Henry's, which of course was not adopted for trial until June 1871.
-- It mentions an article in "The Field" from the July 6, 1867 issue written by the editor praising Reilly center-fire rifles which will be researched.
-- It has a list of agents abroad which will be researched (none in America - I believe he acquired Joseph Grubbs of Philadelphia as an agent around this time).
and:
-- The center-fire sketch shows a hammer system similar to 12bore's gun that I've only seen once; It is the earliest extant Reilly with the rue Scribe address on the rib: 14983, an 8 bore center fire shotgun (posted on p. 16 above). Very interesting:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

6 Jul 1867 "The Field" on the Reilly exhibit at the Paris exhibition. The Editor of the "Field" used a Reilly rifle in India. You'd think if Reilly didn't make those guns, he would have said something. Oh well, the late 20th century kibitzers know more than that editor ever did.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
So, is that metal tab protrusion between the hammer & fence the striker?



Serbus,


Raimey
rse
Looks similar to the Pape patent with retractable firing pins. The pins were quite elaborate in design.
That advertisement is a good find, Gene.
Raimey, Here is what 12bore wrote about 14983 (p.17).

This is a very rare mechanism. The hammers are flat nose or noseless. The strikers are retractable with the cocking of the hammers. This gun could be considered a "false hammerless" design. The firing pins are connected internally to the cocking rods on the exterior of the action, which are in turn connected to slots via the anterior portion of the hammers. Very ingenious and another way to invent the mousetrap!

I made the comment that I looked similar to the old Lancaster base-fire system from 1860 (this from Diggory's May 2020 issue of Vintage Gun Journal (but I think Dayrl is right about the Pape patent - would like to know more about this patent):
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/ace-of-base-fire
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
====================================================================================================
SN 88, Pair of Duelers, Now the Earliest known Reilly


A gentleman in UK read the Reilly history posted on Diggory Hadoke's on-line magazine Vintagegunjournal and wrote to Diggory. He has a pair of J.C. Reilly Duelers, SN 88 with "Holborn Bars, London" on the barrels. These are now the earliest known Reilly's, which would date per my chart to early 1829 (but could just as well be 1828). The owner believes they were commissioned and bought by his great-great-great grandfather around 1829.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Re-posted below is SN 176, a pair of duelers formerly owned by Terry Buffum, sold about 5 years ago on Amoskeag:
-- the similarity between the two sets of pistols is remarkable (Terry's does not have a safety).
-- Terry always wondered why his two duelers carried identical serial numbers. With the appearance of SN 88, it appears this was the way J.C. Reilly numbered his pairs of pistols.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

To have a gun like this come to light is an emotional high....(along with a belated acknowledgement of a term recognized world-wide as standing for excellence and commitment - "ROLL TIDE"!)
============================================================================================
E.M. Reilly letter to "the Field" 26 Dec 1857 on Breech Loaders


Vic Venters managed to obtain the E.M Reilly letter to "The Field" on breech loaders published in the 26 December 1857 edition. He obtained this through his contacts at the magazine - but because there may be copyright issues, the entire letter will not be literally posted as yet. However, here are a few comments on the points made in the letter:

. . .1) Reilly began looking at French and Belgian breech loaders as early as 1847 possibly earlier:
"This system differs from other novelties inasmuch as it has been extant about a quarter of a century and it has been in operation in some sporting circles these twenty years."

"Some of the arguments which the opponents of the breech-loading system bring forward against its soundness and stability might have been received ten or fifteen years ago, when the originality of the design and curious simplicity of the construction rather took us by surprise. It had not then been so undoubtedly proved, as by the long experience we have had since in extensive and constant use, that the solid flat false breech which the breech ends of the barrels close against is as sound, as durable, and for all purposes of resistance of the charge, as secure and perfect as a breech permanently screwed into the tubes themselves; and they undergo the same proof as muzzle-loaders."

"Estimating their powers by the French and Belgian guns that have passed through our hands many years ago, we thought they would be covert guns for short distances; but it soon became apparent with superior workmanship and finer qualities of metal for the barrels, that extraordinary shooting powers might be achieved with the breech-loader;"


. . .2) Reilly apparently invested in machinery to manufacture the guns and he seemed to have an intimate familiarity with the manufacturing process (though the article was basically couched as a counter-point to anti-breech-loader diatribes - in particular safety, durability, power).
"All the patents have long ago fallen in; anybody who does not object to the expense of the necessary tools and machinery, and who can teach his workmen, may set to work and make these guns. The great facts of safety and durability have been fully established by the wear and tear of a longer period than a good fowling piece is generally supposed to continue serviceable in hard shooting; and the breech-loader, which requires less care in cleaning, etc., exhibits less appearance of deterioration than the capper cap-gun after the same length of time in hard wear."

. . .3) The breech-loaders were originally bought by UK shooters as something of a novelty; It subsequently came as a surprise how easy they were to shoot, clean and how reliable they were:
"Until quite recently purchases were made from sheer curiousity, in the most disbelieving spirit as to their utility, but admitting the ingenuity and apparent goodness of this workmanship. The desire was to possess something new, taking its merits upon trust; and it has often been, with no less surprise than gratification that all doubts were dispelled, and the new gun found to be more agreeable to use and possessed of greater power than those on the old plan."

Comment: First Extant Reilly pin-fire breech loader is 10054, made probably late summer 1856. There is an extant Reilly breech loader 10354 made in summer 1857. This indicates the E.M. made about 300 guns during this period (J.C. made another 100...see the chart). Probably at most 10% of the 300 made by EM were breech loaders = 30 guns - probably a lot less - 15 guns maybe? The Extant SN Reilly guns are pictured above.

Note: By December 1857
-- Lang had been producing breech loaders for nearly 4 years (estimate maybe 70 guns?)
-- Reilly for 1.5 years (estimate 15 guns?);
-- Blanch for a year (estimate 5 guns?)
-- Haris Holland for 9 or 10 months (5 guns?).
-- The technology was still 3 years away from infiltrating Birmingham.
-- There were a few other gunsmiths making them - Henry Tatham had made a couple per letters to the Field
etc.
In other words there were not that many UK made breech loaders being shot in the country at this time (Dec 1857) - maybe 100? if that many?


. . .4) Reilly did not have a high opinion of some of the guns imported into UK from Belgium and France at the time.
"The only objections worth of any notice that have been adduced are those imperfections known to exist in the very worst specimens – the cheap Belgian and French guns, many of which kill very well, and last a fair time, inferior as they may be."

"There have been good grounds for prejudices for it has has been badly made, though richly ornamented and, in fact has not been properly understood by the manufacturers until of late years"


Comment: There is something odd about the tone of Reilly's comment; i.e. - "Isn't the quality of those ornamental Continental guns awful but they sure do shoot well and should be fine once British quality takes over." i.e. The obligatory nod to British parochialism while supporting the concept and promoting the innovation .

. . .5) He had a belief at the time that the chamber should taper at the cartridge end and should not end "abruptly" at right angles as were found on European breech-loaders.
"Very few of the barrels for breech-loaders actually made in this country have been chambered with an abrupt termination, or shoulder, to meet the inner end of the cartridge-case; almost every one has been eased off at a moderate angle."

Comment: Apparently Lang originally followed the Lefaucheux chambering model touting this as an "advance." UK gunmakers filed off the chamber "shoulders." Lang then claimed he was the origin of this change. Lang apparently had a character that inspired a lot of upset in the UK gunmaking fraternity).

. . .6) He spent a lot of time discussing the wadding of reloads and the fact that cartridges did not need to be cut, etc.

. . .7) He seemed to believe that in late 1857 a lot of barrels used in UK breech loaders were imported from Belgium.
"Very few of the barrels for breech-loaders actually made in this country"

. . .8) He thought the British cartridge industry to be lazy or very conservative.
"Moreover, there has been until recently considerable difficulty about obtaining an ample supply of cartridge-cases, and no one knows better than myself the persuasion it required to induce our apathetic English to undertake their manufacture, although a model was put into their hands that they had only to follow a pattern without the least exercise of the inventive faculty."

Comment: Shortly thereafter Reilly decided to begin manufacturing his own breech loading pin-fire cartridges.

If I get permission from "The Field" I will post the letter. It can be interpreted in several ways - as an advertising brochure, an advertisement for his guns, a promotion for breech-loaders, etc. The fact remains that at the time, no-one in UK challenged the fact that Reilly was making breech-loaders at New Oxford Street.

(A letter to the field in early Jan 1858 in response to Reilly's above letter was published above- reposted below):
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Very interesting, Gene. Thanks for posting this, and I look forward to hearing more.
Indeed, remain ever stalwart & >>Roll Tide, Roll<<



Serbus,

Raimey
rse
======================================================================
Change in the History:
London gunmakers in April 1858 urge Arsenal to re-evaluate the Prince breech-loader


The Prince breech-loader patented in 1855 was a revolutionary weapon and was undoubtedly the finest military rifle of its time. It was never adopted by any army.

Reilly SN 10782, "New Oxford Street" on the rib - First Extant Reilly-made Prince - summer 1858:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Arsenal had just adopted the .577 Enfield rifle-musket muzzle loader in 1853. Prince repeatedly outshot the Enfield. In April 1858 12 prominent London gun-makers petitioned Arsenal to reopen the competition. At the time the Prussians had been using a needle-gun breech loader since 1848. These gun-makers felt the time had come for the Prince. Arsenal was hide-bound and refused. 5 years later after the Prussians stunning victory over the Danes, the world's armies began scrambling for breech-loaders...the British wound up with first the Snider as a stop-gap (1866) (see p.12) and then the Martini-Henry (1871).

In the history I had recorded that Reilly was one of the 12 gun makers who petitioned Arsenal. Not so...the petition is posted below. The history has been changed. Reilly, the Irish Catholic was not an overt "revolutionary." But Reilly was supportive and an authorized manufacturer of the Prince. The first extant gun made at the new 315 Oxford Street manufactury (opened in early August 1858) was a Prince SN 10811..

Note: the qualifying phrase, "And having beyond no interest whatever in Mr. Prince's breech-loader..."

"The Field", 24 April 1858
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

It is quite possible that EM Reilly did not sign the letter because he might have had a financial stake in Prince. Green did not sign that petition either - he had a financial stake in Prince.

Prince and Green about this time went into partnership. When that ended about 1860, Green later signed over manufacturing rights to his own breech-loader patented in 1862 to Reilly (several posts above) which Reilly then extensively promoted in summer 1864. Prince, Green and Reilly along with Dean, Blanch and a couple of others seemed to always be together in that time period.

(Reilly was wily and a very consummate businessman. One wonders whether he set this whole thing up..it's possible. There was a LOT of money to be made. In any event, the Empire lost a great early breech-loading rifle). (But given that they had to fight no sophisticated opponent for the next 55 years other than the South African boers....ho hum').

It was difficult to find what gun makers actually signed that petition, even on Prince centric sites. so I'll list them below for the benefit of internet searches:
-- John Blanch & Sons
-- John Blissett
-- Wm Bishop
-- B. Denver
-- Geo Fuller
-- J. Greenfield
-- E. London
-- John Manton and Son
-- Moore and Woodward
-- Saml Nock and Co.
-- Parker Field and Son
-- Henry Tatham
-- Henry Wilkinson
==================================================================
SN 8082 - Joseph Charles Reilly - 1856 - JC 7000 series - date 1856


This ebay advertisement turned up in a search recently. 8082:
www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Shotgun-Joseph-Charles..
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

The gun, certainly a muzzle loader, is in the JC 7000 series. It would be dated 1856 and would be one of the last guns made by Joseph Charles at 502 New Oxford Street. Without details it's difficult to know more but undoubtedly Veni Vidi Vici is on the barrel.

The site on eBay is dead. If anyone knows more about this gun, maybe someone from Derby, Conn.? - please post....it's an important historical artifact.

I've sent an email to a couple of gun shops in Derby, Conn. Hopefully more information can be found on this gun.
Copy and pastier' award of the year....
==========================================================
28189 - (1886) - What a trade label can tell you about a gun


Terry Buffum sent this ebay advertisement for an EM Reilly leather case:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-leather-shotgun-case-by-E-M-Reilly-Co-London/303904492540?hash=item46c21e8bfc:g:FaoAAOSwp~RgPVLn
Edit". Case was pretty much dilapidated but with original labels - probably for a hammer gun..sold for $109....the labels alone would be worth something.

I sent this message back..and thanks Terry!!!

Many thanks Terry...a couple of comments:

The working inside label mentions SN 28189. 12 bore, SxS Shotgun. That would be 1886 - obviously black powder era. I did not have that gun.

Yet the label in the case is a post 1897 label after the May 97 closure of 16 New Oxford Street....and the inside label also has the crossed out 277 Oxford Street address replaced by the 295 New Oxford Street address. It looks like it was sold from a gentlemen in North Devon (see crossed out address) to a "Major Hurle" in "Yarlington House"?...(something) (Uricanton?) Station?

I assume that the gun was
-- Bought in 1886 - probably made at 277 Oxford Street - for a fellow "G.A.P".
-- Either resold or reconditioned sometime after 1897 (when the new trade label was added) to a fellow in North Devon named
. . . . ."Alberton"? S. "Scodon"?
. . . . .(can't make out the name of the scratched out village but it has a lot of "T"'s .."Schott" seems to be a common ending for North Devon/Somerset villages)
. . . . . North Devon
-- then sold to Maj. Hurle (possibly going out to Cairo, 1 Brigade? based on stamps on the case) - and at the time reconditioned at 295 Oxford sometime after May 1904 (when 295 is known to be open) - and possibly reproofed for nitro?.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Note: There is a "Yarlington Estate" down near Cornwall...in Yeovil, Somerset - close enough to North Devon to make this plausible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarlington

Edit:
Here is the exterior of the case:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

And here is a label affixed to the case handle: (Note the vaguely discernible name on the label....?.I.Pesse?)...
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


(Hard work, dedication, research, analysis and knowledge is not "cut and paste." Oh wait, we're talking to West Tennessee here - kind of a foreign language for that crowd).
Wincanton in Somerset.
I tripped over this article today in the March issue of the British " The Vintage Gun Journal" and Gene (Argo44) was prominently mentioned throughout the article which was about the earliest Reilly breech loader and Gene was characterized as an "old(ish) man." Take that, Gene. wink Gil
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/the-earliest-reilly-breech-loader-
You're right Gil. This was mentioned once before when we discussed the pin-fire SN 10054 (see above p.53). I believe this is the oldest datable extant UK made pin-fire - late summer 1856.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Re the comments in the article by Mark Crudgington: "Mark advised caution about dating guns with limited information, commenting; 'Modern , especially American ideas , of how the gun trade of the 18th and 19th C worked always appear to me to be based on a modern model that is irrelevant within an historical perspective."

Mark told me he knew of two Lang's which allegedly had original 1854 receipts but he has never actually documented this story - and he later said the earliest datable Lang SN is 1858. (Per Lang's own pamphlet he claimed he began to make center-break pin-fires in early 1854)
. . - In the Diggory article Mark expressed skepticism about my dating methods for Reilly SN'd guns.
. . - I have had conversations with him on several subjects from this time period and he is quite opinionated on lots of things; However, to my knowledge he has never actually read through the details of the methods I used to write the history, date Reilly guns, etc. He has been wrong on some of the topics we went over. (The British class system it seems still sits heavily on the Island from some of his comments - I discussed this with David Trevallion - this is a sociological observation, not a value judgement).
. . - Donald Dallas' view of this research is the opposite to that of Mark's - see p. 53
(This is not an attack on Mark, the son of a legendary researcher and gunsmith Ian Crudgington and a noted gunsmith in his own right and the holder of an alleged excellent collection. It's just that those credentials and his opinions may not be accurate for true history).

Diggory put a bid in on that gun maybe because of our discussion about it; but, possibly because of the Reilly History it went for as I recall ÂŁ 2,750. And yes I did take a dig at Diggory about that phrase (though of course it is sort of accurate). smile

edit: And I continue to believe until other evidence is posted - not just hear-say - that this rifle is the earliest extant UK made center-break pin-fire...based on the Reilly research above. (And that dating chart is NOT whimsey).
==================================================
15625 (1869) - Sale and observations on big bore fowlers, their chambers and barrels


This line on the sale of Reilly SxS shotgun SN 15625 is posted here for reference; there are some interesting observations not only about 15625 but about Reilly big-bore fowlers and rifles as well... and the big bore conundrum at the time..when a 4 bore chamber for paper shells had 6 bore barrels, etc.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=594849&page=1
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
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Reilly and Sir Samuel W. Baker: - 1854 - paragraph added to the history


The Rifle and the Hound in Ceylon
(original 1854, reprinted 1874)
https://archive.org/details/rifleandhoundin01bakegoog/page/n14/mode/2up

Reilly was building explosive bullets for Baker in 1854 and made rifles for him for 30 years. Obviously, Sir Samuel knew something about Reilly that the mid 20th century gun historians forgot or ignored: this from the 1874 edition submitted obviously after "Reilly," became "E.M. Reilly" in October 1859.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
1880 Bradshaw
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Reilly also made explosive bullets for Col. John Jacob, legendary British leader of Pashtun cavalry in the 1840's-50's (Jacobabad in Pakistan is named after him) in the midi-1850's for his double barreled rifle which allegedly could reach out 2,000 yards. In 1869 E.M. Reilly patented an explosive bullet.. the design of which may have been drawn from his experience with both Baker and Jacob.

A paragraph has been added to the history.
===========================================================
8556 (1848) - 12 bore rifle

https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...y-12-bore-percussion-double-barrel-rifle

Another attractive muzzle loader from RIA - 12 bore rifle which dates to 1848 per my chart. It was likely made by E.M. Reilly, his father J.C. having by that time launched his own number series, made just after the move to New Oxford Street. It has "Reilly, New Oxford Street, London" on the rib. It is very similar to 8665 and 8663 pictured and discussed on P. 54 above.

There are a surprising number of Reilly's from that era given the age and the fact they were muzzle loaders (see extant Reilly date chart on p.44).

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

That is an elegant gun. Stalking safeties. But look at the estimated price? $5,000?
===========================================
5580 (1844-47?) 12 bore shotgun - History being changed because of this gun

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.c...621++++525+&refno=162400&image=0
J.C. REILLY, LONDON
A GOOD 12-BORE PERCUSSION DOUBLE-BARRELLED SPORTING-GUN, serial no 5580,
for between 1835-47, with browned heavy twist 30in. barrels, the raised top-rib signed 'JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBORN, LONDON', bead fore-sight, engraved shell to rib-end, engraved plugs, fully engraved top-tang, rounded border and scroll engraved isolated bar-action locks with semi-dipped tails and signed forwards of the engraved dolphin-headed hammers 'REILLY', walnut half-stock with finely engraved iron furniture and complete with its original brass mounted ebony ramrod, overall length 46 1/2in, weight approximately 7 3/4lbs.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

For comparison, SN 5512(extensively discussed several pages above):
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

This 12 bore Reilly percussiion SxS shotgun SN 5580 is for sale at Holt's. It has the Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London Address. It's a significant gun for Reilly history and it's interesting for a couple of points:

-- 16 bore 5512 SxS percussion shotgun comes from the same ilk - only with both the 316 address and the new 502 Address on the rib. This makes me wonder if J.C. didn't have a 5500 series of serial numbers in the 1840's.

-- the Holt's advertisement used this line's to get the date right. Then devolved back to urban legend. The history was sent several times to Holt's. Until it's published and in print, they won't use it unless they can sell guns with it.

Will add to the history a note of the now "possible" 5500 series of JC guns from the 1840's; this will bear more research and need more guns to come to light.

===========================================================
(Have added following to the history):


Note: There are two extant SxS percussion guns from apparently the mid-1840's which are very similar; It may be that J.C. Reilly had a 5500 serial number series of some sort; more guns are needed to establish this point. (One wonders whether this series might be connected to 4573 above; if so it would add a good 1,000 guns to the total Reilly made):

. . .-- 5512 – March 1847?, a 16 bore SxS muzzle loader shotgun, which has “J.C. Reilly 316 High Holborn now 502 New Oxford Street, London” on the rib, (the only gun found so far with both addresses and obviously numbered around the time of the move) (the two addresses are printed in a slightly different font indicating 5512 may have been brought in for maintenance and reengraved at that time);

. . .-- 5580 – 1845-47?, a 12 bore SxS muzzle loader shotgun, which has “J.C. Reilly 316 High, London” on the rib, (engraving and format very similar to 5514 above);
======================================================
25513 (1883) - 10 bore, 32" barrels, 8lbs 12 oz.

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.c...++1580+&refno=++160864&saletype=
E.M. REILLY & CO.
A 10-BORE (3 1/4IN.) BOXLOCK NON-EJECTOR LIVE PIGEON / WILDFOWLING GUN, serial no. 25513,
circa 1885, 32in. nitro reproved bold damascus barrels, rib with intermediate bead sight and engraved 'E.M. REILLY & CO. 16 NEW OXFORD STREET. LONDON & RUE SCRIBE PARIS' (rubbed), 3 1/4in. chambers, bored approx. full choke in both, left wall thickness at 19, some pits, first pattern Anson & Deeley patent hammerless action, patent no. 1756 of 11th May 1875, use number 4343, rounded fences, slender toplever, automatic safety with gold-inlaid 'S' detail, bowed triggerguard, acanthus scroll engraving, brushed bright and reblued finish overall, 14 5/8in. figured Prince of Wales pistolgrip stock with steel pistolgrip stock and 7/8in. rubber recoil pad, bolstered fore-end wood, weight 8lb. 12oz.


They're wrong on the date...again...date is fall 1883, not circa 1885.

This gun is mentioned because of three things -
..1) a historical look at the weight of 10 bores at the time (8lb 12 oz, 32" barrels) for future reference
..2) a pistol grip stock and
..3) the AD patent use number (which Holt's finally has deigned to provide to buyers.....but god help you if you want a picture of the water table or barrel flats):
25513 has AD use number 4343'
25519 has AD use number 3976 - Per the extant gun chart on p.44:

Patent use numbers often make you feel like you fell down Alice's rabbit hole. Don't go there!! Don't try to make sense of them. Unless they make sense.....
=========================================================
Spreading the word


At the Southern I met and talked to Mr. Dan Morphy of Morphy Auctions. At his request I forward to him the Reilly History, Extant SN dating chart, and the dating chart for Reilly trade labels. Today the following was received from Eric Wagner of Morphy Auctions:

Mr. Williams,
I just wanted to reach out on behalf of Morphy Auctions and thank you for sending us the information on E.M. Reilly. I have added it to our reference library.
Thank you!


In addition I chatted for some time with Rick Henley, the Executive Director of Acquisitions of Rock Island Auction Company and also fowarded the Reilly data to him. The following reply was received.

Gene,
Thank you so much for this information, I am certain I will find it helpful in the future. I enjoyed speaking with you at the Southern as well. Please let me know if there is anything I can help with in the future.
Rick Henley


I've also sent the data to Kirby Hoyt, Steve Barnett, Vic Venters, , and a number of big gun dealers and experts in the USA and UK including Donald Dallas & Diggory Haddoke. (Mr. Dallas' comments are posted above; Diggory published an earlier form of the history and date chart in his on-line magazine 2 years ago).

Donald Dallas's email:
Dear Gene,
Many thanks indeed for sending me your vast amount of research that you have undertaken on Reilly. I had never read the articles in Diggory's journal so it was all brand new to me. I must congratulate you on your lengthy and so well researched history of Reilly. I well know the considerable amount of hours that go into a piece of proper research like this.

It is so heartening that you have elevated the name Reilly where it belongs. I found it absolutely fascinating and had no idea that Reilly was such a big manufacturer. Like others I assumed, erroneously, as you explain that he was a retailer. I will now completely revise my opinion of Reilly. I was a student at the London School of Economics in the early 1970s and used to pass along New Oxford Street every morning and I always used yo think of Reilly.


The information was sent to Cyril Adams before he died who wrote the following three weeks before he passed away:

Mr. Williams:
Thank you for your exhaustive and well-written history of REILLY. You have produced a much-needed work which will be studied by students of English Guns and Rifles for both knowledge and pleasure.
Good job, Mr. Williams ..........Cyril Adams


There is a point to this; If one thinks that the research is solid, then why let false information stand? Not to say something about bad narrative being published is to be complicit in its errors.
Moving this chart forward again from.44 - it is a working document and is updated each time a new gun is found; when new "marker" serial numbered guns appear, the chronology is adjusted (as has happened several times over the last 3 years).
=========================================================================
1820-1912 - Identified and/or Extant Gun Chronology


This is the current SN list with extant guns used to make the chronology date-chart. Reilly SN'd around 33,700 guns from the late 1820's to 1912 (94 years). There are 652 listed here as of 27 Mar 2024 (not including the Riggs numbered guns-post 1922) with about 50 more known but with SN's not published. Thus, the sample has a little less than 2% of the company's serial-numbered production; but still a goodly number! This list should get a Reilly owner close to the date his gun was numbered. It's more accurate from about 1855-1905 because of the number of existing guns. Caveats and Methodology - see above/below.

Note: First Reilly pin-fire center-break gun found is fall 1856 (possibly the oldest extant dateable pin-fire made in the UK). The majority of Reilly center-break guns up to about 1873 were pin-fires, often converted to center-fire. After 1874 "pin-fire/center-fire" designation is no longer used as center-fire became the norm.

Note: It appears that J.C. Reilly had a "5000" series of numbers from about 1841-1847. There are five such extant guns. This series has not yet been factored into the below chart. (There is an upper date limit marker for this "series" - SN 5991 - which is post March 1847 from the address on the rib. However, there is no lower date marker for the series other than the 316 High Holborn address on the ribs - which could theoretically extend back to August 1835.

Year. . . . . . . . . . . .Serial Numbers. . . . . . . . . .yearly production
. . . Black-Main Chronology; Blue - JC "7000" series. . . . . .*Marker footnotes. **Sanity checks
outlier SN's. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Various known patents on SN'd extant guns
Year Footnote Marker Legend: (refer to indexes at the end of the gun SN list)
. . . . .I. Jul ’28 - Red Roman numerals + date:. . . . .Date markers
. . . . .*1. 88 - Red numeral w/asterisk:. . . . . . . . . Date marker SN guns
. . . . .**1. 7201 - Green numeral w double asterisk:.Sanity check gun
. . . . .++Aug 1840 - Orange with +’s:. . . . . . . . . . .Events effecting production
. . . . .##1. 1855 - Purple with double #:. . . . . . . . Proof mark change


1828: . . 001 - . .050 - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50. . I. .
. . . . .I. Jul ’28 - 1st advertisement for guns made at Holborn Bars

1829: . . 051 - . .180. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 130. ..*1. 88
. . .88- J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. .50 cal. Pistols; Pair of percussion dueling pistols; hexagonal barels. (UK)First extant Reilly
. .162 - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. 14 bore. Shotgun; percussion, single-barreled muzzle-loader (Henry Nock Patent breech)
. .176 - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. .50 cal. Pistols; Pair of percussion dueling pistols; Hexagonal barrels.

1830: . . 181 - . .320. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 140
. .254 - J.C. Reilly? (no address mentioned). Percussion pistol (Terry Weiland article).

1831: . . 321 - . .460. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 140
1832: . . 461 - . .600. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 140
1833: . . 601 - . .750. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150

1834: . . 751 - . .900. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .150
..xxxx - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. 14 bore. Sporting gun. Single barrel, muzzle loader. "highly figured stock" (Pic)
..xxxx - J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London. .45 Cal. Pistol, 14cm long, steel barrel, percussion pocket.

1835: . . 901 - .1060. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180. .II;. .*2. 1024
. . . . .II. Late Aug â€35 – Move to 316, High Holborn
..1024 - Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London. 8.5mm. Pistol; hammer gun, steel barrel, pocket pistol (1st SN with High Holborn)
..xxxx - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London. .50 cal. Pistol; Percussion hexagonal steel barrel.

1836: ..1061 - .1240. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180
..1174 - J.C. Reilly, (no address). 8 bore. Fowling piece; Percussion single shot, single barrel, muzzle loader.

1837: ..1241 - .1420. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180..*3. 1292
..1292- Reilly, London, 120 bore, Pistol; steel barrel, percussion miniature pocket pistol. (Last SN'd pistol)

1838: ..1421 - .1600. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180
1839: ..1601 - .1810. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 210

1840: ..1811 - .2030. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 220
. . . . .++Aug 1840 - Company name in ads changes from "J.C. Reilly" to "Reilly"; EM possibly becomes a full partner in the company.
..1869 - (unknown) 10 bore Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader
..2008 - Joseph Charles Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. 14 bore. Shotgun SxS; muzzle loader hammer gun. 14 bore stamp. (barrels possible redone and re-engraved after 1847)

1841: ..2031 - .2260. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 230
..4573 - J.C. Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London. Single barrel, 6 bore waterfowler. Muzzle loader, hammer gun. ("7" bore stamp)(Outlier?)

1842: ..2261 - .2490. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 230

1843: ..2491 - .2720. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 230
..5512 - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316, High Holborn now 502 Oxford Street, London; 16 bore SxS Shotgun. Hammergun, Muzzle loader. 16 bore stamp (outlier?)
..5580 - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London; 12 bore SxS Shotgun. Hammergun, Muzzle loader. (outlier?)

1844: ..2721 - .2960. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
..xxxx - J.C. Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London. 10 bore. Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, Muzzle loader "highly figured stock" (pic)

1845: ..2961 - .3180. + 7000 - 7020. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
..3007* - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315, Oxford Street, London; 16 bore, SxS; pin-fire, U-L, hammer-gun. (*Brum proofs; possibly reconfigured as a pin-fire after Aug 1858)
..xxxx - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London. 10 bore? Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, Muzzle loader.
..5759 - Reilly, No address; 10 bore SxS Shotgun. Hammergun, Muzzle loader. Likely bored out from a heavy 12 bore rifle. 12 bore stamp. (outlier?)

1846: ..3181 - .3320. + 7020 - 7130. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 250. .*4. 7021; *4a 7023;
..7021- Reilly, London. 20 bore. Shotgun Single barrel. Muzzle Loader, hammer gun. Boy’s gun. (1st JC 7000 series - still High Holborn)
..7023- J.C. Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London. 11 bore. Shotgun SxS. Muzzle Loader, hammer gun.

1847: ..3321 - .3350. + 7131 - 7230. + 8350 - 8480 - . . . . .260. .III; IV; *4. 8329; *5. 8378; *6. 7201; **1. 7201
. .++UK Financial panic.
. . . . .III. 27 Mar â€47 - moved to 502 New Oxford Street
. . . . .IV. Apr-Dec â€47 - “Removed from Holborn” in ads.
..3329- Joseph Charles Reilly, 316, High Holburn, London. 10 ga/.58 cal; Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, Muzzle loader. (Nock patent breech)(Last SN at High Holborn).
..3402 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford St., London & rue Scribe, Paris. .58 cal. SxS rifle; 4 grove twist. Hammer gun, muzzle loader. (E.M. Reilly label on the original case). (Redone post 1868?)
.8378?- J.C. Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London; 10 bore; Shotgun SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader. (label - "removed from Holborn") (First New Oxford 8400 series)
..8463 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; .390 cal. SxS Rifle; 5 groove rifling, muzzle loader. (label-"J.C. Reilly, removed from Holborn")
..84xx - Reilly, 502, Oxford Street, London; 6 Bore; Shotgun, single barrel, hammer gun, muzzle loader.
..7201- Joseph Charles Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal; Rifle, Single barrel, hammer gun, muzzle loader. (label - "Removed from Holborn") (1st JC 7000 series with Oxford St.rib)
..5991 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 17 bore SxS 2 groove rifle. Hammergun, Muzzle loader. Case with post 1847 Reilly label pasted over an 1847 Lang label. (outlier?)

1848: ..8481 - .8640. + 7231 - 7330. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 260
..3514 - Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London. 13 bore. Shotgun SxS; muzzle loader, hammer gun (1856-59 case label). 13 bore stamp.
..8556 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 12 bore, SxS Rifle; percussion muzzle loader
..8578?- Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 6 bore single barrel, fowling gun, hammer gun, muzzle loader.

1849: ..8641 - .8800. + 7331 - 7430. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 260
..8643 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 16 bore, double-rifle, SxS, muzzle loader.
..8645 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 16 bore, double-rifle, SxS, muzzle loader.

1850: ..8801 - .8960. + 7441 - 7540. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 260
..8857 - Reilly, (address not mentioned). 12 bore, single-barrel, rifle, muzzle loader.
..8877 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; .577 single-barrel, rifle. Percussion gun. Scroll guard extension. 33.5” brls.

1851: ..8961 - .9130. + 7541 - 7640. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 270
1852: ..9131 - .9300. + 7641 - 7740. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 270

1853: ..9301 - .9490. + 7741 - 7830. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
..7801 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 28 bore; Walking cane gun.
..7802 - J.C. Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 6 bore, Single Barrel, muzzle loader, wildfowl hammer gun

1854: ..9491 - .9680. + 7831 - 7930. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 290
..7869 - J.C. Reilly, New Oxford Street. London; 12 ga; Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader. 12 bore stamp.
..7902 - J.C. Reilly, New Oxford Street. London; 12 ga; Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader.

1855: ..9681 - .9880. + 7931 - 8030. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 290. .##1
. . . . .##1. 1855 - Proof stamp change; required bore size stamping (Reilly already stamped bore sizes)
..8025- Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 13 bore, single-barrel Rifle; hammer gun, muzzle loader. (1st marked Veni, Vidi, Vici)

1856: ..9881- 10170. + 8021 - 8120. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 390. .V; **3. 10054; **2.
. . . . .V. 1856, Aug – First Reilly advertisement for a Lefaucheaux-style center-break gun.
. . . . .**2. Increase in production after Paris Exposition.
..8052 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. 20 bore. single-barrel Rifle. Hammer gun, muzzle loader. (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici)
..8082 - Joseph Charles Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. SxS Shotgun. Hammer gun, muzzle loader. (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici)
..9971 - Reilly, (address not mentioned). .450 single rifle. Needle fire, screw breech C-F
10017 - (name/address not mentioned). 14 bore, SxS Shotgun, custom locks, muzzle loader, stub twist barrels. (JC home inventory)
10021*- E.M. Reilly & Co, New Oxford Street, London (*re-labeled "E.M" after conversion) .577 enfield 3 band, converted to Snider c.1866. 1st SN'd Reilly Enfield Rifle-Musket.
10054- Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London. 15 bore, SxS Rifle, pin-fire, Single-bite, Lang-Lefaucheux forward U-L. 1st SN'd extant center-break gun. . (Note: Possibly the oldest extant UK-made center-break gun.)
10077 - Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London. .58 cal, SxS Rifle, muzzle loader; ebony ramrod. Scroll guard extension.
10118 - Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London. .58 cal SxS Rifle; Percussion, muzzle loader, Scroll guard extension. 26” inch brls.
10128 - Reilly, (address not mentioned). 16 bore SxS shotgun; pin-fire, Single-bite, Lang-Lefaucheux forward U-L.

1857: 10171 - 10500. + 8121 - 8200. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 410. .VI; *9. 8186
. . . . .VI. Sep 1857 JC retires, end of "7000 series"
10315 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 6 bore. Shotgun; single barrel, hammer gun, muzzle loader.
10344 - Reilly, (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS shotgun, pin-fire hammer gun with leather case.
10354 - Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London; .400 cal. Rifle; SxS original muzzle loader, now double breech loader. (conversion 1895-1904 by John Fry w/new receiver, U-L, hammers, stock.)
10377 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris) (*re-labeled after conversion post 1868). .577 Enfield converted to Snider. Joseph Brazier Action, single set trigger, stalking safety.
..8186- Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. .650 cal (Minie ball). single-barrel Rifle. hammer gun, muzzle loader. (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici) (Last JC made gun)

1858: 10501 - 10910. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 410. .VII; VIII; *10. 10782; 10a. 10811; **3. 10655; **4. 10738; **6. 10811
. . . . .VII. Early Aug â€58 - 315 Oxford St. (Oxford Street) opened
. . . . .VIII. Early Aug â€58 – Company name changes to “Reilly & Co.”
10537 - (name/address not mentioned). Bore ??, Single barrel rifle. Muzzle loader. Stub twist barrel, flush sights, hair trigger, patch box in stock. (JC home inventory)
10619 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; .380 cal; Rifle, single barrel, hammer gun, muzzle loader, "Park Rifle." Scroll guard extension.
10621 - Reilly, London; .376 cal. Rifle; Single barrel, hammer gun, muzzle loader.
10641*- E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 12 bore. SxS; center break, converted pin-fire, single-bite under-lever under forearm, hammer gun; Lefaucheux/Lang system (Brum proofs; S.Breeden name on action) *gun dates to circa 1861-2
10655- E.M. Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London; 12 ga. SxS; center break, pin-fire, under-lever, hammer gun; Lefaucheux's pin-fire system. (New Zealand)
10670 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; ?? Cal. Rifle; SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader.
10738- Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; .350 cal, single-barrel, breech loader. (10438 on hammer). Frederic Prince patent.
10771 - Reilly & Co., London. .577 bore, single -barrel, breech loader. Frederic Prince patent.. 1st use of "Reilly & Co.”
10782- Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. .577 cal; Rifle; single barrel, breech loader, hammer gun.31" brls. Frederic Prince patent.
10811- Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .25 bore (sic) (probably .577), single barrel breech-loader hammer gun, Frederic Prince Patent (1st use of "Oxford St.")

1859: 10911 - 11350. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 440. .IX; *11. 11227.
. . . . .IX. Mar â€59 – Company Name changes to "E.M. Reilly & Co."
10952 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London; 8 bore single barrel shotgun; U-L, hammer gun. 44’ brl (remanufactured in 1884 and renumbered 26333)
11186 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (Address not given); .577 cal Enfield rifle later converted to Snider sporting rifle.
11227- E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal. Rifle; Enfield, 3 band, hammer gun, muzzle loader 1st extant SN gun with "E.M. Reilly & Co." on rib

1860: 11351 - 11800. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 450. .X; **12. 11716
. . . . .X. 11716 - Dec â€60 – Plaque on rifle - presented as a prize Christmas 1860
11396 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 & 502, Oxford Street, London; .577 cal Enfield rifle, 2 band, hammer gun, muzzle loader. (From surviving bayonet)
11419 - Reilly, 315 & 502, Oxford Street, London; .577 cal Enfield rifle, 2 band, hammer gun, muzzle loader. (1st SN'd long gun with "315")
11600 - Reilly, 315 & 502, Oxford Street, London; .577 cal. Single barrel Percussion rifle; Key fixed forearm - no bands.
11629 - Reilly, (address not mentioned). 577 cal. Enfield rifle; 2 band hammer gun, percussion rifle. Brum proofs.
11645 - Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London. 100 bore; Rifle, single barrel, breech loader, Frederic Prince patent
11651 - E.M. Reilly, Oxford Street, London. .577 cal; Enfield rifle, hammer gun, muzzle loader converted to Snider breech loader by Reilly (name/address on side plate).
11716- E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; .577 Enfield rifle. muzzle loader, volunteer rifle. Presented as a prize Christmas 1860
11790 - (name/address not mentioned). 20 bore, single barrel Shotgun, for a youth. (JC home inventory)

1861: 11801 - 12250. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 450..XI.
. . . . .XI. Early Apr â€61 - Trade labels change to "Gun Manufacturer"
11820 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 12 gauge, Shotgun SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader, steel barrels?
11864 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London; 12 bore, .600 cal Cape Gun SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader
11937 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London; 4 bore, Shotgun single barrel; U-L, non-rebounding hammer gun (original muzzle loader, converted to center-break/center-fire by J. Squires)
12002 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #1, Reilly manufacture (originally a type 3 Enfield Rifle-musket)
12069 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 & 502, Oxford Street, London; .451 cal. Rifle; hammer gun, muzzle loader.
12073 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 & 502, Oxford Street, London; .451 cal. Rifle: hammer gun, muzzle loader; Sutherland rifle target sight
12088 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not legible); .451 cal. Rifle; hammer gun, muzzle loader.
12207 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not legible); 17 ga/.488 cal Cape gun; hammer gun, muzzle loader.

1862: 12251 - 12710. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 450. .XII; *13. 12532
. . . . .XII. 12532 - Aug â€62 - Documented London exposition gun bought by Prince of Wales
12251 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London; Cape rifle SxS 25 bore .500. U-L, hammer gun.
12316 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 14 bore, Shotgun SxS. pin-fire, U-L hammer gun, non-rebounding hammer, grip safety, extractor.
12453 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 16 bore. Shotgun SxS. pin-fire, U-L hammer gun, non-rebounding hammer. 30” brls. Jones patent U-L
12507 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577 3 band Enfield rifle. muzzle loader.
12527 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 10 bore, Shotgun SxS. pin-fire (converted), U-L hammer gun, rebounding hammers (added)
12251 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London; SxS Cape rifle .25 bore/.500 cal; hammer gun, muzzle loader.
12532- E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London; 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. gilded hammer gun, muzzle loader. London Exposition gun
12543 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London; 14 bore, hammer-gun, Lefaucheux forward facing U-L. Traces of a Liège proof mark.
12681 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London; .451 cal, single barrel Whitworth rifle. (E.M. Reilly on locks). 33” brl

1863: 12711 - 13160. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 450
12861 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. hammer gun, muzzle Loader.
12855 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 14 bore, shotgun SxS. hammer gun; muzzle Loader.
12920 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 14 bore Shotgun SxS. hammer gun, muzzle loader;
12982 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 10 bore rifle. hammer gun, muzzle loader. 28” brls
13033 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 20 bore; Shotgun SxS; pin-fire, Jones under-lever (U-L), hammer gun.
13081 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 14 bore SxS shotgun, pin-fire (converted), U-L, non-rebounding hammer gun.
13132 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 40 bore (.50) SxS Percussion breech-loading Rifle, Terry's patent
13155 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London. SxS cape gun; 14 bore shotgun/20 bore rifle. Percussion muzzle loader.
13165 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; .451 single brl military target rifle; hammer gun, muzzle-Loader. 5 groove rifling.

1864: 13161 - 13590. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430. .*14. 13326; *14a.13333
13194 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (no address-parts only). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. pin-fire, back action, hammer gun
13224 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (sleeved barrels). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. pin-fire (converted), U-L, back-action hammer gun.
13308 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 14 bore Shotgun SxS. pin-fire (converted), U-L.
13326 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #16, Reilly manufacture
13333- E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #23, Reilly manufacture
13538 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #99, Reilly manufacture
13xxx - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #103, Reilly manufacture
13578 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS shotgun, hammer gun, muzzle-loader.
13580 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 8 bore, shotgun, single barrel, pin-fire, U-L hammer gun.
13590 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London. 10 bore; Rifle SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader. Scroll guard extension.
13599 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore; Rifle SxS, hammer gun, muzzle loader.2 groove double express

1865: 13591 - 14020. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430
13602 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (rib relaid in India), 8 bore, Double Rifle; muzzle loader (numbered 296 on replaced trigger guard - India)
13688 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 20 bore; Shotgun single barrel (originally a rifle); center-fire, U-L, hammer gun. Joseph Brazier action; (first extant center-break, center-fire rifle)
13691 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammer gun, full scroll work.
13694 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; Shotgun Single brl. 14 bore, percussion muzzle loader. 32” brl.
13812 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; Shotgun SxS. 12 ga. pin-fire, U-L, hammer gun.
13816 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Shotgun SxS. 12 ga. pin-fire, U-L, hammer gun.
13884 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London; .577 single barrel breech loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - use #159
13914 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (stock, action, forend); 12 bore, Single barrel Shotgun. U-L, back-action hammer-gun.
13921 - (name/address not mentioned). 12 bore, SxS Shotgun. Double-grip (Jones) U-L over guard, hammer gun. (JC home inventory)
13927 - (name/address not mentioned). 12 bore, SxS Shotgun. Double-grip (Jones) U-L over guard, hammer gun. (JC home inventory)
13937 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London; 17 bore Shotgun SxS, pin-fire; U-L, hammer gun.

1866: 14021 - 14460. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 440. .**5. 14115
. .++UK Financial panic.
14115 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Shotgun SxS; center-fire, U-L, non-rebounding hammer gun; wedgefast forearm; (First extant center-break, center-fire shotgun)( See 1866 patents for centerfire primer shells for shotguns)
14161 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford St., London. 10 bore Shotgun SxS. Muzzle-loader, hammer gun.
14201 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 20 bore SxS shotgun, U-L, Hammer gun. Originally a .577 SxS rifle, pin-fire, then modified to C-F to shoot Snider ammunition. (Terry Weiland)
14356 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore shotgun SxS, pin-fire; U-L. Brum proofs

1867: 14461 - 14910. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 450
14469 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore shotgun, SxS; pin-fire; U-L, bar-in-wood.
14580 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader.
14650 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore shotgun, SxS; pin-fire (converted) to center-fire, U-L, hammer gun. 8lbs 3 oz. 32” brls.
14666 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). 8 bore SxS shotgun; C-F, U-L; steel 40” barrels 16; 3/4 lbs
14672 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London; 12 ga Shotgun SxS. pin-fire, U-L, back action, hammer gun.
14763 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Single barrel breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - use #177

1868: 14911 - 15610. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 700. .XIII; *15. 14983; ##2.
. . . . .XIII. Mid Feb â€68 - 2 rue Scribe, Paris opened
. . . . .##2. 1868 - Proof stamp change
14983- E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & 2, rue Scribe, Paris; 8 bore. Shotgun SxS; U-L, hammer gun (center-fire hammers). (First Rue Scribe, Paris address).
14985 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 16 ga. Shotgun SxS; pin-fire (converted) to center-fire, U-L, hammer gun.
14995 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS; pin-fire (converted) to center-fire, U-L, NR hammer gun.
..3402 (outlier) - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe Paris; .577 cal, Rifle SxS; hammer gun, muzzle Loader.
15021 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 Snider Enfield Volunteer 3 band rifle. German silver rearsight cover stamped "Snider"
15047 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 Rifle. Single barrel, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #325
15129 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS; pin-fire, U-L, hammer gun.
15143 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 Oxford Street, London, 12 ga. Shotgun SxS; U-L, hammer gun.
15227 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577. Enfield Rifle, Snider conversion.
15239 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street., London. .577. Rifle, Snider-Enfield 2-band; Brum proof.
15255 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 10 bore Shotgun SxS, pin-fire, U-L, hammer gun. Pistol grip stock.
15270 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street London & rue Scribe Paris. .577 Rifle SxS; pin-fire (converted), U-L. BPE. Non-rebounding hammers.
15272 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Rifle SxS., pin-fire (converted), Black Powder proof for 13 bore, U-L, hammer gun.
15283 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS; pin-fire (converted), U-L, hammer gun.
15287 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS'. center-fire (original), U-L, hammer gun.
15318 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS; pin-fire (converted), U-L, hammer gun
15346 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS; U-L, hammer gun
15531 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .50 cal Rifle Single barrel. Enfield type. hammer gun, muzzle loader.
15564 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 8 bore, shotgun SxS. C-F. U-L hammer gun (SN not clear)(Turkey)

1869: 15611 - 16310. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 700
15625 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London, 2, rue Scribe Paris. 4 bore. Shotgun SxS. pin-fire (converted); U-L, hammer gun.
15654 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 16 bore. Shotgun single barrel, U-L non-rebounding back-action hammer.
15774 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. center-break, C-F, U-L. Non-rebounding hammers.
15837 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. SxS rifle; U-L, rebounding-hammer gun. Extractors. 30” brls. First (original) rebounding hammers.
15857 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. center-break, C-F, U-L. Non-rebounding hammers.
15961 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. SxS rifle; U-L, hammer gun.
15964 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford St., London. 4 bore SxS rifle. pin-fire, U-L, hammer gun.
16015 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga SxS shotgun. pin-fire, U-L, hammer gun.
16036 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 Snider breech-loading rifle, sporterized
16139 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London & Paris. 12 bore. SxS rifle. pin-fire (converted) U-L, hammer gun, rebounding bar-locks. Gold washed (Douglas Tate)
16148 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 20 bore SxS Shotgun. U-L, Hammer gun.
(1)6249 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammer gun (action, stock, forend only)
16257 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. pin-fire, U-L, hammer gun.

1870: 16311 - 17010. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 700
16341 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577 cal. Rifle, Snider SxS. pin-fire (converted), U-L, hammer gun (Weiland); Thomas brains ejector pat use #10487
16356 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore Shotgun SxS. Purdey patent push forward U-L, hammer gun.
16359 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (action, stock, forearm only) 12 bore shotgun SxS. S-L, hammer gun.
16442 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. center-fire, U-L, hammer gun.
16443 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammer gun.
16583 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 8 mm. Shotgun SxS. center-fire, smoothbore. U-L, hammer gun.
16585 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. 10 ga. Rifle SxS. center-fire, U-L, hammer gun.
16607 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577. Rifle; Single barrel. Snider Enfleld breech-loader.
16696 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Single barrel Shotgun. pin-fire U-L, round-body, hammer gun
16720 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577 (Snider cartridge) SxS rifle; pin-fire (converted), U-L, Hammer gun.
16755 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & 2, rue Scribe, Paris. Purdey snap thumb hole; hammer gun.
16765 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & 2, rue Scribe, Paris. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. center-fire, U-L, rebounding hammer gun, extractor.
16768 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. center-fire, U-L, hammer gun.
16769 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (action, stock, fore-end). 12 bore Shotgun SxS. Purdey thumb lever, Hammer gun.
16808 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS; pin-fire (converted), U-L, hammer gun.
16810 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. pin-fire, U-L, hammer gun.
16830 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & 2, rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. pin-fire (converted), U-L, hammer-gun.
16834 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & 2, rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore shotgun SxS, pin-fire (converted), U-L, hammer gun.
16961 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Rifle SxS. pin-fire, U-L hammer gun.
16987 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London. Rifle SxS. hammer gun, muzzle loader. (stolen in Australia, 1875).

1871: 17011 - 17710. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600. .XIV; *16. 17584
. . . . .XIV. Oct â€71 – 17574 – Rifle given as a present per a plaque
17x9x - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris; 12 gauge shotgun, SxS, hammer-gun.
17204 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & 2, rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore shotgun SxS, pin-fire, U-L non-rebounding hammergun.
17230 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, Oxford Street, London. 10 bore, Rifle SxS BPE. U-L, hammer gun. 26” brls. Striking safety. Horsley patent B127.
17244 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (Barrels by E.J. Churchill (Gun Makers) Ltd, 8 Agar Street, Strand, London). 12 bore. SxS Shotgun, center-fire, U-L, hammer gun
17261 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; .577 Double Rifle, pin-fire (converted), U-L, hammer gun.
17330 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS shotgun; Purdey Snap-Action Thumb hole U-L hammer gun; rebounding locks. 8 lb 4 oz, 32” brls.
17391 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 8 bore. Shotgun SxS. pin-fire (converted), U-L, hammer gun.
17392 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 16 ga SxS Shotgun; C-F, S-L, hammer-gun.
17393 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and 2, rue Scribe, Paris; 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. C-F, Push-forward U-L, hammer gun. Purdey Pat 1104, use #948
17407 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577 Snide-Enfield rifle. 28” Steel barrel.
17476 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. C-F, U-L, Hammer gun (Purdey Pat 1104)
17495 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 12 bore Shotgun SxS. U-L, pin-fire converted, hammer gun.
17532 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street and rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS, muzzle loader. Empress Eugenie.
17534 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; 12 bore, SxS shotgun. C-F, push-forward U-L, hammer gun, Purdy 1104 patent use #1037.
17552 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 13 bore, Shotgun SxS. pin-fire (converted); U-L, hammer gun.
17556 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore, SxS shotgun. U-L, hammer gun.
17568 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577 SxS rifle, U-L, hammer gun
17573 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London & Paris (no further info); .450 SxS Rifle. BPE. U-L, hammer gun. Restocked in India. 26“ brls.
17574 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London, rue Scribe, Paris. .500/.450 SxS rifle, U-L, non-rebounding hammer gun. Henry Pat #410, 411
17612 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12ga. SxS shotgun, C-F, thumbhole U-L, hammer gun.
17626 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .450 SxS Rifle. BPE. C-F, U-L, hammer gun. Henry Pat #408, 409
17695 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore Shotgun SxS. U-L, C-F, hammer gun
17697 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (Sleeved - no address). 12 bore Shotgun SxS. U-L, C-F, hammer gun

1872: 17711 - 18310. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
17766 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. center-fire, U-L, Hammer gun
17939 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. Rook rifle, .380 single barrel, S-L, hammer gun.
17979 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. Rifle SxS. .577. U-L, hammer gun
18xxx - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .450 SXS BPE Rifle, U-L, hammer gun.

1873: 18311 - 18910. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
18514 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 8 bore. Single barrel rifle; Snider Patent & Newmark's Patent
18523 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore Shotgun SxS; U-L, hammer gun, Purdey patent 1104, use #2135
18533 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (steel re-barrel); 16 ga SxS Shotgun. U-L, hammer gun.
18534 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street & rue Scribe, Paris: 8 bore, SxS; rifle; U-L, hammer gun, 28" barrel.
18536 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (Illegible). 20 bore, Shotgun SxS. U-L, back action hammergun.
18538 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. .577 BPE SxS rifle. U-L, hammer gun; back action hammers; grip tail trigger guard. 28” brls.
18547 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 15 bore. Shotgun SxS; pin-fire, U-L, hammer gun. Needham's Patent
18550 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. .577 BPE. Rifle SxS; U-L, hammer gun(Buffum).
18593 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London and rue Scribe, Paris. 8 bore, SxS shotgun; original C-F, U-L, Hammer gun.
18595 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .450 BPE. Rifle SxS. BPE; U-L, hammer gun, Henry Patent A&T use# 415, 416.
18653 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. .450 BPE. SxS rifle. U-L, Hammer gun. Henry Pat #1158.
18670 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. .450 BPE Rifle SxS. U-L, hammer gun. 3 1/4” chamber, gold line on rib, rebounding back-action hammers, 26” brls
18677 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS Shotgun. Purdey thumb hole U-L, hammer gun. 30” solid rib.
18688 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 8 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammer gun
18690 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun. U-L, Hammer gun. Game bird engraving.
18711 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS Shotgun. U-L, Hammer gun.
18721 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. .450 BPE single brl Rifle. U-L, L-H hammer gun. Henry action par 1071 use #1159.
18748 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. .360 SxS BPE rifle. Thumb hole U-L, hammer gun. Henry rifling; Purdey 1104 use# 3313. 6lbs 8oz, 24” brls
18757 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. .450 BPE SxS Rifle. U-L, hammer gun (rebounding dolphins). Henry rifling.
18763 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 10 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, rebounding bar locks hammer gun.
18766 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 500 BPE. Rifle SxS; U-L, rebounding hammer gun.
18773 - E.M. Really & Co., (address not provided). 12 bore SxS Shotgun. U-L, hammer Gun. Viscount Hill of Hawkstone. #1 of trio (not extant)
18775 - E.M. Really & Co., (address not provided). 12 bore SxS Shotgun. U-L, hammer Gun. Viscount Hill of Hawkstone. #2 of trio (not extant)
18775 - E.M. Really & Co., (address not provided). 12 bore SxS Shotgun. U-L, hammer Gun. Viscount Hill of Hawkstone. #3 of trio.
18782 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (action/stock only). 12 bore, U-L, hammer gun.
18797 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street London & rue Scribe, Paris. .500 SxS BPE rifle, U-L, hammer gun, Henry Patent A&T use# 399, 400.
188xx - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .500 SXS BPE Rifle, U-L, hammer gun.
18856 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street London & rue Scribe. Paris. SxS .500 BPE rifle. U-L, rebounding back-action hammer gun. Henry Patent A&T use# 448, 449.
18860 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street London & rue Scribe. Paris. 4 bore Shotgun SxS. U-L, non-rebounding hammer gun.


. .Have run out of room - See following page for post 1873 guns and footnotes:
Identified and Extant gun list continued from previous page:


1874: 18911 - 19510. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
18954 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 500 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L, rebounding hammer gun.
19004 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .45 cal BPE. Single barrel, two groove express rifle. Muzzle Loader (S. African gun)
19187 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 39 bore (.50 Cal) SxS Rifle, U-L, hammer gun. (S. Africa)
19190 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS, hammer gun; Purdey patent snap-action push-forward U-L, Parson's Patent 201, 20Jan68 use #895, Scott key 1873 fore-end patent 3756. 25.5" barrels.
19200 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned - rebarreled?). 12 ga SxS Shotgun. S-L, hammer gun.
19212 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 8 bore, SxS Shotgun, U-L, hammer gun. 14 lbs, 36” brls
19286 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 10 bore. Shotgun SxS. S-L?, Rebounding hammer gun. H.Walker patent 455, 12 Feb 1872 - use #1098).
19354 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Shotgun (originally rifle). 20 bore, single brl. U-L, hammer gun.
19500 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 ga (18 stamp) Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammer gun. 30” damascus.
19514 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 15 bore single barrel shotgun, percussion muzzle-loader.

1875: 19511 - 20110. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600. .##3
. . . . .##3 – Proof Change: “Not for Ball” added
19537 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 12 bore. SxS shotgun. Side Lever, hammer gun. 28” barrels
19827 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. S-L, hammer gun.
19951 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 12 bore. SxS shotgun. Thumbhole U-L, hammer gun. 32" barrels. 9 lbs 8.5oz (Originally rifle?)
19953 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 500 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L hammer gun, steel barrels. Round back-acton lock. First steel barrel?
19954 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. .500 BPE SxS Rifle. Top lever, rebounding back-locks. Henry Patent; Purdey patent 1104
20100 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Shotgun SxS. Ga. not mentioned, U-L hammer gun. no other info

1876: 20111 - 20690. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 580. .**6. 20459; **7. 20623
20112 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 16 bore SxS Shotgun. Hammer gun; push forward U-L. Purdey 1104 pat use#4257.
20125 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. (French).
202xx - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 500 BPE double rifle. U-L, hammer gun. Henry rifle patents.
20249 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris; Shotgun SxS, 12 bore, U-L hammer gun. (Italy)
20255 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga, Shotgun SxS; top lever, hammer gun.
20265 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577/500 Rifle SxS. U-L, hammer gun.
203xx - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 500 BPE SxS rifle. U-L, hammer gun. Henry rifle patents.
20377 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); Shotgun SxS. 12 bore, U-L, hammer gun.
20396 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 20 ga. Shotgun SxS. S-L, hammer gun.
20443 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (replacement 28” steel barrels). 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. S-L, hammer gun
20459- E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 16 ga, Shotgun SxS. S-L, hammer gun. First extant gun confirmed with "not for ball"
20466 - E.M, Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 10 Bore. Shotgun SxS. Top-Lever hammer gun. Purdey pat 1104 use #3463; No "Not for Ball"
20467 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. S-L, hammer gun.
20469 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 8 ga, Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammer gun. 34” brls, 3 1/4” chambers.
20474 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. T-L, hammer gun. Purdey pat 1104; Scott spindle use#1081; No "Not for Ball"
20498 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address indistinct). 12 ga Shotgun. SxS, top lever hammer gun with ejector. (India).
20538 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock, non-ejector, U-L, Back action hammer gun.
20614 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Shotgun SxS. S-L, hammer gun.
20623- E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, rebounding hammer gun. (Purdey patent 1104 use #3928)
20647 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. 20 bore. Shotgun SxS. S-L. hammer gun, 26" brls
20659 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammer gun. Stanton locks. 7lbs 8.7 oz. 30” damascus.
20674 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .500 (3") BPE SxS rifle. U-L, Hammer gun.
20681 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS, Shotgun, S-L, hammer gun. "Not for Ball"

1877: 20691 - 21270. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 580
20740 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS, Shotgun, U-L, back-action hammer gun. Rebounding hammers .
20808 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. .500 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L, rebounding hammers.
20827 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 10 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, rebounding sidelock hammer gun.
20828 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammer gun.
20888 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 16 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammer gun; Scotts patent of 1874 with side bar locks
20961 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 8 bore, Shotgun Single barrel; U-L, hammer gun. 39.5” brl; 3.5" chambers
20971 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. T-L, hammer gun. John Hall snap action patent 2396-71 use# 563.
20974 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Push forward U-L, hammer gun.
20991 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (28” barrels sleeved). 12 ga., Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammer gun.
21098 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (no other info). 10 bore. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock, U-L, bar action hammer gun.
21099 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock, hammer gun. Black powder proof.
21103 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun single barrel. U-L, hammer gun. Black powder proof. Steel barrel.
21130 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 10 bore. Shotgun SxS. center-fire, U-L, Hammer gun
21131 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock, hammer gun. Locks by Stanton. Black powder proof. 8 lbs 14 oz.

1878: 21271 - 21850. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 580. .*8. 21839
21300 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .450 BPE SxS Rifle. U-L, back-action hammer gun. Black powder proof.
21304 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .450/.500 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L, hammer gun.
21307 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .500 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L, hammer gun.
21308 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .450 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L, hammer gun.
21338 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, rebounding hammer gun. #1 of pair (non extant)
21339 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, rebounding hammer gun. #2 of pair
21361 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. .450 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L, hammer gun. Henry patent use #3524, #3525
21367 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 450 single barrel rifle, U-L, hammer gun. Lancaster pat use# 831
21369 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .450 BPE Rifle SxS. U-L, hammer gun. Henry patent A&T use #3793, #3794; JP Patent 1452
21403 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun single barrel. U-L, hammer gun
21440 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford Street, London; 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. U-L, back-action hammer gun.
21470 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris; Shotgun SxS, 16 gauge; top lever, hammer gun.
21486 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .450 Double rifle. BPE, U-L hammer gun. Henry rifling
21534 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 8 bore SxS; U-L, hammer rifle. Non-rebounding locks
21761 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 500 BPE. snap U-L, hammer gun.
21839- E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 20 bore, SxS Shotgun. Top lever, hammer gun. (Scott spindle pat 2752, use# 8699)

1879: 21851 - 22430. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 580
21869 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 8 bore, single shotgun. U-L hammer gun, Brum proofs.
21883 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (on side plates-rebarreled); 20 ga. Shotgun SxS. U-L, rebounding hammer gun.
21924 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 20 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L hammer gun
21965 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 8 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, back-action hammer gun. (Stock, forearm, action - barrels available).
22038 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammer gun.
22068 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 8 cal BPE. Rifle SxS. Back side lock hammer gun.
22074 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 8 bore Single brl Shotgun. U-L, Hammer gun.
22077 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Hammerless, U-L.
22093 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel barrels, U-L, Hammer gun. Thomas Woodward action.
22112 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga Shotgun SxS. U-L, Lang trigger plate action; internal hammer.
22210 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315, Oxford Street London. 12ga? Shotgun SxS. Sidelever, hammergun. No ejector. Bar action locks.
22228 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 10 ga, Shotgun (originally a rifle) SxS. U-L, hammer gun.
22402 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (stock, action, forearm). 20 bore, Shotgun SxS. S-L, hammer gun.
22423 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe Paris. 12 bore SxS shotgun; S-L, hammer gun. Bar in wood. Anson release
22432 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford St., London. .577 SxS BPE Rilfle. U-L, hammer gun.

1880: 22431 - 23010. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 580. .**9. 22482
22482- E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned), 12 bore SxS Shotgun. BLE. A&D use # 1156
22507 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned), 12 bore SxS Shotgun. T-L, hammer gun. 30” brls
22525 - E.M. Reilly & C0., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS Shotgun. U-L, hammer gun; cross-bolted fore-end.
22574 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. .360 Double Rifle; U-L., steel barrels, hammer gun, rebounding back locks. Henry patent rifling.

1881: 23011 - 23630. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 620. .XV; *17. 23536.; **10. 23536; **11. 23574
. . . . .XIV. Nov â€81 – Oxford Street renumbered: 502 to 16; 315 to 277
23012 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .360 single barrel rifle, U-L, hammer gun. 28” blued barrel.
23137 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris; 8 bore, Shotgun single barrel U-L, hammer gun.
23153 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris; 8 bore, Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammer gun.
23172 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315, Oxford St., London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever. hammer gun. W.Anson/6912/patent.
23236 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever. BLNE, W-R pattern. A&D patent use #1366.
23248 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 12 bore. Shotgun SxS; top lever, BLNE.
23338 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 12 bore. Shotgun SxS; hammer gun.
23355 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Top lever, pigeon, hammer gun.
23362 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 16 bore. Shotgun SxS; top lever, bar in wood, hammer gun.
23515 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, back action hammer gun.
23536- E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. Shotgun SxS 12 ga. BLNE. Steel Barrels; Westley-Richards style action. (A&D Patent use #3814 )(1st use of renumbered addresses 277, 16)
23574- E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore; Shotgun SxS; S-L, Pigeon gun, third bite, hammer gun. 8 lbs. (Whitworth patent) (First Whitworth barrels )

1882: 23631 - 24680. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1050. .**12; **13. 24534
. . . . .- **13. 1882 increased production – Selling off the rack; buying boxlocks in the white
23746 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 36 ga. Rifle SxS. BPE top lever, back action, hammer gun.
23763 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore; Shotgun SxS; top lever, S-L, pigeon gun. 7lbs11oz, 27” brls
23816 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London. .22 LR (relined). Rook rifle. S-L, hammer gun.
23837 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London. 12 bore; Shotgun SxS; top lever, BLNE
23843 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammer gun.
23849 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577 SxS BPE rifle; 3" chamber, top lever, hammer gun; Henry rifling patent
23898 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 28 bore SxS. S-L Shotgun.
24354 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315, Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. top lever, steel barrels, hammer gun.
24362 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (sleeved 28” barrels); 16 bore. Shotgun SxS; top lever, BLNE. W-R style top lever
24365 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentione4d). Shotgun SxS, 12 bore, top lever, 31" whitworth steel barrels, pigeon gun.
24398 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315, Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris; .500 BPE. Rifle SxS. 28" barrels. Best engraving, U-L, hammer gun.
24534- E.M. Reilly & Co., 315, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun pigeon gun; top lever, hammer gun. 31” brls. 7 lbs 8 oz (Cyril Adams)
24627 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. .500 BPE. Rifle SxS. Top lever, hammer gun
24650 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore, S-L, hammer gun. Pigeon gun, 30” 7lbs7oz
24672 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 16 ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammer gun.
24675 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS. top lever, hammerless, back lock, non-ejector. Scott triplex action patent 761.

1883: 24681 - 25730. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1050
24701 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (stock, action, forend). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLNE
24716 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London. .28 bore Shotgun SxS. U-L, Hammer gun. 28” brls.
24736 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (stock, action, forend). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Scott triplex action Pat 761 use #339, Perks, crystal indicators, Scott gas check Pat 617 use #1233.
24737 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. S-L.
24820 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (Steel replacement barrels by Norwich.). 28 bore Shotgun SxS, Side-lever, hammer gun.
24850 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (rebarrelled). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, side lock.
24937 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London. 25 bore (.577) single barrel rifle. (Barrel only)
24956 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address sleeved). 16 bore. Shotgun SxS. BLNE. Treble-grip.
24963 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford St., London. Cal unknown. F.S.Worthington on Case. from the diary of Linley Sanbourne. #1 of pair.
24964 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford St., London. Cal unknown. F.S.Worthington on Case. from the diary of Linley Sanbourne. #2 of pair.
24970 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS Shotgun, top lever, hammer gun.
25038 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Sreet, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 Bore Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammerless. Scott triplex action pat 761, use #200; Needham/Hinton sears (Pat 705) 1879 patent.
25039 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Sreet, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 Bore Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammerless. Scott triplex action pat 761, use #283;
25044 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 Bore Shotgun SxS. Top lever, BLE; Best engraving.Half-pistol grip with sling swivels. Joseph Brazier Ashes action; W-R top lever; doll’s head; A&D use #2189
Xxxxx - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. .500 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L, non-rebounding hammers.
Xxxxx - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London & 2, rue Scribe, Paris. 8 bore. Rifle SxS. Hammer gun, muzzle loader. (NZ)
25161 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. .500 BPE/12 ga. Rifle/Shotgun; side lever, hammer gun. (King of Spain prize - 1880 case; Purdey double-bite patent 1104
25171 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315, Oxford St., London. 12 bore, top-lever Box Lock. #1 of pair (non-extant)
25172 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315, Oxford St., London. 12 bore, top-lever Box Lock. #2 of pair
25183 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (rebarreled - Lindsey barrels). 12 bore SxS Shotgun. top lever, hammerless, side lock.
25206 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga shotgun SxS. U-L, Hammergun
25232 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London. Shotgun SxS. U-L, back action hammer gun.
25272 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. .577 BPE/12 ga. Rifle/Shotgun Cape gun; under lever, hammer gun.
25273 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London. .450 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L, hammer gun.
25363 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London*. 8 bore, SxS Shotgun*. U-L hammer gun., 28" steel barrels (*rebarreled from a large bore rifle after 1903)
25449 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, late 502, New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 28 ga Shotgun (originally a rifle) SxS, top lever, hammerless. Anson fore-grip 1872 patent, use #7757 .
25460 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. top lever, hammerless, back action side lock, Steel barrels. Greener treble wedge system patent
25465 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga shotgun SxS. Hammergun.
25513 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. 10 bore SxS shotgun. Top lever, BLNE, Pistol grip; A&D use #4343
25516 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. top lever, box lock, side ejector.
25519 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London & Paris. 12 bore SxS shotgun. Top lever, BLNE. 7 lbs 6 oz, .0018, .0024 chokes. A&D use #3976
25572 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London and Paris, Gun & Rifle Manufacturers. .450 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L, hammer gun. "To Their Majesties Kings of Spain and Portugal."
25592 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. SxS shotgun. U-L, hammer gun.
25617 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 20 bore SxS Shotgun. U-L, Hammer gun.
25634 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford St., London. 12 Bore Shotgun SxS. U-L, round-body, hammer gun, 30” damascus
25675 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (actions, furniture only). Shotgun SxS. U-L, back-action, hammer gun.
25697 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford St. London. 12 bore. SxS shotgun. U-L, hammer gun. 30" Damascus. 7 1/2 lbs. Deeley fore-end.
25711 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford St. London. 8 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammer gun. “H. H. Maharana Shree Warhatsingji Loonawara”.
25713 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London. .577 single rifle, center-break, U-L snap action. Woodward 1876 pat #1315.
25724 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (no address, sleeved). 12 ga SxS Shotgun. BLE; fine scroll work.

1884: 25731 - 26780. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1050
25741 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 522, Oxford Street, London W(sic)*. 28 ga. Shotgun (likely originally a rifle) SxS, BLNE. (*barrels may have been changed)
25768 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS shotgun, Top lever, hammer gun
25825 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore shotgun, SxS.
25851 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. Shotgun SxS. 410. S-L, hammer gun.
25853 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. .410 bore shotgun, SxS. S-L, Hammer gun.
26107 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford St. London. .12 bore SxS shotgun. U-L, hammergun
26181 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (stock, action, forearm). 12 bore SxS shotgun, hammerless, top-lever box lock.
26210 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore, shotgun SxS. (details not known)(loading label)(gun modified after 1903)
26211 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore, shotgun SxS. (details not known)(Loading Label)(gun modified after 1903)
26218 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (no address mentioned). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. BLNE. (originally a rifle)
26281 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (stock, action, fore-arm). 12 bore SxS shotgun. Top lever, hammerless boxlock. Anson fore-arm
26333 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London; 8 bore single barrel shotgun; U-L, hammer gun. 44’ brl (remanufactured in 1884 using barrel flats, action, forehand numbered 10952)
26403 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .500 BPE SxS rifle. U-L, hammer gun.
26445 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .12 bore/.577 BPE Cape gun. Push forward, U-L, hammer gun.
26517 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (re-barreled - Chas Smith & Sons). 28 ga Shotgun SxS. U-L, Hammer gun.
26530 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .450. BPE SxS rifle. U-L, Hammer gun, 3 1/4” chamber’s. 28” brls.
26537 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun And Rifle Manufacturers. 20 ga. SxS shotgun (rebored rifle?) U-L, hammer gun.
26554 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris; .450 Cal Rifle SxS. U-L, hammer gun. Steel barrels. (SN ara "26434").
26567 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 12 ga, SxS Shotgun. Boxlock, top-lever; prince of wales stock (restocked?), steel barrels.
26584 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore Shotgun SxS. BLNE. (A&D use #8072)
26718 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .380 cal. Rifle Black Powder. BLNE. 7 lbs 5 oz.
26730 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Top key BLNE.
26731 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 12 ga, SxS Shotgun. Boxlock extractor, top-lever; 30” Damascus
26733 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 8 bore. Rifle SxS. top lever, hammerless; Scott Triplex action Pat 761, use #1948; crystal indicator.
26734 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .430 SxS Rifle BPE. Top lever, hammer gun, rebounding back locks

1885: 26781 - 27820. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1040. .XVI; *18. 27358
. . . . .XV. 01 Aug 1885 – rue Scribe, Paris closed
26781 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe Paris. .360 BPE, SxS rifle. AD Boxlock; Westley-Richards style "C" fastener, Top Lever.
26824 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammer gun, black powder proof.
26879 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (action, Stock, Forearm only). 12 bore SxS shotgun. BLNE
26880 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxfort Street, London & Paris. .500 Rifle SxS. BPE U-L, hammer gun.
26911 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 28 bore SxS shotgun. (Brum 1875-87 proofs).
26957 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 8 bore. Rifle Single. U-L, hammer gun.
26967 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Top Lever, hammer gun.
27005*- E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga Shotgun SxS. top lever, hammer gun. (SN 7005 - the "2" is hypothetical).
27103 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (action, stock, forearm); 12 bore Single barrel, Shotgun. U-L, hammer gun
27254 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Details unknown - unknown (gun question site)
27340 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. hammer gun.
27358 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Top Lever, NE. Perkes Patent action use #603; Gas Check patent use # 1614;(Last SN w/rue Scribe)
27377 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammerless; 3 barrel set, one steel. Scott Triplex Action, Perks, Crystal indicators.
27385 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (30” rebarrelled in 1937). .12 bore SxS shotgun. Top Lever, ejector. Scott Triplex Action; Perks 1968 use # 658, Crystal indicators; "Not for Ball.” Scott gas check use# 1705
27403 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .500 BPE rifle. U-L, hammer-gun
27405 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577/500 SxS BPE Rifle. U-L, hammer gun. 8 lbs, 11 oz. Henry rifling A&T
27446 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga SxS shotgun. Top Lever. Scott Triplex Action, Perks, Crystal indicators
27478*- E.M. Reilly & Co., (rebarreled by Midland). 12 bore SxS shotgun. A&D BLNE. (SN 7478 - *2 hypothetical).
27515 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Rook Rifle converted to .410. S-L, hammer gun.
27534 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (replacement Henry Atkin steel barrels). 16 ga Shotgun SxS. BLNE. 28” brls. Westley-Richards style action.
27548 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .410. single barrel, hammer gun.
27570 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 16ga. Shotgun SxS. Top-lever, hammer-gun. (Cyril Adams).
27593 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12 bore, SxS shotgun. BLNE. Westley Richards patent TL.
27644 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (Steel Barrels sleeved). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. top lever, hammerless, sidelock ejector. Westley-Richards style action. Scott triplex action Pat 761, Perks, crystal indicators.
27659 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .16 bore, SxS, Top lever, hammer gun. 29” Dam brls. 5lbs 14oz; "Not for Ball"
27665 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London; 16 ga Shotgun Single barrel. Top lever BLNE. "Not for Ball"
27687 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 20 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammergun. (rifle conversion).
27742 – E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore, SxS Shotgun. Top lever, hammer gun w/doll’s head. Anson forend. 30” barrels
27750 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. SxS. Whitworth steel barrels. bar-in-wood, push forward U-L, hammer gun.
27764 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .350 single barrel rook rifle converted to .410 shotgun. S-L, back action rebounding hammer.

1886: 27821 - 28860. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1040
27847 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .450 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L, ejectors, rebounding hammer gun.
27853 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Paris, Improved Patent. 16 bore, Shotgun SxS. Dolls Head; Side-clips; S-L, Scott triplex action Pat 761 use #2112; Perks, crystal indicators; Scott gas check Pat 617 use #1953, Whitworth Steel barrels, #1 of pair. "Not for Ball"
27854 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Paris, Improved Patent. 16 bore, Shotgun SxS. Dolls Head; Side-clips; S-L, Scott triplex action Pat 761 (use # not shown); Perks, crystal indicators; Whitworth steel barrels, # 2 of pair.
28001 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. SxS shotgun. U-L, hammer gun.
2804x?- E.M. Reilly & Co., (converted-rebarrel). .410. Rifle/shotgun single brl. Converted from rifle. Steel barrel. Top lever, hammer gun.
28086 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 20 bore SxS shotgun. Top lever, hammer gun. 30” Damascus brls.
28189 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga, shotgun SxS. 30” barrels, details not known (case label).
28290 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 8 bore Single barrel Shotgun. U-L, Hammer Gun. 12.4 Lbs
28502 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. BLNE.
28565 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned-rebarrelled). 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammer gun; 27” steel brls.
286xx - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. Top lever, steel 29" barrels. (Dutch).
28639 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (Stock, action, forearm). 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. Top lever, Hammer gun.
28650 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga Shotgun SxS. Top lever, BLE. AD pat; AD Ejector pat 1884.

1887: 28861 - 29900. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 800. . . . .##4
. . . . .##4. Proof Change: “Not for Ball” replaced by “choke” etc.
28843 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS Shotgun. T-L, BLNE.
28861 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London; 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, rebounding hammer gun.
29527 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 10 bore. Shotgun SxS. Black Powder, U-L, hammer gun.

1888: 29901 - 30940. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1040
30152 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS Shotgun. BLNE.
30166 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammer gun.
30207 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 10 ga. Shotgun SxS.
30227 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS shotgun. Westley-Richards type top lever/doll's head. BLNE.
30242 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. .500x3” BPE Rifle SxS. “Express Double Rifle”, pistol grip stock. 24” brls.
30245 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 8 bore BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L, hammer gun.
30247 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street., London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE.
30255 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 28 ga Shotgun SxS. Top lever, BLE. 27” sleeved brls, semi-pistol grip (orig. rifle?)
30257 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
30260 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore Shotgun SxS. Steel barrels boxlock.
30295 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Rifle SxS. 8 bore.
303xx - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel barrels. BLE, Built on Westley-Richards style action.. Not for Ball.
303xx?- E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. BLE. Top lever.
30342 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (London address obscured), rue..Paris? (on 2nd barrel). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock hammerless live pigeon gun.
30356 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock,S-L, back-action assisted opening, non-ejector. T.S.&Co safety patent 12011. #1 of pair
30357 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock,S-L, back-action assisted opening, non-ejector. T.S.&Co safety patent 12011. #2 of pair
30358 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 12 bore, S-L, hammer gun, pigeon gun. Steel barrels.
30363 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. Top lever, Steel barrels. Built on Westley-Richards style action. A&D ejector pat use #428; AD pat use #6250. #1 of pair.
303xx - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE, Top lever, Steel barrels. Built on Westley-Richards style action.. A&D ejector pat #427; AD pat use #6265. #2 of pair (Norway)
30375 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (no address - sleeved). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. Top Lever. Westley-Richards style action.. Anson & Deeley #1 of pair
30376 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (no address - sleeved). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. Top Lever. Westley-Richards style action.. Anson & Deeley #2 of pair
30284 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .410 Single barrel, T-L; Original rook rifle
30394 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. SxS shotgun, hammer gun. Jeffries patent ejector 7895-85 #1 of pair.
30395 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street (sleeved), London. 12 bore. SxS shotgun, hammer gun. Jeffries patent ejector 7895-85 #2 of pair.
30428 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. Sidelock, ejector.
30436 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .380. Rifle single barrel. BLE, Hammer gun, Park rifle.
30446 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford street, London. 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. BLE, doll's head W-R type top-lever; 30" Damascus. AD Patent use #7156
30456 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever Box lock.
30487 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford street, London. 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. BLE, doll's head W-R type top-lever; 30" Steel.
30680 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore Shotgun SxS. top lever hammer gun.
30768 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. A&D patent use #8245.
30775 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 16 ga. Shotgun SxS; T-L, Hammer gun
30782 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 10 cal SxS rifle. U-L, hammer gun. pistol grip.
30791 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. .380 BPE. Rifle SxS. Box lock. A&D boxlock pat use #????. (A&D Patent expired sep 1889)
30842 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (29” sleeved nitro barrels). 12 bore, Shotgun SxS, BLE
30843 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammer gun.
30846 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned. 450 BPE. Rifle SxS. BLE. Steel barrels.

1889: 30941 - 31840. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 900
31300 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 16 bore SxS Shotgun. Push-forward U-L, Hammer gun.

1890: 31841 - 32650. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 810
. .++Jul 1890 - EM Reilly dies.
32xxx - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore (chamber sleeved to 16) top lever, hammer gun.
32501 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). .450 SxS BPE riffle. U-L, Hammer gu. Deeley forend
32530 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .500 Rifle SxS. BLE.
32543 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (28” reproofed steel barrels, no address). 12 bore, BLE, treble grip action. #1 of pair
32544 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address unknown see above). 12 bore, BLE, treble grip action. #2 of pair (non extant)
32576 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. .410 rifle converted to shotgun, single barrel, push forward U-L.
32581 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 16 bore Shotgun SxS; T-L, BLE.
32645 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 7x57 (converted) single brl Carpathe rifle. Side-lock, top-lever, single shot. 7lbs 3oz. 25.5” brl.

1891: 32651 - 33250. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600. .XVII; *19. 32760
. . . . .XVII. Feb 1891– SN 32760 – Plaque on gun – “presented on 26 Mar 1891”
. . . . .-- *19. 32760 – Feb â€91– Plaque on gun – “presented on 26 Mar 1891”
32658 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (rebarrelled by Benjamin Wide, Brum). 12 bore Shotgun SxS; Sidelock, Scott patent gun; Perkes ejector pat 10679-86 use #290
32661 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga, shotgun SxS, BLE, self-opener.
32665 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. 30" brls
32667 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. 30" brls
32695 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE.
32760- E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SXS rifle. Top lever, BLE. Doll's head 28” barrels.AD boxlock pat use #11096; Deeley ejector pat use #2363 26 Mar 1991 presentation. (A&D Patent expired sep 1889)
32845 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 7x51mm Single Shot Carpathe Rifle. 25.5” brl
32862 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun.. Top lever hammer gun; (stock, forearm and case labels only)
32881 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun. U-L, hammer-gun.
32941 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (sleeved barrels). 12 bore SxS Shotgun; BLE, dolls head, full engraving. 30” brls, 5lbs 10oz
32971 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
32974 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock. Ball and Shot; A&D Pat use# 1224x.. 7lb 6oz; half-pistol grip; original rifle,
33239 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 12 bore, shotgun SxS, BLE. Doll's head.
33241 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (sleeved no address). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel barrels. BLE, Built on Westley-Richards style action. #1 of pair.
33242 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address unknown). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE, Steel brls. Built on Westley-Richards style action.. #2 of pair. (non-extant)
33243 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS (case label)
33244 - E.M. Reilly & Co,, (stock/forearm only). 12 bore SxS Shotgun. BLE.

1892: 33251 - 33600. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 350
33256 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun. BLE. (27" sleeved, rib relaid)
33263 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London.(rebarelled). 12 bore SxS Shotgun. Top lever, S-L. Perkes ejector pat 10679-86 use #183. Scott gas check #3645. #1 of pair.
33264 - E.M. Reilly & Co,, 277, Oxford Street, London.(rebarelled). 12 bore SxS Shotgun. Top lever, S-L. Perkes ejector pat 10679-86 use #239; Scott gas check #3837. #2 of pair
33269 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammergun.
33286 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. #1 of pair
33287 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. #2 of pair
33354 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 10 bore, Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammer gun; 34” Damascus barrels.
33357- E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore Shotgun SxS, BLE; #1 of Pair, non-extant
33358 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore Shotgun SxS, BLE (steel sleeved barrels); #2 of Pair
33419 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. .450 BPE SxS rifle. Anson forearm Pat use #28229
33428 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .500 x 3 1/4 SxS BPE rifle. Top lever, BLE. Cheek piece, 26” brls.
33453 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address unknown). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock ejector. #1 of pair. (non-extant)
33454 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (sleeved). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock ejector. Steel 30" brl. #2 of pair
33455 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (re barreled). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Side Lock, Ejector.
33457 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 8 bore SxS Shotgun. U-L, hammer-gun; pistol grip.
33487 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS (case label)
33490 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 16 bore, Shotun single barrel, U-L, hammer-gun.
33491 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 28 ga. Shotgun SxS. hammer gun. 24" brls. 3 lb 12.5 oz.
33508 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Perks cocking rod pat 1968-78 use# 2993. #1 of pair.
33509 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Perks cocking rod pat 1968-78 use# 29xx. #2 of pair. (non-extant)
33523 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (address not mentioned). 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. T-L, S-L. Two sets of brls. Greener cross bolt.
33526 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (sleeved 28” barrels). 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. BLE doll’s head. #1 of pair
33527 - E.M. Reilly & Co. (sleeved 28” barrels). 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. BLE doll’s head. #2 of pair (Non-extant)

1893: 33601 - 33880. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
33619 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (sleeved by Westley Richards 1960). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Steel barrel Sidelock. Westley-Richards style action.. Perkes ejector pat 10679-86 use #540
33623 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Shotgun SxS.
33627 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock, ejector.
33635 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Black Powder proof (case only)
33640 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (action, stock, forearm only) 12 bore SxS shotgun. BLE
33665 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. 6lbs 5oz, 30” Damascus.
33673 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 bore (original Rifle). SxS. top lever, hammer gun. steel barrels.
33713 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga SxS. Shotgun. BLNE. Steel barrels.
33727 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (steel 28" replacement brls). 12 ga SxS, Shotgun. Sidelock ejector.
33741 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS Shotgun. Sidelock ejector.
33747 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (replacement barrels by CS Rosson & Co.). 12 bore SxS shotgun. Top lever, side lock, ejector. #1 of pair
33748 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (replacement barrels by CS Rosson & Co.). 12 bore SxS shotgun. Top lever, side lock, ejector. #2 of pair.
33753 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS Shotgun. BLE.
33832 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (sleeved). 12 ga Shotgun SxS. Top lever, BLE.
33833 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (stock, action forend). 12 ga Shotgun SxS. Top lever, BLNE.
33858 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever side lock; replacement steel barrels. Perkes Patent 10679 Use #810; Scott gas check use #5897. #1 of pair.
33859 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever side lock; Perkes Patent 10679 Use #8xx; Scott gas check use #5897. #2 of pair. (non-extant)

1894: 33881 - 34160. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
33881 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, BLE, Steel brls.(2 brl set). Deeley ejector patent 4289 - use #4519.
33889 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, side lock, BLE, Steel brls. #1 of pair. (non-extant).
33890 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, side lock, BLE, Steel brls. #2 of pair.
33899 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford street, London. .577-450 Single-Shot Martini-Henry rifle. 28 3/4” brl.
33916 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (no further information). 30” barrels. #1 of pair (non-extant).
33917 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (no further information). 30” barrels. #2 of pair
33922 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS side lock ejector. (Cyril Adams).
33923 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (sleeved barrels). 12 bore Shotgun SxS, Side lock ejector.
33925 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore Shotgun SxS, Side lock ejector.
33941 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (sleeved barrels). 12 bore Shotgun SxS. BLE.
33950 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Side lock ejector.
33990 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Black Powder proof (case only)
33991 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford street, London. 16 bore Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammer gun, locks with name.

1895: 34161 - 34400. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
34164 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London, 12 ga, SxS shotgun.
34221 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 16 bore-.450. Cape gun SxS. #1 of pair.
34222 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 16 bore-.450. Cape gun SxS. #2 of pair.
34247 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS.
34250 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned) 12 bore SxS Shotgun BLNE.
34330 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .410. Side lever, hammer gun.
34334 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (Stock, action, fore-arm). 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. Top lever, BLE.

1896: 34401 - 34640. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240. .##5
. . . . .##5. Proof Change
34409 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (sleeved). 12 ga SxS Shotgun. BLE. 30" steel barrels.
34424 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. NE
34442 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (steel re-barrel - no address). 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. SLE. 26" steel barrels. Belgian proofs. re-stocked.
34478 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
34515 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. .500 BPE, SxS rifle. BLNE. Steel barrels
34523 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). SxS 12 bore. BLNE. Steel barrels
34555 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 8 bore Shotgun single-barrel. U-L, hammer gun. 11lbs 7oz.
34559 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (rebarrelled by WJ Jeffery.). 16 ga SxS Shotgun. BLE. 26.5” barrels
34572 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, Sidelock.
34582 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (rebarreled by Westley Richards). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammer gun, 28" steel.
34585 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, 6lb 10oz. 30" Steel brls (rebarreled after 1903?)
34598 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 16 ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, Hammer gun, Extractor. 28" Damascus barrels.

1897: 34641 - 34900. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240. .. .XVIII; *20. 34723
. . . . .XVIII. Early May closure of 16 New Oxford Street
34680 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. BLE
34689 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. (Sleeved) 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. BLE. 28” brls, 6 lbs 1 oz.
34680 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, BLE.
34691 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, SLE
34715 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Hammerless S-L, ejector.
34723- E.M Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, Hammer gun. Last SN with 16, New Oxford Street, London.
34865 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Top lever, BLE.

========Continued + footnotes below==============
===========identified gun list - Cont==============

1898: 34901 - 35030. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 160
35012 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 10 bore BPE SxS rifle. U-L, Hammer gun. Doll’s head, elevated rib.

1899: 35031 - 35140. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 110
. .++Jan 1899 - Death of Mary Ann Reilly.
35058 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS shotgun. Top lever, BLE
35079 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun. Top lever, SLE. brls proofed pre-1896; Southgate pat 12314; Southgate ejector trip pat 8239)
35094 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (1939 replacement brls). 20 bore. SLE.
35097 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (stock and action only). 28 ga, Shotgun SxS. BLE.

1900: 35141 - 35240. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 75. .**14. 35186
35165 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (rebarreled). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. SLE. 30" steel barrels
35186- E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. BLE. Steel barrels. Post 1898 trade label. London 1896-1904 proof marks

1901: 35241 - 35325. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70
35247 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Top-lever, hammerless Side-Lock.
35251 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. (frame/barrels)
35292 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (rebarreled by Robert Dollimore in NZ). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Push forward U/L.

1902: 35326 - 35385. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60
35367 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. Steel Barrels.

1903: 35386 - 35393. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 08. .XIX; *21. 35386
. . XIX. Feb '03 - 277 Oxford Street closes
35386- E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .410 SxS Shotgun. Top lever, Hammer gun.

1904: 35394 - 35435. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40. .XX; *22. 35394; ##6
. . . . .##4 - Proof change
. . . . .XX. May '04 - 295 Oxford Street opens
35594- E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London. .297/.250 Single barrel rook rifle; central hammer, S-L, ejector. 26" brls. (First SN with 295 Oxford.).
35398 - E.M. Reilly & Co. 295, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS shotgun BLE, treble grip.
35400 - E.M. Reilly & Co. 295, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS shotgun (case label).
35407 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (28” sleeved barrels). 12 bore SxS Shotgun. Top Lever, BLE
35422 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (action/stock/forearm only). 12 bore SxS shotgun., BLE. #1 of pair
35423 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. #2 of pair

1905: 35436 - 35475. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40
35453 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not known). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. Single trigger. #1 of pair (non-extant)
35454 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (sleeved, no address). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. Single trigger. #2 of pair
35458 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
35472 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (sleeved, no address). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.

1906: 35476 - 35515. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40
35493 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (barrels by Elderkin & Son. ). 16 ga. Shotgun SxS.
35494 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .450/.400 Cordite express SxS rifle. BLE. 26” brls.

1907: 35516 - 35555. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40. .**15. 35554
35527 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. Top lever, sidelock.
35535 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. Top lever, BLE. #1 of pair (non-extant)
35536 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. Top lever, BLE. #2 of pair
35543 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. Top lever, BLE. #1 of pair
35544 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. Top lever, BLE. #2 of pair (non-extant)
35551 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London. .300. Rifle Single barrel. Rook rifle. Sidelever.
35554- E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London. .500/.465 Nitro Express SxS BL rifle.

1908: 35556 - 35575. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20
..1832 (Outlier) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address unknown). 12 gauge SxS big bore rifle. 26" barrels, pistol grip. See 35554 above. #1 of pair (non-extant)
..1833 (Outlier) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (rebarrelled by John Harper). 12 gauge SxS Shotgun. BLE. Repurposed from a big bore rifle. 26" barrels, pistol grip. See 35554 above. #2 of pair
35570 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (26 3/4” sleeved nitro barrels). 12 bore, SxS Shotgun. Sidelock ejector. 6lbs12oz
35574 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. SxS Shotgun.

1909: 35576 - 35589. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
35583 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga, Shotgun SxS. Top lever, BLE

1910: 35590 - 35599. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
35594?- E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. SLNE. 30" Brls. (advertised as 35394)

1911: 35600 - 35685. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .85. .**16. 35614; *23. 35678
35614 - E.M. Reilly & Co. 295 Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun; self-cocking, Side-lock, ejector built by Holloway H8113 (1911)
35673 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock. #1 of pair.
35674 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock. #2 of pair.
35678- E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore Shotgun SxS. Boxlock. (Last extant Reilly)

1912: 35686 - 35700. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .15. . XXI;XXII.
. . . . .XXI. 06 Jun ’12: Bankruptcy declared 06 June; vacated 295 Oxford Street
. . . . .XXII. Aug ’12: 13 High Street, Marylebone opened

1913-1918: None known. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0. .XXIII
. . . . .XXIII. Jul ’18: 13 High Street, Marylebone closed

Post August 1922 -c1950: 128000 - 150000. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . .20,000?. .XXIV; *24. 128466; *25. 150570.
. . . . .XXIV. 18 Aug '22 - 1950? - Riggs production at 107, Bishopsgate, London
128466 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (nfi). 12 bore SxS Shotgun, 29" barrels. nfi
131065 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun. BLNE. 30” barrels. 2.5” chambers
133805 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (no barrel). 12 bore SxS Shotgun BLE (Action, stock, forearm)
134183 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 16 ga. SxS shotgun. BLNE
134481 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 ga. SxS shotgun. BLNE. 30” steel brls. 2.5” chambers
136238 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Ltd, London. 12 ga. SxS shotgun. BLNE. 28” steel brls. 2.5” chambers
136527 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Ltd, London. 12 ga. SxS shotgun. BLNE. 30” steel brls.
136535 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE.
136720 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 ga SxS Shotgun. hammer gun, extractor
138279 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 20 bore Shotgun SxS. BLE
139564 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun, hammer-gun
139614 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun, BLE
139801 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 12 bore Shotgun SxS. Hammer gun
140415 - E.M. Reilly, London. 16 bore shotgun SxS. 30" steel barrels
140451 - E.M. Reilly, London. 16 bore Shotgun SxS. (Charles Riggs, post 1917)
140717 - E.M. Reilly, London. 12 bore Shotgun SxS. BLNE.
144939 - E.M. Reilly, London, 12 bore Shotgun SxS. BLNE. 28" barrels.
144941 - E.M. Reilly, London, 12 bore Shotgun SxS. BLE, 28" barrels
146242 - E.M. Reilly & Co. Ltd., London; 12bore. Top lever hammer gun. Pistol grip stock.
147613 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London; 12 bore, SxS shotgun, top lever. Ejector.
150570 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock non-ejector. (Brm proofs)


]===================Evolution of Reilly Serial Numbers======================

Possible evolution of Reilly's serial number series for clarity using the date-marker extant guns:
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===================Footnotes to identified gun list======================

The process of dating the guns was difficult but with a methodology that was refined as the research developed, basically as follows:
1. Identify known chronological markers – usually dates of the change of addresses on ribs but occasionally dated SN’d gun.
2. Identify the first and last serial number associated with these known chronological dates and make a reasonable estimation of how many gun serial numbers should be alloted to each year, factoring in other data.
3. Sanity check the conclusions by looking at various guns to see if their parameters fit the postulation.

Marker Footnotes

Chronological date markers:
. . I. 1828, Jul - 1st advertisement for guns made at Holborn Bars: Reilly was NOT mentioned in an 1825 list of London gun-makers. Reilly was never a Freeman of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers. The first ad in the London newspapers specifically for Reilly made guns so far found is in 1830. However, a July 1828 ad makes it clear that he was selling guns made by him. For this reason 1828 is listed as the start date for Reilly gun manufacture.
. . II. 1835, Late Aug – Move to 316, High Holborn: Per newspaper advertisements in late August Reilly moved to 316 High Holborn. Example: “Joseph Charles Reilly will be removing at the end of this month, to the spacious premises, 316, High Holborn…” (“London Morning Chronicle,” 24 Aug 18). For a year after the move from Holborn Bars, the phrase “Removed from Holborn Bars” appeared in his advertisements.
. . III. 1840, August - Company name changed to just "Reilly in ads.
. . IV. 1847, 27 Mar – J.C. Reilly moved from High Holborn to 502 New Oxford Street on 27 Mar 1847. “The lease of these premises will expire at Lady-day next, and he is RE-MOVING to another Establishment in New Oxford-street, the Elizabethan Buildings. (“Morning Post,” 20 Mar 1847). This is confirmed by a follow-on ad “Premises in Holborn having expired at Lady-day last, he has REMOVED to 502, NEW OXFORD STREET…” (“Morning Advertiser,” 31 Mar 1847)
. . V. 1847, Apr-Dec - “Removed from Holborn” in ads. “Reilly, Gun-maker, New Oxford-street – REMOVED FROM HOLBORN,” (“Illustrated London News,” 03 Apr 1847); By late November 1847 the phrase was no longer used. This is an important item for dating guns using the trade label as a confirmation.
. . VI. 1856, Aug – First Reilly advertisement for a Lefaucheaux-style center-break gun. Reilly began working on a break-action gun in 1855, probably as a result of Lang’s exhibit in Paris. His first advertisements for a Lefaucheaux style break-action gun appeared in August 1856 and he is recognized as one of the pioneers of the genre.
. . VII. 1857, Sep - JC Reilly retires. He announced in newspaper ads, “JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY is retiring in favor of his son Edward.” (“London Daily News, 02 Sep 1857). End of 7000 series SN’s.
. . VIII. 1858, Early Aug - 315 Oxford St. (Oxford Street) opened, almost certainly as a result of surging demand for Reilly breech-loaders. The first ad for 315 appeared in “The Field,” 07 Aug 1858. “REILLY, 502, New Oxford-street; and the Shooting Galleries, No. 315, near the Regent-circus.”
. . IX. 1858, Early Aug – Company name changes to “Reilly & Co, Gun Maker.” Apparently when 315 Oxford Street opened, Reilly changed the name to “Reilly & Co.” Several newspaper ads use this name. Reilly later wrote that he took on some new partners at this time (unknown). The company likely established the new workshop because of skyrocketing demand for Reilly center-break guns as mentioned in “the Field” article in Oct 1858.
. . X. 1859, Mar – Company Name changes to "E.M. Reilly & Co, Gun Makers." This name first appeared in ads in March 1859. (“E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street,” 05 Mar 1859). Although “Reilly & Co.,” continued to be used for awhile in other ads.
. . XI. 1860, Aug – Company Name changes to E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturer (singular)
. . XII. 1860, Dec – SN 11716 - Plaque on .577 Enfield rifle with E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London, on the barrel shows it was presented as a prize Christmas 1860. It was probably serial numbered several weeks before.
. . XIII. 1861, early Apr – Reilly trade labels changed definitively using “Gun Manufacturers” (pl) for the first time confirmed by both advertisements and by the 1861 census. This is important for using trade labels to help date a gun (see separate chart).
. . XIV. 1862, Aug – SN 12532 – Documented Sep ’62 London exposition gun bought by Prince of Wales. This gun was discussed in a Bradshaw guide to the exposition September 1862 and was likely numbered 8 weeks earlier. It has the Prince of Wales feathers on it.
. . XV. 1868, Mid Feb - 2 rue Scribe, Paris opened. First mentioned of rue Scribe was in an advertisement in “The Field,” 09 Feb 1868.
. . XVI. 1871, Oct - SN 17574 - Plaque on a .500 double rifle given as a gift to his brother by Leonard Jerome (American grandfather of Winston Churchill), probably after their return from a "millionaires's uint guided by Buffalo Bill Cody in summer 1871.
. . XVII. 1881, Nov – Oxford Street renumbered: 502 to 16; 315 to 277. This renumbering date is verified by numerous “before and after” advertisments from the period.
. . XVIII. 1885, 01 Aug – rue Scribe, Paris closed. Advertisements in the Bell’s Life in late July 1885 continued to list rue Scribe, Paris. Identical advertisements first week of August 1885 had no Paris address.
. . XIX. 1891, Feb – SN 32760 – Plaque on gun – “presented on 26 Mar 1891”. The gun is a boxlock presented by sons to a father. I was no doubt ordered and serial numbered a couple of months before presentation.
. . XX. 1897, Early May - closure of 16 New Oxford Street. Idential advertisments in “Sporting Gazette” show 16 present on 01 May 97 and no longer there on 08 May 97. Reilly had been at 16 (formerly 502) New Oxford Street for 50 years. However, by 1897 new gun sales had declined to 240. It was economically impossible to keep two workshops open making such a low volume of guns.
. . XXI. 1903, Feb - 277 Oxford St. closes. The last ad for 277 Oxford St. appeared in “The Field” on 14 Feb 1903. An article in the same issue indicated “the Field” editor had shortly before visited Reilly’s shop to inspect an air-gun. Reilly disappeared from print after these advertisements and did not surface again for 14 months. He apparently sold the building and moved on.
. . XXII. 1904, May - 295 Oxford St. opens, The first advertisements for 295 Oxford Str. Appeared in the 21 May 1904 edition of “The Field.” Reilly labels at this time used the old labels with 277 crossed out and 295 stamped above it.
. . XXIII. 1912, 06 Jun - Bankruptcy declared 06 June; vacated 295 Oxford Street. This was announced in the London Gazette on Monday 08 June 1912. 295 shortly after was taken over by a high-class London woman’s tailor.
. . XXIV. 1912, Aug - 13 High Street, Marylebone opened. After the closure of 295 Bert Reilly opened a small gun repair/sales shop in Marylebone as “E.M. Reilly & Co.” The shop was tiny. No guns with this address on ribs have been found; no advertisements for it exist. It was listed in London 1913 post office and telephone directories.
. . XXV. 1918, Jul - 13 High Street, Marylebone closed. E.M. Reilly & Co. was listed in the 1918 post office and telephone directories; The shop was not so listed in 1919.
. . XXV. 1922, 18 Aug - Riggs production. Per newspaper advertisements Charles Riggs bought the Reilly name in August 1922. The first ad appeared in the 18 Aug 1922 edition of the “Essex Newsman.” The name/address on the ribs was "EM Reilly & Co., London." Riggs' had historical connections to BSA - however, some believe his guns were built by Osborn/Midland. The serial numbers became 6 digits apparently beginning around 128000. In addition to 6 digit serial numbers most "Riggs-Reilly's" had "Prince of Wales" stocks.
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Gun SN’s matched to Chronological Dates:
. . . . . -- *1. . . . .88 – Feb â€29 . .- 001 is chosen as the number of Reilly first gun. 1st extant SN'd gun is 88 a pair of .50 cal hexagonal Damascus barreled dueler percussion pistols. Addresses on barrels are "J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London." The owner, a private UK citizen, wrote that his great-great-great grandfather bought them in London in 1829. Date Marker footnote I.
. . . . . -- *2. . . 1024 – Oct â€35 . .- Reilly moved to 316 High Holborn in late Aug ’35 (see X footnote above). The 1st extant SN’d gun with High Holborn address is SN 1024. It is am 8mm pocket pistol hammergun with a steel barrel, marked “Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London.” Reily later made and sold dozens of these small pocket pistols. Date Marker footnote II.
. . . . . -- *3. . . 1292 – Feb â€37 - Last serial numbered Reilly-made hand-gun. It is a 120 bore, steel barrel, percussion miniature pocket pistol marked “Reilly, London.” No other serial numbered Reilly nand-guns have been found though he sold hundreds of them over the next 75 years.
. . . . . -- *4. . . 7021 – Jan â€46 – In 1846 JC Reilly appears to have split his numbering systems. He kept a series starting at SN 7000 for himself, while the main-line serial numbers continued, possibly overseen by now 30 year old EM. 7021 is the 1st extant JC Reilly gun in the new JC Reilly 7000 series. It is a 20bore single barrel muzzle loadiing percussion shotgun, a “boy’s gun.” It has the 316 High Holborn address on the barrel. Date Marker footnote III & IV.
. . . . . . . . . . -- *4a. . 7023 – Jan â€46 – As confirmation of 7021, 7023 is an 11 bore, SxS percussion shotgun with J.C. Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London, on the rib
. . . . . --*5. . . 3329 – Jan â€47 – Upon the move from High Holborn to 502 New Oxford Street the mainline Reilly serial numbers were jumped up 5,000 numbers from about 3350 to 8350 (see footnote III above). The last extant main-line SN’d gun at High Holborn is 3329, a 10 ga/.58 cal SxS percussion shotgun with Joseph Charles Reilly, 316, High Holburn, London.on the rib.
. . . . . -- *6. . . 8378 – May â€47 – Once installed at 502 New Oxford Street (27 Mar 1847, date marker III above) the mainline Reilly serial numbers were jumped up 5000 numbers from 3350 to 8350. 8378 is 1st extant mainline SN’d gun with New Oxford St. address; It is a 10 bore SxS perussion Shotgun with J.C. Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street,London, on the rib. "Removed from Holborn" is on the trade lable. Date marker footnote IV.
. . . . . . . . . . --*6a. . 8463 – Nov â€47 – As confirmation of the above, SN 8463 labeled in late Nov 1847) is a 390 cal SxS percussion 5 groove rifle with “Reilly, New Oxford Street, London;” on the rib. Like 8378, 8463 has a trade label with "J.C. Reilly, removed from Holborn." Date marker footnote IV.
. . . . . -- *7. . . 7201 – Sep â€47 – The first JC 7000 series with New Oxford St. address is 7201. It is a .577 cal. Single barrel percussion rifle. The trade lable includes "J.C. Reilly, removed from Holborn."
. . . . . -- *8. . 10054 – Sep â€56 - This is the first SN’d extant Reilly center-break gun made on the Lefaucheaux principle. It is a 15 bore, SxS pin-fire, single bite, forward U-L, break-action gun with Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London. On the rib. See Date Marker footnote VI) (Note: This is possibly the oldest extant UK-made center-break gun.). Date Marker footnote VI.
. . . . . -- *9. . . 8186 – Aug â€57 – Last JC 7000 series extant gun. It is a .650 ca. Minie ball, single-barrel percussion rifle with “Reilly, New Oxford Street, London.” On the rib. It is alo marked “Veni, Vidi, Vici” (I came, I saw, I conquered), Ceasar’s quote which JC Reilly began to engrave on his 7000 series guns in 1855. Date Marker footnote VII.
. . . . . -- *10. .10782 – Jul â€58 - - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. .(not “Reilly & Co.”): 577 cal; Rifle; single barrel, breech loader, hammer gun.31" brls. Frederic Prince patent. Date Marker footnote VIII and IX.
. . . . . . . . . . -- *10a. 10811 – Oct â€58 - 1st extant SN gun with "Reilly & Co." on rib. Also first Reilly SN’d gun with the Oxford Steet adress. The gun is a .25 bore, single barrel Prince Patent breech-loader hammer gun. See Date Marker footnote VIII and IX.
. . . . . -- *11. .11227 – Sep â€59 - 1st gun with “E.M. Reilly & Co” on the rib. It is a .577 cal. Enfield 3-band rifle. Date Marker footnote X.
. . . . . -- *12. .11716 – Dec ’60 - Plaque on rifle - presented as a prize Christmas 1860; It is a .577 Enfield rifle. muzzle loader, volunteer rifle with E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; on the barrel. It likely was number 3-4 week before presentation. Date Marker footnote XI.
. . . . . -- *13. .12532 – Aug â€62 – Documented Sep ’62 London exposition gun bought by Prince of Wales. It is a 12 bore SxS, percussion shotgun guilded/gold washed and commented on in the 16 Sep 1862 Bradshaw guide to the fair. The Prince of Wales feather emblem is on the gun. Date Marker footnote XII.
. . . . . -- *14. .13326 – May ’64 – In early Marc ’64 Reilly announced that he had manufacturing rights to the Green Bros. .577 cal. single barrel patent breech loaders in the London press. Per newspaper advertisements he made a number of these guns in May ’64 for the then upcoming trials for a UK interim breech-loader (ultimately won by Snider). 13326 is Pat use #16 with “E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London” on the barrel, certainly made in May 1864.
. . . . . . . . . . -- *14a. 13333 – May ’64 – Green Bros Pat use #23 with “E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London;” on the rib. The guns have consequative Reilly SN’s and Green Bros. pat use numbers.
. . . . . -- *15. .14983 - Mar â€68 – 1st gun with rue Scribe, Paris address; It is an 8 bore SxS, C-F, U-L hammer gun shotgun with “E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & 2, rue Scribe, Paris” on the rib. The hammers are unusual. Date Marker footnote XIII.
. . . . . -- *16. .17574 - Oct â€71 – Rifle presented as a gift with an 1871 plaque, probably fall â€71. Date Marker footnote XIV
. . . . . -- *17. .23536 – Nov â€81 - 1st use of renumbered addresses 277, 16 on a gun. This is a 12 ga SxS BLNE shotgun with steel parrels (A&D patent use#3814 with “E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London” on the rib. Date Marker footnote XV.
. . . . . -- *18. .27358 – Jul â€85 – Last extant Reilly with rue Scribe on the rib. 12 bore SXS side-lock, top-lever, extractor shoggu with “E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris” 0n the rib. It has Perkes Pat action use#603 and the Scott Gas Check Pat use#1614. Date Marker footnote XVI
. . . . . -- *19. .32760 – Feb â€91 – Plaque on gun – “presented on 26 Mar 1891” as a birthday present to a father from his sons. It is a 12 bore SxS top-lever, BLE rifle and was probably ordered six weeks prior to presentation. Date Marker footnote XVII.
. . . . . -- *20. .34723 – Apr ’97 – Last extant Reilly with 16 New Oxford Street address. 12 ga top-lever, hammer-gun SxS shotgun with “E.M Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London.” On the rib. See Date Marker footnote XVIII.
. . . . . -- *21. .35386 – Jan ’03 – Believed to be the last extant SN’d gun numbered at 277 Oxford St (address not mentioned in ad). .410 SxS Shotgun. Top lever, Hammer gun. Date Marker footnote XIX
. . . . . -- *22. .35394 – May â€04 - First SN from 295 Oxford St. .297/.250 Single barrel rook rifle; central hammer, S-L, ejector. 26" brls. with “E.M. Reilly & Co. 295, Oxford Street, London” on the barrel. Date Marker footnote XX.
. . . . . -- *23. .35678 – Dec â€11 - Last extant Reilly, a 12 bore SxS top-lever boxlock shotgun (address unknown). Date Marker footnote XXI
. . . . . -- *24. 128466 – Sep 1922 - 1st known extant Riggs marked SN’d “Reilly,” a 12 bore SxS boxlock shotgun with “E.M. Reilly & Co., London,” on the rib. Dae Marker footnote XXIV.
. . . . . -- *25. 150570 – 1950? - Lastt known extant Riggs marked SN’d “Reilly.” It is a 12 gauge BLNE SxS shotgun with “E.M. Reilly & Co., London,” on the rib.
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Verification Checks: - Checking individual guns to see if they match the dating hypothesis:
. . . . . **1. .7201 – Sep â€47 – The first JC 7000 series with New Oxford St. address is 7201. It is a .577 cal. Single barrel percussion rifle. The trade lable includes "J.C. Reilly, removed from Holborn."
. . . . . **2. – 1856 production numbers : After his triumph at Paris in 1855 - "all guns were sold and many orders booked." The increase in production by 100 guns for 1856 reflects this.
. . . . . **3. 10655 – Mar ’58 - Early 1858 Reilly pinfire on the Lefaucheux principle numbered shortly before the April “the Field” trials; No one in UK could have made that gun for Reilly other than Lang or possibly Blanch; "The Field" mentioned that fall that Reilly along with Blanch and Lang were "overdone with orders" for breech loaders, likely the reason that in Aug 1858 he opened "the Manufactory" at "Arsenal House," 315 Oxford Street - to satisfy this demand.
. . . . . **4. 10738 – Jun â€58 - Reilly began making under license Prince Patent breech loaders soon after the Patent was taken out in 1855. Reilly may have been behind a March 1858 letter signed by 12 London gunmakers urging Arsenal to reconsider the Prince. 10738 was serial numbered in summer 1858 - 1st extant Prince Patent gun.
. . . . . **5. 14115 – Mar â€68 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Shotgun SxS; center-fire, U-L, non-rebounding hammer gun; wedgefast forearm; First extant center-break, center-fire shotgun. (In 1866 two patents were issued for centerfire primer shells for shotguns making C-F shotguns practical).
. . . . . **6. 20459 – Jul â€76 – In summer 1875 UK proofmarks changed to include “not for ball” for a choked shotgun, as a result of Greener’s Spring ’75 demonstration of the concept. Reilly first adversed a choked shotgun in May ’75. The first confirmed by photos extant Reilly shotgun with the new markings is 20459, a 16 ga. Shotgun SxS. S-L, hammer gun, marked “E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris” on the rib.
. . . . . **7. 20623 – Dec ’76 - Purdey patent 1104 use #4928, the last Reilly with a Pat 1104 use #. The Purdey patent expired 01 May 1877. (There are later guns with what appears to be the Purdey double-bite system but the Patent use numbers is not mentioned or displayed in photographs)
. . . . . **8. 21839 – Dec â€78 – Last Reilly with Scott spindle pat 2752, use# 8699; pat expired 25 Oct â€79. This gun from late Dec '78-early Jan '79 does not have the Purdey Patent 1104 use number.
. . . . . **9. 22482 – Jan â€80 - 1st extant Reilly box-lock; Reilly advertised boxlocks in May 1875 but did not really push the genre until 1880. Really did write a blurb on his company in 1885 claiming that beginning in 1880 he strongly promoted boxlocks.
. . . . . **10. 23536 – Nov â€81 - The address numbers for Oxford Street were rationalized in November 1881 - before that time there were 7 houses on Oxford Street numbered "315." 502 New Oxford Street became "16" - "315" became "277." 23536 according to the chart would have been numbered in Nov '81.
. . . . . **11. 23574 – Dec â€81 - For the 1882 season Hurlingham rules weight limit for pigeon guns was fixed at 8 lbs. This pigeon gun built in late 1881 for the new upcoming season weighs 8 lbs.
. . . . . **12. 23574 – Dec â€81 - 1st Reilly gun with a Whitworth Steel barrels. Reilly began to advertise Whitworth barrels in early Jan 1882.
. . . . . **13. 1882 production numbers : In January 1882 Reilly noted in an advertisement that he was selling ready-made guns. At the same time he began for the first time to strongly promote boxlocks patented in 1875 per an article in the UK press. Reilly production jumped from an afterage of 650 a year (for the previous 15 years) to over 1000 a year with no expansion of manufacuring faciities. This likely indicated a change in his business model and his using boxlocks bought in the white from Birmingham and finished in London, as did the entire London trade.
. . . . . **14. 24534 – Nov â€82 - For the 1883 season Hurlingham rules weight limit for pigeon guns was changed to 7 lbs 8 oz. This pigeon gun built in late 1882 for the new rules weighs 7 lbs 8 oz.
. . . . . **15. 35186 - Jun ’00 - Dated on the chart as 1900; iThis gun has a post-1898 trade label and London 1896-1904 proof marks
. . . . . **16. 35554 – Dec 1907 - Reilly double rifle chambered for .500/.465 with 295 Oxford St. address on the barrels. The chart dates it as late 1907. This cartridge was introduced by Holland & Holland in spring 1907.
. . . . . **17. 35614 – 1911 - Reilly SxS shotgun built by G&S Holloway with H8113 SN on barrel. The Holloway SN is documented as 1911. Reilly apparently sold off most of his guns in late 1911 due to catastrophic losses at 40% mark-down, which explains the high number of guns sold in 1911. (This gun is so different in styling from other Reilly’s that there may be a questions about its authenticity.)
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

##1 - ##6 - London proofmarks (Diggory Hadoke's chart)
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Patents
These patent numbers have been found on Reilly's and can be used to help date them - caution however; many guns were modified and updated so presence of a patent by itself does not definitively establish a manufacture date:

1855: Bore size stamp required by law (Note: Reilly may have been one of the few gun makers in London, Greener and Manton being two others, who routinely put bore size stamps on his guns before the regulation)
1858, 24 Sep - Westley Richards 2149, dolls head, top bolted, top lever
1859, 07 Sep - Jones patent 2020 - underlever (aka double-grip or screw-grip)(lapsed 1862, 19 Sep)
1860, May - J.D. Dougall "Lockfast" action patent 1128
1860, 15 Nov - Henry patent 2802 - 7 groove shallow rifling. Extended for 4 years on 15 November 1874.
1861 - Daw patent 203 - centerfire from a Pottet's French patent, broken by Eley in 1865 - (introduction of center-fire concept)
1862 - Needham patent 1544, rotating single-bolt snap-action side-lever
1863, 01 May - J. Purdey patent no. 1104 - "double bite" under action bolt (see below re Scott Spindle)
J.Purdey patent no. 424 - retractable firing pins.
1863, 10 Sep - Greener patent 2231 - pinfire snap underlever - see 1873
Needham side-lever
1865 - Eley breaks Pottet’s French patent on centerfire shells.
1865, 25 Oct - Scott patent 2752 - spindle. (top lever)(purdey-scott incest for 14 years)
1865 - Needham patent xxxx - safety, firing pins and hammers to half cock
1865 - Whitworth "fluid compressed steel" patent
1866 - Webley patent 3022 - snap action underlever
1866 - Pape patent xxxxx - choke tubes
1866 - Hodges patent xxxx - action
1866, March - Center-fire primer cap shotgun shell design by American Berdan
1866, Oct 13 - Center-fire primer cap shotgun shell design by Edward Mounier Boxer.
1867, 05 Nov - Pape patent 70463 - wing thumb lever w/single bite
1867, 09 Feb - Stanton patent 367 - rebounding hammers
1868, 20 Jan - Parson's Patent 201 - chopper lump (Damascus) barrels
1869, 30 Dec - Stanton patent 3774 - rebounding hammer modification
1870 - Lang patent xxxxx- top lever sliding bolt action
1870 - Thomas Patent top lever "double grip" bolting system
1871 - T. Murcott hammerless system
1872, 12 Feb: H Walker patent 455- top-lever barrel bolting and safety for drop-down actions
1872 - Anson patent 3791 - fore-end fasteners
1873 - Deeley & Edge patent 1422 - fore-end fastener
1873, 05 Apr - WM Scott patent 1268 - retractable firing pins
1873 - Scott patent 615 - "key" fore-end fastener
1873 - Greener cross-bolt treble wedge fast locking system
1874 - Needham patent xxxx - separate barrel ejector system (Needham later bought by Greener)
1874, 12 Jun - WM Scott - “Quadruple Grip” action
1874, 04 Dec - Henry rifling patent extended for 4 years to 29 Nov 1978.
1875, 11 May - Anson & Deeley patent 1152 and/or 1756 - Boxlock hammerless action.
1875, 25 May - WM Scott patent 1902 - Triplex top lever grip.

