Every now and then, a nice, new-in-the-box 1964 vintage V19 28 gauge falls in your lap. A gun like this one:



V action glory shot:



I'm pretty sure that if you rang the good folks at Stoeger up in that era, discussed your needs, and sent them payment in full, they would have seen that you got exactly what you wanted. I'm also pretty sure very few Americans did that. They just bought what Stoeger had on the shelf. Roger Barlow did the special order thing with a few of his Darnes. So did John Amber. But, they were Roger and John.

The 1965 shooters bible had the specs on the Darne guns, and stated the the V19 "Quail Hunter Supreme" (what a corny name) came fitted with a Darne sling. But, this one didn't. I like a Darne sling, a lot. No clanky swivels, unobtrusive, handy if you need your hands free when working the dog, getting a drink, or snapping a photo. Problem is, you just don't run down to Wal Mart to get one.

In just a few weeks, this one will be on US soil. Said V19 will be fitted with the option, and a new, never used, original Darne buttplate, to replace the shrunken original:







I can hardly wait. Every Darne needs a sling.


Best,
Ted

Nice score, Ted! I'm a sling guy myself.

Great Darne!!!
My guns with sling studs have have a sling on. I too find it useful.
BillK

This is cool:




These buttplates were an organic product, made with natural rubber, horse hooves, and Lord knows what else. They were in limited supply last time I was in St. Etienne, and I managed to snag one at the factory-I mean, who knows when you will need a new, original spec Darne buttplate? Another item you can't just get at Wally World.

There are ureathane replacements available, but, I like the styrations of different color that ran through the originals. Every one is as unique as a fingerprint.

The factory doesn't even have them anymore. Bummer.

Best,
Ted

I had one with the spring steel top I bought from Galazan....worked great until one day the top popped loose and my gun almost hit the ground. I prefer one with leather loops on each end.

I had a guy custom make these.

After seeing Ted's posts I put a sling on my Ithaca, an old Uncle Mike's deer hide sling. Its just easier to carry the decoys and everything else when you have your shotgun slung over your shoulder.

Very nice score, Ted. Between that and the Richland/Prandelli & Gasperini, you've been doing well lately.

As you know, the French like slings on shotguns. So do I, on open country birds. Their influence was quite strong in Morocco. The one picture I wish I'd taken: Moroccan hunter putting along down the road on his moped, shotgun slung across his back. Wife seated behind him, facing backwards, holding a box which was the carrier for their bird dog.

If you hunt chukars, you NEED a sling so you can hold onto the mountain with both hands (in my case, a medevac helicopter would be handy too).

I saw and heard a covey of "rock partridges" when I was in Croatia a few weeks ago. Are they the same as Red-Legged Partridges? (Croatia has partridge hunting fools just like us!).

that is because of their automatic response to drop whatever firearm they may be carrying and raise their hands whenever someone raises their voice.....the sling has saved many a French SxS from unnecessary damage, so much so that they even built some SxSs with the sling built right in.....

You speak from experience Mike A! Perhaps hunted the same spots from your U of Idaho days.

Hunted with a friend in HS who's dad kept a boat in Clarkston. On one trip (I wasn't along), one of his dad's friends did happen to fall off a ledge and needed to be medevac'd out! Sounded like he had some serious injuries.

In that instance a sling wouldn't have helped much, as I was told he was swinging on an over head chukar while standing on a narrow ledge and lost his footing.

"Build". That sling is refered to as the "Bretelle Automatic". It is still possible to get one to this day. I ordered a new 16 gauge R11, for a good friend, that was reviewed in Shooting Sportsman by Vic Venters, that was equipped with that sling.

I never cared for it, as the sling is a bit narrow, and less supportive of the weight of the gun as a regular sling. OK in a pinch, I guess, but, I much prefer the Bretelle Darne.

There are a lot of pre war Darnes floating around with the fitting in the stock, but, the sling missing in action. That is a shame.

