doublegunshop.com - home
Posted By: Sam Ogle STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 12:43 PM
Please, I beg of you.....don't let this Magnificent web site get down into the gutter.
Republicans.....you won't change a single mind.
Democrats.......you won't change a single mind.

Let us talk of double guns here.....my favorite "go to" site.

Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE
Posted By: Cobbhead Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 12:58 PM
Sam, I agree 100%. Just looked at the first 22 messages (one page) and 8 were politically oriented, 2 were "housekeeping" and 12 were about guns/hunting. Dave Weber, please reinstall Misfires. Let the looney tunes rant to their hearts content there. I, for one, rarely visited the site when it was up and now have difficulty avoiding the petty crap posted here. With the election still a bit over 3 months away it will just get worse.

Steve
Posted By: Bibbyman Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 02:16 PM
I agree. It's my opinion elections are won by the votes of the "undecided" who vote based on emotion, tradition, or something other than making an informed choice.
Posted By: Dan S. W. Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 02:21 PM
Ban the most frequent offenders, after warning, through November perhaps smile
Posted By: Last Dollar Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 02:23 PM
Maybe NOT perpetuate this thread either? Got the message
Posted By: Joe Wood Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 05:02 PM
I agree that what was once a wonderful gathering place for the sharing of thoughts and information for double guns has devolved into a mishmash of vitriolic attacks and bitterness. I wish there was no need for this but for the sake of the board it is probably best to reestablish Misfires and fiercely police the main board.
Posted By: James M Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 05:20 PM
To All:
I post informative information as relating to efforts to eliminate our right to keep and bear arms and I FIRMLY BELIEVE this information should be presented for all firearms collector/owners to see.
I have repeatedly done so and have attempted to leave politics as related to specific entities out of it. However; there is an extremely vocal group of anti-gun trolls infesting this forum that make a point of making this political in an effort to enrage everyone else. I DO NOT attack any one and rarely go after those who attack me.
If I am directed by Dave Weber to quit posting firearms confiscation related information here I will do so; otherwise it will continue.
I agree NON-FIREARM related political topics such as the economy, jobs, the national debt, illegal immigration etal. don't belong on this board.
And as an aside: All of you should go after the anti-gun trolls on this site if you are REALLY interested in cleaning it up.
Jim
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 05:41 PM
Oh Sam...don't you understand we children need to be educated by our intellectual superiors who have a magic device called a "personal computer" which affords them access to secret knowledge from "blogs" and "websites". Apparently there is something called "the internet" that actually has news outlets!?!
I for one was stunned to learn that progressives in a place called Kalifornia want to take our guns!!
I anonymously mailed ALL of mine to the Baltimore police during the last buy-back, but when the ISIS hoards head north from Mexico it is my hope that those with single-barrel trap guns at the gun club in Casa Grande will halt the advance.

What BS, and I'm sick of it.
Posted By: GMCS Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 05:52 PM
How about we talk about double guns leave all that crap and politics for someplace else.
Posted By: old colonel Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 06:18 PM
I will take the pledge and stop all politics for awhile. (not sure how long I can hold out)

It was not doing any good anyhow.
Posted By: Berrien Moore Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 06:32 PM
Sam

I strongly agree

Berrien
Posted By: keith Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 09:05 PM
Originally Posted By: Drew Hause
Oh Sam...don't you understand we children need to be educated by our intellectual superiors who have a magic device called a "personal computer" which affords them access to secret knowledge from "blogs" and "websites". Apparently there is something called "the internet" that actually has news outlets!?!
I for one was stunned to learn that progressives in a place called Kalifornia want to take our guns!!
I anonymously mailed ALL of mine to the Baltimore police during the last buy-back, but when the ISIS hoards head north from Mexico it is my hope that those with single-barrel trap guns at the gun club in Casa Grande will halt the advance.

What BS, and I'm sick of it.


What utter hogwash! No one forces me to read or participate in Gun Politics threads or threads about Damascus Barrels either. I do so because I am interested in those subjects. I seldom read threads about Spanish shotguns because they are not my cup of tea. And there are a lot of totally off topic threads that do not interest me. I don't complain about them except to bring up the hypocrisy of those who whine about Gun Politics threads yet never complain about all of the other totally off topic garbage that gets posted here.

No one forces anyone to click on any Thread topic. Guns, Gun Rights, and Politicians who threaten the right to own and shoot firearms are unfortunately intimately intertwined. I understand that there are many who would rather keep their head in the sand or live in the state of denial that permits them to support and defend anti-gunners. They will never be happy to see any Gun Rights threads. But in the end, they are the ones who click on those very subjects that they then cry to Dave about.

I have to wonder how many times these guys who keep reading stuff they dislike kept touching hot stove burners when they were children???

By the way... THIS THREAD has nothing to do with double guns. But I can't force myself to become so thin-skinned that I would whine to Dave about it. What a joke.

The following was posted earler today by Gary W. He made several excellent points about the Anti-Gun Party, so I will copy and paste it here in this off topic thread since that thread got locked. Bon Appetit!:

There were no U.S. flags displayed the first day of the DNC...there was much criticism and outrage on social media about this and SNOPES immediately issued a disclaimer saying it was false.
The DNC apologized, saying it was an "oversight" and displayed flags starting the second day.
Effectively, the DNC threw the liberal propaganda SNOPES team under the train with their "apology".
I found it odd the DNC built a wall around the convention center to keep people out and a low wall around the stage inside the convention center. However, a couple of people who illegally jumped the U.S. border were invited to speak at the convention along with a few gutter trash BLM supporters. Odd too, that no one was allowed in the DNC without a photo ID, but the democrats claim requiring a photo ID to vote disenfranchises their voting base. So, if they have photo ID's to get in the DNC, it shouldn't be a problem having one to vote should it?
Posted By: gjw Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 09:17 PM
Hi all, I sure do agree with Sam 100%. It is getting old that every time you pull up this board, there's something political that's been posted. I do wish that we'd stick to the subject at hand - Doubleguns.

Perhaps Misfires or something similar be returned so that all the BS can be ignored if one wants to.

Best,

Greg
Posted By: James M Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 09:21 PM
Thanks Keith:
You've basically posted what I would have said myself earlier time permitting but I had to go look at some guns.
We are in a WAR with the Libtards and gun grabbers so I will keep posting information I think others want to know about and for those that don't GAS; PLEASE DON'T BOTHER READING MY THREADS!
Jim
Posted By: keith Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 09:24 PM
Many of the same people who are whining about politics here also whined about the old Misfires forum. Some all-powerful invisible hand also forced them to look at stuff there that they then claimed they couldn't stand. Many guys like King Brown and nca225 who complained the most about Misfires and who were most vociferous in supporting Dave's decision to suspend it have been the worst offenders when it comes to posting off topic crap here on the front page.

What we really need is a tread from Ed Good informing us that bone charcoal case hardening is bad for guns.
Posted By: craigd Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 09:25 PM
Originally Posted By: gjw
Hi all, I sure do agree with Sam 100%....

Hi Greg, I'm going to say I appreciate that you were willing to go off topic now and then. I'll always remember your service to the country and and the fine example of family values.
Posted By: keith Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 09:30 PM
+1 -Another Home Run craigd. Unfortunately, showing guys their reflection in the mirror in this place makes you the bad guy.
Posted By: gjw Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 09:57 PM
Originally Posted By: craigd
Originally Posted By: gjw
Hi all, I sure do agree with Sam 100%....

Hi Greg, I'm going to say I appreciate that you were willing to go off topic now and then. I'll always remember your service to the country and and the fine example of family values.


Thanks so much for the very kind words! They are very much appreciated!!!

God Bless!

Greg
Posted By: Dave K Re: STOP!....Please - 07/28/16 10:11 PM
Been trying to figure out how the internet forces you to read anything you don't want to and still can't find it.

Oh well,as usual the summer season and demographics on here and we have :



Hunting season is just around the corner kids,learn to use the mouse and you don't have to be tortured reading what you don't want to.
Posted By: nca225 Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 02:00 PM
As always, everyone's fault but your own.
Posted By: Last Dollar Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 02:06 PM
YAWN......zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Posted By: King Brown Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 02:45 PM
It's clear and nearly unanimous members believe decent people don't abuse other human beings, and don't want any of it here.