1875 - "Not for ball" added to proof marks based on the Greener choke boring invention. NOTE: If a shotgun were not choked after 1875, it would not have the “Not for Ball” markings - many, possibly most shotguns were NOT choked until the 1880’s.
1875, 15 Sep - Scott patent 3223 - crystal cocking indicator (back action)
1875, 15 May - Scott patent 1902 - top extension
1876 - Thomas Woodword patent 651 - hammerless push-forward under-lever snap action.
1876 - Anson's patent No.4513. Safety aka "Dickie Bird Safety."
1876 - Scott patent 615 - fore-end lever catch
1878, 23 Feb - W.C. Scott & sons patent 761 - aka Triplex Action, coil spring back action hammerless lock; incorporates the Crystal Cocking Indicator.
1878 - Mills patent 4980 - 3rd bite
1878 - Perks cocking rod patent 1968 - over-center ejector patent (better known as Southgate or Holland system)
1879 - Ellis & Scott action, patent No 2816
1879 - Needham & Hinton patent 706 - intercepting sears on back action (bought by Scott)
1879 - Whitworth fluid compressed steel patent extended for 5 years
1880, 16 Nov - Beesley patent 31 - Sidelock hammerless action marketed by Purdey
1882, 8 Feb - Scott patent 617 - gas check
1882 - Pat 4089 - Anson intercepter sear patent (see Scott)
1883, 11 Apr - Anson & Deeley patent, Boxlock hammerless improvement
1884, 3 Nov - Deeley patent 14526 - ejector
1886, 13 Dec - Deeley patent 4289 - ejector system
1886 - Perkes patent 10679 - ejector

1887 - "Not for Ball" dropped; "Choke" added to London proof mark
1889 - Southgate patent 12314 - Beesley ejector London and intercepter sear (see Perkes)
1889 - A&D "boxlock" patent extended?
1893 - Southgate patent 8239 - ejector trip (Holland & Holland)(see Perkes)

1896 - "Nitro Proof" and "1 1/4 oz Max" added to London proof mark
1904 - "NP" topped by arm and sword symbol - (definitive nitro proof) added to London proof mark


--------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Argo44
Patent use numbers often make you feel like you fell down Alice's rabbit hole. Don't go there!! Don't try to make sense of them. Unless they make sense.....

I've got a letter on a Williams and Powell (Liverpool). The action, SN and AD patent number date to the 1880s, but the gun was not completed and delivered until the 1920s.
There is a recent YouTube video on TGS outdoors, “The Langstone Wildfowler” a custom William Evans box lock. Well worth watching.

It was ordered and built about 40 years ago.

The customer wanted 3” chambers so a long table action was indicated.

John Resteghini , then at William Evans, built it using an action he had on hand.

The label on the action showed that it had been supplied for ÂŁ4 in 1904.
A Reilly was sold at Southams Auctions on 10th September, 2015. It was a percussion, sporting rifle, 24" half-stocked, octagonal barrel, inscribed E M Reilly, London. leaf sights, platinum breech plug, brass mounted wooden ramrod, scroll engraved hammer,tang and lock. scroll engraved furniture, with pineapple finial, and figured stock. Serial No. 10621.
Over the last 45 years, I have come across many Reillys at auctions, and I still have over a 1,000 auction catalogues, going back to 1970. Reading through them could take a long, long time (something at my age is in short supply) but I will endeavour to pass on any that I find. I am NOT a tech wizard, so scanning and copying them might prove beyond my meagre talents, but I will try!
Back in October, 2020, I sold, at Ryedale Auctions, a number of my pinfire and hammer guns, including a Reilly 14g. U/Lever opening, 28.5 " damascus barrels. Serial No. 133081. It sold for the princely sum of ÂŁ280. It was a pinfire to centre fire conversion.

Hope this is of interest. Dave
Thank you Mr. Ivanhoe. I happened to already have 10621 (1858) which sold at Southam's

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...lot-29b015bb-a4ec-437c-ab87-a4f700ac96eb
.376 percussion sporting rifle by E M Reilly, 24 ins octagonal half stocked barrel inscribed E M Reilly, London, leaf sights, platinum breech plug, brass mounted wooden ramrod, scroll engraved hammer, tang and lock, scroll engraved furniture with pineapple finial, figured stock, no.10621
By Southams Auctioneers & Valuers
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
13308

I'm going to assume that the converted pin-fire is SN 13308 (1864) and that the "1" is superfluous. A six digit serial number would put it post 1922 and into the Riggs era. If you don't mind, I'll write up 13308 for the extant gun chronology. And should you run across any Reilly's in those old catalogs, I would like to record them all. No gun in the last couple of years has forced me to change the chronology but you never know. There's always something new.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Col. Jacob's rifle - explosive shells

For instance from 1856 to 1865 Reilly advertised Col. Jacob's SxS rifle with an iron tipped explosive bullet that allegedly could reach out 2,000 yards. Would love to see one; (and note the above comments on Reilly's patent for explosive shells and Reilly similarly making iron tipped explosive shells for Sir Samuel Baker from as early as 1854):
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Nuthall patent rifling

And in 1859 Major Nuthall came up with a patent for rifling (Patent 1167, 10 May 1859) for which Reilly had manufacturing rights: Don't even know what this patent was all about.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Here is the version made by Turner"
THE SECOND BY THOMAS TURNER, FISHER ST., BIRMINGHAM, CIRCA 1860 - with 31 ½ in. (80 cm.) barrel sighted to 1000 yards, marked 'MAJOR NUTHALL'S PATENT' and with rounded groove rifling (Patent 1167, 10 May 1859), Birmingham proof marks
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

(Of course since Reilly was "only a retailer," per late 20th century kibitzers, all this manufacturing stuff couldn't have taken place and those rubes from the 19th century were obviously victims of a "hoax.") smile smile

Thanks again
Gene Williams
Hi Gary, Just browsing through an old Weller & Dufty catalogue, dated 12th December 1966.
Came across this item:

"A high quality double barrelled underlever .450 blackpowder rifle, by E>M> Reilly& Co. Serial No.21300. Damascus barrels, with matted rib, bolted back action locks beautifully engraved with fine scrolls, chequered fore-end, and pistol grip, nicely figured stock with cheekpiece, sling eyes, hammers repaired, very good condition and working order, with some original finish. Barrels 26".
Do you have any knowledge of it? I have hundreds oif these old catalogues, and I aim to try to go through a few each day. I will list any Reilys I find, plus any English pinfires. Dave
Ivanhoe, I do not have 21300 which would date per the chart to summer 1878. (An easy check on what guns are known is to look at the above list). That is an excellent find and Thank you. Any others you turn up would be highly welcomed. Surely at that time period there were scores of these old guns still around.

Gene Williams

If you run across any J.C. Reilly muzzle-loaders with a SN in the 5000"s, that might help the above hypothesis that There may have been a 5000 numbering series in the early 1840's.
===================================================================
Reilly extant matched Paris


On another line we discussed putting missing matched pairs together. For the record here are Reilly extant guns which are matched pairs or which have a "1." "2." or "3" and are missing their mates (details on these guns are above in the extant gun charts - if more information is needed, I have photos and advertisements for them):

1) Reilly guns which have a "1" or "2" or "3" but which are missing their pairs/trio,
18775 - (#3) - spring 1874
21339 - (#2) - May 1878
30363 - (#1) - early 1889
30xxx - (#2) - early 1889 (quite possibly the mate to 30363) (a gun in Norway)
33241 - (#2) - Dec 1893
33454 - (#2) - mid 1894
33508 - (#1) - May 1894
33713 - (#1) - Dec 1894
33858 - (#1) - spring 1895
33890 - (#2) - spring 1895
33916 - (#2) - summer 1895
35423 - (#2) - summer 1904
. 1833 - (#2) - post 1907 (outlier SN)

and
2) Extant Reilly pairs which have been located, put together or which are still together today:
27853, 27854 - early 1886 (#1 is Argo44's gun)
30375, 30376 - early 1889
30394, 30395 - spring 1889
33286, 33287 - early 1894
33747, 33748 - early 1895
34221, 34222 - early 1896
35422, 35423 - summer 1904
35673, 35674 - 1911
Hi Gene, I know you have this gun S/N. 33673 in your database, but not sure if you knew it was sold at Southams, on 14th September, 2017? It had a very good colour photograph, and was cased. Regards Dave
Hi Gene, Just found this in a Weller & Dufty catalog dated 21st March 1972, sadly no Serial Number......

"A rare & high quality 52 bore 6 shot single action percussion revolver rifle with reciprocating gas seal cylinders. Octagonal barrel, double cross wedges to cylinder axis pin. Fitted with dovetail foresight and 2 folding leaf rearsights. The top flat engraved " REILLY'S IMPROVED. NEW OXFORD STRET LONDON" London proved. Longspur hammer, with sliding safety behind. The lower frame strap fitted with horn handle hold. Nicely scroll engraved frame, and walnut stock with chequered pistol grip. Dull steel. some wear and light pitting, one barrel wedge missing, and action slightly at fault. Generally very good. Barrel 26". ILLUSTRATED".

I am coming across Reilly guns in my search for English pinfires for Steve Nash, and will continue on this path while ever you need info. Should you want the relevant old catalog as a source of information, I would be happy to post to you. No charge for the catalog, just cover the postage.

There will obviously be ones I miss, as I am not looking at centre fire guns, unless they are hammer guns.


Regards Dave
good evening Dave. Per the above, I rapidly concluded that Reilly quit serial numbering pistols circa 1837. He afterwards put his name on and engraved thousands of pistols and later revolvers - duelers, derringers, Howdah's, revolvers, etc. Unfortunately, these cannot be used to date Reilly guns...except for extant labels left in their cases which helped build and date a huge database of Reilly trade labels. Thus, I would not bother looking at pistols unless they have a pre-1200 Serial Number and a J.C. Reilly address.

For any gun in the above list, I most likely have the original auction house ad (in some case several auction houses) and pictures going back to about 2002 when the internet became ubiquitous. You are going the extra mile for this research and it's really really appreciated...I'd love to be there with you...just trying to save you some labor. In any case, Thanks so much again. History is created by small steps. Gene
Hi Gene, thanks for letting me know about pistols...will save me some time. I have found out over the years that often small country auction houses have failed to note serial numbers, as percussion and pinfires were often just regarded as wall hangers. On quite a few of the later centrefires, the serial number, and / or, address on rib, have been worn as to become illegible. However, I will endeavour still to send info on them in the hope that it proves useful. I,m still trying to figure out how to scan old catalog pages, and photographs, my printer says it Scans, yet I cannot get it to do so! I,m hoping my techie friend will be able to fix that for me. In the meantime, I shall continue hitting the keyboard with one finger! :-)
Regards

Dave
Hi Gene, After a an hours trawl through some old Southams catalogs, dating back to the mid-nineties, I found one or two bits of info, which I shall record here. It,s more than possible that you have these already, but if I start to look through the database everytime I find something, that would slow me down a little. Some sadly will not have a visible number, but I will post every word from the catalog, in case it helps. So here goes:


D/B/N/Ej. 16b anson & Deeley patent action. No visible Serial Number Southams 21st September 1995.
.300 bore Rook Rifle by Reilly. No visible number. Southams 21st March 1996 ÂŁ140
D/B/N/Ej. E.M. Reilly S/No. 140717 Southams 21st March 2002.12b rolled turnover machine patented by E M reilly. Southams 15th March 2001
12b B/L/Ej. By E M Reilly. 29" barrels, scroll engraved action S/No. 128466 Southams 21st September 2000.1
12b B/L/Ej. By Reilly & Co. S/No. 139614 Southams 19th June 1997.
12b S/L/Ej. by E M Reilly. 28.5" French barrels. SS/No. 33455. Southams 20th March 1997.


I shall continue the search tomorrow. Regards Dave
Hi Gene, forgot to include this, which I came across in a very old catalog from May 1972.

"A scarce, and very good quality, half stocked 26 bore Prince's Patent breech loading percussion capping sporting rifle by Reilly of Oxford Street. Round barrel, with sling swivel, and bayonet lug and tangent rearsight, signed on top; scroll foliage engraved back action lock with graceful hammers; brass guard, with catch for barrel handle, the tang engraved with the serial No. 10811 brass barrel sleeve, forend guide and buttplate;walnut stock with chequered wrist. The barrel, which locks onto a breech spigot, is partially rotated with the handle, and then slid forwards for loading. Dull steel, minor wear and repaired crack in forened. Condition Very Good. Barrel 30". Lot no. 668" Weller & Dufty May 1972. Cataloging by Doug Nye. There is a black and white photo illustration which I will try to scan and post....but don,t hold your breath for this, for some reason, my printer/scanner has decided to go on strike!

Regards dave
Evening (Morning) Dave. Here are a few comments that I hope will be helpful:

-- If a gun has no Serial Number, Reilly didn't build it. This is especially true of rook-rifles but also of some big-bore fowlers. So don't pay attention to these. (The SN will normally be found behind the trigger guard tang - but also on the barrels, on the action flats/water table, and on the forearm. The problem with auction houses is they don't know, don't care, or don't look).

-- Reilly made guns have a maximum serial number of about 36,000 (last extant Reilly is SN 35678.

-- If a "Reilly" has a six digit serial number, it was made in Birmingham after 1922 on behalf of Sports retailer Charles Riggs. He bought the Reilly name and began to market Birmingham guns with "E.M. Reilly & Co., London" in August 1922. These are journeyman guns and are probably why late 20th century commentators called Reilly a "retailer." No need to spend time on these. However, if 128466 is accurate, this is the earliest Riggs gun I have on my records - I will have to change the history a bit. Thanks.

-- 33544 is new and is being added to the above list.

-- Re the Prince patent, SN 10811, I have that gun. It is the earliest extant gun with only Reilly "Oxford Street" on its barrel - i.e. the first identifiable gun made at 315 Oxford Street (August 1858). (Note: Reilly SN 10783 is a Prince Patent, but has "New Oxford Street" on its barrel i.e. made at 502 New Oxford Street. Since Reilly opened 315 Oxford Street in early August 1858, these two Prince Patent guns can pretty well be dated to July (10783) and August (10811) 1858. They, thus, are "sanity checks" for the accuracy of the date chart..

-- The Reilly shell crimper was patented in 1861....there are a number of examples on the market. Reilly marketed about every conceivable accroutements for guns from bandoleers to shell boxes, to pouches, to....you name it.

Thanks as usual for all the help! Gene

Here is the edited paragraph on Riggs dealing with his SN'd guns" thanks to your readings: - hard work, dedication, team contributions and research - this is how history is made and changed word by word.

---------------------------
"Riggs-Reilly guns usually have "E.M. Reilly & Co., London" on the ribs; Sometimes "E.M. Reilly & Co., Ltd." As a further identifier, a lot of the Rigg's-Reilly's have "Prince of Wales" half pistol grip stocks (something the original Reilly firm almost never made.) Riggs'-Reilly named guns have six-digit serial numbers and appear to begin at around 128000. (The earliest Riggs serial number so far identified is 128466). A Riggs "Reilly" with a serial number in the 150000's is known to exist."
Hi Gene, thanks for that info. Where the lack of a serial number applies to a rook rifle, or big bore shotgun, I,ll leave them out. Experience has taught me, however, that early pinfires and hammer shotguns often lack a "discernible" serial number due to wear and tear over the years. It,s very frustrating, Same applies to name on the rib. Often, this is lost due to re-browning, or blueing, or just over-enthusiastic cleaning, with the wrong materials!
Back to the drawing board! I have found some more examples, in a small number of catalogs from Evans & Partridge, Hampshire. These are late 90,s to 2002, so you again may have them listed. I shall then plough through a number of small regional auction catalogs, when they are exhausted, it,s back to the early 70,s, with Weller & Dufty catalogs.

Regards

dave
Hi Gene, Here we go again....

12b B/L/N/Ej. E.M.Reilly & Co. Serial No.28502 Nitro Re-proof. 30" Damascus barrels. 2.5" chambers. Well figured stock. Scroll engraved. Evans & Partridge 29/10/2004
16b B/L/N/Ej. E.M.Reilly & Co. Serial No. 35493. 2.5" chambers. 28" barrels. Scroll engraved. Evans & Partridge 26/3/2002
12b B/L/Ej. E.M.Reilly & Co. Serial No. 33256. 2.5" chambers. 27" Sleeved barrels. Evans & Partridge 25/33/1997.
12b Hammer Gun. E.M.Reilly & Co. Serial No. 22525. 30" browned Damascus barrels. Cross bolted forend. U/Lever opening. Proof Exempt.Cert Evans & Part. 27/3/2001
Thanks. Dave. 22525 (1880), 28502 (1886) and 33256 (1893) are all new guns and have been added to the extant gun list above. 35493 (1905) is one of Terry Buffum's guns that he sold off at Amoskeog auction in 2016, so I had that one. This is a great help.
Hi Gene, here,s some more info.................This time I will repeat the complete lot description.


"A very high quality 10 bore x 3.5" nitro proved double barrelled underlever hammer shotgun by E.M.Reilly & Co. London S/No. 33354 browned curly damascus patterned barrels with elevated rib, dolls head extension and clipped fences. Bar locks with rebounding hammers the locks, action body and furniture beautifully engraved with fine scrolling foliage; straight grip walnut stocklengthened and fitted with a recoil buttpad. The guard and lever re-blacked, Fine and crisp. with most finish in it,s green baize lined and partioned makers canvas covered case. All in fine order. Barrels 34".
David, 33354 is a new entry and is added above. In a separate line we were discussing the sale of a Reilly 4 bore that sort of included data from a number of 19th century big bore fowlers. The info on the 10 bore chambers and barrel length add to what we know about these guns. I think I'll create a separate database to distill their characteristics so they can be better understood. (I'm still not sure I understand the paper cartridge 4 bore that used 6 bore barrels). Thanks as usual.
12b D/B B/L/Ne by E.M. Reilly. S/No.131065 (Riggs era?). 30" barrels, with 2.5" chambers.. Pistol grip stock. Nitro Proof. Jardine Auctioneers 1/04/1995.
10b. Hammer rifle. "A scarce and high quality 10b black powder double barrelled under lever hammer rifle by E.M. Reilly & Co. London. Serial No. 35012. Heavy 28" barrels with elevated top rib, dolls head extension, and folding leaf sight. back action locks with rebounding hammers, the locks, action body and furniture very nicely engraved with panels of scroilling foliage . Walnut pistol grip stock with cheekpiece. Barrels and guard well blacked, and now excellent. In its makers leather case. Case damaged. Weller & Dufty 07/11/1972.
12 b Double barrelled hammer shotgun by E.M. Reilly & Co. London. Serial No. 18775 (formerly no.3 gun of a trio). action body very nicely engraved with scrolling foliage, the fences with scroll chiselling, engraved bar locks with rebounding hammers and walnut straight gip stock. Oval gold escuytcheon engraved with a crest believed to be Viscount Hill of Hawkstone. One hammer missing. excellent and crisp, and though failed proof, well worth sleeving.

12b Percussion sporting rifle circa 1850 by E.M. Reilly & Co. Oxford Street, London. Very good quality. Half-stocked, Octagonal barrel, 33", with matted top flat, detented lock with Dolphin hammer retained by a bun nut, and nicely scroll engraved lockplate and furniture. Rear sight and ramrod, and forend tip missing. Generally very good and well worth restoring.
Thanks as usual Dave. Here are a few comments:

-- 131065 will indeed be Riggs production. Use of a half pistol grip on the stock of a shotgun is also a give-away.
-- 35012 is new and has been recorded. Wish the weight of the gun had been mentioned in the ad.
-- 18775 is spring 1874. It should have both an Oxford Street address and the rue Scribe, Paris address on the rib.
-- The percussion rifle should be interesting. Use of E.M. Reilly & Co., puts it after October 1859 when the name became "E.M. Reilly & Co." Use of "Oxford Street" means it was made at 315 Oxford Street, which opened Aug 1858. Wish it had a serial number.
Hi Gene, There are 7 Reilly,s in Holts current catalogue this week. One is a J C Reilly, London, percussion. Regards Dave
Thanks David. I had those guns. I commented on SN 5580, J.C. Reilly 316 High Holborn, muzzle loader on p. 56 above. It resembles my 16 bore SN 5512...indicating there may be an 1840's 5500 JC series of guns. More muzzle loaders needed.
Hi Gene, here is another not in the database? "Fine E.M. Reilly & Co. Oxford St. London. 12g D/B Ej ? Serial No. 25634. Original 30" Brown Damascus barrels (Nitro Proof) Bored Imp. Cylinder & Full. Jones Patent underlever opener, with rebounding locks. Round bodied back action, engraved E.M.Reilly & Co. 14" Figured Walnut stock, with steel butt plate. Snap on forened, with bone inlaid tip. *This gun has been fully refurbished to a very high standard! Nock Deighton Auctions 9/10 1996. Hammergun ??
Here,s another not in the database, and a big bore!


The forend, stock and action (barrels available) of an E.M.Reilly & Co. London 8 Bore, double barrelled hammer wildfowling gun, Serial No. 21965. Back action locks with rebounding hammers, engraved with panels of scrolling foliage. straight grip stock. Weller & Dufty 03/10/1972
Excellent research sir....you have a stock of catalogs which should be in a research library somewhere. You may have the only remaining examples of some of them!! They are truly gun history.
25634 - 1883. I could have had rue Scribe, Paris on its rib but didn't. For some reason half the 1883 extant Reilly's omitted Paris,
21965 - 1879. Would like to have the address on the ribs (since the barrels were available). It also could have had "Paris." Wonder what the weight and dimensions of the gun were. It had a straight stock; some Reilly big bore wildfowlers had pistol grips.
Gene it,s 21965. a typo? Some of these catalogs have not been thumbed through for the last 30 years.....when I see some of the guns and equipment that was sold then, for a pittance of todays money, I could weep! The Weller catalogs are 2 day affairs, with over 1,000 lots, and took place every 5 weeks! A vast amount of material, from every gunmaker in the nation! And from gunmakers etc abroad! There are even rare American guns occasionally!. They had a great cataloger in Doug Nye, who probably knew more about guns than any 3 of the London auction house "experts". Wellers proud boast was that they were not just catalogs, but reference books!


P.S. If you would like to see one, send me an address, I,ll post you one. Regards Dave
Typo....got the right number in the extant gun list. Thanks.
Hi Gene, here,s a oddball, the serial number is clearly wrong, I wonder if it was a number put there by the Midland Gun Co when they re-barrelled?

12b D/B shotgun, Nitro proved, Top Lever Anson & deeley boxlock hammerless by E.M. Reilly & Co. Barrels by Midland Gun Co. Serial No. 7478 with fine scroll engraved action and straight hand stock with snap on forend. Barrels and furniture re-blacked, stock refinished, bores heavily pitted. Barrels 30"
Hi Gene,
After trawling through the 1973 catalogues, with little success re: Reilly (other than a couple of the later Riggs stuff already in the database, and one with no serial number that was also a late gun) I am now into mid 1974, and guess what? Like taxis, where you wait for ages then 3 come at once,, same with Reillys! I have found 3 in the same catalogue (Weller & Dufty 1974). I shall email the page contents to you.

Regards dave
Thanks David. A few comments on these guns:
-- 7478: There is a "7005" EM Reilly that I've postulated to have a dropped "2" in front of the 7. It fits with that period (i.e 27478 would be 1885. The Midland barrels would have been added later of course. The fact that there is an apparent original Reilly with SN (2)7005 will lead me to put this gun into this 27478 slot until proven otherwise.

Added the following from message 2 (no surprises...wondering if 13914 was originally a pin-fire):
13914 (1865) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (Stock, action, forarm); 12 bore, Single barrel Shotgun. U-L, back-action hammer-gun. (1974 catalog)
26281 (1885) - E.M. Reily & Co., (no barrel). 12 bore SxS shotgun. Top lever, hammerless boxlock. Stock, action and Anson frond (1974 catalog)
26403 (1885) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .500 BPE SxS rifle. U-L, hammer gun (1974 catalog).

David sent these from early catalogs: All are within the conventional parameters of the chart and SN graph but are 3 more data points - added:
17573 (1872) - E.M. Reilly & Co., London & Paris (no further info); .450 SxS Rifle. BPE. U-L, hammer gun. Restocked in India. 26“ brls.
18538 (1874) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. .577 BPE SxS rifle. U-L, hammer gun; back action hammers; grip tail trigger guard. 28” brls.
18757 (1874) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. .450 BPE SxS rifle. U-L, hammer gun; rebounding dolphin hammers. Henry rifling. 26" brls

Added two more new numbers David found from Gavin Gardiner, 31 March 2021 catalog:
12316 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 14 bore, Shotgun SxS. pin-fire, U-L hammer gun, non-rebounding hammer, grip safety, extractor.
16769 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (action, stock, fore-end). 12 bore Shotgun SxS. Purdey thumb lever, Hammer gun.

More from David 1977 catalogs:
18670 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris; .450 Cal BPE Rifle SxS. U-L, hammer gun. 3 1/4” chamber, gold line on rib, rebounding back-action hammers, 26” barrels
26530 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .450. BPE SxS rifle. U-L, Hammer gun, 3 1/4” chamber’s. 28” brls.

Wallis & Wallis Militaria sale July 1877 - this is a very early Reilly muzzle loader (spring 1850 per my chart)...
..8877 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; .577 single-barrel, rifle. Percussion gun. Butt style trigger guard. 3.5” brls.
Hi Gene, It,s a pity there were no photographs of 13914, that would have probably confirmed your thoughts as to it originally being a pinfie.
I have recently acquired a Reilly fowling piece and I was wondering where on the gun the serial number would be. I'll do a couple of photos when the weather improves (England, so might be a while!) Thanks.
DD, traditionally the SN will be in four spots.
-- On the tang behind the trigger guard
-- On the water table aka action flats
-- On the inside of the forearm
-- and on the barrel
-- (some Reilly's from the 1850's did have SN's on the hammers - not a usual occurrence with Reilly).

The company name and address(es) will be on the rib or on the barrel(s).

The name will be engraved on the action side plates.

If the gun has been rebarreled, of course address and SN will not be on it.

If the gun is a pair or triple, the number "1," "2," or "3" will be on the doll's head or top key and engraved on the inside of the forearm.

If there is no serial number, Reilly did not make it, only engraved and marketed it.

Example from my 16 bore 27853: (Note the error made in stamping the action flats - we've established that the gun is in fact serial numbered 27853 and is #1 of a pair).
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
I cannot see anything on the tang behind the trigger guard, is is a bit corroded though. I'm not 100% sure what the forearm is, I haven't heard that term before. There is a number on the rib; R 97. The top of the barrel is engraved 'Reilly' and what looks to be '& Co London'. 13 is stamped on the underside of the barrel, with the proof marks (gauge/bore size?).
=============================================================
-- 35422, 35423; reuniting a pair? earliest extent Reilly's with 295 Oxford Street on the rib.
-- Was a "pair" always an indication of "upper-end"?


(Thanks to Ivanhoe for calling this to my attention). The following listing is on Holt's July 1, sealed bid auction:
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.c...++6027+&refno=++161948&saletype=
THE STOCK, ACTION & FORE-END ONLY OF AN E.M. REILLY & CO. 12-BORE BOXLOCK EJECTOR, serial no. 35422, circa 1910
Estimate ÂŁ15-25

I have seen this stock/forarm/action auctioned several years ago at Scotarms. It is a significant gun per the below messages I've sent to Holt's. (Holt's usually ignores my emails unless they can make money from them). smile

Sirs: I am a Reilly historian; I've corresponded with you several times. In reference to your July 1 auction, the Stock, forearm, action of Reilly SN 35422, originally auctioned a few years ago on Scotarms...is the #1 gun of a pair. #2 -35423 exists. It was subject of the below auction. You may wish to so advertise....it's quite interesting and thus it may be possible to reunite the pair.

http://stonehengearms.co.uk/shotguns/
E.M. REILLY LONDON BOX LOCK EJECTOR
Number 2 of a pair this boxlock ejector has 30" barrels, 2 1/2" chambers and is nitro proofed.The bores are free from pitting and are choked at 1/2 and 3/4. the reach is 15 1/8". Although there is little engraving or embellishment on this gun, it is a gun of good quality. The game rib is engraved with " E.M. Reilly & Co" and the address of 295 Oxford Street in London. This was the address used from 1904 to 1911. There is a vacant escutcheon on the underside of the straight hand stock. The serial number is 35423 if anyone out there has or know of the matching gun to make a pair.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

One more thing about this gun 35422 and the understanding of the pair.. 35423 is the earliest known extant Reilly with "295 Oxford Street" on its rib. Reilly moved from 277 Oxford Street in March 1903. The first advertisement found for 295 Oxford Street is May 1904. I don't know why it took a year to refound the company at its new site but that pretty well dates 35422 and its pair 35423 as between March 1903 and May 1904.

One more observation: One always assumes that a "pair" was made for aristocracy..i.e. - someone was carrying the second gun to load it and allow for easy access by the shooter. Correspondingly, one thus assumes the guns were upper-end. Well, these guns are plain-Janes....Why would "Tommy" "the Captain in some regiment" buy a pair of plain-Jane SxS shotguns? India maybe? (Or as speculated two years ago, perhaps Reilly had stocks of unsold guns and began selling two guns as a "pair" at a discounted price).
=====================================================
Reilly fakes - Lagopus knows!


Following up on DD's above post...we both agree that the percussion gun he bought - no SN - Birmingham proofs - is a pretty awful fake:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Lagopus offered this 5 years ago - he was spot on (as usual):
Reilly guns were sometimes forged as I acquired one once. I knew what was and was given it. Totally un-restorable and nothing like the work turned out by Reilly himself although it might have fooled a blind man. I de-activated it as a wall-piece for someone. May have a photo somewhere on file.
Gene

Pairs for the impecunious.

In recently looked up a number 2 gun for another member and found:-


Edwinson Green guns 6879 and 6880 were ordered as a pair for “Dick-Cunyngham” (Scottish military family), in September 1913.

The notes are difficult to read but they are steel barrel A & D guns, with “ Boss bites” and “H’???y actions”. Could very well be Holloway.

30 Guineas the pair. ÂŁ18 and an E,C. Green gun appears to have been accepted in settlement.

“Stocked and finished in Cheltenham”.


They were middling price guns for a Green BLE, Green charged ÂŁ35 plus 3 Guineas extra for Whitworth steel chopper lump barrels in 1895 for what is now my favourite BLE.

The purchaser of the pair from that family was probably a serving officer (not the VC winner, he was killed at Ladysmith in 1900).

I can think of at least 2 reasons why he might need a pair.

1. Invitations- he might well, particularly if on the Staff or an Aide de Camp, be invited to driven shoots and be allocated the third under keeper as loader (disbelieving “Only one gun, .. Sir?”)

2. Service abroad. If you are hundreds of miles from the nearest gunsmith a spare gun fitted to you would be very comforting .
==================================================
Possible indication that Reilly was making guns for other London makers in the 1830's.


Ivanhoe, sent the following advertisement from a 1977 Weller & Dufty catalogue for a Beattie percussion rifle from circa 1835:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Per IGC, and TRW999: James Beattie was born in 1793 in Chilton, Buckinghamshire. In 1832 he was recorded as a gun maker and percussion cap maker at 43 Upper Marylebone Street. In 1836 he bought the business of Collinson Hall and moved to his premises at 52 Upper Marylebone Street.

The oldest Reilly long gun is a muzzle-loading Rifle SN 162 (1829). It has the same shape barrel as the above Beattie - Octagon shading to 16 sides then to round....and it has "Reilly" stamped on the hammer (something he discontinued doing later on). (See below advertisement and photo). Reilly, thus, may have made the above gun for Beattie - Beattie then finished it. That is a very good find and it may well be a solid indication that Reilly was early on making guns and gun parts for other makers in London as has been alleged.

==================================================
162

https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=10247&aid=86974&lid=22392051
A 14-BORE PERCUSSION SINGLE-BARRELLED SPORTING-GUN, serial no 162, circa 1835, with re-browned twist-iron triple-stage 32in. barrel with carved bands at the intersection, the top-flat signed in gothic script 'J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS LONDON', bead fore-sight, platinum line with a pheasant engraved at breech, platinum vented plug, scroll engraved top-tang, borderline and acanthus scroll engraved bar-action lock signed in script 'REILLY', highly figured walnut half-stock chequered at the wrist, iron heel-plate, the long top-spur engraved with acanthus scrolls inhabited with a pheasant, border and scroll engraved trigger-guard bow, moulded iron fore-end cap with integral ramrod throat, plain iron thimbles and brass-tipped ebony ramrod 300-400

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
=======================================================
Reilly .577 rifles 1850 - 1858;


Ivanhoe sent an interesting advertisement from a 1977 Wallis & Wallis catalog for a Reilly, New Oxford Street, single barrel, .577 percussion hammer gun SN 8877...which per my chart would be spring 1850. It is very similar to two other Reilly 577 single barrel rifles in my database 10619 (early 1858) and a gun from a Polish site that had no SN mentioned. Note the "scroll guard" trigger guard extension. ("scroll guard" - terminology supplied by Stephen Helsley...thanks - tried to figure it out for a couple of years).

It's interesting that Reilly's style on muzzle loader single barrel .577 rifles was so consistent for such a long time period. Clearly it was a popular choice for shooters of the time. In addition, the patch box from 8877 certainly matches those on Reilly SxS percussion guns from that time period about 1840-1857.

From top: 8877, SN unk, 10619:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
This piece of histoy is for sale...

E. M. Reilly & Co bore and rifle shotgun commissioned by Alfonso XII
Thanks Campero - 25161 was discussed at the bottom of p.23. There are some odd things about its history so here are the comments reposted:

25161 been sent to me by a number of people including a couple of very prominent gun writers. It is a bar-in-wood 12 bore side lever with two sets of black powder proofed barrels - Shotgun and rifle. The SN is 25161.

Here's the problem. 25161 would have been serial numbered in Mid 1883 according to my chart. The case, however, shows is was a prize given by the King of Spain in Mid 1880. Here is the provenance from the original advertisement:

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...4&saletype=
Estimate $15,000-20,000

.."We are kindly informed by the vendor that the gun has been in the
..possession of the family since it was purchased by his Great Grandfather,
..Mr Juan Agudo Valero in the 1880's.

.."His livestock business brought him into social circles of all levels, from
..contact with Royalty to a long lasting friendship with Manuel Mejis, a top
..bullfighter popularly called 'The Black Pope' and even extending to a friendship
..with Juan Camargo Gomez - a notorious bandit, known as 'TheVivillo' (to whom
..Juan sent emergency funds when forced to flee to Argentina to escape arrest)

"The gun was commissioned by King Alphonso XII and gifted as a prize for a
..'Throw' shooting competition (Live Pigeon match) by the King in 1880. Family
..tradition has it that the gun was won by an auspicious military man who was did
..not hunt or shoot as a pastime; the prize was bought from him by Juan - perhaps
..as a future gift for a person of influence. However, the gift was never realised and
..the gun has been passed down through the family ever since."


Well, something happened along the way from order to delivery and the story above sure seems odd. How could a military man who won the prize not hunt or shoot? And the "livestock business" sure has a feeling of marginality tending towards cattle rustling maybe? smile. Perhaps the gun was ordered in 1880 and not delivered until 1883? Perhaps the original gun was stolen and was replaced by Reilly? Or perhaps the case was stolen and the gun commissioned to replace the original. Whatever it is a beautiful gun and worth taking a look at.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Thanks, Argo44! You have fabulous information about this beautiful and special gun and about Rilley history!

I hope this gun returns to Spain. đź‰

Regards!
============================================================
18534 - 1874 8 bore rifle


Rifle originally sold on Gavin Gardner about 3 years ago. Mr. Malcolm King had some really nice Reilly rifles. 13 lbs 11 oz which is about right for a rifle of this size. Here's the quirk. The gun was advertised as SN 18534 on both Gavin and Rock Island (presumably the number stamped on the water table, barrel and fore-arm). Yet 18543 is engraved on the tang.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...bore-back-action-underlever-double-rifle
This massive 8 bore double rifle sports browned Damascus steel barrels with blade front and two leaf folding rear sight on the matted solid rib with "E. M. REILLY & Co. OXFORD ST. LONDON." and "& RUE SCRIBE, PARIS" on the left and right barrels respectively. The casehardened rotary underlever hammer back action displays gorgeous scroll engraving and "E. M. REILLY & Co./LONDON" on either lock. The engraving extends to the hammers, the tangs, underlever, and trigger guard which is numbered "18543". The rifle features double triggers, single extractor, and non-rebounding hammers. Nicely figured, multi-point checkered splinter forend with engraved fittings including the non-captive wedge fastener and pistol grip stock with horn grip cap, blank inscription oval, and casehardened steel buttplate. Includes a canvas bound takedown case with "L. R. PHILIPPS" on the lid containing a E. M. Reilly trade label, oiler, leather sling, and two piece cleaning rob. The length of pull is 14 9/16 inches, and the weight is 13 lbs 11 oz. Provenance: The Malcolm King Collection

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
=====================================================
277 closes Feb 1903 - 295 opens May 1904; Changes in the 1900-1907 dated SN list


This post will be of interest to maybe 5 people in the universe. However, I've been puzzled by a "hole" in Reilly's advertising record. The last advertisement for 277 Oxford Street is in "The Field" 14 Feb 1903; There is not another advertisement for Reilly anywhere until 21 May 1904, "The Field."

. . . . . . . .14 Feb 1903. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .21 May 1904
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

277 Oxford Street was visited by "The Field" in early 1903 - no hint it was closing:

Also from 14 Feb 1903 - The Editor physically was in Reilly's workshop not long before - depending on what "lately" means.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

If Reilly did anything well it was advertising, a constant barrage from the time the company began to make guns in 1828. The "hole" thus means something. The conclusion is that for some reason Bert Reilly closed 277 in Feb 03 and did not open a formal Reilly workshop again at 295 until May 04. He may have had some sort of temporary set up during this time but that would be odd.

This has now been taken into account in the extant gun dated list on p.57. The 1907 marker gun 35554 stays put, the 1897 marker gun 34723 stays. So it was just a matter of moving a few guns around, not more than 70 to make the new (presumed) facts fit...i.e. 1903 now only has 10 guns numbered in that year (2 months of work). This was during Reilly's precipitous downslide so doesn't matter so much if an extant Reilly was numbered in 1903 or 1905 but the chart is made to be as accurate as possible fitting current known or deduced facts. If something comes up showing Reilly was working during the rest of 1903-early 1904, the chart will be changed back.
Make that 6 people.

Keep up the good work!

Regards

AlanD
Always more questions than answers with anything from the past ! You have amassed a lot of info on Reilly despite the passage of time .it`s sad that so little has been recorded of so many other once thriving establishments.
Maybe 7, add me to the list!

Keep it up! Each morsel adds a little bit more.
Not slacking off. Here's part of the Reilly label Photo collection compiled over 5 years. The labels can definitely now be dated.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Oh, I'd hazard a guess it is a plethora of interested readers, all with baited breath.....




Serbus,

Raimey
rse
For the Reilly enthusiasts, this article just came to my email from Gray's Sporting Journal. A short, enjoyable read from Terry Weiland.

Terry Weiland- Reilly Restoration
Thanks Jim. Terry Weiland first wrote about that renovated Reilly 15 years ago. It's been a favorite of his and mentioned in his articles for years along with other Reilly's. He also wrote an article in Double Gun Journal about Reilly in 2014.

https://www.[censored].com/shotgun...ry-wieland-on-his-em-reilly-12-bore.html
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_festicvaloflights_201002/99344
https://www.riflemagazine.com/combination-guns
https://www.wolfeoutdoorsports.com/handloader-277-april-2012/

However, I have never been able to get a Serial Number or address on the rib for that renovated gun from any of his articles. I've written to an email he used a few times; I believe he lives in Missouri - without success.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=509093

I have contacted Grays Sporting Journal and asked that they please pass a message to Terry about the History and dating chart and ask for the SN of the gun. I don't think he will reply but I would like to talk to him. He was one of the first to write about Reilly's back in the early years of this century and Reilly's clearly are one of his favorites. Gene

In one of his articles some time ago he wrote about a .577 snider cartridge double rifle (now a 20 bore shotgun). I have been able to lift a SN from the cover, 14201...by my chart that would be 1866. It sure looks like it was originally a pin-fire rifle to me modified to center-fire to adapt to the Snider cartridge which was adopted in 1866...then later to a 20 bore shotgun.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
==========================================================
Reilly the technological risk-taker 1850’s-1860’s


As mentioned in the history E.M. Reilly was not an innovator; He was a technically literate businessman. But he was very astute and always tried to be one step ahead of demand. As such he took technological business risks. This trait has been commented on in several articles in the mid-1800’s in “The Field.” His shop always had the latest breech-loader or new innovation that one could handle and either purchase outright or order. Below are three periods where he appeared to put significant resources into a technological gamble:

----- summer 1857 – massive investment in Pin-Fire Breech-Loaders ---------
100 Pin-Fire guns out of 300 guns numbered


E.M. commented in a letter to “The Field” in December 1857 that until circa 1857 those Englishmen purchasing a breech loader did so for the sake of “novelty.” It was only “quite recently” that demand took off. Per this advertisement in summer 1857 Reilly had 100 breech-loading pin-fires in the state of manufacture. In that year Reilly from summer 1856-summer 1857 made about 300 serial numbered guns, J.C. another 100 (he did not make breech-laders). In other words Reilly had switched/devoted 1/3 of his output during that period to pin-fire breech-loaders, this two years before Purdey even built his first. In the famous quote in "The Field" from October 1858, Reilly (alongn with Lang and Blanch) was "overdone with orders" for break-action pin-fires. His gamble paid off.

20 June 1857 "The Field":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

10054 - oldest datable UK made pin-fire - Sep 1856 (see p.56)
10054- Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London. 15 bore, SxS Rifle, pin-fire, Single-bite, Lang-Lefaucheux forward U-L. 1st SN'd extant center-break gun. . (Note: Possibly the oldest extant UK-made center-break gun.)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Third extant Reilly breech-loader SN 13344, August 1857.
10344 - Reilly, (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS shotgun, pin-fire hammer gun with leather case.


----- summer 1858 – Significant investment in Prince-Patent, Breech-Loading Rifles ------
75 Prince rifles out of 280 numbered guns


In probably late summer - early fall 1856 Reilly adopted a new label which had two references to Breech-Loader:
-- “Fusils a Bascule” (French for center-break Breech loader)
-- “Improved Breech Loaders” – In 1855 Prince patented his Breech-Loading single barrel rifle, undoubtedly the finest of his era. At the same time Terry patented is breech loader. There was a ferment in the industry as American inventions began arriving.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Reilly it appears in summer 1858 decided to put a lot of eggs in the Prince basket. On the dating chart there are only three extant Reilly’s from the period July-December 1858. All three are Prince patent breech-loaders, SN 10738 – 10872. Reilly devoted considerable manufacturing resources to stocking up on Prince breech loaders - From this he could have serial numbered some 100 Prince rifles of some 280 total guns made during this period.

10738- Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; .350 cal, single-barrel, breech loader. (10438 on hammer). Frederic Prince patent.
10811- Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .25 bore (sic) (probably .577), single barrel breech-loader hammer gun, Frederic Prince patent. (1st use of "Oxford St." and "Reilly & Co.")
10872 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. .577 cal; Rifle; single barrel, breech loader, hammer gun, Frederic Prince Patent.

As speculated previously, this may also reinforce the notion that Reilly was behind the 1858 “Field” advertisement signed by 12 notable London gunmakers urging Arsenal to reopen the Army trials to match the Prince breech-loader against the recently adopted (1853) Enfield rifle-musket. Reilly it appears had some sort of arrangement with Prince and Green (who were in a partnership at the time), possibly a financial investment which kept him from signing the letter. But as speculated before, Reilly may well have provoked the whole thing as a business ploy (see analysis on p.55):

"The Field", 24 April 1858
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

------- 1867-68 – investment in Green Brothers Breech-Loading Rifles -------------
150 Green Bros rifles out of 300 guns numbered


As documented in the above line on p.24, Green-Bros patented their breech-loading rifle in January 1862. In March 1864 Reilly announced that he had manufacturiung rights to the patent and began an extensive advertising campaign for the rifle. The first Green-Bros Reilly pat use number is #23, SN 13333 (May 1864)

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

The Rifle did not win the 1864-65 interim breech-loading trials – Snider did – but the Green brothers patent rifle was extremely accurate, won a lot of shooting contests and was in demand. From about September 1867 to January 1868 it appears Reilly serial numbered almost 150 Green brothers rifles out of 300 total serial numbered guns produced…one-half of his manufacturing production.(see p.57 for more complete info). (There is a possibility that SN 14763 actually had pat use #277 rather than 177 - which would better fit the curve of Reilly made Green Bros patent use numbers - but that is what the auction house said).

14763 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Single barrel breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #177
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

15047 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 Rifle. Single barrel, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #325
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Wonderful stuff, Gene. The late 1850s is a difficult period to decipher.
========================================================
7021 - Now earliest SN in the J.C. "7000" series, early 1846


Holt's has this small Reilly percussion gun for sale SN 7021 advertised as a "boy's percussion 20 bore." LOP looks to be about 12".....if you ever wanted your son to get into percussion guns, this would be perfect. Whatever, it is now the earliest SN in the J.C. Reilly "7000 " series which he started in about 1846 and which continued until his retirement in 1857. 7023 was the pervious earliest in this series.

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.c...+++524+&refno=++168575&saletype=

RREILLY, LONDON
A 20-BORE PERCUSSION SINGLE-BARRELLED SPORTING-GUN FOR A BOY, serial no. 7021,
for between 1835-47, with round twist 27in. barrel engraved with a starburst at breech and marked 'LONDON', long, engraved top-tang, borderline and scroll engraved back-action lock signed 'REILLY', engraved dolphin-headed hammer, walnut half-stock chequered at the wrist, engraved iron furniture and brass tipped ebony ramrod, 41 1/2in. overall, weight approx. 4 1/2lbs

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
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Holt's Reilly historical descriptions


As mentioned above Holt's has 3 Reilly long-guns all percussion in their upcoming auction. Holt's has the worst Reilly historical descriptions of any auction house. I've sent them the history - they won't read it. To try to rectify this situation I've sent the following snarky letter; Maybe it will get results:

Sirs,

-- re the 1" percussion Reilly with NSN in the upcoming auction, it cannot be "circa 1855." The company did not begin using "E.M. Reilly & Co." until October 1859.

-- re the Reilly percussion gun SN 5580, the history is egregiously and embarrassingly wrong.

Sir: Your Reilly historical descriptions are consistently erroneous. I have previously forwarded to you a 30 page New History of Reilly a well as a chart for dating Reilly's by serial numbers compiled from a database of some 500 extant Reillys. Apparently both have gone unread.

I am sending you below a short historical outline so that at least such fundamental errors don't happen in the future. (This is not a criticism; it's an effort at insuring accuracy in advertising).

And if you would like, I can resend you the complete history now almost in book-length. Other auction houses are now using it. It was published by Diggory Hadoke in 2019 in attenuated form and will be published next year.

Gene Williams
McLean, Virginia

============================ Short ========================

Joseph Charles Reilly, b1786, Ireland, moved to London to study law c1808. In 1814 he opened a jewelry shop at 12 Middle Row, Holborn Bars, next to the Inns of the Court where his clientele included barristers and country gentlemen. He began making guns circa1828 and by 1831 identified himself exclusively as “gun maker.”

From the beginning he employed a consistent business model; Make a quality product, sell it for a moderate price; deliver it rapidly; and make what would sell. With this model he undercut better known gun makers. He only serial numbered those guns he made. His barrels were invariably proof-marked in London, the shotguns had straight English stocks while the rifles either a pistol grip or a trigger scroll extension and the stocks for the most part used highly figured French walnut. After 1837 Reilly only serial numbered long-guns though he marketed pistols.

-- In 1835 Reilly moved to 316 High Holborn where in 1840 his 23 year old son Edward Michael joined him as a partner in the company.

--In March 1847 they moved to 502 New Oxford Street where the company remained for 50 years. The gun ribs were for the most part labeled “Reilly.” The company advertised as “Reilly, Gun Maker.”

E.M Reilly was one of the first UK gun makers to become involved in making breech-loading pin-fires. Reilly’s first pin-fires appeared in mid-1856. One of his guns, SN 10054 from late summer 1856 may be the oldest dateable extant UK-made center-break pin-fire.

-- In September 1857 JC Reilly retired in favor of EM.

-- In August 1858 a new branch was opened at 315 Oxford Street called “Reilly’s Armoury House” or “The Manufactory.” The company may have used the name “Reilly & Co.” for a short time from Aug 1858 to Oct 1859. At that time the company name changed definitively to E.M. Reilly & Co., a name which lasted on gun ribs and on trade labels and advertisements until 1918 and beyond to WWII.

-- Reilly won gold medals at the Paris Universelle exhibition in 1867, which led him to become “Gunmaker to Napoleon III” and open a branch in Paris at 2 rue Scribe in February 1868. The branch remained opened until summer 1885.

By 1880 Reilly was making twice as many bespoke hand-made guns as Purdey and Holland & Holland combined and his guns dominated UK pigeon shooting contests for 20 years.

-- In November 1881 "502" was renumbered "16"; "315" became "277."

-- In August 1885 rue Scribe was closed and in 1890 EM Reilly died.

-- In May 1897 16 New Oxford street was closed.

-- In February 1903 the company moved from 277 to 295 Oxford street where they remained until bankruptcy in June 1912. A small gun shop E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Maker, located at 13 High Street, Marylebone run by EM Reilly’s son, continued in business until 1918.

-- In August 1922 a sporting goods dealer Charles Riggs bought the name “E.M Reilly & Co., London” and used it for many years on his Birmingham-made guns; he sold over 25,000 of these “non-Reilly’s.” Their serial umbers are 6 digits and begin around 128,000.

The Reilly’s sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly's serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1825 to 1912, all built by them. The guns that they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. They were one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was consistently classy. Reilly’s best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.
=====================================================
Changing the date for the introduction of E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Makers
Changing the date for the introduction of E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturers


Going back through the history to make sure it is valid, I took a look at newspaper ads from the time J.C. retired in Sep 1857 to 1861 when the name and label "E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturers" was firmly established. I've had to make changes.
-- Up to August 1858, possibly Jan 1859 - "Reilly, Gun Maker."
-- Aug 1858 (possibly Jan 1859)-Mar 1859 - "Reilly & Co., Gun Maker" The company may have used this name after Aug 1858. However, if first appears in papers in January 1858.
-- March 1859 - "E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Makers" - This name used for the first time - believe this name superseded "Reilly & Co." though ads appeared simultaneously.
-- August 1860 - "E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturer" (not plural) - First use in newspaper ads. This previously was the date adopted for when the new label was created. However, now believe that's wrong.
-- April 1861 - "E.M. Reilly & Co, Gun Manufacturers" (plural) - first introduction in newspaper ads that is now the date for the label change. This conclusion is supported somewhat by analyzing large format ads.

Here is the analysis to support the argument - It's pedantic be warned but trying to be as accurate as possible - when guns are being dated, months count:
--------------- 1857--------------------------------------------------------
Sep 1857 - J.C. Reilly retired; Company name in advertisement remains “Reilly, Gun Maker, 502 New Oxford Street”:
. . .02 Sep 1857 London Daily News - Note Gun Maker singular
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

The Label remained that adopted after the 1855 Paris Universelle with the 1851 & 1855 medals and "Fusils a Bascule"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

There was one "outlier newspaper advertisement" "E.M. Reilly, Manufacturer, 502 New Oxford Street" from December 1857 - SN 10655 (March 1858) has this address on its rib.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

--------------- 1858--------------------------------------------------------
Up to Aug 1858 the company remained: “Reilly, Gun Maker, 502 New Oxford Street” - Gun Maker singular
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Large format Ads remained the same:
1858 Grace's Guide ad
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Aug 1858, 315 Oxford Street opens: “Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street and the shooting galleries No. 315“ - Here are the "before and after" ads in "The Field":
. . .Top: 31 Jul 1858 “The Field”
. . .Bottom: 8 Aug 1858 “The Field”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

315 Oxford Street adopted a new label:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Both addresses were used in newspaper ads until Dec 1858:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

In November & December1858 there was an outlier Ad: “Reilly, Manufacturer, 502, New Oxford Street.” It appeared in three newspapers but apparently had no effect on the name of the company:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

======================== To Be Continued======================
Great ads from the late 1850s, Gene. Very interesting that pairs of guns were being offered as early as 1858.
==================================================================
Continuation: May 1859 - New start date for "E.M. Reilly & Co." and two labels


---------------1859--------------------------------------------------------

Early 1859: Reilly & Co., Gun Makers - plural; this address was advertised from January 1859 to October 1859 in newspapers with most coming in the first three months of 1859. No trade label exists for this name. No such advertisement can be found in 1858 newspapers, however, I speculate it might have been used as the company name as early as August 1858 when 315 was opened. This name may have been formally registered with London City in late 1858 for a time. (Note: Only one gun with this name on the barrel exists per current information).

. . . . .05 Mar 1859, "Illustrated London News"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

March 1859: E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Makers - plural. The first advertisement for this address was in the Field early March 1858, synonymous with one for "Reilly & Co." Subsequent advertisements began in use in general in May 1859. So arbitrairially I'll list the formal date for the advent of this Company name to May 1859.
. . . .**Note: Reilly built a hundred "spec guns" as of March 1859 anticipating demand that fall, as they have done for 20 years. This is why Reilly could deliver a gun in a few weeks while others took months.

. . . . .05 Mar 1859, "The Field"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .1859[/color], "Grace’s"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

May 1859 - The label for 502 New Oxford Street probably changed at this time:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

315 Oxford Street continued to use all sorts of names in advertisements: "Reilly Armoury House," "Reilly’s Armoury House"; " Reillys, the Armoury House"; "Reilly’s London Armoury House." However, these were never "official" company names.

. . . . .31 December 1859, "Volunteer Services Gazette"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

May 1859 - With the advent of the new company name the trade label for 315 probably changed:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
========================================================
Continuation Advert analysis: 1860 - Gun Manufacturer does not = the New Company name


---------------1860--------------------------------------------------------

1860 - E.M Reilly & Co., Gun Makers (plural): 502 continued to use "Gun Makers." 315 continued to have separate advertisements, sometimes in the same newspaper at the same time; but the company remained "E.M. Reilly, Gun Makers" for both:

. . . . .03 Mar 1860, Volunteer Services Gazette
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .1860 - Bradshaw’s
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

04 August1860: E.M Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturer (singular) appears in newspaper advertisements. However, this description can't be found in large format ads. Also note the "Manufacturer" - single case. Formerly Aug 1860 was designated as the changeover to "E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturers" (plural).
. . . .04 August 1860, Sporting Life
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

In case there is any doubt about 502 and 315 being the same company here is a variant of the "Armoury House" advertisements (with "manufacturer"):
15 Dec 1860, Volunteer Services Gazette
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
================================================================
Continuation Advert Analysis 1861 - April 1861 - New Date for "E.M Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturers" and Definitive Reilly Label


--------------1861--------------------------------------------------------

Early 1861 - "E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Makers" continues in use. Newspaper ads sometimes do not identify "Gun Makers," "Gun Manufacturer" etc.
. . . . .04 March 1861, The Sporting Magazine
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .30 Mar 1861, Volunteer Services Gazette (Note Reilly publicly stating he made the champion target gun)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

April 1861: "E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturers" (plural) - 1st use in newspaper ads; It begins appearing in Guide Books and other large format ads.

. . . . .14 Apr 1861, Bell’s Life. **Note: "Gentlemen can superintend the progress of their orders."
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .May 1861, Popular Overland Guide
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

April 1861: Conclusion is that the definitive 1860's Reilly label appeared about April 1861.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


Finish pedantic analysis: But since I said in the introduction that I could footnote each paragraph, indeed each sentence of the New History, I'd better be able to back it up. And in trying to date extant guns, a month is important.
=======================================================================
Reilly and Catholicism


In the introduction to the new history I speculate that Reilly being an Irish Catholic may have played against him getting a military contract with Arsenal or being allowed to have a "Royal Warrant" as gun maker to the royal family (this in spite of selling many guns to the Prince of Wales and other princes to give as gifts abroad).

But were the Reilly's, JC and EM religious? From these two blurbs in the London papers it appears they were - a pound was a lot of money back then:

. . .22 Nov 1844, Morning Chronicle:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . .04 Dec 1847, The Tablet:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

This paragraph has been added to the New History under "Attempts to Curry Favor with the British Royal Family":

Note: The Reilly’s were Irish Catholic. E.M. at least appears to have been involved with the church and to have campaigned against religious discrimination. Whether this influenced his ability to obtain a “Royal Warrant” or even to win a contract with Arsenal is problematic.
============================================================
15774 (1869)


Reilly SxS shotgun, 12 bore, center-fire for sale at upcoming Rhode Island Auction. The interesting thing about this gun is the center-fire system. It first appeared in a Reilly advertisement in 1866 and was featured in his display at the 1867 Paris Universelle (see below):

https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...-barrel-rotary-underlever-hammer-shotgun
Description:
This early center fire hammergun was manufactured c. 1869. With browned Damascus barrels with concave rib signed “E.M. REILLY & CO. NEW OXFORD STREET.LONDON.” and engraved with a spray of scrollwork at the breech end. Casehardened action with serpentine fences and underlever with looped finial, and casehardened non-rebounding bar sidelocks each signed “E.M. REILLY & CO.” and with hare’s ear hammer. With fine classic English border and scroll engraving throughout. Figured walnut stock with checkered grip and forearm and checkered dark horn buttplate. London black powder proof marks. 14 1/2" LOP. Provenance: The Malcolm King Collection

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

I've always wondered why it toOK shotgun makers until about 1866 to start to use center-fire; looks like rifles had been using versions of C-F since the Prince patent bolt action. Ive a feeling it had to do with primers. In 1866 there were two patents for shotgun primers still used to today. Paradoxically the American patent by Berdon is now used in Europe while the UK patent by Boxer is used in the US.

1866, March - Center-fire primer cap shotgun shell design by American Berdan
1866, Oct 13 - Center-fire primer cap shotgun shell design by Edward Mounier Boxer.
=======================================================
1859 Reilly Berringer Style pin-fire


In 1859 Reilly had four pin-fires at the July 1859 “The Field” muzzle-loader vs Breech-Loader trials. At least two were Lefaucheaux center-break guns using the Lefaucheaux style under-forend lever, probably a short lever. However speculate that at least one was an around-the- trigger-guard lever “Beringer Style.” Here is an 1860 book which has a sketch of such a Reilly. Sketch was probably made in 1859.
https://books.google.com/books?id=gVIBAA...lly&f=false
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Compare it to the gun below Reilly pin-fire shotgun (No SN mentioned in the ad). It’s an 1859-60 Beringer style Lefaucheaux center-break gun, and obviously a classy one made in 315 Oxford Street. It is so similar to the sketch that it could be the actual gun in the sketch (except the gun in the sketch is strange - two hammers, one trigger). Reilly did not make a lot of the “German style” trigger guards.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
=========================================================================
35614 - built by G&S HOLLOWAY in 1911 - changing the chronology and history 1907-1912


Mark Crudgington just worked on a Reilly 12 bore, SN 35614, with E.M. Reilly, 295 Oxford Street, London on the rib. Mark notes that it was built by G&S Holloway per a number near the lump H8113. The 8*** serial number shows it was built by Holloway in 1911. It has post 1904 London Proof marks and was Holloway's "model 1750" that sold retail for ÂŁ17 -5-0. That is bad engraving for a Reilly and one must assume the barrels are Birmingham proofed. This is not your typical Reilly.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

This will influence the dating chart and the history in two ways:

1) This is only the second serial numbered Reilly found so far with marks on it indicating it was made by another firm and finished by Reilly. The first is 10614 (1858) with S.Breeden's name on the action and Brum proofs. I've speculated that after the closure of 277 Oxford Street in February 1903 there is no way Reilly could have kept his gunsmiths at work with the amount of guns he was building per year. He must have been selling guns built in the white by others.

2) Reilly sold 50 more guns in 1911 and 1912 leading up to bankruptcy than previously reckoned. Per this advertisement Reilly was selling off his stock of guns at a 40% discount in September 1911, perhaps getting ready for bankruptcy.

16 Sep 1911, The Field
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Thanks a bunch for the help Mark
On Guntrader UK there is currently an Edwinson Green hammer 12 bore SN H9975.

That is not a Green SN and his records show he had guns made by Holloway. Presumably H9975 is another Holloway number.
============================================================
Reilly had a small shooting gallery at 316 High Holborn, 1835-1847


Per this advertisement, Reilly had a small shooting gallery at 316 High Holborn.

. . . . .14Apr1843 Illustrated London News
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

This is confirmed by this Blissett advertisement. Blissett occupied 316 High Holborn when Reilly moved to 502 New Oxford street at the end of March 1847

. . . . .13Apr1847 London Daily News
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Here is where 316 High Holborn was located.
(google earth)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Information has been added to the history
============================================================
-- Reilly manufactures 400 Green Brothers Patent rifles 1864 – 1868;
-- First Reilly use of assembly line interchangeable parts = "American System"?
-- Reilly builds rifles in the white for Wilkinson?
Modification of the Reilly History


There are three previous posts above (p. 12, 28, and above) which discuss Reilly’s manufacturing of Green Brothers (C.E. and J) breech loading single barrel rifles from spring 1864 to 1868. More rifles have come to light and this post will update the history so will be somewhat redundant:

C.E. and J. Green were gunmakers in London and in the 1850’s were regarded as one of the most innovative of breech-loading rifle firms. For several years they were in partnership with Prince and helped make and market the Prince breech loader. Per several posts above, Reilly may have had a financial stake in Green and Prince since neither Green nor Reilly signed the famous “The Field” open letter urging Arsenal to reopen the Rifle competition in favor of the Prince.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Green Bros. partnership with Prince came to an end in summer 1859. In January 1861 the Green Bros. took out a patent on a new breech-loader featuring a breech which could be attached to the 1853 Enfield rifle-musket. Nothing much seemed to come of the patent.

However, in early 1864 the Prussians crushed the Danes and the Dreyse Needle Gun got a lot of the credit. Suddenly every European army could see the handwriting on the wall and a frantic search began in UK to find an interim breech-loader which would do until a purpose built one could be adopted. Arsenal announced a competition.

In March 1864 Reilly announced in the UK Press that he now owned manufacturing rights to the Green Bros rifle and this was followed up by several press releases and something of a publicity campaign to show the gun and demonstrate its capabilities (see below advertisements).

In the end the competition was won by American Snider (who was living in penury in UK and who died before he could earn a farthing from his invention) and the Snider-Enfield was formally adopted in September 1866. The Green Bros rifle used a paper water-proof cartridge with a separate percussion cap while the Snider could use a metallic cartridge with primer included. Yet the Green Bros rifle continued to be popular with the marksmen crowd for another couple of years. It’s run terminated before the end of the 1860’s because it couldn’t be adapted to the all metallic cartridge.

There are so far 6 known surviving Reilly Green Brothers rifles out of an estimated some 350 made from 1864 to 1868. There are two possible lessons from the Pat use#- SN correllation sequence:

. . . . .-- Reilly SN 13326 - 13333 corresponds to Green Bros Pat use #16 -# 23, meaning that Reilly manufactured a whole block of guns at the same time in April-May 1864 all at 502, New Oxford Street. How many of these were made in this “block" is unknown but Reilly did gamble on making as many as 100 speculation guns at a time, particularly those with a new technology.

. . . . .— Reilly SN 14763 - 15047 corresponds to Green Bros Pat use #177 – #325 during a period from about Sep 1867 to March 1868. Reilly serial number a total of 284 guns of all types during this period. 148 of these guns, 50% of the total Reilly production, were Green Bros rifles made at both workshops, 502 New Oxford and 277 Oxford Streets. This again indicates that he made the guns as a “batch” or “lot” pretty much all at the same time.

Speculate that this making of "lots" or "batches" was perhaps an Reilly early attempt at an assembly-line interchangable-parts production called the “American System” in UK and which was being popularized in London at the time by the Enfield Armoury. This mass-production system did not reach Birmingham until the 1870’s.

1. 12002 - use #1: E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #1, Reilly manufacture (originally type 3 Enfield). (1861). 9.1 lbs, 39” barrel
-- This is #1 (no photo). The Serial number from 1861 is too early for the patent, which wasn’t granted until Jan 1862. This obviously was a previously made Enfield rifle-musket selected by Reilly to be converted, possibly as an experiment. It worked. The barrel is a full length 39." Later guns were reduced to 24” barrels accounting for the weight difference.
https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-9371.html

2. 13326 - use #16: E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #16, Reilly manufacture. (no photo). 7.4 Lbs. 24.5” barrel.
https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-9851.html

3. 13333- use #23: E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #23, Reilly manufacture.
http://www.invaluable.co.uk/auction-lot/e.m.-reilly-co,-london-a-rare-.577-percussion-c-671-c-645dde1fff
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

4. 13884 – use #159: E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London; .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #159, Reilly manufacture. 24” barrel.
https://www.ima-usa.com/products/or...ech-loading-carbine-by-e-m-reilly-c-1864
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

5. 14763 - use #177: E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London; .577 cal. Single barrel breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent – Pat use #177, Reilly manufacture.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21639/lot/426/
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

6. 15047 - use #325: E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; .577 Rifle. Single barrel, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #325, Reilly manufacture. 24” barrel.
https://caseantiques.com/item/lot-698-british-e-m-reilly-co-percussion-carbine-577-caliber/
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Note. Royal Armouries Museum has a Liège produced copy of the Green Brothers patent rifle. Liège would copy anything but the fact they copied a rifle with a limited market (Reilly appears to have sold less than 400 of them based on Pat Use numbers) is interesting.
https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-9719.html

There is this oddity. Reilly was the sole manufacturer of Green Bros. Breech Loaders. Yet there is this Green Bros. rifle with Wilkinson's name on it. The conclusion is that Reilly likely made it for Wilkinson.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...577-percussion-capping--534-c-c15403187c
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


======== Green brothers continued see below ==============
======== Green brothers continued from above ==============

Here are a few of the articles in the English press about the Green Bros invention and Reilly's manufacture of the gun which began in early 1864:

(1). Volunteer Services Gazette, of 12 March 1864:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

(2). 04 April 1864, London Daily News:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

(3). 28 Jul 1864, Morning Post - a report on the beginning of breech loading trials...and first mention of the Snider, which wound up beating out the Green Bros and Reilly for the contract as UK's interim breech loader:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

(4). Here examples the hundreds of Reilly ads run during 1864...he was not shy in promoting this gun...millions of pounds in government contracts were at stake. And you see again the consistent promotion of his testing facility at 315 Oxford Street.

. . . . .London Daily News, 24 April 1864
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .1865 advertisements:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Just noticed a Reilly ,22 rim fire pistol listed in the December 1977 Weller & Dufty catalogue.

.22 RF single shot target pistol, serial No 5375, by Reilly, New Oxford street London. With octagonal barrel, trigger guard with spur, one piece checkered bag shaped walnut grips. Frame engraved with border lines and foliate scrolls. Barrel 7 3/4 inch.

Regard

AlanD
Thanks Alan. There are a lot of Reilly engraved and retailed pistols - percussion duelers, pepper pots, howdahs, pocket muzzle loaders, rotating barrels, single shot target pistols, revolvers - Trantor, Adams, Tower, Walker bulldog, S&W, Colt, Webley..... But Reilly didn't serial number any pistol after 1837 that I can find. He may have assembled low-cost revolvers from Liège 1860-1880's...a lot of London gun makers were in the "import-the-parts-from-Belgium-and-build-them-up" game. But he didn't serial number assembled guns either. See p. 26 for a pretty complete chapter on Reilly pistols.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Argo44,
Tranter revolvers (100s) supplied to Rigby all had serial numbers.

I have a Tranter/Powell .230 rimfire revolver No.10042 (1867).
Steve, all the revolvers have their makers' serial numbers to my knowledge and can probably be dated by them. It's just that they cannot be used to date a Reilly gun - except where they have a case with a label. The label might then be associated with a time period thanks to the serial number revolver.

Here is an example...I thought this Reilly outlier pistol-only, 315 Oxford Street label was late 1870's. I now believe it was late 1860's, early 1870's but will research the revolver more to make sure.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

A clearer look at this label.
--"'Breech Loading Gun and Rifle Manufacturers"
-- 315 Oxford Street. Principle establishment 502 New Oxford Street and 2, rue Scribe, Paris. (post Feb 1868 - pre November 1881
-- gun maker to Napoleon III (prior to the fall of Napoleon III at the battle of Sedan, 3 Sep 1870? Actually Reilly continued to use that recommendation in his labels and Empress Eugenie bought two Reilly's in the early 1870's after exile to England).
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
I mention these two guns not because they are good buys but because of historical interest:

=====================================================
-- 35398 - New 1st gun at 295 Oxford Street


1) 35398 is now the earliest Reilly with 295 Oxford Street on the rib. I've redone the last few years of the Chronology twice in the last two months, first to account for a possible 14 month break between the closure of 277 Oxford Street February 1903 and opening of 295 Oxford Street May 1904. 35398 barely makes it into the new chronology for 1904...but it's there!! And second because of the 1911 gun made by Holloway....which forced a bulge of 65 guns having to be sold in 1911 as he reduced inventory in preparation for bankruptcy..reducing the numbers sold in the previous 5 years.
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.c...++5551+&refno=++162330&saletype=
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=====================================================
-- 134481 - Riggs gun with original Reilly case with an interesting rue du Faubourg label.


2). 134481. This is a Riggs gun. Holts simply will not accept my chronology and as a result is effectively engaging in malpractice by misadvertising those guns. It is embarrassing for Holts...their identifications are all over the place.

But this is interesting - I was hoping to finally see a Riggs case/trade label. Instead, the gun is housed in an original Reilly case with a label for 16, New Oxford Street apparently with 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint Honoré, Paris address on the right scroll work. The label itself is not common (6 are known) - it had to date from a very narrow time period early 1885 - early-mid 1886. (1884 London Exposition Medals indicate early 1885 as a back marker).
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.c...++5899C&refno=++166839&saletype=
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Here is a better example from SN 26680 - Scollops on the above label may have been added:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

I have been doing a good bit of reassessing on the time period that 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint Honoré, Paris was open and was going to put an academic analysis sort of post up on current thinking (as the book is readied for publication). Will post this later.
And by the way, the extant or identified Serial Numbered gun list on p.57 is now up over 500 guns and climbing, thanks to a lot of help from this board.

In addition, the history on p.54 has been extensively modified as historical ads and records were looked at a second time.
============ academic investigation - don't read unless you're into 1885 gun esoteria ================
-- Review of July 1885 closure of 2 rue Scribe, Paris
-- Review of what is known about 29 rue Faubourg, Saint-Honoré


I. July 1885: Closure of the 2 rue Scribe, Paris:

In late July 1885 rue Scribe was closed. The reasons for this are not known - hand made guns were being sold at a very high rate; it may have had to do with the departure of a long-time partner (possibly a M. Poirat? M. Poirat was the agent for Reilly in 1871, mentioned in French parliamentary records when Reilly tried to sell the stock of Chassepot rifles in Birmingham to the French Republic.).

Case/trade label before closure of rue Scribe: 16, New Oxford Street, 277 Oxford Street and 2 rue Scribe + 1867 Paris Exposition medals:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

The key indicator for adopting this closure date are the advertisements which appeared in the most popular London newspapers. In late July 1885 rue Scribe was mentioned - in early August 1885 it had disappeared from otherwise identical ads and from print in general.
. . . . .24 Jul 1885 Bell’s Life . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .08 Aug 1885. Bell’s Life
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

The last extant SN'd gun with rue Scribe is 27340, address on the rib being “New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris.” It is a 12 bore SxS top-lever, hammer-gun, shotgun (no photo).

II. 1885-1886: Possible satellite Paris address at 29 rue Faubourg, Saint-Honoré, Paris

Sometime circa late 1884 or early 1885 Reilly apparently opened a small satellite branch of 2 rue Scribe, Paris at 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honoré, Paris for a short time.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Six different gun cases with the above label have been found with this address. One such label appears on SN 26880, a gun dated to Feb 1885

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

However, this label also is found in a case housing SN22432, dated 1880 and bought by a man who died in 1882 (The label is loose- could have been added much later).

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

The rue du Faubourg labels are generally in the classic post 1861 Reilly format but are not scolloped. They feature the usual main 16, New Oxford Steet address with the 277 Oxford street branch; the rue du Faubourg address is located where 2 rue Scribe had been for 17 years. The labels illustrate the 1867 Paris medals in the upper left hand corner and the 1884 London international exposition medals in the right. This seemingly dates these labels and correspondingly the existance of this shop from late 1884 or early 1885.*122

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

There is an argument as to whether rue du Faubourg existed after Reilly closed 2 rue Scribe. The argument is summarized below:

. . .A. Evidence against the existance of rue du Faubourg after 31 July 1885 closure of 2 rue Scribe:

. . . . .1. No newspaper advertisements for this branch exist. It was a prestigious location - Coco Chanel's apartments were above it in another century. It should have been publicized by Reilly had it been more than a transient sales shop.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .2. No extant guns have thus far been found with this address on their ribs.

. . . . .3. After July 1885 there is no mention of “Paris” in any of the Reilly advertisements in the mass popular daily papers.

================ 29 rue du Faubourg - continued below =========
================ 29 rue du Faubourg - continued ===============

. . .B. Evidence for the existence of rue du Faubourg after July 1885.

. . . . .1. Location: In addition to very fashionable Paris shops, Some Parisian gun makers had factories/workshops/show rooms on rue du Faubourg. The road was also the heart of the English speaking community living in Paris during the “Belle Epoch.” Both the British and American Ambassadors' house were on the street. To open a sales-shop in that area would seem to be a logical Reilly commercial decision. (Pirlet built revolvers in that building in the photo - yes, that was a "factory.")

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .2. Guns with Paris: There is a matched pair of Reilly guns with 1886 serial numbers 27853, 27854 – i.e. after the closure of 2 rue Scribe - which have "Paris" on their barrels built on the Scott "triplex" system.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

And an 8 bore SN 28290 with “2 rue Scribe, Paris” remaining on the rib and with “Choke” on the flats (pre 1887):

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


. . . . . . .-- Counter argument:
The guns or barrels of the pair could have been labeled before the closure of 2 rue Scribe and used a year later. Certainly the 8 bore barrel was engraved before Jul 1885.

. . . . .3. 1886 advertisements: There are magazine advertisements stretching into 1886 for Reilly at "Paris."

. . . . . . . .Feb 1886 “Bradshaw Guide” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Jun 1886 “Freemason”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . .-- Counter argument: Some of these are long term advertisements that were not changed over a couple of years.

. . . . .4. Scroll work: New scroll work is found on the bottom of the rue du Faubourg label. This scroll work is almost (but not quite) identical to that found on the 16, New Oxford Street label which was used after the closure of rue Scribe and which has no Paris address at all. (Note the difference between "self extracting" on the Faubourg label and "ejector" on the "no Paris" label)

Top: . . . . Scroll work on pre-Jul 85 label with 16, 277 and rue Scribe
Middle:. . .Scroll work for 16, 277, rue du Faubourg label
Bottom:. . Scroll work on label with only 16 & 277/no Paris.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . .-- Counter argument: The scroll work on the rue du Faubourg label seems to precede that later used on the stand-alone 16, New Oxford Street label with no Paris address and is slightly different. Perhaps the rue du Faubourg label preceded the 16, New Oxford Street label.

. . . . .5. Signor Giuseppe Guidicini: A paid-for article appeared in the January 1886 London press touting a win at the Monte Carlo pigeon shoot by Italian champion pigeon shooter Guidicini using a Reilly with the rue du Faubourg address.*127

. . . . .28 Jan 1886, "Sportsman" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 Jan 1886, "Morning Post"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Monte Carlo was the most pretigeous international pigeon shooting event; Guidicini won it three times.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Whether the address was on the rib of his gun or on the trade/case label is unknown. Guidicini’s gun likely was built by Reilly in London at the beginning of the 1885 pigeon shooting season spring 1885, Monte Carlo being the last event of the 1885 shooting year. And, the question remains, "who placed those paid-for ads in four London Newspapers in late January, early February 1886?" It likely was Reilly which might indicate the retail store was still open at that time (or that Reilly still felt the need to have a "Paris connection").


. . . . . . .-- Counter argument:
The gun may have only had the London address on the rib and Guidicini took the rue du Faubourg shop address from the label. Spring 1885 as a construct date for the gun would leave open the possibility of rue du Faubourg closing in July 1885.

For now pending a review of Parisian property records, the existance of rue du Faubourg from circa early 1885 to early1886 will be presumed. The lack of advertising for the shop is perplexing, however, and this question will continue to be investigated. And this is a pretty weak supposition.

(OK OK...This is utterly pedantic...but pedantics also have their place and we were trying to date guns as precisely as possible when the whole enterprise started).
Re 2 rue Scribe and 29 rue du Faubourg: Commercial data exists in the archives of the Commune de Paris records per their website - it is not on-line.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Wrote them an email:

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Cher Monsieur ou chere madame,
Mon amis l’historian Dominique François m’a conseille de prendre contact avec vos services pour assurer la precision des informations pour mon livre sur un armurier Irlandais E.M. REILLY. Après l’Exposition Universelle de Paris de 1867, ou il a gagné la medaille d’or, il est devenu un “Arquebusier pour l’Empereur Napoleon III” (“Fournisseurs Brevette de S.M. l’Empereur”).
En Fevrier 1868 il a créé une société française “E.M. REILLY & CIE.” et a ouvert une armurerie a 2 rue Scribe, Paris. Je pense que cette armurerie a ete fermée en Juillet 1885.
Il est possible qu’il ait ouvert pendant quelques mois entre 1885-1886 une autre armurerie au 29, rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honoré, a Paris.
Vous serait-il possible de trouver confirmation de ces dates dans vos archives ainsi que les noms des gérants des deux armureries.
Je vous remerci de votre collaboration et vous prie de recevoir mes meilleurs salutations.
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Their response was not encouraging....I may have to travel to Paris:

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La salle de lecture des Archives de Paris est désormais ouverte au public les lundis de 13h30 à 17h30 et du mardi au vendredi de 9h30 à 17h30, sans rendez-vous et selon les conditions exposées en page "Actualités" de notre site web.
Le traitement des recherches à distance concerne des recherches pour des nécessités administratives et pour des documents non librement communicables en salle de lecture. Les informations délivrées sur notre site relatives aux recherches à distance restent valides et des outils d'aide vous permettent de mieux appréhender nos ressources, avant votre visite dans notre salle de lecture.
Les instruments de recherches numérisés y sont aussi accessibles, ainsi que plusieurs typologies de documents numérisés.
Ne surchargez pas notre messagerie, merci de votre compréhension.
Cordialement,
L’équipe des Archives de Paris

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Edit 28 November: I received a second negative response below and sent the below follow-on reply:

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Cher Monsieur,

Après des recherches approfondies dans nos fonds je n’ai pas trouvé de trace des deux sociétés de M. Reilly. Cela peut s’expliquer par le fait que l’enregistrement d’une société n’est pas obligatoire avant 1920. En effet, le créateur peut choisir de l’enregistrer au tribunal de commerce (ce n’est pas le cas ici) ou par acte notarié. La recherche dans ces fonds est plus compliquée car elle nécessite la date exacte de la création et non des tranches chronologiques assez larges comme celles fournies.

Je suis donc au regret de ne pouvoir plus vous aider,

Cordialement


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Chere Madame ;

Merci pour votre aimable réponse. Je crois qu'il y a des dossiers annuels sur quelles entreprises étaient dans quelles rues de Paris. Voici un exemple de votre site Web pour 1885.

1885
2 bobine
2 mi 3 87 : Liste alphabétique : A-Z
Professions A – Hôtels
2 mi 3 88 : Professions : HĂ´tels - Z
Liste des rue de Paris : A-Z
Seine

Pourrais-je demander à l'un de vos attachés de recherche de passer en revue les deux volumes pour 1885 et 1886. Pourraient-ils s'il vous plaît vérifier qui occupait le 2 rue Scribe et le 29 rue du
Faubourg, Saint Honoré pendant ces années. Ce serait d'une grande aide pour mes recherches et pour mon livre.

Merci pour votre aide.
======================================================================
Editing a section of the history-Reilly in early 1880's:


Lots of new bits of information...not the least of which the query about whether London gun makers made box locks. So this section of the history has been added to. Note: JPGBOX has reduced the size uploads. Bothersome in the extreme. (first paragraph re Reilly possibly making guns in the white for other gun dealers in the early 1830's will be expanded upon in a separate post).

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Reilly in the Early 1880's:

Reilly's business was booming and gun production topped 1000 a year. Reilly reportedly was making long guns for other London gun-makers. Note: there is a suspicion that with his large industrial spaces (by London terms) that he was doing this for many years - see the Reilly-Purdey kerfuffle from 1866. As an example:
. . .-- a James Beattie percussion gun made circa 1835 has been found with the locks labeled “Reilly,” a possible indication that Reilly made the gun in the white for Beattie, this in the very early years of Reilly making guns.
. . .-- In 1832 Reilly offered special deals for “country gun makers.”
. . .-- Wilkinson marketed at least on Green Bros Breech loader circa 1868; since Reilly was the sole manufacturer of the Green Bros patent, Reilly had to have made that gun for Wilkinson.

He also around this time allegedly (not confirmed) began importing cheap Belgian-made revolvers in parts which he assembled in his buildings, engraved and sold. (Reilly, like Trantor and others, possibly was involved with the Belgian manufacture and "assembly trade" much earlier...perhaps dating to as early as the 1850's).

In early 1880 Reilly adopted the boxlock (Anson & Deeley 1875 Patent) and began building them in significant numbers, apparently in marked contrast to other London gun makers. The boxlock looks to have been frowned on by London gunmakers for some reason, possibly as being "plebeian." Yet Reilly publicly embraced it. It fitted his anti-establishment style and his model for selling to the guys actually on the ground carrying their own guns. It may be that Reilly, always a gambler on technological innovation, decided that its simplicity and durability were the future of shotgunning, a conclusion reinforced by early 1880’s writings. However, at the same time Reilly was dramatically expanding serial numbered production from 650 to over 1000 a year and the A&D boxlock would certainly have simplified the manufacturing process. Either that or Reilly simply began to avail himself of Birmingham produced boxlock actions and finished them in London which would also be logical (as previously speculated).

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

The first surviving Reilly box-lock is SN 22482 (1880), a 12 gauge top-lever shotgun, A&D Patent use number 1156.*xxx Almost 30% of the surviving Reilly’s from 1881 to 1912, both rifles and shotguns, are boxlocks.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

In addition in January 1882 he advertised for the first time guns equipped with Whitworth compressed fluid steel barrels (originally an 1865 patent extended in 1879 for 5 years).*xxx
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

The first extant Reilly with a confirmed Whitworth barrel is SN 24365, a 12 gauge SxS pigeon gun with 31” barrels - top lever, side fences, low hammers, flat file cut rib. It is dated per the chart to 1882.*xxx
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

(There is a Reilly .500 SxS BPE rifle from 1876 SN 19953, which appears to have steel barrels; however they may be blued Damascus, the gun description being minimal.)
http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/64/lid/534
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

He exhibited at the 1882-83 Calcutta fair (a British Empire only affair) and won a medal and was highly praised for his exhibit at the 1884/85 London International Expositions where he again won medals.

Note there were three different international expositions in London in 1884-85; An exposition at Crystal Palace; the International Health Exposition of 1884; and the International Inventions Exposition of 1885. Reilly apparently won a gold medal at the Internation Health Exposition per the medals on his labels though why shotguns were exhibited there is unknown – he publicized them only as “London Exhibition 1884.”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Reilly also won a silver medal at the International Inventions Exposition in 1885 but did not publicize it; The Reilly exhibit at this exposition is described in Wyman.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Reilly guns figured very well in live pigeon shooting contests throughout the 1880's.*113
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=============== Continued below ======================
================ Continued from above =======================

Big game hunters in Africa used his guns and advertised the results including noted Victorian era African hunter and author Frederick Selous, Samual Baker and Henry Morton Stanley, the Welsh-American and perhaps the most famous of all African explorers, Dr. David Livingston (below):
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Henry Morton Stanley, the most famous African explorer of them all:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Sir Samuel Baker, the most famous Victorian hunter of all, of course, began using Reilly heavy rifles in the early 1850’s, had Reilly build explosive shells for him, and continued to use his Reilly connection to the end of his hunting life as previously mentioned. Excerpt from the The Rifle and the Hound, 1854 by Samuel Baker, reprinted in 1872:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
The next "History of Reilly" update will be footnoted. It will include picture proofs on the reasons for the conclusions arrived at - there are some 250 of these with articles, advertisements, pictures, background paintings, photos, personalities, streets, etc.

Here is a paragraph from the introduction of that history:

"The history includes analyses and some logical suppositions and conclusions. These are, however, supported by articles and advertisements and the history as now written is solidly sourced. It corrects or updates dozens of writings on the company most of them erroneous, including Brown's Vol III, Boothroyd, and just about every article written about Reilly in the last 50 years. Footnotes are provided for each paragraph, indeed each sentence, below. Challenges to this research should be as well documented, not just based on "urban legend."
Research that challenges long-held beliefs and the status quo usually gets brickbats, slings and arrows and there have been enough of these thrown at this line (to be expected). This Reilly .500 BPE SN 19954 just sold. The vendor graciously mentioned the research done here. This is gratifying. Thanks. (Note: This gun may be the first extant Reilly with a top lever.)
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/910907588

Provenance: The Malcolm King Collection; Sold by Bonhams at London, Knightsbridge as lot number 64 on April 2nd, 2008; Thanks to Gene Williams for conducting the painstaking research into E.M. Reilly's history, serial numbers, and production chronology.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Argo44, you should have jockeyed to be the new custodian of that 500 BPE??

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
The history on p.54 has been updated with all the extra information from above. It's gotten really long...35-40 pages now if it were printed out..and it goes into detail - probably too much for a book - re arguments for and against on controversial sections. That'll be whittled down in the final draft for publishers but, in view of the fact that this study is calling into question embedded preconceptions, I felt this detail was needed. It is still a good read and as a side benefit will acquaint a reader with a cursory outline of the history of UK gunmaking in the 19th century. It will be refined as other information becomes available of course.

Thanks to this board for the help including the criticism (which provoked and forced a doubledown on some research elements that never would have been looked at) and professional/peer review (likewise)...without which a lot of this data would not have come to light.
==========================================================
Known Reilly shop managers
A follow-up on previous peer-review criticisms of the Reilly History:


In spite of claims from some very knowledgeable contributors on this board, shop managers for London gun makers in the 19th century are not well known except perhaps for the most prestigious of them...Joseph Manton's protégés being the most prominent. There are no Reilly records. However, based on London newspaper articles we're now up to the names of 5 shop managers for Reilly from 1855-1898 including one, the earliest (1855) with a French name (if this is a French name - now unlikely), interestingly just when Reilly began to make center-break breech loaders).

1855. . . .- "Le Gerant" - the contact at the Reilly shop listed in an advertisement for buying a used rifle on consignment. ("Le GĂ©rant" of course means "the manager" in French....thus this may not be a name at all..just another expression of Reilly's francophilia - and that on the eve of the Lefaucheaux center-break pin-fire revolution in UK may be in-and-of itself telling).
1860-65 . - "John Baker" - registered the patent for the 1861 Reilly shell crimper and testified at fraud hearings.
1870 . . . - "Francis Davis" - testified for Reilly at the 1870 hearings for violating UK neutrality in the Franco-Prussian war
1882-85 . - "Ruben Hambling" - likely started out with Reilly in the late 1850's - ran his own gun shop in the midlands than back to Reilly
1897-98 . - "James Curtis" - Testified in a trial re the purchase of a Reilly revolver by an Irish terrorist.

and

1871 . . . .- "M. Poirat" - manager of Reilly store at 2 rue Scribe, Paris, who tried to convince the new 3rd Republic to buy 6,000 Chessapot rifles stored in Birmingham from Reilly (obviously a salesman, not a technician).

There are several young professionals also mentioned in articles - it seems Reilly carefully selected and trained his young apprentices well.
1858-59 . .- "Mr. Bennett," who carefully loaded rounds for the guns used in "The Field" trials of 1858 and 1859.
1862 . . . .- "Mr. McNamara" who was responsible for guiding visitors through the Reilly 1862 London World's Fair exhibit.

It's tough sledding to find more information about these men. Hambling at least has a history - Baker may be identical to a later gun maker in Birmingham (1880's). Reilly was not a prestigious maker - he was the closest thing London had to a gun "factory" - and the gun trade at the time was neither romantic nor artistic to those working on the benches...nor were these men likely to write books.

Plus the gun trade and employment in it was highly cyclical...when a firm was riding high....it added workers.. and vice versa. This is well documented in books on the Birmingham gun trade perviously posted above.
I spent some time sitting with Macnab Fine Firearms at the Southern. Very good people, knowledgeable and connected to Toby Barclay. They are advertising this 1896 Reilly shotgun SN 34585 refurbished by Toby.
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...gun-with-30-barrels.cfm?gun_id=101778310

What's interesting for this line is the commentary, acceptance and promulgation of the research done here on Reilly:

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E.M. Reilly & Co. 12 Bore Bar-Action Hammergun with 30” Barrels

Description:
*** JUST IN FROM THE UK *** E M Reilly & Co. are often thought of as merely a retailer of guns made in the trade but recent research by a historian from the USA has shown that they were a gunmaker in the truest sense of the word, producing a formidable range of firearms from their â€manufactory’ in and around the then mainly residential area of London’s Oxford Street. . . . . .
Oh Mcnabs said that? Oh well it’s settled then. It looks like Reilly’s did, after all employ 300+ gunmakers (that nobody has ever met or known) and they made all sorts of breech loading shotguns off of about 10 to 15 different actions, patents, etc. What an extremely skilled work force to produce so many different firearms in their own factory.
I thought it was ridiculous and far fetched….but now, since Mcnabs says Reilly did in fact manufacture all of these guns bearing the Reilly name, even guns that are known to have ONLY been completely built by 1 particular factory, I suppose the whole thing is settled isn’t it.

Or not. Nice try Gene. Press on.
We've been down this road before.
-- I dated the Reilly guns and labels. No one disputes the validity of that chart that I know of.
-- In the process using evidence from thousands of 19th century ads and articles, wrote the history as best it can be written. Can't do much more than that.

Some gun aficionados like it - Cyril Adams before he died and Donald Dallas for two. Some don't - Dustin doesn't.
Oh, there’s plenty more than just Me, Gene. Believe that.
Originally Posted by LeFusil
Oh Mcnabs said that? Oh well it’s settled then. It looks like Reilly’s did, after all employ 300+ gunmakers (that nobody has ever met or known) and they made all sorts of breech loading shotguns off of about 10 to 15 different actions, patents, etc. What an extremely skilled work force to produce so many different firearms in their own factory.
I thought it was ridiculous and far fetched….but now, since Mcnabs says Reilly did in fact manufacture all of these guns bearing the Reilly name, even guns that are known to have ONLY been completely built by 1 particular factory, I suppose the whole thing is settled isn’t it.

Or not. Nice try Gene. Press on.

I keep returning to this Thread hoping to finally see the Holy Grail that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that a Reilly factory actually built all of these guns This should be relatively easy to settle. All we need is some actual photographs of actual Reilly workers in the alleged "manufactory" filing actions, making barrels, inletting gunstocks, assembling guns, etc. We have such photographs from other gunmakers... but nothing from Reilly.

We also have Census data from the cities where various gunmakers were centered. We have listings of residents that tell us where and when they were employed at these gunmakers, and this data quite often lists their occupation or gunmaking specialty. But so far, we haven't seen that sort of proof pertaining to Reilly gunmaking employees.

It just seems rather odd that gun writers and gun experts for well over a century have all considered Reilly as a retailer of firearms and sporting goods, and not a manufacturer. Yet these same people had no problem recognizing firms like Purdey, Boss, Holland & Holland, and hundreds of other companies both large and small as actual gunmakers. One wonders why all of these people neglected to recognize Reilly as a notable manufacturer of a large quantity of such a diverse product line consisting of shotguns, rifles, handguns, cane guns, etc.??? I'm willing to be convinced. But terms like "perhaps", "possibly", "may have", etc. aren't doing it for me, and neither are advertising claims. We have all seen gun advertisements that made wild claims about firearms that defied the laws of physics by shooting farther, harder, or with far less recoil than their competitors. How many people claim to have invented choke boring? However, a well timed "donation" could serve to help moderate or censor the skepticism I share with Dustin right into nonexistence. It seems to work well for a few others here.
Are there any records with the worshipful company of gunmakers on the apprenticeship at Reilly or steel or wood consumption with 300 employees it would seem there would be some paper trail.at least on times of trouble published layoffs?published rehire ?material shortages? Liquidation of assets ?equipment purchases?news paper engravings of the premises.i know most large company's were shameless self promoters good luck with you research.mc
The Ghost of Reilly and his imaginary 300 employees lives on.
=============================================================

Thank you all for the comments. First, could I ask that you all please reread the history on p.54, the whole thing...not just select portions. A lot of the history has to do with dating the Reilly guns - moves to new shops, changes in labels, taking on new partners, etc. And where it is controversial I say so.

If you have questions on the sourcing of a particular sentence please post it here and I'll answer why I wrote the conclusions as I did. This will only make it better.

In the meantime I'm working on an "illustrated" version of the history. It will have "footnote markers" which will reference all the source materials, and include historical photos to put things into context along with comments on a separate document. Both could be opened and a reader can toggle back and forth between them which might explain things a bit better. Most of these points have been addressed at one time or another; however, this is a long line and it's hard to go back through the whole thing.

A couple of the above comments were addressed before:

-- Reilly was not a member of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers. There are references to his guns being proofed there and since virtually all Reilly guns were proofed in London, not a surprise.

-- Employment at Gun makers in the 1800's was highly cyclical. Most large Birmingham gunmakers could not tell you how many workers were employed at any one time. There are no Reilly records....none.

-- I have looked at sales advertisements for barrel borers, foot lathes, etc, especially in 1897 when he closed 16 New Oxford Street and Feb 1903 when he closed 277 Oxford street. But it is too wide a category to turn up anything definitive. There is nothing like the London press article on the bankruptcy sale of Manton's stock and tools from 1826.

--The 1851 census listed the number of firms employing x amount of workers in London and this was used in some sociological pieces (previously posted). Most London companies were quite small. I have been unable, however to identify the details. There may be more information available someplace. But I doubt it will be useful.

-- As for the 1861, 71, 81 census, until 1891 it was pretty rudimentary. It asked "occupation" but not where a person worked. If you were an employer it asked how may workers you employed. That's it. You either accept the 1881 census data as given at that moment to the census taker or reject it. If you reject the Reilly data, then you have to reject just about all the other employers who responded. I've addressed this several times with examples...especially the search for a couple of Reilly's shop managers John Baker (1861) and Ruben Hambling (1881).

-- There are engravings and photographs of Reilly's buildings in London just not identifying them as such. I'm working with the Paris archives to pin down 2 rue Scribe and 29 rue du Faubourg. The Reilly building at 277 Oxford street was much taller than the current building. Reilly's son Montegu fell or jumped from the top story and killed himself in 1895. Reilly actually lived on the top floor of the building. J.C. was a property owner and had his own house when he was running the company.
. . . . .-- And by the way Purdey has ZERO photos of their workshop, sales shop and administrative office at 314 1/2 Oxford Street. I forwarded to them a photo of the street which at least sort of shows what the building looked like. And they were there for 50 years till 1881.

-- The Reilly advertisements are not "hyped." They are, however, filled with information if you read them carefully.

-- There is not one (1) article from the 19th century that identifies Reilly as a "retailer." None. Zero. On the contrary some of the most famous hunters and explorers used his guns and endorsed them; "The Field" visited his stores and shooting gallery and tested his guns. You have to go up to the 1950's to start to find stuff about Reilly being a "retailer" - and as stated in the introduction, this likely grew out of Riggs having bought the name in 1922.

Please read the history again. If you have doubts, that's fine - list them in detail. I'm continuing to work on various aspects but am still pretty proud of what has been accomplished so far.
You should be proud, Gene. You’ve done one heck of a job trying to date and make sense of your beloved Reilly’s serial numbers and trade labels. You should absolutely be proud of that work. Kudos to you for that, seriously.

You have not provided one bit of empirical evidence that proves that Reilly made any guns, shotguns, pistols, etc during what we refer to as “The Golden Age” of British gunmaking. Sorry. It just hasn’t happened for you. Even Ray Charles can see that. Every time you sound off about Reilly being a Golden era gunmaker, you site completely circumstantial evidence to prove your point. It’s not convincing anyone, least of all anyone with a clue how the trade operated at that time.
Not one actual maker could’ve possibly made so many iterations of various action designs under one roof with the exception of a massive concern like BSA, Midlands, etc.
Read that last sentence again, Gene. No way Reilly could’ve done that. Not even Greener or W&S made that many different designs. Do you understand that??? Do understand the amount of expertise that would require? Specialist to set up machines and tooling to produce this action or that action. Impossible. Reilly’s didn’t do that. I highly doubt they even finished off barreled actions in the white. You know of no names of any specialist. Not a stocker. Actioner. Barrel filer. Finishers. Not one trade person person ever claiming to have learned their trade or even being employed by Reilly. That, Gene, is a huge red flag.

The names you listed above, not one of those names are associated with being an actual gunmaker or specialist in any part of the gunmaking trade. Shop managers? Walmart & Target have those too. Cartridge loader? Lots of stores, retailers, gun making shops loaded their own cartridges in those days. That’s not surprising.
Originally Posted by Argo44
There are no Reilly records.

And there are no Syracuse Lefever records either. The factory records were lost during or after the move to Ithaca N.Y., after the sale of the gun manufacturing business by the Durston family in 1915. Yes, the Lefever name was sold to Ithaca Gun Co. too.

However, as a long-time Lefever collector, I have no doubt that Dan Lefever actually built guns. Nobody doubts it. We know that he apprenticed under famed N.Y. gunsmith and gun maker William Billinghurst in Canandaigua, N.Y. beginning in 1848. We know that he went into business for himself in Auburn, N.Y. in 1853. We know that he later partnered with J.A. Ellis and built percussion guns in Canandaigua around 1862.

We also know that Dan later partnered with F.S. Dangerfield, L. Barber, and John Nichols. They built guns and employed people to help them build guns. They even printed catalogs of the guns they would build for their customers. We know there were at least a dozen different catalogs of guns built by Dan Lefever, or he and his partners. We even have a copy of the partnership agreement between Lefever and Nichols. We know about his departure after being forced out of his own company in 1901, and we know that he went on to build the Lefever crossbolt boxlock shotgun in Syracuse, Defiance, Ohio, and Bowling Green, Ohio until his death in 1906. Nobody has ever encountered any surviving records from those three short-lived gun companies either.

Although Lefever built over 60,000 guns in Syracuse, the Lefever Arms Co. never employed anywhere near 300 men. Total employment in 1890 was only 70 employees. Yet we know a lot of their names.

In the Robert Elliot books, we have photographs of the Lefever Arms Company, and photos of their employees. We have photos of them working at their machines, and can even read the names of employees on a time board. We have correspondence from Dan Lefever describing the rib matting machine he designed and built, and we have his description of the tragic fire that destroyed much of his building and equipment. We have surviving correspondence between the Company and customers, and we have surviving original blank and completed order forms for the guns. We know that Dan Lefever's sons were among his gunmaking employees, and we know that his son Frank went on to work to produce the Hollenbeck Drilling at the THREE BARREL GUN COMPANY of Wheeling, West Virginia. We also know that he later worked for Daisy Airgun Co., and designed the Daisy BB pumpgun.

Hard to believe that all this compelling evidence, and more, survived 120-130 years or more in places like Syracuse, Ithaca, Canandaigua, etc. But there is so little about E.M. Reilly being an actual gunmaker in such a refined, organized, and civilized place like London. .

So although there are no surviving factory records from the Lefever Arms Co. of Syracuse, N.Y., nobody doubts or questions whether they were actual gunmakers (and producers of bicycle chains). And although there has been a lot of misinformation printed about total production of Lefever shotguns assembled by Ithaca Gun Co., and the quantity of Syracuse Lefever guns built out of serial number sequence, even by the LACA, nobody ever even thought that Dan Lefever was nothing but a retailer who merely sold guns built by others. Nobody needs to rely upon conjecture or highlighting a few words in old advertisements to prove that Dan Lefever was a real Gunmaker.
Originally Posted by LeFusil
You should be proud, Gene. You’ve done one heck of a job trying to date and make sense of your beloved Reilly’s serial numbers and trade labels. You should absolutely be proud of that work. Kudos to you for that, seriously.

You have not provided one bit of empirical evidence that proves that Reilly made any guns, shotguns, pistols, etc during what we refer to as “The Golden Age” of British gunmaking. Sorry. It just hasn’t happened for you. Even Ray Charles can see that. Every time you sound off about Reilly being a Golden era gunmaker, you site completely circumstantial evidence to prove your point. It’s not convincing anyone, least of all anyone with a clue how the trade operated at that time.
Not one actual maker could’ve possibly made so many iterations of various action designs under one roof with the exception of a massive concern like BSA, Midlands, etc.
Read that last sentence again, Gene. No way Reilly could’ve done that. Not even Greener or W&S made that many different designs. Do you understand that??? Do understand the amount of expertise that would require? Specialist to set up machines and tooling to produce this action or that action. Impossible. Reilly’s didn’t do that. I highly doubt they even finished off barreled actions in the white. You know of no names of any specialist. Not a stocker. Actioner. Barrel filer. Finishers. Not one trade person person ever claiming to have learned their trade or even being employed by Reilly. That, Gene, is a huge red flag.

The names you listed above, not one of those names are associated with being an actual gunmaker or specialist in any part of the gunmaking trade. Shop managers? Walmart & Target have those too. Cartridge loader? Lots of stores, retailers, gun making shops loaded their own cartridges in those days. That’s not surprising.

The hOax lives on.
Originally Posted by HomelessjOe
Originally Posted by LeFusil
You should be proud, Gene. You’ve done one heck of a job trying to date and make sense of your beloved Reilly’s serial numbers and trade labels. You should absolutely be proud of that work. Kudos to you for that, seriously.

You have not provided one bit of empirical evidence that proves that Reilly made any guns, shotguns, pistols, etc during what we refer to as “The Golden Age” of British gunmaking. Sorry. It just hasn’t happened for you. Even Ray Charles can see that. Every time you sound off about Reilly being a Golden era gunmaker, you site completely circumstantial evidence to prove your point. It’s not convincing anyone, least of all anyone with a clue how the trade operated at that time.
Not one actual maker could’ve possibly made so many iterations of various action designs under one roof with the exception of a massive concern like BSA, Midlands, etc.
Read that last sentence again, Gene. No way Reilly could’ve done that. Not even Greener or W&S made that many different designs. Do you understand that??? Do understand the amount of expertise that would require? Specialist to set up machines and tooling to produce this action or that action. Impossible. Reilly’s didn’t do that. I highly doubt they even finished off barreled actions in the white. You know of no names of any specialist. Not a stocker. Actioner. Barrel filer. Finishers. Not one trade person person ever claiming to have learned their trade or even being employed by Reilly. That, Gene, is a huge red flag.

The names you listed above, not one of those names are associated with being an actual gunmaker or specialist in any part of the gunmaking trade. Shop managers? Walmart & Target have those too. Cartridge loader? Lots of stores, retailers, gun making shops loaded their own cartridges in those days. That’s not surprising.

The hOax lives on.

Nah. More like a Lost Cause. An insane attempt to re-write history.


______________________________________
What a waste. All that time spent. Could’ve been playing golf.
I'll address Dustin's point, that Reilly could not make that many different long guns, in a little while.

Dustin, "Ruben Hambling" likely started with Reilly in the late 1850's, later ran his own gun shop in the midlands, before he went back to Reilly - check out IGC.
And what exactly did Mr. Hambling do at Reilly? What kind of gun shop did Mr Hambling run in the midlands? Where was Mr. Hambling apprenticed? Who did Mr. Hambling train? Was he a specialist of some sort? Barrels? Finisher? Actioner? Stocker? Or was he a specialist in something like.. retail? Sales? Was he a trained gunmaker? Trained in what discipline? Lots of stuff unanswered. These are things you as the researcher need to spell out with facts, not conjecture.

You bring up one guy to prove your point, Gene. One guy, no matter what his skill set is, is not going to posses the skills to set up the all the machines and tooling to manufacture that many different designs of guns, pistols, rifles, swords, knives, cases, etc. It’s just impossible, Gene. It’s about the most impractical idea as well. Do you have any idea how large a factory like that would have to be to produce so much weaponry and house 300+ employees? Take a look at the size of W&C Scott, W&S, Midlands, BSA, etc. those were ginormous factories. Reilly would’ve had to have been as big or bigger. They absolutely were NOT that massive. See what we’re getting at here…..Reilly was not that big, Gene.
I can't shed light on the Reilly question, other than to say Reilly was amongst those building the first breech-loaders (with Lang and Blanch) before the Birmingham crowd got involved. In any case, output was small at that point, for everyone concerned.

On the matter of Reuben Hambling, he was a gunmaker, of that I have no doubt. Born in 1833 in Blackawton, Devon, he apprenticed under his father, William Bartlett Hambling. He married in London in 1858, had a daughter there in 1861, and was listed in the 1861 census. He was most likely working as a journeyman for a London gunmaker, name unknown. He was in Manchester from 1865-1869, with his own shop at 27 New Bailey Street, Salford. He may have occupied another address for a time, on Bexley Street. He then moved to High Wycombe northwest of London around 1872 and lived for a time in Brighton (1874-1875), possibly working with his brother William, another gunmaker. From at least 1884-1885 he lived in Paddington, London, on Ashmore Rd. This may have been the time when he was employed by Reilly. After this, he moved to Ashford in Kent, with a business at 41 New Street. He lived at number 39. According to the 1891 census his son, Roger, was apprenticed to him. Reuben Hambling died on 12 December 1891. His son continued the business until 1894.

I realize there are a lot of gaps and maybes when trying to pin down individuals in Victorian Britain, more so when dealing with working-class men and not royalty or celebrities. But between census data, newspaper accounts, business records, and genealogies, at least a fuzzy picture emerges. Oh, and there are guns. Here is a bar-in-wood game gun signed Reuben Hambling:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Nothing about Mr. Hambling building actual guns for Reilly though, right? So in reality, we have NO clue as to what Mr. Hambling did or didn’t do at this so called Reilly gun factory during the 1880’s to the 1890’s. He could’ve been doing repairs? Selling guns? A staff professional to help clients order guns in? Any number of jobs he could’ve done there.

A fuzzy picture. You got that right.
I don't know whether E.M. Reilly was a maker or a merchant. My first British double was a Reilly boxlock I acquired from for sale ad here back in the '90's. I inquired here at the time and the prevailing wisdom seemed to be that Reilly wasn't a maker. Our friend Gene has done a yeoman's task of investigation and has been kind enough to share his work with all of us. While I appreciate his work, I cannot yet agree with is conclusion which is counter to the historic opinion on Reilly. I think E.M. Reilly was for his time the epidemy of the tradition of the British gun trade as a multi-layered combination of outworker craftsmen and sales companies whose names appeared on the guns of the period. With, of course a few actual manufacturers whose names and bonafides have traditionally been accepted in the business...Geo
Dunno if this experiment has been discussed before but here goes:
Quote
It is an unfortunate circumstance that no pistol, unless enormously heavy, could be made to fire the Martini-Henry ammunition, the recoil being so great that no man's wrist could stand it. Mr. Reilly, the gunmaker, I understand, tried it, and the man's wrist was nearly broken.
[Journal of the Royal United Service Institution, Volume 22, 1879]
Markus
I would like to address two points, one by Dustin and one by George. And this is meant to be a conversation, not a confrontation. We're all trying to advance the knowledge of UK gunmakers.

1) Re Dustin's point, "How was it possible for Reilly to make" so many different type guns?"

. . .A. The idea for an answer came from the judge in the 1893 Westley-Richards vs Perks patent infringement lawsuit. The judge, commenting on the ejector, essentially said, "Any competent gunsmith could make it."

. . .B. And that's the point. Simply put, presumably once a competent gunmaker had a template and the measurements for a patented gun or action or other system and made one gun under license, making additional guns should not be difficult. For instance W-R rifles were made in the 1860's under license by many gunmakers. There is nothing inherently difficult about producing a range of weapons if you have the tools and measurements on hand.

. . .C. Reilly was not tooling up a factory for a run of 10,000 guns, He was making from 8 to 12 serial numbered guns a week on average and these were certainly mostly hand-made.

. . .D. In addition, I reviewed the extant Reilly's from 1858-1866, one of the most dynamic period of British gunmaking. I can identify 8 types of long guns he serial numbered (see p. 57):
-- Single and double-barrel percussion sporting guns and rifles
-- Enfield rifle muskets
-- Jacob patent SxS muzzle loader rifles (no extant copies but mentioned in ads and articles)
-- Terry patent breech loader rifles (no extant copies but mentioned in ads and articles)
-- Prince patent breech loading rifles
-- Green patent breech loading rifles (exclusive manufacturing rights)
-- Snider-Enfield breech loading rifles
-- SxS and single barrel center-break pin-fires - rifles and shotguns. Center-fire examples just eek into this time period.