Best,
Ted

You probably missed these two, Larry. A big, 28" heavy barreled 12 and a wisp of a 20 gauge, both late 1940s vintage guns, both in near unused condition. I have to bend a trigger on the 20, and I am considering having the 12 restocked to match my other 12. The big 12 has too much drop and cast off for me to deal with. That work would be done in France.



I've had the 28 for a while, actually.

I really don't need any more guns.

Best,
Ted

Ted:

What are you going to use for Grousmas this year, a 20 or a 28 (or both)?

Well, still gotta' get through the 4th of July with all ten fingers, but, as a quick rule of thumb, I only bring a single gauge of gun to hunt with on a trip like that. I did bring my model 17 for you to see the first year, but, I didn't bring any ammunition for it, IIRC.
Either the Darne 12 with the sling, or the Darne 20 from last year. Thats my guess, at this point.


Best,
Ted

Cool stuff Ted!

I got a progress report from Geoffroy, today:


The original 60s vintage plastic buttplate I hoped to use had internal cracks that became apparent when it was warmed up to be fitted. My options were horn, ebony, walnut or a pad, pretty much what was available at the factory, back in the day, although rosewood was an option back then too. I went with checkered ebony. Geoffroy will retouch the engraving on the screws before he sends it back.

This is the fitting for the sling, fitted up in the stock. The screw has to be contoured, timed, and then it has to be hardened, and tempered to a straw color. The stock was not refinished:



Side view of the ebony. The stock was not cut:



I expect it in a week or two. Looks good, from here.

Best,
Ted

Genius!!!
"Never fired and only dropped once..."
CHAZ

Ted, it is looking great!
Not all French "dropped" guns and raised their hands. 1.15 million Frenchmen were killed in combat during the 4 years WWI was fought on or near their soil. When the Germans advanced on Paris, French soldiers were taken to the front in taxi-cabs and stalled the German advance. Yes, the Doughboys helped turn the tide and made the difference, but the suffering in deaths by the French combatants was staggering compared with the deaths of 53,000 Americans. Growing up in the shadow of WWII, I always heard the dropped once and never fired reference attributed to the Italian Army. That and their tanks had one speed forward and 4 in reverse. Gil

I don't remember who made them, but when Gaylan's Sporting Goods were in business one could find the very thing there. While not particularly comfortable when gun carried is heavier the rubbery strip prevents sling from shifting and when not in use it could be put away into larger coat pocket.

Yes, Manufrance is known for retractable butt stock sling. I have seen something similar on American made .22 rifle made for Sears or Montgomery ward. I suspect the gun was made by Stevens. I remember playing with one. My friend thought it was neat and actually bought the gun because of that retractable sling.

Look at what they were facing also in WW2. We like to make fun of them but if you study that war there wasn't an army on the planet that could stop the German army in 1939, 1940 or 1941. It was only attrition and shear exhaustion that eventually stopped them.

Truth told the Italians are worse than the French yet nobody makes fun of their military. Soviet Union could not cope well with Germany due to thinning out of leadership ranks by Stalin. If Hitler could get his military on US soil in 1939 it would take at least few months for him to win. It is very large country to take.

History revision is a guessing game. Most of the French troop for WWII were never born. French birth rates have been much lower than other European countries dating back to before WWI. Troops in WWII would have been born mostly 1910-1929/30. The French lacked sheer male numbers. Their fortification line was one hope to offset that short coming. But every military is better at refitting the last war in hind sight than correctly predicting the next one. Had the German gone to a trench warfare plan instead of a war of movement the French were well equipped to withstand the Germans for a very long time. But the French never got the email that the Germans were not going to play that game.

