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Posted By: muchatrucha To stain or not to stain... - 04/28/16 02:45 PM
I have had SKB (of the DG board) recently reproduce a walnut stock for an American SXS. The wood is highly figured (feather crotch) in the butt and straight grained through the wrist.
My question is: Should I stain (dye stain) the wood or simply use my oil finish to bring out the grain?
What do most of you do?
Posted By: Gunter Re: To stain or not to stain... - 04/28/16 02:53 PM
I only ever stain an inferiour wood (if neccessary)
if you have a proper walnut stock, any good stock oil finish will be the best solution.
Best thing to do, if you're not certain, is to try on a spare piece of similar walnut and see what it looks like after staining and oiling

Best regards from England
Gunter
Posted By: SKB Re: To stain or not to stain... - 04/28/16 02:55 PM
That stick of wood will darken up nicely and give you a nice red tone without adding stain is my feeling. I usually add alkenet root to my finish but I would go very carefully with your piece of wood. Stain could cause it to end up too dark. This is a Sterlingworth I stocked for a client last year. The wood is very similar to yours and has no stain or root added to the finish.

Posted By: Ithaca5E Re: To stain or not to stain... - 04/28/16 03:43 PM
I think actual stains are tricky and probably would not try it on a nice piece of wood. That said, I think there are few gunstocks that would not benefit from some sort of help. Colored shellacs used as filler and tinted oils (e.g. Pilkington) are good at raising contrast. One thing I tried recently was Herter's recreation of the Winchester reddish-brown; it has a filler in it and I was expecting a somewhat murky finish. I was surprised at the nice, clear contrast and color that it imparted to a piece of Claro - might go with the Herters.

Others have suggested trying several options. on scraps. Unless you already have a particular go-to finish, that's good advice.
Posted By: Geo. Newbern Re: To stain or not to stain... - 04/28/16 03:49 PM
I suggest cheap wood and Mark Larson...Geo
Posted By: wingshooter16 Re: To stain or not to stain... - 04/28/16 04:53 PM
Back in the late 70's when I was an apprentice carpenter, I talked the superintendent ( a gifted woodworker) into helping me build a grandfather clock. When it came time for finishing, he asked me if I wanted just the finish (in this case, nitrocellulose lacquer) or stained and then lacquered. I didn't hesitate with my response: "Oh of course, lacquer only." He then asked if he could stain one sample and compare it to a lacquer only piece. I agreed, and hands down, the proper stain, judiciously applied, greatly enhanced the color and figure of the walnut.

I'm with Gunter- you have nothing to lose by staining a small sample, perhaps one of the off cuts from the stock work.


Mike
Posted By: B. Dudley Re: To stain or not to stain... - 04/28/16 05:06 PM
The natural color of the wood is ALWAYS the best way to go.
Unless a repair is needing to be blended or sap wood or aomething of the sort, there is no good reason to use stain.

The type of finishes used can have a real effect on the color of the wood.
Posted By: bbman3 Re: To stain or not to stain... - 04/28/16 07:49 PM
I like to stain plain walnut a reddish color, beautiful stock SKB. Bobby
Posted By: damascus Re: To stain or not to stain... - 04/28/16 09:02 PM
Alkanet with Walnut can if applied properly produce's a wood finish looking far better than just applying a straight finish. Walnut Alkanet and an oil finish can produces a finish that improves the wood's looks far above what you would expect.
Posted By: keith Re: To stain or not to stain... - 04/29/16 06:23 AM
Originally Posted By: B. Dudley
The type of finishes used can have a real effect on the color of the wood.


This statement by Brian Dudley may be the most important in the entire conversation. Take a bunch of pieces of planed and sanded walnut, and apply as many natural or untinted wood finishes to each piece as you have on hand. I did this several years ago as an experiment using clear polyurethane, spar varnish, Minwax and Laurel Mountain oil modified urethanes, Watco Danish Oil, Waterlox tung oil, Linspeed, and several other finishes. You will be amazed at the difference in the finished appearance on the same piece of wood. There will also be a difference with different species of walnut, and even with different grain or porosity within the same species. The earlier advice to use a test sample of the same wood with your choice of finish and/or stain is the best way to avoid disappointment or do-overs.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: To stain or not to stain... - 04/29/16 08:14 AM
I have never hired anyone to stock a gun for me, but have always done it myself. Wood scraps off the blank you're using are invaluable in determining whether or not any stain is needed. Walnut will often darken up nicely, as in the photo above by SKB. I don't usually want it much darker than that. But, sometimes you need to match the forend, or vice-versa, when restocking and retaining either of the aforementioned. I am doing that right now to a Sterlingworth ejector gun. It required four coats of dark walnut, with a little even added to the old forend wood, to get the two pieces of wood to look like they came from the same tree. But, they do now.

I'd never leave maple as is. Many do, but I do not care for blond wood on a gun. Certain stains really make curly maple pop.

SRH
Posted By: B. Dudley Re: To stain or not to stain... - 04/29/16 11:22 AM
Exactly Keith.
If you use a clear Urethane that sits on top of the wood, you get a loght color that does little to help the figure in the wood. There is no finish that does less for color and figure than Urethanes. But it sure is tough. TruOil, being a clear heavier finish will also give you a lighter color, but help the figure more.

A deep penetrating ground coat will do the best for deepening color and bringing out the figure. I use Clear Danish oil a lot as a ground coat. And it really does darken the wood a LOT. Permalyn sealer is nice. But does not darken as much.

Some finishes have some color to them and this gives the wood some color. I use a lot of Amber Shellac and Timberluxe. Shellac is a correct old style finish for American guns that gives the wood a redish orange hue. Timberluxe gives a reddish tint and really pulls the light into the wood and makes the figure pop.

Different sorts of jobs call for different thpes of finishes.

When trying to match a forend or a butt, checking the blank with alcohol is always a good indication at the start of what i am dealing with.
If i am restocking the butt and leaving the forend, i usually still refinish and point ip the forend checkering as to bring everything together. Unless the forend finish is in great shape the start with.
Posted By: Demonwolf444 Re: To stain or not to stain... - 04/29/16 03:30 PM
In my opinion I have never been satisfied with any stain on walnut ( other than alkanet ) with one exception.

Tried all sorts of commercial stains but I find on plain wood it just gives the appearance of being a bit "flat".


Very blonde wood benefits usually from alkanet oil pre treatment, and most woods generally benefit from alkanet, some woods like that crotch piece pictured could be obscured by an alkanet pre treatment and you lose some definition in the figure.

The only "stain" other than the afore mentioned alkanet root oil, I have used is basically a strong warm coffee mixture applied several times to the stock allowed to dry and rubbed back with fine paper. I used this technique on a Winchester 101 which had a flame of heart wood running through it with the rest being white wood with a clear definition between the two areas, it just darkened up the light wood a touch and helped bring out the fine ripples which were previously invisible, it was never going to be an amazing bit of wood but it bought out the best of what was there.
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