This is not much different what what any other gunmaker in London was making. And to clarify, the Green Bros Patent and the Snider were essentially Enfield muskets with a breech screwed onto the barrel.

So I don't believe Dustin's assertion is valid.

2). Re George's mention of "historic opinion" on Reilly. I am curious about when this opinion was promulgated and by whom? I can find no mention of Reilly being a retailer anywhere in the British press from 1828 to 1912. And no mention afterwards until possibly the 1980's. On the contrary the record is rife with calling him a gun maker and this done by very credible witnesses. So, is the "historic opinion" really historic? Is it accurate? (The IGC history of Reilly from 2002 also mentioned that he made guns; I don't visit the site after some unpleasantness). If anyone can find an early reference to the term "retailer" applied to Reilly, would much appreciate your posting it here.

Dustin knows a heck of a lot about English guns and I have a great deal of respect for his knowledge. And, we've conversed enough for me to know I am not going to change his mind. That's fine. However, I would like to add that in looking at every existing detail on the Reilly company over 90 years of existence, the conclusion is unmistakable - that he had to be making his own guns - the facts cannot be folded, spindled and mashed to come to any other conclusion. So I'm unlikely to change mine.

Whatever I've done my best on this research. If it's not acceptable to some, that's life. I'll continue to look into the topic. More information always turns up.
I don’t believe that your assertions, presumptions and theories regarding Reilly’s building of modern, breech loading, golden age weapons is at all convincing, valid or acceptable.
It’s almost offensive to unbiased persons following this thread that you continue to presume with such scant, inconclusive, non empirical evidence that your extremely biased interpretation of your own research as facts and that the case is closed. It’s more than obvious that that’s not the case, you have not at all provided that smoking gun. It’s all conjecture and theory.

If you seriously believe that Reilly produced that many variations of boxlocks, sidelocks, swords, rifles, pistols, walking canes, gun cases, etc entirely in their “factory” in London then you seriously have no idea of the magnitude of that manufacturing operation would be. They would’ve needed a factory the size of W&C Scott’s or bigger. Like I said earlier, their factory would’ve had to have more skilled workers than any factory in London and even most in the midlands. We all know, that wasn’t the case.



“ There is nothing inherently difficult about producing a range of weapons if you have the tools and measurements on hand.”

This has to be the most ridiculous statement you’ve ever made. How absolutely ignorant!!! That statement really takes any credibility you might have had away.
You have ZERO clue regarding the manufacture of a weapon of this era.
Hand your 100% Scott built (Scott & Baker patent action) Reilly to a modern machinist and have him build you another one….I’m sure he’ll be able to make you one after he takes a few measurements and sets up his CNC. Ya Right. Call Galazans and ask them to make you a Scott triplex or a Westley C-bolt Gun. I’m sure they’ll tell you how simple it is to manufacture. They can change their machines back over to make their own guns when they get done fulfilling your order.
You see how ridiculous it sounds, Gene? Everyone else does.
I hate to beat a dead horse but I have two greener a&d action shotguns made 1878 and 1886 as I said both marked ww greener but under the bottom plate is j brazier why didn't greener just take some measurements and build the guns?why didn't greener expand production hire people and build the guns i know two guns do not make conclusive proof but it dose show it was easier to buy a different actions gun then build it mabey greener was to busy and bought them to fill a need
Sigh, more disinformation. It would help if what I wrote would just be read.

I am talking about Serial Numbered guns above.
-- Reilly never claimed to make pistols after 1837.
-- He engraved and sold a lot of rifles and shotguns but unless they are serial numbered he did not make them. For instance he put his name on 6000 Reilly-Comblain's...not one was serial numbered.
-- There is a Reilly "sword bayonet" for a Jacob's rifle...but it has another maker's name on it as well. I don't think he made them.
-- There are no other makers' names, extraneous manufacturing marks, etc. on Reilly SN'd guns from the 1860's - with the exception of one pin-fire with S.Breedon (Birmingham center-break lock maker after 1861) on the action and I've discussed that gun. There is one with a Joseph Brazier action - he advertised this option for an additional ÂŁ5.

So Dustin, in your theory you'll have to account for why this is and what is the difference between serial numbered and non-serial numbered guns. You need to try reading what's on paper and address that not something you've created out of whole cloth.

As for post 1880 when Reilly expanded production to over 1000 a year and began seriously marketing boxlocks...I have that caveated. I have flat out said that it's quite likely he began using actions from Birmingham for his boxlocks and if so for the Scott triplex actions as well like my Reilly 16 bore. But I also said, there are no extraneous marks, initials, names on these guns that I've seen or been told about or have found and Scott it seems always found a way to put a mark on his guns.

And I've asked a question that has not been answered. How can you guarantee that a boxlock action was made in Birmingham? Oh, "everybody says it?" Or, "it will have workers' initials on it?" So, If a boxlock does not have workers' initials etc on it, was it made elsewhere? What are the definitive markers? If a boxlock action were made in London how would you know? This is the type of thing I'm interested in. John Cambell wrote a recent well researched book on boxlocks which I've ordered.

I pay attention to what Dustin says. But here's a request:
-- Please try and keep the discourse civil - personal insults do not advance a case and actually are pretty childish.
-- Read what I've written in the history not what you think has been written, note the sentences you have a problem with and I'll let you know why I wrote it that way.
-- And please don't set up straw men - it just makes the dialog courser.
Originally Posted by lonesome roads
Originally Posted by HomelessjOe
Originally Posted by LeFusil
You should be proud, Gene. You’ve done one heck of a job trying to date and make sense of your beloved Reilly’s serial numbers and trade labels. You should absolutely be proud of that work. Kudos to you for that, seriously.

You have not provided one bit of empirical evidence that proves that Reilly made any guns, shotguns, pistols, etc during what we refer to as “The Golden Age” of British gunmaking. Sorry. It just hasn’t happened for you. .

The hOax lives on.

Nah. More like a Lost Cause. An insane attempt to re-write history.
______________________________________
What a waste. All that time spent. Could’ve been playing golf.

Believing a lie has drove more than one man insane.....
===============================================================
How to conduct an intellectual inquiry - where I stand


I want to return to the above because the “debate” over Reilly has gone off track and I have personally taken a good bit of guff. Here is an analysis of the argumentation:

-- A group of gun connoisseurs has stated that “historically” Reilly was known only as a retailer. Anyone challenging this view must “prove” that Reilly was more than this and this proof must be definitive.
. . . . . . .This is quite simply anti-intellectual to its core. It is “I am right and you are wrong until you prove you are not wrong” dogma. There is not one truly intellectual investigation of anything that can start off with the conclusion as a given.

-- The second group began this line with a plain statement of facts: “J.C. Reilly, a jeweler by trade, began selling guns at his shop at High Holborn sometime between 1826 and 1828." This type of observation is similar to the start of any philosophical or intellectual endeavor, noticing a fact and wondering "why?" "how?" "what?" Then the investigation, based on the evidence, illuminated over the course of 5 years of research:
. . . – what type of guns he sold
. . . – how many he sold
. . . – what was his business model
. . . – what other lines of revenue did the company pursue, etc.
. . . – the fact that he made guns as well as sold retail, wholesale, including what types, etc.
. . . – It identified his market and his customers
. . . - It dated the serial numbered guns, and the labels….etc.

. . . - ALL the source materials were original from the 19th century - early 20th century.....none were from secondary sources or "oral legend."
. . . - The source materials and research were published on this line every step of the way.


. . . . . . . .This intellectual exercise, the research into Reilly, did exactly what such an investigation was supposed to do and it was conducted in exactly the way it should have been. It started with a simple goal - to date the Reilly guns. It then followed the evidence and clues which were uncovered. And the history was finally written by putting these together in the most logical way possible. It was refined as additional information was found and per appropriate comments from peer review.

I cannot accept the proposition that “historically” Reilly was only a “retailer,” when there is absolutely nothing "historical" about that assertion. Nor should gun scholars and students of guns.

To sum up: This history is the most complete one on Reilly that is available. It’s conclusions are based on the best possible original-source, historical evidence and analysis. There are places where some facts are still unclear and awaiting additional information. But, that is the fundamental truth about this research and it is the way any intellectual exercise should be conducted.
=======================================================
E.M. Reilly "Carpathe Rifle"


I ran across this Christies 1997 ad for a Reilly "Carpathe Rifle" - SN 32845 would date to 1893 (no pictures):
https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-297695
A RARE 7 X 57(R) MM SINGLE-SHOT SIDELOCK NON-EJECTOR CARPATHE-RIFLE BY E.M. REILLY, NO. 32845
Carved serpentine detonating, best foliate-scroll engraving, bright and reblued finish, well-figured stock with pistolgrip, sling-eye, horn-capped forend, the barrel (converted to 7x57) with matt top and open-sights
Weight: 7lb. 3½oz., 14½in. stock, 25½in. barrel, nitro proof

What is a Carpathe Rifle? It looks like just a single barrel, centerbreak, center-fire rifle. There is no info on the internet. There is one ad for a Holland & Holland "Carpathe Rifle" pictured below dating to 1895:
https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-1296806

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Gene,

The Carpatinian mountains, then in the heart of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire were a favourite stalking ground for Imperial and noble hunters who often favoured light single shot stalking rifles for hunting that might involve a lot of uphill climbing.

If in break open configuration they were and are known as kipplauf.

I am not sure if they were known at the time as Carpathian rifles, or whether that is a term coined by modern auctioneers.

I suspect that the Reilly would have started life as either a .303 or possibly a .256 Mannlicher (6.5 x53R) before being relined or bored out to 7x57R.

The Holland and Holland you show is similar to one in .303 now in The Guards Museum, that was fitted with a scope by Holland’s and given to the Irish Guards. Their RSM used it to deadly effect on the Western Front in 1915.
Maybe a question for Jani, but it appears that the term >>Carpathe<< is a London term for single shot stalker under a Anson & Deeley Body Action, sidelock, whatever platform.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
Fanzoj is turning them out, but, like as mentioned above, they are the „Kipplauf“ platform:

https://fanzoj.com/collection/single-shot-rifles/

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
Thanks. Parabola's identification seems spot on. I wondered if this were a Christies specific term. But still curious about what this is: "Carved serpentine detonating," Both ads have the same thing. What is a "detonating"
It’s an old school term referring to the breech or fences of a break action gun.
Nowadays in Central Europe "KarpatenbĂĽchse" seems to be another, romantic or nostalgic - and commercial - name for a Kipplauf SS rifle, usually a short Stutzen, such as Merkel's K4: https://www.jagdzeit.de/artikel/deutschland-k4-merkels-karpatenbuchse-ausgabe-39

But in my mind, and in prewar catalogs such as GebrĂĽder Merkel if I remember correctly the meaning is a light moutain rifle with a rather longish barrel and 3/4 stock (inbetween halfstock and fullstock).

With kind regards
Jani
Prewar KarpathenbĂĽchse: https://www.abebooks.com/first-edit...ikel/21360137534/bd#&gid=1&pid=5

With kind regards,
Jani

P.S.:-bĂĽchse = rifle
Many thanks Jani for looking @ this & your precise input.

Serbus Jani.


lep pozdrav,


Raimey
rse
You are very welcome, Raimey.

Serbus & Lep pozdrav,

Jani
"Ask and you shall receive." Thanks all.
As I'm compiling a bit more data, here is a reminder of what this sort of research can accomplish:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=596554&page=1

I'll repost the key part of the above which is apt:

Quote:
"I'd just like to add a plug for scholarship.

"It's so easy now to say about Reilly that this label was from this period; this gun is dated this year; etc. When I bought 34723 in Nov 2015 there was nothing on Reilly except bits and pieces of urban legend, often contradictory and often contentious. It took over 3,000 hours of research to rehabilitate Reilly and to recreate the history of the Company, date the guns and date the trade labels. It was fun; I enjoyed that sort of thing and was often in the middle of no-where with not a lot else to do.

"However, the fact that 26584 in North Hertfordshire found its case in Virginia is directly related to that Reilly research. Donald Dallas recognized this. Others should do likewise for their favorite guns which have no records."

And Merry Christmas to all...hoping you have a full double-stocking.
Hi Gene, First let me wish you a happy new year!
I found this entry in a Weller & Dufty catalogue for July 1984........"The stock, action & forend of a 12 bore top lever hammerless boxlock double barrelled shotgun by E. M. REILLY & CO. 277 OXFORD STREET LONDON Serial No. 33774. Barrels available."
==================== An academic review of this history ======================

I realize that gradually the history of Reilly as written 3 years ago has changed from a readable story to an academic defense of the conclusions. That won't fly as prose and anything published will revert to the original story-telling format.

But, there is still the academic debate to be handled here where the line was created, argued and honed. So, here's what is going to be done over the next few months.

I have broken the history up into 95 short paragraphs. I've footnoted each paragraph-each sentence or assertion. The photographs of the documents and evidence supporting each footnote will be published for each paragraph. I tried to figure a way to put thumbs but that's impossible on this site so a lot of the photos are repeats...but this time in chronological order. This is going to be redundant and going over old material. But In this way, if anyone objects to a conclusion, it can be debated directly once again. Because I'm reposting hundreds of photographs it will also require about 100 posts over the next few months and will certainly repeat material already posted over 5 years above.

In any event this will be a chronological trip through both Reilly history and the history of the gun, the UK and France and in some ways Europe in the 19th century. If it doesn't work, please say it early on so I can just let it lay as is or don't read it. Thanks. Gene

Note: The footnotes are representative - but are only a small fraction of the data and documents compiled.
============== *1 - Beginnings TEXT ===================

Introduction

The Reilly firm of gun makers in London has long been viewed as enigmatic. Confusion exists on the location of the company, its products, and even whether it actually made guns or was just a retailer. Reilly's records were lost after bankruptcy (1912) and the final shutting down of the firm (1918). This new history should resolve these mysteries and re-establish Reilly as at one time perhaps one of if not the largest of gun makers in London during the mid-1800's.

*1 Beginnings

Joseph Charles Reilly was born in Ireland in 1786. He hailed from a well-to-do family and his family aspired for him to become a lawyer. In the mid-1800's he went to London to study - Irish Catholics could not study law in Ireland at the time. However, he had an independent streak. Instead of law school, he struck out on his own into various technical fields. (He was obviously supported by his family money in all this - he was never a "destitute student.")

He married in 1812. *1a In 1814 he opened a jewelry shop, later described as also dealing in silver-plate, *1b at 12 Middle Row, Holborn, *1c located hard by Gray’s Inn of the "Inns of the Court." He registered a silver mark "JCR" in July 1818. *1d His clientele included country gentlemen and barristers.

Note: to register a silver/gold mark required a considerable apprenticeship and noted expertise. John Campbell in his article in "Double Gun Journal," Summer 2015 also wrote that Reilly was a member of the clock-makers' guild, something also requiring quite an apprenticeship; he allegedly retained his membership in this guild until the late 1820's.

In 1817 his son Edward Michael was born, the third of four children.*1e He prospered, buying a country estate in Bedfordshire in 1824.

Jewelry shops in London at the time often dealt in guns, engraving and re-selling them, perhaps because of the influence of the artistic professionalism of Joseph Manton's guns at the time. *1f Some such shops called themselves "Whitesmiths." *1g

Note: Among the extant JC Reilly "jewelry" from this time period are miniature working gun models with Damascus barrels. *1h Yet, he did indeed deal in jewelry: a list of stolen goods from the Reilly shop in January 1831 included, rings, necklaces, bracelets, etc. - normal stuff for the métier. *1i

========== *1 - Beginnings END TEXT =============

========== *1 - Beginnings FOOTNOTES/DOCUMENTATION ===========

*1 Beginnings

. . . . .*1a. Marriage certificate: Joseph Charles Reilly and Martha:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*1b April 1817 – “Johnsons London Commercial Guide” – Reilly goldsmith and jeweler
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*1c. 12 Middle Row, Holborn Bars: Comment: Observers from the early 1820's noted that Reilly's jewelry shop was "spacious" and "accorded all opportunity for running a large business." It was obviously sufficient (from maps and sketches) for jewelers. Could guns have been made there? That depends on how many rooms above the shop he occupied - guns were built in spaces the size of a bathroom. Yet J.C. Reilly also accumulated properties in Holborn per his will and it could well have been that he had a workshop at another location.
Sketches:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Map of location of 12 Middle Row – Sally’s Reilly page on Ancestry.com
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*1d. JCR silvermark: Grimwade – “London Goldsmiths; 1867-1937 – Their Marks and Lives… ”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*1e. Reilly children; per Sally’s Ancestry.com page and per the will of J.C. Reilly:
-- Ann Reilly, born 7 March 1813, Holborn, Middlesex, England
-- Ellen Reilly, born 30 March 1815, Holborn, Middlesex, England
-- Edward Michael Reilly, born 01 September 1817, England
-- Charles Joseph Reilly, born 04 July 1819, England.

. . . . .*1f. 07 April 1826 "Morning Advertiser" on the bankruptcy of Joseph Manton.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*1g. “Whitesmith”:
1851 Census. 1851 census record for John Blissett. Note he called himself a "Whitesmith."
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

============ *1- Beginnings FOOTNOTES CONT. BELOW ===========
============== *1 - Beginnings FOOTNOTES continued ===================

*1h. Reilly jewelery, silverplate, naval gun models:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

*1i. Jan 1831 report of burglary at 12 Middle Row:
03Jan31, “Morning Chronicle” – burglary at Silversmith
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

============== *1 - Beginnings END FOOTNOTES ===================
Why this thread is not locked away in some Insane Asylum with you is beyond me.....
============== *2 - 1828: First Guns TEXT ===================

*2 1828: First Guns Made at 12 Middle Row, Holborn (Holborn Bars), London

Reilly’s first noted registration for a hunting license is in 1823.*2a This was no small thing. “Gentlemen” who were involved with guns were expected to fund a license. Lang, for instance, highlighted his having held such a license for 30 years (from 1827) in a pamphlet he wrote in January 1857 promoting center-break guns.*2b Reilly's license may have predated Lang's by 4 years.

Sometime around summer 1828 he numbered his first Reilly built gun which presumably was 01. Reilly's first advertisement specifically identifying himself as a "gunmaker" is April 1831;*2c (The January 1831 report on the burglary at Reilly’s jewelry shop also states he was a “gun maker” *2d. However, ads from summer 1828 make it clear he was already making guns for clients - and urging customers not to spend money for a "name."*2e The serial numbered guns included pistols, rifles and shotguns.

His guns during this period used the address "Holborn Bars." 12 Middle Row was at "Holborn Bars". "Bars" shows the area was one of the old tax stations for entering London.

Edit: A 22 August 1829 advertisement in the London "Morning Herald" does identify "Reily" (sic) at Middle-Row, Holborn Bars", as a "Gun Maker."*2f

Following are the earliest known Reilly serial numbered guns:

-- SN 88 - a pair of .50 cal. percussion dueling pistols with J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London engraved on the hexagonal Damascus barrels; These are the oldest extant Reillys and are dated circa early 1829. *2g

-- SN 162 - the earliest extant Reilly-made long gun; It is a single barrel 6 bore muzzle loader wild-fowler, J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London engraved on the barrel, also made circa 1829. *2h

-- SN 176 - also a pair of .50 cal. percussion pistols, almost identical to SN 88 above with J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London; These are the third oldest existing serial numbered J.C. Reilly guns and are also dated late 1829. *2i

-- SN 254 - Several early 21st century articles including an article by Terry Weiland mention a J.C. Reilly percussion pistol SN 254 as the (then) lowest known Reilly SN. It would date to 1829 per this chart. However, no photos or additional information can be found about this "phantom" legendary pistol. (The "press" unfortunately tends to copy and repeat with no verification of the initial veracity.)

============== *2 - 1828: First Guns END TEXT ===================
========= *2 - 1828: First Guns FOOTNOTES/ANNOTATION ==============

*2 1828: First Guns Made at 12 Middle Row, Holborn (Holborn Bars), London

. . . . .*2a. First noted J.C. Reilly hunting license:
13 Sep 1823 “London Morning Chronicle”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*2b. Lang pamphlet January 1857
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*2c. 1st Reilly advertisements with “Gun Maker”:
03 Apr 1831. “Bell’s Life “ – Gun Maker
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

09 May 1831 "New Sporting Magazine" The first advertisements where he identified himself as "Gun Maker"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*2d. 1st Reilly “Gun Maker” from the burglary:
08 Jan31, “Tradesman” – Gun maker + Silversmith
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*2e. 1st Reilly advertisements for guns. Reading the advertisements closely make clear he was selling his own named guns at the time.
24 Aug 1828, “Morning Chronicle” – 1st Reilly ads for guns
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

14 Jun 1829, "Bell's Life" – Early advertisement for Reilly making and selling guns
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

18 Jul 1830, "Bell's Life"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

============== *2 - First Guns FOOTNOTES continued below ==============
Those „88“ dueling short smoke poles are just Dandy. What a story.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
============== *2 - First Guns FOOTNOTES continued ===================

. . . . .*2f. SN 88 - a pair of .50 cal. percussion dueling pistols with J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London engraved on the hexagonal Damascus barrels (photo from a private UK owner). A gentleman in UK read the Reilly history posted on Diggory Hadoke's on-line magazine Vintage gun journal and wrote to Diggory. He has a pair of J.C. Reilly Duelers, SN 88 with "Holborn Bars, London" on the barrels. These are now the earliest known Reilly's, which would date per my chart to early 1829 (but could just as well be 1828). The owner believes they were commissioned and bought by his great-great-great grandfather around 1829. He has given permission to reproduce these images.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . .*2g. SN 162 - 6 bore muzzle loader wild-fowler, J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London engraved on the barrel. Photo from Holt's Auction.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*2h. SN 176 - .50 cal. percussion pistols with J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London; (Owned by Terry Buffum; Photos from Amoskeog Auction)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

============== *2 - First Guns END FOOTNOTES ===================
============== *3 - Business Model TEXT =================

*3 Reilly Business Model:

JC Reilly early on adopted a business model which did not change during the life of the firm: i.e. provide a quality hand-made product for a moderate price and deliver it rapidly, and "make what would sell." *3a

Reilly was never an innovator - he was a businessman first and a technician/engineer second. But, with this model, and especially with the rise of EM, with his family connections to the gun trade, his ability to recognize a winning or commercially interesting invention or patent, and his flexibility enabling him to produce new products and abandon old ways, Reilly undercut more expensive and better known makers and made his profit on volume.

Reilly dealt in used guns taken on trade and sold guns under license.*3b However, he only serial numbered guns he built and he numbered his guns consecutively for 90 years with certain exceptions during the move to New Oxford-Street in 1847. Reilly had extensive finishing facilities in his large London buildings and no doubt stockpiled locks (and later after 1855 actions) and barrel blanks from outworkers to allow him to meet orders three times as quickly as his competitors.
. . .-- Example: Ads from the 1850’s in spring of each year consistently stated that Reilly had 100 guns in various stages of manufacture which were available for custom fitting and engraving; these guns were not previously ordered but were “speculation guns” stockpiled for expected customers based on anticipated demand. These ads state outright that this had been the company business practice for "more than 20 years." *3c
. . .-- Caveat: Around 1881 Reilly most likely changed some of the parameters of the company' business model; He probably begun using actions (A&D boxlocks for starters) from Birmingham bought "in the white" and finished in London.

================ *3 - Business Model END TEXT =================(see below).
=================== *3 - Business Model FOOTNOTES ======================

. . . . .*3a Business model:
1885, Wyman’s Commercial Directory:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

18 Aug 1862: Bell’s Life
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

06 Jul 1867: "The Field" - discusses the low prices, and excellence of Reilly made guns and the fact that the"Field" author personally used one in India:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*3b: May 1834, “New Sporting Magazine", “p, 414
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*3c: 05 Mar 1859, “The Field“ – Note in the ad that Reilly built a hundred "spec guns" as of March 1859 anticipating demand that fall, as they have done for 20 years. This is why Reilly could deliver a gun in a few weeks while others took months.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

================ *3 - Business Model END FOOTNOTES =================
================== *4 Reilly Gun Maker TEXT =================

*4 1831: Reilly "Gun Maker"

As mentioned above the first Reilly advertisement so far found with "Gun-Maker" appeared in April 1831.*4a However, the report on the early January theft of jewelry from his shop identified J.C. as both “gun maker” and “silversmith” indicating that he was alreadly established in the gun trade at that time.*4b A Jul 1830 advertisement specifically mentioned guns of Reilly’s own make.*4c From 1831 forward Reilly identified himself solely as "Gun-Maker.” The fact that Reilly was making guns in London was widely reported in the British press at the time, an 1835 book on guns and shooting being an example.*4d.

His gun advertisements in 1831 targeted “gentlemen going abroad” and offered special rates to “country dealers” ordering his guns.*4e There are indications that during the early 1830's he was making guns "in the white" for the London trades as well. (A Reilly hammer found on an 1835 James Beattie gun, and the similarity of that gun to known Reilly long guns leads to this possible conclusion).*4f For an entreprenuer who had began making guns only three years earlier, this is an impressive expansion of his manufacturing capability and his marketing/retailing.

Note: Reilly continued to deal in jewelry for awhile. In London directories he is mentioned as a jeweler up to 1835.*4g He apparently continued to make “jewelry” of a type afterwards which included miniature cannons and guns; J.C. Reilly exhibited small brass mortar models at an exhibition in 1845.*4h

Note: 70 years later as Reilly fortunes began to wane, J.C. Reilly's grandson advertised the firm as "established 1835." This history knows more than the grandson did.*4i

================== *4 Reilly Gun Maker END TEXT =================
============= *4 Reilly Gun Maker FOOTNOTES ============

. . . . .*4a. 1st Reilly advertisements with “Gun Maker”:
03 Apr 1831. “Bell’s Life “ – Gun Maker
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

09 May 1831 "New Sporting Magazine": The first advertisements where he identified himself as "Gun Maker"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*4b. 1st Reilly “Gun Maker” from the burglary:
08 Jan31, “Tradesman” – Gun maker + Silversmith
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*4c. 18 Jul 1830, "Bell's Life" – Reilly making his own guns:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*4d. 1835, “Remarks on Shooting”:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*4e. 1831 special rates for country dealers: 25 Mar 1831, “Bell’s Life”:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*4f. 1835 James Beattie, Duffy and Weller 1978 catalog.:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*4g. 1835 Jeweler: London Postal Directory, 1835:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*4h. 1845, Brass mortar models exhibited at the 1845 Royal Polytechnic Fair in Scotland:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*4i. 11 Feb 1903, “The Field” – “Established 1835”: Also, one of the last advertisements for 277 Oxford Street.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

============= *4 Reilly Gun Maker END FOOTNOTES ============
=========== *5 - Move to 316 High Holborn TEXT=============

*5 August 1835: Move to 316 High Holborn-Street:

In August 1835 JC Reilly with 17 year old EM as an apprentice moved to 316 High Holborn Street.*5a The building no longer exists but from the size of the current building on the plot, it was probably quite substantial.*5b The average house in the area from lithograph prints at the time indicate it was probably a four or five story walk-up.*5c

J.C. owned several houses and may have lived at a different address than 316 High Holborn per his will*5d So the entire building may have been workshops and offices. (The 1841 census, however, recorded the entire family including E.M. as present at 316 High Holborn*5e.

The first serial numbered extant gun with the High Holborn address is SN 1024, an 8.5mm pocket pistol, Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London on the gun.*5f

Advertisements from the 1840’s show the shop had a small shooting gallery where air guns and hand guns could be tested.*5g

========= *5 - Move to 316 High Holborn END TEXT============
======== *5 - Move to 316 High Holborn FOOTNOTES/ANNOTATION==========

. . . . .*5a - 316 High Holborn:
. . . . . . . . . .24 Aug 1835, "Morning Chronicle"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .Map
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*5b – Present 316 High Holborn Building
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Henekey's Olde Wine House on the right is just east of the intersection of High Holborn and Chancery Lane...Chancery Lane is to the left...meaning 316 High Holborn should be back behind the photograph.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*5c – Print of the High Holborn area in 1835 looking east from the area of 12 Middle Row.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*5d – J.C. Reilly home address: Unclear…still to be researched; there is information that J.C. Reilly maintained a separate house from 316 ... however the 1841 census records him (and EM) living at 316.
Some of the properties owned by JC Reilly at his death per his will:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*5e - SN 1024 - 8.5mm pocket pistol, Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*5f – 14 Jan 43, “Illustrated London News“ - Per this advertisement, Reilly had a small shooting gallery at 316 High Holborn.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

This is confirmed by this Blissett advertisement. Blissett occupied 316 High Holborn when Reilly moved to 502 New Oxford street at the end of March 1847:
. . . . .13 Apr 1847 London Daily News
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

======== *5 - Move to 316 High Holborn END FOOTNOTES ==========
Great research skills as usual.

Alan
=============== *6 - End of pistol making TEXT===================

*6 1837: End of Serial Numbered Pistols:

By circa 1837 pistols were no longer numbered in the Reilly chronological numbering system although in the 1839 edition of "Pigot’s London Directory" J.C. Reilly is still listed as “Gun and Pistol Maker.”*6a His serial numbered guns seemed to be limited to bespoke long-guns made to order.

The last serial numbered pistol so far found is SN 1292, a 120 bore (.32 Cal.), pocket pistol with a steel barrel.*6b (This style of Reilly pocket pistol is almost ubiquitous - dozens are extant including the most ornate cased in mahogany and silver encrusted to the mundane - it was obviously a best seller. However, none after SN 1292 are serial numbered).*6c.

J.C. Reilly continued to "make" big-bore percussion pistols at 316 High Holborn, at least one of them remarkably similar to SN 88 and SN 174.*6d However, none of these have serial numbers.*6e

============== *6 - End of pistol making END TEXT================
=============== *6 - pistol making FOOTNOTES==================

*6 1837: End of Serial Numbered Pistols:

. . . . .*6a - 1839 edition of "Pigot’s London Directory":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*6b - SN 1292, a 120 bore (.32 Cal.), pocket pistol with a steel barrel
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*6c – Collage of early Reilly pocket pistols.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Some of Reilly's non-serial numbered pistols from 1840-1860:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*6d J.C. Reilly big-bore pistols from 316 High Holborn, non-serial numbered:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=============== *6 - End of pistol making END FOOTNOTES==================
And interesting even then during that period, folks were procuring pocket pistol to fend off roving bands of marauders. No different than today, just an earlier platform.

Raimey
rse
I wouldn't mind have a brace of those dueling pistols for my occupation. Until yet, not a feuding party has taking up my offer of matched dueling pistols to solve their issue.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
=============== *7 - Name change to "Reilly" TEXT===================

*7 August 1840: Company Name Changes to "Reilly":

In August 1840 the firm's name in advertisements changed from J.C. Reilly to just "Reilly," which may mark the advent of 23 year old EM as a full partner in the company.*7a EM is listed in the 1841 census as living with J.C. and his occupation, like that of J.C. is "Gun maker."*7b

The names on the gun ribs continued to be "J.C. Reilly" or "Joseph Charles Reilly."*7c

Case/Trade labels were styled like an embossed business card with the following inscription:
. . . . . . . . . ._____________________
. . . . . . . . . | Joseph Charles Reilly .|
. . . . . . . . . | . . . . Gun Maker . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |. . .316 High Holborn. . |
. . . . . . . . . | . near Chancery Lane . |
. . . . . . . . . |____________________ | *7d

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Several guns from this period survive including the following:
. . . . .SN 1174 - 8 bore. Fowling piece; Percussion single shot*7e
. . . . .SN 1869 - 10 bore Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader*7f
. . . . .SN 3329 - Joseph Charles Reilly 316 High Holburn London; 10 bore Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader*7g
. . . . .SN xxxx - J.C. Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London. 10 bore. Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun*7h
. . . . .SN yyyy - J.C. Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London. 16 bore. Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun*7i

Reilly apparently had been boring his own barrels using his own system since 1837 (discussed further below in the "Reilly barrels" chapter 35).*7j

============= *6 - Name change to "Reilly" END TEXT=================
Where might Reilly have been sourcing his >>rough bored tubes<<??

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
Raimey, you could have bought Terry Buffum's duelers 5 years ago on Amoskeog.
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/108/283.html

Re barrel blanks, here is a sentence from Chapter 35 - Reilly barrels:

"It is well known that after 1844 with the closure of the London barrel forger Fullerd, London barrel blanks came from Birmingham (and by 1890 from Liège). However, these were bored in London."

To go into this subject further would be extremely interesting. Perhaps that will be a next project.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
===========*7 1840 Name Change to Reilly FOOTNOTES/ANNOTATION ============

*7 August 1840: Company Name Changes to "Reilly":

. . . . .*7a - firm's name in advertisements changed from J.C. Reilly to just "Reilly,":
Top: 15 Jun 1840: “Bell’s Life”
Bottom: 14 Aug 1840: “Evening Standard”

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*7b – 1841 census – gunmaker. Joseph Charles Reilly 1841 Census entry for 316 High Holborn - note that Edward Michael was also identified as "Gun Maker."
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*7c - Name on barrels remains "J.C. Reilly" or "Joseph Charles Reilly."
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*7d – 316 High Holborn Case/Trade label
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*7e - SN 1174 - 8 bore. Fowling piece; Percussion single shot, Photo from Holts:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*7f - SN 1869 - 10 bore Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader: - No photo, Terry Buffum: “JC Reilly, SxS Percussion Hammer Gun, 10 ga, SN 1869; Cased with oil bottle, shot and powder flasks (from Terry Buffum’s consignment sheet).

. . . . .*7g - SN 3329 - 10 bore Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader; Photo from Bonham’s:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*7h - SN xxxx - J.C. Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London. 10 bore. Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, Photo from Holts
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*7i – SN yyyy - J.C. Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London. 16 bore. Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, Photo from Bruun-Rasmussen:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*7j 07 Aug 1837. “Morning Chronicle” – Reilly system of boring barrels.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=============*7 Name Change to Reilly END FOOTNOTES/ANNOTATION ============
================= *8 1840 Air Guns TEXT ===================

*8 1840's: Air-guns:

JC Reilly during this period also became known for his air cane guns. Air guns had been around for years. Lewis & Clark carried one on their expedition across America.*8a Manton made one in the 1820's. However, around 1840 they became exceedingly popular and just about every gun-maker advertised them. Young EM was billed as the expert and was so mentioned in advertisements for the next 8 years, identified as "Reilly Junr."*8b

In 1847 EM wrote a widely disseminated pamphlet on air guns. It is mostly an advertising brochure highlighting the company's ability to produce all sorts of air-guns and parts - but also going into air pressures they achieved in the air chambers and other technical aspects of the guns. It is cited to this day. The pamphlet title page noted the author was "Reilly junr," used the (new) 502 New Oxford Street address and included the phrase "Removed from Holborn" (see below). *8c

Note: The earliest Reilly trade-case label known (for 316 High Holborn Street) came out of an air-gun case, not surprisingly since it was undoubtedly not carried out into muddy fields. It appears that Reilly did not serial number air guns even though the company manufactured and made the guns (similar to post 1837 hand-guns mentioned above). This said there is one air-gun with a serial number 7801 with J.C. Reilly’s name on it. This appears to be a legitimate JC “7000” series number (see below).*8d

A collage of extant Reilly air guns dating from the 1830’s to the 1880’s is pictured below:*8e. Note: There is an extensive series of posts going into detail on a dozen extant Reilly air guns dating from the 1830's to the 1880's posted here beginning at the bottom of the page: https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=509815

Note: Reilly became so associated with air-guns that his name was mentioned in various fiction "who-done-its,*8f, *8g and may have been a prototype for the Sherlock Holmes short story "The Empty House" by Arthur Conan Doyle.*8h

Interesting fact: Apparently by 1843 E.M. Reilly (Reilly, Jnr) had joined the Masonic Lodge. And advertisement in “The Freemason” from 1843 identified him as “Brother Reilly Junr.”*8i He was also a practicing Catholic who contributed substantially to the local Catholic church (commented on below).*8j There was apparently no contradiction in being both a Mason and a Catholic.

================ *8 1840 Air Guns END TEXT =================
============== *8 1840 Air Guns FOOTNOTES/ANNOTATION ==================

*8 1840's: Air-guns: There are two long 3 part posts on the Reilly line discussing a doxen Reilly air cane guns in detail:

. . . . .*8a – Air gun carried by Lewis&Clark expedition, now in NRA museum in Virginia;
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*8b – Reilly, jnr. Air cane guns; 22 April 1843, “Morning Chronicle “ :
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*8c – Reilly pamphlet on air guns, 1847. (Note this pamphlet is dated circa 1850 in virtually every article published about Reilly or air guns. Base on the "Removed from Holborn" phrase, however, it is now definitively dated to 1847...probably that summer.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*8d – SN 7801 air cane with a label from post December 1847:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*8e – Collage of air canes: On the Reilly line of DGS-BBS there are a long series of posts discuSsing a dozen Reilly air cane guns:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*8f – Fiction - Le Coiuffeur de Chateaubriand
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*8g – Fiction - The Case of Peter the Painter
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*8h – Fiction - The Empty House, by A. Conan Doyle
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

============== *8 1840 Air Guns END FOOTNOTES ==================
================= Pause 1 and Questions ==================[/b

[b]PAUSE:
We're about 1/10th of the way through the Reilly documentation. I just want to check to see if there are any objections so far. To reiterate the evidence above appears to show that:
-- Reilly began making guns around 1828 in addition to dealing in quality used guns.
-- By 1831 he was selling guns in the white to country dealers
-- By 1835 he was possibly selling guns in the white to London gunmakers.
-- He was a pistol maker as well as a long-gun maker
-- In 1835 he moved to 316 High Holborn.
-- About 1837 he quit numbering pistols but continued to assemble and engrave them
-- He did the same with air guns in the 1840's. E.M. was billed as the expert,
-- His son E.M. may have become a full partner in the firm in 1840 at the age of 23.
-- He was boring his own barrels as early as 1837. *(Not sure in spite of claims: this to be discussed further on Chap 35 Reilly Barrels)

All good so far? No dissensions?

Anybody have any documentation on Reilly only being a "Retailer" during this period? If so please post the evidence so it can be debated.

Welcome other observations. (I have a lot more material but I can think of several questions I'd like to have answered myself). Thanks,
Great job of copy and pasting....

How does it feel to have one million 300+ views and know you are the main view'e ?
Ok, I guess the history and analysis presented looks to be substantive, credible and logical so far; - so onward:

============== *9 502 New Oxford-Street TEXT==================

*9 March 1847: Move to 502 New Oxford-Street

In late March 1847 Reilly moved from High Holborn to 502 New Oxford Street, a large edifice also called the "Elizabethan buildings" on a new extension of Oxford Street.*9a

The building was not more than a few hundred yards from his two previous workshops at 12 Middle Row an 316 High Holborn; Reilly was attached to this neighborhood apparently.
. . . . .Attached an 1890 plat map on New Oxford Street with location of 502.*9a(1)

With this move, Reilly demonstrated another trait of his business acumen, i.e. "location." The new road provided access to the center of London from the wealthy West End suburbs. He always chose prestigious, high-traffic locations for his stores.

-- Comment: the story of the extension of Oxford Street has also to do with slum clearing. This area was a notorious pit of crime, rabbit warren streets and poverty known as "the Rookery"...the Charles Dickens era...and road building apparently was a way to solve the public problem. "The building of New Oxford Street together with the later reconstruction of Shaftsbury Avenue through other notorious parts of St. Giles began the reclamation of this long infamous area for respectability," *9b

The building was quite large, 5 stores and at least an estimated 8,000 square feet of space for retail, manufacturing, and for a homestead on the top floor. For a gun-maker in London, this was an enormous space - guns in London were being made in shops at the time the size of a kitchen.
. . . . .Attached a sketch of 502 New Oxford Street from the subsequent Reilly trade label.*9c(1)
. . . . .Attached photo of current New Oxford Street with outline of the former 502.*9c(2)

A word of explanation about the nature of the London gun business:

. . . . .-- It was always concentrated into small, sometimes tiny, workshops and buildings. Purpose built “factories” as one would normally recognize such as some of the large firms in Birmingham, did not exist in London until Holland&Holland built their factory in the 1890’s. At this time, the late 1840’s as stated, Reilly operated his “factory” out of 502 (later 16) New Oxford Street, and 11 years later from a second factory at 315 (later 277) Oxford Street).

. . . . .-- As an example of the type of workshop common in London, Purdey operated for 60 years from a small building at 314 ½ Oxford Street (actually 314 & 315), where he had his showroom, fitting rooms, administrative offices and his workshops.*9d
. . . . . . . . .- Attached London 1890 map plat of Oxford Street.*9d(1)
. . . . . . . . .- London Postal Directory of 1882 with old and new numbering.*9d(2)
. . . . . . . . .- 1885 photo or Oxford Street with both 277 and Purdey's 314 1/2 in the background. Building hight is considerably higher than today. EM Reilly's son fell from the top floor of 277 in 1895, a distance of 50'.*9d(3)
. . . . . . . . .- Google earth photo of Purdey's 314 1/2 Oxford Street today.*9d(4)

. . . . .-- A second example is 22 Cockspur Street where Lang had his workshop from 1851-1872. This was where the first UK pin-fire center-break gun was made. It had a 28 yard shooting gallery as well as access to two billiard tables located a block away (where they had been since 1830).*9e
. . . . .Attached map plate of 22 Cockspur Street with shooting gallery.*9e(1)
. . . . .Attached photo of 22 Cockspur Street.*9e(2)

. . . . .—Finally, It was quite common for gunmakers to live on the premises of their gun shops. Reilly certainly did this from at least 1835 to 1903 per the annual UK census. Attached is a bankruptcy announcement for Joseph Manton from 1826 showing that his house was on Hanover Square, adjoining at the back to several workshops which gave onto 315 Oxford Street (see above).*9f

============ *9 502 New Oxford-Street END TEXT================
============ *9 502 New Oxford-Street FOOTNOTES ================

*9 March 1847: Move to 502 New Oxford-Street

. . . . .*9a – 502 New Oxford Street move advertisement:
20 March 1847, “Morning Post”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*9b - plan for the New Oxford Street extension 1844:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*9c – Photos; Sketch, photos of 502 New Oxford Street: Comment: The size of this building alone shows that Reilly was engaged in large scale manufacturing.
. . . . . . . . . .From Dec 1847 Label:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .1860 Map
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .1890 detailed London plat showing lots:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .1882 London Postal Directory showing Reilly was on the north side of New Oxford Street, 7th house down:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .From Google Earth in present day: The entire block was rebuilt apparently in the 1980's...Reilly building would have been still standing when Donald Dallas walked past it on his way to London School of Economics.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*9d Reilly’s 315 Oxford Street (post 1858) and Purdey’s 314 ½ Oxford Street from an 1883 photo:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .From Google Earth the modern juxtaposition of the buildings for Reilly at 315 (277) Oxford Street and Purdey at 314 ½ (287, 289) Oxford Street:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

The buildings are not the same – they are less tall for sure. (Reily's son fell from the top floor of 277 and died in 1895). But observe the footprint for Purdey. That building for 60 years was where Purdey built his guns, sold and fitted his guns, and was the administration headquarters.

. . . . .*9e 22 Cockspur Street, where Lang was located from 1851-1874 and where the British center-break pin-fire was born. That was a factory - the well known shooting gallery was apparently a block away.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

========== *9 502 New Oxford-Street END FOOTNOTES =============
============ *10 502 April-Nov 47 Trade Label TEXT ================

*10 April-November 1847: Change in Trade Label

From April 1847 to November 1847 the trade label kept the form of the old High Holborn case label format but with the 502 New Oxford Street, London address and a note that the firm had "Removed from Holborn." *10a
Two versions:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Note: Reilly used the phrase "Removed from Holborn" in advertisements after the move from April 1847 to November 1847. By December 1847 it had disappeared from his ads.*10b, *10c

========== *10 502 April-Nov 47 Trade Label END TEXT ==============
============ *10 502 April-Nov 47 Trade Label FOOTNOTES ================

*10 April-November 1847: Change in Trade Label

. . . . .*10a – Apr-Dec 1847 Label;
Two versions:
_____________________. . . . . _________________________
|. .Joseph C. Reilly . . . .| . . | . . . .Joseph Charles Reilly. . . .|
|. . .Gun Maker. . . . . . | . . .| . . . . . .Gun Maker. . . . . . . . |
|502 New Oxford Street. |. . . |502 New Oxford Street, London|. . .plus
|Removed from Holborn|. . . | . . .Removed from Holborn. . |

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

June 1847: “Removed from Holborn”
. . . . .*10b – Advertisements for 502 New Oxford Street with Removed from Holborn
top: April 3, 1847, "Illustrated London News" – “Removed from Holborn”
Bottom: Aug, 1847, Morning Chronicle – “Removed from Holborn”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

09 Nov 1847, "Morning Chronicle" with “Removed from Holborn”:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*10c – First 502 New Oxford Street Advertisement without “Removed from Holborn”
21 Dec 1847 “Illustrated London News” – “"Removed from Holborn" NOT present.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

============ *10 502 April-Nov 47 Trade Label END FOOTNOTES ================
============ *11 1847: Number change TEXT ================

*11 1847: Change in the Main-Line Numbering Chronology - 3350 Jumps to 8350

At the time of the move the main serial number chronology for Reilly long-guns was jumped up 5000 numbers from about SN 3350 to begin anew at around 8350 (called for simplicity the "8350" series). The name on serial numbered guns after the move ultimately became simply "Reilly" with exceptions.

. . .-- SN 3329 is the last extant gun made at High Holborn. It is a 10 gauge SxS percussion rifle with Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holburn, London on the rib. *11a

. . .-- SN 8378 is the first extant main-line SN'd gun from the new building, a SxS 12 bore muzzle-loading shotgun. It has "J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London" on the rib. The original label in the old High Holborn case label format has the 502 New Oxford Street, London address and notes the firm had "Removed from Holborn." *11b

. . .-- SN 8463 is the first extant SN'd gun in the new series with only "Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London." The gun is a .390 cal SxS muzzle loader rifle, also with "Removed from Holborn" on the label.*11c

Note: Reilly used the phrase "Removed from Holborn" in advertisements after the move from April 1847 to November 1847. By December 1847 it had disappeared from his ads. (See above).

========== *11 1847: Number change END TEXT ==============
===============*11 1847: Change in numbering FOOTNOTES ===================
Note: There are a series of posts early in the Reilly line explaining how the conclusion that the Reilly's skipped 5000 serial numbers was arrived at and documenting this further. Several publications had mentioned this possibility including a couple of magazine articles, one by Terry Weiland, but they generally said the jump was from "4000" to "8000". This Reilly line research confirmed the jump but refined it to "3350" to "8350" based on extant/known guns.

*11 1847: Change in the Main-Line Numbering Chronology - 3350 Jumps to 8350

. . . . .*11a – SN 3329 - 10 gauge SxS percussion rifle with Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holburn, London on the rib London" on the rib. Photo from Christies.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*11b – SN 8378 - SxS 12 bore muzzle-loading shotgun. It has "J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London" on the rib. Removed from Holborn” on label. Photo from probusauktioner (Sweden)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*11c – SN 8463 - .390 cal SxS muzzle loader rifle. “Joseph Charles Reilly, Gun Maker, 502 New Oxford Street, London, and Removed from Holborn” on label. Photo James Julia
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=============*11 1847: Change in numbering END FOOTNOTES =================
=============== *12 1846-57: J.C. 7000 Series TEXT ===============

*12 1846-1857: J.C. Reilly 7000 Series Numbering Chronology

Preceding this move to New Oxford Street, around early 1846, perhaps anticipating the (planned) change in the main serial number chronology, J.C. Reilly appears to have kept a series of numbers for himself, called for simplicity the J.C. "7000" series. He numbered about 1200 guns over the next 11 years in this series beginning around SN 7000 and ending around 8200 when he retired in 1857.

JC Reilly sometimes (but not always) put his full name or initials on the ribs of these serial numbers but with the 502 New Oxford Street address; yet the trade/case labels with "Reilly" as the firm's name and the advertisements/publicity remained the same for the "8350 main-line series and the J.C. "7000" series.

. . .-- SN 7021 is the first extant SN'd gun in the JC "7000" series, a 20 bore single barrel boy’s percussion shotgun. It has " Reilly, London" on the barrel and was probably numbered in early 1846.*12a

. . .-- SN 7023 is the second extant SN'd gun in the JC "7000" series, an 11 bore SxS percussion shotgun. It has "J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London" on the rib and was probably numbered in early 1846.*12b

. . .-- SN 7201, a .577 percussion single barrel rifle, was the first in the J.C. 7000 series with the new "Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London" address on the barrel, probably numbered around September 1847. It has the old style "J.C. Reilly" trade label with the new 502 New Oxford Street address and also with "Removed from Holborn." *12c

. . .-- SN 8186 is the last extant gun in the 7000 series (no doubt made in late summer 1857). It's an elegant .650 mimi ball single barrel muzzle-loader rifle engraved Reilly, New Oxford Street, London, with "Vini, Vidi, Vici" on the barrel (see below). *12d

============= *12 1846-57: J.C. 7000 Series END TEXT =============
============= *12 1846-57: J.C. 7000 Series FOOTNOTES =============

*12 1846-1857: J.C. Reilly 7000 Series Numbering Chronology

. . . . .*12a – SN 7021 - 20 bore single barrel boy’s percussion shotgun. Photo from Holts
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*12b – SN 7023 - 11 bore SxS percussion shotgun. It has "J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London" on the rib. Photo from Holts..
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*12c – SN 7201 - .577 percussion single barrel rifle, with the new label "Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London". Photo from Anderson & Garland, Newcastle.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*12d – SN 8186 - .650 mimi ball single barrel muzzle-loader rifle engraved Reilly, New Oxford Street, London, with "Vini, Vidi, Vici" on the barrel: (small dove-tailed blade fore-sight, elevating folding ladder rear-sight with additional standing notch and when folded concealing the Reilly motto 'VENI VIDI VICI' - I came, I saw, I conquered). (Photo from Holts)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=========== *12 1846-57: J.C. 7000 Series END FOOTNOTES ===========
=========== *13 1840-1856: Outlier serial numbers TEXT ===========

*13 Outlier J.C. serial numbered guns, 1840-1856

There are outlier SN'd guns associated with JC which do not fit any sort of pattern, illustrating the sometime quirkiness of JC Reilly.

. . .-- SN 4573 - c1841, a 7 gauge, smoothbore, short single barrel, dangerous game gun with "J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London" on the barrel. The gun appears to be from the 1842-1844 timeframe.*13a

. . .-- SN 2008 - c1850-56, a 14 bore SxS muzzle-loader shotgun with "Joseph Charles Reilly, New Oxford Street, London" on the rib and per below bore size stamped on the barrel. The address would date it between April 1847 to circa September 1857 when J.C. retired; The gun, however, looks to be late 1840's-early 1850's.*13b

. . .-- SN 3514 - 1856-1859, a 13 bore SxS percussion shotgun with "Reilly, New Oxford Street, London" on the rib, apparently made (per the trade label in the case).*13c

========= *13 1840-1856: Outlier serial numbers END TEXT =========
=========== *13 1840-1856: Outlier serial numbers FOOTNOTES ===========

*13 Outlier J.C. serial numbered guns, 1840-1856

. . . . .*13a - SN 4573 - 7 gauge, smoothbore, short single barrel, dangerous game gun with "J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London". Photo from Amoskeog.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*13b - SN 2008 - 14 bore SxS muzzle-loader shotgun with "Joseph Charles Reilly, New Oxford Street, London". (Photo from Wootang on this site)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*13c - SN 3514 - 13 bore SxS percussion shotgun with "Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. Photo from Guntrader.com
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=========== *13 1840-1856: Outlier serial numbers END FOOTNOTES ===========
Originally Posted by Argo44
There are no Reilly records.

And there is still no evidence that Reilly had a fairly large gun manufacturing facility that had upwards of 300 people employed in the production of all manner of firearms.

I keep checking in to see if something has been found, since we were promised substantive evidence. But what we get is still more usage of the word gunmaker as found in a number of old advertisments. The longer this goes on, the more accurate this following assessment appears to be:

Originally Posted by Geo. Newbern
I don't know whether E.M. Reilly was a maker or a merchant. My first British double was a Reilly boxlock I acquired from for sale ad here back in the '90's. I inquired here at the time and the prevailing wisdom seemed to be that Reilly wasn't a maker. Our friend Gene has done a yeoman's task of investigation and has been kind enough to share his work with all of us. While I appreciate his work, I cannot yet agree with is conclusion which is counter to the historic opinion on Reilly. I think E.M. Reilly was for his time the epidemy of the tradition of the British gun trade as a multi-layered combination of outworker craftsmen and sales companies whose names appeared on the guns of the period. With, of course a few actual manufacturers whose names and bonafides have traditionally been accepted in the business...Geo

We had a guy right here on this forum who bragged for years about his "award winning wines". As it turned out, he wasn't a wine maker at all. He had a little vineyard of a couple acres, and was the smallest supplier of grapes that were purchased by an actual wine making company that did all of the processing, fermenting, bottling, and sales. Then, as now, there are people who are prone to exaggerating their position and place in life. And nowhere has this behavior been seen more frequently than in advertising claims. The false and absurdly questionable claims made by many in the firearms business are no exception.

Originally Posted by AlanD
Great research skills as usual.

Alan

Well... I suppose so... if one is impressed by sheer volume, with little regard for accuracy and analysis. For instance, look at this statement. Not many guys even live to be 90, let alone are working gunmakers for 90 years:

Originally Posted by Argo44
Reilly dealt in used guns taken on trade and sold guns under license.*3b However, he only serial numbered guns he built and he numbered his guns consecutively for 90 years with certain exceptions during the move to New Oxford-Street in 1847.

But that's nothing compared to Methusela of the Bible, so it must be true. Something else that literally jumped out at me is the information about Reilly's business at 502 New Oxford Street. The "research" describes it as a "huge" building of 10,000 square feet. That sounds pretty big, unless you are even a little bit familiar with manufacturing operations that employ around 300 employees. In reality, that would be extremely small, especially for a building that also contained offices and retail sales space. Do the math, and divide 10,000 sq. ft. by 300 employees. You get a work area of 33.33 sq. ft. per employee. That's little more than 5 by 6 feet per man. And that small closet sized area per man would have to include hand tools, barrel boring machinery, other machinery, work benches, vises, jigs and fixtures, parts inventory, stock blanks, bluing, case hardening, and wood finishing facilities, partially finished guns of all descriptions, along with completed guns and merchandise for sale... and our poor guy with less room to turn around than a canned sardine.

Our undaunted researcher qualifies this with unfounded claims that complete guns were being built in London in that era in shops the size of a kitchen. But just how many kitchens are only 33 sq. ft., other than in a small camping trailer???

Then take a close look at the pictures that are alleged to be of this building at 502 New Oxford St. It is clearly evident that they aren't even the same building. The entire facade is different. The architecture is totally different. And neither appears like they would accommodate anywhere near 300 employees.

Originally Posted by Argo44
. . . . .*9b – Photos; Sketch, photos of 502 New Oxford Street: Comment: The size of this building alone shows that Reilly was engaged in large scale manufacturing. There is no evidence that the Reilly family lived in the building so the entire space was devoted to commercial sales, offices and manufacturing.
From Dec 1847 Label:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


Originally Posted by Argo44
From Google Earth in present day:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

========== *9 502 New Oxford-Street END FOOTNOTES =============

But hope springs eternal with 90 percent left to come... unless Dave's server crashes from another 730 pages of copy and paste photos, advertisements with highlighted words, and lots of conjecture.

Originally Posted by Argo44
PAUSE: We're about 1/10th of the way through the Reilly documentation.
=============== 502 (16) New Oxford Street – A response ================

Thank you for your observation Bill...though it as usual took the form of a polemical rant rather than an academic query. This topic was addressed in detail on the Reilly line. The following is for those who have not, cannot, or have refused to read it:

1. Historical footprint: Buildings change, facades are redone, buildings are torn down and rebuilt. Clearly the modern building at 16 New Oxford Street is a story taller than the one pictured in 1885. What does not change however is the footprint. The Reilly building in whatever form it was, which was held as a freehold, was huge for London and it likely existed in the re-facaded 1885 photo form until it was sold ih 1897. It's interesting however, that the fundamental layout remains to this day which makes one wonder whether the original building is still there.

2. London “factories” and “workshops”: London was a city of small shops. Here is a description of capitalism in London based on the 1851 census (which was going to be address in chapter 16):

*16e - Number of employees: London: A Social History:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

As an example Purdey operated out of two buildings at 314 and 315 Oxford Street from 1820’s to 1881. It was called “314 ½” as a compromise. There is not one existing photo of that building according to the Purdey historian. (This would mean it didn't exist according to some knowledgeable posters). However Here is a picture I extracted and sent to them:

Reilly’s 315 Oxford Street (post 1858) and Purdey’s 314 ½ Oxford Street from an 1883 photo:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Here is the modern building for Reilly 315 Oxford Street and Purdey at 314 ½ Oxford Street:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

The buildings are not the same – they are less tall for sure. (Reily's son fell from the top floor of 277 and died in 1895). But take a look at the footprint for Purdey. That building for 50 years was where Purdey built his guns, sold and fitted his guns, and was the administration headquarters.
That SIR is a London FACTORY!

3. Number of Reilly workers in 1851. We have no idea how many workers Reilly employeed in 1851. The gun business was highly cyclical – when a big order came in, workers were added. On the Process of Small Arms Manufacturer, 1870
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . .-- In 1881 Reilly told the census taker he employeed 300 men (Greener 140). But Reilly at that time had two large workshops (he had only one building in 1851), a store in Paris and may have had concerns or a partnership of sorts in Birmingham. And he had just expanded his business dramatically from making 650 numbered guns in the 1870’s to over 1,000.
But sir, 1851 is NOT 1881...GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!

4. "Keith" and his credibility: A word about “Keith" (Bill from Pennsylvania). He may know something about American guns but that’s difficult to know because he spends so much time spewing hate and honing his “enemies list.” What is clear from several posts on this line is that he knows nothing about English guns or the London gun trade and he has no interest in reading what has been written, learning, or asking coherent questions.

He has disrupted dozens of lines and is simply not credible as an observer or a scholar. I won’t bother to respond to him again.

Gene Williams

However, I have sent him my telephone number. He can call to discuss the above...or I would gladly welcome him in McLean or I could drive up to Pennsylvania for a face to face to clear the air. One somehow doubts he will.

Edit: I have added pictures of Purdey factory at 314 1/2 Oxford Street and Lang at 22 Cockspur Street to the above post on Reilly's new 502 New Oxford Street, so that people not familiar with the London gun scene can understand. Thanks Bill for providing the example.
============*14 Hypothetical 5500 series TEXT ============

*14 Hypothetical J.C. "5500" Serial Number series early/mid 1840's:

There are two (possibly four) extant SxS percussion guns from apparently the mid-1840's which are very similar; It may be that J.C. Reilly had a 5500 serial number series of some sort; more guns are needed to establish this point. One wonders whether this series might be connected to 4573 (above); if so it would add a good 1,000 guns to the total Reilly made.

However there is a second possibility to account for the below serial numbers; It is possible that J.C. and E.M. split their gun numbering series around 1844 well before the move to Oxford Street, E.M. keeping the 3000 series and jumping it to 8350 in 1847 and J.C. numbering guns with the 4500-5500 series and jumping those numbers to the 7000 series in 1846; again more guns are needed to establish this point.

. . .- - SN 5512 – 1845-47?, a 16 bore SxS muzzle loader shotgun, which has “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London now 502 New Oxford Street” on the rib, the only gun found so far with both addresses and it would appear numbered around the time of the move. However, the two addresses are printed a slightly different font indicating 5512 may have been brought in for maintenance after the March 1847 move and re-engraved at that time; *14a

. . .-- SN 5580 – 1845-47?, a 12 bore SxS muzzle loader shotgun, which has “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London” on the rib, (engraving and format very similar to 5512 above); *14b

. . .-- SN xxxx – 1845-47?, The engraving on 5512 and 5580 match remarkably to a 12 bore SxS percussion gun advertised by Christies with “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London” on the rib; The SN was unpublished, however, it could be part of this possible “5500 series.” *14c

. . .-- SN yyyy – 1845-47?, The engraving on 5512 and 5580 also match quite well a 16 bore Reilly SxS percussion gun with “Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London” on the rib.*14d

. . .-- SN 5991 – 1847-48?, a 17 bore SxS percussion rifle, serial numbered “5991” on the barrels. “991” is found on forend stock, hammers and ramrod. “Reilly, New Oxford Street, London” is engraved on the rib; “Reilly, London” on the side plates. The case has a post December 1847 Reilly label pasted over a Lang label from 7 Haymarket Street, from circa 1845-1848. If this serial number is part of the hypotheical “5500” JC series, then it may indicate that the series was continued for some reason into the late 1840’s ad used along-side the new “7000” series. *14e

============*14 Hypothetical 5500 series END TEXT ============
============*14 Hypothetical 5500 series FOOTNOTES ============

*14 Hypothetical J.C. "5500" number series early/mid 1840's:

. . . . .*14a - SN 512 – 1845-47?, 16 bore SxS muzzle loader shotgun, which has “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London now 502 New Oxford Street” (the two fonts are slightly different indicating the gun could have been made at 316 but brought back for maintance after the move to 502. Photo private owner.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*14b - SN 5580 – 1845-47?, 12 bore SxS muzzle loader shotgun, which has “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London”. Photo from Holts.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*14c - SN xxxx – 1845-47?, 12 bore SxS percussion gun advertised by Christies with “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London”. Photo frome Christies.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*14d - SN yyyy – 1845-47?, 16 bore SxS percussion gun advertised by Bruun-Ramussen with “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London”. Photo Swedish auction.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

============*14 Hypothetical 5500 series END FOOTNOTES ============
============*15 New Label Dec 1847 - 1856 TEXT ============

*15 December 1847 - 1856: New Label for 502 New Oxford-Street

Soon after the move, possibly around December 1847, the trade label changed to "Reilly, Gun Maker." It was rectangular shaped with scolloped corners and featured a sketch of 502 New Oxford Street. *15a

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

-- One must wonder if E.M. Reilly designed this new label. He was 30 years old at this time and he consistently demonstrated a better marketing touch, a more modern approach, more imagination and more organization than his father. Note the new "carney-barker" fonts which at the time were in fashion and compare the label to the bland, formal business card style of his father.

-- The "Gun Maker" font on the new label looks to have been deliberately carried over from the old 316 High Holborn label. It is in a sort of old English or Germanic style. That particular font continued to be used in various forms until the company declared bankruptcy in 1912.

-- The bottom line is interesting; It advertises “Large assortment always ready for India and emigrants to All Parts of the Universe.” E.M. truly had grand ambitions far beyond his time.

============*15 New Label Dec 1847 - 1856 END TEXT ============
============*15 New Label Dec 1847 - 1856 FOOTNOTES ============

*15 December 1847: New Label for 502 New Oxford-Street

*15a - Trade label changed to "Reilly, Gun Maker." It was rectangular shaped with scolloped corners and featured a sketch of 502 New Oxford Street
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

==========*15 New Label Dec 1847 - 1856 END FOOTNOTES ==========
============ *16 Early 1850: Reilly organization TEXT ============

*16 Reilly in the early 1850's: Company organization

Some business anthologies and gun history sites from this period claim that J.C. Reilly made guns, E.M. Reilly air guns, and that the company had split into two entities.*16a,*16b But, both worked from the same building used the same case labels, etc. This distinction has been made too much of. They essentially operated as one company. 1850's Reilly advertisements confirm this conclusion.*16c. (However, per the above speculation on the origin of the December 1847 label, it appears that E.M. was increasingly the doiminate force in the company.)

The 1851 census recorded Joseph Charles Reilly as living with a servant at 502 New Oxford Street. The rest of the family is not mentioned and may have gone on with their lives. It appears that Martha, J.C.’s wife had left him and was very much alive though he claimed he was a widower.*16d

There is no way to determine the size of the Reilly workforce in 1850. The 1851 census did not inquire about the number of men an employer engaged. However, there may be data for this enquiry somewhere. London: A Social History commented that London’s industries were small; “out of 24,323 employers only 80 employed over 100.” “Small workshops predominated.”*16e This data had to come from someplace and it apparently was sourced to that 1851 census though no such information is included in the questions asked. Was there a separate census of business owners?

========== *16 Early 1850: Reilly organization END TEXT ==========
========== *16 Early 1850: Reilly organization FOOTNOTES ===========

*16 Reilly in the early 1850's: Company organization

. . . . .*16a 1851 Commercial Directory:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*16b 1850 London Postal Directory: “Trades”; “Gun and Pistol Makers:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*16c – 1855 ad relationship between JC and EM
15 Sep 1855, “The Field”; It's interesting to see J.C. continued relationship to Holborn 8 years removed from that area.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*16d – 1851 Census:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*16e - Number of employees: London: A Social History:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

========== *16 Early 1850: Reilly organization FOOTNOTES ===========
Question is will they lock you away in the nutt house before you click on this thread two million times.
========== *17 1851-1888: Reilly 300 yard Shooting Range TEXT ===========

*17 1851 - late 1880's: Reilly 300 yard outdoor Shooting Range:

Advertisements from 1851 papers show that Reilly had a 300 yard shooting range near his London establishment.*17a Reputable London gun makers seemed all to have had their own ranges.

Research shows that Reilly's range was located off Wood Lane, Shepard's Bush. It was still in use through the 1880's.*17b Wood Lane was near the center of London but remained a rural area until the 1890’s when it became the site of a world’s fair.*17c A number of London gunmakers had ranges in the area, there was a pigeon shooting competition field, and a Militia range.*17d.

======== *17 1851-1888: Reilly 300 yard Shooting Range END TEXT =========
==== *17 1851-1888: Reilly 300 yard Shooting Range FOOTNOTES/ANNOTATION =====

*17 1851-late 1880's: Reilly 300 yard outdoor Shooting Range:

. . . . .*17a Crystal Palace 1851 Advertisement for 300 yard range:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*17b 1882 "Modern Sportsman" - but other ads continued until 1888. (Note mention of the "Hurlingham weight" - Hurlingham, the principle pigeon shooting club, limited pigeon guns to 7lbs 8oz beginning 1883)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*17c Shepard’s Bush: 02 October 1875, "Illustrated Sporting News"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*17d Wood Lane range:

. . . . . . . . .*17d(1) 1841 map - Wood-Lane, Shepard’s Bush was open country for years:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
p.24

. . . . . . . . .*17d(2) It began to be built up when the Wood Lane station was opened in 1863. There is a long history of rifle ranges being in the area: "A gunmaker of Bond Street owned a shooting range provided with an iron stag which ran backwards and forwards on rails. Purchasers would test their guns on this stag.."
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . .*17d(3) 1867 Print of pigeon shooting range at Shepard’s Bush:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . .*17d(4) In 1879 the military took over Wormwood Scrubs just off Wood Lane just north of Shepard’s Bush. They had ranges there but were forbidden to build structures other than the range bunkers. Sometime in the 1890's the maneuver area was guaranteed to remain open to the citizens of the neighborhood.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . .*17d(5) The buildings at Wormwood Scrubs is now a pub called "The Pavillion." The pub was built in 1861 as “The Rifle Pavilion,” named after the surrounding rifle ranges where volunteer units trained:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=== *17 1851-1888: Reilly 300 yard Shooting Range END FOOTNOTES/ANNOTATION ====
"The General Armory of England, Scotland, Ireland, and Wales: Comprising a Registry of Armorial Bearings from the Earliest to the Present Time.", 1884
https://books.google.com/books?id=WmpmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA1198&lpg
"Shooting Ground, Wood Lane, Shepherd's Bush"

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

A.B. Frost in “The Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News” April 6, 1878
"An Afternoon At Wormwood Scrubs"

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]
Thanks Dr. Drew. Those are great illustrations...they were on the Reilly line at one time but somehow disappeared. Those armed spectators outside the grounds were there to shoot pigeons which escaped. Hurlingham even adopted special rules for a pigeon which might be going to fall within the boundary but which a bystander subsequently shot. There must have been shot raining all over the place at those competitions.

The advertisement, has to be after February 1868 and before August 1885...it mentions rue Scribe, and after 1875 (mentions choke bores)..
=============== *18 1851: Crystal Palace Revolution TEXT ================

*18 1851: Crystal Palace Exposition – the Lefaucheaux revelation

Reilly exhibited at the 1851 Crystal Palace International Exposition*18a as Edward M. Reilly).*18b. This is one more indication of the increasing prominence of E.M. in company affairs. Among other items exhibited by Reilly (air guns, pistols, etc,) were examples of engraving and chasing.*18b

There were two extremely influential guns shown at the exposition. Colt showed his heavy revolver which became a sensation. However, Reilly and the UK long-gun world was much taken by the Casimir Lefaucheaux’s center-break gun, used in France since 1836.*18c Reilly, Lang and Blanch ultimately became the major advocates for the Lefaucheaux new type of break-action guns in England, something that would cause a profound technological revolution and a great deal of dispute and public wrangling amongst the UK gun-owner fraternity.

Comment: This said, one cannot overstate the impact on UK gunmaking that the colt revolver had and in particular, the fact that it was made mostly by machinery. Colt was asked to speak to the British Society of Civil Engineers in fall 1851, the first American to do so, where he discussed his methods. Numerous publications commented later on his London works and the fact that the workers finishing machine-made parts were not skilled and this in turn provoked dozens of trips by UK delegations to visit US factories. This ultimately led to Enfield establishing an “American system factory” circa 1860. The system did not arrive in Birmingham until the 1870’s. This is mentioned here because it is possible that Reilly tried elements of “The American System” later on in serial production of Prince and Green Brothers breech loaders).*18d

============= *18 1851: Crystal Palace Revolution END TEXT ================
=============== *18 1851 Crystal Palace Revolution FOOTNOTES ================

*18 1851: Crystal Palace Exposition – the Lefaucheaux revelation

. . . . .*18a – Illustration of Crystal Palace Exposition:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*18b – Reilly catalog entry:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

06 Jul 1851, “Bell’s Life”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*18c – Lefaucheaux exhibition gun:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*18d - Dissertation the effect of Samuel Colt's machinery at Crystal Palace:
https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=9164&context=etd
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

============= *18 1851 Crystal Palace Revolution END FOOTNOTES ==============
=========*19 Early 1850's: Custom Guns & Munitions TEXT ==========

*19 Reilly in the early 1850's: Custom Guns and Munitions

Reilly was making custom explosive bullets for famous hunter/explorer Sir Samuel Baker as early as 1853 when Baker wrote his book The Rifle and Hound in Ceylon. Baker in 1874 edited the book adding, “For many years I have been supplied with first rate No 10 rifles by Messrs. Reilly & Co, of Oxford Street, London, which have never become in the slightest degree deranged during the rough work of wild hunting.” *19a Sir Samuel continued to use Reilly rifles for the next 30 years.*19b

By 1856 Reilly was also marketing Col. Jacob’s SxS rifle, a muzzle loading gun designed by Jacob for use on the hot Sindhi plains. It was a short barreled gun but allegedly could reach out 1,200 yards and had a sword bayonet fitted to it. Jacob’s rifle also used an exploding bullet, made by Reilly among others.*19c

Years later in 1869 E.M. Reilly patented an exploding bullet, an idea possibly originating from his experience in working on the Baker and Jacob’s rifle cartridges (discussed in a later chapter).*19d

=======*19 Early 1850's: Custom Guns & Munitions END TEXT ========
=======*19 Early 1850's: Custom Guns & Munitions FOOTNOTES ========

*19 Reilly in the early 1850's: Custom Guns and Munitions

. . . . .*19a 1854, edited 1874: The Rifle and Hound in Ceylon, by Sir Samuel Baker: Reilly was building explosive bullets for Baker in 1854 and made rifles for him for 30 years.

. . . . . . . . . .Excerpt from 1874 edition of The Rifle and Hound in Ceylon:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .Sir Samuel Baker
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*19b 1880 Bradshaw travel guide advertisement:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*19c 1855: Col. John Jacob’s gun: Reilly also made explosive bullets for Col. John Jacob, legendary British leader of Pashtun cavalry "Jacob's Horse" in the 1840's-50's (Jacobabad in Pakistan is named after him) in the mid-1850's for his double barreled rifle which allegedly could reach out 2,000 yards. His cavalry (he was still in Persia) made a historic march to relieve the siege of Delhi in the 1857 mutiny. His grave is maintained in Jacobabad with almost cult-like status.

. . . . . . . . . .Gen Jacob
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .1857 Anglo-Indian Almanac
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .Illustrated London News
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .Jacob’s Gun
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*19d 1869: Reilly Exploding Bullet Patent:
REILLY, EDWARD MICHAEL 1259 23/04/1869 Improvements in explosive bullets and in the apparatus for making them.

. . . . . . . . . .Reilly 1869 Exploding bullet tools:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=====*19 Early 1850's: Custom Guns & Munitions END FOOTNOTES ======
===========*20 Reilly numberING Bore Sizes TEXT ===========

*20 1855: Reilly Numbering Bore Sizes before the 1855 Proof Law

In 1855 the British government required that bore sizes be stamped on barrels; Reilly, however, along with Greener and Manton, appears to have been amongst the very few gun makers stamping bore sizes for years before the formal requirement. There are several extant Reilly's with bore size stamps dating back to the early 1840’s.*20a

=========*20 Reilly numberING Bore Sizes END TEXT =========
=========*20 Reilly numbering Bore Sizes FOOTNOTES =========

*20 1855: Reilly Numbering Bore Sizes before the 1855 Proof

. . . . .4573 (early 1840’s) (Photo Terry Buffum)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .5512 (1845-47) (Photo Gene Williams)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .2008 (early 1847-56) (Photo "Wootang" BBS)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=======*20 Reilly numbering Bore Sizes END FOOTNOTES =======
=============== *21 1855: Paris Exposition Universelle TEXT=================

*21 1855: Paris Exposition Universelle

Reilly exhibited at the 1855 Paris Universelle Exposition,*21a where he received much acclaim, "all guns were sold," and "many orders were booked." The exhibit was again in the name of E.M Reilly**21b; however, advertisements make it very clear that though EM won the medals, the firm was still "Reilly, Gun Maker."*21c

In some ways the 1855 Exposition was nearly as important for the UK gun-making fraternity as the 1851 Crystal Palace exposition. Lang won a gold medal (for excellence of construction) for his center-break pin-fire, an “improved” version of the Lefaucheaux gun.*21d Lang’s gun used a single bite lump while Lefaucheaux’s guns clearly used a double bite design although Lang reinforced other aspects of the gun.

Lang’s success apparently convinced both Reilly and Blanche, close collaborators and pretty prescient (credit E.M,?), to research, construct and market the guns during the next year with dramatic results. This will be discussed further in chapter 23 – Origin of the UK pin-fire and 24 – Reilly begins to make pin fires.

For the record, In the mid-1850’s Reilly’s foreman was named fnu “Le Gerant” per an advertisemtnent for a rifle for sale on consignment.*21e ("Le Gérant" of course means "the manager" in French....thus this may not be a name at all..just another expression of Reilly's Catholic francophilia).

============= *21 1855: Paris Exposition Universelle END TEXT===============
========== *21 1855: Paris Exposition Universelle FOOTNOTES ============

*21 1855 Paris Exposition Universelle

. . . . .*21a Paris Unverselle Exposition
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*21b Reilly entry
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*21c 1855 Reilly ads in 1855
12 Feb 1855 London Daily News
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

25 May 1855 Home News
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

14 Dec1855, London Daily News (rare J.C. stand alone ad but with 502 New Oxford Street):
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*21d Lang gold medal for worksmanship from the 1855 Paris Universelle – taken from his 1865 trade label:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*21e Le Gerant, Reilly manager?
16 Aug 1856 – A gentleman hawking his breech-loader through Reilly.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

======== *21 1855: Paris Exposition Universelle END FOOTNOTES ==========
Jumping forward three or four years because the next several posts deal with the fallout from the 1851 Crystal Palace fair - break-action breech-loaders.

============= *22 1857: J.C. Reilly retires TEXT ===============

*22 September 1857: J.C. Reilly Retires; January 1864 he passed away:

In September 1857 J.C. Reilly retired*22a to his country estates at Bourn End, Cranfield, Bedfordshire,*22b where he died a wealthy man in January 1864.*22c E.M. was one of the executors of his will.*22d His last guns in the "7000" series were engraved with Julius Caesar's words "Vini, Vidi, Vici" ("I came, I saw, I conquered")*22e possibly as his swan song story of his life. "Formerly Gun-Maker, London" was placed on his tombstone at his request.*22f

Speculation: J.C.'s retirement appeared to have been quite abrupt. At the time the debate over center-break breech-loaders, a French invention, divided families and flame wars raged in the British press. One wondered if J.C., the traditionalist, broke with his son E.M, a very early proponent of the Lefaucheux break-action gun, over this issue - much like what happened between the Greener's father/son a few years later. However, based on 1855 advertisements in "The Field "broke" is not the correct word - rather a more accurate description of JC's retirement should be something like, "JC surrendered the field to his son."*22g

=========== *22 1857: J.C. Reilly retires END TEXT =============
=========== *22 1857: J.C. Reilly retires FOOTNOTES =============

*22 September 1857: J.C. Reilly Retires; January 1864 he passed away:

. . . . .*22a Sep 1857 J.C. announces his retirement: 02 Sep 1857 edition of "London Daily News
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*22b Bourn End: Voting records, picture:
1858 Bedfordshire voting records:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

1861 Census:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*22c Death certificate: (Sally’s ancestry.com page). £7,000 in 1860 would be worth about $1,400,000 today.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Probate:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*22d J.C. Reilly’s Will: (Sally’s ancestry.com page)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*22e Veni Vidi Vici found on J.C.’s “7000” series guns over the period 1854-1857.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*22f J.C.’s Tombstone (Photo from Sally’s Ancestry.com page)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*22g 15 Sep 1855, “The Field”: JC discusses passing sectors of gunmaking on to EM.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=========== *22 1857: J.C. Reilly retires END FOOTNOTES =============
================= Pause 2 and Questions ==================

PAUSE-2: We're about 3/10th of the way through the Reilly documentation. I just want to check to see if there are any objections so far. To reiterate the evidence above appears to show that:

1st phase 1812-1847: - above
-- Reilly began making guns around 1828 in addition to dealing in quality used guns.
-- By 1831 he was selling guns in the white to country dealers
-- By 1835 he was possibly selling guns in the white to London gunmakers.
-- He was a pistol maker as well as a long-gun maker
-- In 1835 he moved to 316 High Holborn.
-- About 1837 he quit numbering pistols but continued to assemble and engrave them
-- He did the same with air guns in the 1840's. E.M. was billed as the expert,
-- His son E.M. may have become a full partner in the firm in 1840 at the age of 23.
-- He was boring his own barrels as early as 1837. *(Not sure in spite of claims: this to be discussed further on Chap 35 Reilly Barrels)

2nd phase 1847-1857 (minus break-action information):
-- 1847 Reilly moved to 502 New Oxford Street.
-- A New label was used for a few months
-- A label was created Dec 1847 which continued to 1856.
-- Mainline serial numbers jumped up 5000 numbers from about 3350 to 8350 with the move in 1847.
-- J.C. kept SN's for himself as early as January 1846..called the "7000" series ending in 1857 with his retirement
-- EM represented the company at the 1851 and 1855 World's Fairs.
-- Though they had different entries in Post Office and Manufacturing anthology books at the time, J.C. and E.M. mostly used the same advertisements, worked from the same building and used the same trade/case labels.
-- The company made custom guns and munitions for famous hunters and military heroes in the 1850's.
-- J.C. retired in 1857 - he died in 1864.

Welcome other observations. (I have a lot more material but I can think of several questions I'd like to have answered myself). Thanks

(And by the way, why post obvious historical documentation? Simply because the gun world is filled up with urban-legend and "It was said so it has to be true" "oral or internet history." When this line began to be researched in November 2015 contradictions immediately surfaced and the author decided to "go back to primary source material and take nothing for granted.")

================= Pause 2 and Questions ==================
======= 1852-56: Pin-fire Guns in UK; Part 1 - Hodges & Lang TEXT ========

*23 1852-56: Break Action, Pin-Fire Guns in UK., PART 1, Hodges & Lang

This is not meant to be a detailed recounting of how Lefauceaux’s break-action pin-fire breech-loader conquered the UK and changed gun history. However, the facts must be reviewed in brief so that Reilly’s part in it can be understood.

Castor Lefaucheaux took out a patent for a break action gun in France in 1836. Several of these guns made their way to the UK over the years but were generally ignored or regarded as curiosities. However, at the 1851 Crystal Palace Exposition, Lefaucheaux showed a single barrel pin-fire center-break gun per above.*23a It created a lot of interest. Lefaucheaux did not take out a patent on the design in UK so it was free for the taking. The gun was rediculed by many of the UK gun establishment, in particlur William Greener (senior), who called it a “French crutch gun.”

However, a young 18 year old apprentice gunsmith named Edward Charles Hodges*23b especially took notice. Following the closing of the fair, he embarked on a project to build a copy of the gun, which after some time was completed, probably one speculates in late 1852. It Is not known how he did this; did he buy a Lefaucheux (unlikely) or did he handle the gun and carefully take measurements and sketches? Over the following few months he worked to convince Joseph Lang to make and sell the gun. There is no information on when Hodges completed his trial gun; neither he nor his sons ever commented.

Joseph Lang had started out in the 1820’s essentially selling guns Joseph Manton sent to him on consignment. When Manton went bankrupt in 1826, Lang bought his left-over stock, barrel borers etc. For the next 25 years he made guns at 7 Haymarket Street, London.*23c By 1830 he had created a 28 yard shooting gallery in a neighboring building which became well known and even advertised access to two billard tables for his customers.*23d

In 1852 he moved his shop to 22 Cockspur Street where the company remained until 1874.*23e Joseph Lang died in 1869 and his firm was subsequently run by his son. Probably in 1853 after his move Lang finally succumbed to Hodges’ entreaties, bought Hodges' gun, and began working on the center-break concept. By early 1854 he had a working gun ready for sale which followed pretty much the design of Lefaucheaux’s original gun although beefing up parts of it. He also tried to make it look as much like a percussion gun as possible, with wooden fore-end, etc., no doubt thinking that familiarity in looks would help its acceptance (credit Steve Nash). His gun, however, used one bite on the lump, where Lefaucheaux’s original concept used two. (Steve Nash)

Note: The original guns apparently did not have forcing cones in front of the breech following Lefaucheaux examples; British gunmakers soon changed this.*23f In addition per the comments there was the distinct possibility that Lang early on was using Liège made barrels, perhaps with lumps, and that this continued into 1856-57.

In a pamphlet he published in January 1857 to hawk the pin-fire Lang wrote that he had been shooting break action pin-fires for three years.*23g This would seems to indicate that he began shooting his own guns in early 1854, which is as good a guess for the date of his first pin-fire gun as any and also accepted by pin-fire scholar Stephen Nash. The earliest extant datable Lang pin-fire is from 1858. One well-known British gunsmith has stated that he believes he may be able to locate two Lang pin-fire center-break guns with bills of sale dated to 1854. However, no documentation has been forthcoming.

Lang continued to refine his gun and in 1855 he showed it at the Paris Exposition Universelle and won a gold medal for “excellence of construction.”*23h Interestingly, from 1854-1856 very few Lang advertisements for the pin-fire, indeed none all, can be found by this author, although the gun was discussed regularly in "The Field."*23i Nevertheless, a storm of controversy, a print “flame war,” erupted in the British press over the concept with a very conservative group of gun owners adamantly maintaining that the “crutch gun” could not stand up to strong charges of British powder with a few equally strong willed upper-class users touting its convenience, safety and general viability.*23j

Note: Lang later comes across as insufferably arrogant, witness his 1858 advertisements for his guns compared to the "rubbish" being produced by others*23k, and a written exchange he had in June 1859 with the editor of "The Field" over whether he was going to submit guns for the July 1859 "The Field" trial breech-loaders vs muzzle loaders.*23l


===== 1852-56: Pin-fire Guns in UK; Part 1 - Hodges & Lang END TEXT======
=== *23 1852-56: Pin-fire Guns in UK; Part 1 - Hodges & Lang FOOTNOTES ====

*23 1854-56: Pin-Fire Guns in UK Part 1; Hodges & Lang.

. . . . .*23a Lefaucheaux center-break, pin-fire at Crystal Palace, 1851
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*23b E.C. Hodges
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*23c 7, Haymarket Street:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*23d Lang Shooting Gallery: - And does that layout....casual observers sitting and standing in front of the shooter....not look distinctly unsafe?
. . . . . . . . . .original print
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .Today’s Haymarket Hotel exterior – location of Lang’s Shooting Gallery
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .Today’s Haymarket Hotel, “The Shooting Gallery” room
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .Opened again in 1859 – 14 Sep 1859 Bell's Life reference to Lang's shooting gallery. "Adjoining" was clearly a stretch.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .25 Jul 1830, "Bell's Life" - earliest report of Lang's shooting gallery:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*23e 22 Cockspur Street, where Lang was located from 1852-1874 and where the British center-break pin-fire was born. Did Lang use Liège-made barrels and lumps?
. . . . . . . . . .22 Cockspur Street
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .Map
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


= *23 1852-56: Pin-fire Guns in UK; Part 1 - Hodges & Lang FOOTNOTES BELOW =
== *23 1852-56: Pin-fire Guns in UK; Part 1 - Hodges & Lang FOOTNOTES CONT. ==

. . . . . . . . . .Current building:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*23f 27 December 1857, “The Field” re original forcing cones in Lefaucheaux + the apparent importation/use of Liège-made center-break barrels (complete with lumps?):
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*23g Lang pamphlet: Oldest extant Lang pinfire is dated 1858. Source: Blanche notebook, Royal Armouries
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*23h Lang gold medal
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*23i. 28 Jul 1855, "The Field": Typical Lang ad from 1855-1858: No mention of breech-loaders or pin-fires.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*23j 22 November 1856, “The Field”: Letter to “The Field” defending break-action breech loaders
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*23k: Lang denigrates others' pin-fires:
. . . . . . . . . .31 July 1858, "The Field"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .21 Aug 1858 "The Field":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*23l Jun 1859 letter by Lang to “The Field” and a portion of "The Field"'s stinging response:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

== *23 1852-56: Pin-fire Guns in UK; Part 1 - Hodges & Lang END FOOTNOTES ==
======= *24 1852-56: Pin-fire Guns in UK; Part 2 - Reilly & Blanch TEXT ========

*24 1852-56: Break Action, Pin-Fire Guns in UK., PART 2, Reilly & Blanch

Shortly after the end of the 1855 Paris Universelle, William Blanch, who had taken over the Blanch and Sons company from his father John, sent an employee to Paris to buy a pin-fire. The receipt for his purchase, a Beringer around-trigger-guard-lever, break-action pin-fire gun, exists and is dated December 1855.*24a

The Blanch’s and Reilly’s appear to have been friends and collaborators for many years. It seems that Blanch and Reilly both then began to develop their own break-action guns reverse engineering the Beringer Lefaucheaux. The difficulties they faced are enumerated in Blanch’s obituary.*24b Quote: “But he had also the even more arduous task of teaching his men to make the new gun. The barrel men had to be instructed how to make the lump instead of a screw breech-plug. The percussioner had to be broken into the task of making actions on Lefaucheaux’s system. Everything was new and the only moral supoport in the task arose from the fact that Joseph Lang had some time previously entered the same field of research….”

E.M. Reilly writing in December 1857 noted that his firm had been examining the Lefaucheaux concept for 10 or 15 years.*24c Given Reilly’s propensity for gambling on technology and his connections to France, almost surely he considered building one and some lines he wrote in 1885 seem to indicate he experimented with the gun after the Crystal Palace fair. Certainly E.M. was not overly concerned with the difficulties of building such a gun or the cost of the machinery, the sole sticking point again being "instructing the workers," something he wrote about in 1857 (40 years before the Blanch book/obit).*24d. He definitely was building breech-loading pin-fire guns as early as mid-1856, perhaps earlier as discussed in more detail below

The three London gunmakers, Lang, Blanch and Reilly are universally credited as the London manufacturers who opened the doors to the center-break-action concept in the UK. It’s interesting that as late as December 1856 “The Field” still seemed confused about the various types of center-break pin-fires.*24e

And this brings the story to summer of 1856 which sparked a sporting gun revolution in UK and the world.

Note: the pin-fire was not the only center-break gun inspired by LeFaucheaux. Lancaster built his own break-action center-fire “base-fire” gun which might have conquered the market had he not tried to limit the sales of ammuntions to those of his own make.*24f

===== 1852-56: Pin-fire Guns in UK; Part 2 - Reilly & Blanche END TEXT ======
===== *24 1852-56: Pin-fire Guns in UK; Part 2 - Reilly & Blanch FOOTNOTES ======

*24 1854-56: Break Action Pin-Fire Guns in UK PART 2; Reilly & Blanch

. . . . .*24a Berringer receipt Blanch; Source: Blanch notebook, Royal Armouries
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*24b William Blanch Obituary and an account of Blanch’s entry into the breech-loading controversy:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*24c Reilly looking at Lefaucheaux guns for 15 years
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*24d Reilly on expense of making the gun:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*24e 20 Dec 1856, “The Field”: Descriptions of Lefaucheux, Beringer
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*24f Lancaster “Base-Fire” gun: (Photo from Diggory Hadoke).
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=== *24 1852-56: Pin-fire Guns in UK; Part 2 - Reilly & Blanche END FOOTNOTES ===
======= Pause 3 :Liège made barrels and Lumps at the Uk origin? ======

PAUSE-3:: Did Hodges, Lang and and possibly early-on Blanch and Reilly initially bring in barrels with lumps for their early SxS pin-fires from Liège?

--I Just want to point out the possibility that Hodges, Lang, possibly even Blanch and Reilly might have been early on using barrels, possibly with lumps made in Liège. Lefaucheaux's guns were made in Liège. This is not mentioned much in gun history (except by Raimey and Stephen Nash). One wonders if it were a "dirty little secret." (This said, Reilly's barrels on the two extant 1856 guns were proofed in London).

27 December 1857, "The Field" - Letter by E.M. Reilly: Barrels actually made in this country?
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

20 Dec 1856, “The Field”: Lefaucheaux made in Liège:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Steve Nash also had this to say:
"British makers bought Belgian actions such as the Bastin action with sliding barrels (Google Purdey Bastin slide action for a fine example), to be made up in Britain. The Bastin action was used by a number of British makers, and it was one of the first non-Lefaucheux pinfire actions in Britain (a Francotte with Bastin action was used in the Trial of 1859). Some makers brought in barrelled actions (or possibly whole guns) from liege as well, with a British maker's name on the rib and Belgian action and barrel proofs as evidence. And some makers operated in both London and Liege, such as the Masu Brothers."

Purdey with a Bastin action:
https://www.morphyauctions.com/jamesdjulia/item/3169-394/

===== Pause 3 :Liège made barrels and Lumps at the Uk origin? =====
======= *25 1856: Reilly builds breech-loading pin-fires TEXT ==========

*25 1856: Reilly Begins Building Break Action Pin-Fire Guns

Reilly, began building center-break guns as early as 1856. (Note: E.M. Reilly claimed he experimented with the concept shortly after the 1851 Crystal Palace exhibition but abandoned it as commercially unviable - whether this is true or not is not verifiable). The first datable advertisement for a Reilly center-break gun is from "The Law Journal"," 16 August 1856, with follow-on ads in the fall of 1856. *25a (see chapter 26 below).

There is a 12 bore pin-fire rifle shell stamped "Reilly, London" and dated 1855.*25b It almost certainly was made under contract and imported from France. The cartridge's existance shows only that Reilly might have been selling pin-fire shells in 1855. It does, however, highlight Reilly's involvement in center-break guns at the time, surely a very small niche business then but one for which a sharp visionary businessman like E.M. could see a future.

This said there is always the possibility that Reilly had constructed a pin-fire rifle in 1855. Blanche seemed to believe that Reilly was working on a pin-fire gun when he bought his Beringer in Paris. And, the earliest existing Reilly pin-fire, perhaps the earliest extant UK made pin-fire period, is SN 10054, a 12 bore rifle.*25c (see below).

In the 26 December 1857 edition of "The Field" a long letter from E.M. was published detailing the state of the center-break pin-fire gun controversy.*25d E.M. stated that until about summer 1857 most of his sales of pin-fire breech-loaders were sold as "novelties."*25e It wasn't until then that the whole break-action concept began to be taken seriously in UK.

E.M. by that time had taken a major technological business risk. Per an advertisement from June 1857 he had 100 center-break breech-loaders in various states of build and ready to be customized.*2f He gambled on the market by devoting fully 33% of his production capacity to making breech-loaders. This was some two years before Purdey made his first. Boss didn’t make a center-break gun until 1858. Harris Holland made his first ever six center-break guns in 1857, etc.

As commented below Reilly for years had connections to Paris and Liège. There is some evidence that all early pin-fire makers in the UK, Hodges, Lang, Blanche and Reilly, may have been at some point dealing with Liège for actions, barrels, etc. There is one Reilly pin-fire from early 1860's with faint Liège proof marks on it overlain by London proof marks.*25g This will be investigated further and separately.)

======= *25 1856: Reilly builds breech-loading pin-fires END TEXT ==========
===== *25 1856: Reilly builds breech-loading pin-fires FOOTNOTES ======

*25 1856-1867: Reilly Begins Building Break Action Pin-Fire Guns

. . . . .*25a First datable Reilly advertisements for "Fusils a Bascule."
16 Aug 1856, "The Law Journal
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . *25b 12 bore pin-fire rifle shell stamped "Reilly, London" and dated 1855. (Photo Aaron Newcomber)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . *25c SN 10054 discussed below:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . *25d 26 December 1857 edition of "The Field" a long letter from E.M. was published detailing the state of the center-break pin-fire gun controversy.
text of Reilly's letter to "The Field" published 26 Dec 1857
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*25e E.M. stated that until about summer 1857 most of his sales of pin-fire breech-loaders were sold as "curiosities."
26 Dec 1857, “The Field”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . *25f June 1857 he had 100 center-break breech-loaders in various states of build and ready to be customized.
26 Jun 1857, “The Field”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . *25g SN 12543: What's interesting is how close the 1978 auction house got to the date of that gun. They said 1860-65. Our chart reads Late 1862
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

===== *25 1856: Reilly builds breech-loading pin-fires END FOOTNOTES =====
=========== *26 Mid-1856: New Trade/Case Label TEXT ============

*26 Mid-1856: Trade/Case Label Changes

Reilly case labels changed after the 1855 Paris Universelle.*26a
. .-- The new label illustrated the 1851 and 1855 world's fair medals*26b
. .-- It highlighted "Fusils Ă  bascule," French for center-break guns (made on the "Lefaucheux principle").
. .-- The new label also advertised “Improved Breech Loaders” referring to guns such as the Prince Patent bolt action and the Terry Patent breech loaders which he marketed and promoted.*26c
. .-- The bottom line in the label has been changed to read "emigrants to All Parts of the Globe," slightly scaling back his shipping capabilities from “the Universe” as used on the 1847-1855 labels.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Efforts have been made to try to date when exactly this label was adopted because it has obvious implications for when Reilly began making and selling certer-break guns (see below). The first dated newspaper ad so far found with the phrase "Fusils Ă  bascule" appeared in "The Law Journal"," 16 Aug 1856.*26d There are other 1856 Reilly advertisements for "Fusils Ă  bascule" or "Fusils bascule" in certain books and tour guides but the exact dates these were published are not clear.*26e

There is a good chance, however, that Reilly had begun making the new labels before summer 1856. The oldest extant Reilly pin-fire 10054 above, which would date per the chart to late summer 1856, was already using the new label in that case.*26f

========= *26 Mid-1856: New Trade/Case Label END TEXT ==========
========= *26 Mid-1856: New Trade/Case Label FOOTNOTES ==========

*26 Mid-1856: Trade/Case Label Changes

. . . . . *26a Reilly case labels changed after the 1855 Paris Universelle.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . *26b The new label illustrated the 1851 and 1855 world's fair medals
.............London 1851 Bronze Medal".......................Napoleon III prize from the 1855 Paris Universelle:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . *26c highlighted "Fusils Ă  bascule," and Improved Breech loaders:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . *26d "Fusils Ă  bascule" appeated in mass market advertisments in summer 1856:
. . . . . . . . . .16 Aug 1856, "The Law Journal
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .04 Oct 1856, "Illustrated London News"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .11 Oct 1856, “Illustrated London News”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*26e "Fusils Ă  bascule" or "Fusils bascule" in certain books and tour guides but the exact dates these were published are not clear.
. . . . . . . . . .1856 Dod's Peerage, Baronetage and Knightage of Great Britain and Ireland;[/b] "Fusils Ă  bascule." The volume was printed in 1856 (month not indicated); the forward written by Dod was dated 1856 (month not indicated) (unknown if it were the beginning or end of the year).
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .Cheshire Directories
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*26f SN 10054 Label with the post 1855 medals
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

======= *26 Mid-1856: New Trade/Case Label END FOOTNOTES ========
========== *27 1856-1858: Extant Reilly pin-fire Guns TEXT =========

*27 1856-1858: Reilly Extant Break Action Pin-Fire Guns

Following are the earliest extant Reilly center-break pin-fire guns dating from late summer 1856 to spring 1858 (a reminder: London guns were typically serial numbered when ordered; Reilly delivered his guns within 3 weeks of an order as opposed to 9 months-2 years for others, thus the Reilly “spec” guns above, may have been serial numbered when bought and then delivered pretty close to the order date)(this is speculation):

. . .-- SN 10054 - The oldest Reilly center-break gun so far found. It is a "Lefaucheux/Lang" type long forward-underlever, single-bite type pin-fire 15 bore SxS rifle engraved "Reilly, 502 New Oxford-Street, London" on the rib. It is in a period case, with the post 1855 Paris Universelle label with "Fusils Ă  bascule" on it. It would date per the chart to late summer 1856, about the time the first Reilly ad for "Fusils Ă  bascule" appeared in the London Press (mentioned above).*27a

. . .-- SN 10128 - The second oldest existing Reilly pin-fire. It is a 16 bore SxS Shotgun, a Lang/Lefaucheux long underlever, single bite, pin-fire, made a couple of months afterwards circa December 1856.*27b

. . .-- SN 10355 (address unknown) - 12 bore SxS shotgun, pin-fire hammer gun with leather case and original labels and implements. No additional details are available from at the time a rather obscure US auction house. Per the chart it would date to mid-1857.*27c

. . .-- SN 10655 - The fourth oldest extant Reilly break-action SxS gun found to date: It is a "Lefaucheux/Lang" type short forward-underlever, single-bite type pin-fire 12 bore SxS shotgun with "E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford-Street, London" on the rib, probably numbered around the time of the below mentioned "The Field" trial - March 1858.*27d (Note the E.M. Reilly name but without the “& Co.” on the rib; there is one Reilly advertisement in a late 1857 newspaper using “E.M. Reilly” rather than. just “Reilly.”)*27e

======== *27 1856-1858: Extant Reilly pin-fire Guns END TEXT =======
======== *27 1856-1858: Extant Reilly pin-fire Guns FOOTNOTES =======

*27 1856-1858: Reilly Extant Break Action Pin-Fire Guns

. . . . .*27a - SN 10054 - The oldest Reilly center-break gun so far found late summer 1856 (photo "the salesroom")
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .Case – with medals
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .Receiver/barrel flats
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .Rib
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . .10054 Label with the post 1855 medals
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*27b - SN 10128 - The second oldest existing Reilly pin-fire circa December 1856. (photo from Holts)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*27c - SN 10355 (address unknown) - mid-1857. No photo

. . . . .*27d - SN 1065510655 - March 1858. (Photos from private New Zealand owner)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*27e - 27 Dec 1857, New Army List
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

====== *27 1856-1858: Extant Reilly pin-fire Guns END FOOTNOTES =====
========== *28 !858-1860: Reilly trials his guns TEXT ============

*28 1858-1860: Reilly Develops and Trials Break Action Pin-Fire Guns

E.M. Reilly participated in the April 1858 trial pitting muzzle-loaders against breech-loaders run by "The Field."*28a His breech-loader handed a W.W. Greener muzzle-loader an historic defeat in this trial; Greener later tried to denigrate breech-loaders in his 1858 book, and was called out in the most definitive fashion by "The Field."*28b

By spring 1858 Reilly was heavily invested in building SxS pinfire rifles, not a new concept for him; the oldest extant Reilly is a 15 bore rifle, but certainly with an added emphasis.*28c

By fall 1858 Reilly, along with Lang and Blanche, the original proponents of break-action guns in UK, was reported to be "overdone with orders for his breech-loaders" per "The Field"*28d; The article specifically praised Reilly’s 16 bore pin-fire used in the competition.*28e "The Field" commented in the same aricle that at this time ¾ of the orders for new guns in London were for breech loaders.*28f

Reilly provided 4 guns for the follow-on muzzle-loader/break-action breech-loader trial run by the "The Field" in July 1859, all allegedly built on the "lever under fore-arm" English standard single-bite "Lefaucheux/Lang" principle per a sketch in "The Field."*28g

Comment: Several of the most prestigious London gunmakers then involved in making breech-loader pinfires did not enter the 1859 trials. This was commented on by "The Field."*28h[/b]. These gunmakers would have been competing against "the country makers" - the "hoi Paloi" - and had everything to lose - their reputation - and nothing to gain. One supposes this was a form of commercial censorship at the time. But Reilly was there! And so was the press ("The Field").

However, at this time Reilly also was making guns with the under-lever located under the trigger guard Beringer-style per a late 1859 book sketch;*28i Whether one of these guns participated in the trials is unknown. (The gun pictured in the sketch could well be a center-break Beriinger-style pin-fire SxS shotgun sold at a recent auction – serial number unkown).*28j

========== *28 !858-1860: Reilly trials his guns END TEXT ============
========== *28 !858-1860: Reilly trials his guns FOOTNOTES ============

*28 1856-1860: Reilly Develops and Trials Break Action Pin-Fire Guns

. . . . .*28a 17 April 1858 “The Field” trial:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*28b Greener later tried to denigrate breech-loaders in his 1858 book, and was called out in the most definitive fashion by "The Field."
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*28c Reilly building pinfire rifles: 13 March 1858, “The Field”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*28d Overdone with orders
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*28e The article specifically praised Reilly’s 16 bore pin-fire used in the competition.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*28f. "The Field" commented in the same aricle that at this time Âľ of the orders for new guns in London were for breech loaders.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

======== *28 !858-1860: Reilly trials his guns FOOTNOTES CONT BELOW ==========
========== *28 !858-1860: Reilly trials his guns FOOTNOTES CONT ============

. . . . .*28g. Reilly provided 4 guns for the follow-on muzzle-loader/break-action breech-loader trial run by the "The Field" in July 1859, all allegedly built on the "lever under fore-arm" English standard single-bite "Lefaucheux/Lang" principle per a sketch in "The Field." *25
. . . . . . . . . .Results:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .sketch of one of the Reilly's at the 1859 trial:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .SN 14469 – hinged fore-end
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .28h 17 July 1859, "the Field" - Purdey, Boss, Haris Holland dodge the challenge:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .28i However, at this time Reilly also was making guns with the under-lever located under the trigger guard Beringer-style per a late 1859 book sketch;
Book Reilly Beringer Here is an 1860 book which has a sketch of such a Reilly. Sketch was probably made in 1859.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .28j whether one of these guns participated in the trials is unknown. (The gun pictured in the sketch could well be a center-break Beringer-style pin-fire SxS shotgun sold at a recent auction – serial number unknown).
U-L sold at auction: 1859-60 Beringer style Lefaucheaux center-break gun, and obviously a classy one made in 315 Oxford Street.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

========== *28 !858-1860: Reilly trials his guns END FOOTNOTES ============
It,s a pinfire...
============ *29 Reilly - "retailer" vs "gunmaker" - analysis TEXT ============
Note: this analysis is based on the documented information above:


*29 Observation re "retailer" vs "gunmaker" from an analysis of extant 1856-58 Reilly pin-fires:
-- SN 10054 (Late summer 1856),
-- SN 10128 (December 1856),
-- SN 10355 (mid 1857), and
-- SN 10655 (March 1858):

. . .-- 10054 & 10128 late summer and December 1856: In fall 1856, there were virtually no outworkers in London who could have made 10054 or 10128. Both guns are early Lang/Lefaucheux forward under-lever pin-fire SxS's.
. . . . . .- Lang was making pin-fire Lefaucheux style breech loaders but not for the trade (perhaps he had made and sold some 40 pin fire guns over two years by this time and that is probably a high estimate; per his serial numbering system, Lang was making about 75 guns total a year from 1830-1860...perhaps by 1855 100 a year). Per Lang's own pamphlet he began to make such guns in January 1854. He did not advertise them. Yet Lang won a publicized gold medal at the 1855 Paris Universelle for his breech loader - his work on the concept was not a secret.
. . . . . .- E.C. Hodges, the original designer of Lang's break-action gun, had completed his apprenticeship in 1852 and was making center-break actions for a dozen different makers including prestige names by 1858-60, labeled with his stamp on the water table - not found on Reilly's.*29a
. . . . . .- Per above Blanche claimed he made his first pin-fire breech-loader in 1856, this after traveling to Paris to buy a center-break, under-lever around trigger-guard, Berringer style pin-fire in late 1855 after the Paris Universelle and reverse engineering it (as detailed above). (Note: The first known Blanche advertisement in the UK press for a center-break pin-fire was in 1858).*29b Again as detailed above Blanche explained in his later book that at the time the change-over from muzzle-loaders entailed a massive alteration in the manufacturing processes for guns from a breech-plug to a lump, from locks to actions, etc. - this in the face of a very conservative clientele.
. . . . . .- Reilly, thus was on his own when he obviously embarked on a similar path to that of Blanche in 1855 or early 1856 to manufacture and sell the French invention.

. . .-- 10355 mid-1857: Similar conclusions (without additional details on the gun). Note: By mid 1857 there were likely less than 150 British built pin-fires being shot in the UK. Reilly, however, per the 26 June 1857 edition of "The Field" above, was building 100 pin-fire "spec" (speculation- i.e. "awaiting a buyer") guns (a long-time Reilly practice). This gun 10355 was probably one of them.

. . .-- 10655, March 1858: This is a Lefaucheux-style 12 bore SxS shotgun pin-fire breech-loader: At the time it was numbered, March 1858, believe there were still very few gun-making firms or gun parts makers in general in all of UK that could have made it or portions of it – barrels & actions, and it's twins submitted by Reilly for the April 1858 "The Field" breech-loader vs muzzle-loader trials.
. . . . . .- Although London gun-makers by 1858 were getting involved in experimenting with the concepts and had begun in some case building a few guns (indicating an infrastructure in London was being created), again, the two firms, who could possibly have made 10655 in spring 1858 were Lang and Blanche. However, Lang and Blanche had orders aplenty themselves - they likely had no time to manufacture for "the trade."
. . . . . .- As for Birmingham by the follow-on July 1859 trials a Birmingham gunsmith "Elliott" submitted two "patent" pin-fire break-actions for the trials,*29c; (their recoil per "The Field" was so severe that they were virtually unshootable). Yet the first main-stream Birmingham-made center-break gun or the manufacture of center-break actions was still several years in the future. Samuel Breedon c1861 may have been one of the first.*29d

. . .-- Thus, the most logical conclusion is that the extant Reilly pin-fires from this era 10054, 10128, 10355, and 10655 were indeed made by Reilly lock, stock and barrel; no one else could have done it for him. It well may be that 10054 is the earliest UK made pin-fire center-break gun in existence.

(These conclusions are per historical data currently available on the early origins of UK center-break pin-fires. For the record Haris Holland made his first breech loader in 1857 although he advertised them in Sep 1856; Boss in 1858; Purdey in late 1858 or early 1859.)

========== *29 Reilly - "retailer" vs "gunmaker" - analysis END TEXT ==========
========== *29 Reilly - "retailer" vs "gunmaker" - analysis FOOTNOTES ==========

*29 Observation re "retailer" vs "gunmaker" from an analysis of extant 1856-58 Reilly pin-fires:

. . . . .*29a Hodges making and signing actions: Two from Steve Nash's pin fire line (Photos by Steve Nash).
. . . . . . . . . .Neibour with a Hodges action Stamp
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .Blissett with a Hodges action:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*29b14 Jul 1858, "The Field" - first known ad by Blanche mentioned breech-loaders
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*29c Birmingham pin-fires at the 1859 trials
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*29d Samuel Breedon (Breeden), Birmingham breech loading action maker, 1861.
. . . . . . . . . .Breedon Stamp
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .1861 Census. Living in Saltey Washwood area. Wife Charlotte. 3 daughters Emma, Charlotte, Luisa. Occupation listed as “Breech Loading action manufacturer and master employing 8 men.” Likely one of the first Birmingham pin-fire action makers.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

======== *29 Reilly - "retailer" vs "gunmaker" - analysis END FOOTNOTES ========
===== Pause 4 Reilly making pin-fires 1855-1859 REQUEST COMMENTS=============

This is an academic investigation. There are gun experts on this line who have some strong opinions about Reilly, So, before we go further...and this study will be delving into Reilly made breech-loading rifles from this period .... please add your comments, objections, and document same...to the below statement. We all need clarity on this very important UK gun-making period. If I've got it wrong..please correct the record:

. . .-- Thus, the most logical conclusion is that the extant Reilly pin-fires from this era 10054, 10128, 10355, and 10655 were indeed made by Reilly lock, stock and barrel; no one else could have done it for him. It well may be that 10054 is the earliest UK made pin-fire center-break gun in existence.

Or if one is convinced that Reilly was only a "RETAILER" during this period, please post the evidence.

======== Pause 4 Reilly making pin-fires 1855-1859 END REQUEST================
You need psychiatric help....bad
==================== On ===================

Well, there has been one quite educational response (very Tennesseean) to the above assertion. i.e. that Reilly built those four pin-fire breech loaders from 1856-1858.

I'd like to go back to the obvious though. Without this line of research, no-one would have a clue about when those four guns were made. Just dating the guns and labels was a major academic accomplishment. and was the initial goal of this line.

The next few posts will deal with
-- Reilly and the post Enfield 1853 percussion rifle,
-- Reilly and breech loading military style rifles 1855-1860,
-- the 1858 opening of a new manufacturing facility at 315 Oxford Street with an attached shooting gallery
-- several changes in the names of the company
-- changes in the labels...

Taking the story up to 1861

- and take a look at the paragraph added to the Crystal Palace exhibition; I decided I could not leave out the enormous impact Colt had on British manufacturing. It effected Reilly later on.

And as always if someone believes Reilly was only a RETAILER during this period...please post the evidence.

==================== On ===================
========== *30 1853-1860 Reilly builds Military percussion rifles TEXT ==========

*30 1853-1860: Reilly building innovative Military Grade Muzzle Loading Rifles:

Reilly always built rifles – from the very beginning.**30a Throughout the late 1840’s and 1850’s he offered well-built muzzle loading rifles to officers and immigrants going out to the colonies, quite often in .577 caliber..so they could use military grade ball. In 1853 Arsenal adopted the .577 calibur Enfield rifle-musket, perhaps the finest percussion rifle of its day (although defencies appeared during the Crimean War). Reilly of course built Enfields and Enfield variants since Arsenal did not seem interested in protecting the industrial specifications (as they later did).

But over the next few years from 1853 to 1860 Reilly also was involved in making and developiing other muzzle loading ideas from rifling to bullets. Some worked out. Others didn’t. But, Reilly was present during this period on the cutting manufacturing edge for anything that might sell. Out of this orginal manufacturing/marketing interest came an apparent Reilly obsession – i.e. win an Arsenal contract for a military rifle and make a fortune and E.M., the technology gambler, accepted the task and the risk (discussed later).

Following are a few of the percussion rifles Reilly made during this decade:

. . . . .1853 Enfield- Rifle-Musket. (Disclaimer: this is not meant to be an authorative exploration of the 1853 Enfield…rather it is a simplified look at the history of Reilly making Enfields.)

. . . . . . . . . .- Reilly in the late 1850’s, early 1860’s built dozens and dozens of military style Enfields and sporterized Enfield rifles, both single and double-barreled, although the advertising for both was somewhat vague.*30b

. . . . . . . . . .- By 1859 he was advertisng and marketing 2 and 3 band military style Enfields for the Volunteer services corps. Some had serial numbers if he built them; some were advertised for “wholesale” with his name on the gun but no serial number, obviously obtained elsewhere. And, the Enfield was a huge money-maker during the American War Between the States.*30c For the record (and a “date marker” serial number), Reilly-made Enfield SN 11716 was given as a prize at a Christmas 1860 competition. The date is confirmed by the below serial number dating chart.*30d

. . . . . . . . . .- In the early 1860’s he began using the .451 cartridge for some of his Enfield rifles.*30e Whitworth had patented the .451 hexagonal bullet in 1856; Westley-Richards used Whitworth rifling/barrels (and his own ideas-who came first is still a dispute) on his 1858 breech loading “monkey tail” carbine (see below). The bullet/rifling was superior in every way to the .577 with a flatter trajectory and higher muzzle velocity. Whitworth sniper guns in .451 in the hands of the Confederates killed several Union generals. In early 1861 Reilly started advertising Enfields, especially sniper guns, with this cartridge and chambered a lot of guns for it.*30f There are four extant Reilly .451 Enfields, the earliest two from 1861, the most iconic being SN 12073.*30g

. . . . . . . . . .-One of Reilly’s 1853 Enfields SN 12,002 (1861) was later converted into the first Green Brothers breech-loader by Reilly in 1964 as a proof-of-principle experiment (Chapter XX below) and others later were converted to Snider breech loaders after 1866.

