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Posted By: ed good TRASHED THREAD #502 - 04/12/16 02:06 AM
seems like hans down, the browning bss with 30" barrels is a forum favorite...

any others worthy of mention...

last i herd, florida sc champ was shooting a 1900 vintage parker with barrels sleeved and regulated by famed nh gunsmith ed lander...
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 03:11 AM
Lots of choices: Winchester 21 & 23, Kemen, SKB 385 & 485 plus new batch from Turkye, AyA 56, Arrieta 600, ..... Even Merkel made heavier one with choke tubes for sport shooting. I would say the best value would be Sears Roebuck 100 made by Aguirre & Arranzabal.
The best bang for buck would be ca. 1980 "verticallelas" from Brescia by Perazzi. The ones with fixed trigger coil springs and no rib between barrels are true bargains. I have seen one in excellent condition w/o original plastic hard care and accessories for about $500 more than typical BSS 12 ga Sporter in same condition. The Italian gun has superior trigger, barrels, choke tubes, Boss-type barrel/receiver locking system that will last hundreds of thousands rounds.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 03:19 AM
Originally Posted By: ed good
. last i herd, florida sc champ was shooting a 1900 vintage parker with barrels sleeved and regulated by famed nh gunsmith ed lander...


Did he torch it, too, with those fabulous frog eye colors?

SRH
Posted By: keith Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 03:47 AM
Originally Posted By: ed good
any others worthy of mention...


Glad you asked Ed. Here's a few things you said here that are worthy of mention:

Originally Posted By: ed good
as for the gun control issue...we are the only country in the world that seems to tolerate mass murder, in the name of an individual right...its about time that we as a society realize that we are over gunned with too many super dangerous weapons in the hands of too many super dangerous people... it is long past time to do as the rest of the civilized world has done and simply, disarm...


Originally Posted By: ed good
if society, via our law makers, deem it necessary to restrict or prohibit our possession of certain classes of arms, then every good citizen should obey the law for the good of the majority.

and if some here wish to discuss further restriction and prohibition of certain classes of arms here, then why not?


Originally Posted By: ed good
http://news.yahoo.com/celebrities-demand-removal-confederate-symbol-mississippi-flag-225831525.html

if mississippians can have a dialog regarding restriction of the display of "the flag", then why cant we have a dialog here regarding the restriction of semi auto handguns?


Originally Posted By: ed good
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) is the largest animal rights organization in the world, with more than 3 million members and supporters.

PETA focuses its attention on the four areas in which the largest numbers of animals suffer the most intensely for the longest periods of time: on factory farms, in the clothing trade, in laboratories, and in the entertainment industry. We also work on a variety of other issues, including the cruel killing of beavers, birds, and other “pests” as well as cruelty to domesticated animals.

PETA works through public education, cruelty investigations, research, animal rescue, legislation, special events, celebrity involvement, and protest campaigns.


Read more: http://www.peta.org/about-peta/#ixzz2nGfdrBVK


don't sound so bad to me? what do you think?


Originally Posted By: ed good
and here is what Wikipedia has to say about peta:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PETA

again, whats the problem some have with this organization?


Originally Posted By: ed good
less firepower would result in less deaths from too much firepower in the hands of too many people...

it aint about bannin guns and it certainly aint bout bannin cars...

uh, its about firepower...

an ah will ax duh question once again:

"have we the people exceeded our carrying capacity for firepower?"


Originally Posted By: ed good
recognize that there are too many guns in too many hands...reduce those numbers and gun related violence will also be reduced...it is as simple as that...too much of anything is not good.


Originally Posted By: King Brown
Democracies make choices. Americans accept mass murder to defend an individual right to bear arms in the name of personal freedom.


Oops, sorry... that last one was a quote from your buddy King. But you did agree with him, so I think it will be OK with you.

Some people still say there are no anti-gun Trolls here.

Posted By: L. Brown Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 11:40 AM
Where's "Misfires" when we need it?

Re sxs for Sporting Clays, I do prefer 30" barrels, but I don't prefer anything nearly as heavy as a BSS. Had my hands on a very nice customized Parker a few years back. Long barrels, choke tubes, restocked, very nice job. Shot it in a skeet league and at SC. I've since discovered that while SOME additional weight works well for me in a target gun, a lot of additional weight--in comparison to "game guns"--does not. I'm currently working with a nice Webley & Scott, 30". It only weighs 6 1/2, but balances about an inch in front of the hinge pin. I know that's too light for most people for a target gun, and I've played with a few others in the 7# range, which I think is about as heavy as I want to go.

Another candidate that doesn't break the bank would be one of the Ithaca SKB's with 30" barrels. Not a lot of them out there. Most of the ones I've seen have 3" chambers (the Ithaca SKB 12ga sxs were usually 2 3/4") with a factory recoil pad. I think the original idea was for waterfowl back when you could still shoot lead, possibly doubling as a sxs trap gun. That was before SC caught hold in this country.
Posted By: Saskbooknut Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 11:54 AM
I am surprised that no one has suggested a Beretta 409 or 410 in 12 gauge. They are a little heavy for an upland gun, but robust and reliable.
I would say they have lots of potential for a good SxS target gun at a reasonable price.
Posted By: LeverHead Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 12:08 PM
Perazzi DC12 would have to be on the list, but she's about $15k.
Posted By: Saskbooknut Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 12:39 PM
Wow, there is a step up in price - from a sub-$2K BSS to a Perazzi.
Just to keep it real, from a gentleman of modest means perspective, I am going to shoot an AyA model 106 16 gauge this Spring. I don't shoot SC competitively, only recreationally, with one or two friends.
My Model 106 is a slender Euro gun, non-catalogued 680 mm barrels (26.6 inches), 6 pounds 6 ounces with extractors.
I believe this is the same model of gun that Sears offered in the US, albeit in more American style.
I think I will not have a problem with recoil, firing up to 100 one ounce, 2 3/4 dram, 16 gauge cartridges in a day.
Posted By: Tim Wolf Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 01:00 PM
Poli Sporting is another option. Not sure if one can order a new one these days but there are some used ones around. Have a least 6 or 8 thousand rounds thru my 32 inch 20 ga. Only problem has been one ejector spring which Coles repaired reasonable with quick turn around. A friend has a 12 gauge which is his favorite shotgun, O/U or SxS. He has many times the rounds thru his as mine. Has had a few problems but all fairly easily repaired.
Posted By: Crowley Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 01:08 PM
Well posted Keith.

As for Ed Good, I remind you that the founding fathers wanted the people armed because they and the people were afraid of the GOVERNMENT!

Nothing has changed.
danc
Posted By: tudurgs Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 01:50 PM
My GH Parker - Restocked, #2 frame, 32'barrels choked I/C Mod
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 02:16 PM
Whats the matter, Ed? Did the auction for the big BSS you had on gunbroker expire, and you are attempting to generate free interest, here, before relisting it, there? One of the guys here just got one, did you figure you could find another mark, I mean, customer, by starting a new post, on the same topic?


Best,
Ted
Posted By: ed good Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 02:27 PM
weird, malcontents seem to delight in trashing this thread...

an speakin uv turkish made guns, how do their sxs's hold up as target guns?
Posted By: keith Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 02:58 PM
Originally Posted By: ed good
weird, malcontents seem to delight in trashing this thread...


Weird anti-gun Trolls seem to delight in trashing the 2nd Amendment, the NRA, and the Gun Rights of law abiding U.S. citizens.

Originally Posted By: ed good
next question:

does the second amendment prohibit state and local governments from regulating the keeping of arms by the people?

i believe it does not...what say you?


Originally Posted By: ed good
some view the current version of a well regulated militia as your local unarmed volunteer fire department...augmented by your local armed town police force.

what used to be militia is now your state's national guard, which is under the command of your state's governor... and your state guard is subject to call up and command of the president of the united states...


Originally Posted By: ed good
guess no body here has the balls to answer my question:


disarm...seems to work for the rest of the civilized world...

why not us?


This little exchange is for King's little bro, Larry Brown. It took place right here in the main Double Gun forum. No shortage of "Do as I say... not as I do" in this place:

Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Originally Posted By: ed good
ah yes...the old " he aint here no mo, he dead", dodge...


Pretty sure, in this case, the individual in question really was dead. We all die, Ed . . . although there's a special corner of hell reserved for shady gun dealers.


I do hope there's a special place in hell for hypocrites too.
Posted By: tudurgs Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 03:20 PM
STOP IT!!!!
Posted By: keith Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 03:31 PM
Did you ever use a semi-auto for sporting clays tudurgs? Ed Good doesn't think we should have any semi-automatics.

Originally Posted By: ed good
too many people in this country possess too many semi automatic firearms...including the police.

elementary statistical theory and the law of probability indicates that the only meaningful solution to the growing number of misuses of that class of firearms is to reduce the number of semi automatic firearms now in wide distribution nationwide.

reducing the amount of anything will reduce its misuse.
Post # 400299

Now for a brief commercial message from Ed Good:

Posted By: ithaca1 Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 03:51 PM
I usually stay on the skeet field but would like to try SC. My 28" SKB sxs has been choked ic/mod. What are the best chokes for SC?
Posted By: mike campbell Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 05:17 PM
I've enjoyed it here for most of the last 13 years. I may come back when these clowns are gone. Carry on.
Posted By: tudurgs Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 05:21 PM
Keith - Me personally? No. My grandson used to shoot a semi-auto. He's a member of the Hillsdale college National Championship shooting team
Posted By: David Williamson Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 05:35 PM
Most all of my shotguns are sxs. I have one hammer gun, and L.C. Smith that I fit 3 extra barrels. The one set is from a Grade 1 "elsie" 30" and I thought was the original length, but a records check stated they were originally 32". These barrels have .009 constriction and for sporting clays they shoot very nice. I only shoot 3/4 oz in 12 ga. and it is impressive to see how far it will reach out there.
A set of 32" with .041 and .042 constriction is worthless on sporting clays for me, but shooting trap it is very nice. Again the same 3/4 oz loads.