I'm grateful Dave is stopping miscreants from migrating Misfires bile to this particularly distinctive forum of generosity and information.
Posted By: trw999 Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 03:09 PM
Name Thomas Boss
Other Names Boss & Co; E F P Boss & Co; Thomas Boss Ltd
Address1 3 Bridge Road, Lambeth
Address2 33 Edgeware Road
Address3 1 Lower Grosvenor Street
Address4 14 Clifford Street
Address5 76 St James's Street
Address6 73 St James's Street
Address7 13 Dover Street
City/Town London
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gun maker
Other Address 41 Albemarle Street; 13-14 Cork Street; 13 Dover Street; 16 Mount Street.
Dates 1816?-date

Notes

Thomas Boss (b.1790 in St Ann's parish, Blackfriars, London) was the son of William Boss (William (II) b.1758 in Narborough, Leicestershire) and Catherine (nee Seymour), and William (II) was the son of William Boss (I) (b.1722 in Woodthorpe, Leicestershire) and Parnell (nee Newberry).
William (I) may have been a gun maker. William (II) was apprenticed in 1773 to Thomas Ketland, the famous military and sporting gun maker of Birmingham. At some time in 1780 or shortly afterwards William (II) moved to London to work for Joseph Manton. In 1784 he married Catherine Seymour and they lived in Cumberland Street, Shoreditch, which was where, in 1787, their first son, William (William (III)), was born. Two more sons were born in St Ann's parish, Blackfriars, Fisher Boss (b.1788) and Thomas Boss. William (III) was apprenticed to his father in 1801, he went on to establish his own business as a gun maker, he was recorded between 1814 and 1817 trading as a gun maker at 9 Crown Street, Westminster, London (see William Boss). Fisher Boss also became a gun maker, he inherited some of his father's gun making tools, but he does not appear to have been recorded trading as a gun maker under his own name, although he is known to have made one gun which bore his name.
William (II) and Catherine had two more sons and four daughters, all were born at White Hart Place, Kennington, where the family lived.

In 1804 Thomas was apprenticed to his father at Mantons, but when his father died aged 51 in 1809 Joseph Manton took him on for the remainder of his apprenticeship. When Thomas finished his apprenticeship in 1811 he reportedly worked for Manton as a journeyman but his gun case labels from about 1920 claimed an establishment date of 1812, and this date is likely to be correct so he probably worked as a journeyman for about one year and then became an outworker. Many gun makers were also truss makers, because of their knowledge of making springs, and in his early days Thomas was both a truss maker and gun maker. There are reports that he set up as a gun and truss maker in 1816, or prior to 1814, near Leicester Square, but these are likely to be inaccurate. In any event, he was not recorded in business until 1817 when his address was 3 Bridge Road, Lambeth. In this period he seems to have been an outworker for the London trade and did work for James Purdey, Charles Moore, W A Beckwith and Charles Lancaster. The period around 1818 was bad for makers of high quality flintlocks because flintlock sales collapsed due to the invention of the copper cap and percussion ignition. Only flintlocks made by the best makers performed reliably, but percussion guns were much more reliable and almost any gun maker could make a good percussion gun. Lambeth was not a prime retail area so in 1827 Thomas rented premises, as near as he could afford to the fashionable West End of London, at 33 Edgeware Road. Although he continued as an outworker he also traded as a gun and pistol repository, buying from and selling guns direct to the public. He advertised "Self-acting Safety Guns" and "Attendance upon Gentlemen at their own houses, from 8 till 12 in the forenoon, and at his residence from that hour until 8 in the evening" (Bell's Life in London 3 June 1832). It is interesting that James Purdey and Thomas Boss worked for Joseph Manton at the same time, and that James Purdey was able to establish a successful manufacturing and retail business in 1816 but Thomas, due partly to the introduction of percussion ignition, had to work longer as an outworker before he could set himself up as a "Best" gun maker. It is also worth noting that both Boss and Purdey were primarily makers of sporting shotguns, whereas Charles Lancaster (established as a gun maker 1826) and later Holland & Holland (established 1835) were to build their reputations on making sporting rifles. James Purdey made only a few rifles and very few pistols, Thomas Boss made less of both.

Between 1833 and 1839 Thomas moved the business five times. In 1833 he moved to a property known as both 1 Grosvenor Street and 3 Lower Grosvenor Street; in 1835 he moved to 14 Clifford Street, and then in 1837 to 76 St James's Street. At this time Thomas described himself as a patent gun maker although the patents to which he referred were the patents of other gun makers, he never registered any patents himself. In 1837 Thomas married Amy Fields (known as Emma) who was born in 1795 in Louth, Lincolnshire, she was the daughter of a baker. They had no children, which was part of the reason why so many relatives were later employed in the business. In 1838 Thomas' nephew, Edward Fields Paddison (b.1825 in Louth), started his apprenticeship with Thomas. In 1839 the firm moved to 73 St James's Street. The 1841 census records Thomas and Amy living at 73 St James's Street with Edward Paddison, aged 13 years. Thomas described himself as a gun maker and Edward as an apprentice. In 1849 there was an epidemic of Cholera in London. Thomas caught it but survived.

The 1851 census records Thomas, Amy and Edward at 73 St James's Street, Thomas described himself as a gun maker employing 10 men and Edward as a journeyman gun maker. The firm made about 70 guns per annum. The 1851 census records Thomas' elder brother, William (William (III)) living Charterhouse Square, Finsbury. Charterhouse Square was surrounded by terraced houses and these comprised a hospital, poor house, school and accommodation for elderly gentlemen who appear to have been “founders” of the organisation (the school was later re-established in Godalming, Surrey, where it became the famous public school it is today). Evidently, William (II) did not work for Thomas. In 1856 Edward Paddison's brother, James Joseph (b.1842 in Louth) joined the firm as an apprentice. Other relatives later employed by Thomas were George Fatt (cousin), William Mears (husband of Ann Paddison), William John Mears and Joseph Chapman Mears (both sons of William). One very important employee who was not a relative was Stephen Grant, who almost certainly occupied the position of foreman. In common with all other London gun makers, the firm bought most of the parts for their guns from specialist makers. Their lock suppliers were John Stanton and Joseph Brazier (also barrels). Their barrel suppliers were Hutchison, Amos Elvins, Henry Squires, Thomas Parkin, John Portlock (and actions), Christopher Aston, and Thomas Smith. Outworkers used by Thomas were Atkins (actioner), William Byrne (finisher), Edwin (actioner), Finucane (finisher), Henry Glazier (stocker), Groves (finisher), Edwin Charles Hodges (actioner), Holliman (stocker), McEvoy (finisher), John Sumner (engraver), Whitehouse (stocker), and Edwin Wilkes (finisher). At this time, the firm used the Red House Shooting Ground at Battersea for testing and regulating their guns. Thomas Boss died on 17 August 1857, aged 67. Apart from a few monetary bequests his widow, Emma, then aged 62, inherited everything. She made Stephen Grant the managing partner.

In the 1861 census Emma was recorded as Amy Chapman Boss. She was living at 73 St James's Street with James Joseph Paddison (nephew b.1842 in Louth) and George Fatt (nephew b.1842 in St Pancras, Middlesex). Emma described herself as a partner in gun making firm employing 10 men, The boys were described as journeyman gun makers. On 15 June 1861 Stephen Grant, giving Boss & Co's name and address on the application, patented a drop-down barrel breech loader with underlever and double bite rotary bolt (patent No 1538). In this underlever design there was a rigid fore-end at the end of which the barrels pivoted. Only about six guns were made to the design. In 1862 the firm was appointed gun maker to the Prince of Wales, and their name changed to Boss & Co. In the 1860s gun production rose to about 95 guns per annum. Most of these, over 700, were pin-fire, the firm made no center-fire guns prior to 1866. In 1866, when Emma Boss was 71 years old, the partnership with Stephen Grant ended. Stephen Grant left to establish his own business a short distance away at 67a St James's Street. Emma Boss would not have been pleased to see him go or establish his own business so near to her own. The management of the firm fell upon Edward Paddison. The 1871 census records Edward as married (in 1870) to Martha Jane (nee Bowen b.1822 in Kensington). They lived at 63 Stamford Street, Lambeth. Martha had been married before and had a daughter, Angelina (b.1851 in Peckham), who lived with them. Edward was described as a gun maker, Martha was described as a mantle (cape) maker. and his brother James. The 1871 census also records James Joseph Paddison as a gun maker (screwer) living with his family at 22 Denbigh Street, Westminster. He was married to Ellen (b.1847 in Rye, Sussex) and they had a 1 year old daughter, Amy F (b.1870 in Camberwell). In 1871 Stephen Grant advertised in "The Field": "Stephen Grant, 67A St James's Street, SW (corner of St James's Place) late Managing Partner in the firm of Boss & Co, Breech and Muzzle-Loading Gun and Rifle Manufacturers, begs to inform the nobility and gentry that the partnership is dissolved and his business is now carried on as above.". Emma Boss replied with the following advertisement: "BOSS & CO., GUN AND RIFLE MANUFACTURERS Boss & Co beg respectfully to inform their numerous patrons and the nobility and gentry generally, that their business is carried on at their old established shop, 73 St James's Street (next door to The Conservative Club) and that they have no connection whatever with any other house. N.B. Several good second-hand guns and rifles for sale by celebrated makers.".