. . . . . . . . . .- His sporting versions of the Enfield are quite elegant.*30h He advertised his sporting Enfields as having been so designed that the gun would fit into a normal case (something a 2 or 3 band enfield with the long long forearm could not do.)*30h1

. . . . .General Jacob’s Rifle: As discussed before In 1854 Col. John Jacob, famous throughout the Punjab and Sindh area after the 3rd Sikh war and still regarded as a saint in Jacobobad, Pakistan, designed a gun for use on the hot Sindhi plains and had it built in London by Daw (Swinburne was his preferred manufacturer) It was a rifled SxS muzzle loader, which allegedly could reach out 1,200 yards, and had a sword bayonet fitted to it. The rifle could use an exploding bullet.*30i Reilly had a license to produce it, its ammunition and its bayonet.*30j

. . . . .English Schuetzen Percussion Target Rifle by E.M. Reilly: And for the fun of it there is at least one Reilly Schuetzen muzzle-loading target rifle, no serial number, probably marketed before 2 rue Scribe, Paris opened. It has only "E.M. Reilly" and not the "& Co., so likely 1858-59. E.M. Reilly loved "novelties." He always had interesting and unusual guns in his display rooms; perhaps this was part of his marketing strategy; people would say, "Let's drop in and see what's going on at Reilly's today."
. . . . . . . . . .50 caliber, 33.25" barrel, no S/N. Damascus barrel with schuetzen-style stock finely checkered at forend and wrist. Blade front sight with iron ramrod pipes with entry pipe leading to reinforced forend. Classic schuetzen type triggerguard with set trigger. Forend tapped for palm rest. Top of barrel marked "E. M. REILLY, 502 NEW OXFORD ST. & 315 OXFORD ST., LONDON." Lockplate marked "REILLY/LONDON" and engraved with classic broad scrolls.*30k

======== *30 1853-1860 Reilly builds Military percussion rifles END TEXT ========
Did you used to eat lead paint chips when you were a child ?
===== *30 1853-1860 Reilly builds Military percussion rifles FOOTNOTES =====

*30 1853-1860: Reilly building innovative Military Grade Muzzle Loading Rifles:

. . . . .*30a. 21 March 1857 Illustrated London News: Reilly advertisement for rifles:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*30b Adverts for Enfields
. . . . . . . . . .1858- Advertisement in "Ho To the West We Go"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .1859 Graces’ Guide
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .1861 – Graces’ Guide
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*30c .577 Enfield Collage; inckudes 11227, 11419, 11600, 11629, 11651, 11716 (Xmas 60 prize), 11820
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*30d SN 11716
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*30e. Advert for .451 Enfield.
. . . . . . . . . .30 March 1861, Volunteer’s Services Gazette
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .1865 Post Office Directory: Reilly advertises .451 - like Whitworth:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*30f .451 collage. SN 12069, 12073, 12088, 13165
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*30g SN 12073, Enfield sniper rifle
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

= *30 1853-1860 Reilly builds Military percussion rifles FOOTNOTES CONT BELOW ==
=== *30 1853-1860 Reilly builds Military percussion rifles FOOTNOTES CONT ===

. . . . .*30h Collage of Sporting Enfields:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*30i Jacob patent gun.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*30j 1857 Anglo-Indian Almanac
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*30k English Schuetzen Percussion Rifle, 1859-60:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=== *30 1853-1860 Reilly builds Military percussion rifles END FOOTNOTES ===
==== *31 1855-1860: Breech Loding rifles and new innovations TEXT ====

*31 1855-1860: Other breech-loader rifles and new innovations made by Reilly:

Breech loading military rifles had gradually impinged on the muzzle loading conservative establishment. In 1848 the Prussian military addopted the Dryese needlegun breech loader. The rest of Europe continued with muzzle-loaders. In 1853 the UK dropped the storied “Brown Bess” and adopted the Enfield 1853 “rifle-musket.” Yet time was moving on and innovations could not be denied.

E.M. Reilly in the 1850’s was far more modern than his father J.C. and as pointed out above had gradually taken over the business. He kept abreast of changes. He was not wedded to one design and was much more flexible than other hide-bound London traditional makers, witness his early involvement per above in the pin-fire center-break breech-loader.

In addition to the pin-fire, however, Reilly also got involved in making and selling a number of other breech loading rifles, a fact displayed prominently on his new 1856 label.*31a Like Westley-Richards, Prince and others he apparently got £ signs in his eyes re the possibility of getting a piece of the Empire’s military contracts. In particular he advertised and manufactured two of the three most important UK breech-loading rifles of the era, Prince (1855) and Terry (1856) (see below).*31b

Paradoxically he did not advertise or apparently sell the third, the Westley Richards “Monkey-Tail” carbine/rifle (1858) (Details below); nor it seems did he make variations of the Dreyse needle gun which were being marketed by gun makers such as Haris Holland. The fact that Reilly did not publicize these guns in his ads (even while implying he had them for sale) adds some weight to the supposition that he might have had a financial stake in Prince and possibly Terry (see below):

. . . . .*31A -- Terry Patent breech loaders:

Per above Reilly by 1856 was marketing all kinds of new breech loaders and by 1858 Reilly was advertising Terry Patent SxS breech loaders. William Terry was a Birmingham gun maker who was granted a patent for a breech-loading rifle in April 1856;*31Aa The carbine was issued to the 18th Hussars and other British cavalry regiments in 1859, was used by Australia and New Zealand militia and by the Confederates in the War Between the States. Reilly made them under license.

A Reilly-made Terry Patent SxS rifle was used by the Anglican Bishop of Sarawak in 1862 sailing with the small three ship “navy” of Sarawak led by the son of Rajah Brooks during a confrontation with pirate ships off Mukdah. The Bishop said his gun had performed admirably and thanked the maker.*31Ab (The British press severely criticized the Bishop for participating in the battle without understanding the merciless nature of maurading slavers).*31Ac

How many Terry Patent breech-loaders Reilly built is unknown. One gun still exists, SN 13132 (late 1863). It's a SxS 40 bore ( .500 caliber) "William Terry's Patent" SxS carbine. The gun has Birmingham proof marks, highly unsual for a Reilly (discussed further in the chapter on barrels). Terry had his workshop/factory in Birmingham and perhaps he proofed the barrels while Reilly made the stock and assembled the gun.*31Ad

. . . . .*31B -- Prince Patent Breech Loader:

EM Reilly promoted the Prince patent breech loader in the late 1850's. This was probably the finest existing breech-loading rifle of its time. It outshot the newly adopted Enfield in 1855 and was consistently raved about by every civilian gun expert who tried it. However, it was never adopted by the Military.

In March 1858, shortly before “The Field” first trial for muzzle loader vs breech-loaders, 12 prominent London gun-makers signed an open letter in “The Field” urging Arsenal to reopen the army rifle competition in favor of the Prince.*31Ba Amongst the signers were Dean, Blanche, Wilkinson, Henry Tatham, John Blissett and a couple of others. All pledged that they had no financial stake in Prince and had signed the petition for the good of the country. (This group of London gun-makers always seemed associated in some way with Reilly, Prince and Green in that time period.)

Notably, Reilly and the Green brothers did not sign the letter; Green was in partnership with Prince and Reilly may well have had a financial stake in their firm, thus could not. However, in view of Reilly’s subsequent heavy commitment to making Prince breech-loaders and given E.M.’s shrewd business sense, it is entirely possible that Reilly provoked the whole exercise as a business ploy.

Reilly subsequently was one of several London gun-makers licensed to make the rifle (the others from the list of signers, coincidentally). In fact, it appears that during summer/fall 1858 Reilly took another technological market-place gamble by devoting significant resources to build a quantity of Prince breech loaders, perhaps as many as 100 out of some 200 Reilly guns made during that period.

There are five existing Reilly-made Prince rifles, three from summer/fall 1858 (the only extant Reilly's from that 3 month period) serial numbered close enough together to speculate that Reilly might have tried some method of mass production to produce them all at once: Note the August 1858 change to "Reilly & Co" on SN 10811 the first known gun with the new Oxford Street address (see below)
. . . . .-- SN 10738– summer 1858; Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; .350 cal, single-barrel, breech loader. (10438 on hammer along with “Reilly).*31Bb
. . . . .-- SN 10872– late summer 1858: Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. .577 bore, single barrel breech-loader hammer gun.*31Bc
. . . . .-- SN 10811– early fall 1858: Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .25 bore (sic) (probably .577), single barrel breech-loader hammer gun. 30.5” brls.*31Bd
. . . . .-- SN 11118 (SN not clear) – late summer 1860; Reilly & Co., London. .577 bore, single -barrel, breech loader.*31Bf
. . . . .-- SN 11645– late summer 1860: Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London. 100 bore; Rifle, single barrel, breech loader.*31Be

. . . . .*31C -- Westley-Richards “Monkey Tail” Breech Loader. – a non-event:

On 25 March 1858, Westley-Richards patented his “Monkey-Tail” breech loader. Richards had a relationshiop with Whitworth who patented a .451 round in 1856. Whitworth used a hexagoal bore; Richards an Octagonal bore. There were other difference in rifling. The concept dominated UK accuracy contests for years. W-R earned some contracts from Arsenal for cavalry carbines and orders of upwards of 80,000 by various armies over the years but never the coveted general contract for the army.

Reilly advertising in the 1860’s emhasized his commitment to selling all sorts of innovative breech loading rifles. However, he never advertised a Westley-Richards or a Whitworth (though he did use .451 high-velocity idea in early 1860’s Enfield rifles per above). The first Reilly advertisement specifically for a Westley-Richards, whether a gun sold in ready state or made under license, did not appear until 1871.*31Ca

== *31 1855-1860: Breech Loding rifles and new innovations END TEXT ===
===== *31 1855-1860: New breech loader innovations FOOTNOTES ====

*31 1855-1860: Other breech-loader rifles and new innovations made by Reilly:

. . . . .*31a – Breech Loader label insert
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*31b – Ad for Prince and Terry;
1859 Grace’s Guide
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*31Aa – Terry Patent drawing; . Description 1859
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*31Ab – Bishop thanks Reilly and God; But Reilly built the gun:
20 Jul 1862, "Weekly Dispatch"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*31Ac – Article on the battle off Mukdah; British Press criticisms of the Bishop.
09 Jul 1862, "Bell’s Life"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*31Ad – SN 13132 ; Reilly made Terry Patent breech loader: (Photo from Bonhams)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

==== *31 1855-1860: New breech loader innovations FOOTNOTES CONT. BELOW ===
=== *31 1855-1860: New breech loader innovations FOOTNOTES CONT. ===

. . . . .*31Ba – March 1858 – Petition on Prince; Note the qualifying phrase, "And having beyond no interest whatever in Mr. Prince's breech-loader..."
"The Field", 24 April 1858
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

For the benefit of internet searches, the signers were:
-- John Blanch & Sons
-- John Blissett
-- Wm Bishop
-- B. Denver
-- Geo Fuller
-- J. Greenfield
-- E. London
-- John Manton and Son
-- Moore and Woodward
-- Saml Nock and Co.
-- Parker Field and Son
-- Henry Tatham
-- Henry Wilkinson

. . . . .*31Bb – (photo Bonhams) (SN 10438 found on inside of the hammer): - First Extant Reilly-made Prince
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*31Bc - SN 10782: SN 10782, "Reilly, New Oxford Street, London" on the rib (Photo Michael Dlong):
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*31Bd – SN 10811 - Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .25 bore (sic) (probably .577), single barrel breech-loader hammer gun, Frederic Prince Patent (1st use of "Oxford St." and "Reilly & Co.”)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*31Bf – SN 11118. (Photo Antnony Cribb). SN is difficult to read...but this is pretty typical auction house "expertise" - they identified the number as "8771" (sic) but had the SN inverted and didn't look further. Auction houses are exerts...right?
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*31Be – SN 11645, (photo Thomas Delmar)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*31Ca – 1st ad specifically advertising Westley-Richards.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . Black’s guide 1870. . . . . . . . . . . . Black’s Guide 1871 (No Napoleon III - Battle of Sedan Sep 1870)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=== *31 1855-1860: New breech loader innovations END FOOTNOTES ====
======== *32 August 1858: 315 Oxford Street opens with new Label TEXT ==========

*32 August 1858: Opening of 315 Oxford-Street - New Label

In early August 1858 with new partners (unknown - business research should be able to turn up the partners - were they Prince and Greene?). EM opened a branch store/factory in a large building at 315 Oxford Street, probably because of the surging demand for break-action breech-loaders.*32a The branch early on was also referred to as "Reilly's Armoury House" or "The Manufactory." (Note: Reilly owned that property in "freehold.")

Reilly created a separate retangular trade label with unscolloped corners for this new workshop, again using "Fusils à bascule" with the name “Reilly’s Armoury House.” It advertised the shooting gallery.*32b

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Reilly was three doors down from Purdey located at "314 1/2".**32c Oxford Street numbering at the time is extremely confusing. There were 9 x 315's in the census of 1871 and 1881 and in the pre-1882 postal directories. It appears the entire block was numbered "315" with variations; The block was later renumbered in November 1881.

From this time forward guns with only "Oxford Street, London" on their ribs would have been built at 315 Oxford Street. Guns built at 502 New Oxford Street without a street number would have simply "New Oxford Street."
. . .-- The first existing gun with only "Oxford Street" is SN 10811 (summer 1858)*32d .

====== *32 August 1858: 315 Oxford Street opens with new Label END TEXT ========
=== *32 August 1858: 315 Oxford Street opens with new Label FOOTNOTES =====

*32 August 1858: Opening of 315 Oxford-Street Manufactory - New Label

. . . . .*32a – 1st ad for Reilly at 315, Oxford Street; he held that building in freehold until 1903 (That word "freehold' in London means a lot and it can be proven!)
. . . . . . . . . . 31 Jul 1858 "The Field". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .07 Aug 1858 "The Field"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*32b - Label: Reilly’s Armoury House:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*32c – Photo or Reilly at 315 with with Purdey at 315 1/2.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .Map
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .1882 London Postal Directory with old (315) and new (277) addresses:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*32d – SN 10811 - Christies 1997 auction catalog (no photo).
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

== *32 August 1858: 315 Oxford Street opens with new Label END FOOTNOTES ==
========== *33 The Shooting Gallery at 315 Oxford Street TEXT ==========

*33 The Shooting Gallery at 315 Oxford Street:

With the opening of 315 Oxford Street, Reilly also opened a 50 yard shooting gallery at the workshop. *33a,*33b A 50 yard shooting gallery in central London is extremely unusual. While many gun manufacturers had a small space for shooting hand-guns, perhaps only two had a space where shotguns and rifles could be shot, Lang and Reilly. Lang had a well-known shooting gallery described numerous times; but believe it was only about 21 yards long.*33c

Thus, Reilly's shooting gallery likely was unique. Per newspaper ads and per mentions in articles in "The Field," the 50 yard shooting gallery was "on the premises" of Reilly's 315 manufactory.*33d It had to be above ground for light and ventilation. It may have been on the ground floor of the adjacent billiard club also numbered "315" or occupying property running from Oxford Street through an apparent large open space/courtyard behind the building to Princess street near Hanover Square. In the 1870's the center of this block became a skating rink and then Salvation Army Regents Hall from 1882 on. The last ad for the range so far found is in 1867.*33e

========== *33 The Shooting Gallery at 315 Oxford Street TEXT ==========
========== *33 The Shooting Gallery at 315 Oxford Street FOOTNOTES ==========

*33 The Shooting Gallery at 315 Oxford Street:

. . . . .*33a - First Reilly label with the shooting gallery for 315 Oxford Street.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*33[b/color] - Advertisement for 315 from 04 September 1858:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .[color:#FF0000]*33c
- 14 Sep 1859 Bell's Life - reference to Lang's shooting gallery - first reference was in 1830 (see pin-fire capter *26 above).
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*33d - Mention of the shooting gallery in a 23 Jul 1859 article in "The Field":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*33e - Last so far found advertisement for the Reilly shooting gallery:
25 Oct 1867, "London Evening News"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

======== *33 The Shooting Gallery at 315 Oxford Street END FOOTNOTES ========
Argo, this is such fascinating information. I can almost picture the customers and shooters, well dressed, exploring the products. It seems interesting that Reilly , unlike most makers, was happy to pay the fee for producing guns designed or patented by other makers. Quite an interesting business model.
Unlike most makers?

It seems to me that everyone and his dog, including Greener, was willing to pay the licence fees to Westley Richards to use the Anson and Deeley action although Greener then tried (unsuccessfully) to sidestep the Patent with his Facile Princeps design.

I suppose the moral of the story is that if your design is sufficiently superior people will be willing to pay up rather than go to the trouble of trying to design an alternative that is less good
========= ERROR CORRECTION: New location for 502 New Oxford street ==========

For some time I've posted pictures of what I thought was 16 New Oxford Street, Reilly's workshop for 50 years from 1847-1897. It was a very large building...indeed an enormous building:

It turns out I was wrong. This was originally 6 Oxford Street...later 16 Oxford Street. From 1861 on it was the Oxford Music Hall and is now the Primark Headquarters.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

It took some doing but using a fantastic London map resource from 1890, which has all the original lots and plats, the 1882 Post Office directory and Google Earth, the location of 502 (16) New Oxford Street was finally determined. It was a big building too, probably 5 floors, 1000 sq ft per floor?...about the same size as 316 High Holborn. The whole block was rebuilt in the 1980's. But the building was probably still there when Donald Dallas walked past it each morning on his way to London School of Economics. The correction has been made to chapter 9.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zo...&lon=-0.13083&layers=163&b=1

. . . .*9b – Photos; Sketch, photos of 502 New Oxford Street: Comment: The size of this building alone shows that Reilly was engaged in large scale manufacturing.
. . . . . . . . . .From Dec 1847 Label:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .1860 Map
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .1890 detailed London plat showing lots:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .1882 London Postal Directory showing Reilly was on the north side of New Oxford Street, 7th house down:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .From Google Earth in present day: The entire block was rebuilt apparently in the 1980's...Reilly building would have been still standing when Donald Dallas walked past it on his way to London School of Economics.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

========= ERROR CORRECTION: New location for 502 New Oxford street ==========
========= London gun makers building others' patents COMMENT ===========

Thanks for the kind words Daryl: And I agree with Parabola. Patent use number are ubiquitous. I tried to make sense of a couple...the Henry Patent rifling use numbers (Henry rifling was used by everybody) and the Purdey Patent 1104 among others.
-- The Henry patent use numbers looked to be logical for about the first five years up to about 1866 then fell apart.
-- Purdey records from that time are literally locked up.

But everybody - and I mean everybody - was using other makers' patents from ejectors to forends to whatever. .depending on the fashion of the day and the desires of the client. Reilly made this clear. You could buy his gun for cheap..Or you could add "accessories"...i.e.if in 1865 for instance you wanted a Brazier action...it would cost you ÂŁ5 (a lot of money back then).

And this included building others' guns under license. W-R used to demand that such guns be sent to him for approval...one doubts other patent holders were so concerned. It would be really interesting to be able to find out the costs/profit comparisons of say
-- Reilly building a W-R under license, (One obvious advantage of Reilly building a W-R under license - He wouldn't have to wait 2 years for delivery.)
-- buying a W-R in the white directly from W-R and finishing it,
-- or just retailing a W-R.
That kind of research one fears is a bottomless pit.

Reilly was a businessman, not an innovator. He had his own workforce to keep employed. And he was not alone in making others' designs. (He was also a wholesaler and a retailer...he was the UK sole distributor for American Sharps Rifles from 1858 on).

======= London gun makers building others' patents END COMMENT =========
Better hOpe they give you computer privileges when they lOck you away in the Asylum.
========== *34 Aug 1858 - Apr 1861: Four changes in the Name TEXT ===========
This post will mostly be of interest to those trying to date guns and labels. The dates of the name changes, descriptions are a best guess; multiple advertisements in newspapers and magazines can be found with differing descriptions/names running at the same time. This does, however, have something to do with research and scholastic rigor..i.e. it's important even if it seems a bit pedantic.

As noted above for 10 years after the 1847 move to 502 New Oxford Street, the company was known in advertisements as “REILLY, GUN MAKER (sometimes “Gunmaker).*34 There were exceptions previously mentioned for J.C. Then with J.C’s 1857 retirement, E.M began a series of radical moves which included name changes.

*34 August 1858 - April 1861: Four Changes in the Company Name

. . . . .*34A “REILLY & CO., GUN MAKERS” - August 1858 - March 1859

. . . . . . . . . .-- When Reilly opened 315 Oxford Street in early August 1858 with “new partners,” the company’s name appears to have changed from "Reilly, Gun Maker" (singular) to "Reilly & Co., Gun Makers"(plural) for a short while from circa August 1858-March 1859 per a few advertisements & references in books. (Note: Many advertisements until January 1859 and even beyond that date continued to use only "Reilly, Gun Maker."

. . . . . . . . . .-- Newspaper ads only began mentioning this name from January 1859 but it may have been registered in some way in trade directories.*34Aa “Reilly & Co.” is referred to in occasional books and newpaper articles.*34Ab No trade labels exist with this name. A few advertisements using "Reilly & Co." can be found as late as September 1859.

. . . . . . . . . .-- 315 Oxford Street at the same time used all sorts of names in advertisements: "Reilly Armoury House," "Reilly’s Armoury House"; " Reillys, the Armoury House"; "Reilly’s London Armoury House." However, these were never "official" company names.*34Ac
. . . . . . . . . .-- Two extant Reillys, both Prince Patent rifles, have "Reilly & Co.” on the barrel (see Prince breech loading rifles above).
. . . . . . . . . .-- Note: November & December1858 there were a few outlier Ads for "REILLY, MANUFACTURER.” It appeared in three newspapers but apparently had no effect on the name of the company but was a harbinger of things to come.*34Ad

. . . . .*34B ”E.M. REILLY & CO., GUN MAKERS” - February 1859 – August 1860:

. . . . . . . . . .-- By February 1859 the company's name used in newspaper and magazine ads changed definitively to "E.M. Reilly & Co.", a name which continued in use for the next 100 years.*34Ba

. . . . . . . . . .-- His labels for both branches changed at this time to reflect the new name, "E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Makers" (note the plural):

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .- NEW LABEL: 502 New Oxford St. continued to use the standard scolloped corner rectangular label illustrated by the sketch of the building and the 1851 & 1855 World’s Fair medals;*34Bb

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .- NEW LABEL: 315 Oxford Street continued to have a different rectangular label still without scollops but now also with the “E.M Reilly & Co.” name and the 1851 and 1855 medals.*34Bc

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . . . . . . .-- 315 Oxford Street continued to use all sorts of names in advertisements per above, none of them official.*34Bd

. . . . . . . . . .-- The first extant serial numbered gun with "E.M. Reilly & Co." on the barrel is a 3 band Enfield SN 11227 dated per the below chart to autumn 1859.*34Be

. . . . .*34C “E.M. REILLY & CO., GUN MANUFACTURER” (singular) - August 1860 – April 1861:
. . . . . . . . . .-- In August 1860 Reilly began using "Gun Manufacturer" (singular) rather than "Gun Makers" in his advertisements. The Trade Labels did not appear to change.*34Ca. (Note: some long-term advertisements continued to refer to E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Makers during this period as did the trade labels.

. . . . .*34D “E.M. REILLY & CO., GUN MANUFACTURERS" (plural)” - April 1861:

. . . . . . . . . .-- In circa April 1861 the company's description on labels and in advertisements changed from "Gun Makers" to "Gun Manufacturers"(plural).*34Da From this point on the company was known definitively as "E.M. REILLY & CO., GUN MANUFACTURERS," a name and description which continued in use for the next 40 years.

. . . . . . . . . .-- NEW LABEL: At that time the sketch of 502 New Oxford Street was dropped from his case labels. The separate label for 315 Oxford Street also was dropped. The new label had 502 as the featured address. A label mentioning 315 during the time frame 1861-1868 has not been found.*34Db)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

(After 1868 Reilly labels mention 315 as a "branch establishment" in scroll work on the label.) The basic format for the new label remained fundamentally consistent for the next 30+ years with variations (additions of medals, branch addresses in scroll work, occasionally mention of royalty, etc.) There were a few outlier labels. The advertising scroll work at the bottom of the label changed slightly after 1885. (See the separate chart dating Reilly labels).

. . . . . . . . . .-- PRESENTATION LABEL: Reilly Presentation cases also at this time changed to adopt both the new name and sometimes the "Gun Manufacturers" description; three examples exist, each slightly different.*34Dc
. . . . . . . . . ._____________________
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |. . . .Reilly Label. . . . .|
. . . . . . . . . |. .Presentation case . . |
. . . . . . . . . |____________________|

. . . . . . . . . ._____________________
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |. . . .Reilly Label. . . . .|
. . . . . . . . . |. . . Presentation . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |____________________|

. . . . . . . . . ._____________________
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |. . . .Reilly Label. . . . .|
. . . . . . . . . |. . . Presentation . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |____________________|

======== *34 Aug 1858 - Apr 1861: Four changes in the Name END TEXT =========
===== *34 Aug 1858 - Apr 1861: Four changes in the Name FOOTNOTES =====

. . . . .*34 Reilly, Gun Maker
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

*34 August 1858 - April 1861: Four Changes in the Company Name

. . . . .*34A “REILLY & CO., GUN MAKERS” - August 1858-March 1859

. . . . . . . . . .*34Aa 05 Mar 1859, "Illustrated London News"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .*34Ab "Reilly & Co.” is referred to in occasional books and newspaper articles.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .*34Ac “Reilly Armoury House” or “The Manufactory”; 19 Dec 1858, “The Field”:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .*34Ad 11 Dec 1858; Illustrated London News"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*34B ” E.M. REILLY & CO., GUN MAKERS” (plural) - April 1859 – August 1860:

. . . . . . . . . .*34Ba -
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .04 Feb 1859, "Volunteer Services Gazette"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[b1859, "Grace’s"[/b]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .*34Bb The label for 502 New Oxford Street changed:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .*34Bc February 1859 - With the advent of the new company name the trade label for 315 changed:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .*34Bd 31 December 1859, "Volunteer Services Gazette"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

== *34 Aug 1858 - Apr 1861: Four changes in the Name FOOTNOTES CONT BELOW ==
== *34 Aug 1858 - Apr 1861: Four changes in the Name FOOTNOTES CONT ===

. . . . . . . . . .*34Be SN 11227. (dated late 1859 per the dating chart)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*34C ”E.M. REILLY & CO., GUN MANUFACTURER” (singular) - August 1860 – April 1861

. . . . . . . . . .*34Ca - 08 Aug 1860, “Sporting Life”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*34D ”E.M. REILLY & CO., GUN MANUFACTURERS” (plural) - April 1861

. . . . . . . . . .*34Da – 1st ad; 14 April 1861, “Bell’s Life”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .*34Db – New Label
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .*34Dc – Presentation Cases:
E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street, London":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturers, 315 Oxford Street, London":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

== *34 Aug 1858 - Apr 1861: Four changes in the Name END FOOTNOTES ===
========== *35 1859-1900: Reilly Sells Wholesale TEXT ===========

*35 1859 – 1900: Reilly Selling to Yoemanry Militia & Gun Clubs at Wholesale Prices

Beginning in 1859, Reilly began advertising rifles sold wholesale to equip "Yoemanry" militia.*35a He continued to advertise such guns up to at least the 1890's.*35b Most of these guns were not made by him, especially after the early 1860's, and thus not serial numbered. (The Yoemanry Militia, a sort of UK "National Guard," was still in existence in WWI and units were deployed to France). He also advertised discounts for bulk purchases by shooting clubs.*35c Reilly continued to hawk sales of guns wholesale in his advertisements and occasionally on outlier labels for the next 40 years.*35d

======== *35 1859-1900: Reilly Sells Wholesale END TEXT =========
========== *35 1859-1900: Reilly Sells Wholesale FOOTNOTES ===========

*35 Reilly Selling to Militia & Gun Clubs at Wholesale Prices

. . . . .*35a - Early advertisements for Wholesale militia:
. . . . . . . . . .1859: Volunteer Services Gazette:
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. . . . . . . . . .1860; Rifles and Volunteer Militia
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. . . . .*35b 03 Jun 1993 - "Volunteer Services Gazette"
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. . . . .*35c 1860 advertisement rifle clubs: - "A genealogy and Heraldry Dictionary of the British Empire" - Burke.
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. . . . .*35d Wholesale on Reilly labels:
. . . . . . . . . .1876 Outlier label for 502 New Oxford Street
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. . . . . . . . . .1885 Outlier label for 502 New Oxford street
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======== *35 1859-1900: Reilly Sells Wholesale END FOOTNOTES =========
======== 1860-61: Reilly Making Complete Guns; Using Others' Patents TEXT ========

*36 1860-61: Reilly Making Guns, All Parts, Using Others’ Patents, and Making Guns Under License:

During this time frame Reilly in advertisements claimed to be making every piece of every gun he serial numbered in his two workshops on Oxford Street and invited customers to "view the progress of their order."*36a This would make Reilly one of the very few "vertical" gun companies in London. (Adams and Colt are the only other two that this writer knows of and Adams had major connections to Liège). The London (and Birmingham) gun trade at the time relied for the most part on out-sourced parts and materials, which were assembled and finished in-house.

Note. Haris Holland posted a similar advertisement in "The Field" in 1858.*36b It's entirely possible that Reilly was allowing customers to view only the "assembled/finished" parts of small arms manufacturing; this said, Reilly's manufacturing spaces with his two buildings dwarfed that of Haris Holland at the time.

In an article about Reilly leading up to the 1862 London World’s Fair, Reilly clearly explained his manufacturing and business philosophy: He was not wedded to any particular design; And he made others’ patents that he deemed commercially viable. This was the company business model for 30 years but it was spelled out quite definitively.*36c

How the patent license fees were paid, how much a patent license fee cost for individual patents, and how they were numbered remains a mystery of the London gun trade. One of the possible reasons for building another maker’s patented gun under license might have been a question of time. Reilly worked faster than other London gunmakers. If a client wanted a Dougall lockfast or a Brazier action on his gun, Reilly would make it or buy it and install it from the maker (but it would cost extra).*36d

====== 1860-61: Reilly Making Complete Guns; Using Others' Patents END TEXT ======
= 1860-61: Reilly Making Complete Guns; Using Others' Patents FOOTNOTES ==

Note: This is a key period for Reilly. His involvement early-on in making pin-fire's and his technological risk-taking on other breech loading rifle systems and his opening of a new Manufactory made the company especially dynamic. There are some 20 collected references to Reilly building guns in the 1850's-early 1860's, testimonials, assertations, attestations, comments by authoritative writers, etc. These can be posted as needed.

*36 1860-61: Reilly Making Guns; Using Others’ Patents; Making Guns Under License:

. . . . .*36a – Reilly building complete guns:
. . . . . . . . . .14 April 1861, “Bell’s Life”
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. . . . . . . . . . 28 Sept 1861, "Bell's Life"
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. . . . .*36b – Haris Holland claims the same thing...unlikely.
. . . . . . . . . .24 April 1858, “The Field”
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. . . . .*36c - 17 Aug 1862 "Bell's Life" - review of guns at the 1862 London World's Fair – Reilly makes whatever
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. . . . .*36c - 06 Jul 1867: "The Field" - discusses the low prices, and excellence of Reilly made guns and the fact that the"Field" author personally used one in India:
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. . . . .*36d - 1862 London Exhibition advertisement: Advertisements for selling Reilly with multiple patents from others including Lockfast and Brazier locks and costs.
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= 1860-61: Reilly Making Complete Guns; Using Others' Patents END FOOTNOTES =
============== Pause 4 NEXT =============

Again, this is being replayed so people who have not read the fragmented meanderings of the research during the first 60 pages of this line, or didn't want to go through the now 20 pages of the history, can read it paragraph by paragraph, and see why it was written as it was with the footnotes. It makes challenges to the research easier and more focused.

We are now up to 1861. Pin-Fire sporting guns are the rage, 1853 Enfield rifle-muskets are money-makers with the WBTS, breech-loading rifles are being experimented with, and a host of UK gun makers are working on all sorts of revolutionary patents. The Jones under-lever will soon be free, Daw is working on center-fire concept and Henry rifling is making inroads in the rifle area. Reilly is riding high with his new factory at 315 Oxford Street and pretty much feeling his oats. Before moving on to 1862 London Exposition and the rest of the 1860's, here is what will be reviewed over the next several posts:

-- Reilly stocks
-- Reilly barrels
-- Reilly engraving

-- Reilly Pistols and handguns
-- Reilly cartridges
-- Reilly swords, bayonets, and cutlery
-- Reilly accessories

-- Reilly clientele
-- Reilly employees

Reilly financial connections to Liège and Birmingham might be looked at further, but that might be a bridge too far.

The objective is to identify what made-up a Reilly gun at this time and to better define the company's revenue streams. Again, sorry if this is pedantic, the book is being written or rather re-written here. If you all object to any of this, let me know. This is peer review and I pay attention to what is said, even to slights because there may be truth there. I'll research it further (and I have a lot of information stockpiled).

Gene Williams

============ Pause 4 END NEXT ===========
What was the extent of em reilly estate when he died it must have been massive.
This was to have been posted later. When E.M. died in July 1890 he had about ÂŁ9,000 in "personal assets" = today to about ÂŁ12,300,000 ($16,250,000). He had two freehold buildings in London, 16, New Oxford Street and 277, Oxford Street (possibly held by the company) and a farm in Cranford, Bedford County, in addition to the machinery, guns in stock, (again probably company held) etc. His will was quite sparse though compared to J.C.'s (posted above). And the business of his "reputed son" has to have effected his oldest Edward Montague.

From Sally's Ancestry.com page:

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9000 in 1890 is about 1,100,000. I think it's a multiple of 125.
45 that is still a lot of money clabrough by comparison had an estate of 200.000 pounds fred beesley around 13000 quite successful in there time
One man's calculations, 1890-2022

by Eric Nye, Department of English, University of Wyoming
Click here to read an explanation of the calculations.

Enter source year:
1890
(1264-1983)
Enter target year:
2022
(1913-2022)
Enter old value in pounds: ÂŁ
9000

Convert Clear

Value at beginning of target year in dollars: $ 1,437,944.16
I used "purchasing power" estimate which is different from straight-forward exchange rates:

ÂŁ100 in 1890 is equivalent in purchasing power to about ÂŁ13,691.76 today, an increase of ÂŁ13,591.76 over 132 years. The pound had an average inflation rate of 3.80% per year between 1890 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 13,591.76%

But still comes out to a digit less than I computed. 90 (not 900) x 13,591 = ÂŁ1,223,190 not 12 million.

Using this number to compute how much a Purdey shotgun purchased for ÂŁ60 in 1890 should theoretically cost today = ÂŁ8,154.6. If Purdey will sell me a new gun for that price, they've got a buyer!
I think 277 Oxford st. Address was changed to 315 Oxford st. in 1882
315 was changed to 277 in November 1881 to be addressed in a later paragraph but already mentioned. See post for 315 when it opened August 1858.

1882 London Post Office Directory. Old number on right, new number on left
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=============== *37 Comments on Reilly Stocks TEXT ===============

*37 Comments on Reilly Stocks

Reilly from very early on reportedly used French walnut. During the 1830’s and 40’s his highly figured stocks differed from the standard English walnut offered by other makers and may be something of a marker.*37a

. . . . .Note: This commentary on stocks is meant to be confined to Reilly. However, as background, per UK newspaper records, English walnut production was falling considerably short throughout the 1830’s and by 1840 Arsenal was importing Continental walnut stock blanks.

. . . . .-- There was debate about this in Parliament in 1843.*37b There certainly are numerous records for the importation of French and Continental walnut stock blanks in massive quantities into UK during the 1850’s. It is impossible to determine from raw shipping records who got what without shop accounts.*37c

. . . . .-- The lack of home grown walnut, however, elicited a great deal of concern in the English gun-making fraternity from 1840 on; numerous commentaries were written in journals and alternative woods to walnut searched for.*37d John Rigby in his introduction to the summary of guns shown at the 1862 London International Exposition had this to say:
. . . . . . . . ."Walnut, which is now almost universally used for gun stocks, is a scarce timber in England, and for years we have been obliged to seek our supplies abroad. Italy has exported the greater portion of the wood used in our Government arms for some time, and large numbers of French and other Continental gun stocks are also sent into this country." *37d(1)

Reilly likely had his own in-house stock makers. A good stock-maker at the time could produce up to 9 (military - not custom) stocks a week (according to an 1856 article comparing the just opened Enfield machine stock maker to handicraft stock makers).*37e. With his established connections to France, Reilly may have had his own methods of choosing and importing quality French walnut stock blanks.

Reilly almost always throughout the history of the firm used a straight English stock for SxS shotguns.*37f The exception to this are big-bore fowlers; A goodly percentage of Reilly shotguns 10 bore or larger had some type of pistol grip although this was not ubiquitous and was quite personal.*37g

He almost always used a pistol grip stock for rifles,*37h and if not, early on a trigger-guard extension which aped a pistol grip (a "scroll guard").*37i

A number of Reilly post 1870 rifles were later converted to shotguns. If a Reilly 12 gauge and smaller "shotgun" has a pistol grip stock, it almost certainly was repurposed from a rifle. The markers for such a conversion are the pistol grip, barrel length less that 30” and weight.*37j

Note: After Riggs bought the name in 1922 most “Riggs-Reilly” guns, both shotguns and rifles, used "Prince of Wales" (the popular name nowadays) stocks. See Chapter xx belos.*37k

============= *37 Comments on Reilly Stocks END TEXT =============
============= *37 Comments on Reilly Stocks FOOTNOTES =============

*37 Commentary on Reilly Stocks

. . . . .*37a – Highly figured stocks collage Note: This observation re Reilly using French walnut comes from 20th century gun writers and once stated, has subsequently been reprinted numerous times. The assumption may be right. However, nowhere in the 1830's press can a comment be found about Reilly stocks. One poem may be an exception.
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. . . . .*37b –Parliament looks at complaints from UK Walnut timber owners:
01 May 1843, “Globe”:
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. . . . .*37c – UK Importation of Stocks
1 – 10 Apr 1855 – “Morning Chronicle”
2 – 04 Oct 1857 – “Shipping and Mercantile Gazette”
3 – 31 Oct 1859 – “Shipping and Mercantile Gazette”
4 – 21 Apr 1862 – “Shipping and Mercantile Gazette”
5 – 21 Apr 1858 – “Morning Chronicle”
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. . . . .*37d – UK stock importation commentary:
1 – 12 Jun 1862 – “The Field”
2 – 16 Feb 1861 – “The Field”
3 – 08 Jun 1862 – “The Field” - South African "Stinkwood" was considered as a replacement for walnut as early as 1840. At the time stock-makers refused to work on the wood saying it was so hard it damaged their tools:
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. . . . .*37e – Artisan production capacity for stock-making - see comment on the effect of Colt on the 1851 Crystal Palace Exposition: [/b
03 Sep 1856 - "The Sun" - discusses the new Enfield factory built on the American principle to machine produce guns:
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. . . . .[b]*37f
– "Straight" or "English" stock
17552 – E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 13 bore, Shotgun SxS. pin-fire (converted); U-L, hammer gun. – reb87’s 12 bore
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. . . . .*37g – Big Bore Fowler pistol grips, Non pistol grips:
1 – 19212 – E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 8 bore, SxS Shotgun, U-L, hammer gun. 14 lbs, 36” brls
2 – 15393 – E.M. Reilly & Co., London and rue Scribe, Paris. 8 bore, SxS shotgun; original CF, U-L, Hammer gun. 36” brls
3 – 18860 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street London & rue Scribe. Paris. 4 bore Shotgun SxS. U-L, non-rebounding hammer gun.
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4 – 17391 17391 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 8 bore. Shotgun SxS. pin-fire (converted), U-L, hammer gun.
5 – 15625 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London, 2, rue Scribe Paris. 4 bore. Shotgun SxS. pin-fire (converted); U-L, hammer gun.
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. . . . .*37h– Rifle pistol grips
1 - 8025 – Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 13 bore, single-barrel Rifle; hammer gun, muzzle loader. (marked Veni, Vidi, Vici)
2 – 8645 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; 16 bore, double-rifle, SxS, muzzle loader.
3 – 34221, 34222 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 16 bore .450. Cape gun SxS. #1&2 of pair.
4 - *11864 – E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore, .600 cal Cape Gun SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader
5 – 26781 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe Paris. .360 BPE, SxS rifle. AD Boxlock; W-R "C" fastener, Top Lever.
6 - 25711 – E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford St. London. 8 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, hammer gun. “H. H. Maharana Shree Warhatsingji Loonawara”.
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7 – 15864 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford St., London. 4 bore SxS rifle. pin-fire, U-L, hammer gun.
8 – 18534 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street & rue Scribe, Paris: 8 bore, SxS; rifle; U-L, back-action, non-rebounding hammer gun, 28" barrel.
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============= *37 Comments on Reilly Stocks FOOTNOTES CONT BELOW =============
============= *37 Comments on Reilly Stocks FOOTNOTES CONT =============

. . . . .*37i – Rifle scroll guards
. . . . . . . . . . 3402 (outlier) – E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe Paris; .577 cal, Rifle SxS; hammer gun, muzzle Loader.
. . . . . . . . . . 8877 – Reilly, New Oxford Street, London; .577 single-barrel, rifle. Percussion gun. Scroll guard. 33.5” brls.
. . . . . . . . . .10621 – Reilly, London; .376 cal. Rifle; Single barrel, hammer gun, muzzle loader.
. . . . . . . . . .11651 – E.M. Reilly, Oxford Street, London. .577 cal; Enfield rifle, hammer gun, muzzle loader converted to Snider
. . . . . . . . . .10077 - Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London. .56 cal, SxS Rifle, muzzle loader; ebony ramrod. Scroll guard.
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. . . . .*37j– Identifying rifles converted to shotguns:
25363 – E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London*. 8 bore, SxS Shotgun*. U-L hammer gun., 28" steel barrels (*rebarreled from a large bore rifle after 1904) - SXS40 (HWK) gun - formerly Terry Buffum.
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. . . . .*37k– Riggs-"Reilly"' "Prince of Wales" stocks:
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============= *37 Comments on Reilly Stocks END FOOTNOTES =============
============== *38 1820-1900: Reilly Engraving TEXT ==============

*38 1820-1900: Reilly Engraving

Reilly engraving evolved over the years and understamding its evolution may be helpful in dating guns. (Disclaimer: this is not meant to be an academic treatise on London firearms engraving but rather a cursory analysis of the engraving found on extant Reilly long-guns):

-- In the 1820’s-1830’s Reilly engraving was mostly simple “vine and scroll” patterns used by many gun makers at the time.*38a

-- By the early 1840’s and continuing into the 1950’s the motifs had advanced to a “large scroll” or “English scroll” design.*38b.

There may be more complex engraving during this time period on guns which no longer exist. For instance the company showed examples of embossing and chasing at the 1851 Crystal Palace world’s fair.*38c

Throughout the 1850’s and much of the 1860’s, the engraving continued to echo the above “simple vine and scroll” and “English Scroll” work although becoming more complex. Reilly built guns for Rajah’s and royalty during this period which were obviously higher grades but his bread and butter clientele were the mid-level army officers and lower-level country gentlemen. He did not choose to compete head-to-head for the high-end market with extremely ornate engravings, at least from the extent guns available today.*38d

-- Beginning in the mid-1860’s he began to used increasingly intricate and delicate “rose and scroll” patterns. He abandoned depictions of wildlife.*38e

-- And by the 1880’s and 1890’s his tight “rose and scroll” engravings were tasteful and pleasing and pretty ubiquitous although he also advertised plain-Jane “keepers guns." *38f

There are guns with wildlife scenes engraved on them, mostly from the muzzle-loading period. Some of this engraving is quite realistic. however, many of the depictions of birds and animals on Reilly engravings are cartoonish.*38g Some experienced London gunsmiths (David Trevallion among them) have said that many of the engravers in London at the time had never seen a wild deer, partridge or duck in their lives and drew from impressions or from others’ sketches. Whatever, it appears Reilly did not specialize in fine depictures of wild-life. This was left to other, higher-end makers.

Most London gun-makers during the 1860’s used outworker trade engravers. However, because Reilly was engraving about everything he sold at the time, retailed pistols, retailed long-guns, bayonets, knives, etc. - it is probable that he had an in-house engraving capability. This would have enabled him to meet orders twice as fast as other gun-makers and perhaps reduce costs.

============== *38 1820-1900: Reilly Engraving END TEXT ==============
============== *38 1820-1900: Reilly Engraving FOOTNOTES ==============

*38 1820-1900: Reilly Engraving:

. . . . .*38a – 1820-1830’s:
. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .88 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 162
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 174
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*38b – 1840’s-1850’s:
. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2008 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2008
. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5512 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5512
. . . . .. . . . . . . . . .SN unk 316 High Holborn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .SN unk 316 High Holborn
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*38c – Crystal Palace
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*38d – 1860’s:
. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .12527 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .14115
. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .12861 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .15129
. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .12855 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .15272
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*38e – 1860’s - 1870's – “rose and scroll”:
. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .13225 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .16765
. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .15287 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .17230
. . . . .. . . .. . . . . . .16139(Douglas Tate) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .20614
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*38f – 1880's - 1890's – Tight “rose and scroll” and intricate design:
. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .30342 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .24364
. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .30358 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .21639
. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .303xx . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .27854
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*38g – 1830-1860’s – depiction of wild-life on Reilly engraving:
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============ *38 1820-1900: Reilly Engraving END FOOTNOTES ============
wow!
The summer and Kell shops would get guns Tues and send them out Thurs to a very high standard
========== *39 1828-1900; Reilly Barrels: TEXT ==========

*39 1828-1900; Reilly Barrels This chapter is not meant to be a scholarly treatise on barrels and barrel making. Dr. Drew Hause has an excellent publication on Damascus; William Greener's 1847 book is as good as anything still for that era, etc. Rather these are observations on Reilly Barrels obtained from looking primarily at photos of some 500 guns.

. . . . .London proofed: From the beginning of the firm in 1828 until bankruptcy in 1912 nearly all serial numbered Reilly’s, i.e. guns built by Reilly, with original barrels were proofed in London.*39a There are a few exceptions out of some 600 existing guns, notably an 1897 barrel and action with Brum proof marks from 1896. This said, there are some difficulties in definitively proving this conclusion:
. . . . . . . . . .-- Research is severely hampered by the fact that auction houses and even individual owners rarely include proof marks (or patent use marks) in their advertisements.
. . . . . . . . . .-- In addition from the 1870’s-on numerous surviving Reilly’s have been reproofed over and over again or rebarreled making identification of original poofs sometimes difficult.*39b
However, for now for 98% of extant Reilly guns the truism holds – if it were serial numbered by Reilly, it was proofed in London.

. . . . .Bored and finished by Reilly, 1836-47: As early as 1837 Reilly advertised that he was boring/finishing his own barrels. For how long he continued to do so is unknown, but throughout the 1840’s he advertised fixing others’ bad barrels by reboring them adding, “no cure, no pay.”*39c Testimonies as to the excellence of Reilly-bored percussion gun barrels can be found.*39d.

What machinery Reilly was using to bore his barrels is unknown. In 1826 London barrel-maker Lancaster patented a machine that could finish a barrel precisely. It was improved in 1838 allowing the bored barrel and chamber to be precisely aligned along one axis.*39e It is possible that Reilly obtained one of the Lancaster machines.

. . . . .Barrel Lengths: From an analysis of some 500 extant photographed Reillys:
. . . . . . . . . .— Rifles: After the arrival of the pin-fire in 1856 the normal barrel lengths for Reilly center-break rifles including big bore game guns were 26” to 28”. There are exceptions of course; a small rook rifles might have a 24" barrel. (An 1861 advertise states rifle barrels could be obtain in 24, 26 and 28 inch lengths).
. . . . . . . . . .-- Shotguns: The standard Reilly break-action shotgun barrel length after 1856 was 30”. There are a few shorter barrels for .410, and boy’s guns. There are longer barrels up to 36” for big bore, center-break shotuguns. In general If a 12 bore shotgun has barrels shorter than 30"'s, they have either been cut down, re-barreled or repurposed from a rifle.

. . . . .Damascus: Reilly from the beginning used Damascus barrels for long-guns and for high-end percussion pistols (he ceased making pistols in the late 1830’s). Reilly continued to make Damascus barreled guns until bankruptcy in 1912 although for the most part his early 1900’s production had switched to steel. His Damascus patterns were conservative, but based on a review of about 600 surviving guns, his damascus barrels fell into three types:
. . . . . . . . . .-- 1820-1865 – Variations of a Plain English Stub Twist*39f
. . . . . . . . . .-- 1865-1912 – Crolle patterns – variations of Large scroll, Symmetric, or Annular Crolle.*39g
. . . . . . . . . .— Other Patterns. There were a few seemingly more exotic patterns but they were rare.*39h
Note: Dr. Hause identified the patterns in the above footnotes.

. . . . .Barrel Blanks: Where Reilly obtained his Damascus barrel blanks is unknown.
. . . . . . . . . .-- There was a well known barrel forger in London William Fullerd used by Manton, Purdey and others, However, Fullerd barrels are stampted with a â€WF,” *39i None have been found on Reilly’s so far. (The surviving guns from this period are few and their barrels for the most part not photograpghed). Fullerd closed his forge in 1844.
. . . . . . . . . .-- Presumably at least during the 1820’s-1850’s Reilly's barrel blanks came from Birmingham and the plain patterns, so different from Continental flamboyance seem to bear this out. (Purdey used similar patterns at the time).
. . . . . . . . . .-- There is one Reilly shotgun from the early 1860’s which has a faint Liège proof-mark on it overlain with London proofs,*39j possibly indicating that by then, if not earlier, Reilly like other London gunmakers might have begun using Belgian barrels.
. . . . . . . . . .-- By 1890 UK damascus barrels came from Liège per numerous references.

. . . . .Initials on Barrels, 1870’s: In the early 1870’s, shortly after the changeover in damascus patterns, a series of barrels have workers'' initials on them. These began around SN 17500. There are 10 examples, SN 17552 (WJ), 17626 (WJ), 18593 (WJ), 19500 (GE), 20249 (BE), 20255 (BE), 20466 (GE), 21361 (CP), 21369 (FR), and 21839 (WE), the last being numbered in 1879. Whose initials are these is still unknown. However, they are similar in style.*39k
. . . . . . . . . .Note: There may be initials on other Reilly barrels but again this sort of detail is often not included in advertisements. Other Reilly barrels before, during and after this period do not have initials.*39l

. . . . .Steel Barrels, 1882: In January 1882 Reilly advertised for the first time guns equipped with Whitworth compressed fluid steel barrels (originally an 1865 patent extended in 1879 for 5 years).*39m The first extant Reilly with a confirmed Whitworth barrel is SN 24365, a 12 gauge SxS pigeon gun with 31” barrels - top lever, side fences, low hammers, flat file cut rib. It is dated per the chart to 1882.*39n

======== *39 1828-1900; Reilly Barrels: END TEXT ========
======== *39 1828-1900; Reilly Barrels: FOOTNOTEES ========

*39 1828-1900; Reilly Barrels:

. .. .London proofed:

. . . . .*39a London Proof example:
. . . . . . . . . .10054, 12628, 12532, 30446
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. . . . .*39b Re-proof example:
. . . . . . . . . .23898, 32658
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.. . .Bored and finished by Reilly, 1836-47:

. . . . .**39c Reilly boring barrels 1846-47:
. . . . . . . . . . 07 Aug 1837. 07 Aug 1837. “Morning Chronicle”
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. . . . . . . . . . 1843
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*39d Testament: 1894 book called "Incidents of Foreign Sport and Travel," 1894, by Colonel Pollok.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .**39e Machinery: Ltc. P.Hawker on Lancaster barrel boring machinery.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . Barrel Lengths:. See extant gun chart.

. . Damascus:

Note: Dr. Hause identified the Damascus in the below collages as follows:
88, 5580, 10619, 7869 and 10782 - Stub Twist
.7023 - can't tell
.8556 - An early Laminated Steel ("angularly laminated")
18593 - Laminated Steel - (Stripe had larger scrolls; Iron had smaller more symmetric scrolls)
15964 - 2 Iron
18808 - 3 Iron ("Oxford")
20249 - 3 Iron
23153 - Laminated Steel
27570 - 3 Iron British Best ("Turkish")
30166 - Plain Twist/Skelp
34723 - 2 Iron
34247 - 2 Str

. . . . .*39f Damas 1: Variations of English twist. [Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .25 Sep 1861, "Tracker's Overlsmf News", Calcutta reporting arrival of guns for sale from UK:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*39g Damas 2: Crolle paterns – variations of Large scroll, Symmetric, or Annular Crolle
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*39h Damas 2: Other Patterns. “Damas Mouchette,” and “Assymetric or Annular Crolle.”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

====== *39 1828-1900; Reilly Barrels: FOOTNOTES CONT BELOW======
====== *39 1828-1900; Reilly Barrels: FOOTNOTES CONT ======

. . Barrel Blanks:

. . . . .*39i William Fullerd mark:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*39j 12543 with Liège proof mark:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . Initials on Barrels, 1870’s:

. . . . .*39k Barrels with Initials:
. . . . . . . . . .SN 17552 (WJ), 17626 (WJ), 18593 (WJ), 19500(GE), 20249 (BE), 20255 (GE), 20466 (BE), 21361 (CP), 21369 (FR), and 21839 (WE)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . .*39l 19797 – Barrels contemporaneous to the above with no initials
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . Steel Barrels, 1882:

. . . . .*39m Whitworth advertisement, Jan 1882:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*39n The first extant Reilly with a confirmed Whitworth barrel:
SN 24365, a 12 gauge SxS pigeon gun with 31” barrels - top lever, side fences, low hammers, flat file cut rib. It is dated per the chart to 1882.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

====== *39 1828-1900; Reilly Barrels: END FOOTNOTES ======
Likely a W.C. Scott gun made for O'Reilly the shyster....
============= *40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly's TEXT ==============

*40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly’s; Reilly Engraving and Marketing Others' Guns:

No Reilly SN-not made by Reilly: In addition to making his own guns, selling used guns, etc. Reilly, thoughout the history of the company marketed guns produced by others but finished and engraved by him. It was a major line of revenue for the company. These guns sported the Reilly name and address, but were not serial-numbered. If gun has no serial number, but has the Reilly name on it, he either 1) obtained the gun “in the white” and finished it or 2) it came to him complete from the manufacturer and he simply engraved and marketed it. He did not claim to have made it.

To differentiate, Reilly’s serial numbered guns were made by him; they include his own guns and guns he made using others’ patents under license such as the previously pictured Terry Patent breech loader, Prince Patent breech Loaders, Nuthall’s Patent, Gen. Jacob’s Patent, etc.

This was not at all unique to Reilly…other gunmakers did the same thing; Cogswell & Harrison had a “retail” branch (they placed a "retailed" insert plate on the guns); Holland & Holland were marketing a Lee-Speed at the turn of the century.

As examples in the first instance, there are the following:
-- A number of classic looking Reilly SxS’s with Birmingham proofs, *40a,
-- Enfields likely marketed to the Yoemanry Militia*40b,
-- Needle-fire Rook Rifles made in an ubiquitous style, market by many gun makers and the time and possibly made by Adams*40c
-- Complex four-barreled high-end muzzle loaders from 1858-59 with London proofs but no Reilly serial number.*40d
-- Later the history of the Reilly-Comblain will be discussed, 6,000 guns with Reilly’s name on it, but not one serial numbered.
-- The same applied in the 1870’s to Reilly Martini-Henry’s and Swinburns.

As for the second instance, during this period Reilly retailed several complete guns. These include:
-- Sharpes Rifles, for which Reilly became a UK distributor. (Sharps had obtained a contract with UK in 1855 for 6,000 guns; They saw action in the mutiny and along the NWFP but were not adopted generally by the army and were phased out after the adoption of the Snider; Sharps along with Prince may have been an early Reilly hope for a large Arsenal contract; he continued to advertise them for 20 years.*40e
-- Winchesters - at least three are still in existence;*40f
-- An Adams Beaumont revolving cylinder carbine from 1855*40g; among many others.
-- As the 60’s and 70’s progressed, he offered ready made guns from other makers (including Westley-Richards) as well in his advertisements.

These non-serial numbered Reilly’s cannot help with the Reilly date chart. Nevertheless examples are provided in order to establish their existence and articulate the concept of Reilly putting guns on the market with his name that he did not claim to make. This may help others in understanding what they are analyzing.

=========== *40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly's END TEXT ============
======= *40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly's FOOTNOTES ========

*40 Other Reilly-named Long-Guns Marketed but Not Serial-Numbered/Made by The Company:

. . . . .*40a, Examples of a number of NSN classic looking Reilly labeled shotguns and rifles, most but not all with Birmingham proofs,

-- NSN: E.M. Reilly & Co. London on the upper rib. London proof house markings, 12, and a small R.W. stamp. Both locks are expertly hand engraved with scrolls and Reilly & Co. below the breech.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

-- NSN: 8 bore Single Hammer pin fire:. (LEFT); Birmingham proofs. 34 1/4-inch round to octagonal three-stage barrel with 3 1/4-inch chamber, about true cylinder boring, the frame, non-rebounding bar lock, hammer and rotary underlever with scroll engraving, 14 1/2-inch figured stock including 3/4-inch extension, 9lb. 9oz., nitro re-proof S2; - Compared to a serial number Reilly from the same period.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

-- NSN: 4 bore, Muzzle loading Hammer gun (TOP PHOTO); Restocked in South Africa (for a left hander?); Top flat is engraved "E. M. Reilly & Co. London". Bottom flat is stamped with Birmingham black powder proof. E. M. Reilly & Co. is on front portion of plate. Weight: 16 lbs. 6 oz. Compared to a serial numbered Reilly (BOTTOM PHOTO):
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

-- NSN: 12 Bore Sidelock made by Reilly for Oaks & Co., Madras, India:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*40b - NSN Enfields: (likely marketed to the Yoemanry Militia):
3 band 1853 Enfield example from c1859 - NSN:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*40c - NSN Needle-fire Rook Rifles made in an ubiquitous style, marketed by many gun makers and the time and possibly made by Trantor:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*40d - NSN Complex four-barreled high-end muzzle loaders with London proofs but no Reilly serial numbe:.
Gun
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Ad – 1858 Book…”Ho to the American West”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*40e - NSN Revolving cyliunder carbines, maker unnown (Note the classic 1850's Reilly engraving on the gun and the London proof marks):
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

======== *40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly's FOOTNOTES CONT BELOW =========
=========== *40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly's FOOTNOTES CONT ============

. . . . .*40f - NRSN Sharpes Rifles, for which Reilly became a UK distributor,
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*40g - NRSN Winchesters, at least three are still in existance;
02 Oct 1875, Illustrated Sporting News
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
-- WIN SN 10808. 1876 rifle .50 ex caliber 22 round barrel-buttton magazine, British proofed. Part of an order for 10 guns SN 10803-13, shipped to UK. (Photo is of SN 10810): " In warehouse 10-09-1880, shipped 10-14-1880, order # 21230. s/n 10803 through 10813 were all part of the same order number with same configuration."  
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
-- WIN SN 110103: 1873 (thrid model) Winchester from 1884, 32.30 WCF, Britich proofs. It was imported to UK by Reilly and marketed by Cogswell & Harrrison in their retail shop.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
-- WIN SN 189115 B; Winchester Repeating Arms, New Haven CT on the barrel, inscribed E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford St., London. (no photo)

. . . . .*40h NRSN Beaumont-Adams revolving cylinder carbines: Patent fie-shot double-action percussion revolving rifle retailed by “Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London,” Serial Nr. B.7452, Patent Nr, 25100R,
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=========== *40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly's END FOOTNOTES ============
-- WIN SN 110103: 1873 (third model) Winchester from 1884, 32.30 WCF, British proofs. It was imported to UK by Reilly and marketed by Cogswell & Harrison in their retail shop.

As far as I know Reilly was never the agent for Winchester in the UK.Do you have a Winchester Letter that confirms who the rifle was shipped to from the factory for this rifle?

Regards

Alan
I think this shows reilly would sell anything he could get his hands on but it dose not prove he had a 300 man work force ,a 20000??? Gun order
Well mc, if you don't believe the UK 1881 census, or anything you've read here along with all the evidence I've provided and will be providing in future posts, then there's nothing much more I can do for you (except complete the history). I now start to understand the bitter bile that Lang, Reilly and Blanche experienced when they began to market break-action pin-fires. (You do accept that Reilly made pinfires?)

20,000 piece gun order? If you're referring to the Winchester, it was order #21000 for 10 guns (corrected). Reilly did make over 6,000 Reilly-Comblains based on use numbers which will be subject of a future paragraph. This was already posted; The line is very long and research is scattered which is why I'm going back through the whole thing and putting it into chronological order.

Every gunmaker in London was selling whatever they could get their hands on, and was trying their darnedest to get a military contract from Arsenal. Read just about any random 1850's and 1860's gun advertisement.

1859 Lang ad:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Of course, you're welcome to post your research and evidence that Reilly was only a retailer from 1828 to 1912. (Why not a wholesaler at least?). After 5 years of searching, I have yet to find one such reference in the 19th and early 20th century press.
Alan D, I do not. I have only the internet reference which I'll post below. (Ad does not say why the seller believed that Reilly imported it). Welcome corrections (this is the type of substantive addition needed - thanks):

==============================================
Winchester 1873: (Post 1882)
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/819706501

Winchester Model 1873(Third Model) Lever-Action Rifle; 1884, New Haven, CT, USA Production/Cogswell & Harrison, London, England Retailed & Modified; Caliber: .32-20 WCF; Barrel: 20" Round; Stock: Plain Straight Grip Walnut, Crescent Buttplate; S/N: 110103
Early 3rd Model Winchester 1873 Rifle in carbine configuration with British proofs and Cogswell & Harrison retailer marking...this beautiful little rifle was manufactured at the New Haven factory in 1884 for retail on the British commercial market. Likely imported by Reilly, the gun was tested and proofed at the London House and retailed through the prestigious Cogswell & Harrison storefront. Manufactured during the first few weeks of 1884, the gun is among the earliest examples of a '73 chambered in this caliber, with .32-20 being first offered in 1882, and this short rifle may have been a dealer sample slated for the C&H showroom floor. The features are in line with a full-sized rifle, while the receiver has the extra step only seen on the small-bore '73s. Unusual features include an oddly-shaped, nitre blue front sight paired with a ladder rear sight from a Model 1876, which may have been special order features from the factory, or possibly added by the merchant for a client. Additional modifications include the addition of a Cogswell & Harrison retailer medallion in the stock, as well as the barrel, which measures 20" in length. No saddle ring is present, it appears that no end barrel band has ever been fitted, and the crown remains in-the-white. A beautifully preserved example of a British-shipped, modified & retailed American classic, the rifle displays little sign of actual use, and was likely acquired by the original owner to supplement a battery of other arms-possibly one including the large-bore 1876 Express Rifle that supplied this rifle's rear sight. In fine condition, this early .32 '73 with British proofs and desirable Cogswell & Harrison retailer medallion represents a sound investment that would be a unique addition to any advanced collection.


======================================

The point of this post was to demonstrate that Reilly marketed complete long guns adding his name to that of the maker, much like he did pistols.
-- So when he advertises a Westley-Richards by name, I'm assuming he's selling a gun actually made by Westley-Richards with the Reilly name added as the retailer.
-- However, if he built a Westley-Richards under license and serial numbered the gun, it would be a 'Reilly" with a Westley-Richard patent use number on it.
There are no Reilly serial-numbered Winchesters, Sharpes, Martini-Henry's, Swinburnes, or revolvers S&Ws, Colts, Trantor, Adams,' etc. (The Martini-Henry story is interesting and is subject of a future chapter).
=============== *41 Reilly and Pistols TEXT ===============

*41 Reilly and Pistols

Reilly always retailed pistols of all types from the beginning of the firm to the end. He engraved them and put his name on them. However, after 1837 he did not serial number them although Reilly was still listed as “gun and pistol makers” in business anthologies as previously noted in chapter 6.

By 1859 he was selling all types of pistols and revolvers, Trantor, Adams, Colt, Smith&Wesson;*41a He sold Howdah's, pepperboxes, duelers, derringers, Flobert, etc.*41b Some of these are extremely well made.*41c Some are highly engraved such as a gold-washed Trantor revolver that certainly did not leave the Trantor factory like that.*41d But, because he did not serial number these guns, he did not build them.

There are accounts of people buying a Reilly revolver, walking out of the shop and committing suicide on the sidewalk. An Irish terrorist purchased a Reilly revolver in 1898 meaning harm and was arrested; It is interesting that the Reilly shop foreman at the time James Curtis suddenly couldn't identify the man who bought it (Reilly's were Irish of course).

Reilly apparently did assemble foreign made revolvers from parts imported from Liège possibly as early as 1860. But Reilly did not serial number assembled guns - witness the Martini-Henry Reilly rifles (see below). Thus pistols are ignored in this study; they cannot be used to date Reilly long-guns except for those with surviving cases with original trade labels, which helped build a data-base of Reilly case labels.

Note: A Reilly pepperbox may have been weilded by "Flashman" in the novel Flashman and the Mountain of Light, by George MacDonald Fraser.*41e

Note2: An 1890's "Vampire Kit" exists with cross, hammer and wooden spikes, vials for holy water, bible, mirror (for checking if the suspected Vampire has a reflection), various holy relics etc. with two Reilly, 316 High Holborn pocket pistols firing silver bullets. Whether Reilly marketed the kit is questionable (Vampire stories originated in the 1890's).*41f

============= *41 Reilly and Pistols END TEXT =============
============= *41 Reilly and Pistols FOOTNOTES =============

*41 Reilly and Pistols

. . . . .*41a Reilly marketed revolvers: Collage Includes Colt, Smith&Wesson, Adams, Webley, Beaumont-Adams, Webley-Sykes, Tower Bulldog, Trantor...
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*41b Reilly marketed hand-guns:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*41c J.C. Reilly pin-fire hand gun, c1856:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*41d Reilly Trantor presentation revolver, 1860’s:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*41e Reilly 1846? Pepperbox and Flashman and the Mountain of Light:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*41f 1896 Vampire kit with two J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn pocket pistols firing silver bullets:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=========== *41 Reilly and Pistols END FOOTNOTES ===========
I see all your posting and I understand all the effort on your research I just see a lot of speculation with underlined press quoting reilly good luck with your quest I'm not trying to piss anyone off
Thanks mc, This is analysis but that is the way history is written. If you have doubts about an assertion, break it down and I'll post some more stuff, and together we will walk through the analysis of what we're looking at.

As an example start off with these:

-- Reilly built pin-fires. Are you ok with that?
. . . . .-- Was Reilly one of the first to build pin-fires in UK along with Lang and Blanch?
. . . . .-- Was there anybody else in all of UK who could have built those four early Reilly pin-fires? If so, who?

-- Do you accept the Reilly serial number dating chart? (To discuss the above pinfires you have to date them first)

-- Do you think he exhibited at 1851 Crystal Palace and 1855 Paris Universelle World's Fairs? If so, was he showing others' work and claiming it was his?

-- Do you believe he provided guns to "The Field" for the two trials in 1858 and 1859?
. . . . .-- If so do you think "The Field" would have let him submit other gunmakers' guns for the trials?
. . . . .-- Do you think the other gunmakers at the test would have allowed this?
. . . . .-- If you believe he submitted others' guns for the test, whose were they?

Just a few questions to begin to address the above doubts. This process can continue for each point made in each paragraph. But start with the above four. (This is why each chapter is being reposted, added to and footnoted. I have already been accused of "cherry picking" data).

"I just see a lot of speculation with underlined press quoting Reilly"!! I've got to admit that a statement like this...when everything is laid out step by step to read, with all the specific questions that could be asked...pretty well boggles the mind.
Originally Posted by Argo44
Alan D, I do not. I have only the internet reference which I'll post below. (Ad does not say why the seller believed that Reilly imported it). Welcome corrections (this is the type of substantive addition needed - thanks):

==============================================
Winchester 1873: (Post 1882)
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/819706501

Winchester Model 1873(Third Model) Lever-Action Rifle; 1884, New Haven, CT, USA Production/Cogswell & Harrison, London, England Retailed & Modified; Caliber: .32-20 WCF; Barrel: 20" Round; Stock: Plain Straight Grip Walnut, Crescent Buttplate; S/N: 110103
Early 3rd Model Winchester 1873 Rifle in carbine configuration with British proofs and Cogswell & Harrison retailer marking...this beautiful little rifle was manufactured at the New Haven factory in 1884 for retail on the British commercial market. Likely imported by Reilly, the gun was tested and proofed at the London House and retailed through the prestigious Cogswell & Harrison storefront. Manufactured during the first few weeks of 1884, the gun is among the earliest examples of a '73 chambered in this caliber, with .32-20 being first offered in 1882, and this short rifle may have been a dealer sample slated for the C&H showroom floor. The features are in line with a full-sized rifle, while the receiver has the extra step only seen on the small-bore '73s. Unusual features include an oddly-shaped, nitre blue front sight paired with a ladder rear sight from a Model 1876, which may have been special order features from the factory, or possibly added by the merchant for a client. Additional modifications include the addition of a Cogswell & Harrison retailer medallion in the stock, as well as the barrel, which measures 20" in length. No saddle ring is present, it appears that no end barrel band has ever been fitted, and the crown remains in-the-white. A beautifully preserved example of a British-shipped, modified & retailed American classic, the rifle displays little sign of actual use, and was likely acquired by the original owner to supplement a battery of other arms-possibly one including the large-bore 1876 Express Rifle that supplied this rifle's rear sight. In fine condition, this early .32 '73 with British proofs and desirable Cogswell & Harrison retailer medallion represents a sound investment that would be a unique addition to any advanced collection.


======================================

The point of this post was to demonstrate that Reilly marketed complete long guns adding his name to that of the maker, much like he did pistols.
-- So when he advertises a Westley-Richards by name, I'm assuming he's selling a gun actually made by Westley-Richards with the Reilly name added as the retailer.
-- However, if he built a Westley-Richards under license and serial numbered the gun, it would be a 'Reilly" with a Westley-Richard patent use number on it.
There are no Reilly serial-numbered Winchesters, Sharpes, Martini-Henry's, Swinburnes, or revolvers S&Ws, Colts, Trantor, Adams,' etc. (The Martini-Henry story is interesting and is subject of a future chapter).

James Kerr & Co through the London Armoury Co had the Winchester agency for the UK.

Regards

Alan
Originally Posted by mc
I see all your posting and I understand all the effort on your research I just see a lot of speculation with underlined press quoting reilly good luck with your quest I'm not trying to piss anyone off

Just be thankful he didn't buy a Purdy
Thanks Alan D., Reilly probably purchased WIN SN 10808 from Kerr and engraved and marketed it. First advertisement for Kerr as Sole Winchester agent is 28 November 1874, "The Field."
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
I love the glowing report on the winchester 4inch group at 100 yards and this accuracy is unsurpassed in england I love the copy editors .minute of tree stump
Is it in Tombstone where the Coroner’s records particularise a verdict of Suicide with the facts “Opened fire with a six-shooter on a man armed with a Winchester rifle 100 yards away”?
Henry Mortan Stanley, the Welsh American and the greatest African explorer (who found Dr. Livingston I presume) on Reilly and Winchester. How I Found Livingstone.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
======== *40 Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition TEXT ========

*42 Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition
(This is not meant to be an in-depth analysis of UK ammunition in the pin-fire era but rather a cursory look at Reilly’s involvement in the cartridge business, which came to be a major revenue producer for him. As such there may be some errors in the below; there is not much information available though specialists in cartridges may have more).

For the first five years of Lefaucheaux pin-fire history in the UK, 1854-1860 the majority of the shells and shell hulls used were imported from France. As pointed out above there is a Reilly 12 gauge rifle pin-fire cartridge dated 1855 probably imported from France.*42a The French hulls of course were meant to be reloaded. During the 1858 trials a young Reilly employee was designated to do this task to assure all guns had equal charges, demonstrating Reilly’s involvement in the reloading business.*42b

The principle UK maker of shells and ammunition Eley seems to have begun offering pin-fire shells in early 1858; the first Eley ad for a breech loading cartridge is 02 January 1858 (possible for a rifle such as a Prince) and the first specifically for a pin-fire shotgun in May 1858.*42c These Eley cartridges initially received bad reviews per letters to the Field.*42d.

In a letter he wrote to “The Field” in December 1857, EM Reilly complained about hide-bound practices of the UK cartridge establishment and the inability of UK ammunition makers to manufacture pin-fire shells even when given complete examples, plans and drawings.*42e By that time Reilly was guaranteeing access to ammunition for gentlemen who bought his pin-fires.*42f

In an 1859 book by the editor of “The Field” the author “Stonehenge” pointed out that even at that late date at the very end of decade, French shells could be found in every town in UK and were clearly predominant.*42g

By 1858 it appears that Reilly, frustrated with Eley and possibly influenced by France, saw a marketing opportunity and had made the decision to go into the shotgun shell manufacturing and sales business. Reilly from the beginning of his involvement with pinfires, mentioned “cartridges” in his advertisements for breech-loaders. However, the first stand-alone mention in a Reilly advertisement of cartridge’s being sold appeared in June 1859.*42h Who made the cartridge casings for Reilly is unknown. It is possible that he imported them from France under contract with his name stamped on the base, or he may have found a local manufacturer.

Note: A drawing of a Reilly cartridge which appeared in a book published in early 1860 shows a pinfire 12 bore cartridge with only "Reilly" stamped on the case much like the 1855 12 bore cartridge pictured above.*42i The name of the company changed to E.M. Reilly & Co. circa Feb 1859.*42j. This may indicate that Reilly was filling and selling his own cartridges in 1858-early 1859.

Centripetal Machine: In 1861 he patented a new machine for crimping shells called a “centripetal device.”*42k This patent was renewed twice in 1891 and 1892.*42l

Cost of pinfire cartridges: In 1859 “Stonehenge” recorded the cost of French pin-fire cartridges, 2£ 10s per 1000 cartridges. In modern dollars that would be around $450 for 1000 cartridges, an average of about $11.25 per box of 25, $.45 per cartridge.*42m. (Cheaper than RST today).

Reilly continued to manufacture and sell his own shells for the next 40 years making the jump to marketing centerfire hulls and cartridges around 1865. This was apparently a significant stream of income for the company. Reilly shells (in centerfire format) have been found in archeological digs including an investigation of an old whaling station in New Zealand*42n and in Saskatchewan, Canada.*42o By the 1890's he was providing buyers with options on smokeless powders.*42p.

There is some question on if and when he began to use Eley as a source for his cartridge hulls; the Reilly cartridges unearthed in the archeological dig in Canada allegedly were made by Eley (no pictures to confirm this).*42q. However, in 1895 Reilly began advertising the sale of Eley cartridges in his stores for the first time, perhaps an acknowledgement that his cartridge business had succumbed to the weight of mass production.*42r.

====== *40 Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition END TEXT ======
====== *40 Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition FOOTNOTES ======

*42 Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition

. . . . .*42a. Reilly 12 gauge rifle pin-fire cartridge dated 1855 probably imported from France. (photo Aaron Newcomer)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42b A young Reilly employee was designated to do this task to assure all guns had equal charges. .*42c
. . . . . . . . . .09 Jul 1859, The Field
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42c The principle UK maker of shells and ammunition Eley did market pin-fire shells as early as 1857. *42
. . . . . . . . . .02 Jan 1858, “The Field”. 1st known ad for Eley breech loading shells.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .01 May 1858,”The Field” - 1st Eley ad specifically for a breech-loading shotgun cartridge.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42d Early Eley cartridges received bad reviews per letters to the Field. Reilly urged to import hulls fron France
. . . . . . . . . .27 Nov 1858 “The Field”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42e EM Reilly complained about hide-bound practices of the UK cartridge establishment and the inability of UK ammunition makers to manufacture pin-fire shells.
. . . . . . . . . .26 Dec 1857, “The Field”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42f Summer 1857 Reilly was guarenteeing access to ammuntion for gentlemen who bought his pin-fires*42g
. . . . . . . . . .26 Jun 1857
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42g French shells could be found in every town in UK and were clearly predominent.*42
. . . . . . . . . .1859, Shotgun and Sporting Rifle, by Stonehenge, p.287
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42h Reilly’s first advertisement for his own cartridges may have appeared in 1859 when he began advertising “Patent Cartridges”. Reilly never specifically advertised “Reilly cartridge” but “patent cartridges may (or may not) apply to his own shells.”
. . . . . . . . . .21 June 1859, “Bell’s Life”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

====== *40 Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition FOOTNOTES CONT BELOW======
====== *40 Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition FOOTNOTES CONT ======

. . . . .*42i Sketch of Reilly cartridge from Volunteer Rifle book published 1860 (sketch from 1859) with "Reilly, London":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42j Reilly 15 head stamping with "E.M. Reilly & Co." (photo Aaron Newcomer)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42k 1861 he patented a new machine for crimping shells.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .22 Jun 1861, The Field re centripetal machine, cartridges and first known ad for Jones Underlever.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .1962 ad
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42l 1890s Reilly crimping patents
REILLY, E M 6413 15/04/1891 Loading cartridges.
REILLY, E M 5018 15/03/1892 Loading cartridges.

. . . . .*42m Reilly cartridges found in an investigation of an old whaling station in New Zealand.
. . . . . . . . . .“Te Hoe Shore Whaling Station Artefact Assemblage” by J, Harris, 2005
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42n Reilly cartridges found Saskatchewan.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42o Cost of pinfire cartridges in 1859:
. . . . . . . . . .02 March 1859, “the Field”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

====== *40 Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition END FOOTNOTES ======
Originally Posted by Argo44
Thanks Alan D., Reilly probably purchased WIN SN 10808 from Kerr and engraved and marketed it. First advertisement for Kerr as Sole Winchester agent is 28 November 1874, "The Field."
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


Very interesting. I tried to post a picture of a James Kerr trade label advertising the fact they had the Winchester agency for the UK, but I always have difficulty in posting photos on this website for some reason.

When Colt closed their London Agency in 1912/13 the London armory Co took over as the Colt agent in the UK.
This with the Winchester agency was a complimentary pairing.

I don't find the 4 inch group group at 100 yards to bad. this must have been the Model 1873 Winchester with ordinary iron sights. Also, if the barrel was clean on the first shot there would be a degree of fouling by the last shot, due to the black powder.

Regards

Alan
======== *43 Early 1860’s: Reilly and Cutlery, Swords, Bayonettes TEXT =======

*43 Early 1860’s: Reilly and Cutlery, Swords, Bayonettes

Business anthologies at this time identified EM Reilly as both gun and pistol manufacturers and sword/cutlery makers.*43a Reilly's name has been found engraved on bayonettes and swords from the era. Bsyonettes were a part of the Yoemanry Militia “kit” and Reilly incuded a bayonette to go with each militia rifle he sold, enough volume to make a subsidiary business profitable.*43b

One surviving Reilly bayonette is a slightly modified version of the “official” “sword bayonettes” attached to Gen. Jacob’s patent SxS’s which fired an explosive bullet; Reilly made the guns under license (see chapter 30 above).*43c

====== *43 Early 1860’s: Reilly and Cutlery, Swords, Bayonettes END TEXT =====
======== *43 Reilly Cutlery, Swords, Bayonettes FOOTNOTES ========

*43 Reilly swords, bayonettes:

. . . . . *43a 1864 – Williams’s Manufacturers’ Directory: Reilly listed under “Swords: Cutlers Manufacturers” section:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*43b Standard pattern bayonet and Volunteer rifle:
. . . . . . . . . .22 Dec 1860, “Volunteer Services Gazette” - Note SN EMR 11396: This number no doubt is he serial number of the Enfield which the bayonettes went with.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*43c Sword Bayonette
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Gen Jacob’sSword Bayonette
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

====== *43 Reilly Cutlery, Swords, Bayonettes END FOOTNOTES ======
========== *44 Reilly accessories TEXT ==========

*44 Reilly Accessories

Reilly like many London gunmakers marketed numerous accessories for his guns. Reilly devoted a lot of time advertising for the Yoemanry Militia, organized in the late 1850’s and offered everything from knapsacks to cartridge belts.*44a A unit he outfitted, the Princesses’ Own, won acclaim for their showmanship, marching and appearance.*44b

Reilly sold everything associated with the trade, cartridge boxes, cartridge belts, bullet molds, likely the products of small cottage industries within London.*44c

======== *44 Reilly accessories END TEXT ========
======== *44 Reilly accessories FOOTNOTES ========

*45 Reilly Accessories

. . . . .*44a
. . . . . . . . . .Dec 1859, Illustrated London News:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*44b :
. . . . . . . . . .08 Feb 1861, Volunteer Services Gazette. Belts,, pouches etc.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .25 March 1861, Bell’s Life – cases, fittings
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*44c Extant Accessories:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

====== *44 Reilly accessories END FOOTNOTES ======
Gene, just posted on Youtube.
Comparing an inexpensive BLNE Reilly vs. expensive SLE Grant. Interesting discussion and shooting.


Gil
Thanks Gil, I don't have that Reilly in my library; I've sent them a message asking for SN and address on the rib. Very interesting video...and just plain pleasant!

In my database of photos of almost 600 Reilly's - 40 boxlocks....there is not one other "scroll-back" action. There is not one other Greener cross bolt. And the engraving does not look like Reilly. I tried to capture a SN on the tang...There doesn't look to be a one or it just won't show up. And, there is no way a real EM Reilly in that condition would sell for ÂŁ 200.

I have to wonder if this might a Reilly marketed gun (although he said it was a "London gun"). There is something odd. I've written to Holts and to Simon Reinhold .. No response. A pity. I'm not trying to "make wrong." I just want the SN and address for the records.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
===== *45 1850’s-1895: Reilly staff; quality young employees TEXT ====

*45 1850’s-1895: Reilly staff; quality young employees:

Without company records available it is difficult to determine who worked for Reilly during the 90 years of the company’s existance. This difficulty is not confined to Reilly but rather is one found across the board in London gunmaking except perhaps for some elite gunmaker such as Purdey (three of their engravers are known) and those whose records still are intect. The UK census for 1831-41-51 asked only the interviewees occupation. 1861-71-81 the census also asked employers the number of workers employeed.

The only way to catch a glimpse of who was working at Reilly during this time is if the employees surfaced in some news report or if they self identified later. There are four so identified shop managers and one store manager in France:

. . . . .John Baker – 185?-1861:*45a Not much is known about Baker. He was born in 1822 and was married. He appeared in a court case on behalf of Reilly in April 1861, when Reilly was seeking payment for a volunteer militia gun from a deadbeat. In June 1861 he registered the patent for Reilly for the shotgun shell crimper and per a newspaper article in October 1861 he accidentally poisoned himself. Since the patent was registered for 315 Oxford Street, he must have been managing that shop. He lived in Westminister Parish, probably within a mile of the Oxford Street manufactory. There seems to be no record of him in the 1861 London census.

. . . . .W. Jennings – 1869:*45b. Jennings was identfied as Reilly’s Shop Foreman in a 01 May 1869 series of articles about a fellow who committed suicide after buying a revolver from Reilly (specific store not identified).

. . . . .Francis Davis –1870:*45c He testified for Reilly at the 1870 hearings for violating UK neutrality in the Franco-Prussian war by trying to ship 2,000 shells to his shop in Paris in unmarked packages. No further information on Davis.

. . . . .Ruben Hambling - 1884-85:*45d He may have started out with Reilly in the late 1850's - ran his own gun shop in the midlands then back to Reilly:

. . . . . . . . . .“On the matter of Reuben Hambling, he was a gunmaker. Born in 1833 in Blackawton, Devon, he apprenticed under his father, William Bartlett Hambling. He married in London in 1858, had a daughter there in 1861, and was listed in the 1861 census. He was most likely working as a journeyman for a London gunmaker, name unknown. He was in Manchester from 1865-1869, with his own shop at 27 New Bailey Street, Salford. He may have occupied another address for a time, on Bexley Street. He then moved to High Wycombe northwest of London around 1872 and lived for a time in Brighton (1874-1875), possibly working with his brother William, another gunmaker. From at least 1884-1885 he lived in Paddington, London, on Ashmore Rd. This may have been the time when he was employed by Reilly. After this, he moved to Ashford in Kent, with a business at 41 New Street. He lived at number 39. According to the 1891 census his son, Roger, was apprenticed to him. Reuben Hambling died on 12 December 1891. His son continued the business until 1894.": (Courtesy of Steve Nash)

. . . . . . . . . .Per the Internet Gun Club: "As there is both a New Bailey Street and a New Bexley Street, there is no way of knowing if the paper made an error, or if Reuben Hambling moved from one location to another. He didn't stay long in Manchester and later worked for E. M. Reilly & Co. in London, and finally in Ashford, in Kent. Reuben Hambling died in 1891."

. . . . .James Curtis – 1895:*45de/color] He testified in a trial re the purchase of a Reilly revolver by an Irish terrorist (and on the day of the trial conveniently couldn't identify the purchaser).

. . . . .M. Poirat- 1868-84? Paris:[color:#FF0000]*45f
Manager of Reilly store at 2 rue Scribe, Paris, who tried to convince the new 3rd Republic to buy 6,000 Chessapot rifles stored in Birmingham from Reilly in fall 1870 - Paris still under siege, Reilly's rifles in his 2 rue Scribe shop confiscated by the revolution. (This would have been totally a violation of UK “neutrality”...far worse that 2,000 shells but he might have gotten away with it. The size of the crime would have been justified by the profits). Poirat was obviously a salesman, not a technician).

There are two young workers identified by last name only, who were highly complimented in the press leading to the conclusion that Reilly carefully screened his young employees and meticulously trained them:

. . . . .Mr. Bennett - 1858:*45g He carefully loaded rounds for the guns used in "The Field" trials of 1858 and 1859.

. . . . .Mr. McNamara - 1862:*45h He was responsible for guiding visitors through the Reilly 1862 London World's Fair exhibit.

=== *45 1850’s-1895: Reilly staff; quality young employees END TEXT ====
=== *45 1850’s-1895: Reilly staff; quality young employees FOOTNOTES ===

*45 1850's-1895: Reilly staff; Quality young employees:

. . . . .*45a "John Baker" -Reilly foreman from 185?-61:
. . . . . . . . . .June 1861 registered the Reilly Patent shell crimper:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .Testified at fraud hearings: 2 April 1861, “Sun”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . .b.1822; Married; Died October 1861 accidental poisoning: 16 Oct 1861, “Sun”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*45b "Francis Davis" – Reilly manager 1870: He testified for Reilly at the 1870 hearings for violating UK neutrality in the Franco-Prussian war:
. . . . . . . . . .08 Oct 1870, “The Field”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*45c "Ruben Hambling" 1884-85 . – May have started out with Reilly in the late 1850's - ran his own gun shop in the midlands then back to Reilly:

. . . . . . . . . .Voting records for Paddington, London 1884-85, Reuben Hambling:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . . . . . . .Per 1861 census Hambling was a gunmaker in Middlesex (London), UK. It would not be surprising to find he worked for Reilly at that time early in his career:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .**45d "James Curtis" - Testified in a trial re the purchase of a Reilly revolver by an Irish terrorist.
. . . . . . . . . .13 Sep 1895, “Kilburn Times”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*45e "M. Poirat" - manager of Reilly store at 2 rue Scribe, Paris, who tried to convince the new 3rd Republic to buy 6,000 Chessapot rifles stored in Birmingham from Reilly. P.14
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

There are a couple of Reilly workers also mentioned in articles - it seems Reilly carefully selected and trained his young apprentices.

. . . . .*45f "Mr. Bennett," 1858: who carefully loaded rounds for the guns used in "The Field" trials of 1858 and 1859.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*45g "Mr. McNamara" 1862: who was responsible for guiding visitors through the Reilly 1862 London World's Fair exhibit.
Mr. McNamara:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

==== *45 1850’s-1895: Reilly staff; quality young employees END FOOTNOTES ===
=========== Pause 5 - Review of principle points 1828-1861 ============

The history is now up to 1861; a decade of very rapid change is ahead. Here are the principle points made over the last 45 chapters. If anyone has comments or objections to any of this, could we please discuss this further now.

And as always if anyone has evidence that Reilly was "merely a retailer" during this period 1820-1860, please post it so it can be debated. Thanks.

----------------------------- CHRONOLOGICAL -------------------------------

-- 1814 – Aug 1835 - Address: - 12 Middle Row, High Holborn.
-- 1814 – Jun 1912 - Name: - Joseph Charles Reilly or J.C. Reilly
-- c1814-1828 - Gun Sales: - Reilly selling and engraving used guns taken in trade for jewelry.
-- c1828 - Gun making: - Reilly began making his own guns in addition to dealing in quality used guns.
-- c1831 - Gun making: - Making and selling guns in the white to country dealers
-- c1835 - Gun making: - Possibly making and selling guns in the white to other London gunmakers.
-- 1828-1837 - Gun making: - He was a pistol maker as well as a long-gun maker
-- Aug 1835 - Address: - moved to 316 High Holborn.
-- 1835 - 1847 - Label: - "Joseph Charles Reilly, Gun Maker, 316 High Holborn, Near Chancery Lane"
-- 1835 – 47 - Address: Facilities: - He had a short indoor range at 316.
-- 1837 - SN's- Gun Sales- He quit numbering pistols but continued to assemble and engrave them

-- [c1840 - Gun Making: Air guns: - Making air guns in the 1840's. E.M. was billed as the expert,
-- Aug 1840 - Co. organization: - E.M. may have become a full partner in the firm in 1840 at the age of 23.
-- Aug 1840 - Name Change: - From "J.C. Reilly" to "Reilly" in advertisements
-- 1837-1847 - Gun making: - He was boring his own barrels as early as 1837.
-- Mar 1847 - Address: - moved to 502 New Oxford Street.
-- Mar 1847 - Dec 1847 - Label: : A New label was used for a few months: Resembles the 316 Label
-- Dec 1847 - 1856 - Label: - A label was created Dec 1847 which continued to 1856. Sketch of 502, Reilly, Gun Maker.
-- Dec 1847 - Aug 1858- Name Change: - "Reilly, Gun Maker"
-- Apr 1847 - SN’s: - Mainline serial numbers jumped up 5000 numbers from about 3350 to 8350 with the move in 1847.
-- Jan 1846 - Sep 1857 - SN’s: - J.C. kept SN's for himself as early as January 1846..called the "7000" series ending in 1857 with his retirement

-- 1851-1890 - Address: Facilities: - 300 yard outdoor shooting/testing range.
-- 1851 - Showcase: - EM represented the company at the Crystal Palace exposition.
-- 1850-1857 - Co. organization: J.C. and E.M., always worked from the same building and used the same trade/case labels.
-- 1850’s - Gun making: The company made custom guns and munitions for famous hunters and military heroes.
-- 1857 - Co. organization: J.C. retired - he died in 1864.
-- 1855 - Showcase: - EM represented the company at the Paris World's Fair.
-- 1855 - Gun making: Pinfires: Reilly began to developed pinfires.
-- 1856 - Gun making: Pinfires: Reilly began advertising and selling pinfires:Four Reilly pinfires from 1856-58 exist: 10054, 10128, 10355, and 10655. 10054 might be the earliest UK made pin-fire center-break gun in existence.
-- 1855 - Label: "Reilly, gun makers, 502 New Oxford Street, fusels a Bascule; Improved Breech Loaders," Sketch of 502 and 1851,55 medals.
-- [1850’s - Gun Making: Percussion Military rifles: - Reilly built military muzzle loading rifles including Enfield Rifle-Musket, General Jacob’s Rifle.
-- 1855-1865 - Gun Making: Breech loader rifles: He also built breech loading rifles including Prince Patent and Terry’s Patent

-- Aug 1858 - Address: - opened 315 Oxford Street manufactory "The Armoury"
-- 1858-1867 - Facilities: - 315 Oxford Street had a 50 yard indoor shooting gallery “on the premises”
-- Aug 1858 – Feb 1859 - Name Changes: - “Reilly & Co., Gun Makers
-- Feb 1859 - Aug 1860 - Name Changes: - “E.M Reilly & Co., Gun Makers
-- Aug 1860 – Apr 1861 - Name Changes: - “E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturer
-- post March 1861 - Name Changes: - “E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturers
-- Aug 1858 - Label: - 315 Oxford Street, The Manfactury – “Reilly, Gun Makers”
— Feb 1859 - Label: - 502 New Oxford Street, “E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Makers”
— Feb 1859 - Label: - 315 Oxford Street, Armoury House – “E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Makers”
— Apr 1861 - Label: – 502 New Oxford Street, “E.M. Reilly & Co. Gun Manufacturers”
-- 1859 - Gun sales: - Reilly sold guns and equipment kits to Yoemanry Militia and Gun Clubs both retail and wholesale, few made by him.
-- 1861 - Gun making; - He claimed to be making every part of every gun and invited viewers
-- 1850-1890's - Gun making: - He made his own guns & guns under license from other makers using their patents

-- 1828-1912 - Gun making: Stocks: - French Walnut; pistol grip for rifles and big bore fowlers; straight grip for shotguns
-- 1828-1912: Gun making: Engraving:
. . . . .1820-1830’s – Vine & scroll
. . . . .1840-1850’s – Large English scroll
. . . . .1860-1870’s – Intricate rose & scroll
. . . . .1870-1900’s – Fine rose & scroll
. . . . .1840’s-1860’s – some wildlife
-- 1828-1912 - Gun making Barrels: - London proofed; 30” for center-break shotgUns 24”-28” for break-action rifles.
. . . . .1836-1847 - barrels bored by Reilly.
. . . . .1820-1865 – Damascus, Plain English Stub Twist
. . . . .1865-1912 – Damascus Crolle patterns and variations.
. . . . .1880-1912 – Marketing steel Whitworth barrels
-- 1837-1912 - Gun sales: - Reilly engraved and sold all types of handguns but did not serial number them.
-- 1828-1912 - SN’s: - Reilly only serial numbered guns he built.
-- 1850-1912 - Gun sales: - He engraved and marketed guns he finished in the white; he retailed other makers guns of all types - none serial numbered.
-- 1858-1900 - Gun sales: Accessories: Ammo: - Reilly began marketing his own pinfire cartridges late 1858 and continued to do so for 50 years.
-- 1859-1865 - Gun sales: Accessories: Blades: - Reilly made cutlery and bayonettes for a decade

-- 1860-1900 - Co. Organization: - Some Reilly shop foremen have been identified.

----------------------------- TOPICAL -------------------------------

Address
-- 1814–Aug 1835 - Address: - 12 Middle Row, High Holborn.
-- Aug 1835 - Address: - moved to 316 High Holborn.
-- Mar 1847 - Address: - moved to 502 New Oxford Street.
-- Aug 1858 - Address: - opened 315 Oxford Street manufactory "The Armoury"

Facilities
-- 1835–1847 - Address: Facilities: - He had a short indoor range at 316.
-- 1851-1890 - Address: Facilities: - 300 yard outdoor shooting/testing range.
-- 1858-1867 - Facilities: - 315 Oxford Street had a 50 yard indoor shooting gallery “on the premises”

Name Changes
-- 1814 – Dec 1847 - Name: - Joseph Charles Reilly or J.C. Reilly
-- Aug 1840 - Name Change: - From "J.C. Reilly" to "Reilly" in advertisements
-- Dec 1847 - Aug 1858 - Name Change: - "Reilly, Gun Maker"
-- Aug 1858 – Feb 1859 - Name Changes: - “Reilly & Co., Gun Makers
-- Feb 1859 - Aug 1860 - Name Changes: - “E.M Reilly & Co., Gun Makers
-- Aug 1860 – Apr 1861 - Name Changes: - “E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturer
-- post-March 1861 - Name Changes: - “E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturers

Labels
-- 1835-1847 - Label: - "Joseph Charles Reilly, Gun Maker, 316 High Holborn, Near Chancery Lane"
-- Mar 1847 - Label: - New label was used for a few months: Resembles the 316 Label
-- Dec 1847 - Label: - New label Dec 1847; "Reilly, Gun Maker", 502 New Oxford Street; Sketch of 502,
-- Jun 1856 - Label: "Reilly, Gun Maker," 502 New Oxford Street, "Fusils a Bascule"; "Improved Breech Loaders," Sketch of 502 and 1851,1855 medals.
-- Aug 1858 - Label: - 315 Oxford Street, The Manufactury – “Reilly, Gun Makers”, "Fusil a Bascule", Shooting gallery
— Feb 1859 - Label: - 502 New Oxford Street, “E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Makers”, Sketch of 502 and medals remain.
— Feb 1859 - Label: - 315 Oxford Street, Armoury House – “E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Makers”
— Apr 1861 - Label: – 502 New Oxford Street, “E.M. Reilly & Co. Gun Manufacturers”; building sketch dropped; Reilly basic format label for the next 35 years.

SN’s
-- 1828-1912 - SN’s: - Reilly only serial numbered guns he built.
-- c1837 - SN's: - Pistols no longer serial numberedbut continued to assemble and engrave them
-- Apr 1847 - SN’s: - Mainline serial numbers jumped up 5000 numbers from about 3350 to 8350 with the move in 1847.
-- Jan 1846 - Sep 1857 - SN’s: - J.C. kept SN's for himself as early as January 1846,called the "7000" series 7000-8200 ending in 1857 with his retirement

Gun Making
-- c1828- Gun making: - Reilly began making his own guns in addition to dealing in quality used guns.
-- c1831- Gun making: - Making and selling guns in the white to country dealers
-- c1835- Gun making: - Possibly making and selling guns in the white to other London gunmakers.
-- 1828-1837 - Gun making: - He was a pistol maker as well as a long-gun maker
-- c1837 - SN's- Gun Making- He quit numbering pistols but continued to assemble and engrave them
-- c1840- Gun Making: Air guns: - Making air guns in the 1840's. E.M. was billed as the expert,
-- 1837-1847 - Gun making: - He was boring his own barrels as early as 1837.
-- 1850’s - Gun making: The company made custom guns and munitions for famous hunters and military heroes
-- 1855 - Gun making: Pinfires: Reilly began to developed pinfires.
-- 1856 - Gun making: Pinfires: Reilly began advertising and selling pinfires:Four Reilly pinfires from 1856-58 exist: 10054, 10128, 10355, and 10655. 10054 might be the earliest UK made pin-fire center-break gun in existence.
-- 1850’s - Gun Making: Percussion Military rifles: - Reilly built military muzzle loading rifles including Enfield Rifle-Musket and General Jacob’s Rifle.
-- 1855-1865 - Gun Making: Breech loader rifles: He also built breech loading rifles including Prince Patent and Terry’s Patent
-- 1861 - Gun making; - He claimed to be making every part of every gun and invited viewers
-- 1850-1912 - Gun making: - He made his own guns & guns under license from other makers using their patents
-- 1828-1912 - Gun making: Stocks: - French Walnut; pistol grip for rifles and big bore fowlers; straight grip for shotguns
-- 1828-1812: Gun making: Engraving:
. . . . .1820-1830’s – Vine & scroll
. . . . .1840-1850’s – Large English scroll
. . . . .1860-1870’s – Intricate rose & scroll
. . . . .1870-1900’s – Fine rose & scroll
. . . . .1840’s-1860’s – some engravings of dogs and wildlife
-- 1836-1912 - Gun making: Barrels: - London proofed; 30” for shotgUns 24”-28” for rifles.
. . . . .1836-1847 - Barrels bored by Reilly.
. . . . .1820-1865[ – Damascus, Plain English Stub Twist
. . . . .1865-1912 – Damascus Crolle patterns and variations.
. . . . .1880-1912 – Marketing steel Whitworth barrels

Gun Sales:
-- c1814-1912 - Gun Sales: - Reilly selling and engraving used guns taken in trade for jewelry.
-- c1837 - SN's-Gun Sales - He quit numbering pistols but continued to assemble and engrave them.
-- 1837-1912 - Gun sales: - Reilly engraved and sold all types of handguns but did not serial number them.
-- 1850-1912 - Gun sales: - He engraved and marketed guns he finished in the white; he retailed other makers guns of all types - none serial numbered.

========== Pause 5 - Review of principle points 1828-1861 ===========
======== *46 1861: Reilly manufacturing and sales: TEXT ==========

*46 1861: Reilly manufacturing and sales:

As the new decade of the 1860’s began and in the lead-up to the 1862 London Exposition, Reilly’s two workshops were busy. Reilly was making about 430 serial numbered guns a year, more than one a day, more than Boss, Purdey and Haris Holland combined. He had inceased his production by 30% after the spurt of orders received at the Paris Exposition Universelle in 1855 and with the demand for pinfire center-break guns probably, even with the addition of 315, was hard put to satisfy it.

His reputation as a gun maker after the two trials and with the opening of 315 Oxford Street blossomed. A tacit endorsement by “The Field” quoted in Reilly ads probably helped.*46a

-- Guns under License: In addition to making his own percussion and center-break guns and various breech loading rifles, he began to make guns using patent use numbers from other gun makers (as mentioned in a previous chapter).

. . . . .1861: Dougall “Lockfast” patent:*46b In 1861 Reilly advertised guns using the Dougall “Lockfast” patent (Patent 1128, May 1860).*46b(1) Dougall licensed production of his patent to other gunmakers including Belgians; among them in UK were Benjamin Cogswell, W & J Rigby, E M Reilly and John Lyell of Aberdeen. *46b(2) According to Crudrington & Baker, an entry for payment by Reilly to Dougall for a patent use number exists demonstrating that Reilly likely made the gun.
. . . . . . . . . .There is one extant Reilly Lockfast, sold on Gunstar some years ago unfortunately without mention of its serial number.*46b(3) It probably has the Dougall Patent use stamp like known examples.*46b(4)
. . . . . . . . . .It resembles Dougall SN 2186 in the Royal Armouries.*46b(5)

. . . . .1861: “Double grip” - “Jones Underlever:*46c In 1861 Reilly mentioned for the first time in advertisements his manufacture of the “double grip” system.*46c(1) This was Greener’s description of the Jones underlever patented in 1859. The patent was released to the general public in January 1862. Assuming that the “double grip’ referred to in the 1861 advertisement is indeed a Jones underlever, Reilly would have had to pay royalties to someone. After the patent went public, the U-L became Reilly’s go-to action for his own guns;
. . . . . . . . .SN 11937: 1861. The first extant Reilly with a Jones U-L*46c(2): E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London; 4 bore, Shotgun single barrel; U-L, non-rebounding hammer gun. (possibly converted from a percussion gun.)
. . . . . . . . .SN 12316: 1862.*46c(3) E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 14 bore, Shotgun SxS. pin-fire, U-L hammer gun, non-rebounding hammer, grip safety, extractor.
. . . . . . . . .SN 12527: 1862.*46c(4) E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 10 bore, Shotgun SxS. pin-fire (converted to C-F), U-L hammer gun, rebounding hammers (added).
. . . . . . . . .SN 33457: The last U-L so far photogaphed is 33457 (1890)*46c(5) E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 8 bore SxS Shotgun. U-L, hammer-gun; pistol grip.
There is a 10 bore 35012 – 1903 – no picture). Assuredly, though, if one wanted an U-L in 1911, Reilly would get if for you.

-- Developer of inventions: Various gunmakers and experimenters chose Reilly to develop and make their inventions:

. . . . .1859: Nuthall’s Patent:*46d In 1859 Major Nuthall’s patent rifle and ball were developed and built by Reilly per “The Field.”*46d(1) Nuthall rounded the rifling of the barrel to prevent fouling and this was found in a number of subsequent Reilly's. Reilly advertised using Nuthall’s Patent on his Enfield rifles:*46d(2). Reilly was one of two authorized manufacturers, the other been Turner.
. . . . . . . . . .While no Reilly Nuthall patent guns have been found, one made by Turner & Co. of Birmingham still exists. 31 ½ in. (80 cm.) barrel sighted to 1000 yards, marked 'MAJOR NUTHALL'S PATENT'; rounded groove, Birmingham proof marks:*46d(3)

. . . . .1861: .451 Enfield target rifle:*46e Reilly began making a .451 Enfield.*46e(1) which won marksmanship trophies according to a series of articles in “The Field.” Reilly was advertising “rounded off” rifling to reduce fouling (Nuthall Patent above).*46e(2). However the exact specifications of his match rifles are not clear other than the use of .451 elongated bullets and 5 groove rifling:
. . . . . . . . . .SN 1193712073[/color][/b], Reilly Enfield match rifle.*46e(3)

. . . . .1861: .451 Enfield experimental rifling: Writings in "The Field" from the era indicate extensive experiments with rifling were being conducted by everyone (this just a year after Henry filed his shallow groove rifling patent and after the Whitworth hexagonal .451 high velocity bullet made such an impact. One article referred to a rifling system with shallow groove rifling created by a Volunteer unit which Reilly was making.*46f

. . . . .1861: Capt. Scott's Patent Progressive Twist Rifling and bullet.*46g Reilly was sole manufacturer.

. . . . .1861: General Ray's Pattern Brigade Rifle with elongated bullet.*46h

. . . . .1861: Cape Guns:*46i Reilly was one of the first to advertise “Cape Guns” (Jun 1861).*46i(1) The earliest extant serial numbered Reilly cape guns are SN 12207 from late 1861, E.M Reilly & Co., 15 ga/.488 cal percussion gun and from early 1862 SN 12251 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London; SxS Cape rifle .25 bore/.500 cal; percussion hammer gun.*46i(2).

. . . . .1861: Bastin Lepage sliding action:*46j He also advertised a sliding action which was certainly Bastin Lepage. A number of London gunmakers at the time were using it. Purdey made 27 Bastin action guns; Durs Egg, Lylell, and others as well. (No extant Reilly Bastin action exists).

-- Retail display: Others chose Reilly’s retail shops to display their new inventions. An example is “The Field” itself; In 1861 ”The Field” decided to market a screw-on action for an Enfield which could act as both a breech loader and a muzzle loader.*46k. It was displayed at Reilly 's.

-- Auction sales: He sold off massive amounts of surplus guns, for instance auctioning 1,500 Enfields in 1861.*46l

-- Dog dealer? And oddly enough there are four advertisements over the course of 40 years for hunting dogs being sold by individuals, details to be obtained from Reilly's business. Whether Reilly himself was involve in selling dogs or whether he was just a clearing house of sorts is unknown.*46m

By 1861 Reilly’ had become known as a gun manufacturer who could get innovative projects made. It appears he rarely said, “No,” to an idea. (It is hard to imagine a gun maker such as Purdey being open to itinerant gun experimenters' concepts). His manufacturing of military rifles such as the Enfield, Jacob’s rifle, Terry Patent breech loader, and Prince patent breech loader, and his selection to make explosive bullets for Baker and Jacob, cutting edge technology at the time, only increased his reputation for seeking out innovations.

Again, Reilly was not an inventor himself; he was a business man. But he had an eye for what might sell. He more resembled the art dealer Paul Durand-Ruel, who funded the Impressionists. Reilly now had bigger things in mind, to wit a military contract using his reputation as a gun manufacturer. But first he was carefully planning his upcoming exhibit at the 1862 London Universal Exposition.

======= *46 1861: Reilly manufacturing and sales: END TEXT ========
======== *46 1861: Reilly manufacturing and sales: FOOTNOTES =========

*46 1861: Reilly manufacturing and sales:

. . . . . *46a Reilly promoted by a “The Field” article:
. . . . . . . . . .16 Oct 1858, “The Field”:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .16 Mar 1858, Bell’s “Life”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*46b Dougall 1860 “Lockfast” patent:
. . . . . . . . . .*46b(1) Advertisement
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .22 June 1861, “The Field”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .*46b(2) Dougall licensed production: TRW999 from IGC; Note: Internet Gun Club does not source their information for public consumption.
. . . . . . . . . .*46b(3) Gunstar Reilly Lockfast
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .*46b(4) Example of Dougall Patent License (Daryl Hollquist)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[/IMG][/URL]
. . . . . . . . . .*46b(5) Royal Armouries Reilly Lockfast:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*46c 1861 “double grip”:
. . . . . . . . . .**46c(1) 1st Advertisement
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .22 June 1861, “The Field”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .*46c(2) 11837 (Photo Holts) (this is possible originally a percussion gun converted to U-L)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .*46c(3) 12316 No photo
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .*46c(4) 12527 (converted to C-F)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=== *46 1861: Reilly manufacturing and sales: FOOTNOTES CONT BELOW ==
======= *46 1861: Reilly manufacturing and sales: FOOTNOTES CONT ========

. . . . . . . . . .*46c(5) 33457 (photo Holts)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . . *46d 1859: Nuthall’s Patent:

. . . . .*46d(1) Nuthall articles
. . . . . . . . . .11 Jun 1859 "The Field": Reilly building Maj. Nuthall's patent gun:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .10 Sep 1859 Volunteer Services Gazette
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*46d(2) Nuthall rifling advertised by Reilly 1861
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*46d(3) Nuthall gun
. . . . . . . . . .Nuthall gun version made by Turner: THOMAS TURNER, FISHER ST., BIRMINGHAM, CIRCA 1860 - with 31 ½ in. (80 cm.) barrel sighted to 1000 yards, marked 'MAJOR NUTHALL'S PATENT' and with rounded groove rifling (Patent 1167, 10 May 1859), Birmingham proof marks:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*46e .451 Enfield target rifle:
. . . . . . . . . .*46e(1) 1st ad
. . . . . . . . . . . .07 Sep 1861, The Field: Report on the Whitworth – Reilly made his own .451 rifle:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .*46e(2) Results of Reilly’s .451.
. . . . . . . . . . . .30 Mar 1861, Volunteer Services Gazette: Reilly Match Rifle results
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .*46e(1) SN 12073, Reilly Match Rifle.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*46f .451 Enfield experimental rifling:
. . . . . . . . . .14 Sep 1861 Volunteer Services Gazette - Rifling
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

======== *46 1861: Reilly manufacturing and sales: END FOOTNOTES =========
======= *46 1861: Reilly manufacturing and sales: FOOTNOTES CONT ========

. . . . .*46g Capt. Scott's Patent Progressive Twist Rifling and bullet;
. . . . . . . . . .13 Feb 1861, “Sporting Life”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*46h General Ray's Pattern Brigade Rifle with elongated bullet; *30m
. . . . . . . . . .13 Feb 1861, “Sporting Life”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .29 Feb 1861, "Sporting Life"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*46i Cape Guns:
. . . . . . . . . .*46i(1) 20 June 1861, "Sporting Life"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .*46i(2) SN 12207
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .*46i(2) SN 12251
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*46j Purdey Bastin Action (Holts Photo):
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*46k The Field” screw-on action for and Enfield turning it into a breech loader or muzle loader:
. . . . . . . . . .16 May 1861, “The Field”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*46l 1,500 Surplus Enfields auctioned by Reilly:
. . . . . . . . . .24 Mar 1861, “Bell’s Life”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

======= *46 1861: Reilly manufacturing and sales: END FOOTNOTES ========
====== *47 1862: Reilly and the 1862 London exposition: TEXT ======

*47 1862: Reilly and the 1862 London exposition:

In 1862 Reilly showed at the London International exposition.*47a Reilly placed great store in publicity from such fairs for his two workshops and carefully planned his exhibit. Just about every gun maker of consequence in the UK were there with UK gunmakers showing marked improvements in their inventiveness over 1851 but with still a way to go to match French barrel decoration and Liège prices.

For a thorough review of the gun exhibits and the status of UK gun making at the time see the section on guns written by John Rigby in "The Record of the International Exhibition," published in 1862 (Glasgow, W. MacKenzie publishers). (As an interesting sidelight which will be commented on in a future chapter, center-fire inventions attracted attention. Lancaster's and Daw's systems were most commented on; Rigby preferred Lancaster's but the press seemed to prefer Daw. This was prescient).

Reilly had a large exhibit which showed the guns mentioned in ads above, cape guns, breech loading double-bite pinfires, Dougall patent, muzzle-loaders with Brazier locks as an (expensive) option, revolvers, etc.*47b and apparently showed his own improvements in the pinfires.*47c J.D. Dougall won the overall Gold Medal. Reilly won a sort of “honorable mention” medal which had to be disappointing. It may be that the judges were more engineering minded in their approach in this fair and were looking at workable innovations.

As mentioned before, his careful marketing planning was evident; He was lauded for the intelligent young man who attended his exhibit to explain the guns and take orders (in marked contrast to Lang).*47d Per newspaper accounts he also displayed a gold washed 12 bore muzzle-loader shotgun*47e which may still exist (SN 12532).*47f SN 12532 is housed in a case with the Prince of Wales feathers on it; it was bought to be given as a gift, possibly to an Indian Rajah; This may be one of the reasons why Reilly tried to claim to be a gun maker to the Royal Family the following spring.

====== *47 1862: Reilly and the 1862 London exposition: END TEXT ===
===== *47 1862: Reilly and the 1862 London exposition: FOOTNOTES ====

*47 Reilly and the 1862 London exposition

. . . . .*47a 1862 Exposition
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*47b Reilly Exhibit - Note the gauges of the shells illustrated - 12,15,17,24,36.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*47c Reilly Exhibit, improvements to pinfires
. . . . . . . . . .07 May 1862, St, James Chronicle
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*47d Mr. Macnamara, intelligent assistant.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*47e Gold washed Muzzle Loader:
. . . . . . . . . .17 Sep 1862, “Bradshaw Guide”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*47f SN 12532
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=== *47 1862: Reilly and the 1862 London exposition: END FOOTNOTES ==
=== *48 1863: Attempts to Curry Favor with the British Royal Family: TEXT ===

*48 1863: Attempts to Curry Favor with the British Royal Family:

Throughout the 1860's Reilly guns were purchased by various members of the British royal family, usually to give as gifts to foreign dignitaries or persons who had done favors for the family. This included guns bought by Prince Albert Edward (Later King Edward VII).*48a and his younger brother Prince Alfred (later Duke of Saxe Coberg).*48b Reilly tried to obtain, but without success, a Royal Warrant as "Gun Maker to the Royal Family."

For a few months in 1863 Reilly published advertisements associating himself with the Royal Family based apparently on these royal purchases of Reilly guns. He also spent hundreds of pounds on elaborate gas light decorations to his buildings on the wedding of the Prince*48c and on various Royal anniversaries.*48d He apparently was slapped down pretty quickly and after November 1863, such claims never again surfaced.

Note: The Reilly’s were Irish Catholic. E.M. at least appears to have been involved with the church*48e and to have campaigned against religious discrimination against Catholics in UK.*48f Whether this influenced his ability to obtain a “Royal Warrant” in a very Anglican anti-Catholic England at the time or even to win a contract with Arsenal is problematic.