I had read one time that most of the great shooters preferred full choke guns because they knew what to do and wanted the most pattern in that small circle.
Posted By: PALUNC Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 09:54 PM
I'm not a fan of RBL's but Gunbroker has a nice 30" 12 bore with lots of choke tubes and a leather covered pad for 3k.
GB 552562562
Also a semi local gunshop here in NC has a very nice Poli boxlock sporter, looks new, with right hand palm swell and beavertail forearm for under $2500.
Posted By: Judge Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/12/16 10:48 PM
Regarding SC I am going to try a Meriden hammer gun. PS I agree with Turdogs and it is a shame (not a surprise) that Campbell is leaving. The Brits are probably next and this forum will be toast.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/13/16 11:05 AM
I hope to heck Mike isn't really leaving. But way past time to load up the car and pack the clowns off to the circus.
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/13/16 03:01 PM
Why would anyone feel the need to announce they are leaving? Why would anyone feel the need to pronounce the forum "toast"? People have come and gone since the beginning.
It is a fringe site (double guns) in an area of interest (shooting) that is beginning to become fringe. There are never more than 50 or so members looking about.
If you have something compelling to add or impart to a discussion, feel free. Or, not. Your choice. What goes on here, now, is nothing compared to what the board was like back in the day. None of us own it, we just participate.
Ed has always been nothing more than a huckster, and the things he has posted do nothing to advance any of our interests in a vibrant and healthy second amendment, or the shooting sports. Nothing. Keith calls him out on it. I can choose to read it, or, not, and you can, too. I doubt any lines would form, here, to buy one of Ed's burned guns, and that in itself demonstrates the value of this site. Like it, or not.
So, if it suits you, leave. We will more than likely miss your input, but, the forum is not toast.


Best,
Ted
Posted By: ed good Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/13/16 03:30 PM
gee ted, sorry for you that you harbor such ill will agin me and others here...life is really to short to waste time dwelling on such negativity...

and it could be helpful for you to practice what you preach:

such as, "If you have something compelling to add or impart to a discussion, feel free."

so, to the point, do you have something compelling to add to this discussion of sxs sportin clays guns? if not, then perhaps it is you who should go away, or not?
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/13/16 04:04 PM
Not really any "others", if you will, Ed.

Just you. And what you have done to some otherwise fine double guns.

Compelling, no?


Best,
Ted
Posted By: gold40 Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/13/16 04:14 PM
I sometime shoot Sporting Clays with my Dickinson SxS 12 ga.(from Cabela's). I use 1 ounce reloads. The gun is a bit light for 100 rounds of Sporting Clays. But it is good practice in the early fall for bird season.

More often (all summer) I shoot my Beretta A-400 with the built in Kick-Off recoil reducer on SC's.

On most of the local St. Louis SC courses, one can use IC for most/all stations.

gold40
Posted By: mtwoodson Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/13/16 08:35 PM
I shoot some SC with two 16 ga SxSs. The first is the top end of a pre-war blitz action Merkel drilling and the second is a plain old early 50's Simson. I still shoot a little better with my Red Labels, but I'm getting there.
Posted By: justin Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/13/16 09:08 PM
As far as sc is concerned I shoot whichever gun I feel like shooting. What the hell does it matter. You should be enjoying yourself.
As for the unjustified amount of crap posted on this thread,I wish you guys would would grow the [censored] up and learn when to keep your mouths shut.
Posted By: ed good Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/13/16 09:52 PM
justen, i too shoot what i feel like that day...always looking for the gun that "some how" makes me a better shooter...

one of the joys of being a hobby gun dealer is the opportunity to test fire different guns before shipment to new owners...

trouble is, some times i test fire them before sale...often i fall in love and wind up squirreling one away...then when the closet is full, its time to move erm on...cept for the few i really shoot well...those ones keep getting shoved further and further back into a deep dark corner...one of these days i gotta get in there with a flash light and see what i got...but not yet...

anyway, just a reminder, the purpose of this thread is to identify sxs's besides the browning bss, that have a known record for reliability on the competitive target range...for example, parker, smith and ithaca all made trap and skeet grade guns...any experiences any of you wish to share re these old target specific guns?

and what about the win 21? do they hold up under stress?
Posted By: keith Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 07:55 AM
Originally Posted By: justin
As for the unjustified amount of crap posted on this thread,I wish you guys would would grow the [censored] up and learn when to keep your mouths shut.


In my opinion justin, the real crap here is Ed's anti-gun rhetoric. But since he posted all of this on this website, I can't imagine that he'd be upset to have me replay it for everyone. Hell, he even said ex-NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg would make a great President. As per your request, I kept my mouth shut as I typed this post. Maybe you and Larry agree with Ed and that's why you're so upset??? Larry's older brother King would certainly disapprove of you using vulgarities here by inserting the F word in your comment... unless you are an anti-gun Liberal. Then it's OK.



Originally Posted By: ed good
and for those who argue there should be no restriction or prohibition of any class of arms, anywhere...well that is a rather selfish, self focused and unrealistic view, in my opinion....

....is a weak attempt at demagoguery.


Originally Posted By: ed good
craig: its about too many guns that can put out too many bullets in too short a time...we are over gunned and are now paying the price.
Post # 400310

Originally Posted By: ed good
first we need to agree on the goal of restricting certain classes of firearms.

mine is to reduce the misuse of firearms.

seems like the most prevalent misuses of firearms involves semi automatic hand guns? do you agree?


Originally Posted By: ed good
are we havin fun yet?


Yes Ed, I'm having fun. Thanks for asking! I hear Win. Mod 21's hold up very well under stress. How about you?

Posted By: L. Brown Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 11:34 AM
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

Ed has always been nothing more than a huckster, and the things he has posted do nothing to advance any of our interests in a vibrant and healthy second amendment, or the shooting sports. Nothing. Keith calls him out on it.


Ted, the point is that THIS TOPIC has nothing to do with the Second Amendment and what anyone sees as anyone else's support, or lack thereof, for the 2A. SxS for sporting clays is certainly a topic that can generate a decent discussion, as it has here. If someone wants to start a topic on the 2A and make reference to views expressed by others here, all fine and dandy. But, if nothing else, it's RUDE to veer off a very legitimate discussion and launch an attack on someone else about a totally different subject.

I'd also hasten to point out that threads about the 2A and who supports it or who does not always leave me a bit cold, mainly because the 500 pound gorilla in the room never gets mentioned. It's like NRA membership gives you an automatic pass on being a supporter of the 2A. Well, here's another way to look at it: If you never served in the military, then you never put any real TEETH behind your support of the 2A. You never said "Hey, Uncle Sam, here I am! I'm ready to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. And I'm signing a blank check to you. As long as I wear the uniform, you can send me wherever you want, whenever you want." That, IMO, is the TRUE commitment to the Second Amendment. And the rest of the Constitution.

Now returning to the subject at hand, which is sxs sporting clays guns . . . I hope.
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 01:08 PM
"If you never served in the military...rest of the Constitution."

C'mon, Larry. You don't really believe that, do you?

"...I hope."

What's that old saying...poop in one hand...? By your own definition your post was rude. Not that I care or think it was.



_______________________
1 year, 9 months, 15 days. (no that's not the time left on my prison sentence)
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 02:21 PM
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=545420186

My first point is that a discussion with Ed on this board isn't about anything other than Ed trying to get a mark, I mean, a customer, to pony up for his "wares".

The auction, above, is a great example of Ed trying to get top buck for a beat up BSS with a glued up stock head. Of course, Ed has the opinion that the stock is stronger than new, and because of his glue job, he should get MORE than a gun not so affected, or some such nonsense, but, there were no marks, oops, I mean customers, that day. I'll bet he still has it.

He could list it, here, for a realistic price, and slide our man Dave a ten spot. Or just chat it up on the forum, and re-list it.

Hmm. Wonder what he is going to do?

Larry do you know what it means when the kids refer to someone as a "tool"? It is along the lines of a drug counselor referring to someone as an "enabler". But, without the warm fuzzy, caring stuff attached.

We need to quit being tools, Larry.

If you think Ed1 cares in the least about your opinion of a SXS, without your cash going to him, in exchange for one, I think you are wrong.


Best,
Ted
Posted By: John Roberts Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 02:29 PM
Ted's got Ed pegged. You should pay heed, Larry.
JR
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 02:38 PM
Thanks for the link Ted.
Ed: Did Ed Lander perform the epoxy repair? Or may we attribute the work to another wood specialist?

Posted By: treblig1958 Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 02:38 PM
Originally Posted By: John Roberts
Ted's got Ed pegged. You should pay heed, Larry.
JR


I agree there. We should all wise up.
Posted By: ed good Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 04:34 PM
oh well, this is after all a public forum, with no apparent restrictions...sad that expressions of jealousy and envy have no limits here...
Posted By: tudurgs Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 04:43 PM
STOP IT AGAIN!
Posted By: justin Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 07:12 PM
Keith,thank you for not talking while typing. I may use that one myself.
I am upset that you hijacked the thread to bang on about those who don't agree with you on gun control and rail against someone's business practices.
This is your right but it is a bore to the rest of us.
Please start your own thread on this and contribute to it daily so I can drop in when I feel like it.
Justin
Posted By: Robt. Harris Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 08:43 PM
I'm aware that a number of you here are anti-2nd Amendment, but I didn't realize you'd be just as keen to abolish the 1st!

Best solution, tudurgs, is to just shout em' down, right?....or lobby Dave, as some have done, for the removal of those board members who exercise that right? Some of you ladies are starting to sound like the PC speech advocates we hear of today on our college campuses. Maybe we could even bring in some university trauma counselors to help those of you who feel so violated, as is today's custom.

Or better yet, we could all just lightly skip over those posts by certain members (God knows I do), and even some threads that we think might ruffle our feathers. Sorry for the rant, guys, but this righteous indignation that almost smacks of fascism wears a little thin at times.....even though I recognize you've a right to say it......
Posted By: ed good Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 08:58 PM
"I'm aware that a number of you here are anti-2nd Amendment..."

robt., none that i am aware of, certainly not i...

but then, keet is certainly suspect of being an anti 2nd amendment mole...

who, or what ever it is, has a long history here of rabid irrational posts regarding our gun control rights, which plays right into the hands of the known anti gun fanatics...people like keet, if genuine, are scary to normal people who have rational fears and concerns about public safety issues...
Posted By: keith Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 09:06 PM
Gee Justin, I guess we're going to disagree on this. But as Larry's older brother King has often stated, there's no unanimity in anything. A couple guys seemed to agree with me that Ed Good's anti gun rhetoric, which he has frequently posted on this website, is offensive and damaging to all of us who respect the 2nd Amendment.

A couple others are not clear about their displeasure. When Mike Campbell speaks of leaving when some clowns are gone, I assume he is referring to Larry Clown... I mean Brown. But he'll be back, just like some others like Brian Dudley and Last Dollar who left in a drama laced huff. Hell, even Jerry Lee, aka Alvin Linden returned as a young gal named Hillary with the screen name Gunluvr. But she (or he) is not the first here to post under more than one name.

