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Posted By: Buzz Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/12/16 11:53 AM
I bought a flat of these British shells in 1 oz loads. I have no idea what their pressures are but they seemed very soft. About $7/box. Wish I could find some for small bores.
Posted By: LeFusil Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/12/16 12:38 PM
Where'd you get them?
Posted By: Hoof Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/12/16 12:49 PM
That was my first question also. A quick google search found this;
Caledonian
The shells they have listed as 1200 FPS don't show up on Caledonians website though?
CHAZ
Posted By: lagopus Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/12/16 12:57 PM
Been around for a while in the U.K. but not widely stocked. Should have pressures conforming to CIP rules and safe in guns that are suitable proof tested for that specific cartridge. This is their U.K. website which may give further information. http://www.caledoniancc.com/ Lagopus.....
Posted By: Buzz Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/12/16 01:12 PM
Jefferson gun club, Louisville
Posted By: jbrooster Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/12/16 02:47 PM
This site was posted on the Upland Journal boards a couple days ago. I have no personal experience with them, but I did notice that they have one 20 gauge load, and claim to be expanding their offerings in the future.

http://www.shellsrusllc.com/caledonian.html
Posted By: PALUNC Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/12/16 05:40 PM
I purchased several flats of these in 1oz and 7/8oz. I have shot them in all three of my English Sidelocks. I really like the 7/8oz as they are pretty light shooting in my 6lb. 4oz Atkin.
There is a guy in Florida who is importing these shells and ships directly to your back door for $73.50 a flat. He also has 3/4oz as well. The last time I talked to him he was going to be having some in the smaller gauges.
So yes they are fantastic shells, in fact I believe Phil Blurt in the UK shoots them regularly at grouse.
Posted By: PALUNC Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/12/16 05:42 PM
Oh the 7/8oz is like 1180 or 1190 FPS so they are great in your vintage doubles.
Posted By: Dave in Maine Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/12/16 07:39 PM
Originally Posted By: PALUNC
I purchased several flats of these in 1oz and 7/8oz. I have shot them in all three of my English Sidelocks. I really like the 7/8oz as they are pretty light shooting in my 6lb. 4oz Atkin.
There is a guy in Florida who is importing these shells and ships directly to your back door for $73.50 a flat. He also has 3/4oz as well. The last time I talked to him he was going to be having some in the smaller gauges.
So yes they are fantastic shells, in fact I believe Phil Blurt in the UK shoots them regularly at grouse.

There are a lot of "guys in Florida" - any idea which one it is?

Also, and not to divert too far, Sellier & Bellot lists paper-hulled short (65-67mm) shells in 12, 16 and 20 ga (felt wads) as among those they load and it appears they are sold in Europe. OTOH, their US offerings are sparse to say the best. Any idea (beyond "thin market") why we can't get them in the States?
Posted By: Jim Pettengill Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/12/16 07:51 PM
The "Guy" is Carl Emilson, On Point Marketing, 561-373-8192. We bought a pallet of the Caledonian 24 gm International trap loads, and they are marked 2 1/2" but are about 2 11/16". They worked really well for bunker trap, and I guess you could shoot them in 2 1/2" guns, as they are marked 2 1/2, but they are a bit longer.
Posted By: Dave in Maine Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/12/16 07:53 PM
Thanks!
Posted By: James M Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/12/16 10:04 PM
Bottom line:
I haven't seen any pressures quoted so can anyone say for sure these are ok in Damascus guns?
Jim
Posted By: L. Brown Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/13/16 11:11 AM
If they're British and CIP-approved for standard proof guns, they should be OK in Damascus in terms of pressure. However, higher velocity target loads might generate more recoil than you want.

I just picked up a couple flats of Rio 7/8 oz, 1200 fps. Made in Spain, carrying the CIP logo. I'm going to see how they work in a 6# Brit 12 today. My 7/8 oz reloads are in the 11-1150 range. But my usual target gun is heavier, and I expect they'd be fine in that gun.
Posted By: Buzz Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/13/16 02:43 PM
I shot a couple of boxes of the 1 oz, 1200 fps Caledonians through my Damascus Charles Lancaster wristbreaker and the gun did not blow up. I was pleasantly surprised at how light the recoil was.
Posted By: lagopus Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/13/16 03:31 PM
Dave in Maine, I just had a look at the Sellior & Bellot website; http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/en/ They are an old company and produce a huge range. Not a lot of that range gets to the U.K. but I have been using their stuff for years. The used to do a 7/8th. ounce 2 1/2 " paper roll crimp 6 1/2 shot felt wad load called the Practice & Vermin cartridge. I still have a few boxes left and they have taken a heap of rabbits over the years. Pity they still don't do them. They shot as sweet as a nut. Lagopus....
Posted By: DLH Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/13/16 04:26 PM
Slightly off subject but should be noted:

Here is the pressure information given to me by RST for 12 bore 2.5" loads:

Maxi-Lite, 1 oz. shot: 5700 PSI
Falcon Lite, 7/8 oz. shot: 5400 PSI
Ultra Lite, 3/4 oz. shot: 4400 PSI

Given the RST pressures and load variances, I would tend to choose these loads over other shells that "should" be ok.
Posted By: Buzz Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/13/16 05:31 PM
I can't argue with you there, I think RST shells are great too. However, they cost $10.50-$13.50/box which is significantly more than $7/box for these Scottish made shells (Caledonian).
Posted By: DLH Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/14/16 03:58 AM
Yes, the price is good for the caledonians. I'd really like to see the pressure information for them. Otherwise, I'd rather buy the RSTs than a new set of barrels.
Posted By: keith Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/14/16 07:39 AM
buzz, have you compared shot patterns of the Caledonians vs. other shells? The shells that are shown sectioned on their website do not have plastic wads with shotcups. I'm thinking they might give a more open pattern that could be useful in guns with tighter chokes. The $3.50 to $6.50 per box savings vs. RST's would quickly cover the cost of sending a few to Tom Armbrust for pressure testing. Thanks for the info.
Posted By: PALUNC Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/14/16 11:50 AM
They shoot fine in my Purdey and Atkin and Boss. I have used them in all three. Now I shoot the 7/8oz load. The 3/4oz load is even better.
Posted By: DLH Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 04/14/16 02:11 PM
Gentlemen:

I just sent Caledonian an email asking for pressure data. I'll share any response on this board.

If they don't respond, I think it would be a good idea to ask Mr. Armbrust to do a pressure test.
Posted By: Buzz Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 05/18/16 09:06 PM
I heard back from Trustach, the UK distributor of these shells. They told me the Caledonian 'Club' shells are 7000 psi.
Posted By: keith Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 05/18/16 09:13 PM
Thanks a million for that buzz. I think you just saved a lot of guys here a lot of money.
Posted By: old colonel Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 05/18/16 11:20 PM
Good data, thank you
Posted By: Hoof Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 05/18/16 11:26 PM
I have a stupid follow up. The link that I posted to the place in the US selling them lists from 3/4 ounce to 1 1/18 ounce loads (at different velocities). Should the 7k figure be considered correct for all loads in the "club" line?
CHAZ
Posted By: Buzz Re: Caledonian 12 ga 2 1/2" shells - 05/18/16 11:38 PM
I don't know. I specifically asked about the 1 ounce loads. If you intend to shoot them, you may want to send some off for pressure testing, to be sure.
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