In July 1872 Emma died, leaving the business equally between Edward and James. They formed a partnership but unfortunately James died in December 1873 and Edward became sole owner of the business. He changed the name of the firm to E F P Boss & Co. Edward liked to be called Mr Boss, and signed his letters E F P Boss, but it seems that no guns were ever engraved E F P Boss & Co although the firm's letterheads, trade cards, and advertisements all carried the name, as did the shopfront. Like Thomas Boss, Edward described himself as a "Patent Gun Manufacturer" but he registered no patents himself. By the time of the 1881 census Edward and Martha were living at 177 Hampstead Road, St Pancras, with them on the night of the census was their grand-daughter Lilian Loughton (b.1874 in St Pancras) and a boarder, Ann Scott, a mantle maker. Martha died in August 1884. In 1886 Edward, aged 60, married a widow named Emelia Allen, Emelia was aged 44 and had a son. In Edward Paddison's hands the guns made by the firm remained very much the same as before. He was not in favour of snap actions or the top lever, The top lever was a step too far from the Jones under-lever, or "lever over guard" as he and some other traditional gun makers called it, and when he did change he, like Stephen Grant, had a preference for side-levers. Hammerless guns became more popular and Edward didn't object to these, but he favoured back action locks long after other gun makers dropped them, on the grounds that they were stronger. The one invention that he adopted very quickly was Whitworth Fluid Steel barrels, because they were stronger and lighter and more easily bored and rifled. On the other hand, he insisted, despite the introduction of nitro powders, that a 12 bore shotgun needed 30 inch barrels and nothing less would do. The 1880s saw a fall in the number of guns produced to about 50. This would have caused a reduction in the cash flow of the business and a fall in profits. Undoubtedly, the main reason for this was that Edward's customers wanted their new guns to have all the latest improvements and mechanisms. This was, after all, a time of great change and innovation, but in talking to his customers Edward's traditional and fixed ideas put them off buying Boss guns. From the mid 1880s Edward was not in good health and sought a partner to help him run the business. In 1890 John Robertson (John (I)), the outworker Boss & Co used more than any other, was offered a partnership. It is possible that Edward Paddison owed him for work done and could not pay. On 1 January 1891 John (I) bought a half share in the business. He paid £432 which appears to have been much lower than the real value of a half share in the business, but may have taken account of John (I)'s outstanding invoices.

In April 1891 Edward's wife, Emelia, died. In the 1891 census Edward was recorded living at 19 Portland Terrace, Paddington with a housekeeper, housemaid and general servant. He died in September of that year leaving his share of the business to a relative, Walter Fields Paddison (b.1858 in Great Malvern, Worcestershire) of 13 Belgrave Terrace, Wandsworth. Walter was a coach builder from Great Malvern who moved to London in about 1891 (see below). From 1 January 1891 John Robertson's three sons John (II), Sam and Bob continued the trade outworking side of the Robertson business at 4 Dansey Yard whilst John (I) devoted almost all of his time to the management of Boss & Co. At some time in late 1891 or early 1892 he changed the name of the firm back to Boss & Co. As mentioned above, Boss guns were old fashioned, and John (I) sought to restore the fortunes of the firm and develop a distinctive style for the guns it made. There was no immediate big change to the guns, for some time they had been based on the John (I) and Henry Holland patent No. 23, but were lever cocked on the fall of the barrels. They had John (I)'s own design of intercepting sear and his ejectors in fact, the guns of the early and mid-1890s were engraved "Boss Patent Ejector" and were sold as the "Desideratum Ejector". However, John (I) had in mind a slimmer and sleeker hammerless sidelock than most of the top gun makers produced, and for these new guns he had the locks made for him by Chilton. In the mid 1890s a rounded body version was introduced on which the locks and the action were curved, and the stock had no drop points. John (I) also wanted his own distinctive engraving, this was developed over a period of years in co-operation with the Sumners. Like Purdey engraving, it pictured roses and scrolls, but it had five small bouquets rather than three large ones. In May 1891 John (I)'s son, Sam Robertson, had married Annie. They had three sons but only the second son, Alec (b.1894) joined the business. On 27 February 1892 Walter Fields Paddison registered patent No. 3809 for a try gun. In the patent application he described himself as a gun maker and gave Malvern as his home address. It seems likely that Walter Paddison tried as best he could to contribute to the Boss business, but that John (I) assisted him in the design of the try gun. Walter and his family were recorded in the 1901 census living at 13 Belgrave Terrace, Wandsworth. Walter described himself as a coach trimmer (employed).

Walter’s try gun was hailed by John Robertson as the best on the market mainly because of the number of adjustments that could be made, and in particular because there was a pivot immediately behind the boxlock action for accurate adjustment of cast. Try guns were used to determine the correct stock measurements for individual customers. William Palmer Jones of Birmingham had registered the first successful design but Walter's try-gun was a substantial improvement. These guns were sold to Churchill and Atkin amongst others, but they and other try guns were not favoured by James Purdey, Westley Richards, W W Greener or Mr Watts at the London School of Shooting, because of their weight and balance, and the lack of consistency in the way most customers mounted their guns. On 3 November 1893 John (I) registered his first single trigger patent No. 20873. This was a two pull mechanism but was not a success due to the usual occasional double discharge. Another patent on 21 March 1894 (No. 5897) never got past the provisional stage for the same reason. On 31 December 1893 Walter sold his half share of the business to John (I) for £1500. John (I) could not finance this purchase out of his own funds so he took out a mortgage which took him until 1903 to pay off. On 26 November 1894 John (I) registered patent No. 22894 for what quickly became the famous Boss revolving turret non-selective single trigger, described in the order books of the firm as the "thistle" trigger, probably because of its general shape and John (I)'s Scottish ancestry. A trial was organised in December 1894 at the London School of Shooting (re-named London Sporting Park in 1897) at Old Oak Common, Willesden, to demonstrate the safety, reliability and effectiveness of the trigger. The Press and others were invited, and they were enthusiastic about the invention. Over the next 18 months the subject of single triggers was much discussed but some members of the public were still sceptical, so in June 1896 another trial took place at the London School of Shooting where, amongst other things, the single trigger proved to be 100% reliable but a double trigger gun with very light (one pound) pulls double discharged. Boss's claim that their single trigger was "Absolutely the safest Guns Made" was justified. On 28 September 1895 John (I) and William Adams registered patent No. 18135 for a safety mechanism which locked the sears, this was improved by a further patent in 1905.

In the late 1890s Bob Robertson moved from the workshops, which employed about 36 gun makers, to act as his father's assistant at 73 St James's Street. Boss & Co employed about 10 gun makers in the shop at this time, gun production had risen to about 70 guns per annum. On 4 February 1897 John (I) and William Adams registered patent No. 2988 for the famous Boss ejector which is still in use today. Most ejectors use simple leverage to extract unfired cases a short distance out of the chamber, but in the Boss ejector the ejector spring moves the extractor and the unfired cases are moved further out of the gun. After firing, the extractors remain held back until the gun is open and the cartridge cases can be ejected. A by-product of the design is that when the gun is unfired, the extractors acting against the action face make the gun an "assisted opener", but this is not the same as a "self-opener". This feature is of very little benefit and was not mentioned in sales literature. On 13 May 1898 John (I) registered patent No. 10949 for a selective version of his Thistle single trigger. This had a slide on the right lockplate which when pushed forward fired the right barrel first and when pushed back fired the left barrel first. In 1898 the firm made two three barrelled single trigger sidelock ejector guns. Three barrelled guns were not popular and were never intended for volume production, they were probably made only to demonstrate the firm's skill at gun making. In 1899 John (I)'s workshops moved to larger premises at 1-2 Ham Yard, Great Windmill Street, where John Rigby also had workshops.

In the 1901 census the family were recorded living at 25 Uplands Road, Hornsey, London. John described himself as a sporting gun maker rather than simply a gun maker. On 5 January 1903 John (I) registered patent No. 241 for a supposed further improvement to his turret single trigger. This resolved the problem of failure of the spring in the turret, which left the gun unusable. The turret was mounted on ball bearings and the spring was replaced with inclined planes on the turret against which the trigger blade acted. The patent was complicated and not popular, so the idea was abandoned and the ordinary spring was replaced by a corrosion resistant spring made of gold and copper. Also in 1903, the firm opened the Regent Shooting Ground off the Finchley Road at Hampstead. Bob Robertson took responsibility for tuition and gun fitting. One of the instructors at the shooting school was P A Stockbridge, a former employee of London Sporting Park later to work at Lang's Metropolitan Shooting School. On 30 May 1905 John (I) registered patent No. 11278 for his last improvement to his single trigger, a safety device. This locked the turret until the trigger blade was fully raised. If a trigger was lightly pulled and the safety sear not fully engaged, the gun would fire accidentally. On 31 May 1905 John (I) registered two patents, patent No 1140 for angled trigger blades to ensure smooth trigger pulling, and patent No. 11400B which was for an improvement to patent No. 18135 for his safety sear mechanism.