Because the gun went to Geoffroy, and, Geoffroy is, well, Geoffroy, the fitting for the sling in the stock now looks like this:



Nice little piece of work. He did a nice job and worked to match the engraving on the triggerguard:




Best,
Ted

It does not matter what you can win militarily if you can not hold what you took.
Let us finish this conversation on the point that we will not be defeated militarily. Nobody is going to invade us militarily, but we will be defeated economically. The truth is we should have demilitarized after the fall of the Soviet Union and secured our borders after there was amnesty for 3 million or 3.5 million. Sadly we are now on our way to financial collapse. Now let us get back to some of the best game guns ever made French guns.

Wow! Typical Geoffroy. Gil

It is a sad thing, but, putting together all the pieces to pull off getting a bretelle Darne sling fitted to a 28 gauge Darne is extremely difficult from this point in time.
Contacts in France, or, someone who visits regularly, and has connections to the St. Etienne gun industry, and the ability to source new and used components, and fit it all up to the gun. Being a 28 gauge made this that much tougher.
I'm going to guess this won't be happening again, but, if you are thinking of doing the same, Geoffroy is your man. Fair warning, he might say no, depending on what you have.
You guys with a Darne 12, with the fitting in the stock, but, no sling, I'm going to suggest the time to try is right now.

Best,
Ted

Jag, the American .22 rifle with the retractable sling was a High Standard semi-auto. I bought one to use the sling on my Manufrance Ideal. Appears to be the same mechanism but has a red nylon sling rather than leather. The .22 is a good gun and worked out better than the sling did...Geo

most darnes need a sling...probably could also use a good plaster cast also ....

I wasn't trying to offend anyone. No nation that goes to war is a nation of cowards.

Of course there is also this;


CHAZ

Anyone who makes comments about the lack of valor on the part of the French is simply uninformed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquis_(World_War_II)

I like the part where the Germans made a point to surrender to allied troops, as most of the Maquis had no use for prisoners....

Ignorance, correctable, stupidity, forever.


Best,
Ted

Ain't that the truth.

My wife is French; both boys are dual citizens. Over the years they've been subjected to a great deal of bullying (they know how to deal with that) and a large measure of ignorant harassment from idiots. And the comments above about the French are about as stupid as one can get...and they cheapen this board, It makes you wonder if the posters are teenagers, if they ever went to war themselves or if they ever studied history.

By the way, if it weren't for Lafayette and the French Army/Navy, America would never have been a country. And let's talk about Verdun, Austerlitz.

About a mile or two from where I sit the second bloodiest battle in the Revolution was fought in 1779. The Siege of Savannah was a failed attempt to oust the British from Savannah by the Whigs (American independence fighters) and French forces led by d�Estaing. The attack consisted of French subjects from what is now Haiti, France and Arthur Dillon�s �Wild Geese�, Irish Jacobites who fled Ireland to France. The British, aided by Hessians and Loyalists, defeated the Revolutionary forces, killing more than 1100 men including the Pole Casimir Pulaski, the father of the American Calvary. 650 French were killed. Not only was French active participation crucial to the success of the Revolution, but their passive presence in the Caribbean kept British forces from concentrating forces in the colonies for fear that the French would seize the British possessions in the Caribbean.

Are we all that easily offended?
I will try to be more PC and insure any stereotypical humor is historically accurate.
Wiki
CHAZ

Yea, but we still laugh anyway!!!

You have to admit the jokes are kind of funny!!!

Fitting adusted, hardened and installed in the stock:



Much better than a clanky old swivel, although, I use those also. This is just so much more beautiful. And quiet.
I don't remember seeing one on a gun that was engraved, however. Geoffroy does nice work. Glad he suggested it.

Best,
Ted

Classic Ted, and just what that gun deserves.

Beautiful gun, Ted. I need a Darne sling for my lowly Model 10 but so far haven't been able to locate one.

I have a sling of this type which is fine for hiking in to the turkey Woods or a duck blind and then removing it, but no way I would want to shoot w/i it on. Also works great for hauling a big tom out over my shoulder. I like Ted's type of sling for something where shooting with the sling still on might be involved.