== *48 1863: Attempts to Curry Favor with the British Royal Family: END TEXT ==
== *48 1863: Currying Favor with the British Royal Family: FOOTNOTES ==

*48 1863: Attempts to Curry Favor with the British Royal Family:

. . . . .*48a Prince Albert Edward (Prince of Wales) in 1862, later Edward VII in May 1862 after his tour. He purchased the Reilly gold percussion gun at the London Exposition:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .*48a(2) SN 12532
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*48b Picture of Prince Alfred: Prince Alfred in 1862:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .*48b(2) This article refers to Prince Alfred giving a Reilly in South Africa.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .*48b(3): Prince Alfred gave a gold washed Reilly as a gift in India during his visit in 1870 - much commented on in the April 1870 press:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 April 1870 "Homeward Bound"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*48c March 1863 celebrations for the marriage of the Prince of Wales:
. . . . . . . . . .11 Mar 1863,"London Daily News" (The whole London press was filled up with pages of reports on the illumination of the city in celebration) - Reilly advertised as "Gun-makers to his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .16 Mar 1863, London Daily News:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*48d: November 1863 celebrations for marriage of Princess Ann
. . . . . . . . . .10 November 1863 edition of the "London Evening News" advertising himself as "Gun Maker to the Royal Family":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*48e Reilly donates to the Church
. . . . . . . . . .22 Nov 1844, Morning Chronicle:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*48f EM involved in promoting tolerance for Catholics.
. . . . . . . . . .04 Dec 1847, The Tablet:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

= *48 1863: Currying Favor with the British Royal Family: END FOOTNOTES =
======== *49 1863-1872: Reilly Builds Military Rifles: TEXT ========

*49 1863-1872: Attempts to Win a Military Contract; Reilly Builds Military Rifles:

As mentioned above from at least the 1850's the Reilly's thought about trying to win a lucrative military contract from the British government. Reilly’s possible financial involvement with Prince and his building Prince Patent breech loading rifles, his making Terry Patent breech loading rifle (Chap *31 – p.78), Gen. Jacob’s SxS percussion rifle and various Enfields (Chap *30 – p.78) and Enfield rifling variations (Chap *46 – p.85) have been discussed.

The next five posts somewhat out of choronological order will deal with Reilly building five military Rifles: the Green Brothers Patent Breech Loader, Snider-Enfields, Reilly-Comblain breech loaders, Martini-Henry’s and a M-H variant the Swinburn and Reilly's own 1869 patent for an exploding bullet that he attempted to sell to Arsenal.

Reilly never obtained a major contract (as far as the present day evidence goes). He did build (or in the case of Martini-Henry "assemble"), privately sell and engrave all sorts of British military rifles - Enfields, Snider's, Martini's and later Lee-Speeds; He hawked these guns to the Yoemanry Volunteer Militia and to rifle clubs at wholesale prices, versions of them to Military personnel going abroad and to big-game hunters for 50 years. But, unless he built them himself he did not serial number these guns.

====== *49 1863-1872: Reilly Builds Military Rifles: END TEXT ======
== *50 – 1863-1868: Reilly and the Green Brothers Patent Breech Loader: TEXT ==

*50 – 1863-1868: Reilly and the Green Brothers Patent Breech Loader:

This is not meant to be an exhaustive review of the Green Bros. Patent 2002 Jun 1862 breech loader. But since it is integral to Reilly in the 1860’s it is gone into in some detail. The conclusions are, Reilly built about 350 serial numbered Reilly Green Bros. rifles from 1864-1868 in his London workshops, all proofed in London. After 1868 production was likely transferred to Birmingham where another 3,000 may have been made over the course of a few years (depending on whether the patent use numbers remained consecutive; Reilly's pat use #'s seem more chronologically accurate than most). Reilly also made Green Bros. rifles for the trade. C1870 the patent was made by other trade makers with a decline in quality, the last patent use number found being in the 5000’s.

The Green Brothers, CJ and J. were known in the 1850’s as innovative gun makers in London. For several years they were in partership with Prince (dissolved in 1859). In 1860 they took out a provisional patent on a breech-loading rifle. The idea was pretty ingenious. Attach a second breech loading chamger to the back of an Enfield and use a bolt actuated plunger to push the charge and bullet into the original chamber, then use the ordinary hammer and usual cap. The gun could be converted back into a muzzle loader simply by unscrewing the action and replacing the barrel plug. (This sounds remarkably like the action advertised by “The Field” and displayed at Reilly’s shop in summer 1861).*50a In June 1862 the Green Bros received patent nr. 2002 for the invention.

As mentioned previously Reilly had some sort of relationship with the Greens and Prince, possibly a financial stake since Reilly did not sign the March 1858 open letter in favor of Prince’s rifle. This relationship with the Greens must have continued to develop in some way and in April 1863 Reilly announced in a newspaper advertisement that he had obtained “sole manfacturing rights” to the gun.*50b Reilly’s early involvement in making breech-loaders and in bringing others’ inventions to market might have persuaded the Greens to follow this track.

Reilly started experienting with the action by modifying an old Reilly-made 1853 Enfield, SN 12002 (dated 1861), which still exists and carries patent use #1 (see below). This rifle was .577 caliber and retained the Enfield 39” barrels, weighing in at 9 lbs 2 oz.

Reilly clearly wanted to market the rifle to Arsenal and to other militaries perhaps something which grew out of his experience with the Terry Patent and Prince Patent breech-loaders. In this he was prescient, In early 1864 the Prussians with Austrian allies attacked the Danes over the question of Schleswig. The early performance of the Dreyse needle gun (adopted by the Prussians in 1848 and well known to UK gunmakrs) was impressive and panicked Europe’s armies into a frantic search for a similar gun.

By March 1864, while the Scheswig War was still raging, Reilly had the Green Bros Patent breech-loader ready for testing per newspaper advertisents.*50c He began production in late April, early May 1864, The production guns had 24” steel barrels and weighed in at a handy 7 lbs 4 oz. A series of press artices that spring and summer touted the gun.*50d This happened to be concurrent with the decision by Arsenal to field a request to the UK gun makers to submit an interim breech-loading rifle for testing, to be used by the army until a completely new purpose-built breech-loader could be designed. (The fact that British diplomacy hopelessly bungled the Danish question added force to the recommendations; a combination of Prussia, Austria and France on the continent was more than England could handle).

In the 1865-66 Arsenal trials Reilly’s Green Bros Patent rifle performed well. However, ultimately the Snider action (American) was adopted in 1866. Like the Geen Bros rifle the Snider action could be screwed onto an 1853 Enfield barrel and used with the original stock. It was simpler, cheaper and it could use the new “Boxer” cartridge with an integral primer doing away with the percussion cap.The Green Bros rifle could not be adapted to use the metallic cartridge. Nevertheless Reilly continued to advertise the Green Bros Patent and to make the guns as “sole manufacturer” in London up to at least 1868.

From patent use numbers it appears that Reilly made about 350 Green Bros rifles at his shops in London from May 1864 to Jun 1868. The guns, which were built at both 502 New Oxford Street and 315 Oxford Street, may have been made in “batches.” For instance Reilly SN 13326-13333 match patent use #'s #16 - #23; i.e. they were consecutively numbered rifles. SNs 14763-15047 (1867-68) with pat use #’s 177 - 325 would indicate that Reilly made 147 Green Bros rifles out of 300 guns serial numbered during the period September 1867 - February 1868, nearly 50% of his total production.

All extent Reilly Green Bros. rifles with a Reilly serial number were proofed in London. Following are seven existing Reilly-made Green Bros. Patent breech-loading rifles with Reilly serial numbers proofed in London and made by Reilly:

*12002 (original 1861) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, Enfield, London proof, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #1, Reilly manufacture (originally type 3 Enfield) *50e

13326 (spring 1864) - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, London proof, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #16, Reilly manufacture*50f

13333 (spring 1864)- E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, London proof, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #23, Reilly manufacture*50g

xxxxx (fall 1865?) – E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Single barrel rifle, London proof, breech loader, , hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #109, Reilly manufacture (from a Japanese site) *50h

13884 (summer 1865) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London; .577 single barrel, London proof, breech loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - use #159, Reilly manufacture*50i

14763 (Sept 1867) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Single barrel, London proof, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #177. Reilly manufacture.*50j

15047 (February 1868) - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 Rifle. Single barrel, London proof, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #325. Reilly manufacture.*50k

The last Reilly advertisement as “sole manufacturer” for the Green Bros. Patent was in 1868,*50l although in 1869 Reilly was still specifically mentioning Green Bros Patent guns in his advertisements.*50m (Green was replaced by the Reilly-Comblain in the “sole manufacturer” bragging rights category in his ads). Apparently sometime in 1868 Reilly transferred manufacture of Green Bros. rifles to Birmingham (where all his Reilly-Comblain’s were later made). The last Reilly with a Green Bros. patent use number is #3116, date indeterminate (warning: this number may not represent a chronological progression of the patent use numbers). (The reason the rifle remained relevant into the 1870's might be due to the fact it could be used as a muzzle loader (advertised by Reilly late on); a shooter could use regulation soft cartridges and ball in the gun from either end.)

NSN – E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Single barrel, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #3116. Reilly contract in Birmingham? *50n

There is one known Green Bros rifle with Belgian proofs (no Reilly name)(Royal Armouries).*50o

In addition there are two Green Brothers breech loaders made by other London gun makers which in view of the fact that Reilly was “sole manufacture” of the patent, had to be made by Reilly for the trade. Alternatively in view of the Reilly rifle with pat use #3116 with no serial number, it is possible that Reilly gave-up being “sole manufacturer” in 1868 and subsequent rifles including his own were made in Birmingham:

Xxxxx – Issac Hollis & Sons. .577 cal. Single barrel, proof not mentioined, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #554. Reilly contract in Birmingham?, probably a chronologically accurate pat #.*50p

Xxxxx – Wilkinson, London. .577 cal. Single barrel, Brum proof, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #2858. Reilly contract in Birmingham?*50q

Finally, there is one Green Bros. rifle with no Reilly provenance, made in Birmingham, Pat use #5008, the last pat use # found. The gun is a sad shadow of the guns Reilly had produced with a stock that looks like a fence post and poor fittings and engraving.

Xxxxx – Green Bros Patent Central Fire. .577 cal. Single barrel, Brum proof, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #5008.*50r

Note as usual: Without being able to date the above guns by serial number, none of the analysis would be possible.

= *50 – 1863-1868: Reilly and the Green Brothers Patent Breech Loader: END TEXT =
= *50 – 1863-1868: Reilly - Green Brothers Patent Breech Loader: FOOTNOTES =

*50 Reilly and the Green Brothers Patent Breech Loader:

. . . . .*50a action advertised by “The Field” and displayed at Reilly’s shop in summer 1861.
. . . . . . . . . .16 May 1861, “The Field”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*50b In April 1863 Reilly announced in the UK Press that he now owned manufacturing rights to the Green Bros rifle
. . . . . . . . . .1st ad announcement 23 Apr 1863
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*50c March 1864, while the Scheswig War was still raging, Reilly had the Green Bros Patent breech-loader ready for testing per newspaper advertisents.
. . . . . . . . . .London Daily News, 17 Mar 1864
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .1865 advertisements:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*50d A series of press artices that spring and summer touted the gun.

(1). Volunteer Services Gazette, of 12 March 1864:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

(2). 04 April 1864, London Daily News:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

(3). 28 Jul 1864, Morning Post - a report on the beginning of breech loading trials...and first mention of the Snider, which wound up beating out the Green Bros and Reilly for the contract as UK's interim breech loader:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

= *50 – 1863-1868: the Green Brothers Breech Loader: FOOTNOTE CONT BELOW =
== *50 – 1863-1868: Reilly/Green Brothers Breech Loader: FOOTNOTE CONT ==

. . . . .*50e 12002 (original 1861) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, Enfield, London proof, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #1, Reilly manufacture (originally type 3 Enfield)
https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-9371.html

. . . . .*50f 13326 (May 1864) - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, London proof, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #16, Reilly manufacture
https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-9851.html

. . . . .*50g 13333 (May 1864)- E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, London proof, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #23, Reilly manufacture
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*50h xxxxx (fall 1865?) – E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Single barrel rifle, London proof, breech loader, , hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #109, Reilly manufacture (from a Japanese site)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*50i 13884 (summer 1865) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London; .577 single barrel, London proof, breech loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - use #159, Reilly manufacture
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*50j 14763 (Sept 1867) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Single barrel, London proof, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #177. Reilly manufacture.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*50k 15047 (February 1868) - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 Rifle. Single barrel, London proof, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #325. Reilly manufacture.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*50l The last Reilly advertisement as “sole manufacturer” for the Green Bros. Patent was in 1868,
. . . . . . . . . .01 July 1868, “Hart’s Army List”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*50m although in 1869 Reilly was still specifically mentioning Green Bros Patent guns in his advertisements.
. . . . . . . . . .01 April 1869, “Hart’s Army List”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*50n NSN – E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Single barrel, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #3116. Reilly contract in Birmingham?
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

== *50 – 1863-1868: Reilly - Green Brothers Breech Loader: FOOTNOTE CONT ==
== *50 – 1863-1868: Reilly - Green Brothers Breech Loader: FOOTNOTE CONT ==

. . . . .*50o There is one known Green Bros rifle with Belgian proofs from Liège (no Reilly name)(Royal Armouries).
https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-9719.html

. . . . .*50p Xxxxx – Issac Hollis & Sons. .577 cal. Single barrel, proof not mentioned, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #554. Reilly contract in Birmingham?, probably a chronologically accurate pat #.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*50q Xxxxx – Wilkinson, London. .577 cal. Single barrel, Brum proof, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #2858. Reilly contract in Birmingham?
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*50r Xxxxx – Green Bros Patent Central Fire. .577 cal. Single barrel, Brum proof, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #5008
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

== *50 – 1863-1868: Reilly - Green Brothers Breech Loader: END FOOTNOTES ==
======= *51 Reilly Builds Snider-Enfields TEXT =======

*51 Reilly Builds (Civilian) Snider-Enfields:

Arsenal had been bombarded with proposals to adopt a breech-loading military rifle ever since the adoption of the percussion Enfield rifle in 1853. It was well known that the Prussians were using the Dyese needle gun (since 1848),*5a but a hide-bound bureaucracy was wedded to the percussion gun. It was thought that breech loaders would only lead to inordinate waste of ammunition by the troops. In early 1864, however, the Dyese rifle proved its worth on the battlefield*51b in the Schleswig war between the Prussians/Austrians and the Danes.

In July 1864 the British conducted a series of committee meetings on adopting an interim-measure breech-loader. Trials were held that September and ultimately the Snider action was selected.*51c By Fall 1865 Enfield Arsenal had constructed 10 “model guns” for use by gunmakers in making the actions. The Snider was ready for trials in spring 1866 and was formally adopted in September. The cartridges with integral primer redesigned by Col. Boxer were a key component of the new system.*51d

It had its first combat use in Napier’s expedition from India to Ethiopia (Absyssinia) to rescue some European hostages in 1867-1868 where it performed admirably.*51e (Note: Reilly pin-fire shotguns were carried by some on this expedition to supply meat to the troops.*51f)

Hundreds of thousands of percussion Enfields were converted to the Snider action. Arsenal modified only Enfields made 1859 or later. By late 1868 these had all been modified and new-made Sniders began coming out of Enfield and BSA by 1869; they had steel barrels rather than iron, the first in UK army history. The Snider was supplanted in 1874 when the Martini-Henry was adopted. However, it continued in use for 60 years. Sniders were entered in marksmanship contests up to 1920 in Canada and pre-war in Britain.

Reilly did not advertise specifically making or marketing Sniders until March 1867,*51g although it can be safely assumed that he was selling the guns as soon as, if not before, they were formally adopted. This is evident when he supplied a mixture of breech-loaders including a Snider, a Chassepot needle gun, and other breech-loading rifles for a lecture given to a Militia gathering in December 1866.*51h

Reilly converted a lot of percussion Enfields to Snider actions and advertised his ability to do the work.*51i This includes transforming Enfields built by other makers. This makes it difficult to know what were the actual characteristics of a true Reilly-built "new" Snider as opposed to those Enfields he upgraded to a Snider action. Reilly apparently sometimes stamped his own serial number on the guns he modified since he sort of (re)built them, meaning that some Reilly’s, ostensibly serial numbered after the Snider was adopted, were made before 1866 by other makers and have Birmingham proof marks and other non-Reilly characteristics:

. . . . .SN 16036 (1868) - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 original Hollis-made Enfield converted to a Snider breech-loading rifle, sporterized, by Reilly; The Reilly SN is stamped on the trigger guard tang and on the barrel. However, there is a faint stamp “Isaac Hollis & Co” (or Sons) on the barrel which has been over-stamped with “E.M.R. 16036.”*51j

However, Reilly also made and serial numbered “new” Sniders in and of themselves, a number of which are extant including large bore big-game rifles. These were civilian guns made before Arsenal began turning them out for the military; Reilly was not given a part of Arsenal contact to make military Sniders. Believe Reilly’s first extant specifically built civilian Snider is SN 15021 (early 1868). The last known Snider constructed by Reilly is SN 33419 (1896).

How these Reilly-built Sniders are marked is not clear:
-- Most Reilly rifles have “Snider” stamped on the guns somewhere,*51k sometimes along with other patents (such as Newmarks). Some have the "arrow with GR" stamp which is allegedly "crown property proofed" perhaps meaning the bolt and action were obtained from arsenal. However, literature is not clear on to whom Reilly paid royalties or how much these were. There are no patent use #'s. Presumably this would have been to Arsenal since Jacob Snider had died before receiving a penny of compensation for his invention.
-- Nor is it clear where stamps are to be found or what stamps were required. Reilly Snider barrels have London proofs but there are exceptions as mentioned above. They vary from gun to gun (or they are not included in current day auction advertisements). Note: Government Sniders allegedly were the first UK military gun serial numbered. SN stamps are found on the bolt, barrel, sight, and lever but are often not the same numbers or are simply missing. (These questions will be left for the thousands of Snider action enthusiasts to correct or solve).*51l

Following are a few significant (time-wise) Reilly-Sniders from a historical stand-point:

. . . . . -- SN 10021 (1856) – E.M. Reilly & Co, New Oxford Street, London (*re-labeled "E.M" after conversion) .577 enfield 3 band, converted to Snider c.1866. The first extant Reilly-made 1853 Enfield rifle and paradoxically the earliest Reilly made Enfield converted to a Snider action. The name “E.M. Reilly & Co.“ was likely added when the conversion was completed.*51m

. . . . . -- SN 15021 (early 1868) - the first extant Reilly made specifically as a Snider-Enfield: E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 Snider Enfield Volunteer 3 band rifle. German silver rearsight cover stamped "Snider": No Photo-1997 auction.*51n

. . . . . -– SN 15239 (late summer 1868) - E.M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford St., London. .577. single barrel Snider Enfield. 15239 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street., London. .577. Rifle, Snider-Enfield 2-band; Brum proof.**51o

. . . . . -– SN 16607 (1870) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577. Rifle; Single barrel. Snider Enfleld breech-loader. [/color]*51p

. . . . . -- SN 18514 (early 1874) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 8 bore. Single barrel rifle; Snider Patent & Newmark's Patent*51q

. . . . . -- SN 33419 (1894): E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. .450 BPE SxS rifle. Snider patent action. U-L, hammer gun. Anson forearm Pat use #2829*51r

======= *51 Reilly Builds Snider-Enfields END TEXT =======
======= *51 Reilly Builds Snider-Enfields FOOTNOTES =======

*51–Reilly Builds Snider-Enfields:

. . . . .*51a – Dyese Needle Gun w/Prussian troops:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*51b – Schleswig War:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*51c – Snider action design:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*51d– Boxer cartridge:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*51e – Napier’s expedition from India to Ethiopia - Absyssinia campaign:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*51f – Reilly pin-fire shotguns carried on the Absyssinia campaign:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*51g – 1st Reilly advertisement specifically mentioning Sniders Mar 1867:
. . . . . . . . . .01 Mar 1867, “Hart’s Army List”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*51h – Militia lecture on beech-loading rifles:
. . . . . . . . . .15 Dec 66, “Volunteer Services Gazette”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*51i – Reilly converts percussion Enfield to Sniders:
. . . . . . . . . .01 Jul 1868, “Volunteer Services Gazette”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*51j – 16036 (1868) - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 original Hollis Enfield converted to Snider by Reilly:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

======= *51 Reilly Builds Snider-Enfields FOOTNOTES CONT BELOW =======
======= *51 Reilly Builds Snider-Enfields FOOTNOTES CONT=======

. . . . .*51k -- Snider” name stamped on Reilly guns:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*51l – Location of Government Snider SN’s:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*51m -- SN 10021 (1856) – Earliest Reilly made P53 Enfield and the earliest Reilly Enfield later converted to Snider. The name “E.M. Reilly & Co., “ was likely added when the conversion was completed:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*51n -- SN 1502115021 (early 1868) is the first extant Reilly made specifically as a Snider-Enfield: German silver rearsight cover stamped "Snider": No Photo-1997 auction.

. . . . .*51o – SN 15239 (late summer 1868) - E.M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford St., London. .577. single barrel Snider Enfield.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*51p -- SN 16607 - E.M. Reilly (no address). .577. Rifle; Single barrel. Snider Enfleld.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*51q -- SN 18514 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 8 bore. Single barrel rifle; Snider Patent & Newmark's Patent
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*51r -- SN 33419 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS rifle. Snider patent action. U-L, hammer gun. Anson forearm Pat use #2822. (Arrow with GR = crown property)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

======= *51 Reilly Builds Snider-Enfields END FOOTNOTES =======
Here is EM Reilly SN 34559:

It's a 16 bore boxlock, extractor, 2 1/2" chambers, 26 1/2" Damascus tubes, the rib bearing the mark of WJ Jeffery, 9 Golden Square, Regent St. London.


[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
Merci M. Woodreaux. The Reilly dates to late summer 1896. It was rebarrelled by Jeffery, interestingly in Damascus. It's been added to the list on p. 57. There are now 543 Reillys whose type and caliber are known and another 50 with photos published but whose SN was not, 1.5% of the total he made and a good sample. Very attractive and handy looking little gun.
====== *52 -- 1867-70: Reilly-Comblain Breech Loaders TEXT ======

*52 1868-70: Reilly-Comblain Breech Loaders (No Reilly SN):

Almost immediately after the Snider was formally adopted UK Secretary of War announced a new competition for a purpose-built breech loader. Possibly in response to this competition Reilly, still dreaming of a big military contract, in 1867 obtained sole manufacturing rights to Hubert-Joseph Comblain's breech loader, which had been patented in Belgium. The gun was assigned UK Patent No. 2778 of October 2nd, 1867 (Reilly is not mentioned in the patent). It fired the .577 “Boxer” (Snider) cartridge. The gun was featured in a May 1868 article in “The Engineer.”*52a

Reilly did not submit the rifle for the competition in summer 1867 as required (obviously). Rather, the entire competition was reopened in February 1868 after another wave of breech loaders was submitted and while the committee was working on accuracy issues for the barrels. The Reilly-Comblain, however, was part of the large group rejected in July 1868 when the committee settled on the Henry barrel, rifling and cartridge and selected a final 9 actions to be tested. In February 1869 the committee chose to unite the Martini action with the Henry barrel and rifling system and the "Martini-Henry" was born.*52b

Reilly mounted an extensive newspaper advertisement campaign for the Reilly-Comblain rifle in UK. The first advertisement appeared in Feb 1868 (when the competition for the action was reopened to late-comers) and ads continued almost daily until July 1868.*52c After that the ads were confined to long-range publicity contracts with guide books up until about 1870 when they disappeared entirely.*52d His advertisements spanned a relatively short time period and after the Reilly-Comblain was eliminated from the competition emphasized both "military and sporting uses" for the rifle.

Note: The Comblain in a new less awkward form was featured in newspaper articles and shooting contests throughout the early 1870’s especially in reports on UK Volunteer Services militia; UK and Russia were the two guarantors of Belgian independence. Reilly appears to have abandoned his association with Comblain by that time.)*52e. The Comblain was later adopted by the Belgian and Brazilian armies (though not in the Reilly-Comblain configuration); It was used by Brazil for 30 years. Reilly had nothing to do with these contracts.

Per patent use numbers Reilly apparently built some 6000 Comblain's in UK over 3-4 years 1867-71. 6000 rifles are not an inconsiderable number, more it would seem than the UK civilian market could consume over the 3 years that Reilly was “sole manufacturer.” Who bought these guns and where they went is something of a mystery. Perhaps various militia units adopted them; the units could choose their own weapons. Alternatively Reilly might have changed the patent use numbering system after the first series were built, starting anew at SN 5000… meaning a bit more that 1,100 were actually made, a more manageable sporting use number over 3 years of sales.

There are a number of Reilly-Comblains extant. There is not enough information presented in the advertisements for these guns to be able to discern definitive patterns. However, following are some observations:
. . . . .-- The first existing Reilly-Comblain is use number #14. It has Belgian proofs. (See below for details)
. . . . .-- The last extant Reilly-Comblain is use number #6108 with E.M. Reilly & Co., Sole Manufactures, New Oxford St, London on the action. It has Birmingham proofs. (See below for details).
. . . . .-- None of the Comblain rifles have a Reilly serial number indicating all were manufactured elsewhere.
. . . . .-- Most early Reilly-Comblain have only the London address (not Paruis)-it was a British army trials after all and having a Frenchy address would not have been a plus; however one trial gun has “Paris” stamped on the butt plate.
. . . . .-- Most of the extant guns have Birmingham proofs.
. . . . .-- The early guns have an ornate brass plaque on the lower receiver of the rifle with the patent Use #.
. . . . .-- Later guns have “E.M.Reilly & Co., Sole Manufacturers, New Oxford St., London” just ahead of the breech. The Patent use number is stamped on the breechblock just ahead of the bolt.
. . . . .-- Later guns have a “Patented by” or a “Warrented by” “E.M. Reilly & Co., London, Paris” stamped on the stock or on the breech.

A Few Extant Reilly-Comblain Rifles:

. . . . .Patent use #14. This is the earliest Reilly-Comblain known. It was mentioned in a gun chat site thus information is quite limited. It is stamped on the barrel ahead of the breach “E.M.Reilly & Co., Sole Manufacturers, New Oxford St., London”; on the lock plate “E.M.Reilly & Co. London.” The caliber is .577 .The barrel is 30.5 inches long. The Obelisk can be clearly seen on the breech block;It is the Belgian Inspectors mark for final proof. It is berfit of other numbers other than #14 on its stock.*52f

. . . . .Patent use #25. .577 Snider, 20 1/2" barrel. The top of the action is engraved "H. HOLLAND / 98 NEW BOND ST. / LONDON", the lockplate is engraved simply "H. HOLLAND" and the breechblock is marked "REILLY-COMBLAIN / PATENT NO. / 25". A brass plaque affixed to the bottom of the stock beneath action is beautifully engraved "Reilly / Comblain / Patent / No. 25”.*52g

. . . . .Patent use #32. .577 Reilly-Comblain rifle, serial no. 32. Blued 30in barrel, block and blade fore-sight, ladder rear-sight, the nocksform signed 'E.M. REILLY & Co. RIFLE MANUFACTURERS, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON', block signed 'REILLY-COMBLAIN PATENT No. 32', plain colour-hardened lock signed 'E.M. REILLY & Co. LONDON.”*52h

. . . . .Patent use ???. This rifle is stamped on the barrel ahead of the breach E.M.Reilly & Co Sole Manufacturers New Oxford St., London on the lock plate E.M.Reilly & Co. London. Caliber is .577.*52i

. . . . .Patent use #5048: Reilly Comblain rifle; 30” barrel with Birmingham proofs. "25" (i.e. .577), sabre bayonet lug and typical period Enfield sights; 5-groove rifling like the 1860 or '61 Short Rifles. Chambered for the .577 Snider round. Receiver ring stamped "E.M.REILLY & Co / SOLE MANUFACTURERS / NEW OXFORD STREET / LONDON" . Breechblock stamped "REILLY-COMBLAIN / PATENT No 5048". Butt is marked with a large 3" ink stamp "PATENTED BY E.M. REILLY & Co., LONDON & PARIS".*52j

. . . . .Patent use #5051: E.M. REILLY & CO. LONDON. Reilly-Comblain Patent No. 5051. On Barrel, E.M. REILLY & CO, SOLE MANUFACTURERS, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON. Warranted by E.M. REILLY & Co. London & Paris.*52k

. . . . .Patent use #5298. Fusil d'infanterie, percussion centrale, modele E. M. Reilly ; calibre 14.8 mm ; canon poli blanc, poinconne et signe : "E. M. Reilly & Co., Sole Manufacturers, New Oxford Street London" ; culasse marque : "Reilly Comblain patent nr 5298"; platine avant polie blanc (carbon steel), marque : "E M Reilly & Co., London.”*52l

. . . . .Patent use #5439. E.M REILLY & CO, LONDON;.577 BREECH-LOADING CARBINE, MODEL 'REILLY-COMBLAIN PATENT', serial no. 5439, probably converted from a Pattern 1861 Cavalry Carbine. 18 1/2in. blued barrel, block and blade fore-sight, small elevating ladder rear-sight, the top of nocksform stamped “E.M. REILLY & CO, SOLE MANUFACTURERS, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON”; the top of the breechblock marked “REILLY-COMBLAIN PATENT NO. 5439”, plain flat bar-action lock marked “E.M. REILLY & CO, LONDON,” walnut full-stock, the right hand side of butt stamped in large oval form 'WARRANTED BY E.M. REILLY & CO. LONDON & PARIS', iron furniture including two barrel-bands and jag-ended clearing rod, much finish remaining.*52m

. . . . .Patent use #6109. British Reilly-Comblain breechloading trails rifle. Overall length is approximately 49”. The 29¾” round .577 caliber centerfire barrel. Barrel is marked with the usual London proofs and caliber (25) mark. The breech is marked “E.M. Reilly & Co/ Sole manufactures/ New Oxford St/ London”. Stock is marked in ¼” letters on the right butt in an oval “warranted by/ E.M. Reilly & Co/ London & Paris.” There are also two small inspection stamps to the rear of the trigger guard tang. *52n

====== *52 -- 1867-70: Reilly-Comblain Breech Loaders END TEXT ======
====== *52 -- 1867-70: Reilly-Comblain Breech Loaders FOOTNOTES =====

*52 1867-70: Reilly-Comblain Breech Loaders:

. . . . .*52a “The Engineer” of May 15, 1868 on page 347. https://books.google.com/books?id=2E5HAQ...fle&f=false
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*52b 17 April 1869, “Volunteer Services Gazette” – complete report on the trials for a new breech-loader
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*52c 1st advertsements, 1868-69
1- 12 Feb 1868, “Field” – 1st newspaper ad.
2 -17 Jul 1868, “Field” – last newspaper ad
3- Feb 1870 – London Play Program (“Faust”)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*52d Advertisements 69-70:
Left Bradshaw 1869. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . right Black 1870
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*52e Comblain shooting competition; new Comblain rifle:
. . . . . . . . . .22 Jul 1870, "Daily Telegraph and Courier"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*52f Patent use #14.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/rieley-breach-loader-t2104.html
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*52g PPatent use #25.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*52h Patent use #32.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*52i Patent use #???.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=== *52 -- 1867-70: Reilly-Comblain Breech Loaders FOOTNOTES CONT BELOW ===
=== *52 1867-70: Reilly-Comblain Breech Loaders FOOTNOTES CONT ===

. . . . .*52j Patent use #5048:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*52k Patent use #5051:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*52l Patent use #5298.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*52m Patent use #5439.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*52n Patent use #6109.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

====== *52 -- 1867-70: Reilly-Comblain Breech Loaders END FOOTNOTES =====
===== *53 1871-1890: Reilly Builds Martini-Henry Rifles (NSN) TEXT =====

*53 1871-1890: Reilly builds Martini-Henry Rifles (NSN):

The history of Reilly building Martini-Henry rifles/actions is instructive. This is the legendary gun of the Zulu Wars, Rorke’s Drift,*53a the 2nd campaign in Afghanistan*53b and British imperial wars all over the planet which continued in use to WWI.*53c, *53d

As mentioned in the two previous chapters on the Snider and Comblain, in summer 1864 the UK recognized the need for a breech-loading military rifle. As a stop-gap measure the Snider-Enfield was formally adopted in September 1866. It turned out to be a very good weapon. Almost immediately in October 1866 Arsenal advertised a prize for a purpose built breech-loader. In March 1867, the Committee reported that no less than 104 rifles had been submitted and 9 finalists were recommended.

Trials for the 9 did not begin until late November 1867 and by February 1868, the competition was temporarily abandoned due to repeated failure of the trials rifles and severe accuracy problems. The Committee set about addressing the problem of barrels, rifling and cartridges first; the Committee had become convinced that a hybrid rifle was necessary combining a barrel from one bidder and an action from another. At the same time another 45 new rifles had been submitted to the War Office and the Committee decided to start all over again. (See Reilly-Comblain chapter referencing the start of advertising for the Reilly gun).

By July 1868 the Henry barrel and rifling was adopted and the chosen actions were again whittled down to nine. By 11 February 1869 the Henry barrel mated to the Martini action (a Swiss modified copy of the American Peabody) was announced. Trials began on the gun which lasted until 1871 uncovering various problems which included critical parts failures and uncomfortable recoil from the .451 Henry cartridge. On 13 April 1871 orders were placed at the royal Small Arms factory at Enfield for production. Between 1871 and 1874 the rifle was trialed by various units working kinks out of the design and finally on September 18, 1874 (fully 8 years after the need for the gun was advertised - and one thinks modern military acquisition times are long!) the M-H was authorized for full issue to the British army.

As a coda to this in November 1874, the Henry shallow groove rifling patent from November 1860 was allowed to be extended for another 4 years to November 1878.*53e It subsequently somehow (by a process not yet understood) may have been extended again to November 1888. There was some speculation that the extension was tied to the rifling being adopted by the army. In fact Henry received £5000 (equivalent today to $900,000) in 1872 from the British government for the patent use in the Martini-Henry and no more though he petitioned for a supplement. There are Reilly SxS rifles with Henry Patent marks (without use #'s published) which were serial numbered in the 1880’s.*53f Henry patents in the USA expired 15 November 1874 by court ruling.

Many companies made sporting versions of the M-H including in particular Greener. However, there apparently is not one M-H sporterized rifle with a company serial number made by any gun-maker in UK. It appears that Arsenal would send over an action from Enfield or one of the authorized producers of the M-H, if a company wanted to build a sport M-H. (Welcome additions, corrections to this conclusion).

**Edit: Here is a mystery: Who held the Martini-Henry patents? According to some sources the National Arms and Ammunition Co was formed by Wesley-Richards in 1872 to make Martini-Henrys and Henry granted a license to them. The company manifestly failed to produce what was needed. But in 1875 allegedly it claimed to own the rights to the patents and expected to receive royalties from other companies who had been making the Martini-Henry Rifle. It initially won a court case but the judgement was overturned the following year; it was finally settled in National's favor by the House of Lords. So were companies like Reilly paying National Arms and Ammunition Co., for the right to make a Martini-Henry? Was it just for the barrels and rifling? Who owned the Martini patent for the action for civilian makers? This information is surely available but a bit off topic re Reilly Martini-Henry's- unless a list of payments for the patent use can be turned up.

Reilly’s first advertisement for a “Henry-Martini” appeared in Jun 1871.*53f His first advertisement for “Martini-Henry” rifles appeared in December 1871.*53g

There are many extant Reilly-made sporterized Martini-Henry’s in half a dozen calibers, one being an 8-bore (cal .775) big game gun. Several are pictured.(*53h, *53i, *53j, *53k) He engraved and retailed M-H’s; he may have assembled rifles himself at the 315 Oxford Street manufactuary using actions and barrels sent from elsewhere. Like the other gun makers, however, none of these have Reilly serial numbers. Reilly apparently did not serial number assembled guns.

==== *53 1871-1890: Reilly Builds Martini-Henry Rifles (NSN) END TEXT ====
=== *53 1871-1890: Reilly Builds Martini-Henry Rifles (NSN) FOOTNOTES ===

*53 1871-1890: Reilly Builds Martini-Henry Rifles (NSN)

. . . . .*53a Rorke’s Drift
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*53b 1882:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*53c WWI Lord Kirchner review of home guard WWI (with M-H, Snider, etc.):
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*53d 1st ad – “Henri-Martini”
. . . . . . . . . .1871 "Black's Cornwell Guide".
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*53e 1st ad – “Martini-Henry”
. . . . . . . . . .25 December 1871, "The Graphic":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*53f Reilly Martini-Henry
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*53g E.M. Reilly & Co, New Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris; 52 on the bore means, that it is a .450 Cal. Bore. This fits with 11.6mm bore dia. Proof marks show Black Powder, possibly 3 ¼” cartridge length.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*53h E M Reilly 577/450 Martini. This gun came out of an estate of a gentleman who hunted in South Africa and Rhodesia in the 1960's and 70's. According to the estate manager the gun was purchased while gent was on a hunt to Rhodesia. This is a commercially built 577/450 Martini Henry by E M REILLY & CO, OXFORD ST, LONDON. (Note the ad claims that per “research” it was made between “1860 and 1869” – Auction houses at their best):
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*53iSmall framed .380 martini rook-rifle retailed by E.M. Reilly, 315 oxfordstreet , London.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

== *53 1871-1890: Reilly Builds Martini-Henry Rifles (NSN) END FOOTNOTES ==
===== *54 1872-1912: Swinburn, Gibbs, Lee-Speed TEXT =====

*54 1872-1912 Reilly sells other Military Rifles; Swinburn, Gibbs, Lee-Speed

The Snider-Enfield was apparently the last military rifle Reilly made in his London workshops and serial numbered. He did not serial number the Reilly-Comblain nor the Martini-Henry sporting guns he sold. However, he continued to advertise and market military rifles, selling some to the Volunteer Militia and some to private owners for sport. These were made elsewhere. Here are four:

. . . . .Swinburn-Henry: The Swinburn was similar to the Martini-Henry but differed internally quite a bit. For instance it had a thumb manipulated side lever which could cock the hammer without operating the lever. It fired the same .577/540 Martini-Henry cartridge but was more prone to breakage. It was patented in 1872 and all production was done by by Abingdon Works Co. Ltd., Birmingham. Reilly’s first advertisement for a Swinburn rifle (which he misspelled) is from October 1875.*54a
. . . . . . . . . .-- There is one extant Reilly Swinburn from about 1885 in the Royal Armouries. It is highly engraved with a lion surrounded by fine scrollwork on the right side of the receiver and two stags on the left. It is engraved “E.M. REILLY & Co., 277 OXFORD STREET, LONDON, AMMUNITION GOV 577.450.”*54b

. . . . .George Gibbs “Farquharson Patent”: This is a single-shot hammerless falling-block action rifle. It was patented by John Farquharson in Scotland in 1872. George Gibbs, a Bristol gun-maker, bought into the patent in 1875 and was the sole maker until the patent expired in 1886. Per Wikipedia, fewer that 1,000 Gibbs-Farquharson rifles were made, the last in 1910. Famous hunter Frederick Selous was known to use the rifle.*54c
. . . . . . . . . .-- There is one extant Gibbs-Farquharson .451 cal rifle with Reilly's name on it, signed “E.M. REILLY & CO., 277 OXFORD STREET, LONDON,” with a Gibbs serial number 1331 (Wikipedia can be wrong too).*54d

. . . . .Lee-Speed: The Lee-Speed was a bolt-action magazine rifle, which was basically a sporting variant of the Lee-Enfield made for civilians. It shot the .303 cartridge. The first advertisement for a Reilly marketed Lee-Speed is in 1893.*54e A number of London gun-makers offered Lee-Speeds for sale to sportsmen including Holland & Holland.*54f
. . . . . . . . . .-- There is one extant Reilly marketed Lee-Speed shooting the .375 x 2.5” nitro express cartridge, introduced in 1899 (basically a hunting cartridge, a slightly longer version of the .303 necked out to .375). This Reilly has on the barrel “E.M. REILLY & CO., 295 OXFORD STREET, LONDON” indicating it was marketed between May 1904 and June 1912.*54g

. . . . .The Soper Rifle: The Soper Birmingham-made breech-loader missed out on the breech-loading trials in 1867-68. However, in a separate test in 1872 it fired 60 rounds in one minute, a rate not matched by magazine guns. Soper put up a ÂŁ100 bet ($10,000+) in 1878 that he would match two men firing his gun against three firing any other rifle in the world to see who could get most rounds on a 200 yard target in 3 minutes. No one took him up on it. Per an early 1880 advertisement Reilly was the Soper rifle "agent for London."*54h

=== *54 1872-1912: Swinburn, Gibbs, Lee-Speed END TEXT ===
=== *54 1872-1912: Swinburn, Gibbs, Lee-Speed FOOTNOTES ===

*541872-1912 Reilly sells other Military Rifles; Swinburn, Gibbs, Lee-Speed

. . . . .*54a 1st ad for Swinburn:
. . . . . . . . . .02 Oct 1875, “Illustrated London News”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*54b Reilly Swinburn in Royal armories (no photo)(below example from Holts)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*54c Frederick Selous with a Gibbs-Farquharson:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*54d Reilly marketed Gibbs-Farquharson. Note the “1860” date by the auction house, 12 years before the patent was even taken out and 22 years before the numbering of Oxford street changed to 277:
. . . . . . . . . .“circa 1860, with blued tapering round 34in. barrel, the short-rib at breech signed 'METFORD'S PATENT 1331', the top of barrel signed 'E. M. REILLY & CO., 277 OXFORD STREET, LONDON', large dove-tailed and threaded fore-sight block (no fore-sight included), folding ladder rear-sight, slab sided fully scroll engraved receiver (much faded colour-hardening), the left hand side with central oval panel signed 'GEORGE GIBBS, 29 CORN ST., BRISTOL', the right hand side marked at top front edge 'FARQUHARSON'S PATENT 492'.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*54e - Ad for Lee Speed
. . . . . . . . . .03 Jun 1893, "Volunteer Services Gazette"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*54f H&H Lee-Speed
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*54g Reilly Lee-Speed 1904-12:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

=== *54 1872-1912: Swinburn, Gibbs, Lee-Speed END FOOTNOTES ===
========= *55 1869: Explosive Bullets TEXT =========

*55 1869: Explosive Bullets:

Reilly patented an explosive bullet in 1869, a sort of early M-79 idea.*55a

Note: As already mentioned Sir Samuel Baker wrote in his books that Reilly made custom explosive shells designed by him for his use as early as 1853. In addition Reilly made explosive shells for BG Jacob for his self-designed long-range double rifle used by his Pashtun cavalry in Sind and Baluchistan (1854-57). It may well be that Reilly used this knowledge to create his own explosive bullet. However, Reilly never obtained a major military contract with the War Department (as far as the present day evidence goes).

======= *55 1869: Explosive Bullets END TEXT =======


== *56 1856-1871: An End to Reilly's Arsenal Contract Dreams TEXT ==

*56 1856-1871: An End to Reilly's Arsenal Contract Dreams

As a summary to these chapters on Reilly's military rifles, Reilly never achieved his ambitious plans to make a fortune with a contract with Arsenal. He always seemed to be one step behind; His Green Brothers breech-loader was very good..but could not shoot a cartridge with an internal primer. His Comblain was awkward looking, was late and was not the handsome Comblain of the Belgian militia of 1870, which might have stood a better chance, etc.

He did sell and engrave British military rifles - Enfields, Snider's, Martini's, Swinburns and later Lee-Speeds; He hawked these guns to the Yoemanry Volunteer Militia and to rifle clubs at wholesale prices, versions of them to Military personnel going abroad and to big-game hunters for 50 years. But, unless he built them himself he did not serial number these guns. He sold a lot of militia guns he did not make; but afterwards his business seemed to zero in on the civilian sporting market.

Nevertheless, the desire and the conceit never fully died. From Wyman's Industrial Encyclopedia 1888 on his 1885 exhibition at the London industrial innovations exposition, he still expressed a shadow of hope for some sort of contract or at least a recognition that he was still relevant:
. . . . ."They also showed some fine specimens of repeating rifles, which are now very prominently before our Government for adoption in the Army."*56a

== *56 1856-1871: An End to Reilly's Arsenal Contract Dreams END TEXT ==
=========== difficulties =============

If jpgbox.com has gone under, and it looks like photos posted on this and other historical lines such as the "Dating 20th Century Saint-Etienne shotguns" have disappeared, it is truly a blow. Some of those were meant to be historical references.

I still have the photos, but to find and order them yet again is a daunting task. I only have a couple of weeks left in the solitude of the Sahara and once home cannot devote the time to order this history. So, I'll try to get through the remaining paragraphs of the Reilly history (expanded) and will make note of the footnotes. Once I get a new photo-hosting site, these will be posted at a later date. If anyone has a specific question about one of the footnote numbers, I can send the reference.

There is nothing like print one supposes. There were some beautiful guns to be posted with instructive proof marks and patent use numbers, along with labels and label analysis. Darn it.

=========== difficulties =============
========== *57 1863-65: Reilly’s Sporting Gun Business TEXT ==========

*57 1863-65: Reilly’s Sporting Gun Business

Returning to the early 1860’s and Reilly’s sporting gun business, Reilly was numbering from 400 to 450 guns a year from 1858 to 1868, a pretty consistent number which perhaps reflects the maximum he could produce at the time (still more than Lang, Purdey and Haris Holland combined). Breech loaders shared place of honor with muzzle-loaders expecially during the American War Between the States period.

However, it was a time of dynamic change in the UK sporting gun business. Purdey patented his “double-bite” system (pat. 1104) in 1863 which combined with Scotts 1865 Spindle (Pat 2752) became a standard; Reilly was to make (and pay royalties for) dozens over the next 14 years. Snap-actions were introduced. Retractable firing pins. Westley-Richards began building “dolls head” fasteners, etc.

Reilly was not an innovator; but he kept abreast of all new patents changes; he advertised them, paid the royalties and built the guns. There is one 1865 advertisement which pretty well sums up what the entrepreneur E.M Reilly was all about: Reilly in an ad discussing a rifle construction system advocated by James Forsyth, had this to say:

. . . .“We are prepared to waive all the existing prejudices of “the Trade,”
. . . . .and to make Double and Single Rifles to order, on the principles laid down
. . . . .by Mr. Forsyth, and to have the Rifles carefully and accurately tested,
. . . . .so as to warrant their performance.”
*57a

If a customer wanted it, Reilly would build it.

======== *57 1863-65: Reilly’s Sporting Gun Business END TEXT ========



============= *58 1863-73: Pin-Fire vs Center Fire TEXT =============

*58 1863-73: Pin-Fire vs Center Fire

Center Fire inventions were available early in the history of break-action breech-loaders, Lancaster's patent from the late 1850's being an example. However the pin-fire won out for a variety of reasons.

In 1861 Daw took out his center-fire patent 203, a copy of Pottet’s French patent. And by 1862 in John Rigby’s assessment of London Exposition breech-loaders, the advantages of center-fire system were obvious. (Rigby bet on Lancaster;*58a The British gun-press on Daw.*58b)

By the mid-1860's the advantages of a center-fire system for center-break guns became more and more evident. Eley broke Pottet’s patent for center-fire shells in 1865. This coupled with the 1866 invention of the shotgun center-fire primer shell by Berdan in America and almost simultaneously by Boxer in the UK made center-fire shotguns practical and viable along with certain other inventions such as the Anson fore-end. In the 1867 Paris Exposition Reilly featured center-fire long guns.*58c However, center-fire systems did not apparently supplant pin fires until around 1872. Extant Reilly pin-fires far out number center-fire guns until that time.

. . . . .-- Reilly’s first newspaper advertisements for “Direct-Action Center-Fire” appeared in 1865.*58d
. . . . . . . . . .1865 – ad in “The Life of Lord Palmerston”
. . . . . . . . . .03 Jul 1865, “London Daily News”

. . . . .-- SN 13688 (1865) - The first existing Reilly center-break center-fire long-gun is a 20 bore single-barrel under-lever hammer-gun shotgun (converted from an original rifle) with a Joseph Brazier action dated 1865.*58e

. . . . .-- SN 14115 (1866) - Reilly's first extant center-fire shotgun is SxS 12 bore U-L non-rebounding hammer gun dated 1866.*58f

Note: One other invention from this time helped cement centerfire primacy, the invention of rebounding hammers patented by Stanton in February 1867. Most surviving Reilly guns both pinfire and center-fire from this age were later converted to center-fire with rebounding hammers. One would think this was the type of patent that would be immediately adopted. However, the majority of existing, original condition Reilly's up to the 1870's have non-rebounding actions. In fact there continued to be non-rebounding hammers on extant Reilly built guns up until the 1880's (just as there were Reilly built muzzle loaders). The London gun trade was extremely conservative.

=========== *58 1863-73: Pin-Fire vs Center Fire END TEXT ===========
========= *59 1866: Reilly and Purdey Kirfuffle TEXT ==========

*59 1866: Reilly and Purdey Kirfuffle

To illustrate the state of Reilly fortunes and confidence at the time, in 1866 there was a widely reported dust-up between Reilly and Purdey. A salesman at Reilly reportedly told a client that essentially Reilly guns were the same as Purdey's but without the extra-charge for a name, implying Reilly made them for Purdey. Purdey was indignant and fired off an emotionally charged letter demanding retraction.

Reilly not only rejected the charge but in an infamous poem, quoted several times the phrase "exactly the same"...thumbing his nose at the gun aristocracy.

A place-beyond all we in London know
To Messrs. E.M. Reilly & Co.
What other houses charge sixty-five pounds
For, and keep you four or five months (which astounds),
In waiting for; one exactly the same
For which only ÂŁ45 they claim
Having it ready too in thirty days
Or less, for which they merit highest praise
Exactly the same I've already said
The Gun shall be, by my Art-Heroes made,
But only here to give what's rightly due
You may be able thus to strike more true;. . . .

*59a

(This is not a way to win friends, obviously)

So, the question remains. Did Reilly make guns in the white for Purdey? Purdey didn’t exactly deny it. He just begged the question and deflected.

======= *59 1866: Reilly and Purdey Kirfuffle END TEXT ========
I am unaware of any proof that a gun was made in the white by Reilly anD finished by Purdey. The only Purdey guns I can think of that were finished as opposed to built in house were some of their box locks, rifles, etc.

While a nice story, I doubt Reilly made sidelocks for Purdey or if their hammer guns were of equal quality.

And yes I own a very nice Reilly BLNE.
Well, we can read about and actually put names to faces of people who actually worked at Purdey. Purdey actually has a real, not make believe factory, with actual machines, boring equipment, skilled gunmakers (that can be named by the way), laborers, and even apprentices, with all kinds of historical records documenting who worked there in the past and what part they played in building an actual gun. Completely opposite of what you claim happened at Reilly.
Maybe, just maybe, the folks at Purdey were pissed that their name was even mentioned in the same breath as Reilly because everyone in London knew what the Reilly operation was all about……a professional rebranding organization that claimed they made things that they never did, you know….just like Walmarts great value brand. Walmart doesn’t make the things they put their name on either.
Exactly like EM Reilly!đź‚. What a bunch of fugazis the Reilly folks were, masquerading as gunmakers. I think you’ve done more damage to the Reilly brand than you’ve helped it. Everyone is so sick of hearing about your speculation on Reilly this Reilly that, most people probably look at a Reilly now and suddenly get the urge to throw it in a wood chipper and be done with it.
I suppose the next big, breaking, Reilly news story will be how they actually made guns for W&C Scott. Reilly did have 300 gunmakers employed so they would’ve been fully capable of doing this right?? Reilly just shipped all those fully stocked, barreled actions in the white up to Birmingham so Scotts could finish them and call em their own. You’re a regular Sherlock Holmes!

Gene, I think you’ve finally lost it!!!!đź‚
Hope you have a nice Easter.
I believe Reilly made guns, though not necessarily every gun they stamped with their name. Great makers sold guns brought in the white and finished in house. Holland, Purdey, even Boss as BLE by John Robertson did.

I understand this thread is as close to interminable as a thread can get, however I accept and respect the passion for Reilly Argo has as I accept that which we all share here for doubleguns. Long before I got a Boss or Purdey I got a very nice Reilly that I still like and use as my Rainy Day gun

I also think Argo is just stirring things up with the Purdey remark. I bite on it, because I can’t see Purdey buying guns from them at that point.
Mes Amis...I am happy that finally someone has responded to this history. It is the product of years of painstaking research. The previous chapters asked for comments. None were forthcoming. Now re the above comments:

--There is not one photo of the Purdey Hqs at 314 1/2 Oxford Street in existence (1826-1881). The closest is the photo analysis of Oxford Street that I sent to Purdey. If you have one, Purdey will pay you for it.

-- There is not one commentary I have been able to find about or from Purdey technicians/workers from this time Frame 1860's. If you all have something, please post it. It will be a revelation.

-- There are no records of patent payments to Purdey for patent 1104 or others. Actually there may be but they are literally locked up and cannot be accessed.

-- This part of the history is what is available from that century, not late 20th century mythology. The speculation was mine but the taunting by Reilly was real. (and those Purdey Bastin actions beg the question)...i.e. did Purdey really in the 1860's make every piece of every gun in-house? Reilly claimed to do so in print.

Now you guys please start posting your objections to this history. Insults are not intellect. Please back up your rebuttals by 19th century research, not 20th century conjecture.

This history was written 4 years ago and published in very attenuated form 3 years ago. I was challenged on the sources. It is being reposted chapter by chapter with the footnotes (which with the demise of jbpbox.com have largely disappeared).

So have your say on each chapter before it goes to print. I pay attention to you all when it's something more than just denigration. (Reilly went through all that when he first made breech loaders and tried to get a UK royal warrant). That's what peer-review and this board is all about.

But you need to back up your counter-claims with research as I've done mine. And Mike, I'm writing a book. It will terminate at some point in print. this board is what inspired it.
Touché Argo.

I mean no disrespect, and find your method to prove Reilly a gunmaker, which I believe they were, inventive. I interpret it to be prove Purdey was a gunmaker at all times in its history; with the lack of detailed picture evidence proving your void.

Unfortunately the amount of company documents from Purdey exist where Reilly’s like many other makers are lost to us.

The incident between Reilly and Purdey is described on page 67 of Donald Dallas Purdey book with the Purdey point of view. Unfortunately we do not have detailed Reilly point of view. This is of course the long challenge with Reilly, because the company long ago went out of business and unlike Purdey the records are incomplete.

I believe Reilly was an actual gunmaker, no argument, that said like other makers, I.e. Holland, he seems to have brought from the trade. With the exception of a few odd guns, mostly BLE’s and a round action, I do not believe it is worth the bother to defend Purdey as a maker as you have Reilly.

Better documentation for Purdey, I wish the detailed ledgers were still present for Reilly as I believe you would have an easier time getting your position accepted.


Having recently purchased a pair of Trulock and Harris guns for which all records have been lost I know the pain of dead ends, not to mention my lack of data on my Reilly BLNE.

I like my Reilly BLNE. I like your love of Reilly guns

I look forward to your book and will buy it.
II want to believe the Reilly story Argo presents. I have a nice Reilly which was my first good English double. However, my position is that Reilly was a merchant, not a maker. I can't prove my position but I do not believe Argo has proven his either. I'll buy his book though...Geo
Thanks for your comments. They are needed because breaking a long-held stereotype/opinion is difficult. Before moving on with the history, here are a few rhetorical questions I asked of mc several pages ago which might help to start moving the needle.

-- Reilly built pin-fires. Are you all ok with that statement? p.76-77
. . . . .-- Was Reilly one of the first to build pin-fires in UK along with Lang and Blanche?
. . . . .-- Was there anybody else in all of UK who could have built those four early Reilly pin-fires? If so, who?

-- Do you accept the Reilly serial number dating chart? (To discuss the above pinfires you have to date them first)

-- Do you think he exhibited at 1851 Crystal Palace and 1855 Paris Universelle World's Fairs? If so, was he showing others' work and claiming it was his?

-- Do you believe he provided 4 center-break pinfire guns to "The Field" for the two trials in 1858 and 1859?
. . . . .-- If so do you think "The Field" would have let him submit other gunmakers' guns for the trials?
. . . . .-- Do you think the other gunmakers at the test would have allowed this?
. . . . .-- If you believe he submitted others' guns for the test, whose were they?

Gene Williams
Nouakchott
-- Do you believe he provided 4 center-break pinfire guns to "The Field" for the two trials in 1858 and 1859?
. . . . .-- If so do you think "The Field" would have let him submit other gunmakers' guns for the trials?
. . . . .-- Do you think the other gunmakers at the test would have allowed this?
. . . . .-- If you believe he submitted others' guns for the test, whose were they?

Gene Williams
Nouakchott[/quote]

Gene,

I hope that it is uncontroversial and accepted that although Holland and Holland always styled themselves “Gunmakers” that almost everything they , and H. Holland before them, sold before they opened their factory in the 1890’s was made for them in the trade. The shotguns mostly by W.C. Scott.

Purdey was a gunmaker from the get go, but no doubt bought in barrels, locks and furniture from specialist out workers.

Reilly, by having his name put on a gun, was effectively standing by its quality.

No one would have objected, because whether or not he had any part in the making of the gun he was doing much the same as everyone else in the trade.

The answer to your first 3 questions is “Yes”.

In the sad absence of Reilly’s records we shall never know the answer to your last question unless an individual gun, when stripped down, reveals an action maker’s mark and even then was it bought in as a complete gun or a parts set?

Easter Greetings,

Parabola
Here’s a few questions you should be asking…….let’s talk about the 1870’s through the early 1900’s.

1. Did Reilly build boxlocks? No.
2. Did Reilly build sidelock breach loading shotguns? No.
3. Did Reilly have a “factory”, not a building, but an actual factory that employed 300 gunmakers? No.
4. Did Reilly have an identifiable “house style”? No.
5. Did Reilly have any important patents to his name besides the exploding bullet of the 1860’s? NO.
6. Can anyone name anyone that actually was noted to build guns at Reilly? No.
7. Did Reilly make Greener FP actions in house? No.
8. Did Reilly make SMLE rifles in house? No.
9. Did Reilly make Scott patent Crystal indicator guns in house? No.
10. Did Reilly make modern double rifles in house? No.
11. Does anyone recall anybody that worked at Reilly’s and then went out and hung their own shingle to build guns? No.
12. Did Reilly contribute anything of note to the gunmaking world during these years? No.
13. Why are there absolutely zero pictures of the Reilly factory floor showing his 300 gunmakers busily turning out beautiful boxlocks, sidelocks, hammer guns, etc?
14. Why is there absolutely zero recollection from anyone else active in the trade during those years as to knowing anyone who actually built guns for Reilly? No names of Stockers, actioners, barrel makers, finishers, etc?


And the questions like this go on and on and on…….

I’ll concede that the EM Reilly store was probably a fantastic place to go shopping and do some browsing. Probably chocked full of all kinds of sporting wonders, anything and everything a gentleman sporting man would ever want all under one roof. I wish there were at least some pictures of the inside of the store. I’d be interested just to see how it was laid out.

I wonder how Genes friends at the Internet Gun Club feel about all of this? Seemed he got peer reviewed over there and it didn’t go very well. I wonder how come.
I am going to move on; I started this line to date Reilly guns. I found a very odd and confusing narrative about Reilly history that had been created apparently in the mid-late 20th century. Using only 19th century sources I compiled the data and wrote the history. There is not one reference I can find in 19th and early 20th century publications and journals calling Reilly a "retailer."

To reply to Dustin re-IGC. I put an early version of the Reilly history on the site. A moderator named John accused me of plagiarizing their Reilly history (which incidentally notes that Reilly made guns) and of violating their copyright, The allegation was scurrilous. When I finally read their history it was not bad for pre-internet, but there were errors and it was not footnoted. My research had been posted here for all to see. I told "John" to "sue me."

So Dustin it was not the substance that "John" objected to (and I do know his full name). But slander is not something to be abided and for that reason I won't post there. You can ask other UK members here why they quit IGC.

That's the story Dustin so please don't make things up. And I put a post on this line about it two years ago when it happened (see p.49). The thing that is really galling about this, though, is that the IGC wrote their history in 2002. For 20 years they've known Reilly built guns and said nothing about it as disinformation became set in stone. Now Dustin, you need to go on IGC and correct their false belief that Reilly made guns.

And, I have no desire to change your long held opinion that Reilly was "merely a retailer." Someone must have told you that early on and I don't think you've done any research at all to confirm whether what you were told was true. But there are gun scholars, who have changed their mind, Donald Dallas being one of them, Cyril Adams before he died being another. I'll take their opinion over yours. sorry.

One last note for Dustin. I have posted pictures of Purdey's "factory" at 314 1/2 Oxford Street, and Lang at 22 Cockspur Street (where the first pin-fires were made). They don't look like traditional "factories."

And for all of you who took on board the rhetorical 1850's questions about Reilly and pin-fires, no-one has addressed the main point. Who in UK could have built Reilly's four pin-fires for the trials in 1858, if Reilly didn't do it? The infrastructure didn't exist... Oh yes...and if he could build a center-break pin-fire SxS in 1858 at the dawn of UK break-action history, why couldn't he build a side-lock SxS in 1880?
The Paris episode was split into 4 parts to make posting footnote pictures easier. I won't be doing posting photographs for the moment - it's a shame - there is important history in them; but have left the chapters divided per below so when I feel like tackling this again, it will be easier.

====== *60 1867-1870, Paris-1: Reilly Takes on Paris, Again TEXT ======

*60 1867-1870, Paris-1: Reilly Takes on Paris, Again; Gun-Maker for Napoleon III

EM Reilly always seemed to be enamored with Paris and as the 1867 Paris Universelle exposition*60a approached, he meticulously prepared an exhibit*60b that was extensively lauded.*60c It won him gold and silver medals.*60d

Note: Apparently the entire exhibit of Reilly guns at the Paris Universelle was bought by Grand Duke Constantine (son of Czar Nikolas I) and Count Nikolay Alexandrovich Orloff, who was then the Russian ambassador to Belgium, at the time the cockpit flash-point of Europe. (Russia and UK guaranteed Belgian independence).*60e

As a result of the medals E.M. Reilly became a "gun maker" for Napoleon III.*60f, *60g


==== *60 1867-1870, Paris-1: Reilly Takes on Paris, Again END TEXT ===
=== *61 February 1868-1870, Paris-2: Reilly opens 2 rue Scribe TEXT ===

*61 February 1868-1870, Paris-2: Reilly opens 2 rue Scribe, Paris as “E.M. Reilly & Cie”

Reilly’s triumph in Paris led him in February 1868 to open a branch office (EM Reilly & Cie.) at 2 rue Scribe, Paris where orders for his guns could be taken.*61a The store was located in the Grand Hotel near the Gare du Nord, a prime location (British travelers to Paris arrived at the Gare du Nord).*61b, *61c, *61d This branch office remained open for the next 17 years.

. . . . .-- SN 14983 - The first extant gun with 2 rue Scribe on the rib is 14983, an 8 bore SxS under-lever, hammer gun shotgun (with a firing system very much resembling the earlier Lancaster "base-fire" action - other observers note that it was very like the Pape patent with retractable firing pins).*61e

The extant gun’s hammers resemble the hammers pictured in Reilly ads at the time.*61f

. . . . .-- SN 15287 - A second center fire 12 gauge shotgun hammer gun from this period with similar hammers.*61g

Note: The French press in articles about Reilly in the 20th century has claimed that the artistic elegance and balance of a Reilly gun came from its association with Paris.*61h


== *61 February 1868-1870, Paris-2: Reilly opens 2 rue Scribe END TEXT ==
============ *62 1868-1897 – Paris-3: New Label TEXT ===============

*62 1868-1897 – Paris-3: New Label

His case labels changed at this time to feature the two medals won at the 1867 World's Fair and often (but not always) mentioned both branch addresses.*62a, *62b

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

His presentation cases appeared to be red velvet with the 502 and 2 rue Scribe addresses on them, sometimes with no "promotion clause", sometimes with "Gun Manufacturers" below the name:
. . . . . . . . . ._____________________. . . . . . . . . ._____________________
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |. . . .Reilly Label. . . . .|. . . . . . . . . |. . . .Reilly Label. . . . .|
. . . . . . . . . |. . . Presentation . . . . |. . . . . . . . . |. . . Presentation . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |____________________|. . . . . . . . . |____________________|

========== *62 1868-1897 – Paris-3: New Label END TEXT ===========
==== *63 1870, Paris-4: Fall of Napoleon III; Reilly Prosecuted TEXT ====

*63 1870, Paris-4: Fall of Napoleon III; Reilly Prosecuted; Pro-French proclivities:

Two and a half years later the Franco-Prussian War broke out. After the battle of Sedan September 3, 1870 Napoleon III fell from power*63a - the Third French Republic was declared; the medals (with Napoleon III's profile on them disappeared from Reilly's case labels for awhile yet continued occasionally to resurface on both labels and in advertisements for the next 15 years.

Note: Napoleon III died in exile in England in 1873. His widow Empress Eugenia*63b bought a Reilly 12 bore SxS shotgun, while in England SN 17532 (dated per the chart to mid 1872), and a second Really 16 bore (SN unknown) both of which are now in the USA somewhere. Her son was killed in the Zulu Wars in 1879. She died in 1920 having been awarded the Order of the British Empire.

Reilly's affinity for France was well known and commented on in London newspapers at the time. (Was this possibly an Irish-French Catholic connection?)

-- A French woman was found in his house in the 1861 census;*63c

-- In Fall 1870 he was prosecuted for attempting to smuggle 2,000 shells to his rue Scribe address, a violation of UK neutrality in the conflict; The London press commented to the effect that this Reilly-Francophile affinity was inevitable (i.e. Reilly "couldn't help himself."). Reilly maintained that the French Republic had invaded his store and confiscated all the guns; he dared not resist their insistence on ammunition. (The cartridges in question were for Snider .577 sporting rifles in Reilly’s inventory in Paris. What happened to his shotguns is unknown).*63d, *63e, *63f

-- and in 1871 Reilly offered to sell 6,000 Chassepot rifles (stored in Birmingham) to the new French Republic. (Obviously the rifles were to be sent to France via some sort of back-channel; the French parliament - really a sort of 3rd Republic "Revolutionary Committee," hesitated over a few centimes of commission - the opportunity was lost).*63g

-- There are Reilly trade labels from the period where the owner of the gun has taken pains to erase the Paris address - Francophobia was alive and well in UK.*60h

-- And with this long-time connection, one must assume that early on, after the 1851 exposition, EM was in contact with French center-break breech-loader makers and must have been experimenting. He had contacts in Liège (as did Trantor or perhaps through Trantor) possibly as early as the 1850's.

-- Whether he spoke French is unknown. Howeveer, there are mid-1860’s Reilly advertisements which mention, “Ici on Parle Francais” (French spoken here).*63i


=== *63 1870, Paris-4: Fall of Napoleon III; Reilly Prosecuted; END TEXT ===
Wake me when we get to the chapter on Kelly Reilly. Or how about John C. Reilly? Hell, I'd settle for something about Charles Nelson Reilly by now.
Thanks BS...that is pretty thin commentary..

This is being re-posted chapter by chapter with footnotes because of certain "cherry-picking" comments made about the history by Dustin. It is pure classic history distilled directly from primary sources and documented every step of the way. Just don't read it if you don't like it... until you can buy it in print form later.
Originally Posted by Argo44
Thanks BS...pretty thin commentary. This is being re-posted chapter by chapter with footnotes because of certain "cherry-picking" comments made about the history by Dustin. It is pure classic history distilled directly from primary sources. Just don't read it if you don't like it... until you can buy it in print form later.
"Lighten up Frances." You take yourself way too seriously. Since you cut-and paste anything with the name "Reilly" I figured we'd get to Kelly eventually. I notice you don't address Dustin's or others' criticisms (used in the academic sense) directly. Just more circular reasoning to consult your "history." Atlantis, Shangri-La, Reilly's massive London factory selling guns to Purdey. Self-publishing this behemoth? Carry on, Sport.
Nice response BS. It added a lot to double-gun history. Stay tuned mon cher.

(You need to get over to the IGC along with Dustin to protest their 2002 history which said Reilly made guns).
I saw the IGC post, along with you being accused of plagiarism, playing coy with dates, etc., etc. It sounded like you were all set to cross the pond and duel the poor chap to defend your honor. The gentleman countered all your points you moved on to less critical pastures. Tempest in a teapot, as they say. Sorry, but I will skip the book. However, I will watch the mini-series, especially if you can cast both Kelly and John C. Reilly in leading roles. Brilliant!
Thanks for your contribution Dustin. "John" on IGC was no gentleman and his behavior was inappropriate. By the way, getting precise dates for address changes may seem pedantic...unless you're trying to date a series of guns. Try it sometime. It's harder than you think.
============ *64 1869-76: Reilly and the American Market TEXT ============

*64 1869-76: Reilly and the American Market

From as early as 1868 Reilly evinced an interest in penetrating the American market.*64a He acquired an American agent (Joseph Grubbs, Philadelphia),*64b and had his guns advertised in mail order catalogs.*64c At the 1876 Philadelphia centennial*64d he exhibited along side very high-standard British guns*64e, and won a medal which was later displayed on his post 1897 case labels.*64f

========== *64 1869-76: Reilly and the American Market END TEXT ==========
Note: It's a shame that I can't post the pictures of these labels and analysis. It's good history and instructive. Will try to do it in another life.
======== *65 1868-76: New Labels and Descriptions TEXT =========

*65 1868-76: New Labels and Descriptions

. . . . .1869: New Description - Gun and Rifle Manufacturers: Around 1869 EM changed the description of the company in print journal ads to "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" (as did many other English gun makers).*65a This description was occasionally but not usually used on some trade/case labels for the next 15 years.*65b

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . .There are two extant guns with this phrase on the ribs or barrels:
. . . . . . . . . .-- SN 25572, a .450 BPE SxS U-L hammer gun rifle dated 1883 with “To their Majesties Kings of Spain and Portugal.”*65c
. . . . . . . . . .-- SN 26537, a .450 BPE SxS U-L hammer gun rifle (later rebored as a 20 gauge shotgun) dated 1884.*65d

. . . . .The phrase also appeared on some of his post February 1868 (opening of rue Scribe) long-gun presentation cases.*65e

. . . . .1868: New label for handguns: Shortly after the 1867 Paris exposition for a short time he used a different label for revolvers with only the 315 Oxford Street address, without the scollops or the medals, advertising “Breech Loading Gun and Rifle Manufacturers," which included the phrase, "By appointment to his majesty emperor Napoleon III.*65f. The label was only used for a few years.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . .1876: New outlier Label for 502 New Oxford St: In 1876 an outlier Reilly trade label for 502 New Oxford Street began advertising a connection to the King of Portugal*65g echoed by advertisements in the print press.*65h (Only two examples of this case label have so far been found).

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . .1876: New Label for 315 Oxford Street: Also around 1876 315 Oxford Street got its own label back; it was slightly different from the classic 502 label, without scollops and with no scroll work at the bottom.*65i

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

====== *65 1868-76: New Labels and Descriptions END TEXT =======
Hey, don’t be mad at me Gene, I’m not the one that chased you off the IGC with pitch forks and torches like you were Shrek. All anyone has to do is read the exchange between the two of you to see who the nutty one was.
Like Bluestem said….the guy at IGC went line for line with you and gave back exactly what you tried giving him. You didn’t like that very much, exactly how you don’t like it when folks do that to you on this board. You like to give it, but don’t like any pushback. Face it….You got handled on IGC, Gene.
So please, don’t accuse me of making anything up. It’s all right there, plain as day. You won’t post there because you know you’ll get critiqued and critiqued hard and that bothers you to no end. Knowing that people don’t go along with your wild and completely unfounded presumptions really irks you. Heck, it really bothers you when you post 10 new pages of crap and nobody acknowledges it….Keeps you up at nights even. Sometimes I bet you’re up at all hours of the night and even in the wee morning hours just stewing and going nuts trying to figure out why nobody seems to care. That’s sad.

Regarding your pics of Purdeys factory: it might not look like a factory, but we all damn well know they built guns in that factory!!! Unlike Reilly.

Reilly built guns: Ok. He built guns in the early 1800’s and some pin fires. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn’t. Big deal. Prove without a doubt they built modern guns (1870’s-1900’s). You can’t. Because they didn’t. So don’t ever show us a W&C Scott crystal indicator gun and presume to tell us the Reilly built it in house. Don’t ever show us a Greener FP actioned gun and tell us Reilly built that. Basically, don’t show us any guns that aren’t pinfires and tell us Reilly built them, deal?
Don’t show us a boxlock gun because Reilly never built those either. Don’t show us a Enfield SMLE and tell us Reilly built that because they didn’t. Don’t tell us that Reilly employed 300+ gunmakers because that didn’t happen either.
Please tell us the names of some of Reilly’s gun making team in golden era of English gunmaking? Not a store manager, but an actual gunmaker. Can’t do it because they didn’t exist.
Don’t show us another stupid case label and tell us Reilly made guns and call that your definitive evidence.

Donald Dallas & Cyril Adam’s…..how in the world could they piece together all of this jumbled up minutiae and come to that conclusion? How could anyone!!??? I believe they just told you what you wanted to hear to shut you up and quit bothering them.

Just put the book in print already and it’ll get critiqued. You better not read any of the critiques because if this keeps you up at night, imagine how you’re going to be when you don’t have a forum to attack the negative critics and the naysayers. That just might push you over the edge.

Good luck with the book, Gene. Looks like there’s already some people eagerly waiting to buy it. That’s great.
Dustin, I don't know where all that anger and hate comes from. It is sad. Early on I paid attention to you...I went looking for test ranges, etc. and I treated you with a lot more respect than I received back. Now you've just descended into vituperation and personal attacks. You read nothing, absorb nothing, learn nothing, impart nothing. You make no intellectual points, no analysis or understandable counter-arguments and you just plain make things up.

Here's a suggestion. I don't think you can or will contribute anything on this line. So why don't you just stop reading it. It'll make you feel better.

Gene.

If you want to read the original history which had no footnotes and was not nearly as detailed as this and more easily understandable go to p.54.

I am going to finish this chapter by chapter, about 30 more posts and some will be controversial. Then we can call it quits. There is a reason. You provoked this. But, It made me review everything I collected, correct some things, add others, edit the prose and some of the chapters were meant to be historical references (such as the Reilly-Comblains) in case someone was researching the topic. And it will be seen through.
======= *66 1875-80: Choke Boring and New Proof Marks TEXT ========

*66 1875-80: Choke Boring and New Proof Marks

In Jan 1875 WW Greener had perfected his choke boring method which became the standard of the industry. It was immediately controversial with some traditionalists maintaining it did nothing but make shooting more difficult. However, tests run by “the Field” in March 1875 showed its advantages. London and Birmingham proof marks were immediately changed with “Not For Ball” being added to choke bored shotguns. Of course, if a gun had no choke the stamp was not used and most UK shotguns sold up to 1880 were cylinder bore.

The interesting fact about Greener's choke boring system is that unlike some inventions, just about every gun-maker in London jumped on it. By late spring all sorts of high-quality makers were advertising the system. (This almost instanteous adoption of Greener's choke boring is an interesting phenomena from the formerly extremely change-resistant UK gun community. By 1875 excitement over new innovations was apparently driving the market; and much like Reilly did in the late 1850's others now jumped whole-heartedly onto the band-wagon of new ideas, to sell new guns and make the old ones feel out-dated; shades of modern marketing).

. . . . .Reilly's first advertisement for a choke-bored shotgun is from 08 May 1875, "The field"*66a.

. . . . .SN 20681 (1877) - 12 bore SxS side-lever hammer-gun shotgun: 1st extant Reilly shotgun with a confirmed “Not For Ball" proof stamp.*66b

===== *66 1875-80: Choke Boring and New Proof Marks END TEXT ======
===== *67 1875-80: Reilly paying royalties for Patent uses: TEXT =====

*67 1875-80: Reilly paying royalties for Patent uses:

This esoteric chapter is placed here for academic reasons because it potentially could be a very important tool in understanding Reilly (and other London gunmakers). From the early 60’s to the end of the company in 1912 Reilly used others’ patents on his guns and paid patent royalties to these companies (as did virtually every gun-maker in London). Reilly apparently thought it cheaper and faster to build his own versions of the patents than wait an intermiable period for an action or forend or an injector to be delivered.

However, the question remains (never to be adequately answered because of the chaotic nature of patent use numbers), “if a gun has a patent use number stamped on it, was it built by the payer of the royalties, or by the owner of the patent, who built it in the white and sent it to the royalty payer?” It would seem to be the former but it could be both. The problem of trying to investigate patent use numbers also lies with individual users and auction houses. With the exception of Toby Barclay no one seems to pay attention to these important markers.

This chapter will not go deep into this rabbit hole, but is meant to be an example of what one might find in investigating it further because Reilly is recorded historically as paying patent royalties to various companies.

The most common patents found on existing post 1860 Reilly guns (with patent use numbers- i.e. royalties paid to the patent owners) are as follows:

1860, May - J.D. Dougall “Lockfast” action patent. Per published information Reilly made a gun in 1861 with documented royalty payents paid to Dougall. *67a

1860, 15 Nov - Henry patent 2802 - 7 groove shallow rifling. The patent was extended in December 1874 for four years and then by a process not understood for another 10 years to 1888. Reilly built dozens of Henry barreled rifles and paid the royalties (as did virtually every gun-maker in London). Henry records exist but do not record royalty payments. The first extent Reilly Henry-barreled rifle is SN 17626 (1872) and last gun being SN 27405 (1885).

. . . . .SN 17626 (1872) - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .450 SxS Rifle. BPE. C-F, U-L, hammer gun. 28” Henry Pat #408, 409.*67b

. . . . .SN 27405 (1885) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577/500 SxS BPE Rifle. U-L, hammer gun. 8 lbs, 11 oz. Henry rifling A&T.*67c

1863, 01 May - J. Purdey patent no. 1104 - “double bite” under action bolt. Found on Reilly guns up to the expiration of the patent in 1877. The Purdey patent 1104 combined with the Scott spindle became one of the standards of the industry. It expired on 01 May 1877. Nine extant Reilly guns have 1104 patent use numbers. Presumably Reilly paid Purdey directly though how much is unknown. Patent use numbers were usually not chonological and were sometimes sold in batches. Purdey was queried about records for patent use payments; unfortunately these are locked away and cannot be accessed; they would have a story to tell. The first extant Reilly with a 1104 patent use # is SN 17393 (1872) and the last SN 20623 (April 1877)

. . . . .SN 17393 (1872) - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and 2 Rue Scribe, Paris; 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Push-forward U-L, hammer gun. Purdey Pat 1104, use #948 (dated 1872)*67d

. . . . .SN 20623 (Apr 1877) - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, rebounding hammer gun. (Purdey patent 1104 use #4928 (April 1877)*67e

1875, 11 May - Anson & Deeley patent 1152 and/or 1756 - Boxlock hammerless action. See separate post below. 25% of extant Reilly's made after 1880 are boxlocks. The first extant A&D Reilly boxlock is SN 22482, use # 1156:

. . . . .SN 22482 (early 1880) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned), 12 bore SxS Shotgun. BLE. A&D use # 1156. *67f

1876. Scott patent 761 from 1878, the "Triplex Action" which included crystal indicators, etc. There are 5 extant Reilly’s with the Scott patent 761: Please note that Holland & Holland bought a bunch of the Scott patent 761 “Triplex Actions” early on during the first 6 years of the patent; in 1882 he advertised a "Triplex grip" pigeon gun*67g :

. . . . .SN 24675 (1882) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS. top lever, hammerless, back lock, non-ejector. Scott action patent 761(no use #).*67h

. . . . .SN 24736 (1883) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (stock, action,forend). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Scott triplex action Pat 761 use #339, Perks, crystal indicators, Scott gas check Pat 617 use #1233.

. . . . .SN 25038 (1883) - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Sreet, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12 Bore Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammerless. Scott/Baker pat 761, use #200; Needham/Hinton sears (Pat 705) 1879 patent.*67i

. . . . .SN 27853 (1886) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Paris Improved Patent. 16 bore, Shotgun SxS. Dolls Head; Side-clips; S-L, Scott triplex action Pat 761 use #2112, Perks, crystal indicators, Scott gas check Pat 617 use #1953, Whitworth Steel barrels, 1st of pair. "Not for Ball"*67j

. . . . .SN 27854 (1886) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Paris Improved Patent. 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. Dolls Head; Side-clips; S-L, Scott triplex action, Perks, crystal indicators, Whitworth steel barrels, 2nd of pair.*67k

1882, 8 Feb - Scott patent 617 - gas check. An amazingly simple patent which preserved shotgun actions from the corrosive effect of black powder, found with patent use #’s on 20 or so Reilly shotguns from 1882-to the dawn of smokelesspowder. (It was not used on rifles apparently).*67l

1886 - Perkes patent 10679 – ejector. Reilly used several Perkes patent forends and ejectors on his rifles.

1865 - Whitworth patent for fluid compressed steel barrels. Patent extended for 5 years in 1879. Reilly began using Whitworth steel barrels on his pigeon guns in 1882 (SN 24365). (see separate chapter on steel barrels below.

. . . . .SN 24365 (1882) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Shotgun SxS, 12 bore, top lever, 31" whitworth steel barrels, pigeon gun).*67m

=== *67 1875-80: Reilly paying royalties for Patent uses: END TEXT ===
===== *68 1878-80: Paris exposition; Situation of the company TEXT =====

*68 1878-80: Paris exposition; Situation of the company

Reilly again exhibited at the 1878 Paris exposition*68a and again won medals.*68b

In 1880 Reilly sold about 650 serial-numbered guns a year, a number which had remained pretty constant since the opening of the Paris store in 1868. This was still a third more hand-made bespoke guns than both Holland & Holland and Purdey combined.

This was in addition to other revenue streams for the company including:
. . .-- a very active business in guns sold under license from well known gun makers including revolvers - Trantor, Baumont-Adams, Walker, Colt, etc), rook rifles, repeating rifles - Sharps (sole importer)*68c, Winchester*68d, etc.,
. . .-- as well as merchandising every type of gun accoutrement - reloaders, cartridges, shells, cases, etc.
. . .-- and sustaining a huge business in previously owned guns.

Reilly got regular publicity from users of his guns, who posted comments in "The Field"*68e and from an editor of "The Field" who consistently lauded his Reilly-made 20 bore shotgun in numerous articles.*68f

The company had a firm niche in the London gun-making business and several commentators have speculated that he was building guns in the white for other makers. But EM, with the death of his dreams of obtaining a contract for a military rifle, had bigger plans.

=== *68 1875-80: Paris exposition; Situation of the company END TEXT =====
===== *69 Reilly in the early 1880's; 1881 Census; 1000 guns a year TEXT =====

*69 Reilly in the early 1880's; 1881 Census; 1000 guns a year

Reilly's business was booming and expanded dramatically. Serial numbered gun production rose from about 650 a year in 1880 to over 1000 a year in 1882.

Reilly told the 1881 census taker that he employed some 300 people in his firm in his two workshops on Oxford street and store in Paris and agents in Birmingham, an extraordinarialy high number for the times, an indication of the extent of his gun manufacturing and sales business.*69a (WW Greener in the same census claimed to employ 140, less than half the number of Reilly; Purdey in 1871 said he employed 58, 1/5th the number of Reilly workers).*69b

The number “300” has become controversial and a number of writers have tried to pooh-pooh it, downplay it or explain it away. After all the average number of employees at a London gunmaker in 1851 was "14." But the words are from E.M. Reilly to the census taker as are those of Greener, etc. Reilly had no reason to embellish. The gun trade was highly cyclical as illustrated by this post on the Birmingham gun industry. Not one Birmingham gun making concern could say exactly how many workers were employeed on a given day.*69c

Reilly, at the time of the 1881 census was expanding his sales of serial numbered guns from about 600-650 per year, a number which had remained constant for 12 years, to over 1000 the following year. It was entirely possible that at the time of the census Reilly was expanding his workforce and this could have included independent gun part makers under contract to him. However, the fact remains that this is what the census taker noted; if the figure is challenged then the figures for Greener, Purdey et.al are also wrong.

Note: See below chapters on the A&D Boxlock and his decision to begin “selling off the rack.” It is probable that with his 1880 pivot to the boxlock that he began to sell guns made in the white in Birmingham like everyone else, which might well account for the increased production.

He also around this time allegedly (not confirmed) began importing cheap Belgian-made revolvers in parts which he assembled in his buildings, engraved and sold. (Reilly, like Trantor and others, possibly was involved with the Belgian manufacture and "assembly trade" much earlier...perhaps dating to as early as the 1850's).

=== *69 Reilly in the early 1880's; 1881 Census; 1000 guns a year END TEXT ===
===== *70 1880: Reilly and the Anson & Deeley Boxlock TEXT =====

*70 1880: Reilly and the Anson & Deeley Boxlock

In early 1880 Reilly adopted the boxlock (Anson & Deeley 1875 Patent) and began building or having them built in significant numbers. Some 25% of the surviving Reilly guns from 1880-1912 are Boxlocks.

The Anson & Deeley boxlock articles and ads began to appear in the UK press in 1877 following a full page ad in “The Field” by Westley-Richards.*70a W-R quoted an article in the US Press for the 1876 centennial about the gun cribbed from a Birmingham press article of 1876.*70b By summer 1877 the Anson & Deeley was being advertised by all sorts of London gunmakers. Even a few prominent ones such as Greener began to market the gun.*70c However, Reilly (like a few other London gun-makers) never specifically advertised the A&D. Reilly endorsed the boxlock whole-heartedly an 1882 cameo on his company but he was clearly several years behind some.*70d

By 1880 Reilly was beginning to dramatically expand serial numbered production from 650 to over 1000 a year and had decided to "sell off the rack." (see below) The A&D boxlock would certainly have simplified the manufacturing process. Reilly could have tried to produce these himself at least early on..he had the ego and the manufacturing space.

But almost certainly Reilly began to avail himself of Birmingham produced actions in significant numbers for the first time. Buying boxlock actions from Birmingham and finishing them in London, as just about the entire trade did at the time, would have been a logical business step. Birmingham was fully geared up to produce boxlocks by 1880. The impression is strengthened since Reilly did not include the A&D in his late 1870-early 1880 ads. Importing guns in the white from Birmingham would also explain how Reilly could jump serial numbered gun production up 400 a year without adding more manufacturing space.

Birmingham box-lock actions usually have workers' initials on them someplace. None have yet to be found on a Reilly box-lock but this type of information is not usually published by auction houses.

. . . . . . . . . .-- SN 22482 (1880): The first surviving Reilly box-lock is SN 22482 (1880), a 12 gauge top lever shot gun, A&D Patent use #1156.*70e

=== *70 1880: Reilly and the Anson & Deeley Boxlock END TEXT ===
======== *71 1882: Selling Off The Rack TEXT ========

*71 1882: Selling Off The Rack

In late 1881 per advertisements it appears that Reilly made a business decision to stock ready-made guns and sell them off-the-rack as well as selling his usual bespoke made-to-order guns.*71a This might account for the soaring number of guns serial numbered per year, which grew from about 650 numbered in 1880 to some 1050 in 1882. It might also account for certain discrepancies in serial numbered guns from this time forward such as 303xx which would have been numbered in late 1888-early 1889 but still has "Not For Ball" on its barrels (a stamping discontinued in 1887).*71b

If this were the case, Reilly possibly serial numbered his bespoke guns when ordered (usual London practice) and his off-the-rack guns when sold. (When knowledgable gun historians and makers were queried about this phenomena - guns with pre-1887 proof marks apparently made after that date - they shrugged and said essentially that no-one can logically explain the process at the time - some gun makers ignored or stretched the law; some used barrels already proofed..etc.)

As pointed out above, the decision to vastly expand production and sell ready-made guns may mark the origin of a trend towards marketing Birmingham-made guns finished in London to satisfy demand, supplementing Reilly’s own production which seemed to max out at about 650 a year per the attached chart.

====== *71 1882: Selling Off The Rack END TEXT ======
==== *72 Nov 1881: Oxford Street Re-numbered; Change in Labels TEXT ====

*72 Nov 1881: Oxford Street Re-numbered; Change in Labels

In November 1881 Oxford Street was renumbered; "502" became "16 New Oxford Street" and "315" becoming "277 Oxford Street." The first advertisements for the new numbers appeared in early November 1881.*72a.

(Prior to the renumbering virtually the entire block were 315 and Purdey's 314 1/2 were located was numbered either "314" or "315." Attached is the 1882 London postal directory which has both sets of numbers for that block for the record.*72b.

The first Reilly with either of the new addresses is SN 23536 below:

. . . . .SN 23536 (Nov 1881) - The first extant gun with either of the new addresses on the ribs is SN 23536, a 12 ga. SxS BLE shotgun with E.M. Reilly & Co, 277 Oxford St., London on the rib. *72c

In spite of the formal change in numbering, the old numbers occasionally appeared in Reilly ads and on gun ribs for the next couple of years.*72d

Labels changed to reflect the two new addresses:

. . . . .-- A label for "16, New Oxford Street" with "rue Scribe" exists obviously post November 1881 and pre July 1885.*72e

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . .-- However, the Reilly trade label used at "315 Oxford Street" does not appear to have changed definitively to the new numbering system until after rue Scribe closed in 1885; no "277 Oxford Street, London" labels with the Paris branch have so far been found. (There are a very limited number of the 277 labels for this time period uncovered so far; one may still turn up).*72f

. . . . . . . . . ._____________________
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |. . . .Reilly Label. . . . .|
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |____________________|

. . . . .-- A presentation case label from this time period has yet to come to light. However there is a presentation case for SN 26181 (a very special gun) SN'd in 1883 but with a case from 1880 for the King of Spain with the 502 address and "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" on it. The key is the use of blue velvet which appears to have become the Reilly hallmark for the next 30 years for presentation cases:
. . . . . . . . . ._____________________
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |. . . .Reilly Label. . . . .|
. . . . . . . . . |. . . Presentation . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |____________________|

== *72 Nov 1881: Oxford Street Re-numbered; Change in Labels END TEXT ==
====== *73 1881: Spanish and Dutch Royal connection TEXT =======

*73 1881: Spanish and Dutch Royal connection

In 1881 in addition to the connection to the King of Portugal Reilly began advertising a connection to the Spanish and Netherlands thrones, advertising which continued for the next 8 years.*73a The crests of the two monarchs appeared also on an outlier label from 1884-85.*73b

Spanish King Alphonso XII was a modernizer and much liked by the Spanish people. He unfortunately died in November 1885, cutting short what could have been a revitilization of the country.*73c He introduced the English sport of pigeon shooting to Spain. There are two existing Reilly gun’s dedicated to the King of Spain:

. . . . .SN 25161 (1883) - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. .500 BPE/12 ga. Rifle/Shotgun; side lever, hammer gun. (King of Spain prize - 1880 case; Purdey double-bite patent 1104.*73d The story of 25161 is odd but it likely led to the Reilly claim to build guns for Alphonso XII. 25161 was to be given as a prize in 1880 by the King according to the case. However, the gun has an 1883 serial number and a pre Nov 1881 address on the rib. It is a beautiful gun and case presentation

. . . . .SN 25572 (1883) - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London and Paris, Gun & Rifle Manufacturers. .450 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L, hammer gun. "To Their Majesties Kings of Spain and Portugal” on the rib. The gun was purchased in Spain but there is no history attached.*73e

No extant examples of Reilly guns made for the King of the Netherlands, William III, a giant abusive man who may have been insane, but who, with his second marriage in 1878 settled down quite a bit,*73f or the King of Portugal, Louis I from the Braganza Dynasty,*73g have been discovered. (Reilly’s claim to make guns for the King of Portugal has already been discussed and dates to 1876.)

==== *73 1881: Spanish and Dutch Royal connection END TEXT =====
======= *74 1878-81: Two outlier Trade Labels TEXT =======

*74 1878-81: Two outlier Trade Labels

There are two attractive floral outlier trade labels from this period:

. . . . .Label 1:*74a This is a label from Reilly .450 BPE SxS rifle SN 21369 (Serial numbered in 1878 per the chart).*74b The label is from 315 Oxford Street (pre-Nov 1881). It has floral capitals which more resemble those from UK gun labels in the 1890's.*74c

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . .Label 2:*74c This label is very similar to the above. It came in a case for SN 10354, a Reilly SxS muzzle loader shotgun from 1857, transformed per records into a center-break, U-L breech-loader allegedly in 1895-1904 (per the consignor).*74d However the label has the "502 New Oxford Street" address...pre-Nov 1881. I could be that the case is not original to the rebuilt gun.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

===== *74 1878-81: Two outlier Trade Labels END TEXT =====
======= *75 1875-1890: Reilly Builds Pigeon Guns TEXT =======

*75 1869-1890: Reilly and Pigeon Guns

From the late 1860’s to 1890's Reilly was heavily involved in building pigeon guns. His first specific advertisement for a purpose built pigeon gn was in 1869.*75a His guns regularly won or placed at all levels of competition, his first recorded win being in 1972.*75b He regularly donated guns to be awarded away as prizes in pigeon shoots, both at the most prestigeous UK shooting clubs and at international events beginning in 1869.*75c

In 1882 Reilly won the year-long Hurlingham “gun-makers’ cup” championship per the 1883 Holt’s Shooting Calendar.*75d Reilly’s pigeon guns from these early 1880 years were specifically built to match the Hurlingham weight limits and thus can be used, along with other data, as something of a sanity check on date markers for dating Reilly guns. Following are examples:

. . . . .For the 1882 season Hurlingham rules weight limit for pigeon guns was fixed at 8 lbs, The below Reilly pigeon gun was built in late 1881 for the upcoming 1882 season. It weighs 8 lbs exactly and was serial numbered in December 1881; it was owned by noted SxS afficianado and helice marksman Cyril Adams:

. . . . . . . . . .SN 23574 (Dec 1881) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore; Shotgun SxS; S-L, Pigeon gun, third bite, hammer gun. Side clips; Flat file cut rib; low profile hammers; 31" Whitworth Steel barrels; 8 lbs (Cyril Adams) *75e

. . . . .For the 1883 season Hurlingham weight limit was reduced to 7 lbs 8 oz. The below three Reilly Pigeon guns serial numbered in autumn 1882 were built to this standard, 24534 being a Cyril Adams gun:

. . . . . . . . . .SN 24365 (Sep 1882) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Shotgun SxS, 12 bore, top lever; Side clips; Flat file cut rib; low profile hammers; 31" Whitworth steel barrels, pigeon gun. 7 lbs 8 oz.*75f

. . . . . . . . . .SN 24534 (Nov 1882) - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun pigeon gun; top lever, hammer gun; Side clips; Flat file cut rib; low profile hammers; 31” Whitworth steel brls. 7 lbs 8 oz (Cyril Adams)*75g

. . . . . . . . . .SN 24650 (Dec 1882) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore, S-L, hammer gun. Side clips; Flat file cut rib; low profile hammers; Pigeon gun, 30” Whitworth steel brls. 7 lbs 7oz*75h

. . . . .There is an Reilly pigeon gun built to "The Gun Club" standard weight in 1881 which was several ounces heavier than Hurlingham, which was previously owned by Cyril Adams:

. . . . . . . . . .SN 23355 (mid-1881) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Top lever, pigeon, hammer gun. 32” brls. 8 lbs 14.5 oz.*75i

The Monte Carlo pigeon shooting tournament in January of each years was regarded as a sort of unofficial world championship.*75j. A well known Italian marksman pigeon shooter Giuseppe Guidicini*75k using a Reilly pigeon gun placed 2nd in the 1884 Monte Carlo pigeon shoot and won it all for the 1885 season (shot in Monaco in January 1886). Reilly advertised his win in the London papers in January and early February 1886.*75l

The following quote is from Wyman's 1888 Industrial Encyclopedia on Reilly Pigeon gun success:

At the end of the 1882 season “Holts” Calendar gave the aggregate of winnings, of which the following statement was made about Messrs. Reilly’s guns.
--“Season of 1882, won at the priciple shooting clubs near London – 17 Prize Cups, value £519; a Gold Medal, value £50; a silver medal and £6,148 in specie (equivilant to $750,000 today); which was nearly twice as much in prizes and specie as by guns of any other maker.”
-- In the season of 1883 Messrs. Reilly were again very successful, and gentlemen shooting with their guns at Hurlingham and the Gun Club won 16 Cups, value ÂŁ505, and ÂŁ3,162 in specie results which again placed Reilly a very long way in front of other gunmakers.
-- In the season of 1884 they headed the list of winning guns, their patrons securing cups and ÂŁ3,982, nearly ÂŁ3,000 in money prizes.
-- In 1885 they were also successful, 13 cups and ÂŁ2,603 being the prizes won by their guns at the principal shooting clubs.
-- The Grand Prix du Casino, the principle "objet d’art" of the International Meeting at Monaco was won in 1886 by Signor Guidicini, the Italian sportsman who was second the previous season Besides the valuable trophy, estimated at 5,000 francs, the Signor won 18,250 francs, (about $200,000 today) killing 19 birds consecutively within the limited boundary, shooting with one of Messr. Reilly’s full-choke 12-bore pigeon guns, defeating seventy-four other competitors
*75m

===== *75 1875-1890: Reilly Builds Pigeon Guns END TEXT =====
======= *76 1882: Reilly and Steel Barrels TEXT =======

*76 1882: Reilly and Steel Barrels

In January 1882 Reilly advertised for the first time guns equipped with Whitworth compressed fluid steel barrels.*76a The Whitworth compressed steel barrel originally was a 1865 patent and was marked with the Whitworth “Grain Sheaf” trademark.*76b The patent was extended in 1879 for 5 years. However, such was the regard for the Whitworth product that even after the patent expired in 1884, gun makers still put the “Grain Sheaf” trademark stamp on their barrels as a sign of quality; it is on a Reilly 16 bore steel barrel numbered in 1886 for example.

The first known Reilly with “Compressed Steel barrels” (per the advertisement), which are presumably Whitworth since no one else had “compressed steel,” is the above December 1881 Cyril Adams pigeon gun:

. . . . .SN 23574 (Dec 1881): - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore; Shotgun SxS; S-L, Pigeon gun, third bite, hammer gun. Side clips; Flat file cut rib; low profile hammers; 31" "Compressed Steel" barrels; 8 lbs (Cyril Adams)*75b

The first Reilly steel barreled gun, which actually pictures the “wheat sheaf” Whitworth trademark, is another pigeon gun from above 24365:

. . . . .SN 24365 (Sep 1882): - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Shotgun SxS, 12 bore, top lever; Side clips; Flat file cut rib; low profile hammers; 31" Whitworth steel barrels, pigeon gun. 7 lbs 8 oz.*75c

There is an 1876 Reilly SxS rifle that appears to have steel barrels, but may be blued Damascus, the advertisement gun description being minimal:

. . . . .SN 19953 (1876): - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 500 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L hammer gun, steel barrels. Round back-acton lock. 28”*76c

It's interesting that as late as 1888 WW Greener in his book Modern Shotguns stated that Whitworth Steel barrels were not as strong as high-quality Damascus. Reilly for his part continued to use Damascus for the majority of his barrels up to the early 1900's. By that time the Damascus blanks came from Liege.

===== *76 1882: Reilly and Steel Barrels END TEXT =====
=== *77 1878-82: Reilly endorsed by prominent explorers/hunters TEXT ===

*77 1853-82: Reilly endorsed by prominent explorers and hunters

Throughout the 1870’s and 80’s Reilly published endorsements of his guns by famous big game hunters and explorers in his large advertisements.**77a. These included:

-- Henry Morton Stanley, the Welsh-American and perhaps the most famous of all African explorers.*77b. He searched central africa for Livingstone (“Dr. Livingstone I presume”), became the first European to descend the Congo from Lake Tanganyika and then returned to lay out the posts for the King of Belgium that assured control of the Congo, etc.

. . . . .Quote from How I Found Livingston:

. . . . . . . . .“For the rifle , with due deference to old sportsmen, of course the best guns for African game are the Lancaster and Reilly rifles.”*77c

-- Dr. David Livingstone:*77d British missionary and noted African explorer who traveled widely in southern and central Africa, being the first to traverse the continent at that latitude. He searched for the source of the Nile discovering numerous lakes and rivers in what is now Tanzania, Malawi, Congo and Zimbabwe. He disappeared in the late 1860’s for 6 years 4 of which he was ill, prompting huge European interest in his fate. Stanley set out in an expedition sponsored by his newspaper the New York Herald and found him in 1871.

. . . . .Quote from How I Found Livingstone:p.58.

. . . . . . . . . .“...during the time I traveled with Dr. Livingstone the Doctor lent me his heavy Reilly rifle with which I seldom failed to bring an animal or two home to the camp….. The feats related by Capt. Speck and Sir Samuel Baker are no longer a matter of wonderment to the young sportsman when he has a Lancaster or a Reilly in his hand.”*77e

-- Frederick Selous, noted Victorian era African hunter and author:*77f Salous was an amazing man. He set out for Africa at the age of 19 in 1871 and became one of the most famous African hunters and later conservationists. His charisma enveloped everyone who met him including Theordore Roosevelt and it is believed he is the model for the "Alan Quartermaine" movies. He was killed fighting the Germans in East Africa in 1916 at the age of 65. Although Selous used mostly muzzle-loaders up to about 1880 he did take a Reilly rifle with him on his first trip to Africa (perhaps influenced by Samuel Baker):

. . . . . . . . . .“Frederick Selous, 21, traveled light with just a blanket, a bag of cornmeal, two crude muzzle-loaders and two leather sacks–one for powder, the other for shot. His fine Reilly double rifle was stolen almost as soon as he arrived in Africa.“ *77g

-- Sir Samuel Baker:*77h the most famous Victorian hunter of all, of course, began using Reilly heavy rifles in the early 1850’s, had Reilly build explosive shells for him, and continued to use his Reilly connection to the end of his hunting life as previously mentioned.

. . . . .The Rifle And Hound In Ceylon (1853, republished in 1872 with the below quote):

. . . . . . . . . .”For many years I have been supplied with firstrate No. 10 rifles by Messrs. Reilly & Co. of Oxford Street, London, which have never become in the slightest degree deranged during the rough work of wild hunting. Mr. Reilly was most successful in the manufacture of explosive shells from my design; these were cast-iron coated with lead, and their effect was terrific.”*77i

. . . . .“Exploration of the Nile and Abyssinia.” (1868)

. . . . . . . . . .Among the guns Baker listed for his expedition were “Two double rifles, no. 10, by Reilly”*77j

= *76 1878-82: Reilly endorsed by prominent explorers/hunters END TEXT =
I have to leave the Sahara a week early and won't have 6 dead hours on my hand every night. I'm going to hurry up to finish posting the expanded history paragraph by paragraph - originally broken up to assist footnoting - before returning home. I'll mark where I have footnotes and if there are questions can forward them to the questioner. it's a shame all the photos have disappeared. The guns and labels need to be seen to be understood. I'll figure out a way to repost them next year maybe...it'll take another 100 posts though.

======= *78 1882-1885: International Expositions TEXT =======

*78 1882-1885: International Expositions:

1882 Calcutta Fair: Reilly exhibited at the 1882-3 Calcutta fair (a British Empire only affair) and won a medal.*78a

1884-1885 London Exposition: Reilly won a Gold Medal at the 1884 "London Exhibition" and was highly praised for his exhibit at the 1885 London International Inventions Expositions where he won a silver medal.*78b

Note there were three different international expositions in London in 1884-85;
-- An exposition at Crystal Palace;
-- the International Health Exposition of 1884; and
-- the International Inventions Exposition of 1885.
Reilly apparently won a gold medal at the International Health Exposition, although he publicized the medals only as “London Exhibition 1884.” The medals from the International Health Exposition appeared on his labels own 1885.*78c

Reilly also won a silver medal at the International Inventions Exposition which was mentioned in several advertisements but the medals never put onto his labels;

Reilly's exhibit at this exposition is described in Wyman:

“Messrs. Reily & Co.'s stand at the Intrnational Inventioins Exhibition of 1885 was acknowledged to have been one of the best appointed exhibits. (…..3 paragraphs of detailed description of guns found including .450 and .500 heavy double rifles, breech loading hammer and hammerless guns with ejectors, A&D boxlocks, Cape Guns, boys and naturalist guns, etc…..)..helping make up a well-appointed miniature gun-shop in the Exhibition Hall”*78d.

Note: One Reilly "naturalist" shotgun exists from this period (a small gun made to take wildlife samples without tearing them to shreds):

. . . . .SN 25851 (1884:) E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. Shotgun SxS. 410. Side lever, hammer gun. Naturalist's "sample" gun.*78e.

===== *78 1882-1885: International Expositions END TEXT =====
======= *79 1884-1885: Reilly outlier label TEXT =======

*79 1884-1885: Reilly outlier label

Outlier label with the three kings: Two examples of yet another Reilly "outlier" label from this period have been found. It is for 16, New Oxford Street and mentions both 277 Oxford Street and 2 rue Scribe Paris. It has the coats of arms of the Kings of Portugal, Spain and Netherlands. It also mentions “wholesale and retail,” and “Gun and Rifle Manufacturers.” How this Reilly label fits into the label chronology is unclear but the guns associated with the label were numbered in 1884 and 1885.*79a

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

===== *79 1884-1885: Reilly outlier label END TEXT =====
======= *80 July 1885: Closure of the Paris Branch TEXT =======

*80 July 1885: Closure of the Paris Branch

In July 1885 rue Scribe was closed. The reasons for this are not known - hand made guns were being sold at a very high rate; it may have had to do with the departure of a long-time partner (possibly a M. Poirat? M. Poirat was the agent for Reilly in 1871, mentioned in French parliamentary records when Reilly tried to sell the stock of Chassepot rifles in Birmingham to the French Republic).

The closure is confirmed by Reilly advertisements in the main-stream press. “Rue Scribe, Paris” is present in advertisements in “The Field” in late July 1885; It is noticeably absent in the same ad in early August 1885 and in all other newspaper advertisements from then on.*80a

. . . . .SN 27340 (July 1885): The last extant SN'd gun with rue Scribe on the rib is 27340, a 12 bore SxS top-lever, hammer-gun, shotgun. The address on the rib is “New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris.”*80b

===== *80 July 1885: Closure of the Paris Branch END TEXT =====
== *81 1885-86: Satellite Paris - 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honoré, Paris? TEXT ==

*81 1885-1886: Satellite Paris address at 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honoré, Paris?

Sometime in early 1885 Reilly apparently opened a small satellite branch of 2 rue Scribe, Paris at 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honoré, Paris for a short time. Attached are some geographical notations on this alleged branch:
. . . . .Map of rue du Faubourg:*81a
. . . . .Contemporary photo of rue du Faubourg.*81b
. . . . .Photo of 29 rue du Faubourg:*81c

Five different gun case labels have been found with this address. The rue du Faubourg labels are generally in the classic post 1861 Reilly format but are not scolloped (edit: a sixth has been found with scollops). They feature the usual main 16, New Oxford Steet address with the 277 Oxford street branch; the rue du Faubourg address is located where 2 rue Scribe had been for 17 years. The labels illustrate the 1867 Paris medals in the upper left hand corner and the 1884 London International Exposition medals in the right. This seemingly dates these labels and correspondingly the existence of this shop from late 1884 after the International Health exhibit to early 1885.*81d

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The scroll work on the rue du Faubourg label is different from that on the classic pre-1885 Reilly label and seems to precede the scroll later used on the stand-alone 16, New Oxford Street label with no Paris address issued after August 1885. Attached are comparisons of the three labels.*81e
. . . . . . . . . ._____________________
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |. . . .Reilly Label. . . . .|
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . scroll work . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |____________________|

One of the labels appears on SN 26880, a gun dated to Feb 1885.*81f However, this label was also is found in a case housing SN 22432, dated 1880 and bought by a man who died in 1882 (the label obviously was added later, possibly after a repair).*81g

There is an argument as to whether rue du Faubourg existed after Reilly closed 2 rue Scribe late July 1885. The argument is summarized below:

. . .-- Evidence against the existance of rue du Faubourg after 31 July 1885 closure of 2 rue Scribe:
. . . . .- No newspaper advertisements for this branch exist. It should have been publicized by Reilly had it been more than a transient sales shop.
. . . . .- No extant guns have thus far been found with this address on their ribs.
. . . . .- After July 1885 there is no mention of “Paris” in any of the Reilly advertisements in the mass popular daily papers.

. . .-- Evidence for the existence of rue du Faubourg after July 1885.

. . . . .- There are five extant labels carrying this address.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . .- It was a prestigious location - Coco Chanel's apartments were above it in another century.*81h In addition to very fashionable Paris shops, Some Parisian gun makers had factories/workshops/show rooms on rue du Faubourg. The road was also the heart of the English speaking community living in Paris a la “Belle Époque” including the home of the British ambassador to France. A sales-shop in that area would seem to be a logical Reilly commercial decision. But it would have been advertised.

. . . . .- There are three extant Reilly guns serial numbered after the closure of 2 rue Scribe - which have "Paris" on their barrels. Two of these are a SxS pair built on the Scott "triplex" system. Counter argument: The guns or barrels could have been labeled before the closure of 2 rue Scribe and used a year later.*81i

. . . . .-There are magazine advertisements stretching into 1887 for Reilly at "Paris." Counter argument: Some of these are long term advertisements that were not changed over a several years.*81j

. . . . .- A series of brief paid-for ads appeared in the January-February 1886 London press touting a win at the Monte Carlo pigeon shoot by Italian champion pigeon shooter Giuseppe Guidicini using a Reilly with the rue du Faubourg address per the pigeon gun chapter above. (see chapter *75 above) The paid for articles were likely placed by Reilly; at the time he had no compunction about advertising a rue du Faubourg address; whether this was for prestige (Paris) or because he was indeed still in Paris is yet to be determined.*81k

A review of Parisian government records will likely solve this mystery. There are yearly surveys of businesses per street in Paris during this period and postal records are also available both of which should illustrate the existance of a Reilly Armurier at rue du Faubourg from circa early 1885 to early-mid-1886. However, the records are not on line and so far the French archives located in Paris have not been helpful. The lack of advertising for the shop is perplexing and this matter will continue to be looked into.

(Edit: There is a growing suspicion that Reilly may have had no store at all at 29 rue du Faubourg and that this was only an "accomodation address," perhaps using the address of an English tailor located at the site.*81l. Reilly was not above such subterfuges. Paris postal directories should solve this mystery).

= *80 1885-86: Satellite Paris - 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honoré, Paris? END TEXT =
======= *82 July 1885: Change in Reilly labels TEXT =======

*82 July 1885: Change in Reilly labels

The labels for both London branches changed slightly with the closure of 2 rue Scribe on 31 July 1885. The new labels retained the essence of the original 1861 labels. These labels were used from the clusure of rue Scribe, Paris in July-August 1885 to the closure of 16 New Oxford Street in May 1897.

. . . . .-- 16, New Oxford Street, continued with the scolloped corners, double outlining following the model of the 1861 and 1868 labels. It has the 1867 medals in the upper left corner but with the 1884 London International Exposition gold medal in the upper right.*82a

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . . . . . . .The new label also advertised different guns in the scroll work at the bottom of the label.*82b
. . . . . . . . . ._____________________
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |. . . .Reilly Label. . . . .|
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . scroll work . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |____________________|

. . . . .-- 277, Oxford Street also continued its label tradition without the scollops or border lining.*82c

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . . . . . . .Likewise some of the descriptions in scroll work in the center of the new label were changed.*82d
. . . . . . . . . ._____________________
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |. . . .Reilly Label. . . . .|
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . scroll work . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |____________________|

======= *82 July 1885: Change in Reilly labels TEXT =======
======= *83 Reilly in the Late 1880's: TEXT =======

*83 Reilly in the Late 1880's:

Reilly exhibited at the 1889 Paris World's Fair, the "Tour Eiffel" Exposition Universelle,*83a and won a silver medal.*83b However, for some reason he chose not to publicize the medal. Wesley-Richards won the overall gold medal and every English gunmaker entered in the exposition was awarded a silver medal; perhaps Reilly felt this degraded the accomplishment.

A nasty law-suit "Reilly vs Booth" on easement limitations to the Salavation Army Hall behind his establishment at 277 Oxford Street was litigated. The legal decision is cited to this day.*83c

The fact is, something changed with the firm after 1886. Reilly's guns regularly won competitions*83d and were donated to be given as prizes at high-end shooting competitions. *83e Advertisements continued to fill the papers publicizing his sale of all sorts of guns, “Elephant and Tiger Rifles,” Magnum Express Rifles,” “Express double and single Rifles,” “Self-extracting hammerless shotguns,” etc.*83f Many ads noted his offering of his “Special Pigeon Guns,” “of great power; Hurlingham weight, Whitworth barrels, below line-of-sight hammers.”*83g

But, the company just gradually seemed to go backward. His guns used many of the latest patents but numbered guns made per year declined from its height of 1050 in 1885 to about 700 in 1889. The cocky swagger of the 1860's seemed to have burnt itself out.

===== *83 Reilly in the Late 1880's:END TEXT =====
====== *84 1890: Death of E.M. Reilly and aftermath TEXT ======

*84 1890: Death of E.M. Reilly and aftermath:

In July 1890 EM Reilly contracted broncho-pneumonia and passed away.*84a, 84b, 84c

Of Reilly's “acknowledged” sons Charles A. was 20, Herbert H. was 15, and Gerald Atol was 13 - all still in school, none apparently with the hands-on gun-making expertise that EM had in his upbringing. His first "son" Edward Montague, who he referred to as “my reputed son,” was 23 and apparently working as a locomotive mechanic (see below).

In his will*84d E.M left a sum of about £8,000 (about $1.2 million today). Thus was in addition to the two buildings held freehold (probably by the company), the guns, the tools, etc. (The structure of the company and Reilly’s partners, if any, are still not known).

His wife Mary Ann was in her 40's. Business was still lively. Widows did successfully manage companies in England at the time after the deaths of their husbands. EM specifically did not leave his wife the "trade books."*84e However, newspaper articles on the later death of her son Edward Montague seem to indicate that Mary was indeed running the company during this time.*84f

With EM’s death, somehow the light of Reilly entrepreneurship went out. Mary Ann Reilly had to operate in a "man's world" and no matter how strong willed, there were serious obstacles for her.

Subsequently, his sons on their majority did not seem to have the hands-on knowledge of the gun manufacturing trade that EM had hammered into him in the 1830's. Nor did they have the generational connections to the business, or the understanding of the complex entertwinings of its execution. The gun-trade was always a sort of dance while juggling a number of balls
-- relationship to outworkers,
-- handling in-house bench workers,
-- dealing with importation of parts (from Belgium) and the licensing for manufacturing others' patents,
-- contacts with Birmingham mass production factories
-- kow-towing to the upper class,
-- staying abreast of market trends,
-- and always advertising and promoting.