Ted was 110% correct about some epic battles that occurred here in the so-called good old days. Here's an example in one anti-gun Trolling thread that King started right here on the front page back in 2007:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=40636&page=3

My favorite post in that entire thread was this one. You'd have to read the thread and be familiar with the totality of King's posts here to really appreciate it:

Originally Posted By: NTaxiarchis
So....If I'm a Christian who believes that most liberals are in favor of abridging my 2nd Amendment rights then I also am in favor of enslaving Black people which was still being practiced until 1957 by certain college professors in Georgia until Martin Luther King took time away from wrestling King Brown around the living room to put a stop to it.

Ok. Just so I have it straight in my head.

Nick


A couple others apparently fail to see any connection between preservation of gun rights and sporting clays guns, doubles, or even the existence of a firearms related website. When you post something that "bores" me Justin, I will probably just not read it. I think Rob't Harris really nailed it in his post above. We've seen a thousand off topic threads and threads that go off topic. I wonder why only certain ones ignite a shitstorm? I have been tempted to whine and e-mail Dave whenever it happens just to make a point, but I can't lower myself to be so petty and childish.

FYI, I did not "rail against someone's business practices" as you accused me. However, I agree with Ted 110% in his observations and opinions about Ed, and especially the one he posted this morning about Ed using folks here as a "tool". But it goes further than just his questionable business practices. Ted is forgetting that Ed's last attempt to sell a couple guns here did not go very well when Dave questioned him about his return policy and dealer status. Ed enjoys Trolling and fomenting discord here. He's been temporarily banned at least 3 times, and also tossed off other firearms forums. Maybe you read AmarilloMike's "Pledge Drive to Ban Ed Good" and "Pledge Drive to Ban Ed Good For Good: Part Deux". King Brown got really upset with that effort to solicit donations to ban Ed, but he says nothing about suggestions by his little brother Larry to ban pro-gun Conservatives such as myself. Hmmmmm. I still have Ed's PM to me where he asked me who I was. He got really excited when I told him I was really King Brown posting under another name, and that I was working to make fools of the guys in Misfires, and hoped to bring down that whole sub-forum to finally silence the Conservative pro-gun guys there. He replied that that was a good idea. Here's some of it:

Originally Posted By: ed good
so, who are you, really? ed


Originally Posted By: keith
ed, you know what I said. Please don't tell anyone else... scouts honour, eh? Sorry I have to be mean to you to keep the ruse going. Best we minimize further discussion of this.

Please don't let anyone else know... this will be our little secret.


Originally Posted By: ed good
wow! thats really cool...be up your way in august. what do you think of the evangaline b&b? nice place to stay? ed


Originally Posted By: keith
Are you speaking of Evangeline's Tower B&B near Parrsboro? I never stayed there but hear it's a lovely place, very nice area near the Bay of Fundy. I have hunted waterfowl there with some close friends in Parliament.

I do hope you can stop here for a visit too. I deleted most of my previous reply for obvious reasons. Can't have our little secret getting out to you know whom, eh?


Originally Posted By: ed good
zackly...

as i recall you are around wolfville?


Originally Posted By: keith
About 120 mi. from Wolfville, ed, near Antigonish, but the drive is more like 160 miles or so. I do hope you can find time to visit, or maybe we could meet for dinner in Halifax which is about halfway. I could probably check into other accomodations around Wolfville if you haven't already made reservations. When will you be making the trip?


Originally Posted By: ed good
plan to go the last week in august, depending on health issues.

will keep you posted.


The anti-gun quotes by Ed Good I reproduced here are but a fraction of what he has said on the subject. Ed and a few others have flat-out denied making anti-gun statements, but that pesky QUOTE function can be a b*tch. Several of the trolls who are desperate that Misfires should never return have very self-serving reasons to conceal what they said there. Frankly, I don't care either way, but I will always believe there was a very concerted effort by some here to shut it down. I enjoy a civil discussion about guns as much as anyone, but I'm not so desperate for civil discussions that I turn a blind eye to the anti-gun Trolls here who frequently stab us all in the back while they pretend to be one of us. Many of our esteemed colleagues from Great Britain, Canada, and Australia who lost many of their gun rights have concurred and warned us against complacency. I doubt if any of them would harbor the truly silly notion that only military veterans could have a valid commitment to support for gun rights or the rest of the Constitution.


edit: Looks like Ed was making yet another denial about the existence of anti-2nd Amendment trolls here even as I was typing this. And you wish to have a civil discussion with someone who can deny their own words??? That's funny!




Posted By: L. Brown Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 09:35 PM
I don't care about Ed's motive. He started a thread that has (or maybe had, now) the potential to provoke significant discussion on a topic of interest to a whole lot of people here. If someone wants to complain about Ed's position on gun rights, why not wait until he SAYS something about gun rights? Or better yet . . . hey, why not start a thread about gun rights and launch into your attacks, dredging up stuff from the past that's been dredged many times before? Afraid that maybe you'd get the plug pulled on you?

And no, the first amendment does NOT apply here. BB moderators can censor as they wish. You don't like it, either go elsewhere or create your own sandbox to play in.

And Keith, I never said that only military veterans have a VALID commitment to supporting the 2A and the rest of the Constitution. What I was pointing out--and will stand behind until hell freezes over--is that military veterans ALL make a very different commitment than non-veterans. In the form of a blank check made out to Uncle Sam. When you do that, you are offering your LIFE for your country. I don't think your life is at any risk by either posting on a BB in defense of the 2A, or writing articles about guns (as I do), or sending money to the NRA. Once you enlist and a war comes along, you can't just decide you don't like the job and leave. That's where the difference lies. And anyone who questions me on my support for the ENTIRE Constitution, my immediate question to them is: I think I proved that support via my military service. How about you?
Posted By: keith Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 09:58 PM
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Well, here's another way to look at it: If you never served in the military, then you never put any real TEETH behind your support of the 2A. You never said "Hey, Uncle Sam, here I am! I'm ready to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. And I'm signing a blank check to you. As long as I wear the uniform, you can send me wherever you want, whenever you want." That, IMO, is the TRUE commitment to the Second Amendment. And the rest of the Constitution.


OK, I said VALID and you said TRUE. Big whoop! I forgot you need to stoop to any level to belittle someone and avoid admitting when you are wrong.

I also never said that my life was at risk for posting my support of the 2nd on a BBS. But the 2nd Amendment itself is under constant assault. Oh, you're also wrong about the part where you said " Once you enlist and a war comes along, you can't just decide you don't like the job and leave." It used to be that way, but Obama showed us differently when he traded 5 terrorists for Bo Bergdahl and praised him for his service after he deserted.

I didn't question your support of the "ENTIRE Constitution" Larry. Once again you demonstrate your frequent reading comprehension problems and put words in my mouth. Why don't you just admit you don't like me and admit that you never would have said a thing if Stan's early statement about Ed's frog-eye torch colors was the only off topic statement. I can admit that I don't like you or respect you. I respect your service to this country, but I don't respect you personally. What was it... only about a month or so ago that I confronted you for also taking a thread off-topic? Short memory too, eh? You're a real piece of work.

So what kind of shotguns do hypocrites and people with reading comprehension problems prefer for sporting clays?
Posted By: tudurgs Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 10:03 PM
Dave - Please pull the plug on this drivel
Posted By: ed good Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/14/16 10:10 PM
tudurgs: sounds like a good idea...

meantime, see new thread re sporting clays guns...
Posted By: L. Brown Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 01:24 AM
Keith, I know you may THINK it is . . . but everything isn't about YOU. If one--that's ANYONE, Keith (please note, your name is not specifically attached)--enlists in the military, they're making a rather unique offer concerning defense of the Constitution, and protection of EVERYONE's rights. They've given up choice. Uncle Sam gets to send them wherever, whenever. And some of them don't come back. There are plenty of other ways to stand up for the 2nd Amendment. Valuable ways, but different. Perhaps Keith--now this IS for you--you can tell me just ONE other way that equals the commitment one makes by serving in the military. Under what other circumstances does one offer to put his life on the line for the Constitution and his country--and leave his fate entirely in the hands of the government?

By the way . . . you're confused on the Bergdahl situation. What the president said about Bergdahl did not get him off the hook for desertion. His case is currently under appeal concerning some of the evidence, but he's facing a general court martial. That's the highest level of military justice. And he could receive life in prison, given the charges he faces. It does not look likely that he's going to walk away free.
Posted By: Bob Cash Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 03:26 AM
Originally Posted By: ed good
oh well, this is after all a public forum, with no apparent restrictions...sad that expressions of jealousy and envy have no limits here...


Dim wit.
Intelligence insulter.
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 03:26 AM
Larry,
Ed1 has, in the past, posted complete BS with regard to metal finishing and case coloring. He has foisted his "restored" case colored guns on unsuspecting, non board members, on the net for a long time. He argued with the likes of Oscar Gaddy (that would be the late DOCTOR Gaddy to us) and others who actually knew something about metal treatment, and the art and science of same. Brother Drew has a sickening collection of acetylene torch case colors, a horrific photo of an attempt at sleeving by Ed's hero, Ed Landers, and, now, the photo of the gastly epoxy repair to his BSS.
Perhaps we can agree, that, St Ledger, Ed ain't. But, wait, Larry, there's more.
The attempts he makes to post "interesting", to you, comments, are nothing more than him seeking to find legitimacy for the double gun butchery he oversees. Why just look, he is a participating board member here, how could you go wrong with that old gun (that seems a little expensive, and looks not quite right) that he is selling? A good few have been saved by hitting boards like this and avoided doing business with this hack of double guns. Some have showed up later with questions after a purchase from Ed, and it never ends well for them, Larry.
The second amendment stuff is simply the icing, on top of the frosting, of the turd cake he bakes for unsuspecting neophyte buyers. If someone wants to come here, of all places, and post that they believe nobody should have an AR or a semi-auto handgun, by all means, feel free. But, don't complain when the crap hits the fan. Keith has pointed out some of the complete lunacy these guys are capable of thinking and posting. You can't make it up.
Buyer beware. THAT should be Ed's tag line. Not "interesting".

At least not interesting in a good way.