Brent, I have a sling just like that one. Once I put it back on the gun and stood up to see a gobbler standing 20 feet away. I took the shot with the sling on and have no idea where the shot went, but the turkey ran off...Geo

The whole point of the Darne sling is it is unobtrusive. Because the sling is free to move up and down the length of the barrels, and is not fixed by a hard attachment point on the barrel, like a sling swivel, it works very well in brushy conditions and doesn't snag on anything, or, at least snags on fewer things than my hat does.
It is easily removed, as well, and curls up in a pocket on the vest. I do, however, just leave them in place. There are guys who believe it is blasphemy that a sling can be used on a gun in a grouse woods, but, I do it, regularly, with my little 12.
The 25 year old guy I was didn't really need a sling on his Darne, and my first 20 gauge, didn't have one. But, the 55 year old me sure appreciates having one. My big 12 Darne is going to be restocked next year, and has swivels on it, which, I will retain and use a conventional sling. Even a regular sling is a benefit on a long slog anywhere in western MN or SD.
Gene, contact Geoffroy Gournet if you are still looking. I don't recall if your gun has the fitting installed, or, not, and if it doesn't, It would be an expensive endeavor to have it done. I won't have it done on my 20 gauge R10, but, that is a light gun to begin with.


Best,
Ted

I called Gournet yesterday. He has no slings. I ordered a regular 3/4" sling from eBay. Not authentic, but it'll have to do.

Gene,
Does your gun have sling swivels? Jeff's Outfitters has 3/4" and 1" slings on the shelf. I've heard good reports about the quality.
I think I remember you saying your gun was a12 gauge R10. If it has the little oval fitting in the stock for the Bretelle Darne, it is a rare bird-few people ordered that sling for that grade of gun. Geoffroy would NOT have a spare or inventory on the shelf. But, he goes to France in the spring, and could likely bring one back. As I warned, he may have had enough of this, as sources for the components are drying up, along with the gun industry in St. Etienne. I can't really imagine what it would take to get a bretelle automatique on a gun that was here, in the US at this time, but, I'm guessing close to impossible. Make no mistake, St. Etienne as a gunmaking center is in decline.
The recent immigrants aren't big on hunting the local pigs, you could say.
The easiest would be the loop sling, truly uneffective while hunting, but, useful for carrying. The next would be having sling swivels fitted, better, in my opinion, but, not a bretelle Darne.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

Best,
Ted

It's a 20 ga. R 10 and has swivels on it on studs, not the ones hidden in the stock.

Sounds like you are money to the good to me-go to Jeff's website and have at it.


Best,
Ted

Gene, those at Jeff's outfitters look befitting of your gun. While discussing pigs, here's what the practical pig would suggest: The Claw series of slings. While canvas and leather slings are more in keeping with the history and style of your gun, they tend to slip, at least on my shoulder, requiring constant movement of the gun. The Claw stays put--ugly in comparison to leather and canvas, but because of the rubberiized construction, stays put, and because of width, more comfortable. Cost is far less, too. Gil

I bought a sling from Jeff's for my 16 gauge Halifax chukar gun. It works like a dream, is of high quality, and best of all priced right.

Dustin,
Were those chuckars revenge or sport kills or a combination of the two?
BTW, do you have South Georgia connections or are tailate photos de rigeur in Utah, too? ;}
Gil

Tailgate? That's what we call a kitchen table in Utah. :-)
All of these chuks were taken at around 6800 ft. All sport, no revenge. If the birds beat me, good for them. I clock out and head home, I clock back in when my legs quit hurting and the cycle starts over.

Dustin is one of the guys I got the report of good quality from. That sling looks good on that Halifax.

Good to see you posting, Dustin.


Best,
Ted

I got the gun back from Geoffroy, today:





The checkered ebony buttplate and the sling look like they grew there. I couldn't ask for better work.