In 1894 James Purdey had registered his first single trigger patent, invented by a Purdey employee named William Nobbs. Purdey claimed that his trigger was a three pull mechanism but the claim was disputed by John Robertson who claimed that the Nobb's design had originally been a delayed action mechanism but had been altered to a three pull mechanism. As such, it was a copy of his patent No. 22894 of 26 November 1894. John Robertson took Purdey to court in December 1906. It was decided that the Nobbs single trigger was a 2 pull mechanism but it did not achieve it's objective and was useless, the patent was therefore invalid. It was also decided that Robertson could not claim to have been the inventor of the first three pull trigger mechanism because William Baker had made them before Robertson. Consequently, Purdey had not infringed the Boss patent. Although neither side could claim to have won or lost the case, Purdey was awarded costs. In 1908 the lease on 73 St James's Street expired and the property was rebuilt. On 1 July 1908 Boss & Co moved a short distance away to 13 Dover Street, a much smaller property where they leased only the ground floor and basement. Almost all the gun making was transferred to the Robertson workshops at 1-2 Ham Yard, but some repairs and adjustments were done at the shop, cartridges were loaded in the basement, single triggers were assembled, and Jack Sumner engraved guns by the front window of the shop. Also in 1908, because of compulsory purchase of the land for housebuilding, the Regent Shooting Ground moved a short distance north to Shire Hall Lane, Hendon, opposite the Royal Oak, Finchley Road. On 10 February 1909 John (I) registered patent No. 3307 for his famous "vertical barrelled" or Over / Under gun and, on the same date, patent No. 3308 for his O/U ejector mechanism. The problem with O/U guns was the weight of the gun and the depth of the action. John(I) got around this by replacing the central front lump of a normal gun with studs on either side of the lower barrel which slotted into grooves in the inside of the action. The rear lump was likewise replaced by larger studs or lumps on both sides of the lower barrel. The barrels were bolted shut by bolts coming through the lower part of the action face and engaging in slots in the rear barrel lumps. The ejector mechanisms were fitted into the sides of the fore-end. The result was a light, slim and strong gun which was later also made in a lightweight version. These first Boss O/U guns were made so that the top barrel fired first. The reason given for this was that the top barrel is easier to re-load quickly than the lower barrel, but this ignores the fact that firing the top barrel first results in more perceived recoil and muzzle "flip". This is due to the top barrel being more off-set from the line of the stock than the lower barrel. Normal practice in modern times is for the bottom barrel to be fired first so that it the shooter can more easily, quickly and accurately move on to the second bird.

It is likely that much of the development of the Boss O/U was done by the factory manager at the time, Bob Henderson, and the story, probably apocryphal, was that he was annoyed that his contribution was not sufficiently acknowledged by John(I) and eventually, in 1918, he resigned to go to John Rigby & Sons. In 1926 he re-joined Boss & Co. In 1910 Alec Robertson, Sam's second son, joined the firm as an apprentice at the workshops in Ham Yard. At this time the firm employed 46 gun makers most engaged in trade work but also making about 100 guns per annum for Boss & Co. In 1913 the workshops moved to even larger premises at 6, 8 & 10 Lexington Street, Golden Square, Soho. In August 1914 war was declared and and gun orders almost ceased. Almost half the staff left to join the fight, others found work elsewhere. The firm obtained a series of contracts to make cocking pieces for Lee-Enfield rifles, and this kept them occupied for the duration of the war. On 20 August 1915 John Robertson registered patent No. 12298 for a bomb or grenade thrower. Grenades were in their infancy, and this catapult type thrower powered by rubber bands was designed for a cylindrical bomb or grenade with a hand lit fuse. It was probably never used.

In March 1917 John (I) died of appendicitis aged 77 years, he was cremated at Golders Green. The firm was left equally to his sons, John, Sam and Bob, but his daughter, Annie, was left several properties which had been bought over the years. John ran the shop and chequered guns, Sam ran the workshops and stocked fore-ends, and Bob ran the shooting ground at Hendon. here was always a demand at Boss & Co for inexpensive guns, both shotguns and "Rook and Rabbit" rifles, for young sons, keepers etc. In Edward Paddison's time customers were probably referred to other gun makers such as Holland & Holland. After John Robertson took over the demand was satisfied by selling guns, sidelocks and boxlocks, bearing the John Robertson name. Some of these guns were given Boss serial numbers and some were not. From about 1930 lower quality guns were sold bearing the John Robertson name and Boss & Co's address at 41 Albermarle Street. Most of these guns were made by John Harper and Webley & Scott, a few were made by Arthur Ilsley. In the early 1920s the firm had cash flow problems and was on the point of bankruptcy, but a gift of £1000 from a Mr A G Turner resolved the situation, perhaps he was a friend of the family. The demand for sporting guns in Europe was poor, so for the first time the firm made an effort to find export business and appointed Von Lengerke & Detmold of New York their USA agents. Bob visited the USA regularly every year for the next 20 years. The result was that gun production in the 1920s was a record for the firm, about 120 guns per annum. In 1929 John Robertson died aged 67. Under his will and the partnership agreement his daughter, May, who in 1915 had married John Cameron Rennie, an engineer and patent agent, inherited his share of the business.

In 1929 the Regent Shooting ground had to move because of the compulsory purchase of the land at Shire Hall Lane, Hendon, for building houses. The firm bought the freehold of 30 acres of land at Rowley Green, Barnet, and the shooting ground was re-established there (it eventually became the A1 Shooting Ground and exists to this day). In May 1930 the shop moved from 13 Dover Street to 41 Albemarle Street, formerly occupied by Harrison & Hussey. At this time the Great Depression was affecting sales in the gun trade generally, and the outlook was not good, so the firm became a limited company with Sam, Bob and May Rennie as directors. A few staff were laid off, and the remainder took a cut in wages, but the main cause of lower levels of production must have been a fall in trade work because although some years were poor, Boss & Co Ltd sales remained fairly high at about 80 guns per annum. Remarkably, servicing and repairs and cartridge sales were hardly affected. At some time in the early 1930s John Donald Rennie (Jack), May Rennie's son, joined the firm as an apprentice barrel maker. In the early 1930s Boss made a true self-opening gun which made use of the rocking motion of the cocking lever. As the barrels fell the rear end of this lever, assisted by a V spring, rose to cock the tumblers while the front end of the lever moved down to push the barrels further open. The guns were a little difficult to close and less than 60 were made from 1933 to 1937, a couple were made after the Second World War. The advantage of the design was not considered to be a significant improvement over the basic Boss assisted-opening design. At some time in the 1930s Bob Robertson was attending, as an instructor, a grouse shoot in Yorkshire at which King George VI was a guest. Bob reportedly asked the king if he had ever thought of buying a Boss gun, to which the response was "A Boss gun! A Boss gun! Bloody beautiful but too bloody expensive!". Only in 1862 did any member of the British Royal family ever buy a Boss gun, this was the Prince of Wales, no other Royal appointments were given to the firm.

In May 1934 Sam Robertson died aged 70 years. For some reason, he left his shares in the company to his eldest and youngest sons, Jack and Tom, neither of whom had any interest in the business. His second son, Alec, who was employed by the company, replaced him on the board and 11 years later in 1945 took over these shares. Perhaps his father wanted to treat all his sons fairly, and considered that as Alec was employed by the firm he had already received his inheritance. In 1939 the lease on the workshops in Lexington Street terminated and new premises were found at 34 Osnaburg Street. During the Second World War the company sold a small number of sporting guns, put together by Bob Henderson, but most of their efforts were concerned with the production of parts for Enfield rifles, the assembly of machine guns and the reconditioning of P14 service rifles. For this work almost all the pre-war staff were retained. Other work included anodising, blacking and applying corrosion resistant surfaces to aeroplane parts. For this purpose additional workshops were taken at 143 1/2 Euston Road and, because the work was not skilled, a dozen or so women were employed. The post war situation with high taxation and inflation meant that the old days of gun making were gone for good. Gun production dropped to about 20 guns per annum. In 1951 Bob Robertson died aged 77 Years. His two daughters inherited his shares and his friend, and the company's accountant, Francis Harman, became a director in his place. Jack Rennie was also appointed a director. At this time Alec Robertson was chairman and managing director of the company.

In 1953 the lease on the workshops at 34 Osnaburgh Street terminated and new premises were found at Horse Shoe Alley, Southwark. In 1954 Alec Robertson died aged 60 years. Arthur Sanderson, the shop manager, was appointed a director in his place. In November 1956 John Gilbert Robertson was appointed a director. He was a sales manager for a chemical firm, but he at least provided continuity of the Robertson family in the business. In 1960 the lease on the shop at 41 Albemarle Street ended and the shop moved to 13-14 Cork Street. In 1965 Francis Harman died and in his place Fred Oliver was elected to the board of directors. Fred had been originally employed by the firm in 1922 to load cartridges. At about this time the company decided to cease production of their O/U gun. Many of the craftsmen had retired and, with only about 8 gun makers, the company no longer had sufficient skilled staff to make them.

In 1973 Arthur Sanderson resigned. Alastair Rennie, May Rennie's grandson, became a director but shortly afterwards emigrated to Australia. In 1981 a friend of the Robertson family, Tony Lokatis, became a director. In 1973 the workshops moved to 8 Holyrood Street in Southwark. In 1982 the lease on the Cork Street shop terminated, but coincidentally the lease on the 13 Dover Street shop that the business had occupied from 1908 to 1930 became available. The company moved there on 26 March 1982. At about this time the company employed only about 8 gun makers and produced only half a dozen guns per annum. In 1990 Tim Robertson, son of John Gilbert Robertson and great nephew of Alec Robertson, took up the mantle of managing director of the company and tried to revive it. Boss & Co's main competitors were Holland & Holland Ltd and James Purdey & Sons Ltd. Holland & Holland had been taken over in 1989 by the owners of Chanel perfumes who invested in new machinery and diversified into clothing and accessories; Purdey were taken over in 1994 by the Vendome Group (luxury brand names such as Cartier, Dunhill, Baume & Mercier, Montblanc, Chloe and Karl Lagerfeld) and similarly diversified. Boss & Co needed capital and diversification to survive, neither of which could the shareholders provide. In 1999 Boss & Co was sold to a property company, North West Estates Ltd, in the person of Ken Fincken. He appointed Andrew Cowan as managing director. In 2000 Andrew moved the shop to larger premises at 16 Mount Street where they would also be nearer the Purdey and Holland & Holland shops. The workshops moved to the basement at 16 Mount Street but these were too small and had no natural light.