Best,
Ted
Posted By: keith Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 04:18 AM
Larry, where in hell did you ever get the silly notion that I was discussing or debating anyone's way of standing up for the 2nd Amendment or any other Constitutional Right? You are the one who made the pompous statement about military service being the one "TRUE commitment to the Second Amendment. And the rest of the Constitution." I have on many occasions acknowledged the sacrifices made by the men and women who serve in the military. I never once said that serving in the military was somehow a lesser commitment than merely being an NRA member or any other patriotic citizen. That is you attempting to confer your erroneous opinion onto me. But that is nothing new coming from you. When you are wrong or when you simply cannot comprehend the written word... which happens quite often... you resort to denigration rather than just manning up and admitting to being wrong. So once again Larry, tell us who questioned your "support for the ENTIRE Constitution"??? Your words... your emphasis. Not very civil of you to be making wild-assed accusations again.

By the way Larry, those irrational comments had little or nothing to do with shotguns for sporting clays. Just sayin'

You say you don't care about Ed's motives here. Unfortunately for you and some others who feel compelled to read things they don't like, I do. And so does Ted and several others who are wise to Ed's Trolling, self-promotion, and frequent undermining of our Civil Right to Keep and Bear Arms. My opinion of Ed is based entirely upon his words and deeds here, same as my opinion of you. And here's a news flash Larry... I don't care if Ed is a veteran or even a four star general who won the Congressional Medal of Honor. His dozens of anti-gun statements have no place here and his dishonest denial of his own words and those of his other anti-gun Troll pals does not fit any rational persons notions of civil discourse. And I reiterate, if I hadn't weighed in here, I seriously doubt if you would have had this hissy-fit.

By the way, I am totally familiar with what Obama said and did pertaining to Bergdahl, and with the potential Court Martial. And I also know how Obama has influenced Military policy by purging dozens of officers who oppose his policies and emasculation of the military. IF Bergdahl is convicted of desertion, It would not be surprised to see him freed with a presidential pardon. Did those extremely close encounters with Russian fighter jets repeatedly passing within spitting distance of our battleships warm your heart? I'll bet your older brother King is calling Obama "cerebral and eloquent" for allowing Putin to once again poke a finger in his eye. I'm glad to see you did not capitalize the word "president". I don't either when I refer to Obama. Wayne LaPierre is my President.

For your reading pleasure, here's a link to the locked thread that started out here in the main Double Gun forum and resulted in one of Ed's suspensions. At least one guy said he'd never return here after receiving several e-mail threats from Ed. You've hitched your wagon to a real winner Larry.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=348207&page=1
Posted By: craigd Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 04:26 AM
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
....If one--that's ANYONE, Keith (please note, your name is not specifically attached)--enlists in the military, they're making a rather unique offer concerning defense of the Constitution, and protection of EVERYONE's rights. They've given up choice. Uncle Sam gets to send them wherever, whenever. And some of them don't come back. There are plenty of other ways to stand up for the 2nd Amendment. Valuable ways, but different. Perhaps Keith--now this IS for you--you can tell me just ONE other way that equals the commitment one makes by serving in the military. Under what other circumstances does one offer to put his life on the line for the Constitution and his country--and leave his fate entirely in the hands of the government?....

How would you reconcile that with the selfless military stint of our current sec. of state?
Posted By: ed good Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 01:21 PM
yawn...


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewUserFeedback.aspx?User=128526
Posted By: bonny Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 02:26 PM
I use a nice little hinton of taunton boxlock for clays. Its nothing special, just the usual british boxlock ejector. I have been told by plenty of people that its unsuitable for clays as its too light. But to me if the gun fits you properly (which it does) and you use the light 1oz or less clay loads (which i do) then being pounded by recoil need not be an issue.

I have also heard the old chestnut that old side by sides simply can't stand up to the constant firing of shells at clays. My response to that is have a look online at youtube or the like and watch a video of a driven pheasant or grouse shoot, those guns never stop firing, and most of the quality old guns over a hundred years old are still going strong.
Posted By: Franc Otte Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 02:41 PM
This is nuts...way to many turds in this litterbox...Jeesus , its so predictable...Ed starts a rare post,for him... one that might even raise some interesting thought.. then in comes Keith with his pasted on canned volumes of quotes...then it really starts to go downhill & have no relevancy at all to the origin theme...I know Ed can get you going, & I kinda admire your full-on attitude Keith ,but I just find it a bit much
The were about 3 replies at the start of page one,before it got derailed
Sorry, but this stuff drives me nutzo
cheers
franc
Posted By: mtwoodson Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 03:01 PM
After a while, even this kind of stuff loses its entertainment value.
Perhaps an old fashioned duel to settle it once and all?
Or at least to end it.
Posted By: ed good Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 03:04 PM
franc, like other trivial negativity that some times invades our normally pleasant lives, thread trashing can be annoying if one allows it to be...i find it rather amusing, as it provides me with an opportunity to contemplate clever responses...jousting with turds can be entertaining.

meantime, i did start a new thread re sxs's for sporting clays...please feel free to participate if you dare...
Posted By: ed good Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 03:09 PM
mt: as too dueling, it is my understanding that it was a practice utilized by gentlemen to settle disputes...as i do not consider my critics here to be gentlemen, your suggestion is not worthy of consideration...besides, some of them may be better shots than i...
Posted By: Claybird Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 03:18 PM
So much hostility here.
Posted By: ed good Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 03:19 PM
hey, long as we are off topic, any body watch trump's speech last night in ny? it was mostly about the high lights of his early real estate development successes in the ny metro area...i lived and worked in and around nyc when he was working on some of those projects...i was a big fan of trump back then and am even more so now...much of what he summarized last night may be found in detail, in his book. "the art of the deal"...if you really want to know how trump operates, read that book.
Posted By: ed good Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 03:30 PM
rob, agreed, lots of hostility here, but only from a relative small number of chronic malcontents...not necessary to name them, as their reputation for frequent and often repetitive hostile posts here precede them...we can expect a few more malcontents to punch in shortly...its almost like they have a little club...
Posted By: bonny Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 03:32 PM
Can't a mod simply remove off topic posts ? Guns and shooting are hobbys to me that get me away from the drudgery of life, its a pity to come here and have to witness more politics etc.
Posted By: ed good Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/15/16 03:38 PM
bonny, course a mod can simply remove off topic posts...but alas, it is what it is...

meanwhile, see new thread re sxs's for sporting clays...do you shoot sporting clays in ireland? hope so, as it would be a wonderful reason to visit your bonny isle.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/16/16 11:53 AM
Originally Posted By: keith
Originally Posted By: ed good
weird, malcontents seem to delight in trashing this thread...


Weird anti-gun Trolls seem to delight in trashing the 2nd Amendment, the NRA, and the Gun Rights of law abiding U.S. citizens.

Originally Posted By: ed good
next question:

does the second amendment prohibit state and local governments from regulating the keeping of arms by the people?

i believe it does not...what say you?


Originally Posted By: ed good
some view the current version of a well regulated militia as your local unarmed volunteer fire department...augmented by your local armed town police force.

what used to be militia is now your state's national guard, which is under the command of your state's governor... and your state guard is subject to call up and command of the president of the united states...


Originally Posted By: ed good
guess no body here has the balls to answer my question:


disarm...seems to work for the rest of the civilized world...

why not us?


This little exchange is for King's little bro, Larry Brown. It took place right here in the main Double Gun forum. No shortage of "Do as I say... not as I do" in this place:

Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Originally Posted By: ed good
ah yes...the old " he aint here no mo, he dead", dodge...


Pretty sure, in this case, the individual in question really was dead. We all die, Ed . . . although there's a special corner of hell reserved for shady gun dealers.


I do hope there's a special place in hell for hypocrites too.


Well gosh, Keith . . . I thought from the above that you DID bring the second amendment--who supports it and who doesn't--into the discussion. It was quite a ways back, so maybe you just forgot in the interim.

And that quote you attribute to me . . . could you maybe provide a link? I don't remember saying anything contained in it. I do appreciate being quoted accurately.

As for foisting my opinion on you, Keith . . . once more, you've confused yourself into thinking that absolutely EVERYTHING is about you. Nope, it's not. My comment was a GENERAL one, aimed at anyone who talks about support (or lack thereof) for the 2nd Amendment. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. I do notice that you haven't come up with any other form of commitment that equals signing that blank check to Uncle Sam, which veterans do, so you obviously agree with me on that part.


Concerning Ed, I only care where he stands on the 2nd Amendment if and when there's a discussion of the 2nd Amendment. Hey, maybe somebody doesn't hold exactly the same views you do. So what? That's not what's being discussed here. Or what WAS being discussed here. It's rude to insert yourself into a discussion and change the subject because you don't like something about the individual who started the discussion. Stick to the @#$%^ topic! If you want to start a discussion on the 2A, fire away. I'm thinking you don't have the stones to do that because you're afraid Dave will slap your hand . . . so what you do is try to turn any discussion started by Ed (or maybe someone else with whom you don't agree) into a diatribe about how wrong they are on the 2A. Grow up. Learn some manners. And you'd be a happier person if you didn't spend so much time dredging up stuff from discussions that occurred in the past. Let it go.

Posted By: keith Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/17/16 01:49 AM
My Larry, you are really serious about showing everyone that you have reading comprehension problems. Why don't you re-read what I really said about the 2nd Amendment and Ed's frequent trashing of it. I did say that maybe you and justin agree with Ed. But that has nothing to do with what I said about your... wait for it... here are my exact words again Larry... "silly notion that I was discussing or debating anyone's way of standing up for the 2nd Amendment or any other Constitutional Right?"

Maybe you ought to use your G.I. Bill Benefits and take some remedial reading classes. Since you can't comprehend things, I'll spell it out for you again. I was responding to your goofy diatribe about military service being the one "TRUE commitment to the Second Amendment. And the rest of the Constitution." I agree that military service is honorable. And I DISAGREE with your assertion that military service alone is some superior proof of support for the Constitution. Or maybe you think that the Ft. Hood shooter Maj. Nidal Hassan is a stronger supporter of the Constitution than any non-military U.S. citizen? How about this member of the Military Larry?... this is your Commander-in-Chief:



I want to attribute that to my friend Doug (PA24), who also thought you were a Class A jerk Larry, and who quit posting on this BBS because he got fed up with guys like you, King, and Ed.