It took a year or so, from discussion with Geoffroy about finding the parts, him getting back to France, and gun coming home. Expensive, but, I'm glad I did it.


Best,
Ted

I have a sling for my doubles that slips over the barrel, too, but I only use it for duck hunting where I have to wade in and carry a deke bag. I can't shoot with it on, though. The loop over the rib drives me nuts when I look down it. Once I get where I'm going I pull it off. I might be able to shoot with one that was open at the top so I could see the rib "between" the sides of it, like yours, Ted. My fingers don't bother me shooting when I wrap them up around the barrels on each side of my little doubles. Not much difference.

Here it is on my big HE Fox:



SRH

I've shot with mine on numerous times...

I think it's more of a psychological thing than an actual interference. Being midway my line of sight is above it and it doesn't interfere with me seeing the bead in my secondary vision.

It may be more psychological, jOe. I should try shooting some clays with it sometime just to see. No trouble for me to pull it off, though.

All my best, SRH

I have two Darnes equipped with the bretelle Darne. Another Darne has typical sling swivels, a good thing, as it is a heavy (heavy for a Darne, anyway) 12 gauge R10, with 28" barrels with mod and full chokes, that I speculate was laid out with at least consideration for waterfowling in Europe, when it was built. Sling swivels were the cheapest option for a sling on a Darne, and a lot of people just went with them. Last Darne 20 has no sling. Good for trips like grousemas, where Lloyd and I do a fair amount of driving from spot to spot.
All have a place.
I have a pump 12 that has a sling, but, it has quick detach swivels, so the sling pops right off. I've never waterfowled with it, but, friends have. I suspect waterfowling with a gun without a sling would be a lot more work than with a gun so equipped.
Two deer rifles, of a type usually considered for shorter range brush work, left to me from my Father's estate are graced with slings and his preferred Redfield 1.5-6 optics, in respect to his advancing years. I'm not a deer hunter, so the Marlin 30-30 and the Ruger .44 auto carbine haven't been fired in decades.
But, a sling makes them better, of this, I'm sure. Pretty sure that is the case with Stan's big Fox, when hunting ducks, also.
If a between-the-wars name English gun falls into my lap, I won't be looking for a sling for it. Not every gun needs one. But, some of the hunting I do is made better with a method to keep my hands free for a moment or two, and a sling allows for that.



An image just for jOe, 'cause he likes these guns so much.

Best,
Ted

jOe'few'shus say

Women tote their guns on their back get less shots....

If I don't have to carry dekes into a hole I don't use a sling. But, when I'm wading with a big bag of them on my back, or floating as I wade, I want my other hand free to help steady myself if I start to trip or stumble. I hunt some bad places around here, with all sorts of things on the bottom waiting to trip you, or "float your hat", as can be the case with gator holes or old stump holes, or beaver runs.

SRH

If the gun is slung, I've made a conscious decision I'm not taking shots at that moment. Another reason for it being slung is I already have a brace hanging, and I'm on the way back to the truck.

It ain't a war.


Best,
Ted

I thought I would resurrect Ted's Thread with a new sling on a Darne of my own. I contacted Geoffroy Gournet and he had one Darne Bratelle Sling left in stock for a 12 gauge. So my R10 12 gauge was sent off and in a few weeks came back installed, ready to go. It is really a nice design for an easy to remove sling if the situation calls for it.

Slick bird gun. How is it choked? Can’t tell for sure but it sure seems like the safety is still on the left.

WLM has one on their website that appears to be its twin. But, because it is at WLM, it is priced about double what it is worth.

I’ll check back in five years or so, should still be there.