In 2002 Ken Fincken sold the company to Keith Halsey. Keith, who lived abroad, had interests in shooting and was a shareholder in Heckler & Koch (formerly owned by British Aerospace). Keith appointed his UK resident brother, Graham Halsey, to the position of managing director. In July 2003 Garry Clark (formerly with Benjamin Wild, also the Birmingham Gun Barrel Proof House, Parker-Hale Ltd, and his own firm in Birmingham) agreed to become factory manager for the company. In 2004 a new factory was opened at Kew Green, Chiswick, London, where the number of gun making staff rose to 10. Guns, mainly O/U rather than side by side, are currently being made there. No CNC machinery is used, the various parts being made elsewhere but assembled and finished by Boss & Co. Internet Gun Club has some details of serial numbers which we have not published. Please send details of your gun and its serial number by email to archives@internetgunclub.com and we will reply with what information we have. Members with a particular interest in Boss guns will find considerably more detail in Donald Dallas's book, "Boss & Co, Best Gunmakers".

Other Info
Most Boss guns were engraved by four generations of the Sumner family, who also worked for many other London gun makers. John Sumner (I) (b.1806) established the business in about 1837, working from 10 Queen Street (re-named Bateman Street in 1887). He probably engraved Boss guns until about 1880 (no date of death known).
John Thomas Sumner (II) (b.1835) his son, probably engraved guns from about 1849 to 1887 when he died.
John James Sumner (III) (b.1859), the grandson of the founder, probably engraved guns from 1880 to 1909 when he died aged 49. It was he who together with John Roberson designed the standard Boss "House" engraving used from 1891.
John (Jack) George Sumner (IV)(b.1886), the great grandson, probably engraved guns from 1897. He enlisted in the Royal Army Medical Corps in 1915 and when he left the army in 1920 joined Boss & Co and worked for them until 1939. He died in 1959.
From 1939 the firm used a number of engravers.
The firm sold Eley shotgun cartridges under the names "Deep Brass" (post 1922), "Pegamoid", "High Velocity" (post 1927) and "Special", other cartridges were sold under the firm's name (these were catalogued and branded in various colours such as Green, Orange, Brown and Blue).

Just saying!

Tim
Posted By: Last Dollar Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 03:54 PM
NOW! That was interesting....I have a great recipe for scallop chowder, I may post...double gun related because I often make it for my Eastern guests..
Posted By: Rockdoc Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 05:47 PM
Originally Posted By: Last Dollar
NOW! That was interesting....I have a great recipe for scallop chowder, I may post...double gun related because I often make it for my Eastern guests..

Sounds delicious, please post it!

Steve
Posted By: Gr8day Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 06:33 PM
CZ is actually short for "Ceska Zbrojovka" a.s. Uhersky Brod, (CZUB) of the Czech Republic.

Ceska Zbrojovka is pronounced "Chess-ka So-Brrav-Ka" the "R's" should be rolled.

CZ manufactures the CZ-75B semi auto pistol which is used by more police and military than any other pistol in the world. It's their biggest mover because of the quality and reliability. They manufacture over and under shotguns also; however, they also import other models under contract with Huglu of Turkey.

Česká Zbrojovka a.s., Uherský Brod, (CZUB), is a firearms manufacturer established in 1936 in the small Moravian town in the Czech Republic. After World War II all the firearms manufacturers were managed by a single central agency which required that "Any firearm exported will bear the BRNO markings". This is why there are a great deal of CZ Uhersky Brod firearms with BRNO markings.

Throughout the Cold War, CZ manufactured a wide variety of military small arms including the CZ 52 pistol, the CZ 58 assault rifle, the vz. 61 Škorpion, various .22 caliber training and target rifles, and the CZ 75 family of pistols.

In 1991 the Czech weapons factories were "de-centralized" and began business as free market companies. CZUB was the first to move into the free world economy, establishing a small arms presence across the globe and dominating the market in over 60 countries.

In 1991 CZUB established a permanent presence in the United States with the founding of CZ-USA. CZUB and CZ-USA continue to expand and dominate the small arms market world wide, with military, police, defensive, sporting and recreational firearms of unparalleled design and quality.

The CZ factory employs some 2000+ highly trained engineers, craftsmen and business personnel, making it one of the largest firearms manufacturers in the world.

Barrels are forged chopper lumps with third upper bite (Purdey design) made of Poldi electro steel, silver brazed with solid concave rib 28.3” (720mm) in length choked modified and improved. Actual stamping on the bottom of barrels reads: 17.6 diameter on left and 17.8 on right, then both barrels have 18.35 diameter throats, obviously in millimeters. Czech required proof mark is stamped –95, which means gun was made in 1995. Production ceased in 1998. Chambers are 2. ¾” and fitted with selective ejectors (fired shell eject, unfired extract). Ejectors are operated by Anson & Deeley type splinter forend latch. Action is of true sidelock with etched game scenes finished in silver, complemented with cocking indicators and automatic safety on upper tang. Double triggers, oval cheekpiece, LOP 14.1/4”, Turkish walnut, recoil pad. In fact this model was the only gun, that Brno factory never made any profit on. Its production was staggeringly expensive and required a small group of craftsmen to hand fit all those machined pieces together. Interestingly, Brno Arms was the largest small arms production in the world in early 60s, having about 10000 employees. Yet, only a few hundred of SxS were produced yearly. They are history now, Brno production buildings are empty and turned into warehouses. For those who wonder what designation Brno ZP149 means, it goes like this: Brno – city and manufacturer place in Czech republic, Z – zbrojovka (weaponry/ armament), P – Pavlicek (name of designer), 149 – first introduced in 1949.

From another source:

A bit of the history of Ceska Zbrojovka and Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka (and Ceska Zavody Motocyklove) for anyone interested.

Ceska Zbrojovka
The company we know as Ceska Zbrojovka was founded in 1919 in Pilsin, as the Jihoceska Zbrojovka (South Bohemian Arms Factory). It moved in 1921 to a new factory in Strakonice, and in 1922 it merged with the Hubertus Factory and changed its name to Ceska Zbrojovka (Bohemian Arms Factory). Its trademark is "CZ", where the "Z" is inside the loop of the "C" and the "C" is in a circle. Ceska Zbrojovka was the sole supplier of handguns to the Czech military from 1926 to 1954 (and possibly beyond). Among the military pistols produced by Ceska Zbrojovka are the Vz-24, V-27, Vz-36/45, Vz-38, Vz-50 & Vz-70, and the Vz-52. (Note: "Vz" is the abbreviation for "Vzor", or "Model").

Ceska Zbrojovka was preparing to move from Strakonice to Uhersky Brod in 1939 when Germany invaded Czechoslovakia and seized the factory. During the Occupation, Ceska Zbrojovka was owned by (read "expropriated to”) the Reichswerke Herman Goring (RWGH) and their production was dedicated to the Third Reich. During WWII, Ceska Zbrojovka remained at in Strakonice and continued to make pistols for the Third Reich. Germany used a number of Czech Vz-24's, Vz-27's (as the "Pistole Modell 27") and Vz-38's (as the model "P.39(t)"). Pistols made during the Occupation can be found marked "Bohmische Waffenfabrik A. G. Prag". Ceska Zbrojovka also produced parts for the Walther P.38, and such parts will have the code "fnh" and the Waffenamt "WaA 76". Ceska Zbrojovka was considered for production of the P.38 during WWII, but whether they actually produced any complete pistols is a matter of dispute. This subject is clouded by the post-war (1946) production of some P.38’s by Ceska Zbrojovka using parts and salvaged pistols, and P.38’s marked “Vz-46” are known to exist.

In 1955 Ceska Zbrojovka finally moved to Uhersky Brod and the Strakonice factory was turned over to the Ceska Zavody Motocyklove to produce motorcycles. Today, Ceska Zbrojovka is still in operation and produces pistols such as the Vz-75, Vz-82, and Vz83 and sub-machineguns like the Vz-61 (Scorpion) and the Vz-83. It now also appears to produce sporting rifles, and has a net site at http://www.czub.cz.

Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka

Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka was founded in 1918 in the city of Brno, acquired Mauser’s tooling to produce Model 98 rifles, and began production of M98 Mauser rifles. Its trademark was the letter "Z", inside a rifled bore. This trademark originally belonged to the Praga Zbrojovka whose assets were purchased by Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka in 1926. As Ceska Zbrojovka had the "lock" on Czech military pistol contracts, so Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka was the sole supplier of long arms to the Czech military. Probably the most well known rifle produced by Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka is the Vz-24. With Germany in general and Mauser in particular banned from producing military arms, Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka moved into the void and became one of the major exporters of small arms during the inter-War years.

Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka was also occupied during WWII, and was expropriated to the Reichswerke Herman Goring (RWGH) and their production was also dedicated to the Third Reich. Rifles produced by Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka for the Third Reich will be found with the manufacturer's codes “dot” (Brunn plant), “dou” (Bystrica plant), and “dov” (Vsetin plant). One often ignored fact is the British BREN light machinegun is a Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka design, and was produced by the Royal Arms factory in England under license from Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka.

Folks frequently confuse the trademarks of these companies - a situation not helped by the fact the country code for Czechoslovakia is also "CZ". The place name "Brno" is also frequently misused as a company identifier for Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka, possibly because few non-Czech speakers want to attempt to pronounce "Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka". But be that as it may, the name "Brno" came into such common usage that it was utilized as a product name after the Communist take-over of Czechoslovakia. Speaking of which…

With the Communist take-over in the late 1940's both Ceska Zbrojovka and Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka ceased to exist, at least as we think of them as companies. Rather they became State owned manufacturing facilities ("Narodni Podnik", or "National Enterprise"). At this point it becomes unclear the degree to which commercial firearm markings indicate what factory was involved in the production of the firearm. At some point the manufacturing facility in Brno was renamed to Zbrojovka Brno (Brno Arms). The manufacturing facility in Uhersky Brod became a member of the Zbrojovka Brno Narodni Podnik in 1965. At this point the firearms produced at Uhersky Brod were also marked (I won't say "used the trademark") “Brno".

I think it's important to note here that while these were still physically different manufacturing facilities, both were a part of the same National Enterprise. That's an important distinction since what we, in a capitalistic society, think of as "companies" and "trade marks" either do not exist or have different meanings in a Socialist State.

With the deterioration and eventual dissolution of the Soviet Union private enterprise again came to Czechoslovakia. The National Enterprise located at Uhersky Brod is once more "Ceska Zbrojovka", and appears to be well on the road to private ownership. It even has a new trademark; the outline of a pistol in a circle. Ceska Zbrojovka has an Internet site at http://www.czub.cz, and an office here in the States. The last address I have for their US office is:

CZ USA
Building B, Unit 119
1401 Fairfax Trafficway
Kansas City, KS 66115
800/955-4486
913/321-1811
913/321-2251 Fax
email: czusa@gvi.net

Following the Second World War, Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka produced few arms - it began the manufacture of information and communications devices. In 1989, it was restructured and reorganized. The change reached a head in 1995 when it emerged as Zbrojovka Brno (a joint stock company) and resumed larger scale production of sporting rifles and shotguns. Which brings us to the second trademark of the reformed Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka - “ZB”.

As of 18 May 1995, Zbrojovka Brno/Brno Arms was still in operation and producing fine shotguns, rifles, pistols, and airguns. Individual shareholders held 50.43% of its stock, with the remainder of its capitalization provided by governmental entities. Reportedly, 40% of its production goes to 52 countries worldwide. Zbrojovka Brno uses “ZB”, the letter "Z" inside a rifled bore, “Brno Arms”, and “Arms Brno” among its trademarks. To the best of my knowledge, Zbrojovka Brno does not have a US office, but does have an internet site at http://www.zbrojovka.com/auvod.htm
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 06:51 PM
"We are in a WAR with the Libtards and gun grabbers..."

Therein lies the problem. Every difference of opinion does not require vilifying the opponent, denigrating their opinions, or attacking their character while formulating an "enemies list". And if someone lacking the cojones to use their real name attacks my family or my integrity, responding in kind just gives the sociopath more opportunities to entertain himself. And a public forum is not the place to deal with it. The most effective counter to lies is the truth...or pictures wink
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/24716095

Where I was raised it was felt to be rude to inflict even my most heart-felt opinion on another competent adult without their permission. And even worse form to harangue those who already happen to agree, but don't share the same zeal.

I think it's safe to say that 90% of us:
1. Get that our Second Amendment rights, and many others, are at profound risk. And 50 "educational" posts don't make us any more aware of that fact.
2. We are already committed to protecting ourselves and our families, and are well armed to do so.
3. We come here for diversion and double gun information, because our lives are already stressful enough.
4. We are polite enough not to feel the need to inflict our political opinions on the unwilling and uninterested. I happen to think we are rapidly nearing a (likely violent) separation of the States, but will keep that to myself.
5. When we get disgusted enough with the atmosphere here, we'll stop posting and/or leave. I suspect most of Dave's paying advertisers want information as to how many people are viewing the website.

And I think very little of what we discuss here has any eternal significance, and God is still on His throne in heaven, but this is not the venue to discuss that either.
Posted By: WildCattle Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 07:08 PM
Sam,
I could not agree more. IMHO the site has unfortunately gone down as real content is now rarer and rarer and is being overgrown with political opinions, which one can get ad nauseam on any number of other venues.
I also believe that the Misfire section actually amplified this and am not looking forward to its revival.
Best regards,
WC-
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 07:39 PM
Soooo, how 'bout that chowder recipe...


__________________________
So much drama in the LBC. Snoop Dogg
Posted By: ed good Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 08:08 PM
well, digby scallops served under the grapes at domaine de grand pre in wolfsville, ns are among the best...bet king could tell us more...perhaps even the recipe?

http://grandprewines.ns.ca/
Posted By: Walter C. Snyder Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 08:29 PM
You guys just don't get it!!
Posted By: keith Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 08:51 PM
24 hours has passed, and all we get is more hogwash.

Originally Posted By: Drew Hause
Where I was raised it was felt to be rude to inflict even my most heart-felt opinion on another competent adult without their permission. And even worse form to harangue those who already happen to agree, but don't share the same zeal.


Really??? So just what do you call this post, and your previous post?


Originally Posted By: Drew Hause
And I think very little of what we discuss here has any eternal significance, and God is still on His throne in heaven, but this is not the venue to discuss that either.


Since you bring the Lord into this, here's a theological question:

Does God grant us free will... or does He force us to click our mouse on threads we don't like and force us to read threads we don't like?

Considering the usual selective indignation exhibited here, along with the usual attempts at censorship of gun rights threads, I see no compelling reason to "STOP... please" I might feel differently if those who are complaining actually complained about every non-double gun topic. But they don't.

And I see any off-topic thread as an open invitation to post things that may be unflattering to those who support and defend anti-gunners. Thanks for another opening. Here's a must watch video of the anti-gunner Obama telling you how he and Hillary think. It's only 19 seconds long but speaks volumes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfRtbIQ1kTw&feature=youtu.be

Posted By: Fin2Feather Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 09:34 PM
Originally Posted By: Drew Hause
"We are in a WAR with the Libtards and gun grabbers..."

Therein lies the problem. Every difference of opinion does not require vilifying the opponent, denigrating their opinions, or attacking their character while formulating an "enemies list".


Thanks Doc Drew; and well said.
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 09:39 PM
Keith: as a sovereign grace reform missionary Baptist I believe the Lord gave us a mind, and expects us to use it "to reason together", with each other, and with Him and His revealed word (Isaiah 1:18).
But I'll stop.
Posted By: ithaca1 Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 10:02 PM
Don't stop Rev. I missed church Sunday. Just started to enjoy this thread after your post! smile
Posted By: eugene molloy Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 10:11 PM
Well, the chowder recipe seems a bit shy of making a public appearance, so how about a different twist on a pheasant?

This one is pot roasted with carrots, leeks, green grapes, apricot jam red wine and chicken stock. To be really authentic the grapes should be fresh gooseberries; sharper and IMO nicer, but needs must when the Devil drives.



Nothing much to the preparation; just brown the bird in oil (I use rapeseed but please yourself) cut the vegetables so they are all more or less the same sized chunks, fry them in oil, add flour and cook for a few minutes. Add red wine and some decent chicken stock.

He was a big old bugger this one, a typical back season Welsh hill bird, so a couple of hours wasn't too long to cook him.

This plate has got your name on it ..... cut the bird in two lengthways, add a few spuds and peas and Robert is Mummy's sibling.



Lab "Jack" played his part in bringing this to the table, and fancies he's in for some gravy; and so he is. smile



I only put the pics in because Rev Drew said I should ...

Eug
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 10:24 PM
Bet you can't get that at Asda. Nice dog.

___________________________
Morgan Plus 4, Churchill XXV, pretty Polish girl, picnic lunch and a bottle of wine. What don't I get?
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 10:25 PM
Thanks Eugene. Churrasco, black beans, and rice. Fond of a pint myself, but Christianos don't drink in Guatemala frown



Going back in a couple of months. This helps keep things in perspective smile

Posted By: Geo. Newbern Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 11:36 PM
Originally Posted By: keith
24 hours has passed, and all we get is more hogwash.



keith, I don't mind your politics as much as you might think but that bug you have crawling all over the screen drives me NUTS!...Geo
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 11:48 PM
Originally Posted By: lonesome roads

Morgan Plus 4, Churchill XXV, pretty Polish girl, picnic lunch and a bottle of wine. What don't I get?


Hard focus on the birds.

SRH
Posted By: cadet Re: STOP!....Please - 07/29/16 11:49 PM
Indeed: please stop.