Of all the veterans and current members of the military who frequent this site, you are the only one who is arrogant enough to act as if your service gives you more rights to speak about the 2nd Amendment than anyone else. You did in fact say, "As long as I wear the uniform, you can send me wherever you want, whenever you want." That, IMO, is the TRUE commitment to the Second Amendment. And the rest of the Constitution." Even one of the military members here thought that was over the top:

Originally Posted By: lonesome roads
"If you never served in the military...rest of the Constitution."

C'mon, Larry. You don't really believe that, do you?

"...I hope."

What's that old saying...poop in one hand...? By your own definition your post was rude. Not that I care or think it was.

_______________________
1 year, 9 months, 15 days. (no that's not the time left on my prison sentence)


What quote are you concerned that I mis-attributed to you other than where I said the word VALID and you said TRUE? I already addressed that grave error, and since then, I have either used the QUOTE function or directly copied and pasted any words I attributed to you. You're not suggesting that I dishonestly altered something you said, are you? You may want to use the advanced search function before you put your foot in your mouth again. I've also learned that you have to nit-pick every word and syllable to avoid admitting when you are wrong. You still haven't told us who questioned your "support for the ENTIRE Constitution"? Nobody even mentioned military service here until you brought it up with your crazy statement about the "500 pound gorilla in the room (that) never gets mentioned." If you're not an NRA member, you can just come out and say so.

I'm glad to hear you "only care where he (Ed)stands on the 2nd Amendment if and when there's a discussion of the 2nd Amendment." I already told you I care about it every time he makes one of his Trolling posts. I intentionally stayed out of Ed's thread "AFTER MARKET TUBING OF SXS GUNS" just to see if you would have a problem with Doc Drew taking an off-topic jab at Ed and his alleged partner in gun desecration, Old Ed Lander. I totally admit being rude to Ed. Few people have shit on this forum more than him. Did you happen to see where he once again made his claim about me being an anti-gun mole? Do you think lying about people is rude Larry? Nevermind, you still haven't apologized for lying about me several weeks ago. I'm hardly afraid of Dave slapping my hands, but I am very surprised that you haven't gone crying to him once again to lock this thread.

Posted By: Drew Hause Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/17/16 02:06 AM
Ed's post "fortunately, i have the services of an old time nh gunsmith, ed lander, who has the tooling and skill to fix these kinds of problems..."

Not sure reality orientation counts as OT, but when ol' ed stops the transparently self-serving pseudo-discussions there will be no need to reorient him using visual clues, of which I have several wink
(I liked the way Bro. Ted 'splained it better smile )


Posted By: Replacement Re: TRASHED THREAD #502 - 04/17/16 02:20 AM
Quote:
Few people have shit on this forum more than him.

Hard to tell the pot from the kettle.
Posted By: craigd Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/17/16 02:41 AM
Hey Doc Drew, that sleeving picture was much appreciated for a little chuckle when it showed exactly what some tools and some skills could do. I had taken a quick look on your site, because I recalled the picture, and I was glad in a way that I couldn't find it. Anyway, later, it appeared almost like magic.
Posted By: GaryW Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/17/16 04:11 AM
If Ed the Torch was a used car salesman, he'd touch up a classic 57 T-Bird with a can of Dollar General Store spray paint and try to pass it off as original. His posts get "trashed" as he calls it, cuz no one wants to listen to his drivel which is usually geared towards some turd firearm he's trying to pass off on a naive, unsuspecting buyer. Caveat emptor.....Ed is famous for posting a link to his 90+ % positive gunbroker rating which includes 16 negative comments. Most of his positive comments are from people he's bought guns from, but the 16 negatives are from people he's stuck with torched, botched lemons that he refuses to make good on. He is not a collector, never posts pics of good guns that are his, nor hunting pics with personal firearms displayed. In short, he brings nothing to the table on this informative, entertaining and authoritative website that is of interest or knowledge to anyone. Everyone hopes he will eventually leave, but as this is the only gun forum of any kind that hasn't yet kicked him off, it is doubtful he will do so. Sometimes ya just gotta walk around a turd instead of stepping in it.
Now, to add a little something to Ed's original topic; I've been to many SxS only sporting clays shoots and have yet to see a Browning BSS....because they were mostly made with 26 & 28" barrels and sporting shooters prefer 30" and longer barrels and prefer older guns; something Ed would know if he had any experience in these types of clay target shoots
Posted By: keith Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/17/16 07:53 AM
.
Posted By: keith Re: TRASHED THREAD #502 - 04/17/16 08:02 AM
Originally Posted By: Replacement
Quote:
Few people have shit on this forum more than him.

Hard to tell the pot from the kettle.


Who would know better than you Replacement? This one was posted in Misfires in AmarilloMike's thread "Is Double Gun Dealer ed good Anti-Hunting?"

Originally Posted By: Replacement
If you don't ignore him, he won't go away. His postings are probably hurting his business, so he should just shut up. I just advised a guy a few days ago regarding a gun he was thinking about buying from Ed. Told the guy the gun looked right in the ad, but you can't be sure with Ed, so ask lots of questions, get lots of pictures, get the return policy in writing, save all the evidence, and be prepared for the gun to be less than advertised. Didn't tell him to not buy it, just told him to be very careful, and to read Ed's posts on this BBS before moving forward.
Posted By: Replacement Re: TRASHED THREAD #502 - 04/17/16 07:17 PM
Keith, ya got nothin'. Time to seek professional help.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/17/16 11:24 PM
Originally Posted By: justin
Keith,thank you for not talking while typing. I may use that one myself.
I am upset that you hijacked the thread to bang on about those who don't agree with you on gun control and rail against someone's business practices.
This is your right but it is a bore to the rest of us.
Please start your own thread on this and contribute to it daily so I can drop in when I feel like it.
Justin


Well Keith . . . there you go. See, not everyone agrees with you. And not everyone who DISAGREES with you is anti-gun. You toss that around like you're some kind of special, stand-up guy because of your support for the 2A. You referred to Ed as an anti-gun troll. So yeah, you opened the debate on what constitutes support of the 2A. Military service clearly does, and in a very different way than does being a member of the NRA. As for your examples, the military falls under civilian authority. The president is C in C, but he's a civilian. Personally, having worn the uniform under 8 different presidents, the one I felt least comfortable with was the only one of the bunch who never served: President Clinton. That being said, I'd feel even less comfortable with the current one.

As for another example, the military being quite large, there are criminals (and even the occasional terrorist) to be found there. Also among the ranks of NRA membership. But anyone who's come out of the military with an honorable discharge has proven something others have not. That's why they have the status of veteran, and that's why they have certain privileges non-vets don't have. As it should be. That blank check we all wrote to Uncle Sam is a pretty big deal, when you stop to think about it.

And by the way, I never qualified for the GI Bill. There wasn't one for Reservists when I joined. So even though I was in the military the entire time I was in college, that was one benefit I didn't get. Glad to say that's since been rectified.

Justin and I have given you the appropriate advice for how to engage in a discussion on gun control, the 2A, etc. But I expect you'll undoubtedly continue to butt in when other legitimate subjects are under discussion.
Posted By: craigd Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/18/16 12:17 AM
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
....the debate on what constitutes support of the 2A. Military service clearly does....

....anyone who's come out of the military with an honorable discharge has proven something others have not. That's why they have the status of veteran, and that's why they have certain privileges non-vets don't have. As it should be....

....I have given you the appropriate advice for how to engage in a discussion....

What's a 'privilege' Larry. Writer of the gospel on the 2nd? Asked for a second time in a slightly different way. Would our current sec-o-state be your decision maker on all things 2nd based on the status of his military discharge?

When you get stuck on a notion, is it kind of like research for an article? And, yup, no doubt in my mind I'm way off topic.
Posted By: keith Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/18/16 07:59 AM
You're still very confused Larry. I didn't open up any 2nd Amendment debate about Ed. There is nothing to debate as far as I'm concerned. His anti-gun rhetoric speaks for itself, and only an IDIOT would think there's something to debate there. Ed frequently tried to initiate debates concerning his ideas about giving up portions of our gun rights in Misfires, and I shot him down every time and told him there was nothing to discuss. But it's looking more and more as if you agree with Ed. Here's a couple examples of times he wished to discuss giving up some of our Constitutional Rights:

Originally Posted By: ed good
if society, via our law makers, deem it necessary to restrict or prohibit our possession of certain classes of arms, then every good citizen should obey the law for the good of the majority.

and if some here wish to discuss further restriction and prohibition of certain classes of arms here, then why not?


Originally Posted By: ed good
http://news.yahoo.com/celebrities-demand-removal-confederate-symbol-mississippi-flag-225831525.html

if mississippians can have a dialog regarding restriction of the display of "the flag", then why cant we have a dialog here regarding the restriction of semi auto handguns?


I also never initiated any off-topic discussion that seems to suggest that veterans have some kind of super-citizenship and a superior commitment to the 2nd Amendment or the rest of the Constitution. You did that Larry, and you can't seem to let it go... even though it's waaaaay off-topic. I think craigd further shot down that idiotic notion with his example of Swift Boat John Kerry. I'm sure Kerry is hardly the only anti-2nd Amendment veteran out there. But you probably believed those photo-op pics of him with a shotgun and camo hunting coat when he was running for President.

The advice you and Justin gave me has pretty much fallen on deaf ears. As I recall, he also wrongly accused me of "railing against someone's business practices." And you have put words in my mouth and wrongly accused me of initiating a 2A debate. I seriously don't give a crap what you think, and am only responding to point out how delusional you are. There was also that little statement where you appeared to be suggesting that I had mis-atttributed some quote to you as well. You appear to wish to move away from that one, and you also neglected to answer my very legitimate question about Ed telling lies about me. But since you have done the same thing, I guess we can conclude that you feel that sort of behavior is proper and civil.

Too bad someone doesn't start a thread about whining arrogant bloviating pompous asses with reading comprehension problems Larry. You'd be dead-nuts on-topic every time.

Posted By: gjw Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/18/16 10:31 PM
Well, my time and my 2c. I'm a vet also, 23 years Active duty (Army) and I'm starting to get a bit annoyed when some here is trashing a fellow vet. To those who have served, many thanks! IMO you are "super citizens" and a cut above those who did not serve. I understand that not all can serve, medical issues etc. But to the big mouths who never served for whatever reason you sure like us when it comes to protecting your rights during a time of war. I didn't see you in the Gulf or in any other conflict. Much to easy to stay home and make money, and not upset your way of life. While you were sitting at home watching TV, many of us were playing in the sand waiting for a chemical or Arty attack. Ours was not a 9 to 5 job, like yours. Rather than trash a vet, you should thank him.