By the time Bert actually exerted control over the company, surely around 1899 after Mary’s death, its reputation and place in the English gun-making fraternity had been seriously eroded. (And Bert not bothering to attend assemblies of English gun-makers probably didn't help - fraternization, even in a cut-throat business, always is a plus).*84g

==== *84 1890: Death of E.M. Reilly and aftermath TEXT ====
Please note that these assessments of the Reilly's are my own, formed after reading every word of their advertisements, articles, letters, etc. and noting what little personal information is available about them, etc. This chapter is not footnoted except for the photos for that reason

========= *85 Characterizing the Reilly's: TEXT =========

*85 Characterizing the Reilly's:

This study has not looked at the Reilly family except where it effects the business; however, here are some possible characterizations of the Reilly's based on very limited information, much from Sally Nestor, family researcher.

-- J.C. Reilly comes across as something of an early 19th century, self-absorbed narcissist (this from one possibly extremely prejudiced source) . Yet, he registered a silver mark - not something one can just do without true expertise and apprenticeship, and per John Campbell, not independently confirmed, he was a clock-maker and a member of the "Clockmakers" guild. JC apparently had some serious mechanical skills. He appears to have been rebellious, snarky, egotistical and independent, and probably was a difficult and demanding boss, husband, father. His wife left him, and a couple of his children apparently wanted nothing to do with him. But, he had allies in the gun world, i.e. a relationship with John Blanch from pretty much the time when he first began to build his own guns (a deduction from very limited evidence. Blanch kept Reilly advertisements from the 1840’s era in his private scrap book. In 1855 EM and Blanch's son Williams seem to have encouraged each other to tackle pin fire breech loaders.

-- E.M. Reilly appears to have been an imaginative, far-sighted, organized, ambitious businessman (based on his business record). He also worked with his father from an early age in the gun making business and had extensive hands-on experience in making guns and air guns.
-- He rationalized the Reilly serial numbers, created new trade labels, and advanced new and risky products.
-- He had some excellent political connections in the gun trade - the same group of gun makers appear repeatedly together in the late 1850-early 1860 time period - Prince, Green, Deane, Reilly, Blanche, Manton and a couple of others - and given that he manufactured well in excess of 6,000 Comblain breech loaders (presumably in Birmingham) in the 1860's, he had connections there as well. He had to have had some people skills.
-- He had a talent for recognizing promising new patents and was not afraid to build them to suit or to take technological business risks trying to anticipate market demand.
-- He was definitely a Francophile in an English world where France conjured up the image of a 1000 year old structural enemy. One must wonder if he got his dander up after being snubbed by the Royal Family; he seemed to turn mockingly towards anti-gun-making establishment; giving the proverbial finger to Purdey doesn't win friends.
-- He also at least early on was a practicing Catholic and may have had a chip on his shoulder about this. As late as the 1960's John Le Carre commented in a "Murder with Quality" about this lingering English phenomenon of religious persecution. He dreamed big dreams and the biggest was snagging a contract with Arsenal. One must wonder whether his religion played a part in his inability to obtain this.
-- He was probably not regarded as a "gentleman" by the English class conscious society. And definitely so when he took up with Mary Ann, a 20 year old and had four children out of wedlock. He was a businessman and a trader and though he tried to be royalty respected, he was insulted. He returned the insult by being successful.
-- He was perhaps a bit of a control freak and probably not easy to be around - especially if you were his son. (The Victorian age was not a "huggy-feely" one) (this only from interpreting the wording in his will).

. . . . .The only two known photos of E.M Reilly (from Sally Nestor's posting on ancestry.com) are attached.*85a

[b]-- Edward Montague Reilly
his first "son b.1867 probably was the pre-marriage offspring of then 50 year old EM and his then 21 year old future wife Mary. Four sons were born to EM and Mary, all technically out of wedlock; However, only Edward Montague was called a "reputed" son by his father. Edward Montague was an "engineer" and "gun maker" following somewhat in his father's footsteps. He was designated as an executor of EM's will (along with Mary). He apparently later worked on locomotives. He did not seem to have advanced education and one wonders if he were a bit "slow." His father's sneering references to him cannot have improved his psyche. In about 1893 he came down with tuberculosis and ultimately fell from an upper window at 277 Oxford Street in July 1895.

-- Mary Ann Reilly, E.M.'s wife, was a woman operating in a "man's world" after his death. The fact that she apparently ran the company for 9 years from 1890-99 is a testament to her pluckiness. There is not much known about her except by analysis. She was born in 1845. No-one knows who were her parents or her background; family historians speculate that she was E.M.'s cousin. Even her maiden name is not clear - it is either Curtis or "C-o-x." At the age of 20 she seduced a 50 year old successful businessman, ignoring convention. She had 4 sons out of "wedlock" one of which may not have been his; something or someone kept them from formally marrying until the late 1870’s. After EM’S death, in spite of very specifically not being left the "trade books," she apparently took over and ran a large company in Victorian, England. This is something movies are made for - sex, guns, money and power. Her offspring included later Members of Parliament. She died 12 January 1899. She deserves more attention. Yet, under her guidance the company began steadily to contract. She had neither the insight into the gun business nor the connections to keep the company afloat.

. . . . .A photo is attached which possibly shows EM and Mary walking on Oxford Street near 277.*85b

[b]======= *85 Characterizing the Reilly's: END TEXT =======
======= *86 Mid-1890's: Reilly’s decline TEXT =======

*86 Mid-1890's: Reilly’s decline

By 1895, the death of Edward Montague, Reilly guns were no longer being mentioned as often as winners in pigeon shoots; Reilly victories and promotional donations of guns as prizes had been a prominent feature in London papers for 25 years. The number of serial number guns built by Reilly continued to decline after E.M.’s death from about 680 in 1890 to 250 in 1897.

And yet, advertisements for the firm's products continued to fill newspapers and journals,*86a although as the decade went on, the regular newspaper ads became smaller.*86b Some beautiful guns were made the finest being sidelocks with a sprinkling of big bore SxS rifles.*86d Reilly even built SxS’s chambered for the .303. Quote from WW Greener’s “The Breech Loader" (1898): “My late father took with him a double .303 ejector built by Reilly and Co., and he did excellent work with it at all kinds of game.”*86e

And perhaps due to reputation, Reilly was still being mentioned in books at the turn of the century as a company which could make quality Africa-proof big-bore rifles. Again a quote from “The Breech-Loader” p.378: “In conclusion, I think that I shall be offering good advice by recommending intending investors in .303 arms to go to the best makers and get good value. The work of Greener, Reilly, Westley Richards, etc., can be relied on… (signed Hjenry T. Glynn, Sadie Hall, Transvaal)"*86f

Case labels during this time period continued to be the classic 16, New Oxford Street or 277, Oxford Street labels which were adopted after the closure of 2 rue Scribe.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Note the new instructions for reloading with smokeless powders including “E.C., Schultz or Walsrode”:
. . . . . . . . . ._____________________
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |. . Reilly instruction. . .|
. . . . . . . . . |. . .reloading labels. . .|
. . . . . . . . . |____________________|

Presentation Case labels continued with the now standard blue velvet interiors:
. . . . . . . . . ._____________________
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |. . . .Reilly Label. . . . .|
. . . . . . . . . |. .presentation case . . |
. . . . . . . . . |____________________|

Note: In 1896, London proofs changed again with the addition of “Nitro Proof” and “1 1/4 oz Max” added. Toby Barclay marketed a gun serial numbered by Reilly in late 1898 but with the pre-1896 proof marks on the barrel.

. . . . .SN 35079 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. SLE; brls proofed pre-1896; Southgate pat 12314; Southgate ejector trip pat 8239)*86g

===== *86 Mid-1890's: Reilly’s decline END TEXT =====
======= *87 May 1897: Closure of 16, New Oxford Street TEXT =======

*87 May 1897: Closure of 16, New Oxford Street

In early May 1897 the company closed 16 New Oxford Street where it had been located for 50 years; 277 Oxford Street remained open. The closure date can be illustrated by identical Reilly advertisements in the "Sporting Gazette." On 1 May 1997 the ad has both 16, New Oxford Street and 277, Oxford Street. On 8 May 1897 the identical ad has only the 277 address.*87a

What happened to the building and to the machinery is unknown. One supposes the furnishings and tools were sold at auction someplace. The building, however, was still intact in downtown London in the 1970's; Donald Dallas said he used to walk past it every day on his way to the London School of Economics and think about Reilly having been there for half a century.

Bespoke guns continued to be sold in the early 1890's at a goodly clip but as the decade advanced for some reason the demand for these hand-made and measured guns in a middling cost category seemed to decline. Reilly serial numbered gun production dwindled. The company's mangement after 1890 did not seem to have E.M.'s business sense or "touch” and his guns began to seem a bit old-fashioned.

With sales diminishing, closing the finishing facilities at 16 New Oxford street while retaining the smaller sales and manufacturing spaces at 277 Oxford Street would seem logical. (Reilly made about 400 serial numbered guns a year at 502, New Oxford Street in 1857; when 315 Oxford Street was opened production increased to about 650. Thus it looks like 277 had a maximum production capacity of 250 guns and once Reilly sales reached that point, there was no point keeping two workshops and retail stores open)

. . . . .SN 34723 - The last extant SN'd gun from 16 New Oxford Street is 34723, a 12 bore SxS, top-lever, Damascus-barrelled, hammer-gun, shotgun. Note: This quite elegant gun has Birmingham proofed barrels; It may be further evidence that as Reilly declined after EM's death, the company increasingly relied on out-sourced gun parts (as did most of London gunmakers).

For the record the Reilly shop manager at 277 at the time of this closure was James Curtis, no additional information.

===== *87 May 1897: Closure of 16, New Oxford Street END TEXT =====
======= *88 1890-97: label and presentation case changes TEXT =======

*88 1890-97: label and presentation case changes

As mentioned above within a couple of years after EM's death the company's descriptions on Reilly's presentation cases changed back to "Gun and Rifle makers" although the company was still "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" in phone and business directories. The extant presentation cases for the most case are from 277. After the closure of 16, New Oxford Strip, the cases became pretty uniform. All have blue felt with the address and name printed either directly on the felt or on a black leather label affixed to the cloth.*88a
. . . . . . . . . ._____________________
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |. . . .Reilly Label. . . . .|
. . . . . . . . . |. . . Presentation . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |____________________|

After May 1897 the trade/case label changed. It was much modernized and appeared almost "carney-barker"-like.*88b 16 New Oxford Street was of course dropped as was the entire old format label used since 1860.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The new “modern” label displayed four sets of medals won in 1876 (Philadelphia), 1878 (Paris), 1884 (London) and 1873 (Vienna) (although there is no evidence that Reilly actually exhibited in Vienna)*88c It advertised “magazine guns” and emphasized "conversions, alterations and repairs" which perhaps at this point in the company history was an important revenue stream.

. . . . . . . . . ._____________________. . . . . . . . . ._____________________
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |. . . .Reilly Label. . . . .|. . . . . . . . . |. . . .Reilly Label. . . . .|
. . . . . . . . . |. . . . . .Medals . . . . . |. . . . . . . . . |. . .Ads/promotions . . |
. . . . . . . . . |____________________|. . . . . . . . . |____________________|

===== *88 1890-97: label and presentation case changes END TEXT =====
===== *89 1899: Death of Mary Ann Reilly; Bert takes over: TEXT =====

*89 1899: Death of Mary Ann Reilly; Bert takes over:

In January 1899 Mary Ann Reilly died - she was only 54.*89a No details of her death are known; no will has been uncovered. She died as she lived with much unknown about her except for her apparent formidable will.

It looks as if her two oldest surviving sons, Charles A. and Herber (Bert) assumed some sort of control over the firm after her death. The 1901 census lists them both at 277 Oxford Street and both said they were gunmakers.*89b However, it is pretty evident that the younger brother Bert was in charge.

For whatever reason, there was a noticable change in newspaper advertisements very soon after Mary’s death.
. . . . .-- Reilly went back from having tiny ads in the late 1890’s to large format ads in “The Field” and “The Sporting Gazette.”*89c
. . . . .-- Reilly began re-using “Gun & Rifle Makers” vice “Gun Manufacturers” in his advertisements.*89d
. . . . .-- Reilly began for the first time to advertise Eley cartridges in 1899 perhaps giving up his cartridge making revenue stream.*89e (Reilly cartridges may have been made by Eley anyway for some time). Note: Reilly since the early-mid 1990's had been advertising several different types of smokeless power one could have loaded in his shells including “E.C., Schultz or Walsrode” and included instructions attached to his gun cases on loads for these powders. However, for Reilly to finally actually advertise Eley was quite a step indicating that as production and revenue fell, reality had to be faced by selling others' ammunition; And this reality probably intruded to include outsourcing gun components).
. . . . .-- And Reilly for the first time advertised using a '"try-gun" to fit customers to their bespoke guns.*89f

And yet the bleeding continued. Serial numbered gun production numbers declined steadily:
-- 250 in 1897,
-- 160 in 1898,
-- 100 in 1899,
--. 75 in 1900,
--. 70 in 1901.
Clearly management could not keep a full complement of skilled workers in-house building such a small number of guns.

=== *89 1899: Death of Mary Ann Reilly; Bert takes over: END TEXT ===
===== *90 Move to 295 Oxford-Street, 1903-4; Trade Label Update TEXT =====

*90 Move to 295 Oxford-Street, 1903-4; Trade Label Update

In March 1903 the Company vacated 277 Oxford-Street where they had been quartered for 44 years while the building was being renovated and moved 300 yards down the street to 295 Oxford-Street. It appears to have come as something of a surprise to some people. “The Field” editor was in the Reilly showroom in early February looking at rook rifles.*90a

Attached photos and maps:
. . . . .Map of Oxford Street*90b
. . . . .Contemporary photo of the area; 295 looks to be a considerably smaller building than 277 and much smaller than the current building on the site.*90c
. . . . .Google Map photo of the current building at 295.*90d

Note: Newspaper ads for Reilly stopped in late February or early March 1903 while Reilly was still at 277, and did not resume again until May 1904 with the shop located at 295 Oxford Street.*90e Thus it appears that Reilly closed down completely for 14 months. Reilly only made about 175 guns from the time of the move from 277 to bankruptcy in June 1912, a sad commentary on the end of a storied firm.

For 1903, the chart has Reilly making only 10 guns in an 8 week period before closing (and that might be optimistic). When gun making resumed in May 1904, the chart has him making 40 guns for 1904:

. . . . . SN 3539435394 (1903): The last extant gun made at 277 Oxford Street should be 35394 a 12 gauge SxS BLE shotgun with steel sleeved barrels (thus no address).*90f

. . . . .SN 35398 (1904): The first extant gun with 295 Oxford Street, London on the rib is 35398, a 12 ga. SxS BLE shotgun, dated by the below chart to May 1904.*90g

The trade label continued to be the 1897 “4 medal” label but with “277” crossed out and “295” stamped above.*90h

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

=== *90 Move to 295 Oxford-Street, 1903-4; Trade Label Update END TEXT ===
===== *91 1904-1912: Reilly finishing guns bought in the white? TEXT =====

*91 1904-1912: Reilly reduced to finishing guns bought in the white?

With this possible shutdown of the company for 14 months, it is doubtful that young Bert Reilly could have kept his gunsmiths employed. In addition, from the time the company reopened until bankruptcy eight years later, only a very small number of guns were serial numbered by Reilly, less than 25 a year. Thus it is hard to imagine Reilly after May 1904 as a complete gun-making firm as it was in the heady days of JC and EM. Bert Reilly probably resorted to finishing guns provided by outworkers in the white and concentrated on repairing and updating guns.

There are Reilly guns serial numbered n the 1880’s that bear the 295 address on the barrel or case placed after they had obviously been brought in for new barrels or for service.*90a His case labels and advertisements seem to confirm this.*91b .

Reportedly during this period (per IGC) at least one gun was built with "J.C. Reilly" and the old "Holborn Bars" address on the rib (photos not located- additional information not provided by IGC which did not footnote its history.).

There is an extant Reilly rifle converted to a shotgun which is a pair with a new four digit serial number code. What this means is unclear. This gun very much resembles Reilly rifle SN 35554:

. . . . .SN .1833 (Outlier which in the chronology should date to late 1830's) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (rebarrelled by John Harper). 12 gauge SxS Shotgun. BLE. Repurposed from a big bore rifle. 26" barrels, pistol grip. #2 of pair*91c

. . . . .SN 35554 (1907): E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London. .500/.465 SxS Nitro Express rifle, BLE. (This cartridge was introduced by Holland&Holland in spring 1907.*91d

There is one Reilly SN 35614 which has a serial number on the barrel for Holloway sent by Marc Crudrungton. This is one of the very few serial numbered Reilly’s, which appear to have been built definitively by a firm other than Reilly himself. The Holloway SN would date the gun to 1911. This in and of itself is significant since it skews the “numbered guns built chart” per below.
. . . . . . . . . .-- (At the same time there is something odd about this gun; the engraving seems to revert to pre-1860 Reilly engraving and looks nothing at all like the other surviving Reilly’s from that time period. The differences are so striking as to call into question the authenticity of the gun, its serial number and address).

. . . . .SN 35614 (1911 - per Holloway records): E.M. Reilly & Co. 295 Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun; self-cocking, Side-lock, ejector built by Holloway SN "H8113" (1911) *91e

This said, there are other Reilly’s from 1911 including an extant pair, which have no outside-worker marks on them as far as can be determined from auction house advertisements and which look like proper Reilly's.*91f

. . . . .SN 35673 (1911): E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock. #1 of pair.
. . . . .SN 35674 (1911): E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock. #2 of pair.

=== *91 1904-1912: Reilly finishing guns bought in the white? END TEXT ===
========== *92 June 1912: Bankruptcy TEXT ==========

*92 June 1912: Bankruptcy

Per advertisements in September 1911 the company announced it was for sale or in need of new partners with cash. Its stock of guns was advertised at reduced prices for cash only.*92a

In December 1911 the company was changed to a limited liability company with "CW Roberts" (probably G. Watkinson Roberts - liquidator specialist) as one of the directors. Roberts was a bankruptcy lawyer. Reilly's continued advertising 295 for sale in Spring 1912 per newspaper advertisements. It appears Bert Reilly knew bankruptcy was coming and changed the company to protect his personal assets. He retained his separate homes after bankruptcy.

Bankruptcy was declared on 06 June 1912 (publicized on 08 June 1912 in the London Monday morning papers).*92b

. . . . .—SN 35678 (1911?): The last extant gun with 295 on the rib is 35678, a 12 bore SxS BLE shotgun.*92c

Note: Per the 1911 census Bert Reilly no longer lived on the premises of his workshop at 295 Oxford Street, a first for a Reilly owner.*92d Reilly's had lived in their shops since at least 1835.

========== *92 June 1912: Bankruptcy END TEXT ==========
===== *93 1912-1918: 13 High Street, Marylebone TEXT =====

*93 1912-1918: 13 High Street, Marylebone

Bert Reilly opened a small gun repair shop, "E.M Reilly & Co., Gun Maker," at 13 High Street, Marylebone in 1912 after the bankruptcy.
. . . . .—Attached map of Marylebone*93a
. . . . .—Attached googe.map photo of 13 High Street.*93b

No advertisements can be found for the shop though per London postal address, telephone and business directories they identified themselves as "gunmakers."
. . . . .—attached 1912 Post Office Directory – Reilly, E.M. & CO., Gun & Rifle mfrs, still at 295*93c.
. . . . .—attached 1915 Street Directory – Reilly, E.M & Co. Gunmakers, 13 High St Mrlebne*93d
. . . . .—attached 1916 Street Directory – Reilly, E.M., Gun Maker 13 High St Mrlebne*93e

No guns with this address on the rib have been found. The date of its closure is not noted although it is listed in the London telephone directory in 1918 (but not in 1919).
. . . . .—attached 1918 Street directory – Reilly E.M., Gun Maker 13 High St. Mrlebne*93f
. . . . .—attached 1918 phone directory - Mayfair 406 Reilly E.M., Gun Maker, 13 High St Mrlebne*93g
. . . . .—attached 1919 directory – E.M. Reilly not found.*93h

(Note: IGC claims that 13 High Street was occupied by Reilly as early as December of 1911 while 295 was for sale; no footnotes or validation of this claim were published. It has not been verified. London directories and telephone directories do not seem to support this assertion.)

=== *93 1912-1918: 13 High Street, Marylebone END TEXT ===
======= *94 Charles Riggs era, August 1922-1950? TEXT =======

*94 Charles Riggs era, August 1922-1950?:

In August 1922 The Reilly name was bought by a sporting goods dealer named Charles Riggs (most Reilly history summaries put the date of purchase as 1917; this is belied by the dates of newspaper advertising). Riggs apparently decided he could use the name to promote his premium line of guns (possibly built by Osborne/Midland or perhaps Holloway - based on similarity of engraving).
. . . . .attached - 1st ads:
. . . . . . . . . .18 Aug 1922, “Essex Newsman”*94a
“Guns: Reilly and Co., Famous Gunmakers 100 years in Oxford Street, ask you to send for List, 107 Bishopsgate, London. C11."
. . . . . . . . . .30 Sep 1922, “Essex Newsman”*94b
"Guns: Best English Make, ÂŁ4 to ÂŁ40 to suit your pocket. Send for full illustrated list. E.M. Reilly & Co., Ltd., 107 Bishopsgate, London. C11. Estd 100 years in Oxford Street".

Riggs Started off in Broad Street Station, London marketing BSA products with his name on them in the early 1900's.*94c In 1912 he moved to 107, Bishopsgate where he continued to market all sorts of BSA goods including the motorcycles” *94d, *94e, *94f (known colloquially to 1960’s riders as “Bastard Stopped Again"). He expanded into other sporting goods such as tennis and golf and continued selling guns. His catalogs include all sorts of BSA firearms and usually advertisements for .303 SMLE Enfields and the like.

He originally had his own “Riggs” brand of sporting guns (built in Birmingham):
. . . . .Advertisement for a “Riggs Gun” *94g
. . . . .Case and Label for a “Riggs gun.”*94h

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Per internet chatter (unconfirmed), he marketed his own ammunition under the name "the Bishop" made by Eley up to at least 1914.

He also wrote a book in 1915 “Practical Points of Musketry.”*94i He had been a member of the Essex Yoemanry Militia for many years and for 20 years beginning in 1911 sponsored an annual reunion of the Essex Yoemanry.*94j He brokered the sale of 1,500 Martini-Henry's to local militia groups early in WWI.

The Riggs' 1922-23 catalog has the following introduction for his “Reilly” brand:*94k

. . . . .“The WORLD FAMED HOUSE OF E.M. REILLY & Co., late of Oxford Street, London, W. is now amalgamated with the house of CHARLES RIGGS & Co. Ltd of 107 Bishopsgate, London: Ecr, thus making one of the strongest combinations ever known in the Gun Making and Sports Goods business….

. . . . .”The 'House of Reilly' is too well known in gun circles to need any comments here having been established nearly 100 years and its reputation for craftsmanship and value is a household word. All our guns in future will be named “E.M. Reilly & Co., London” thus adding another 25% to the value should you ever desire to sell it.”


Riggs-Reilly guns usually have "E.M. Reilly & Co., London" on the ribs; Sometimes "E.M. Reilly & Co., Ltd." As a further identifier, a lot of the Rigg's-Reilly's have "Prince of Wales" half pistol grip stocks, something the original Reilly firm almost never made. They were proofed in Birmingham. Riggs'-Reilly named guns have six-digit serial numbers and appear to begin at around 128000. The earliest Riggs serial number so far identified is 128466). A Riggs "Reilly" with a serial number in the 150000's is known to exist.

Examples of extant Riggs-Reillys:
. . . . .SN 128466 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun, 29" barrels. Nfi. 1st extant Riggs-Reilly*94l
. . . . .SN 131065 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun. BLNE. 30” barrels. 2.5” chambers*94m
. . . . .SN 150570 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock non-ejector. (Brm proofs) Last extant Riggs-Reilly*94n

Riggs stopped specifically mentioning the Reilly name in advertisements by January 1923 but continued to label his guns as "E.M. Reilly & Co., London." Per serial numbers he appears to have sold well in excess of 20,000 'Reilly" guns over the course of some 20-25 years.

Riggs was quite a self-promoting character and comes across in advertisements and articles as something of an annoying, pretentious, status-climbing, individual with a large ego and a huge amount of hubris and energy. There are pictures of him medalled like a royal prince claiming marksmanship trophies that the historical record doesn't support.*94o He billed himself as a yeomanry sergeant early on*94p but had promoted himself to Lieutenant later on in life.*94q He very well could have rubbed the gun establishment the wrong way.

Comment: Reading Rigg's letters to the London Press etc., can be grating (such as this 1914 letter about his son having "the time his life" on the western front in WWI).*94r The man would have made millions in the USA with his energy and without the class chip on his shoulder. In UK the way he presented himself and his business might have resonated with the BSA motorcycle crowd, which were his customers also, but likely was deadly to the upper classes; he made a lot of money - helped soccer clubs, contributed money to a down and out boxer, etc. - but apparently not a lot of friends in the close-knit gun making fraternity.

The Riggs guns, all 22,000 + of them, are not ugly...but are now regarded as "journeyman guns," made in Birmingham "for the trade" of medium quality. Who negotiated the sale of the Reilly name is unknown. Whether a Reilly was involved in the design of the Riggs-Reilly's is not known.
. . . . .But what a come-down in advertising: from weekly ads in "The Field" and almost daily advertisements in the major London newspapers, the major travel guides of the country and the most important sporting events of the year, to Rigg's tiny advertisements in the "Essex Newsman," the "Chelmsford Chronicle" and the Bracon, Wales County papers

Riggs allegedly remained in business until 1966 (not confirmed – although eyewitnesses remember walking into the sporting goods store in the early 1960’s and seeing only a few BSA air-guns).

======= *94 Charles Riggs era, August 1922-1950? END TEXT =======
========== *95 Conclusion TEXT ==========

*95 Conclusion:

Over the course of 90 years the Reilly's sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1828 to 1912, all built by them. The guns that they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. Reilly was one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was in a unique style and consistently classy. Reilly's best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.

Gene Williams, Sep 05, 2018; last updated Apr 28, 2022

======== *95 Conclusion END HISTORY ========
THIS PROJECT IS NOW FINISHED:

. . . . .I. The case for Reilly making his own guns, 33,000 of them over 90 years, and being heavily involved in all aspects of UK London gun making, wholesaling, retailing, and promoting in the 19th century has been made and documented, all based on original primary sources:
. . . . . . .-- The original history is on p.54 .
. . . . . . .-- The SN gun dating chart is attached on p.54 with complete footnotes on "why" and "how"; One cannot begin to write a history until the dates of the guns are understood.
. . . . . . .-- The list of known Reilly guns and extant guns is on p.57 with the footnotes also attached.
. . . . . . .-- The label date chart was on p.49, half of it now disappeared.
There is not much more which can be discovered. Case rested.

. . . . .II. For those who do not believe this history, it’s time to lay out your case. Analyses of holes in the above research are not needed. Rather what is needed for history is evidence which supports the belief, which somehow became established in the late 20th century, that Reilly was only a retailer:
. . . . . . .-- Please post the source(s) of information on the origin of this claim - that "Reilly was only a retailer from c1828 to 1912," or any evidence which backs this up.
. . . . . . .-- Was any attempt made to verify this - or was it just accepted as an "oral legend truth"?
. . . . . . .-- If any research to confirm this assertion was done, please post the 19th century documents which support it.

Based on the responses to the above, gun historians can decide which version of Reilly history has credibility.

(Edit: A week later and no responses so far; There in fact may be no academic references at all to this claim; I certainly can't find anything except for early 21st century message boards, a very few catalog descriptions and a few articles. This whole theory may just be word of mouth rumor started in the 4th quarter of the 20th century!

So could some of the advocates of this claim that Reilly was only a retailer for 90 years in the 19th century at least tell the board who they first heard this from and why they believed it. Thanks for history's sake...

edit: a month later - crickets. Apparently there is nothing to post and this oral legend can be consigned to the scrap heap.)


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Final thoughts:

1) There are a few sources that might still be tapped for additional information on Reilly:
. . . . .—Reilly prices lists and catalogs were advertised for 60 years. At least one is in a UK collection
. . . . .—UK business anthologies might shed more light on the company’s organization.
. . . . .—“Worshipful Company of Gunmakers” in London will have info on Reilly guns being proofed week by week.
. . . . .—Some sort of patent royalty payment records might still turn up.
. . . . .—French government archives will solve the mystery of rue du Faubourg.

But nothing more will be posted unless something definitive is uncovered. (The extant gun list on p.57 will be updated regularly).

2) Finally, the failure of jpgbox.com was a bitter blow. 5 years of meticulous documentation wiped out overnight for the 3rd time. I have the reference footnotes on my computer but they are no longer available to the casual researcher on-line. Dave should consider putting in his own photo hosting software. I won’t be putting up any more historical posts only to see them GWTW.

Gene Williams. April 28, 2022.
I said I wouldn't post on this line but I guess I want to run a test. This E.M. Reilly just sold on Guns International for $3,850. After carefully reading the above line, anyone want to have a go at analysis of the gun and label? Was it worth the price? Would the buyer have bought it had he absorbed what was posted here?
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-lots-of-condition-.cfm?gun_id=101927364

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I will need some help on how to post an image direct from imgur.
To post directly on Imgur, click on to the photo you want to post, select large thumbnail from the list on the lower right, hit the "Copy" button next to the picture you want to post, then right click and paste in the body of your message where you want the photo to appear.
Gene,

It bears 1904 to 1925 Birmingham proof marks and with that serial number is clearly a Riggs-Reilly.

As 13/1 it should measure .719” (+?). As the bores are now .728” it has clearly been honed since proof and is now marginal even though the wall thicknesses are good.

Either the case has been re-labelled or it is from an earlier Reilly gun?
Excellent Mr. Parabola. It is indeed a Riggs marketed gun made in Birmingham, SN 134481, probably mid-late 1920's. Serial Number, and half pistol grip are indicators and the engraving looks nothing like a real Reilly. And your fine explanation of the bore and rebore are beyond my ken.

The label and the case are not original to the gun. The label is the 16, New Oxford Street label with 29 rue du Faubourg, Paris address. It has the 1867 Paris exposition gold medals in the left corner and the 1884 London Exposition Gold medal on the right corner. This label probably was used from late 1884 to 1885-86. We have yet to establish when rue du Faubourg opened and closed (or if it even existed).
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(see paragraph *81, p.91 above)(Again it's a shame the label chart disappeared. I'll find a way to repost it via imgur).

The interesting thing about this label as opposed to the 5 or 6 other examples is that this one has scolloped corners a la classic Reilly.

A+ grade. (My job here is done!!). (and I would not have paid anywhere near that price for the gun - it's a ÂŁ200-ÂŁ400 gun in UK).

Here is the original Holt's advertisement last fall: Estimate ÂŁ300-500
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.c...++5899C&refno=++166839&saletype=
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Gene,

I don’t think this one is on your list yet. It is clearly an Anson and Deeley (note flat action sides) and not a Facile Princeps variation like mine. It has Wesley Richards style top lever work.
Thank you sir; it is added to the chart on p.57. 30487 dates to Feb 1889. It must still have an A&D patent use number on it. Here are two others from that time period: Reilly SN 30768 with Patent use # 8245 is the last known Reilly with such a number. It is dated by my chart to Late summer 1889.....A&D patent expired September 1889.

30446 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford street, London. 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. BLE, doll's head W-R type top-lever; 30" Damascus. AD Patent use #7156
30456 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Top lever Box lock. AD Patent use # not mentioned
30487 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford street, London. 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. BLE, doll's head W-R type top-lever; 30" Steel.AD Patent use # not mentioned
30768- E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. A&D patent use #8245. (A&D Patent expired Sep 1889)
Using Imgur following is a recreation and updated version of the Reilly label list for historians:

1. Summer 1828- Aug 1835;
Name: J.C. Reilly?
Description: Gun Maker”?
Address: Holborn Bars aka 12 Middle Row, Holborn.
Name: presumably J.C. Reilly per advertisements. Label unknown – no extant examples

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|. . . . . . . . . . . . .NO EXAMPLES. . . . . . . .. . . . . . |
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2. Aug 1835- Mar 1847 ;
Name: Joseph Charles Reilly.
Description: Gun Maker
Address: 316 High Holborn.

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3. Mar 1847 – Nov 1847;
Name: Joseph Charles Reilly;
Description: Gun Maker
Address: 502 New Oxford Street, London.
Feature: See “REMOVED FROM HOLBORN” used Apr 1847-Nov 1847 in advertisements

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4. Circa Dec 1847 – Circa 1856 (possibly August);
Name: Reilly,
Description: Gun Maker
Address: 502, New Oxford Street, London
Features: Sketch of 502 New Oxford Street; Scolloped corners; Ships to the Universe

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5. Circa 1856 (possibly August) – March 1859;
Name: Reilly,
Description: Gun Maker
Address: 502, New Oxford Street, London
Features: “Fusils a Bascule”; “Improved Breech Loaders”; Medals from 1851 and 1855 World fair expositions in London and Paris; Sketch of 502 New Oxford Street; scolloped corners; Ships to the Globe

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6. Mar 1859 – Apr 1861
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.;
Description: Gun Makers
Address: No. 502 New Oxford Street, London
Features: Sketch of 502 New Oxford Street; Medals won in 1851 and 1855; Improved Breech Loaders; scolloped corners.

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7. Aug 1858 – Mar 1859
Name: Reilly’s
Description:
Address: No. 315, Oxford Street, London
. . . . . . .Principle establishment, 502, New Oxford Street
Features: “Armoury House”; Fusils a Bascule; Shooting gallery target motif; retangular shape. NOTE: This is allegedly from a “reproduction label.” However, no original examples are extant, nor are there extant reproduction labels of this sort. It had to have come from an original.

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8. Mar 1859 – Apr 1861;
Name: E.M Reilly & Co.
Description:
Address: No. 315, Oxford Street, London
. . . . . . .Principal establishment at 502 New Oxford St.
Features: “Gun Manufactury”; “Improved double and single breech loaders; 1851 & 1855 Exhibition medals; scolloped corners

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9. Apr 1861 – Feb 1868 and on to circa Nov 1881
Name: E.M Reilly & Co.;
Description: Gun Manufacturers
Address: 502, New Oxford Street, London
Features: See advertising scroll work at the bottom of the label which did not change until circa 1885; scolloped corners; subtle border outlining.

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10. Feb 1868 – Nov 1872 and on to Nov 1881
Name: E.M Reilly & Co.,
Description: Gun Manufacturers
Address: 502, New Oxford Street, London; branch establishments:
. . . . . . . . .315 Oxford Street; and
. . . . . . . . .2, rue Scribe, Paris.
Features: Medals won at the 1867 Paris Universelle exhibition (Napoleon III profile). Subsequent labels sometimes did not feature branch addresses.

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11. Feb 1868 – 1870
Name: E.M Reilly & Co.,
Description: Breech Loading Gun & Rifle Manufacturers
Address: 315, Oxford Street, London also
. . . . . . . . .2, rue Scribe, Paris
Features: By Special appointment to the emperor Napoleon III. Used in pistols cases only

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12. Circa 1876 – Nov 1881 and possibly until Jul 1885; - Standard label
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.;
Description: Gun Manufacturers
Address: 315, Oxford Street, London;
. . . . . . . . .502, New Oxford Street
. . . . . . . . .2 rue Scribe, Paris
Features: No scollops at corners. No outlining. Simpler advertising at the bottom.

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13. Circa 1876 – 1877; - Outlier label - 2 examples
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.;
Descriptiom: Gun & Rifle Manufacturers
. . . . . . . . . . . . Wholesale & Retail
Address: 502, New Oxford Street, London
. . . . . . . . .2, rue Scribe, Paris
Features: No scollops at corners. 1867 Paris medals. “By Special Appointment to his Majesty the King of Portugal.”

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14. Circa 1878 – 1882; - Outlier label?
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.;
Descriptiom: Gun & Rifle Manufacturers
Address: 315, Oxford Street, London
Features: Scollops at corners. Decorative capitals. One example.

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15. Circa 1878 – 1882; - Outlier label?
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.;
Descriptiom: Gun & Rifle Manufacturers
Address: 502, New Oxford Street, London
Features: No Scollops at corners. Decorative capitals. One example used on a muzzle loader that was altered to an U-L breech loader about 1880.

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16. circa Nov 1881- circa Aug 1885? - standard Label
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.,
Description: Gun Manufacturers
Address: 16, New Oxford St. &
. . . . . . . . .277, Oxford St &
. . . . . . . . .2, rue Scribe, Paris
Features: Post Nov 1881 change in Oxford St numbering. Pre-closure of 2 rue Scribe in Aug 1885. 1868 Paris medals; Standard scroll work from Aug 1860

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17. circa 1882- circa Aug 1885?
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.,
Description: Gun Manufacturers
Address: 277, New Oxford St. &
. . . . . . . . .16 Oxford St &
. . . . . . . . .2 rue Scribe, Paris
Features: No examples currently exist. It’s possible (though unlikely) that 277 (315) Oxford St. used “315” up until 2 rue Scribe closed.
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|. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .London . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
|. . Principle establishment: 16, New Oxford Street .|
|. . . . . . . . . . . .2, rue Scribe, Paris. . . . . . . . . . .|
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18. circa 1884- circa 1885? - Outlier label? 2 examples
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.,
Description: Gun & Rifle Manufacturers
. . . . . . . . . . . .Wholesale & Retail
Address: 16, New Oxford St., London;
. . . . . . . . .2, rue Scribe Paris
Features: Outlier label, 2 examples: 3 kings, Portugal, Netherlands, Spain.

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19. circa 1885- circa 1886? - 6 examples
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.,
Description: Gun Manufacturers
Address: 16, New Oxford St. &
. . . . . . . . .277 Oxford St &
. . . . . . . . .29 rue du Faubourg, Saint Honore, Paris
Features: Post Nov 1881 change in Oxford St numbering. No rue Scribe (post Aug 1885). 1868 Paris medal; Medal for 1884 London Exposition; Different advertising scroll work, similar to post 1885 main-line Reilly label change. There is one extant label with scolloped corners. Whether the shop at rue du Faubourg actually existed is still in dispute:

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20. Circa Aug 1885 – May 1897 - Standard label
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.,
Description: Gun Manufacturers
Address: 16, New Oxford Street, London: &
. . . . . . . . .277 Oxford Street
Feature: 1867 Paris medals reappear; 1884 London Exposition; no rue Scribe; New advertising scroll work on bottom of the label.

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21. Circa Aug 1885 – May 1897 - Standard Label

Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.,
Description: Gun Manufacturers
Address: 277 Oxford Street; also
. . . . . . . . .16, New Oxford Street
Features: No rue Scribe (post Aug 1885); Oxford St. numbers changed (post Nov 1881); Change in advertising inscription at bottom of the label.

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22. Circa May 1897 – Mar 1903
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.,
Description: Gun Manufacturers
Address: 277, Oxford St., London
Features: Four medals (1871-Vienna; 1876-Philadelphia; 1878-Paris; 1884-London)

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23. Circa Mar 1903 – Jun 1912
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co.,
Description: Gun Manufacturers
Address: 277/295, Oxford St., London
Features: Four medals (1871-Vienna; 1876-Philadelphia; 1878-Paris; 1884/5-London Int Inventions. Label repurposed by strikeouts. New labels unknown.

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24. Circa 1912 – Aug 1922
Name: Charles Riggs
Description: “Gun and Rife Makers”
. . . . . . . . . . . .”Sports Equipment”
Address: 107, Bishop’s Gate, London
Features: -- Before the August 1922 purchase of the E.M. Reilly & Co. name

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= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Easy reference chart:

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Circa 1861; E.M. Reilly & Co.; Gun Manufacturers; 502 New Oxford Street

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Presentation Case labels:

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1862: Presentation case for 12532, the Gold washed muzzle loader displayed at the 1862 London Exposition and bought by the Prince of Wales. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford Street.

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1871: Post Feb 1868: E.M. Reilly & Co., 502 New Oxford and 2 rue Scribe Paris. Gun Manufacturers.

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1880: Case made for the shotgun/rifle combination for King of Spain in 1880; E.M. Reilly &Co. 502 New Oxford Street: & rue Scribe Paris: Description: Gun and Rifle Manufacturers:

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1890: Format for seven extant cases, all in blue velvet, all with gold lettering on the blue velvet or on leather, all with Gun & Rifle Makers:

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. . . . .CONTENTS

Prologue . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7
Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9

I. Holborn Bars : 1814 -1835. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10
. . .1. Beginnings
. . .2. 1828: First Guns Made at 12 Middle Row, Holborn (Holborn Bars), London
. . .3. Reilly Business Model
. . .4. 1831: Reilly "Gun Maker"

II. 316 High Holborn: 1835 – 1847. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16
. . .5. August 1835: Move to 316 High Holborn-Street
. . .6. 1837: End of Serial Numbered Pistols
. . .7. August 1840: Company Name Changes to "Reilly; Gun Maker”
. . .8. 1840's: Air-guns

III. 502 New Oxford Street: 1847 - 1857. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .22
. . .9. March 1847: Move to 502 New Oxford-Street
. . .10. April-November 1847: Change in Trade Label
. . .11. 1847: Change in the Main-Line Numbering Chronology - 3350 Jumps to 8350
. . .12. 1846-1857: J.C. Reilly 7000 Series Numbering Chronology
. . .13. 1840-1856: Outlier J.C. Serial Numbered Guns
. . .14. Hypothetical J.C. "5500" Serial Number Series Early/mid 1840's
. . .15. December 1847 - 1856: New Label for 502 New Oxford-Street
. . .16. Reilly in the early 1850's: Company Organization
. . .17. 1851 - late 1880's: Reilly 300 Yard Outdoor Shooting Range
. . .18. 1851: Crystal Palace Exposition – the Lefaucheaux Revelation
. . .19. Reilly in the early 1850's: Custom Made Guns and Munitions
. . .20. 1855: Reilly Numbering Bore Sizes Before the 1855 Proof Law
. . .21. 1855: Paris Exposition Universelle
. . .22. September 1857: J.C. Reilly Retires; January 1864 He Passed Away

IV: Break Action Guns in UK: 1854 – 1860. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36
. . .23. 1852-1856: Break Action, Pin-Fire Guns in UK., PART 1, Hodges & Lang
. . .24. 1852-1856: Break Action, Pin-Fire Guns in UK., PART 2, Reilly & Blanch
. . .25. 1856: Reilly Begins Building Break Action Pin-Fire Guns
. . .26. Mid-1856: Trade/Case Label Changes
. . .27. 1856-1858: Reilly Extant Break Action Pin-Fire Guns
. . .28. 1858-1860: Reilly Develops and Trials Break Action Pin-Fire Guns
. . .29. Observation re "Retailer" vs "Gunmaker" from an Analysis of Extant 1856-58 Reilly Pin-fires

V: Reilly Supports Rifle Innovation: 1854 – 1860. . . . . . . . . . . . .49
. . .30. 1853-1860: Reilly Building Innovative Military Grade Muzzle Loading Rifles
. . . . . . . .1. 1853 Enfield- Rifle-Musket
. . . . . . . .2. General Jacob’s Rifle
. . . . . . . .3. English Schuetzen Percussion Target Rifle
. . .31. 1855-1860: Other Breech-loader Rifles and New Innovations by Reilly
. . . . . . . .1. Terry Patent breech loaders
. . . . . . . .2. Prince Patent Breech Loader
. . . . . . . .3. Westley-Richards “Monkey Tail” Breech Loader. – a Non-event

VI: Reilly 1858 – 1862. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .56
. . .32. August 1858: Opening of 315 Oxford-Street - New Label
. . .33. The Shooting Gallery at 315 Oxford Street
. . .34. August 1858 - April 1861: Four Changes in the Company Name
. . . . . . . .1. “Reilly & Co., Gun Makers” - August 1858 - March 1859
. . . . . . . .2. “E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Makers” - March 1859 – August 1860
. . . . . . . . . . . -- NEW LABEL: 502 New Oxford St
. . . . . . . . . . . -- NEW LABEL: 315 Oxford Street
. . . . . . . .3. “E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturer” (singular) - August 1860 – April 1861
. . . . . . . .4. “E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturers" (plural)” - April 1861
. . . . . . . . . . . -- NEW LABEL
.. . . . . . . . . . .-- PRESENTATION LABEL
. . .35. 1859–1900: Reilly Selling to Yeomanry Militia & Gun Clubs at Wholesale Prices
. . .36. 1860-1861: Reilly’s In-House Guns; Using Others’ Patents; Royalty Payments; Making Guns Under License

VII. Characteristics of Reilly guns and products. . . . . . . . . . . . . 63
. . .37. Comments on Reilly Stocks
. . . . . . . .1. French Walnut Stocks:
. . . . . . . .2. In-House Stock Maker
. . . . . . . .3. Straight English stocks for Shotguns Except Big-bore Fowlers
. . . . . . . .4. Pistol Grip for Rifles
. . .38. 1828-1900: Reilly Engraving
. . . . . . . .1. 1820’s-1830’s: Simple “Vine and Scroll”
. . . . . . . .2. 1840’s-1850’s: “Large Scroll” or “English Scroll”
. . . . . . . .3. 1850’s-1860’s: More complex “English Scroll”
. . . . . . . .4. 1860’s” Increasingly Delicate and Intricate “Rose and Scroll”
. . . . . . . .5. 1870’s-1890’s: Tight “Rose and Scroll”
. . . . . . . .6. Wildlife Scenes
. . .39. 1828-1900; Reilly Barrels
. . . . . . . .1. London proofed
. . . . . . . .2. Bored and Finished by Reilly, 1836-47
. . . . . . . .3. Barrel Lengths
. . . . . . . .4. Damascus Patterns
. . . . . . . .5. Barrel Blanks
. . . . . . . .6. Initials on Barrels, 1870’s
. . . . . . . .7. Steel Barrels, 1882
. . .40. Non-Serial Numbered Reilly’s; Reilly Engraving and Marketing Others' Guns
. . .41. Reilly and Pistols
. . .42. Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition
. . .43. Early 1860’s: Reilly and Cutlery, Swords, Bayonets
. . .44. Reilly Accessories

VIII. 1860 – 1867 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .81
. . .45. 1850’s-1895: Reilly Staff; Quality Young Employees
. . .46. 1861: Reilly Manufacturing and Sales
. . .47. 1862: Reilly and the 1862 London Exposition
. . .48. 1863: Attempts to Curry Favor with the British Royal Family
. . .57. 1863-1865: Reilly’s Sporting Gun Business
. . .58. 1863-1873: Pin-Fire vs Center Fire
. . .59. 1866: Reilly and Purdey Kerfuffle

IX: Reilly, Arsenal and the British Army. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .93
. . .49. 1863-1872: Attempts to Win a Military Contract; Reilly Builds Military Rifles
. . .50. 1863-1868: Reilly and the Green Brothers Patent Breech Loader - Sole Manufacturer
. . .51. 1866-1870’s: Reilly Builds (Civilian) Snider-Enfields
. . .52. 1868-1870: Reilly-Comblain Breech Loaders (No Reilly SN) - Sole Manufacturer
. . .53. 1871-1890: Reilly Builds Sporting Martini-Henry Rifles (NSN)
. . .54. 1872-1912: Reilly Sells Other Military Rifles; Swinburn, Gibbs, Soper, Lee-Speed
. . .55. 1869: Explosive Bullets:
. . .56. 1856-1871: An End to Reilly's Arsenal Contract Dreams

X. Reilly - 1868 – 1880; Paris and Attempts to Expand . . . . . . . . . .109
. . .60. 1867-1870, Paris-1: Reilly Takes on Paris, Again; Gun-Maker for Napoleon III
. . .61. February 1868-1870, Paris-2: Reilly Opens 2 rue Scribe, Paris as “E.M. Reilly & Cie”
. . .62. 1868-1897 – Paris-3: New Label
. . .63. 1870 - Paris-4: Fall of Napoleon III; Reilly Prosecuted; Pro-French proclivities
. . .64. 1869-1876: Reilly and the American Market
. . .65. 1868-1876: New Labels and Descriptions
. . .66. 1875-1880: Choke Boring and New Proof Marks
. . .67. 1875-1880: Reilly Paying Royalties for Patent Uses
. . .68. 1878-1880: Paris Exposition; Situation of the Company

XI: Reilly – 1880’s. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .127
. . .69. Early 1880's: Reilly Expansion; 1881 Census; 1000 guns a year
. . .70. 1880: Reilly and the Anson & Deeley Boxlock
. . .71. 1882: Selling Off The Rack
. . .72. Nov 1881: Oxford Street Re-numbered; Change in Labels
. . .73. 1881: Spanish and Dutch Royal Connection
. . .74. 1878-81: Two outlier Trade Labels
. . .75. 1869-1890: Reilly and Pigeon Guns
. . .76. 1882: Reilly and Steel Barrels
. . .77. 1853-1882: Reilly Endorsed by Prominent Explorers and Hunters
. . .78. 1882-1885: International Expositions
. . .79. 1884-1885: Reilly Outlier Label
. . .80. July 1885: Closure of the Paris Branch
. . .81. 1885-1886: Satellite Paris Address at 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honoré
. . .82. July 1885: Change in Reilly Labels
. . .83. Reilly in the Late 1880's

XII. Death of EM Reilly; Decline and Fall 1890-1918. . . . . . . . . . .156
. . .84. 1890: Death of E.M. Reilly and Aftermath
. . .85. Characterizing the Reilly's
. . .86. Mid-1890's: Reilly’s Decline
. . .87. May 1897: Closure of 16, New Oxford Street
. . .88. 1890-1897: Label and Presentation Case Changes
. . .89. 1899: Death of Mary Ann Reilly; Bert Takes Over
. . .90. 1903-1904: Move to 295 Oxford-Street; Trade Label Update
. . .91. 1904-1912: Reilly Reduced to Finishing Guns Bought in the White?
. . .92. June 1912: Bankruptcy
. . .93. 1912-1918: 13 High Street, Marylebone

XIII. Charles Riggs Era; 1922 – 1950. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .173
. . .94. August 1922-circa 1950: Charles Riggs Era

Conclusion. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180
. . .95. Conclusion

Addendum . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 181
. . .a. Serial Number Dating Chart
. . .b. Explanation of Methodolgy:
. . . . . .1) Process
. . . . . .2) Chronological Date Markers
. . . . . .3) SN Guns Associated with Date Markers
. . . . . .4) Verification Check guns
. . . . . .5) UK Gun Patent Use Numbers Found on Reilly’s
. . .C. Dating Reference Chart for Reilly Trade Labels

================================================================


. . . . .PROLOGUE

Explanation for the research:

Reilly was a 19th century London gun-maker. He made guns for 90 years from 1828 to 1912 when the firm went bankrupt. All Reilly records were lost in the second decade of the 20th century.

By the mid-late 20th century, a half-century after Reilly's bankruptcy, a generation of gun writers had decided that Reilly was a “gun-retailer” and as such was a minor figure on the London gun scene. Gun anthologies by prominent writers in the 1970's-90's mentioned cursory histories of Reilly but without dating his guns or illuminating his manufacturing and sales operations. There appeared to be no way to validate any of the claims/observations about Reilly or little interest in doing so and the inertia of gun scholarship predominated; Gun writers and advertisers simply repeated ad infinitum the mantra that Reilly was a retailer.

In November 2015 the author bought his first Reilly, a 12 bore SxS shotgun and began to research the company using the resources of the internet. It rapidly became apparent that the histories of and commentary about Reilly were confusing and contradictory. A second look at the company was clearly needed.

The data for this Reilly history began to be compiled at that time:
-- Every extant Reilly gun found on the internet was cataloged, a list that now comprises over 620 serial numbered extant guns and hundreds of non-serial numbered, engraved and marketed long guns and pistols. Serial numbers, addresses on the ribs, patent numbers, chamber and barrel borings, stocks, proof marks, etc. were noted.
-- Every periodical advertisement for Reilly or articles mentioning Reilly in the 19th century UK press was read and archived. There were thousands.
-- Address changes or renumberings, changes in proof-markings, patent filings or expirations, patent use numbers, dates for the introduction of new cartridges, etc. were noted as serial number “date markers.”

Over 100 different topics were researched including early 19th century barrel boring techniques, engraving, gun making machinery and techniques at the time, street address systems in London, whether or not any UK gun maker used chronological patent use numbers, census data, research into Reilly employees, the beginnings of the UK center-break gun industry in the 1850’s, pigeon shooting rules and regulations, guns exhibited at worlds’ fairs, guns purchased by royals, origin of UK pin-fires, location of private shooting grounds, manufacture in London of boxlocks, etc.

A Reilly gun serial number dating graph/chart was created from this data. It’s validity was verified by numerous “sanity checks” taken from existing Reilly long-guns. This chart allowed for the dating of the case/trade labels. With the dating of the guns and trade labels came an understanding of what types of guns Reilly made and sold over the course of 90 years and the technologies available for use when the guns were numbered - a melding of extant guns with 1800's newspaper advertisements.

The history was finally written down in September 2018. It was posted on the below site for peer review and the research was continuously updated and debated as new guns and articles came to light.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436538#Post436538

The study was published in (edited) two parts in summer 2019 in Diggory Hadoke's on-line magazine "Vintage Gun Journal." It has since been added-to extensively - almost daily - and is now, without the constraints of trying to condense it onto one (internet) page, much more detailed and substantive.

The history includes analyses and some logical suppositions and conclusions. These are, however, supported by articles and advertisements and the history is solidly sourced. It corrects or updates dozens of writings on the company most of them erroneous, including Nigel Brown's Vol III, Boothroyd, and just about every article written about Reilly in the last 40 years. Footnotes are provided for each paragraph, indeed each sentence. Challenges to this research should be as well documented, not just based on "urban legend."

Attached is also the latest SN date chart which should get a Reilly owner close to the date the gun was manufactured (see the methodology and caveats in the chart footnotes) and an easy to use dating chart for the trade labels.

Clarifying comments:

. .-- The origin of the "Reilly was a retailer only" myth possibly came out of 1922:
. . . . . – Charles Riggs bought the Reilly name and put 25,000 guns on the market in 30 years, none made by him, with "E.M. Reilly & Co., London" on the ribs from 1922 to 1950.
. . . . . - A generation of gun makers grew up with this in their minds, without a reference to what Reilly was before, because by 1900, 22 years and a world war before Riggs - indeed almost 50 years before noted gun writers David Baker, Ian Crudgington, Geoffrey Boothroyd, Nigel Brown, etc., even began to work on guns as teen-aged apprentices - Reilly - the classic Reilly - was essentially toast.
. . . . . - Finally, in readng the technical expertise exhibited in E.M. Reilly’s 1847 pamphlet on air-guns or his knowledgeable comments on center-break pin-fires published in the 26 December 1857 edition of “The Field,” one understands that these men, the Reilly’s, could not have been just “retailers.”

. .-- The history occasionally goes into some depth on the status of the UK gun making industry to illustrate important points about the Reilly firm, in particular the period 1851-1859 and the origins of the UK center-break breech-loader. This may seem pedantic and at time repetitive but is important to understanding the place Reilly occupies in the UK gun-making fraternity and to refute ingrained misconceptions about Reilly. This history also addresses certain unclear points as an academic “pro-con” “debate” of sorts pending additional research.



. . . . .INTRODUCTION

The Reilly firm of gun makers in London has long been viewed as enigmatic. Confusion exists on the location of the company, its products, and even whether it actually made guns or was just a retailer. Reilly's records were lost after bankruptcy (1912) and the final shutting down of the firm (1918). This new history should resolve these mysteries and re-establish Reilly as at one time perhaps one of if not the largest of gun makers in London during the mid-1800's.


. . . . .I. HOLBORN BARS: 1814 -1835


*1 Beginnings

Joseph Charles Reilly was born in Ireland in 1786. He hailed from a well-to-do family and his family aspired for him to become a lawyer. In the mid-1800's he went to London to study - Irish Catholics could not study law in Ireland at the time. However, he had an independent streak. Instead of law school, he struck out on his own into various technical fields. (He was obviously supported by his family money in all this - he was never a "destitute student.")

He married in 1812. *1a In 1814 he opened a jewelry shop, later described as also dealing in silver-plate, *1b at 12 Middle Row, Holborn, *1c located hard by Gray’s Inn of the "Inns of the Court." He registered a silver mark "JCR" in July 1818. *1d His clientele included country gentlemen and barristers.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Note: to register a silver/gold mark required a considerable apprenticeship and noted expertise. John Campbell in his article in "Double Gun Journal," summer 2015, wrote that Reilly was also a member of the clock-makers' guild, something again requiring quite an apprenticeship. He allegedly retained his membership in this guild until the late 1820's.*1e

In 1817 his son Edward Michael was born, the third of four children.*1f He prospered, buying a country estate in Bedfordshire in 1824.

Jewelry shops in London at the time often dealt in guns, engraving and re-selling them, perhaps because of the influence of the artistic professionalism of Joseph Manton's guns at the time. *1g Some such shops called themselves "Whitesmiths." *1h

Note: Among the extant JC Reilly "jewelry" from this time period are miniature working model cannons with Damascus barrels. *1i Yet, he did indeed deal in jewelry: a list of stolen goods from the Reilly shop in January 1831 included, rings, necklaces, bracelets, etc. - normal stuff for the métier. *1j


*2 1828: First Guns Made at 12 Middle Row, Holborn (Holborn Bars), London

Reilly’s first noted registration for a hunting license is in 1823.*2a This was no small thing. “Gentlemen” were expected to be involved with guns and to fund a license. No gunmaker in London was regarded as a "gentlemen," yet those who aspired to be, followed suit. Lang, for instance, highlighted his having held such a license for 30 years (from 1827) in a pamphlet he wrote in January 1857 promoting center-break guns.*2b Reilly's license may have predated Lang's by 4 years.

Reilly was not mentioned in an 1825 book which listed London gunmakers (Instructions to a Young Sportsman, Fourth Edition by Ltc P. Hawker). However, shortly thereafter he made a decision to get into the gun making business. Sometime around summer 1828 he numbered his first Reilly built gun which presumably was "01." The serial numbered guns included pistols, rifles and shotguns.

The address on his guns during this period was "Holborn Bars." 12 Middle Row was at "Holborn Bars." "Bars" shows the area was one of the old tax stations for entering London.

The date for the beginning of gun making by Reilly is supported by London newspaper advertisements:
-- Ads from summer 1828 and summer 1829 make it clear he was making guns for clients - and urging customers not to spend money for a "name.”*2c
-- An advertisement for hunting dogs from 22 August 1829, “Morning Chronicle” specifically identified Reilly as a “gun maker.”*2d
-- By 1830 he was advertising “very superior guns of his own make,” which he maintained were as good as guns twice as expensive, without actually using the word “gun maker.”*2e
-- The January 1831 report on the burglary at Reilly’s jewelry shop states he was a “gun maker” as well as silversmith.*2f
-- Reilly's first advertisements for guns using the word "gunmaker" are in spring 1831.*2g

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Note: Reilly appears to have been amongst the first London gun makers to begin to advertise in the mass popular press, possibly preceded only by Lang. Few gun ads from rival makers can be found in 1820’s-early 1830’s newspapers.

Following are the earliest known Reilly serial numbered guns:

-- SN 88 - a pair of .50 cal. percussion dueling pistols with J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London engraved on the hexagonal Damascus barrels; These are the oldest extant Reillys owned by a UK gentleman with records of purchase dated to the late 1820's; they are dated circa early 1829 on this study's dating chart. *2g

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

-- SN 162 - 1829 the earliest extant Reilly-made long gun; It is a single barrel 6 bore muzzle loader wild-fowler, J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London engraved on the barrel, also made circa 1829. *2h

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

-- SN 176 - 1829 - also a pair of .50 cal. percussion pistols, almost identical to SN 88 above with J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London; These are the third oldest existing serial numbered J.C. Reilly guns and are also dated late 1829. *2i

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

-- SN 254 - 1830 - Several early 21st century articles including an article by Terry Weiland mention a J.C. Reilly percussion pistol SN 254 as the (then) lowest known Reilly SN. It would date to 1829 per this chart. However, no photos or additional information can be found about this "phantom" legendary pistol. (The "press" unfortunately tends to copy and repeat with no verification of the initial veracity.)


*3 Reilly Business Model:

JC Reilly early on adopted a business model which did not change during the life of the firm: i.e. provide a quality hand-made product for a moderate price, deliver it rapidly, and "make what would sell." *3a

Reilly was never an innovator - he was a businessman first and a technician/engineer second. But, with this model, and especially with the rise of EM, with his family connections to the gun trade, his ability to recognize a winning or commercially interesting invention or patent, and his flexibility enabling him to produce new products and abandon old ways, Reilly undercut more expensive and better known makers and made his profit on volume.

Reilly dealt in used guns taken on trade and sold guns under license.*3b However, he only serial numbered guns he built and he numbered his guns consecutively for 90 years with certain exceptions during the move to New Oxford-Street in 1847. Reilly had extensive finishing facilities in his large London buildings and no doubt stockpiled locks (and later after 1855 actions) and barrel blanks from outworkers to allow him to meet orders three times as quickly as his competitors.
. . .-- Example: Ads from the 1850’s in spring of each year consistently stated that Reilly had 100 guns in various stages of manufacture which were available for custom fitting and engraving; these guns were not previously ordered but were “speculation guns” stockpiled for expected customers based on anticipated demand. These ads state outright that this had been the company business practice for "more than 20 years." *3c
. . .-- Caveat: Around 1881 Reilly most likely changed some of the parameters of the company' business model; He probably begun using actions (A&D boxlocks for starters) from Birmingham bought "in the white" and finished in London.


*4 1831: Reilly "Gun Maker"

The first Reilly gun probably was serial numbered in 1828 while Reilly still presented himself primarily as a jeweler. However, it soon became clear that, though jewelry continued to be marketed, Reilly was now committed to making guns. From 1831 on Reilly identified himself solely as "Gun-Maker" in his ads. This fact was widely reported in the British press at the time, an 1835 book on guns and shooting being an example.*4d.

His gun advertisements in 1831 targeted “gentlemen going abroad” and offered special rates to “country dealers” ordering his guns.*4e There are indications that during the early 1830's he was making guns "in the white" for the London trades as well. A Reilly hammer found on an 1835 James Beattie gun, and the similarity of that gun to known Reilly long guns, leads to this possible conclusion.*4f For an entrepreneur who had began making guns only a few years earlier, this is an impressive expansion of his manufacturing capability and his marketing/retailing.

Note: Reilly continued to deal in jewelry for awhile. In London directories he is mentioned as a jeweler up to 1835.*4g He apparently continued to make “jewelry” of a type afterwards which included miniature cannons and guns; J.C. Reilly exhibited small brass mortar models at an exhibition in 1845.*4h

Note: 70 years later as Reilly fortunes began to wane, J.C. Reilly's grandson advertised the firm as "established 1835." This history knows more than the grandson did.*4i


. . . . .II. 316 HIGH HOLBORN: 1835 – 1847


*5 August 1835: Move to 316 High Holborn-Street:

In August 1835 JC Reilly with 17 year old EM as an apprentice moved to 316 High Holborn Street.*5a

The building no longer exists but from the size of the current building, and a map of the plot as it existed in the 19th century, it was probably quite substantial.*5b The average house in the area from lithograph prints at the time indicate it was probably a four or five story walk-up. (There is a good chance that a photo exists of the building per below located after extensive map study and analysis.)*5c

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

J.C. owned several houses and may have lived at a different address than 316 High Holborn per his wil.l*5d He may have resided on occasion in other apartments. The 1841 census, however, recorded the entire family including E.M. as present at 316 High Holborn.*5e.

The first serial numbered extant gun with the High Holborn address is SN 1024, an 8.5mm pocket pistol, Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London on the gun.*5f

Advertisements from the 1840’s show the shop had a small shooting gallery where air guns and hand guns could be tested.*5g


*6 1837: End of Serial Numbered Pistols:

By circa 1837 pistols were no longer numbered in the Reilly chronological numbering system although in the 1839 edition of "Pigot’s London Directory" J.C. Reilly is still listed as “Gun and Pistol Maker.”*6a His serial numbered guns seemed to be limited to bespoke long-guns made to order.

The last serial numbered pistol so far found is SN 1292, a 120 bore (.32 Cal.), pocket pistol with a steel barrel.*6b (This style of Reilly pocket pistol is almost ubiquitous - dozens are extant ranging from the most ornate cased in mahogany and silver encrusted to the mundane. It was obviously a best seller. However, none after SN 1292 are serial numbered).*6c.

J.C. Reilly also continued to "make" big-bore percussion pistols at 316 High Holborn, at least one of them remarkably similar to SN 88 and SN 174.*6d However, none of these later productions have serial numbers.*6e


*7 August 1840: Company Name Changes to "Reilly":

In August 1840 the firm's name in advertisements changed from J.C. Reilly to just "Reilly," which may mark the advent of 23 year old EM as a full partner in the company.*7a EM is listed in the 1841 census as living with J.C. and his occupation, like that of J.C. was "Gun maker."*7b

The names on the gun ribs after 1840 continued to be "J.C. Reilly" or "Joseph Charles Reilly."*7c

Case/Trade labels were styled like an embossed business card with "Joseph Charles Reilly"; Gun Maker: *7d

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Several guns from this period survive including the following:
. . . . .SN 1174 - c1836: 8 bore. Fowling piece; Percussion single shot*7e
. . . . .SN 1869 - c1840: 10 bore Shotgun; SxS; hammer gun, muzzle loader*7f
*8 1840's: Air-guns:

JC Reilly during this period also became known for his air cane guns. Air guns had been around for years. Lewis & Clark carried one on their expedition across America.*8a Manton made one in the 1820's. However, around 1840 they became extremely popular and just about every gun-maker advertised them. Young EM was billed as the expert and was so mentioned in advertisements for the next 8 years, identified as "Reilly Junr."*8b

In 1847 EM wrote a widely disseminated pamphlet on air guns. It is mostly an advertising brochure highlighting the company's ability to produce all sorts of air-guns and parts - but also going into air pressures they achieved in the air chambers and other technical aspects of the guns. It is cited to this day. The pamphlet title page noted the author was "Reilly junr," used the (new as of March, 1847) 502 New Oxford Street address and included the phrase "Removed from Holborn" (key identifiers for the April-November 1847 time period). *8c

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The earliest Reilly trade-case label known (for 316 High Holborn Street) came out of an air-gun case, not surprising since it was undoubtedly not carried out into muddy fields.

It appears that Reilly did not serial number air guns even though the company manufactured and made the guns (similar to post 1837 hand-guns). This said there is one air-gun with a serial number 7801 with J.C. Reilly’s name on it. This appears to be a legitimate JC “7000” series number (used from 1846 to 1857).*8d

A collage of extant Reilly air guns dating from the 1830’s to the 1880’s is pictured below:*8e.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Reilly became so associated with air-guns that his name was mentioned in various fiction "who-done-its,*8f, *8g and may have been a prototype for the Sherlock Holmes short story "The Empty House" by Arthur Conan Doyle.*8h

Interesting fact: Apparently by 1843 E.M. Reilly (Reilly, Jnr) had joined the Freemasons. An advertisement in “The Freemason” from 1843 identified him as “Brother Reilly Junr.”*8i He was also a practicing Catholic who contributed substantially to the local Catholic church.*8j There is a contradiction in this; Catholics were automatically excommunicated for being associated with Freemasons. How EM reconciled this is unknown. Reilly's Catholic faith and his Irish origin was to play against the family over the years.


. . . . .III. 502 NEW OXFORD STREET: 1847 - 1857


*9 March 1847: Move to 502 New Oxford-Street

In late March 1847 Reilly moved from High Holborn to 502 New Oxford Street, a large edifice also called the "Elizabethan buildings" on a new extension of Oxford Street.*9a

The building was not more than a few hundred yards from his two previous workshops at 12 Middle Row and 316 High Holborn; Reilly was attached to this neighborhood apparently.
. . . . .Attached an 1890 plat map on New Oxford Street with location of 502.*9a(1)
. . . . .Attached a sketch of 502 New Oxford Street from the subsequent Reilly trade label.*9c(1)
. . . . .Attached photo of current New Oxford Street with outline of the former 502.*9c(2)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

With this move, Reilly demonstrated another trait of his business acumen, i.e. "location." The new road provided access to the center of London from the wealthy West End suburbs. He always chose prestigious, high-traffic locations for his stores.

-- Comment: the story of the extension of Oxford Street has also to do with slum clearing. This area was a notorious pit of crime, rabbit warren streets and poverty known as "the Rookery" in the Charles Dickens era and road building apparently was a way for the government to solve the public problem. "The building of New Oxford Street together with the later reconstruction of Shaftsbury Avenue through other notorious parts of St. Giles began the reclamation of this long infamous area for respectability," *9b

The building was quite large, 5 stores and at least an estimated 8,000 square feet of space for retail, manufacturing, and for a homestead on the top floor. For a gun-maker in London, this was an enormous space - guns in London were being made in shops at the time the size of a kitchen.

The nature of the London gun business needs some explanation:

. . . . .-- It was always concentrated into small, sometimes tiny, workshops and buildings. Purpose built “factories” as one would normally recognize such as some of the large firms in Birmingham, did not exist in London until Holland&Holland built their factory in the 1890’s. At this time, the late 1840’s, Reilly operated his “factory” out of 502 (later renumbered "16") New Oxford Street, and 11 years later from a second factory at 315 (later 277) Oxford Street).

. . . . .-- As an example of the type of workshop common in London, Purdey operated for 60 years from a building at 314 ½ Oxford Street (actually 314 & 315), where he had his showroom, fitting rooms, administrative offices and his workshops.*9d
. . . . . . . . .- Attached London 1890 map plat of Oxford Street.*9d(1)
. . . . . . . . .- London Postal Directory of 1882 with old and new numbering.*9d(2)
. . . . . . . . .- 1885 photo or Oxford Street with both 277 and Purdey's 314 1/2 in the background. Building height is considerably higher than today. EM Reilly's son fell from the top floor of 277 in 1895, a distance of 50'.*9d(3)
. . . . . . . . .- Google earth photo of Purdey's 314 1/2 Oxford Street today.*9d(4)

. . . . .-- A second example is 22 Cockspur Street where Lang had his workshop from 1852-1872. This was where the first UK pin-fire center-break gun was made. Lang previously had a 21 yard shooting gallery as well as access to two billiard tables until his move to Cocksure Street.*9e
. . . . .Attached map plate of 22 Cockspur Street with shooting gallery.*9e(1)
. . . . .Attached photo of 22 Cockspur Street.*9e(2)

. . . . .—Finally, It was quite common for gunmakers to live on the premises of their gun shops. Reilly certainly did this from at least 1835 to 1903 per the annual UK census. As a further example attached is a bankruptcy announcement for Joseph Manton from 1826 showing that his house was on Hanover Square, adjoining at the back to several workshops which gave onto 315 Oxford Street.*9f


*10 April-November 1847: Change in Trade Label

From April 1847 to November 1847 the trade label kept the form of the old High Holborn case label format but with the 502 New Oxford Street, London address and a note that the firm had "Removed from Holborn." *10a. Two versions exist:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Note: Reilly used the phrase "Removed from Holborn" in advertisements after the move from April 1847 to November 1847. By December 1847 it had disappeared from his ads.*10b, *10c


*11 1847: Change in the Main-Line Numbering Chronology - 3350 Jumps to 8350

At the time of the move the main serial number chronology for Reilly long-guns was jumped up 5000 numbers from about SN 3350 to begin anew at around 8350 (called for simplicity the "8350" series). The name on serial numbered guns after the move ultimately became simply "Reilly" with exceptions.

. . .-- SN 3329 - SN'd in 1847 is the last extant gun made at High Holborn. It is a 10 gauge SxS percussion rifle with Joseph Charles Reilly, 316 High Holburn, London on the rib. *11a

. . .-- SN 8378 - May 1847 is the first extant main-line SN'd gun from the new building, a SxS 12 bore muzzle-loading shotgun. It has "J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London" on the rib. The original label in the old High Holborn case label format has the 502 New Oxford Street, London address and notes the firm had "Removed from Holborn." *11b

. . .-- SN 8463 - Dec 1847 is the first extant SN'd gun in the new series with only "Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London." The gun is a .390 cal SxS muzzle loader rifle, also with "Removed from Holborn" on the label.*11c

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


*12 1846-1857: J.C. Reilly 7000 Series Numbering Chronology

Preceding this move to New Oxford Street, around early 1846, perhaps anticipating the (planned) change in the main serial number chronology, J.C. Reilly appears to have kept a series of numbers for himself, called for simplicity the J.C. "7000" series. He numbered about 1200 guns over the next 11 years in this series beginning around SN 7000 and ending around 8200 when he retired in 1857.

JC Reilly sometimes (but not always) put his full name or initials on the ribs of these serial numbers but with the 502 New Oxford Street address; yet the trade/case labels with "Reilly" as the firm's name and the advertisements/publicity remained the same for the "8350 main-line series and the J.C. "7000" series.

. . .-- SN 7021 - 1846, is the first extant SN'd gun in the JC "7000" series, a 20 bore single barrel boy’s percussion shotgun. It has " Reilly, London" on the barrel and was probably numbered in early 1846.*12a

. . .-- SN 7023 - 1846, is the second extant SN'd gun in the JC "7000" series, an 11 bore SxS percussion shotgun. It has "J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London" on the rib and was probably numbered in early 1846.*12b

. . .-- SN 7201 - Sep 1847, a .577 percussion single barrel rifle, was the first in the J.C. 7000 series with the new "Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London" address on the barrel, probably numbered around September 1847. It has the old style "J.C. Reilly" trade label with the new 502 New Oxford Street address and also with "Removed from Holborn." *12c

. . .-- SN 8186 - Aug 1857 is the last extant gun in the 7000 series (no doubt made in late summer 1857). It's an elegant .650 mimi ball single barrel muzzle-loader rifle engraved Reilly, New Oxford Street, London, with "Vini, Vidi, Vici" on the barrel (see below). *12d

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


*13 Outlier J.C. serial numbered guns, 1840-1856

There are existing outlier SN'd guns associated with JC which originally did not fit any sort of pattern given the disconnect between type of guns, the SN's and the addresses on their ribs. However, analysis indicates all 5 actually are part of known Reilly serial number progressions:

. . .-- SN 4573 - c1840-41, a 7 gauge, smoothbore, short single barrel, dangerous game gun with "J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London" on the barrel. The gun appears to be from the 1841-42 timeframe. It may well be part of an as yet not fully understood "5000" series discussed below. *13a

. . .-- SN 2008 - c1840, a 14 bore SxS muzzle-loader shotgun with "Joseph Charles Reilly, New Oxford Street, London" on the rib and per below bore size stamped on the barrel. The address would date it between April 1847 to circa September 1857 when J.C. retired; The gun, however, looks to be late 1840's. There is a chance that this gun was actually numbered in 1840 as part of the main-line numbering series and the barrel was re-engraved when it was brought in for maintenance after 1847.*13b

. . .-- SN 3007 - c1845, Reilly U-L pin-fire SxS Shotgun: E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford Street, London on the rib. Birmingham proofs on the barrel. It is possible this was an original percussion gun from 1845 updated to pin-fire by Reilly sometime after 315 Oxford Street opened in August 1858. (There is another Reilly percussion gun SN 10354 from 1857 which was converted to an U-L center-break gun in 1878 per documentation). It has been re classified as an 1845 gun. *13c

. . .-- SN 3402 - c1847 E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford St., London & rue Scribe, Paris. .58 cal. SxS rifle; 4 grove twist. Hammer gun, muzzle loader. (E.M. Reilly label on the original case). The address is post Feb 1868. But this gun per serial number should have been numbered originally in 1847 as part of the "3350" series. It may have been serviced and re-engraved post 1868, or a new barrel fitted. "Scroll guard pistol grips" were phased out on Reilly rifles in the 1850's. The gun now is redated to 1847. *13d

. . .-- SN 3514 - 1848? or 1858?, a 13 bore SxS percussion shotgun with "Reilly, New Oxford Street, London" on the rib. It was apparently made around 1858 per the trade label in the case. However, it looks older than that and may well date to 1848, the label having been changed when the gun was serviced. This would indicate that EM Reilly continued to number some guns in the 3350 series even after the 1847 changeover.*13c


*14 Hypothetical J.C. "5500" Serial Number series early/mid 1840's:

There are four (possibly five) extant Serial Numbered SxS percussion guns ranging from 5512 to 5991 from apparently the early to mid-1840's which are very similar; It may be that J.C. Reilly had a 5500 serial number series of some sort. If so this would increase the number of guns made from 1840-48 by some 500. if this series were connected to 4573 it would add a good 1,500 guns to the total Reilly made during this period.

It may be that J.C. and E.M. split their gun numbering series around 1840 when E.M. apparently became a full partner (and when the firm began using just "Reilly" in its advertisements) well before the move to Oxford Street, E.M. keeping the main-line series and jumping it to 8350 in 1847 and J.C. numbering guns with the 4500-6000 series and jumping those numbers to the 7000 series in 1846; More guns are needed to establish this point. (There is an upper date limit marker for this "series" - 5991 - which is post March 1847 from the address on the rib. However, there is no lower date marker for the series other than the 316 High Holborn address on the ribs - which could extend back to August 1835.)

. . . -- SN 4573 - c1841, a 7 gauge, smoothbore, short single barrel, dangerous game gun with "J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London" on the barrel. The gun appears to be from the 1840-1844 timeframe.*13a

. . . -- SN 5512 – 1843-47?, a 16 bore SxS muzzle loader shotgun, which has “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London now 502 New Oxford Street” on the rib, the only gun found so far with both addresses and it would appear numbered around the time of the move. However, the two addresses are printed a slightly different font indicating 5512 may have been brought in for maintenance after the March 1847 move and re-engraved at that time; *14a

. . .-- SN 5580 – 1843-47?, a 12 bore SxS muzzle loader shotgun, which has “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London” on the rib, (engraving and format very similar to 5512 above); *14b

. . .-- SN xxxx – 1843-47?, The engraving on 5512 and 5580 match remarkably to a 12 bore SxS percussion gun advertised by Christies with “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, Londonn” on the rib; The SN was unpublished, however, it could be part of this possible “5500 series.” *14c

. . .-- SN yyyy – 1843-47?, The engraving on 5512 and 5580 also match quite well a 16 bore Reilly SxS percussion shotgun with “Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London” on the rib.*14d

. . .-- SN 5759 – 1845-47?, a 10 bore SxS percussion shotgun, serial numbered “5759” on the barrels; no SN on the tang. No address on the flat filed rib; "Reilly" on the action. The seller speculated that the barrels had been rebored from a 12 bore rifle; The barrel is substantial and is stamped "12." The rib possibly was re-laid at that time and the scroll guard trigger/pistol grip tang replaced.*14e

. . .-- SN 5991 – 1847-48?, a 17 bore SxS percussion rifle, serial numbered “5991” on the barrels. “991” is found on forend stock, hammers and ramrod. “Reilly, New Oxford Street, London” is engraved on the rib; “Reilly, London” on the side plates. The case has a post December 1847 Reilly label pasted over a Lang label from 7 Haymarket Street, from circa 1845-1848. If this serial number is part of the hypothetical “5500” JC series, then it may indicate that the series was continued for some reason into the late 1840’s and used along-side the new “7000” series. *14f

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*14-A Evolution of Reilly Serial Numbers:

Following is the possible evolution of Reilly's serial number series for clarity using the date-marker extant guns:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


*15 December 1847 - 1856: New Label for 502 New Oxford-Street

Soon after the move, possibly around December 1847, the trade label changed to "Reilly, Gun Maker." It was rectangular shaped with scalloped corners and featured a sketch of 502 New Oxford Street. *15a

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

-- E.M. Reilly may have designed this new label. He was 30 years old at this time and he consistently demonstrated a better marketing touch, a more modern approach, more imagination and more organization than his father. The new label had new fonts and was much more dynamic than the bland, formal business card style of his father.

-- The "Gun Maker" font on the new label looks to have been deliberately carried over from the old 316 High Holborn label. It is in a sort of old English or Germanic style. This particular font continued to be used in various forms until the company declared bankruptcy in 1912.

-- The bottom line of the new label advertises “Large assortment always ready for India and emigrants to All Parts of the Universe.” E.M. truly had grand ambitions.


*16 Reilly in the early 1850's: Company organization

Some business anthologies and gun history sites from this period claim that J.C. Reilly made guns, E.M. Reilly air guns, and that the company had split into two entities.*16a,*16b But, both worked from the same building used the same case labels, and advertisements, etc. This distinction has been made too much of. They essentially operated as one company. 1850's Reilly advertisements confirm this conclusion.*16c. This said, it appears that E.M. was increasingly the dominate force in the company.

The 1851 census recorded Joseph Charles Reilly as living with a servant at 502 New Oxford Street. The rest of the family is not mentioned and may have gone on with their lives. Martha, J.C.’s wife had left him and was very much alive though he claimed he was a widower.*16d

There is no way to determine the size of the Reilly workforce in 1850. The 1851 census did not ask the number of men an employer engaged. However, there may be data for this enquiry somewhere. London: A Social History commented that London’s industries were small; “Out of 24,323 employers only 80 employed over 100.” “Small workshops predominated.”*16e This data had to come from someplace and it apparently was sourced to that 1851 census though no such information was included in the questions asked.


*17 1851 - late 1880's: Reilly 300 yard outdoor Shooting Range:

Advertisements from 1851 papers show that Reilly had a 300 yard shooting range near his London establishment.*17a Reputable London gun makers seemed to have had their own ranges.

Reilly's range was located off Wood Lane, Shepard's Bush. It was still in use in the 1880's.*17b Wood Lane was near the center of London but remained a rural area until the 1890’s when it became the site of a world’s fair.*17c A number of London gunmakers had ranges in the area; there was a pigeon shooting competition field, and a Militia range.*17d.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
*18 1851: Crystal Palace Exposition – the Lefaucheaux revelation

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Reilly exhibited at the 1851 Crystal Palace International Exposition*18a as Edward M. Reilly.*18b. This is one more indication of the increasing prominence of E.M. in company affairs. The exhibit included air guns, pistols, shotguns and rifles as well as examples of engraving and chasing, which may indicate the company had its own in-house engravers.*18b

There were two extremely influential guns shown at the exposition. Colt showed his heavy revolver which became a sensation. However, Reilly and the UK long-gun world was much taken by the Casimir Lefaucheaux’s center-break gun, marketed in France since 1836.*18c Reilly, Lang and Blanch ultimately became the major advocates for the Lefaucheaux break-action type guns in England, something that would cause a profound technological revolution and a great deal of dispute and public wrangling.

Comment: One cannot overstate the impact on UK gun making that the colt revolver had and in particular, the fact that it was made mostly by machinery. Colt was asked to speak to the British Society of Civil Engineers in fall 1851, the first American to do so, where he discussed his methods. Numerous publications commented later on his London factory and the fact that the workers finishing machine-made parts were not skilled and this in turn provoked dozens of trips by UK delegations to visit US factories. This ultimately led to Enfield establishing an “American system factory” circa 1860. The system did not arrive in Birmingham until the 1870’s. This is mentioned here because it is possible that Reilly tried elements of “The American System” later on in serial production of Prince and Green Brothers breech loaders).*18d


*19 Reilly in the early 1850's: Custom Guns and Munitions

Reilly was making custom explosive bullets for famous hunter/explorer Sir Samuel Baker as early as 1853, when Baker wrote his book The Rifle and Hound in Ceylon. Baker in 1874 edited the book adding, “For many years I have been supplied with first rate No 10 rifles by Messrs. Reilly & Co, of Oxford Street, London, which have never become in the slightest degree deranged during the rough work of wild hunting.” *19a Sir Samuel continued to use Reilly rifles for the next 30 years.*19b

By 1856 Reilly was also marketing Col. Jacob’s SxS rifle, a muzzle loading gun designed by Jacob for use on the hot Sindhi plains. It was a short barreled gun but allegedly could reach out 1,200 yards and had a sword bayonet fitted to it. Jacob’s rifle also used an exploding bullet made by Reilly among others.*19c

Years later in 1869 E.M. Reilly patented an exploding bullet, an idea possibly originating from his experience in working on the Baker and Jacob’s rifle cartridges.*19d


*20 1855: Reilly Numbering Bore Sizes before the 1855 Proof Law

In 1855 the British government required that bore sizes be stamped on barrels. Reilly, however, along with Greener and Manton, appears to have been amongst the very few gun makers stamping bore sizes for years before the formal requirement. There are several extant Reilly's with bore size stamps dating back to the early 1840’s.*20a


*21 1855: Paris Exposition Universelle

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Reilly exhibited at the 1855 Paris Universelle Exposition,*21a where he received much acclaim, "all guns were sold," and "many orders were booked." The exhibit was again in the name of E.M Reilly *21b; however, advertisements make it very clear that though EM won the medals, the firm was still "Reilly, Gun Maker."*21c

In some ways the 1855 Exposition was nearly as important for the UK gun-making fraternity as the 1851 Crystal Palace exposition. Lang won a gold medal (for excellence of construction) for his center-break pin-fire, an “improved” version of the Lefaucheaux gun.*21d Lang’s gun used a single bite lump while Lefaucheaux’s guns clearly used a double bite design although Lang reinforced other aspects of the gun.

Lang’s success apparently convinced both Reilly and Blanch, close collaborators, to research, construct and market the guns during the next year with dramatic results.


*22 September 1857: J.C. Reilly Retires; January 1864 he passed away:

In September 1857 J.C. Reilly retired*22a to his country estates at Bourn End, Cranfield, Bedfordshire,*22b where he died a wealthy man in January 1864.*22c E.M. was one of the executors of his will.*22d His last guns in the "7000" series were engraved with Julius Caesar's words "Vini, Vidi, Vici" ("I came, I saw, I conquered"),*22e possibly his swan song story. "Formerly Gun-Maker, London" was placed on his tombstone at his request.*22f

J.C.'s retirement appeared to have been quite abrupt. At the time the debate over center-break breech-loaders, a French invention, divided families and flame wars raged in the British press. One wondered if J.C., the traditionalist, broke with his son E.M, a very early proponent of the Lefaucheux break-action gun, over this issue - much like what happened between the Greener's father/son a few years later. However, based on 1855 advertisements in "The Field "broke" is not the correct word - rather a more accurate description of JC's retirement should be something like, "JC surrendered the field to his son."*22g


. . . . . IV: BREAK-ACTION BREECH-LOADING GUNS IN UK: 1852 – 1860


*23 1852-56: Break Action, Pin-Fire Guns in UK., PART 1, Hodges & Lang

This is not a detailed recounting of how Lefaucheaux’s break-action pin-fire breech-loader conquered the UK and changed gun history. However, the facts must be reviewed in brief so that Reilly’s part in it can be understood. (This is according to widely accepted gun-history legend; see below re Stephen Nash's rewriting of this narrative).

Castor Lefaucheaux took out a patent for a break action gun in France in 1836. Several of these guns made their way to the UK over the years but were generally ignored or regarded as curiosities. However, at the 1851 Crystal Palace Exposition, Lefaucheaux showed a single barrel pin-fire center-break gun.*23a It created a lot of interest.

Lefaucheaux did not take out a patent on the design in UK so it was free for the taking. The gun was ridiculed by many of the UK gun establishment, in particular William Greener (senior), who called it a “French crutch gun.”

However, a young 18 year old apprentice gunsmith named Edward Charles Hodges*23b especially took notice. Following the closing of the fair, he embarked on a project to build a copy of the gun, which after some time was completed, probably one speculates in late 1852.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

It Is not known how Hodges did this; did he buy a Lefaucheux (unlikely) or did he handle the gun and carefully take measurements and sketches? He could not have made the barrels himself so did he buy the barrels and lumps from Liège? There is no information on when Hodges completed his trial gun; neither he nor his sons ever commented.

(Note: French center-break shot-guns and rifles were available in the UK at this time and were known to gun-makers. Reilly in a letter to "The field" a few years later admitted to have "examined" such guns for a number of years previous and there are in-print recountings of British shooters using the French guns in the early-mid 1850's. Lefaucheaux was not the only French gun-maker exhibiting at Crystal Palace though his gun is the only one pictured.)

Over the following few months he worked to convince Joseph Lang to buy his gun and to make and sell versions of it. (Note: Hodges later made a good living making center-break pin-fire actions for all the major gun manufactures in London, This leads inevitably to speculation that he concentrated on perfecting the action and stock and indeed may have used barrels/lumps purchased in Liège, a simple and cheap way to forward the design).

Joseph Lang had started out as a silversmith and like Reilly later morphed into a gunsmith. In the 1820’s he was essentially selling guns Joseph Manton sent to him on consignment. When Manton went bankrupt in 1826, Lang bought his left-over stock, barrel borers etc. For the next 25 years he made guns at 7 Haymarket Street, London.*23c By 1826 he had created a 28 yard shooting gallery in a neighboring building, which became well known, and even advertised access to two billiards tables for his customers.*23d

In 1852 he moved his shop to 22 Cockspur Street; the shooting gallery closed. The company remained there until 1874.*23e Joseph Lang died in 1869 and his firm was subsequently run by his son.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Probably in 1853 after his move Lang finally succumbed to Hodges’ entreaties, bought Hodges' gun, and began working on the center-break concept.

By early 1854 he had a working gun ready for sale which followed pretty much the design of Lefaucheaux’s original gun although beefing up parts of it. He also tried to make it look as much like a percussion gun as possible, with wooden fore-end, etc., no doubt thinking that familiarity in looks would help its acceptance. His gun, however, though originally following the Lefaucheaux concept of using two bites on the lumps, ultimately wound up using only one.

Note: The original Lang guns apparently did not have forcing cones in front of the breech following Lefaucheaux's example; British gunmakers soon changed this.*23f

In this respect per comments in the UK press there was the distinct possibility that Lang was using Liège made barrels with lumps, which were later modified by English gunsmiths and that this continued into 1856-59. This is circumstantial evidence that Hodges had followed the same route.

In a pamphlet published in January 1857 to hawk the pin-fire, Lang wrote that he had been shooting break action pin-fires for three years.*23g

This would seem to indicate that he began shooting his own breech-loading guns (or at least breech-loading guns in general) in early 1854, which is as good a guess for the date of his first pin-fire gun as any. (The earliest extant datable Lang pin-fire is from 1858. One well-known British gunsmith has stated that he believes he may be able to locate two Lang pin-fire center-break guns with bills of sale dated to 1854. However, no documentation has been forthcoming.)

Lang continued privately to refine his gun and in summer 1855 he showed it at the Paris Exposition Universelle and won a gold medal for “excellence of construction.”*23h

Interestingly, from 1854-1858 no Lang commercial advertisements for the pin-fire can be found. The gun early on was hardly mentioned in the UK sporting press and indeed as late as November, 1856 editors of "The Field" appear to have been confused about the details of the gun or its variants.*23i. Whether Lang sold even one of his guns before the Paris Fair is an open question.

In late 1855 or early 1856 John Henry Walsh (aka "Stonehenge") (shortly thereafter to become editor of "The Field") published a review of Lang's gun in his book Manuel of British Rural Sports. This was first real acknowledgement and public awareness of the new gun.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Gradually, as the concept became accepted over the next three years beginning in late 1856-early 1857, a storm of controversy, a print “flame war,” erupted in the British press with a very conservative group of gun owners adamantly maintaining that the “crutch gun” could not stand up to strong charges of British powder with a few equally strong willed upper-class users touting its convenience, safety and general viability.*23j

Note: Lang comes across as insufferably arrogant in his letters to the press; witness his 1) 1858 advertisements labeling others' center-break guns as "rubbish"*23k; and, his 2) border-line insulting exchange in June 1859 with the editor of "The Field" over whether he was going to submit guns for the July 1859 "The Field" breech-loaders vs muzzle loaders trial. "I told you that nothing should induce me to have my name mixed up in such a farce."*23l

**Note: Stephen Nash, a pin-fire expert, has published an excellent and erudite examination of the British adaption of the French breech-loading concept. He has postulated credibly, based on analysis of existing guns and gun sketches, that Hodges and Lang adopted elements of Beringer's center break concepts in their gun, vice those of Lefaucheaux.*23m
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/lever-over-guard-origins


*24 1852-56: Break Action, Pin-Fire Guns in UK., PART 2, Reilly & Blanch

Shortly after the end of the 1855 Paris Universelle, William Blanch, who had been gradually asserting more authority in the Blanch and Sons company from his father John, sent an employee to Paris to buy a pin-fire. The receipt for his purchase, a Beringer around-trigger-guard-lever, break-action pin-fire gun, exists and is dated December 1855.*24a

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The Blanch’s and Reilly’s appear to have been friends and collaborators for many years. It seems that Blanch and Reilly both then began to develop their own break-action guns, reverse engineering the Beringer Lefaucheaux.

The difficulties they faced are enumerated in William Blanch’s obituary.*24b Quote: “But he had also the even more arduous task of teaching his men to make the new gun. The barrel men had to be instructed how to make the lump instead of a screw breech-plug. The percussioner had to be broken into the task of making actions on Lefaucheaux’s system. Everything was new and the only moral support in the task arose from the fact that Joseph Lang had some time previously entered the same field of research….”

E.M. Reilly, writing in December 1857, 40 years before the Blanch obituary*24d, noted that his firm had been examining the Lefaucheaux concept for 10 or 15 years.*24c Given Reilly’s propensity for gambling on technology and his connections to France, almost surely he considered building one and some lines he wrote much later in 1885 seem to indicate he experimented with the gun after the Crystal Palace fair. Certainly E.M. was not overly concerned with the difficulties of building such a gun or the cost of the machinery, the sole sticking point again being "instructing the workers." He definitely was building breech-loading pin-fire guns in early/mid-1856.

The three London gunmakers, Lang, Blanch and Reilly are universally credited as the London manufacturers who opened the doors to the center-break-action concept in the UK. (The whole concept was still new in UK; as late as December 1856 “The Field” still seemed confused about the various types of center-break pin-fires.*24e

And this brings the story to summer of 1856 which sparked a sporting gun revolution in UK and the world.

Note: the pin-fire was not the only center-break gun inspired by LeFaucheaux. Lancaster built his own break-action center-fire “base-fire” gun which might have conquered the market had he not tried to control the sale of ammunition for the gun.*24f


*25 1856: Reilly Begins Building Break Action Pin-Fire Guns

E.M. Reilly claimed he worked on the concept shortly after the 1851 Crystal Palace exhibition but abandoned it as commercially unviable - whether this is true or not is not verifiable.*25a

It is possible that Reilly constructed a pin-fire rifle in 1855. Blanch seemed to believe that Reilly was working on a pin-fire gun when he bought his Beringer in Paris. There is a 12 bore pin-fire rifle shell stamped "Reilly, London" and dated 1855.*25b It certainly was made under contract and imported from France. The cartridge's existence shows only that Reilly might have been selling pin-fire shells in 1855. It does, however, highlight Reilly's involvement in center-break guns at the time, surely a very small niche business then but one for which a sharp visionary businessman like E.M. could see a future.

Reilly certainly began building commercially marketed center-break guns as early as 1856 after the Paris Universelle. The first datable advertisement for a Reilly center-break gun is from "The Law Journal"," 16 August 1856, with follow-on ads in the fall of 1856. *25c From this it appears that Reilly was the very first London gunmaker to advertise center-break pin-fire shotguns for sale.

The earliest existing Reilly pin-fire, perhaps the earliest extant UK made pin-fire period, is SN 10054, a 12 bore rifle dating to late summer 1856.*25d

A long letter from E.M. Reilly was published in the 26 December 1857 edition of "The Field" addressing the center-break pin-fire gun controversy.*25e E.M. stated that until about summer 1857 most of his pin-fire breech-loaders were sold as "novelties."*25f It wasn't until then that the whole break-action concept began to be taken seriously in UK.

E.M. by that time had taken a major technological business risk. Per an advertisement from June 1857 he had 100 center-break breech-loaders in various states of build and ready to be customized.*25g He gambled on the market by devoting fully 33% of his production capacity to making breech-loaders. This was some two years before Purdey made his first. Boss didn’t make a center-break gun until 1858. Harris Holland made his first ever six center-break guns in 1857, etc.

Reilly for years had connections to Paris and Liège. There is some evidence that all early pin-fire makers in the UK, Hodges, Lang, Blanch and Reilly, may have been at some point dealing with Liège for actions, barrels, etc. There is one Reilly pin-fire from early 1860's with faint Liège proof marks on it overlain by London proof marks.*25h


*26 Mid-1856: Trade/Case Label Changes

Reilly case labels changed after the 1855 Paris Universelle.*26a
. .-- The new label illustrated the 1851 and 1855 world's fair medals*26b
. .-- It highlighted "Fusils Ă  bascule," French for center-break guns (made on the "Lefaucheux principle").
. .-- The new label also advertised “Improved Breech Loaders” referring to guns such as the Prince Patent bolt action and the Terry Patent breech loaders which he marketed and promoted.*26c
. .-- The bottom line in the label has been changed to read "emigrants to "All Parts of the Globe", slightly scaling back his shipping capabilities from “the Universe” as used on the 1847-1855 labels.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

When exactly this label was adopted is not certain. The first dated newspaper ad found with the phrase "Fusils Ă  bascule" appeared in "The Law Journal"," 16 Aug 1856.*26d There are other 1856 Reilly advertisements for "Fusils Ă  bascule" or "Fusils bascule" in certain books and tour guides but the exact dates these were published are not clear.*26e

There is a good chance, however, that Reilly had begun making the new labels before summer 1856 and probably months before the building of Reilly pin-fire 10054. *26f


*27 1856-1858: Reilly Extant Break Action Pin-Fire Guns

Following are the earliest extant Reilly center-break pin-fire guns dating from late summer 1856 to spring 1858.

(Note: London guns were typically serial numbered when ordered; Reilly delivered his guns within 3 weeks of an order as opposed to 9 months-2 years for others, thus the Reilly "spec" guns - built without a specific custom order - may have been serial numbered when bought and then delivered pretty close to the order date):

. . .-- SN 10054 - summer 1856: The oldest Reilly center-break gun so far found. It is a "Lefaucheux/Lang" type long forward-underlever, single-bite type pin-fire 15 bore SxS rifle engraved "Reilly, 502 New Oxford-Street, London" on the rib. It is in a period case, with the post 1855 Paris Universelle label with "Fusils Ă  bascule" on it. It would date per the chart to late summer 1856, about the time the first Reilly ad for "Fusils Ă  bascule" appeared in the London Press (mentioned above).*27a

. . .-- SN 10128 - December 1856: The second oldest existing Reilly pin-fire. It is a 16 bore SxS Shotgun, a Lang/Lefaucheux long underlever, single bite, pin-fire with "Reilly, 502 New Oxford-Street, London" on the rib.*27b

. . .-- SN 10355 - summer 1857: 12 bore SxS shotgun, pin-fire hammer gun (address unknown) with leather case and original labels and implements. No additional details are available from at the time a rather obscure US auction house.*27c

. . .-- SN 10655 - March 1858: The fourth oldest extant Reilly break-action SxS gun found to date: It is a "Lefaucheux/Lang" type short forward-underlever, single-bite type pin-fire 12 bore SxS shotgun with "E.M. Reilly, 502 New Oxford-Street, London" on the rib, probably numbered around the time of the below mentioned "The Field" trial spring 1858.*27d (Note the E.M. Reilly name but without the “& Co.” on the rib; there is one Reilly advertisement in a late 1857 newspaper using “E.M. Reilly” rather than. just “Reilly.”)*27e

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


*28 1858-1860: Reilly Develops and Trials Break Action Pin-Fire Guns

E.M. Reilly participated in the April 1858 trial pitting muzzle-loaders against breech-loaders run by "The Field."*28a His breech-loader handed a W.W. Greener muzzle-loader an historic defeat in this trial; Greener later tried to denigrate breech-loaders in his 1858 book, and was called out in the most definitive fashion by "The Field."*28b

By spring 1858 Reilly was heavily invested in building SxS pinfire rifles, not a new concept for him; the oldest extant Reilly is a 15 bore rifle, but certainly with an added emphasis.*28c

In fall 1858 Reilly, along with Lang and Blanch, the original proponents of break-action guns in UK, was reported to be "overdone with orders for his breech-loaders" per "The Field"*28d. The article specifically praised Reilly’s 16 bore pin-fire used in the competition.*28e "The Field" commented in the same article that at this time ¾ of the orders for new guns in London were for breech loaders.*28f

Reilly provided 4 guns for the follow-on muzzle-loader/break-action breech-loader trial run by the "The Field" in July 1859. All were allegedly built on the "lever under fore-arm" English standard single-bite "Lefaucheux/Lang" principle per a sketch in "The Field."*28g

At this time Reilly also was making guns with the under-lever located under the trigger guard Beringer-style per a late 1859 book sketch;*28i Whether one of these guns participated in the trials is unknown. (The gun pictured in the book sketch could well be a center-break Beriinger-style pin-fire SxS shotgun sold at a recent auction – serial number unknown).*28j

1. 1859 Reilly "Lefaucheaux format" (more likely Beringer w/o the around trigger-guard underleaver) trials gun - "The Field"
2. 1859 Reilly Beringer around-trigger guard underlever - sketch
3. Reilly Beringer pin-fire sold at auction, SN unknown:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Comment: Several of the most prestigious London gunmakers then involved in making breech-loader pinfires did not enter the 1859 trials. This was commented on by "The Field."*28h[/b]. These gunmakers would have been competing against "the country makers" - the "hoi paloi" - and had everything to lose - their reputation - and nothing to gain.


*29 Observation re "retailer" vs "gunmaker" from an analysis of extant 1856-58 Reilly pin-fires:
-- SN 10054 (Late summer 1856),
-- SN 10128 (December 1856),
-- SN 10355 (mid 1857), and
-- SN 10655 (March 1858):

. . .-- 10054 & 10128 late summer and December 1856: In fall 1856, there were virtually no outworkers in London who could have made 10054 or 10128. Both guns are early Lang/Lefaucheux forward under-lever pin-fire SxS's.
. . . . . .- Lang was making pin-fire Lefaucheux style breech loaders but not for the trade (perhaps he had made and sold some 10 pin fire guns over two years by this time and that is probably a high estimate; per his serial numbering system, Lang was making about 75 guns total a year from 1830-1860...perhaps by 1855 100 a year). Per Lang's own pamphlet he began to "shoot" such guns in January 1854 (perhaps trying out his own early models or a Lefaucheaux gun - the phrase is not clear). What is clear is that he did not advertise center-break pin-fires at all. Yet Lang won a publicized gold medal at the 1855 Paris Universelle for his breech loader - his work on the concept was not a secret, just ignored by the gun-world.
. . . . . .- E.C. Hodges, the original designer of Lang's break-action gun, had completed his apprenticeship in 1852 and by the late 1850's was making center-break actions for a dozen different makers including prestige names labeled with his stamp on the water table - not found on Reilly's.*29a
. . . . . .- Blanch claimed he made his first pin-fire breech-loader in 1856, this after traveling to Paris to buy a center-break, under-lever around trigger-guard, Berringer style pin-fire in late 1855 after the Paris Universelle and reverse engineering it. Yet, the first known Blanch advertisement in the UK press for a center-break pin-fire was in 1858.*29b Blanch was not making guns for the trade.
. . . . . .- Reilly, thus was on his own when he obviously embarked on a similar path to that of Blanch in 1855 or early 1856 to manufacture and sell the French invention.

. . .-- 10355 mid-1857: Similar conclusions (without additional details on the gun). Note: By mid 1857 there were likely less than 100 British built pin-fires being shot in the UK. Reilly, however, per the 26 June 1857 edition of "The Field" above, was building 100 pin-fire "spec" (speculation- i.e. "awaiting a buyer") guns (a long-time Reilly practice). This gun 10355 was probably one of them.

. . .-- 10655, March 1858: This is a Lefaucheux-style 12 bore SxS shotgun pin-fire breech-loader: At the time it was numbered, March 1858, believe there were still very few gun-making firms or gun parts makers in general in all of UK that could have made it or portions of it – barrels & actions, and it's twins submitted by Reilly for the April 1858 "The Field" breech-loader vs muzzle-loader trials.
. . . . . .- Although London gun-makers by 1858 were getting involved in experimenting with the concepts and had begun in some case building a few guns (indicating an infrastructure in London was being created), again, the two firms, who could possibly have made 10655 in spring 1858 were Lang and Blanch. However, Lang and Blanch had orders aplenty themselves.
. . . . . .- As for Birmingham, one Birmingham gunsmith "Elliott" submitted two "patent" pin-fire break-actions for the July 1859 trials.*29c. Their recoil per "The Field" was so severe that they were virtually un-shootable. Yet the first main-stream Birmingham-made center-break gun or the manufacture of center-break actions was still several years in the future. Samuel Breedon c1861 may have been one of the very first makers in Birmingham of breech-loader actions.*29d

. . .-- Thus, the most logical conclusion is that the extant Reilly pin-fires from this era 10054, 10128, 10355, and 10655 were indeed made by Reilly lock, stock and barrel; no one else could have done it for him. It well may be that 10054 is the earliest UK made pin-fire center-break gun in existence.

(These conclusions are per historical data currently available on the early origins of UK center-break pin-fires. For the record Haris Holland made his first breech loader in 1857 although he advertised them in Sep 1856; Boss in 1858; Purdey in late 1858 or early 1859. The role that Liège barrel and action makers played in this story of the origin of the UK center-break gun is not clear; however, very prominent gun sport writers have suspicions that it was much more important than most would admit.)
. . . . . V: REILLY SUPPORTS RIFLE INNOVATION: 1854 – 1860


*30 1853-1860: Reilly building innovative Military Grade Muzzle Loading Rifles:

Reilly always built rifles.*30a Throughout the late 1840’s and 1850’s he offered well-built muzzle loading rifles to officers and immigrants going out to the colonies, quite often in .577 caliber, so they could use military grade ball. In 1853 Arsenal adopted the .577 caliber Enfield rifle-musket, perhaps the finest percussion rifle of its day (although deficiencies appeared during the Crimean War). Reilly of course built Enfields and Enfield variants since Arsenal did not seem interested in protecting the industrial specifications (as they later did).

But over the next few years from 1853 to 1860 Reilly also was involved in making and developing other muzzle loading ideas from rifling to bullets. Some worked out. Others didn’t. But, Reilly was present during this period on the cutting manufacturing edge for anything that might sell. Out of this original manufacturing/marketing interest came an apparent Reilly obsession – i.e. win an Arsenal contract for a military rifle and make a fortune and E.M., the technology gambler, accepted the task and the risk (discussed later).

Following are a few of the percussion rifles Reilly made during this decade:

. . . . .1853 Enfield- Rifle-Musket. (Disclaimer: this is not meant to be an authoritative exploration of the 1853 Enfield…rather it is a simplified look at the history of Reilly making Enfields.)

. . . . . . . . . .- Reilly in the late 1850’s, early 1860’s built dozens and dozens of military style Enfields and sporterized Enfield rifles, both single and double-barreled, although the advertising for both was somewhat vague.*30b

. . . . . . . . . .- By 1859 he was advertising and marketing 2 and 3 band military style Enfields for the Volunteer services corps. Some had serial numbers if he built them; some were advertised for “wholesale” with his name on the gun but no serial number, obviously obtained elsewhere. And, the Enfield was a huge money-maker during the American War Between the States.*30c For the record (and a “date marker” serial number), Reilly-made Enfield SN 11716 was given as a prize at a Christmas 1860 competition. The date is confirmed by the below serial number dating chart.*30d

. . . . . . . . . .- In the early 1860’s he began using the .451 cartridge for some of his Enfield rifles.*30e Whitworth had patented the .451 hexagonal bullet in 1856; Westley-Richards used Whitworth rifling/barrels (and his own ideas-who came first is still a dispute) on his 1858 breech loading “monkey tail” carbine (see below). The bullet/rifling was superior in every way to the .577 with a flatter trajectory and higher muzzle velocity. Whitworth sniper guns in .451 in the hands of the Confederates killed several Union generals. In early 1861 Reilly started advertising Enfields, especially sniper guns, with this cartridge and chambered a lot of guns for it.*30f There are four extant Reilly .451 Enfields, the earliest two from 1861, the most iconic being SN 12073.*30g

. . . . . . . . . .-One of Reilly’s 1853 Enfields SN 12,002 (1861) was later converted into the first Green Brothers breech-loader by Reilly in 1964 as a proof-of-principle experiment (Chapter IX,50 below) and others later were converted to Snider breech loaders after 1866.

. . . . . . . . . .- His sporting versions of the Enfield are quite elegant.*30h He advertised his sporting Enfields as having been so designed that the gun would fit into a normal case (something a 2 or 3 band Enfield with the long long forearm could not do.)*30h1

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . .General Jacob’s Rifle: As discussed before In 1854 Col. John Jacob, famous throughout the Punjab and Sindh area after the 3rd Sikh war and still regarded as a saint in Jacobobad, Pakistan, designed a gun for use on the hot Sindhi plains and had it built in London by Daw (Swinburne was his preferred manufacturer) It was a rifled SxS muzzle loader, which allegedly could reach out 1,200 yards, and had a sword bayonet fitted to it. The rifle could use an exploding bullet.*30i Reilly had a license to produce it, its ammunition and its bayonet.*30j

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . .English Schuetzen Percussion Target Rifle by E.M. Reilly: And for the fun of it there is at least one Reilly Schuetzen muzzle-loading target rifle, no serial number, probably marketed before 2 rue Scribe, Paris opened. It has only "E.M. Reilly" and not the "& Co., so likely 1858-59. E.M. Reilly loved "novelties." He always had interesting and unusual guns in his display rooms; perhaps this was part of his marketing strategy; people would say, "Let's drop in and see what's going on at Reilly's today."
. . . . . . . . . .50 caliber, 33.25" barrel, no S/N. Damascus barrel with Schuetzen-style stock finely checkered at forend and wrist. Blade front sight with iron ramrod pipes with entry pipe leading to reinforced forend. Classic schuetzen type trigger guard with set trigger. Forend tapped for palm rest. Top of barrel marked "E. M. REILLY, 502 NEW OXFORD ST. & 315 OXFORD ST., LONDON." lock plate marked "REILLY/LONDON" and engraved with classic broad scrolls.*30k


*31 1855-1860: Other breech-loader rifles and new innovations made by Reilly:

1858 Travel Guide:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Breech loading military rifles had gradually impinged on the muzzle loading conservative establishment. In 1848 the Prussian military adopted the Dryese needle gun breech loader. The rest of Europe continued with muzzle-loaders. In 1853 the UK dropped the storied “Brown Bess” and adopted the Enfield 1853 “rifle-musket.” Yet time was moving on and innovations could not be denied.

E.M. Reilly in the 1850’s was far more modern than his father J.C. and as pointed out above had gradually taken over the business. He kept abreast of changes. He was not wedded to one design and was much more flexible than other hide-bound London traditional makers, witness his early involvement per above in the pin-fire center-break breech-loader.

In addition to the pin-fire, however, Reilly also got involved in making and selling a number of other breech loading rifles, a fact displayed prominently on his new 1856 label.*31a Like Westley-Richards, Prince and others he apparently got £ signs in his eyes re the possibility of getting a piece of the Empire’s military contracts. In particular he advertised and manufactured two of the three most important UK breech-loading rifles of the era, Prince (1855) and Terry (1856) (see below).*31b

Paradoxically he did not advertise or apparently sell the third, the Westley Richards “Monkey-Tail” carbine/rifle (1858) (Details below); nor it seems did he make variations of the Dreyse needle gun which were being marketed by gun makers such as Haris Holland. The fact that Reilly did not publicize these guns in his ads (even while implying he had them for sale) adds some weight to the supposition that he might have had a financial stake in Prince and possibly Terry (see below):

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . .*31A -- Terry Patent breech loaders:

Per above Reilly by 1856 was marketing all kinds of new breech loaders and by 1858 Reilly was advertising Terry Patent SxS breech loaders. William Terry was a Birmingham gun maker who was granted a patent for a breech-loading rifle in April 1856;*31Aa The carbine was issued to the 18th Hussars and other British cavalry regiments in 1859, was used by Australia and New Zealand militia and by the Confederates in the War Between the States. Reilly made them under license.

A Reilly-made Terry Patent SxS rifle was used by the Anglican Bishop of Sarawak in 1862 sailing with the small three ship “navy” of Sarawak led by the son of Rajah Brooks during a confrontation with pirate ships off Mukdah. The Bishop said his gun had performed admirably and thanked the maker.*31Ab (The British press severely criticized the Bishop for participating in the battle without understanding the merciless nature of marauding slavers).*31Ac

How many Terry Patent breech-loaders Reilly built is unknown. One gun still exists, SN 13132 (late 1863). It's a SxS 40 bore ( .500 caliber) "William Terry's Patent" SxS carbine. The gun has Birmingham proof marks, highly unusual for a Reilly (discussed further in the chapter on barrels). Terry had his workshop/factory in Birmingham and perhaps he proofed the barrels while Reilly made the stock and assembled the gun.*31Ad


. . . . .*31B -- Prince Patent Breech Loader:

EM Reilly promoted the Prince patent breech loader in the late 1850's. This was probably the finest existing breech-loading rifle of its time. It outshot the newly adopted Enfield in 1855 and was consistently raved about by every civilian gun expert who tried it. However, it was never adopted by the Military.

In March 1858, shortly before “The Field” first trial for muzzle loader vs breech-loaders, 12 prominent London gun-makers signed an open letter in “The Field” urging Arsenal to reopen the army rifle competition in favor of the Prince.*31Ba Amongst the signers were Dean, Blanch, Wilkinson, Henry Tatham, John Blissett and a couple of others. All pledged that they had no financial stake in Prince and had signed the petition for the good of the country. (This group of London gun-makers always seemed associated in some way with Reilly, Prince and Green in that time period.)

Notably, Reilly and the Green brothers did not sign the letter; Green was in partnership with Prince and Reilly may well have had a financial stake in their firm, thus could not. However, in view of Reilly’s subsequent heavy commitment to making Prince breech-loaders and given E.M.’s shrewd business sense, it is entirely possible that Reilly provoked the whole exercise as a business ploy.