I come here to talk vintage doubles and other old, unusual, interesting guns, and collection and their use, with other enthusiasts.

I - and many others - have little more than incidental interest in US politics - general or 2nd amendment- and the petty and unseemly spat's borne of political disagreement that seem to divide you and have you at each others' throats pollute what could be otherwise a really enjoyable board, and make it too often tiresome and tedious. Take it elsewhere.
Posted By: Gunflint Charlie Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 12:17 AM
Originally Posted By: Drew Hause
"We are in a WAR with the Libtards and gun grabbers..."

Therein lies the problem. Every difference of opinion does not require vilifying the opponent, denigrating their opinions, or attacking their character while formulating an "enemies list". And if someone lacking the cojones to use their real name attacks my family or my integrity, responding in kind just gives the sociopath more opportunities to entertain himself. And a public forum is not the place to deal with it. The most effective counter to lies is the truth...or pictures wink
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/24716095

Where I was raised it was felt to be rude to inflict even my most heart-felt opinion on another competent adult without their permission. And even worse form to harangue those who already happen to agree, but don't share the same zeal.

I think it's safe to say that 90% of us:
1. Get that our Second Amendment rights, and many others, are at profound risk. And 50 "educational" posts don't make us any more aware of that fact.
2. We are already committed to protecting ourselves and our families, and are well armed to do so.
3. We come here for diversion and double gun information, because our lives are already stressful enough.
4. We are polite enough not to feel the need to inflict our political opinions on the unwilling and uninterested. I happen to think we are rapidly nearing a (likely violent) separation of the States, but will keep that to myself.
5. When we get disgusted enough with the atmosphere here, we'll stop posting and/or leave. I suspect most of Dave's paying advertisers want information as to how many people are viewing the website.

And I think very little of what we discuss here has any eternal significance, and God is still on His throne in heaven, but this is not the venue to discuss that either.


Drew cuts to the heart of the problem. Personal denigration is ugly and offensive to me. I might want to read some posts about defending our rights, but I've been done for a long time wading in the ugliness of most threads on the topic. There's not a damn thing good comes of any of it.

Jay
Posted By: keith Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 01:53 AM
Originally Posted By: cadet
Indeed: please stop.

I - and many others - have little more than incidental interest in US politics - general or 2nd amendment- and the petty and unseemly spat's borne of political disagreement that seem to divide you and have you at each others' throats pollute what could be otherwise a really enjoyable board, and make it too often tiresome and tedious. Take it elsewhere.


cadet is from Australia where the Government has confiscated and destroyed literally millions of guns. I wonder if he will care about gun politics when the Government comes back for more, including his doubles???





Some folks have to be hit in the head with a brick before things sink in. Then there are those who are so thick, their heads will only do damage to the brick.

If I didn't like or care about threads on Gun Rights, I simply wouldn't click on them or read them. That is too hard for some.
Posted By: cadet Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 04:36 AM
Keith, I come here to read about and discuss all things vintage doubles; unfortunately, some otherwise enjoyable material is spoiled by political and personal spillover. We can't avoid it here even if we try. I offer opinions and discuss all manner of gun and other politics pertinent to me in a number of places, but not here. I hold opinions about American politics etc, but they're not especially well informed or relevant to me, so I choose to keep my own counsel in times and places like here and now and not trouble anyone here with them; and I don't think many people in the US really care what anyone else in the world thinks of them anyway.
Posted By: eugene molloy Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 07:30 AM
In another effort to flush the chowder out from cover, this evening we propose partridge in the Rouen style on a bed of apples, accompanied by chilled dry cider.

A dead simple dish that reflects Rouen and the Departement of Haut Normandie ; lots of game shooting, apple orchards and cider making. You can have a really nice break touring the D-Day beaches, eating well, and necking the cider and Calvados.

Beginning .... the ingredients. Partridge, Coxs' apples, cream, a bit of brown sugar and of course unsalted Welsh butter. You get a lot of that in France. cool

cool

Middle .... Browning the birds in the butter; the apples, cream and sugar are ready and waiting. When you've done the browning the butter goes on top of the apples. Two hours in a middling heat oven will do you.



End ... here's you plate. This is very rich, so just a few green beans and mange tout peas are all you need. Where you get a high quality dry cider in the US is your business, I never found any. Normandy is swimming in the stuff!





After a generous shot of Calvados and some good coffee you'll forget many of your troubles and the Polish girl will look even prettier. Don't be driving the Morgan though ....

Eug
Posted By: Last Dollar Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 09:56 AM
Marvelous Eugene! I will be trying that, substituting likely, small chickens for the partridge..I will be building the Chowder, in stages, in the next few days to provide tucker for our elk camp scouting trip next week into the mountains of Wyoming. I only hope that I can do photographic justice to the process to compare with your youre! Stand by, and thank you...!!! PS: I never met a Calvados or a Polish girl I didn't like...My Dad had a +4...
Posted By: wingshooter16 Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 12:35 PM
Normandy in general, and Rouen in particular is just lovely. I've been an amateur rose grower for 25 years, and I was struck by the roses and other flowers that blanketed most homes in the area.

Thanks for the post, and evoking memories.

Mike
Posted By: GLS Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 01:01 PM
A traditional chowder is dairy based. I call my version a “chowder” but it doesn’t have a dairy base. I use water or vegetable broth. I suppose it’s a stew, but “chowder” sounds more maritime. I start off by covering the bottom of a Dutch oven or kettle (big pot) with olive oil. I add a couple of chopped garlic gloves and two chopped onions and sauté until translucent. I add a pound of diced potatoes and a couple of pounds of diced fish, boneless and skinless. Supermarket tilapia or salmon is perfect. Cover with enough water or broth and bring to a roll. Cut down to a simmer and cover the pot with a top. I simmer for a couple of hours. I have also added a several bay leaves and a pinch of salt and pepper to taste. I also added fresh thyme during the simmer. I strip it off from thyme twigs. It’s tedious to do, but worth it. How much thyme? I buy it in packs from my local supermarket and use about a dozen or more twigs. It doesn’t overpower, but makes a difference. Like most stews or chowders, it is better the next day. I usually get at least three meals for two from what I cook. Grated parmesan cheese or equivalent is a good topping before serving. Add a dash or two of your favorite hot sauce to your bowl. This is a wintertime treat, but breaks the monotony of summer meals as well. Onions, garlic, fish and potatoes are the necessaries. I have substituted pulverized zukes from a blender for potatoes which thickens the mix and works well. This is a one pot meal for those who hate to clutter a kitchen sink with pots and pans and prep time is minimal.
Posted By: Fin2Feather Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 01:32 PM
Great! I just ate, and now I'm already hungry again. Thanks a lot, guys!
Posted By: Last Dollar Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 03:37 PM
De Nada!
Posted By: keith Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 08:34 PM
Originally Posted By: cadet
Keith, I come here to read about and discuss all things vintage doubles; unfortunately, some otherwise enjoyable material is spoiled by political and personal spillover. We can't avoid it here even if we try. I offer opinions and discuss all manner of gun and other politics pertinent to me in a number of places, but not here.


I see. So it's OK for you to discuss gun politics and inflict your opinions on others in a number of other places... but for some reason, this is sacred ground. Only double guns may be discussed here, right... except for all those other totally off topic threads like the ones on pump shotguns, recipes, Jagermeister's handgun choices, dogs, trucks, fluorescent orange hunting clothes, retirement, hunting boots, binoculars, chest waders, knife sharpening, file manager, flintlock pistols, e-bay gun sales, carbon monoxide detectors, forming oxygen cylinders, police shootings, and even an anti-2nd amendment Socialist named Kingsley L. Brown.

That was just a very partial list of the non-doublegun topics that routinely get posted here. I admit that I enjoyed or participated in some of them. Others, not so much. So I simply didn't bother reading them. I suppose I could have whined to Dave or predicted the demise of this website and Western Civilization. I could have wrung my hands over wasted pixels, bits, and bytes too. I do hope that Misfires is not reinstated as some have requested. Simply having it there at the very bottom of the content page will be just too much for some here to avoid the temptation of looking.

Time for another recipe I guess, but hold the Ortolan.

Posted By: Last Dollar Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 08:43 PM
Needs more Garlic...
Posted By: keith Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 09:50 PM
What type of hinge pin grease is also good for cooking game birds and waterproofing hunting boots?
Posted By: Last Dollar Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 10:18 PM
Lexall
Posted By: treblig1958 Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 11:02 PM
Originally Posted By: eugene molloy




After a generous shot of Calvados and some good coffee you'll forget many of your troubles and the Polish girl will look even prettier. Don't be driving the Morgan though ....

Eug



Oh my, I need to get to Poland!!! I hear its absolutely beautiful, the countryside and all. You know whistle
Posted By: Last Dollar Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 11:21 PM
YES! YES..and the BEER!
Posted By: SKB Re: STOP!....Please - 07/30/16 11:26 PM
I'm partial to the Czech republic myself. I tend to like brunettes but Oh the blondes....and the Pevo dark in Prague....great memories.
Posted By: craigd Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 12:05 AM
Don't wake up guys, you're still gonna be in Milwaukee.
Posted By: treblig1958 Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 02:08 AM
Originally Posted By: SKB
I'm partial to the Czech republic myself. I tend to like brunettes but Oh the blondes....and the Pevo dark in Prague....great memories.