My son is now in the Army, guess carrying on a family tradition that goes back to our War of Independence. Like me he didn't join for the benefits or money, but because he wants to serve and protect this country. He's willing to put his life on the line to ensure that we can speak our minds (like this board) and to enjoy the freedoms in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. What have you done to protect them?

When I joined up, soldiers were considered second class citizens, that has changed some, but for some we always will be second class.....until a war threatens your easy way of life.

IMO, this board has gone to hell because of a few loud mouths who disrupt any post made by someone they don't like or agree with. Instead of saying something constructive, they just trash someone personally or take over the post and bend it to what they want. Sad.

BTW, my wife and I are both NRA Life Members and are strong supporters of the 2A, just in case you want to trash us as Anti-2A
Posted By: SKB Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/18/16 10:52 PM
Thank you both you and your son Greg for your service to our country. I always enjoy your posts, especially about getting the kids out shooting. You too Larry. Best regards,
Steve
Posted By: craigd Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/18/16 10:56 PM
Sorry to butt back in MSG Westberg, and a heart felt appreciation for your service.

I would ask you to reread what you're calling military bashing. I think you might see that it is criticism of the position and/or comment from a person who happens to be a veteran not a reflection on their service.

Your rank probably made you responsible for the rating of many soldiers. The example I thought of seemed to lead me to believe that Purple Hearts were handed out like m&m's, and a full tour was a good bit shorter than a year, but that's just me and me alone. How about you, do you see him as a friend of the 2nd?

While I served, that time has passed, and I too think more about direct family members who are overseas at this moment and proudly serving.
Posted By: gjw Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/18/16 11:31 PM
Hi all, thanks for the kind words they are appreciated! As to an certain individual's support of the 2A, I doubt that he does. I firmly believe that LB does without a doubt!

Thanks craig for your service also.

I spoke my peace and I think this will be the last post I make on this subject. Thanks again all!

Best!

Greg
Posted By: Little Creek Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/19/16 01:11 AM
I bought a pre-Knockabout model (1891) in original configuration with damascus barrels. This 12 gauge has 2-5/8" chambers, which I bet was the nominal chamber length for Francotte 12's of early production. It now has long forcing cones as recommended by Sherman Bell, and I have shot many nitro loads through it.

The quality of the low end price gun is probably typical of the period. Fantastic triggers, good engraving, and decent balance... a 30" barrel gun at 6-3/4 pounds.
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/19/16 01:41 AM
Wrong thread Little Creek. (kidding)

On the other side of craigd's argument I don't believe Justice Scalia served in the military. Anyone doubt his commitment to the Constitution? Or think less of it?

______________________
Everybody dance now!
Posted By: L. Brown Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/19/16 12:37 PM
Originally Posted By: craigd


Your rank probably made you responsible for the rating of many soldiers. The example I thought of seemed to lead me to believe that Purple Hearts were handed out like m&m's, and a full tour was a good bit shorter than a year, but that's just me and me alone. How about you, do you see him as a friend of the 2nd?



Craig, reference Kerry, I always thought the back and forth between his campaign and Bush's reference military service was stupid. Both served, both received honorable discharges. Good place to leave it. But Kerry & Co stepped on it big time, IMO, by trying to make an issue of Kerry's service (I remember his "reporting for duty!" speech at the Dem convention) vs Bush's. I once heard Bob Dole--a man with a military record that's pretty hard to question--remark that he'd told Kerry he should have been a "quiet hero". IMO, too bad Dole didn't use Clinton's draft dodging record to beat him over the head. But that was before 9/11, and other than veterans, no one really cared.

I recall a couple libs, on another board, stating that Bush had gone "AWOL". I was in the Reserves at the same time as Bush (late 60's), and actually had similar "irregularities" on my record: missed drills, missed Annual Training. In my case, it was because I moved from Iowa to DC (to take a job with CIA). It was 1968 and I had less than 6 months left before my enlistment was up. I visited 2 or 3 Guard and Reserve units out there. Because of Vietnam, those units were full strength and they had no interest whatsoever in welcoming me for the few months I had left. But everyone who was in the Reserves back then understood that. When I reenlisted several years later, post-CIA, those "irregularities" were right there for everyone to see. No one ever questioned them. It never came up when my paperwork went in for a Top Secret clearance; never came up when my commanding officer put me in for a direct commission; never came up when I was selected to command units on a couple different occasions.

All that being said . . . sure, there are veterans who are anti-hunting and anti-gun. It is their RIGHT to hold that position, whether we agree with them or not. But that does not change the fact that by serving, they made a commitment to the very Constitution that gives us the right to support gun ownership--but which also gives them the right to oppose it.

Re the comment on Justice Scalia, further down the line, I had to look up his bio. He came of age when the draft really meant something--as I did. However--and the same is true for me--back then, it was pretty much an automatic deferment if you went to college. (I joined the Guard in high school, and my fellow college-bound classmates thought I was nuts because I didn't have to do it.) But Scalia (in addition to being a very dedicated hunter) ended up with perhaps the very best platform from which to defend gun rights. A lot of people, unless they're somehow disqualified from serving, have the opportunity to join the military. In contrast, only a very few are ever going to sit on the federal bench (let alone the Supreme Court!), where they have an even greater opportunity to demonstrate their support for the Second Amendment.
Posted By: Geo. Newbern Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/19/16 02:45 PM
Larry, it was interesting to read your remembrance of the draft. I attended college and law school both on student deferment. I did do four years of ROTC in college though, and had an infantry officer's job awaiting graduation.

I am in a law firm with about 40 lawyers with offices in Atlanta and here in my home town. As far as I am aware, I am the only one in the group who ever experienced military service.

The cessation of the draft and the volunteer Army has to my mind been instrumental in the liberalization of America and the "hate America first" attitude to the point that you and I may no longer recognize it as we remember from our formative years. Only military (or other
public, like maybe the Peace Corps) service or the threat of the draft obligation can truly give one the stake in America that makes the best citizens. JMHO...Geo



Posted By: craigd Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/19/16 03:21 PM
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
....All that being said . . . sure, there are veterans who are anti-hunting and anti-gun. It is their RIGHT to hold that position, whether we agree with them or not. But that does not change the fact that by serving, they made a commitment to the very Constitution that gives us the right to support gun ownership--but which also gives them the right to oppose it....

Though I'd admit I don't agree with quite all the rest that you said, I appreciate the time and effort in your reply.

On the previous page, you mentioned that an honorable discharge has 'proven' some higher authority to make decisions on the 2nd, admittedly to oppose it. I would hope you're not saying that we should accept their decisions, and leave it at that.

Since you expanded a bit on what you feel the value of an honorable discharge is for the example in question. Possibly you can see that once politicized, the commitment seems to more to the self than the Constitution. I also think there's a difference between swearing an oath for the purposes of resume building, and actual words and actions of commitment. As soon as that good place to leave it, the discharge, was crossed, the budding politician testified before congress and continues to show to this day that commitment seems to mean bending, skirting around and evolving of the Constitution. All I was offering was an opinion example that it may not be the best advice to blindly follow a blanket qualification. If one advocates for an anti-hunting and anti-gun regulator and judicial appointer based on the status of their military discharge, couldn't that reasonably call into question an individual's commitment to the 2nd?

I've mentioned it a few times in the past and stand by my appreciation for your service to the country.
Posted By: Franc Otte Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/19/16 03:25 PM
Ahem,
So you guys like the 30" BSS for Clays ,or what??
franc
Posted By: keith Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/19/16 04:09 PM
Originally Posted By: Franc Otte
Ahem,
So you guys like the 30" BSS for Clays ,or what??
franc


Good point Franc. But it is Larry who continues to keep straying off topic with his silly idea that certain citizens have a stronger commitment to the 2nd Amendment or the rest of the Constitution. Now the short list of Super-Citizens has expanded from veterans to Supreme Court Justices who never served in the Military.

Of course, Larry is wrong again, but he will move Heaven and Earth to ever avoid admitting being wrong. There are both veterans and non-veterans who strongly support the Constitution. And there are both veterans and non-veterans... and even Supreme Court Justices... who work to undermine the Constitution. That's why we're all so concerned about who gets picked to replace Antonin Scalia. But Larry is now making excuses for the veteran John Kerry. Of course he has the Right to attempt to gut the 2nd Amendment. And we have the right to be very critical of that. Veterans fought and died to preserve those rights, and real veterans who understand what their service was for do not think they have some superior level of rights that other U.S. citizens do not have. Now don't get me wrong. There are certain citizens who get extra Rights. Some minorities get Affirmative Action preferences. Atheists get to stifle the religious expression of others. A lot of Democrats get to vote more than once, such as Hamilton County Ohio Board of Elections worker Melowese Richardson who admitted voting for Obama 6 times. Hell, even dead Democrats often get to keep voting while veterans who go on to become felons lose the right to vote. There are also veterans who go waiting and wanting for medical care at VA Hospitals while illegal aliens get immediate attention at any E.R.

If gjw seriously thought I was trashing veterans, I respectfully say he has as much a reading comprehension problem as Larry. I already said I respect the service of our vets, and I said I respect Larry's service. I certainly respect gjw's service and I respect the extra level of 2A commitment he and his wife have made as Life NRA members. But I do not respect the egotistical bloviator Larry. I'm surprised he hasn't told us he dated Jackie Kennedy and makes award winning wine like his older brother. And I do not respect anti-gun Trolls like Ed who come here and pretend to be gun guys. Like I said, I don't care if Ed was a Medal of Honor winning 4 Star General. In my opinion, he has repeatedly proven his commitment to weakening the 2nd Amendment which would only serve to hasten the day that we can't even own and shoot sporting clays shotguns. Larry wants to give Ed (and John Kerry) a podium.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/20/16 12:10 AM
Craig, the only thing I said on the previous page about what an honorable discharge has proven is this:

"But anyone who's come out of the military with an honorable discharge has proven something others have not." Just to clarify, since you apparently didn't/don't understand: What they have proven is that they made a commitment to their country (which only a relative few make these days), and that they have followed through on that commitment. That commitment is to support the Constitution, against all enemies, foreign and domestic. The honorable discharge is proof positive of satisfactory completion of that commitment.