Best,
Ted

Ted,
The R10 is choked .003 in the right barrel and .010 in the left barrel and weights 6lbs 4oz. The chokes and weight make it a great upland gun. The safety is on the left side. I purchased this gun from a gentlemen in Illinois who had an ad in Double Gun Journal about 4 years back. I paid as I recalled about half of what WLM wants for there R10. The gentleman still has a couple of rough 16 Darnes as far as I know. One that I remember was a halifax grade. One was a R10 that had the receiver blued that made me cautious. At least one had a straight English stock as I remember. He wanted to much for them and we never made a deal.

Some folks don't like slings on upland guns, particularly for woodcock, but I've never met a cover that couldn't be resolved with a flood of obscenities and Dan's Briar Gear. Here's my R-10 20 ga. with a removable gamekeepers sling from Galazan. I haven't see it listed in the catalog in the past few years. The front is secured by a slide on malleable metal clamp covered with leather and has an open view over the rib. Gil

Not a huge loss, that R10 is going to cover most of the bases for bird hunting in the 5 state area. Mine did. Maybe not pass shooting ducks, but, that gives you an excuse to own a pump gun.

40 years ago, you could find R10s like that for $750-1K, closer to $750, most of the time. The prices on those guns rose and then fell with the popularity of Michael McIntosh’s writing, even though he didn’t have a bunch to say about them. They got close to $2K, and then, he died. Prices have settled back a bit. His writing life was a line graph for the rise and decline of working double guns we see today.
I would have called yours right around $1500, when you bought it, and, today. I tried, hard, to avoid used guns, when I was importing from France, for a bunch of different reasons, but, mid 1990s to about 2010, I could have gotten $2K for your gun. Easy.

Did it a few times.

Good hunting. I should be able to sneak out a few times after the weather breaks, and before the season closes the evening of New Year’s Day. Hope you can do the same.

Best,
Ted

Ted,
Late to this current discussion, but that first page photo of the 28 ga. with a nice high rib looks great. You know how I abhor a severe swamped rib like most Darne's have, so this particular gun really appeals to my sense of aesthetics. Nice gun! Merry Christmas.
JR

John,
By far the most common version of Darne gun imported to the US prior to Paul Bruchet turning the company to production of custom guns only, is the raised rib pictured on the 28 gauge. Typically, but, not always, there is no under rib on a gun so configured. One of the regulars here, a knowledgeable English poster has consistently pointed out that he abhors under ribs for the corrosion that tends to develop under them. I’ve always considered an under rib not needed unless you were trying to balance a gun with short tubes, or get the weight up. I don’t live in England, and corrosion, on my guns, hasn’t bitten me in the ass, however.
I sold my 20 gauge R15, a lovely bird getting machine, with 29” tubes, a swamped rib and a straight stock, in a moment of foolishness. After I got rid of the big mistake that induced the sale of that gun (she thought she needed to change the world, and wanted to begin in my little corner of it) I began looking for another swamped rib, straight stock 20 gauge, in hopes it would perform about the same in my hands.

25 seasons went by. I can assure you, I looked long and hard, for a long, long time before another came my way. I compromised on barrel length, or, I’d still be looking. I own Darne guns with both styles of rib. But, I prefer to hunt birds with a swamped rib.

The girl I married harbored no illusions of me being anything but what I was, and signed on anyway, swamped ribs, Setters, and all.

I can’t speak to every hunting situation. But, on grouse and woodcock, and pheasants that haven’t been pressured into 40-50 yard flushes in front of the dog, I much prefer a swamped rib, on a Darne. I’ve never had the opportunity to use a different manufacturer’s version of a swamped rib. I don’t think it is a great option for clays games, but, that just might be me. I have other complications with my shooting, and find myself struggling with the things that used to work so well. But, I will continue to try to find what works best for things in the future. It may not be what worked well, before. Sadly, an ugly, All Weather Remington 1100 20 gauge LW has been about the most consistent gun in the arsenal this season. But, at least I’m still shooting. My brother will end his days in the nursing home. His guns live here, today. There, but for the grace of God....

Merry Christmas. May your New Year be blessed and joyful.


Best,
Ted