Reilly subsequently was one of several London gun-makers licensed to make the rifle (the others from the list of signers, coincidentally). In fact, it appears that during summer/fall 1858 Reilly took another technological market-place gamble by devoting significant resources to build a quantity of Prince breech loaders, perhaps as many as 100 out of some 200 Reilly guns made during that period.

There are five existing Reilly-made Prince rifles, three from summer/fall 1858 (the only extant Reilly's from that 3 month period) serial numbered close enough together to speculate that Reilly might have tried some method of mass production to produce them all at once: Note the August 1858 change to "Reilly & Co" on SN 10811 the first known gun with the newly occupied (315) "Oxford Street" address (see below)
. . . . .-- SN 10738– summer 1858; Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; .350 cal, single-barrel, breech loader. (10438 on hammer along with “Reilly).*31Bb
. . . . .-- SN 10811– early fall 1858: Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .25 bore (sic) (probably .577), single barrel breech-loader hammer gun. 30.5” brls.*31Bd
. . . . .-- SN 10872– late summer 1858: Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. .577 bore, single barrel breech-loader hammer gun.*31Bc
. . . . .-- SN 11118 (SN not clear) – summer 1859; Reilly & Co., London. .577 bore, single -barrel, breech loader.*31Bf
. . . . .-- SN 11645– late summer 1860: Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London. 100 bore; Rifle, single barrel, breech loader.*31Be


. . . . .*31C -- Westley-Richards “Monkey Tail” Breech Loader. – a non-event:

On 25 March 1858, Westley-Richards patented his “Monkey-Tail” breech loader. Richards had a relationship with Whitworth who patented a .451 round in 1856. Whitworth used a hexagonal bore; Richards an Octagonal bore. There were other difference in rifling. The concept dominated UK accuracy contests for years. W-R earned some contracts from Arsenal for cavalry carbines and orders of upwards of 80,000 by various armies over the years but never the coveted general contract for the army.

Reilly advertising in the 1860’s emphasized his commitment to selling all sorts of innovative breech loading rifles. However, he never advertised a Westley-Richards or a Whitworth (though he did use .451 high-velocity idea in early 1860’s Enfield rifles per above). The first Reilly advertisement specifically for a Westley-Richards, whether a gun sold in ready state or made under license, did not appear until 1871.*31Ca


. . . . . VI: REILLY - FLYING HIGH: 1858 – 1862 .


*32 August 1858: Opening of 315 Oxford-Street - New Label

In early August 1858 with new partners (unknown) Reilly took over/bought out the shop and shooting galleries of William Squires, then a London gun maker located at 315A Oxford Street.*32a This branch was probably opened because of the surging demand for break-action breech-loaders.*32b The branch early on was also referred to as "Reilly's Armoury House" or "The Manufactory." Records indicate that Reilly owned the property in "freehold."

Reilly was three doors down from Purdey located at "314 1/2".**32c Oxford Street numbering at the time is extremely confusing. There were 9 x 315's in the census of 1871 and 1881 and in the pre-1882 postal directories. It appears the entire block was numbered "315" with variations; Oxford Street was later renumbered in November 1881.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

From this time forward guns with only "Oxford Street, London" on their ribs would have been built at 315 Oxford Street. Guns built at 502 New Oxford Street without a street number would have simply "New Oxford Street."

. . .-- *10811 - The first existing gun with only "Oxford Street" is a Prince patent breech loader SN 10811 (summer 1858)*32d

Reilly created a separate rectangular trade label with unscolloped corners for this new workshop, again using "Fusils à bascule" with the name “Reilly’s Armoury House.” It advertised the shooting gallery.*32e

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


*33 The Shooting Gallery at 315 Oxford Street:

In 1855 Squires advertised in “The Field" that he ran a 42 yard Shotgun/rifle range and 40 foot pistol gallery on the premises of 315A Oxford Street.*32a Reilly kept these galleries open, the longer one advertised as a 50 yard shooting gallery.*33a,*33b A 50 yard shooting gallery in central London is extremely unusual. While many gun manufacturers had a small space for shooting hand-guns, perhaps only two had a space where shotguns and rifles could be shot, Lang and Squires/Reilly. Lang had a well-known shooting gallery described numerous times; but it was only about 21 yards long.*33c It apparently closed in 1852 when Lang moved to Cockspur street.

Thus, Reilly's shooting gallery likely was unique. Per newspaper ads and per mentions in articles in "The Field," the 50 yard shooting gallery was "on the premises" of Reilly's 315 manufactory.*33d It had to be above ground for light and ventilation. It may have occupied property running from Oxford Street through an apparent large open space/courtyard behind the building to Princess street near Hanover Square. The last ad for the range so far found is in 1867.*33e In the 1870's the center of this block became a skating rink and then Salvation Army Regents Hall from 1882 on.


*34 August 1858 - April 1861: Four Changes in the Company Name

This post will mostly be of interest to those trying to date guns and labels. The dates of the name changes, descriptions are a best guess; multiple advertisements in newspapers and magazines can be found with differing descriptions/names running at the same time.

For 10 years after the 1847 move to 502 New Oxford Street, the company was known in advertisements as “REILLY, GUN MAKER" (sometimes one word GUNMAKER").. "Reilly" was the name used on the gun barrels, ribs and actions.*34 There were exceptions for J.C.'s 7000 series which at times were engraved with his full name on the ribs. Then with J.C’s 1857 retirement, E.M began a series of business moves upgrading the company which included name changes.


. . . . .*34A “REILLY & CO., GUN MAKERS” - August 1858 - March 1859

. . . . . . . . . .-- When Reilly opened 315 Oxford Street in early August 1858 with “new partners,” the company’s name appears to have changed from "Reilly, Gun Maker" (singular) to "Reilly & Co., Gun Makers"(plural). This was for a short while from circa August 1858-March 1859 per a few advertisements & references in books. (Many advertisements until January 1859 and even beyond that date continued to use only the "Reilly, Gun Maker" name.)

. . . . . . . . . .-- Newspaper ads only began mentioning this name from January 1859 but it may have been registered in some way in trade directories.*34Aa “Reilly & Co.” is referred to occasionally in books and newspaper articles.*34Ab No trade labels exist with this name. A few advertisements using "Reilly & Co." can be found as late as September 1859.

. . . . . . . . . .-- 315 Oxford Street at the same time used all sorts of names in advertisements: "Reilly Armoury House," "Reilly’s Armoury House"; " Reillys, the Armoury House"; "Reilly’s London Armoury House." However, these were never "official" company names.*34Ac
. . . . . . . . . .-- Two extant Reillys, both Prince Patent rifles numbered in fall 1858, have "Reilly & Co.” on the barrel.
. . . . . . . . . .-- Note: November & December1858 there were a few outlier Ads for "REILLY, MANUFACTURER.” These appeared in three newspapers. This apparently had no effect on the name of the company but was a harbinger of things to come.*34Ad


. . . . .*34B ”E.M. REILLY & CO., GUN MAKERS” - February 1859 – August 1860:

. . . . . . . . . .-- By February 1859 the company's name used in newspaper and magazine ads changed definitively to "E.M. Reilly & Co.", a name which continued in use for the next 100 years.*34Ba

. . . . . . . . . .-- His labels for both branches changed at this time to reflect the new name, "E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Makers" (plural):

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .- NEW LABEL: 502 New Oxford St continued to use the standard scalloped corner rectangular label illustrated by the sketch of the building and the 1851 & 1855 World’s Fair medals;*34Bb

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .- NEW LABEL: 315 Oxford Street continued to have a different rectangular label still without scallops but now also with the “E.M Reilly & Co.” name and the 1851 and 1855 medals.*34Bc

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . . . . . . .-- 315 Oxford Street continued to use all sorts of names in advertisements per above, none of them official.*34Bd

. . . . . . . . . .-- The first extant serial numbered gun with "E.M. Reilly & Co." on the barrel is a 3 band Enfield SN 11227 per the dating chart numbered in autumn 1859.

. . . . .*34C “E.M. REILLY & CO., GUN MANUFACTURER” (singular) - August 1860 – April 1861:
. . . . . . . . . .-- In August 1860 Reilly began using "Gun Manufacturer" (singular) rather than "Gun Makers" in his advertisements. The Trade Labels did not appear to change.*34Ca. Some long-term advertisements continued to refer to E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Makers during this period as did the trade labels.

. . . . .*34D “E.M. REILLY & CO., GUN MANUFACTURERS" (plural)” - April 1861:

. . . . . . . . . .-- In circa April 1861 the company's description on labels and in advertisements changed from "Gun Makers" to "Gun Manufacturers"(plural).*34Da From this point on the company was known definitively as "E.M. REILLY & CO., GUN MANUFACTURERS," a name and description which continued in use for the next 40 years.

. . . . . . . . . .-- NEW LABEL: At that time the sketch of 502 New Oxford Street was dropped from his case labels. The separate label for 315 Oxford Street also was dropped. The new label had 502 as the featured address. A label mentioning 315 during the time frame 1861-1868 has not been found.*34Db)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

(After 1868 Reilly labels mention 315 as a "branch establishment" in scroll work on the label.) The basic format for the new label remained fundamentally consistent for the next 30+ years with variations (additions of medals, branch addresses in scroll work, occasionally mention of royalty, etc.) There were a few outlier labels. The advertising scroll work at the bottom of the label changed slightly after 1885. (See the separate chart dating Reilly labels).

. . . . . . . . . .-- PRESENTATION LABEL: Reilly Presentation cases also at this time changed to adopt both the new name and sometimes the "Gun Manufacturers" description; two examples exist, each slightly different.*34Dc

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

*35 1859 – 1900: Reilly Selling to Yoemanry Militia & Gun Clubs at Wholesale Prices

Beginning in 1859, Reilly began advertising rifles sold wholesale to equip "Yoemanry" militia.*35a He continued to advertise such guns up to at least the 1890's.*35b Most of these guns were not made by him, especially after the early 1860's, and thus not serial numbered. (The Yoemanry Militia, a sort of UK "National Guard," was still in existence in WWI and units were deployed to France). He also advertised discounts for bulk purchases by shooting clubs.*35c Reilly continued to hawk sales of guns wholesale in his advertisements and occasionally on outlier labels for the next 40 years.*35d


*36 1860-61: Reilly Making Guns, All Parts, Using Others’ Patents, and Making Guns Under License:

During this time frame Reilly in advertisements claimed to be making every piece of every gun he serial numbered in his two workshops on Oxford Street and invited customers to "view the progress of their order."*36a This would make Reilly one of the very few "vertical" gun companies in London. (Adams and Colt are the only other two that this writer knows of and Adams had major connections to Liège). The London (and Birmingham) gun trade at the time relied for the most part on out-sourced parts and materials, which were assembled and finished in-house.

Note. Haris Holland posted a similar advertisement in "The Field" in 1858.*36b It's entirely possible that Reilly was allowing customers to view only the "assembled/finished" parts of small arms manufacturing; this said, Reilly's manufacturing spaces with his two buildings dwarfed that of Haris Holland at the time.

In an article about Reilly leading up to the 1862 London World’s Fair, Reilly clearly explained his manufacturing and business philosophy: He was not wedded to any particular design; And he made others’ patents that he deemed commercially viable. This was the company business model for 30 years but it was spelled out quite definitively.*36c

How the patent license fees were paid, how much a patent license fee cost for individual patents, and how they were numbered remains a mystery of the London gun trade. One of the possible reasons for building another maker’s patented gun under license might have been a question of time. Reilly worked faster than other London gunmakers. If a client wanted a Dougall lockfast or a Brazier action on his gun, Reilly would make it or buy it and install it from the maker (but it would cost extra).*36d
. . . . . VII. CHARACTERISTICS OF REILLY GUNS AND PRODUCTS


*37 Comments on Reilly Stocks

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

There are consistent characteristics of Reilly stocks over the course of 90 years which can help identify an authentic Reilly:

. .-- Reilly used French Walnut:. Reilly from very early on reportedly used French walnut. During the 1830’s and 40’s his highly figured stocks differed from the standard English walnut offered by other makers and may be something of a marker.*37a

Note: This commentary on stocks is meant to be confined to Reilly. However, as background, per UK newspaper records, English walnut production was falling considerably short throughout the 1830’s and by 1840 Arsenal was importing Continental walnut stock blanks.

. . . . .-- There was debate about this in Parliament in 1843.*37b There certainly are numerous records for the importation of French and Continental walnut stock blanks in massive quantities into UK during the 1850’s. It is impossible to determine from raw shipping records who got what without shop accounts.*37c

. . . . .-- The lack of home grown walnut, however, elicited a great deal of concern in the English gun-making fraternity from 1840 on; numerous commentaries were written in journals and alternative woods to walnut searched for.*37d John Rigby in his introduction to the summary of guns shown at the 1862 London International Exposition had this to say:
. . . . . . . . ."Walnut, which is now almost universally used for gun stocks, is a scarce timber in England, and for years we have been obliged to seek our supplies abroad. Italy has exported the greater portion of the wood used in our Government arms for some time, and large numbers of French and other Continental gun stocks are also sent into this country." *37d(1)

. .-- In-house stock-maker:: Reilly likely had his own in-house stock makers. A good stock-maker at the time could produce up to 9 (military - not custom) stocks a week (according to an 1856 article comparing the just opened Enfield machine stock maker to handicraft stock makers).*37e. With his established connections to France, Reilly may have had his own methods of choosing and importing quality French walnut stock blanks.

. .-- Shotgun Straight Stocks:Reilly almost always throughout the history of the firm used a straight English stock for SxS shotguns.*37f

. .-- Big-bore Fowlers optional:The exception to this are big-bore fowlers; A goodly percentage of Reilly shotguns 10 bore or larger had some type of pistol grip although this was not ubiquitous and was quite personal.*37g

. .-- Pistol grip on Rifles:He almost always used a pistol grip stock for rifles,*37h and if not, early on a trigger-guard extension which aped a pistol grip (a "scroll guard").*37i

A number of Reilly post 1870 rifles were later converted to shotguns. If a Reilly 12 gauge and smaller "shotgun" has a pistol grip stock, it almost certainly was repurposed from a rifle. The markers for such a conversion are the pistol grip, barrel length less that 30” and weight.*37j

(After Riggs bought the name in 1922 most “Riggs-Reilly” guns, both shotguns and rifles, used "Prince of Wales" half-pistol grip stocks.)*37k


*38 1820-1900: Reilly Engraving

Reilly engraving evolved over the years and understanding its evolution may be helpful in dating guns. (Disclaimer: this is a cursory analysis of the engraving found on extant Reilly long-guns):

-- In the 1820’s-1830’s Reilly engraving was mostly simple “vine and scroll” patterns used by many gun makers at the time.*38a

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-- By the early 1840’s and continuing into the 1950’s the motifs had advanced to a “large scroll” or “English scroll” design.*38b.

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There may be more complex engraving during this time period on guns which no longer exist. For instance the company showed examples of embossing and chasing at the 1851 Crystal Palace world’s fair.*38c

Throughout the 1850’s and much of the 1860’s, the engraving continued to echo the above “simple vine and scroll” and “English Scroll” work although becoming more complex. Reilly built guns for Rajah’s and royalty during this period which were obviously higher grades but his bread and butter clientele were the mid-level army officers and lower-level country gentlemen. He did not choose to compete head-to-head for the high-end market with extremely ornate engravings, at least from the extent guns available today.*38d

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-- Beginning in the mid-1860’s he began to used increasingly intricate and delicate “rose and scroll” patterns. He abandoned depictions of wildlife.*38e

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-- And by the 1880’s and 1890’s his tight “rose and scroll” engravings were tasteful and pleasing and pretty ubiquitous although he also advertised plain-Jane “keepers guns." *38f

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There are guns with wildlife scenes engraved on them, mostly from the muzzle-loading period. Some of this engraving is quite realistic. however, many of the depictions of birds and animals on Reilly engravings are cartoonish.*38g Some experienced London gunsmiths (David Trevallion among them) have said that many of the engravers in London at the time had never seen a wild deer, partridge or duck in their lives and drew from impressions or from others’ sketches. Whatever, it appears Reilly did not specialize in fine depictures of wild-life. This was left to other, higher-end makers.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Most London gun-makers during the 1860’s used outworker trade engravers. However, because Reilly was engraving about everything he sold at the time, retailed pistols, retailed long-guns, bayonets, knives, etc. - it is possible that he had an in-house engraving capability. This would have enabled him to meet orders twice as fast as other gun-makers and perhaps reduce costs.


*39 1828-1900; Reilly Barrels These are observations on Reilly Barrels obtained from looking primarily at photos of some 700 guns. For more complete understanding of Reilly's barrels, Dr. Drew Hause has an excellent publication on Damascus; William Greener's 1847 book is still as good as anything from that era.

. . . . .London proofed: From the beginning of the firm in 1828 until bankruptcy in 1912 nearly all serial numbered Reilly’s, i.e. guns built by Reilly, with original barrels were proofed in London.*39a There are a very few exceptions out of some 600 existing guns. This said, there are some difficulties in definitively proving this conclusion:
. . . . . . . . . .-- Research is severely hampered by the fact that auction houses and even individual owners rarely include proof marks (or patent use marks) in their advertisements.
. . . . . . . . . .-- In addition from the 1870’s-on numerous surviving Reilly’s have been reproofed over and over again or rebarreled making identification of original poofs sometimes difficult.*39b
However, for now for 98% of extant Reilly guns the truism holds – if it were serial numbered by Reilly, it was proofed in London.

. . . . .Bored and finished by Reilly, 1836-47: As early as 1837 Reilly advertised that he was boring/finishing his own barrels. For how long he continued to do so is unknown, but throughout the 1840’s he advertised fixing others’ bad barrels by reboring them adding, “no cure, no pay.”*39c Testimonies as to the excellence of Reilly-bored percussion gun barrels can be found.*39d.

What machinery Reilly was using to bore his barrels is unknown. In 1826 London barrel-maker Lancaster patented a machine that could finish a barrel precisely. It was improved in 1838 allowing the bored barrel and chamber to be precisely aligned along one axis.*39e It is possible that Reilly obtained one of the Lancaster machines.

. . . . .Barrel Lengths: From an analysis of some 700 extant photographed Reilly's:
. . . . . . . . . .— Rifles: After the arrival of the pin-fire in 1856 the normal barrel lengths for Reilly center-break rifles including big bore game guns were 26” to 28”. There are exceptions of course; a small rook rifles might have a 24" barrel. (An 1861 advertisement states rifle barrels could be obtained in 24, 26 and 28 inch lengths).
. . . . . . . . . .-- Shotguns: The standard Reilly break-action shotgun barrel length after 1856 was 30”. There are a few shorter barrels for .410, and boy’s guns. There are longer barrels up to 36” for big bore, center-break shotguns. In general If a 12 bore shotgun has barrels shorter than 30"'s, they have either been cut down, re-barreled or repurposed from a rifle.

. . . . .Damascus: Reilly from the beginning used Damascus barrels for long-guns and for high-end percussion pistols (he ceased making pistols in the late 1830’s). Reilly continued to make Damascus barreled guns until bankruptcy in 1912 although for the most part his early 1900’s production had switched to steel. His Damascus patterns were conservative, and based on a review of about 600 surviving guns, fell into three types:
. . . . . . . . . .-- 1820-1865 – Variations of a Plain English Stub Twist*39f

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. . . . . . . . . .-- 1865-1912 – Crolle patterns – variations of Large scroll, Symmetric, or Annular Crolle.*39g

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. . . . . . . . . .— Other Patterns. There were a few seemingly more exotic patterns but they were rare.*39h

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Note: Dr. Hause identified the patterns in the above footnotes.

. . . . .Barrel Blanks: Where Reilly obtained his Damascus barrel blanks is unknown.
. . . . . . . . . .-- There was a well known barrel forger in London William Fullerd used by Manton, Purdey and others, However, Fullerd barrels are stamped with a â€WF,” *39i None have been found on Reilly’s so far. (The surviving guns from this period are few and their barrels for the most part not photographed). Fullerd closed his forge in 1844.
. . . . . . . . . .-- Presumably at least during the 1820’s-1850’s Reilly's barrel blanks came from Birmingham and the plain patterns, so different from Continental flamboyance seem to bear this out. (Purdey used similar patterns at the time).
. . . . . . . . . .-- There is one Reilly shotgun from the early 1860’s which has a faint Liège proof-mark on it overlain with London proofs,*39j possibly indicating that by then, if not earlier, Reilly like other London gunmakers might have begun using Belgian barrels.
. . . . . . . . . .-- By 1890 UK Damascus barrels came from Liège per numerous references.

. . . . .Initials on Barrels, 1870’s: In the early 1870’s, shortly after the changeover in Damascus patterns, a series of barrels have workers'' initials on them. These began around SN 17500. Since these barrels were sourced in Birmingham (by all accounts) they likely are Birmingham barrel maker initials; Similar initials have been noted on other Birmingham barrels used by other makers. There are 10 examples, SN 17552 (WJ), 17626 (WJ), 18593 (WJ), 19500 (GE), 20249 (BE), 20255 (BE), 20466 (GE), 21361 (CP), 21369 (FR), and 21839 (WE), the last being numbered in 1879. Whose initials are these is still unknown. However, they are similar in style.*39k
. . . . . . . . . .Note: There may be initials on other Reilly barrels but again this sort of detail is often not included in advertisements. Other Reilly barrels before, during and after this period do not have initials.*39l

. . . . .Steel Barrels, 1882: In January 1882 Reilly advertised for the first time guns equipped with Whitworth compressed fluid steel barrels (originally an 1865 patent extended in 1879 for 5 years).*39m The first extant Reilly with a confirmed Whitworth barrel is SN 23574, a 12 gauge SxS pigeon gun hammer-gun owned by Cyril Adams. It is dated per the chart to December 1881.*39n


*40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly’s; Reilly Engraving and Marketing Others' Guns:

No Reilly SN-not made by Reilly: In addition to making his own guns, selling used guns, etc. Reilly, throughout the history of the company marketed guns produced by others but finished and engraved by him. It was a major line of revenue for the company. These guns sported the Reilly name and address, but were not serial-numbered. If gun has no serial number, but has the Reilly name on it, he either 1) obtained the gun “in the white” and finished it or 2) it came to him complete from the manufacturer and he simply engraved and marketed it. He did not claim to have made it.

To differentiate, Reilly’s serial numbered guns were made by him; they include his own guns and guns he made using others’ patents under license such as the previously pictured Terry Patent breech loader, Prince Patent breech Loaders, Nuthall’s Patent, Gen. Jacob’s Patent, etc.

This was not at all unique to Reilly…other gunmakers did the same thing; Cogswell & Harrison had a “retail” branch (they placed a "retailed" insert plate on the guns); Holland & Holland were marketing a Lee-Speed at the turn of the century.

As examples in the first instance, there are the following:
-- A number of classic looking Reilly SxS’s with Birmingham proofs, *40a,
-- Enfields likely marketed to the Yoemanry Militia*40b,
-- Needle-fire Rook Rifles made in an ubiquitous style, market by many gun makers and the time and possibly made by Adams*40c
-- Complex four-barreled high-end muzzle loaders from 1858-59 with London proofs but no Reilly serial number.*40d
-- Reilly put his name on 6,000 Reilly-Comblain breech-loading carbines, not one of which is serial numbered.
-- The same applied in the 1870’s to Reilly Martini-Henry’s and Swinburns.

As for the second instance, during this period Reilly retailed several complete guns. These include:
-- Sharpes Rifles, for which Reilly became a UK distributor. (Sharps had obtained a contract with UK in 1855 for 6,000 guns; They saw action in the mutiny and along the NWFP but were not adopted generally by the army and were phased out after the adoption of the Snider; Sharps along with Prince may have been an early Reilly hope for a large Arsenal contract; he continued to advertise them for 20 years.*40e
-- Winchesters - at least three are still in existence;*40f
-- An Adams Beaumont revolving cylinder carbine from 1855*40g; among many others.
-- As the 60’s and 70’s progressed, he offered ready made guns from other makers (including Westley-Richards) as well in his advertisements.

These non-serial numbered Reilly’s cannot help with the Reilly date chart. Nevertheless examples are provided in order to establish their existence and articulate the concept of Reilly putting guns on the market with his name that he did not claim to make.
*41 Reilly and Pistols

Reilly always retailed pistols of all types from the beginning of the firm to the end. He engraved them and put his name on them. However, after 1837 he did not serial number them although Reilly was still listed as “gun and pistol makers” in business anthologies as previously noted in chapter 6.

By 1859 he was selling all types of pistols and revolvers, Trantor, Adams, Colt, Smith&Wesson;*41a He sold Howdah's, pepperboxes, duelers, derringers, Flobert, etc.*41b Some of these are extremely well made.*41c Some are highly engraved such as a gold-washed Trantor revolver that certainly did not leave the Trantor factory like that.*41d But, because he did not serial number these guns, he did not build them.

There are accounts of people buying a Reilly revolver, walking out of the shop and committing suicide on the sidewalk. An Irish terrorist purchased a Reilly revolver in 1898 meaning harm and was arrested; It is interesting that the Reilly shop foreman at the time James Curtis suddenly couldn't identify the man who bought it (Reilly's were Irish of course).

Reilly apparently did assemble foreign made revolvers from parts imported from Liège possibly as early as 1860. But Reilly did not serial number assembled guns. Thus pistols are ignored in this study; they cannot be used to date Reilly long-guns except for those with surviving cases with original trade labels, which helped build a data-base of Reilly case labels.

Reilly marketed Revolvers and dozens of other types of handguns including custom target specials:

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Note: A Reilly pepperbox may have been wielded by "Flashman" in the novel Flashman and the Mountain of Light, by George MacDonald Fraser.*41e

Note2: An 1890's "Vampire Kit" exists with cross, hammer and wooden spikes, vials for holy water, bible, mirror (for checking if the suspected Vampire has a reflection), various holy relics etc. along with two Reilly, 316 High Holborn pocket pistols firing silver bullets. Whether Reilly marketed the kit is questionable (Vampire stories originated in the 1890's).*41f

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*42 Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition Following is a cursory look at Reilly’s involvement in the cartridge business, which came to be a major revenue producer for him. Specialists in cartridges may have more information on the subject.

For the first five years of Lefaucheaux pin-fire history in the UK, 1854-1860 the majority of the shells and shell hulls used were imported from France. There is a Reilly 12 gauge rifle pin-fire cartridge dated 1855 probably imported from France.*42a The French hulls of course were meant to be reloaded. During the 1858 trials a young Reilly employee was designated to do this task to assure all guns had equal charges, demonstrating Reilly’s involvement in the reloading business.*42b

The principle UK maker of shells and ammunition Eley seems to have begun offering pin-fire shells in early 1858; the first Eley ad for a breech loading cartridge is 02 January 1858 (possible for a rifle such as a Prince) and the first specifically for a pin-fire shotgun in May 1858.*42c These Eley cartridges initially received bad reviews per letters to the Field.*42d.

In a letter he wrote to “The Field” in December 1857, EM Reilly complained about hide-bound practices of the UK cartridge establishment and the inability of UK ammunition makers to manufacture pin-fire shells even when given complete examples, plans and drawings.*42e By that time Reilly was guaranteeing access to ammunition for gentlemen who bought his pin-fires.*42f

In an 1859 book by the editor of “The Field” the author “Stonehenge” pointed out that even at that late date at the very end of decade, French shells could be found in every town in UK and were clearly predominant.*42g

By 1858 it appears that Reilly, frustrated with Eley and possibly influenced by France, saw a marketing opportunity and had made the decision to go into the shotgun shell manufacturing and sales business. Reilly from the beginning of his involvement with pinfires, mentioned “cartridges” in his advertisements for breech-loaders. However, the first stand-alone mention in a Reilly advertisement of cartridge’s being sold appeared in June 1859.*42h Who made the cartridge casings for Reilly is unknown. It is possible that he imported them from France under contract with his name stamped on the base, or he may have found a local manufacturer.

Note: A drawing of a Reilly cartridge which appeared in a book published in early 1860 shows a pinfire 12 bore cartridge with only "Reilly" stamped on the case much like the 1855 12 bore cartridge pictured above.*42i The name of the company changed to E.M. Reilly & Co. circa Feb 1859.*42j. This may indicate that Reilly was filling and selling his own cartridges in 1858-early 1859.

Centripetal Machine: In 1861 he patented a new machine for crimping shells called a “centripetal device.”*42k This patent was renewed twice in 1891 and 1892.*42l

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Cost of pinfire cartridges: In 1859 “Stonehenge” recorded the cost of French pin-fire cartridges, 2£ 10s per 1000 cartridges. In modern dollars that would be around $450 for 1000 cartridges, an average of about $11.25 per box of 25, $.45 per cartridge.*42m. (Cheaper than RST today).

Reilly continued to manufacture and sell his own shells for the next 40 years making the jump to marketing centerfire hulls and cartridges around 1865. This was apparently a significant stream of income for the company. Reilly shells (in centerfire format) have been found in archeological digs including an investigation of an old whaling station in New Zealand*42n and in Saskatchewan, Canada.*42o By the 1890's he was providing buyers with options on smokeless powders.*42p.

There is some question about if and when he began to use Eley as a source for his cartridge hulls; the Reilly cartridges unearthed in the archeological dig in Canada allegedly were made by Eley (no pictures to confirm this).*42q. However, in 1868 Reilly definitively for the first time advertised the sale of "Eley's best quality green case" cartridges (50 shillings per thousand empty; 150 shillings per thousand loaded with proper charge). Years later In 1899 Reilly again began advertising the sale of Eley cartridges in his store. This was perhaps an acknowledgement that his cartridge business had succumbed to the weight of specialized mass production.*42r.


*43 Early 1860’s: Reilly and Cutlery, Swords, Bayonets

Business anthologies at this time identified EM Reilly as both gun and pistol manufacturers and sword/cutlery makers.*43a Reilly's name has been found engraved on bayonets and swords from the era. Bayonets were a part of the Yoemanry Militia “kit” and Reilly included a bayonet with each militia rifle he sold, enough volume to make a subsidiary business profitable.*43b

One surviving Reilly bayonet is a slightly modified version of the “official” “sword bayonets” attached to Gen. Jacob’s patent SxS’s which fired an explosive bullet; Reilly made the guns under license.*43c


*44 Reilly Accessories

Reilly like many London gunmakers marketed numerous accessories for his guns. Reilly devoted a lot of time advertising for the Yoemanry Militia, organized in the late 1850’s and offered everything from knapsacks to cartridge belts.*44a A unit he outfitted, the Princesses’ Own, won acclaim for their showmanship, marching and appearance.*44b

Reilly sold everything associated with the trade, cartridge boxes, cartridge belts, bullet molds, likely the products of small cottage industries within London.*44c


. . . . . VIII. FORGING AHEAD:1860 – 1867:


*45 1850’s-1895: Reilly staff; quality young employees:

Without company records available it is difficult to determine who worked for Reilly during the 90 years of the company’s existence. This difficulty is not confined to Reilly but rather is one found across the board in London gun making except perhaps for some elite gunmaker such as Purdey (three of their engravers are known) and those whose records still are intact. The UK census for 1831-41-51 asked only the interviewees occupation. 1861-71-81 the census also asked employers the number of workers employed.

The only way to catch a glimpse of who was working at Reilly during this time is if the employees surfaced in some news report or if they self identified later. There are four so identified shop managers and one store manager in France:

. . . . .John Baker – 185?-1861:*45a Not much is known about Baker. He was born in 1822 and was married. He appeared in a court case on behalf of Reilly in April 1861, when Reilly was seeking payment for a volunteer militia gun from a deadbeat. In June 1861 he registered the patent for Reilly for the shotgun shell crimper and per a newspaper article in October 1861 he accidentally poisoned himself. Since the patent was registered for 315 Oxford Street, he must have been managing that shop. He lived in Westminister Parish, probably within a mile of the Oxford Street manufactory. There seems to be no record of him in the 1861 London census.

. . . . .W. Jennings – 1869:*45b. Jennings was identified as Reilly’s Shop Foreman in a 01 May 1869 series of articles about a fellow who committed suicide after buying a revolver from Reilly (specific store not identified).

. . . . .Francis Davis –1870:*45c He testified for Reilly at the 1870 hearings for violating UK neutrality in the Franco-Prussian war by trying to ship 2,000 shells to his shop in Paris in unmarked packages. No further information on Davis.

. . . . .Ruben Hambling - 1884-85:*45d He may have started out with Reilly in the late 1850's - ran his own gun shop in the midlands then back to Reilly:

. . . . . . . . . .“On the matter of Reuben Hambling, he was a gunmaker. Born in 1833 in Blackawton, Devon, he apprenticed under his father, William Bartlett Hambling. He married in London in 1858, had a daughter there in 1861, and was listed in the 1861 census. He was most likely working as a journeyman for a London gunmaker, name unknown. He was in Manchester from 1865-1869, with his own shop at 27 New Bailey Street, Salford. He may have occupied another address for a time, on Bexley Street. He then moved to High Wycombe northwest of London around 1872 and lived for a time in Brighton (1874-1875), possibly working with his brother William, another gunmaker. From at least 1884-1885 he lived in Paddington, London, on Ashmore Rd. This may have been the time when he was employed by Reilly. After this, he moved to Ashford in Kent, with a business at 41 New Street. He lived at number 39. According to the 1891 census his son, Roger, was apprenticed to him. Reuben Hambling died on 12 December 1891. His son continued the business until 1894.": (Courtesy of Steve Nash)

. . . . . . . . . .Per the Internet Gun Club: "As there is both a New Bailey Street and a New Bexley Street, there is no way of knowing if the paper made an error, or if Reuben Hambling moved from one location to another. He didn't stay long in Manchester and later worked for E. M. Reilly & Co. in London, and finally in Ashford, in Kent. Reuben Hambling died in 1891."

. . . . .James Curtis – 1895:*45d,e He testified in a trial re the purchase of a Reilly revolver by an Irish terrorist (and on the day of the trial conveniently couldn't identify the purchaser).

. . . . .M. Poirat- 1868-84? Paris:*45f Manager of Reilly store at 2 rue Scribe, Paris, who tried to convince the new 3rd Republic to buy 6,000 Chassepot rifles stored in Birmingham from Reilly in fall 1870 - Paris still under siege, Reilly's rifles in his 2 rue Scribe shop confiscated by the revolution. (This would have been totally a violation of UK “neutrality”...far worse that 2,000 shells but he might have gotten away with it. The size of the crime would have been justified by the profits). Poirat was obviously a salesman, not a technician).

There are two young workers identified by last name only, who were highly complimented in the press leading to the conclusion that Reilly carefully screened his young employees and meticulously trained them:

. . . . .Mr. Bennett - 1858:*45g He carefully loaded rounds for the guns used in "The Field" trials of 1858 and 1859.

. . . . .Mr. McNamara - 1862:*45h He was responsible for guiding visitors through the Reilly 1862 London World's Fair exhibit.


*46 1861: Reilly manufacturing and sales:

As the new decade of the 1860’s began and in the lead-up to the 1862 London Exposition, Reilly’s two workshops were busy. Reilly was making about 430 serial numbered guns a year, more than one a day, more than Boss, Purdey and Haris Holland combined. He had increased his production by 30% after the spurt of orders received at the Paris Exposition Universelle in 1855 and with the demand for pinfire center-break guns probably, even with the addition of 315, was hard put to satisfy it.

His reputation as a gun maker after the two trials and with the opening of 315 Oxford Street blossomed. A tacit endorsement by “The Field” quoted in Reilly ads probably helped.*46a

-- Guns under License: In addition to making his own percussion and center-break guns and various breech loading rifles, he began to make guns using patent use numbers from other gun makers (as mentioned in a previous chapter).

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. . . . .1861: Dougall “Lockfast” patent:*46b In 1861 Reilly advertised guns using the Dougall “Lockfast” patent (Patent 1128, May 1860).*46b(1) Dougall licensed production of his patent to other gunmakers including Belgians; among them in UK were Benjamin Cogswell, W & J Rigby, E M Reilly and John Lyell of Aberdeen. *46b(2) According to Crudrington & Baker, an entry for payment by Reilly to Dougall for a patent use number exists demonstrating that Reilly likely made the gun.
. . . . . . . . . .There is one extant Reilly Lockfast, sold on Gunstar some years ago unfortunately without mention of its serial number.*46b(3) It probably has the Dougall Patent use stamp like known examples.*46b(4)
. . . . . . . . . .It resembles Dougall SN 2186 in the Royal Armouries.*46b(5)

. . . . .1861: “Double grip” - “Jones Underlever:*46c In 1861 Reilly mentioned for the first time in advertisements his manufacture of the “double grip” system.*46c(1) This was Greener’s description of the Jones underlever patented in 1859. The patent was released to the general public in January 1862. Assuming that the “double grip’ referred to in the 1861 advertisement is indeed a Jones underlever, Reilly would have had to pay royalties to someone. After the patent went public, the U-L became Reilly’s go-to action for his own guns;
. . . . . . . . .SN 11937: 1861. The first extant Reilly with a Jones U-L*46c(2): E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London; 4 bore, Shotgun single barrel; U-L, non-rebounding hammer gun. (possibly converted from a percussion gun.)
. . . . . . . . .SN 12316: 1862.*46c(3) E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 14 bore, Shotgun SxS. pin-fire, U-L hammer gun, non-rebounding hammer, grip safety, extractor.
. . . . . . . . .SN 12527: 1862.*46c(4) E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 10 bore, Shotgun SxS. pin-fire (converted to C-F), U-L hammer gun, rebounding hammers (added).
. . . . . . . . .SN 33457: The last U-L so far photographed is 33457 (1890)*46c(5) E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 8 bore SxS Shotgun. U-L, hammer-gun; pistol grip.
There is a 10 bore 35012 – 1903 – allegedly with a Jones underlever but with no picture thus not confirmed. Assuredly, though, if one wanted an U-L in 1911, Reilly would get it for you.

-- Developer of inventions: Various gunmakers and experimenters chose Reilly to develop and make their inventions:

. . . . .1859: Nuthall’s Patent:*46d In 1859 Major Nuthall’s patent rifle and ball were developed and built by Reilly per “The Field.”*46d(1) Nuthall rounded the rifling of the barrel to prevent fouling and this was found in a number of subsequent Reilly's. Reilly advertised using Nuthall’s Patent on his Enfield rifles:*46d(2). Reilly was one of two authorized manufacturers, the other been Turner.
. . . . . . . . . .While no Reilly Nuthall patent guns have been found, one made by Turner & Co. of Birmingham still exists. 31 ½ in. (80 cm.) barrel sighted to 1000 yards, marked 'MAJOR NUTHALL'S PATENT'; rounded groove, Birmingham proof marks:*46d(3)

. . . . .1861: .451 Enfield target rifle:*46e Reilly began making a .451 Enfield.*46e(1) which won marksmanship trophies according to a series of articles in “The Field.” Reilly was advertising “rounded off” rifling to reduce fouling (Nuthall Patent above).*46e(2). However the exact specifications of his match rifles are not clear other than the use of .451 elongated bullets and 5 groove rifling:
. . . . . . . . . .SN 12073, Reilly Enfield match rifle.*46e(3)

. . . . .1861: .451 Enfield experimental rifling: Writings in "The Field" from the era indicate extensive experiments with rifling were being conducted by everyone, this just a year after Henry filed his shallow groove rifling patent and after the Whitworth hexagonal .451 high velocity bullet made such an impact. One article referred to a rifling system with shallow groove rifling created by a Volunteer unit which Reilly was making.*46f

. . . . .1861: Capt. Scott's Patent Progressive Twist Rifling and bullet.*46g Reilly was sole manufacturer.

. . . . .1861: General Ray's Pattern Brigade Rifle with elongated bullet.*46h

. . . . .1861: Cape Guns:*46i Reilly was one of the first to advertise “Cape Guns” (22 May 1958, “The Field”).*46i(1) The earliest extant serial numbered Reilly cape guns are:
. . . . . . . . . SN 12207 from late 1861, E.M Reilly & Co., 15 ga/.488 cal percussion gun and from early 1862.
. . . . . . . . . SN 12251 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London; SxS Cape rifle .25 bore/.500 cal; percussion hammer gun.*46i(2).

. . . . .1861: Bastin Lepage sliding action:*46j He also advertised a sliding action which was certainly Bastin Lepage. A number of London gunmakers at the time were using it. Purdey made 27 Bastin action guns; Durs Egg, Lylell, and others advertised and made them as well. (No extant Reilly Bastin action exists).

-- Retail display: Others chose Reilly’s retail shops to display their new inventions. An example is “The Field” itself; In 1861 ”The Field” decided to market a screw-on action for an Enfield which could act as both a breech loader and a muzzle loader.*46k. It was displayed at Reilly 's.

-- Auction sales: He sold off massive amounts of surplus guns, for instance auctioning 1,500 Enfields in 1861.*46l

-- Dog dealer? And oddly enough there are four advertisements over the course of 40 years for hunting dogs being sold by individuals, details to be obtained from Reilly's business. Whether Reilly himself was involve in selling dogs or whether he was just a clearing house of sorts is unknown.*46m

By 1861 Reilly’ had become known as a gun manufacturer who could get innovative projects made. It appears he rarely said, “No,” to an idea. (It is hard to imagine a gun maker such as Purdey being open to itinerant gun experimenters' concepts). His manufacturing of military rifles such as the Enfield, Jacob’s rifle, Terry Patent breech loader, and Prince patent breech loader, and his selection to make explosive bullets for Baker and Jacob, cutting edge technology at the time, only increased his reputation for seeking out innovations.

Again, Reilly was not an inventor himself; he was a business man. But he had an eye for what might sell. He more resembled the art dealer Paul Durand-Ruel, who funded the Impressionists. Reilly now had bigger things in mind, to wit a military contract using his reputation as a gun manufacturer. But first he was carefully planning his upcoming exhibit at the 1862 London Universal Exposition.


*47 1862: Reilly and the 1862 London exposition:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

In 1862 Reilly showed at the London International exposition.*47a Reilly placed great store in publicity from such fairs for his two workshops and carefully planned his exhibit. Just about every gun maker of consequence in the UK were there with UK gunmakers showing marked improvements in their inventiveness over 1851 but with still a way to go to match French barrel decoration and Liège prices.

For a thorough review of the gun exhibits and the status of UK gun making at the time see the section on guns written by John Rigby in "The Record of the International Exhibition," published in 1862 (Glasgow, W. MacKenzie publishers).

Reilly had a large exhibit which showed the guns mentioned in ads above, cape guns, breech loading double-bite pinfires, Dougall patent, muzzle-loaders with Brazier locks as an (expensive) option, revolvers, etc.*47b and apparently showed his own improvements in the pinfires.*47c J.D. Dougall won the overall Gold Medal. Reilly won a sort of “honorable mention” medal which had to be disappointing. It may be that the judges were more engineering minded in their approach in this fair and were looking at workable innovations.

As mentioned before, his careful marketing planning was evident; He was lauded for the intelligent young man who attended his exhibit to explain the guns and take orders (in marked contrast to Lang).*47d Per newspaper accounts he also displayed a gold washed 12 bore muzzle-loader shotgun*47e which may still exist (SN 12532).*47f SN 12532 is housed in a case with the Prince of Wales feathers on it; it was bought to be given as a gift, possibly to an Indian Rajah; This may be one of the reasons why Reilly tried to claim to be a gun maker to the Royal Family the following spring.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


*48 1863: Attempts to Curry Favor with the British Royal Family:

Throughout the 1860's Reilly guns were purchased by various members of the British royal family, usually to give as gifts to foreign dignitaries or persons who had done favors for the family. This included guns bought by Prince Albert Edward (Later King Edward VII).*48a and his younger brother Prince Alfred (later Duke of Saxe-Coburg).*48b Reilly tried to obtain, but without success, a Royal Warrant as "Gun Maker to the Royal Family."

Top: Prince Albert Edward (King Edward VII)
Bottom: Prince Alfred (Duke of Saxe-Coburg)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

For a few months in 1863 Reilly published advertisements associating himself with the Royal Family based apparently on these royal purchases of Reilly guns. He also spent hundreds of pounds on elaborate gas light decorations to his buildings on the wedding of the Prince*48c and on various Royal anniversaries.*48d He apparently was slapped down pretty quickly and after November 1863, such claims never again surfaced.

Note: The Reilly’s were Irish Catholic. E.M. at least appears to have been involved with the church*48e and to have campaigned against religious discrimination against Catholics in UK.*48f Whether this influenced his ability to obtain a “Royal Warrant” in a very Anglican anti-Catholic England at the time or even to win a contract with Arsenal is problematic. And, one cannot overemphasize the prejudice and discrimination against Irish Catholics at this time in England.


*57 1863-65: Reilly’s Sporting Gun Business

Returning to the early 1860’s and Reilly’s sporting gun business, Reilly was numbering from 400 to 450 guns a year from 1858 to 1868, a pretty consistent number which perhaps reflects the maximum he could produce at the time (still more than Lang, Purdey and Haris Holland combined). Breech loaders shared place of honor with muzzle-loaders especially during the American War Between the States period.

However, it was a time of dynamic change in the UK sporting gun business. Purdey patented his “double-bite” system (pat. 1104) in 1863 which combined with Scotts 1865 Spindle (Pat 2752) became a standard; Reilly was to make (and pay royalties for) dozens over the next 14 years. Snap-actions were introduced. Retractable firing pins. Westley-Richards began building “dolls head” fasteners, etc.

Reilly was not an innovator; but he kept abreast of all new patents changes; he advertised them, paid the royalties and built the guns. There is one 1865 advertisement which pretty well sums up what the entrepreneur E.M Reilly was all about: Reilly in an ad discussing a rifle construction system advocated by James Forsyth, had this to say:

. . . .“We are prepared to waive all the existing prejudices of “the Trade,”
. . . . .and to make Double and Single Rifles to order, on the principles laid down
. . . . .by Mr. Forsyth, and to have the Rifles carefully and accurately tested,
. . . . .so as to warrant their performance.”
*57a

If a customer wanted it, Reilly would build it.


*58 1863-73: Pin-Fire vs Center Fire

Center Fire inventions were available early in the history of break-action breech-loaders, Lancaster's patent from the late 1850's being an example. However the pin-fire won out for a variety of reasons.

In 1861 Daw took out his center-fire patent 203, a copy of Pottet’s French patent. And by 1862 in John Rigby’s assessment of London Exposition breech-loaders, the advantages of center-fire system were obvious. (Rigby bet on Lancaster;*58a The British gun-press on Daw.*58b)

By the mid-1860's the advantages of a center-fire system for center-break guns became more and more evident. Eley broke Pottet’s patent for center-fire shells in 1865. This coupled with the 1866 invention of the shotgun center-fire primer shell by Berdan in America and almost simultaneously by Boxer in the UK made center-fire shotguns practical and viable along with certain other inventions such as the Anson fore-end. In the 1867 Paris Exposition Reilly featured center-fire long guns.*58c However, center-fire systems did not apparently supplant pin fires until around 1872. Extant Reilly pin-fires far out number center-fire guns until that time.

. . . . .-- Reilly’s first newspaper advertisements for “Direct-Action Central-Fire” appeared in 1865.*58d
. . . . . . . . . .1865 – ad in “The Life of Lord Palmerston”
. . . . . . . . . .03 Jul 1865, “London Daily News”

. . . . .-- SN 13688 (1865) - The first existing Reilly center-break center-fire long-gun is a 20 bore single-barrel under-lever hammer-gun shotgun (converted from an original rifle) with a Joseph Brazier action dated 1865.*58e

. . . . .-- SN 14115 (1866) - Reilly's first extant center-fire shotgun is SxS 12 bore U-L non-rebounding hammer gun dated 1866.*58f

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Note: One other invention from this time helped cement centerfire primacy, the invention of rebounding hammers patented by Stanton in February 1867. Most surviving Reilly guns both pinfire and center-fire from this age were later converted to center-fire with rebounding hammers. One would think this was the type of patent that would be immediately adopted. However, the majority of existing, original condition Reilly's up to the 1870's have non-rebounding actions. In fact there continued to be non-rebounding hammers on extant Reilly built guns up until the 1880's (just as there were Reilly built muzzle loaders). The London gun trade was extremely conservative.


*59 1866: Reilly and Purdey Kerfuffle

To illustrate the state of Reilly fortunes and confidence at the time, in 1866 there was a widely reported dust-up between Reilly and Purdey. A salesman at Reilly reportedly told a client that essentially Reilly guns were the same as Purdey's but without the extra-charge for a name, implying Reilly made them for Purdey. Purdey was indignant and fired off an emotionally charged letter demanding retraction.*59a

Reilly not only rejected the charge but in an infamous poem, quoted several times the phrase "exactly the same"...thumbing his nose at the gun aristocracy.

A place-beyond all we in London know
To Messrs. E.M. Reilly & Co.
What other houses charge sixty-five pounds
For, and keep you four or five months (which astounds),
In waiting for; one exactly the same
For which only ÂŁ45 they claim
Having it ready too in thirty days
Or less, for which they merit highest praise
Exactly the same I've already said
The Gun shall be, by my Art-Heroes made,
But only here to give what's rightly due
You may be able thus to strike more true;. . . .

*59b

(This is not a way to win friends, obviously)

So, the question remains. Did Reilly make guns in the white for Purdey? Purdey didn’t exactly deny it. He just begged the question and deflected.


. . . . . IX: REILLY, ARSENAL AND THE BRITISH ARMY


*49 1863-1872: Attempts to Win a Military Contract; Reilly Builds Military Rifles:

From at least the 1850's the Reilly's thought about trying to win a lucrative military contract from the British government. Reilly’s possible financial involvement with Prince and his building Prince Patent breech loading rifles, his making Terry Patent breech loading rifle (Chap *31 – p.78), Gen. Jacob’s SxS percussion rifle and various Enfields (Chap *30 – p.78) and Enfield rifling variations (Chap *46 – p.85) have been discussed.

The next five chapters somewhat out of chronological order will deal with Reilly building five military Rifles: the Green Brothers Patent Breech Loader, Snider-Enfields, Reilly-Comblain breech loaders, Martini-Henry’s and a M-H variant the Swinburn and Reilly's own 1869 patent for an exploding bullet that he attempted to sell to Arsenal.

Reilly never obtained a major contract (as far as the present day evidence goes). He did build (or in the case of Martini-Henry "assemble"), privately sell and engrave all sorts of British military rifles - Enfields, Snider's, Martini's and later Lee-Speeds; He hawked these guns to the Yoemanry Volunteer Militia and to rifle clubs at wholesale prices, versions of them to Military personnel going abroad and to big-game hunters for 50 years. But, unless he built them himself he did not serial number these guns.

*50 – 1863-1868: Reilly and the Green Brothers Patent Breech Loader:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The Green Bros. Patent 2002 Jun 1862 breech loader is integral to Reilly's story in the 1860’s. As such it is gone into in some detail. The conclusions are, Reilly built about 350 serial numbered Reilly Green Bros. rifles from 1864-1868 in his London workshops, all proofed in London. After 1868 production was likely transferred to Birmingham where another 3,000 may have been made over the course of a few years (depending on whether the patent use numbers remained consecutive; Reilly's pat use #'s seem more chronologically accurate than most). Reilly also made Green Bros. rifles for the trade. C1870 the patent was made by other trade makers with a decline in quality, the last patent use number found being in the 5000’s.

The Green Brothers, CJ and J. were well known in the 1850’s as innovative gun makers in London. For several years they were in partnership with Prince (dissolved in 1859). In 1860 they took out a provisional patent on a breech-loading rifle. The idea was pretty ingenious. Attach a second breech loading chamber to the back of an Enfield and use a bolt actuated plunger to push the charge and bullet into the original chamber, then use the ordinary hammer and usual cap. The gun could be converted back into a muzzle loader simply by unscrewing the action and replacing the barrel plug. (This sounds remarkably like the action advertised by “The Field” and displayed at Reilly’s shop in summer 1861).*50a In June 1862 the Green Bros received patent nr. 2002 for the invention.

As mentioned previously Reilly had some sort of relationship with the Green's and Prince, possibly a financial stake since Reilly did not sign the March 1858 open letter in favor of Prince’s rifle. This relationship with the Green's must have continued to develop in some way and in April 1863 Reilly announced in a newspaper advertisement that he had obtained “sole manufacturing rights” to the gun.*50b Reilly’s early involvement in making breech-loaders and in bringing others’ inventions to market might have persuaded the Green's to follow this track.

Reilly started experimenting with the action by modifying an old Reilly-made 1853 Enfield, SN 12002 (dated 1861), which still exists and carries patent use #1 (see below). This rifle was .577 caliber and retained the Enfield 39” barrels, weighing in at 9 lbs. 2 oz.

Reilly clearly wanted to market the rifle to Arsenal and to other militaries perhaps something which grew out of his experience with the Terry Patent and Prince Patent breech-loaders. In this he was prescient. In early 1864 the Prussians with Austrian allies attacked the Danes over the question of Schleswig. The early performance of the Dreyse needle gun (adopted by the Prussians in 1848 and well known to UK gunmakers) was impressive and panicked Europe’s armies into a frantic search for a similar gun.

By March 1864, while the Scheswig War was still raging, Reilly had the Green Bros Patent breech-loader ready for testing per newspaper advertisements.*50c He began production in late April, early May 1864, The production guns had 24” steel barrels and weighed in at a handy 7 lbs. 4 oz. A series of press articles that spring and summer touted the gun.*50d This happened to be concurrent with the decision by Arsenal to field a request to the UK gun makers to submit an interim breech-loading rifle for testing, to be used by the army until a completely new purpose-built breech-loader could be designed. (The fact that British diplomacy hopelessly bungled the Danish question added force to the recommendations; a combination of Prussia, Austria and France on the continent was more than England could handle).

In the 1865-66 Arsenal trials Reilly’s Green Bros Patent rifle performed well. However, ultimately the Snider action (American) was adopted in 1866. Like the Green Bros rifle the Snider action could be screwed onto an 1853 Enfield barrel and used with the original stock. It was simpler, cheaper and it could use the new “Boxer” cartridge with an integral primer doing away with the percussion cap; The Green Bros rifle could not be adapted to use the metallic cartridge. Nevertheless Reilly continued to advertise the Green Bros Patent and to make the guns as “sole manufacturer” in London up to at least 1868.

From patent use numbers it appears that Reilly made about 350 Green Bros rifles at his shops in London from May 1864 to Jun 1868. The guns, which were built at both 502 New Oxford Street and 315 Oxford Street, may have been made in “batches.” For instance Reilly SN 13326-13333 match patent use #'s #16 - #23; i.e. they were consecutively numbered rifles. SNs 14763-15047 (1867-68) with pat use #’s 177 - 325 would indicate that Reilly made 147 Green Bros rifles out of 300 guns serial numbered during the period September 1867 - February 1868, nearly 50% of his total production.

All extent Reilly Green Bros. rifles with a Reilly serial number were proofed in London. Following are seven existing Reilly-made Green Bros. Patent breech-loading rifles with Reilly serial numbers proofed in London and made by Reilly:

*12002 (original 1861) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, Enfield, London proof, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #1, Reilly manufacture (originally type 3 Enfield) *50e

13326 (spring 1864) - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, London proof, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #16, Reilly manufacture*50f

13333 (spring 1864)- E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London; .577 cal. Rifle; single barrel, London proof, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #23, Reilly manufacture*50g

xxxxx (fall 1865?) – E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Single barrel rifle, London proof, breech loader, hammer gun, Green Bros patent; Pat use #109, Reilly manufacture (from a Japanese site) *50h

13884 (summer 1865) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London; .577 single barrel, London proof, breech loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - use #159, Reilly manufacture*50i

14763 (Sept 1867) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Single barrel, London proof, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #177. Reilly manufacture.*50j

15047 (February 1868) - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 Rifle. Single barrel, London proof, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #325. Reilly manufacture.*50k

The last Reilly advertisement as “sole manufacturer” for the Green Bros. Patent was in 1868,*50l although in 1869 Reilly was still specifically mentioning Green Bros Patent guns in his advertisements.*50m (Green was replaced by the Reilly-Comblain in the “sole manufacturer” bragging rights category in his ads). Apparently sometime in 1868 Reilly transferred manufacture of Green Bros. rifles to Birmingham (where all his Reilly-Comblain’s were later made). The last Reilly with a Green Bros. patent use number is #3116, date indeterminate. (This number may not represent a chronological progression of the patent use numbers). The reason the rifle remained relevant into the 1870's might be due to the fact it could be used as a muzzle loader as advertised late on; a shooter could use regulation soft cartridges and ball in the gun from either end.

NSN – E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Single barrel, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #3116. Reilly contract in Birmingham? *50n

There is one known Green Bros rifle with Belgian proofs (no Reilly name)(Royal Armouries).*50o

In addition there are two Green Brothers breech loaders made by other London gun makers which in view of the fact that Reilly was “sole manufacture” of the patent, may have been made by Reilly for the trade. Alternatively in view of the Reilly rifle with pat use #3116 with no serial number, it is possible that Reilly gave-up being “sole manufacturer” in 1868 and subsequent rifles including his own were made in Birmingham:

Xxxxx – Issac Hollis & Sons. .577 cal. Single barrel, proof not mentioned, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #554. Reilly contract in Birmingham?, probably a chronologically accurate pat #.*50p

Xxxxx – Wilkinson, London. .577 cal. Single barrel, Brum proof, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #2858. Reilly contract in Birmingham?*50q

Finally, there is one Green Bros. rifle with no Reilly provenance, made in Birmingham, Pat use #5008, the last pat use # found. The gun is a sad shadow of the guns Reilly had produced with a stock that looks like a fence post and poor fittings and engraving.

Xxxxx – Green Bros Patent Central Fire. .577 cal. Single barrel, Brum proof, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #5008.*50r

Coda: In the late 1860's the Serbian army without a budget searched for a cheap way to modify Enfields available after the American War-Between-The-States to counter the Austrian Empire's upgrading of their rifles. They found they could buy the Green Brothers action cheaply (presumably from Birmingham) and modify the guns themselves. They had major problems with misfires - probably because of the ammunition.


*51 Reilly Builds (Civilian) Snider-Enfields:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Arsenal had been bombarded with proposals to adopt a breech-loading military rifle ever since the adoption of the percussion Enfield rifle in 1853. It was well known that the Prussians were using the Dreyse needle gun (since 1848),*5a but a hide-bound bureaucracy was wedded to the percussion gun. It was thought that breech loaders would only lead to inordinate waste of ammunition by the troops. In early 1864, however, the Dreyse rifle proved its worth on the battlefield*51b in the Schleswig war between the Prussians/Austrians and the Danes.

In July 1864 the British conducted a series of committee meetings on adopting an interim-measure breech-loader. Trials were held that September and ultimately the Snider action was selected.*51c (To repeat the Snider action could be used with the original Enfield barrel and stock and could fire the new Boxer metallic cartridge with integral primer. It was cheap and effective and an easy alteration - although by this time Arsenal realized that it need a higher velocity cartridge).

By fall 1865 Enfield Arsenal had constructed 10 “model guns” for use by gunmakers in making the actions. The Snider was ready for trials in spring 1866 and was formally adopted in September. The cartridges with integral primer redesigned by Col. Boxer were a key component of the new system.*51d

It had its first combat use in Napier’s expedition from India to Ethiopia (Abyssinia) to rescue some European hostages in 1867-1868 where it performed admirably.*51e (Note: Reilly pin-fire shotguns were carried by some on this expedition to supply meat to the troops.*51f)

Hundreds of thousands of percussion Enfields were converted to the Snider action. Arsenal modified only Enfields made 1859 or later. By late 1868 these had all been converted and new-made Snider's began coming out of Enfield and BSA by 1869; they had steel barrels rather than iron, the first in UK army history. The Snider was supplanted in 1874 when the Martini-Henry was adopted. However, it continued in use for 60 years. Sniders were entered in marksmanship contests up to 1920 in Canada and pre-war in Britain.

Reilly did not advertise specifically making or marketing Sniders until March 1867,*51g although it can be safely assumed that he was selling the guns as soon as, if not before, they were formally adopted. This is evident when he supplied a mixture of breech-loaders including a Snider, a Chassepot needle gun, and other breech-loading rifles for a lecture given to a Militia gathering in December 1866.*51h

Reilly converted a lot of percussion Enfields to Snider actions and advertised his ability to do the work.*51i This includes transforming Enfields built by other makers. This makes it difficult to know what were the actual characteristics of a true Reilly-built "new" Snider as opposed to those Enfields he upgraded to a Snider action. Reilly apparently sometimes stamped his own serial number on the guns he modified since he sort of (re)built them, meaning that some Reilly’s, ostensibly serial numbered after the Snider was adopted, were made before 1866 by other makers and have Birmingham proof marks and other non-Reilly characteristics:

. . . . .SN 16036 (1868) - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 original Hollis-made Enfield converted to a Snider breech-loading rifle, sporterized, by Reilly; The Reilly SN is stamped on the trigger guard tang and on the barrel. However, there is a faint stamp “Isaac Hollis & Co” (or Sons) on the barrel which has been over-stamped with “E.M.R. 16036.”*51j

However, Reilly also made and serial numbered “new” Sniders in and of themselves, a number of which are extant including large bore big-game rifles. These were civilian guns made before Arsenal began turning them out for the military; Reilly was not given a part of Arsenal contact to make military Sniders. Believe Reilly’s first extant specifically built civilian Snider is SN 15021 (early 1868). The last known (existing) Snider constructed by Reilly is a massive 8 bore big game rifle SN 18514 (1873).

How these Reilly-built Sniders are marked is not clear:

-- Most Reilly rifles have “Snider” stamped on the guns somewhere,*51k sometimes along with other patents (such as Newmarks). All seem to have the "arrow Snider Patent"; Some have the "arrow with GR" stamp which is allegedly "crown property proofed" perhaps meaning the bolt and action were obtained from arsenal. None have the "broad arrow W.D" (War Department) stamps indicating military Sniders.

-- It is not clea to whom Reilly paid royalties for use of the Snider Patent or how much these were. There are no patent use #'s. Jacob Snider had died before receiving a penny of compensation for his invention. So presumably the "Snider Patent" stamps were pro-forma abiding to the original patent with no obligations.

-- Nor is it clear where stamps are to be found or what stamps were required. Reilly Snider barrels have London proofs but there are exceptions as mentioned above. They vary from gun to gun (or they are not included in current day auction advertisements).

Note: Government Sniders allegedly were the first UK military gun serial numbered. SN stamps are found on the bolt, barrel, sight, and lever but are often not the same numbers or are simply missing. (These questions will be left for the thousands of Snider action enthusiasts to correct or solve).*51l

Following are a few significant (time-wise) Reilly-Sniders from a historical stand-point:

. . . . . -- SN 10021 (1856) – E.M. Reilly & Co, New Oxford Street, London (*re-labeled "E.M" after conversion) .577 Enfield 3 band, converted to Snider c.1866. The first extant Reilly-made 1853 Enfield rifle and paradoxically the earliest Reilly made Enfield converted to a Snider action. The name “E.M. Reilly & Co.“ was likely added when the conversion was completed.*51m

. . . . . -- SN 15021 (early 1868) - the first extant Reilly made specifically as a Snider-Enfield: E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 Snider Enfield Volunteer 3 band rifle. German silver rear sight cover stamped "Snider": No Photo-1997 auction.*51n

. . . . . -– SN 15239 (late summer 1868) - E.M. Reilly & Co. New Oxford St., London. .577. single barrel Snider Enfield. 15239 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street., London. .577. Rifle, Snider-Enfield 2-band; Brum proof.**51o

. . . . . -– SN 16607 (1870) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577. Rifle; Single barrel. Snider Enfield breech-loader. *51p

. . . . . -- SN 18514 (early 1873) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned); 8 bore. Single barrel rifle; Snider Patent & Newmark's Patent*51q
*52 1868-70: Reilly-Comblain Breech Loaders (No Reilly SN):

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Almost immediately after the Snider was formally adopted UK Secretary of War announced a new competition for a purpose-built breech loader. Possibly in response to this competition Reilly, still dreaming of a big military contract, in 1867 obtained sole manufacturing rights to Hubert-Joseph Comblain's breech loader, which had been patented in Belgium. The gun was assigned UK Patent No. 2778 of October 2nd, 1867 (Reilly is not mentioned in the patent). It fired the .577 “Boxer” (Snider) cartridge. The gun was featured in a May 1868 article in “The Engineer.”*52a

Reilly did not submit the rifle for the competition in summer 1867 as required (obviously). Rather, the entire competition was reopened in February 1868 after another wave of breech loaders was submitted and while the committee was working on accuracy issues for the barrels. The Reilly-Comblain, however, was part of the large group rejected in July 1868 when the committee settled on the Henry barrel, rifling and cartridge and selected a final 9 actions to be tested. In February 1869 the committee chose to unite the Martini action with the Henry barrel and rifling system and the "Martini-Henry" was born.*52b

Reilly mounted an extensive newspaper advertisement campaign for the Reilly-Comblain rifle in UK. The first advertisement appeared in Feb 1868 (when the competition for the action was reopened to late-comers) and ads continued almost daily until July 1868.*52c After that the ads were confined to long-range publicity contracts with guide books up until about 1870 when they disappeared entirely.*52d His advertisements spanned a relatively short time period and after the Reilly-Comblain was eliminated from the competition emphasized both "military and sporting uses" for the rifle.

Note: The Comblain in a new less awkward form was featured in newspaper articles and shooting contests throughout the early 1870’s especially in reports on UK Volunteer Services militia; UK and Russia were the two guarantors of Belgian independence. Reilly appears to have abandoned his association with Comblain by that time.)*52e. The Comblain was later adopted by the Belgian and Brazilian armies (though not in the Reilly-Comblain configuration); It was used by Brazil for 30 years. Reilly had nothing to do with these contracts.

Per patent use numbers Reilly apparently built some 6000 Comblain's in UK over 3-4 years 1867-71. 6000 rifles are not an inconsiderable number, more it would seem than the UK civilian market could consume over the 3 years that Reilly was “sole manufacturer.” Who bought these guns and where they went is something of a mystery. Perhaps various militia units adopted them; the units could choose their own weapons. Alternatively Reilly might have changed the patent use numbering system after the first series were built, starting anew at SN 5000… meaning a bit more that 1,100 were actually made, a more manageable sporting use number over 3 years of sales.

There are a number of Reilly-Comblain's extant. There is not enough information presented in the advertisements for these guns to be able to discern definitive patterns. However, following are some observations:
. . . . .-- The first existing Reilly-Comblain is use number #14. It has Belgian proofs. (See below for details)
. . . . .-- The last extant Reilly-Comblain is use number #6108 with E.M. Reilly & Co., Sole Manufactures, New Oxford St, London on the action. It has Birmingham proofs. (See below for details).
. . . . .-- None of the Comblain rifles have a Reilly serial number indicating all were manufactured elsewhere.
. . . . .-- Most early Reilly-Comblain have only the London address (not Paris)-it was a British army trials after all and having a French address would not have been a plus; however one trial gun has “Paris” stamped on the butt plate.
. . . . .-- Most of the extant guns have Birmingham proofs.
. . . . .-- The early guns have an ornate brass plaque on the lower receiver of the rifle with the patent Use #.
. . . . .-- Later guns have “E.M.Reilly & Co., Sole Manufacturers, New Oxford St., London” just ahead of the breech. The Patent use number is stamped on the breechblock just ahead of the bolt.
. . . . .-- Later guns have a “Patented by” or a “Warranted by” “E.M. Reilly & Co., London, Paris” stamped on the stock or on the breech.

A Few Extant Reilly-Comblain Rifles:

. . . . .Patent use #14. This is the earliest Reilly-Comblain known. It was mentioned in a gun chat site thus information is quite limited. It is stamped on the barrel ahead of the breach “E.M.Reilly & Co., Sole Manufacturers, New Oxford St., London”; on the lock plate “E.M.Reilly & Co. London.” The caliber is .577 .The barrel is 30.5 inches long. The Obelisk can be clearly seen on the breech block; It is the Belgian Inspectors mark for final proof. It is bereft of other numbers other than #14 on its stock.*52f

. . . . .Patent use #25. .577 Snider, 20 1/2" barrel. The top of the action is engraved "H. HOLLAND / 98 NEW BOND ST. / LONDON", the lock plate is engraved simply "H. HOLLAND" and the breechblock is marked "REILLY-COMBLAIN / PATENT NO. / 25". A brass plaque affixed to the bottom of the stock beneath action is beautifully engraved "Reilly / Comblain / Patent / No. 25”.*52g

. . . . .Patent use #32. .577 Reilly-Comblain rifle, serial no. 32. Blued 30in barrel, block and blade fore-sight, ladder rear-sight, the breech block signed 'E.M. REILLY & Co. RIFLE MANUFACTURERS, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON', block signed 'REILLY-COMBLAIN PATENT No. 32', plain color-hardened lock signed 'E.M. REILLY & Co. LONDON.”*52h

. . . . .Patent use ???. This rifle is stamped on the barrel ahead of the breach E.M.Reilly & Co Sole Manufacturers New Oxford St., London on the lock plate E.M.Reilly & Co. London. Caliber is .577.*52i

. . . . .Patent use #5048: Reilly Comblain rifle; 30” barrel with Birmingham proofs. "25" (i.e. .577), saber bayonet lug and typical period Enfield sights; 5-groove rifling like the 1860 or '61 Short Rifles. Chambered for the .577 Snider round. Receiver ring stamped "E.M.REILLY & Co / SOLE MANUFACTURERS / NEW OXFORD STREET / LONDON" . Breechblock stamped "REILLY-COMBLAIN / PATENT No 5048". Butt is marked with a large 3" ink stamp "PATENTED BY E.M. REILLY & Co., LONDON & PARIS".*52j

. . . . .Patent use #5051: E.M. REILLY & CO. LONDON. Reilly-Comblain Patent No. 5051. On Barrel, E.M. REILLY & CO, SOLE MANUFACTURERS, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON. Warranted by E.M. REILLY & Co. London & Paris.*52k

. . . . .Patent use #5298. Fusil d'infanterie, percussion centrale, modele E. M. Reilly ; calibre 14.8 mm ; canon poli blanc, poinconne et signe : "E. M. Reilly & Co., Sole Manufacturers, New Oxford Street London" ; culasse marque : "Reilly Comblain patent nr 5298"; platine avant polie blanc (carbon steel), marque : "E M Reilly & Co., London.”*52l

. . . . .Patent use #5439. E.M REILLY & CO, LONDON;.577 BREECH-LOADING CARBINE, MODEL 'REILLY-COMBLAIN PATENT', serial no. 5439, probably converted from a Pattern 1861 Cavalry Carbine. 18 1/2in. blued barrel, block and blade fore-sight, small elevating ladder rear-sight, the top of breech block stamped “E.M. REILLY & CO, SOLE MANUFACTURERS, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON”; the top of the breechblock marked “REILLY-COMBLAIN PATENT NO. 5439”, plain flat bar-action lock marked “E.M. REILLY & CO, LONDON,” walnut full-stock, the right hand side of butt stamped in large oval form 'WARRANTED BY E.M. REILLY & CO. LONDON & PARIS', iron furniture including two barrel-bands and jag-ended clearing rod, much finish remaining.*52m

. . . . .Patent use #6109. British Reilly-Comblain breechloading trails rifle. Overall length is approximately 49”. The 29¾” round .577 caliber centerfire barrel. Barrel is marked with the usual London proofs and caliber (25) mark. The breech is marked “E.M. Reilly & Co/ Sole manufactures/ New Oxford St/ London”. Stock is marked in ¼” letters on the right butt in an oval “warranted by/ E.M. Reilly & Co/ London & Paris.” There are also two small inspection stamps to the rear of the trigger guard tang. *52n


*531871-1890: Reilly builds Martini-Henry Rifles (NSN):

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The history of Reilly building Martini-Henry rifles/actions is instructive. This is the legendary gun of the Zulu Wars, Rorke’s Drift, **53a the 2nd campaign in Afghanistan**53b and British imperial wars all over the planet which continued in use to WWI. **53c, *53d

As mentioned in the two previous chapters on the Snider and Comblain, in summer 1864 the UK recognized the need for a breech-loading military rifle. As a stop-gap measure the Snider-Enfield was formally adopted in September 1866. It turned out to be a very good weapon. Almost immediately in October 1866 Arsenal advertised a prize for a purpose built breech-loader. In March 1867, the Committee reported that no less than 104 rifles had been submitted and 9 finalists were recommended.

Trials for the 9 did not begin until late November 1867 and by February 1868, the competition was temporarily abandoned due to repeated failure of the trials rifles and severe accuracy problems. The Committee set about addressing the problem of barrels, rifling and cartridges first; the Committee had become convinced that a hybrid rifle was necessary combining a barrel from one bidder and an action from another. At the same time another 45 new rifles had been submitted to the War Office and the Committee decided to start all over again. (See Reilly-Comblain chapter referencing the start of advertising for the Reilly gun).

By July 1868 the Henry barrel and rifling was adopted and the chosen actions were again whittled down to nine. By 11 February 1869 the Henry barrel mated to the Martini action (a Swiss modified copy of the American Peabody) was announced. Trials began on the gun which lasted until 1871 uncovering various problems which included critical parts failures and uncomfortable recoil from the .451 Henry cartridge. On 13 April 1871 orders were placed at the royal Small Arms factory at Enfield for production. Between 1871 and 1874 the rifle was trialed by various units working kinks out of the design and finally on September 18, 1874 (fully 8 years after the need for the gun was advertised (and one thinks modern military acquisition times are long!). the M-H was authorized for full issue to the British army.

As a coda to this in November 1874, the Henry shallow groove rifling patent from November 1860 was allowed to be extended for another 4 years to November 1878. **53e It subsequently somehow (by a process not yet understood) may have been extended again to November 1888. There was some speculation that the extension was tied to the rifling being adopted by the army. In fact Henry received £5000 (equivalent today to $900,000) in 1872 from the British government for the patent use in the Martini-Henry and no more though he petitioned for a supplement. There are Reilly SxS rifles with Henry Patent marks (without use #'s published) which were serial numbered in the 1880’s. **53f Henry patents in the USA expired 15 November 1874 by court ruling.

Many companies made sporting versions of the M-H including in particular Greener. However, there apparently few if any M-H sporterized rifles with a company serial number made by any gun-maker in UK while the patents were in force. It appears that Arsenal would send over an action from Enfield or one of the authorized producers of the M-H, if a company wanted to build a sporterized M-H. Perhaps Braendlin had the license since its logo appears often on Reilly's.

**Edit: Here is a mystery: Who held the Martini-Henry patents? According to some sources the National Arms and Ammunition Co was formed by Wesley-Richards in 1872 to make Martini-Henrys and Henry granted a license to them. The company manifestly failed to produce what was needed. But in 1875 allegedly it claimed to own the rights to the patents and expected to receive royalties from other companies who had been making the Martini-Henry Rifle. It initially won a court case but the judgement was overturned the following year; it was finally settled in National's favor by the House of Lords. So were companies like Reilly paying National Arms and Ammunition Co. for the right to make a Martini-Henry? There are no patent use numbers on the M-H's. Were payments made just for the barrels and rifling (the patent was no longer valid after 1878)? Who owned the Martini patent for the action for civilian makers, which also must have expired around 1880? This information is surely available but a bit off topic re Reilly Martini-Henry's- unless a list of payments for the patent use can be turned up.

Reilly’s first advertisement for a “Henry-Martini” appeared in Jun 1871. **53f His first advertisement for “Martini-Henry” rifles appeared in December 1871. **53g

There are many extant Reilly-made sporterized Martini-Henry’s with all four London address on their barrels (502/16 New Oxford Street and 315/277 Oxford Street). Reilly M-H’s are found in half a dozen calibers, one being an 8-bore (cal .775) big game gun. Several are pictured. (**53h, *53i, *53j, *53k ) He engraved and retailed M-H’s; he may have assembled rifles himself at both manufactury’s using actions and barrels sent from elsewhere and with machine-made "engraving" typical of the M-H. Like the other gun makers, however, none of these have Reilly serial numbers until after the expiration of the Martini-Henry Patent (again who held this patent is a question).

There is one extant Reilly M-H with a serial number *33899(1894) **53i which has neither the Martini Patent plaque with crossed flags or Braendlin "B" logo.

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**541872-1912 Reilly sells other Military Rifles; Swinburn, Gibbs, Soper, Lee-Speed

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The Snider-Enfield was apparently the last military rifle Reilly made in his London workshops and serial numbered. He did not serial number the Reilly-Comblain nor the Martini-Henry sporting guns he sold. However, he continued to advertise and market military rifles, selling some to the Volunteer Militia and some to private owners for sport. These were made elsewhere. Here are four:

. . . . . Swinburn-Henry: **5a The Swinburn was similar to the Martini-Henry but differed internally quite a bit. For instance it had a thumb manipulated side lever which could cock the hammer without operating the lever. It fired the same .577/540 Martini-Henry cartridge but was more prone to breakage. It was patented in 1872 and all production was done by by Abingdon Works Co. Ltd., Birmingham. Reilly’s first advertisement for a Swinburn rifle (which he misspelled) is from October 1875. *54a1
. . . . . . . . . .-- There is one extant Reilly Swinburn from about 1885 in the Royal Armouries. It is highly engraved with a lion surrounded by fine scrollwork on the right side of the receiver and two stags on the left. It is engraved “E.M. REILLY & Co., 277 OXFORD STREET, LONDON, AMMUNITION GOV 577.450.” *54a2

. . . . . George Gibbs “Farquharson Patent”: *54b This is a single-shot hammerless falling-block action rifle. It was patented by John Farquharson in Scotland in 1872. George Gibbs, a Bristol gun-maker, bought into the patent in 1875 and was the sole maker until the patent expired in 1886. Per Wikipedia, fewer that 1,000 Gibbs-Farquharson rifles were made, the last in 1910. Famous hunter Frederick Selous was known to use the rifle. *54b1
. . . . . . . . . .-- There is one extant Gibbs-Farquharson .451 cal rifle with Reilly's name on it, signed “E.M. REILLY & CO., 277 OXFORD STREET, LONDON,” with a Gibbs serial number 1331 (Wikipedia can be wrong too). *54b2

. . . . . The Soper Rifle: *54d The Soper Birmingham-made breech-loader missed out on the breech-loading trials in 1867-68. However, in a separate test in 1872 it fired 60 rounds in one minute, a rate not matched by magazine guns. Soper put up a ÂŁ100 bet ($10,000+) in 1878 that he would match two men firing his gun against three firing any other rifle in the world to see who could get most rounds on a 200 yard target in 3 minutes. No one took him up on it. Per an early 1880 advertisement Reilly was the Soper rifle "agent for London." *54d1 . Examples of the Soper rifle in 1870 and 1880 are pictured. *54d2,d3

. . . . . Lee-Speed: *54c The Lee-Speed was a bolt-action magazine rifle, which was basically a sporting variant of the Lee-Enfield made for civilians. It shot the .303 cartridge. The first advertisement for a Reilly marketed Lee-Speed is in 1893. *54c1 A number of London gun-makers offered Lee-Speeds for sale to sportsmen including Holland & Holland. *54c2
. . . . . . . . . .-- There is one extant Reilly marketed Lee-Speed shooting the .375 x 2.5” nitro express cartridge, introduced in 1899 (basically a hunting cartridge, a slightly longer version of the .303 necked out to .375). This Reilly has on the barrel “E.M. REILLY & CO., 295 OXFORD STREET, LONDON” indicating it was marketed between May 1904 and June 1912. *54c3


*55 1869: Explosive Bullets:

Reilly patented an explosive bullet in 1869, a sort of early M-79 idea. *55a

Note: As already mentioned Sir Samuel Baker wrote in his books that Reilly made custom explosive shells designed by him for his use as early as 1853. In addition Reilly made explosive shells for BG Jacob for his self-designed long-range double rifle used by his Pashtun cavalry in Sind and Baluchistan (1854-57). It may well be that Reilly used this knowledge to create his own explosive bullet. However, Reilly never obtained a major military contract with the War Department (as far as the present day evidence goes).


*561856-1871: An End to Reilly's Arsenal Contract Dreams

As a summary to these chapters on Reilly's military rifles, Reilly never achieved his ambitious plans to make a fortune with a contract with Arsenal. He always seemed to be one step behind; His Green Brothers breech-loader was very good, but could not shoot a cartridge with an internal primer. His Comblain was awkward looking, was late and was not the handsome Comblain of the Belgian militia of 1870, which might have stood a better chance, etc.

He did sell and engrave British military rifles - Enfields, Snider's, Martini's, Swinburns and later Lee-Speeds; He hawked these guns to the Yoemanry Volunteer Militia and to rifle clubs at wholesale prices, versions of them to Military personnel going abroad and to big-game hunters for 50 years. But, unless he built them himself he did not serial number these guns. He sold a lot of militia guns he did not make; but afterwards his business seemed to zero in on the civilian sporting market.

Nevertheless, the desire and the conceit never fully died. From Wyman's Industrial Encyclopedia 1888 on his 1885 exhibition at the London industrial innovations exposition, he still expressed a shadow of hope for some sort of contract or at least a recognition that he was still relevant:
. . . . ."They also showed some fine specimens of repeating rifles, which are now very prominently before our Government for adoption in the Army." *56a


. . . . .X. REILLY - 1868 – 1880; PARIS AND EXPANSION


*601867-1870, Paris-1: Reilly Takes on Paris, Again; Gun-Maker for Napoleon III

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EM Reilly always seemed to be enamored with Paris and as the 1867 Paris Universelle exposition*60a approached, he meticulously prepared an exhibit*60b that was extensively lauded. *60c It won him gold and silver medals. *60d

Note: Apparently the entire exhibit of Reilly guns at the Paris Universelle was bought by Grand Duke Constantine (son of Czar Nikolas I) and Count Nikolay Alexandrovich Orloff, who was then the Russian ambassador to Belgium, at the time the cockpit flash-point of Europe. (Russia and UK guaranteed Belgian independence). *60e

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As a result of the medals E.M. Reilly became a "gun maker" for Napoleon III.*60f, *60g

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*61 February 1868-1870, Paris-2: Reilly opens 2 rue Scribe, Paris as “E.M. Reilly & Cie”

Reilly’s triumph in Paris led him in February 1868 to open a branch office (EM Reilly & Cie.) at 2 rue Scribe, Paris where orders for his guns could be taken.*61a The store was located in the Grand Hotel near the Gare du Nord, a prime location (British travelers to Paris arrived at the Gare du Nord).*61b, *61c, *61d This branch office remained open for the next 17 years.

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. . . . .-- SN 14983 - The first extant gun with 2 rue Scribe on the rib is 14983, an 8 bore SxS under-lever, hammer gun shotgun (with a firing system very much resembling the earlier Lancaster "base-fire" action - other observers note that it was very like the Pape patent with retractable firing pins).*61e

The extant gun’s hammers resemble the hammers pictured in Reilly ads at the time.*61f

. . . . .-- SN 15287 - A second center fire 12 gauge shotgun hammer gun from this period with similar hammers.*61g

Note: The French press in articles about Reilly in the 20th century has claimed that the artistic elegance and balance of a Reilly gun came from its association with Paris.*61h


*62 1868-1897 – Paris-3: New Label

His case labels changed at this time to feature the two medals won at the 1867 World's Fair and often (but not always) mentioned both branch addresses.*62a, *62b

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His presentation cases appeared to be red velvet with the 502 and 2 rue Scribe addresses on them, sometimes with no "promotion clause", sometimes with "Gun Manufacturers" below the name:

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*63 1870, Paris-4: Fall of Napoleon III; Reilly Prosecuted; Pro-French proclivities:

Two and a half years later the Franco-Prussian War broke out. After the battle of Sedan September 3, 1870 Napoleon III fell from power*63a - the Third French Republic was declared; the medals (with Napoleon III's profile on them disappeared from Reilly's case labels for awhile yet continued occasionally to resurface on both labels and in advertisements for the next 15 years.

Bismark and Napoleon III after the battle of Sedan, 03 September 1870:
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Note: Napoleon III died in exile in England in 1873. His widow Empress Eugenia*63b bought a Reilly 12 bore SxS shotgun, while in England SN 17532 (dated per the chart to mid 1872), and a second Reilly 16 bore (SN unknown) both of which are now in the USA somewhere. Her son was killed in the Zulu Wars in 1879. She died in 1920 having been awarded the Order of the British Empire.

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Reilly's affinity for France was well known and commented on in London newspapers at the time. (Was this possibly an Irish-French Catholic connection?)

-- A French woman was found in his house in the 1861 census;*63c

-- In Fall 1870 he was prosecuted for attempting to smuggle 2,000 shells to his rue Scribe address, a violation of UK neutrality in the conflict; The London press commented to the effect that this Reilly-Francophile affinity was inevitable (i.e. Reilly "couldn't help himself."). Reilly maintained that the French Republic had invaded his store and confiscated all the guns; he dared not resist their insistence on ammunition. (The cartridges in question were for Snider .577 sporting rifles in Reilly’s inventory in Paris. What happened to his shotguns is unknown).*63d, *63e, *63f

-- and in 1871 Reilly offered to sell 6,000 Chassepot rifles (stored in Birmingham) to the new French Republic. (Obviously the rifles were to be sent to France via some sort of back-channel; the French parliament - really a sort of 3rd Republic "Revolutionary Committee," hesitated over a few centimes of commission - the opportunity was lost).*63g

-- There are Reilly trade labels from the period where the owner of the gun has taken pains to erase the Paris address - Francophobia was alive and well in UK.*60h

-- And with this long-time connection, one must assume that early on, after the 1851 exposition, EM was in contact with French center-break breech-loader makers and must have been experimenting. He had contacts in Liège (as did Trantor or perhaps through Trantor) possibly as early as the 1850's.

-- Whether he spoke French is unknown. However, there are mid-1860’s Reilly advertisements which mention, “Ici on Parle Francais” (French spoken here).*63i


*64 1869-76: Reilly and the American Market

From as early as 1868 Reilly evinced an interest in penetrating the American market.*64a He acquired an American agent (Joseph Grubbs, Philadelphia),*64b and had his guns advertised in mail order catalogs.*64c At the 1876 Philadelphia centennial*64d he exhibited along side very high-standard British guns*64e, and won a medal which was later displayed on his post 1897 case labels.*64f


*65 1868-76: New Labels and Descriptions

. . . . .1869: New Description - Gun and Rifle Manufacturers: Around 1869 EM changed the description of the company in print journal ads to "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" (as did many other English gun makers).*65a This description was occasionally but not usually used on some trade/case labels for the next 15 years.*65b

. . . . .There are two extant guns with this phrase on the ribs or barrels:

. . . . . . . . . .-- SN 25572, a .450 BPE SxS U-L hammer gun rifle dated 1883 with “To their Majesties Kings of Spain and Portugal.”*65c

. . . . . . . . . .-- SN 26537, a .450 BPE SxS U-L hammer gun rifle (later rebored as a 20 gauge shotgun) dated 1884.*65d

. . . . .The phrase also appeared on some of his post February 1868 (opening of rue Scribe) long-gun presentation cases.*65e

. . . . .1868: New label for handguns: Shortly after the 1867 Paris exposition for a short time he used a different label for revolvers with only the 315 Oxford Street address, without the scollops or the medals, advertising “Breech Loading Gun and Rifle Manufacturers," which included the phrase, "By appointment to his majesty emperor Napoleon III.*65f. The label was only used for a few years.

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. . . . .1876: New outlier Label for 502 New Oxford St: In 1876 an outlier Reilly trade label for 502 New Oxford Street began advertising a connection to the King of Portugal*65g echoed by advertisements in the print press.*65h (Only two examples of this case label have so far been found).

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. . . . .1876: New Label for 315 Oxford Street: Also around 1876 315 Oxford Street got its own label back; it was slightly different from the classic 502 label, without scollops and with no scroll work at the bottom.*65i

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*66 1875-80: Choke Boring and New Proof Marks

In Jan 1875 WW Greener had perfected his choke boring method which became the standard of the industry. It was immediately controversial with some traditionalists maintaining it did nothing but make shooting more difficult. However, tests run by “the Field” in March 1875 showed its advantages. London and Birmingham proof marks were immediately changed with “Not For Ball” being added to choke bored shotguns. Of course, if a gun had no choke the stamp was not used and most UK shotguns sold up to 1880 were cylinder bore.

The interesting fact about Greener's choke boring system is that unlike some inventions, just about every gun-maker in London jumped on it. By late spring all sorts of high-quality makers were advertising the system. (This almost instanteous adoption of Greener's choke boring is an interesting phenomena from the formerly extremely change-resistant UK gun community. By 1875 excitement over new innovations was apparently driving the market; and much like Reilly did in the late 1850's others now jumped whole-heartedly onto the band-wagon of new ideas, to sell new guns and make the old ones feel out-dated; shades of modern marketing).

. . . . .Reilly's first advertisement for a choke-bored shotgun is from 08 May 1875, "The Field"*66a.

. . . . .SN 20681 (1877) - 12 bore SxS side-lever hammer-gun shotgun: 1st extant Reilly shotgun with a confirmed “Not For Ball" proof stamp.*66b


*67 1875-80: Reilly paying royalties for Patent uses:

This esoteric chapter is placed here for academic reasons because it potentially could be a very important tool in understanding Reilly (and other London gunmakers). From the early 60’s to the end of the company in 1912 Reilly used others’ patents on his guns and paid patent royalties to these companies (as did virtually every gun-maker in London). Reilly apparently thought it cheaper and faster to build his own versions of the patents than wait an intermiable period for an action or forend or an injector to be delivered.

However, the question remains (never to be adequately answered because of the chaotic nature of patent use numbers), “if a gun has a patent use number stamped on it, was it built by the payer of the royalties, or by the owner of the patent, who built it in the white and sent it to the royalty payer?” It would seem to be the former but it could be both. The problem of trying to investigate patent use numbers also lies with individual users and auction houses. With the exception of Toby Barclay no one seems to pay attention to these important markers.

This chapter will not go deep into this rabbit hole, but is meant to be an example of what one might find in investigating it further because Reilly is recorded historically as paying patent royalties to various companies.

The most common patents found on existing post 1860 Reilly guns (with patent use numbers- i.e. royalties paid to the patent owners) are as follows:

1860, May - J.D. Dougall “Lockfast” action patent. Per published information Reilly made a gun in 1861 with documented royalty payents paid to Dougall. *67a

1860, 15 Nov - Henry patent 2802 - 7 groove shallow rifling. The patent was extended in December 1874 for four years and then by a process not understood for another 10 years to 1888. Reilly built dozens of Henry barreled rifles and paid the royalties (as did virtually every gun-maker in London). Henry records exist but do not record royalty payments. The first extent Reilly Henry-barreled rifle is SN 17626 (1872) and last gun being SN 27405 (1885).

. . . . .SN 17626 (1872) - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .450 SxS Rifle. BPE. C-F, U-L, hammer gun. 28” Henry Pat #408, 409.*67b

. . . . .SN 27405 (1885) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). .577/500 SxS BPE Rifle. U-L, hammer gun. 8 lbs, 11 oz. Henry rifling A&T.*67c (Note there are no use #'s on this patent stamp. There was a time in UK gun history where certain patents had acquired a status in and of themselves for quality - Whitworth for steel barrels being one of them and as such some makers went out of their way to stamp those patents on their guns but without a patent use #. It was sort of like, "As advertised on television" from the 1960's.

1863, 01 May - J. Purdey patent no. 1104 - “double bite” under action bolt. Found on Reilly guns up to the expiration of the patent in 1877. The Purdey patent 1104 combined with the Scott spindle became one of the standards of the industry. It expired on 01 May 1877. The patent cost a user £2, a considerable sum.

Nine extant Reilly guns have 1104 patent use numbers. Presumably Reilly paid Purdey (and Scott) directly. Patent use numbers were usually not chonological and were sometimes sold in batches. Purdey was queried about records for patent use payments; unfortunately these are locked away and cannot be accessed; they would have a story to tell. The first extant Reilly with a 1104 patent use # is SN 17393 (1872) and the last SN 20623 (April 1877) (the last month before the expiration of Purdey Patent 1104).

. . . . .SN 17393 (1872) - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and 2 Rue Scribe, Paris; 12bore. Shotgun SxS. Push-forward U-L, hammer gun. Purdey Pat 1104, use #948 (dated 1872)*67d

. . . . .SN 20623 (Apr 1877) - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London and Rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. U-L, rebounding hammer gun. (Purdey patent 1104 use #4928 (April 1877)*67e

1875, 11 May - Anson & Deeley patent 1152 and/or 1756 - Boxlock hammerless action. See separate post below. 25% of extant Reilly's made after 1880 are boxlocks. The first extant A&D Reilly boxlock is SN 22482, use # 1156:

. . . . .SN 22482 (early 1880) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned), 12 bore SxS Shotgun. BLE. A&D use # 1156. *67f

1876. Scott patent 761 from 1878, the "Triplex Action" which included crystal indicators, etc. There are 5 extant Reilly’s with the Scott patent 761: Please note that Holland & Holland bought a bunch of the Scott patent 761 “Triplex Actions” early on during the first 6 years of the patent; in 1882 he advertised a "Triplex grip" pigeon gun*67g :

. . . . .SN 24675 (1882) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS. top lever, hammerless, back lock, non-ejector. Scott action patent 761(no use #).*67h

. . . . .SN 24736 (1883) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (stock, action,forend). 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Scott triplex action Pat 761 use #339, Perks, crystal indicators, Scott gas check Pat 617 use #1233.

. . . . .SN 25038 (1883) - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Sreet, London & Rue Scribe, Paris. 12 Bore Shotgun SxS. Top lever, hammerless. Scott/Baker pat 761, use #200; Needham/Hinton sears (Pat 705) 1879 patent.*67i

. . . . .SN 27853 (1886) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Paris Improved Patent. 16 bore, Shotgun SxS. Dolls Head; Side-clips; S-L, Scott triplex action Pat 761 use #2112, Perks, crystal indicators, Scott gas check Pat 617 use #1953, Whitworth Steel barrels, 1st of pair. "Not for Ball"*67j

. . . . .SN 27854 (1886) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Paris Improved Patent. 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. Dolls Head; Side-clips; S-L, Scott triplex action, Perks, crystal indicators, Whitworth steel barrels, 2nd of pair.*67k

1882, 8 Feb - Scott patent 617 - gas check. An amazingly simple patent which preserved shotgun actions from the corrosive effect of black powder, found with patent use #’s on 20 or so Reilly shotguns from 1882-to the dawn of smokelesspowder. (It was not used on rifles apparently).*67l

1886 - Perkes patent 10679 – ejector. Reilly used several Perkes patent forends and ejectors on his rifles.

1865 - Whitworth patent for fluid compressed steel barrels. Patent extended for 5 years in 1879. Reilly began using Whitworth steel barrels on his pigeon guns in 1882 (SN 24365). (see separate chapter on steel barrels below.

. . . . .SN 24365 (1882) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Shotgun SxS, 12 bore, top lever, 31" whitworth steel barrels, pigeon gun).*67m


*68 1878-80: Paris exposition; Situation of the company

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Reilly again exhibited at the 1878 Paris exposition*68a and again won medals.*68b

In 1880 Reilly sold about 650 serial-numbered guns a year, a number which had remained pretty constant since the opening of the Paris store in 1868. This was still a third more hand-made bespoke guns than both Holland & Holland and Purdey combined.

This was in addition to other revenue streams for the company including:
. . .-- a very active business in guns sold under license from well known gun makers including revolvers - Trantor, Baumont-Adams, Walker, Colt, etc), rook rifles, repeating rifles - Sharps (sole importer)*68c, Winchester*68d, etc.,
. . .-- as well as merchandising every type of gun accoutrement - reloaders, cartridges, shells, cases, etc.
. . .-- and sustaining a huge business in previously owned guns.

Reilly got regular publicity from users of his guns, who posted comments in "The Field"*68e and from an editor of "The Field" who consistently lauded his Reilly-made 20 bore shotgun in numerous articles.*68f

The company had a firm niche in the London gun-making business and several commentators have speculated that he was building guns in the white for other makers. But EM, with the death of his dreams of obtaining a contract for a military rifle, still had big plans.


. . . . . XI: REILLY – 1880’s; 1,000 GUNS A YEAR:


*69 Reilly in the early 1880's; 1881 Census; 1000 guns a year

Reilly's business was booming and in 1881 expanded dramatically. Serial numbered gun production rose from about 650 a year in 1880, a number which had remained pretty constant for 12 years, to over 1000 a year in 1882.

Reilly told the 1881 census taker that he employed some 300 people in his firm in his two workshops on Oxford street and store in Paris and agents in Birmingham, an extraordinarialy high number for the times, an indication of the extent of his gun manufacturing and sales business.*69a (WW Greener in the same census claimed to employ 140, less than half the number of Reilly; Purdey in 1871 said he employed 58, 1/5th the number of Reilly workers).*69b

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The number “300” has become controversial and a number of writers have tried to downplay it or explain it away. After all the average number of employees at a London gunmaker in 1851 was "14." But the words are from E.M. Reilly to the census taker as are those of Greener, etc. Reilly had no reason to embellish. The gun trade was highly cyclical as illustrated by this post on the Birmingham gun industry. Not one Birmingham gun making concern could say exactly how many workers were employeed on a given day.*69c

Since Reilly, at the time of the 1881 census was quite dramatically expanding his sales of serial numbered guns. it is entirely possible that at the time of the census Reilly was adding to his workforce and this could have included independent gun part makers under contract to him. However, the fact remains that this is what the census taker noted; if the figure is challenged then the figures for Greener, Purdey et.al are also wrong.

Note: See below chapters on the A&D Boxlock and his decision to begin “selling off the rack.” It is probable that with his 1880 pivot to the boxlock that he began to sell guns made in the white in Birmingham like everyone else, which might well account for the increased production.

He also around this time allegedly (not confirmed) began importing cheap Belgian-made revolvers in parts which he assembled in his buildings, engraved and sold. (Reilly, like Trantor and others, possibly was involved with the Belgian manufacture and "assembly trade" much earlier...perhaps dating to as early as the 1850's).


*70 1880: Reilly and the Anson & Deeley Boxlock

In early 1880 Reilly adopted the boxlock (Anson & Deeley 1875 Patent) and began building or having them built in significant numbers. Some 25% of the surviving Reilly guns from 1880-1912 are Boxlocks.

The Anson & Deeley boxlock articles and ads began to appear in the UK press in March, 1877 following a full page ad in “The Field” by Westley-Richards.*70a W-R quoted an article in the US Press for the 1876 centennial about the gun cribbed from a Birmingham press article of 1876.*70b By summer 1877 the Anson & Deeley was being touted by all sorts of London gunmakers. Even a few prominent ones such as Greener began to market the gun.*70c However, Reilly (like a few other London gun-makers) never specifically advertised the A&D. Reilly endorsed the boxlock whole-heartedly an 1882 cameo on his company but he was clearly several years behind some.*70d

By 1880 Reilly was beginning to dramatically expand serial numbered production from 650 to over 1000 a year and had decided to "sell off the rack." (see below) The A&D boxlock would certainly have simplified the manufacturing process. Reilly could have tried to produce these himself at least early on..he had the ego and the manufacturing space.

But almost certainly Reilly began to avail himself of Birmingham produced actions in significant numbers for the first time. Buying boxlock actions from Birmingham and finishing them in London, as just about the entire trade did at the time, would have been a logical business step. Birmingham was fully geared up to produce boxlocks by 1880. The impression is strengthened since Reilly did not include the A&D in his late 1870-early 1880 ads. Importing guns in the white from Birmingham would also explain how Reilly could jump serial numbered gun production up 400 a year without adding more manufacturing space.

Birmingham box-lock actions usually have workers' initials on them someplace. None have yet to be found on a Reilly box-lock but this type of information is not usually published by auction houses.

. . . . . . . . . .-- SN 22482 (1880): The first surviving Reilly box-lock is SN 22482 (1880), a 12 gauge top lever shot gun, A&D Patent use #1156.*70e


*71 1882: Selling Off The Rack

In late 1881 per advertisements it appears that Reilly made a business decision to stock ready-made guns and sell them off-the-rack as well as selling his usual bespoke made-to-order guns.*71a This might account for the soaring number of guns serial numbered per year, which grew from about 650 numbered in 1880 to some 1050 in 1882. It might also account for certain discrepancies in serial numbered guns from this time forward such as 303xx which would have been numbered in late 1888-early 1889 but still has "Not For Ball" on its barrels (a stamping discontinued in 1887).*71b

If this were the case, Reilly possibly serial numbered his bespoke guns when ordered (usual London practice) and his off-the-rack guns when sold. (When knowledgable gun historians and makers were queried about this phenomena - guns with pre-1887 proof marks apparently made after that date - they shrugged and said essentially that no-one can logically explain the process at the time - some gun makers ignored or stretched the law; some used barrels already proofed..etc.)

As pointed out above, the decision to vastly expand production and sell ready-made guns may mark the origin of a trend towards marketing Birmingham-made guns finished in London to satisfy demand, supplementing Reilly’s own production which seemed to max out at about 650 a year per the attached chart.


*72 Nov 1881: Oxford Street Re-numbered; Change in Labels

In November 1881 Oxford Street was renumbered; "502" became "16 New Oxford Street" and "315" becoming "277 Oxford Street." The first advertisements for the new numbers appeared in early November 1881.*72a.

(Prior to the renumbering virtually the entire block were 315 and Purdey's 314 1/2 were located was numbered either "314" or "315." Attached is the 1882 London postal directory which has both sets of numbers for that block for the record.*72b.

The first Reilly with either of the new addresses is SN 23536 below:

. . . . .SN 23536 (Nov 1881) - The first extant gun with either of the new addresses on the ribs is SN 23536, a 12 ga. SxS BLE shotgun with E.M. Reilly & Co, 277 Oxford St., London on the rib. *72c

In spite of the formal change in numbering, the old numbers occasionally appeared in Reilly ads and on gun ribs for the next couple of years.*72d

Labels changed to reflect the two new addresses:

. . . . .-- A label for "16, New Oxford Street" with "rue Scribe" exists obviously post November 1881 and pre July 1885.*72e

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. . . . .-- However, the Reilly trade label used at "315 Oxford Street" does not appear to have changed definitively to the new numbering system until after rue Scribe closed in 1885; no "277 Oxford Street, London" labels with the Paris branch have so far been found. (There are a very limited number of the 277 labels for this time period uncovered so far; one may still turn up).*72f

. . . . . . . . . ._____________________
. . . . . . . . . |. . .Searching for . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . |. . . .Reilly Label. . . . .|
. . . . . . . . . |. 277 with rue scribe . .|
. . . . . . . . . |____________________|

. . . . .-- A presentation case label from this time period has yet to come to light. However there is a presentation case for SN 26181 (a very special gun) SN'd in 1883 but with a case from 1880 for the King of Spain with the 502 address and "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" on it. The key is the use of blue velvet which appears to have become the Reilly hallmark for the next 30 years for presentation cases:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


*73 1881: Spanish and Dutch Royal connection

In 1881 in addition to the connection to the King of Portugal Reilly began advertising a connection to the Spanish and Netherlands thrones, advertising which continued for the next 8 years.*73a The crests of the two monarchs appeared also on an outlier label from 1884-85.*73b

Spanish King Alphonso XII was a modernizer and much liked by the Spanish people. He unfortunately died in November 1885, cutting short what could have been a revitalization of the country.*73c He introduced the English sport of pigeon shooting to Spain. There are two existing Reilly gun’s dedicated to the King of Spain:

. . . . .SN 25161 (1883) - E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. .500 BPE/12 ga. Rifle/Shotgun; side lever, hammer gun. (King of Spain prize - 1880 case; Purdey double-bite patent 1104.*73d The story of 25161 is odd but it likely led to the Reilly claim to build guns for Alphonso XII. 25161 was to be given as a prize in 1880 by the King according to the case. However, the gun has an 1883 serial number and a pre Nov 1881 address on the rib. It is a beautiful gun and case presentation

. . . . .SN 25572 (1883) - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London and Paris, Gun & Rifle Manufacturers. .450 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L, hammer gun. "To Their Majesties Kings of Spain and Portugal” on the rib. The gun was purchased in Spain but there is no history attached.*73e

No extant examples of Reilly guns made for the King of the Netherlands, William III, a giant abusive man who may have been insane, but who, with his second marriage in 1878 settled down quite a bit,*73f or the King of Portugal, Louis I from the Braganza Dynasty,*73g have been discovered. (Reilly’s claim to make guns for the King of Portugal has already been discussed and dates to 1876.)

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*74 1878-81: Two outlier Trade Labels

There are two attractive floral outlier trade labels from this period:

. . . . .Label 1:*74a This is a label from Reilly .450 BPE SxS rifle SN 21369 (Serial numbered in 1878 per the chart).*74b The label is from 315 Oxford Street (pre-Nov 1881). It has floral capitals which more resemble those from UK gun labels in the 1890's.*74c

. . . . .Label 2:*74c This label is very similar to the above. It came in a case for SN 10354, a Reilly SxS muzzle loader shotgun from 1857, transformed per records into a center-break, U-L breech-loader allegedly in 1895-1904 (per the consigner).*74d However the label has the "502 New Oxford Street" address...pre-Nov 1881. It could be that the case is not original to the rebuilt gun or that the consigner's information about the date of the modification of the gun was wrong. It probably is the latter since it's difficult to imagine an owner completely transforming a muzzle loader to an U-L shotgun as late as the turn of the century.

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*75 1869-1890: Reilly and Pigeon Guns

From the late 1860’s to 1890's Reilly was heavily involved in building pigeon guns. His first specific advertisement for a purpose built pigeon gun was in 1869.*75a His guns regularly won or placed at all levels of competition, his first recorded win being in 1872.*75b He regularly donated guns to be awarded as prizes in pigeon shoots, both at the most prestigious UK shooting clubs and at international events.*75c

In 1882 Reilly won the year-long Hurlingham “gun-makers’ cup” championship per the 1883 Holt’s Shooting Calendar*75d and followed that up with repeat wins in 1883 and 1884. Reilly’s pigeon guns from these early 1880 years were specifically built to match the Hurlingham weight limits and thus can be used, along with other data, as something of a sanity check on date markers for dating Reilly guns. Following are examples:

. . . . .For the 1882 season Hurlingham rules weight limit for pigeon guns was fixed at 8 lbs., The below Reilly pigeon gun was built in late 1881 for the upcoming 1882 season. It weighs 8 lbs. exactly and was serial numbered in December 1881; it was owned by noted SxS aficionado and helice marksman Cyril Adams:

. . . . . . . . . .SN 23574 (Dec 1881) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore; Shotgun SxS; S-L, Pigeon gun, third bite, hammer gun. Side clips; Flat file cut rib; low profile hammers; 31" Whitworth Steel barrels; 8 lbs. (Cyril Adams) *75e

. . . . .For the 1883 season Hurlingham weight limit was reduced to 7 lbs. 8 oz. The below three Reilly Pigeon guns serial numbered in autumn 1882 were built to this standard, 24534 being a Cyril Adams gun:

. . . . . . . . . .SN 24365 (Sep 1882) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Shotgun SxS, 12 bore, top lever; Side clips; Flat file cut rib; low profile hammers; 31" Whitworth steel barrels, pigeon gun. 7 lbs. 8 oz.*75f

. . . . . . . . . .SN 24534 (Nov 1882) - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315, Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun pigeon gun; top lever, hammer gun; Side clips; Flat file cut rib; low profile hammers; 31” Whitworth steel brls. 7 lbs. 8 oz (Cyril Adams)*75g

. . . . . . . . . .SN 24650 (Dec 1882) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore, S-L, hammer gun. Side clips; Flat file cut rib; low profile hammers; Pigeon gun, 30” Whitworth steel brls. 7 lbs. 7oz*75h

. . . . .There is a Reilly pigeon gun built to "The Gun Club" standard weight in 1881 which was several ounces heavier than Hurlingham, which was previously owned by Cyril Adams:

. . . . . . . . . .SN 23355 (mid-1881) - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris. 12 bore. Top lever, pigeon, hammer gun. 32” brls. 8 lbs. 14.5 oz.*75i

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The Monte Carlo pigeon shooting tournament in January of each years was regarded as a sort of unofficial world championship.*75j. A well known Italian marksman pigeon shooter Giuseppe Guidicini*75k using a Reilly pigeon gun placed 2nd in the 1884 Monte Carlo pigeon shoot and won it all for the 1885 season (shot in Monaco in January 1886). Reilly advertised his win in the London papers in January and early February 1886.*75l

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The following quote is from Wyman's 1888 Industrial Encyclopedia on Reilly Pigeon gun success:

At the end of the 1882 season “Holts” Calendar gave the aggregate of winnings, of which the following statement was made about Messrs. Reilly’s guns.
--“Season of 1882, won at the principle shooting clubs near London – 17 Prize Cups, value £519; a Gold Medal, value £50; a silver medal and £6,148 in specie (equivalent to $750,000 today); which was nearly twice as much in prizes and specie as by guns of any other maker.”
-- In the season of 1883 Messrs. Reilly were again very successful, and gentlemen shooting with their guns at Hurlingham and the Gun Club won 16 Cups, value ÂŁ505, and ÂŁ3,162 in specie results which again placed Reilly a very long way in front of other gunmakers.
-- In the season of 1884 they headed the list of winning guns, their patrons securing cups and ÂŁ3,982, nearly ÂŁ3,000 in money prizes.
-- In 1885 they were also successful, 13 cups and ÂŁ2,603 being the prizes won by their guns at the principal shooting clubs.
-- The Grand Prix du Casino, the principle "objet d’art" of the International Meeting at Monaco was won in 1886 by Signor Guidicini, the Italian sportsman who was second the previous season Besides the valuable trophy, estimated at 5,000 francs, the Signor won 18,250 francs, (about $200,000 today) killing 19 birds consecutively within the limited boundary, shooting with one of Messr. Reilly’s full-choke 12-bore pigeon guns, defeating seventy-four other competitors
*75m


*76 1882: Reilly and Steel Barrels

In January 1882 Reilly advertised for the first time guns equipped with Whitworth compressed fluid steel barrels.*76a The Whitworth compressed steel barrel originally was a 1865 patent and was marked with the Whitworth “Grain Sheaf” trademark.*76b The patent was extended in 1879 for 5 years. However, such was the regard for the Whitworth product that even after the patent expired in 1884, gun makers still put the “Grain Sheaf” trademark stamp on their barrels as a sign of quality; it is on a Reilly 16 bore steel barrel numbered in 1886 for example.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Note: This advertisement is important for two more reasons - It has the old and new addresses for both Reilly workshops and it mentions Reilly selling ready-made "off the rack" or by custom fitting. The address for both workshops 502 New Oxford and 315 Oxford changed in November 1881 to "16" and "277" (Chapter XI, 72). In 1881 Reilly first announced he was selling ready-made guns; his serial numbered guns total topped 1000 guns in 1882 (Chapter Xi, 69). It also illustrates Reilly's sole distributorship of Sharpes Rifles in UK.

The first known Reilly with “Compressed Steel barrels” (per the advertisement), which are presumably Whitworth since no one else had “compressed steel,” is the above December 1881 Cyril Adams pigeon gun:

. . . . .SN 23574 (Dec 1881): - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore; Shotgun SxS; S-L, Pigeon gun, third bite, hammer gun. Side clips; Flat file cut rib; low profile hammers; 31" "Compressed Steel" barrels; 8 lbs. (Cyril Adams)*75b

The first Reilly steel barreled gun, which actually pictures the “wheat sheaf” Whitworth trademark, is another pigeon gun from above 24365:

. . . . .SN 24365 (Sep 1882): - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Shotgun SxS, 12 bore, top lever; Side clips; Flat file cut rib; low profile hammers; 31" Whitworth steel barrels, pigeon gun. 7 lbs. 8 oz.*75c

There is an 1876 Reilly SxS rifle that appears to have steel barrels, but may be blued Damascus, the advertisement gun description being minimal; If these are in fact original steel barrels they pre-date Purdey's use of Whitworth steel by 4 years:

. . . . .SN 19953 (1876): - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 500 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L hammer gun, steel barrels. Round back-action lock. 28”*76c

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It's interesting that as late as 1888 WW Greener in his book Modern Shotguns stated that Whitworth Steel barrels were not as strong as high-quality Damascus. Reilly for his part continued to use Damascus for the majority of his barrels up to the early 1900's. By that time the Damascus blanks came from Liege.


*77 1853-82: Reilly endorsed by prominent explorers and hunters

Throughout the 1870’s and 80’s Reilly published endorsements of his guns by famous big game hunters and explorers in his large advertisements.**77a.

Top: 1878 ad from Paris Exposition catalogue.
Bottom: 1880 advertisement.
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These included:

-- Henry Morton Stanley, the Welsh-American and perhaps the most famous of all African explorers.*77b. He searched central Africa for Livingstone (“Dr. Livingstone I presume”), became the first European to descend the Congo from Lake Tanganyika and then returned to lay out the posts for the King of Belgium that assured control of the Congo, etc.

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. . . . .Quote from How I Found Livingston:

. . . . . . . . .“For the rifle , with due deference to old sportsmen, of course the best guns for African game are the Lancaster and Reilly rifles.”*77c

-- Dr. David Livingstone:*77d British missionary and noted African explorer who traveled widely in southern and central Africa, being the first to traverse the continent at that latitude. He searched for the source of the Nile discovering numerous lakes and rivers in what is now Tanzania, Malawi, Congo and Zimbabwe. He disappeared in the late 1860’s for 6 years 4 of which he was ill, prompting huge European interest in his fate. Stanley set out in an expedition sponsored by his newspaper the New York Herald and found him in 1871.

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. . . . .Quote from How I Found Livingstone:p.58.

. . . . . . . . . .“...during the time I traveled with Dr. Livingstone the Doctor lent me his heavy Reilly rifle with which I seldom failed to bring an animal or two home to the camp….. The feats related by Capt. Speck and Sir Samuel Baker are no longer a matter of wonderment to the young sportsman when he has a Lancaster or a Reilly in his hand.”*77e

-- Frederick Selous, noted Victorian era African hunter and author:*77f Salous was an amazing man. He set out for Africa at the age of 19 in 1871 and became one of the most famous African hunters and later conservationists. His charisma enveloped everyone who met him including Theodore Roosevelt and it is believed he is the model for the "Alan Quartermaine" movies. He was killed fighting the Germans in East Africa in 1916 at the age of 65. Although Selous used mostly muzzle-loaders up to about 1880 he did take a Reilly rifle with him on his first trip to Africa (perhaps influenced by Samuel Baker); it was an U-L breech-loading SxS chambered for the .577 “boxer” Snider cartridge:

. . . . . . . . . .“Frederick Selous, 21, traveled light with just a blanket, a bag of cornmeal, two crude muzzle-loaders and two leather sacks–one for powder, the other for shot. His fine Reilly double rifle was stolen almost as soon as he arrived in Africa.“ *77g

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-- Sir Samuel Baker:*77h the most famous Victorian hunter of all, of course, began using Reilly heavy rifles in the early 1850’s, had Reilly build explosive shells for him, and continued to use his Reilly connection to the end of his hunting life as previously mentioned.