And Keith, you also have reading problems. Not a "stronger" commitment, but a DIFFERENT commitment. Does that make a veteran a "super citizen"? Nope. Makes him a veteran. And not making any excuses for Kerry. Pretty sure he's never posted here. But if he does, until Dave decides to pull the plug on him--and that goes for Ed too--then they both have rights under the Constitution to free speech. That amendment comes right before the Second. Expect even you can count and figure that one out, Keith. Dave's the one who gives us this podium. Whatever Ed has proven to you, why insist on butting in when there's a legitimate discussion of sxs for sporting clays going on--to which, apparently, you had nothing to contribute? Hey, Dig just started a post--to which you even contributed--about defending hunting rights. Opens the door to you to start one where you can talk about defending gun rights all you want. And people can go there expecting to hear about gun rights. At which point you're playing by the rules to say whatever is on your mind.

You see, it's this way: An old French philosopher named Voltaire once supposedly said (although he never actually did): "I may not believe in what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Pretty much how I feel about Ed or Kerry or anyone else who chooses to post here. The part about staying on topic . . . well, that's just common courtesy. Which some folks clearly lack. But hey, they're also into misrepresenting the statements of others--so what can you expect?

Inferiority complex bothering you that badly, Keith, for not having made the same commitment veterans have made? That even John Kerry made? I guess I can understand that. They served. You didn't. Too late to make up for that now.

I now officially swear off further mud wrestling with the pig. You only get dirty, and the pig enjoys it.
Posted By: RHD45 Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/20/16 01:09 AM
My father was career Navy and I grew up in bases all over the country. I also served 4 years in the Marines with a year in Vietnam in 1965-66.I can state without reservation that there are "veterans" that I would not trust for 5 seconds with my back turned.There are vets worthy of respect,most I believe, and others deserving a prison term if not a firing squad.
Posted By: craigd Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/20/16 01:33 AM
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Craig, the only thing I said on the previous page about what an honorable discharge has proven is this:

"But anyone who's come out of the military with an honorable discharge has proven something others have not." Just to clarify, since you apparently didn't/don't understand....

....Opens the door to you to start one where you can talk about defending gun rights all you want. And people can go there expecting to hear about gun rights. At which point you're playing by the rules to say whatever is on your mind....

...."I may not believe in what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Pretty much how I feel about Ed or Kerry or anyone else who chooses to post here. The part about staying on topic . . . well, that's just common courtesy. Which some folks clearly lack. But hey, they're also into misrepresenting the statements of others--so what can you expect?....

Hiya Lar,
If I ever get invited over to your place, I know highly doubtful, will you be okay if I tramp around on your furniture exercising my first amendment right? Maybe we should remember who's house this is before we get the french to defend our right to free speech.

As to reading and comprehension problems, you said, 'the debate on what constitutes support of the 2A. Military service clearly does'. It's back just a page or two. You 'clarification' is kind of like back peddling.

Anyway, if you'd rather not start your own thread, why open the door? No, I don't think you're a mud wrestling pig, but if the pen fits jump in and wallow?
Posted By: keith Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/20/16 02:39 AM
Oink Oink Larry! That ought to be something you can comprehend.

craigd beat me to the punch on your silly and erroneous statement about Ed having First Amendment rights here on this BBS. He also succinctly corrected you on your accusation that I have the same sort of reading comprehension problems as you. FYI, the 1st Amendment is to protect political speech, and this is a private BBS owned and operated by one Dave Weber, who has already stated in the past that he does not want or appreciate anti-gun comments being posted on his site. Dave can and has censored whomever and whatever he wishes, and he has totally silenced Ed on at least three occasions. So far, he has not done that to me, even when you cried to him like a whiny little girl. As to your statement not made by Voltaire, are you telling us that you'll defend to the death the right of Ed or John Kerry to make anti-gun and anti-hunting statements... but that very same staunch defense of free speech does not extend to keith? Sure looks that way Larry.

That's what I meant earlier today when I said "Veterans fought and died to preserve those rights, and real veterans who understand what their service was for do not think they have some superior level of rights that other U.S. citizens do not have." Contrast that with your ridiculous idea that Ed or John Kerry have unlimited rights to trash the 2nd Amendment, but I don't have any right to say anything that the Great Larry Brown does not approve of. Have you noticed that Ed bailed on you here Larry? Several of us told you he was a self-serving Troll. The last thing Ed really wanted was a discussion of SC guns. Ever hear the term "Useful Idiot" Larry? Thanks for being one and for proving our point.

Now let's address your ridiculous parsing of words concerning my egregious error of suggesting that you just might consider your "DIFFERENT" commitment to the 2A as a "STRONGER" commitment. Tell us Larry, just what did you mean by "DIFFERENT"? You also called it "the TRUE commitment to the Second Amendment. Remember this?

Originally Posted By: L. Brown


I'd also hasten to point out that threads about the 2A and who supports it or who does not always leave me a bit cold, mainly because the 500 pound gorilla in the room never gets mentioned. It's like NRA membership gives you an automatic pass on being a supporter of the 2A. Well, here's another way to look at it: If you never served in the military, then you never put any real TEETH behind your support of the 2A. You never said "Hey, Uncle Sam, here I am! I'm ready to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. And I'm signing a blank check to you. As long as I wear the uniform, you can send me wherever you want, whenever you want." That, IMO, is the TRUE commitment to the Second Amendment. And the rest of the Constitution.


So lets analyze this like any normal person with a brain might. According to you, your commitment via military service is a "500 pound gorilla" that never gets mentioned. And it is the only one with "any real TEETH". And it is the "TRUE" commitment! Any normal person who read those things just might conclude that you consider your commitment stronger than mine, or any other person who did not serve in the military. Then when you go on to ask about the "inferiority complex" you incorrectly assume I must have for not serving in the military... well it becomes obvious that you must feel that you are superior and that your commitment is stronger. No, you didn't say those exact words. But it is very obvious that you have NOT been saying that your "DIFFERENT" and "TRUE" commitment with "real TEETH" is either a weaker or equal commitment than those who are not veterans. If it ain't equal and it ain't weaker... what does that leave us to conclude???... unless you are dealing with a self-described wordsmith who will say and do anything to ever avoid admitting to being wrong.

You really are a piece of work Larry.... the Energizer Bunny of bloviating jerks.
Posted By: Argo44 Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/20/16 02:58 AM
Gentlemen, Please, Please. I'm a veteran. I'm new to the board. I have two doubles..one a wall gun apparently handmade by Pashtuns in the FATA which I brought home from Quetta (with all sorts of Urdu or Pashtu markings on the brass)..the other a Reilly ..and I posted a lot on this gun. (actually three if I count my wife's 1905 Williams Evans 20 ga). The internet is filled up with this hyperbolic, anti-social stuff. Can we please talk double guns here? There are thousands of sites to debate the other issues (not that anyone will listen).

I'm shooting clays with my hammer gun EM Reily 12ga, 30" barrels. And have taken my wife's 20ga William Evans out with some surprising results. I don't care about scores or victories over opponents. I want to shoot what I enjoy. It is just a hoot. But I do see a lot of high-end OU with fancy chokes at our range and they all want to hold the Reilly and Evans..always asking "Is this a Fox?"

It's interesting for me that the Reilly shooting 2 1/2 RST 7/8 8 shot..kicks a whole lot less than the Wm Evans 20ga 2 3/4. Odd). (You can see I haven't been out shooting doubles for many years) ..

The Reilly is sort of like a M-79 as I recall..when I shot it way back then there was a thump and an almost primordial visceral reaction in the gut - I can't help but wonder what a flechette round from a M-79 would do to a pheasant or a clay? Wonder if you can get a custom double 40mm M-79? (by the way...the quintessential Vietnam "gotcha" question was, "How do you get an airburst with an M-79? All the young Special Ops studs in Afghanistan and Iraq would go "duhhhh".. I'd reply, "Do like the Montagnards and shoot the HE round into a tree.")

Posted By: craigd Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/20/16 04:24 AM
Originally Posted By: Argo44
Gentlemen, Please, Please. I'm a veteran. I'm new to the board. I have two doubles....

....The internet is filled up with this hyperbolic, anti-social baloney. Can we please talk double guns here? There are thousands of sites to debate the other issues (not that anyone will listen)....

Larry is an extremely knowledgable and generous source of many things double gun. If I had to make a bet, I'd bet he'd talk double guns with you. Me, being the pig that I am, don't mind wading through off topic odds and ends for the numerous tidbits that can be priceless. Would you happen to have a sonogram of the Reilly, I know someone that can read it. Just having a little light hearted fun, Argo, take care.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/20/16 08:06 PM
Only pig Larry needs to wrestle is the sympathetic Muslim pig in his closet.
Posted By: Judge Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/20/16 10:12 PM
That was totally uncalled for especially after Argo's excellent post.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/21/16 12:20 PM
Originally Posted By: craigd



Hiya Lar,
If I ever get invited over to your place, I know highly doubtful, will you be okay if I tramp around on your furniture exercising my first amendment right? Maybe we should remember who's house this is before we get the french to defend our right to free speech.


Craig, the way I read the First Amendment, I don't see that it gives you the right to tramp around on my furniture. That's going a bit beyond free speech. As far as remembering whose house it is, some people do tend to forget it's Dave's. And while you do indeed have free speech rights, he can toss you out if he doesn't like what you say. He's pretty good about letting people have their say, and I'll leave it to him to decide whether Ed should be here. Not up to anyone else to jump on Ed about gun rights etc when he's started a discussion on another topic. If Dave needs help, I'm sure he'll ask for it.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/21/16 12:52 PM
Originally Posted By: Judge
That was totally uncalled for especially after Argo's excellent post.


I didn't paint Larry's self portrait he did...
Posted By: craigd Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/21/16 03:43 PM
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
....Craig, the way I read the First Amendment, I don't see that it gives you the right to tramp around on my furniture. That's going a bit beyond free speech. As far as remembering whose house it is, some people do tend to forget it's Dave's. And while you do indeed have free speech rights, he can toss you out if he doesn't like what you say. He's pretty good about letting people have their say, and I'll leave it to him to decide whether Ed should be here. Not up to anyone else to jump on Ed about gun rights etc when he's started a discussion on another topic. If Dave needs help, I'm sure he'll ask for it.

Larry, this I can understand.

Don't worry about the furniture, I'd bring a little soap box and drop cloth. I am relieved that you really wouldn't fight to the death to defend keith's right, mine, ed's, or anyone else who chooses to post here. Have you noticed, ed bashes hunting here by giving game birds human and beloved pet qualities. And, piers is wrong about attaching emotional descriptives to hunting?
Posted By: keith Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/21/16 05:22 PM
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Not up to anyone else to jump on Ed about gun rights etc when he's started a discussion on another topic. If Dave needs help, I'm sure he'll ask for it.