I agree there. I had a great time in Prague (Praha) but I saw it when I was young enough to enjoy it. To go back at my age wouldn't be as enjoyable.
Posted By: Tom C Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 02:46 AM
I am in 100% agreement with Sam and am happy to read that most people here feel the same way. I was seriously thinking about dropping this site because of all the political name calling.

I don't understand why James M, Keith and a few others feel they need to teach and lecture me about their personal beliefs. I am well read and already know everything:)

Let's stick to double guns and if you feel the urge to talk politics/guns you should go to the NRA website which would be geared more toward that topic.
Posted By: James M Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 02:55 AM
Quote:

"I don't understand why James M, Keith and a few others feel they need to teach and lecture me about their personal beliefs. I am well read and already know everything:)"

Yeah well tell us what one Federal dept. currently has in store for gun owners if you are that "well read". I'm all ears. I also don't intend to hold my breath but I will wait until tomorrow.
Jim
Posted By: Tom C Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 01:51 PM
See what I mean!
Posted By: Last Dollar Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 01:57 PM
YUP!
Posted By: Fin2Feather Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 02:27 PM
I guess somebody missed the smile.
Posted By: craigd Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 04:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Fin2Feather
I guess somebody missed the smile.

I missed it too. I'll have a 'word' with James about including it in the quote next time. Any chance of more pictures from Poland?
Posted By: James M Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 05:37 PM
Since no one replied I started a thread regarding new regulations that virtually will affect all of us. Once again if you don't care then don't bother reading it!
Jim
Posted By: Nick. C Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 06:44 PM
Has anyone bought or seen any nice shotguns lately, I like reading about things like that.
The food looks nice too though smile
Posted By: keith Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 07:34 PM
Originally Posted By: Tom C
See what I mean!


You didn't answer Jim's question Tom.

I'll repeat two other questions which I already asked...

Who or what forces you to read things that don't interest you?

And if you are so passionate on having nothing but double gun content here that you considered leaving, why haven't you commented about all of the other non-doublegun crap that gets posted here?
Posted By: SKB Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 07:58 PM
Bought and sold some really great ones lately. Just sold a high condition Birmingham Boxlock this morning, picked up an outstanding highly engraved BLE by T. Newton in nearly new condition, a real sleeper of a 16 bore SLE built on a Webley screw grip action and a really cool 12 bore percussion rifle.
Steve
Posted By: Last Dollar Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 08:14 PM
I bought a 1911 Clone, made in Turkey....veru impressed with quality and performance ...Ran 300 rounds through it without a bobble....Good shotguns and now good pistols...
Posted By: eugene molloy Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 09:02 PM
craigd asked
Quote:
Any chance of more pictures from Poland?


Sure ...



Much more of that and you'll go blind ... well OK risk one eye! Wonderful game soccer, don't you think? Pics taken at the recent Euros and findable with Google.

Anyone interested in a rolled shoulder of lamb, with apricot stuffing and spiced red cabbage?

Eug



Posted By: keith Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 09:11 PM
Originally Posted By: Tom C
See what I mean!


You didn't answer Jim's question Tom.

I'll repeat two other questions which I already asked...

Who or what forces you to read things that don't interest you?

And if you are so passionate on having nothing but double gun content here that you considered leaving, why haven't you commented about all of the other non-doublegun crap that gets posted here?

nca225 is going to be very offended by the photos of attractive girls. He/she is more into the Gay/Transgender stuff.
Posted By: Last Dollar Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 09:29 PM
Eug! that sounds like a great one! I just happen to have some excellent lamb in the freezer that I brought back from a recent trip to New Mexico...
Posted By: eugene molloy Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 10:22 PM
My Flickr account is playing up; so sorry no pics of the lamb. In the intermission here are a few snaps of some nice dogs, and at least one nice handler. Try and imagine some background music.

"Ross" in his pomp ...



"Jack" on a training day; fuse well alight ...




The Management picking up with her dog "Louis" ....



"Louis" bringing in a runner ..



And finally Spaniel "Georgie" with dandruff ... only it's ice! Chilly old day in deepest Taffland.



We cater for all tastes in here cool

Eug

Posted By: Last Dollar Re: STOP!....Please - 07/31/16 10:50 PM
GRAND! GRAND!
Posted By: keith Re: STOP!....Please - 08/01/16 01:55 AM
One of my favorites!

Shooting Liberals- Bloom County- [/quote]
Posted By: treblig1958 Re: STOP!....Please - 08/01/16 03:16 AM
Originally Posted By: eugene molloy
craigd asked
Quote:
Any chance of more pictures from Poland?


Sure ...



Much more of that and you'll go blind ... well OK risk one eye! Wonderful game soccer, don't you think? Pics taken at the recent Euros and findable with Google.

Anyone interested in a rolled shoulder of lamb, with apricot stuffing and spiced red cabbage?

Eug







That's why Poland doesn't win they're too distracted by their fans!!!!

Portugal really surprised everyone by winning the championship especially after their 'Golden' boy Ronaldo went out with an injury.


Posted By: eugene molloy Re: STOP!....Please - 08/01/16 07:54 AM
Keith,

See PM.

Eug
Posted By: trw999 Re: STOP!....Please - 08/01/16 10:05 AM
Eug, thanks for some great shots. I loved your springer in the frost!

Here's a nice gun to buy at auction: http://www.gavingardiner.com/BidCat/detail.asp?SaleRef=0028&LotRef=108

Tim
Posted By: nca225 Re: STOP!....Please - 08/01/16 01:13 PM
Well since, keith, Herr Oberst, craigd and the cabal et al, can seem to stop,...

It's a shame to see the cabal's republican candidate, willfully nominated by the Republican Party insult and attack the grieving mother of a fallen US soldier. To say the optics on this look bad, would an understatement.

https://gma.yahoo.com/ours-sacrifice-nev...topstories.html

I'm not sure how any active service member, veteran or families of service members could support Drumpf after this.
Posted By: Last Dollar Re: STOP!....Please - 08/01/16 01:16 PM
Sonsa bitches just cant quit....Sick bastards......
Posted By: Geo. Newbern Re: STOP!....Please - 08/01/16 03:26 PM
If the rethugs don't start supporting the candidate we chose for them a little better, I may just vote Trump for prez and straight democrat for the rest of the ballot.

Just thought I'd get that thought in before Dave locks this one down...Geo
Posted By: nca225 Re: STOP!....Please - 08/01/16 03:33 PM
Geo, does that presuppose, that currently, you are gong to vote for a candidate other then Drumpf, and then the rest of the R's down ballot? cool
Posted By: Geo. Newbern Re: STOP!....Please - 08/01/16 03:34 PM
Originally Posted By: nca225
Geo, does that presuppose, that currently, you are gong to vote for a candidate other then Drumpf, and then the rest of the R's down ballot? cool


Nope...Geo
Posted By: Wonko the Sane Re: STOP!....Please - 08/01/16 08:27 PM
I know of a couple specialized sites that forbid political discussions of any kind and have several ruthless moderators that remove things without any discussion of any kind. The sites have at least as many active participants as this one, no idea about lurkers.

Dave could do the same.

have another day
Dr.WtS
Posted By: keith Re: STOP!....Please - 08/01/16 08:57 PM
Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
Originally Posted By: keith
24 hours has passed, and all we get is more hogwash.



keith, I don't mind your politics as much as you might think but that bug you have crawling all over the screen drives me NUTS!...Geo


Geo, I put the bug there just for Ed Good. It keeps him busy licking the computer screen. Now you know why he has been so quiet.

Not at all surprising to see transgender coward Chris (nca225) all in a tizzy about Trump questioning the silence of a Muslim woman while he/she enthusiastically supports the anti-gunner Hillary Clinton, even though Hillary denied extra security to the dead soldiers and embassy staff in Benghazi... and then lied to their families about the motivations of the attackers who killed them. More proof that you can't fix stupid.

Maybe Liberals ought to be paying reparations to Japanese who were interred by Liberal Democrat Franklin Roosevelt during WWII.
Posted By: Bob Cash Re: STOP!....Please - 08/02/16 01:29 AM
Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern

...Just thought I'd get that thought in before Dave locks this one down...Geo

He hasn't shut this drivel down in the past 9 pages.
What makes you think he'll shut this crap down anytime soon?
Posted By: nca225 Re: STOP!....Please - 08/02/16 01:32 AM
And here is another story of the treasonous candidate's overt support for the Russian regime.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...f256_story.html

Does a vote for Drumpf equal material support?
Posted By: postoak Re: STOP!....Please - 08/02/16 03:12 AM
Dr. Wonko I am with you on this one. wink
Posted By: craigd Re: STOP!....Please - 08/02/16 04:25 AM
Originally Posted By: postoak
Dr. Wonko I am with you on this one. wink

You should reread it. Doc can do the full wonko, as long as it's not 'political'. I thought he was pretty shrewd. Besides, if you read his signature line you can tell he was kidding about 'iron fist for anything political'.

I can't climb in and feel what the moderator feels, but why do all the 'solutions' involve more time and effort from him?
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