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. . . . .The Rifle And Hound In Ceylon (1853, republished in 1872 with the below quote):

. . . . . . . . . .”For many years I have been supplied with first-rate No. 10 rifles by Messrs. Reilly & Co. of Oxford Street, London, which have never become in the slightest degree deranged during the rough work of wild hunting. Mr. Reilly was most successful in the manufacture of explosive shells from my design; these were cast-iron coated with lead, and their effect was terrific.”*77i

. . . . .“Exploration of the Nile and Abyssinia.” (1868)

. . . . . . . . . .Among the guns Baker listed for his expedition were “Two double rifles, no. 10, by Reilly”*77j


*78 1882-1885: International Expositions:

1882 Calcutta Fair: Reilly exhibited at the 1882-3 Calcutta fair (a British Empire only affair) and won a medal.*78a

1884-1885 London Exposition: Reilly won a Gold Medal at the 1884 "London Exhibition" and was highly praised for his exhibit at the 1885 London International Inventions Expositions where he won a silver medal.*78b

Note there were three different international expositions in London in 1884-85;
-- An exposition at Crystal Palace;
-- the International Health Exposition of 1884; and
-- the International Inventions Exposition of 1885.
Reilly apparently won a gold medal at the International Health Exposition, although he publicized the medals only as “London Exhibition 1884.” The medals from the International Health Exposition appeared on his labels in 1885.*78c

Reilly also won a silver medal at the International Inventions Exposition, mentioned in several advertisements. However, the medals were never put onto his labels;

Reilly's exhibit at this exposition is described in Wyman:

“Messrs. Reilly & Co.'s stand at the International Inventions Exhibition of 1885 was acknowledged to have been one of the best appointed exhibits. (…..3 paragraphs of detailed description of guns found including .450 and .500 heavy double rifles, breech loading hammer and hammerless guns with ejectors, A&D boxlocks, Cape Guns, boys and naturalist guns, etc.…..)..helping make up a well-appointed miniature gun-shop in the Exhibition Hall”*78d.

Note: One Reilly "naturalist" shotgun exists from this period (a small gun made to take wildlife samples without tearing them to shreds):

. . . . .SN 25851 (1884:) E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London and rue Scribe, Paris. Shotgun SxS. 410. Side lever, hammer gun. Naturalist's "sample" gun.*78e.
*79 1884-1885: Reilly outlier label

Outlier label with the three kings: Two examples of yet another Reilly "outlier" label from this period have been found. It is for 16, New Oxford Street and mentions both 277 Oxford Street and 2 rue Scribe Paris. It has the coats of arms of the Kings of Portugal, Spain and Netherlands. It also mentions “wholesale and retail,” and “Gun and Rifle Manufacturers.” How this Reilly label fits into the label chronology is unclear but the guns associated with the label were numbered in 1884 and 1885.*79a

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*80 July 1885: Closure of the Paris Branch

In July 1885 rue Scribe was closed. The reasons for this are not known - hand made guns were being sold at a very high rate; it may have had to do with the departure of a long-time partner (possibly a M. Poirat? M. Poirat was the agent for Reilly in 1871, mentioned in French parliamentary records when Reilly tried to sell the stock of Chassepot rifles in Birmingham to the French Republic).

The closure is confirmed by Reilly advertisements in the main-stream press. “Rue Scribe, Paris” is present in advertisements in “The Field” in late July 1885; It is noticeably absent in the same ad in early August 1885 and in all other newspaper advertisements from then on.*80a

. . . . .SN 27340 (July 1885): The last extant SN'd gun with rue Scribe on the rib is 27340, a 12 bore SxS top-lever, hammer-gun, shotgun. The address on the rib is “New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris.”*80b


*81 1885-1886: Satellite Paris address at 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honoré, Paris?

Sometime in early 1885 Reilly apparently opened a small satellite branch of 2 rue Scribe, Paris at 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honoré, Paris for a short time. Attached are some geographical notations on this alleged branch:
. . . . .Map of rue du Faubourg:*81a
. . . . .Contemporary photo of rue du Faubourg.*81b
. . . . .Photo of 29 rue du Faubourg:*81c

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Five different gun case labels have been found with this address. The rue du Faubourg labels are generally in the classic post 1861 Reilly format but are not usually scalloped (one out the six is scalloped). They feature the usual main 16, New Oxford Steet address with the 277 Oxford street branch; the rue du Faubourg address is located where 2 rue Scribe had been for 17 years. The labels illustrate the 1867 Paris medals in the upper left hand corner and the 1884 London International Exposition medals in the right. This seemingly dates these labels and correspondingly the existence of this shop to originating as early as late 1884 after the International Health exhibit up to as late as early 1885.*81d

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The scroll work on the rue du Faubourg label is different from that on the classic pre-1885 Reilly label and seems to precede the scroll later used on the stand-alone 16, New Oxford Street label with no Paris address issued after August 1885. Attached are comparisons of the two labels.*81e (See below for illustrations).

One of the labels appears on SN 26880, a gun dated to Feb 1885.*81f However, this label was also found in a case housing SN 22432, dated 1880 and bought by a man who died in 1882 (the label obviously was added later, possibly after a repair).*81g

There is an argument as to whether rue du Faubourg existed after Reilly closed 2 rue Scribe late July 1885. The argument is summarized below:

. . .-- Evidence against the existence of rue du Faubourg after 31 July 1885 closure of 2 rue Scribe:
. . . . .- No newspaper advertisements for this branch exist. It should have been publicized by Reilly had it been more than a transient sales shop.
. . . . .- No extant guns have thus far been found with this address on their ribs.
. . . . .- After July 1885 there is no mention of “Paris” in any of the Reilly advertisements in the mass popular daily papers.

. . .-- Evidence for the existence of rue du Faubourg after July 1885.

. . . . .- There are five extant labels carrying this address.

. . . . .- It was a prestigious location - Coco Chanel's apartments were above it in another century.*81h In addition to very fashionable Paris shops, Some Parisian gun makers had factories/workshops/show rooms on rue du Faubourg. The road was also the heart of the English speaking community living in Paris a la “Belle Époque” including the home of the British ambassador to France. A sales-shop in that area would seem to be a logical Reilly commercial decision. But it would have been advertised.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . .- There are three extant Reilly guns serial numbered after the closure of 2 rue Scribe - which have "Paris" on their barrels. Two of these are a SxS pair built on the Scott "triplex" system. Counter argument: The guns or barrels could have been labeled before the closure of 2 rue Scribe and used a year later.*81i

. . . . .-There are magazine advertisements stretching into 1887 for Reilly at "Paris." Counter argument: Some of these are long term advertisements that were not changed over a several years.*81j

. . . . .- A series of brief paid-for ads appeared in the January-February 1886 London press touting a win at the Monte Carlo pigeon shoot by Italian champion pigeon shooter Giuseppe Guidicini using a Reilly with the rue du Faubourg address per the pigeon gun chapter above. (see chapter *75 above) The paid for articles were likely placed by Reilly; at the time he had no compunction about advertising a rue du Faubourg address; whether this was for prestige (Paris) or because he was indeed still in Paris is yet to be determined.*81k

A review of Parisian government records will likely solve this mystery. There are yearly surveys of businesses per street in Paris during this period and postal records are also available both of which should illustrate the existence of a Reilly Armurier at rue du Faubourg from circa early 1885 to early-mid-1886. However, the records are not on line and so far the French archives located in Paris have not been helpful. The lack of advertising for the shop is perplexing and this matter will continue to be looked into.

(Edit: There is a growing suspicion that Reilly may have had no store at all at 29 rue du Faubourg and that this was only an "accommodation address," perhaps using the address of an English tailor located at the site.*81l. Reilly was not above such subterfuges. Paris postal directories should solve this mystery).


*82 July 1885: Change in Reilly labels

The labels for both London branches changed slightly with the closure of 2 rue Scribe on 31 July 1885. The new labels retained the essence of the original 1861 labels. These labels were used from the closure of rue Scribe, Paris in July-August 1885 to the closure of 16 New Oxford Street in May 1897.

. . . . .-- 16, New Oxford Street, continued with the scalloped corners, double outlining following the model of the 1861 and 1868 labels. It has the 1867 medals in the upper left corner but with the 1884 London International Exposition gold medal in the upper right.*82a
. . . . . . . . . .The new label also advertised different guns in the scroll work at the bottom of the label.*82b
. . .Top: 1861-1885;
. . .Middle: rue du Faubourg 85-86;
. . .Bottom: Main label after Aug 1885 closure of rue Scribe

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. . . . .-- 277, Oxford Street also continued its label tradition without the scallops or border lining.*82c
. . . . . . . . . .Likewise some of the descriptions in scroll work in the center of the new label were changed.*82d
. . .Top: Pre Aug 1885
. . .Bottom: Post closure of rue Scribe

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*83 Reilly in the Late 1880's:

Reilly exhibited at the 1889 Paris World's Fair, the "Tour Eiffel" Exposition Universelle,*83a and won a silver medal.*83b However, he chose not to publicize the medal. Wesley-Richards won the overall gold medal and every English gunmaker entered in the exposition was awarded a silver medal; perhaps Reilly felt this degraded the accomplishment.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

A nasty law-suit "Reilly vs Booth" on easement limitations to the Salvation Army Hall behind his establishment at 277 Oxford Street was litigated. The legal decision is cited to this day.*83c

The fact is, something changed with the firm after 1886. Reilly's guns regularly won competitions*83d and were donated to be given as prizes at high-end shooting competitions. *83e Advertisements continued to fill the papers publicizing his sale of all sorts of guns, “Elephant and Tiger Rifles,” Magnum Express Rifles,” “Express double and single Rifles,” “Self-extracting hammerless shotguns,” etc.*83f Many ads noted his offering of his “Special Pigeon Guns,” “of great power; Hurlingham weight, Whitworth barrels, below line-of-sight hammers.”*83g

But, the company just gradually seemed to go backward. His guns used many of the latest patents but numbered guns made per year gradually declined from its height of 1050 in 1885 to about 900 in 1889. The cocky swagger of the 1860's seemed to have burnt itself out.


. . . . . XII. DEATH OF EM REILLY; DECLINE AND FALL: 1890-1918:


*84 1890: Death of E.M. Reilly and aftermath:

In July 1890 EM Reilly contracted broncho-pneumonia and passed away.*84a, 84b, 84c

Of Reilly's “acknowledged” sons Charles A. was 20, Herbert H. was 15, and Gerald Atol was 13 - all still in school, none apparently with the hands-on gun-making expertise that EM had in his upbringing. His first "son" Edward Montague, who he referred to as “my reputed son,” was 23 and apparently working as a locomotive mechanic (see below).

In his will*84d E.M left a sum of about £8,000 (about $1.2 million today). This was in addition to the two buildings held freehold (probably by the company), the guns, the tools, etc. (The structure of the company and Reilly’s partners, if any, are still not known).

His wife Mary Ann was in her 40's. Business was still lively. Widows did successfully manage companies in England at the time after the deaths of their husbands. EM specifically did not leave his wife the "trade books."*84e However, newspaper articles on the later death of her son Edward Montague seem to indicate that Mary was indeed running the company during this time.*84f

With EM’s death the light of Reilly entrepreneurship went out. Mary Ann Reilly had to operate in a "man's world" and no matter how strong willed, there were serious obstacles for her.

Subsequently, his sons on their majority did not seem to have the hands-on knowledge of the gun manufacturing trade that EM had hammered into him in the 1830's. Nor did they have the generational connections to the business, or the understanding of the complex intertwining’s of its execution. The gun-trade was always a sort of dance while juggling a number of balls
-- relationship to outworkers,
-- handling in-house bench workers,
-- dealing with importation of parts (from Belgium) and the licensing for manufacturing others' patents,
-- contacts with Birmingham mass production factories
-- kowtowing to the upper class,
-- staying abreast of market trends,
-- and always advertising and promoting.

By the time Bert actually exerted control over the company, surely around 1899 after Mary’s death, its reputation and place in the English gun-making fraternity had been seriously eroded. (And Bert not bothering to attend assemblies of English gun-makers probably didn't help - fraternization, even in a cut-throat business, always is a plus. Pretending you are upper-class in Uk when all you have is money is a dead end - ask Harry Gordon Selfridge.*84g

*85 Characterizing the Reilly's:

This study has not looked at the Reilly family except where it effects the business; however, here are some possible characterizations of the Reilly's based on very limited information, much from Sally Nestor, family researcher. (There are two important points to emphasize: It would be hard to overemphasize the prejudice Irish faced in England during this time; nothing, no commercial business success, no royal patronage, could have overcome this. And, none of the London gunmakers at the time, even Purdey, would have been considered "gentlemen." Their livelihood depended on kowtowing to the British aristocracy.)

-- J.C. Reilly comes across as something of an early 19th century, self-absorbed narcissist (this from one possibly extremely prejudiced source) . Yet, he registered a silver mark - not something one can just do without true expertise and apprenticeship, and per John Campbell he was a clock-maker and a member of the "Clockmakers" guild. JC apparently had some serious mechanical skills.

-- He appears to have been rebellious, snarky, egotistical, full of himself, and independent, and probably was a difficult and demanding boss, husband, father. His wife left him, and a couple of his children apparently wanted nothing to do with him.

-- But, he had allies in the gun world, i.e. a relationship with John Blanch from pretty much the time when he first began to build his own guns. a deduction from very limited evidence. (Blanch kept Reilly advertisements from the 1840’s era in his private scrap book. In 1855 EM and Blanch's son William seem to have encouraged each other to tackle pin fire breech loaders.)

-- E.M. Reilly appears to have been an imaginative, far-sighted, organized, ambitious businessman (based on his business record). He also worked with his father from an early age in the gun making business and had extensive hands-on experience in making guns and air guns.

-- He rationalized the Reilly serial numbers, created new trade labels, and advanced new and risky products.
-- He had some excellent political connections in the gun trade - the same group of gun makers appear repeatedly together in the late 1850-early 1860 time period - Prince, Green, Deane, Reilly, Blanch, Manton and a couple of others - and given that he manufactured well in excess of 6,000 Comblain breech loaders (presumably in Birmingham) in the 1860's, he had connections there as well. He had to have had some people skills.
-- He had a talent for recognizing promising new patents and was not afraid to build them to suit or to take technological business risks trying to anticipate market demand.
-- He was definitely a Francophile in an English world where France conjured up the image of a 1000 year old structural enemy. One must wonder if he got his dander up after being snubbed by the Royal Family; he seemed to turn mockingly towards anti-gun-making establishment; giving the proverbial finger to Purdey doesn't win friends.
-- He also at least early on was a practicing Catholic and may have had a chip on his shoulder about this. As late as the 1960's John Le Carre commented in a "Murder with Quality" about this lingering English phenomenon of religious persecution. He dreamed big dreams and the biggest was snagging a contract with Arsenal. One must wonder whether his religion played a part in his inability to obtain this.
-- Paradoxically, by 1843 E.M. Reilly (Reilly, Jnr) had joined the Masonic Lodge. An advertisement in “The Freemason” from 1843 identified him as “Brother Reilly Junr.”*8i The Catholic Church held that any person identifying with or assisting the Freemasons was excommunicated. How Reilly reconciled this conundrum is unknown.
-- He would not have been regarded as a "gentleman" by the English class conscious society; no commercial gun maker was; and definitely not so when he took up with Mary Ann, a 20 year old and had four children out of wedlock. He was a businessman and a trader and though he tried to be royalty respected, he was insulted. He returned the insult by being successful.
-- He was perhaps a bit of a control freak and probably not easy to be around - especially if you were his son. (The Victorian age was not a "huggy-feely" one) (this only from interpreting the wording in his will).

. . . . .The only two known photos of E.M Reilly (from Sally Nestor's posting on ancestry.com) are attached.*85a

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

-- Edward Montague Reilly his first "son" (reputed) b.1867 probably was the pre-marriage offspring of then 50 year old EM and his then 21 year old future wife Mary. Four sons were born to EM and Mary, all technically out of wedlock; However, only Edward Montague was called a "reputed" son by his father. Edward Montague was an "engineer" and "gun maker" following somewhat in his father's footsteps. He was designated as an executor of EM's will (along with Mary). He apparently later worked on locomotives. He did not seem to have advanced education and one wonders if he were a bit "slow." His father's sneering references to him cannot have improved his psyche. In about 1893 he came down with tuberculosis and ultimately fell from an upper window at 277 Oxford Street in July 1895.

-- Mary Ann Reilly, E.M.'s wife, was a woman operating in a "man's world" after his death. The fact that she apparently ran the company for 9 years from 1890-99 is a testament to her pluckiness. There is not much known about her except by analysis.
-- She was born in 1845. No-one knows who were her parents or her background; family historians speculate that she was E.M.'s cousin. Even her maiden name is not clear - it is either Curtis or "C-o-x." At the age of 20 she seduced a 50 year old successful businessman, ignoring convention. She had 4 sons out of "wedlock" one of which may not have been his; something or someone kept them from formally marrying until the late 1870’s.
-- After EM’S death, in spite of very specifically not being left the "trade books," she apparently took over and ran a large company in Victorian, England. This is something movies are made for - sex, guns, money and power. Her offspring included later Members of Parliament. She died 12 January 1899. She deserves more attention.
-- Yet, under her guidance the company began steadily to contract. She had neither the insight into the gun business nor the connections to keep the company afloat.

. . . . .A photo is attached which possibly shows EM and Mary walking on Oxford Street near 277.*85b

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
*86 Mid-1890's: Reilly’s decline

By 1895, the death of Edward Montague, Reilly guns were no longer being mentioned as often as winners in pigeon shoots; Reilly victories and promotional donations of guns as prizes had been a prominent feature in London papers for 25 years. The number of serial number guns built by Reilly continued to decline after E.M.’s death from about 810 in 1890 to 240 in 1897.

Yet, advertisements for the firm's products continued to fill newspapers and journals,*86a although as the decade went on, the regular newspaper ads became smaller in size and content.*86b
1. January, 1892 “Fashion Magazie”
2. 1895. Warren’s Travel Guide
3. 1895, “The Field” (last ad for 4 years in “The Field”).
4. 1893, “Volunteer Services Gazette”

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Some beautiful guns were made the finest being sidelocks with a sprinkling of big bore SxS rifles.*86d Reilly even built SxS’s chambered for the .303. Quote from WW Greener’s “The Breech Loader" (1898): “My late father took with him a double .303 ejector built by Reilly and Co., and he did excellent work with it at all kinds of game.”*86e

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

And perhaps due to reputation, Reilly was still being mentioned in books at the turn of the century as a company which could make quality Africa-proof big-bore rifles. Again a quote from “The Breech-Loader” p.378: “In conclusion, I think that I shall be offering good advice by recommending intending investors in .303 arms to go to the best makers and get good value. The work of Greener, Reilly, Westley Richards, etc., can be relied on… (signed Hjenry T. Glynn, Sadie Hall, Transvaal)"*86f

Case labels during this time period continued to be the classic 16, New Oxford Street or 277, Oxford Street labels which were adopted after the closure of 2 rue Scribe (previously pictured). Note the new instructions for reloading with smokeless powders including “E.C., Schultz or Walsrode”:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Presentation Case labels continued with the now standard blue velvet interiors:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Note: In 1896, London proofs changed again with the addition of “Nitro Proof” and “1 1/4 oz Max” added. Toby Barclay marketed a gun serial numbered by Reilly in late 1898 but with the pre-1896 proof marks on the barrel.

. . . . .SN 35079 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. SLE; brls proofed pre-1896; Southgate pat 12314; Southgate ejector trip pat 8239)*86g


*87 May 1897: Closure of 16, New Oxford Street

In early May 1897 the company closed 16 New Oxford Street where it had been located for 50 years; 277 Oxford Street remained open. The closure date is illustrated by identical Reilly advertisements in the "Sporting Gazette." On 1 May 1997 the ad has both 16, New Oxford Street and 277, Oxford Street. On 8 May 1897 the identical ad has only the 277 address.*87a

What happened to the building and to the machinery is unknown. The furnishings and tools probably were sold at auction someplace. The building, however, was still intact in downtown London in the 1970's; Donald Dallas said he used to walk past it every day on his way to the London School of Economics and think about Reilly having been there for half a century.

Bespoke guns continued to be sold in the early 1890's at a goodly clip but as the decade advanced for some reason the demand for Reilly's hand-made and measured guns in a middling cost category seemed to decline. Reilly serial numbered gun production dwindled. The company's management after 1890 did not seem to have E.M.'s business sense or "touch” and perhaps his guns began to seem a bit old-fashioned.

With sales diminishing, closing the finishing facilities at 16 New Oxford street while retaining the smaller sales and manufacturing spaces at 277 Oxford Street would seem logical. (Reilly made about 400 serial numbered guns a year at 502, New Oxford Street in 1857; when 315 Oxford Street was opened production increased to about 650. Thus it looks as if 277 had a maximum production capacity of 250 guns. Once Reilly sales reached that point, there was no point keeping two workshops and retail stores open)

. . . . .SN 34723 - The last extant SN'd gun from 16 New Oxford Street is 34723, an elegant 12 bore SxS, top-lever, Damascus-barreled, hammer-gun, shotgun with Birmingham (re)proofed 30" Damascus barrels.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

For the record the Reilly shop manager at 277 at this time was James Curtis, no additional information.


*88 1890-97: label and presentation case changes

in the early 1890's within a couple of years after EM's death the company's descriptions on Reilly's presentation cases changed back to "Gun and Rifle makers" although the company was still "Gun and Rifle Manufacturers" in phone and business directories. The extant presentation cases for the most case are from 277 Oxford Street. After the closure of 16, New Oxford Street, the cases became pretty uniform. All have blue felt with the address and name printed either directly on the felt in gold letters or on a black leather label affixed to the cloth.*88a

After May 1897 the trade/case label was completely changed from the 1861-base label format and modernized.*88b 16 New Oxford Street was of course no longer on the label.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The new “modern” label displayed four sets of medals won in 1876 (Philadelphia), 1878 (Paris), 1884 (London) and 1873 (Vienna) (although there is no evidence that Reilly actually exhibited in Vienna)*88c It advertised “magazine guns” and emphasized "conversions, alterations and repairs" which perhaps at this point in the company history was an important revenue stream.


*89 1899: Death of Mary Ann Reilly; Bert takes over:

In January 1899 Mary Ann Reilly died - she was only 54.*89a No details of her death are known; no will has been uncovered. She died as she lived with much unknown about her except for her apparent formidable will.

It looks as if her two oldest surviving sons, Charles Atol. and Herbert Horace Percy (Bert) assumed control over the firm after her death. The 1901 census lists them both at 277 Oxford Street and both said they were gunmakers.*89b However, it is pretty evident that the younger brother Bert was in charge.

For whatever reason, there was a noticeable change in newspaper advertisements very soon after Mary’s death.
. . . . .-- Reilly went from having tiny ads in the late 1890’s to large format ads in “The Field” and “The Sporting Gazette.”*89c
. . . . .-- Reilly began re-using “Gun & Rifle Makers” vice “Gun Manufacturers” in his advertisements.*89d
. . . . .-- Reilly began again to advertise Eley cartridges in 1890's perhaps giving up his cartridge making revenue stream.*89e (Reilly cartridges may have been made by Eley anyway for some time). Note: Reilly since the early-mid 1990's had been advertising several different types of smokeless power one could have loaded in his shells including “E.C., Schultz or Walsrode” and included instructions attached to his gun cases on loads for these powders. However, for Reilly to finally actually acknowledge Eley (after some 20 years) was quite a step indicating that as production and revenue fell, reality had to be faced; And this reality probably intruded enough to include outsourcing gun components).
. . . . .-- Reilly for the first time also advertised using a '"try-gun" to fit customers to their bespoke guns.*89f

And yet the bleeding continued. Serial numbered gun production numbers declined steadily:
-- 250 in 1897,
-- 160 in 1898,
-- 100 in 1899,
-- .75 in 1900,
-- .70 in 1901.
Clearly management could not keep a full complement of skilled workers in-house building such a small number of guns.


*90 Move to 295 Oxford-Street, 1903-4; Trade Label Update

In March 1903 the Company vacated 277 Oxford-Street where they had been quartered for 44 years while the building was being renovated and moved 300 yards down the street to 295 Oxford-Street. It appears to have come as something of a surprise to some people. “The Field” editor was in the Reilly showroom in early February looking at rook rifles.*90a

Attached photos and maps:
. . . . .Map of Oxford Street*90b
. . . . .Contemporary photo of the area; 295 looks to be a considerably smaller building than 277 and much smaller than the current building on the site.*90c
. . . . .Google Map photo of the current building at 295.*90d

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Note: Newspaper ads for Reilly stopped in late February or early March 1903 while Reilly was still at 277, and did not resume again until May 1904 with the shop located at 295 Oxford Street.*90e Thus it appears that Reilly closed down completely for 14 months. Reilly only made about 175 guns from the time of the move from 277 to bankruptcy in June 1912, a sad commentary on the end of a storied firm.

For 1903, the chart has Reilly making only 8 guns in an 8 week period before closing (and that might be optimistic). When gun making resumed in May 1904, the chart has him making 40 guns for 1904:

. . . . . SN 35386 (1903): The last extant gun made at 277 Oxford Street should be 35394 a .410 SxS shotgun (private gun - no details).*90f

. . . . .SN 35394 (1904): The first extant gun with 295 Oxford Street, London on the rib is 35394 (it has a second serial number on it from an unknown source), a .410 single-barrel side-lever rook rifle, dated by the below chart to May 1904.*90g

The trade label continued to be the 1897 “4 medal” label but with “277” crossed out and “295” stamped above.*90h. Instruction label in the case likewise had the struck-out 277, but later used only 295. (both examples below are from guns made by Reilly 1880-1897 and refurbished after the move to 295 Oxford Street). No presentation cases with only "295" have as yet been found.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


*91 1904-1912: Reilly reduced to finishing guns bought in the white?

With this possible shutdown of the company for 14 months, it is doubtful that young Bert Reilly could have kept his gunsmiths employed. In addition, from the time the company reopened until bankruptcy eight years later, only a very small number of guns were serial numbered by Reilly, less than 25 a year. Thus it is hard to imagine Reilly after May 1904 as a complete gun-making firm as it was in the heady days of JC and EM. Bert Reilly probably resorted to finishing guns provided by outworkers in the white and concentrated on repairing and updating guns.

There are Reilly guns serial numbered n the 1880’s that bear the 295 address on the barrel or case placed after they had obviously been brought in for new barrels or for service.*90a His case labels and advertisements seem to confirm this.*91b .

Reportedly during this period (per IGC) at least one gun was built with "J.C. Reilly" and the old "Holborn Bars" address on the rib. No photos exist of this alleged gun and additional information was not provided by IGC which did not footnote its Reilly history.

There is an extant Reilly rifle converted to a shotgun which is a pair with a new four digit serial number code. What this means is unclear. This gun very much resembles Reilly rifle SN 35554:

. . . . .SN .1833 (Outlier which in the chronology should date to late 1830's) - E.M. Reilly & Co., (rebarrelled by John Harper). 12 gauge SxS Shotgun. BLE. Repurposed from a big bore rifle. 26" barrels, pistol grip. #2 of pair*91c

. . . . .SN 35554 (1907): E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London. .500/.465 SxS Nitro Express rifle, BLE. (This cartridge was introduced by Holland&Holland in spring 1907.*91d

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

There is one Reilly SN 35614 which has a serial number on the barrel for Holloway sent in by Marc Crudrington. This is one of the very few serial numbered Reilly’s, which appear to have been built definitively by a firm other than Reilly himself. The Holloway SN would date the gun to 1911. This in and of itself is significant since it skews the “numbered guns built chart."
. . . . . . . . . .-- (At the same time there is something odd about this gun; the engraving seems to revert to pre-1860 Reilly engraving and looks nothing at all like the other surviving Reilly’s from that time period. The differences are so striking as to call into question the authenticity of the gun, its serial number and address).

. . . . .SN 35614: E.M. Reilly & Co. 295 Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun; self-cocking, Side-lock, ejector built by Holloway SN "H8113" (1911) *91e

This said, there are other Reilly’s from 1911 including an extant pair, which have no outside-worker marks on them as far as can be determined from auction house advertisements and which look like proper Reilly's.*91f

. . . . .SN 35673 (1911): E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock. #1 of pair.
. . . . .SN 35674 (1911): E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. 12 bore. Shotgun SxS. Sidelock. #2 of pair.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The last extant serial numbered Reilly gun found so far is SN 35678, E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). 12 bore Shotgun SxS. Boxlock.
*92 June 1912: Bankruptcy

Per advertisements in September 1911 the company announced it was for sale or in need of new partners with cash. Its stock of guns was advertised at reduced prices for cash only.*92a

In December 1911 the company was changed to a limited liability company with George Watkinson Roberts - liquidator specialist, as one of the directors. Roberts was a bankruptcy lawyer. Reilly's continued advertising 295 for sale in Spring 1912 per newspaper advertisements. It appears Bert Reilly knew bankruptcy was coming and changed the company to protect his personal assets. He retained his separate homes after bankruptcy. It also appears that Reilly deliberately attempted to sell off as much stock as he could before bankruptcy was declared. Whether he also tried to move machinery and other items out of 295 is possible but not knowable.

Bankruptcy was declared on 06 June 1912 (publicized on 08 June 1912 in the London Monday morning papers).*92b

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . . .—SN 35678 (1911?): The last extant gun with 295 on the rib is 35678, a 12 bore SxS BLE shotgun.*92c

Note: Per the 1911 census Bert Reilly no longer lived on the premises of his workshop at 295 Oxford Street, a first for a Reilly owner.*92d Reilly's had lived in their shops since at least 1835.

*93 1912-1918: 13 High Street, Marylebone

Bert Reilly opened a small gun repair shop, "E.M Reilly & Co., Gun Maker," at 13 High Street, Marylebone in 1912 after the bankruptcy.
. . . . .—Attached map of Marylebone*93a
. . . . .—Attached googe.map photo of 13 High Street.*93b

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

No advertisements can be found for the shop though per London postal address, telephone and business directories they identified themselves as "gunmakers."
. . . . .—attached 1912 Post Office Directory – Reilly, E.M. & CO., Gun & Rifle mfrs, still at 295*93c.
. . . . .—attached 1915 Street Directory – Reilly, E.M & Co. Gunmakers, 13 High St Mrlebne*93d
. . . . .—attached 1916 Street Directory – Reilly, E.M., Gun Maker 13 High St Mrlebne*93e

No guns with this address on the rib have been found. The date of its closure is not noted although it is listed in the London telephone directory in 1918 (but not in 1919).
. . . . .—attached 1918 Street directory – Reilly E.M., Gun Maker 13 High St. Mrlebne*93f
. . . . .—attached 1918 phone directory - Mayfair 406 Reilly E.M., Gun Maker, 13 High St Mrlebne*93g
. . . . .—attached 1919 directory – E.M. Reilly not found.*93h

(Note: IGC claims that 13 High Street was occupied by Reilly as early as December of 1911 while 295 was for sale; no footnotes or validation of this claim were published. It has not been verified. London directories and telephone directories do not seem to support this assertion. Since the newspaper report of the 06 Jun 1912 extraordinary meeting to decide on bankruptcy states it was held at 295 Oxford Street, this IGC detail has to be called into question.)


. . . . . XIII. CHARLES RIGGS ERA; 1922 – 1950:


*94 Charles Riggs era, August 1922-1950?:

In August 1922 The Reilly name was bought by a sporting goods dealer named Charles Riggs. Riggs apparently decided he could use the name to promote his premium line of guns made In Birmingham (possibly built by Osborne/Midland or perhaps Holloway - based on similarity of engraving).

Charles Riggs was born in 1874 in London, one of 8 children of John Riggs. In 1878 Epping Forest, Essex, northeast of central London was saved from the ax by Parliament in the Epping Forest Act. A number of “retreats” were located there which were popular day visits for Londoners. John Riggs in particular owned several such auberges or hotels and passed them on to members of his family. One of these, “Riggs Retreat,” was located in Buckhurst Hill, Essex.*94a It was a large establishment and could allegedly sit 400 visitors for afternoon tea at one time. It featured a balcony wrapped around a huge beech tree.*94b, *94c.

By the early 1890’s Riggs’ Retreat was being run by a young Charles Riggs, who looks to have had a knack for business. In the mid 1890’s Charles Riggs began advertising Riggs Retreat as an ideal stopping point for touring bicyclists and he himself apparently became an avid cyclist. The ads in “Cycling” continued virtually weekly from 1897-1907.*94d By the mid-1900’s tennis tournaments were also being held at “Riggs’ Retreat.” Riggs likely sold tennis and cycling equipment. Golf courses were located in close proximity to the retreat and he probably became involved with that sport as well. This no doubt was his introduction to the sporting goods industry.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Also in the mid-1900’s Riggs’ Retreat became a meeting point for the Essex Yoemanry Militia.*94e Riggs as host to the militia probably became interested in guns and in the unit in the early 1900’s and quite probably also began to sell firearms at Buckhurst Hill. By 1907 he was a corporal in the Essex Yoemanry and was one of the founding members of the “Yoemanry Rifle Club.” He is mentioned in rifle match results.*94f

Business for his sporting goods stores at “Riggs Retreat” must have been profitable for in November 1908 he opened a shop in central London “C.Riggs & Co.” at 11, Queen-Victoria Street, where he advertised BSA guns, rifles and ammunition. The advertisements mention that the company was also located at Buckhurst Hill, Essex.*94g

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Around 1910 Riggs apparently sold “Riggs Retreat” (or possibly one of the other Epping Forest resorts similarly named). At that time he moved his London sporting goods shop to 3, The Arcade, Broad Street Station, Liverpool-Street. He marketed guns and rifles, selling mostly BSA products with his name on them.*94h. He is listed in the 1911 census as "Gun and Rifle Maker."

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

In 1912 he moved the company to 107, Bishopsgate billing himself as a sporting goods company. There he sold tennis and golf equipment, bicycles, soccer and cricket equipment, was involved in boxing, sold BSA motorcycles and sold guns and ammunition.*94i, *94j, *94k. His catalogs include all sorts of BSA firearms including advertisements for .303 SMLE Enfields and the like.*94l He allegedly marketed his own ammunition under the name "the Bishop" made by Eley up to at least 1914. He, also originally had his own “Riggs” brand of sporting guns and billed himself as a “gunmaker” even though his guns were built in Birmingham:
. . . . .Advertisement for a “Riggs Gun” *94m
. . . . .Case and Label for a “Riggs gun.”*94n

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Charles Riggs was by this time a sergeant in the Essex Yoemanry Militia. He wrote a pamphlet in 1915 “Practical Points of Musketry.”*94o Beginning in 1911 Riggs sponsored an annual reunion of the Essex Yeomanry (His task no doubt made simpler by his past occupation as a hotel owner and caterer).*94p Among other businesses, he brokered the sale of 1,500 Martini-Henry's to local militia groups early in WWI.

Riggs bought the Reilly name in August 1922. (Most Reilly history summaries put the date of purchase as 1917; this is belied by the dates of newspaper advertising). How and why Riggs got interested in the Reilly name is unknown.
. . . . .attached - 1st ads:*94q
1. . . . . . . . . .1922 advertisement
2. . . . . . . . . .18 Aug 1922, “Essex Newsman”
“Guns: Reilly and Co., Famous Gunmakers 100 years in Oxford Street, ask you to send for List, 107 Bishopsgate, London. C11."
3. . . . . . . . . .30 Sep 1922, “Essex Newsman”
"Guns: Best English Make, ÂŁ4 to ÂŁ40 to suit your pocket. Send for full illustrated list. E.M. Reilly & Co., Ltd., 107 Bishopsgate, London. C11. Estd 100 years in Oxford Street".
4. . . . . . . . . .07 September 1922, “Wales Brecon”
"Guns: Best English Make, ÂŁ4 to ÂŁ40 to suit your pocket. Send for full illustrated list. E.M. Reilly & Co., Ltd., 107 Bishopsgate, London. C11. Estd 100 years in Oxford Street".[/I]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The Riggs' 1922-23 catalog highlights the adoption of the Reilly name with a glowing introduction:*94r

. . . . .“The WORLD FAMED HOUSE OF E.M. REILLY & Co., late of Oxford Street, London, W. is now amalgamated with the house of CHARLES RIGGS & Co. Ltd of 107 Bishopsgate, London: E.C., thus making one of the strongest combinations ever known in the Gun Making and Sports Goods business….

. . . . .”The 'House of Reilly' is too well known in gun circles to need any comments here having been established nearly 100 years and its reputation for craftsmanship and value is a household word. All our guns in future will be named “E.M. Reilly & Co., London” thus adding another 25% to the value should you ever desire to sell it.”


The Riggs catalog featured the Reilly name as the centerpiece of his quality gun line-up, ahead of the BSA Guns. Riggs stopped specifically mentioning the Reilly name in advertisements by January 1923 but continued to label his guns as "E.M. Reilly & Co., London."

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Riggs continued to use the Reilly name on his Birmingham made guns for the next 25 years, selling over 24,000 guns (based on serial numbers). He died in 1950; “subscribers” who took over his shares in the company, per newspaper reporting pledged to continued to “carry on the business of manufacturers of and dealers in guns, rifles, pistols, revolvers.” Advertisements for Charles Riggs & Co, were still being placed in the Chelmsford newspaper in 1960. Riggs allegedly remained in business until 1966 (not confirmed; however, eyewitnesses remember walking into the sporting goods store in the early 1960’s and seeing only a few BSA air-guns).

Riggs-Reilly guns usually have "E.M. Reilly & Co., London" on the ribs; Sometimes "E.M. Reilly & Co., Ltd." As a further identifier, most of the Rigg's-Reilly's have "Prince of Wales" half pistol grip stocks, something the original Reilly firm almost never made. All the Riggs-Reilly’s were proofed in Birmingham. Riggs'-Reilly named guns have six-digit serial numbers and appear to begin at around 128000. (On occasion a Riggs-Reilly will have a 4 digit serial number). The earliest Riggs serial number so far identified is 128466). A Riggs "Reilly" with a serial number in the 150000's is known to exist.

Examples of extant Riggs-Reillys:*94s
. . . . .SN 128466 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun, 29" barrels. Nfi. 1st extant Riggs-Reilly
. . . . .SN 134481 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 ga. SxS shotgun. BLNE. 30” steel brls. 2.5” chambers
. . . . .SN 136720 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 ga SxS Shotgun. hammer gun, extractor
. . . . .SN 139564 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12 bore SxS Shotgun, hammer-gun
. . . . .SN 139801 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 12 bore Shotgun SxS. Hammer gun
. . . . .SN 150570 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock non-ejector. (Brum proofs) Last extant Riggs-Reilly

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Riggs was quite a self-promoting character and comes across in advertisements and articles as something of an annoying, pretentious, status-climbing, individual with a large ego and a huge amount of hubris and energy. There are pictures of him medaled like a royal prince claiming marksmanship trophies that the historical record doesn't support.*94t He billed himself as a yeomanry sergeant early on*94u but had promoted himself to Lieutenant later on in life.*94v He very well could have rubbed the gun establishment the wrong way.

. . . . .Charles Riggs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Prince Charles
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Reading Rigg's letters to the London Press etc., can be grating (such as this 1914 letter about his son having "the time his life" on the western front in WWI).*94w The man would have made millions in the USA with his energy and without the class chip on his shoulder. In UK the way he presented himself and his business might have resonated with the BSA motorcycle crowd, which were his customers also, but likely was deadly to the upper classes; he made a lot of money - helped soccer clubs, contributed money to a down and out boxer, etc. - but apparently not a lot of friends in the close-knit gun making fraternity.

The Riggs guns are not ugly...but are now regarded as "journeyman guns," made in Birmingham "for the trade" of medium quality. Who negotiated the sale of the Reilly name is unknown. Whether a Reilly was involved in the design of the Riggs-Reilly's is not known.

What a come-down in advertising: from weekly ads in "The Field" and almost daily advertisements in the major London newspapers, the major travel guides of the country and the most important sporting events of the year, to Rigg's tiny advertisements in the "Essex Newsman," the "Chelmsford Chronicle" and the Bracon, Wales County papers.

Note: The legend that Reilly was a retailer only probably came out of the Riggs era. There is no mention of this claim until 1990's and by that time anyone who remembered the original Reilly company had passed away and memory had faded.


. . . . . CONCLUSION .


*95 Conclusion:

Over the course of 90 years the Reilly's sold all types of guns in various qualities using all types of actions. Reilly serial numbered about 33,000 guns from circa 1828 to 1912, all built in house. Though Reilly targeted relatively budget buyers, the guns that they made had an artistic elegance and balance, which is unmistakable. Reilly was one of the first to use highly figured French walnut for their stocks and their engraving, for the most part floral scroll work, was in a finely artistic style and consistently classy. Reilly's best guns were as good as those produced anywhere in England at the time.

Gene Herbert Williams, Sep 05, 2018; last updated March 10, 2024
. . . . . ADDENDUM

List of extant guns is on p.57.

A. =============Reilly SN Date Chart==============

There are several criteria used for dating the serial numbered guns:
. . . . .1. There are about 25 chronological markers such as shop address changes for which dates are known; These include a few guns which are dated.
. . . . .2. Serial numbered guns with addresses on ribs were matched to the above address changes.
. . . . .3. Sanity checks were used - guns chambered for certain cartridges invented at certain times, guns corresponding to advertisements in newspapers, guns with labels and proof marks matching the postulated dates, etc.
. . . . .4. Changes in proof marks can be helpful but are not reliable markers
. . . . .5. Nor are patent use numbers for the most part.
For footnoting and methodology, see p.57

Legend:
. . 1828 - Year
. . 001 - 050 - Black - Main SN Chronology, SN’s by year
. . 7021 – 8186 (Blue) - JC "7000" series numbers by year
. . 4500 - 6000- not represented on the chart as yet - a hypothetical JC Reilly number series from 1840 - 1847;
. . 50 (Black numbers) – guns numbered in one year
. . I. Aug’28: Chronology: - Date markers. Chronological date marker events
. . . . .-- *1. 88: - Gun serial numbers matched to date markers.
. . . . .-- **1. 7201 – Serial number sanity checks
. . ##1. 1855 - Proof stamp change

Note: It appears that J.C. Reilly had a "5000" series of numbers from about 1841-1847. There are five such extant guns. This series has not yet been factored into the below chart. (There is an upper date limit marker for this "series" - SN 5991 - which is post March 1847 from the address on the rib. However, there is no lower date marker for the series other than the 316 High Holborn address on the ribs - which could theoretically extend back to August 1835.)

Year: . . Mainline SN . . JC 7000 series. . . . # of guns SN'd in year

1828: . . 001 - . .050. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .50
. . I. Jul ’28 - 1st advertisement for guns made at Holborn Bars
1829: . . 051 - . .180. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .130
. . . .-- *1. 88 – Feb â€29 - First extant SN’d Reilly
1830: . . 181 - . .320. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .140
1831: . . 321 - . .460. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .140
1832: . . 461 - . .600. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .140
1833: . . 601 - . .750. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .150
1834: . . 751 - . .900. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .150
1835: . . 901 - .1060. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .160
. . II. Late Aug â€35 – Move to 316, High Holborn
. . . . .-- *2. 1024 – Oct â€35 – 1st extant SN’d gun with High Holborn address
1836: ..1061 - .1240. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .180
1837: ..1241 - .1420. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .180
. . . . .-- *3. 1292 – Feb â€37 - Last serial numbered hand-gun
1838: ..1421 - .1600. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .180
1839: ..1601 - .1810. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .210
1840: ..1811 - .2030. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .220
. . III. Aug 1840 - Company name in ads changes from "J.C. Reilly" to "Reilly"; EM possibly becomes a full partner in the company.
1841: ..2031 - .2260. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .230
1842: ..2261 - .2490. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .230
1843: ..2491 - .2720. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .230
1844: ..2721 - .2960. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .230
1845: ..2961 - .3180. + 7000 - 7020. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
1846: ..3181 - .3320. + 7020 - 7130. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 250
. . . . .-- *4 . 7021 – Jan â€46 – 1st extant JC Reilly 7000 series; High Holborn address
. . . . . . . .-- *4a . 7023 – Jan â€46 – 2nd extant JC Reilly 7000 series; High Holborn address
1847: ..3321 - .3350. + 8350 – 8480. . + 7131 - 7230. - . .260
. . ++1847 - UK financial crisis
. . IV. 27 Mar â€47 - moved to 502 New Oxford Street
. . V. Apr-Dec â€47 - “Removed from Holborn” in ads
. . . . .-- *5. 3329 – Jan â€47 – last extant main-line SN’d gun at High Holborn
. . . . .-- *6. 8378 – May â€47 – 1st extant mainline SN’d gun with New Oxford St. address
. . . . .-- *7. 7201– Sep â€47 – 1st JC 7000 series with New Oxford St. address
. . . . .- **1. 7201- Sep â€47 – “Removed from Holborn” on trade label
1848: ..8481 - .8640. + 7231 - 7330. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . 260
1849: ..8641 - .8800. + 7331 - 7430. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . 270
1850: ..8801 - .8960. + 7431 - 7540. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . 270
1851: ..8961 - .9130. + 7541 - 7640. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . 270
1852: ..9131 - .9300. + 7641 - 7740. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . 270
1853: ..9301 - .9490. + 7741 - 7830. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
. . ++1853, Oct - Crimean War begins
1854: ..9491 - .9680. + 7831 - 7930. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . 290
1855: ..9681 - .9880. + 7931 - 8030. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . 300
. . ##1. 1855 - Proof stamp change; required bore size stamping (Reilly already stamped bore sizes)
1856: ..9881- 10170. + 8021 - 8120. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . .390
. . VI. 1856, Aug – First Reilly advertisement for a Lefaucheaux-style center-break gun.
. . . . .-- *8. 10054 – Aug â€56 - 1st extant SN’d Reilly center-break gun; Date matches ads
. . . . .-- **2. – 1856 production numbers: Increase after success at Paris
1857: 10171 - 10500. + 8121 - 8200. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . .410
. . ++1857 - Indian Mutiny
. . VII. Sep â€57 - JC Reilly retires; end of JC "7000 series" SN's.
. . . . .-- *9 – 8186 – Aug â€57 – Last JC 7000 series extant gun marked “Veni, Vidi, Vici”
1858: 10501 - 10910. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 410
. . VIII. Early Aug â€58 - 315 Oxford St. (Oxford Street) opened
. . XIX. Early Aug â€58 – Company name changes to “Reilly & Co.”
. . . . .- **3. 10655 – May â€58 – Early break-action gun; Demand spurred opening of 315 Oxford Street
. . . . .- **4. 10738 – Jun â€58 – 1st Prince patent (1855) breech loader rifle
. . . . .-- *10. 10782 – Jul â€58 – Prince Pat with “Reilly, New Oxford St."
. . . . . . . . . -- **10a. 10811 – Aug â€58 – Prince Pat: 1st gun with “Reilly & Co.” and 1st with “Oxford Street” address.
1859: 10911 - 11350. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 440
. . X. Mar â€59 – Company Name changes to E.M. Reilly & Co. (Gun Makers)
. . . . .-- *11. 11227 – Dec 1859 - 1st extant SN gun with "E.M. Reilly & Co." on rib
1860: 11351 - 11800. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 450
. . XI. Aug 1860 - Name become E.M. Reilly & Co. (Gun Manufacturer).
. . [color:#FF0000]XII. Dec 1860 - SN 11716 – Plaque on rifle - presented as a prize Christmas 1860

. . . . .-- *12. 11716 – Dec ’60 - Plaque on rifle - presented as a prize Christmas 1860
1861: 11801 - 12250. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 450
. . ++1861 - US War Between the States - flush times for Enfields, sniper rifles, etc.
. . XIII. Early Apr â€61 - Trade labels change to "Gun Manufacturers"; (see separate chart for dating trade labels).
1862: 12251 - 12710. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 450
. . XIV. Aug 1862 - SN 12532 – Documented London exposition gun bought by Prince of Wales
. . . . .-- *13. 12532 – Aug â€62 – Documented London exposition gun bought by Prince of Wales
1863: 12711 - 13160. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 450
1864: 13161 - 13590. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430
. . ++1864, Feb - Second Schleswig War - Breech loader shock
. . . . .-- *14. 13326 – May â€64 – Green Bros breech loader patent use #’s 16; Date matches ads
. . . . . . . . . .-- *14a. 13333 – May â€64 – Green Bros breech loader patent use # 23; Date matches ads
1865: 13591 - 14020. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430
1866: 14021 - 14460. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 440
. . ++May 1866 - UK financial crisis
. . . . .- **5. 14115 – May â€66 – 1st extant SN’d original C-F shotgun (see 1866 patents for C-F shotgun primers)
1867: 14461 - 14910. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 450
1868: 14911 - 15610. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 700
. . ##2. Proof Change:
. . XV. Mid Feb â€68 - 2 rue Scribe, Paris opened
. . . . .-- *15. 14983 - Mar â€68 – 1st gun with rue Scribe, Paris address
1869: 15611 - 16310. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 700
1870: 16311 - 17010. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 700
. . ++1870, Aug - Franco-Prussian War
1871: 17011 - 17710. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 700
. . XVI. Oct â€71 - 17574 - 1871 Gun with date plaque - given as a gift 1871.
. . . . .-- *16. 17574 - Oct â€71 – Rifle presented as a gift; history is available.
1872: 17711 - 18310. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
1873: 18311 - 18910. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
1874: 18911 - 19510. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
1875: 19511 - 20110. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
. . ##3 – Proof Change: “Not for Ball” added
1876: 20111 - 20690. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
. . . . .- **6. 20459 – Jul â€76 - 1st extant Reilly with confirmed "Not for Ball."
. . . . .- **7. 20623 – Dec â€76 – Last Reilly with Purdey Pat 1104 use# 4928; pat expired 01 May â€77
1877: 20691 - 21270. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 580
1878: 21271 - 21850. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 580
. . . . .- **8. 21839 – Dec â€78 – Last Reilly with Scott spindle pat 2752, use# 8699; pat expired 25 Oct â€79.
1879: 21851 - 22430. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 580
1880: 22431 - 23010. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 590
. . . . .- **9. 22482 – Jan â€80 - 1st extant Reilly box-lock; Reilly advertised boxlocks in May 1875 but did not really push the genre until 1880
1881: 23011 - 23630. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 620
. . XVII. Nov â€81 – Oxford Street renumbered: 502 to 16; 315 to 277
. . . . .- *17. 23536 – Nov â€81 - 1st use of renumbered addresses 277, 16 on a gun
. . . . .- **10. 23536 – Nov â€81 - 1st use of renumbered addresses 277, 16 on a box lock
. . . . .- **11. 23574 – Dec â€81 - 8 lb pigeon gun, the ’82 Hurlingham weight limit, made for 1882 season
. . . . .- **12. 23574 – Dec â€81 - 1st Reilly gun with a Whitworth Steel barrel; Reilly began to advertise Whitworth steel barrels in early Jan '82.
1882: 23631 - 24680. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1050
. . . . .- **13. 1882 increased production – Selling off the rack and buy boxlocks in the white
. . . . .- **14. 24534 – Nov â€82 – 7lb 8oz pigeon gun, the ’83 Hurlingham weight limit, made for 1883 season
1883: 24681 - 25730. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1050
1884: 25731 - 26780. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1050
1885: 26781 - 27820. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1040
. . XVIII. 1 Aug 1885 – rue Scribe, Paris closed
. . . . .-- *18. 27358 – Jul â€85 – Last extant Reilly with rue Scribe on the rib
1886: 27821 - 28860. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1040
1887: 28861 - 29900. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1040
. . ##4. Proof Change: “Not for Ball” replaced by “choke” etc.
1888: 29901 - 30940. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1040
1889: 30941 - 31840. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 900
1890: 31841 - 32650. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 810
. . ++Jul 1890 - EM Reilly dies
1891: 32651 - 33250. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600
. . XIX. Feb 1891– SN 32760 – Plaque on gun – “presented on 26 Mar 1891”
. . . . .-- *19. 32760 – Feb â€91– Plaque on gun – “presented on 26 Mar 1891”
1892: 33251 - 33600. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 350
1893: 33601 - 33880. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
1894: 33881 - 34160. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280
1895: 34161 - 34400. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
1896: 34401 - 34640. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
. . ##5 - Proof change
1897: 34641 - 34900. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
. . XX. Early May ’97 - closure of 16 New Oxford Street
. . . . .-- *20. 34723 – Apr ’97 – Last extant Reilly with 16 New Oxford Street address
1898: 34901 - 35030. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 160
1899: 35031 - 35140. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 110
1900: 35141 - 35240. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 75
. . . . .- **15. 35186 – Aug â€00: - Post 1897 trade label; London 1896-1904 proof marks
1901: 35241 - 35325. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70
1902: 35326 - 35395. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60
1903: 35386 - 35393. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 08
. . XXI. Feb â€03 - 277 Oxford St. closes
. . . . .-- *21. 35386 – Jan â€03 - Last extant SN with 277 Oxford (?)
1904: 35394 - 35435. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40
. . ##6 - Proof change: "Nitro Proof" and max load added.
. . XXII. May â€04 - 295 Oxford St. opens
. . . . .-- *22. 35394 – May â€04 - First SN with 295 Oxford
1905: 35436 - 35475. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40
1906: 35476 - 35515. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40
1907: 35516 - 35555. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40
. . . . .- **16. 35554 – Dec â€07 - 500/.465 Nitro Express SxS BL rifle – cartridge intrduced spring â€07.
1908: 35556 - 35575. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20
1909: 35576 - 35589. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
1910: 35590 - 35599. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
1911: 35600 - 35685. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 85
. . . . .- **17. 35614 – Feb â€11 - built by Holloway, SN H8113 (dated to 1911)
. . . . .-- *23. 35678 – Dec â€11:- Last extant Reilly
1912: 35686 - 35700. - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
. . XXIII. 06 Jun ’12: Bankruptcy declared 06 June; vacated 295 Oxford Street
. . XXIV. Aug ’12: 13 High Street, Marylebone opened
1913 - 1918: Zero known. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0
. . XXIV. Jul ’18: 13 High Street, Marylebone closed

Post August 1922 – c1950: 128000 - 150000. - . . . . . . 22,000?
. . XXIV. 20 Aug 1922 – 1950? - Riggs production
. . . . .-- *24. 128466 – 1922 - 1st known extant Riggs marked SN’d “Reilly”
. . . . .-- *25. 150570 – 1950? - Last known extant Riggs marked SN’d “Reilly”

B. =============Footnotes to identified gun list==============

. .1) Process: The process of dating the guns was difficult but with a methodology that was refined as the research developed, basically as follows:
1. Identify known chronological markers – usually dates of the change of addresses on ribs but occasionally dated SN’d gun.
2. Identify the first and last serial number associated with these known chronological dates and make a reasonable estimation of how many gun serial numbers should be alloted to each year, factoring in other data.
3. Sanity check the conclusions by looking at various guns to see if their parameters fit the postulation.


. .2) Chronological date markers:
. . . . . I. 1828, Jul - 1st advertisement for guns made at Holborn Bars: Reilly was NOT mentioned in an 1825 list of London gun-makers. Reilly was never a Freeman of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers. The first ad in the London newspapers specifically for Reilly made guns so far found is in 1830. However, a July 1828 ad makes it clear that he was selling guns made by him. For this reason 1828 is listed as the start date for Reilly gun manufacture.
. . . . . II. 1835, Late Aug – Move to 316, High Holborn: Per newspaper advertisements in late August Reilly moved to 316 High Holborn. Example: “Joseph Charles Reilly will be removing at the end of this month, to the spacious premises, 316, High Holborn…” (“London Morning Chronicle,” 24 Aug 18). For a year after the move from Holborn Bars, the phrase “Removed from Holborn Bars” appeared in his advertisements.
. . . . . III. 1840, August - Company name changed to just "Reilly in ads.
. . . . . IV. 1847, 27 Mar – J.C. Reilly moved from High Holborn to 502 New Oxford Street on 27 Mar 1847. “The lease of these premises will expire at Lady-day next, and he is RE-MOVING to another Establishment in New Oxford-street, the Elizabethan Buildings. (“Morning Post,” 20 Mar 1847). This is confirmed by a follow-on ad “Premises in Holborn having expired at Lady-day last, he has REMOVED to 502, NEW OXFORD STREET…” (“Morning Advertiser,” 31 Mar 1847)
. . . . . V. 1847, Apr-Dec - “Removed from Holborn” in ads. “Reilly, Gun-maker, New Oxford-street – REMOVED FROM HOLBORN,” (“Illustrated London News,” 03 Apr 1847); By late November 1847 the phrase was no longer used. This is an important item for dating guns using the trade label as a confirmation.
. . . . . VI. 1856, Aug – First Reilly advertisement for a Lefaucheaux-style center-break gun. Reilly began working on a break-action gun in 1855, probably as a result of Lang’s exhibit in Paris. His first advertisements for a Lefaucheaux style break-action gun appeared in August 1856 and he is recognized as one of the pioneers of the genre.
. . . . . VII. 1857, Sep - JC Reilly retires. He announced in newspaper ads, “JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY is retiring in favor of his son Edward.” (“London Daily News, 02 Sep 1857). End of 7000 series SN’s.
. . . . . VIII. 1858, Early Aug - 315 Oxford St. (Oxford Street) opened, almost certainly as a result of surging demand for Reilly breech-loaders. The first ad for 315 appeared in “The Field,” 07 Aug 1858. “REILLY, 502, New Oxford-street; and the Shooting Galleries, No. 315, near the Regent-circus.”
. . . . . IX. 1858, Early Aug – Company name changes to “Reilly & Co, Gun Maker.” Apparently when 315 Oxford Street opened, Reilly changed the name to “Reilly & Co.” Several newspaper ads use this name. Reilly later wrote that he took on some new partners at this time (unknown). The company likely established the new workshop because of skyrocketing demand for Reilly center-break guns as mentioned in “the Field” article in Oct 1858.
. . . . . X. 1859, Mar – Company Name changes to "E.M. Reilly & Co, Gun Makers." This name first appeared in ads in March 1859. (“E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street,” 05 Mar 1859). Although “Reilly & Co.,” continued to be used for awhile in other ads.
. . . . . XI. 1860, Aug – Company Name changes to E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturer (singular)
. . . . . XII. 1860, Dec – SN 11716 - Plaque on .577 Enfield rifle with E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London, on the barrel shows it was presented as a prize Christmas 1860. It was probably serial numbered several weeks before.
. . . . . XIII. 1861, early Apr – Reilly trade labels changed definitively using “Gun Manufacturers” (pl) for the first time confirmed by both advertisements and by the 1861 census. This is important for using trade labels to help date a gun (see separate chart).
. . . . . XIV. 1862, Aug – SN 12532 – Documented Sep ’62 London exposition gun bought by Prince of Wales. This gun was discussed in a Bradshaw guide to the exposition September 1862 and was likely numbered 8 weeks earlier. It has the Prince of Wales feathers on it.
. . . . . XV. 1868, Mid Feb - 2 rue Scribe, Paris opened. First mentioned of rue Scribe was in an advertisement in “The Field,” 09 Feb 1868.
. . . . XVI. 1871, Oct - SN 17574 - Plaque on a .500 double rifle given as a gift to his brother by Leonard Jerome (American grandfather of Winston Churchill), probably after their return from a "millionaires's uint guided by Buffalo Bill Cody in summer 1871.
. . . . . XVII. 1881, Nov – Oxford Street renumbered: 502 to 16; 315 to 277. This renumbering date is verified by numerous “before and after” advertisments from the period.
. . . . . XVIII. 1885, 01 Aug – rue Scribe, Paris closed. Advertisements in the Bell’s Life in late July 1885 continued to list rue Scribe, Paris. Identical advertisements first week of August 1885 had no Paris address.
. . . . . XIX. 1891, Feb – SN 32760 – Plaque on gun – “presented on 26 Mar 1891”. The gun is a boxlock presented by sons to a father. I was no doubt ordered and serial numbered a couple of months before presentation.
. . . . . XX. 1897, Early May - closure of 16 New Oxford Street. Idential advertisments in “Sporting Gazette” show 16 present on 01 May 97 and no longer there on 08 May 97. Reilly had been at 16 (formerly 502) New Oxford Street for 50 years. However, by 1897 new gun sales had declined to 240. It was economically impossible to keep two workshops open making such a low volume of guns.
. . . . . XXI. 1903, Feb - 277 Oxford St. closes. The last ad for 277 Oxford St. appeared in “The Field” on 14 Feb 1903. An article in the same issue indicated “the Field” editor had shortly before visited Reilly’s shop to inspect an air-gun. Reilly disappeared from print after these advertisements and did not surface again for 14 months. He apparently sold the building and moved on.
. . . . . XXII. 1904, May - 295 Oxford St. opens, The first advertisements for 295 Oxford Str. Appeared in the 21 May 1904 edition of “The Field.” Reilly labels at this time used the old labels with 277 crossed out and 295 stamped above it.
. . . . . XXIII. 1912, 06 Jun - Bankruptcy declared 06 June; vacated 295 Oxford Street. This was announced in the London Gazette on Monday 08 June 1912. 295 shortly after was taken over by a high-class London woman’s tailor.
. . . . . XXIV. 1912, Aug - 13 High Street, Marylebone opened. After the closure of 295 Bert Reilly opened a small gun repair/sales shop in Marylebone as “E.M. Reilly & Co.” The shop was tiny. No guns with this address on ribs have been found; no advertisements for it exist. It was listed in London 1913 post office and telephone directories.
. . . . . XXV. 1918, Jul - 13 High Street, Marylebone closed. E.M. Reilly & Co. was listed in the 1918 post office and telephone directories; The shop was not so listed in 1919.
. . . . . XXV. 1922, 18 Aug - Riggs production. Per newspaper advertisements Charles Riggs bought the Reilly name in August 1922. The first ad appeared in the 18 Aug 1922 edition of the “Essex Newsman.” The name/address on the ribs was "EM Reilly & Co., London." Riggs' had historical connections to BSA - however, some believe his guns were built by Osborn/Midland. The serial numbers became 6 digits apparently beginning around 128000. In addition to 6 digit serial numbers most "Riggs-Reilly's" had "Prince of Wales" stocks.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


. .3. Gun SN’s matched to Chronological Dates:
. . . . . -- *1. . . . .88 – Feb â€29 . .- 001 is chosen as the number of Reilly first gun. 1st extant SN'd gun is 88 a pair of .50 cal hexagonal Damascus barreled dueler percussion pistols. Addresses on barrels are "J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, London." The owner, a private UK citizen, wrote that his great-great-great grandfather bought them in London in 1829. Date Marker footnote I.
. . . . . -- *2. . . 1024 – Oct â€35 . .- Reilly moved to 316 High Holborn in late Aug ’35 (see X footnote above). The 1st extant SN’d gun with High Holborn address is SN 1024. It is am 8mm pocket pistol hammergun with a steel barrel, marked “Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London.” Reily later made and sold dozens of these small pocket pistols. Date Marker footnote II.
. . . . . -- *3. . . 1292 – Feb â€37 - Last serial numbered Reilly-made hand-gun. It is a 120 bore, steel barrel, percussion miniature pocket pistol marked “Reilly, London.” No other serial numbered Reilly nand-guns have been found though he sold hundreds of them over the next 75 years.
. . . . . -- *4. . . 7021 – Jan â€46 – In 1846 JC Reilly appears to have split his numbering systems. He kept a series starting at SN 7000 for himself, while the main-line serial numbers continued, possibly overseen by now 30 year old EM. 7021 is the 1st extant JC Reilly gun in the new JC Reilly 7000 series. It is a 20bore single barrel muzzle loadiing percussion shotgun, a “boy’s gun.” It has the 316 High Holborn address on the barrel. Date Marker footnote III & IV.
. . . . . . . . . . -- *4a. . 7023 – Jan â€46 – As confirmation of 7021, 7023 is an 11 bore, SxS percussion shotgun with J.C. Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London, on the rib
. . . . . --*5. . . 3329 – Jan â€47 – Upon the move from High Holborn to 502 New Oxford Street the mainline Reilly serial numbers were jumped up 5,000 numbers from about 3350 to 8350 (see footnote III above). The last extant main-line SN’d gun at High Holborn is 3329, a 10 ga/.58 cal SxS percussion shotgun with Joseph Charles Reilly, 316, High Holburn, London.on the rib.
. . . . . -- *6. . . 8378 – May â€47 – Once installed at 502 New Oxford Street (27 Mar 1847, date marker III above) the mainline Reilly serial numbers were jumped up 5000 numbers from 3350 to 8350. 8378 is 1st extant mainline SN’d gun with New Oxford St. address; It is a 10 bore SxS perussion Shotgun with J.C. Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street,London, on the rib. "Removed from Holborn" is on the trade lable. Date marker footnote IV.
. . . . . . . . . . --*6a. . 8463 – Nov â€47 – As confirmation of the above, SN 8463 labeled in late Nov 1847) is a 390 cal SxS percussion 5 groove rifle with “Reilly, New Oxford Street, London;” on the rib. Like 8378, 8463 has a trade label with "J.C. Reilly, removed from Holborn." Date marker footnote IV.
. . . . . -- *7. . . 7201 – Sep â€47 – The first JC 7000 series with New Oxford St. address is 7201. It is a .577 cal. Single barrel percussion rifle. The trade lable includes "J.C. Reilly, removed from Holborn."
. . . . . -- *8. . 10054 – Sep â€56 - This is the first SN’d extant Reilly center-break gun made on the Lefaucheaux principle. It is a 15 bore, SxS pin-fire, single bite, forward U-L, break-action gun with Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London. On the rib. See Date Marker footnote VI) (Note: This is possibly the oldest extant UK-made center-break gun.). Date Marker footnote VI.
. . . . . -- *9. . . 8186 – Aug â€57 – Last JC 7000 series extant gun. It is a .650 ca. Minie ball, single-barrel percussion rifle with “Reilly, New Oxford Street, London.” On the rib. It is alo marked “Veni, Vidi, Vici” (I came, I saw, I conquered), Ceasar’s quote which JC Reilly began to engrave on his 7000 series guns in 1855. Date Marker footnote VII.
. . . . . -- *10. .10782 – Jul â€58 - - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. .(not “Reilly & Co.”): 577 cal; Rifle; single barrel, breech loader, hammer gun.31" brls. Frederic Prince patent. Date Marker footnote VIII and IX.
. . . . . . . . . . -- *10a. 10811 – Oct â€58 - 1st extant SN gun with "Reilly & Co." on rib. Also first Reilly SN’d gun with the Oxford Steet adress. The gun is a .25 bore, single barrel Prince Patent breech-loader hammer gun. See Date Marker footnote VIII and IX.
. . . . . -- *11. .11227 – Sep â€59 - 1st gun with “E.M. Reilly & Co” on the rib. It is a .577 cal. Enfield 3-band rifle. Date Marker footnote X.
. . . . . -- *12. .11716 – Dec ’60 - Plaque on rifle - presented as a prize Christmas 1860; It is a .577 Enfield rifle. muzzle loader, volunteer rifle with E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London; on the barrel. It likely was number 3-4 week before presentation. Date Marker footnote XI.
. . . . . -- *13. .12532 – Aug â€62 – Documented Sep ’62 London exposition gun bought by Prince of Wales. It is a 12 bore SxS, percussion shotgun guilded/gold washed and commented on in the 16 Sep 1862 Bradshaw guide to the fair. The Prince of Wales feather emblem is on the gun. Date Marker footnote XII.
. . . . . -- *14. .13326 – May ’64 – In early Marc ’64 Reilly announced that he had manufacturing rights to the Green Bros. .577 cal. single barrel patent breech loaders in the London press. Per newspaper advertisements he made a number of these guns in May ’64 for the then upcoming trials for a UK interim breech-loader (ultimately won by Snider). 13326 is Pat use #16 with “E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London” on the barrel, certainly made in May 1864.
. . . . . . . . . . -- *14a. 13333 – May ’64 – Green Bros Pat use #23 with “E.M. Reilly & Co., 502, New Oxford Street, London;” on the rib. The guns have consequative Reilly SN’s and Green Bros. pat use numbers.
. . . . . -- *15. .14983 - Mar â€68 – 1st gun with rue Scribe, Paris address; It is an 8 bore SxS, C-F, U-L hammer gun shotgun with “E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London & 2, rue Scribe, Paris” on the rib. The hammers are unusual. Date Marker footnote XIII.
. . . . . -- *16. .17574 - Oct â€71 – Rifle presented as a gift with an 1871 plaque, probably fall â€71. Date Marker footnote XIV
. . . . . -- *17. .23536 – Nov â€81 - 1st use of renumbered addresses 277, 16 on a gun. This is a 12 ga SxS BLNE shotgun with steel parrels (A&D patent use#3814 with “E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London” on the rib. Date Marker footnote XV.
. . . . . -- *18. .27358 – Jul â€85 – Last extant Reilly with rue Scribe on the rib. 12 bore SXS side-lock, top-lever, extractor shoggu with “E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris” 0n the rib. It has Perkes Pat action use#603 and the Scott Gas Check Pat use#1614. Date Marker footnote XVI
. . . . . -- *19. .32760 – Feb â€91 – Plaque on gun – “presented on 26 Mar 1891” as a birthday present to a father from his sons. It is a 12 bore SxS top-lever, BLE rifle and was probably ordered six weeks prior to presentation. Date Marker footnote XVII.
. . . . . -- *20. .34723 – Apr ’97 – Last extant Reilly with 16 New Oxford Street address. 12 ga top-lever, hammer-gun SxS shotgun with “E.M Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London.” On the rib. See Date Marker footnote XVIII.
. . . . . -- *21. .35386 – Jan ’03 – Believed to be the last extant SN’d gun numbered at 277 Oxford St (the address is not clear). .410 SxS Shotgun. Top lever, Hammer gun. Date Marker footnote XIX
. . . . . -- *22. .35394 – May â€04 - First SN from 295 Oxford St. .297/.250 Single barrel rook rifle; central hammer, S-L, ejector. with “E.M. Reilly & Co. 295, Oxford Street, London” on the rib. Date Marker footnote XX.
. . . . . -- *23. .35678 – Dec â€11 - Last extant Reilly, a 12 bore SxS top-lever boxlock shotgun (address unknown). Date Marker footnote XXI
. . . . . -- *24. 128466 – Sep 1922 - 1st known extant Riggs marked SN’d “Reilly,” a 12 bore SxS boxlock shotgun with “E.M. Reilly & Co., London,” on the rib. Date Marker footnote XXIV.
. . . . . -- *25. 150570 – 1950? - Lastt known extant Riggs marked SN’d “Reilly.” It is a 12 gauge BLNE SxS shotgun with “E.M. Reilly & Co., London,” on the rib.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


. . 4). Sanity Checks: - Checking individual guns to see if they match the dating hypothesis:
. . . . . **1. .7201 – Sep â€47 – The first JC 7000 series with New Oxford St. address is 7201. It is a .577 cal. Single barrel percussion rifle. The trade lable includes "J.C. Reilly, removed from Holborn."
. . . . . **2. – 1856 production numbers : After his triumph at Paris in 1855 - "all guns were sold and many orders booked." The increase in production by 100 guns for 1856 reflects this.
. . . . . **3. 10655 – Mar ’58 - Early 1858 Reilly pinfire on the Lefaucheux principle numbered shortly before the April “the Field” trials; No one in UK could have made that gun for Reilly other than Lang or possibly Blanch; "The Field" mentioned that fall that Reilly along with Blanch and Lang were "overdone with orders" for breech loaders, likely the reason that in Aug 1858 he opened "the Manufactory" at "Arsenal House," 315 Oxford Street - to satisfy this demand.
. . . . . **4. 10738 – Jun â€58 - Reilly began making under license Prince Patent breech loaders soon after the Patent was taken out in 1855. Reilly may have been behind a March 1858 letter signed by 12 London gunmakers urging Arsenal to reconsider the Prince. 10738 was serial numbered in summer 1858 - 1st extant Prince Patent gun.
. . . . . **5. 14115 – Mar â€68 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (address not mentioned). Shotgun SxS; center-fire, U-L, non-rebounding hammer gun; wedgefast forearm; First extant center-break, center-fire shotgun. (In 1866 two patents were issued for centerfire primer shells for shotguns making C-F shotguns practical).
. . . . . **6. 20459 – Jul â€76 – In summer 1875 UK proofmarks changed to include “not for ball” for a choked shotgun, as a result of Greener’s Spring ’75 demonstration of the concept. Reilly first adversed a choked shotgun in May ’75. The first extant Reilly shotgun with the new markings is 20459, a 16 ga. Shotgun SxS. S-L, hammer gun, marked “E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris” on the rib.
. . . . . **7. 20623 – Dec ’76 - Purdey patent 1104 use #4928, the last Reilly with a Pat 1104 use #. The Purdey patent expired 01 May 1877. (There are later guns with what appears to be the Purdey double-bite system but the Patent use numbers are not mentioned or displayed in photographs)
. . . . . **8. 21839 – Dec â€78 – Last Reilly with Scott spindle pat 2752, use# 8699; pat expired 25 Oct â€79. This gun from late Dec '78-early Jan '79 does not have the Purdey Patent 1104 use number. (Purdey double bite patent 1104 and the Scott Spindle patent were often used together.)
. . . . . **9. 22482 – Jan â€80 - 1st extant Reilly box-lock; Reilly advertised boxlocks in May 1875 but did not really push the genre until 1880. Really did write a blurb on his company in 1885 claiming that beginning in 1880 he strongly promoted boxlocks.
. . . . . **10. 23536 – Nov â€81 - The address numbers for Oxford Street were rationalized in November 1881 - before that time there were 7 houses on Oxford Street numbered "315." 502 New Oxford Street became "16" - "315" became "277." 23536 according to the chart would have been numbered in Nov '81.
. . . . . **11. 23574 – Dec â€81 - For the 1882 season Hurlingham rules weight limit for pigeon guns was fixed at 8 lbs. This pigeon gun built in late 1881 for the new upcoming season weighs 8 lbs.
. . . . . **12. 23574 – Dec â€81 - 1st Reilly gun with a Whitworth Steel barrels. Reilly began to advertise Whitworth barrels in early Jan 1882.
. . . . . **13. 1882 production numbers : In January 1882 Reilly noted in an advertisement that he was selling ready-made guns. At the same time he began for the first time to strongly promote boxlocks patented in 1875 per an article in the UK press. Reilly production jumped from an afterage of 650 a year (for the previous 15 years) to over 1000 a year with no expansion of manufacuring faciities. This likely indicated a change in his business model and his using boxlocks bought in the white from Birmingham and finished in London, as did the entire London trade.
. . . . . **14. 24534 – Nov â€82 - For the 1883 season Hurlingham rules weight limit for pigeon guns was changed to 7 lbs 8 oz. This pigeon gun built in late 1882 for the new rules weighs 7 lbs 8 oz.
. . . . . **15. 35186 - Jun ’00 - Dated on the chart as 1900; iThis gun has a post-1898 trade label and London 1896-1904 proof marks
. . . . . **16. 35554 – Dec 1907 - Reilly double rifle chambered for .500/.465 with 295 Oxford St. address on the barrels. The chart dates it as late 1907. This cartridge was introduced by Holland & Holland in spring 1907.
. . . . . **17. 35614 – 1911 - Reilly SxS shotgun built by G&S Holloway with H8113 SN on barrel. The Holloway SN is documented as 1911. Reilly apparently sold off most of his guns in late 1911 due to catastrophic losses at 40% mark-down, which explains the high number of guns sold in 1911. (This gun is so different in styling from other Reilly’s that there may be a questions about its authenticity.)
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


. . 5) ##1 - ##6 - London proofmarks (Diggory Hadoke's chart)
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C. =============Dating chart for Reilly Labels==============
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Really Serial Numbered Martini-Henry. Again this is not to bring back the Reilly line - the history is written; but this gun has just changed that history a bit:

Chapter 53 above on p.94), a chapter on Reilly built Martini-Henry, the final paragraph states this:

"There are many extant Reilly-made sporterized Martini-Henry’s in half a dozen calibers, one being an 8-bore (cal .775) big game gun. Several are pictured.(*53h, *53i, *53j, *53k) He engraved and retailed M-H’s; he may have assembled rifles himself at the 315 Oxford Street manufactuary using actions and barrels sent from elsewhere. Like the other gun makers, however, none of these have Reilly serial numbers. Reilly apparently did not serial number assembled guns."

Well here is a Reilly Martini-Hentry SN 33899. It does NOT have the Martini-Henry patent logo or the traditional Braendlin Armoury Co. crossed pennants roundel (example shown below from another Reilly).

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I guess once the patent expired (and the question of who held that patent is still up in the air), Reilly did make those guns. This is the first one I've run across; never say never in the gun world:

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.c...+++736+&refno=++194231&saletype=
GOOD .577-450 (M/H) SINGLE-SHOT SPORTING RIFLE SIGNED E.M. REILLY & CO., serial numbered 33899 and 50951, 
circa 1900, with 28 3/4in. ovoid blued barrel, matted machine engraved flat sighting plane signed 'E.M. REILLY & CO. 277 OXFORD ST. LONDON W.', dove-tailed fore-sight, rear-sight of three folding leaves and one standing notch (originally equipped with an additional ladder now absent), border engraved action with machine engraved panels to both sides, tear-drop cocking indicator and thumb safe to right hand side, Reilly's serial number (33899) to top of wrist, chequered pistol-grip walnut butt-stock with roll-engraved iron heel-plate, finger lever with loop tip, chequered walnut splinter fore-end with moulded horn tip and eyelets for sling 


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[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
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This is not meant to bring the Reilly line back; The book is still being edited.

However, For the first time in three years a Reilly gun has come to light which required extensive changes in the dating chart on p.57.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...raved-e-m-reilly-co-12-bore-double-rifle

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

This is SN 32760 , a 12 bore SxS rifle, top lever, BLE with 28" barrels. It is adorned with a plaque saying it was presented as a birthday present on 26 March 1891. This means it was likely ordered and numbered a couple of months earlier.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The chart on p.57 had this serial number as being made in 1893. The chart has been updated which required moving a lot of serial numbers backwards in time a couple of years.

This changed a few things, altering the dated serial numbers based on known data points from the July 1885 closure of rue Scribe (last SN 27340) to this March 1991 (32760), up to the May 1897 closure of 16 Oxford street (last SN 34723).
1) Reilly's average production of 1040/50 serial numbered guns a year in the 1880's did not decline until after E.M.'s death in 1890. After his death there was a much steeper descent.
2) It moved several guns serial numbered in the 30300 series which still have the 1887 proof stamp "Not for Ball" (including Terry Lubzinski's Reilly from this board) back to the year 1888, a more understandable date.

These are all educated guesses based on certain "marker" numbers. There are 24 specific datable data points for Reilly serial numbers identified from 1828 to 1912. This becomes one of them. See p.57 footnotes to explain the process.

As more guns come to light, the chart will continue to be refined. (There are currently 575 Reilly guns with serial numbers whose parameters are known in the database, 1.6% of his total output over 90 years. In addition there are about 40 early Reilly's in my database whose serial numbers were not published in the advertisements. Hopefully they'll reappear).

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Another Reilly has come to light which requires revision of the dating chart. This is SN 17574, with an 1871 dedication plaque on it. My chart puts that SN in the middle of 1872; the chart must be modified:

-- The dating chart needs to gain about numbered 300-400 guns from mid-Feb 1868 opening of Rue Scribe, Paris (1st SN 14983) up to fall 1871 (17574)

-- and lose 300-400 numbered guns from fall 1871 to the next chronological marker in Nov 1881 (1st SN 23536).

-- A couple of "sanity check" guns on the chart will have to be accommodated: For instance 20459 - the first confirmed by photos extant Reilly with "Not for Ball" - is currently dated Jul, 1876. It looks to be staying pretty much in the same date-place and will anchor the analyses.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...ble-rifle-of-lawrence-r-jerome-from-1871
Lot 3065: E.M. Reilly & Co. Double Rifle of Lawrence R. Jerome from 1871
Historic Engraved E.M. Reilly & Co. Jones Rotary Underlever Hammer Double Rifle in .500/.450 No. 1 Express Inscribed to Lawrence R. Jerome from his brother Leonard W. Jerome, Grandfather of Winston Churchill, in 1871, the Same Year the Brothers Participated in the Famous "Millionaires Hunt" in the American West with General Sheridan and Buffalo Bill Cody
Auction Date: May 21, 2023
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Winston Churchill's mother Jeanette was of course an American nee "Jerome." Her father Leonard Jerome presented this gun to his brother Lawrence in New York City in 1871. Leonard Jerome was fantastically wealthy. . see profile.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Jerome

The write-up is very long and mentions that Leonard Jerome had been in Europe as an observer of the Franco-Prussian war. It is quite likely that he bought the rifle later that year from Reilly. It could have been ordered in Paris or London. The gun could not have been a birthday gift to Lawrence. . .he was born Jan 20, 1820. It could have been presented after their return from the Cody guided hunt that summer . .sort of a one-upmanship - "You failed to drop that Bison and lost your horse in the process - so try this one."
A Reilly percussion gun is being auctioned tomorrow at wilson55 in UK which is causing some reevaluation including changing the dates on several guns - resolving the "problem" of several "outlier" serial numbers:
https://www.wilson55.com/auction/lo...e-by-side-shotgun/?lot=167136&au=443

REILLY PERCUSSION 10 BORE DOUBLE BARREL SIDE BY SIDE SHOTGUN
Reilly percussion 10 bore double barrel side by side shotgun, probably bored out from a rifle, the 27.5inch broadly patterned Damascus barrels of stout proportions and proofed as a 12 bore, the fine scroll engraved lock, named Reilly, chequered stock with scroll engraved steel furniture and pineapple finial trigger guard.


No SN on the Tang but SN 5759 on the barrel.

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This is the fourth, possibly the fifth Reilly from the 1840's in a hypothetical 4500-5900 series of numbers. These serial numbers cannot be explained very well but cannot be ignored. I wanted to post this in case someone is looking at that gun or has a Reilly that might fall into this series.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Here is the current text from the Reilly history edited after the appearance of the above gun:

*14 Hypothetical J.C. "5500" Serial Number series early/mid 1840's:

There are four (possibly five) extant Serial Numbered SxS percussion guns ranging from 5512 to 5991 from apparently the early to mid-1840's which are very similar; It may be that J.C. Reilly had a 5500 serial number series of some sort. If so this would increase the number of guns made from 1840-48 by some 500. if this series were connected to 4573 it would add a good 1,500 guns to the total Reilly made during this period.

It may be that J.C. and E.M. split their gun numbering series around 1840 when E.M. apparently became a full partner (and when the firm began using just "Reilly" in its advertisements) well before the move to Oxford Street, E.M. keeping the main-line series and jumping it to 8350 in 1847 and J.C. numbering guns with the 4500-6000 series and jumping those numbers to the 7000 series in 1846; More guns are needed to establish this point. (There is an upper date limit marker for this "series" - 5991 - which is post March 1847 from the address on the rib. However, there is no lower date marker for the series other than the 316 High Holborn address on the ribs - which could extend back to August 1835.)

. . . -- SN 4573 - c1841, a 7 gauge, smoothbore, short single barrel, dangerous game gun with "J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London" on the barrel. The gun appears to be from the 1840-1844 timeframe.*13a

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

. . . -- SN 5512 – 1843-47?, a 16 bore SxS muzzle loader shotgun, which has “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London now 502 New Oxford Street” on the rib, the only gun found so far with both addresses and it would appear numbered around the time of the move. However, the two addresses are printed a slightly different font indicating 5512 may have been brought in for maintenance after the March 1847 move and re-engraved at that time; *14a

. . .-- SN 5580 – 1843-47?, a 12 bore SxS muzzle loader shotgun, which has “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London” on the rib, (engraving and format very similar to 5512 above); *14b

. . .-- SN xxxx – 1843-47?, The engraving on 5512 and 5580 match remarkably to a 12 bore SxS percussion gun advertised by Christies with “J.C. Reilly, 316 High Holborn, London” on the rib; The SN was unpublished, however, it could be part of this possible “5500 series.” *14c

. . .-- SN yyyy – 1843-47?, The engraving on 5512 and 5580 also match quite well a 16 bore Reilly SxS percussion shotgun with “Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London” on the rib.*14d

. . .-- SN 5759 – 1845-47?, a 10 bore SxS percussion shotgun, serial numbered “5759” on the barrels; no SN on the tang. No address on the flat filed rib; "Reilly" on the action. The seller speculated that the barrels had been rebored from a 12 bore rifle; The barrel is substantial and is stamped "12." The rib possibly was relaid at that time and the scroll guard trigger/pistol grip tang replaced.*14e

. . .-- SN 5991 – 1847-48?, a 17 bore SxS percussion rifle, serial numbered “5991” on the barrels. “991” is found on forend stock, hammers and ramrod. “Reilly, New Oxford Street, London” is engraved on the rib; “Reilly, London” on the side plates. The case has a post December 1847 Reilly label pasted over a Lang label from 7 Haymarket Street, from circa 1845-1848. If this serial number is part of the hypotheical “5500” JC series, then it may indicate that the series was continued for some reason into the late 1840’s and used along-side the new “7000” series. *14f

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This post has been split for academic reasons.. This post deals with 4 "outlier" serial numbers: They may have been rationalized. (Much of this was covered 5 years ago but with less understanding).

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
There are 4 "outlier" SN'S 2008, 3007, 3402, 3514: which analysis may have rationalized; they all appear to possibly have been part of known Reilly serial number chronologies. (And with the addition of 3402 and 3514 to the 1847-48's, this creates an anomaly related to the 3350 series that will require some analysis.)

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2008
This is "Wootang"'s gun.
. . .-- SN 2008 - c1840, a 14 bore SxS muzzle-loader shotgun with "Joseph Charles Reilly, New Oxford Street, London" on the rib and bore size stamped on the barrel. The address would date it between April 1847 to circa September 1857 when J.C. retired; The gun, however, looks to be early 1840's.*13b

This gun originally was tentatively dated to c1854 in the dating chart. It has been moved back to 1840, where this serial number should be, as part of the Reilly main-line serial numbers. The address discrepancy (using New Oxford Street) may be because its barrels were redone and re-engraved by Reilly after 1847. There is precedence for this - see SN 5512.

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3007
Reilly U-L pin-fire 3007; The SN per the chart should be from 1845 but with E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford Street, London on the rib. I had speculated that it actually might be "13007." However, it has Birmingham proofs on the barrel. It is possible this was an original percussion gun from 1845 updated to pin-fire by Reilly sometime after 315 opened in August 1858. (There is another Reilly percussion gun SN 10354 from 1857 which was converted to an U-L center-break gun in 1878 per documentation). It will be re classified as an 1845 gun.

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http://www.tennants.co.uk/Catalogue/Lots/225065.aspx
A 19th Century 16 Bore Double Barrel Pinfire Shotgun by E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford Street, London, the 73.5cm browned steel barrel signed on the rib, with Birmingham proof marks and numbered 3007, with signed foliate engraved back action, under-lever break, walnut stock with chequered grip and fore-end


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3402
This is a Terry Buffum gun:
..3402 - E.M. Reilly & Co. Oxford St., London & rue Scribe, Paris. .58 cal. SxS rifle; 4 grove twist. Hammer gun, muzzle loader. (E.M. Reilly label on the original case)

The gun was so odd as to SN and components that it has been ignored up to now. The address is post Feb 1868. But this gun per serial number should have been numbered originally in 1847 as part of the "3350" series. It may have been serviced, or re-engraved post 1868 when the label and address were added. 4 grove rifling in 1868 was not current nor were "scroll guard pistol grips." The Damascus barrel pattern is simple twist which is 1820-1850. The gun now is repositioned on the chart to 1847.

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3514
SN 3514. This is a 13 bore Shotgun SxS; muzzle loader, hammer gun with Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London, on the rib. It has an 1856-59 case label and a 13 bore stamp.

The gun was dated on the chart to c1856 only because of the label and called an "outlier." However, it looks like a much earlier gun. I'm inclined now to put it back to 1847-48 and conclude that the 1856 label was added when it was brought in for maintenance in the late 1850's (a look at the label does seem to confirm that it was changed). This would indicate that EM Reilly continued occasionally to use the "3350" series numbers after the jump to 8350 in 1847. I've moved it from 1856 back to 1848. (Note: the use of "502" rather than just "New Oxford Street" did not appear on other extant Reilly's until about 1853. But nothing is absolute about the gun industry.

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Chapter *32: August 1858: Opening of 315 Oxford-Street - New Label & Chapter *33: The Shooting Gallery at 315 Oxford Street have been changed courtesy of Stephen Nash. Steve noticed this 08 Dec 1855 advertisement in "The Field":

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315a Oxford Street is indeed the Reilly workshop which opened in August 1858 with a "50 yard" shooting gallery. Evidently Reilly with new partners (unknown) bought out Williams Squires and kept the galleries opened. The history has been modified to give Squires credit for creating the shooting galleries.

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Steve got this from the IGC database on William Squires: "In 1854 William Squires opened as a gun maker at 315a Oxford Street. Reportedly, between 1858 and 1860 he moved out of London to Croydon, Surrey, where he set up in business in Church Road, but this is unlikely because he was recorded in the 1861 census living at 6 Great Titchfield Street, Marylebone, with his wife, Katherina E (b.1829 in Rotherhithe) and Sarah A, Edith M (b.1853 in Stepney), Emma A (b.1855 in Marylebone), Mary C (b.1851 in Marylebone) and Amy H (b.1859 in Marylebone). He appears to have closed in 1863."

==========================================================================

Chapter *94: Charles Riggs era, August 1922-1950?: has been greatly changed with a lot more information on Charles Riggs and his activities.

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A Reilly percussion gun 18 bore SxS barrel set is being offered on Gunbroker which, if it is authentic, will present a new serial number problem for Reilly's from the late 1830's-1847.
https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/1009915336

The barrel has a SN 4188, which is outside of the current understanding of Reilly SN chronology. The seller claims the barrel has J.C. Reilly's name on it though this is unclear. No address looks to be on the barrel rib. And, the barrels were proofed in Birmingham, looks to be post 1855 (possibly reproofed at that time?), something rarely ever seen on Reilly's. "H&S" are stamped on both barrels and the "Damascus" pattern looks a pretty mess.

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The advertiser quoted word for word from the Reilly history - probably the version published by Diggory in 2019: I've sent the following request to him:

Sir, I am the author of the Reilly history you've quoted in your ad. It has been much updated and can be read on Doublegunshop.com. I am curious about this barrel set for historical purposes. Is there an address on the rib? (It should be 316 High Holborn). Is the name "Reilly" or "J.C. Reilly?" Better photos would be appreciated. The barrels have Birmingham proofs on them, something not usually seen on a Reilly made gun. Thanks. Gene Williams, McLean Virginia

After a week there has been no word back from the seller. Without further evidence one must assume that 4188 is not a Reilly SN and that the barrel set is post 1855.
Thanks to Stephen Howell for calling this to my attention:

There is a single barrel Reilly advertised on Holts - a .297/.250 side-lever rook rifle.
https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/as...+++713+&refno=++204441&saletype=

Holts says in the advertisement that the SN is "2943." Holts' own photos, however, shows a Reilly SN 35394 on the gun. It has "E.M. Reilly & Co., 295, Oxford Street, London" on the barrel; the chart originally dated this SN to early 1903:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

But there is a problem. Holts' already has published a Reilly SxS shotgun allegedly with SN 35394, a 12 bore without mention of an address on the rib and with very minimal photos, which was postulated to be the last gun built in Feb 1903 at 277 Oxford Street.
https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/as...++5608+&refno=++149905&saletype=
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Obviously there can't be two 35394's. So it's best to believe the eyes and put the rook rifle into this slot and not the SxS which only relies on Holts' advertising accuracy. This is going to require a slight redo of the chart again around the time of the changeover from 277 to 295 Oxford Street, Feb 1903 - May 1904.
-- 35394 (the rook rifle) now moves to May 1904.
-- 35386 (address on barrel not mentioned), a .410 top lever SxS, is now assumed to be the last extant Reilly gun made at 277 Oxford Street Feb 1903. It is owned by "Roger Hill" and was mentioned in one post but no other references.
-- Reilly "3"'s and "5"'s are very similar and have often been confused. So, the 12 bore, Side lock, non extractor SxS advertised by Holts as "35394," has been moved to the 35594 slot (with a question mark). (Holts has mis-advertised Reilly's before).

Holts started off referencing this site's work. About 4 years ago I wrote to them about a couple of misidentifications. They have since gone their own way on dating Reilly's and refuse to use the work at all, alone amongst the other auction houses, or even to answer any queries. The gun industry is filled up with egos and opinions and these can get personal and dogmatic in a hurry and evidence be damned.

Edit: Holt's has actually responded and changed their ad to incorporate the data - the date of the gun and the Reilly SN; but they unfortunately could provide nothing historical back on the 2020 SxS.
Part I of Gene's article has been published in the October The Vintage Gun Journal
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/a-new-history-of-e-m-reilly
Thanks Dr. Drew. Actually there are three articles in VGJ based on the Reilly research:

Reilly dating chart, September 2021:
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/dating-your-reilly-gun-or-rifle

Reilly History part I, August 2019:
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/a-new-history-of-e-m-reilly

Reilly History part II, September 2019
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/the-life-of-reilly

Diggory also has the text of the "Dating Reilly Labels" part of the research (p. 93, 94), which he may publish a bit at a time:

The Histories were edited somewhat by Diggory. It was the original pretty straight forward minimalist manuscript. This original text has been superseded by the 120 page version on P. 94 & 95 of the line which goes much more into detail, partly in response to challenges made to the original. The dating chart is updated on p. 95 of the line (or p. 57 for the complete extant gun list). The History and the Dating Chart are updated on this line when new guns come to light that compel a change .
A "Contents" section is added to the history beginning mid-page 94; a number of photos also have been posted. This extensive edit of the on-lime history is an effort to get around the BBS limit of 10 photos per post and to keep the now 220 page history to 5 BBS internet pages; thus the photo posts have combined lot of pictures to make it somewhat coherent - the print version flows more fluidly and more easily comprehensible:

Contents

Prologue . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7
Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9

I. Holborn Bars : 1814 -1835. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10
. . .1. Beginnings
. . .2. 1828: First Guns Made at 12 Middle Row, Holborn (Holborn Bars), London
. . .3. Reilly Business Model
. . .4. 1831: Reilly "Gun Maker"

II. 316 High Holborn: 1835 – 1847. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16
. . .5. August 1835: Move to 316 High Holborn-Street
. . .6. 1837: End of Serial Numbered Pistols
. . .7. August 1840: Company Name Changes to "Reilly; Gun Maker”
. . .8. 1840's: Air-guns

III. 502 New Oxford Street: 1847 - 1857. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .22
. . .9. March 1847: Move to 502 New Oxford-Street
. . .10. April-November 1847: Change in Trade Label
. . .11. 1847: Change in the Main-Line Numbering Chronology - 3350 Jumps to 8350
. . .12. 1846-1857: J.C. Reilly 7000 Series Numbering Chronology
. . .13. 1840-1856: Outlier J.C. Serial Numbered Guns
. . .14. Hypothetical J.C. "5500" Serial Number Series Early/mid 1840's
. . .15. December 1847 - 1856: New Label for 502 New Oxford-Street
. . .16. Reilly in the early 1850's: Company Organization
. . .17. 1851 - late 1880's: Reilly 300 Yard Outdoor Shooting Range
. . .18. 1851: Crystal Palace Exposition – the Lefaucheaux Revelation
. . .19. Reilly in the early 1850's: Custom Made Guns and Munitions
. . .20. 1855: Reilly Numbering Bore Sizes Before the 1855 Proof Law
. . .21. 1855: Paris Exposition Universelle
. . .22. September 1857: J.C. Reilly Retires; January 1864 He Passed Away

IV: Break Action Guns in UK: 1854 – 1860. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36
. . .23. 1852-1856: Break Action, Pin-Fire Guns in UK., PART 1, Hodges & Lang
. . .24. 1852-1856: Break Action, Pin-Fire Guns in UK., PART 2, Reilly & Blanch
. . .25. 1856: Reilly Begins Building Break Action Pin-Fire Guns
. . .26. Mid-1856: Trade/Case Label Changes
. . .27. 1856-1858: Reilly Extant Break Action Pin-Fire Guns
. . .28. 1858-1860: Reilly Develops and Trials Break Action Pin-Fire Guns
. . .29. Observation re "Retailer" vs "Gunmaker" from an Analysis of Extant 1856-58 Reilly Pin-fires

V: Reilly Supports Rifle Innovation: 1854 – 1860. . . . . . . . . . . . .49
. . .30. 1853-1860: Reilly Building Innovative Military Grade Muzzle Loading Rifles
. . . . . . . .1. 1853 Enfield- Rifle-Musket
. . . . . . . .2. General Jacob’s Rifle
. . . . . . . .3. English Schuetzen Percussion Target Rifle
. . .31. 1855-1860: Other Breech-loader Rifles and New Innovations by Reilly
. . . . . . . .1. Terry Patent breech loaders
. . . . . . . .2. Prince Patent Breech Loader
. . . . . . . .3. Westley-Richards “Monkey Tail” Breech Loader. – a Non-event

VI: Reilly 1858 – 1862. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .56
. . .32. August 1858: Opening of 315 Oxford-Street - New Label
. . .33. The Shooting Gallery at 315 Oxford Street
. . .34. August 1858 - April 1861: Four Changes in the Company Name
. . . . . . . .1. “Reilly & Co., Gun Makers” - August 1858 - March 1859
. . . . . . . .2. “E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Makers” - March 1859 – August 1860
. . . . . . . . . . . -- NEW LABEL: 502 New Oxford St
. . . . . . . . . . . -- NEW LABEL: 315 Oxford Street
. . . . . . . .3. “E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturer” (singular) - August 1860 – April 1861
. . . . . . . .4. “E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturers" (plural)” - April 1861
. . . . . . . . . . . -- NEW LABEL
.. . . . . . . . . . .-- PRESENTATION LABEL
. . .35. 1859–1900: Reilly Selling to Yeomanry Militia & Gun Clubs at Wholesale Prices
. . .36. 1860-1861: Reilly’s In-House Guns; Using Others’ Patents; Royalty Payments; Making Guns Under License

VII. Characteristics of Reilly guns and products. . . . . . . . . . . . . 63
. . .37. Comments on Reilly Stocks
. . . . . . . .1. French Walnut Stocks:
. . . . . . . .2. In-House Stock Maker
. . . . . . . .3. Straight English stocks for Shotguns Except Big-bore Fowlers
. . . . . . . .4. Pistol Grip for Rifles
. . .38. 1828-1900: Reilly Engraving
. . . . . . . .1. 1820’s-1830’s: Simple “Vine and Scroll”
. . . . . . . .2. 1840’s-1850’s: “Large Scroll” or “English Scroll”
. . . . . . . .3. 1850’s-1860’s: More complex “English Scroll”
. . . . . . . .4. 1860’s” Increasingly Delicate and Intricate “Rose and Scroll”
. . . . . . . .5. 1870’s-1890’s: Tight “Rose and Scroll”
. . . . . . . .6. Wildlife Scenes
. . .39. 1828-1900; Reilly Barrels
. . . . . . . .1. London proofed
. . . . . . . .2. Bored and Finished by Reilly, 1836-47
. . . . . . . .3. Barrel Lengths
. . . . . . . .4. Damascus Patterns
. . . . . . . .5. Barrel Blanks
. . . . . . . .6. Initials on Barrels, 1870’s
. . . . . . . .7. Steel Barrels, 1882
. . .40. Non-Serial Numbered Reilly’s; Reilly Engraving and Marketing Others' Guns
. . .41. Reilly and Pistols
. . .42. Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition
. . .43. Early 1860’s: Reilly and Cutlery, Swords, Bayonets
. . .44. Reilly Accessories

VIII. 1860 – 1867 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .81
. . .45. 1850’s-1895: Reilly Staff; Quality Young Employees
. . .46. 1861: Reilly Manufacturing and Sales
. . .47. 1862: Reilly and the 1862 London Exposition
. . .48. 1863: Attempts to Curry Favor with the British Royal Family
. . .57. 1863-1865: Reilly’s Sporting Gun Business
. . .58. 1863-1873: Pin-Fire vs Center Fire
. . .59. 1866: Reilly and Purdey Kerfuffle

IX: Reilly, Arsenal and the British Army. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .93
. . .49. 1863-1872: Attempts to Win a Military Contract; Reilly Builds Military Rifles
. . .50. 1863-1868: Reilly and the Green Brothers Patent Breech Loader - Sole Manufacturer
. . .51. 1866-1870’s: Reilly Builds (Civilian) Snider-Enfields
. . .52. 1868-1870: Reilly-Comblain Breech Loaders (No Reilly SN) - Sole Manufacturer
. . .53. 1871-1890: Reilly Builds Sporting Martini-Henry Rifles (NSN)
. . .54. 1872-1912: Reilly Sells Other Military Rifles; Swinburn, Gibbs, Soper, Lee-Speed
. . .55. 1869: Explosive Bullets:
. . .56. 1856-1871: An End to Reilly's Arsenal Contract Dreams

X. Reilly - 1868 – 1880; Paris and Attempts to Expand . . . . . . . . . .109
. . .60. 1867-1870, Paris-1: Reilly Takes on Paris, Again; Gun-Maker for Napoleon III
. . .61. February 1868-1870, Paris-2: Reilly Opens 2 rue Scribe, Paris as “E.M. Reilly & Cie”
. . .62. 1868-1897 – Paris-3: New Label
. . .63. 1870 - Paris-4: Fall of Napoleon III; Reilly Prosecuted; Pro-French proclivities
. . .64. 1869-1876: Reilly and the American Market
. . .65. 1868-1876: New Labels and Descriptions
. . .66. 1875-1880: Choke Boring and New Proof Marks
. . .67. 1875-1880: Reilly Paying Royalties for Patent Uses
. . .68. 1878-1880: Paris Exposition; Situation of the Company

XI: Reilly – 1880’s. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .127
. . .69. Early 1880's: Reilly Expansion; 1881 Census; 1000 guns a year
. . .70. 1880: Reilly and the Anson & Deeley Boxlock
. . .71. 1882: Selling Off The Rack
. . .72. Nov 1881: Oxford Street Re-numbered; Change in Labels
. . .73. 1881: Spanish and Dutch Royal Connection
. . .74. 1878-81: Two outlier Trade Labels
. . .75. 1869-1890: Reilly and Pigeon Guns
. . .76. 1882: Reilly and Steel Barrels
. . .77. 1853-1882: Reilly Endorsed by Prominent Explorers and Hunters
. . .78. 1882-1885: International Expositions
. . .79. 1884-1885: Reilly Outlier Label
. . .80. July 1885: Closure of the Paris Branch
. . .81. 1885-1886: Satellite Paris Address at 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honoré
. . .82. July 1885: Change in Reilly Labels
. . .83. Reilly in the Late 1880's

XII. Death of EM Reilly; Decline and Fall 1890-1918. . . . . . . . . . .156
. . .84. 1890: Death of E.M. Reilly and Aftermath
. . .85. Characterizing the Reilly's
. . .86. Mid-1890's: Reilly’s Decline
. . .87. May 1897: Closure of 16, New Oxford Street
. . .88. 1890-1897: Label and Presentation Case Changes
. . .89. 1899: Death of Mary Ann Reilly; Bert Takes Over
. . .90. 1903-1904: Move to 295 Oxford-Street; Trade Label Update
. . .91. 1904-1912: Reilly Reduced to Finishing Guns Bought in the White?
. . .92. June 1912: Bankruptcy
. . .93. 1912-1918: 13 High Street, Marylebone

XIII. Charles Riggs Era; 1922 – 1950. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .173
. . .94. August 1922-circa 1950: Charles Riggs Era

Conclusion. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180
. . .95. Conclusion

Addendum . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 181
. . .A. Serial Number Dating Chart
. . .B. Explanation of Methodolgy
. . . . . .1) Process
. . . . . .2) Chronological Date Markers
. . . . . .3) SN Guns Associated with Date Markers
. . . . . .4) Sanity Check guns
. . . . . .5) UK Gun Patent Use Numbers Found on Reilly’s
. . .C. Dating Reference Chart for Reilly Trade Labels
After looking for photographs for some time and using map studies, I think I have at least the outline of 502 (16) New Oxford Street identified. It is indeed a substantial building that must have had 8,000 sq. feet of floor space.

That was the quintessential London "factory," perhaps the largest of its kind at the time. Donald Dallas used to walk past the building before it was rebuilt and I've asked him to confirm the preliminary results about its location. Surely someone has tourist photos of that block from the 1960's. (Edit: Donald Dallas has confirmed that this was indeed the area of Reilly's shop at 502 (16) New Oxford Street).

This has been posted on the history:

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Today:

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A gentleman in Australia has just forwarded information on this magnificent 1850's short-forend sporterized .577 Reilly Enfield rifle converted to a Snider (the contact made courtesy of Diggory). The gun is SN 10377 and was made in summer 1857 shortly before JC Reilly retired and before the opening of 315 Oxford Street. It has the percussion patch box with game engraving, shortened forend, engraving and Damascus barrel of a classic high-end Reilly sporting Enfield of that time. The engraving for that era is particularly well done.

But this one is special. It had both a stalking safety and a match set trigger. And the locks were made by Joseph Brazier. This was clearly a very high-grade Reilly from 1857. (This is now the first identified Reilly using Brazier locks or actions).

It was transformed by Reilly after 1868 into a Snider, making it the second oldest Reilly so far found (10021 being the oldest). The address on the receiver, "EM Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris" (post Feb 1868), was added after the gun was converted (a couple of other similar examples exist). However, on the side plates the name is just "Reilly, London " - classic mid 1850's.

Per the Reilly history Reilly developed a "short stock" for the Enfield which allowed it to be carried in a "normal" sized case. Most extant Reilly Enfields from the mid 1850's with the short sporterized stock, had straight stocks with a trigger guard which aped a pistol grip stock. This rifle has a pistol grip stock. This is so unusual for the 1850's that one speculates it was restocked when converted.

After 1866 Arsenal transformed hundreds of thousands of Enfields into Sniders for the Army using these "screw-in" actions. They only modified Enfields made 1859 or later. When they ran out of guns to convert they began making new ones with steel barrels (See the Reilly history chapter 51.)

The sporting gun world obviously was another story and 10377 with its exquisite barrels (assume they are Damascus - no good photos) and engravings was deemed worth changing by its owner. Reilly advertised his ability to do this work after 1866 (see the Reilly History, chap. 51).

The owner has not checked the proofs - he doesn't want to damage the screw threads - but no doubt they will be London proof marks. Note the "Snider's Patent" Arrow proof on the top of the action - endorsement or maybe patent paid to Arsenal for the Snider action (added to the original Brazier lock).

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Gene,

The arrow through S is not a War Department Broad Arrow but Snider’s Trade Mark. Civilian not military.

Very interesting rifle.
Thank you Para. Question. Jacob Snider died penniless before receiving a farthing of compensation for his invention. So who controlled the Trade Mark? Were there royalties paid for use of the action (there are no patent use #'s)? To whom? Any ideas where one might look for answers?

(There are similar questions about the Martini-Henry which have never been adequately answered).
and again thanks - that helps.
Gene Williams

I think I just answered my own question . . .no patent use numbers means no one controlled the patent and only the legal obligations of recording the use of a registered patent exist.

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Since map studies are inherently interesting, I am convinced that this is a period photo of 316 High Holborn, JC Reilly's workshop/factory from August 1835 to March 1847 (which included an indoor shooting range).

See the sunlight corridor shining like an arrow down the Southhampton Building alley and the location of Henekey's Wine Shop.

That was a large building. The Reilly's did live on the top floor per the 1841 census. This has been posted to the history and now completes the photographs of the Reilly factories/workshops and shops - at least in outline form.

(Note the dotted line on the map which shows the old "Holborn Bars" tax station, the former location of Reilly from 1814 to 1835. The building was torn down about 1868).

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In Chapter IV, 23, - Origin of the UK center break gun - Hodges and Lang: the following has been added and Stephan has done ground breaking research:

"This is not a detailed recounting of how Lefaucheaux’s break-action pin-fire breech-loader conquered the UK and changed gun history. However, the facts must be reviewed in brief so that Reilly’s part in it can be understood. (This is according to widely accepted gun-history legend; see below re Stephen Nash's rewriting of this narrative)."
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**Note: Stephen Nash, a pin-fire expert, has published an excellent and erudite examination of the British adaption of the French breech-loading concept. He has postulated credibly, based on analysis of existing guns and gun sketches, that Hodges and Lang adopted elements of Beringer's center break concepts in their gun, vice those of Lefaucheaux.
*23m
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/lever-over-guard-origins
Reilly's use of Whitworth steel barrels has been well documented in the History Chapter XI, 76 - first advertisements (Jan 82), first guns (Dec 81), grain sheaf trademark, etc. But this gun continues to haunt. If it is steel. . .Reilly was light years ahead of the gun industry. Added to the history:

Text:

There is an 1876 Reilly SxS rifle that appears to have steel barrels, but may be blued Damascus, the advertisement gun description being minimal; If these are in fact original steel barrels they pre-date Purdey's use of Whitworth steel by 4 years:

. . . . .SN 19953 (1876): - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 500 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L hammer gun, steel barrels. Round back-action lock. 28”*76c

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Added title page to Reilly history on p.94 (Still haven't gotten the hang of Yahoo editing software - New Year's resolution to take a course):
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Bedfordshire Archives has sent the inventory of JC Reilly's home upon his death. Here-in lies an enigma.
-- Bedfordshire death certificate for JC Reilly is for 11 January 1864. See below.
-- However, the contents of the farm were sold at auction on 23 April 1866 and the list of goods includes two guns SN 13921 and 13927, both 12 bore SxS Jones U-L shotguns, which weren't numbered until late 1865. The auction seems to imply that JC had died in March-April 1866.

Did JC manage to pass away twice?

I'm attaching the death certificate and the home inventory of the guns only. 5 guns are serial numbered and have been added to the list on p.57. EM Reilly inherited the farm. Perhaps he or a tenant used it then disposed of it in April 1866?

Interesting to see that water beds existed in the 1860's:

JC Reilly Death Certificate:
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EM Really inherited the farm:
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April 1866 inventory of the farm:
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Why keep records? History. Diggory sent information about the Reilly Big-Bore SxS rifle which has come to light in Ireland. It is SN'd 22432 probably numbered in very late 1880 or very early 1881. It is a .577 SxS Jones Under-Lever Rifle with what appears to be back-action locks.

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There is an inscription on the barrel flats - presumably some Celtic runes followed by "RM" - probably the owner.

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The "5288" on the under rib probably is a Birmingham barrel maker number. I can’t tell if these are Steel barrels or blued damascus – possibly the latter since Reilly was not advertising Whitworth steel until late 1881. There looks to be a faint 22xxx on the barrels which would have been the stamped serial number. Perhaps the original barrels were blued at some point.

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The address on the rib is 502 New Oxford Street. It does not match the case label which is for 277 Oxford Street in a format not seen (Gun and Rifle Makers on leather) until the 1890's.

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There is a problem: a gun with the same description and SN 22432 was sold 10 years ago at Holts:
https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/fullcatalogue.asp?salelot=A1214++++914+&refno=+++76477

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At that time the Holt's gun was housed in a case with a label with the address 16, New Oxford Street and 29 rue du Faubourg, St. Honore, Paris (1885-1886).

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That case had the name of George Sackville Sinclair Wemyss on it . He died in Scotland in 1882. Six years ago we speculated that the case was not original to the gun or that it had been returned to Reilly for servicing and a new label added (and it does appear that that label was indeed a replacement of some sort.

Possible solutions to the problem:

1) There are two Reilly 22432's (unlikely)

2)This gun in Ireland is the same as the Holt's gun but the case and label has been changed.

The case though very similar seem to have slight differences.
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The stocks look similar (photos are not good)
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The sights on the guns look slightly different though it is hard to tell from the quality of the photos.
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3) or once again Holt's got mixed up by the similarities between Reilly's "3"'s and "5"'s and the "Wemyss" cased gun was in fact "22452” not “22432." Holt's did not publish photos of the SN or mention the inscription/initials which are on the barrel flats of the Irish gun, something they usually would done (unless Holt's was trying to use the Wemyss name on the case to sell the gun).

Diggory has been asked to try to find out more about the Irish gun. Personally I think they are the same gun.
Same gun and case with a changed label for my money. The difference in picture quality covers the possible detail discrepancies I`d think.
UK Archives forwarded copies of the 25 November 1911 incorporation of EM Reilly & Co. into a Limited Liability company and the bankruptcy documents from June 8, 1912. It was hoped that these documents would include an inventory of Reilly properties and assets at the time. Instead there is nothing but legalese.

However, three historical bits can be discerned from them:

1) Herbert Reilly in 1911 had no partners in the business. When the company became Ltd., George Watkinson Roberts, accountant and bankruptcy lawyer, became a partner. It was evident that by autumn 1911 Herbert Reilly knew bankruptcy was coming and positioned the company to protect his private assets.

2) When bankruptcy was declared all the assets went to Roberts to dispose of. This is probably why Reilly made a great effort to sell off all his remaining guns in 1911. In the serial number chart as currently configured some 60+ guns were numbered and sold in 1911 - 4 times the number sold in 1910.

3) IGC history (which was not a bad original effort before the internet - and which stated Reilly made his own guns) commented that Reilly might have leased and moved to 13 High Street, Marylebone fall 1911 before the incorporation of EM Reilly & C0.. These documents mention nothing of this and it is evident Reilly remained at 295 Oxford Street until bankruptcy. 295 was leased to a hat maker in autumn 1912.
(It is possible that Reilly leased the Marylebone building before declaring bankruptcy and moved some of his machinery there; creditors would have been left essentially with an empty building in such a case. So far no way to investigate this possibility has been found).

Edit: I've written Archives asking if there is anyway to find out what was sold out of 295 Oxford Street to satisfy the creditors - assuming the G. Watkinson Roberts would have handled this.

Here are a couple of the documents for the record:

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