Really?

Here's what the self-appointed Moderator Larry Clown had to say only 9 minutes before he said that, in a thread about the Upland Journal website being down:

Originally Posted By: L. Brown
David, the unfortunate truth is that sometimes, conservatives who claim to support gun ownership, gun rights and hunting manage to get conned by the Dark Side. Dittoheads who think Rush can do no wrong come up with all kinds of excuses why it was OK for him to do promos for HSUS's anti-dog fighting campaign. And he's a guy who regularly refers to "animal rights wackos".


What a pompous jerk. You can't make this shit up.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/21/16 09:59 PM
Originally Posted By: craigd
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
....Craig, the way I read the First Amendment, I don't see that it gives you the right to tramp around on my furniture. That's going a bit beyond free speech. As far as remembering whose house it is, some people do tend to forget it's Dave's. And while you do indeed have free speech rights, he can toss you out if he doesn't like what you say. He's pretty good about letting people have their say, and I'll leave it to him to decide whether Ed should be here. Not up to anyone else to jump on Ed about gun rights etc when he's started a discussion on another topic. If Dave needs help, I'm sure he'll ask for it.

Larry, this I can understand.

Don't worry about the furniture, I'd bring a little soap box and drop cloth. I am relieved that you really wouldn't fight to the death to defend keith's right, mine, ed's, or anyone else who chooses to post here. Have you noticed, ed bashes hunting here by giving game birds human and beloved pet qualities. And, piers is wrong about attaching emotional descriptives to hunting?


Well Craig, thanks for offering to clean the furniture. But it's my right to tell you to keep the heck off it in the first place. Same as it's Dave's right to control what's said here, if he chooses to do so. His sandbox. But since Dave hasn't chosen to go after Ed when he starts a post about a particular model of hammergun or about shotguns for sporting clays, why go from there to bringing up his past "sins" of not being 100% in someone's corner where gun rights are concerned? If Dave doesn't want him here, isn't it up to him to show him out the door? Why not start a topic about gun rights, or hunting rights or whatever, if that's what you want to discuss? And we can all pick our favorite saints or sinners from this BB . . . which happens to center on doubleguns, and which must attract people who have some interest in them. Doesn't necessarily mean they're the devil incarnate if they don't happen to be fans of handguns, AK's, AR's, etc--even though most of us might see a slippery slope if we start discriminating by the type of firearm of which we do or do not approve.
Posted By: craigd Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/21/16 10:56 PM
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
....Well Craig, thanks for offering to clean the furniture....

....since Dave hasn't chosen to go after Ed when he starts a post about a particular model of hammergun or about shotguns for sporting clays, why go from there to bringing up his past "sins" of not being 100% in someone's corner where gun rights are concerned? If Dave doesn't want him here, isn't it up to him to show him out the door? Why not start a topic about gun rights, or hunting rights or whatever, if that's what you want to discuss?....

....Doesn't necessarily mean they're the devil incarnate....

Larry, there you go again. Just kidding, I promise I didn't say I'd clean your furniture. I'm sure it's impeccable, probably fortunate for me, I'll never know.

You're awful hard on ed, are you thinking ban? I have no idea if ed's a sinner or not, but I seem to get the sense that he opens doors. Some we walk through, some we don't.

I'd be terrified to start a topic on gun right, you might call me a pig wacko ditto head. I really couldn't care less about my first amendment rights here. Maybe, you could appreciate how silly the hyperbole I was pointing out, about the lengths you'd take to ensure one could type what they please here, comes across.

I know you think of me as heathen, actually, I'd be suspicious if you didn't. Strange doors get opened on a SxS thread. Myself, I'm stuck thinking it's a over/under game, sounds like my loss.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/22/16 11:58 AM
Craig, I don't think of you--or Ed--as anything other than someone who posts on the Internet. I'm an old-fashioned type. I'll respond to what people say, but when it comes to forming a real opinion, I prefer to look people in the eye. My first real job was working for CIA--way pre Internet days, of course. But if I'm sizing someone up as a potential good guy or bad guy, I won't draw a conclusion until I've spent some time with them. I recall one guy with very liberal politics, which he regularly expressed on another BB. Met him at a shoot. Turned out that in spite of his politics, he was a real gun nut--and one heck of a shot. Not only that, he had good taste in reading: Bought half a dozen copies of my pheasant hunting book, back when I still had some for sale.

And I'd never call anyone a pig wacko dittohead just for starting a topic on gun rights. And I don't go to any lengths to ensure what anyone can type here. Since it's Dave's sandbox, that's his job. I only point out that they--and you, and everyone else--have the right to say whatever they want, whether or not some may choose to view it as anti-gun (in which case they're likely to take a fair amount of heat). But if they can stand the heat and Dave doesn't toss them out of the kitchen, then they have the same right to air their views as anyone else. And since this topic now carries the name of "trashed thread", they don't even need to worry about staying on topic.
Posted By: King Brown Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/22/16 01:12 PM
Measuring character by a person's politics is silly. What diminishes DoubleGun are those who use it to promote a political party: you're pro-gun if you vote one way and anti-gun if you vote the other---as if our sole abiding interest is guns.

Family and friendship, harmonious and productive relationships, high standards of human values, pursuit of happiness without intruding carelessly on the happiness of others are worth more than any gun to me. Guns fit nicely but they're not everything.
Posted By: keith Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/22/16 05:54 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
Measuring character by a person's politics is silly. What diminishes DoubleGun are those who use it to promote a political party: you're pro-gun if you vote one way and anti-gun if you vote the other---as if our sole abiding interest is guns.


It was only a matter of time before Larry's older brother King Brown gave us his two Canadian cents. If promoting a political party really diminishes this website King, why have you spent so much time here advancing the anti-gun views of the Liberal Left and supporting and defending the most extreme anti-gun Democrats? Here's but one example, even though you knew that Obama had pushed for more gun control and signed Executive Orders when he couldn't get his way in Congress:

Originally Posted By: King Brown
It's hardly mean-spirited to note that I'm an Obama supporter. I'm proud of it, apparent here as long as he's been around. He's anti-gun but has kept his legislative gun in his holster to position his party for '16.


You cannot honestly claim to be pro-gun when you consciously support and vote for a politician who has a 100% anti-gun voting record and who promises to enact greater restrictions and infringements upon the 2nd Amendment. Your post here is about as dishonest as an abortion doctor claiming to be pro-life.

It isn't just a blip or a one time thing with our Trolls like you and Ed. You have been posting anti-gun, anti-lead, anti-2ndAmendment, and anti-NRA rhetoric here for at least 10 years. It is only recently that I began collecting examples so that you can't run away from your own words and pretend to be something that you are not. Here's a few to refresh your memory...

Originally Posted By: King Brown
The Court departed from the original understanding of the Second. The NRA and other groups rejected the original interpretation. Even as late as 1991, the jurist Burger appointed by Nixon said "the Second Amendment has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word 'fraud,' on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime." In 2008, in the District of Columbia v. Heller, what Burger said was fraud was accepted by the court. Interesting stuff.


Originally Posted By: King Brown
Democracies make choices. Americans accept mass murder to defend an individual right to bear arms in the name of personal freedom.


Originally Posted By: King Brown
The roots I'm comfortable with are the radical---"to get to the root of"---and that's Jesus's teaching. The shame is how far the Christian community has drifted from it. We act irrationally from fear when the Christian message is to fear not, even death itself.We call ourselves Christian nations and stockpile ammunition, need concealed carry to protect ourselves and a regulated militia without regulations to protect us from our own governments, abandoning Jesus's teaching to defend it.


Originally Posted By: King Brown
The Second is what originalists and others want it to be, the former seeing any variances as infringements. So it goes and ever will be. It is not inviolable and inalienable as some members want all of us to believe.


Originally Posted By: King Brown
Gun control doesn't work? I believe gun control works reasonably generally in Canada, providing a less violent society compared to some others, in good part because of our different culture.


Originally Posted By: King Brown
I'd feel better about 2nd protection if our side stopped shooting itself in the foot with the makes-no-difference between 10 and larger magazines, cross-messaging of the worst kind. The antis are saying if the difference is 6-8 seconds what's the problem of excluding the 10-plus?


You see King, my opinion that you and Ed are anti-gun Trolls is based upon your own words. This is but a fraction of what you have posted here... many times going off-topic to do it. Few people have taken threads off-topic more than you King... without a peep from your little brother and self-appointed Moderator, Larry Clown.

Originally Posted By: King Brown
Dimensions of character---and culpability---are implied in the words we use.


So what do we make of it when you say such things, and then try to deny your own words?

Originally Posted By: King Brown
....He promised a day or so ago he was holding back some juicy quotes to prove I'm anti-gun, a common ploy of persons on the margins looking for attention....


Originally Posted By: King Brown
C'mon, Craig, let's not get off on tangents....

....I asked for evidence of his accuracy, integrity and truthfulness---and received none. Now I'm asking members to help him or produce evidence that I'm anti-gun. No distractions, please. Just the evidence.


And just how many times does craigd and others have to also provide you with evidence of your anti-2nd Amendment rhetoric???

Originally Posted By: craigd
Originally Posted By: King Brown
You're sounding like the little fella, Craig. Where did I demonize the NRA, please?....

Pound for pound, I felt the need to trim a bunch-o-stuff off of this one too. You may not be aware of it, but I have a scale sitting next to my comp, more of a balance beam.

In this small example, I threw the pro gun dem reality on one side and the less than flattering NRA comments on the other, and guess what? Broke my scale, it took a distinctive anti NRA bent.


How many times can you get caught with the smoking gun in your hands and still claim that you are pro-gun? Even your fellow Troll Ed was finally able to admit it shortly before Misfires was closed down.

Originally Posted By: ed good
YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES,,,

KING BROWN IS AN ANTIGUNNER...

NOW WILL YOU LEAVE IT ALONE?


Anti-gun birds of a feather flock together.
Posted By: ed good Re: SXS SPORTIN CLAYS GUNS - 04/22/16 09:35 PM
case anyone other than keet missed the significance of these words the first time, here they are again:

"Family and friendship, harmonious and productive relationships, high standards of human values, pursuit of happiness without intruding carelessly on the happiness of others are worth more than any gun to me. Guns fit nicely but they're not everything."
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